September 16, 2025 • 46 mins
The Utah County Sheriff's Office reports that Tyler Robinson, the suspect in the Charlie Kirk shooting, has been placed in the county jail’s special housing unit for now.
The county jail’s special housing unit for the time being. Robinson reportedly first told his father he would “rather kill himself” than go to jail, before agreeing to turn himself in to cops. The unit has ‘around the clock’ physical supervision, and Robinson will not be transferred elsewhere until he receives medical and mental health clearance.
Tyler Robinson’s father isn’t the only one who recognized him in the FBI’s surveillance photos.
Almost immediately, Robinson’s closest friends called him out in their 20-person Discord group chat, one sharing the photo and asking Robinson where he is.
Robinson shoots back, “It’s my doppelgänger trying to get me in trouble!”
Another friend proclaims, “Tyler killed Charlie!!!”
A third suggests turning Robinson in for the reward, and Robinson sneers, “Only if I get a cut."
An anonymous family member of Robinson believes Lance Twiggs, his roommate or lover, is the influence radicalizing Robinson. The woman says Twiggs has very low contact with their family and hates their political and religious beliefs.
She puts blame on the immersion in online gaming culture for some of the personality changes seen in the roommates since moving in together, but her gut tells her Twigg provided the fuel behind Robinson’s sudden extremism.
Dozens of citizens posting celebrations on social media have faced real-world consequences for hateful online responses to Charlie Kirk’s murder. A doctor resigns after loudly proclaiming Kirk got what he deserved. When a nurse reported the hateful message, she faced retaliation; however, the doctor no longer works there, and the nurse is back on the schedule.
DC cancelled a highly praised artist’s comic book series after just one issue because she posted of Kirk’s death, “I hope the bullet’s okay.”
As quickly as they ran to social media to celebrate Kirk’s death, many returned crying, sharing they were fired, some angry, but mostly in shock because they needed that job and loved that job.
Many replies to the many remorseless rants said, "You enjoyed your job, Charlie Kirk enjoyed his life, you needed your job, and Charlie Kirk's kids and wife needed him."
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Franz Borghardt - Criminal Defense Attorney, Former Prosecutor, Adjust Professor at Louisiana State University Teaching Criminal Litigation; Instagram and Facebook: BorghardtLawFirm, Founder of Borghardt Law Firm
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,” and featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Chris McDonough - Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room"
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X @JoScottForensic
- Elina Shirazi - Senior Political Reporter at the Daily Mail, website: DailyMail.com; Instagram and TikTok: elinashiazi
- Sydney Sumner - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Did he have help the Charlie Kirk shooting suspects Friends
and Furries tonight under the microscope? I, Nancy Grace, this
is Crime Stories.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when
I started hearing of Ussure playing and screaming to get down.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I was arfied. He thought it out. He planned it
out that much that he knew he had to change
clothes to blend in.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And it hit him in the.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Coroner and artery and that cause to lead out almost.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Immediately as the defendant, Robinson is facing formal charges in
Utah County Court. Interesting not federal charges, state charge, but
the death penalty is the death penalty is the death penalty,
whether it's state firing squad or the federal electric chair.
(01:09):
That said, facing formal charges as predicted that essentially mirror
the charges under which he was arrested, that specifically being
the murder of Charlie Kirk, a thirty one year old
husband and father of two, for what motive, political hatred,
(01:31):
ideology differences really at this.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Hour, as we go to air.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
The defendants friends and Furries under a microscope. Did they
know what was happening? What are they clairvoyant? They predicted
it online? How did they do that without knowledge? Did
they actually help him affect the murder? That and so
(02:00):
much more we are learning, specifically.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Who got rid of the note? Listen.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
The suspect wrote a ote saying I have the opportunity
to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it.
That note was written before the shooting. At the note,
even though it has been destroyed, we have found forensic
evidence of the note and we have confirmed what that
note says because of our aggressive interview posture at the.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
FBI, Robinson communicated he had an opportunity to take out
Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And he was going to do it.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
Robinson reportedly texted the message and left a note in
his Saint George apartment. The note was destroyed, but investigators
discovered its contents.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Through an interview.
Speaker 6 (02:41):
The FBI is now investigating if anyone refused to intervene
or even helped him commit the murder.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
The sound of FBI Director Cash Patel from our friends
at Fox. A lot of people are piling on Patel
right now. Could we focus on the killer? I will
get to Patel in a moment, but right now it's
all about the evidence as formal charges being handed down
against Robinson.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What note? How did it get destroyed? What did it say?
And why would someone destroy it?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
If Robinson himself did not destroy it, who did? Sounds
like a codefendant to me, straight out to senior political
reporter Daily Mail, Elena Shirazi, Elena, thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
What note? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (03:29):
So you just heard FBI director Cash Hotel on Fox
News on Monday say that Robinson wrote that note, reportedly
saying quote, I have the opportunity to take out Charlie
Kirk and I'm going to do it. Cash Bettel also
said that the suspect wrote this note before the shooting.
There was evidence that it existed. It was in their
(03:52):
home that he lived with with his romantic partner. But
even though Patel says it was destroyed, which there were questions,
as you brunt up, Nancy, how was it destroyed? Who
destroyed it? Because that is obviously crucial evidence. They've still
found forensic evidence.
Speaker 8 (04:09):
Of the notes and they've confirmed what.
Speaker 7 (04:12):
The notes said because of aggressive interviews at the FBI.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Elena Sharazzi, you are absolutely correct, But I don't like
the way that that just tripped off your tongue.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I want to.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Get every single word you said, all the points you
were making, because to me, every one of the points
that you so quickly recounted is a point of evidence,
you know, to you.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Joseph Scott Morgan's joining me.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I want to follow up on everything that Elina Sharazzi
just said. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
head of an incredible program there, author of Blood Beneath
My Feet on Amazon's Star and you hit series podcasts
Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That's said.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
He is a death investigator and forensics expert that has
handled literally thousands of cases. Joe Scott, why didn't think
I just take out an add on third Avenue?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I did it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean to leave a written note. Now, that's something
I would argue in closing arguments. But can we talk
about the fact that the FBI director said it was destroyed,
but that their investigation led to its contents. I smell
a co defendant who destroyed that note? And how did
(05:38):
they recreate that note?
Speaker 9 (05:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (05:40):
Good question. I'm wondering if this is a physical note,
like a handwritten note, I'm wondering if they have found
partials of this note that they could have reassembled in
some way, and we don't know what destroyed means. Does
that mean that it's torn up? Does that mean that
it was burned. All of these factors are going to
play into it. So is there a chance that there
(06:01):
could have been some kind of digital remnant? I have
no idea.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Hey Jo Scott, let's look at each three of those alternatives,
because we know that they've been able to recreate it.
So if it was torn up, simple some idgit it's
I'm just going out on a limb here and hypothesizing
it was either.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Him or is your roommate that tore up the note?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yes, that said it could have been somebody else that
happened to be in their apartment that tore up the note.
If all it was was torn up, we could put
that right back together.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Again, no problem.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
If it were burned, different thing that can be recreated too,
And it's.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Really not that hard.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You've been on plenty of arsenal scenes, as have I.
When something is burned, very often, unless the ashes have
been scattered, you can still read what's on the ashes.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
That is a fact.
Speaker 10 (06:55):
Yeah, and we have to understand that the evidence bons
team from the FBI, that by the way, is very good,
was on top of everything here, working hand in hand
with state police. They would have been very careful at
all of these scenes. Remember, Nancy, I think that people
get lost in the sauce here thinking that there's only
one crime scene. Nancy, You've got multiple scenes here, with
(07:19):
not just the shooting site, but also the homes that
are involved, the vehicles that are involved. There's all kinds
of secondary and tertiary scenes involved in this. So this
would have been an all hands on deck. They would
have treated this note let's just say it wasn't an
incinerated status. They would have treated it as if it's
a fragile document from the distant past. One other thing
(07:42):
I was thinking about if this was written on a
notepad perhaps, and they used a tremendous amount of pressure
when writing, which a lot of people do. If you
find that pad, you can reconstruct it based upon the
impressions left on the underlying paper still remaining.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, smart, smart Joe Scott. And of course here here's
the other altar of Joe Scott not to be a
dead horse, but digitally.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
They said it was a note. They did not say
it was a text for an email. But if there's
some digital proof of that note, such as, hey, get
rid of the note I left on my desk, there
you go, there you go, proof of the note?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You know, let me go out to a veteran trial lawyer.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Franz Borghart, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor at junk Louisiana
State University at Borgheart Law Firm dot com.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Franz, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What if I call you on the phone and go, hey, hey, hey,
I left a note. I think it's on my desk
under my laptop. Could you destroy it right now? Okay,
and you destroy it, what can I charge you with
after our detection place?
Speaker 11 (09:01):
So I've now entered the realm of obstruction of justice,
possibly aiding in a betting in federal court. Nancy, it's
a different crime, but it's all in that family of accomplice.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
While you may not be able.
Speaker 11 (09:15):
To be charged with murder, you're certainly looking at serious
charges on what might be one of the most serious
public murders and quite some time. So you are in
a heap of.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Trouble in your jurisdiction for obstruction of justice? What's the sentence?
Speaker 11 (09:32):
It could be five to twenty for obstruction. There's different
flavors of obstruction. There's like a lesser one, but five
to twenty and you better believe Nancy, they're going to
be going for the twenty.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
You know what I predict, Franz Borgart, I predict the
furries and friends are going to talk. They're going to
talk rather than do twenty twenty hard on obstruction.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
There, and as I made about the roommate maybe being
transgender and transitioning, and as friends are furries.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Don't care. I don't care who they are, what they believe,
what their sex preference is.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I don't care what color they are, what religion or
no religion they are. All I care about is did
they have a hand in Charlie Kirk's brutal and public murder.
That's all I care about, guys. There's more more evidence
pouring out. Let's take a listen to the friends, especially
(10:35):
the friends on that discord chat room.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Being under the microscope right now.
Speaker 12 (10:42):
Listen, did they say it, hear it and think it
was some kind of a joke. That's what we're trying
to find out now. But I promise you if there's
a larger network here, we're going to get that out
to the public as soon as we can. Did they
know where they sure this or did they hear this
and just write it off? That's what we're going to
have to find out, and that's what we're investigating.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Up from our friends at Fox straight out to Sidney
Sumner joining us in addition to Elina Shirazi with Daily Mail.
Sidney Sumner Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
What were the friends clairvoyant?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Because didn't they post several of them something big is
going to happen on September eleven, some of them.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Even naming the place.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It'd be funny if someone like Charlie Kirk got shot
on September ten. Laughing my ass off? Really, you know what,
when you're hauled in for questioning Mushy, I don't think
you're going to be laughing your ass off then. And
there's more what about it, Sidney Sumner? Oop, here's another one. Yeah,
(11:50):
September ten will be a very interesting day. I plead
the fifth, Really, why do you plead the fifth? If
you haven't done anything wrong, and there's so much more
to say. That's on August the sixth, August to six,
they're predicting something on the.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Tent and then we effing did it.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh, you guys have something big coming soon. Just be
sure you check the news. You'll know it when you
see it.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Who are these people?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Sidney Sumner right, Apparently these are all people that are
being investigated as part of Robinson's network that may have
known about this. I mean, I don't see a way
to defend against Oh, I didn't know anything was happening.
It seems like you did.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Look at this.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Look at this. Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow.
I really hope someone evaporates him. Literally, let's just say
same person speaking omar. Let's just say something big will
happen tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And look look at all the people that have reposted it,
that have hearted it.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I don't think they're clairvoyant. Franz Borghart. It's just like
Scott Peterson. Oh, here's another one calls dropout, does not
know what's coming tomorrow. They're referring to Charlie Kirk. Biskey
didn't get into the military academies.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Be ready.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
This isn't a threat, it's a promise. That's Jackson, Jackson,
I want to haul you in by your toenails and
find out why you said that.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I mean, we effing did it.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Charlie Kirk has died. Oh, Franz Borgheart Just like Scott Peterson,
they're not clairvoyant. Recall Peterson said to his lover, this
is going to be my first Christmas without my wife.
I'm gonna have my first Christmas as a widow, and
then bam he did because he murdered her and their
(14:00):
unborn baby.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Connor. Same thing here. These people are not clairvoyance.
Speaker 11 (14:05):
I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 10 (14:06):
I don't know that.
Speaker 11 (14:07):
Their quote unquote co conspirators says they knew and didn't
say anything. Absolutely foul, absolutely discussing. And you know, if
everybody's going to start singing at some point, especially you
toss a fire and squad seat, they're not afraid to
put someone down, and everybody's going to start singing, and
all this forensic.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Evidence, all of it, all of it, it's.
Speaker 11 (14:31):
Going to be used against not only the shooter but
also these individuals.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, what about aiding and a betting. Wouldn't that qualify?
Is aiding and a betting cheering someone on in their crime.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Not put Franz Borghart up.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Look, I know that you're coming at this from a
different lens, through a different lens than I am. But
just knowing about something is not necessarily crime. But if
you aid in a bet, if you further that because
spiracy at all, if you encourage encourage is listed in
the Aiding and embedded Statute. The black and white letter
(15:10):
of the law says, if you aid a bet.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Their commas, you don't need everyone.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Aid comma a bet, comma, encourage comma. If you encourage
a murder, you're in it up to hear Borghart.
Speaker 11 (15:27):
Well, the federal government and the state are going to
have leverage over these people, to be sure, even if
it's not a strong aiding and a betting case, Nancy,
they're going to be able to say, you know what,
we're going to start against the wall and see if
we can get to sick. And that's why I think
more likely than not, these lower level people these and
I say lower level because they weren't holding the gun,
(15:47):
but they may be just as responsible. I think that
they're going to cooperate and try to cut deals that
take death penalty off the table.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
To doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us renown psycho analysts out
of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her
now on peacock at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,
Who are the ghules that stand by and let a young.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Father of two.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Get shot in the throat, tearing his throat out and
then they cheer after forget what they did, after the
aiding and embedding, the encouraging this.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
That is a crime, a felony yancy.
Speaker 9 (16:28):
These ghouls are people who are also homicidal. You don't
shear somebody on unless you also have homicidal ideation. Now,
what's interesting about this shooting is it has some aspects
of a.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
School shooting, not all.
Speaker 9 (16:40):
It's an assassination as well, and that he was standing
at the top of a building. It was an efficient
of barrel quality, scaring students, creating a power differential in school.
Shooters tend to confess online and everybody overlooks it now
because they're afraid to turn the guy in, or they
minimize or discount it. What's interesting and different about this
(17:01):
is this Purp was actually recruiting followers, and the followers
willingly went along. And then I think one of the
ways that he recruited followers was through gaming and having
people watch him playing violent games, and so he was
kind of creating an army of support. And I'm going
(17:23):
to say these people wished Kirk dead as much as
the Purp did. They just didn't have to pick up
the gun and do it themselves, but they certainly egged
him on and pushed him towards it, And in my mind,
that is complicity at a psychological level.
Speaker 12 (17:42):
Did they say it, hear it and think it was
some kind of a joke. That's what we're trying to
find out now. But I promise you, if there's a
larger network here, we're going to get that out to
the public as soon as we can. Did they know
where they sure this or did they hear this and
just write it off. That's what we're going to have
to find out, and that's what we're investigating.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
He changed clothes to us to void so as to
avoid detection. He covered his tracks, he parked far away,
he hid his weapon, He had to go back and
retrieve his weapon. He tried to cover his face. Everything
indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and
(18:23):
he tried to hide it afterwards. So this guy, the
Kirk suspect, he ain't all that in a bag of chips.
Let me throw a technical legal term at you, idiot,
ange and I we're learning a potential motive hatred old
as dirt.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
In one text sent by the.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Allegislator, he was asked why he said some hatred cannot
be negotiated with. The alleged shator says, some hatred cannot
be negotiated with. And you know what that says to me,
(19:06):
Maybe you won't get a plea negotiation. Think about it.
I wonder if his own words will be thrown back
in his face. Will this be a death penalty case
in the end, or will it fizz out like coburger
before the public knows what really happened in the degree
of planning involved.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
In Kirk's murder.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Right now we are learning formal charges and they mirror
the charges on which he was arrested.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
This is how it goes.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Police have pc problem cause to arrest you. The arrest
is for let's just say, murder and weapons charges. Generally speaking,
the formal charges and indictment will mirror what the cops
used to arrest you for simple Now, sometimes additional events
(20:03):
will come to light and there may be different or
additional charges. That said, that's exactly what is happening in
this case. There are additional charges, but the one that
really matters is murder. Now we are learning that the
shooter was apparently radicalized online city summer. Before we discuss that,
(20:23):
could you just remind everybody how many thousands of hours
the alleged sheater was online.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Well, we know from his Twitch channel, so this is
the amount of streaming games and he's played that he's
publicly put out there for everyone to watch more than
two thousand hours. That's over ten years. But when you
do the math there, that's an hour a day. Lease.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Now, when you say that that was the amount we
know of that was streamed, a lot of people are
not familiar with what that means, nor should they be
familiar with it. They're out working and having lives. My
understanding is he would play online, and there were two
thousand hours of him playing online that he posted.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Or that people could watch as he streamed it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That doesn't include all the online activity that he didn't
share streaming.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It's absolutely right. So Twitch is like Facebook for video games,
So it's like streaming yourself live on Facebook, and people
can tune in and watch as you're playing the video game.
So there's no telling how many hours he played, not publicly,
just on his own devices without streaming it to everyone.
This is only a fraction of what he shared publicly.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So the reason I'm telling you about this is because
many suspect he was radicalized online, steeped in political hatred online.
Speaker 13 (21:55):
Listen, I will say that that person has been very
cooperative with authorities.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
An anonymous family member of the person Robinson lives with
believes Lance Twigs radicalized Robinson. The woman says Twigs is
very low contact with their family and hates them for
their political and religious beliefs. She blames immersion and online
gaming culture for some of the personality changes seen in
the roommates since moving in together, but her gut tells
(22:22):
her Twig provided the fuel behind Robinson's sudden extremism.
Speaker 13 (22:27):
There was kind of that that deep dark Internet, the
Reddit culture and these other dark places of the Internet
where this person was going deep.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That from our friends, that's the Utah Governor Spister Cox
from NBCIT speaking earlier crime stories with Nancy Grace, Chris
McDonald joining me, Director Cole Case Foundation, star of the
(23:00):
Interview Room on YouTube, but former homicide detective working over
three hundred homicides plus more. Chris mc donald, motive doesn't matter. Now,
I know that sounds off base, but the reality is
motive does not have to be proved by the state period.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
However jury's like to hear it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
What do you think about this radicalized online You know, Nancy.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
There's a couple of things happening right now that are
fluid in this investigation. They are scraping the internet for
every click, every keyboard click from mister Robinson's devices, and
those keyboard clicks will tell us any kind of messaging
that may or may not have been going back and
(23:48):
forth to the streaming platforms where these gamers hang out.
The roommate hung out on a variety of different type
of streaming platforms. One of them was Twitch, the other
one was what they call steam Steam. I've been on
the ground the last three days here in Utah. This
(24:09):
is where the investigation is focusing. There's one other point
that they're trying to establish and that's the car and
of itself. They've pulled the telematics out of the car.
They want to know if that car was moving when
that shot went off, if that car was moving. Now
we're into another direction that this investigation.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Could take hold on.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That is a bombshell repeat about the car potentially moving
while Robinson allegedly scaled down the side of that wall
while he was shooting, while he was laying in white
and a sniper's nest.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
What yeah, And while we remember when we talked the
other day, Nancy, that the car was at his residence
right there. Well, of course it had to get there.
So they're tracking his phone pings and his phone pings
just kind of my understanding, they're not positive if it
(25:09):
went to a car or if the car was parked,
et cetera. So they now have that car and they
have pulled the data on that car, and that's going
to potentially take them either A it was parked or
B there's something else going on here and somebody is
driving a car to.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Elena Shirazi, joining a senior political reporter Daily Mail, Elena,
we were looking at video and steals of the same
video of the defendant walking through a neighborhood. He had
thought ahead, Elena, as you well know, and changed his outfit.
Take a look at this. This is him walking through
(25:50):
a neighborhood. That's where friends at TMZ in an entirely
different outfit. Now, when he was neiling down and lying
on his stomach, he was wearing what you see on
the right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Now, Wait a minute, eight o seven.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
He's on foot eleven forty nine, his change clothes, his
back on foot.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Where was his car? Did someone drop him at a
drop point and pick him back up? Did he hide
his car somewhere and go back to it? Elena? What
do we know?
Speaker 14 (26:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (26:27):
I mean looking at all of this, including those discord
messages that the FBI is looking through, that sort of
predicted that this would happen, the fact that he was
so entrenched in these groups, also referencing, of course, his
romantic partner, which authorities say he became really radicalized, sort
of impassioned by his views afterwards. So I mean, looking
(26:48):
at this, I mean it started with a note and
will end with a funeral. They recovered the Malser ninety
eight rifle. There was a towel with DNA print there
is enough evidence there. The big question now is was
he working alone? And they do have evidence that they're
(27:11):
looking through now that could potentially point to that. But
we certainly, we certainly will see. He just ditched his
gun in the forest, in the woods before he wins,
so it was premeditated. As you said, he changed his clothes.
It was planned. But he's clearly not an expert because
(27:32):
he left his DNA.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Elena were showing right now.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
You're correct where he ditched the gun, and we had
on the little facts that we knew at the time,
hypothesized that the tree area, the tree line where he
ditched the gun was not up in the mountains where
many people thought he had scanted up into the mountains
pulling an Eric Rudolf, the Olympic bomber. He lived in
the mountains for years before he was caught, but somewhere
(27:59):
close to road. So that leads me to wonder did
someone pick him up in his vehicle after he ditched
the gun. Little did he know a towel is the
perfect conduit for DNA.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Chris mcdonna, you stated that the car.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And its NAV system is being reviewed now to determine
if it was moving at the time Charlie Kirk was murdered.
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
How do they do that?
Speaker 4 (28:31):
So what they do is they pull the navigation system
out as well as some of what they call a
telematic system, and they're able to send that to either
Chronicle or Salt Lake City, where they have also an
FBI office, And in that data you're able to see
exactly what that car is doing, if it's moving, you know,
(28:52):
if it makes if the blinker comes on, et cetera.
There's a tremendous amount of forensic data that can be
had there. And let's not forget that the that Tyler
Robinson at this point also post thomicide bold his roommate
to go, you know, potentially go get that gun. Okay, Now,
(29:16):
why would he do that? What's going on there? And
so this is the angle I think the law enforcement
is running on in terms of trying to get the
bigger circle, because I think that the car and of
itself is going to be very critical in relationship to if,
like we were talking about here, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
If it's moving, if it's right.
Speaker 10 (29:37):
About it, Hey, look his car, I like that in
the possessive who's driving the car Nancy, They've already found
DNA on a towel. This is going to be very
compelling to me. They will search this car thoroughly. Chris
had mentioned the electronics in the car, but I'm interested
in contact Tracey DNA on that steering wheel. I want
(30:00):
to know is there anybody else's DNA in that car
that is not an owner of the vehicle, who's operating
the vehicle, if they've gone down this road relative to
this towel. Remember they found the screwdriver as well that
they say had remnant of DNA. Well, if someone is
using the gear lever, if someone is opening the door
(30:22):
inside of this vehicle, somebody is obviously steering it. I
want to know did they recover any touch DNA inside
of this vehicle? And also are there any latent prints
inside the vehicle? Now we know if he's in a
relationship with this person, it's not beyond understanding that that
individual would occupy that space. However, it opens the door
(30:44):
for other questions forensically, like operating the vehicle. Have you
ever operated this vehicle before? And you begin to press
this individual relative to more information, Well.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Think about it, Jesscott Morgan, here's a great example. I
know you recall the reporter Teresa Halback who was sex assaulted, murdered,
and her body burned in a fire pit in the
backyard of Stephen Avery.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
All that was found were some of her.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Teeth and the studs on the back of her Dacy
Flints jeans. Her vehicle was part at the end of
his auto salvage lot covered up and on the ignition
was his sweat where he can you imagine hunched over
(31:36):
the wheel trying to crank up her car and go
hide it, just sweating onto the ignition, and the LA
there law enforcement got his sweat off the ignition. I mean, yes,
you're right, but here's one thing. I understand everything you're saying,
and you're absolutely correct. The thing I don't understand, Doctor
Bethany Marshall. If somebody calls you after you gunned down
(32:00):
tearing his throat out and say hey, hey, can you
get me a ride, and.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
The person says, oh, yeah, here I come.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I was just circling who and the h A double
al goes.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Along with that.
Speaker 9 (32:13):
See, Nancy, this is where I think the behavioral evidence
is so important. Let's say these two are acting in concert.
What we know about men who are homicidal who act
in concert is usually there's a stronger male who recruits.
Speaker 8 (32:28):
A more vulnerable male. And what we're going to see
if you look.
Speaker 9 (32:32):
At all of the Twitch accounts, how he they were
interacting with people online.
Speaker 8 (32:37):
What I'm interested in.
Speaker 9 (32:39):
Is is it just the purp on Twitch playing violent
games in front of a following, or is it the
two of them.
Speaker 8 (32:50):
Recruiting a following.
Speaker 9 (32:51):
To me, that is so vital and that's going to
be very easy to see Nancy, whose face is there,
who's electronic foot bridge is there? And I also think
of this almost like a small cult where you have
two people who are just getting a ground swell of support.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
As of tonight, the suspect Robinson has stopped cooperating, but men,
a true word.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Is spoken in jest. Take a listen.
Speaker 13 (33:20):
The suspect has not been cooperating so far, and so
we're getting all of this information from family members again again,
people around the suspect.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
Almost immediately after the release, Robinson's friends called him out
in their discord group chat. When asking Robinson where he is,
Robinson shoots back, it's my doppelganger trying to get me
in trouble another for claims Tyler killed Charlie a third,
So just turning Robinson in for the reward, and Robinson sneers,
(33:50):
only if I get a cut.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
He saw the Governor speaking to our friends at NBCA.
Dr Bethany Marshall, help me out here. You just take
a two hundred yard shot and tear the throat out
of a h been father, Okay, and then you're joking
about getting a cut of the reward when you're the killer.
Speaker 9 (34:06):
Actually, Nancy, this does fit the profile of this kind
of a killer, because what it tells me is that
he had some kind of paranoid ideation, meaning that he
felt that Charlie Kirk's presence on this earth was affecting
him negatively in some way. So once he takes him out,
there's a relief phase. There's always a relief phase after
homicide or somebody's calm. We saw Casey Anthony going shopping
(34:30):
kind of dancing on the other person's brave, So I
think that's really probative here that the fact that they're
joking with each other because the group is getting their
jolly's off. They're very happy that this has happened.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
It's almost as if he's giddy. Li wasn't to this.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
The chat continues, joking, now, Luigi Mangioni was caught. Whatever
you do, don't go to a McDonald's anytime soon. Robinson
replying he better get rid of this manifesto an exact
copy rifle I have lying around before, insisting the shooter
is clearly from California.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Elena Shirazi, joining a senior political reporter Daily Mill, explain
they are comparing the shooting of Charlie Kirk to the
shooting of Brian Thompson, the health CEO.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Correct. Yeah, they're trying to draw.
Speaker 7 (35:20):
Comparisons there and just kind of make some comments in
jest for Luis Gimi and Ngioni, who was arrested Adam McDonald's.
So you know, they responded with a punchline to that.
So the question is if they truly believe that Robinson
didn't do it, you know, that could be a part
(35:40):
of the reason why they were joking. If they did
know it was him, that's an entire story in and
of its own, but you can imagine what was going
through a second.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You're right, Elena, But I want to point out to
doctor Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
They're comparing him to Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Who we have on VDA shooting Brian Thompson dead, sneaking
up on him like a coward and.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Shooting him dead, much the way.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Charlie Kirk was shot dead at a distance, so the
shooter couldn't be hurt or attacked.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
It's easy to shoot somebody, gun them down with a
scope in a long.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Runing's rifle, right, And here he is talking about, yeah,
I better not. I better get rid of my manifesto
like Manngioni's manifesto, and I got to get rid of
the copy rifle. He's not saying, what are you talking about.
I didn't do this. I would never kill anybody.
Speaker 8 (36:39):
You know, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (36:40):
If you dress it up as a homicide for some
kind of ideological reason, you just rationalize to yourself that
it's okay. But the end of the day, homicide is homicide, okay.
And I think of homicide in a case like this
he talks about hatred. I think underneath the hatred is
basic envy. Charles Kirk had a great life, a great wife,
(37:02):
two beautiful children. He had the public stage. He was beloved.
It was kind of a provocateur, but people flocked to
debate with him and to hear what he had to say.
And I think that these purpse and I'm going to
put an s on the end of this because I
think they all polluted. Even though the group didn't want
to get their hands dirty. They say one soldier out,
(37:23):
it's a group. I think there's basic envy towards somebody
who was leading a great life.
Speaker 8 (37:29):
They couldn't stand it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Does that fit in with many of these cohorts of
his leading a secret life as a furry?
Speaker 8 (37:41):
We don't, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (37:41):
I'm kind of sad that furries have gotten drawn into
this because by and large, the furries are sort of
a diverse community of people who are fun loving. They
like to have personal expression. They talk about wearing fur suits,
which they'll spend months making.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Charlie Kirk had his throat torn out.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I appreciate your defance of the furries, but can we
please focus on the murder?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (38:06):
Well, Nancy, there is a small portion of the furry
community they talk about expressing their personalities wearing their fur suits,
but a small port a portion of them have fetishes
in that dressing up as an animal is very sexualized. Now.
Speaker 8 (38:22):
Interestingly, the shooter made.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
A reference to his bulge, telling me that he equated
shooting Charlie kirk with having an erection, meaning that there
was a sexual thrill in shooting him in the throat.
So we have envy, we have school shooting psychology. We
also have sexual excitement, which tells me that you have
(38:45):
a group of followers online who in some ways have
also fetishized killing. I don't think this makes the furry
community look very good. I don't think this has to
do with furries.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I think this has to do with the.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Little nobody's running from his congeniality right now, Doctor Bethany,
And what I tried to ask you was is part
of a rich fantasy life, pretending you're an animal. Okay,
if you're already living in another realm, is this just
(39:18):
a part of your pretend world?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I mean Kirkus did.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And whether they were going along gleefully, it wasn't real.
They were going along with it in real life, whether
they meant to or not. The seed Doctor presumes you
intend the natural consequence of your act. And when you
help encourage eight and bet someone to commit and murder,
(39:43):
whether you're pretending or it's your fantasy, doesn't matter. The
law assumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
And I want to point out that so many people
are gleeful over murder.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Listen to this.
Speaker 6 (40:12):
Real world consequences for hateful responses to Kirk's murder. A
surgeon resigned after loudly proclaiming Kirk got what he deserved.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
DC canceled a.
Speaker 8 (40:22):
Comic book series after just one issue.
Speaker 6 (40:24):
Because the artists posted I hope the bullets okay. As
quickly as they ran to social media to celebrate Kirk's death,
many returned with news of their firings, many extremely angry.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Or in tears over the shocking development.
Speaker 10 (40:39):
To hold me dead, go help me dead?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
He hold me dead? Good cravy, What was that? Said?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
They?
Speaker 1 (40:49):
What was that? Well?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
That was eighteen year old At Cameron Giselle, who approached
a student on campus who was standing there holding a
sign that said rest in peace, Charlie Kirk and was
decorated with photos of him. This was one student by himself,
standing there memorializing Kirk, not really speaking with anyone unless
(41:13):
somebody approached him specifically, and Giselle felt the need to
attack this person for standing out there with a memorial sign.
So you saw her insane song that she was singing.
She was getting in his face as other students gotten.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
But you're glossing over the fact.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Sydney.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
She said, if your homie did, he got shot in
the head.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
If your homie did, That's what she was saying.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And that is from at as private story on TikTok. Now, Okay,
I want you to see the nurse that called this
took some guts, called a surgeon on celebrating Kirk's murder.
Speaker 14 (41:58):
No, I'm not fired as of right now. Now, right now,
I am suspended and definitely unpaid. Why so I walked
into the nurses station and I just had learned about
Charlie Kirk. I saw this guy, I didn't know who
he was at the time, and he was standing there
(42:19):
and celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, saying how he
deserved it. He hated Charlie Kirk and he had it
coming to him.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
That from our friends at Fox.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
That took a lot of guts to call out a surgeon.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
But there's war.
Speaker 9 (42:34):
So we came into an order earlier for the poster for.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Our vigil tonight. Yes, for somebody that it's not.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
That year, it's propaganda. I'm sorry, we don't print that here.
What was that about Sydney?
Speaker 3 (42:51):
So they were trying to hold a candlelight visual for
Charlie Kirk and they wanted posters printed at office depot
for that vigil, and these employees refused to print them,
calling them propaganda. So they were very pleasant in their conversation,
but Office Max Corporate had a huge problem with their behavior.
(43:15):
FedEx ended up printing the posters for free after seeing
this video, and those employees have been fired.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
That video is from m at md a pere noo
on X. But here's the rub to Franz.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Borghart's a veteran trial lawyer joining us out at baton
rouge Franz, here's the deal. We may disagree with their
behavior and what they're doing and what they're saying. We
may think it's bloodthirsty and disgusting, much like we feel
when somebody burns the flag or has opposed to it says
f America, or burns a beloved figure or political figure
(43:54):
in effigy. We don't like it, but it's the First Amendment.
So now refusing to do your job at Office Max
or wherever that was is a whole nother can of worms.
But these people dancing on Charlie Kirk's grave are disgusting.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Whether you agree with.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Kirk or not doesn't matter. The guy was murdered, his
children don't have a father. I don't think they can
be prosecuted, not at all, for saying whatever they want
to say.
Speaker 15 (44:24):
So here's where the rubber beats the road, Nancy. If
they're in a state where there's inciting violence laws, and
generally those can be felonies, those are not going to
withstand the First Amendment defense. Can't shout fire in a
crowded theater. You cannot try to incite violence at a memorial.
People who do stupid stuff at their jobs, they're going
(44:44):
to get fired. But depending on where these people are
acting and what they are saying, they may not be
able to escape some kind of arrest or criminal prosecution.
And look, justifiably, if you're trying to incite violence at
a memorial, I think you shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
A Hey, you're preaching to the choir.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
The investigation into the assassination of Charlie Kirk husband.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And father goes on.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
If you know or think you know anything about the
plot to murder Kirk, please call toll free eight hundred,
call FBI eight hundred, two two five, five, three two
four or eight zero one five seventy nine fourteen hundred.
(45:32):
You can go to tips dot FBI dot gov. And
now we remember an American hero. Deputy Sheriff Andres Lahara,
Citrus County Sheriff's Office, killed in the line of duty
after fourteen years of service. Leaves behind a grieving wife, Michelle,
(45:53):
and two sons without a father.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Vincent and Nicholas.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
American hero Deputy Sheriff On Dress Lira Nancy Grace signing
off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Did he have help the Charlie Kirk shooting suspects Friends
and Furries tonight under the microscope? I, Nancy Grace, this
is Crime Stories.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when
I started hearing of Ussure playing and screaming to get down.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I was arfied. He thought it out. He planned it
out that much that he knew he had to change
clothes to blend in.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
And it hit him in the.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Coroner and artery and that cause to lead out almost.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Immediately as the defendant, Robinson is facing formal charges in
Utah County Court. Interesting not federal charges, state charge, but
the death penalty is the death penalty is the death penalty,
whether it's state firing squad or the federal electric chair.
(01:09):
That said, facing formal charges as predicted that essentially mirror
the charges under which he was arrested, that specifically being
the murder of Charlie Kirk, a thirty one year old
husband and father of two, for what motive, political hatred,
(01:31):
ideology differences really at this.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Hour, as we go to air.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
The defendants friends and Furries under a microscope. Did they
know what was happening? What are they clairvoyant? They predicted
it online? How did they do that without knowledge? Did
they actually help him affect the murder? That and so
(02:00):
much more we are learning, specifically.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Who got rid of the note? Listen.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
The suspect wrote a ote saying I have the opportunity
to take out Charlie Kirk and I'm going to take it.
That note was written before the shooting. At the note,
even though it has been destroyed, we have found forensic
evidence of the note and we have confirmed what that
note says because of our aggressive interview posture at the.
Speaker 6 (02:24):
FBI, Robinson communicated he had an opportunity to take out
Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And he was going to do it.
Speaker 6 (02:31):
Robinson reportedly texted the message and left a note in
his Saint George apartment. The note was destroyed, but investigators
discovered its contents.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Through an interview.
Speaker 6 (02:41):
The FBI is now investigating if anyone refused to intervene
or even helped him commit the murder.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
The sound of FBI Director Cash Patel from our friends
at Fox. A lot of people are piling on Patel
right now. Could we focus on the killer? I will
get to Patel in a moment, but right now it's
all about the evidence as formal charges being handed down
against Robinson.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What note? How did it get destroyed? What did it say?
And why would someone destroy it?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
If Robinson himself did not destroy it, who did? Sounds
like a codefendant to me, straight out to senior political
reporter Daily Mail, Elena Shirazi, Elena, thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
What note? Yeah?
Speaker 7 (03:29):
So you just heard FBI director Cash Hotel on Fox
News on Monday say that Robinson wrote that note, reportedly
saying quote, I have the opportunity to take out Charlie
Kirk and I'm going to do it. Cash Bettel also
said that the suspect wrote this note before the shooting.
There was evidence that it existed. It was in their
(03:52):
home that he lived with with his romantic partner. But
even though Patel says it was destroyed, which there were questions,
as you brunt up, Nancy, how was it destroyed? Who
destroyed it? Because that is obviously crucial evidence. They've still
found forensic evidence.
Speaker 8 (04:09):
Of the notes and they've confirmed what.
Speaker 7 (04:12):
The notes said because of aggressive interviews at the FBI.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Elena Sharazzi, you are absolutely correct, But I don't like
the way that that just tripped off your tongue.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I want to.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Get every single word you said, all the points you
were making, because to me, every one of the points
that you so quickly recounted is a point of evidence,
you know, to you.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Joseph Scott Morgan's joining me.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I want to follow up on everything that Elina Sharazzi
just said. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
head of an incredible program there, author of Blood Beneath
My Feet on Amazon's Star and you hit series podcasts
Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
That's said.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
He is a death investigator and forensics expert that has
handled literally thousands of cases. Joe Scott, why didn't think
I just take out an add on third Avenue?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I did it?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean to leave a written note. Now, that's something
I would argue in closing arguments. But can we talk
about the fact that the FBI director said it was destroyed,
but that their investigation led to its contents. I smell
a co defendant who destroyed that note? And how did
(05:38):
they recreate that note?
Speaker 9 (05:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (05:40):
Good question. I'm wondering if this is a physical note,
like a handwritten note, I'm wondering if they have found
partials of this note that they could have reassembled in
some way, and we don't know what destroyed means. Does
that mean that it's torn up? Does that mean that
it was burned. All of these factors are going to
play into it. So is there a chance that there
(06:01):
could have been some kind of digital remnant? I have
no idea.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Hey Jo Scott, let's look at each three of those alternatives,
because we know that they've been able to recreate it.
So if it was torn up, simple some idgit it's
I'm just going out on a limb here and hypothesizing
it was either.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Him or is your roommate that tore up the note?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yes, that said it could have been somebody else that
happened to be in their apartment that tore up the note.
If all it was was torn up, we could put
that right back together.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Again, no problem.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
If it were burned, different thing that can be recreated too,
And it's.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Really not that hard.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You've been on plenty of arsenal scenes, as have I.
When something is burned, very often, unless the ashes have
been scattered, you can still read what's on the ashes.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
That is a fact.
Speaker 10 (06:55):
Yeah, and we have to understand that the evidence bons
team from the FBI, that by the way, is very good,
was on top of everything here, working hand in hand
with state police. They would have been very careful at
all of these scenes. Remember, Nancy, I think that people
get lost in the sauce here thinking that there's only
one crime scene. Nancy, You've got multiple scenes here, with
(07:19):
not just the shooting site, but also the homes that
are involved, the vehicles that are involved. There's all kinds
of secondary and tertiary scenes involved in this. So this
would have been an all hands on deck. They would
have treated this note let's just say it wasn't an
incinerated status. They would have treated it as if it's
a fragile document from the distant past. One other thing
(07:42):
I was thinking about if this was written on a
notepad perhaps, and they used a tremendous amount of pressure
when writing, which a lot of people do. If you
find that pad, you can reconstruct it based upon the
impressions left on the underlying paper still remaining.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, smart, smart Joe Scott. And of course here here's
the other altar of Joe Scott not to be a
dead horse, but digitally.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
They said it was a note. They did not say
it was a text for an email. But if there's
some digital proof of that note, such as, hey, get
rid of the note I left on my desk, there
you go, there you go, proof of the note?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You know, let me go out to a veteran trial lawyer.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Franz Borghart, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor at junk Louisiana
State University at Borgheart Law Firm dot com.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Franz, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
What if I call you on the phone and go, hey, hey, hey,
I left a note. I think it's on my desk
under my laptop. Could you destroy it right now? Okay,
and you destroy it, what can I charge you with
after our detection place?
Speaker 11 (09:01):
So I've now entered the realm of obstruction of justice,
possibly aiding in a betting in federal court. Nancy, it's
a different crime, but it's all in that family of accomplice.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
While you may not be able.
Speaker 11 (09:15):
To be charged with murder, you're certainly looking at serious
charges on what might be one of the most serious
public murders and quite some time. So you are in
a heap of.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Trouble in your jurisdiction for obstruction of justice? What's the sentence?
Speaker 11 (09:32):
It could be five to twenty for obstruction. There's different
flavors of obstruction. There's like a lesser one, but five
to twenty and you better believe Nancy, they're going to
be going for the twenty.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
You know what I predict, Franz Borgart, I predict the
furries and friends are going to talk. They're going to
talk rather than do twenty twenty hard on obstruction.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
There, and as I made about the roommate maybe being
transgender and transitioning, and as friends are furries.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Don't care. I don't care who they are, what they believe,
what their sex preference is.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I don't care what color they are, what religion or
no religion they are. All I care about is did
they have a hand in Charlie Kirk's brutal and public murder.
That's all I care about, guys. There's more more evidence
pouring out. Let's take a listen to the friends, especially
(10:35):
the friends on that discord chat room.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Being under the microscope right now.
Speaker 12 (10:42):
Listen, did they say it, hear it and think it
was some kind of a joke. That's what we're trying
to find out now. But I promise you if there's
a larger network here, we're going to get that out
to the public as soon as we can. Did they
know where they sure this or did they hear this
and just write it off? That's what we're going to
have to find out, and that's what we're investigating.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Up from our friends at Fox straight out to Sidney
Sumner joining us in addition to Elina Shirazi with Daily Mail.
Sidney Sumner Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
What were the friends clairvoyant?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Because didn't they post several of them something big is
going to happen on September eleven, some of them.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Even naming the place.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It'd be funny if someone like Charlie Kirk got shot
on September ten. Laughing my ass off? Really, you know what,
when you're hauled in for questioning Mushy, I don't think
you're going to be laughing your ass off then. And
there's more what about it, Sidney Sumner? Oop, here's another one. Yeah,
(11:50):
September ten will be a very interesting day. I plead
the fifth, Really, why do you plead the fifth? If
you haven't done anything wrong, and there's so much more
to say. That's on August the sixth, August to six,
they're predicting something on the.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Tent and then we effing did it.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh, you guys have something big coming soon. Just be
sure you check the news. You'll know it when you
see it.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Who are these people?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Sidney Sumner right, Apparently these are all people that are
being investigated as part of Robinson's network that may have
known about this. I mean, I don't see a way
to defend against Oh, I didn't know anything was happening.
It seems like you did.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Look at this.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Look at this. Charlie Kirk is coming to my college tomorrow.
I really hope someone evaporates him. Literally, let's just say
same person speaking omar. Let's just say something big will
happen tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
And look look at all the people that have reposted it,
that have hearted it.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I don't think they're clairvoyant. Franz Borghart. It's just like
Scott Peterson. Oh, here's another one calls dropout, does not
know what's coming tomorrow. They're referring to Charlie Kirk. Biskey
didn't get into the military academies.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Be ready.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
This isn't a threat, it's a promise. That's Jackson, Jackson,
I want to haul you in by your toenails and
find out why you said that.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I mean, we effing did it.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Charlie Kirk has died. Oh, Franz Borgheart Just like Scott Peterson,
they're not clairvoyant. Recall Peterson said to his lover, this
is going to be my first Christmas without my wife.
I'm gonna have my first Christmas as a widow, and
then bam he did because he murdered her and their
(14:00):
unborn baby.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Connor. Same thing here. These people are not clairvoyance.
Speaker 11 (14:05):
I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 10 (14:06):
I don't know that.
Speaker 11 (14:07):
Their quote unquote co conspirators says they knew and didn't
say anything. Absolutely foul, absolutely discussing. And you know, if
everybody's going to start singing at some point, especially you
toss a fire and squad seat, they're not afraid to
put someone down, and everybody's going to start singing, and
all this forensic.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Evidence, all of it, all of it, it's.
Speaker 11 (14:31):
Going to be used against not only the shooter but
also these individuals.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, what about aiding and a betting. Wouldn't that qualify?
Is aiding and a betting cheering someone on in their crime.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Not put Franz Borghart up.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Look, I know that you're coming at this from a
different lens, through a different lens than I am. But
just knowing about something is not necessarily crime. But if
you aid in a bet, if you further that because
spiracy at all, if you encourage encourage is listed in
the Aiding and embedded Statute. The black and white letter
(15:10):
of the law says, if you aid a bet.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Their commas, you don't need everyone.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Aid comma a bet, comma, encourage comma. If you encourage
a murder, you're in it up to hear Borghart.
Speaker 11 (15:27):
Well, the federal government and the state are going to
have leverage over these people, to be sure, even if
it's not a strong aiding and a betting case, Nancy,
they're going to be able to say, you know what,
we're going to start against the wall and see if
we can get to sick. And that's why I think
more likely than not, these lower level people these and
I say lower level because they weren't holding the gun,
(15:47):
but they may be just as responsible. I think that
they're going to cooperate and try to cut deals that
take death penalty off the table.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
To doctor Bethany Marshall, joining us renown psycho analysts out
of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her
now on peacock at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,
Who are the ghules that stand by and let a young.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Father of two.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Get shot in the throat, tearing his throat out and
then they cheer after forget what they did, after the
aiding and embedding, the encouraging this.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
That is a crime, a felony yancy.
Speaker 9 (16:28):
These ghouls are people who are also homicidal. You don't
shear somebody on unless you also have homicidal ideation. Now,
what's interesting about this shooting is it has some aspects
of a.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
School shooting, not all.
Speaker 9 (16:40):
It's an assassination as well, and that he was standing
at the top of a building. It was an efficient
of barrel quality, scaring students, creating a power differential in school.
Shooters tend to confess online and everybody overlooks it now
because they're afraid to turn the guy in, or they
minimize or discount it. What's interesting and different about this
(17:01):
is this Purp was actually recruiting followers, and the followers
willingly went along. And then I think one of the
ways that he recruited followers was through gaming and having
people watch him playing violent games, and so he was
kind of creating an army of support. And I'm going
(17:23):
to say these people wished Kirk dead as much as
the Purp did. They just didn't have to pick up
the gun and do it themselves, but they certainly egged
him on and pushed him towards it, And in my mind,
that is complicity at a psychological level.
Speaker 12 (17:42):
Did they say it, hear it and think it was
some kind of a joke. That's what we're trying to
find out now. But I promise you, if there's a
larger network here, we're going to get that out to
the public as soon as we can. Did they know
where they sure this or did they hear this and
just write it off. That's what we're going to have
to find out, and that's what we're investigating.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
He changed clothes to us to void so as to
avoid detection. He covered his tracks, he parked far away,
he hid his weapon, He had to go back and
retrieve his weapon. He tried to cover his face. Everything
indicates he knew what he was doing was wrong and
(18:23):
he tried to hide it afterwards. So this guy, the
Kirk suspect, he ain't all that in a bag of chips.
Let me throw a technical legal term at you, idiot,
ange and I we're learning a potential motive hatred old
as dirt.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
In one text sent by the.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Allegislator, he was asked why he said some hatred cannot
be negotiated with. The alleged shator says, some hatred cannot
be negotiated with. And you know what that says to me,
(19:06):
Maybe you won't get a plea negotiation. Think about it.
I wonder if his own words will be thrown back
in his face. Will this be a death penalty case
in the end, or will it fizz out like coburger
before the public knows what really happened in the degree
of planning involved.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
In Kirk's murder.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Right now we are learning formal charges and they mirror
the charges on which he was arrested.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
This is how it goes.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Police have pc problem cause to arrest you. The arrest
is for let's just say, murder and weapons charges. Generally speaking,
the formal charges and indictment will mirror what the cops
used to arrest you for simple Now, sometimes additional events
(20:03):
will come to light and there may be different or
additional charges. That said, that's exactly what is happening in
this case. There are additional charges, but the one that
really matters is murder. Now we are learning that the
shooter was apparently radicalized online city summer. Before we discuss that,
(20:23):
could you just remind everybody how many thousands of hours
the alleged sheater was online.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Well, we know from his Twitch channel, so this is
the amount of streaming games and he's played that he's
publicly put out there for everyone to watch more than
two thousand hours. That's over ten years. But when you
do the math there, that's an hour a day. Lease.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Now, when you say that that was the amount we
know of that was streamed, a lot of people are
not familiar with what that means, nor should they be
familiar with it. They're out working and having lives. My
understanding is he would play online, and there were two
thousand hours of him playing online that he posted.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Or that people could watch as he streamed it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
That doesn't include all the online activity that he didn't
share streaming.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
It's absolutely right. So Twitch is like Facebook for video games,
So it's like streaming yourself live on Facebook, and people
can tune in and watch as you're playing the video game.
So there's no telling how many hours he played, not publicly,
just on his own devices without streaming it to everyone.
This is only a fraction of what he shared publicly.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So the reason I'm telling you about this is because
many suspect he was radicalized online, steeped in political hatred online.
Speaker 13 (21:55):
Listen, I will say that that person has been very
cooperative with authorities.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
An anonymous family member of the person Robinson lives with
believes Lance Twigs radicalized Robinson. The woman says Twigs is
very low contact with their family and hates them for
their political and religious beliefs. She blames immersion and online
gaming culture for some of the personality changes seen in
the roommates since moving in together, but her gut tells
(22:22):
her Twig provided the fuel behind Robinson's sudden extremism.
Speaker 13 (22:27):
There was kind of that that deep dark Internet, the
Reddit culture and these other dark places of the Internet
where this person was going deep.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That from our friends, that's the Utah Governor Spister Cox
from NBCIT speaking earlier crime stories with Nancy Grace, Chris
McDonald joining me, Director Cole Case Foundation, star of the
(23:00):
Interview Room on YouTube, but former homicide detective working over
three hundred homicides plus more. Chris mc donald, motive doesn't matter. Now,
I know that sounds off base, but the reality is
motive does not have to be proved by the state period.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
However jury's like to hear it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
What do you think about this radicalized online You know, Nancy.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
There's a couple of things happening right now that are
fluid in this investigation. They are scraping the internet for
every click, every keyboard click from mister Robinson's devices, and
those keyboard clicks will tell us any kind of messaging
that may or may not have been going back and
(23:48):
forth to the streaming platforms where these gamers hang out.
The roommate hung out on a variety of different type
of streaming platforms. One of them was Twitch, the other
one was what they call steam Steam. I've been on
the ground the last three days here in Utah. This
(24:09):
is where the investigation is focusing. There's one other point
that they're trying to establish and that's the car and
of itself. They've pulled the telematics out of the car.
They want to know if that car was moving when
that shot went off, if that car was moving. Now
we're into another direction that this investigation.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Could take hold on.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That is a bombshell repeat about the car potentially moving
while Robinson allegedly scaled down the side of that wall
while he was shooting, while he was laying in white
and a sniper's nest.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
What yeah, And while we remember when we talked the
other day, Nancy, that the car was at his residence
right there. Well, of course it had to get there.
So they're tracking his phone pings and his phone pings
just kind of my understanding, they're not positive if it
(25:09):
went to a car or if the car was parked,
et cetera. So they now have that car and they
have pulled the data on that car, and that's going
to potentially take them either A it was parked or
B there's something else going on here and somebody is
driving a car to.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Elena Shirazi, joining a senior political reporter Daily Mail, Elena,
we were looking at video and steals of the same
video of the defendant walking through a neighborhood. He had
thought ahead, Elena, as you well know, and changed his outfit.
Take a look at this. This is him walking through
(25:50):
a neighborhood. That's where friends at TMZ in an entirely
different outfit. Now, when he was neiling down and lying
on his stomach, he was wearing what you see on
the right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Now, Wait a minute, eight o seven.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
He's on foot eleven forty nine, his change clothes, his
back on foot.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Where was his car? Did someone drop him at a
drop point and pick him back up? Did he hide
his car somewhere and go back to it? Elena? What
do we know?
Speaker 14 (26:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (26:27):
I mean looking at all of this, including those discord
messages that the FBI is looking through, that sort of
predicted that this would happen, the fact that he was
so entrenched in these groups, also referencing, of course, his
romantic partner, which authorities say he became really radicalized, sort
of impassioned by his views afterwards. So I mean, looking
(26:48):
at this, I mean it started with a note and
will end with a funeral. They recovered the Malser ninety
eight rifle. There was a towel with DNA print there
is enough evidence there. The big question now is was
he working alone? And they do have evidence that they're
(27:11):
looking through now that could potentially point to that. But
we certainly, we certainly will see. He just ditched his
gun in the forest, in the woods before he wins,
so it was premeditated. As you said, he changed his clothes.
It was planned. But he's clearly not an expert because
(27:32):
he left his DNA.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Elena were showing right now.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
You're correct where he ditched the gun, and we had
on the little facts that we knew at the time,
hypothesized that the tree area, the tree line where he
ditched the gun was not up in the mountains where
many people thought he had scanted up into the mountains
pulling an Eric Rudolf, the Olympic bomber. He lived in
the mountains for years before he was caught, but somewhere
(27:59):
close to road. So that leads me to wonder did
someone pick him up in his vehicle after he ditched
the gun. Little did he know a towel is the
perfect conduit for DNA.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Chris mcdonna, you stated that the car.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And its NAV system is being reviewed now to determine
if it was moving at the time Charlie Kirk was murdered.
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
How do they do that?
Speaker 4 (28:31):
So what they do is they pull the navigation system
out as well as some of what they call a
telematic system, and they're able to send that to either
Chronicle or Salt Lake City, where they have also an
FBI office, And in that data you're able to see
exactly what that car is doing, if it's moving, you know,
(28:52):
if it makes if the blinker comes on, et cetera.
There's a tremendous amount of forensic data that can be
had there. And let's not forget that the that Tyler
Robinson at this point also post thomicide bold his roommate
to go, you know, potentially go get that gun. Okay, Now,
(29:16):
why would he do that? What's going on there? And
so this is the angle I think the law enforcement
is running on in terms of trying to get the
bigger circle, because I think that the car and of
itself is going to be very critical in relationship to if,
like we were talking about here, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
If it's moving, if it's right.
Speaker 10 (29:37):
About it, Hey, look his car, I like that in
the possessive who's driving the car Nancy, They've already found
DNA on a towel. This is going to be very
compelling to me. They will search this car thoroughly. Chris
had mentioned the electronics in the car, but I'm interested
in contact Tracey DNA on that steering wheel. I want
(30:00):
to know is there anybody else's DNA in that car
that is not an owner of the vehicle, who's operating
the vehicle, if they've gone down this road relative to
this towel. Remember they found the screwdriver as well that
they say had remnant of DNA. Well, if someone is
using the gear lever, if someone is opening the door
(30:22):
inside of this vehicle, somebody is obviously steering it. I
want to know did they recover any touch DNA inside
of this vehicle? And also are there any latent prints
inside the vehicle? Now we know if he's in a
relationship with this person, it's not beyond understanding that that
individual would occupy that space. However, it opens the door
(30:44):
for other questions forensically, like operating the vehicle. Have you
ever operated this vehicle before? And you begin to press
this individual relative to more information, Well.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Think about it, Jesscott Morgan, here's a great example. I
know you recall the reporter Teresa Halback who was sex assaulted, murdered,
and her body burned in a fire pit in the
backyard of Stephen Avery.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
All that was found were some of her.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Teeth and the studs on the back of her Dacy
Flints jeans. Her vehicle was part at the end of
his auto salvage lot covered up and on the ignition
was his sweat where he can you imagine hunched over
(31:36):
the wheel trying to crank up her car and go
hide it, just sweating onto the ignition, and the LA
there law enforcement got his sweat off the ignition. I mean, yes,
you're right, but here's one thing. I understand everything you're saying,
and you're absolutely correct. The thing I don't understand, Doctor
Bethany Marshall. If somebody calls you after you gunned down
(32:00):
tearing his throat out and say hey, hey, can you
get me a ride, and.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
The person says, oh, yeah, here I come.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
I was just circling who and the h A double
al goes.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Along with that.
Speaker 9 (32:13):
See, Nancy, this is where I think the behavioral evidence
is so important. Let's say these two are acting in concert.
What we know about men who are homicidal who act
in concert is usually there's a stronger male who recruits.
Speaker 8 (32:28):
A more vulnerable male. And what we're going to see
if you look.
Speaker 9 (32:32):
At all of the Twitch accounts, how he they were
interacting with people online.
Speaker 8 (32:37):
What I'm interested in.
Speaker 9 (32:39):
Is is it just the purp on Twitch playing violent
games in front of a following, or is it the
two of them.
Speaker 8 (32:50):
Recruiting a following.
Speaker 9 (32:51):
To me, that is so vital and that's going to
be very easy to see Nancy, whose face is there,
who's electronic foot bridge is there? And I also think
of this almost like a small cult where you have
two people who are just getting a ground swell of support.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
As of tonight, the suspect Robinson has stopped cooperating, but men,
a true word.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Is spoken in jest. Take a listen.
Speaker 13 (33:20):
The suspect has not been cooperating so far, and so
we're getting all of this information from family members again again,
people around the suspect.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
Almost immediately after the release, Robinson's friends called him out
in their discord group chat. When asking Robinson where he is,
Robinson shoots back, it's my doppelganger trying to get me
in trouble another for claims Tyler killed Charlie a third,
So just turning Robinson in for the reward, and Robinson sneers,
(33:50):
only if I get a cut.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
He saw the Governor speaking to our friends at NBCA.
Dr Bethany Marshall, help me out here. You just take
a two hundred yard shot and tear the throat out
of a h been father, Okay, and then you're joking
about getting a cut of the reward when you're the killer.
Speaker 9 (34:06):
Actually, Nancy, this does fit the profile of this kind
of a killer, because what it tells me is that
he had some kind of paranoid ideation, meaning that he
felt that Charlie Kirk's presence on this earth was affecting
him negatively in some way. So once he takes him out,
there's a relief phase. There's always a relief phase after
homicide or somebody's calm. We saw Casey Anthony going shopping
(34:30):
kind of dancing on the other person's brave, So I
think that's really probative here that the fact that they're
joking with each other because the group is getting their
jolly's off. They're very happy that this has happened.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
It's almost as if he's giddy. Li wasn't to this.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
The chat continues, joking, now, Luigi Mangioni was caught. Whatever
you do, don't go to a McDonald's anytime soon. Robinson
replying he better get rid of this manifesto an exact
copy rifle I have lying around before, insisting the shooter
is clearly from California.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Elena Shirazi, joining a senior political reporter Daily Mill, explain
they are comparing the shooting of Charlie Kirk to the
shooting of Brian Thompson, the health CEO.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Correct. Yeah, they're trying to draw.
Speaker 7 (35:20):
Comparisons there and just kind of make some comments in
jest for Luis Gimi and Ngioni, who was arrested Adam McDonald's.
So you know, they responded with a punchline to that.
So the question is if they truly believe that Robinson
didn't do it, you know, that could be a part
(35:40):
of the reason why they were joking. If they did
know it was him, that's an entire story in and
of its own, but you can imagine what was going
through a second.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
You're right, Elena, But I want to point out to
doctor Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
They're comparing him to Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Who we have on VDA shooting Brian Thompson dead, sneaking
up on him like a coward and.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Shooting him dead, much the way.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Charlie Kirk was shot dead at a distance, so the
shooter couldn't be hurt or attacked.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
It's easy to shoot somebody, gun them down with a
scope in a long.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Runing's rifle, right, And here he is talking about, yeah,
I better not. I better get rid of my manifesto
like Manngioni's manifesto, and I got to get rid of
the copy rifle. He's not saying, what are you talking about.
I didn't do this. I would never kill anybody.
Speaker 8 (36:39):
You know, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (36:40):
If you dress it up as a homicide for some
kind of ideological reason, you just rationalize to yourself that
it's okay. But the end of the day, homicide is homicide, okay.
And I think of homicide in a case like this
he talks about hatred. I think underneath the hatred is
basic envy. Charles Kirk had a great life, a great wife,
(37:02):
two beautiful children. He had the public stage. He was beloved.
It was kind of a provocateur, but people flocked to
debate with him and to hear what he had to say.
And I think that these purpse and I'm going to
put an s on the end of this because I
think they all polluted. Even though the group didn't want
to get their hands dirty. They say one soldier out,
(37:23):
it's a group. I think there's basic envy towards somebody
who was leading a great life.
Speaker 8 (37:29):
They couldn't stand it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Does that fit in with many of these cohorts of
his leading a secret life as a furry?
Speaker 8 (37:41):
We don't, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (37:41):
I'm kind of sad that furries have gotten drawn into
this because by and large, the furries are sort of
a diverse community of people who are fun loving. They
like to have personal expression. They talk about wearing fur suits,
which they'll spend months making.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Charlie Kirk had his throat torn out.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
I appreciate your defance of the furries, but can we
please focus on the murder?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (38:06):
Well, Nancy, there is a small portion of the furry
community they talk about expressing their personalities wearing their fur suits,
but a small port a portion of them have fetishes
in that dressing up as an animal is very sexualized. Now.
Speaker 8 (38:22):
Interestingly, the shooter made.
Speaker 9 (38:24):
A reference to his bulge, telling me that he equated
shooting Charlie kirk with having an erection, meaning that there
was a sexual thrill in shooting him in the throat.
So we have envy, we have school shooting psychology. We
also have sexual excitement, which tells me that you have
(38:45):
a group of followers online who in some ways have
also fetishized killing. I don't think this makes the furry
community look very good. I don't think this has to
do with furries.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I think this has to do with the.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Little nobody's running from his congeniality right now, Doctor Bethany,
And what I tried to ask you was is part
of a rich fantasy life, pretending you're an animal. Okay,
if you're already living in another realm, is this just
(39:18):
a part of your pretend world?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I mean Kirkus did.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And whether they were going along gleefully, it wasn't real.
They were going along with it in real life, whether
they meant to or not. The seed Doctor presumes you
intend the natural consequence of your act. And when you
help encourage eight and bet someone to commit and murder,
(39:43):
whether you're pretending or it's your fantasy, doesn't matter. The
law assumes you intend the natural consequence of your act.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
And I want to point out that so many people
are gleeful over murder.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Listen to this.
Speaker 6 (40:12):
Real world consequences for hateful responses to Kirk's murder. A
surgeon resigned after loudly proclaiming Kirk got what he deserved.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
DC canceled a.
Speaker 8 (40:22):
Comic book series after just one issue.
Speaker 6 (40:24):
Because the artists posted I hope the bullets okay. As
quickly as they ran to social media to celebrate Kirk's death,
many returned with news of their firings, many extremely angry.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Or in tears over the shocking development.
Speaker 10 (40:39):
To hold me dead, go help me dead?
Speaker 1 (40:42):
He hold me dead? Good cravy, What was that? Said?
Speaker 2 (40:49):
They?
Speaker 1 (40:49):
What was that? Well?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
That was eighteen year old At Cameron Giselle, who approached
a student on campus who was standing there holding a
sign that said rest in peace, Charlie Kirk and was
decorated with photos of him. This was one student by himself,
standing there memorializing Kirk, not really speaking with anyone unless
(41:13):
somebody approached him specifically, and Giselle felt the need to
attack this person for standing out there with a memorial sign.
So you saw her insane song that she was singing.
She was getting in his face as other students gotten.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
But you're glossing over the fact.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Sydney.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
She said, if your homie did, he got shot in
the head.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
If your homie did, That's what she was saying.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And that is from at as private story on TikTok. Now, Okay,
I want you to see the nurse that called this
took some guts, called a surgeon on celebrating Kirk's murder.
Speaker 14 (41:58):
No, I'm not fired as of right now. Now, right now,
I am suspended and definitely unpaid. Why so I walked
into the nurses station and I just had learned about
Charlie Kirk. I saw this guy, I didn't know who
he was at the time, and he was standing there
(42:19):
and celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, saying how he
deserved it. He hated Charlie Kirk and he had it
coming to him.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
That from our friends at Fox.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
That took a lot of guts to call out a surgeon.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
But there's war.
Speaker 9 (42:34):
So we came into an order earlier for the poster for.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Our vigil tonight. Yes, for somebody that it's not.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
That year, it's propaganda. I'm sorry, we don't print that here.
What was that about Sydney?
Speaker 3 (42:51):
So they were trying to hold a candlelight visual for
Charlie Kirk and they wanted posters printed at office depot
for that vigil, and these employees refused to print them,
calling them propaganda. So they were very pleasant in their conversation,
but Office Max Corporate had a huge problem with their behavior.
(43:15):
FedEx ended up printing the posters for free after seeing
this video, and those employees have been fired.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
That video is from m at md a pere noo
on X. But here's the rub to Franz.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Borghart's a veteran trial lawyer joining us out at baton
rouge Franz, here's the deal. We may disagree with their
behavior and what they're doing and what they're saying. We
may think it's bloodthirsty and disgusting, much like we feel
when somebody burns the flag or has opposed to it says
f America, or burns a beloved figure or political figure
(43:54):
in effigy. We don't like it, but it's the First Amendment.
So now refusing to do your job at Office Max
or wherever that was is a whole nother can of worms.
But these people dancing on Charlie Kirk's grave are disgusting.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Whether you agree with.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Kirk or not doesn't matter. The guy was murdered, his
children don't have a father. I don't think they can
be prosecuted, not at all, for saying whatever they want
to say.
Speaker 15 (44:24):
So here's where the rubber beats the road, Nancy. If
they're in a state where there's inciting violence laws, and
generally those can be felonies, those are not going to
withstand the First Amendment defense. Can't shout fire in a
crowded theater. You cannot try to incite violence at a memorial.
People who do stupid stuff at their jobs, they're going
(44:44):
to get fired. But depending on where these people are
acting and what they are saying, they may not be
able to escape some kind of arrest or criminal prosecution.
And look, justifiably, if you're trying to incite violence at
a memorial, I think you shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
A Hey, you're preaching to the choir.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
The investigation into the assassination of Charlie Kirk husband.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And father goes on.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
If you know or think you know anything about the
plot to murder Kirk, please call toll free eight hundred,
call FBI eight hundred, two two five, five, three two
four or eight zero one five seventy nine fourteen hundred.
(45:32):
You can go to tips dot FBI dot gov. And
now we remember an American hero. Deputy Sheriff Andres Lahara,
Citrus County Sheriff's Office, killed in the line of duty
after fourteen years of service. Leaves behind a grieving wife, Michelle,
(45:53):
and two sons without a father.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Vincent and Nicholas.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
American hero Deputy Sheriff On Dress Lira Nancy Grace signing
off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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