July 27, 2024 • 39 mins
A group of day laborers is hired by Sam Haskell IV to remove three bags of what they are told, are rocks from his garage
The men described the bags as "soft and soggy," with each weighing about 50 pounds. A block away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags and said they saw body parts. The men returned the bag to Haskell and returned his money. Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually saw were Halloween props. The men drove immediately to the police.
The men try to report what they have seen to police but they are turned away. The men went to the Highway Patrol station first but were told to go to the Los Angeles Police Department.
The LAPD Topanga Station tells the men to go back outside and call 911 from the courtyard. In the meantime, police receive another call about human remains, A homeless man, digging through the dumpster looking for recyclables, finds human remains.
Inside the dumpster, LAPD found a torso in a bag. The investigation provided detectives with enough information to lead them to Samuel Haskell IV's residence.
Sam Haskell's most recent court appearance has delayed the start of his trial.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Elle Benami - -Friend and neighbor of Mei & Samuel Haskell IG: @ellebenami
- Troy Slaten – Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers, APC; Twitter @TroySlaten
- Dr. Gary Brucato – Clinical Psychologist and Author: “The New Evil: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime”
- Chris McDonough – Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room”
- Dr. Michelle Dupre – Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department
- Dr. Trace Sargent- Search, Rescue & Recovery Expert, (Ph.D. in Psychology with a focus on victimology – criminal profiling – predator behaviors – crime scene analysis); Podcast: “The Seeker’s Quest;” Facebook: The Seeker’s Quest
- Alexis Tereszcuk – CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker for Lead Stories; Twitter: @swimmie2009
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All hgule Ll breaks loose when someone discovers a female
torso and a dumpster. It doesn't take California police very
long to track the torso to one person, the son
of a famous Hollywood agent.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
The son Sam Haskell.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Not only is his wife missing, but so are his
in laws. In the last days, accused killer Sam Haskell
appears in an LA courtroom and a judge delays setting
the date for a preliminary hearing on whether Haskell will
stand trial for murdering his wife and parents. What's the
(00:50):
hold up? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us. You know, isn't it odd
that whenever really rich defendants are involved, there's always delays
and sticky situations in court. Let me tell you if
someone that wasn't educated, privileged, wealthy was charged with the
(01:16):
murder and dismemberment of his wife and likely murders and
dismemberment of his in laws, they would be under the jail.
So what's the hold up with Sam Haskell? He keeps
showing up in court showing off his muscles without a
shirt on. You know, what do I need to see
that how did the whole thing start.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Police said they got a call from one of Sam
Haskell's neighbors who reported seeing suspicious bags outside the Tarzana
home and the bags appear to have body parts in them.
LAPD Detective E from Gutierrez the RIDA calling.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
The RIMA seventh at about five point thirty pm involved
the suspicious bag they possibly contain the human reoms. When
the officers responded, nothing was located.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Even though nothing was located, an investigation was launched.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
This is what we know.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
The original call to police, we first thought was from neighbors,
but now it appears to be from some construction workers
in the area.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
What a twisted story. Listen.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
The men try to report what they've seen to the police,
but it turned away twice. The men went to the
Highway of Patrol station first, but we're told they had
to go to the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD
Topanga station tells the men to go back outside and
call nine to one one from the courtyard.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Okay, I've got an all star panel to make sense
of what we know right now about three missing people
and a woman's torso that has been found in a
dumpster there in LA. But first to Alexis Terrestok joining
me from this jurisdiction Crime online dot com investigative.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Reporter Alexis, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So I mean, bottom line, Alexis police and not one
but two locations send these citizens trying to report what
they think is a bag of body parts on a
wild goose chase, a scavenger hunt, so to speak.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
They do.
Speaker 6 (03:21):
They went, they had these trash bags.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
They thought, oh my gosh.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
This is not something normal.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
This is probably body parts.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
We think this is what it is. They go to
a police station. The police say, well, where did you
get these bags from? Oh, you got it from this
house over there. You need to go to that jurisdiction.
Didn't look at the bags, nothing at all. Probably didn't
even believe them. So they send it to the next place.
They're like, yeah, you got to.
Speaker 7 (03:40):
Call nine one one.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, this is right out of a movie.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Let me go to Chris mcdona, joining me, director of
the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a
YouTube channel. The interview room where I found them. Chris mcdona, Uh,
have you ever seen Home Alone? Okay, I know you
know where I'm going. Where the mom calls. I believe
(04:05):
this must have been Home Alone two where she calls
from Paris and she gets sent to one person, and
then they knock on the wall, and they send the
phone to the next person, and back and forth and
back and forth. She never gets the right police officer,
and finally starts calling neighbors. I know that is a funny,
(04:29):
a comical example of what we're talking about, but really,
these people are trying to report a bag of human
body parts and they get sent on a wild goose chase.
I tell you what, if I were the police chief,
which of course I'm not, I would totally clean a
(04:50):
house over who chose not to take a report on
a bag of body parts?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Chris McDonough And I can bet you answer your hundred
percent right.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
This is out of a Hollywood horror movie. And that
police chief Moore, Michael Moore, who's a LAPD chief. Now
he's going to be questioning a lot of folks.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well, I hope he does more than question them.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I mean, you get a call about body parts, you
better go like grease lightning to investigate. And that delay
cost the case a lot of time and possibly a
lot of evidence.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Let's move forward. Listen.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
LAPD detective he from Gutiera says, early the next morning,
police received another call about human remains.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
The caller was a homeless man that was digging through
the dumpster to look for recyclables and discovered what he
will need to be a human remains.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
All that was recovered was the torso fine, there were
clues in the bag just.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
From a visual inspection. The stage of the decomposition were
relatively early, so no more than a day or two.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Okay, I'm glad that an untrained cop can look in
and tell me the level of decomposition.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
But actually he may be right. You know, let me
go to.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Choice Layton, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us out
of this jurisdiction LA. You know, if there were anywhere else,
I would just assume they were the same body parts,
But in LA they could be entirely.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
A different set of body parts.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
But logically speaking, Choice Layton, do you think they could
then add two plus two equals these are the same
set of body parts as we got reported yesterday.
Speaker 9 (06:34):
Well, the corner and medical examiner, which are the same
here in Los Angeles. They're going to start having to
piece these things back together. So the body parts that
were recovered by these construction workers and whatever was found
by this homeless person, it's not going to take very
long for them to decide if that's the same body part.
(06:56):
And the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD, which is the
most elite squad in the LAPD, is going to be
investigating and try and put two and two together.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Doctor Michelle Duprey is joining me Forensic Pathologists, medical examiner,
former detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch
Saga the rest of the story on Amazon, and she
literally wrote the book, The Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor
d Prix.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
We're all talking.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
About bags of body parts, but to this victim or
victim's family, the discussion of body parts that is their
loved one, that is their daughter, their sister, their mom,
the their dad, their grandpa, that we're talking about body parts,
(07:51):
body parts.
Speaker 7 (07:52):
You're absolutely right, Nancy, these are somebody's family. They are
you know, I'm obviously there upset about this and it's
a tragic thing to find.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
No, it's not just.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The shock ultimately learning that you have lost someone you love,
possibly that you love more than anything else in the world,
but then finding out that they are a crime victim,
a murder victim, and then to find out that they
have been dismembered, that their dead body has been defiled
(08:25):
in such a horrible, horrible way. To doctor Gary Pricato,
clinical psychologist, author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence
of Modern Violent Crime. Now that is a read, Doctor Pracato,
That's a lot for one person to take in. I mean,
(08:45):
I remember when my fiance was murdered. At first I
just assumed that there had been a car crash, and
then I found out he was murdered, and frankly, I
don't remember a whole lot after that. But to then
learn that someone dismembered the person you love more than
(09:06):
anything else in the world, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
How do you make a comeback after that?
Speaker 10 (09:10):
Extremely difficult because a person would have to make some
kind of meaning out of what it is that happened
in their life, some kind of existential or spiritual meaning,
and to try to go out in the world and
battle that kind of darkness so that other people don't
have to experience it. And people that I've worked with
who have been victims of violent crime it seems to
(09:31):
be the only way that they're able to make any
sense of purpose out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
What is happening?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
One set of remains found or spotted outside of home.
Police finally get there after sending the civilian informant on
a wild goose chase.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
When they get there, no more remains. It's gone.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
They don't execute a sortch warn't they do nothing? I
mean they don't have an enough evidence to execute a
search warrant in the home. The next day it's reported
that there is a female torso found in a dumpster.
Let's pick it up right there, take a listen to
our friends at crime Online.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
The LAPD says that when they processed the scene where
the torso in the bank were found in a dumpster,
the investigation provided detectives with information that led them to
the residence of Samuel Haskell.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Sam Haskell the Fourth who is that listen?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Sam Haskell the Fourth is the son of Sam Haskell
the Third, an Emmy Award winning producer who was a
high profile agent with Hollywood's William Morris Talent agency, where
he represented a list stars like George Clooney, would be Goldberg,
Dolly Parton and many others. Haskell the Fourth list himself
as a director and posted several clips online of low
budget videos he wrote in filmed. Former Real Housewives of
(10:55):
Beverly hillstar Brandy Glanville appears in one of the clips
for a movie which appears to be a high school
little teen drama.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Sam Haskell the fourth, the Hollywood superagent's son accused of
killing and dismembering his wife and murdering her parents, who
only moved in to help them raise the children while
their daughter supported lazy Sam Haskell the Fourth was in
court again, this time facing the LA judge who will
(11:37):
decide if he will stand trial for the horrific slayings.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Sam Haskell, thirty.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Six old enough to know better, has been on suicide
watch at LA's notorious Twin Towers jail since his arrest.
He was led into the LA Superior Court shackled and
bare chested, just as he was at.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Prior court appearance.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
This man put on a shirt and by the way,
if you don't know a horse, look at his track record.
This guy has never done anything for other people. It's
always about him. His in laws moved in with them
to take care of the children so his beautiful wife
could work like a dog to pay the house note
(12:21):
while he did what flint around town and work out
in a local gym. Oh, this guy cares too much
about himself to commit suicide. Of course, I am not
a doctor, a medical doctor, but everything this guy has
ever done screams me.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Me, Me, Me me.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Sporting a shorter haircut and his heavily tattooed upper torso
he looks like he's blowing kisses at the camera. He
kept looking around the courtroom as if searching for people
he might know.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
There were no family or.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Friends present, mostly because he killed them. But I did
notice his father, the superagent, and the rest of his
family didn't show up. And yes he's pictured in court
shirtless again. High school of course. Accused are murdering and dismembered.
He dismembering his wife, Maylee, with whom he shared three
(13:21):
beautiful children. Her dismember body was found in November. So
Sam Haskell the fourth is a son of a high
powered talent agent who was known as the quote.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Good guy of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
The dad High School three was the CEO, I believe
of the Miss America pageant for many many years. Has
I think still working with Dolly Parton in her Magnoia productions.
I mean the dad is renowned. In fact, I think
(14:02):
he was the world wide head of TV work for
William Morris.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Do I have that right?
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Haskell three the father, he it was, but he was
the head of the pageants.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
He was.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
He separated from the pageant organization about a year ago.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Over just be regarding some emails, but correct. That leads
me to the son Haskell four. Now, from what I understand,
this guy Haskell four has directed a few things, including
working with Tiger and Machine Gun Kelly, but he never
(14:44):
reached the level of his father's fame.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Is that right?
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Correct? Not in any way, shape or form. And he
mostly put things on social media where he would do videos,
you know, on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Wait a minute, I'm so glad you said that. Let's
take a listen to Sam Haskell four, the fourth on
social media. His TikTok. This is our cut fourteen, like.
Speaker 11 (15:08):
My resume says, unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently never
going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter at
the restaurant above, nor drums for just like completely burning
out of my filet, like what kind of a monster
are you? Homie?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
What what Sidney? Can I hear that again?
Speaker 11 (15:31):
Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently
never going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter
at the restaurant above nor drums for just like completely
burning out of my file at, like, what kind of
a monster are you? Homie?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Okay, this guy, Sam Haskell the fourth is living in a.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Nearly three million dollars home.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
In Tarzana, which is a really beautiful area around LA.
He's got an enclosed backyard I've seen it myself, with
a gorgeous pool, a play area for his children, the works.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's a six bedroom home.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And he is whining that he's unhappy, bitter and resentful.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
He's never going to stop drinking.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Thanks for sharing and complaining that the waiter at the
restaurant on top of North Troms, I.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Guess it's at the Tabanga Mall. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
North Troms, which is a really expensive department store, burned
his filet Mignon and I, okay, Alexis, tell me about
this area because I've seen it and it's really beautiful.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
It is Tarzana is part of Los Angeles County. It's
a little bit away from downtown in the valley. But
so it's beautiful, lush, green homes, you know, very spaced out,
not right on.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Top of each other at all.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
You know, tree lined streets, really good schools around there,
nice areas for your kids to play. Nice you know,
restaurants and malls where you could take your kids, parks,
you know, the dumpster. Everything is right near a park.
Just a lovely area that for somebody who doesn't seem
to work, you would think probably maybe his parents bought
(17:29):
this very expensive home for him and they just moved
there in December of twenty twenty, so in the middle
of the pandemic they moved.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
And joining me right now is a special guest. It
is l Been and me. Thank you for being with us.
We're all trying to figure out what exactly is happening.
You are a friend and neighbor of May and Sam
Haskell the fourth.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
What can you tell us about them?
Speaker 5 (17:57):
So they moved to the neighborhood, like you said, in
December twenty twenty January twenty twenty one, during the pandemic
and from the beginning, I did think that they were.
It struck me that they were very different Sam and May.
He was She's extremely outgoing. Right when she moved in here,
(18:19):
she came around and she introduced herself, and she wanted
to make plans with us and the kids. And he
was not like that. He would, you know, say hello
if I saw him on the street, maybe kind of
like nod his head. He would smile. So he was
(18:40):
outwardly friendly. But in the I guess three years that
he lived next to us, I never actually had a
conversation with him, But with Mate it was very different.
I had many, many long conversations with her, took many
long walks, and I can't say the same for him.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Question, you spent time with May, and I know that
May lived in the home with her parents, ages seventy
two and sixty four.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
What was she like?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I was just a very very sweet person, a very generous,
very sweet, very caring, would kind of get excited about
small things, kind of biting like a I guess, a
childlike way, which was very endearing. She loved to be
(19:33):
around people. She threw many parties. She was very dedicated,
dedicated to her three boys, and always threw them really
amazing birthday parties, really went all out. She you know,
threw parties for Chinese New Year, and she always loved
(19:54):
to make plans, make sure, you know, her boys have
a lot of things plan out, and also took them
to many extracurricular activities after school, from music to sport
to you know, advanced math and so on.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Okay, that is a mom that cares.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I mean, I've been there and I know the ages
of her children are three boys. You're constantly in the
road taking one to music, or this one to gymnastics,
or this one to soccer or whatever it is that
they latch onto that they like. What was her relationship
with Haskell?
Speaker 5 (20:36):
For so, I will say that she never really discussed
a relationship with him with me, but just from observing them,
I would say that they weren't close. They didn't have
anywhere near a close, you know, a close relationship. It
would definitely not call it that. Never seen them be
affectionate with each other. They never went on date nights.
(20:59):
She never mentioned and them going on a date. I
never have been going out anywhere together. They didn't go
on vacations together. So she would go on vacation with
her children and her parents, and he typically went on
solo trips I think, typically to Japan. According to May,
some of them were work related for filming. They both,
(21:23):
for example, like to take walks in the neighborhood. I
never saw them take a walk together.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know, That's that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Ill And guys, you're hearing a friend and neighbor of
May and Sam Haskell the fourth Troy Slayton. I'm just
trying to imagine.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
This, Nancy. That's something very important. I love take walks
with my spouse here in beautiful Los Angeles. But he
lived with his in laws too. And I'm not making
any kind of excuse, but people sometimes in that situation
(22:02):
feel trapped. They feel that there are no boundaries and
starting to think about what some of the defenses might
be psychologically for him, and they.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Live with his in laws. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I've got my ninety two year old mother with us, Okay,
and you know who's the very sweetest to her, My husband.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
He feels trapped, he hasn't said, so.
Speaker 9 (22:24):
That's nice, But a lot of people suffer tremendous psychological
stress from living with their in laws.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Okay, well, I can't wait to see how that goes over.
Was that you l about to say something?
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yeah, I was going to say that May's parents they
were I mean, of course, I don't know what went
on inside their home, but from what I could see,
they seem to be extremely helpful. Anytime I observed them
with the children, they always both of them were actively
you know, chasing up to them helping. Her mom cooked
(23:04):
a lot, I think, pretty much daily for them and
for the kids when May for birthday parties. It was
not that helped in any way. Was her parents, even
though they didn't speak English, they were constantly actively helping.
And you know, and her mom had suffered a stroke
(23:26):
prior to COVID and so she did use or she
does use a kid to walk. That didn't stop her
from being always on her feet and helping.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
You know, just thinking about the dynamic you're telling us.
But I want to circle back very quickly to something
Alexis Terschak was reporting earlier.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I want to go.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Back to these day laborers.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
They construction workers. Take us to hour Cut too from.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Dave Mac twenty five miles west of downtown Los Angeles,
in an area once owned by famed author Edgar Rice
Burrows and named for his famous character Tarzan. Tarzana is
in the San Fernando Valley and has become a popular
place for celebrities and those in the entertainment world to
call home. It's also where Sam Haskell paid a group
of day laborers five hundred dollars to haul away three
(24:16):
large trash bags that were in his garage. Speaking to
NBC for Los Angeles, the workers said Haskell told them
the bags were full of rocks, but the workers said
when they picked up the bags they felt like there
was meat inside. Realizing what they were carrying wasn't rocks,
the workers pulled over about a block from Haskell's house
to look inside the bag. Opening the bags, the men
(24:38):
knew they'd been.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Tricked and more listen.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
The men described the bags to NBC four as soft
and soggy and each weighing about fifty pounds. A block
away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags
and said they started seeing body parts, specifically a belly button.
The men said they felt bad they'd been tricked, so
they drove back to Haskell's house and left the bags
in the and gave Haskell as five hundred dollars back.
(25:03):
Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually
saw were Halloween props. Not believing Haskell, the men drove
immediately to the police.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Okay, alexais terreschat Crime online dot com investigative reporter joining
us from LA what.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
So he hired it some men day laborer that you
go to maybe home depot or somewhere like that, and
you say, hey, guys, I've got some heavy things in
my house. These men are usually big, strong men, and
they have trucks they come to your house. So that's
what they did. They took the bags and he said, oh,
they're rocks. Well, rocks are really heavy and they don't move.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
You can't squish them.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
But these bags were heavy and squishy, and the guys
their description was it felt like meat. So they were,
you know, like a huge hunk of meat.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Squishy but still a little solid.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
They looked in the bags, they saw what it was,
and what they specifically described was they saw a belly
button like the torso from you know, above your waist,
below your chest, you're below your necks.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
And that was horrific.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
So they took the bags back. The guy gave them
their money. They gave them money back, and then they
went to the police. They go to the first police
station they could find. The police said, well, that's not
actually our jurisdiction. One either to his other police station
or call nine to one.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
One.
Speaker 6 (26:18):
These guys come in with sure, it's a little bit
of a wild story, but you should investigate this. This
is really they're not telling you anything that is out
of the Norman Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Everything you're saying, I believe it's correct. But what's jumping
out at me is changing his story. First, the bag
is full of rocks. Yeah, Then he says, oh, those
are just Halloween props, even though it looks like human body.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Parts, that's so human body and yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Then the next thing we know, a bag of human
body parts turns up in a dumpster. But let me
take it back. Joining me is a neighbor of May
and Sam Haskell. Fourth May, the mother of three little boys.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
By Haskell.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Well, question, what if anything did you hear the previous night?
Speaker 5 (27:10):
So I was not home the previous night, but yes,
my daughter she actually texted it to us that night.
She heard what she thought was the youngest boy from
their house, or perhaps from the yard shout hello, hello, help,
and then she heard a car door slam and loud screeching.
(27:33):
I guess of the car drove off?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Okay, hold on, did you saw that down? And tell
me one more time?
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Okay, So my daughter texted us at around nine pm
on Tuesday, the night before the torso was found, that
she heard what she believed to be the high school's
youngest boy come in too basically maybe from the house
or from the yard, to call out hello, hello and
(28:03):
then help. And then she heard a car door slim
really hard and screeching sound allowed screeching, a drove off.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And joining me?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Now is doctor Trace sergeant Search Rescue, Recovery Expert, PhD
in psychology, I focused on victimology, star of a podcast,
The Seekers Quest, Doctor sergeant, thank you for being with us.
You look specifically at predatory behavior. What do you make
(28:37):
of someone that not only commits a murder but then
dismembers the body?
Speaker 12 (28:43):
Well, Nancy, we look at several things, but I'd like
to go back to Sam Hassel's the fourth comments on
social media that in itself tells us a lot when
we're looking at it from a criminal profile perspective. Behavioral
analysis psychological analysis, and what is glaring to me is
(29:04):
that he perceives himself as the victim. And I would
not be surprised when this case and this story moves
forward that he presents himself as the victim and maybe
even go as far as blaming the circumstances that led
(29:24):
to the death of his wife and probably his in
laws that it was somehow their fault, not his fault.
He will not take accountability or responsibility for his action.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Do you agree with that, doctor Bracato.
Speaker 10 (29:37):
Well, I have a few things to say about this case,
and I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely
suited to look at it because it touches on two
areas that have been major ones for me in my research.
First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished.
(29:58):
I worked with doctor and Burgess, doctor Victor Petrica, Michael Stone,
doctor Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to
distinguish those offenses. It's important for people to understand the dismemberment,
according to our work, really means the destruction or removal
of a large part of the body the torso, the arms, hand, helvis,
(30:22):
legs or feet, and any destruction or elimination of a
smaller part thereof of any you know, it would be mutilation.
And the reason it's important is there are differences in
the psychology and motives of people according to which of
those things they're doing. What it sounds like here. We
don't know how how much butchery there was, but this
(30:43):
sounds like dismemberment offense. And with dismemberment, we found in
our research that the vast majority offenders are doing that
to get rid of body parts because of concern about capture.
The outside, you know, looking in makes it seem like
it's some kind of bizarre, psychotic, crazy thing to do,
but the reality is it's a pretty organized thing to
(31:05):
do that's done by a person that's trying to clean
up after they've eliminated people. Now, the other thing that
I can kind of put some in a unique position
here is I know that, you know, there's been a
charge that this man has killed not only this woman
but her parents, which would place him in the category
of mass murder. When I was at Columbia Medical Center,
(31:28):
I led the largest study ever done of mass murder.
And what I can tell you is is that in
order to know the motives of a person who commits
mass murder. We have to know what was used to kill.
If a gun is used, there's a very low likelihood
that the person was seriously disturbed or mentally ill. If
something else was used, like a knife, then we start
(31:50):
thinking that this was an individual who was unwell in
some way. The statistics, it becomes much more probable that
the person was disturbed.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
If they use an Is that what you said?
Speaker 10 (32:01):
Yes, the use of a knife would be more of
a giveaway that you're dealing with somebody that would be
authentically odd inter personally, a little more kind.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Of unwell, right, Are you saying insane? Not insane, just odd? Odd?
Speaker 10 (32:16):
For example, the individual might be paranoid or a little
bit aggressive.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Are you talking about someone that kills and as members
with a knife.
Speaker 10 (32:23):
Talking about someone who commits a mass murder using a knife.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well, what doesn't it go without saying that they're odd?
Speaker 6 (32:29):
Well odd?
Speaker 10 (32:30):
And when I say odd, I don't mean odd because
you've committed murder or anything like that. I mean odd
that even at baseline, the person would say peculiar things
would be a little bit kind of odd to the
average individual, hot headed, a little paranoid, a little peculiar,
and that matches what we're hearing and that weird recording
from TikTok and some of these stories about the detachment
(32:54):
and the coldness between the members of the family. Now,
what's interesting about this is when we see these kinds
of cases where you know, there's been this explosive potential
killing of a family and then there's dismemberment, there's usually
one of two reasons it happens. One is elimination murder,
as I term it, which is where the idea is
(33:16):
to simply get rid of them because they are an
impediment to something like, for example, I want to have
a new romance or I am trying to get my
hands on some money. The other that you see is
some kind of domestic matter that causes an emotional disruption
and somebody in an absolute rage kills someone and then
has to kill everyone who has witnessed it in the family.
(33:39):
So that what I would suppose, if it turns out
that this is indeed a mass murder followed by dismemberment,
was that there was some kind of hot headed, angry,
odd person who became enraged or had a motive to
get rid of these people did so and then attempted
in a clumsy, weird way to And the reason it's
(34:02):
so odd and the stories are ridiculous is often that
the person is odd and lacks that kind of interpersonal
empathy to kind of pick up that people would think
these stories were weird.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Let's go back to the Haskell's neighbor, Elle Benemy Elle question.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I know you spent a good bit of time with May.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Do you have any knowledge of Haskell having a fixation
for on martial arts and kept samurai swords and crossbows
in them?
Speaker 5 (34:34):
Yeah, so I did. I did notice that about him.
I know that she mentioned that he would direct or
produce martial arts related movies or videos, or that he
would go in martial arts troops to Japan, I believe,
and I don't know why I remember this, but I
(34:55):
seem to recall that he may have a black belt
or a couple of blood belts for martial arts, and
and then I did know about their having various weapons
in the house, such as the stores and samurai swords
I believe across bow firearms. So that that's definitely something
(35:16):
that stayed very top of mind for me as a
mom of four living next door.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Did her mays, children tell your children about all the
weapons to the point you did not want your children
alone at their home upstairs?
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yes, so they did mention that to my kids several
points about like let's say a samurai sword, or pointing
up to where supposedly a specific firearm was kept. So
that made me very nervous about their them going upstairs
to one of the bedrooms. I did, of course, I
(35:57):
trust me and I I did really like her three boys,
so I was happy for them to play with my kids.
I just didn't wonder to be any accident.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back, guys.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
We're talking about Sam Haskell, the fourth living in a
multi million dollar home out in La his wife working.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Like a dog to support him and their three children.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
He didn't even have to take care of the children
because her parents moved in to take care of the
children so she could work.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Now, in this last.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Court appearance that happened in the last days, once again
he didn't have on a shirt. And the hearing before that,
in front of a different judge that was back in January,
he again appeared half naked. Is warn velcrow outfit to
his prison blues, Rolls kept flipping down, prompting his lawyer
(37:03):
to object to his client being photographed in court, saying
his bare chest was dehumanizing. I personally think he was
flexing his chest, but that's just me. In response to that,
the judge presiding over the hearing order photographers to only
shoot Haskell from.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
The neck up.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
But at this last hearing the attorney did not object.
Why because Judge Lisa Lynch, the new judge, allowed no
photographs in court at all. Now, this day in court
was supposed to be the day set for a preliminary
hearing to be scheduled, where ELA's district attorney will present
evidence and testimony and Judge Lynch will rule whether the
(37:46):
case against Haskell.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Is strong enough for him to go to a jury trial.
It's very simple.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Preliminary hearings can be interchanged with grand jury indictments charging mechanism.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
What's the hold up? I mean, look at the evidents
that we know about so far.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It now appears Haskell won't have a full preliminary hearing
for another ninety days, meaning in twenty twenty five, Haskell
could face the death penalty if he's convicted. May's friends
have stated she wanted to divorce Haskell for at least
(38:32):
four years, but she was so afraid his powerful agent
father would convince courts to give him or their son,
Sam Haskell the fourth custody of her three sons, Samuel eleven,
James eight, and little William just six. Delay, delay, delay,
(38:58):
A defense attorney's best friend, we wait as justice unfolds
for May and her parents.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
All hgule Ll breaks loose when someone discovers a female
torso and a dumpster. It doesn't take California police very
long to track the torso to one person, the son
of a famous Hollywood agent.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
The son Sam Haskell.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Not only is his wife missing, but so are his
in laws. In the last days, accused killer Sam Haskell
appears in an LA courtroom and a judge delays setting
the date for a preliminary hearing on whether Haskell will
stand trial for murdering his wife and parents. What's the
(00:50):
hold up? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us. You know, isn't it odd
that whenever really rich defendants are involved, there's always delays
and sticky situations in court. Let me tell you if
someone that wasn't educated, privileged, wealthy was charged with the
(01:16):
murder and dismemberment of his wife and likely murders and
dismemberment of his in laws, they would be under the jail.
So what's the hold up with Sam Haskell? He keeps
showing up in court showing off his muscles without a
shirt on. You know, what do I need to see
that how did the whole thing start.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Police said they got a call from one of Sam
Haskell's neighbors who reported seeing suspicious bags outside the Tarzana
home and the bags appear to have body parts in them.
LAPD Detective E from Gutierrez the RIDA calling.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
The RIMA seventh at about five point thirty pm involved
the suspicious bag they possibly contain the human reoms. When
the officers responded, nothing was located.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Even though nothing was located, an investigation was launched.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
This is what we know.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
The original call to police, we first thought was from neighbors,
but now it appears to be from some construction workers
in the area.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
What a twisted story. Listen.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
The men try to report what they've seen to the police,
but it turned away twice. The men went to the
Highway of Patrol station first, but we're told they had
to go to the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD
Topanga station tells the men to go back outside and
call nine to one one from the courtyard.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Okay, I've got an all star panel to make sense
of what we know right now about three missing people
and a woman's torso that has been found in a
dumpster there in LA. But first to Alexis Terrestok joining
me from this jurisdiction Crime online dot com investigative.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Reporter Alexis, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So I mean, bottom line, Alexis police and not one
but two locations send these citizens trying to report what
they think is a bag of body parts on a
wild goose chase, a scavenger hunt, so to speak.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
They do.
Speaker 6 (03:21):
They went, they had these trash bags.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
They thought, oh my gosh.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
This is not something normal.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
This is probably body parts.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
We think this is what it is. They go to
a police station. The police say, well, where did you
get these bags from? Oh, you got it from this
house over there. You need to go to that jurisdiction.
Didn't look at the bags, nothing at all. Probably didn't
even believe them. So they send it to the next place.
They're like, yeah, you got to.
Speaker 7 (03:40):
Call nine one one.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You know, this is right out of a movie.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Let me go to Chris mcdona, joining me, director of
the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a
YouTube channel. The interview room where I found them. Chris mcdona, Uh,
have you ever seen Home Alone? Okay, I know you
know where I'm going. Where the mom calls. I believe
(04:05):
this must have been Home Alone two where she calls
from Paris and she gets sent to one person, and
then they knock on the wall, and they send the
phone to the next person, and back and forth and
back and forth. She never gets the right police officer,
and finally starts calling neighbors. I know that is a funny,
(04:29):
a comical example of what we're talking about, but really,
these people are trying to report a bag of human
body parts and they get sent on a wild goose chase.
I tell you what, if I were the police chief,
which of course I'm not, I would totally clean a
(04:50):
house over who chose not to take a report on
a bag of body parts?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Chris McDonough And I can bet you answer your hundred
percent right.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
This is out of a Hollywood horror movie. And that
police chief Moore, Michael Moore, who's a LAPD chief. Now
he's going to be questioning a lot of folks.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Well, I hope he does more than question them.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I mean, you get a call about body parts, you
better go like grease lightning to investigate. And that delay
cost the case a lot of time and possibly a
lot of evidence.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Let's move forward. Listen.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
LAPD detective he from Gutiera says, early the next morning,
police received another call about human remains.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
The caller was a homeless man that was digging through
the dumpster to look for recyclables and discovered what he
will need to be a human remains.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
All that was recovered was the torso fine, there were
clues in the bag just.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
From a visual inspection. The stage of the decomposition were
relatively early, so no more than a day or two.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Okay, I'm glad that an untrained cop can look in
and tell me the level of decomposition.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
But actually he may be right. You know, let me
go to.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Choice Layton, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us out
of this jurisdiction LA. You know, if there were anywhere else,
I would just assume they were the same body parts,
But in LA they could be entirely.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
A different set of body parts.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
But logically speaking, Choice Layton, do you think they could
then add two plus two equals these are the same
set of body parts as we got reported yesterday.
Speaker 9 (06:34):
Well, the corner and medical examiner, which are the same
here in Los Angeles. They're going to start having to
piece these things back together. So the body parts that
were recovered by these construction workers and whatever was found
by this homeless person, it's not going to take very
long for them to decide if that's the same body part.
(06:56):
And the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD, which is the
most elite squad in the LAPD, is going to be
investigating and try and put two and two together.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Doctor Michelle Duprey is joining me Forensic Pathologists, medical examiner,
former detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch
Saga the rest of the story on Amazon, and she
literally wrote the book, The Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor
d Prix.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
We're all talking.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
About bags of body parts, but to this victim or
victim's family, the discussion of body parts that is their
loved one, that is their daughter, their sister, their mom,
the their dad, their grandpa, that we're talking about body parts,
(07:51):
body parts.
Speaker 7 (07:52):
You're absolutely right, Nancy, these are somebody's family. They are
you know, I'm obviously there upset about this and it's
a tragic thing to find.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
No, it's not just.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
The shock ultimately learning that you have lost someone you love,
possibly that you love more than anything else in the world,
but then finding out that they are a crime victim,
a murder victim, and then to find out that they
have been dismembered, that their dead body has been defiled
(08:25):
in such a horrible, horrible way. To doctor Gary Pricato,
clinical psychologist, author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence
of Modern Violent Crime. Now that is a read, Doctor Pracato,
That's a lot for one person to take in. I mean,
(08:45):
I remember when my fiance was murdered. At first I
just assumed that there had been a car crash, and
then I found out he was murdered, and frankly, I
don't remember a whole lot after that. But to then
learn that someone dismembered the person you love more than
(09:06):
anything else in the world, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
How do you make a comeback after that?
Speaker 10 (09:10):
Extremely difficult because a person would have to make some
kind of meaning out of what it is that happened
in their life, some kind of existential or spiritual meaning,
and to try to go out in the world and
battle that kind of darkness so that other people don't
have to experience it. And people that I've worked with
who have been victims of violent crime it seems to
(09:31):
be the only way that they're able to make any
sense of purpose out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
What is happening?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
One set of remains found or spotted outside of home.
Police finally get there after sending the civilian informant on
a wild goose chase.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
When they get there, no more remains. It's gone.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
They don't execute a sortch warn't they do nothing? I
mean they don't have an enough evidence to execute a
search warrant in the home. The next day it's reported
that there is a female torso found in a dumpster.
Let's pick it up right there, take a listen to
our friends at crime Online.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
The LAPD says that when they processed the scene where
the torso in the bank were found in a dumpster,
the investigation provided detectives with information that led them to
the residence of Samuel Haskell.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Sam Haskell the Fourth who is that listen?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Sam Haskell the Fourth is the son of Sam Haskell
the Third, an Emmy Award winning producer who was a
high profile agent with Hollywood's William Morris Talent agency, where
he represented a list stars like George Clooney, would be Goldberg,
Dolly Parton and many others. Haskell the Fourth list himself
as a director and posted several clips online of low
budget videos he wrote in filmed. Former Real Housewives of
(10:55):
Beverly hillstar Brandy Glanville appears in one of the clips
for a movie which appears to be a high school
little teen drama.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Sam Haskell the fourth, the Hollywood superagent's son accused of
killing and dismembering his wife and murdering her parents, who
only moved in to help them raise the children while
their daughter supported lazy Sam Haskell the Fourth was in
court again, this time facing the LA judge who will
(11:37):
decide if he will stand trial for the horrific slayings.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Sam Haskell, thirty.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Six old enough to know better, has been on suicide
watch at LA's notorious Twin Towers jail since his arrest.
He was led into the LA Superior Court shackled and
bare chested, just as he was at.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Prior court appearance.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
This man put on a shirt and by the way,
if you don't know a horse, look at his track record.
This guy has never done anything for other people. It's
always about him. His in laws moved in with them
to take care of the children so his beautiful wife
could work like a dog to pay the house note
(12:21):
while he did what flint around town and work out
in a local gym. Oh, this guy cares too much
about himself to commit suicide. Of course, I am not
a doctor, a medical doctor, but everything this guy has
ever done screams me.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Me, Me, Me me.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Sporting a shorter haircut and his heavily tattooed upper torso
he looks like he's blowing kisses at the camera. He
kept looking around the courtroom as if searching for people
he might know.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
There were no family or.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Friends present, mostly because he killed them. But I did
notice his father, the superagent, and the rest of his
family didn't show up. And yes he's pictured in court
shirtless again. High school of course. Accused are murdering and dismembered.
He dismembering his wife, Maylee, with whom he shared three
(13:21):
beautiful children. Her dismember body was found in November. So
Sam Haskell the fourth is a son of a high
powered talent agent who was known as the quote.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Good guy of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
The dad High School three was the CEO, I believe
of the Miss America pageant for many many years. Has
I think still working with Dolly Parton in her Magnoia productions.
I mean the dad is renowned. In fact, I think
(14:02):
he was the world wide head of TV work for
William Morris.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Do I have that right?
Speaker 6 (14:14):
Haskell three the father, he it was, but he was
the head of the pageants.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
He was.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
He separated from the pageant organization about a year ago.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Over just be regarding some emails, but correct. That leads
me to the son Haskell four. Now, from what I understand,
this guy Haskell four has directed a few things, including
working with Tiger and Machine Gun Kelly, but he never
(14:44):
reached the level of his father's fame.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Is that right?
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Correct? Not in any way, shape or form. And he
mostly put things on social media where he would do videos,
you know, on TikTok.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Wait a minute, I'm so glad you said that. Let's
take a listen to Sam Haskell four, the fourth on
social media. His TikTok. This is our cut fourteen, like.
Speaker 11 (15:08):
My resume says, unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently never
going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter at
the restaurant above, nor drums for just like completely burning
out of my filet, like what kind of a monster
are you? Homie?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
What what Sidney? Can I hear that again?
Speaker 11 (15:31):
Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently
never going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter
at the restaurant above nor drums for just like completely
burning out of my file at, like, what kind of
a monster are you? Homie?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Okay, this guy, Sam Haskell the fourth is living in a.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Nearly three million dollars home.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
In Tarzana, which is a really beautiful area around LA.
He's got an enclosed backyard I've seen it myself, with
a gorgeous pool, a play area for his children, the works.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's a six bedroom home.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And he is whining that he's unhappy, bitter and resentful.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
He's never going to stop drinking.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Thanks for sharing and complaining that the waiter at the
restaurant on top of North Troms, I.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Guess it's at the Tabanga Mall. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
North Troms, which is a really expensive department store, burned
his filet Mignon and I, okay, Alexis, tell me about
this area because I've seen it and it's really beautiful.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
It is Tarzana is part of Los Angeles County. It's
a little bit away from downtown in the valley. But
so it's beautiful, lush, green homes, you know, very spaced out,
not right on.
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Top of each other at all.
Speaker 6 (17:08):
You know, tree lined streets, really good schools around there,
nice areas for your kids to play. Nice you know,
restaurants and malls where you could take your kids, parks,
you know, the dumpster. Everything is right near a park.
Just a lovely area that for somebody who doesn't seem
to work, you would think probably maybe his parents bought
(17:29):
this very expensive home for him and they just moved
there in December of twenty twenty, so in the middle
of the pandemic they moved.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
And joining me right now is a special guest. It
is l Been and me. Thank you for being with us.
We're all trying to figure out what exactly is happening.
You are a friend and neighbor of May and Sam
Haskell the fourth.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
What can you tell us about them?
Speaker 5 (17:57):
So they moved to the neighborhood, like you said, in
December twenty twenty January twenty twenty one, during the pandemic
and from the beginning, I did think that they were.
It struck me that they were very different Sam and May.
He was She's extremely outgoing. Right when she moved in here,
(18:19):
she came around and she introduced herself, and she wanted
to make plans with us and the kids. And he
was not like that. He would, you know, say hello
if I saw him on the street, maybe kind of
like nod his head. He would smile. So he was
(18:40):
outwardly friendly. But in the I guess three years that
he lived next to us, I never actually had a
conversation with him, But with Mate it was very different.
I had many, many long conversations with her, took many
long walks, and I can't say the same for him.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Question, you spent time with May, and I know that
May lived in the home with her parents, ages seventy
two and sixty four.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
What was she like?
Speaker 5 (19:12):
I was just a very very sweet person, a very generous,
very sweet, very caring, would kind of get excited about
small things, kind of biting like a I guess, a
childlike way, which was very endearing. She loved to be
(19:33):
around people. She threw many parties. She was very dedicated,
dedicated to her three boys, and always threw them really
amazing birthday parties, really went all out. She you know,
threw parties for Chinese New Year, and she always loved
(19:54):
to make plans, make sure, you know, her boys have
a lot of things plan out, and also took them
to many extracurricular activities after school, from music to sport
to you know, advanced math and so on.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Okay, that is a mom that cares.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I mean, I've been there and I know the ages
of her children are three boys. You're constantly in the
road taking one to music, or this one to gymnastics,
or this one to soccer or whatever it is that
they latch onto that they like. What was her relationship
with Haskell?
Speaker 5 (20:36):
For so, I will say that she never really discussed
a relationship with him with me, but just from observing them,
I would say that they weren't close. They didn't have
anywhere near a close, you know, a close relationship. It
would definitely not call it that. Never seen them be
affectionate with each other. They never went on date nights.
(20:59):
She never mentioned and them going on a date. I
never have been going out anywhere together. They didn't go
on vacations together. So she would go on vacation with
her children and her parents, and he typically went on
solo trips I think, typically to Japan. According to May,
some of them were work related for filming. They both,
(21:23):
for example, like to take walks in the neighborhood. I
never saw them take a walk together.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
You know, That's that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Ill And guys, you're hearing a friend and neighbor of
May and Sam Haskell the fourth Troy Slayton. I'm just
trying to imagine.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
This, Nancy. That's something very important. I love take walks
with my spouse here in beautiful Los Angeles. But he
lived with his in laws too. And I'm not making
any kind of excuse, but people sometimes in that situation
(22:02):
feel trapped. They feel that there are no boundaries and
starting to think about what some of the defenses might
be psychologically for him, and they.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Live with his in laws. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
I've got my ninety two year old mother with us, Okay,
and you know who's the very sweetest to her, My husband.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
He feels trapped, he hasn't said, so.
Speaker 9 (22:24):
That's nice, But a lot of people suffer tremendous psychological
stress from living with their in laws.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Okay, well, I can't wait to see how that goes over.
Was that you l about to say something?
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yeah, I was going to say that May's parents they
were I mean, of course, I don't know what went
on inside their home, but from what I could see,
they seem to be extremely helpful. Anytime I observed them
with the children, they always both of them were actively
you know, chasing up to them helping. Her mom cooked
(23:04):
a lot, I think, pretty much daily for them and
for the kids when May for birthday parties. It was
not that helped in any way. Was her parents, even
though they didn't speak English, they were constantly actively helping.
And you know, and her mom had suffered a stroke
(23:26):
prior to COVID and so she did use or she
does use a kid to walk. That didn't stop her
from being always on her feet and helping.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
You know, just thinking about the dynamic you're telling us.
But I want to circle back very quickly to something
Alexis Terschak was reporting earlier.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I want to go.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Back to these day laborers.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
They construction workers. Take us to hour Cut too from.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Dave Mac twenty five miles west of downtown Los Angeles,
in an area once owned by famed author Edgar Rice
Burrows and named for his famous character Tarzan. Tarzana is
in the San Fernando Valley and has become a popular
place for celebrities and those in the entertainment world to
call home. It's also where Sam Haskell paid a group
of day laborers five hundred dollars to haul away three
(24:16):
large trash bags that were in his garage. Speaking to
NBC for Los Angeles, the workers said Haskell told them
the bags were full of rocks, but the workers said
when they picked up the bags they felt like there
was meat inside. Realizing what they were carrying wasn't rocks,
the workers pulled over about a block from Haskell's house
to look inside the bag. Opening the bags, the men
(24:38):
knew they'd been.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Tricked and more listen.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
The men described the bags to NBC four as soft
and soggy and each weighing about fifty pounds. A block
away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags
and said they started seeing body parts, specifically a belly button.
The men said they felt bad they'd been tricked, so
they drove back to Haskell's house and left the bags
in the and gave Haskell as five hundred dollars back.
(25:03):
Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually
saw were Halloween props. Not believing Haskell, the men drove
immediately to the police.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Okay, alexais terreschat Crime online dot com investigative reporter joining
us from LA what.
Speaker 6 (25:17):
So he hired it some men day laborer that you
go to maybe home depot or somewhere like that, and
you say, hey, guys, I've got some heavy things in
my house. These men are usually big, strong men, and
they have trucks they come to your house. So that's
what they did. They took the bags and he said, oh,
they're rocks. Well, rocks are really heavy and they don't move.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
You can't squish them.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
But these bags were heavy and squishy, and the guys
their description was it felt like meat. So they were,
you know, like a huge hunk of meat.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Squishy but still a little solid.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
They looked in the bags, they saw what it was,
and what they specifically described was they saw a belly
button like the torso from you know, above your waist,
below your chest, you're below your necks.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
And that was horrific.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
So they took the bags back. The guy gave them
their money. They gave them money back, and then they
went to the police. They go to the first police
station they could find. The police said, well, that's not
actually our jurisdiction. One either to his other police station
or call nine to one.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
One.
Speaker 6 (26:18):
These guys come in with sure, it's a little bit
of a wild story, but you should investigate this. This
is really they're not telling you anything that is out
of the Norman Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Everything you're saying, I believe it's correct. But what's jumping
out at me is changing his story. First, the bag
is full of rocks. Yeah, Then he says, oh, those
are just Halloween props, even though it looks like human body.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Parts, that's so human body and yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Then the next thing we know, a bag of human
body parts turns up in a dumpster. But let me
take it back. Joining me is a neighbor of May
and Sam Haskell. Fourth May, the mother of three little boys.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
By Haskell.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Well, question, what if anything did you hear the previous night?
Speaker 5 (27:10):
So I was not home the previous night, but yes,
my daughter she actually texted it to us that night.
She heard what she thought was the youngest boy from
their house, or perhaps from the yard shout hello, hello, help,
and then she heard a car door slam and loud screeching.
(27:33):
I guess of the car drove off?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Okay, hold on, did you saw that down? And tell
me one more time?
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Okay, So my daughter texted us at around nine pm
on Tuesday, the night before the torso was found, that
she heard what she believed to be the high school's
youngest boy come in too basically maybe from the house
or from the yard, to call out hello, hello and
(28:03):
then help. And then she heard a car door slim
really hard and screeching sound allowed screeching, a drove off.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And joining me?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Now is doctor Trace sergeant Search Rescue, Recovery Expert, PhD
in psychology, I focused on victimology, star of a podcast,
The Seekers Quest, Doctor sergeant, thank you for being with us.
You look specifically at predatory behavior. What do you make
(28:37):
of someone that not only commits a murder but then
dismembers the body?
Speaker 12 (28:43):
Well, Nancy, we look at several things, but I'd like
to go back to Sam Hassel's the fourth comments on
social media that in itself tells us a lot when
we're looking at it from a criminal profile perspective. Behavioral
analysis psychological analysis, and what is glaring to me is
(29:04):
that he perceives himself as the victim. And I would
not be surprised when this case and this story moves
forward that he presents himself as the victim and maybe
even go as far as blaming the circumstances that led
(29:24):
to the death of his wife and probably his in
laws that it was somehow their fault, not his fault.
He will not take accountability or responsibility for his action.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Do you agree with that, doctor Bracato.
Speaker 10 (29:37):
Well, I have a few things to say about this case,
and I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely
suited to look at it because it touches on two
areas that have been major ones for me in my research.
First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished.
(29:58):
I worked with doctor and Burgess, doctor Victor Petrica, Michael Stone,
doctor Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to
distinguish those offenses. It's important for people to understand the dismemberment,
according to our work, really means the destruction or removal
of a large part of the body the torso, the arms, hand, helvis,
(30:22):
legs or feet, and any destruction or elimination of a
smaller part thereof of any you know, it would be mutilation.
And the reason it's important is there are differences in
the psychology and motives of people according to which of
those things they're doing. What it sounds like here. We
don't know how how much butchery there was, but this
(30:43):
sounds like dismemberment offense. And with dismemberment, we found in
our research that the vast majority offenders are doing that
to get rid of body parts because of concern about capture.
The outside, you know, looking in makes it seem like
it's some kind of bizarre, psychotic, crazy thing to do,
but the reality is it's a pretty organized thing to
(31:05):
do that's done by a person that's trying to clean
up after they've eliminated people. Now, the other thing that
I can kind of put some in a unique position
here is I know that, you know, there's been a
charge that this man has killed not only this woman
but her parents, which would place him in the category
of mass murder. When I was at Columbia Medical Center,
(31:28):
I led the largest study ever done of mass murder.
And what I can tell you is is that in
order to know the motives of a person who commits
mass murder. We have to know what was used to kill.
If a gun is used, there's a very low likelihood
that the person was seriously disturbed or mentally ill. If
something else was used, like a knife, then we start
(31:50):
thinking that this was an individual who was unwell in
some way. The statistics, it becomes much more probable that
the person was disturbed.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
If they use an Is that what you said?
Speaker 10 (32:01):
Yes, the use of a knife would be more of
a giveaway that you're dealing with somebody that would be
authentically odd inter personally, a little more kind.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Of unwell, right, Are you saying insane? Not insane, just odd? Odd?
Speaker 10 (32:16):
For example, the individual might be paranoid or a little
bit aggressive.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Are you talking about someone that kills and as members
with a knife.
Speaker 10 (32:23):
Talking about someone who commits a mass murder using a knife.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Well, what doesn't it go without saying that they're odd?
Speaker 6 (32:29):
Well odd?
Speaker 10 (32:30):
And when I say odd, I don't mean odd because
you've committed murder or anything like that. I mean odd
that even at baseline, the person would say peculiar things
would be a little bit kind of odd to the
average individual, hot headed, a little paranoid, a little peculiar,
and that matches what we're hearing and that weird recording
from TikTok and some of these stories about the detachment
(32:54):
and the coldness between the members of the family. Now,
what's interesting about this is when we see these kinds
of cases where you know, there's been this explosive potential
killing of a family and then there's dismemberment, there's usually
one of two reasons it happens. One is elimination murder,
as I term it, which is where the idea is
(33:16):
to simply get rid of them because they are an
impediment to something like, for example, I want to have
a new romance or I am trying to get my
hands on some money. The other that you see is
some kind of domestic matter that causes an emotional disruption
and somebody in an absolute rage kills someone and then
has to kill everyone who has witnessed it in the family.
(33:39):
So that what I would suppose, if it turns out
that this is indeed a mass murder followed by dismemberment,
was that there was some kind of hot headed, angry,
odd person who became enraged or had a motive to
get rid of these people did so and then attempted
in a clumsy, weird way to And the reason it's
(34:02):
so odd and the stories are ridiculous is often that
the person is odd and lacks that kind of interpersonal
empathy to kind of pick up that people would think
these stories were weird.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Let's go back to the Haskell's neighbor, Elle Benemy Elle question.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I know you spent a good bit of time with May.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Do you have any knowledge of Haskell having a fixation
for on martial arts and kept samurai swords and crossbows
in them?
Speaker 5 (34:34):
Yeah, so I did. I did notice that about him.
I know that she mentioned that he would direct or
produce martial arts related movies or videos, or that he
would go in martial arts troops to Japan, I believe,
and I don't know why I remember this, but I
(34:55):
seem to recall that he may have a black belt
or a couple of blood belts for martial arts, and
and then I did know about their having various weapons
in the house, such as the stores and samurai swords
I believe across bow firearms. So that that's definitely something
(35:16):
that stayed very top of mind for me as a
mom of four living next door.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Did her mays, children tell your children about all the
weapons to the point you did not want your children
alone at their home upstairs?
Speaker 5 (35:33):
Yes, so they did mention that to my kids several
points about like let's say a samurai sword, or pointing
up to where supposedly a specific firearm was kept. So
that made me very nervous about their them going upstairs
to one of the bedrooms. I did, of course, I
(35:57):
trust me and I I did really like her three boys,
so I was happy for them to play with my kids.
I just didn't wonder to be any accident.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back, guys.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
We're talking about Sam Haskell, the fourth living in a
multi million dollar home out in La his wife working.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Like a dog to support him and their three children.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
He didn't even have to take care of the children
because her parents moved in to take care of the
children so she could work.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Now, in this last.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Court appearance that happened in the last days, once again
he didn't have on a shirt. And the hearing before that,
in front of a different judge that was back in January,
he again appeared half naked. Is warn velcrow outfit to
his prison blues, Rolls kept flipping down, prompting his lawyer
(37:03):
to object to his client being photographed in court, saying
his bare chest was dehumanizing. I personally think he was
flexing his chest, but that's just me. In response to that,
the judge presiding over the hearing order photographers to only
shoot Haskell from.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
The neck up.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
But at this last hearing the attorney did not object.
Why because Judge Lisa Lynch, the new judge, allowed no
photographs in court at all. Now, this day in court
was supposed to be the day set for a preliminary
hearing to be scheduled, where ELA's district attorney will present
evidence and testimony and Judge Lynch will rule whether the
(37:46):
case against Haskell.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Is strong enough for him to go to a jury trial.
It's very simple.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Preliminary hearings can be interchanged with grand jury indictments charging mechanism.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
What's the hold up? I mean, look at the evidents
that we know about so far.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It now appears Haskell won't have a full preliminary hearing
for another ninety days, meaning in twenty twenty five, Haskell
could face the death penalty if he's convicted. May's friends
have stated she wanted to divorce Haskell for at least
(38:32):
four years, but she was so afraid his powerful agent
father would convince courts to give him or their son,
Sam Haskell the fourth custody of her three sons, Samuel eleven,
James eight, and little William just six. Delay, delay, delay,
(38:58):
A defense attorney's best friend, we wait as justice unfolds
for May and her parents.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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