October 19, 2025 • 41 mins
Taylor Meyer plans a Valentine's Day dinner for his wife, Deborah, with the theme "Bring Paris to You." Pulling out all the stops, he has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and orders food from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. After a lovely dinner, he gives his wife a Valentine's Day card with a personal message, and they dance to their wedding song.
When the song ends, Deborah does not react as Taylor hopes, and they begin to argue. She leaves the house for about 20 minutes. When she returns, Taylor accuses her of cheating with a coworker and claims she visited her boyfriend, who had just gotten off work. He demands to see the messages on her watch and check her phone. When she refuses, a physical fight breaks out. Taylor pins her to the ground, sits on her back, and chokes her while grabbing the phone.
He finds a number saved as "My Best Friend Emily" and calls it. A man answers. Taylor tells him, "It's your... fault."
Deborah continues to struggle and challenges her husband, asking, "What are you going to do, kill me? You're going to hurt me and leave our kids with no parents?" She hits Taylor in the head with a water bottle. He responds by striking her in the head with a wine bottle.
Deborah screams for help, calling for her children and the police. The person on the other end of the call hears her cries. When Deborah becomes unresponsive, Taylor goes to the kitchen, grabs "a big-ass knife," and stabs her 40 times.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Greg Morse - Partner at the law firm of King Morse; current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida); Former West Palm Beach Public Defender’s Office; Author: “The Untested” found on Amazon; website: kingmorse.com
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: “Deal Breaker;" featured in hit show “Paris in Love” on Peacock; IG & TicTok: @drbethanymarshall; X: @DrBethanyLive
- Barry Hutchison - Owner & Chief Investigator for Barry & Associates Investigative Services [located in Kansas & Missouri]
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth); New Podcast: "DOA - Dead On Arrival," LAUNCHING April 7th; Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Shannon Henry - President & Founder of SASS Go, (Surviving Assault Standing Strong) a nonprofit on a mission to eradicate abuse, trafficking and violence against women and girls globally, Case Consultant, Adjunct Professor at the University of South Carolina in the Department of Education, www.sassgo.org, FB, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok: @sassgoglobal
- Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel; Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNews
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A bloody Valentine.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
A husband murders his wife because she quote just didn't
give a shit about his Paris themed date, and Nancy Grace,
this is crime Stories, thank.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
You for being with us. A Valentine's Day dinner turns
deadly and Indiana mother of three young kids is murdered
during a romantic dinner.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Does it sound that romantic to me?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
He goes to Kroger to the Fine Wine aisle, brings
home a bottle of wine and plays their favorite song
along with the kids drawing.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Of the Eiffel Tower?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What is she not supposed to remember the affair he had?
Now let me understand this is this real? A husband
accused of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife forty times his words,
not mine, because she didn't give a shot about his
(01:10):
Paris themed night date.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I think I've got that right, but maybe I'm wrong. Listen.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance.
May respond to the upscale sixty six hundred block of
Westwood Drive, but cannot get into the home. Officers knock
on the front door but did not hear a response,
and decide force is necessary and breach the door.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm gonna get straight to the facts, but first I'm
going to go to doctor Bethany Marshall RENOUNCEDSYCHO and was
joining us out of the LA.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You can find her at doctor Bethany MARSHALLMD dot com. Wait,
that's doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and you can see
her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being
with us. Let me understand something. Hobby puts on a
sad little song, what does he pull it up on
his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song?
Buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and
(02:06):
has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower,
and he's angry that she quote his words, doesn't give
a about his Paris theme night date, so he murders her.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
What is she was?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
She supposed to forget about the affair he had and
be just bowled over by a glass of red wine.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
If we look at this from a domestic violence perspective,
this husband probably wanted power and control over her, because
that's the m O with DV, and so probably him
having an affair in the past, making her feel bad
about herself. Probably giving her very little in the marriage
was probably getting her to a point where she wanted
(02:46):
some independence, and the fact that she wanted some independence
destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's
Day dinner so he can try to get control over
him again.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
He's not trying to.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Seduce her, give a gift or do something nice for her.
He wants her back in the fold. But when she
leaves for twenty minutes, he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out
with the boyfriend, and then he decompensates, and that's when
the ragefulness and you know, he takes the power over
her to a whole new level. When you kill somebody,
(03:19):
that's the ultimate power.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Let me understand something, doctor Bethany, What does it mean
having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in
intercity Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years at
the Better.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Women Center on the hotline?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
How does it escalate or is that even the right word?
To get that angry because she didn't like your iPhone
playing the night we met or whatever it was, and
giving me a glass of wine how does that escalate
into murder? Because in my world, bethany years of training
(04:00):
makes me look at the world a different way, such
as is their premeditation? Was this planned? When did he
hatch the plot? What can I prove to a jury?
What is probative to me? So the term you use escalate,
I don't know that I agree with that, because that
somehow means that the situation.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Got out of control and whoops, she's dead. That's not
what happened. He had to go get the bottle that
he used to bludgeon her, stab her.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That took time and a forethought, a technical term we
use in the law.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
It didn't just escalate and whoops, it happened, right right,
He didn't.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
In other words, he didn't snap because people love that word.
So I see where you're going with this, and you're correct.
Probably what happened is at the beginning of the marriage,
he had tight control over her, and she wanted to
have autonomy over her whole life, her own life. Maybe
she took a college course, or started getting friends, or
(05:05):
went out and got a job. And as she became
more and more independent, the escalation was that he became
more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember, he sat on her
back and was scrolling through her phone. He was trying
to spy on her through her watch. So when it
escalated in that moment, it wasn't just like a snap
(05:27):
or a sudden escalation. It had been escalating over years.
But the fact is, when she said, Okay, what are
you going to do?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Kill me?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
That was one act of independence. When she left and
got in her car and drove away, that was another
act of independence. So I would think that homicide that
was contemplated at an unconscious level, or hatefulness that was
contemplated for months or years, finally finally finally spilled over
(05:56):
when she became her own person.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Okay, doctor Bethany, and I accept everything that you just said.
For those of you just joining us, a husband who
is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his
wife dead when she quote his words, not mine when
she quote didn't give a share about his Paris theme party,
(06:19):
so he murders her. On Valentine's Greg Morris Joining Me Guys,
Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida is
a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King Morse.
Your name should be first, by the way, former West
Palm Beach Public Defender's Office and author of the Untested
on Amazon. Greg, you know what of the many things
(06:41):
that I hate is when people say.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I snapped, or she snapped, or he snapped. There is
no snap defense under the law.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Okay, So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise,
because that's a lie. He would have to in order
to murder her in this manner bludgeoning the Hey, Christina Raya,
I'm coming to you. But how many children.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Did they have? Two? Or three?
Speaker 7 (07:12):
Three children, all under the age of.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Five, Greg Morris.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
The children are at home, by the way, asleep, he
had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require
a long period of time, such as I'm going to
poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month,
where the little r say, every day in his coffee
till he is dead, not required. In fact, the time
(07:37):
required under the law, whether we like it or not,
can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment,
the blink of an eye, the time it takes me
to raise this gun and pull the trigger.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
That is enough time. Under the law for premeditation.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
In other words, murder one malice, murder, murder, A forethought
this guy, if the allegations are true, husband, how to
go and get the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it
over his head and bludget her over and over and
over with the thick glass of a wine bottle, and
then stab her. The knife to just materialize in his hand.
(08:16):
Had to get a knife and use it. So long
story short, that is time to form intent.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
You're right.
Speaker 8 (08:25):
Intent can come up in the moment. You're one hundred
percent right under the law. But in these type of cases,
when you talk about the phrase snapped, and I've represented
people accused of violent felonies for twenty five years, and
one thing is when the act to commit the violence,
most people don't understand that moment in time and the
consequence and wish they can take.
Speaker 7 (08:45):
It all back.
Speaker 8 (08:46):
But what we can't do is look at an insanity.
We can't look at the crime. It's violent, it's horrible,
So therefore the person must be insane. That crime is
the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here,
and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably
have a timeline of this person the husband you know
of getting frustrated, getting more warped than his understanding of
(09:08):
his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in
a white coat in a room, but mental illness can
develop subtly, and it can develop over time. These folks
were looking for help that I guess an appointment with
a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, that makes you.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Your misstatement of.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
The law is shameless mental illness. He had no prior
mental illness at all. He got mad because his wife,
and he said this, she just didn't give us about
my parents' them mine.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
He said that that is that is anger. Yes, no,
it's anger defense. This was a ragonal law.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Yes, no, rageful killing, one hundred percent rageful killing that
amount of.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Under the law. Can you answer that with a straight face, Mors.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
But if I'm living in reality where that is the
appropriate response to her reaction, then yes it is again, Nancy,
the crime.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Is he you say, is anger the appropriate response to her.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Reaction for his date nine? Okay, First of all, control.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Mike cut his mind right now, Shannon Henry, Right, there
is the problem crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Shannon Henry is joining me. She's the president and.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Founder of sas sass Go. It is surviving assault, standing
strong on a mission to eradicate abuse and violence against
women and girls.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Shannon, did you hear what he just said?
Speaker 9 (11:18):
I did, and I'm so glad you cut him off
so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This
was not just about power and control. This was about ownership.
He didn't have any anymore, and so he stole it.
It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion.
I don't want to hear that either. This was a
sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the
(11:40):
dress he made her put on, to the dance he
made her due to the end where she begged for
her life and the lives of her children. It was
the grand finale of their marriage, from start to finish,
and he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this
wasn't the first time she felt like her life was
being threatened, but it was the last.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Would you describe Shannon Henry?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And I'm going to go out to the national news
anchor at Salem News Channel, Christine Ohio. But Shannon Henry
joining us from surviving assault standing strong mission eradicate violence
on women.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
You said from the.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Dress he made her wear to the dance he made
her do.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 9 (12:25):
I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every
gift quote unquote was a threat and she knew it.
You don't go from zero to murder this fast. And
if she could clarify it for us all today, she
would beg us to listen to her final words of
help and what are you going to do? Murder me
(12:46):
and leave our children without parents? She was not confused
about him. There is a gap that we have in
the story between her working hard as a twelve hour
shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to
the date of February fourteenth, twenty twenty five where he
murdered her. But I guarantee you some of her friends
(13:08):
and co workers and family could fill in this gap
for us. But the red flags are there. This was
about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole
it and bragg to everyone who he could about taking it.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father
allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated, were warning signs missed?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Warning signs unappreciated?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That is not justification for murder and joining me who
I've got a lot of problems with him?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Greg Morris, a veteran trial lawyer.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
He's the partner at a big law firm, King Morse,
He's apparently the king of the courtroom down in Palm
Beach County, Florida.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But to Shannon Henry.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Joining us, you can look at Morse, but keep his
MinC cut for just a moment, Shannon, he joining me
from sas surviving assault standing strong.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
We got off topic because what you were.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Saying was so interesting, But I want to go back
to what Morse said. He responded and got angry to
her because of her reaction to his Paris theme night,
which was basically a Bible cheat red wine and playing
a song on his iPhone that was the theme night,
(14:29):
and then getting some sexy dress and making her wear
it and dance with him.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That was the theme night.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Okay, right there, Shannon Henry, I can't tell you how
many times I heard.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I did it because she fill in the blank.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Here is my seminal example, Shannon, This is a real example.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
This happened on the hotline at the Batter Women's Center.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The man beats the wife so badly she has to
go to the hospital because he was bringing people from
work home and he told her to make a Mexican dinner,
so she makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and
finds out, I don't remember which one she made, tacos
(15:18):
not Enchilada's. And he beat her to a pulp. So
he actually said, well, it's because she.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Made the wrong thing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Here, you hear Greg Morrise defend and I know what
he's doing.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
He's defending the husband here. That's his job. He is saying.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
He just had this response because of her reaction. She
reacted badly, and he responded, it's always the woman's fault, Shannon.
Speaker 9 (15:59):
It's always theman's fault. And what's so sad is to
look at the stack of red flags that are against him.
He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the
knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do
a song and dance in front of him and act
like she enjoyed it, and when she didn't seem to
appreciate it, he murdered her. And he is the only
(16:23):
one responsible for that.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
We also learned that he was convinced his wife was
dating a coworker.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Answer.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement twenty six years veteran detective,
now owner chief operator of Barry in Associates Investigative Services,
and you can find him on his new website, p
I Pride Investigator Barry b A r R.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Wife Barry, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Oh what a tangled web results from imagining your mate
having an affair with a co worker. Lucky for me,
my husband he knew I would never have an affair
with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men
that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg
irons and shackles.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And I have.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Never even considered that he would run around with a
client or a co worker. I just, in fact, one
time I read his emails one time. One time they
were so boring. He's a banker, My eyes bled. I
just it was awful if I had.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
To check up on a man to figure out if
he's cheating, why do I need him?
Speaker 6 (17:42):
Bye bye?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But here this guy was convinced she's having an affair,
and it justified murder.
Speaker 10 (17:49):
Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless of what the
circumstances are. I mean, so you know that as well
as I do. I think what we have here is
a classic case of when motive meets opperunity. I think
it was a long based talkic relationship that this young
lady unfortunately, should have been out of long before this
ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario
(18:12):
that I can even come up with in my mind
is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out
to be a swat call where the kids were endangered,
where he actually executed the children too, as the ultimate
showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you,
just to show you what I think of you. We've
seen that happen on swat calls many many, many times,
(18:33):
and we're fortunate if that didn't take place.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You mean, and what they call now Barry a family annihilator.
So what I'm asking you, and it was in a
very roundabout way, and I apologize for.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That, Barry. I know that as a PI you get
a lot of calls.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
About I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex wife blah blah
is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get
this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all.
Speaker 10 (19:01):
That's very true, very true. In fact, the biggest thing
that we do, and we tell all of our clients
SYS up front, is that our mission is to vet
your spouse that they are not cheating, and if it
turns out that they are, then we'll address it at
that point. But our mission is to vet them that
they are not doing.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So, guys, listen to what happened.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It
shows Deborah Meyer motionless and bloody on the floor of
her home with the caption your fault. Nine one one
Dispatch gets a call from the coworker of Deborah Meyer.
When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to
the door. Almost as soon as police arrive, so does
Deborah Meyer's coworkers.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Okay, I've got so much premeditation. It's out the ying
yang technical legal term. Here to Kristin Awayo joining me,
national news anchor Salem News, explain to me that sequence
of events, the.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Co worker.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Finds out that there's a quote domestic situation, which is,
you know, a euphemism for somebody's.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Getting their rear in beat, all right, that's what that means.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Coworker calls nine to one one and coworker says, Deborah
Meyer is being attacked right now, go to this address.
Cops get there, and then the coworker gets a text
describe that sequence of events for me, so I understand
exactly what happened.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
That's the wildest part about all of this, right. So,
Deborah Meyer's husband, Taylor actually calls a contact in the
phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is actually
the co worker while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back,
and she's screaming.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
In the background, help me, help me, help me.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
So her coworker hears this while her husband is telling
the coworker this is all your fault. So of course
the coworker calls the cops and says she's in danger.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
I can hear her screaming.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
He hops in his car high tails it over to
her house, as do the cops, and they're meeting in
the front yard. The cops are trying to get into
the front door. Of course, Taylor Myers not answering the
door because he's abusing his wife, possibly killing her.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
At that very moment.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Because it was while the coworker was standing in the
front yard of the home, he gets the text message
of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the floor of
her own home dead. So that's when police officers decide
to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer
was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But
it's almost safe to presume that he could have been
(21:34):
in the act of killing her while the police officers
and the coworker we're out on the front lawn trying
to get into the house. I mean, it was that
tight of a timeline.
Speaker 11 (21:44):
Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their
children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying,
I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children
with you, co parenting. I get that you have hobbies
and want some time to yourself, but I also feel
like that should be limited to certain times of the
day and not just immediately get home, shower and go
(22:04):
play games and ignore your family that has missed you
all day.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent
to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Owyo joining
me national news anchor Salem News. So she is asking
him to help her raise the children. I quote, get
you have hobbies and want time to yourself, but I
(22:29):
also feel like you should spend time with the children,
not just get home, shower and go play games. I
would go backflip after I work all day long and
make dinner. And if my husband came home and immediately
went to the back and got on video games.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Oh yeah, fur would fly. Let me just tell you that.
And she's writing in this nice email about it.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
And this was back in twenty twenty three, and this
is the same email where she accused him of cheating.
So the story of Infhtae is going back to the
beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was
in the email accused him of having a relationship with
another woman which he kept in contact constant context with,
And she even accused him of seeing that woman who
(23:15):
she thought she was dating, directly before the family went
and took family Christmas pictures.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
So she already thought he was cheating.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
He may have been cheating, he was ignoring the family,
she was reaching out, and she in that email actually
threatened to leave him, which she didn't want to do
because it was going to be hard to take care.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
Of the three kids. But she was going to Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
What did nude photos and somebody's phone mean to you?
Speaker 7 (23:38):
Cheatings?
Speaker 12 (23:39):
For me?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That means divorcee and doctor Bethany Marshall listened to this.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Deborah writes an
email to her husband accusing him of cheating, claiming he
met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their
family Christmas photo together at the mall. In the explosive email,
Debraa said she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude
photos from people he was with before they were together
as a couple. Nebra also accuses her husband of ignoring
(24:07):
her and the couple's three children to play video games.
She concludes the email with quote, raising three kids is exhausting,
but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone.
Just let me know and I'll figure something else out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Raising three children on her own.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's how she felt nude photos he's exchanging with old girlfriends,
according to her, ducking out to see the girlfriend before
the Christmas photo together. First of all, Bethany Marshall, do
you agree with me that sending nude photos is cheating.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I'm really surprised you said I thought you were going
to take the other tech.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
But explain to me. I mean I would be I
think so.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First
of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody is
stolen his phone and was doing it.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
But that said, it's cheating, Okay, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship,
this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he
wants to do, and Deborah was in a double mind.
She's sent out to work, she's a nurse, she supports
the family, and all the time that she's out there working,
he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him,
when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her.
(25:22):
I love what Shannon said about this is not just
about power. This is about ownership. He owns her and
he can do whatever he wants. Send her out like
a dog to work, the minute she gets home, go out,
have his own affair, or do whatever he wants to do.
He's highly manipulative, and he's been grooming her for years,
that she is just an object to be used. I
(25:44):
also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is
a part of his personality and it comes out when
he's talking to the police.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
It's almost like he's.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Bragging about the knife.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
And I think one underlying component that we all need
to recognize about DV is that perpetrators everything hurts their feelings,
Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by
the other person. So your story about the man who
beat his wife to a pault because she made tacos
rather than enchiladas, he probably.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Took that as a.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and
then went on the attack, because that is the classic pattern.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse
joining us please uncut his mic partner at King Morris,
veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think
about what you said, that he killed her because of
the way she reacted. Would you like to clarify your opinion?
Speaker 8 (26:47):
And with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has
to make a lot of leaps of faith, and frankly,
it's just it's not there and what we know so far.
What I was saying is that when people have mental illness,
and this is a hard case. You know, you were
a prosecutor temporary insanity illness, No, no, no, but I would.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Use the show, Nancy, all of your experts just made
my case for me.
Speaker 8 (27:14):
I'd hire them in my case. Talking about how he
wants to control an act that would that would let
us believe that he made know. What I'm saying is
that this guy there's no domestic violence before. So if
he wants to control every aspect of our life, and
he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports.
Generally we see this act out well before the murder.
(27:36):
In these cases, what we have is mental illness doesn't
just come with people in white coats and screaming about aliens.
It's very subtle. And if this guy believed at the
time that his wife's reaction he was living in this
alternate reality to him that caused him to do this, well,
you know, then you have he wasn't thinking right and
wrong in that situation. There's no evidence whatsoever that this
(28:00):
I was planning this. Did he plan to buy the
wine bottle before the show and do I mean before
the dinner so he can hit her over the head
with it. No, none of that is there.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Did he planted under the law once again, you are
contorting the law to suit your purposes.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Again, that degree a premeditation is not required.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
The only degree of premeditation can be formed in seconds,
by the time it takes him to walk in the
kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's the last time.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Plus he stabbed her forty times.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Do I have to say, Jody Arias, Do I have
to raise up that.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Specter Jody Arias standing traumas Alexander twenty nine times then
shot him in the head, leaving him to decompose in
the shower's tall Just because you attacked someone multiple times
does not insanity make it makes you a killer, a
cold bloody killer.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
That's what I started out with, that the act doesn't
make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth
of insanity. Sometimes when we have that killing someone, people
shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of
us because we wouldn't do it. But you know, under
the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane.
You knew right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it.
We My point is, Jodyarius didn't take pictures and send it.
(29:21):
Jodyarius didn't act like this was no case, and she
got caught. She yes, she took pictures and she.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Busted. She did take pictures.
Speaker 8 (29:34):
No, I understand that. I completely understand that she did.
Look how this guy acted in this case with the police,
that's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts.
They just don't.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
They don't do that fighting. The police come in by
knowing enough to barrickade the door. More more evidence of guilt.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know what, let me jog your memory as to
the real facts, not the facts in Greg Morse's world,
but the actual facts from the police reports.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Meyer decides to try and turn things around in his
marriage by preparing a Valentine's Day dinner with a theme
bring Paris to You. Pulling out all the stops, Meyer
has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to
decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and
orders food from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. After a lovely dinner,
he gives his wife a Valentine's Day card with a
(30:28):
personal message, and they dance to their wedding song.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
When the song ends and the dance is finished, Deborah
Meyer doesn't give her husband the reaction he wants and
they begin to argue.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
After hitting his wife in the head with a glass
wine bottle several times, Taylor Meyer says Deborah was unconscious,
but he wasn't sure if she was dead, so.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
He went into the kitchen and got a quote.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Big knife, a long one, and came back to her
while she is laid out on the floor and stabs
her over and over again in the chest. All told,
the thirty six year old mother of three, Deborah Meyer
is stabbed forty times after being beaten in the head
with a wine bottle.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It is her.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Trial lawyer at a palm beach describing how the husband
in this scenario now murder defendant Taylor Meyer says to police,
I wasn't sure if she was totally dead, so after
I beat her in the head with the wine bottle,
I went in the kitchen and got a quote his words,
not mine, big knife, a long one, and while she
(31:38):
laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again
in the chest.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Joining me now is.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Renowned chief medical examiner from Terrance County.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
That's fort Worth.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
doctor Kendall Crowns. He's about to launch a hit podcast
called DOA Did on arrival April seven, Doctor Kendall Crowns,
could you describe what the victim endured after the first
(32:15):
blow with the thick end of a wine bottle?
Speaker 12 (32:19):
Certainly so basically a bottle. When you're struck in the head,
the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head,
causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles
aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can
cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse.
(32:40):
You're going to have pain associated with that, headaches. But
if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at
her still seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where
they can't kill him with the wine bottle, so they
go switch up and find something else. He walked into
the kitchen, came back and then started stabbing where with
a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the
(33:01):
chest over forty times, clustered all together is what we
call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point,
and he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Doctor Kendall Crowns, after the first blow to the head
with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the
wine bottle was broken, so that corroborates your theory as
to the nature of the first blow.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I believe, based on the fact the wine bottle.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him
coming at her with a knife, lying there immobilized with
her children above her, asleep in bed, she sees her
husband approach her with a knife and the stabbing begins.
(33:53):
Is that scenario feasible, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 12 (33:57):
Yes, that is a possibility that she could still have
been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that
she was conscious. There's also a possibility that when he
beats her to the ground with the wine bottle, that
he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal column.
If the many possibilities, and that could leave her paralyzed.
And so she could still be conscious and see him
(34:19):
approaching with the knife and not be able to do
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
She was stabbed forty times for zero with a quote
big kitchen knife quote eight long one. Obviously, she died
from bleeding out. So explain to me if she was
not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured.
(34:46):
As she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest, so it's
going to.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
Take her a few minutes to bleed out from the
stab wounds. So each stab wound that he is able
to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting
of the skin and the sing of the organs with
the knife, and then the fact that she's being stabbed
in the chest and could collapse lungs making it difficult
for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood
up and then swallowing the blood, so she's getting blood
(35:13):
in her mouth and hailing the blood, gagging while she's
being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she
finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted forty stab wounds,
he could probably deliver those in that entire timeframe that
it takes her to bleed out.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took
pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to
Deborah's friend and coworker who called nine one one. Meyer
also texted his wife's family and friends, saying I killed
Debbie because she's a cheating, lying bitch. Meyer says wife
just didn't give a shit about the Paris themed date
he planned.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
And Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after
a Balentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the
father of three?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Let me understand what I'm hearing that he actually tells
police that.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
He murdered his wife because she quote just didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Give it about his Paris theme dinner, and Christina Ohio
joining a Salem news channel. He wrote the relatives, sent
her relatives a picture of her bludgeoned, stamped body and
said I killed Debbie because.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
She is a cheating line. Is that right?
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Yes, that is correct.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
He did that.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
He sent it to the coworker saying it's your fault.
And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police,
all of it just revealed in the abba.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
David, he was almost trying.
Speaker 6 (36:39):
To get them on his side, like explaining, you understand right,
she did this to me. This was the hardest I've
ever tried, he said, And if the hardest you've ever
tried is buying address taking your wife out to dinner,
it's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into
the relationship over the last four years.
Speaker 7 (36:54):
But he was.
Speaker 6 (36:55):
Literally explaining to the cops like they were boys, like
they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't
you understand she did this to me? She didn't care.
I worked so hard on the celebration and she just
didn't care.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, But I understood he
did not take her out to dinner that they ordered
delivery Japanese delivery.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, according to the what I read in the AffA David,
it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in.
It was that he got her a dinner from their
favorite Japanese steakhouse.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
To go with their Paris theme night. Okay, uh, Doctor
Bethany Marshall, help me out here. I killed Debbie because
she is a cheating line.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
He might as well fill that in with I killed
Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas. There's always a
reason why the woman deserves to be murdered. Have you
noticed that talks to agree with him? She's such a
hoe she's a liar, she's a cheater. She goes on
and on, she did this, she did that, I had.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
To kill her. Well, they're going to agree, and even
Father of the Year, you know, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Probably what was happening leading up to this too, was
that he was calling coworkers and family members and trying
to recruit everybody to be on his side. Because this
just spills over when he starts to talk to the police.
He probably feels very beleaguered by her, and it's very
common for these types of men to invest very little
into the relationship but expect everything back from the house
(38:24):
from the spouse. So he just orders up a steak dinner.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
He doesn't cook.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Perhaps he doesn't even take her to the restaurant, buys
her probably a horror stress, makes her dance to the music.
But he expects all these accolades and all this praise
from her. So it's almost like when you ask your
child to set the table for dinner and they just
do something really small like set a plate down, they
think they deserve so much a praise because that's where
(38:52):
they are developmentally. Well, these domestic abusers are caught developmentally
at that same phase of life. Where they just invest
the tiniest, teensiest little bit and when they don't get
all the praise they want, all help breaks lose.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
To Greg Morse, believe it or not, I'm giving you
the final argument.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Hit me, well, it is.
Speaker 8 (39:13):
This is not all of these factors and inferences you're
making to show premeditation. He's controlling. He's a domestic abuser.
So let's suppose there is no murder and we hear
this guy does this. It's just a story. A Paris
theme night. What a romantic thing he tried to bring
his wife Paris. How nice. So my point is he's
not acting like someone who planned this. If he was
(39:36):
aggressive in an abuser the whole night, when she leaves
for twenty minutes, why does she come back? You would
have seen signs of that. My point is, insanity can
come up below the surface and it can be there.
And having the appointment in three days lends me to
believe that this was not planned. This was something unless
you believe he planned the appointment to show that he
(39:56):
really loved his wife and was trying and tried to
set up an insanity the defense. But it's a horrible outcome.
It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong,
it is very challenging. But I think mental illness is
a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've talked about
this on TV and cases I've had before, and this
is the outgrowth of it, and it does create This
(40:17):
guy was living in his own reality, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Shannon Henry joining me present, founder of SAS Surviving Assault
Standing Strong. If what he just said was true, they
would empty out every jail in the country because everybody
would say I had a mental illness. I was angry,
that's right.
Speaker 9 (40:33):
And she came back because she had kids there and
she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help
was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy.
And I do want to say she was a nurse
to Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what
was happening to her body when it was happening, and
he knew that she would understand that experience too. So
(40:56):
while he may not have physically hit her before this day,
and there may not be police reports, he abused her
for years by doing his best to break her down
with infidelity and isolation and insecurity and by the way,
you can be depressed. You can be a psychopath, you
can be a narcissist without being an abuser, and I
(41:17):
want you to know I would never you would never
be able to hire me, and if I did come,
I would be honored to clarify that the abused women
endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful,
just awful, And shame on you for trying to make
(41:38):
it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not.
He knew what he was doing from start to finish,
from the dress to the stabbing, and then he bragged
about it.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A bloody Valentine.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
A husband murders his wife because she quote just didn't
give a shit about his Paris themed date, and Nancy Grace,
this is crime Stories, thank.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
You for being with us. A Valentine's Day dinner turns
deadly and Indiana mother of three young kids is murdered
during a romantic dinner.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Does it sound that romantic to me?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
He goes to Kroger to the Fine Wine aisle, brings
home a bottle of wine and plays their favorite song
along with the kids drawing.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Of the Eiffel Tower?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What is she not supposed to remember the affair he had?
Now let me understand this is this real? A husband
accused of bludgeoning and stabbing his wife forty times his words,
not mine, because she didn't give a shot about his
(01:10):
Paris themed night date.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I think I've got that right, but maybe I'm wrong. Listen.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance.
May respond to the upscale sixty six hundred block of
Westwood Drive, but cannot get into the home. Officers knock
on the front door but did not hear a response,
and decide force is necessary and breach the door.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm gonna get straight to the facts, but first I'm
going to go to doctor Bethany Marshall RENOUNCEDSYCHO and was
joining us out of the LA.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You can find her at doctor Bethany MARSHALLMD dot com. Wait,
that's doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and you can see
her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being
with us. Let me understand something. Hobby puts on a
sad little song, what does he pull it up on
his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song?
Buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and
(02:06):
has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower,
and he's angry that she quote his words, doesn't give
a about his Paris theme night date, so he murders her.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
What is she was?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
She supposed to forget about the affair he had and
be just bowled over by a glass of red wine.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
If we look at this from a domestic violence perspective,
this husband probably wanted power and control over her, because
that's the m O with DV, and so probably him
having an affair in the past, making her feel bad
about herself. Probably giving her very little in the marriage
was probably getting her to a point where she wanted
(02:46):
some independence, and the fact that she wanted some independence
destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's
Day dinner so he can try to get control over
him again.
Speaker 6 (02:58):
He's not trying to.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Seduce her, give a gift or do something nice for her.
He wants her back in the fold. But when she
leaves for twenty minutes, he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out
with the boyfriend, and then he decompensates, and that's when
the ragefulness and you know, he takes the power over
her to a whole new level. When you kill somebody,
(03:19):
that's the ultimate power.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Let me understand something, doctor Bethany, What does it mean
having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in
intercity Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years at
the Better.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Women Center on the hotline?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
How does it escalate or is that even the right word?
To get that angry because she didn't like your iPhone
playing the night we met or whatever it was, and
giving me a glass of wine how does that escalate
into murder? Because in my world, bethany years of training
(04:00):
makes me look at the world a different way, such
as is their premeditation? Was this planned? When did he
hatch the plot? What can I prove to a jury?
What is probative to me? So the term you use escalate,
I don't know that I agree with that, because that
somehow means that the situation.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Got out of control and whoops, she's dead. That's not
what happened. He had to go get the bottle that
he used to bludgeon her, stab her.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That took time and a forethought, a technical term we
use in the law.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
It didn't just escalate and whoops, it happened, right right,
He didn't.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
In other words, he didn't snap because people love that word.
So I see where you're going with this, and you're correct.
Probably what happened is at the beginning of the marriage,
he had tight control over her, and she wanted to
have autonomy over her whole life, her own life. Maybe
she took a college course, or started getting friends, or
(05:05):
went out and got a job. And as she became
more and more independent, the escalation was that he became
more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember, he sat on her
back and was scrolling through her phone. He was trying
to spy on her through her watch. So when it
escalated in that moment, it wasn't just like a snap
(05:27):
or a sudden escalation. It had been escalating over years.
But the fact is, when she said, Okay, what are
you going to do?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Kill me?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
That was one act of independence. When she left and
got in her car and drove away, that was another
act of independence. So I would think that homicide that
was contemplated at an unconscious level, or hatefulness that was
contemplated for months or years, finally finally finally spilled over
(05:56):
when she became her own person.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Okay, doctor Bethany, and I accept everything that you just said.
For those of you just joining us, a husband who
is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his
wife dead when she quote his words, not mine when
she quote didn't give a share about his Paris theme party,
(06:19):
so he murders her. On Valentine's Greg Morris Joining Me Guys,
Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida is
a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King Morse.
Your name should be first, by the way, former West
Palm Beach Public Defender's Office and author of the Untested
on Amazon. Greg, you know what of the many things
(06:41):
that I hate is when people say.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I snapped, or she snapped, or he snapped. There is
no snap defense under the law.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Okay, So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise,
because that's a lie. He would have to in order
to murder her in this manner bludgeoning the Hey, Christina Raya,
I'm coming to you. But how many children.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Did they have? Two? Or three?
Speaker 7 (07:12):
Three children, all under the age of.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Five, Greg Morris.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
The children are at home, by the way, asleep, he
had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require
a long period of time, such as I'm going to
poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month,
where the little r say, every day in his coffee
till he is dead, not required. In fact, the time
(07:37):
required under the law, whether we like it or not,
can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment,
the blink of an eye, the time it takes me
to raise this gun and pull the trigger.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
That is enough time. Under the law for premeditation.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
In other words, murder one malice, murder, murder, A forethought
this guy, if the allegations are true, husband, how to
go and get the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it
over his head and bludget her over and over and
over with the thick glass of a wine bottle, and
then stab her. The knife to just materialize in his hand.
(08:16):
Had to get a knife and use it. So long
story short, that is time to form intent.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
You're right.
Speaker 8 (08:25):
Intent can come up in the moment. You're one hundred
percent right under the law. But in these type of cases,
when you talk about the phrase snapped, and I've represented
people accused of violent felonies for twenty five years, and
one thing is when the act to commit the violence,
most people don't understand that moment in time and the
consequence and wish they can take.
Speaker 7 (08:45):
It all back.
Speaker 8 (08:46):
But what we can't do is look at an insanity.
We can't look at the crime. It's violent, it's horrible,
So therefore the person must be insane. That crime is
the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here,
and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably
have a timeline of this person the husband you know
of getting frustrated, getting more warped than his understanding of
(09:08):
his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in
a white coat in a room, but mental illness can
develop subtly, and it can develop over time. These folks
were looking for help that I guess an appointment with
a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, that makes you.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Your misstatement of.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
The law is shameless mental illness. He had no prior
mental illness at all. He got mad because his wife,
and he said this, she just didn't give us about
my parents' them mine.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
He said that that is that is anger. Yes, no,
it's anger defense. This was a ragonal law.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
Yes, no, rageful killing, one hundred percent rageful killing that
amount of.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Under the law. Can you answer that with a straight face, Mors.
Speaker 8 (10:11):
But if I'm living in reality where that is the
appropriate response to her reaction, then yes it is again, Nancy,
the crime.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Is he you say, is anger the appropriate response to her.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Reaction for his date nine? Okay, First of all, control.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Mike cut his mind right now, Shannon Henry, Right, there
is the problem crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Shannon Henry is joining me. She's the president and.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Founder of sas sass Go. It is surviving assault, standing
strong on a mission to eradicate abuse and violence against
women and girls.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Shannon, did you hear what he just said?
Speaker 9 (11:18):
I did, and I'm so glad you cut him off
so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This
was not just about power and control. This was about ownership.
He didn't have any anymore, and so he stole it.
It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion.
I don't want to hear that either. This was a
sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the
(11:40):
dress he made her put on, to the dance he
made her due to the end where she begged for
her life and the lives of her children. It was
the grand finale of their marriage, from start to finish,
and he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this
wasn't the first time she felt like her life was
being threatened, but it was the last.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Would you describe Shannon Henry?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
And I'm going to go out to the national news
anchor at Salem News Channel, Christine Ohio. But Shannon Henry
joining us from surviving assault standing strong mission eradicate violence
on women.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
You said from the.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Dress he made her wear to the dance he made
her do.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 9 (12:25):
I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every
gift quote unquote was a threat and she knew it.
You don't go from zero to murder this fast. And
if she could clarify it for us all today, she
would beg us to listen to her final words of
help and what are you going to do? Murder me
(12:46):
and leave our children without parents? She was not confused
about him. There is a gap that we have in
the story between her working hard as a twelve hour
shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to
the date of February fourteenth, twenty twenty five where he
murdered her. But I guarantee you some of her friends
(13:08):
and co workers and family could fill in this gap
for us. But the red flags are there. This was
about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole
it and bragg to everyone who he could about taking it.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father
allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated, were warning signs missed?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Warning signs unappreciated?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That is not justification for murder and joining me who
I've got a lot of problems with him?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Greg Morris, a veteran trial lawyer.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
He's the partner at a big law firm, King Morse,
He's apparently the king of the courtroom down in Palm
Beach County, Florida.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But to Shannon Henry.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Joining us, you can look at Morse, but keep his
MinC cut for just a moment, Shannon, he joining me
from sas surviving assault standing strong.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
We got off topic because what you were.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Saying was so interesting, But I want to go back
to what Morse said. He responded and got angry to
her because of her reaction to his Paris theme night,
which was basically a Bible cheat red wine and playing
a song on his iPhone that was the theme night,
(14:29):
and then getting some sexy dress and making her wear
it and dance with him.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That was the theme night.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Okay, right there, Shannon Henry, I can't tell you how
many times I heard.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I did it because she fill in the blank.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Here is my seminal example, Shannon, This is a real example.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
This happened on the hotline at the Batter Women's Center.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
The man beats the wife so badly she has to
go to the hospital because he was bringing people from
work home and he told her to make a Mexican dinner,
so she makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and
finds out, I don't remember which one she made, tacos
(15:18):
not Enchilada's. And he beat her to a pulp. So
he actually said, well, it's because she.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Made the wrong thing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Here, you hear Greg Morrise defend and I know what
he's doing.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
He's defending the husband here. That's his job. He is saying.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
He just had this response because of her reaction. She
reacted badly, and he responded, it's always the woman's fault, Shannon.
Speaker 9 (15:59):
It's always theman's fault. And what's so sad is to
look at the stack of red flags that are against him.
He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the
knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do
a song and dance in front of him and act
like she enjoyed it, and when she didn't seem to
appreciate it, he murdered her. And he is the only
(16:23):
one responsible for that.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
We also learned that he was convinced his wife was
dating a coworker.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Answer.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement twenty six years veteran detective,
now owner chief operator of Barry in Associates Investigative Services,
and you can find him on his new website, p
I Pride Investigator Barry b A r R.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Wife Barry, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Oh what a tangled web results from imagining your mate
having an affair with a co worker. Lucky for me,
my husband he knew I would never have an affair
with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men
that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg
irons and shackles.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And I have.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Never even considered that he would run around with a
client or a co worker. I just, in fact, one
time I read his emails one time. One time they
were so boring. He's a banker, My eyes bled. I
just it was awful if I had.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
To check up on a man to figure out if
he's cheating, why do I need him?
Speaker 6 (17:42):
Bye bye?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But here this guy was convinced she's having an affair,
and it justified murder.
Speaker 10 (17:49):
Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless of what the
circumstances are. I mean, so you know that as well
as I do. I think what we have here is
a classic case of when motive meets opperunity. I think
it was a long based talkic relationship that this young
lady unfortunately, should have been out of long before this
ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario
(18:12):
that I can even come up with in my mind
is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out
to be a swat call where the kids were endangered,
where he actually executed the children too, as the ultimate
showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you,
just to show you what I think of you. We've
seen that happen on swat calls many many, many times,
(18:33):
and we're fortunate if that didn't take place.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
You mean, and what they call now Barry a family annihilator.
So what I'm asking you, and it was in a
very roundabout way, and I apologize for.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
That, Barry. I know that as a PI you get
a lot of calls.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
About I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex wife blah blah
is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get
this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all.
Speaker 10 (19:01):
That's very true, very true. In fact, the biggest thing
that we do, and we tell all of our clients
SYS up front, is that our mission is to vet
your spouse that they are not cheating, and if it
turns out that they are, then we'll address it at
that point. But our mission is to vet them that
they are not doing.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So, guys, listen to what happened.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It
shows Deborah Meyer motionless and bloody on the floor of
her home with the caption your fault. Nine one one
Dispatch gets a call from the coworker of Deborah Meyer.
When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to
the door. Almost as soon as police arrive, so does
Deborah Meyer's coworkers.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Okay, I've got so much premeditation. It's out the ying
yang technical legal term. Here to Kristin Awayo joining me,
national news anchor Salem News, explain to me that sequence
of events, the.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Co worker.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Finds out that there's a quote domestic situation, which is,
you know, a euphemism for somebody's.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Getting their rear in beat, all right, that's what that means.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Coworker calls nine to one one and coworker says, Deborah
Meyer is being attacked right now, go to this address.
Cops get there, and then the coworker gets a text
describe that sequence of events for me, so I understand
exactly what happened.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
That's the wildest part about all of this, right. So,
Deborah Meyer's husband, Taylor actually calls a contact in the
phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is actually
the co worker while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back,
and she's screaming.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
In the background, help me, help me, help me.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
So her coworker hears this while her husband is telling
the coworker this is all your fault. So of course
the coworker calls the cops and says she's in danger.
Speaker 7 (20:54):
I can hear her screaming.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
He hops in his car high tails it over to
her house, as do the cops, and they're meeting in
the front yard. The cops are trying to get into
the front door. Of course, Taylor Myers not answering the
door because he's abusing his wife, possibly killing her.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
At that very moment.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
Because it was while the coworker was standing in the
front yard of the home, he gets the text message
of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the floor of
her own home dead. So that's when police officers decide
to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer
was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But
it's almost safe to presume that he could have been
(21:34):
in the act of killing her while the police officers
and the coworker we're out on the front lawn trying
to get into the house. I mean, it was that
tight of a timeline.
Speaker 11 (21:44):
Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their
children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying,
I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children
with you, co parenting. I get that you have hobbies
and want some time to yourself, but I also feel
like that should be limited to certain times of the
day and not just immediately get home, shower and go
(22:04):
play games and ignore your family that has missed you
all day.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent
to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Owyo joining
me national news anchor Salem News. So she is asking
him to help her raise the children. I quote, get
you have hobbies and want time to yourself, but I
(22:29):
also feel like you should spend time with the children,
not just get home, shower and go play games. I
would go backflip after I work all day long and
make dinner. And if my husband came home and immediately
went to the back and got on video games.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Oh yeah, fur would fly. Let me just tell you that.
And she's writing in this nice email about it.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
And this was back in twenty twenty three, and this
is the same email where she accused him of cheating.
So the story of Infhtae is going back to the
beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was
in the email accused him of having a relationship with
another woman which he kept in contact constant context with,
And she even accused him of seeing that woman who
(23:15):
she thought she was dating, directly before the family went
and took family Christmas pictures.
Speaker 7 (23:20):
So she already thought he was cheating.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
He may have been cheating, he was ignoring the family,
she was reaching out, and she in that email actually
threatened to leave him, which she didn't want to do
because it was going to be hard to take care.
Speaker 7 (23:31):
Of the three kids. But she was going to Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
What did nude photos and somebody's phone mean to you?
Speaker 7 (23:38):
Cheatings?
Speaker 12 (23:39):
For me?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That means divorcee and doctor Bethany Marshall listened to this.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Deborah writes an
email to her husband accusing him of cheating, claiming he
met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their
family Christmas photo together at the mall. In the explosive email,
Debraa said she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude
photos from people he was with before they were together
as a couple. Nebra also accuses her husband of ignoring
(24:07):
her and the couple's three children to play video games.
She concludes the email with quote, raising three kids is exhausting,
but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone.
Just let me know and I'll figure something else out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Raising three children on her own.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
That's how she felt nude photos he's exchanging with old girlfriends,
according to her, ducking out to see the girlfriend before
the Christmas photo together. First of all, Bethany Marshall, do
you agree with me that sending nude photos is cheating.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I'm really surprised you said I thought you were going
to take the other tech.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
But explain to me. I mean I would be I
think so.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First
of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody is
stolen his phone and was doing it.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
But that said, it's cheating, Okay, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship,
this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he
wants to do, and Deborah was in a double mind.
She's sent out to work, she's a nurse, she supports
the family, and all the time that she's out there working,
he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him,
when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her.
(25:22):
I love what Shannon said about this is not just
about power. This is about ownership. He owns her and
he can do whatever he wants. Send her out like
a dog to work, the minute she gets home, go out,
have his own affair, or do whatever he wants to do.
He's highly manipulative, and he's been grooming her for years,
that she is just an object to be used. I
(25:44):
also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is
a part of his personality and it comes out when
he's talking to the police.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
It's almost like he's.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Bragging about the knife.
Speaker 5 (25:54):
And I think one underlying component that we all need
to recognize about DV is that perpetrators everything hurts their feelings,
Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by
the other person. So your story about the man who
beat his wife to a pault because she made tacos
rather than enchiladas, he probably.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Took that as a.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and
then went on the attack, because that is the classic pattern.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse
joining us please uncut his mic partner at King Morris,
veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think
about what you said, that he killed her because of
the way she reacted. Would you like to clarify your opinion?
Speaker 8 (26:47):
And with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has
to make a lot of leaps of faith, and frankly,
it's just it's not there and what we know so far.
What I was saying is that when people have mental illness,
and this is a hard case. You know, you were
a prosecutor temporary insanity illness, No, no, no, but I would.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Use the show, Nancy, all of your experts just made
my case for me.
Speaker 8 (27:14):
I'd hire them in my case. Talking about how he
wants to control an act that would that would let
us believe that he made know. What I'm saying is
that this guy there's no domestic violence before. So if
he wants to control every aspect of our life, and
he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports.
Generally we see this act out well before the murder.
(27:36):
In these cases, what we have is mental illness doesn't
just come with people in white coats and screaming about aliens.
It's very subtle. And if this guy believed at the
time that his wife's reaction he was living in this
alternate reality to him that caused him to do this, well,
you know, then you have he wasn't thinking right and
wrong in that situation. There's no evidence whatsoever that this
(28:00):
I was planning this. Did he plan to buy the
wine bottle before the show and do I mean before
the dinner so he can hit her over the head
with it. No, none of that is there.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Did he planted under the law once again, you are
contorting the law to suit your purposes.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Again, that degree a premeditation is not required.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
The only degree of premeditation can be formed in seconds,
by the time it takes him to walk in the
kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
That's the last time.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Plus he stabbed her forty times.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Do I have to say, Jody Arias, Do I have
to raise up that.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Specter Jody Arias standing traumas Alexander twenty nine times then
shot him in the head, leaving him to decompose in
the shower's tall Just because you attacked someone multiple times
does not insanity make it makes you a killer, a
cold bloody killer.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
That's what I started out with, that the act doesn't
make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth
of insanity. Sometimes when we have that killing someone, people
shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of
us because we wouldn't do it. But you know, under
the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane.
You knew right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it.
We My point is, Jodyarius didn't take pictures and send it.
(29:21):
Jodyarius didn't act like this was no case, and she
got caught. She yes, she took pictures and she.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Busted. She did take pictures.
Speaker 8 (29:34):
No, I understand that. I completely understand that she did.
Look how this guy acted in this case with the police,
that's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts.
They just don't.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
They don't do that fighting. The police come in by
knowing enough to barrickade the door. More more evidence of guilt.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know what, let me jog your memory as to
the real facts, not the facts in Greg Morse's world,
but the actual facts from the police reports.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Meyer decides to try and turn things around in his
marriage by preparing a Valentine's Day dinner with a theme
bring Paris to You. Pulling out all the stops, Meyer
has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to
decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and
orders food from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. After a lovely dinner,
he gives his wife a Valentine's Day card with a
(30:28):
personal message, and they dance to their wedding song.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
When the song ends and the dance is finished, Deborah
Meyer doesn't give her husband the reaction he wants and
they begin to argue.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
After hitting his wife in the head with a glass
wine bottle several times, Taylor Meyer says Deborah was unconscious,
but he wasn't sure if she was dead, so.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
He went into the kitchen and got a quote.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Big knife, a long one, and came back to her
while she is laid out on the floor and stabs
her over and over again in the chest. All told,
the thirty six year old mother of three, Deborah Meyer
is stabbed forty times after being beaten in the head
with a wine bottle.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
It is her.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Trial lawyer at a palm beach describing how the husband
in this scenario now murder defendant Taylor Meyer says to police,
I wasn't sure if she was totally dead, so after
I beat her in the head with the wine bottle,
I went in the kitchen and got a quote his words,
not mine, big knife, a long one, and while she
(31:38):
laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again
in the chest.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Joining me now is.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Renowned chief medical examiner from Terrance County.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
That's fort Worth.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
doctor Kendall Crowns. He's about to launch a hit podcast
called DOA Did on arrival April seven, Doctor Kendall Crowns,
could you describe what the victim endured after the first
(32:15):
blow with the thick end of a wine bottle?
Speaker 12 (32:19):
Certainly so basically a bottle. When you're struck in the head,
the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head,
causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles
aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can
cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse.
(32:40):
You're going to have pain associated with that, headaches. But
if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at
her still seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where
they can't kill him with the wine bottle, so they
go switch up and find something else. He walked into
the kitchen, came back and then started stabbing where with
a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the
(33:01):
chest over forty times, clustered all together is what we
call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point,
and he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Doctor Kendall Crowns, after the first blow to the head
with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the
wine bottle was broken, so that corroborates your theory as
to the nature of the first blow.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I believe, based on the fact the wine bottle.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him
coming at her with a knife, lying there immobilized with
her children above her, asleep in bed, she sees her
husband approach her with a knife and the stabbing begins.
(33:53):
Is that scenario feasible, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 12 (33:57):
Yes, that is a possibility that she could still have
been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that
she was conscious. There's also a possibility that when he
beats her to the ground with the wine bottle, that
he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal column.
If the many possibilities, and that could leave her paralyzed.
And so she could still be conscious and see him
(34:19):
approaching with the knife and not be able to do
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
She was stabbed forty times for zero with a quote
big kitchen knife quote eight long one. Obviously, she died
from bleeding out. So explain to me if she was
not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured.
(34:46):
As she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest, so it's
going to.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
Take her a few minutes to bleed out from the
stab wounds. So each stab wound that he is able
to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting
of the skin and the sing of the organs with
the knife, and then the fact that she's being stabbed
in the chest and could collapse lungs making it difficult
for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood
up and then swallowing the blood, so she's getting blood
(35:13):
in her mouth and hailing the blood, gagging while she's
being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she
finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted forty stab wounds,
he could probably deliver those in that entire timeframe that
it takes her to bleed out.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took
pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to
Deborah's friend and coworker who called nine one one. Meyer
also texted his wife's family and friends, saying I killed
Debbie because she's a cheating, lying bitch. Meyer says wife
just didn't give a shit about the Paris themed date
he planned.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
And Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after
a Balentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the
father of three?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Let me understand what I'm hearing that he actually tells
police that.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
He murdered his wife because she quote just didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Give it about his Paris theme dinner, and Christina Ohio
joining a Salem news channel. He wrote the relatives, sent
her relatives a picture of her bludgeoned, stamped body and
said I killed Debbie because.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
She is a cheating line. Is that right?
Speaker 6 (36:28):
Yes, that is correct.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
He did that.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
He sent it to the coworker saying it's your fault.
And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police,
all of it just revealed in the abba.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
David, he was almost trying.
Speaker 6 (36:39):
To get them on his side, like explaining, you understand right,
she did this to me. This was the hardest I've
ever tried, he said, And if the hardest you've ever
tried is buying address taking your wife out to dinner,
it's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into
the relationship over the last four years.
Speaker 7 (36:54):
But he was.
Speaker 6 (36:55):
Literally explaining to the cops like they were boys, like
they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't
you understand she did this to me? She didn't care.
I worked so hard on the celebration and she just
didn't care.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, But I understood he
did not take her out to dinner that they ordered
delivery Japanese delivery.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, according to the what I read in the AffA David,
it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in.
It was that he got her a dinner from their
favorite Japanese steakhouse.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
To go with their Paris theme night. Okay, uh, Doctor
Bethany Marshall, help me out here. I killed Debbie because
she is a cheating line.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
He might as well fill that in with I killed
Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas. There's always a
reason why the woman deserves to be murdered. Have you
noticed that talks to agree with him? She's such a
hoe she's a liar, she's a cheater. She goes on
and on, she did this, she did that, I had.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
To kill her. Well, they're going to agree, and even
Father of the Year, you know, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Probably what was happening leading up to this too, was
that he was calling coworkers and family members and trying
to recruit everybody to be on his side. Because this
just spills over when he starts to talk to the police.
He probably feels very beleaguered by her, and it's very
common for these types of men to invest very little
into the relationship but expect everything back from the house
(38:24):
from the spouse. So he just orders up a steak dinner.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
He doesn't cook.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Perhaps he doesn't even take her to the restaurant, buys
her probably a horror stress, makes her dance to the music.
But he expects all these accolades and all this praise
from her. So it's almost like when you ask your
child to set the table for dinner and they just
do something really small like set a plate down, they
think they deserve so much a praise because that's where
(38:52):
they are developmentally. Well, these domestic abusers are caught developmentally
at that same phase of life. Where they just invest
the tiniest, teensiest little bit and when they don't get
all the praise they want, all help breaks lose.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
To Greg Morse, believe it or not, I'm giving you
the final argument.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Hit me, well, it is.
Speaker 8 (39:13):
This is not all of these factors and inferences you're
making to show premeditation. He's controlling. He's a domestic abuser.
So let's suppose there is no murder and we hear
this guy does this. It's just a story. A Paris
theme night. What a romantic thing he tried to bring
his wife Paris. How nice. So my point is he's
not acting like someone who planned this. If he was
(39:36):
aggressive in an abuser the whole night, when she leaves
for twenty minutes, why does she come back? You would
have seen signs of that. My point is, insanity can
come up below the surface and it can be there.
And having the appointment in three days lends me to
believe that this was not planned. This was something unless
you believe he planned the appointment to show that he
(39:56):
really loved his wife and was trying and tried to
set up an insanity the defense. But it's a horrible outcome.
It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong,
it is very challenging. But I think mental illness is
a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've talked about
this on TV and cases I've had before, and this
is the outgrowth of it, and it does create This
(40:17):
guy was living in his own reality, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Shannon Henry joining me present, founder of SAS Surviving Assault
Standing Strong. If what he just said was true, they
would empty out every jail in the country because everybody
would say I had a mental illness. I was angry,
that's right.
Speaker 9 (40:33):
And she came back because she had kids there and
she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help
was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy.
And I do want to say she was a nurse
to Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what
was happening to her body when it was happening, and
he knew that she would understand that experience too. So
(40:56):
while he may not have physically hit her before this day,
and there may not be police reports, he abused her
for years by doing his best to break her down
with infidelity and isolation and insecurity and by the way,
you can be depressed. You can be a psychopath, you
can be a narcissist without being an abuser, and I
(41:17):
want you to know I would never you would never
be able to hire me, and if I did come,
I would be honored to clarify that the abused women
endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful,
just awful, And shame on you for trying to make
(41:38):
it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not.
He knew what he was doing from start to finish,
from the dress to the stabbing, and then he bragged
about it.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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