July 19, 2022 • 26 mins
Today’s guests are producers Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane.
When an over-the-top renovation proves to be too much, one couple is pushed to the ultimate breaking point. In this twisted case, the house wasn't the only thing that crumbled.
Check us out online! www.instagram.com/KT_Studios
Learn more about your ad choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
because the story starts out with once upon a Times
doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
(00:21):
and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Today's guests are true crime producers Stephanie Ldiger and Jeff Shane.
Episode thirty six, The Case of the Renovation, The Ring,
and the Double Life. The house at to East Copeland
(00:45):
Drive was almost square feet. It had a pool, a garage, apartment,
a fireplace, and five bathrooms. Located just a mile from
downtown Orlando, Florida, in the upscale neighborhood of Delaney Park,
it was known for its great schools and expansive gardens.
The property should have been any couple's dream home, but
(01:10):
for Chanty and Dave Tronas, the Spanish style mansion became
a place of secrets, lies, and unimaginable terror. Five years
before the tragedy that would transpire, Shanty and Dave were
mere strangers who began chatting on match dot Com. Shanty
was thirty four and living in the Orlando area. Dave
(01:31):
was ten years her senior and located up in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Despite their distance, the pair fell to connection. Shanty was
a hard working, dedicated single mother who cared deeply about
her eight year old son. Dave was intelligent and charming.
The couple also bonded over the shared experiences of complicated divorces.
(01:55):
Dave and Shanty fell hard for each other fast with
In just months of meeting, Dave packed up and moved
to Florida to be with Shaunty. One email she wrote
to him sums up the early days of their relationship well, quote, Dave,
I will have to say, I think this will be
a delicious detour, an amazing, life changing detour. I've had
(02:20):
a pep in my steps since we started this little
email affair. In February, Shaunty and Dave got married with
the stunning fifteen thousand dollar diamond ring. Here's Stephanie. So
here's what we know about them when they first met.
Within months of becoming a couple, Dave moved hundreds of
(02:41):
miles to Florida. He loved the area and bought a
house at two hundred and eighteen East Copeland Drive for
six hundred and seven thousand, five hundred dollars with cash.
According to the real estate agent who sold him the house,
Dave was like a child when you bought the home.
He was desperate and wanted to get the deal done.
(03:01):
It was sort of off putting to her that he
was so pushy, but also anyone who bought a home
can relate to the feeling of just wanting to close
that deal. But that said, paying cash for a house
is pretty difficult. Jeff, what did the couple do? Shaunty
and Dave were both very successful. She ran a fruitful
financial software business and was able to work from home,
(03:22):
and Dave had recently inherited between four and six million
dollars from his father, so that would explain why he
was able to pay cash for the house. And so
I think because they were both maybe business minded, they
decided to keep their finances very separate. Dave paid for
the house and didn't end up putting Shaunty on the deed.
And while at first this worked, it became kind of
(03:43):
a hot button issue because Shaunty actually moved into the
home and that's not all. The couple started an expansive
remodel on the home, and because David paid for the
home and cash, Shaunty agreed to flip the bill for
the remodel under the guys that she would eventually be
added to the deep Dave asked his neighbor for her
advice on the remodel. Take a listen. He was asking
me specifically about raising the floor in the living room
(04:06):
to match the kitchen. And I thought, that's a major,
major problem because the doors back there you'd have to
bring you'd have to replace all those doors, You'd have
to bring those all up to the right height. And
I thought, why would you do that? I mean, I
could understand. I told him, I said, if you want
your kitchen bigger, bring the kitchen floor out further and
(04:28):
make the breakfast area smaller. But to raise the whole
floor up, to me seemed a little ludicrous. I mean,
it just seemed crazy. Did it seem as you're looking
around the house and he's explaining what they want to do,
that it was going to be expensive. Oh, I mean
I could tell it was going to be expensive. I
mean there was no that was not And at that point, um,
(04:50):
I mean, that's where they were already was like a
two dollar renovation minimum. When you hear that, it just
seems like Dave didn't care about the cost. He was
on a roll. If the neighbor, who didn't really know
the specifics of the job could tell it would be
that expensive, it must have been pretty bad. I can't
imagine Shanty, a hard working single mom, would have loved
(05:10):
that not only was her home such a mess, but
that she was also paying for all of it at
the same time. It would ultimately turn into a life
altering redot. Shanty and Dave had big plans for the house.
They wanted to open up the main living space and
redo every bathroom and bedroom. The house was torn down
to the studs and the budget ballooned. Like many homeowners
(05:34):
who attempt a renovation, Shanty and Dave found themselves in
over their heads. Here's Jeff, So, like we said, since
Day paid for the house, Shanty fronted the costs for
the HNO, but that again became a problem when the
costs for the remodel reached two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
And remember, Shanty wasn't even on the d to the house,
(05:56):
so while she was investing all this money into the home,
it wasn't even hers. So the deed to a house
staff correct me if I'm wrong, is really just states
who the owner of the home is. So if something
were to happen to Dave, let's say, Shaunty, would have
no steak in the property because she's not on the deed.
Or moreover, I believe that if Dave decided overnight that
(06:17):
he wanted to sell the property, he wouldn't need her
permission to do so. And suddenly she's put two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars into a home that she could
frankly be asked to leave or not benefit from the
sale of the house. Right So she's investing to make
this property worth much more than it already is and
not going to see any of the returns. A neighbor
(06:37):
spoke about the dynamics of the relationship. What was your
observations with Dave and jacks Um, Dave was always very
nice to Jackson. He treated like his own son. He
seemed very concerned with his well being. UM like, I
know that he They didn't like Jackson's teacher this year.
I don't know if it was so much Shaunty, I
(06:58):
don't know, but Day would always say you don't like Mrs.
It's not the right fit for Jackson. I think Mrs
was more free form. He needs structure, you know. And
and for Dave to be that concerned about Jackson, I
thought was unusual, you know, because it's not your child,
but he talked to him as if it was his
own child. We were also never able to figure out
(07:21):
what Dave did. By all counts, he was unemployed and
seemingly living off of the big inheritance he said his
dad left for him. It's interesting, though, that the impression
the couple was giving was that Shanty was the sole
provider and supporting Dave. I suppose I could see how
it would seem that way, since Shanty worked all day
and Dave just sort of hung around. After three years
(07:41):
of construction and many contractors later, the house on East
Copeland Drive was no closer to being completed. It had
become so unlivable that Shaunty and Dave began sleeping in
the garage apartment. According to their last contractor, the rehynot
was causing a strain on the couple and things were tense.
Shanty was displeased with the time and money being spent,
(08:05):
and the fact that her husband would not change the deed.
But on Aeen at three fifteen PM, all of that
would seem irrelevant. Nine one one operators in Delaney Park
received this call. Hello, tried to do can you get
(08:33):
her out of the shower? Okay? Is she laying from
on the back? Okay? And you don't know what happened
here or when anything happened? Okay. Through guttural sobs, Dave
(08:58):
told paramedics he had found his wife unresponsive in the bathtub.
When the police arrived, Shaunty was dead. Dave told the
detectives that he had been out for a walk with
the dogs and when he came home, he found Shaunty
in the tub. Oddly, police noticed there were no signs
of a struggle or fourth entry. While five thousand dollars
(09:23):
in cash and Shaunty's beautiful fifteen thousand dollar engagement ring,
we're missing. Many other valuables such as computers, watches, and
phones were not taken. With very little to go on,
police turned to Dave for answers. Davis brought in for
questioning and it began what would turn into a marathon
(09:46):
fourteen hour interrogation. Very quickly, he refused a lawyer, so
the cops were free to ask him anything and everything
they wanted and asked him. They did listen to Dave
describe what he found when he discovered Shaunty in the bathtub.
She's submerged partially, but she's also partially not submerged and
(10:08):
kind of sticking up a little. And it's just extremely
it's awful and it doesn't look natural. Obviously she or
something happened. They try to pick her up, she's she's
(10:28):
it's hard to pick her up. She's met stick a
sack of potatoes. It's easy. It just to me sounds
so methodical and cold. I mean, at one point he
describes her as a sack of potatoes. To me, that
seems like a very odd way to describe your now
deceased wife when you find her in the tub. That's
not the only thing that was odd. The cops also
(10:49):
found it strange that, despite telling them he found her
in the bathtub and immediately calling them on one, the
bathroom was completely dry when they arrived, and Shanty was
only damp, not wet, So then that just didn't that up. Yeah,
that was a big piece to this case. There was
also some blood found on the bed frame. Dave theorized
that it could have been from Shaunty's menstrual cycle, so
(11:11):
the question would have been who would possibly want to
hurt the compassionate and successful mother. The detectives just decided
to ask Dave outright, have a listen, any problems? Yeah, okay,
anyone that want to do her home? At the talent
(11:33):
of the interrogation, the cops tried to coax a confession
out of Dave, but he continued to deny murdering his wife.
You either man a mistake, you're cool boy kill which
may We also know that Shaunty had a two hundred
and fifty thousand dollar life insurance policy and that Dave
was the beneficiary, But the missing ring in the cash
(11:55):
was always sort of odd and didn't completely add up. Meaning,
if day I've wanted to hurt Shaunty, why would he
take that? There really would be no reason other than
if he was looking to stage it or make the
scene look as though it was a robbery. Right, But
if he was really trying to make it look like
a robber, you think he would have taken the cell
phones or the computers, or the watches or the earrings.
(12:17):
But it seems very pointed to me that just this
large amount of cash and the ring were taken. I
mean to me. You know, we talk a lot about
whether you should lawyer her up or not law your up,
and it seems like whether or not you did something
or you didn't do something, having a lawyer is always
a smart move, especially when you know the cops are
looking at you for talking to you for fourteen hours.
(12:38):
You're bound to say something that will frame you in
a bad light or give something up that you don't
want to give up. I mean, obviously the cops thought
he was the lead suspect at this time that they're
talking to be fourteen hours. They had nothing else to
go off of at this point, and he refused a
lawyer because in some cases that does look bad if
you're suddenly feeling as though you need counsel to discuss
(12:58):
a scene that you just walked into. I can see
both sides of that, right, I mean, for fourteen hours.
If he doesn't crack after fourteen hours, perhaps he really
doesn't have anything to hide. And of course he wants
to find the murderer, so theoretically he's going to say
everything and anything he knows so that the police could
get off of him as a main suspect and onto
(13:19):
finding the person who is still at large with Dave A. Freeman.
The police looked at other suspects. First was Shanty's ex husband.
They had a bitter divorce and shared custody of their son.
Could he have killed her to get control of their child?
Police also honed in on a local homeless man who
was known to hang around to Leaney Park. Do you
(13:42):
recognize her? No? Right? Have you ever seen her before? No? No? Okay?
You ever spoken to her or nothing? No? Okay? Do
you recognize this fan? No? I don't. All right, I'm
showing him a picture of David Michael Old Churnis and
have you ever had a conversation with him? For any reason?
(14:05):
I'm out here to something in the morning is because
I needed to ask you whether or not, um you
had been in her home or seen her or harmed
her in any way. Have you ever been in her home?
Have you ever harmed her in any way? Okay? Did
you kill her? No? No? Would you have any reason
(14:25):
to the police were very thorough with their investigation. We
know they looked at Shanty's acts husband and a local
homeless man, but they were ultimately able to clear them
both because they had airtight allillies. So naturally, the investigators
look back at Dave and kind of what he has
going on in his life, and when they started going
through his credit card statements, they found one thing that
(14:47):
struck them as strange. On his statement, he had a
recurring thirty five dollar payment to a place called the
Club or Lando. And it turns out the Club Orlando
is a men's gym, but is known to host some
more toward activities than average twenty four hour fitness. Yeah,
this is a very confusing topic because, on the one hand,
we know that Dave is married, so why would he
(15:07):
be paying for a membership at a men's hook up Jim.
That said, it's also quite possible he was just going
to the gym to work out that also happened to
be a hook up Jim, he didn't necessarily have to
partake in that. Yeah, it's interesting because you can look
at these two things as separate issues or potentially related.
On the one hand, he might not have been doing anything,
(15:30):
that's one possibility, or he might have been actually going
and hooking up with guys, and that might not have
to do with the murder of his wife. But it
does tell us that maybe he's being deceitful to either
the police because he didn't tell him upfront that he
is cheating on his wife, or he's being deceitful to
Shanti because he's lying to her about what he's doing
(15:51):
outside of their marriage. In any case, it is circumstantial evidence,
but it does point to maybe his character and calls
into question what he's saying. Is that because he's clearly
not being truthful, that's exactly right. It does paint a
picture of him that's simply not favorable. We're going to
take a break. We'll be back in just a moment.
(16:25):
So much of these cases are not necessarily about physical evidence,
but what the police perceive as your character and the
type of person that you are. And whether he's lying
to the police or he's lying to his wife, it
certainly doesn't make him look like a good person, right,
And to that end, the two don't necessarily go hand
in hand. Just because he's maybe stepping out and either
(16:47):
exercising at the gym or exercising at the gym and
stepping out on his marriage. Again, that doesn't make him
a murderer or a murderer of Shaunty specifically, as police
looked at all the pieces to a puzzle, everything led
back to Dave. One he had motive. Financially he stood
(17:07):
to gain with Shaunty dead personally, she might have been
enraged over his extramarital activities. Two he had opportunity. Dave
was admittedly the last person to see her alive. This
was enough to make an arrest, and on August, four
months after Shanty's death, Dave was officially charged with her murder.
(17:31):
Dave had been staying at his mother's house, and when
the police searched his things, they found the supposedly missing
ring in a suitcase. To them, it was the nail
in Dave's coffin. Finding the ring was a very big
deal and a break in the case, and as the
prosecution built their case, detectives got a tip that would
(17:54):
send them right back to where it all began. A
former friend of Dave's in Minnesota said that Dave had
been poisoning his ex wife, a woman named Carol. In Minnesota,
detectives learned that Carol had in fact suffered from a
series of health issues. She always spoke about chronic pain
and gut issues, and she also acknowledged to police that
(18:15):
Dave cooked most of her meals. Listen to this, who
cooked in the home? We both did? He primarily cooked
in the home um in the early days. I I
don't remember. I think he might have done a lot
of the cooking. He's a better cook than I. You
mentioned the chef thinks, so that makes sense that he
(18:38):
was inspiring chef after that three m He did a
lot of the cooking early on. I don't know if
we did a lot of it, but I mean he
I honestly don't remember the meals. Okay, such an odd description. Now,
listen to the cops when they asked Carol directly if
(19:00):
Dave was poisoning her, would there have been any reason
to believe that you could have been given something poisoned,
given certain supplements, things along those lines that could have
caused any of the medical issues. But how does this
all play into Shaunty's story. Eight weeks before her dath,
Shahnty had an emergency appenducting me. As it turns out,
appendicitis and poisoning have very similar symptoms, So the theory
(19:23):
was that potentially Dave had been poisoning his ex wife
Carol and his current wife Shaunty. He even admitted in
his interrogation that Shaunty had digestion problems. She hasn't found
since the appendant me that she can eat regularly and
feel good. While it seemed very possible that Dave had
(19:44):
a pattern of poisoning the women he supposedly loved, detectives
just could never really prove it. Shaunty's autopsy was very clear.
It said that she died of strangulation and blunt force trauma.
And while this whole theory about the poison was creeping
and very weird, it essentially took a backseat. While in Minnesota,
(20:06):
detectives also made another discovery about Dave's deceptions. So we
know that Dave had told Shaunty he inherited four to
six million dollars from his dad. It was how he
paid cash for the house, But it turned out that
was a lot. He never inherited any money, and he
most likely used all his savings to pay for the
house in cash. Why would he lie about that, Deshaunty?
(20:26):
I wonder if it was because Shanty was successful and
had her own money and Dave wanted to seem like
he did too, and he didn't need her for her money.
He wanted to appear independently wealthy. Eleven months after the murder,
another twist would shock investigators. Dave's former defense attorney, who
made since replaced, turned in a set of bloody sheets
(20:48):
and a green cord to the police. According to the lawyer,
he had acquired the items from the garage apartment after
the murder. However, he never turned them into police or
the prosecution. Could the sheets prove Dave killed Shaunty in
their bedroom, was the green cord the murder weapon? As
(21:09):
the lawyer was investigated for withholding key evidence. Please got
another shocking phone call. Dave's cellmate came forward with quite
a story. The cellmate told officials that they bonded over
their love of obscure hallucinogens, including one that came from
a frog. According to the cell mate, Dave said he
(21:31):
could use frog poison to kill someone. He also said
that Dave confessed to murder. The cellmates said that Dave
told him Shanty found a gay hook up app on
his phone and completely freaked out. They had a big fight,
he blacked out and then he killed her and While
all of this sound plausible, including the whole frog thing,
(21:53):
it couldn't be corroborated and there were no records of
Dave having any app like that on his phone. So ultimately,
while intr staying, the cellmate story was dismissed, let's stop
here for another break. So will cops couldn't do anything
(22:23):
with the cellmate story. They still had these bloody sheets
and the green cord to look out, So let's just
talk this through. According to the police, what happened that night.
Police think that Shanty is sitting there getting ready for bed,
taking her earrings out as you would, and she had
one earring out, one on the nightstand, and that's when
Dave came up behind her and attacked her. The attack
(22:45):
would explain the blood that was found not only on
the sheets, but also the bed frame. You know, the
same bed frame that Dave thought was just her period
blood on it. The sheets had way more blood which
would not possibly be from a woman's menstrual cycle. So
the cops think that he attacks are there's blood, and
then at some point he starts to strangle over the
green cord. Now the green cord had no DNA evidence
(23:07):
on it, but police didn't find it for months, so
Dave could have easily cleaned it up after the murder.
And if that theory is true, that meant Dave sat
with Shaunty's body for hours before calling. Think about that.
The cops believed that Dave passed the time doing very
mundane chores like cleaning the house and literally walking the dogs,
(23:28):
all while his wife was dead upstairs. We pulled some
audio from a phone called Dave had with his mom
while in jail to give you some insight into his
frame of mind. Take a listen. You should be taking
care of your own stuff. I can't shouldn't be in jail,
but you shouldn't be in jail. But we can't change
that if that's not my fault. It's not your fault
(23:49):
that you're in jail. No, I didn't do anything. It's
not my fault. So why did they put you in jail? Then? Who?
You understand? Because there's something we have to go through
until we can done with it. We already talked about this, right,
I don't remember anymore. I didn't think that I would
ever have to be that you would be in jail
and I would have to be doing your Why didn't
(24:12):
think I would either, So comm you should then that
you're not doing you're really not doing. You shouldn't be there.
I didn't do anyva. It's not my fault. Okay, then
why are you there? Because sometimes you have to defend yourself.
You can really hear the frustration and contempt in his
mom's voice, and to me, it sounds like Dave's just
(24:32):
going through the motions when he denies any wrongdoing. As
of late, the trial in which Dave pled not guilty,
has been delayed several times due to COVID and other factors. However,
in January, Dave was found incompetent to stand trial. A
(24:55):
judge ruled that he was unfit to proceed after two
medical experts conducted psychological all evaluations on him and determined
he was schizophrenic. Instead of facing trial for the savage
murder of Shanty, Dave will be sent to a state
hospital where he will receive treatment for his mental health.
(25:17):
Shameless plug. If you're enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us
a review and listen to season three of our hit
series The Piked and Massacre. New episodes there every Wednesday
wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow
us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. Crazy and Love
is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves and
(25:41):
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa.
Crazy in Love is a production of I Heart Radio
and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,
Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
because the story starts out with once upon a Times
doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
(00:21):
and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Today's guests are true crime producers Stephanie Ldiger and Jeff Shane.
Episode thirty six, The Case of the Renovation, The Ring,
and the Double Life. The house at to East Copeland
(00:45):
Drive was almost square feet. It had a pool, a garage, apartment,
a fireplace, and five bathrooms. Located just a mile from
downtown Orlando, Florida, in the upscale neighborhood of Delaney Park,
it was known for its great schools and expansive gardens.
The property should have been any couple's dream home, but
(01:10):
for Chanty and Dave Tronas, the Spanish style mansion became
a place of secrets, lies, and unimaginable terror. Five years
before the tragedy that would transpire, Shanty and Dave were
mere strangers who began chatting on match dot Com. Shanty
was thirty four and living in the Orlando area. Dave
(01:31):
was ten years her senior and located up in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Despite their distance, the pair fell to connection. Shanty was
a hard working, dedicated single mother who cared deeply about
her eight year old son. Dave was intelligent and charming.
The couple also bonded over the shared experiences of complicated divorces.
(01:55):
Dave and Shanty fell hard for each other fast with
In just months of meeting, Dave packed up and moved
to Florida to be with Shaunty. One email she wrote
to him sums up the early days of their relationship well, quote, Dave,
I will have to say, I think this will be
a delicious detour, an amazing, life changing detour. I've had
(02:20):
a pep in my steps since we started this little
email affair. In February, Shaunty and Dave got married with
the stunning fifteen thousand dollar diamond ring. Here's Stephanie. So
here's what we know about them when they first met.
Within months of becoming a couple, Dave moved hundreds of
(02:41):
miles to Florida. He loved the area and bought a
house at two hundred and eighteen East Copeland Drive for
six hundred and seven thousand, five hundred dollars with cash.
According to the real estate agent who sold him the house,
Dave was like a child when you bought the home.
He was desperate and wanted to get the deal done.
(03:01):
It was sort of off putting to her that he
was so pushy, but also anyone who bought a home
can relate to the feeling of just wanting to close
that deal. But that said, paying cash for a house
is pretty difficult. Jeff, what did the couple do? Shaunty
and Dave were both very successful. She ran a fruitful
financial software business and was able to work from home,
(03:22):
and Dave had recently inherited between four and six million
dollars from his father, so that would explain why he
was able to pay cash for the house. And so
I think because they were both maybe business minded, they
decided to keep their finances very separate. Dave paid for
the house and didn't end up putting Shaunty on the deed.
And while at first this worked, it became kind of
(03:43):
a hot button issue because Shaunty actually moved into the
home and that's not all. The couple started an expansive
remodel on the home, and because David paid for the
home and cash, Shaunty agreed to flip the bill for
the remodel under the guys that she would eventually be
added to the deep Dave asked his neighbor for her
advice on the remodel. Take a listen. He was asking
me specifically about raising the floor in the living room
(04:06):
to match the kitchen. And I thought, that's a major,
major problem because the doors back there you'd have to
bring you'd have to replace all those doors, You'd have
to bring those all up to the right height. And
I thought, why would you do that? I mean, I
could understand. I told him, I said, if you want
your kitchen bigger, bring the kitchen floor out further and
(04:28):
make the breakfast area smaller. But to raise the whole
floor up, to me seemed a little ludicrous. I mean,
it just seemed crazy. Did it seem as you're looking
around the house and he's explaining what they want to do,
that it was going to be expensive. Oh, I mean
I could tell it was going to be expensive. I
mean there was no that was not And at that point, um,
(04:50):
I mean, that's where they were already was like a
two dollar renovation minimum. When you hear that, it just
seems like Dave didn't care about the cost. He was
on a roll. If the neighbor, who didn't really know
the specifics of the job could tell it would be
that expensive, it must have been pretty bad. I can't
imagine Shanty, a hard working single mom, would have loved
(05:10):
that not only was her home such a mess, but
that she was also paying for all of it at
the same time. It would ultimately turn into a life
altering redot. Shanty and Dave had big plans for the house.
They wanted to open up the main living space and
redo every bathroom and bedroom. The house was torn down
to the studs and the budget ballooned. Like many homeowners
(05:34):
who attempt a renovation, Shanty and Dave found themselves in
over their heads. Here's Jeff, So, like we said, since
Day paid for the house, Shanty fronted the costs for
the HNO, but that again became a problem when the
costs for the remodel reached two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
And remember, Shanty wasn't even on the d to the house,
(05:56):
so while she was investing all this money into the home,
it wasn't even hers. So the deed to a house
staff correct me if I'm wrong, is really just states
who the owner of the home is. So if something
were to happen to Dave, let's say, Shaunty, would have
no steak in the property because she's not on the deed.
Or moreover, I believe that if Dave decided overnight that
(06:17):
he wanted to sell the property, he wouldn't need her
permission to do so. And suddenly she's put two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars into a home that she could
frankly be asked to leave or not benefit from the
sale of the house. Right So she's investing to make
this property worth much more than it already is and
not going to see any of the returns. A neighbor
(06:37):
spoke about the dynamics of the relationship. What was your
observations with Dave and jacks Um, Dave was always very
nice to Jackson. He treated like his own son. He
seemed very concerned with his well being. UM like, I
know that he They didn't like Jackson's teacher this year.
I don't know if it was so much Shaunty, I
(06:58):
don't know, but Day would always say you don't like Mrs.
It's not the right fit for Jackson. I think Mrs
was more free form. He needs structure, you know. And
and for Dave to be that concerned about Jackson, I
thought was unusual, you know, because it's not your child,
but he talked to him as if it was his
own child. We were also never able to figure out
(07:21):
what Dave did. By all counts, he was unemployed and
seemingly living off of the big inheritance he said his
dad left for him. It's interesting, though, that the impression
the couple was giving was that Shanty was the sole
provider and supporting Dave. I suppose I could see how
it would seem that way, since Shanty worked all day
and Dave just sort of hung around. After three years
(07:41):
of construction and many contractors later, the house on East
Copeland Drive was no closer to being completed. It had
become so unlivable that Shaunty and Dave began sleeping in
the garage apartment. According to their last contractor, the rehynot
was causing a strain on the couple and things were tense.
Shanty was displeased with the time and money being spent,
(08:05):
and the fact that her husband would not change the deed.
But on Aeen at three fifteen PM, all of that
would seem irrelevant. Nine one one operators in Delaney Park
received this call. Hello, tried to do can you get
(08:33):
her out of the shower? Okay? Is she laying from
on the back? Okay? And you don't know what happened
here or when anything happened? Okay. Through guttural sobs, Dave
(08:58):
told paramedics he had found his wife unresponsive in the bathtub.
When the police arrived, Shaunty was dead. Dave told the
detectives that he had been out for a walk with
the dogs and when he came home, he found Shaunty
in the tub. Oddly, police noticed there were no signs
of a struggle or fourth entry. While five thousand dollars
(09:23):
in cash and Shaunty's beautiful fifteen thousand dollar engagement ring,
we're missing. Many other valuables such as computers, watches, and
phones were not taken. With very little to go on,
police turned to Dave for answers. Davis brought in for
questioning and it began what would turn into a marathon
(09:46):
fourteen hour interrogation. Very quickly, he refused a lawyer, so
the cops were free to ask him anything and everything
they wanted and asked him. They did listen to Dave
describe what he found when he discovered Shaunty in the bathtub.
She's submerged partially, but she's also partially not submerged and
(10:08):
kind of sticking up a little. And it's just extremely
it's awful and it doesn't look natural. Obviously she or
something happened. They try to pick her up, she's she's
(10:28):
it's hard to pick her up. She's met stick a
sack of potatoes. It's easy. It just to me sounds
so methodical and cold. I mean, at one point he
describes her as a sack of potatoes. To me, that
seems like a very odd way to describe your now
deceased wife when you find her in the tub. That's
not the only thing that was odd. The cops also
(10:49):
found it strange that, despite telling them he found her
in the bathtub and immediately calling them on one, the
bathroom was completely dry when they arrived, and Shanty was
only damp, not wet, So then that just didn't that up. Yeah,
that was a big piece to this case. There was
also some blood found on the bed frame. Dave theorized
that it could have been from Shaunty's menstrual cycle, so
(11:11):
the question would have been who would possibly want to
hurt the compassionate and successful mother. The detectives just decided
to ask Dave outright, have a listen, any problems? Yeah, okay,
anyone that want to do her home? At the talent
(11:33):
of the interrogation, the cops tried to coax a confession
out of Dave, but he continued to deny murdering his wife.
You either man a mistake, you're cool boy kill which
may We also know that Shaunty had a two hundred
and fifty thousand dollar life insurance policy and that Dave
was the beneficiary, But the missing ring in the cash
(11:55):
was always sort of odd and didn't completely add up. Meaning,
if day I've wanted to hurt Shaunty, why would he
take that? There really would be no reason other than
if he was looking to stage it or make the
scene look as though it was a robbery. Right, But
if he was really trying to make it look like
a robber, you think he would have taken the cell
phones or the computers, or the watches or the earrings.
(12:17):
But it seems very pointed to me that just this
large amount of cash and the ring were taken. I
mean to me. You know, we talk a lot about
whether you should lawyer her up or not law your up,
and it seems like whether or not you did something
or you didn't do something, having a lawyer is always
a smart move, especially when you know the cops are
looking at you for talking to you for fourteen hours.
(12:38):
You're bound to say something that will frame you in
a bad light or give something up that you don't
want to give up. I mean, obviously the cops thought
he was the lead suspect at this time that they're
talking to be fourteen hours. They had nothing else to
go off of at this point, and he refused a
lawyer because in some cases that does look bad if
you're suddenly feeling as though you need counsel to discuss
(12:58):
a scene that you just walked into. I can see
both sides of that, right, I mean, for fourteen hours.
If he doesn't crack after fourteen hours, perhaps he really
doesn't have anything to hide. And of course he wants
to find the murderer, so theoretically he's going to say
everything and anything he knows so that the police could
get off of him as a main suspect and onto
(13:19):
finding the person who is still at large with Dave A. Freeman.
The police looked at other suspects. First was Shanty's ex husband.
They had a bitter divorce and shared custody of their son.
Could he have killed her to get control of their child?
Police also honed in on a local homeless man who
was known to hang around to Leaney Park. Do you
(13:42):
recognize her? No? Right? Have you ever seen her before? No? No? Okay?
You ever spoken to her or nothing? No? Okay? Do
you recognize this fan? No? I don't. All right, I'm
showing him a picture of David Michael Old Churnis and
have you ever had a conversation with him? For any reason?
(14:05):
I'm out here to something in the morning is because
I needed to ask you whether or not, um you
had been in her home or seen her or harmed
her in any way. Have you ever been in her home?
Have you ever harmed her in any way? Okay? Did
you kill her? No? No? Would you have any reason
(14:25):
to the police were very thorough with their investigation. We
know they looked at Shanty's acts husband and a local
homeless man, but they were ultimately able to clear them
both because they had airtight allillies. So naturally, the investigators
look back at Dave and kind of what he has
going on in his life, and when they started going
through his credit card statements, they found one thing that
(14:47):
struck them as strange. On his statement, he had a
recurring thirty five dollar payment to a place called the
Club or Lando. And it turns out the Club Orlando
is a men's gym, but is known to host some
more toward activities than average twenty four hour fitness. Yeah,
this is a very confusing topic because, on the one hand,
we know that Dave is married, so why would he
(15:07):
be paying for a membership at a men's hook up Jim.
That said, it's also quite possible he was just going
to the gym to work out that also happened to
be a hook up Jim, he didn't necessarily have to
partake in that. Yeah, it's interesting because you can look
at these two things as separate issues or potentially related.
On the one hand, he might not have been doing anything,
(15:30):
that's one possibility, or he might have been actually going
and hooking up with guys, and that might not have
to do with the murder of his wife. But it
does tell us that maybe he's being deceitful to either
the police because he didn't tell him upfront that he
is cheating on his wife, or he's being deceitful to
Shanti because he's lying to her about what he's doing
(15:51):
outside of their marriage. In any case, it is circumstantial evidence,
but it does point to maybe his character and calls
into question what he's saying. Is that because he's clearly
not being truthful, that's exactly right. It does paint a
picture of him that's simply not favorable. We're going to
take a break. We'll be back in just a moment.
(16:25):
So much of these cases are not necessarily about physical evidence,
but what the police perceive as your character and the
type of person that you are. And whether he's lying
to the police or he's lying to his wife, it
certainly doesn't make him look like a good person, right,
And to that end, the two don't necessarily go hand
in hand. Just because he's maybe stepping out and either
(16:47):
exercising at the gym or exercising at the gym and
stepping out on his marriage. Again, that doesn't make him
a murderer or a murderer of Shaunty specifically, as police
looked at all the pieces to a puzzle, everything led
back to Dave. One he had motive. Financially he stood
(17:07):
to gain with Shaunty dead personally, she might have been
enraged over his extramarital activities. Two he had opportunity. Dave
was admittedly the last person to see her alive. This
was enough to make an arrest, and on August, four
months after Shanty's death, Dave was officially charged with her murder.
(17:31):
Dave had been staying at his mother's house, and when
the police searched his things, they found the supposedly missing
ring in a suitcase. To them, it was the nail
in Dave's coffin. Finding the ring was a very big
deal and a break in the case, and as the
prosecution built their case, detectives got a tip that would
(17:54):
send them right back to where it all began. A
former friend of Dave's in Minnesota said that Dave had
been poisoning his ex wife, a woman named Carol. In Minnesota,
detectives learned that Carol had in fact suffered from a
series of health issues. She always spoke about chronic pain
and gut issues, and she also acknowledged to police that
(18:15):
Dave cooked most of her meals. Listen to this, who
cooked in the home? We both did? He primarily cooked
in the home um in the early days. I I
don't remember. I think he might have done a lot
of the cooking. He's a better cook than I. You
mentioned the chef thinks, so that makes sense that he
(18:38):
was inspiring chef after that three m He did a
lot of the cooking early on. I don't know if
we did a lot of it, but I mean he
I honestly don't remember the meals. Okay, such an odd description. Now,
listen to the cops when they asked Carol directly if
(19:00):
Dave was poisoning her, would there have been any reason
to believe that you could have been given something poisoned,
given certain supplements, things along those lines that could have
caused any of the medical issues. But how does this
all play into Shaunty's story. Eight weeks before her dath,
Shahnty had an emergency appenducting me. As it turns out,
appendicitis and poisoning have very similar symptoms, So the theory
(19:23):
was that potentially Dave had been poisoning his ex wife
Carol and his current wife Shaunty. He even admitted in
his interrogation that Shaunty had digestion problems. She hasn't found
since the appendant me that she can eat regularly and
feel good. While it seemed very possible that Dave had
(19:44):
a pattern of poisoning the women he supposedly loved, detectives
just could never really prove it. Shaunty's autopsy was very clear.
It said that she died of strangulation and blunt force trauma.
And while this whole theory about the poison was creeping
and very weird, it essentially took a backseat. While in Minnesota,
(20:06):
detectives also made another discovery about Dave's deceptions. So we
know that Dave had told Shaunty he inherited four to
six million dollars from his dad. It was how he
paid cash for the house, But it turned out that
was a lot. He never inherited any money, and he
most likely used all his savings to pay for the
house in cash. Why would he lie about that, Deshaunty?
(20:26):
I wonder if it was because Shanty was successful and
had her own money and Dave wanted to seem like
he did too, and he didn't need her for her money.
He wanted to appear independently wealthy. Eleven months after the murder,
another twist would shock investigators. Dave's former defense attorney, who
made since replaced, turned in a set of bloody sheets
(20:48):
and a green cord to the police. According to the lawyer,
he had acquired the items from the garage apartment after
the murder. However, he never turned them into police or
the prosecution. Could the sheets prove Dave killed Shaunty in
their bedroom, was the green cord the murder weapon? As
(21:09):
the lawyer was investigated for withholding key evidence. Please got
another shocking phone call. Dave's cellmate came forward with quite
a story. The cellmate told officials that they bonded over
their love of obscure hallucinogens, including one that came from
a frog. According to the cell mate, Dave said he
(21:31):
could use frog poison to kill someone. He also said
that Dave confessed to murder. The cellmates said that Dave
told him Shanty found a gay hook up app on
his phone and completely freaked out. They had a big fight,
he blacked out and then he killed her and While
all of this sound plausible, including the whole frog thing,
(21:53):
it couldn't be corroborated and there were no records of
Dave having any app like that on his phone. So ultimately,
while intr staying, the cellmate story was dismissed, let's stop
here for another break. So will cops couldn't do anything
(22:23):
with the cellmate story. They still had these bloody sheets
and the green cord to look out, So let's just
talk this through. According to the police, what happened that night.
Police think that Shanty is sitting there getting ready for bed,
taking her earrings out as you would, and she had
one earring out, one on the nightstand, and that's when
Dave came up behind her and attacked her. The attack
(22:45):
would explain the blood that was found not only on
the sheets, but also the bed frame. You know, the
same bed frame that Dave thought was just her period
blood on it. The sheets had way more blood which
would not possibly be from a woman's menstrual cycle. So
the cops think that he attacks are there's blood, and
then at some point he starts to strangle over the
green cord. Now the green cord had no DNA evidence
(23:07):
on it, but police didn't find it for months, so
Dave could have easily cleaned it up after the murder.
And if that theory is true, that meant Dave sat
with Shaunty's body for hours before calling. Think about that.
The cops believed that Dave passed the time doing very
mundane chores like cleaning the house and literally walking the dogs,
(23:28):
all while his wife was dead upstairs. We pulled some
audio from a phone called Dave had with his mom
while in jail to give you some insight into his
frame of mind. Take a listen. You should be taking
care of your own stuff. I can't shouldn't be in jail,
but you shouldn't be in jail. But we can't change
that if that's not my fault. It's not your fault
(23:49):
that you're in jail. No, I didn't do anything. It's
not my fault. So why did they put you in jail? Then? Who?
You understand? Because there's something we have to go through
until we can done with it. We already talked about this, right,
I don't remember anymore. I didn't think that I would
ever have to be that you would be in jail
and I would have to be doing your Why didn't
(24:12):
think I would either, So comm you should then that
you're not doing you're really not doing. You shouldn't be there.
I didn't do anyva. It's not my fault. Okay, then
why are you there? Because sometimes you have to defend yourself.
You can really hear the frustration and contempt in his
mom's voice, and to me, it sounds like Dave's just
(24:32):
going through the motions when he denies any wrongdoing. As
of late, the trial in which Dave pled not guilty,
has been delayed several times due to COVID and other factors. However,
in January, Dave was found incompetent to stand trial. A
(24:55):
judge ruled that he was unfit to proceed after two
medical experts conducted psychological all evaluations on him and determined
he was schizophrenic. Instead of facing trial for the savage
murder of Shanty, Dave will be sent to a state
hospital where he will receive treatment for his mental health.
(25:17):
Shameless plug. If you're enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us
a review and listen to season three of our hit
series The Piked and Massacre. New episodes there every Wednesday
wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow
us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. Crazy and Love
is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves and
(25:41):
me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Twa.
Crazy in Love is a production of I Heart Radio
and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!