June 28, 2022 • 26 mins
Today’s guests are producer Cris Graves and journalist Angenette Levy. Angenette has been a crime & courts reporter for 15 years and is currently a host and correspondent for Law & Crime Network. She can also be heard on our other podcast, The Piketon Massacre.
Newlyweds Josh and Amber had their whole lives ahead of them, but when their marriage started to crumble, it proved that falling too hard can have dangerous consequences.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
because the story starts out with once upon a Times
doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
(00:25):
Today's guests are true crime producer Chris Graves, joined by
Antonette Levy. Anjeanette is a journalist with fifteen years of
experience as a crime and court reporter. She is currently
a host and correspondent for the Law and Crime Network.
You can find her on Twitter at Angeanette five and
Instagram at an Genette. Episode thirty three, The Case of
(00:49):
the Football Player, the Firecracker, and the Long fall Down.
Twenty year old Josh Hilberly from Tulsa, Oklahoma was many things.
A MoMA's boy, a good friend, a loving big brother,
and a star football player for his high school team.
(01:10):
The oldest of two boys, Josh's father loved to describe
his firstborn son as having a smile that could light
up a room. On Halloween in two thousand and eight,
Josh went to a party and met seventeen year old
Amber Fields. Josh was smitten from the moment he laid
eyes on Amber. She was gorgeous and smart, outgoing with
(01:31):
a rebellious streak that Josh's more introverted personality was attracted
to a romantic at heart. Josh swept Amber off her
feet and they eventually began dating. Here's Chris. Josh was
born and raised in Tulsa, Oklahoma. According to his little
brother Zach, football was just everything in Josh's world. They're
(01:54):
in Oklahoma, which that's big football country and being a
high school football stars pretty big d in Oklahoma, so
Josh's talent on the field made him really popular in school.
He was six four pounds. Josh's father and his brother
loved watching Josh play football. According to them, he was
just phenomenal and lit up the field every Friday night
(02:16):
with his talent. Josh had just turned twenty a few
months before meeting Amber, who was seventeen when they met,
and just to note in Oklahoma age consider his sixteen.
So this was two consenting adults. So the connection they
both felt was pretty immediate and they began dating soon after.
Josh had a really romantic streak and he used it
(02:36):
to sweep Amber off her feet quite literally. Amber didn't
know how to dance, and so one night Josh drove
them to a basketball court at a park in his
neighborhood and he had Amber stand on his feet and
he taught her how to slow dance under the stars.
So in the spring of Josh decided to follow his
younger brother Zack into the Air Force, and Zach was
(02:56):
in the middle of serving a tour in Afghanistan in
the summer of Josh was then shipped off to Lackland
Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas for basic training,
which last got eight and a half weeks. Amber wrote
to him while he was at boot camp. She drove
eight hours to the Air Force base to see him
graduate from basic training. It was a big, big day
(03:18):
and after graduating, Josh got his orders. He was supposed
to report to Eilson Air Force Base in the North
Pole and North Pole, Alaska. This is pretty much in
the middle of nowhere. This is when this is all unfolding.
So Josh and Amber have a big, big decision to make.
The Air Force is not going to let Amber live
on base with Josh unless they were married. So that's
(03:40):
the big question. Do they tie the not? Both Josh
and Amber's parents felt like they were not a good
match for one another. Their personality seemed to clash, and
Amber's mother thought neither Amber nor Josh were ready for
the adult responsibilities that come with marriage. Despite both families
thinking the young couples twenty two and Amber eight team
(04:02):
were wrong for each other, they got married anyway in
a quick courthouse ceremony in August of The wedding may
have been a no frills affair, but the reception was
a fancy blowout at a local country club. Young in
love and now legal in the eyes of the Air Force,
Josh and Amber moved to Aileson Air Force Base in
October of So Josh and Amber moved to this relatively
(04:29):
small and remote military base. I mean, I'd never even
heard of it. When I was doing the research on
the story Internet, I haven't heard of it either, and
I thought I had heard of all of them. It
is super, super remote. I can't even imagine living in
a place like that. Think about how isolating that would be.
And and in Alaska, you know, isn't it dark for much?
You know, half of the year dark pretty much all
(04:50):
of the time, which I would think could affect your
your mood, your circadian rhythm, your health, And I just
can't even imagine. There's a lot of factors that that
this particular location would bring into someone's relationships. So the
base itself only has about two thousand one active duty
service personnel, and to compare that to some of the
(05:12):
other larger army bases, the largest one Fort brag that
has about five and fifty tho active duty personnel on base.
So this is like a town in the middle of nowhere,
and they're moving to the North Pole place that has
nine months with significant snow, with a yearly average of
fifty eight inches. The national average is twelve inches, and
(05:35):
it's considered one of the coldest places in Alaska. As
you mentioned, there's a lot of darkness because the sun
doesn't come out for a good part of the year,
and it has an average low night time temperature of
negative seventeen degrees in January, which is pretty cold. So
here you have two very young people who have rushed
into marriage and are living with each other for the
(05:56):
first time in this harsh cold environment. So you know, Jeanette,
Josh's dad thought that Josh was making a huge mistake
when he started dating Amber and eventually married her. They
were just so different and now they've compounded that all
of that with this really remote area. What were Amber's
parents thought, Well, Amber's mother also thought that Josh and
(06:17):
Amber were not a good match. She really thought they
were way too young, they were naive, and that they
looked at marriage not really in a realistic way. They
looked at it more as a fairy tale and not
really as this lifelong commitment that's going to take compromise
and sacrifice and really work relationships. You have to keep
them in a good spot, and they require a lot
(06:39):
of thoughtfulness and work to be successful. So once the
harsh realities of both marriage and Alaska start to sink in,
you know, Josh and Amber, they start getting into arguments.
They're fighting more and more, and both would call home
crying to talk to their parents. So it's about November
and winners approached and the days are getting darker. The
(07:03):
isolation is wearing on Josh and Amber, but they get
some good news. Amber is pregnant. Josh and Amber find
out they're having a baby boy, and they decided to
name him Levi and although having a baby on the
way should have been really happy. Josh and Amber, we're
finding that being away from their support systems, their friends
and family in Alaska was really sending them down this
(07:26):
this really dark path that they just weren't prepared for.
They weren't mature enough to handle it. Yeah, you have Alaska,
new marriage, an air Force space, that's a lot for
these young people. We're going to take a break. We'll
be back in just a moment. So we just learned
(07:57):
that in January it's negative seventeen degree and for all
we dark. And this is when all of this is
playing out for Josh and Amber. I mean, can you
imagine being in that situation? Absolutely not. It sounds like
hell to me. Winter affects me. I think it affects
a lot of people. But what this is like a
winter on steroids. This is a whole another level. Not
(08:20):
only that she you know, Amber is pregnant, which means
she's got all of these swings whatever, you know, hormones raging. Yeah,
and none of it's her fault. It's all her body
making another human being. That that's compounded by everything else.
Right by January of eleven, Josh Nimber's relationship was on
(08:41):
the rocks and teetering on disaster. Amber was still in
her first trimester pregnant with little Levi. She and Josh
would argue constantly, neither ever knowing what would set the
other off. On January second, Josh Namber had been fighting
because Amber wanted take out and Josh did not. Amber
(09:04):
started making dinner. Josh quote got in her face, knocked
a dinner plate and drink out of her hand, and
then grabbed her breasts. Josh squeeze so hard he broke
blood vessels and bruised Amber. It seemed like Josh has
been trying to pop her implants. Amber filed a police
report against Josh for domestic abuse. The reports stated that
(09:28):
officers took photos of the wounds and also took Josh
into custody to cool down for the night, but no
charges were filed. Just a few months later, the young
couple got hit with another blow. In May, even Josh's
discharge from the Air Force due to misconduct for drug use.
Josh had allegedly been using oxycotton. The troubled couple moved
(09:52):
back home to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and into a twenty fifth
floor apartment of the University Club Tower building. The University
Club Tower is pretty well known. It was built in
ninety six and was the first building in the United
States to be designed by using a computer. It has
an interesting design. In the first eight floors are the
(10:14):
parking structure for the residents, so and then it shoots
up into the sky with the rest of the building.
And Josh and Amber moved into the University Club Tower
the first week of May eleven, and pretty quick it
becomes apparent that Alaska and the isolation from friends and
family may not have been at the root of their problems,
so Josh and Amber pretty quickly Josh and Amber fell
(10:35):
back into their routine of arguing. Their fighting escalates and
on May twenty eleven, Josh is now the one filing
a protective order against Amber in Tulsa County District Court.
Josh alleges that Amber grabbed the floor lamp and threw
the lamp at him, heating him in the head and
wounding him. Josh reported that the paramedics had taken to
(10:55):
the hospital where he had received ten staples and eleven stitches.
That's pretty gash. However, nothing came of Josh's protective order
filing because neither Josh nor Amber showed up at the
court hearing on and the case was dismissed, which we
often see in cases of domestic abuse. You and I
have covered a lot of stories. Somebody reports and then
(11:17):
they don't show up to finish the report. That's kind
of common, unfortunately. You know, maybe there's a cooling off
period and they don't follow through. Yeah, I mean, what
other things do you think could have been going through
Josh's mind for not showing up. Look at our culture
and you know this whole idea that men are the big,
strong ones, right, and for a lot of men coming
(11:40):
to terms with the fact that they may be a victim,
that is very embarrassing. And you know, it's possible that
Josh felt a lot of shame over the abuse he
was suffering at the hands of Amber, and that could
have possibly played a part in him not showing up
for that hearing. And the CDC actually reports that one
in seven men will experience physical violence by their intimate
(12:03):
partner at some point in their lifetimes, and at least
three million acts of domestic violence will occur annually to men.
So men can definitely be victims of domestic violence. This
isn't uncommon, you know. I think it's almost like a
first Men are human too, and it doesn't matter your gender.
(12:24):
Anyone can be an abuser, and I think it's hard
for some people to wrap their heads around that, even
though I think we're learning more about that if you
if you really look at these issues and pay attention.
So men represent as much as fIF of all cases
of domestic partner violence, and male victims are also less
likely to seek out medical care, so that the incidences
(12:47):
of domestic violence on men may very well be under
reported because of that whole societal norms about viewing men
as the big, burly types and it's probably just you know,
embarrassing for them. So the National Domestic Violence Hotline has
reported that when they hear from male contacts that reach
out daily, that these men feel emasculated and like less
(13:10):
of a man when undergoing situations of abuse at the
hands of spouses or partners, and some have even reported
feeling so ashamed that they don't want to acknowledge the
abuse because they fear that if they do, it will
make the situation real. So at this point, neither Josh
nor Amber seem like angels when it comes to domestic violence.
(13:31):
But I think we need to remember that both of
them are really pretty much kids. She's nineteen and he's
still twenty two. So how does a young man who's
just twenty two years old process being domestically abused, especially
one who grew up in the hyper masculine world of football.
And did Josh even know there was help out there
for him? It just feels like both of their parents
(13:52):
worst nightmare was coming true. Just eight days after Josh's
twenty third birthday, at four pm on g In seventh,
two thousand eleven, a Tulsa nine one one operator received
a strange call. Someone had witnessed a man fall out
of the twenty five story window at the University Club
Tower building and watched him plummet seventeen floors to his death.
(14:16):
The body landed on the roof of the building's parking structure.
Take a listen to the nine one one call the
park department and I just saw someone jump out the
window out of the probably the seventh nineteenth Flooria University
Club Power Department at keventh Eaton, Denver. Let me keep
the neighbor of that place is University University Club, which
(14:38):
is them. Some were on the way, all right, I
could not smoking figure out here looking right at there.
I'm looking right at it, and he the glass broke
and he fell down. Well, the people, okay, I don't
want to three four or five, seven, eight, ninety eleven,
twelve four We all right, thank them. When first responders
(15:02):
arrived to the roof of the parking deck, they found
Amber distraught and crying next to Josh's broken and dead body.
Amber was led away by police officers who also arrived,
and Amber was begging everyone to quote fixed Josh. The
detectives and police officers who arrived on the scene at
first believe they were dealing with an accidental and tragic death.
(15:26):
So that's pretty shocking. It's awful. I can't even imagine
seeing something like that. So when law enforcement gets to
the University Club tower, they think they're just dealing with
a freak accident that somebody might have fallen out a window.
They asked Amber to come down to the station to
file a report. Amber's grandmother comes with her. At around
(15:47):
six pm, Amber and her grandmother are sitting alone in
a police interrogation room. Amber starts talking to her grandmother,
and the officer who brought them in to file the
report watches them on a closed circuit monitor, and he
decided to record the conversation. The officer didn't tell the
grandmother or Amber that they were being recorded. So Amber
(16:07):
is distraught and she starts telling her grandmother what happened,
and her grandmother instinctively tries to get Amber to stop
talking to no Avail. We can listen to a little
excerpt of what the officer recorded. Josh just dead, and
I'm here. I didn't just lose my husband. Genie and
(16:31):
Patrick lost their son. Sad lost his brother, his grandma's
poor Grandma's gonna have ar attack when she finds out
there her little Josh is gone. Well, I kept seeing
like I just held his broken body. I wonder if
(16:52):
his parents know yet. I'm sure if they did, they
were right. They kept saying, if we stay together, I'm
going to kill him. So did this happen? How did
(17:21):
this happen? Why did he have to follow the window,
fall out of window. I'm a horrible person who could
do that? Who could do that? Push my husband and
make him fall up the window? Did you intentionally know?
(17:45):
Of course, not that's what they're gonna take it. I
just keep watching him fall over and over and over,
getting my head watching him flail. I think that, you know,
my last thought was please catch yourself. You know. I
(18:09):
just want to know what was going through his head,
if he knew he was going to die, if he
said a prayer, or if he cursed my name, or
if he just I thought that he could catch himself too.
And then just watching him in the ground. That's crazy.
When that officer who was recording her that Amber says
(18:31):
she actually pushed Josh before he stumbled and fell through
the window. The case now goes from accidental to a
possible homicide investigation. Amber is arrested on a second degree
murder charge and taken into custody. Just hearing that is
so chilling. I mean, she's clearly broken up about it.
It's not like some of the other interrogation things where
(18:54):
we've heard like people singing or doing really weird things.
She does sound broken, but she did say she pushed him,
so we don't know the situation between them. When that happened.
Hours after Josh Hilberling fell to his death on June seven,
two eleven, investigators believe they have what amounts to a
confession to at the very least second degree murder from
(19:15):
his wife. When detectives searched Josh and Namber's apartment, they
found a clean and tidy place with no signs of
a possible physical fight. Nothing seemed out of place. Officers
also found a bag pack that belonged to Josh. Amber
story was that she and Josh had been fighting that
day because Josh was planning on going to a music
(19:37):
festival with his friends and he was going to sell
pills at the festival. She explained that this is why
the police found Josh's packed bag. Amber also told investigators
that Josh grabbed her by the shoulders so hard his
grip left marks and a scratch, and that she had
pushed him in self defense. She claimed that Josh had
(19:59):
stumbled back into of the window and the window had broken.
Before Amber knew it, Josh had fallen to his death.
But when detective stuck deeper into Josh Naber's relationship, they
found the protection order Josh had filed against Amber just
weeks before his death. Detectives felt the protection order pointed
to Amber being the abuser in their relationship. When investigators
(20:20):
spoke with Josh's family, his father told him that Josh
had called him on June seventh, just hours before his death,
to tell him he couldn't take the fighting and abuse anymore.
Josh's father said Josh had packed a bag and wanted
his father to come pick him up. His father was
at work and told him he couldn't come until later. So,
(20:42):
according to Josh's dad, earlier in the day on June seventh,
Josh called him to tell him that he couldn't take
the abuse from the fighting anymore, and he asked to
be picked up. Josh said told Josh he couldn't come
right away because he was at work, and that he'd
come after he was done, and that would be the
last time that Josh's father spoke to his son, and
(21:04):
that call really haunts his father to this day and
he regrets that he didn't come get Josh when he
first called. But according to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence,
the most dangerous time for victim of abuse is when
they finally decided to leave that abuser. And of course,
Amber claimed that Josh hadn't actually packed the bag to
(21:24):
leave her, but he had packed the bag because he
was planning to go to a music festival with some
friends where he planned to sell some pills, which is
part of what Josh had been doing apparently, and part
of what the strife was in their relationship now that
he was out of the Air Force and didn't have
a job, and that this was the whole reason that
they were fighting to begin with. They were fighting because
(21:44):
he was leaving to go hang out with his friends.
Let's stop here for another break. Yeah. The toxicology report
(22:07):
from Josh's autopsy came back clean. There were no drugs,
no alcohol in his system, which seems to poke a
hole in Amber's story. Investigators also spoke to one of
Josh and Amber's next door neighbors, and he tells them
that he heard Amber yell no, no, no, and then
charging footsteps before hearing the sound of glass breaking, and
(22:28):
then hearing Amber scream oh my god, Oh my god,
oh my god. On June eight, investigators bump up the
charges against Amber to first degree murder. Amber Hilberling was
released that afternoon on a two D fifty thou dollar bond,
that's according to jail records, and while Amber is awaiting trial,
(22:48):
she gives birth to Levi on August six. Amber has
offered two different plea deals that would have dropped her
sentence down to five years with fifteen years of role,
but Amber declines both of those authors. She maintains her
innocence and that what happened to Josh was simply a
horrible accident. I know. She also maintained that the push
(23:11):
was an accident, that they were in a fight, and
she didn't realize that those windows could break. You would
think on a floor of a building you would have
some pretty maybe shatterproof glass or something like that, but
in this case, obviously they didn't. And it's just absolutely horrible.
This was, I hate to say it, a story where
(23:32):
the parents might have been right, and maybe they should
have waited a little bit. Definitely, I think anybody that
young really needs to think twice before committing to a
relationship long term. To me, when I hear about people
having children so young, I mean, think about how your
brain matures, how you mentally and emotionally mature or not
(23:56):
when you're that young. And that's why when I see
people getting into these things at sex just such a
young age and and mistaking probably infatuation for actual love.
I really want to just walk up to them. Do
you know what you're doing? Do you know what you're thinking.
I'm not saying it can't work out for the best,
but I really think you got to think twice. Sometimes
(24:20):
we may never really know absolutely without a doubt, what
was going on it. You never know what goes on
behind closed doors. I truly believe that with relationships, even
if you think you know a couple really well, you
don't know what goes on. Amber's child began on March eleventh, thirteen,
(24:42):
and she took the stand on March sixte Amber testified
that she pushed Josh in self defense and that she
never intended to kill her husband. Amber further explained that
she could not have anticipated the window breaking on March eighteenth,
two eleven, just seven days after her trial began. Amber
(25:03):
is convicted of second degree murder. This does not require
under law that the prosecution prove intent to kill. The
jury only deliberated for three hours, and the judge upheld
the jury's recommendation of a twenty five year prison term.
In March of the Joshua Hilberling Estates sued the University
(25:26):
Club Tower about the thin windows. The suit was eventually
dismissed because it was filed after the time window to
file such cases had closed. Sadly, after a failed appeal,
Amber was found dead by hanging in her cell on
October and autopsy found cut scars on Amber's wrists and arms,
(25:49):
as well as meth anphetamine and her bloodstream at the
time of her death. Before her suicide, Amber told the
corrections officer quote she said, I have to live with
that I killed my husband, and I'm going to have
to tell my son someday that I killed his father. Thankfully,
Josh Nambrason is thriving with amper side of the family
(26:16):
Shameless Plug. If you're enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us
a review and listen to season three of our hit
series The Piked and Massacre. New episodes there every Wednesday
wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to follow
us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. Crazy in Love
is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Grieves and
(26:40):
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff ta.
Crazy in Love is a production of I Heart Radio
and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,
Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
because the story starts out with once upon a Times
doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
(00:25):
Today's guests are true crime producer Chris Graves, joined by
Antonette Levy. Anjeanette is a journalist with fifteen years of
experience as a crime and court reporter. She is currently
a host and correspondent for the Law and Crime Network.
You can find her on Twitter at Angeanette five and
Instagram at an Genette. Episode thirty three, The Case of
(00:49):
the Football Player, the Firecracker, and the Long fall Down.
Twenty year old Josh Hilberly from Tulsa, Oklahoma was many things.
A MoMA's boy, a good friend, a loving big brother,
and a star football player for his high school team.
(01:10):
The oldest of two boys, Josh's father loved to describe
his firstborn son as having a smile that could light
up a room. On Halloween in two thousand and eight,
Josh went to a party and met seventeen year old
Amber Fields. Josh was smitten from the moment he laid
eyes on Amber. She was gorgeous and smart, outgoing with
(01:31):
a rebellious streak that Josh's more introverted personality was attracted
to a romantic at heart. Josh swept Amber off her
feet and they eventually began dating. Here's Chris. Josh was
born and raised in Tulsa, Oklahoma. According to his little
brother Zach, football was just everything in Josh's world. They're
(01:54):
in Oklahoma, which that's big football country and being a
high school football stars pretty big d in Oklahoma, so
Josh's talent on the field made him really popular in school.
He was six four pounds. Josh's father and his brother
loved watching Josh play football. According to them, he was
just phenomenal and lit up the field every Friday night
(02:16):
with his talent. Josh had just turned twenty a few
months before meeting Amber, who was seventeen when they met,
and just to note in Oklahoma age consider his sixteen.
So this was two consenting adults. So the connection they
both felt was pretty immediate and they began dating soon after.
Josh had a really romantic streak and he used it
(02:36):
to sweep Amber off her feet quite literally. Amber didn't
know how to dance, and so one night Josh drove
them to a basketball court at a park in his
neighborhood and he had Amber stand on his feet and
he taught her how to slow dance under the stars.
So in the spring of Josh decided to follow his
younger brother Zack into the Air Force, and Zach was
(02:56):
in the middle of serving a tour in Afghanistan in
the summer of Josh was then shipped off to Lackland
Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas for basic training,
which last got eight and a half weeks. Amber wrote
to him while he was at boot camp. She drove
eight hours to the Air Force base to see him
graduate from basic training. It was a big, big day
(03:18):
and after graduating, Josh got his orders. He was supposed
to report to Eilson Air Force Base in the North
Pole and North Pole, Alaska. This is pretty much in
the middle of nowhere. This is when this is all unfolding.
So Josh and Amber have a big, big decision to make.
The Air Force is not going to let Amber live
on base with Josh unless they were married. So that's
(03:40):
the big question. Do they tie the not? Both Josh
and Amber's parents felt like they were not a good
match for one another. Their personality seemed to clash, and
Amber's mother thought neither Amber nor Josh were ready for
the adult responsibilities that come with marriage. Despite both families
thinking the young couples twenty two and Amber eight team
(04:02):
were wrong for each other, they got married anyway in
a quick courthouse ceremony in August of The wedding may
have been a no frills affair, but the reception was
a fancy blowout at a local country club. Young in
love and now legal in the eyes of the Air Force,
Josh and Amber moved to Aileson Air Force Base in
October of So Josh and Amber moved to this relatively
(04:29):
small and remote military base. I mean, I'd never even
heard of it. When I was doing the research on
the story Internet, I haven't heard of it either, and
I thought I had heard of all of them. It
is super, super remote. I can't even imagine living in
a place like that. Think about how isolating that would be.
And and in Alaska, you know, isn't it dark for much?
You know, half of the year dark pretty much all
(04:50):
of the time, which I would think could affect your
your mood, your circadian rhythm, your health, And I just
can't even imagine. There's a lot of factors that that
this particular location would bring into someone's relationships. So the
base itself only has about two thousand one active duty
service personnel, and to compare that to some of the
(05:12):
other larger army bases, the largest one Fort brag that
has about five and fifty tho active duty personnel on base.
So this is like a town in the middle of nowhere,
and they're moving to the North Pole place that has
nine months with significant snow, with a yearly average of
fifty eight inches. The national average is twelve inches, and
(05:35):
it's considered one of the coldest places in Alaska. As
you mentioned, there's a lot of darkness because the sun
doesn't come out for a good part of the year,
and it has an average low night time temperature of
negative seventeen degrees in January, which is pretty cold. So
here you have two very young people who have rushed
into marriage and are living with each other for the
(05:56):
first time in this harsh cold environment. So you know, Jeanette,
Josh's dad thought that Josh was making a huge mistake
when he started dating Amber and eventually married her. They
were just so different and now they've compounded that all
of that with this really remote area. What were Amber's
parents thought, Well, Amber's mother also thought that Josh and
(06:17):
Amber were not a good match. She really thought they
were way too young, they were naive, and that they
looked at marriage not really in a realistic way. They
looked at it more as a fairy tale and not
really as this lifelong commitment that's going to take compromise
and sacrifice and really work relationships. You have to keep
them in a good spot, and they require a lot
(06:39):
of thoughtfulness and work to be successful. So once the
harsh realities of both marriage and Alaska start to sink in,
you know, Josh and Amber, they start getting into arguments.
They're fighting more and more, and both would call home
crying to talk to their parents. So it's about November
and winners approached and the days are getting darker. The
(07:03):
isolation is wearing on Josh and Amber, but they get
some good news. Amber is pregnant. Josh and Amber find
out they're having a baby boy, and they decided to
name him Levi and although having a baby on the
way should have been really happy. Josh and Amber, we're
finding that being away from their support systems, their friends
and family in Alaska was really sending them down this
(07:26):
this really dark path that they just weren't prepared for.
They weren't mature enough to handle it. Yeah, you have Alaska,
new marriage, an air Force space, that's a lot for
these young people. We're going to take a break. We'll
be back in just a moment. So we just learned
(07:57):
that in January it's negative seventeen degree and for all
we dark. And this is when all of this is
playing out for Josh and Amber. I mean, can you
imagine being in that situation? Absolutely not. It sounds like
hell to me. Winter affects me. I think it affects
a lot of people. But what this is like a
winter on steroids. This is a whole another level. Not
(08:20):
only that she you know, Amber is pregnant, which means
she's got all of these swings whatever, you know, hormones raging. Yeah,
and none of it's her fault. It's all her body
making another human being. That that's compounded by everything else.
Right by January of eleven, Josh Nimber's relationship was on
(08:41):
the rocks and teetering on disaster. Amber was still in
her first trimester pregnant with little Levi. She and Josh
would argue constantly, neither ever knowing what would set the
other off. On January second, Josh Namber had been fighting
because Amber wanted take out and Josh did not. Amber
(09:04):
started making dinner. Josh quote got in her face, knocked
a dinner plate and drink out of her hand, and
then grabbed her breasts. Josh squeeze so hard he broke
blood vessels and bruised Amber. It seemed like Josh has
been trying to pop her implants. Amber filed a police
report against Josh for domestic abuse. The reports stated that
(09:28):
officers took photos of the wounds and also took Josh
into custody to cool down for the night, but no
charges were filed. Just a few months later, the young
couple got hit with another blow. In May, even Josh's
discharge from the Air Force due to misconduct for drug use.
Josh had allegedly been using oxycotton. The troubled couple moved
(09:52):
back home to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and into a twenty fifth
floor apartment of the University Club Tower building. The University
Club Tower is pretty well known. It was built in
ninety six and was the first building in the United
States to be designed by using a computer. It has
an interesting design. In the first eight floors are the
(10:14):
parking structure for the residents, so and then it shoots
up into the sky with the rest of the building.
And Josh and Amber moved into the University Club Tower
the first week of May eleven, and pretty quick it
becomes apparent that Alaska and the isolation from friends and
family may not have been at the root of their problems,
so Josh and Amber pretty quickly Josh and Amber fell
(10:35):
back into their routine of arguing. Their fighting escalates and
on May twenty eleven, Josh is now the one filing
a protective order against Amber in Tulsa County District Court.
Josh alleges that Amber grabbed the floor lamp and threw
the lamp at him, heating him in the head and
wounding him. Josh reported that the paramedics had taken to
(10:55):
the hospital where he had received ten staples and eleven stitches.
That's pretty gash. However, nothing came of Josh's protective order
filing because neither Josh nor Amber showed up at the
court hearing on and the case was dismissed, which we
often see in cases of domestic abuse. You and I
have covered a lot of stories. Somebody reports and then
(11:17):
they don't show up to finish the report. That's kind
of common, unfortunately. You know, maybe there's a cooling off
period and they don't follow through. Yeah, I mean, what
other things do you think could have been going through
Josh's mind for not showing up. Look at our culture
and you know this whole idea that men are the big,
strong ones, right, and for a lot of men coming
(11:40):
to terms with the fact that they may be a victim,
that is very embarrassing. And you know, it's possible that
Josh felt a lot of shame over the abuse he
was suffering at the hands of Amber, and that could
have possibly played a part in him not showing up
for that hearing. And the CDC actually reports that one
in seven men will experience physical violence by their intimate
(12:03):
partner at some point in their lifetimes, and at least
three million acts of domestic violence will occur annually to men.
So men can definitely be victims of domestic violence. This
isn't uncommon, you know. I think it's almost like a
first Men are human too, and it doesn't matter your gender.
(12:24):
Anyone can be an abuser, and I think it's hard
for some people to wrap their heads around that, even
though I think we're learning more about that if you
if you really look at these issues and pay attention.
So men represent as much as fIF of all cases
of domestic partner violence, and male victims are also less
likely to seek out medical care, so that the incidences
(12:47):
of domestic violence on men may very well be under
reported because of that whole societal norms about viewing men
as the big, burly types and it's probably just you know,
embarrassing for them. So the National Domestic Violence Hotline has
reported that when they hear from male contacts that reach
out daily, that these men feel emasculated and like less
(13:10):
of a man when undergoing situations of abuse at the
hands of spouses or partners, and some have even reported
feeling so ashamed that they don't want to acknowledge the
abuse because they fear that if they do, it will
make the situation real. So at this point, neither Josh
nor Amber seem like angels when it comes to domestic violence.
(13:31):
But I think we need to remember that both of
them are really pretty much kids. She's nineteen and he's
still twenty two. So how does a young man who's
just twenty two years old process being domestically abused, especially
one who grew up in the hyper masculine world of football.
And did Josh even know there was help out there
for him? It just feels like both of their parents
(13:52):
worst nightmare was coming true. Just eight days after Josh's
twenty third birthday, at four pm on g In seventh,
two thousand eleven, a Tulsa nine one one operator received
a strange call. Someone had witnessed a man fall out
of the twenty five story window at the University Club
Tower building and watched him plummet seventeen floors to his death.
(14:16):
The body landed on the roof of the building's parking structure.
Take a listen to the nine one one call the
park department and I just saw someone jump out the
window out of the probably the seventh nineteenth Flooria University
Club Power Department at keventh Eaton, Denver. Let me keep
the neighbor of that place is University University Club, which
(14:38):
is them. Some were on the way, all right, I
could not smoking figure out here looking right at there.
I'm looking right at it, and he the glass broke
and he fell down. Well, the people, okay, I don't
want to three four or five, seven, eight, ninety eleven,
twelve four We all right, thank them. When first responders
(15:02):
arrived to the roof of the parking deck, they found
Amber distraught and crying next to Josh's broken and dead body.
Amber was led away by police officers who also arrived,
and Amber was begging everyone to quote fixed Josh. The
detectives and police officers who arrived on the scene at
first believe they were dealing with an accidental and tragic death.
(15:26):
So that's pretty shocking. It's awful. I can't even imagine
seeing something like that. So when law enforcement gets to
the University Club tower, they think they're just dealing with
a freak accident that somebody might have fallen out a window.
They asked Amber to come down to the station to
file a report. Amber's grandmother comes with her. At around
(15:47):
six pm, Amber and her grandmother are sitting alone in
a police interrogation room. Amber starts talking to her grandmother,
and the officer who brought them in to file the
report watches them on a closed circuit monitor, and he
decided to record the conversation. The officer didn't tell the
grandmother or Amber that they were being recorded. So Amber
(16:07):
is distraught and she starts telling her grandmother what happened,
and her grandmother instinctively tries to get Amber to stop
talking to no Avail. We can listen to a little
excerpt of what the officer recorded. Josh just dead, and
I'm here. I didn't just lose my husband. Genie and
(16:31):
Patrick lost their son. Sad lost his brother, his grandma's
poor Grandma's gonna have ar attack when she finds out
there her little Josh is gone. Well, I kept seeing
like I just held his broken body. I wonder if
(16:52):
his parents know yet. I'm sure if they did, they
were right. They kept saying, if we stay together, I'm
going to kill him. So did this happen? How did
(17:21):
this happen? Why did he have to follow the window,
fall out of window. I'm a horrible person who could
do that? Who could do that? Push my husband and
make him fall up the window? Did you intentionally know?
(17:45):
Of course, not that's what they're gonna take it. I
just keep watching him fall over and over and over,
getting my head watching him flail. I think that, you know,
my last thought was please catch yourself. You know. I
(18:09):
just want to know what was going through his head,
if he knew he was going to die, if he
said a prayer, or if he cursed my name, or
if he just I thought that he could catch himself too.
And then just watching him in the ground. That's crazy.
When that officer who was recording her that Amber says
(18:31):
she actually pushed Josh before he stumbled and fell through
the window. The case now goes from accidental to a
possible homicide investigation. Amber is arrested on a second degree
murder charge and taken into custody. Just hearing that is
so chilling. I mean, she's clearly broken up about it.
It's not like some of the other interrogation things where
(18:54):
we've heard like people singing or doing really weird things.
She does sound broken, but she did say she pushed him,
so we don't know the situation between them. When that happened.
Hours after Josh Hilberling fell to his death on June seven,
two eleven, investigators believe they have what amounts to a
confession to at the very least second degree murder from
(19:15):
his wife. When detectives searched Josh and Namber's apartment, they
found a clean and tidy place with no signs of
a possible physical fight. Nothing seemed out of place. Officers
also found a bag pack that belonged to Josh. Amber
story was that she and Josh had been fighting that
day because Josh was planning on going to a music
(19:37):
festival with his friends and he was going to sell
pills at the festival. She explained that this is why
the police found Josh's packed bag. Amber also told investigators
that Josh grabbed her by the shoulders so hard his
grip left marks and a scratch, and that she had
pushed him in self defense. She claimed that Josh had
(19:59):
stumbled back into of the window and the window had broken.
Before Amber knew it, Josh had fallen to his death.
But when detective stuck deeper into Josh Naber's relationship, they
found the protection order Josh had filed against Amber just
weeks before his death. Detectives felt the protection order pointed
to Amber being the abuser in their relationship. When investigators
(20:20):
spoke with Josh's family, his father told him that Josh
had called him on June seventh, just hours before his death,
to tell him he couldn't take the fighting and abuse anymore.
Josh's father said Josh had packed a bag and wanted
his father to come pick him up. His father was
at work and told him he couldn't come until later. So,
(20:42):
according to Josh's dad, earlier in the day on June seventh,
Josh called him to tell him that he couldn't take
the abuse from the fighting anymore, and he asked to
be picked up. Josh said told Josh he couldn't come
right away because he was at work, and that he'd
come after he was done, and that would be the
last time that Josh's father spoke to his son, and
(21:04):
that call really haunts his father to this day and
he regrets that he didn't come get Josh when he
first called. But according to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence,
the most dangerous time for victim of abuse is when
they finally decided to leave that abuser. And of course,
Amber claimed that Josh hadn't actually packed the bag to
(21:24):
leave her, but he had packed the bag because he
was planning to go to a music festival with some
friends where he planned to sell some pills, which is
part of what Josh had been doing apparently, and part
of what the strife was in their relationship now that
he was out of the Air Force and didn't have
a job, and that this was the whole reason that
they were fighting to begin with. They were fighting because
(21:44):
he was leaving to go hang out with his friends.
Let's stop here for another break. Yeah. The toxicology report
(22:07):
from Josh's autopsy came back clean. There were no drugs,
no alcohol in his system, which seems to poke a
hole in Amber's story. Investigators also spoke to one of
Josh and Amber's next door neighbors, and he tells them
that he heard Amber yell no, no, no, and then
charging footsteps before hearing the sound of glass breaking, and
(22:28):
then hearing Amber scream oh my god, Oh my god,
oh my god. On June eight, investigators bump up the
charges against Amber to first degree murder. Amber Hilberling was
released that afternoon on a two D fifty thou dollar bond,
that's according to jail records, and while Amber is awaiting trial,
(22:48):
she gives birth to Levi on August six. Amber has
offered two different plea deals that would have dropped her
sentence down to five years with fifteen years of role,
but Amber declines both of those authors. She maintains her
innocence and that what happened to Josh was simply a
horrible accident. I know. She also maintained that the push
(23:11):
was an accident, that they were in a fight, and
she didn't realize that those windows could break. You would
think on a floor of a building you would have
some pretty maybe shatterproof glass or something like that, but
in this case, obviously they didn't. And it's just absolutely horrible.
This was, I hate to say it, a story where
(23:32):
the parents might have been right, and maybe they should
have waited a little bit. Definitely, I think anybody that
young really needs to think twice before committing to a
relationship long term. To me, when I hear about people
having children so young, I mean, think about how your
brain matures, how you mentally and emotionally mature or not
(23:56):
when you're that young. And that's why when I see
people getting into these things at sex just such a
young age and and mistaking probably infatuation for actual love.
I really want to just walk up to them. Do
you know what you're doing? Do you know what you're thinking.
I'm not saying it can't work out for the best,
but I really think you got to think twice. Sometimes
(24:20):
we may never really know absolutely without a doubt, what
was going on it. You never know what goes on
behind closed doors. I truly believe that with relationships, even
if you think you know a couple really well, you
don't know what goes on. Amber's child began on March eleventh, thirteen,
(24:42):
and she took the stand on March sixte Amber testified
that she pushed Josh in self defense and that she
never intended to kill her husband. Amber further explained that
she could not have anticipated the window breaking on March eighteenth,
two eleven, just seven days after her trial began. Amber
(25:03):
is convicted of second degree murder. This does not require
under law that the prosecution prove intent to kill. The
jury only deliberated for three hours, and the judge upheld
the jury's recommendation of a twenty five year prison term.
In March of the Joshua Hilberling Estates sued the University
(25:26):
Club Tower about the thin windows. The suit was eventually
dismissed because it was filed after the time window to
file such cases had closed. Sadly, after a failed appeal,
Amber was found dead by hanging in her cell on
October and autopsy found cut scars on Amber's wrists and arms,
(25:49):
as well as meth anphetamine and her bloodstream at the
time of her death. Before her suicide, Amber told the
corrections officer quote she said, I have to live with
that I killed my husband, and I'm going to have
to tell my son someday that I killed his father. Thankfully,
Josh Nambrason is thriving with amper side of the family
(26:16):
Shameless Plug. If you're enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us
a review and listen to season three of our hit
series The Piked and Massacre. New episodes there every Wednesday
wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to follow
us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. Crazy in Love
is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Grieves and
(26:40):
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff ta.
Crazy in Love is a production of I Heart Radio
and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,
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