April 3, 2024 • 42 mins
New searches are underway by volunteers as the hunt for Sebastian Rogers continues. Glasses were found in the area and police are working to determine whether those glasses belong to the missing teen.
Initially, mother Katie Proudfoot reports the autistic teen missing after finding his bed empty in the morning before school.
An extensive search began with authorities using helicopters, drones, search-and-rescue dogs, boats, and teams on foot. Over 1,000 square miles have been covered, including a landfill across state lines in Kentucky.
Police officials say so far there is still no indication of foul play as the investigation enters week six.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Seth Rogers- Sebastian’s father, #SebastianStrong, Facebook: Sebastian Rogers Missing, GofundMe: Finding Sebastian Rogers family support: https://www.gofundme.com/f/finding-sebastian-rogers-family-support
- Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” Twitter: @TrialDoc”
- Brian Trascher – Vice President of the United Cajun Navy
- Courtney Lasky, M.Ed., LBA, BCBA – Board-certified Behavior Analyst, Autism Expert, and Chief Clinical Officer with Little Stars Therapy Services
- Lauren Conlin – Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of “Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4
- Dave Mack- CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Literally in the last hour, a new search has been
launched for missing autistic boy Sebastian Rogers. Why why is
there a new search recanvassing areas that have already been searched.
Could it have anything to do with the fact that
sebastians glasses.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
May have been found and right.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Now controversy swirling about a polygraph?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories,
joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
what we know right now.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
But I do know this.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't need an expert to tell me that there
has been an alert that went out to media. A
new search is taking place right now as we speak
for Sebastian Rogers, the missing autistic boy.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Is there new information that has not been released to
us as a location been identified that it's more important
than other locations. This is unusual for a research of
an area that may have already been searched.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
What precipitated the new search this?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
As we learn glasses eyeglasses have been found? Are the
Sebastians first of all?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
On the new search?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Joining me Lauren Conlin investigative reporter and host of The Outlier, Lauren,
thank you for being with us. I understand that a
new search has.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Just been launched. Who what where went? Why? Tell me? Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
So, as you said, Nancy is in Hendersonville, and it's
the same areas, and it's sheriffs in Sumner County and
counties all over, and it's EMS workers and it's more volunteers,
and I believe it is the Sumner County EMS is
(02:18):
saying six to ten miles and so on. So this
happened this morning.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
This is breaking news.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
They are saying this has nothing to do with the
press conference yesterday with the glasses found.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
But that is all we know.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
When you hear Lauren Collin, who's been on the case
from the very beginning of missing autistic boys Sebastian Rogers,
when you hear say volunteers, there's a caveat to that
they are law enforcement EMTs, people in the criminal law business,
all banning together for a new search this as we
(02:56):
learn that glasses have been found that could be very
significant in joining me is someone who is acutely aware
of all the facts surrounding that pair of glasses.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Seth Rogers is with us.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Seth is Sebastian's biological father, and you may have gone
online and seeing Seth. At first you see nothing but
densely forested woodland, and then you realize it's Seth Rogers
out there on foot looking for his son.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
He hasn't quit.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
He took a brief respite over Easter break, and now
he's back at it. Seth Rogers, thank you for being
with us. You can find him at Sebastians Strong. Seth,
tell me about the discovery of the glasses.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
My volunteers found them in Gallatin around two ten hutch
Street on Monday.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Seth, no offense, but you're speaking Greek to me. Okay,
where is that? Where's that in real life? To Sebastian's
home where he was living with his mother, Miss Proudfoot.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
It's about fourteen miles from his mom's residence. It's not
in Hendersonville.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Had he recently gotten new glasses? Or am I seeing
Seth Rogers his actual glasses?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
They were close enough that I asked the Sumner County
to bag and tag them. I mean when I saw
him through the pictures for my volunteers, and they stated
they couldn't get a hold of anybody. I flagged down
a deputy sheriff and I told them to put on
some gloves, put them in a bag, and bring them in.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
And that's what they did.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
They took pictures around the area to show where they
were laying and how they were laying on the street,
so they would have some type of regulation on where
they were placed or left at or however they needed.
And they brought them into our volunteer where our volunteers
(05:05):
together every morning, and chain of evidence was completed, and
they took them in.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Guys joining us is Sebastian's biological father, Seth Rogers. Seth,
I want to circle back to what you said. These
glasses were found about fourteen miles from where Sebastian resided
with his mother and stepfather. A volunteer found them. Were
you on the search when the volunteer found them.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
I was not with the group, not with that group.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Where then, were correct?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Were the glasses out in a forested area where they
heard you mentioned a street where they thrown by the
side of the street.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
They were on the side of the road.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So, okay, you just clarified something for me. It's in
a residential area. Like a cul de sac.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
I don't believe it was a cul de sac, but
I believe it's hutch Court, so I believe it was
leading into a cul de sac.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
If you were in a car, how long would it
take you to get from where Sebastian lived with his
mom to where the glasses were.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Found, depending on traffic, probably about fourteen to fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Of course, we're talking about an area that has hills,
some mountains, so it's not always as simple as it
sounds to go fourteen miles. It could take fourteen minutes.
It could take an hour if you have to go
over a hill to get there. But long story short,
he's telling us about fifteen minutes from home. Do you
(06:35):
believe Sebastian has ever walked through this area?
Speaker 6 (06:39):
I have no idea. I don't even know what's in
the area.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I wonder if he had any friends there.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
But you believe these glasses are similar enough to the
glasses we're seeing that you asked for them to be
backed where they cracked. Were they broken in any way, No, ma'am.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
They had some scratch marks on the inside of the
nose piece and that was it. The lenses word scratch
there is no scuff marks on the outside of them.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Guys, you are hearing Seth Rogers just a Sebastian's biodad
speaking about a discovery this weekend, a discovery regarding Sebastian's glasses. Now,
the reality is it is a simple matter to determine
if these are really his. Seth is telling us they
look enough like them that they could very well be his,
and they've been taken into evidence to make sure. What
(07:27):
we do is take the lens out and compare it
to his last diagnosis and his last lens prescription to
find out are these really Sebastian's glasses and if so,
why were they there? Also, we're going to be looking
for Prince. We're going to be looking for any DNA
at all on these glasses. What, if anything, can they
(07:50):
tell us? Back to Lauren Colin, Guys, right now, as
we are speaking, a new search is underway for Sebastian.
Lauren Colin joining us from the outla lawyer Lauren, any
idea what caused what sparked a new search?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I mean, I think people at this point, and obviously
Seth Rogers included, are so worried and so concerned, especially
after hearing about the glasses. So I personally think this
also has to do with the Cajun Navy last week
saying Okay, we're going to step back, we're going to regroup,
We're not going to stop, and so in turn, I
(08:29):
think more people, more organizations stepped up to help.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So bottom line, we don't know, maybe the glasses, maybe
the fact that the Cajun Navy is stepping back, but we
know the search is happening right now, and we know
where the search is. It's an area that has already
been searched, which I find very very intriguing. Why are
they researching a particular area?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Nancy?
Speaker 7 (08:50):
If I can jump in for just a second, there
has just been a post from the Sumner County Sheriff's office.
They want to clarify that those eyeglasses that were found
are not again are not related to Sebastian Rogers.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
In addition to Lauren Colin and Seth Rogers joining us
is Dave mac Crime online dot Com investigative reporter who
has also been on the disappearance of Sebastian Rogers from
the very very beginning. Dave Mac, let me just say,
at the outset recently, the stepfather, mister Proudfoot, stated that
(09:30):
he would take a polygraph if we set it up.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Have the two of you taken a polygraph? I have?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I have not.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Would you be willing to?
Speaker 8 (09:51):
I've offered and volunteered on many occasions and take a polygraph?
And I was told directly by law enforcement because of
my whereabouts, I did not need one.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I understand, Miss Proudfoot. Did you pass your polygraph?
Speaker 8 (10:07):
I did?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Now now listen to this, he says, I've offered and
volunteered on many occasions to take a polygraph. I was
told directly by a law enforcement forcement book because of my.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Whereabouts, I did not need one.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Listen to more, and mister Proudfoot, you have volunteered to
take a polly?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
If I were to set up a polly for you,
would you take it?
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Named a place in time, ma'am, I'll be there.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Well we did. We did that.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
We set up a polygrapher, a very well respected polygrapher,
a place and a time. Mister Proudfoot tells us that
he has been instructed by the TBI not to be
on with us today and ask for help finding his son,
his step son, and not to take a polygraph.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I heard of that.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I always loved it when witnesses, targets, or defendants, anybody
would take a polygraph. If I want my own polygraph,
I would get one as an assistant district attorney. So
I find that very curious that he would be dissuaded
from asking for the help from the public as we
see a volunteer search launching right now with law enforcement,
(11:25):
and not to take a polygraph now very curious. Crime
Stories with Nancy Grace, Dave Mac, didn't mister Proudfoot, Chris Proudfoot,
(11:50):
Sebastian Roger's stepfather, didn't he tell us he would take
the polygraph anywhere, any time?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Isn't that true?
Speaker 9 (12:02):
He said it anywhere you named the place, I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
He also told this, Should I believe him or my
lioneers that he has never taken a polygraph before?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Didn't he tell us.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
That that's what he said?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
He told you that, Okay, Dave Mac Crime online dot
Com investigative reporter, did he not tell another outlet he
had already taken a polygraph and passed it?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yep?
Speaker 9 (12:25):
He sure did he exact words?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
He said. Somebody asked, explain please.
Speaker 9 (12:30):
He did interviews. He did a number of interviews. Nancy
when and in this one particular, asked about have you
taken a polygraph?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He said.
Speaker 9 (12:38):
Somebody asked the question, this is a direct quote. Was
a polygraph taken and has it been passed?
Speaker 10 (12:44):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (12:45):
I didn't specify who or when, But what I can
tell you everything has been vetted completely. Polygraphs have come
back as passed. So I'm confused as in why they're
all wondering if myself, my wife, and the biological father
took one exact words, that's what he said.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Okay, But Seth Roger ors, this is Sebastian's dad, his
bio dad, Sebastian Seth, I don't understand that because he
told me he would take a polygraph.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
If I set it up. I set it up.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I went through a lot of hoops to get it
set up, one convenient to him in the area where
he says he's working. Then he wouldn't take it and
blames the TBI. So now I find out he sold
other outlets he's taken when it passed. Do you know
the truth?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
I don't I really don't know, but I'll tell you what.
I volunteered to take polygraph. I was told that I wasn't.
I didn't need to because they have my location to whereabouts.
But I still volunteer, and if somebody wants me to
take one, that's something on my own free will. I
(13:50):
haven't been told by TBI that I can't take one.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I've got a lot of things I need to dissect
very quickly. Dave Matt, you and I have been scouring
the internet.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And speaking to various witnesses.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Mister Proudfoot tells me to my face that he hit
Sebastian with a belt. This is an autistic boy, an
autistic boy. Do they at his level of severity of autism?
And I've got an expert, Courtney Laski.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Is going to explain this to me. I did not
teach this in law school.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
How would that affect a child with autism? But that said,
I want to focus on what I'm hearing, Dave Matt,
help me. Dave, I'm hearing that it happened years ago.
In both of those quotes where you heard Chris Proudfoot speaking,
he said several years ago. Then he says, when I
(14:53):
press him on that, he says at least three years ago. However,
he stated a different scenario to a different person.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Explain Dave mac.
Speaker 9 (15:05):
He did in a YouTube interview, and in that interview
he described the actual belt whack. And you know, in
your interview he said that the belt whack did not
lead to a CPS call.
Speaker 7 (15:16):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I asked you about the age of Sebastian when Sebastian
was hit with a belt one thing at a time, brother,
the age of Sebastian, he said it was three years ago.
Speaker 9 (15:29):
He said in another interview that the fifteen year old
boy was upset. He was in trouble. He said, he's
fifteen and in trouble. He was describing why Sebastian was
mad about the punishment, the whack, and he said, fifteen
year old boy.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Punishment.
Speaker 9 (15:51):
Now, that's not three years ago, that's within the last
twelve months.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That is within the same year that Sebastian goes missing.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That is a significant point.
Speaker 9 (16:02):
And in your interview, Katie agreed with him. She was
saying at least three years.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yes, she did. You're right, You're absolutely right. What what's
happened is.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Birth December seventh. He just turned fifteen.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The significance of that is that he had not been
fifteen that long according to this, when he got whacked
with a belt. So does it matter when he got
whacked with a belt? To me, it matters if you're
telling two different stories, That's what matters. I've never been
(16:37):
hit or hit anyone with a belt, and I remember
the last time either one of my children or spanked.
It was Lucy because she clabbered John David in the
head with a piece of wood. She turned around and
looked at me and went, is that it basically because
I was spanking her through a huge dipe. Okay, it
didn't work. So that was the last snack. Long story short,
(17:03):
there's a whole scenario that I need to talk with
Ms Laski about hitting a child that is autistic with
the belt or any child with the belt, for Pete's sake.
But that said, what's concerning me now is two different stories.
And as Dave Mack first said, we've got a CPS issue.
Because if you will recall Dave Mack and that last
(17:24):
sound I played all mister proudfood speaking to me, I said,
how did that turn into a CPS Child protective Services complaint,
and he says that did not turn into a CPS complaint.
But wait a minute, he's told a different story to
a different person.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Tell me, Dave Mack and make sure you're.
Speaker 9 (17:43):
Right describing the belt whack, the specific belt whack hit
him one time with the belt, and Chris Browdfoot said,
seth that Sebastian went to school, told a teacher what
had happened, and he actually says the school, they're an
automatic reporter, and they reported it to CPS. He went
(18:08):
further to say that night, when they were sitting down
to dinner, a CPS worker came to their house that
evening to their house and by the way, he added,
they knew the CPS worker because she had been to
the house before. He went on to explain heroically how
(18:30):
he didn't get in trouble, but that this caseworker allegedly
took Sebastian outside and told him you can't tell lies
about people. You'll get in trouble yourself. So the story
from Chris Proudfoot in this other version is that he
spanked Sebastian. Sebastian went to school and told a teacher.
(18:53):
Teacher reported it to CPS. CPS came out of their
house that night while they're eating dinner and didn't even
want to hear. Chris probably puts the side of the
stories that I already know what happened, and took Sebastian
outside and talked to him. The boy needed help and
there was nobody helping parent.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay, Liz, if you don't mind, could you play twenty
three for me one more time? Listen to Sebastian's stepfather,
mister Proudfoot.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Was that the first time you had ever hit him
with a belt?
Speaker 8 (19:23):
Yes, ma'am, the one and only time.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Actually when was this.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Years ago?
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Ma'am?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Any idea? How many? Three? Ten? One?
Speaker 8 (19:44):
It probably at least three years ago.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I don't understand how that turned into a CPS or
Child Protective Services complaint?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
How were they alerted that you hit him with a belt.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Did not turn, that did not turn into a seat?
Speaker 8 (20:00):
A service called as we go to air.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right now, we are learning a new search is being
conducted by LA law enforcement volunteers, apparently re canvassing an
area that has already been searched. Why why the focus
on that one area? Joining me in the last moments,
Brian Trasher joining US VP of the United Cajun Navy, Brian, you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Know I've been talking a lot. A lot is happening.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
One, you called off the search one day just before
the search started. In two, there's a lot of hate
going on against the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You're out there on your own time, volunteering, trying to
help find Sebastian or clue of Sebastian. Somebody is full
of a lot of hate for volunteers, which proves no
good deed goes unpunished. I'm hearing, by the way, the
same thing something similar from Seth Rogers, who is Sebastia's
(21:06):
bio dad. The searches are being torpedoed. I don't understand it.
Number one, Brian Trasher, Why has the Cajun Navy pulled
out of a search?
Speaker 10 (21:20):
Well, just to be clear, we gave up or called
off leading the public searches who were no longer putting
out a public call for volunteers and leading searches with volunteers.
We did have some volunteers that were threatened. Despite what
the local PD said in their press conference, we did
have some credible threats.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
We have recordings of telephone threats. We have.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
Surveillance video of in person threats. I know it was
said that there was no police report filed. There was
a police report filed about a threat with Metro Nashville PD.
It's not clear as to whether there's departments share information
with each other. We did provide a copy of that
report with your producers, just to show that we are
telling the truth why they hate.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
I think that there.
Speaker 10 (22:07):
You know, there are some people out there who make
money off of tragedies, and when volunteer groups come in
and try to take over and help, I think it
takes away from their potential revenue. And when you mess
with people's money, they get mad. I think that's just
part of it. At a conversation with Seth Rodgers on
Easter Sunday, he has his own theories about why himself
(22:28):
and other volunteer groups are being impeded in the search
for Sebastian, about why they're receiving so much online hate.
I'll let Seth speak to it for himself and his
own experience.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yes, we'll do that.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I want to talk to you about you and the
Cajun Navy. I heard some of the threats myself recorded threats,
But could you succinctly, in a nutshell explain what type
of threats have been leveled against members of the Cajun Navy.
(22:58):
Here are out trying to find Sebastian.
Speaker 10 (23:01):
Basically, just a lot of you know, we're going to
run you out of town, We're gonna doxs you, We're gonna,
you know, tell everybody where your family lives, things like that.
But you know, Nancy, what we've found is that we've
run background checks and all the people that have made
these threats, they thought they could remain anonymous.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
And they're all career criminals.
Speaker 10 (23:18):
They all have rap sheets a mile long, so criminal
activity is nothing new to them. So it doesn't surprise
us that they would have the gumption to go ahead
and make threats like this. But I think what they
were mistaken is when they thought there was going to
be no retaliation and when we basically started exposing these
people and putting information out there, boy, they really freaked out.
So you know, my message to those people making threats,
(23:42):
you know, if you'll stop lying about the United Cajun Navy,
we'll stop telling the truth about you.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Okay, you know what, I don't really care Brian, who's
lying on who?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Those are just words.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I care about finding Sebastian, and I care about someone
trying to torpedo the search. Be it with law enforcement,
with the Cajun Navy, with Seth Rogers, the biological father
of Sebastian. Seth Rogers, you've told me that someone is
(24:15):
also trying to sabotage.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Your search for your own son. What's happening?
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Somebody doesn't want me to find my son. They have
been telling there's things that have been coming in off
the internet that I need to stop searching for him.
I've had people following me around since and since I
would say day nine, day ten. People have been following
me around. Once I started getting volunteers to help me,
(24:43):
they started following around my volunteers, trying to be an intimidated.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Factor.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
And now I found out that not only that, but
they're going back to where we've already flyed and they're
taking the flyers down.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Okay, I don't know what to make of this.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Brian Trasher is the vice president of the United Cajun Navy, Okay,
and there have been many incarnations of the Cajun Navy,
but this is what I know this group is out
searching for Sebastian. They called off part of the search
because they perceived threats. Now the bio Dad Seth is
(25:25):
telling me that flyers have been torn down for Sebastian.
I don't understand that. What's happening, Brian, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (25:34):
I mean, as you heard us say in the pasting,
you now heard Sebastian's father, Seth say that there are,
without question.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
People in the local community.
Speaker 10 (25:44):
Whether the locals or not remains to be seen, but
there are people there in Sumner County that do not
want this boy found, and they want people who are
searching for him to stop, and they've resorted to threats
to try to make them stop. Fortunately it hasn't worked
because we still have people out there looking, and I
know Seth is not going to stop looking for his son.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Guys, take a listen to what Dave Matt from Crime
Online has to say.
Speaker 11 (26:06):
The United Cajun Navy surprised many people that showed up
for a recent search in Hendersonville for Sebastian Rodgers. Just
before people were preparing together, the United Cajun Navy came
out with a post on Facebook and said they were
calling off their search for Sebastian Rodgers over security reasons.
Press for more details. The United Cajun Navy said they
are concerned over the security for their staff and volunteers,
(26:29):
as some are getting death threats online and in person.
They said they were going to regroup in a few
days and decide how best to move forward.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Again, no good deed going unpunished.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Why would people tear down flyers that have been placed
up by Sebastian's father looking for him and the total.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Free numbers and descriptions of the boy.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Why is this happening and why is the Cajun Navy
being threatened? I want to figure out, Brian Tresher, how
you that particular area to search.
Speaker 10 (27:02):
It was a combination of some information when we first
got there that Seth provided some areas that he had
showed us that had already been searched, in areas that
he felt would be.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Good to search.
Speaker 10 (27:14):
Other areas were just kind of triangulating from the last
known location of the young man at his home and
trying to figure out some places he would have been
easy for him to walk to, places that he frequented.
Before we knew that there were some places that he
liked to visit, but from what his mother said, he
(27:35):
didn't have a history of wandering off without telling anybody. So,
you know, we wanted to make sure that we were
searching every nook and cranny that we could to find
this boy.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
What can you tell me about that retention pond? There
were reports a dog had hit on the retention pond.
The pond was drained and nothing was found. Do I
have that correct?
Speaker 10 (27:54):
I don't have any information with regards to that. I
know there's been a lot of confusion about when dogs
hit and wear and things like that. We go with
the information that we have at the time. My understanding
is that pond was drained and nothing was found there.
But Seth might be able to tell you a little
bit more about some of the areas that the dogs
search closer to the home and if there were confirmed
(28:17):
hits or not.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Welcome back everybody, Seth Roger
joining us. This is Sebastian Roger's biological father. You can
find him at Sebastian Strong. Seth again, thank you for
being with us so much. I mean, when you're searching
for a missing child, I like the focus to be
(28:48):
on what is being done to find the child? What
can we do to help find the child? But instead
there's all this controversy surrounding the search for Sebastian, and
I find that very odd that people are not pulling
together to try to find Sebastia. But that said, can
you please shed some light on the search that occurred
(29:09):
around the proud Foot home. Did dogs hit on areas
around the home.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
And leading to the retention pond?
Speaker 5 (29:19):
I was first told by one of the dog handlers
that their dog didn't hit on a scent that took
them over into the construction area to a retention pond.
I was later told by law enforcement that it was
a false hit. I was also informed that they searched
that pond where the dog went to, and they did
(29:42):
not find anything. And I was told that they were
going to actually go back and drain that retention pond,
and they had drivened a separate retention pond.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So you think they may have already drained two ponds?
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
The reason I'm asking said, is because your ex Miss
Proudfoot stated that the dog hit and got Sebastian sent
around the home. Now I'm hearing it didn't. Was that
hit at the retention pond the false hit or was
(30:19):
it around their home?
Speaker 5 (30:21):
I'm being told by law enforcement that the dog hit
to the retention poem was a false hit.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do you know of any hit by the dogs around
the Proudfoot home at all?
Speaker 6 (30:32):
Not only outside?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Were their hits on the inside? I believe so, Okay,
there should have been.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Now this is my conundrum, seth.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
If there are no hits for Sebastian outside the Proudfoot home,
that would suggest he did not leave the home. Earlier,
I was asking the Proudfoots about their vehicles.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Was their make modeling year?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
To determine if there was a navigation system in those
vehicles that could tell me if the vehicles left the
home that night.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That's what I was getting at.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
I don't know the answer to that yet, but I
believe that there were you're telling me you were not
told of any K nine hit around the home?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's critical joining me.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensics psychologists who specializes in forensic psychology,
capital mitigation, and victim advocacy at Panthermedigation dot com. Doctor Sherry,
this search or Sebastian if he is alive he could
still be saved, but it is degrading into a lot
(31:41):
of infighting amongst searchers.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I don't understand that.
Speaker 12 (31:45):
I don't understand it either, and I certainly am no
expert in these kinds of searches. But it doesn't seem
to me that I've ever heard of anything so vitriolic
in the behavior of people searching to find a missing teenager.
One of the things that seems to be happening is
there seems to be maybe a little bit of territory,
(32:08):
you know, protecting their territory type thing, wanting maybe.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
To be the organization got a sherry. Yes, they're out
in the middle of the woods. His territory is that
no body No.
Speaker 12 (32:20):
I agree with you one hundred percent, Nancy. The thing is,
you know, we know now that trolling is a thing.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
People troll.
Speaker 12 (32:31):
I don't understand why this situation would attract trolls and
for people to make threats when everybody just wants to
find this little boy, preferably alive. It seems to me
that people should be jumping into help. So I don't
have an explanation for that, other than that when they
(32:51):
can remain anonymous, relatively anonymous, the trolling seems to increase,
but as Brian pointed out earlier, when these people are exposed,
all of a sudden they back off because they don't
want to be known as trolls.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Another question to you, Seth Rogers is a Sebastian's biological
father who has been out on foot searching for his son, Seth,
did you say you have or have not? Would would
not take a polygraph? I would wonderful if I set
one up for you? Will you take the polygraph?
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Maam okay?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Because you know I will hold this against you if
you then don't take the polygraph?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You understand that?
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Weird?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Because I want to know where everybody really was that night.
For instance, if mister Proudfoot was where he says he is,
says he was at work near Memphis, I believe he.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Would have been in his RV. Is that you're understanding, Seth?
Speaker 6 (33:55):
That would be my understanding.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So if you're at an RV park and I've been
in a lot of them with the twins and my husband,
they are covered in security cams, where's the security footage?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Did he leave? Did he go home? I don't know?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Has his RV been seized? Has it been processed. This
does not mean at all that he had anything to
do with Sebastia's disappearance. This is part of a thorough investigation.
That's all I'm saying. Question.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Did Sebastian know how to swim?
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Yes, mah, my son was like a fish.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Interesting, like a fish, he can walk? Okay, good to know.
We've had a lot of questions about that.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I have a question for Seth.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Please jump in and remember, guys, we're not having high
tea at Windsor Castle. I don't know how many times
he got to tell you this. We're not with Charles
and Camilla. So jump in.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You're hearing Lauren Colin go ahead, Lauren, yes. Sex.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
So we've heard law enforcement state many times that all
the parents are cooperating to me, and this is not
the same thing as being ruled out as a suspect.
Has law enforcement directly said to you we are ruling
you out as a suspect or we are looking at
someone else as a suspect. I'm just curious the difference there.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
And they've told me that we're all suspects. We're all
suspects until Sebastian is found. This is an open investigation.
So the only way that the investigation would close is
we find Sebastian, and that's my purpose, right.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And in terms of the last time I was on
this panel and we did ask Chris Proudfoot about the
United Casian Navy. His words exactly were when they were
at a restaurant and Katie was on the phone. He said, quote,
my wife was on the phone with the Cajun Navy
and that's how they were brought in. Did you happen
(35:58):
to hear him say that.
Speaker 6 (36:01):
I've heard that, he said, then, okay, and that is
not true at all.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
This is all you.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I've seen your mother post about this. I've seen the
Cajun Navy post about you. I just heard Brian, So
that is false.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
From my understanding, they're the ones that I reached out
to them. They were trying to get a hold of me.
I had somebody get a phone number so I could
turn around and speak to mister Tarul and I called
him up on his personal cell phone.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That's todd Okay, got it.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And then the last thing was that everybody wants to
know the picture with Sebastian without the glasses. You asked
for that to be photoshopped so people could see what
he looked like without glasses, just in case those are
possibly his.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
That is correct, Yes, ma'am joining me right now a
special guest, Courtney Last key Board certified behavior analyst, Autism Expert,
Chief clinical officer with Little Art Therapy Service. Courtney, thank
you for being with us. I understand, and of course
deeth correct me if I'm wrong that Sebastian suffered six
(37:11):
Q twenty seven chromosomal deletion disorder. What is that and
how would that affect him being lost right now?
Speaker 13 (37:19):
Yeah, So, anytime we have a chromosomal deletion syndrome, we
can think of it as an umbrella term. Our chromosomes
act as codes in our behavior the way we develop
with his specific deletion of the six Q twenty seven chromosome,
the symptoms related to that, Even though it is rare,
it does associate with intellectual disabilities, so we would see
(37:42):
the symptomology of autism spectrum disorders. But suddenly it also
is associated with a higher risk of seizures and possible
heart defects. It's very, very worrisome that Sebastian might have
those symptoms and be gone for so long without medical care.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
How would that affect him now if he is out
there and if he's still alive and lost.
Speaker 13 (38:04):
Yes, anytime we have that intellectual disability symptoms related to autism,
we know that those social skills are communication, which not
only is our expressive language, but it's also our receptive
what we're understanding, how we're processing the environment around us.
He may be struggling with understanding what is happening, what
(38:25):
he should do in different circumstances. I am so glad
to hear mister Rogers saying that he swims like a fish,
because we do know that ninety one percent of autistic children,
that is the highest risk of death for them is drowning.
It's scary, so we need that processing. He has probably
(38:45):
a delayed sense of danger and understanding what is dangerous
in certain circumstances.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Guys, I want you to stop for just one Mom
you're hearing Courtney Laski, who's an autism expert. What if,
what if he's still alive, what if he's being held
against his will? Will what if he's being sex assaulted
day after day after day.
Speaker 13 (39:09):
I have a strong hope that he is alive. I
have a strong strong hope that he is doing everything
he can to process the situation around him. We know
that any experience outside of his normal routine.
Speaker 12 (39:23):
Is going to be traumatic.
Speaker 13 (39:25):
He will come away from this situation with definite phobias,
more extreme rigid rigidity in his routines, and just the
inability possibly to communicate what has happened to him.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I want to go back to Seth, Roger, Seth, I
have so many questions for you, but we're running out
of our time together for today. But I want to
ask you this. I was listening to a statement of
one of mister Proudfoot's wives. I believe there have been five.
I'm not judging. I don't care who Mary s Auy
or doesn't Mary who. But this particular one named Nina,
(40:03):
stated that they had two children, once she had from
a prior relationship, the second she had with him, and
that the daughter had braces and he hit the daughter
in the mouth and busted her mouth. Guys, remember mister
Prowfoot nor the mother have been named a suspect or
(40:23):
a POI in this case. My question to you said,
did you know about any of that? I mean, she's
on tape saying it. I watched her say it. Did
you have any idea that there may have been other
issues of violence with children?
Speaker 5 (40:40):
No, man, I didn't. And I know that Chris has
been in Sebastian's life for a while now, before me
and Katie were divorced.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Sebastian ever said to you or tried to communicate to
you abuse in the home.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
No, He's on multiple occasions set there and.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
Told me he doesn't want to go back. And I've
asked him, why don't you want to go back? And
he won't. He wouldn't tell me. He didn't say why.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
He was just like, I just don't want to go back,
and it's you know, at that point in time, I'm
I'm just like, Okay, well, maybe it's the freedom that
he gets at my house. And he's a teenager, right,
and now I'm finding out a lot of this stuff,
and it's told.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Me, guys, won't you help us find Sebastian one eight
hundred TB I find one eight hundred eight two four
three four six three. Let's pause now and remember an
(41:48):
American hero, Jonathan Diller, just thirty one years old, shot
during a routine traffic stop New York from a long
line of Law Enforce Horsemont and Jonathan, a recent father,
leaving behind his beautiful wife, Stephanie, and one year old
(42:08):
baby boy, Ryan Jonathan Diller, American Hero. I want to
thank all of our guests, but especially thanks to you
for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Literally in the last hour, a new search has been
launched for missing autistic boy Sebastian Rogers. Why why is
there a new search recanvassing areas that have already been searched.
Could it have anything to do with the fact that
sebastians glasses.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
May have been found and right.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Now controversy swirling about a polygraph?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories,
joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
what we know right now.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
But I do know this.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I don't need an expert to tell me that there
has been an alert that went out to media. A
new search is taking place right now as we speak
for Sebastian Rogers, the missing autistic boy.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Is there new information that has not been released to
us as a location been identified that it's more important
than other locations. This is unusual for a research of
an area that may have already been searched.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
What precipitated the new search this?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
As we learn glasses eyeglasses have been found? Are the
Sebastians first of all?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
On the new search?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Joining me Lauren Conlin investigative reporter and host of The Outlier, Lauren,
thank you for being with us. I understand that a
new search has.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Just been launched. Who what where went? Why? Tell me? Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
So, as you said, Nancy is in Hendersonville, and it's
the same areas, and it's sheriffs in Sumner County and
counties all over, and it's EMS workers and it's more volunteers,
and I believe it is the Sumner County EMS is
(02:18):
saying six to ten miles and so on. So this
happened this morning.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
This is breaking news.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
They are saying this has nothing to do with the
press conference yesterday with the glasses found.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
But that is all we know.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
When you hear Lauren Collin, who's been on the case
from the very beginning of missing autistic boys Sebastian Rogers,
when you hear say volunteers, there's a caveat to that
they are law enforcement EMTs, people in the criminal law business,
all banning together for a new search this as we
(02:56):
learn that glasses have been found that could be very
significant in joining me is someone who is acutely aware
of all the facts surrounding that pair of glasses.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Seth Rogers is with us.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Seth is Sebastian's biological father, and you may have gone
online and seeing Seth. At first you see nothing but
densely forested woodland, and then you realize it's Seth Rogers
out there on foot looking for his son.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
He hasn't quit.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
He took a brief respite over Easter break, and now
he's back at it. Seth Rogers, thank you for being
with us. You can find him at Sebastians Strong. Seth,
tell me about the discovery of the glasses.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
My volunteers found them in Gallatin around two ten hutch
Street on Monday.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Seth, no offense, but you're speaking Greek to me. Okay,
where is that? Where's that in real life? To Sebastian's
home where he was living with his mother, Miss Proudfoot.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
It's about fourteen miles from his mom's residence. It's not
in Hendersonville.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Had he recently gotten new glasses? Or am I seeing
Seth Rogers his actual glasses?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
They were close enough that I asked the Sumner County
to bag and tag them. I mean when I saw
him through the pictures for my volunteers, and they stated
they couldn't get a hold of anybody. I flagged down
a deputy sheriff and I told them to put on
some gloves, put them in a bag, and bring them in.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
And that's what they did.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
They took pictures around the area to show where they
were laying and how they were laying on the street,
so they would have some type of regulation on where
they were placed or left at or however they needed.
And they brought them into our volunteer where our volunteers
(05:05):
together every morning, and chain of evidence was completed, and
they took them in.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Guys joining us is Sebastian's biological father, Seth Rogers. Seth,
I want to circle back to what you said. These
glasses were found about fourteen miles from where Sebastian resided
with his mother and stepfather. A volunteer found them. Were
you on the search when the volunteer found them.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
I was not with the group, not with that group.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Where then, were correct?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Were the glasses out in a forested area where they
heard you mentioned a street where they thrown by the
side of the street.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
They were on the side of the road.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So, okay, you just clarified something for me. It's in
a residential area. Like a cul de sac.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
I don't believe it was a cul de sac, but
I believe it's hutch Court, so I believe it was
leading into a cul de sac.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
If you were in a car, how long would it
take you to get from where Sebastian lived with his
mom to where the glasses were.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Found, depending on traffic, probably about fourteen to fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Of course, we're talking about an area that has hills,
some mountains, so it's not always as simple as it
sounds to go fourteen miles. It could take fourteen minutes.
It could take an hour if you have to go
over a hill to get there. But long story short,
he's telling us about fifteen minutes from home. Do you
(06:35):
believe Sebastian has ever walked through this area?
Speaker 6 (06:39):
I have no idea. I don't even know what's in
the area.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I wonder if he had any friends there.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
But you believe these glasses are similar enough to the
glasses we're seeing that you asked for them to be
backed where they cracked. Were they broken in any way, No, ma'am.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
They had some scratch marks on the inside of the
nose piece and that was it. The lenses word scratch
there is no scuff marks on the outside of them.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Guys, you are hearing Seth Rogers just a Sebastian's biodad
speaking about a discovery this weekend, a discovery regarding Sebastian's glasses. Now,
the reality is it is a simple matter to determine
if these are really his. Seth is telling us they
look enough like them that they could very well be his,
and they've been taken into evidence to make sure. What
(07:27):
we do is take the lens out and compare it
to his last diagnosis and his last lens prescription to
find out are these really Sebastian's glasses and if so,
why were they there? Also, we're going to be looking
for Prince. We're going to be looking for any DNA
at all on these glasses. What, if anything, can they
(07:50):
tell us? Back to Lauren Colin, Guys, right now, as
we are speaking, a new search is underway for Sebastian.
Lauren Colin joining us from the outla lawyer Lauren, any
idea what caused what sparked a new search?
Speaker 3 (08:06):
I mean, I think people at this point, and obviously
Seth Rogers included, are so worried and so concerned, especially
after hearing about the glasses. So I personally think this
also has to do with the Cajun Navy last week
saying Okay, we're going to step back, we're going to regroup,
We're not going to stop, and so in turn, I
(08:29):
think more people, more organizations stepped up to help.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So bottom line, we don't know, maybe the glasses, maybe
the fact that the Cajun Navy is stepping back, but we
know the search is happening right now, and we know
where the search is. It's an area that has already
been searched, which I find very very intriguing. Why are
they researching a particular area?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Nancy?
Speaker 7 (08:50):
If I can jump in for just a second, there
has just been a post from the Sumner County Sheriff's office.
They want to clarify that those eyeglasses that were found
are not again are not related to Sebastian Rogers.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
In addition to Lauren Colin and Seth Rogers joining us
is Dave mac Crime online dot Com investigative reporter who
has also been on the disappearance of Sebastian Rogers from
the very very beginning. Dave Mac, let me just say,
at the outset recently, the stepfather, mister Proudfoot, stated that
(09:30):
he would take a polygraph if we set it up.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Have the two of you taken a polygraph? I have?
Speaker 4 (09:46):
I have not.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Would you be willing to?
Speaker 8 (09:51):
I've offered and volunteered on many occasions and take a polygraph?
And I was told directly by law enforcement because of
my whereabouts, I did not need one.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I understand, Miss Proudfoot. Did you pass your polygraph?
Speaker 8 (10:07):
I did?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Now now listen to this, he says, I've offered and
volunteered on many occasions to take a polygraph. I was
told directly by a law enforcement forcement book because of my.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Whereabouts, I did not need one.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Listen to more, and mister Proudfoot, you have volunteered to
take a polly?
Speaker 6 (10:26):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
If I were to set up a polly for you,
would you take it?
Speaker 6 (10:34):
Named a place in time, ma'am, I'll be there.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Well we did. We did that.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
We set up a polygrapher, a very well respected polygrapher,
a place and a time. Mister Proudfoot tells us that
he has been instructed by the TBI not to be
on with us today and ask for help finding his son,
his step son, and not to take a polygraph.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I heard of that.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I always loved it when witnesses, targets, or defendants, anybody
would take a polygraph. If I want my own polygraph,
I would get one as an assistant district attorney. So
I find that very curious that he would be dissuaded
from asking for the help from the public as we
see a volunteer search launching right now with law enforcement,
(11:25):
and not to take a polygraph now very curious. Crime
Stories with Nancy Grace, Dave Mac, didn't mister Proudfoot, Chris Proudfoot,
(11:50):
Sebastian Roger's stepfather, didn't he tell us he would take
the polygraph anywhere, any time?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Isn't that true?
Speaker 9 (12:02):
He said it anywhere you named the place, I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
He also told this, Should I believe him or my
lioneers that he has never taken a polygraph before?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Didn't he tell us.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
That that's what he said?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
He told you that, Okay, Dave Mac Crime online dot
Com investigative reporter, did he not tell another outlet he
had already taken a polygraph and passed it?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yep?
Speaker 9 (12:25):
He sure did he exact words?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
He said. Somebody asked, explain please.
Speaker 9 (12:30):
He did interviews. He did a number of interviews. Nancy
when and in this one particular, asked about have you
taken a polygraph?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
He said.
Speaker 9 (12:38):
Somebody asked the question, this is a direct quote. Was
a polygraph taken and has it been passed?
Speaker 10 (12:44):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (12:45):
I didn't specify who or when, But what I can
tell you everything has been vetted completely. Polygraphs have come
back as passed. So I'm confused as in why they're
all wondering if myself, my wife, and the biological father
took one exact words, that's what he said.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Okay, But Seth Roger ors, this is Sebastian's dad, his
bio dad, Sebastian Seth, I don't understand that because he
told me he would take a polygraph.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
If I set it up. I set it up.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I went through a lot of hoops to get it
set up, one convenient to him in the area where
he says he's working. Then he wouldn't take it and
blames the TBI. So now I find out he sold
other outlets he's taken when it passed. Do you know
the truth?
Speaker 5 (13:29):
I don't I really don't know, but I'll tell you what.
I volunteered to take polygraph. I was told that I wasn't.
I didn't need to because they have my location to whereabouts.
But I still volunteer, and if somebody wants me to
take one, that's something on my own free will. I
(13:50):
haven't been told by TBI that I can't take one.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
I've got a lot of things I need to dissect
very quickly. Dave Matt, you and I have been scouring
the internet.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And speaking to various witnesses.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Mister Proudfoot tells me to my face that he hit
Sebastian with a belt. This is an autistic boy, an
autistic boy. Do they at his level of severity of autism?
And I've got an expert, Courtney Laski.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Is going to explain this to me. I did not
teach this in law school.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
How would that affect a child with autism? But that said,
I want to focus on what I'm hearing, Dave Matt,
help me. Dave, I'm hearing that it happened years ago.
In both of those quotes where you heard Chris Proudfoot speaking,
he said several years ago. Then he says, when I
(14:53):
press him on that, he says at least three years ago. However,
he stated a different scenario to a different person.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Explain Dave mac.
Speaker 9 (15:05):
He did in a YouTube interview, and in that interview
he described the actual belt whack. And you know, in
your interview he said that the belt whack did not
lead to a CPS call.
Speaker 7 (15:16):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I asked you about the age of Sebastian when Sebastian
was hit with a belt one thing at a time, brother,
the age of Sebastian, he said it was three years ago.
Speaker 9 (15:29):
He said in another interview that the fifteen year old
boy was upset. He was in trouble. He said, he's
fifteen and in trouble. He was describing why Sebastian was
mad about the punishment, the whack, and he said, fifteen
year old boy.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Punishment.
Speaker 9 (15:51):
Now, that's not three years ago, that's within the last
twelve months.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
That is within the same year that Sebastian goes missing.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
That is a significant point.
Speaker 9 (16:02):
And in your interview, Katie agreed with him. She was
saying at least three years.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yes, she did. You're right, You're absolutely right. What what's
happened is.
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Birth December seventh. He just turned fifteen.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
The significance of that is that he had not been
fifteen that long according to this, when he got whacked
with a belt. So does it matter when he got
whacked with a belt? To me, it matters if you're
telling two different stories, That's what matters. I've never been
(16:37):
hit or hit anyone with a belt, and I remember
the last time either one of my children or spanked.
It was Lucy because she clabbered John David in the
head with a piece of wood. She turned around and
looked at me and went, is that it basically because
I was spanking her through a huge dipe. Okay, it
didn't work. So that was the last snack. Long story short,
(17:03):
there's a whole scenario that I need to talk with
Ms Laski about hitting a child that is autistic with
the belt or any child with the belt, for Pete's sake.
But that said, what's concerning me now is two different stories.
And as Dave Mack first said, we've got a CPS issue.
Because if you will recall Dave Mack and that last
(17:24):
sound I played all mister proudfood speaking to me, I said,
how did that turn into a CPS Child protective Services complaint,
and he says that did not turn into a CPS complaint.
But wait a minute, he's told a different story to
a different person.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Tell me, Dave Mack and make sure you're.
Speaker 9 (17:43):
Right describing the belt whack, the specific belt whack hit
him one time with the belt, and Chris Browdfoot said,
seth that Sebastian went to school, told a teacher what
had happened, and he actually says the school, they're an
automatic reporter, and they reported it to CPS. He went
(18:08):
further to say that night, when they were sitting down
to dinner, a CPS worker came to their house that
evening to their house and by the way, he added,
they knew the CPS worker because she had been to
the house before. He went on to explain heroically how
(18:30):
he didn't get in trouble, but that this caseworker allegedly
took Sebastian outside and told him you can't tell lies
about people. You'll get in trouble yourself. So the story
from Chris Proudfoot in this other version is that he
spanked Sebastian. Sebastian went to school and told a teacher.
(18:53):
Teacher reported it to CPS. CPS came out of their
house that night while they're eating dinner and didn't even
want to hear. Chris probably puts the side of the
stories that I already know what happened, and took Sebastian
outside and talked to him. The boy needed help and
there was nobody helping parent.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay, Liz, if you don't mind, could you play twenty
three for me one more time? Listen to Sebastian's stepfather,
mister Proudfoot.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Was that the first time you had ever hit him
with a belt?
Speaker 8 (19:23):
Yes, ma'am, the one and only time.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Actually when was this.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Years ago?
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Ma'am?
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Any idea? How many? Three? Ten? One?
Speaker 8 (19:44):
It probably at least three years ago.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I don't understand how that turned into a CPS or
Child Protective Services complaint?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
How were they alerted that you hit him with a belt.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Did not turn, that did not turn into a seat?
Speaker 8 (20:00):
A service called as we go to air.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Right now, we are learning a new search is being
conducted by LA law enforcement volunteers, apparently re canvassing an
area that has already been searched. Why why the focus
on that one area? Joining me in the last moments,
Brian Trasher joining US VP of the United Cajun Navy, Brian, you.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Know I've been talking a lot. A lot is happening.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
One, you called off the search one day just before
the search started. In two, there's a lot of hate
going on against the Cajun Navy.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You're out there on your own time, volunteering, trying to
help find Sebastian or clue of Sebastian. Somebody is full
of a lot of hate for volunteers, which proves no
good deed goes unpunished. I'm hearing, by the way, the
same thing something similar from Seth Rogers, who is Sebastia's
(21:06):
bio dad. The searches are being torpedoed. I don't understand it.
Number one, Brian Trasher, Why has the Cajun Navy pulled
out of a search?
Speaker 10 (21:20):
Well, just to be clear, we gave up or called
off leading the public searches who were no longer putting
out a public call for volunteers and leading searches with volunteers.
We did have some volunteers that were threatened. Despite what
the local PD said in their press conference, we did
have some credible threats.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
We have recordings of telephone threats. We have.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
Surveillance video of in person threats. I know it was
said that there was no police report filed. There was
a police report filed about a threat with Metro Nashville PD.
It's not clear as to whether there's departments share information
with each other. We did provide a copy of that
report with your producers, just to show that we are
telling the truth why they hate.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
I think that there.
Speaker 10 (22:07):
You know, there are some people out there who make
money off of tragedies, and when volunteer groups come in
and try to take over and help, I think it
takes away from their potential revenue. And when you mess
with people's money, they get mad. I think that's just
part of it. At a conversation with Seth Rodgers on
Easter Sunday, he has his own theories about why himself
(22:28):
and other volunteer groups are being impeded in the search
for Sebastian, about why they're receiving so much online hate.
I'll let Seth speak to it for himself and his
own experience.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yes, we'll do that.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I want to talk to you about you and the
Cajun Navy. I heard some of the threats myself recorded threats,
But could you succinctly, in a nutshell explain what type
of threats have been leveled against members of the Cajun Navy.
(22:58):
Here are out trying to find Sebastian.
Speaker 10 (23:01):
Basically, just a lot of you know, we're going to
run you out of town, We're gonna doxs you, We're gonna,
you know, tell everybody where your family lives, things like that.
But you know, Nancy, what we've found is that we've
run background checks and all the people that have made
these threats, they thought they could remain anonymous.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
And they're all career criminals.
Speaker 10 (23:18):
They all have rap sheets a mile long, so criminal
activity is nothing new to them. So it doesn't surprise
us that they would have the gumption to go ahead
and make threats like this. But I think what they
were mistaken is when they thought there was going to
be no retaliation and when we basically started exposing these
people and putting information out there, boy, they really freaked out.
So you know, my message to those people making threats,
(23:42):
you know, if you'll stop lying about the United Cajun Navy,
we'll stop telling the truth about you.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Okay, you know what, I don't really care Brian, who's
lying on who?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Those are just words.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I care about finding Sebastian, and I care about someone
trying to torpedo the search. Be it with law enforcement,
with the Cajun Navy, with Seth Rogers, the biological father
of Sebastian. Seth Rogers, you've told me that someone is
(24:15):
also trying to sabotage.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Your search for your own son. What's happening?
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Somebody doesn't want me to find my son. They have
been telling there's things that have been coming in off
the internet that I need to stop searching for him.
I've had people following me around since and since I
would say day nine, day ten. People have been following
me around. Once I started getting volunteers to help me,
(24:43):
they started following around my volunteers, trying to be an intimidated.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Factor.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
And now I found out that not only that, but
they're going back to where we've already flyed and they're
taking the flyers down.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Okay, I don't know what to make of this.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Brian Trasher is the vice president of the United Cajun Navy, Okay,
and there have been many incarnations of the Cajun Navy,
but this is what I know this group is out
searching for Sebastian. They called off part of the search
because they perceived threats. Now the bio Dad Seth is
(25:25):
telling me that flyers have been torn down for Sebastian.
I don't understand that. What's happening, Brian, Yeah.
Speaker 10 (25:34):
I mean, as you heard us say in the pasting,
you now heard Sebastian's father, Seth say that there are,
without question.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
People in the local community.
Speaker 10 (25:44):
Whether the locals or not remains to be seen, but
there are people there in Sumner County that do not
want this boy found, and they want people who are
searching for him to stop, and they've resorted to threats
to try to make them stop. Fortunately it hasn't worked
because we still have people out there looking, and I
know Seth is not going to stop looking for his son.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Guys, take a listen to what Dave Matt from Crime
Online has to say.
Speaker 11 (26:06):
The United Cajun Navy surprised many people that showed up
for a recent search in Hendersonville for Sebastian Rodgers. Just
before people were preparing together, the United Cajun Navy came
out with a post on Facebook and said they were
calling off their search for Sebastian Rodgers over security reasons.
Press for more details. The United Cajun Navy said they
are concerned over the security for their staff and volunteers,
(26:29):
as some are getting death threats online and in person.
They said they were going to regroup in a few
days and decide how best to move forward.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Again, no good deed going unpunished.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Why would people tear down flyers that have been placed
up by Sebastian's father looking for him and the total.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Free numbers and descriptions of the boy.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Why is this happening and why is the Cajun Navy
being threatened? I want to figure out, Brian Tresher, how
you that particular area to search.
Speaker 10 (27:02):
It was a combination of some information when we first
got there that Seth provided some areas that he had
showed us that had already been searched, in areas that
he felt would be.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Good to search.
Speaker 10 (27:14):
Other areas were just kind of triangulating from the last
known location of the young man at his home and
trying to figure out some places he would have been
easy for him to walk to, places that he frequented.
Before we knew that there were some places that he
liked to visit, but from what his mother said, he
(27:35):
didn't have a history of wandering off without telling anybody. So,
you know, we wanted to make sure that we were
searching every nook and cranny that we could to find
this boy.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
What can you tell me about that retention pond? There
were reports a dog had hit on the retention pond.
The pond was drained and nothing was found. Do I
have that correct?
Speaker 10 (27:54):
I don't have any information with regards to that. I
know there's been a lot of confusion about when dogs
hit and wear and things like that. We go with
the information that we have at the time. My understanding
is that pond was drained and nothing was found there.
But Seth might be able to tell you a little
bit more about some of the areas that the dogs
search closer to the home and if there were confirmed
(28:17):
hits or not.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Welcome back everybody, Seth Roger
joining us. This is Sebastian Roger's biological father. You can
find him at Sebastian Strong. Seth again, thank you for
being with us so much. I mean, when you're searching
for a missing child, I like the focus to be
(28:48):
on what is being done to find the child? What
can we do to help find the child? But instead
there's all this controversy surrounding the search for Sebastian, and
I find that very odd that people are not pulling
together to try to find Sebastia. But that said, can
you please shed some light on the search that occurred
(29:09):
around the proud Foot home. Did dogs hit on areas
around the home.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
And leading to the retention pond?
Speaker 5 (29:19):
I was first told by one of the dog handlers
that their dog didn't hit on a scent that took
them over into the construction area to a retention pond.
I was later told by law enforcement that it was
a false hit. I was also informed that they searched
that pond where the dog went to, and they did
(29:42):
not find anything. And I was told that they were
going to actually go back and drain that retention pond,
and they had drivened a separate retention pond.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So you think they may have already drained two ponds?
Speaker 6 (29:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
The reason I'm asking said, is because your ex Miss
Proudfoot stated that the dog hit and got Sebastian sent
around the home. Now I'm hearing it didn't. Was that
hit at the retention pond the false hit or was
(30:19):
it around their home?
Speaker 5 (30:21):
I'm being told by law enforcement that the dog hit
to the retention poem was a false hit.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Do you know of any hit by the dogs around
the Proudfoot home at all?
Speaker 6 (30:32):
Not only outside?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Were their hits on the inside? I believe so, Okay,
there should have been.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Now this is my conundrum, seth.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
If there are no hits for Sebastian outside the Proudfoot home,
that would suggest he did not leave the home. Earlier,
I was asking the Proudfoots about their vehicles.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Was their make modeling year?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
To determine if there was a navigation system in those
vehicles that could tell me if the vehicles left the
home that night.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That's what I was getting at.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
I don't know the answer to that yet, but I
believe that there were you're telling me you were not
told of any K nine hit around the home?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (31:15):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That's critical joining me.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensics psychologists who specializes in forensic psychology,
capital mitigation, and victim advocacy at Panthermedigation dot com. Doctor Sherry,
this search or Sebastian if he is alive he could
still be saved, but it is degrading into a lot
(31:41):
of infighting amongst searchers.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I don't understand that.
Speaker 12 (31:45):
I don't understand it either, and I certainly am no
expert in these kinds of searches. But it doesn't seem
to me that I've ever heard of anything so vitriolic
in the behavior of people searching to find a missing teenager.
One of the things that seems to be happening is
there seems to be maybe a little bit of territory,
(32:08):
you know, protecting their territory type thing, wanting maybe.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
To be the organization got a sherry. Yes, they're out
in the middle of the woods. His territory is that
no body No.
Speaker 12 (32:20):
I agree with you one hundred percent, Nancy. The thing is,
you know, we know now that trolling is a thing.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
People troll.
Speaker 12 (32:31):
I don't understand why this situation would attract trolls and
for people to make threats when everybody just wants to
find this little boy, preferably alive. It seems to me
that people should be jumping into help. So I don't
have an explanation for that, other than that when they
(32:51):
can remain anonymous, relatively anonymous, the trolling seems to increase,
but as Brian pointed out earlier, when these people are exposed,
all of a sudden they back off because they don't
want to be known as trolls.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Another question to you, Seth Rogers is a Sebastian's biological
father who has been out on foot searching for his son, Seth,
did you say you have or have not? Would would
not take a polygraph? I would wonderful if I set
one up for you? Will you take the polygraph?
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Maam okay?
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Because you know I will hold this against you if
you then don't take the polygraph?
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You understand that?
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Weird?
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Because I want to know where everybody really was that night.
For instance, if mister Proudfoot was where he says he is,
says he was at work near Memphis, I believe he.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Would have been in his RV. Is that you're understanding, Seth?
Speaker 6 (33:55):
That would be my understanding.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
So if you're at an RV park and I've been
in a lot of them with the twins and my husband,
they are covered in security cams, where's the security footage?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Did he leave? Did he go home? I don't know?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Has his RV been seized? Has it been processed. This
does not mean at all that he had anything to
do with Sebastia's disappearance. This is part of a thorough investigation.
That's all I'm saying. Question.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Did Sebastian know how to swim?
Speaker 6 (34:27):
Yes, mah, my son was like a fish.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Interesting, like a fish, he can walk? Okay, good to know.
We've had a lot of questions about that.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I have a question for Seth.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Please jump in and remember, guys, we're not having high
tea at Windsor Castle. I don't know how many times
he got to tell you this. We're not with Charles
and Camilla. So jump in.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
You're hearing Lauren Colin go ahead, Lauren, yes. Sex.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
So we've heard law enforcement state many times that all
the parents are cooperating to me, and this is not
the same thing as being ruled out as a suspect.
Has law enforcement directly said to you we are ruling
you out as a suspect or we are looking at
someone else as a suspect. I'm just curious the difference there.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
And they've told me that we're all suspects. We're all
suspects until Sebastian is found. This is an open investigation.
So the only way that the investigation would close is
we find Sebastian, and that's my purpose, right.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And in terms of the last time I was on
this panel and we did ask Chris Proudfoot about the
United Casian Navy. His words exactly were when they were
at a restaurant and Katie was on the phone. He said, quote,
my wife was on the phone with the Cajun Navy
and that's how they were brought in. Did you happen
(35:58):
to hear him say that.
Speaker 6 (36:01):
I've heard that, he said, then, okay, and that is
not true at all.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
This is all you.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I've seen your mother post about this. I've seen the
Cajun Navy post about you. I just heard Brian, So
that is false.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
From my understanding, they're the ones that I reached out
to them. They were trying to get a hold of me.
I had somebody get a phone number so I could
turn around and speak to mister Tarul and I called
him up on his personal cell phone.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
That's todd Okay, got it.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And then the last thing was that everybody wants to
know the picture with Sebastian without the glasses. You asked
for that to be photoshopped so people could see what
he looked like without glasses, just in case those are
possibly his.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
That is correct, Yes, ma'am joining me right now a
special guest, Courtney Last key Board certified behavior analyst, Autism Expert,
Chief clinical officer with Little Art Therapy Service. Courtney, thank
you for being with us. I understand, and of course
deeth correct me if I'm wrong that Sebastian suffered six
(37:11):
Q twenty seven chromosomal deletion disorder. What is that and
how would that affect him being lost right now?
Speaker 13 (37:19):
Yeah, So, anytime we have a chromosomal deletion syndrome, we
can think of it as an umbrella term. Our chromosomes
act as codes in our behavior the way we develop
with his specific deletion of the six Q twenty seven chromosome,
the symptoms related to that, Even though it is rare,
it does associate with intellectual disabilities, so we would see
(37:42):
the symptomology of autism spectrum disorders. But suddenly it also
is associated with a higher risk of seizures and possible
heart defects. It's very, very worrisome that Sebastian might have
those symptoms and be gone for so long without medical care.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
How would that affect him now if he is out
there and if he's still alive and lost.
Speaker 13 (38:04):
Yes, anytime we have that intellectual disability symptoms related to autism,
we know that those social skills are communication, which not
only is our expressive language, but it's also our receptive
what we're understanding, how we're processing the environment around us.
He may be struggling with understanding what is happening, what
(38:25):
he should do in different circumstances. I am so glad
to hear mister Rogers saying that he swims like a fish,
because we do know that ninety one percent of autistic children,
that is the highest risk of death for them is drowning.
It's scary, so we need that processing. He has probably
(38:45):
a delayed sense of danger and understanding what is dangerous
in certain circumstances.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Guys, I want you to stop for just one Mom
you're hearing Courtney Laski, who's an autism expert. What if,
what if he's still alive, what if he's being held
against his will? Will what if he's being sex assaulted
day after day after day.
Speaker 13 (39:09):
I have a strong hope that he is alive. I
have a strong strong hope that he is doing everything
he can to process the situation around him. We know
that any experience outside of his normal routine.
Speaker 12 (39:23):
Is going to be traumatic.
Speaker 13 (39:25):
He will come away from this situation with definite phobias,
more extreme rigid rigidity in his routines, and just the
inability possibly to communicate what has happened to him.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I want to go back to Seth, Roger, Seth, I
have so many questions for you, but we're running out
of our time together for today. But I want to
ask you this. I was listening to a statement of
one of mister Proudfoot's wives. I believe there have been five.
I'm not judging. I don't care who Mary s Auy
or doesn't Mary who. But this particular one named Nina,
(40:03):
stated that they had two children, once she had from
a prior relationship, the second she had with him, and
that the daughter had braces and he hit the daughter
in the mouth and busted her mouth. Guys, remember mister
Prowfoot nor the mother have been named a suspect or
(40:23):
a POI in this case. My question to you said,
did you know about any of that? I mean, she's
on tape saying it. I watched her say it. Did
you have any idea that there may have been other
issues of violence with children?
Speaker 5 (40:40):
No, man, I didn't. And I know that Chris has
been in Sebastian's life for a while now, before me
and Katie were divorced.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Sebastian ever said to you or tried to communicate to
you abuse in the home.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
No, He's on multiple occasions set there and.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
Told me he doesn't want to go back. And I've
asked him, why don't you want to go back? And
he won't. He wouldn't tell me. He didn't say why.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
He was just like, I just don't want to go back,
and it's you know, at that point in time, I'm
I'm just like, Okay, well, maybe it's the freedom that
he gets at my house. And he's a teenager, right,
and now I'm finding out a lot of this stuff,
and it's told.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Me, guys, won't you help us find Sebastian one eight
hundred TB I find one eight hundred eight two four
three four six three. Let's pause now and remember an
(41:48):
American hero, Jonathan Diller, just thirty one years old, shot
during a routine traffic stop New York from a long
line of Law Enforce Horsemont and Jonathan, a recent father,
leaving behind his beautiful wife, Stephanie, and one year old
(42:08):
baby boy, Ryan Jonathan Diller, American Hero. I want to
thank all of our guests, but especially thanks to you
for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com