November 13, 2019 • 39 mins
Two girls stab their best friend 19 times. Why? They wanted to appease the fictional horror character, Slender Man. Both girls are serving time in a mental health facility. After an attorney files an appeal, there's a chance both girls could walk free.
Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case:
- Ashley Wilcott - Judge and trial attorney
- Jeff Cortese - Former Special Agent FBI
- Dr. Bethany Marshall- Psychoanalyst
- Karen Smith- Forensic Expert of Bare Bones Consulting
- Levi Page- CrimeOnline reporter
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I don't know how the twins, my twelve year old
twins and know about this, but they know who slender
Man is. They don't know a lot about him, but
they know he's a tall, ghoulish, eerie looking thin, very
pale man dressed in a suit, and he gets slaves
or minions to follow him. How do they know this? Well,
(00:29):
this is what I know about slender Man. The sci
fi character was the inspiration for the brutal stabbing assault
on a little girl at the hands I've her two
so called besties, her best friends. The scary part slender
(00:51):
Man lives. This is crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace. Thank
you for being with us. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace.
(01:13):
What's the address your emergency CONI line and transmember? A
caller on Big Bend at the dead End just south
of RIVERA. Okay, you upon a twelve year old email
two peers of being stabbed. She appears to be with stapped, stabbed. Okay,
sorry still there? Yes, hi, sir, so is are you
with this twelve year old female? Yeah? She says she's
(01:35):
having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.
They have multiple times? Yeah, Okay, Sir, are you with
her right now? Yes? Is she awake? She's awake. Is
she breathing? Yeah, she's breathing. She said she can take
shallow breath. She's alert. Okay, stay with her. We're sending
the police department. Don't hang up. Okay, hold on, JA minute,
(01:58):
don't hang up. Okay, okay, well nice minutes that we're
setting officers. Is there any assailant around? I didn't even look.
I don't see anybody. Okay, stay stay right with her, Sir.
Is she on the ground or she standing up? No,
she's laying on the grass. Is there any bleeding going on?
Her clothing has got blood on it. Where are the wounds?
Did you see where the wounds are? No? I don't
(02:21):
know if I should be rolling her over and checking
or not. Do you know where? Okay, just stay with
her and just let me know if she's conscious or
alert or stop spreed anthing. Hold on, I'm going to
talk to the ambulance. Police are also in route. Okay.
So you see any active bleeding or blood spurting out
or anything like that. No, unless it's underneath or I
just see dried blood. Okay, just dried blood. Okay, you
(02:42):
are hearing a nine one one call. That becomes even
more chilling when you realize the victim is a twelve
year old little girl. I mean, I see grace. This
is crib stories. In the Last Days, the victim speaks out.
Let's Stour. Friends at t MJ four are told police
planning the attack made her scared, but she wanted to
(03:03):
prove Slenderman skeptics wrong. I would I would never my
family again. I was how Geyser says. The victim Peyton
had been her best friend for years. She says she
didn't choose Peyton, but went along with it. Leave down
her good time. Ima, I am wanting to hurt people before,
(03:34):
but they're not nice to me, a little girl saying before,
I wanted to hurt people and they deserved it. Two girls,
Morgan Geyser and Anissa were Could they possibly have lured
their twelve year old little best friend out into the
woods and then stabbed her, leaving her for dad. That's
(03:57):
what police are reporting, and in the Last Days, the
little girl who miraculously survives, Peyton Laudner speaks out, joining
me an all star panel. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney
in the New York, New Jersey area. Cloyd Steiger, thirty
six years of the Seattle Police Department, twenty two years
(04:18):
homicide detective, author of Homicide The View from Inside the
Yellow Tape. You can find him at Cloyd Steiger dot com.
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, Renown forensic psychiatrist, doctor Daniel Bober
joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction right now to
(04:38):
Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, take
me back to the night this little girl was stabbed
multiple times, left for dead, bleeding out, left to quote,
bleed out in the woods. You'd think it was a
sex offender, a registered sex offender, a pedophile, a maniac.
(04:59):
But it turns it's two little girls. Yes. Nancy May
twenty fourteen, Morgan Geyser is celebrating her birthday. She had
turned twelve, and she invited two of her classmates, her
friend Peyton Lutner and Anissa Weir, who are also twelve,
over to her home. They went skating, They ate frozen yogurt.
(05:20):
They had a slumber party. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop
right there, Jason Oceans. You know what it is. It's
time for the twins birthday parties. Now they want separate parties,
separate parties, things like Levi Pace just said Jason, skating,
birthday cakes, manicures, pedicures for the little girls, laser tag
(05:44):
for the little boys. But this is just like every
other kid's birthday party. Jason Oceans. You've got two children,
You've lived through it, no doubt about it. And happy
birthday to the twins, and the yes challenge has become great.
Don't try to butter me up, Jason Oceans. It's attorney.
Nothing's going to change. Battle Nancy always the prosecutors, So
I mean it makes it worse to me. Joseph Scott Morgan,
(06:07):
You've lived through plenty of trials, as have you. Cloyd Steiger.
When it's a wolf in sheep's clothes, Joe Scott that
this was supposed to be an innocent, fun birthday party
for a little twelve year old girls. I mean, really, yeah,
you would think that they'd be completely and totally safe.
But yeah, and your defenses are down. Wouldn't you think
(06:29):
twelve years old, who's going to expect that this kind
of behavior is going to rise up among what would
seemly be a few innocent little children. I mean Cloyd
Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide detective.
I mean, I've seen plenty of twelve year old killers.
I'm not proud of it, but I had to do
a stint in juvenile But usually they're twelve year old
(06:51):
going on twenty five dopers, you know, getting their parents drugs,
mental issues that nobody knew about those types of killings
by twelve year olds. But two little suburban twelve year
old girls having a birthday party. Really, have you ever
seen anything like that, Chloy, because I have not. I've
(07:12):
never seen a thing of the twelve year old. I've
seen something very similar with some like sixteen year old
boys were like, you know, not criminal boys that lured
one of their friends into the woods and killed them
because they're an argument over a girl. But this is
really an anomaly. And like I said, I've arrested I
think the youngest I've arrested is thirteen, but that was
a gang bang thing, you know, and a long history
of violence before that, So it's really unusual. A lot
(07:34):
different from a little girl sleepover in suburbia. To doctor
Daniel Bober, it's like when, let me just compare it
to a little low lady you pass in the street
and she's got a walk or and she pulls out
an oozy on you and takes your money and runs.
You don't see it coming that, I'm what am I
trying to say? Put it in forensic psychiatric words. Well,
(07:56):
I ask you, it's a little bit different than an
old lady. A twelve year old doesn't really have the
compath to make those types of I'm saying, you don't
see it coming, Bober. I know there's a difference in
a little old lady and a twelve year old girl.
What I'm saying is the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing. Bobra. Yeah, well,
I agree with you. You You definitely don't see it coming things.
It's not something you would ever see coming. I agree
with you on that. Wait, you're the renowned forhysics psychiatrist
(08:20):
and you're takeaway is, yeah, Nancy, is something you don't
see coming. That's it. I've already said that, doctor Bober.
You're gonna have to think of something impressive and psychiatric
right now. Well, let me just say that if it
was something we would see coming, then this wouldn't even
be a story that we'd be talking about. But the point,
but my point is is that it's something that you
(08:41):
would not expect that of a twelve year old, but
when it happens, it's something that you is explainable by
the fact that they don't really have the capacity to
waigh the future consequences of their actions. Well, you're certainly
right about that, Levi pagec. All you had to do
was say skating rink and everything went sideways. Let's just
go back to the party. What happened. So the night
they had a sleepover, and after the sleepover, in the morning,
(09:04):
the three girls went to the park. They went for
a walk, and this was Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weir's
idea to go for a walk. So they went out
into the woods and while they were in the woods,
they were playing hide and seek, or they were pretending
to play hide and seek, and they told Peyton Lautner
to lay down in the in the leaves and that
(09:26):
they were going to hide. Well, instead, Morgan Geyser pulled
out a knife and stabbed her nineteen times. And this
is after they have as spend the night with a
little girl. The three of them besties take a listen
to our friend David Muir at ABC twenty twenty with
Angie Geysers, Morgan's mom. It's Friday night in Waukesha, Wisconsin,
(09:47):
a Milwaukee suburb. Peyton is getting ready to celebrate her
best friend, Morgan Geyser's birthday. At that slumber party, Peyton
was so so excited. The girls met in fourth grade.
Peyton drawn to Morgan because she was a loner who
needed a friend. I made friends with her when I
saw that she didn't have any friends at all. Also
at that sleepover, Anisa Wire, who was new to the
(10:09):
school and who had grown close to Morgan. They laid
up in Morgan's s bedroom, ran up and down the stairs,
giggling and laughing, and I mean it was just a
normal knife, but there was nothing normal about what happened.
The next morning, when Morgan and Anissa suggest they all
go to the park and then to the woods together,
(10:29):
Anissa told me to lie on the ground and like
cover myself and like sticks and leaves and stuff, But
it was really just a trick while playing hide and seek.
Then came a niece's command, and Morgan attacks Peyton with
a knife. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace be afraid. I'm
(11:00):
a real a little kitty Hatch jumped Fellas shot her
and do you remember when it started? Kind of I
didn't feel anything because my body was in shock, so
they told me to lay down, you'll lose blood. Slower like,
we're gonna go get help and try to get off.
(11:26):
She couldn't walk and that she couldn't breathe, and they
told her they were gonna go get her help, but
Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't getting to help. We
wanted her to die. It. Got up and then just
walked until I hit a patch of grass where I
can lay down. A bicyclist notices Peyton bloodied and lying
in the grass. He calls nine one one. You're hearing
(11:46):
our friends at ABC twenty twenty. That was David. We
were with Peyton along with Detective trus Sony. Did you
notice Joseph's got Morgan that the little victim, the twelve
year old Peyton says, oh, by the way, when you
hear them refer to Bella, that's her nickname. Peyton's nickname
is Bella. Did you hear her say I didn't feel anything?
What does that mean? Well? That means and she's actually
(12:08):
in some of her interviews she's gone on to say
that she was in shock. And I'm sure that that's
what's been conveyed to her because she would have asked, well,
why didn't I feel anything. It's a primal response that
we have to being attacked like this. And Nancy, this
little girl will stab nineteen times over a variety of
areas in her body, so after a period of time,
the body is beginning to shut down just so that
(12:29):
she's not going to feel this response. Man, I've always
heard of your body going into shock and you don't
feel things. You know, Jason, you and I've discussed this
many many times. Jason oceans with me, veteran defense attorney
in the Tristate area, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Jason,
(12:50):
I always wondered about my fiance when he was murdered.
You know, he was shot five times in the neck
that faced the head. I always hoped that he went
into shock and didn't understand or know what was happening,
that he was alive and then he was gone. But
I also know that when he got to the hospital,
(13:11):
even after all that, he was physically still alive. His
heart was still beating. So I guess it's a blessing
when people physically go into shock, for sure. Nancy, you know,
as the doctor said that that's a natural reaction, and
you know, you listen to the testimony of and you're
(13:33):
just you're shocked as well. You know, she reacted that way,
and the twelve year old scenario of what happened to her.
She explains it the only natural and in some way
a blessing that she doesn't feel that physical pain of
being stabbed nineteen times. You know, I've noticed it with
my daughter, Doctor Daniel Bibram a little Lucy the other day,
(13:56):
we tried, what a scene to take fat Boy for
a walk. I even had him on a leash. Somehow
he wiggled out. He's the Docs and mix. He wiggled
out of the leash. He took off running and got
between two rot wilders. He started the fight with two
rot wilders in between them, and I immediately take off,
(14:16):
which was completely wrong, but I instinctively tried to pull
him out from between the two rot wilders who basically
just ignored him, thank goodness. But he was, I guess,
fighting with himself, trying to egg them on. But I
turned back quickly because I yelled at the children, stay away,
go back, don't don't come over here. Lucy had just frozen.
She was still standing in the same position, holding the
(14:39):
leash in her hand, dangling. John David was jumping up
and down, yelling and running around in circles and trying
to come over. But Lucy froze. And I've noticed that,
doctor Bober, what is that instinct when you are in
shot and just freeze? Well, Nancy, they talked about fight
or flay, but it's really fight, flate or freeze, and
that's the freeze. And the freeze is sort of what
(15:01):
we called dissociation, where you're disconnected from your thoughts and
your emotions when you become too overwhelmed. That's what it is.
Floyd Siger with me twenty two years homicide detective, an
author of Homicide The View from Inside the Yellow Tape. Cloyd,
have you seen that on criminal scenes before, where witnesses
defenditis victims just freeze in the moment. I have several times,
(15:22):
and I've also talked to a lot of people who
have been stabbed and survived, and they said the same thing.
They didn't even know they were being stabbed. They thought
they were just being punched. And you know, fortunately I
could talk to some parents of a young girl that
was stabbed to death and tell them she probably didn't
suffer before she died, and that made a lot to
them because it is, I mean here all the time
I put it over my entire career. I didn't even
(15:45):
know it's being stabbed. I just thought it's being punished.
So I mean, that is a blessing. I've heard it too.
I have heard that too. Well, that is what this
little girl was saying, that she didn't feel anything at
the beginning. Listen, do you remember leaving the park to
go to the woods. They just wanted to a goal
on a walk and I didn't think much of it.
It's just a walk. It's in Waka Shot, Like what
(16:05):
bad stuff happens in Waka Shaw, Wisconsin. We're going to
play hie and Lisa told me to lie on the
ground and like cover myself in like sticks and leaves
and stuff. But it was really just a trick. I
br and they you and I whatever when you say
(16:27):
you want to I away. I've been now, I remember,
go crazy. Thank you? Yeah, what did you do that?
You told you that. When you hear them describe to
(16:50):
investigators and he's telling Morgan just to do it. I
think the word was gobalistic. Oh, I remember that. I
do remember them chatting right next to me while I
was just laying there, stabbed nineteen times and left by
her attackers to quote, bleed out dead in the woods.
The shock. Her attackers are two other twelve year old
(17:13):
little girls. In the last days, the victim, who miraculously
survived her mom says. Doctors claim that they found one
of the stab wounds about an eighth of an inch
from one of her arteries, an eighth of an inch
between life and death. How could two twelve year old
(17:35):
little besties do something like this? Listen to our friend
David Muir with Peyton after the stab. The name contains
the encourage you just lay down in the woods and rest.
For what they really wanted are going to do was
bleed out in the woods. And do you remember what
you said to them? I trusted you, and then they
told me to lay down. You'll lose blood slower if
(17:55):
we're gonna go get help. She couldn't walk and that
she couldn't and they told her they were gonna go
get her help, but Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't
getting help. We wanted her to die. Do you remember
the moment they left you? I think I remember them
(18:17):
running away, but I kind of just lay there for
a minute. You walked out of the woods, it, got up,
grabbed a couple of trees for support, I think, and
then just walked until I hit a patch of grass
where I could lay down. It's amazing that she had
the strength to do that with the injuries that she had.
When I told her that the girls were in custody,
(18:38):
it seemed to give her a sense of relief. The
girls were ultimately arrested for first degree at Tom Thomas side.
That's a very serious charge. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
(19:06):
it wasn't until we sat down and we started talking
with the girls that we really knew what was going
on that it was two twelve year old girls had
a planned for six months to kill their friends. You
don't often see this with adults, and to have this
happened between twelve year old is absolutely horrifying. Yeah, where
are you body now, Um, I thought it was still
(19:32):
stopped it crime. Did you think that she died? Yeah,
she is alive. Have you ever watched any of those interrogations.
I watched a little bit, but we should reaction. It
was a little shocking to me to see that they
had this big, huge plan that they had been working
(19:55):
on for months. A big, huge plan they had been
working on for months. A little girl has to spend
the night birthday party where there are other twelve year
old friends. The three of them go for a walk
and the two friends Marketing Geyser and Anissa were execute
a long planned scheme to murder Peyton lawn Or just
(20:16):
twelve years old, also known as Bella. You were hearing
our friend David Murror at twenty twenty speaking because in
the last days Peyton speaks out a huge plan that
they had for months. But why listen? This is where
the story takes another turn to a fictional character on
(20:39):
the internet that is all back now. A niece to
(21:15):
explained to me that to prove yourself worthy to slender
you would have to kill somebody. You have to kill
someone to go live with slender Man. You're hearing our
friend David murror and detectives during the investigation of the
attempt to stab little twelve year old Bella dead. Welcome
(21:38):
back home, Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you
for being with us. Leavi page with me crime online
dot com investigative journalist who is slender Man. So this
is a fictional character, Nancy, that is very prevalent in
creepy pasta communities and creepy pasta communities is like horror
stories that people tell on form like Reddit. It's very
(22:01):
popular there. And this is a guy that someone drew
an artist and he has a featureless face. He's tall, thin,
he's often wearing a suit. He looks very ghost like,
and he likes to stalk and traumatize children in these
creepy pasta stories. He also uses mind control to tell
them what to do. And apparently Morgan Geyser was obsessed
(22:25):
with slender Man. When law enforcement got a search warrant
for her room, they found drawings of slender Man. She
had researched him on the internet, had read creepy pasta
stories about him, and they also found that she had
been thinking about murder for a long time because months
in advance of this attack, she had searched on the
(22:48):
internet how to get away with murder. Well, there's everything
you need to show premeditation. To defense attorney Jason Oceans,
the girls tell police they were convinced murder their little
friend Peyton Lawtner known as Bella by slender Man. Slender
Man's not real, Jason, He's fictional. And how can both
(23:10):
girls have the same psychiatric delusion at the same time.
That's the same thing I keep talking about all of
Epstein's guards in the jail. How can they all fall
asleep at the same time and leave him to be
found dead? How can two little girls have the same
psychiatric break with reality? This was just their excuse for
(23:34):
murdering their little friend. They are murderers, and Nancy I
analogize this type of you know, mind control that the
young lady placed in the slender Man character to you know,
Jim Jones or any cult or David Koresh where people
(23:55):
are willing to not only to sacrifice themselves but their
children in belief. And those are adults, right, brain formed
out all the way by twenty two right and uh,
and these are adults with children, and you would think,
my god, you know, sacrifice yourself. How do you do
your children? It is it does shock the conscience that
this happened. Um and and and clearly from you know,
(24:18):
monitoring your children and you know, creepy pasta stories because
they're creepy with fun, but noticing some differences in your children.
We've being withdrawn or you know, just something more sinister. Uh,
is the responsibility of parenting. You can't just be disengaged
when your child has been having seemingly these thoughts, murderous
(24:42):
thoughts for so long. You've got to see a change
in your child. You just can't be an absenteep arrand
what about it? Do Dodger Daniel Bober joining me forensic
psychiatrists out of the Florida jurisdiction. Apparently the parents knew nothing,
had no idea anything was going on with their children. Yeah, Nancy,
you see this a lot. For example, I remember during
the Columbine shootings, parents had no idea that that Klebold
(25:07):
and Harris were stockpiling weapons in their own garage, Like,
they never bothered to check that there were weapons being
stockpiling their garage. So, unfortunately, this is something that happens
with parents. They just kind of give their kids. These
electronic babysitters like cell phones, and they are not really
paying attention to what's going on. But in regards to
what you said before, yes, of course the kids did
(25:28):
not have the same delusion. But sometimes when you get
two kids together and one of them has a more
dominant personality and more dominant traits, they will lead the
weaker kid to go along with their plan, even though
it's not something they would have done on their own.
Take a listen to this. I've never gone into an
interview so blind as I am in this one. I
(25:49):
thought that maybe this was all about a boy. This
is a fight about a boy. Okay, we didn't know
what these girls were going to tell us. What were
you trying to do with her? When you stand her
kill her? I'm right as to say it. We were
(26:09):
trying to kill her? Why did you pick? I didn't
you picture? Who? Picture whatever? I needed to were talking about?
My thought was why would she do this? Let's say, like,
(26:29):
who the heck is slender Man? To think that tune
twelve year olds would come up with something like this
and plan it out for six months. As soon as
I heard I knew that this was going to be
a Big Deal Clime Stories with Nancy Grace over my radio.
(27:02):
I heard that a twelve year old girl had been
stabbed about a mile and a half away from this location.
At one momentum Triends, remember, a caller on Big Ben
came upon a twelve year old email two peers of
me stabbed. She peers to be what stab stabbed. The
road that she was located on was Big Ben Road
at the dead end of that Peyton wasn't moving a
(27:24):
whole lot. As I approached her, I said, Hi, I'm
off sir Dan. Are you okay? And she said no,
And I said, okay, help is on the way. Just
stay right where you are. And as I got closer,
I started to see a little bit more blood, And
the closer I got, the more blood I saw. Somehow
she'd been able to pull herself out of those woods,
(27:44):
and in another moment of strength, she was able to
communicate with him. I asked her who did this, and
she told me her friend Morgan. I then asked her
where did this happen and she told me that happened
in the woods. She was the first one to reveal
that it was Morgan, her best friend, who was behind this.
(28:05):
You're hearing Officer Dan Klein speaking with twenty twenties David Muir.
Right now, these two girls, Morgan Geyser and Anissa were
in a mental institution, but now appealing that conviction. Are
they set to be released? Levi Page Crime Online dot
(28:26):
Com investigative reporter Levi. When the search warrant was executed
on Geyser and War's homes, what was found? So I
mentioned about the Internet searches on Morgan's computer that said
how to get away with murder? They had also found
mutilated dolls in her room that had the body parts
(28:47):
cut off of them. Oh, dear Lord in heaven did
Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics, an author
of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan,
this is right up your alley, speaking of forensics. Yeah, well, Nancy,
let me go to something real quick that you know,
we've talked about this, this obsession that these girls have
(29:09):
with slender Man, and they're doing his bidding and living
in this fantastical world where they're you know, they've got
to make some kind of I don't know, sacrifice this guy.
Let me tell you what's based in reality. What's based
in reality is this poor girl was subject to being
stabbed by five blade of five inches in length, and
(29:30):
she stabbed nineteen times. Nancy, her liver was actually clipped.
It passed through her pancreas it passed through her diaphragm,
and she was very close to dying. You know, I
did a calculation just a moment ago. Let's just say
that she only weighed eighty pounds twelve years old. You know,
she's gotten less than a gallon of blood in her body.
(29:51):
It is an absolute miracle that she survived. And I'm
just talking about the organs, not to mention all the
little peripheral stab wounds that she's just she had an
angel on her shoulder at that time. The injuries done
to this twelve year old little girl are overwhelming. But
listen to this after we're in geyser or tell detectives
(30:13):
they had to kill Bella to become Slender Man's servants.
We now know that when the jury decided the little
girls were mentally insane, we had a mental defect. This
means that every six months they can petition the court
to be released. Every six months, according to the victim's mom.
(30:40):
She says, the potential release of an assilla that methodically
planned and executed an attack on our little girl where
she was stabbed nineteen times puts the community and our
family at risk. Leave page. As a matter of fact,
they are appealing their treatment as an adults. Isn't that right?
(31:01):
You're correct, Nancy, But I'm wondering how that's going to
work out because they pleaded guilty. Anissa Weir took a
plea deal, and she put pleading guilty to a lesser
charge of attempted second degree intentional homicide as part of
her deal. A jury would hear her in insanity defense.
Then they were going to decide on whether or not
(31:23):
she would be responsible and sent to prison. Are not
guilty by a reason of a mental defect and sent
to a mental institution. They wanted to send her to
a mental institution so she didn't get sent to prison.
In twenty seventeen, a jury found her not guilty by
reason of a mental disease or defect and was sentenced
(31:44):
to a twenty five year commitment into a state institution.
And Morgan Geyser's lawyers also made a similar deal. She
pleaded guilty to attempted first degree intentional homicide, and prosecutors
agreed as part of this not to challenge her insanity defense.
And she was sentenced to forty years in a mental institution.
(32:06):
So how do you appeal something that you agreed to
as part of a plea deal. Well, you're actually correct
on that. In Jason Oceans, what they're arguing is they
should not have had a jury trial, a ben's trial,
or even a plea in adult court. That's correct, Nancy.
And you know, I'm just still torn as defense counsel
(32:27):
and father between these, you know, these two parallels, And
I guess the part of me that says that they're
not in prison but in a mental mental institution seems
to me more appropriate at this point in juncture. You know,
we can look at it again and see about mental rehabilitation,
but I wouldn't want them in population, even segregated. And
(32:50):
I think the ability to get mental health because at
twelve years old, to be lured into or dominated by
another twelve year old into evil, to me, shocks the system.
And for the older one, morgan more dominant in the
in the entire process and planning it out, and the
mutilated dolls. Yeah, an appropriate sentence. I'm just shocked. I
(33:15):
am too, and I hope this appeal doesn't work. DEPLOYD. Steiger,
twenty two years homicide detective, author of Homicide The view
from inside the Yellow Tape. When you commit a murder
at age twelve, or in this case, attempted murder, that's
a tough sell to be released back out into the community,
(33:36):
because if you're homicidal at that age, what are you
going to be like at twenty one. Yeah, that's just
the question. I mean, it really puts people at risk.
But first of all, I also wanted to say that
this police department, which is a relatively small policepartment, probably
not very experienced at homicide. They did a great job
from the patrol officer getting there asking appropriate questions, and
great job by both the detectives and their interviews and
(33:57):
the techniques they use, and the casualness in the setting
of the room. So, I mean, you know, people from
big cities New York, Los Angeles, they don't expect to
have a case like this, but when it is in
a suburban, smaller town, you think to be overwhelmed. But
they came, they stepped to the plate, But you're right
about that. I mean, how much risk you gonna take?
(34:18):
I mean, I'm a grandfather little girls, you know, I
wouldn't want them around anybody like this. So it's just
it's just a terrible case all the way around. Take
a listen to Peyton the victim, also known as Bella,
as she speaks out. Have you ever watched any of
those interrogations. I watched a little bit. What was your reaction.
It was a little shocking to me to see that
(34:40):
they had this big, huge plan that they had been
working on for months. Do you remember leaving the park
to go to the woods. They just wanted to go
on a walk, and I didn't think much of it.
It's just a walk. It's in Wakashaw, Like what bad
stuff happens in Wakashaw, Wisconsin. And Lisa told me to
lie on the ground owned and like cover myself in
(35:01):
like sticks and leaves and stuff. But it was really
just a trick. When you hear them describe to investigators
and he'sa telling Morgan just to do it, I think
that the word was globalistic. Oh, I remember that. I
do remember them chatting right next to me while I
was just lying there, and do you remember when it started?
(35:22):
Kind Of I didn't feel anything because my body was
in shock from the adrenaline. I didn't feel a thing.
Do you remember the moment they left you? I think
I remember them running away, but I kind of just
lay there for a minute. You walked out of the woods.
It got up, grabbed a couple of trees for support,
I think, and then just walked until I hit a
(35:43):
patch of grass where I could lay down. Wow to
doctor Daniel bober Or forensics psychia just joining us, what
would be the prospects of these two girls would be
killers ever becoming anything less than a threat if they
are released? Nancy, I totally agree with you. I'm sorry
(36:04):
I strike that I totally disagree with you. The brain
of a twelve year old, I believe that's what you
call a Freudian slip. But go ahead. The brain of
a twelve year old is just not the brain of
a twenty five year old. And the science is not
consistent with what you guys are saying. For example, children
who display what we call conduct disorder behavior, two thirds
of them do not go on, I repeat, do not
(36:26):
go on to become anti social. So a twelve year
old committing a murder. Wait a minute, wait, what did
you say conduct disorder? It's what we call conduct disorder.
It's sort of the forerunner. Does that include stabbing deaths?
I agree that a stabbing. I mean, you're making it
sound like she just threw a tantrum in the floor
of target. No, that's not what happened. But that's actually
(36:47):
that would actually be more oppositional behavior. But the point
I'm trying to make is you can't say that someone
who's twelve who commits a murder at twenty five is
going to be a menace to society because there are
a totally different person. Did they have a totally different
brain at twenty five than they did at age twelve? Well,
you know, there may not be much we can do
about it, because one of the girls who pled guilty
(37:08):
to stabbing her little twelve year old friend nineteen times
and leaving her for dead to please a pretend character
named slender Man has appealed. We believe that that appeal,
if granted, could end in the reversal of the sentence
or the conviction. The basis of the appeal, we believe,
(37:31):
is going to be that the girls should not have
been handled, whether it's a plea of bens trial or
a jury trial in adult court. But I do know
that what happened has changed Peyton Lawtner the victim's life forever.
One of the things I will never forget from this
interview with Peyton Latner all these years later is what
(37:53):
she said to me when I asked, what would you
say to Morgan Geyser if you saw her today, if
she saw the interview, what would you want to say
to her? There's a lot that I would want to
say to her. I would probably initially thank her. I
would say, because of what she did, I have the
life I have now, which I really really like it.
(38:16):
You do know that when people hear you say I
would probably thank her that they're going to be surprised. Yeah,
I'm surprised to hear myself say that. Why because I
wouldn't think that someone who went through what I did
would ever say that. But that's truly how I feel
like without the whole situation, I wouldn't be who I
(38:38):
am stronger. Well, I hear what the little victim is
saying now, but I also know she still sleeps with
scissors under her pillow and can't openly make friends or
trust anyone. After lying on the forest floor, bleeding out
(38:58):
near death, wait as justice unfalls Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
signing off Goodbye friend,
I don't know how the twins, my twelve year old
twins and know about this, but they know who slender
Man is. They don't know a lot about him, but
they know he's a tall, ghoulish, eerie looking thin, very
pale man dressed in a suit, and he gets slaves
or minions to follow him. How do they know this? Well,
(00:29):
this is what I know about slender Man. The sci
fi character was the inspiration for the brutal stabbing assault
on a little girl at the hands I've her two
so called besties, her best friends. The scary part slender
(00:51):
Man lives. This is crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace. Thank
you for being with us. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace.
(01:13):
What's the address your emergency CONI line and transmember? A
caller on Big Bend at the dead End just south
of RIVERA. Okay, you upon a twelve year old email
two peers of being stabbed. She appears to be with stapped, stabbed. Okay,
sorry still there? Yes, hi, sir, so is are you
with this twelve year old female? Yeah? She says she's
(01:35):
having trouble breathing. She said she was stabbed multiple times.
They have multiple times? Yeah, Okay, Sir, are you with
her right now? Yes? Is she awake? She's awake. Is
she breathing? Yeah, she's breathing. She said she can take
shallow breath. She's alert. Okay, stay with her. We're sending
the police department. Don't hang up. Okay, hold on, JA minute,
(01:58):
don't hang up. Okay, okay, well nice minutes that we're
setting officers. Is there any assailant around? I didn't even look.
I don't see anybody. Okay, stay stay right with her, Sir.
Is she on the ground or she standing up? No,
she's laying on the grass. Is there any bleeding going on?
Her clothing has got blood on it. Where are the wounds?
Did you see where the wounds are? No? I don't
(02:21):
know if I should be rolling her over and checking
or not. Do you know where? Okay, just stay with
her and just let me know if she's conscious or
alert or stop spreed anthing. Hold on, I'm going to
talk to the ambulance. Police are also in route. Okay.
So you see any active bleeding or blood spurting out
or anything like that. No, unless it's underneath or I
just see dried blood. Okay, just dried blood. Okay, you
(02:42):
are hearing a nine one one call. That becomes even
more chilling when you realize the victim is a twelve
year old little girl. I mean, I see grace. This
is crib stories. In the Last Days, the victim speaks out.
Let's Stour. Friends at t MJ four are told police
planning the attack made her scared, but she wanted to
(03:03):
prove Slenderman skeptics wrong. I would I would never my
family again. I was how Geyser says. The victim Peyton
had been her best friend for years. She says she
didn't choose Peyton, but went along with it. Leave down
her good time. Ima, I am wanting to hurt people before,
(03:34):
but they're not nice to me, a little girl saying before,
I wanted to hurt people and they deserved it. Two girls,
Morgan Geyser and Anissa were Could they possibly have lured
their twelve year old little best friend out into the
woods and then stabbed her, leaving her for dad. That's
(03:57):
what police are reporting, and in the Last Days, the
little girl who miraculously survives, Peyton Laudner speaks out, joining
me an all star panel. Jason Ocean's renowned defense attorney
in the New York, New Jersey area. Cloyd Steiger, thirty
six years of the Seattle Police Department, twenty two years
(04:18):
homicide detective, author of Homicide The View from Inside the
Yellow Tape. You can find him at Cloyd Steiger dot com.
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, Renown forensic psychiatrist, doctor Daniel Bober
joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction right now to
(04:38):
Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Page, Levi, take
me back to the night this little girl was stabbed
multiple times, left for dead, bleeding out, left to quote,
bleed out in the woods. You'd think it was a
sex offender, a registered sex offender, a pedophile, a maniac.
(04:59):
But it turns it's two little girls. Yes. Nancy May
twenty fourteen, Morgan Geyser is celebrating her birthday. She had
turned twelve, and she invited two of her classmates, her
friend Peyton Lutner and Anissa Weir, who are also twelve,
over to her home. They went skating, They ate frozen yogurt.
(05:20):
They had a slumber party. Okay, stop, stop, stop, stop
right there, Jason Oceans. You know what it is. It's
time for the twins birthday parties. Now they want separate parties,
separate parties, things like Levi Pace just said Jason, skating,
birthday cakes, manicures, pedicures for the little girls, laser tag
(05:44):
for the little boys. But this is just like every
other kid's birthday party. Jason Oceans. You've got two children,
You've lived through it, no doubt about it. And happy
birthday to the twins, and the yes challenge has become great.
Don't try to butter me up, Jason Oceans. It's attorney.
Nothing's going to change. Battle Nancy always the prosecutors, So
I mean it makes it worse to me. Joseph Scott Morgan,
(06:07):
You've lived through plenty of trials, as have you. Cloyd Steiger.
When it's a wolf in sheep's clothes, Joe Scott that
this was supposed to be an innocent, fun birthday party
for a little twelve year old girls. I mean, really, yeah,
you would think that they'd be completely and totally safe.
But yeah, and your defenses are down. Wouldn't you think
(06:29):
twelve years old, who's going to expect that this kind
of behavior is going to rise up among what would
seemly be a few innocent little children. I mean Cloyd
Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years, homicide detective.
I mean, I've seen plenty of twelve year old killers.
I'm not proud of it, but I had to do
a stint in juvenile But usually they're twelve year old
(06:51):
going on twenty five dopers, you know, getting their parents drugs,
mental issues that nobody knew about those types of killings
by twelve year olds. But two little suburban twelve year
old girls having a birthday party. Really, have you ever
seen anything like that, Chloy, because I have not. I've
(07:12):
never seen a thing of the twelve year old. I've
seen something very similar with some like sixteen year old
boys were like, you know, not criminal boys that lured
one of their friends into the woods and killed them
because they're an argument over a girl. But this is
really an anomaly. And like I said, I've arrested I
think the youngest I've arrested is thirteen, but that was
a gang bang thing, you know, and a long history
of violence before that, So it's really unusual. A lot
(07:34):
different from a little girl sleepover in suburbia. To doctor
Daniel Bober, it's like when, let me just compare it
to a little low lady you pass in the street
and she's got a walk or and she pulls out
an oozy on you and takes your money and runs.
You don't see it coming that, I'm what am I
trying to say? Put it in forensic psychiatric words. Well,
(07:56):
I ask you, it's a little bit different than an
old lady. A twelve year old doesn't really have the
compath to make those types of I'm saying, you don't
see it coming, Bober. I know there's a difference in
a little old lady and a twelve year old girl.
What I'm saying is the whole wolf in sheep's clothing thing. Bobra. Yeah, well,
I agree with you. You You definitely don't see it coming things.
It's not something you would ever see coming. I agree
with you on that. Wait, you're the renowned forhysics psychiatrist
(08:20):
and you're takeaway is, yeah, Nancy, is something you don't
see coming. That's it. I've already said that, doctor Bober.
You're gonna have to think of something impressive and psychiatric
right now. Well, let me just say that if it
was something we would see coming, then this wouldn't even
be a story that we'd be talking about. But the point,
but my point is is that it's something that you
(08:41):
would not expect that of a twelve year old, but
when it happens, it's something that you is explainable by
the fact that they don't really have the capacity to
waigh the future consequences of their actions. Well, you're certainly
right about that, Levi pagec. All you had to do
was say skating rink and everything went sideways. Let's just
go back to the party. What happened. So the night
they had a sleepover, and after the sleepover, in the morning,
(09:04):
the three girls went to the park. They went for
a walk, and this was Morgan Geyser and Anissa Weir's
idea to go for a walk. So they went out
into the woods and while they were in the woods,
they were playing hide and seek, or they were pretending
to play hide and seek, and they told Peyton Lautner
to lay down in the in the leaves and that
(09:26):
they were going to hide. Well, instead, Morgan Geyser pulled
out a knife and stabbed her nineteen times. And this
is after they have as spend the night with a
little girl. The three of them besties take a listen
to our friend David Muir at ABC twenty twenty with
Angie Geysers, Morgan's mom. It's Friday night in Waukesha, Wisconsin,
(09:47):
a Milwaukee suburb. Peyton is getting ready to celebrate her
best friend, Morgan Geyser's birthday. At that slumber party, Peyton
was so so excited. The girls met in fourth grade.
Peyton drawn to Morgan because she was a loner who
needed a friend. I made friends with her when I
saw that she didn't have any friends at all. Also
at that sleepover, Anisa Wire, who was new to the
(10:09):
school and who had grown close to Morgan. They laid
up in Morgan's s bedroom, ran up and down the stairs,
giggling and laughing, and I mean it was just a
normal knife, but there was nothing normal about what happened.
The next morning, when Morgan and Anissa suggest they all
go to the park and then to the woods together,
(10:29):
Anissa told me to lie on the ground and like
cover myself and like sticks and leaves and stuff, But
it was really just a trick while playing hide and seek.
Then came a niece's command, and Morgan attacks Peyton with
a knife. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace be afraid. I'm
(11:00):
a real a little kitty Hatch jumped Fellas shot her
and do you remember when it started? Kind of I
didn't feel anything because my body was in shock, so
they told me to lay down, you'll lose blood. Slower like,
we're gonna go get help and try to get off.
(11:26):
She couldn't walk and that she couldn't breathe, and they
told her they were gonna go get her help, but
Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't getting to help. We
wanted her to die. It. Got up and then just
walked until I hit a patch of grass where I
can lay down. A bicyclist notices Peyton bloodied and lying
in the grass. He calls nine one one. You're hearing
(11:46):
our friends at ABC twenty twenty. That was David. We
were with Peyton along with Detective trus Sony. Did you
notice Joseph's got Morgan that the little victim, the twelve
year old Peyton says, oh, by the way, when you
hear them refer to Bella, that's her nickname. Peyton's nickname
is Bella. Did you hear her say I didn't feel anything?
What does that mean? Well? That means and she's actually
(12:08):
in some of her interviews she's gone on to say
that she was in shock. And I'm sure that that's
what's been conveyed to her because she would have asked, well,
why didn't I feel anything. It's a primal response that
we have to being attacked like this. And Nancy, this
little girl will stab nineteen times over a variety of
areas in her body, so after a period of time,
the body is beginning to shut down just so that
(12:29):
she's not going to feel this response. Man, I've always
heard of your body going into shock and you don't
feel things. You know, Jason, you and I've discussed this
many many times. Jason oceans with me, veteran defense attorney
in the Tristate area, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Jason,
(12:50):
I always wondered about my fiance when he was murdered.
You know, he was shot five times in the neck
that faced the head. I always hoped that he went
into shock and didn't understand or know what was happening,
that he was alive and then he was gone. But
I also know that when he got to the hospital,
(13:11):
even after all that, he was physically still alive. His
heart was still beating. So I guess it's a blessing
when people physically go into shock, for sure. Nancy, you know,
as the doctor said that that's a natural reaction, and
you know, you listen to the testimony of and you're
(13:33):
just you're shocked as well. You know, she reacted that way,
and the twelve year old scenario of what happened to her.
She explains it the only natural and in some way
a blessing that she doesn't feel that physical pain of
being stabbed nineteen times. You know, I've noticed it with
my daughter, Doctor Daniel Bibram a little Lucy the other day,
(13:56):
we tried, what a scene to take fat Boy for
a walk. I even had him on a leash. Somehow
he wiggled out. He's the Docs and mix. He wiggled
out of the leash. He took off running and got
between two rot wilders. He started the fight with two
rot wilders in between them, and I immediately take off,
(14:16):
which was completely wrong, but I instinctively tried to pull
him out from between the two rot wilders who basically
just ignored him, thank goodness. But he was, I guess,
fighting with himself, trying to egg them on. But I
turned back quickly because I yelled at the children, stay away,
go back, don't don't come over here. Lucy had just frozen.
She was still standing in the same position, holding the
(14:39):
leash in her hand, dangling. John David was jumping up
and down, yelling and running around in circles and trying
to come over. But Lucy froze. And I've noticed that,
doctor Bober, what is that instinct when you are in
shot and just freeze? Well, Nancy, they talked about fight
or flay, but it's really fight, flate or freeze, and
that's the freeze. And the freeze is sort of what
(15:01):
we called dissociation, where you're disconnected from your thoughts and
your emotions when you become too overwhelmed. That's what it is.
Floyd Siger with me twenty two years homicide detective, an
author of Homicide The View from Inside the Yellow Tape. Cloyd,
have you seen that on criminal scenes before, where witnesses
defenditis victims just freeze in the moment. I have several times,
(15:22):
and I've also talked to a lot of people who
have been stabbed and survived, and they said the same thing.
They didn't even know they were being stabbed. They thought
they were just being punched. And you know, fortunately I
could talk to some parents of a young girl that
was stabbed to death and tell them she probably didn't
suffer before she died, and that made a lot to
them because it is, I mean here all the time
I put it over my entire career. I didn't even
(15:45):
know it's being stabbed. I just thought it's being punished.
So I mean, that is a blessing. I've heard it too.
I have heard that too. Well, that is what this
little girl was saying, that she didn't feel anything at
the beginning. Listen, do you remember leaving the park to
go to the woods. They just wanted to a goal
on a walk and I didn't think much of it.
It's just a walk. It's in Waka Shot, Like what
(16:05):
bad stuff happens in Waka Shaw, Wisconsin. We're going to
play hie and Lisa told me to lie on the
ground and like cover myself in like sticks and leaves
and stuff. But it was really just a trick. I
br and they you and I whatever when you say
(16:27):
you want to I away. I've been now, I remember,
go crazy. Thank you? Yeah, what did you do that?
You told you that. When you hear them describe to
(16:50):
investigators and he's telling Morgan just to do it. I
think the word was gobalistic. Oh, I remember that. I
do remember them chatting right next to me while I
was just laying there, stabbed nineteen times and left by
her attackers to quote, bleed out dead in the woods.
The shock. Her attackers are two other twelve year old
(17:13):
little girls. In the last days, the victim, who miraculously
survived her mom says. Doctors claim that they found one
of the stab wounds about an eighth of an inch
from one of her arteries, an eighth of an inch
between life and death. How could two twelve year old
(17:35):
little besties do something like this? Listen to our friend
David Muir with Peyton after the stab. The name contains
the encourage you just lay down in the woods and rest.
For what they really wanted are going to do was
bleed out in the woods. And do you remember what
you said to them? I trusted you, and then they
told me to lay down. You'll lose blood slower if
(17:55):
we're gonna go get help. She couldn't walk and that
she couldn't and they told her they were gonna go
get her help, but Anissa flat outside. No, we weren't
getting help. We wanted her to die. Do you remember
the moment they left you? I think I remember them
(18:17):
running away, but I kind of just lay there for
a minute. You walked out of the woods, it, got up,
grabbed a couple of trees for support, I think, and
then just walked until I hit a patch of grass
where I could lay down. It's amazing that she had
the strength to do that with the injuries that she had.
When I told her that the girls were in custody,
(18:38):
it seemed to give her a sense of relief. The
girls were ultimately arrested for first degree at Tom Thomas side.
That's a very serious charge. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
(19:06):
it wasn't until we sat down and we started talking
with the girls that we really knew what was going
on that it was two twelve year old girls had
a planned for six months to kill their friends. You
don't often see this with adults, and to have this
happened between twelve year old is absolutely horrifying. Yeah, where
are you body now, Um, I thought it was still
(19:32):
stopped it crime. Did you think that she died? Yeah,
she is alive. Have you ever watched any of those interrogations.
I watched a little bit, but we should reaction. It
was a little shocking to me to see that they
had this big, huge plan that they had been working
(19:55):
on for months. A big, huge plan they had been
working on for months. A little girl has to spend
the night birthday party where there are other twelve year
old friends. The three of them go for a walk
and the two friends Marketing Geyser and Anissa were execute
a long planned scheme to murder Peyton lawn Or just
(20:16):
twelve years old, also known as Bella. You were hearing
our friend David Murror at twenty twenty speaking because in
the last days Peyton speaks out a huge plan that
they had for months. But why listen? This is where
the story takes another turn to a fictional character on
(20:39):
the internet that is all back now. A niece to
(21:15):
explained to me that to prove yourself worthy to slender
you would have to kill somebody. You have to kill
someone to go live with slender Man. You're hearing our
friend David murror and detectives during the investigation of the
attempt to stab little twelve year old Bella dead. Welcome
(21:38):
back home, Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you
for being with us. Leavi page with me crime online
dot com investigative journalist who is slender Man. So this
is a fictional character, Nancy, that is very prevalent in
creepy pasta communities and creepy pasta communities is like horror
stories that people tell on form like Reddit. It's very
(22:01):
popular there. And this is a guy that someone drew
an artist and he has a featureless face. He's tall, thin,
he's often wearing a suit. He looks very ghost like,
and he likes to stalk and traumatize children in these
creepy pasta stories. He also uses mind control to tell
them what to do. And apparently Morgan Geyser was obsessed
(22:25):
with slender Man. When law enforcement got a search warrant
for her room, they found drawings of slender Man. She
had researched him on the internet, had read creepy pasta
stories about him, and they also found that she had
been thinking about murder for a long time because months
in advance of this attack, she had searched on the
(22:48):
internet how to get away with murder. Well, there's everything
you need to show premeditation. To defense attorney Jason Oceans,
the girls tell police they were convinced murder their little
friend Peyton Lawtner known as Bella by slender Man. Slender
Man's not real, Jason, He's fictional. And how can both
(23:10):
girls have the same psychiatric delusion at the same time.
That's the same thing I keep talking about all of
Epstein's guards in the jail. How can they all fall
asleep at the same time and leave him to be
found dead? How can two little girls have the same
psychiatric break with reality? This was just their excuse for
(23:34):
murdering their little friend. They are murderers, and Nancy I
analogize this type of you know, mind control that the
young lady placed in the slender Man character to you know,
Jim Jones or any cult or David Koresh where people
(23:55):
are willing to not only to sacrifice themselves but their
children in belief. And those are adults, right, brain formed
out all the way by twenty two right and uh,
and these are adults with children, and you would think,
my god, you know, sacrifice yourself. How do you do
your children? It is it does shock the conscience that
this happened. Um and and and clearly from you know,
(24:18):
monitoring your children and you know, creepy pasta stories because
they're creepy with fun, but noticing some differences in your children.
We've being withdrawn or you know, just something more sinister. Uh,
is the responsibility of parenting. You can't just be disengaged
when your child has been having seemingly these thoughts, murderous
(24:42):
thoughts for so long. You've got to see a change
in your child. You just can't be an absenteep arrand
what about it? Do Dodger Daniel Bober joining me forensic
psychiatrists out of the Florida jurisdiction. Apparently the parents knew nothing,
had no idea anything was going on with their children. Yeah, Nancy,
you see this a lot. For example, I remember during
the Columbine shootings, parents had no idea that that Klebold
(25:07):
and Harris were stockpiling weapons in their own garage, Like,
they never bothered to check that there were weapons being
stockpiling their garage. So, unfortunately, this is something that happens
with parents. They just kind of give their kids. These
electronic babysitters like cell phones, and they are not really
paying attention to what's going on. But in regards to
what you said before, yes, of course the kids did
(25:28):
not have the same delusion. But sometimes when you get
two kids together and one of them has a more
dominant personality and more dominant traits, they will lead the
weaker kid to go along with their plan, even though
it's not something they would have done on their own.
Take a listen to this. I've never gone into an
interview so blind as I am in this one. I
(25:49):
thought that maybe this was all about a boy. This
is a fight about a boy. Okay, we didn't know
what these girls were going to tell us. What were
you trying to do with her? When you stand her
kill her? I'm right as to say it. We were
(26:09):
trying to kill her? Why did you pick? I didn't
you picture? Who? Picture whatever? I needed to were talking about?
My thought was why would she do this? Let's say, like,
(26:29):
who the heck is slender Man? To think that tune
twelve year olds would come up with something like this
and plan it out for six months. As soon as
I heard I knew that this was going to be
a Big Deal Clime Stories with Nancy Grace over my radio.
(27:02):
I heard that a twelve year old girl had been
stabbed about a mile and a half away from this location.
At one momentum Triends, remember, a caller on Big Ben
came upon a twelve year old email two peers of
me stabbed. She peers to be what stab stabbed. The
road that she was located on was Big Ben Road
at the dead end of that Peyton wasn't moving a
(27:24):
whole lot. As I approached her, I said, Hi, I'm
off sir Dan. Are you okay? And she said no,
And I said, okay, help is on the way. Just
stay right where you are. And as I got closer,
I started to see a little bit more blood, And
the closer I got, the more blood I saw. Somehow
she'd been able to pull herself out of those woods,
(27:44):
and in another moment of strength, she was able to
communicate with him. I asked her who did this, and
she told me her friend Morgan. I then asked her
where did this happen and she told me that happened
in the woods. She was the first one to reveal
that it was Morgan, her best friend, who was behind this.
(28:05):
You're hearing Officer Dan Klein speaking with twenty twenties David Muir.
Right now, these two girls, Morgan Geyser and Anissa were
in a mental institution, but now appealing that conviction. Are
they set to be released? Levi Page Crime Online dot
(28:26):
Com investigative reporter Levi. When the search warrant was executed
on Geyser and War's homes, what was found? So I
mentioned about the Internet searches on Morgan's computer that said
how to get away with murder? They had also found
mutilated dolls in her room that had the body parts
(28:47):
cut off of them. Oh, dear Lord in heaven did
Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics, an author
of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan,
this is right up your alley, speaking of forensics. Yeah, well, Nancy,
let me go to something real quick that you know,
we've talked about this, this obsession that these girls have
(29:09):
with slender Man, and they're doing his bidding and living
in this fantastical world where they're you know, they've got
to make some kind of I don't know, sacrifice this guy.
Let me tell you what's based in reality. What's based
in reality is this poor girl was subject to being
stabbed by five blade of five inches in length, and
(29:30):
she stabbed nineteen times. Nancy, her liver was actually clipped.
It passed through her pancreas it passed through her diaphragm,
and she was very close to dying. You know, I
did a calculation just a moment ago. Let's just say
that she only weighed eighty pounds twelve years old. You know,
she's gotten less than a gallon of blood in her body.
(29:51):
It is an absolute miracle that she survived. And I'm
just talking about the organs, not to mention all the
little peripheral stab wounds that she's just she had an
angel on her shoulder at that time. The injuries done
to this twelve year old little girl are overwhelming. But
listen to this after we're in geyser or tell detectives
(30:13):
they had to kill Bella to become Slender Man's servants.
We now know that when the jury decided the little
girls were mentally insane, we had a mental defect. This
means that every six months they can petition the court
to be released. Every six months, according to the victim's mom.
(30:40):
She says, the potential release of an assilla that methodically
planned and executed an attack on our little girl where
she was stabbed nineteen times puts the community and our
family at risk. Leave page. As a matter of fact,
they are appealing their treatment as an adults. Isn't that right?
(31:01):
You're correct, Nancy, But I'm wondering how that's going to
work out because they pleaded guilty. Anissa Weir took a
plea deal, and she put pleading guilty to a lesser
charge of attempted second degree intentional homicide as part of
her deal. A jury would hear her in insanity defense.
Then they were going to decide on whether or not
(31:23):
she would be responsible and sent to prison. Are not
guilty by a reason of a mental defect and sent
to a mental institution. They wanted to send her to
a mental institution so she didn't get sent to prison.
In twenty seventeen, a jury found her not guilty by
reason of a mental disease or defect and was sentenced
(31:44):
to a twenty five year commitment into a state institution.
And Morgan Geyser's lawyers also made a similar deal. She
pleaded guilty to attempted first degree intentional homicide, and prosecutors
agreed as part of this not to challenge her insanity defense.
And she was sentenced to forty years in a mental institution.
(32:06):
So how do you appeal something that you agreed to
as part of a plea deal. Well, you're actually correct
on that. In Jason Oceans, what they're arguing is they
should not have had a jury trial, a ben's trial,
or even a plea in adult court. That's correct, Nancy.
And you know, I'm just still torn as defense counsel
(32:27):
and father between these, you know, these two parallels, And
I guess the part of me that says that they're
not in prison but in a mental mental institution seems
to me more appropriate at this point in juncture. You know,
we can look at it again and see about mental rehabilitation,
but I wouldn't want them in population, even segregated. And
(32:50):
I think the ability to get mental health because at
twelve years old, to be lured into or dominated by
another twelve year old into evil, to me, shocks the system.
And for the older one, morgan more dominant in the
in the entire process and planning it out, and the
mutilated dolls. Yeah, an appropriate sentence. I'm just shocked. I
(33:15):
am too, and I hope this appeal doesn't work. DEPLOYD. Steiger,
twenty two years homicide detective, author of Homicide The view
from inside the Yellow Tape. When you commit a murder
at age twelve, or in this case, attempted murder, that's
a tough sell to be released back out into the community,
(33:36):
because if you're homicidal at that age, what are you
going to be like at twenty one. Yeah, that's just
the question. I mean, it really puts people at risk.
But first of all, I also wanted to say that
this police department, which is a relatively small policepartment, probably
not very experienced at homicide. They did a great job
from the patrol officer getting there asking appropriate questions, and
great job by both the detectives and their interviews and
(33:57):
the techniques they use, and the casualness in the setting
of the room. So, I mean, you know, people from
big cities New York, Los Angeles, they don't expect to
have a case like this, but when it is in
a suburban, smaller town, you think to be overwhelmed. But
they came, they stepped to the plate, But you're right
about that. I mean, how much risk you gonna take?
(34:18):
I mean, I'm a grandfather little girls, you know, I
wouldn't want them around anybody like this. So it's just
it's just a terrible case all the way around. Take
a listen to Peyton the victim, also known as Bella,
as she speaks out. Have you ever watched any of
those interrogations. I watched a little bit. What was your reaction.
It was a little shocking to me to see that
(34:40):
they had this big, huge plan that they had been
working on for months. Do you remember leaving the park
to go to the woods. They just wanted to go
on a walk, and I didn't think much of it.
It's just a walk. It's in Wakashaw, Like what bad
stuff happens in Wakashaw, Wisconsin. And Lisa told me to
lie on the ground owned and like cover myself in
(35:01):
like sticks and leaves and stuff. But it was really
just a trick. When you hear them describe to investigators
and he'sa telling Morgan just to do it, I think
that the word was globalistic. Oh, I remember that. I
do remember them chatting right next to me while I
was just lying there, and do you remember when it started?
(35:22):
Kind Of I didn't feel anything because my body was
in shock from the adrenaline. I didn't feel a thing.
Do you remember the moment they left you? I think
I remember them running away, but I kind of just
lay there for a minute. You walked out of the woods.
It got up, grabbed a couple of trees for support,
I think, and then just walked until I hit a
(35:43):
patch of grass where I could lay down. Wow to
doctor Daniel bober Or forensics psychia just joining us, what
would be the prospects of these two girls would be
killers ever becoming anything less than a threat if they
are released? Nancy, I totally agree with you. I'm sorry
(36:04):
I strike that I totally disagree with you. The brain
of a twelve year old, I believe that's what you
call a Freudian slip. But go ahead. The brain of
a twelve year old is just not the brain of
a twenty five year old. And the science is not
consistent with what you guys are saying. For example, children
who display what we call conduct disorder behavior, two thirds
of them do not go on, I repeat, do not
(36:26):
go on to become anti social. So a twelve year
old committing a murder. Wait a minute, wait, what did
you say conduct disorder? It's what we call conduct disorder.
It's sort of the forerunner. Does that include stabbing deaths?
I agree that a stabbing. I mean, you're making it
sound like she just threw a tantrum in the floor
of target. No, that's not what happened. But that's actually
(36:47):
that would actually be more oppositional behavior. But the point
I'm trying to make is you can't say that someone
who's twelve who commits a murder at twenty five is
going to be a menace to society because there are
a totally different person. Did they have a totally different
brain at twenty five than they did at age twelve? Well,
you know, there may not be much we can do
about it, because one of the girls who pled guilty
(37:08):
to stabbing her little twelve year old friend nineteen times
and leaving her for dead to please a pretend character
named slender Man has appealed. We believe that that appeal,
if granted, could end in the reversal of the sentence
or the conviction. The basis of the appeal, we believe,
(37:31):
is going to be that the girls should not have
been handled, whether it's a plea of bens trial or
a jury trial in adult court. But I do know
that what happened has changed Peyton Lawtner the victim's life forever.
One of the things I will never forget from this
interview with Peyton Latner all these years later is what
(37:53):
she said to me when I asked, what would you
say to Morgan Geyser if you saw her today, if
she saw the interview, what would you want to say
to her? There's a lot that I would want to
say to her. I would probably initially thank her. I
would say, because of what she did, I have the
life I have now, which I really really like it.
(38:16):
You do know that when people hear you say I
would probably thank her that they're going to be surprised. Yeah,
I'm surprised to hear myself say that. Why because I
wouldn't think that someone who went through what I did
would ever say that. But that's truly how I feel
like without the whole situation, I wouldn't be who I
(38:38):
am stronger. Well, I hear what the little victim is
saying now, but I also know she still sleeps with
scissors under her pillow and can't openly make friends or
trust anyone. After lying on the forest floor, bleeding out
(38:58):
near death, wait as justice unfalls Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
signing off Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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