April 26, 2022 • 32 mins
Joining us from the podcast Queen of the Con are host Jonathan Walton and Executive Producer, Aliza Rosen. Queen of the Con can be found wherever you get your podcasts and on Instagram @Queenofthecon. In conversation with Jonathan and Aliza is true-crime producer Stephanie Lydecker.
Newly married couple Jordan and Cody thought they had their whole lives ahead of them, but just eight days after tying the knot tragedy would strike, leaving everyone in the small town talking. This case truly puts the saying “till death do us part” to the ultimate test.
To connect with Jonathan & Aliza, check out Queen of the Con on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queenofthecon
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
because the story starts out with once upon a Times
doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
(00:20):
and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Today's guests are true crime producer Stephanie lie Decker, Queen
of the Con, executive producer Eliza Rosen, and host of
Queen of the Con Jonathan Walton. Queen of the Con
can be found wherever you get your podcasts and on
Instagram at Queen of the Con. There you'll find updates, visuals,
(00:44):
and teases for the upcoming second season episode two, The
Case of the Newlyweds, The Email, and the Husband Who
Fell Too Hard. Alas Bell, Montana is a country town
known as the gateway to the Majestic Glacier National Park
(01:05):
in the heart of the Rocky Mountains. With the population
of just twenty people, the community is tight. It's the
kind of place where you can ask your neighbor to
watch your kid or what are your plants. At twenty two,
Jordan Graham made a nice life for herself. She worked
as a babysitter and volunteered at the local animal shelter.
(01:25):
But something was missing. Jordan yearned for a romantic connection
with someone who understood her. She went on plenty of
dates with guys, but no one seemed right. That all
changed one Sunday after church, when Jordan and her friends
were at a taco bell. It was there that she
first saw Cody Johnson. Soon after, at a Halloween party,
(01:47):
they were formally introduced. Four years her senior, Cody was
mature and smart. He was also fun and loved a
good time. While he attended church, he also enjoyed watching
Nascar and drinking beer, but perhaps his biggest passion was
fixing and driving cars. Anyone who knew Cody knew he
(02:11):
had a need for speed. Despite their differences, friends thought
Cody and Jordan balanced each other out. They both loved
children and couldn't wait to be parents, and Cody was
quickly smitten with Jordan's He often told friends that she
was the one. On June, the couple tied the knot.
(02:34):
After the ceremony, Jordan and Cody took to the dance
floor to dance to a customized wedding song that Jordan
had written herself. She hired a local singer to perform
it for her new husband. Some of the lyrics quote
you helped me to climb higher for a better view,
(02:54):
You're my safe place to fall, you never let me go.
Here's Stephanie. So by all accounts, this couple seemed very
excited to get married. They were happy and in love,
and as with all of our stories, it starts really nicely.
(03:15):
In December, Jordan's posted a picture of her beautiful new
diamond ring, saying he proposed and that was it. It
was the best Christmas present ever. They also seemed like
they sort of made each other better people again. According
to friends, Jordan got Cody to go to church, and
Cody helped break her out of her shell. Yeah, and
(03:37):
while they're close, friends and family understand a connection. People
in cows Spell were shocked. Cody was known as this
outgoing and fun guy, and Jordan's was enigmatic at best.
She was shy, she was standoffish, and she often answered
questions with simple, one worded answers, which you know, sil
(04:00):
rivers run deep, and that's always a red flag for me.
I don't like I avoid people like Jordan's. But you know, what,
did Cody seen her? Everyone wondered, and I wonder too.
But again, when two people are alone, you don't know
what's happened, and maybe they had a great something, and
sometimes opposites attract, right, most times opposites attract. I think
(04:21):
I see a striking similarity right off the bat with
this woman to the con artist who scammed me out
of close to a hundred thousand dollars by pretending she
was an Irish heiress for four years. And we did
a podcast about it called Queen of the Con wherever
you get your podcasts. Um. They both presented themselves my
con artists and Jordan's certainly as you know, not who
they were. I mean, in the final analysis, it doesn't
(04:44):
seem like Jordan really was excited to marry him, and
yet she was kind of pretending that she was, and
she did. And look, that's kind of what we always
seem to circle the wagon about, right. It's sort of
looking at the very early days of a relationship, when
the romance is still there, in the dopamine is still
pumping through their veins. Everything seems so heavenly, and you know,
(05:06):
is there anything on its nose that we can point
to to say trouble in paradise, but seemingly not. I disagree.
I think the quietness is a red flag I think,
and again not to indict all quiet, shy people, but
it seemed like a systemic thing like she did this
with everyone. She was shy and one word answers and
didn't want to elaborate much on things, and that makes
(05:28):
me uneasy, especially now after having been the victim or
con artists. I don't like that kind of thing, Eliza,
anything worth noting for you, Yeah, I don't think that
being quiet is necessarily means anything. I think that, you know,
there's plenty of crazy people or psychopaths who are gregarious,
and plenty who are quiet. I don't. I don't necessarily
think that's a red flag. But I think what it
(05:49):
means is that we don't know who she is because
she is really enigmatic too, even her closest friends. It
seems well. The beautiful ceremony would make it seem like
the young couple had a bright feature ahead of them.
Those who knew the pair began to see cracks. Cody's
friends jokingly started bets as to how long it would
(06:11):
take for the couple to divorce. It seemed, though, that
the problems may have been one sided. While Cody was
head over heels with Jordan's, she was distant. No one
ever saw the couple flirt, hold hands, or kiss. It
also turned out that prior to the wedding, Jordan had
gotten a serious case of cold feet. She confided in
(06:34):
her best friend and made of honor that she wasn't
sure she wanted to get married. Her friend told her
that she needed to talk to Cody, advice, Jordan never took.
Things only got worse after the wedding. Here's Eliza. So
the day after these two get married, Jordan's sends a
(06:55):
string of text messages to her friend that definitely fires
some alarms. So one of them reads, totally just had
a meltdown on completely second guessing everything. I don't know
if all of this was the right thing to do.
So much happened last night, I just don't know. And
then she sent another text that said, I'm just having
second thoughts and I'm really nervous about the whole sex thing.
(07:18):
I don't think I can do it. And then after
those texts, the next day, the texting went on. She
continued to text her friend. She said, I cannot freaking
pull myself together. I haven't stopped crying since I was married.
I wish someone would have stood up and asked me
what I wanted, but I can't go back and change anything.
I should be happy, and I'm just not. I don't
(07:40):
feel like myself. It's just so freaking hard. I want
my happy self back, but I'm a loser who can't
open my mouth and say how I feel. So to me,
there's like two ways that you can read those texts, right.
You can either read them as a genuinely miserable person
who made a massive mistake and was telling her best
friend about it, or if she's more calcul related and premeditated.
(08:01):
This definitely sends bread crumbs at a perfect paper trail
to have people look back and go, well, look, she
was so unhappy and who knows what was really going
on in that marriage, So she pretty much accomplished both ways,
but you know, we still don't know why, and if
she is in fact calculated, it's kind of the perfect
plan because it's very common for brides to have mixed
(08:23):
feelings after the wedding because they have a come down
for either from planning or the pregame shitters. We hear
stories like that all the time, so it's easy to
explain that away. So for her, it's the perfect alibi
to be she is really setting the stage if in
fact that's the case, right, And yeah, she's setting the
stage that she's not happy and unhappy people fight, and
(08:48):
you know that's the next important component in her story
if she wants to be believed, is that they were fighting.
And yeah, like a Lisa said, this is the perfect
groundwork for that. So if you think back to the wedding,
I guess at the wedding said the whole wedding night
was really strange and awkward. So Jordan was crying as
she walked down the aisle, but not like you know
(09:08):
how you see bride's cry and their happy tears. You
could just tell her overwhelmed with just a beautiful emotion.
Her tears were not good tears. She wouldn't even make
eye contact with Cody, and she seemed miserable, which is
a big deal. Yeah, that's a huge tell. I would
imagine the sobbing and crying. I think she knew then
and there what she had to do. What she planned
(09:28):
to do, and she didn't want to do it. So
that's her emotion kind of taking over, like, that's my feeling.
I don't like this woman at all, and now no
one does. But at the time that is a huge
red flag. She shouldn't be so upset on her wedding day.
But while the wedding was bad, friends were surprised they
ever even got that far. Prior to the wedding, she
had told friends she wasn't attracted to Cody and was
(09:53):
more interested in planning a wedding than actually being married,
which I think happens to a lot of women. It's
more exciting to plan the wedding and get the dress
and pick the food and do a cake tasting. That's
always been my dream, going for cake tasting. But you know, Stephanie,
what's your take. I think that you're exactly right. Oftentimes,
(10:13):
the spectacle of the event, can you know, delay problems
if there are any, And maybe that could be why
she was crying so so deeply, is that maybe she
realized she was caught up in the wedding, not the marriage.
And you know, we have heard now all of these
reports regarding her her desire not to have sex with
her husband, so she saved herself for marriage. And PR
(10:36):
reported that ten percent of Americans saved themselves for marriage,
so that's not particularly uncommon. But maybe that was coming
to a head. If she really was unable to have
sex with her husband because it was for religious purposes
and religious reasons. Now she's married and she still doesn't
want to have sex with him. That's a big hole
(10:57):
in her story, right if it was for religious reasons.
Now they're married. So that's a good point you bring up.
It doesn't hold water her. You know, I'm waiting to
my wedding night. Well, obviously she wasn't waiting till her
wedding night. That is very true, and she confessed that
to her maid of honor, who was also her best friend,
that even until way after their wedding, they were just
not having sex and just the idea of it made
(11:18):
her want to freak out. The couple's problems came to
a glaring halt when, just nine days after the wedding,
Cody failed to show up for work. It was out
of character for the young man to miss work and
blow off his responsibilities, so his supervisor and friend texted
Jordan later that afternoon, asking if Cody was okay, Jordan
(11:39):
told him that just last night, Cody left mysteriously with
some of his quote car buddies. She did not know
who they were or where they were taking her husband.
The couple's friends were confused over what happened to Cody.
While Jordan told some friends they hadn't been fighting, she
told others that before he left, they had and fact
(12:00):
gotten into a fight, and the fight was so bad
Cody had scratched her. One of the biggest red flags
of that looking back, is she didn't seem concerned that
her husband was missing. You know, I have a husband.
If he was missing, I would be beside myself with
grief and worry and crying and shouting and anger, and
(12:23):
I would be feeling everything. But for her to be
so regular and vacant even and not really emotionally responding
to the fact that her husband's missing. So with Cody gone,
Jordan was eating ice cream, literally skipping. The happiest her
friends had ever seen her. She wasn't even the one
to call the cops. Cody's boss called the cops because
(12:45):
he suspected foul play, which always has resonated with me
and just to play devil's advocate to that, though, is
it possible that maybe Jordan was in shock? Sometimes, you know,
people who are experiencing some high level of trauma do
things that are on a explainable We've seen that in
the Jodi Arias case. We've seen that multiple times. Is
there possibly something to that that she was just in
(13:07):
a phase. I don't know. Eating ice cream in shock.
I've seen people in shock and you're like catatonic and
can't do anything. Like when my buddy who was in
the podcast Queen of the Cons that I did about
how I got caught, he found out his wife is
cheating on him. He was in shock, he was catatonic.
I remember that because I've never seen anything like it.
Eating ice cream and skipping. No, that's not someone in shock,
(13:31):
that's someone covering. I completely agree. That's a very random
way of responding when your spouse, by the way, your
new spouse, you're still newlyweds just a few days in
at this point. Also, one other quick little side note
to that. The day before disappearing, Cody told friends that
Jordan had this real big surprise for him, something that
(13:52):
was very sexy and romantic. Obviously that was becoming probably
a hot topic in their relationship. So that was a
big deal, and they seemed, you know, the friends all
thought well because of that, you know, things must have
been getting better because they were taking this time to
be together. We're going to take a break. We'll be
back in just a moment. There were so many consistencies
(14:28):
in her story about whether they fought did they not
fight before he left, and police confronted her with those inconsistencies. First,
she tells police that Cody left when she was picking
up a phone charger at the home where she was
babysitting earlier that day. However, that story did not match
up at all to what police had heard earlier from her,
(14:50):
which is what she had told Cody's bosses about the
car buddies. So she had told his boss that some
guys came to pick him up and just took him away,
and she didn't know where he went or who he
went with. And so then the detective who interviewed her,
when he was videotaping their interview, he said, I've been
doing this for a long time and I can pick
(15:12):
up things about people. I feel like you're not being
honest with me. So how does Jordan react. She stares
blankly at him, and she just shrugs her shoulders. So
you have to ask, is this indifference or disassociation or
she knows she's been caught and she just is trying
(15:33):
to figure out what to say or do. It's hard
to know. Also, not that dissimilar to you know, your
story as well. Yeah, I mean my con artist, Mayor Smith.
You know, she was much more brilliant a con than
Jordan's is turning out to be. But I think her
default was blank stare. When they're caught, it's a blank stare.
(15:56):
That was Mayor to a tie. Blank stare Mayor. That's
what called her in high school, kidding, that's what they
should have called her. That is a very telling attribute.
A blank face in the face of a murder, in
the face of your husband's dad. We're searching for a body,
you know, blank face like very telling plotting, you know,
real time interesting. Without any solid evidence, Jordan was sent home,
(16:20):
but the next day the case would blow wide open.
Jordan received an email from an account she'd never heard of,
Carman Tony six oh seven at gmail dot com. The
email read, my name is Tony there is no bother
looking for Cody anymore. He is gone. I saw your
(16:44):
post on Twitter and thought I would email you. He
had come with somebody's and met up with me on
Sunday night in Columbia Falls. He was saying he needed
to be with his buddies for a bit and take
them for a joy ride. Three of the guys came
back saying they had gone for a ride in the
wood somewhere and Cody got out of the car went
(17:05):
for a little hike and they are positive he fell
and he is dead. Jordan's I don't know who the
guys were, but they took off, so call off the
missing person's report. Cody is gone for sure. This email
is signed Tony s. Here's Jonathan. This is just freaking insane.
(17:29):
It's just so preposterous. I know your husband's dad stopped
looking for him. Good luck. Like, who send an email
like that. It's so clearly your faith. This email, on
its face is laughable, And the fact that this is
what she chose to do to put this whole thing
to rest is pretty indicative that this woman had I mean,
(17:50):
is kind of a dummy. Sorry, you know we are
left here. Friends are panicked but Jordan's completely calm, with
you know, no emotion at all, which is a dead
giveaway in my book, she had to be convinced to
go to the cops, Like, you know her husband's missing,
you should go to the cops in the first few
hours you know he's missing. That's just insane. And Jordan
(18:11):
told police that she didn't know anyone named Tony and
that the email probably meant that they could all call
off their search, which is just a certain level delusional,
like police are gonna stop an investigation because someone emailed
them from a Gmail account. It's just so nonsensical. But
I think it speaks to her desperation and like Alisa said,
(18:32):
her lack of criminal sophistication. She's not a pro. Later
that day, Jordan wanted to organize another search for Cody.
This time, she suggested they visited Kalispell National Park, a
place Cody often like to visit. The park is known
for its beautiful vista's waterfalls and staggering cliff sides. Despite
(18:57):
the sun setting, Jordan was adamant they needed to search immediately,
so friends and family drove her the minutes to the park.
Once they arrived, Jordan got out of the car and
wandered the parking lot before telling people she wanted to
climb to a particular section on the trail. At this point,
the sun had fully set, so her brother said it
(19:18):
was too dark and dangerous. Jordan begrudgingly went home. The
next day, Jordan returned to the park, and this time
she acted swiftly, leading her friends down the same distinct path.
At one point, Jordan climbed over a guardrail to a
particularly perilous part of the mountain. Despite her friend's confusion
(19:40):
over why Cody would have ended up in this location
or how Jordan seemed to know it, they followed her.
Sure enough, they made a shocking discovery. At the bottom
of the two foot ravine was Cody's body. Here's Eliza,
I mean, how would she know where his body was?
(20:01):
That just does not make any sense. This is a
huge location too, so yes, there were many ways to
walk or to go. She told friends that she had
a quote feeling about it, and you know something Also
to note, friends were saying that while everybody was crying
and you know, for right, for all the right reasons,
(20:24):
sobbing over the fact that they just discovered Codey's body,
she seemed rather nonchalant about it, and you know, just
sort of walked away. She also just told friends that well,
now that they have a body, they could stop looking
for Cody, and now police could you know, leave her
alone and she can get on with her life just
like that. So case closed, just like any grieving wife wants.
(20:48):
So the autopsy comes back and it's found that Cody
had broken both of his arms, he had severe head trauma,
and that pointed to the idea that he had most
likely fallen head first, so which also implied that he
was pushed or fell rather than jumping. So police also
(21:10):
find a black cloth near Cody's body, which they assume
was the blindfold because they had heard this story that
she had told people that she was going to surprise
him and blindfolded him for this grand surprise that she
was telling people at Hurt she was going to give
him that night. So how did Jordan's react to all
of this the same way she always did? Very oddly,
(21:34):
you know, it was reported that she was always very
quiet and shy. As we discussed. However, during the funeral,
which is you know, frankly kind of appalling, she was
seeing texting on her phone again showing either a complete
lack of empathy or maybe that's a sign that there's
shock involved. But it was at this point that her
(21:56):
best friend, who was also her maid of honor, had
to really take a good look at her and come
to the realization that it's possible her her best friend,
murdered her husband. Yeah, I mean, you know, best hiding
places in plain sight. I think that's what became clear
to everyone too a little too late. You know, if
(22:16):
only they could have intervened earlier, like, you know, get
away from this woman. She's crazy. But you know, no
one assumed she would do what she did. How could you.
She was telling the sex story to everybody in their
brother including her own father, or there was no boundaries
on the story. Some things we kind of keep private,
and you know, she did disclose many texts in kind
(22:37):
of laying the groundwork for this to happen. Well, she
also never went into detail about what the surprise was,
so there was really no story there, Like you're going
to surprise someone by bringing them up to the top
of the mountain and blindfolding them, What are you showing them?
What are you giving them? She really had no good
backup story. To even explain the blindfold or how he
(23:01):
fell off that cliff. You bring up a very good point,
because that is what one would assume, right that there
was maybe a terrible accident that happens, that's where it
would happen, that has happened before, that wouldn't be completely outlandish,
and then would justify some of her emotion in the
following days, etcetera. But no, she again went ahead and
wasted everybody's time, wasted resources, you know, tormented his family.
(23:27):
Really had no shame in her game in terms of
just throwing him under the bus, even in his name.
Oh he's out partying or drinking or this, that and
another thing. Yeah, it's hard to imagine that level of callousness.
You know, she's a murderer. And I don't think she
was a happy murderer. I don't think she was a
little girl dreaming one day I'll wake up and be
(23:48):
a murderer. I just think she saw an opportunity, she
saw means to an ends, and she, you know, reluctantly,
it would seem took it, but she did it and
tried to cover it up. And yeah, I think she's
a murderer. As Cody Johnson was being buried. The police
were working hard to find his killer. They started by
(24:09):
tracing the cryptic email from Tony. It turned out the
server in which the email was sent was located at
Jordan's stepfather's house. Additionally, the police now had cell phone
records which showed Jody and Cody had both been at
the park the day he disappeared. Finally, they tracked down
surveillance from the National Park. The video showed Jordan and
(24:33):
Cody driving in, but only Jordan driving out. It was
enough to get a warrant for the new bride's arrest.
Take a listen to some of her interview with police.
Have waited a little bit longer and got married. I
wasn't scaring night. He said I could choose hold on it.
(24:54):
He said I could put it on, take a step,
but I wouldn't even fall. But I kept go into
my headset as you are going to follow um. And
then we were arguing some more things. To grab my
arm from my jacket, and I said, no, I'm going
to defend myself. Okay, I want to go, and I
pushed and went over. And I believe in that interview
she's not admitting that she killed him. She's admitting, you know,
(25:17):
it's an accident. Yeah, because because at one point she
even forcefully pushes back and says something to the effect of,
I absolutely did not intend for this to happen. That
wasn't my intention. We got into a fight and I
pushed and he fell. Um, which you got into a
fight and he's wearing a blindfold and you're on a cliff.
(25:37):
Let's stop here for another break. At first, Jordan acts
like she always did. She's cold, and she's distant, and
she tells the police the same story about the car
(26:00):
our buddies, how they came to the house and picked
him up, you know where he was going. But then
police present her with a mountain of evidence against her,
so she starts breaking down and crying. Finally some emotion
too little, too late, Jordan's yeah, because she's caught now,
you know. Now she knows they know that. She knows
(26:20):
that they know that she knows that they know that
she knows. Figure that one out. So Jordan's story continues
to evolve during the interrogation. She first tells police that
Cody bet her that he could walk the trail blindfolded. Um,
which is just really that that's a weird bet. You
(26:40):
put on the blindfold of her surprise, and he's betting, oh,
that I could walk it blindfolded. Okay. Then she says,
because of that bet, that caused an argument, that caused
a fight, and then he scratched her in the fight,
and she got you know, after receiving the shock of
the scratch, she pushed him and he felt. However, she
(27:01):
eventually revealed the truth that she blindfolded him herself, led
him to the edge and pushed him from behind, which
her explanation was, you know, they were fighting and she
reacted and pushed. She didn't know he would fall. She
didn't intend to push him off a cliff, is what
she said. And I guess nobody was buying it. Five
(27:25):
months later, the brunette widow sat in court pleading not
guilty to murder. However, four days into the trial, Jordan
shocked the court when she changed her plea to guilty,
accepting a charge of second degree murder. The plea deal
meant she would avoid potentially being convicted of first degree murder,
which had a much harsher sentence. On March, Jordan was
(27:48):
sentenced to thirty years in prison. The thing that sticks
out to me in all of the news coverage that
I read about this case, when when the trial started,
everyone reported Jordan's sitting in court expressionless, expressionless as the
you know, Cody's Mother's understand tearfully recounting, you know, hearing
(28:12):
that her son had died and would like any normally
human being would have been crying, anyone who was not
the murderer would have been crying. But she sat there expressionless.
So that's a very big giveaway. Um, the jury is watching,
you know, the jury is watching how you react to
people saying these horrible, emotional, tragic things. And if you're
(28:32):
just have a blank stare, that just makes you look
guilty as hell. So yeah, she you know, she started
the trial saying she wasn't guilty. After a bunch of
testimony for my thirty or forty people, she changed her
plea and pled guilty and you know, sentenced her to
thirty years, should have given her life. Yeah, well, I
was reading that she actually appealed because part of her
(28:55):
plea agreement of pleading guilty to second degree murderers that
she wouldn't get such a long sentence. But they basically
gave her thirty years, which she could have gotten for
first degree murder. So, you know, I'm sure her appeal
got denied because that was the Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals filed a formal mandate in the case of Jordan
Graham on February. This mandate affirmed with the court's decision
(29:20):
to deny Jordan's request for a shorter prison sentence. I
think when you're sort of in the true crime game,
and we do a lot of these types of podcasts,
everything from murder to con artists and everything in between,
you know, you spend so much time thinking about motivation
and theories and the why and the how and the
(29:41):
clues and the mystery and all that is what we
all love about it because that's what makes it so interesting.
But I think that we always have to remember in
the end that the young man lost his life. He
was tragically killed. I mean, he was murdered, and she
did it, his wife, and so whatever happened, whatever the reason,
what ever was going on, it's still not justification for
(30:03):
a murder. And there's a family that has now been
without their son for eight years and counting, and they'll
never get him back, and ultimately it's a real tragedy
because it could have been prevented. And your podcast is
called Crazy and Love, and I think ultimately love shouldn't
make you crazy. Obsession makes you crazy, Stocking makes you crazy.
(30:26):
Love should not make you crazy. Love should be a
beautiful thing. And what happened here was never loved clearly,
and it's just really really awful, sad tragedy. If you
haven't listened to Queen of the Con yet, all the
episodes are available wherever you get your podcasts. There are
ten episodes. It's a wild, twisty fun ride, and you
can also follow us on Instagram at Queen of the Con.
(30:49):
There are updates, there are visuals from the podcast that
are great to when you're hearing something to get the
visual to go along with it. And there's also updates
on the case that we will be doing, and hopefully
soon you'll be looking for Queen of the Con and
other forms and of course a second season in the
works of the podcast. It's an excellent, excellent podcast and
(31:11):
it's beautifully produced. In having colleagues on this show, honestly,
we can't thank you enough. Thank you guys. Yeah, if
you're curious about how a reasonably intelligent guy like morself
can get cond out of a hundred thousand dollars by
a woman, and I'm a gay man. Check out Queen
of the Con. You know, if you've never met a
(31:32):
professional con artist and you don't know what the tricks are,
I unpack all the tricks. They are insane Queen of
the Con anywhere you get podcasts and follow us on
Instagram at Queen of the Con Shameless plug. If you're
enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us a review. Season three
of the Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County is
in the works. We want to hear from you for
(31:55):
the upcoming season. Do you have a story to tell
a connection to Pike Tony or is there another case
local to Pike County that you can't let go of.
Please email info at Katie dash Studios dot com and
don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
(32:17):
Crazy in Love is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design
by Jeff Twa. Crazy in Love is a production of
I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,
M Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
because the story starts out with once upon a Times
doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
(00:20):
and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Today's guests are true crime producer Stephanie lie Decker, Queen
of the Con, executive producer Eliza Rosen, and host of
Queen of the Con Jonathan Walton. Queen of the Con
can be found wherever you get your podcasts and on
Instagram at Queen of the Con. There you'll find updates, visuals,
(00:44):
and teases for the upcoming second season episode two, The
Case of the Newlyweds, The Email, and the Husband Who
Fell Too Hard. Alas Bell, Montana is a country town
known as the gateway to the Majestic Glacier National Park
(01:05):
in the heart of the Rocky Mountains. With the population
of just twenty people, the community is tight. It's the
kind of place where you can ask your neighbor to
watch your kid or what are your plants. At twenty two,
Jordan Graham made a nice life for herself. She worked
as a babysitter and volunteered at the local animal shelter.
(01:25):
But something was missing. Jordan yearned for a romantic connection
with someone who understood her. She went on plenty of
dates with guys, but no one seemed right. That all
changed one Sunday after church, when Jordan and her friends
were at a taco bell. It was there that she
first saw Cody Johnson. Soon after, at a Halloween party,
(01:47):
they were formally introduced. Four years her senior, Cody was
mature and smart. He was also fun and loved a
good time. While he attended church, he also enjoyed watching
Nascar and drinking beer, but perhaps his biggest passion was
fixing and driving cars. Anyone who knew Cody knew he
(02:11):
had a need for speed. Despite their differences, friends thought
Cody and Jordan balanced each other out. They both loved
children and couldn't wait to be parents, and Cody was
quickly smitten with Jordan's He often told friends that she
was the one. On June, the couple tied the knot.
(02:34):
After the ceremony, Jordan and Cody took to the dance
floor to dance to a customized wedding song that Jordan
had written herself. She hired a local singer to perform
it for her new husband. Some of the lyrics quote
you helped me to climb higher for a better view,
(02:54):
You're my safe place to fall, you never let me go.
Here's Stephanie. So by all accounts, this couple seemed very
excited to get married. They were happy and in love,
and as with all of our stories, it starts really nicely.
(03:15):
In December, Jordan's posted a picture of her beautiful new
diamond ring, saying he proposed and that was it. It
was the best Christmas present ever. They also seemed like
they sort of made each other better people again. According
to friends, Jordan got Cody to go to church, and
Cody helped break her out of her shell. Yeah, and
(03:37):
while they're close, friends and family understand a connection. People
in cows Spell were shocked. Cody was known as this
outgoing and fun guy, and Jordan's was enigmatic at best.
She was shy, she was standoffish, and she often answered
questions with simple, one worded answers, which you know, sil
(04:00):
rivers run deep, and that's always a red flag for me.
I don't like I avoid people like Jordan's. But you know, what,
did Cody seen her? Everyone wondered, and I wonder too.
But again, when two people are alone, you don't know
what's happened, and maybe they had a great something, and
sometimes opposites attract, right, most times opposites attract. I think
(04:21):
I see a striking similarity right off the bat with
this woman to the con artist who scammed me out
of close to a hundred thousand dollars by pretending she
was an Irish heiress for four years. And we did
a podcast about it called Queen of the Con wherever
you get your podcasts. Um. They both presented themselves my
con artists and Jordan's certainly as you know, not who
they were. I mean, in the final analysis, it doesn't
(04:44):
seem like Jordan really was excited to marry him, and
yet she was kind of pretending that she was, and
she did. And look, that's kind of what we always
seem to circle the wagon about, right. It's sort of
looking at the very early days of a relationship, when
the romance is still there, in the dopamine is still
pumping through their veins. Everything seems so heavenly, and you know,
(05:06):
is there anything on its nose that we can point
to to say trouble in paradise, but seemingly not. I disagree.
I think the quietness is a red flag I think,
and again not to indict all quiet, shy people, but
it seemed like a systemic thing like she did this
with everyone. She was shy and one word answers and
didn't want to elaborate much on things, and that makes
(05:28):
me uneasy, especially now after having been the victim or
con artists. I don't like that kind of thing, Eliza,
anything worth noting for you, Yeah, I don't think that
being quiet is necessarily means anything. I think that, you know,
there's plenty of crazy people or psychopaths who are gregarious,
and plenty who are quiet. I don't. I don't necessarily
think that's a red flag. But I think what it
(05:49):
means is that we don't know who she is because
she is really enigmatic too, even her closest friends. It
seems well. The beautiful ceremony would make it seem like
the young couple had a bright feature ahead of them.
Those who knew the pair began to see cracks. Cody's
friends jokingly started bets as to how long it would
(06:11):
take for the couple to divorce. It seemed, though, that
the problems may have been one sided. While Cody was
head over heels with Jordan's, she was distant. No one
ever saw the couple flirt, hold hands, or kiss. It
also turned out that prior to the wedding, Jordan had
gotten a serious case of cold feet. She confided in
(06:34):
her best friend and made of honor that she wasn't
sure she wanted to get married. Her friend told her
that she needed to talk to Cody, advice, Jordan never took.
Things only got worse after the wedding. Here's Eliza. So
the day after these two get married, Jordan's sends a
(06:55):
string of text messages to her friend that definitely fires
some alarms. So one of them reads, totally just had
a meltdown on completely second guessing everything. I don't know
if all of this was the right thing to do.
So much happened last night, I just don't know. And
then she sent another text that said, I'm just having
second thoughts and I'm really nervous about the whole sex thing.
(07:18):
I don't think I can do it. And then after
those texts, the next day, the texting went on. She
continued to text her friend. She said, I cannot freaking
pull myself together. I haven't stopped crying since I was married.
I wish someone would have stood up and asked me
what I wanted, but I can't go back and change anything.
I should be happy, and I'm just not. I don't
(07:40):
feel like myself. It's just so freaking hard. I want
my happy self back, but I'm a loser who can't
open my mouth and say how I feel. So to me,
there's like two ways that you can read those texts, right.
You can either read them as a genuinely miserable person
who made a massive mistake and was telling her best
friend about it, or if she's more calcul related and premeditated.
(08:01):
This definitely sends bread crumbs at a perfect paper trail
to have people look back and go, well, look, she
was so unhappy and who knows what was really going
on in that marriage, So she pretty much accomplished both ways,
but you know, we still don't know why, and if
she is in fact calculated, it's kind of the perfect
plan because it's very common for brides to have mixed
(08:23):
feelings after the wedding because they have a come down
for either from planning or the pregame shitters. We hear
stories like that all the time, so it's easy to
explain that away. So for her, it's the perfect alibi
to be she is really setting the stage if in
fact that's the case, right, And yeah, she's setting the
stage that she's not happy and unhappy people fight, and
(08:48):
you know that's the next important component in her story
if she wants to be believed, is that they were fighting.
And yeah, like a Lisa said, this is the perfect
groundwork for that. So if you think back to the wedding,
I guess at the wedding said the whole wedding night
was really strange and awkward. So Jordan was crying as
she walked down the aisle, but not like you know
(09:08):
how you see bride's cry and their happy tears. You
could just tell her overwhelmed with just a beautiful emotion.
Her tears were not good tears. She wouldn't even make
eye contact with Cody, and she seemed miserable, which is
a big deal. Yeah, that's a huge tell. I would
imagine the sobbing and crying. I think she knew then
and there what she had to do. What she planned
(09:28):
to do, and she didn't want to do it. So
that's her emotion kind of taking over, like, that's my feeling.
I don't like this woman at all, and now no
one does. But at the time that is a huge
red flag. She shouldn't be so upset on her wedding day.
But while the wedding was bad, friends were surprised they
ever even got that far. Prior to the wedding, she
had told friends she wasn't attracted to Cody and was
(09:53):
more interested in planning a wedding than actually being married,
which I think happens to a lot of women. It's
more exciting to plan the wedding and get the dress
and pick the food and do a cake tasting. That's
always been my dream, going for cake tasting. But you know, Stephanie,
what's your take. I think that you're exactly right. Oftentimes,
(10:13):
the spectacle of the event, can you know, delay problems
if there are any, And maybe that could be why
she was crying so so deeply, is that maybe she
realized she was caught up in the wedding, not the marriage.
And you know, we have heard now all of these
reports regarding her her desire not to have sex with
her husband, so she saved herself for marriage. And PR
(10:36):
reported that ten percent of Americans saved themselves for marriage,
so that's not particularly uncommon. But maybe that was coming
to a head. If she really was unable to have
sex with her husband because it was for religious purposes
and religious reasons. Now she's married and she still doesn't
want to have sex with him. That's a big hole
(10:57):
in her story, right if it was for religious reasons.
Now they're married. So that's a good point you bring up.
It doesn't hold water her. You know, I'm waiting to
my wedding night. Well, obviously she wasn't waiting till her
wedding night. That is very true, and she confessed that
to her maid of honor, who was also her best friend,
that even until way after their wedding, they were just
not having sex and just the idea of it made
(11:18):
her want to freak out. The couple's problems came to
a glaring halt when, just nine days after the wedding,
Cody failed to show up for work. It was out
of character for the young man to miss work and
blow off his responsibilities, so his supervisor and friend texted
Jordan later that afternoon, asking if Cody was okay, Jordan
(11:39):
told him that just last night, Cody left mysteriously with
some of his quote car buddies. She did not know
who they were or where they were taking her husband.
The couple's friends were confused over what happened to Cody.
While Jordan told some friends they hadn't been fighting, she
told others that before he left, they had and fact
(12:00):
gotten into a fight, and the fight was so bad
Cody had scratched her. One of the biggest red flags
of that looking back, is she didn't seem concerned that
her husband was missing. You know, I have a husband.
If he was missing, I would be beside myself with
grief and worry and crying and shouting and anger, and
(12:23):
I would be feeling everything. But for her to be
so regular and vacant even and not really emotionally responding
to the fact that her husband's missing. So with Cody gone,
Jordan was eating ice cream, literally skipping. The happiest her
friends had ever seen her. She wasn't even the one
to call the cops. Cody's boss called the cops because
(12:45):
he suspected foul play, which always has resonated with me
and just to play devil's advocate to that, though, is
it possible that maybe Jordan was in shock? Sometimes, you know,
people who are experiencing some high level of trauma do
things that are on a explainable We've seen that in
the Jodi Arias case. We've seen that multiple times. Is
there possibly something to that that she was just in
(13:07):
a phase. I don't know. Eating ice cream in shock.
I've seen people in shock and you're like catatonic and
can't do anything. Like when my buddy who was in
the podcast Queen of the Cons that I did about
how I got caught, he found out his wife is
cheating on him. He was in shock, he was catatonic.
I remember that because I've never seen anything like it.
Eating ice cream and skipping. No, that's not someone in shock,
(13:31):
that's someone covering. I completely agree. That's a very random
way of responding when your spouse, by the way, your
new spouse, you're still newlyweds just a few days in
at this point. Also, one other quick little side note
to that. The day before disappearing, Cody told friends that
Jordan had this real big surprise for him, something that
(13:52):
was very sexy and romantic. Obviously that was becoming probably
a hot topic in their relationship. So that was a
big deal, and they seemed, you know, the friends all
thought well because of that, you know, things must have
been getting better because they were taking this time to
be together. We're going to take a break. We'll be
back in just a moment. There were so many consistencies
(14:28):
in her story about whether they fought did they not
fight before he left, and police confronted her with those inconsistencies. First,
she tells police that Cody left when she was picking
up a phone charger at the home where she was
babysitting earlier that day. However, that story did not match
up at all to what police had heard earlier from her,
(14:50):
which is what she had told Cody's bosses about the
car buddies. So she had told his boss that some
guys came to pick him up and just took him away,
and she didn't know where he went or who he
went with. And so then the detective who interviewed her,
when he was videotaping their interview, he said, I've been
doing this for a long time and I can pick
(15:12):
up things about people. I feel like you're not being
honest with me. So how does Jordan react. She stares
blankly at him, and she just shrugs her shoulders. So
you have to ask, is this indifference or disassociation or
she knows she's been caught and she just is trying
(15:33):
to figure out what to say or do. It's hard
to know. Also, not that dissimilar to you know, your
story as well. Yeah, I mean my con artist, Mayor Smith.
You know, she was much more brilliant a con than
Jordan's is turning out to be. But I think her
default was blank stare. When they're caught, it's a blank stare.
(15:56):
That was Mayor to a tie. Blank stare Mayor. That's
what called her in high school, kidding, that's what they
should have called her. That is a very telling attribute.
A blank face in the face of a murder, in
the face of your husband's dad. We're searching for a body,
you know, blank face like very telling plotting, you know,
real time interesting. Without any solid evidence, Jordan was sent home,
(16:20):
but the next day the case would blow wide open.
Jordan received an email from an account she'd never heard of,
Carman Tony six oh seven at gmail dot com. The
email read, my name is Tony there is no bother
looking for Cody anymore. He is gone. I saw your
(16:44):
post on Twitter and thought I would email you. He
had come with somebody's and met up with me on
Sunday night in Columbia Falls. He was saying he needed
to be with his buddies for a bit and take
them for a joy ride. Three of the guys came
back saying they had gone for a ride in the
wood somewhere and Cody got out of the car went
(17:05):
for a little hike and they are positive he fell
and he is dead. Jordan's I don't know who the
guys were, but they took off, so call off the
missing person's report. Cody is gone for sure. This email
is signed Tony s. Here's Jonathan. This is just freaking insane.
(17:29):
It's just so preposterous. I know your husband's dad stopped
looking for him. Good luck. Like, who send an email
like that. It's so clearly your faith. This email, on
its face is laughable, And the fact that this is
what she chose to do to put this whole thing
to rest is pretty indicative that this woman had I mean,
(17:50):
is kind of a dummy. Sorry, you know we are
left here. Friends are panicked but Jordan's completely calm, with
you know, no emotion at all, which is a dead
giveaway in my book, she had to be convinced to
go to the cops, Like, you know her husband's missing,
you should go to the cops in the first few
hours you know he's missing. That's just insane. And Jordan
(18:11):
told police that she didn't know anyone named Tony and
that the email probably meant that they could all call
off their search, which is just a certain level delusional,
like police are gonna stop an investigation because someone emailed
them from a Gmail account. It's just so nonsensical. But
I think it speaks to her desperation and like Alisa said,
(18:32):
her lack of criminal sophistication. She's not a pro. Later
that day, Jordan wanted to organize another search for Cody.
This time, she suggested they visited Kalispell National Park, a
place Cody often like to visit. The park is known
for its beautiful vista's waterfalls and staggering cliff sides. Despite
(18:57):
the sun setting, Jordan was adamant they needed to search immediately,
so friends and family drove her the minutes to the park.
Once they arrived, Jordan got out of the car and
wandered the parking lot before telling people she wanted to
climb to a particular section on the trail. At this point,
the sun had fully set, so her brother said it
(19:18):
was too dark and dangerous. Jordan begrudgingly went home. The
next day, Jordan returned to the park, and this time
she acted swiftly, leading her friends down the same distinct path.
At one point, Jordan climbed over a guardrail to a
particularly perilous part of the mountain. Despite her friend's confusion
(19:40):
over why Cody would have ended up in this location
or how Jordan seemed to know it, they followed her.
Sure enough, they made a shocking discovery. At the bottom
of the two foot ravine was Cody's body. Here's Eliza,
I mean, how would she know where his body was?
(20:01):
That just does not make any sense. This is a
huge location too, so yes, there were many ways to
walk or to go. She told friends that she had
a quote feeling about it, and you know something Also
to note, friends were saying that while everybody was crying
and you know, for right, for all the right reasons,
(20:24):
sobbing over the fact that they just discovered Codey's body,
she seemed rather nonchalant about it, and you know, just
sort of walked away. She also just told friends that well,
now that they have a body, they could stop looking
for Cody, and now police could you know, leave her
alone and she can get on with her life just
like that. So case closed, just like any grieving wife wants.
(20:48):
So the autopsy comes back and it's found that Cody
had broken both of his arms, he had severe head trauma,
and that pointed to the idea that he had most
likely fallen head first, so which also implied that he
was pushed or fell rather than jumping. So police also
(21:10):
find a black cloth near Cody's body, which they assume
was the blindfold because they had heard this story that
she had told people that she was going to surprise
him and blindfolded him for this grand surprise that she
was telling people at Hurt she was going to give
him that night. So how did Jordan's react to all
of this the same way she always did? Very oddly,
(21:34):
you know, it was reported that she was always very
quiet and shy. As we discussed. However, during the funeral,
which is you know, frankly kind of appalling, she was
seeing texting on her phone again showing either a complete
lack of empathy or maybe that's a sign that there's
shock involved. But it was at this point that her
(21:56):
best friend, who was also her maid of honor, had
to really take a good look at her and come
to the realization that it's possible her her best friend,
murdered her husband. Yeah, I mean, you know, best hiding
places in plain sight. I think that's what became clear
to everyone too a little too late. You know, if
(22:16):
only they could have intervened earlier, like, you know, get
away from this woman. She's crazy. But you know, no
one assumed she would do what she did. How could you.
She was telling the sex story to everybody in their
brother including her own father, or there was no boundaries
on the story. Some things we kind of keep private,
and you know, she did disclose many texts in kind
(22:37):
of laying the groundwork for this to happen. Well, she
also never went into detail about what the surprise was,
so there was really no story there, Like you're going
to surprise someone by bringing them up to the top
of the mountain and blindfolding them, What are you showing them?
What are you giving them? She really had no good
backup story. To even explain the blindfold or how he
(23:01):
fell off that cliff. You bring up a very good point,
because that is what one would assume, right that there
was maybe a terrible accident that happens, that's where it
would happen, that has happened before, that wouldn't be completely outlandish,
and then would justify some of her emotion in the
following days, etcetera. But no, she again went ahead and
wasted everybody's time, wasted resources, you know, tormented his family.
(23:27):
Really had no shame in her game in terms of
just throwing him under the bus, even in his name.
Oh he's out partying or drinking or this, that and
another thing. Yeah, it's hard to imagine that level of callousness.
You know, she's a murderer. And I don't think she
was a happy murderer. I don't think she was a
little girl dreaming one day I'll wake up and be
(23:48):
a murderer. I just think she saw an opportunity, she
saw means to an ends, and she, you know, reluctantly,
it would seem took it, but she did it and
tried to cover it up. And yeah, I think she's
a murderer. As Cody Johnson was being buried. The police
were working hard to find his killer. They started by
(24:09):
tracing the cryptic email from Tony. It turned out the
server in which the email was sent was located at
Jordan's stepfather's house. Additionally, the police now had cell phone
records which showed Jody and Cody had both been at
the park the day he disappeared. Finally, they tracked down
surveillance from the National Park. The video showed Jordan and
(24:33):
Cody driving in, but only Jordan driving out. It was
enough to get a warrant for the new bride's arrest.
Take a listen to some of her interview with police.
Have waited a little bit longer and got married. I
wasn't scaring night. He said I could choose hold on it.
(24:54):
He said I could put it on, take a step,
but I wouldn't even fall. But I kept go into
my headset as you are going to follow um. And
then we were arguing some more things. To grab my
arm from my jacket, and I said, no, I'm going
to defend myself. Okay, I want to go, and I
pushed and went over. And I believe in that interview
she's not admitting that she killed him. She's admitting, you know,
(25:17):
it's an accident. Yeah, because because at one point she
even forcefully pushes back and says something to the effect of,
I absolutely did not intend for this to happen. That
wasn't my intention. We got into a fight and I
pushed and he fell. Um, which you got into a
fight and he's wearing a blindfold and you're on a cliff.
(25:37):
Let's stop here for another break. At first, Jordan acts
like she always did. She's cold, and she's distant, and
she tells the police the same story about the car
(26:00):
our buddies, how they came to the house and picked
him up, you know where he was going. But then
police present her with a mountain of evidence against her,
so she starts breaking down and crying. Finally some emotion
too little, too late, Jordan's yeah, because she's caught now,
you know. Now she knows they know that. She knows
(26:20):
that they know that she knows that they know that
she knows. Figure that one out. So Jordan's story continues
to evolve during the interrogation. She first tells police that
Cody bet her that he could walk the trail blindfolded. Um,
which is just really that that's a weird bet. You
(26:40):
put on the blindfold of her surprise, and he's betting, oh,
that I could walk it blindfolded. Okay. Then she says,
because of that bet, that caused an argument, that caused
a fight, and then he scratched her in the fight,
and she got you know, after receiving the shock of
the scratch, she pushed him and he felt. However, she
(27:01):
eventually revealed the truth that she blindfolded him herself, led
him to the edge and pushed him from behind, which
her explanation was, you know, they were fighting and she
reacted and pushed. She didn't know he would fall. She
didn't intend to push him off a cliff, is what
she said. And I guess nobody was buying it. Five
(27:25):
months later, the brunette widow sat in court pleading not
guilty to murder. However, four days into the trial, Jordan
shocked the court when she changed her plea to guilty,
accepting a charge of second degree murder. The plea deal
meant she would avoid potentially being convicted of first degree murder,
which had a much harsher sentence. On March, Jordan was
(27:48):
sentenced to thirty years in prison. The thing that sticks
out to me in all of the news coverage that
I read about this case, when when the trial started,
everyone reported Jordan's sitting in court expressionless, expressionless as the
you know, Cody's Mother's understand tearfully recounting, you know, hearing
(28:12):
that her son had died and would like any normally
human being would have been crying, anyone who was not
the murderer would have been crying. But she sat there expressionless.
So that's a very big giveaway. Um, the jury is watching,
you know, the jury is watching how you react to
people saying these horrible, emotional, tragic things. And if you're
(28:32):
just have a blank stare, that just makes you look
guilty as hell. So yeah, she you know, she started
the trial saying she wasn't guilty. After a bunch of
testimony for my thirty or forty people, she changed her
plea and pled guilty and you know, sentenced her to
thirty years, should have given her life. Yeah, well, I
was reading that she actually appealed because part of her
(28:55):
plea agreement of pleading guilty to second degree murderers that
she wouldn't get such a long sentence. But they basically
gave her thirty years, which she could have gotten for
first degree murder. So, you know, I'm sure her appeal
got denied because that was the Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals filed a formal mandate in the case of Jordan
Graham on February. This mandate affirmed with the court's decision
(29:20):
to deny Jordan's request for a shorter prison sentence. I
think when you're sort of in the true crime game,
and we do a lot of these types of podcasts,
everything from murder to con artists and everything in between,
you know, you spend so much time thinking about motivation
and theories and the why and the how and the
(29:41):
clues and the mystery and all that is what we
all love about it because that's what makes it so interesting.
But I think that we always have to remember in
the end that the young man lost his life. He
was tragically killed. I mean, he was murdered, and she
did it, his wife, and so whatever happened, whatever the reason,
what ever was going on, it's still not justification for
(30:03):
a murder. And there's a family that has now been
without their son for eight years and counting, and they'll
never get him back, and ultimately it's a real tragedy
because it could have been prevented. And your podcast is
called Crazy and Love, and I think ultimately love shouldn't
make you crazy. Obsession makes you crazy, Stocking makes you crazy.
(30:26):
Love should not make you crazy. Love should be a
beautiful thing. And what happened here was never loved clearly,
and it's just really really awful, sad tragedy. If you
haven't listened to Queen of the Con yet, all the
episodes are available wherever you get your podcasts. There are
ten episodes. It's a wild, twisty fun ride, and you
can also follow us on Instagram at Queen of the Con.
(30:49):
There are updates, there are visuals from the podcast that
are great to when you're hearing something to get the
visual to go along with it. And there's also updates
on the case that we will be doing, and hopefully
soon you'll be looking for Queen of the Con and
other forms and of course a second season in the
works of the podcast. It's an excellent, excellent podcast and
(31:11):
it's beautifully produced. In having colleagues on this show, honestly,
we can't thank you enough. Thank you guys. Yeah, if
you're curious about how a reasonably intelligent guy like morself
can get cond out of a hundred thousand dollars by
a woman, and I'm a gay man. Check out Queen
of the Con. You know, if you've never met a
(31:32):
professional con artist and you don't know what the tricks are,
I unpack all the tricks. They are insane Queen of
the Con anywhere you get podcasts and follow us on
Instagram at Queen of the Con Shameless plug. If you're
enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us a review. Season three
of the Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County is
in the works. We want to hear from you for
(31:55):
the upcoming season. Do you have a story to tell
a connection to Pike Tony or is there another case
local to Pike County that you can't let go of.
Please email info at Katie dash Studios dot com and
don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
(32:17):
Crazy in Love is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design
by Jeff Twa. Crazy in Love is a production of
I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,
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