The Theory of "Odinism" Filed in Delphi Murders Case, Richard Allen Appeals His Conviction |11AM 11.11.25

On Monday, a new collection of evidence, previously unseen outside the courtroom, was submitted as part of Richard Allen's efforts to overturn his conviction for the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Alaric hourly update, Breaking crime News Now.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Nicole Parton. On Monday, a new collection of evidence,
previously unseen outside the courtroom was submitted as part of
Richard Allen's efforts to overturn his conviction for the murders
of Abby Williams and Libby Jerman. The two friends were
murdered in twenty seventeen near a hiking trail in Delphi,

(00:24):
and their killer remained unidentified until Allan's arrest in twenty
twenty two, leading to his conviction a year ago. This week,
the newly submitted evidence was requested by Allan's Uphellate team,
which stated it needs this information to support its appeal.
Allan's defense faced a significant setback when Judge Fran Gull

(00:46):
ruled that his lawyers were barred from presenting any evidence
during the trial that suggested an alternative suspect. The defense
had intended to argue that the girls were victims of
a ritualistic killer by individuals practicing a religion called Odinism. However,
Judge Gould determined there was insufficient evidence to establish a

(01:09):
connection between these alleged third party suspects and the crime.
Now the twelve thousand pages of documents released on Monday
stem from the Frank's hearing conducted in September twenty three,
and includes substantial evidence related to the odinism theory, along
with depositions from key investigators. Among the exhibits are post

(01:31):
from Brad Holder, a confirmed odinist who was investigated in
connection to the case. Notably, Holder's son was friends with Abby.
Included in the submitted materials is a photograph of a
large branch covering two individuals, which bears a resemblance to
the layout of the crime scene. Additionally, there is a

(01:52):
painting by Holder that mirrors the positioning of one of
the girl's bodies, as well as several posts featuring symbols
created with sticks. Allen's defense claims that the sticks found
at the crime scene were intentionally arranged on the girl's
bodies to form odinist symbols. Crime Scene investigator and host

(02:12):
of the hit podcast Zone seven My Friend Cheryl McCollum
weighs in.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
The new quote evidence out in the Delphi case regarding
odinism still does not hold up. Let's start with the
most basic White supremacists don't kill white children. Number two
there's nothing about this crime scene that looks like it

(02:38):
was prepared beforehand, which for a ritual you would number three.
The symbols that they're claiming made out of the sticks
are not norse. There's nothing about this oldness theory that
has any facts to it.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Defense attorney John Tompkins set in part, keep in mind
investigators initially believed there were two assailants, releasing sketches of
them and soliciting the public's help to identify those individuals,
neither of whom turned out to be the eventual defendant.
His attorney said he has been closely following the case

(03:19):
and believes that contesting Judge goals ruling to exclude this
evidence will be a pivotal point in Allan's appeal. He continued,
the jury must grasp that this was not a case
involving a single perpetrator and that Allan was not the
first person that should have been pursued. Count On Kremelert
hourly update to keep you posted as this appeal unfolds

(03:43):
for Crime and Justice News After this and now to Florida,
where a woman in fifty nine year old Barbara Bates,
was reportedly under significant financial stress due to family challenges
and her so un healthy issues, specifically his Asperger syndrome.

(04:04):
In a tragic turn of events, she and her husband,
Neil Bates sixty four, entered into a suicide pack with
their adult son, who they claim had suggested the idea. Fortunately,
all three survived the ordeal. Unfortunately, the mother is now
facing criminal charges. According to statements from the Lee County
Sheriff's Office, Barbara admitted to detectives that she had been

(04:27):
plotting to end her family's lives for several months and
had attempted to acquire a firearm without success. She allegibly
obtained sleeping pills, intending to distribute them among her family members,
and used a sharp object to inflict wounds on her
husband and son with the aim of ending her life too.

(04:47):
Barbara insisted that Neil was complicit in their plan, claiming
he agreed and they should all die together. However, Neil
asserted that their son was the one who expressed a
desire to die, and that they eventually reached a consensus
to participate in the suicide attempt. He described their son
as intelligent, but noted his inability to live independently due

(05:10):
to episodes of poor judgment. Facing imminent eviction and fearing homelessness,
Barbara concocted a plan for her family to take their
lives together before being forced from their home. She purchased
alcohol and sleeping pills for the occasion, and even organized
a final meal and movie night. On November three. She
bought steak for dinner and chose the horror film The

(05:32):
Long Walk for their last viewing experience. During the film,
Neil drank alcohol while their son ingested a handful of
sleeping pills given to him by Barbara. After the movie,
Neil retrieved a box cutter and inflicted a cut on
his own neck. Barbara then intervened, believing the cut was insufficient,

(05:52):
and cut Neil's throat before turning her attention to her son,
stabbing him in the neck. After a period of monitoring
the situation, Barbara, losing patience, began to harm herself. She
waited over half an hour to be sure they could
not be revived by emergency responders, and then called nine
to one one to report the incident. When deputies arrived,

(06:13):
they found the family in distress, with Barbara still conscious
and expressing frustration that help had arrived too soon. The
three were rushed to the hospital, where the son recounted
the harrowing experience to detectives. He described lying next to
his father as Neil cut his wrist, and how he
panicked when he saw his mother cut his throat, ultimately

(06:35):
deciding he no longer wanted to go through with the pack.
Neil later insisted that their son had been the primary
instigator of their suicide plan, claiming he had been pressuring
them into self harming. He expressed regret for following through
with the plan, acknowledging that they had all acted irrationally
that night. In explaining the family's turmoil, Barbara cited various stressors,

(06:59):
including her son's condition, a job loss, the looming eviction
from their home. Medical professionals treated all three for their injuries,
with expectations for their recovery being positive. Despite surviving the attempt,
Barbara allegedly expressed to police at the hospital that she
wished their plan had succeeded and showed no signs of remorse.

(07:20):
Barbara Bates faces charges of attempted murder and aggravated child abuse,
while Neil is charged with criminal attempt to commit a
life of felony and aggravated abuse of a disabled adult.
Both remain in custody without bond. For the latest crime
injustice news, follow Crime Alert hourly update on your favorite
podcasting app with this crime Alert. I'm Nicole Parton.