September 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Noah Presgrove's estate filed a wrongful death lawsuit in June naming Jack Newton, his father, Caleb Newton, and five others. So far, the only response came from Jack Newton and Caleb Newton. The other defendants in the wrongful death suit include Avery Jo Howard, Carter Combs, Johnnie Trout Wilcoxson Jr., Stevie Howard and Logan Jernigan. Avery, Carter and Logan allegedly threw the party Noah attended on Johnnie's property, in a home owned by Stevie, according to the suit. In the wrongful death suit, Jack Newton is alleged to have got alcohol for the party and his father, Caleb Newton, allowed them to use the vehicle that Noah rolled over. The UPDATE is the response filed by the attorney for Jack Newton (supposed to be Noah's best friend) and his father who claim Noah's death two years ago was “an unavoidable accident, casualty and misfortune" AND they blame Noah!!!!!!
Transcribe Highlights
00:00.42 Introduction
02:35.80 Noah Presgrove Horror Movie
08:12:51 Pedestrian vs Vehicle
10:20.99 Story of decapitation in car wreck
15:42.11 Injuries suffered by Noah
19:57.61 10 Broken ribs and more
25:16.27 Description of road rash
30:08.08 Skin torn to the bone
35:15.49 Were teeth knocked out or fractured
39:15.13 Was intoxicated
46:42.97 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body does. But Joseph's gotten more. There's no other feeling
in the world like being young and being with your friends.
And I'm talking about that group of friends that you
hang out with, that group of friends like you get
excited if you're going to see them, you're going to
(00:22):
spend a protracted period of time together. And look, I
got to confess partying, all right. And look, man, there's
nothing wrong with partying, particularly when you're young, because I
can tell you when you get old, you ain't gonna
do it. You're gonna be in bed by eight.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
But there was a.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Young man who did go and hang out with friends
to enjoy I don't know, a long weekend over a
labor day. He went into it, probably full of excitement,
enthusiastic about seeing his buddies, fasten a bottle around, riding
(01:05):
on atv out in the country where the only illumination
is starlight. The only problem is is at the end
of that weekend, after all the partying had been done,
he had wound up dead on the side of a
road with more trauma than anyone can possibly imagine. I'm
(01:32):
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Brother Dave, we have got an update. We've got an
update today relatively to Yeah it is No Press Grove.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I didn't look at you know, it's one of these
things that kind of you know, we cover these cases
and I'd probably say that other people have the same
and this is God, this is going to sound so bad,
and I mean no disrespect, but such a volume of
data comes into you and I on a regular basis,
(02:11):
these cases that otherwise would just pound you in the
face like a sledgehammer because other stuff trumps that data
along the way. These cases are forgotten and day. No
Press Grove's case is the stuff of horror movies. I mean,
it is an absolute terror show.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It is.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
It's every parent's worst nightmare for your young adult. You know,
it's one of those things when our kids are young,
before they start driving, we worry about them, their friends,
who they're playing with, who they're hanging out with. Once
they start driving, though, it becomes a different kind of fear,
a different kind of concern that you have for your
children when they're out. After they graduate school from high school,
(02:57):
there's another level. It's a different kind of worry now
because you know they're going to do things that young adults.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Do you mentioned partying? Look, I did it.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I encouraged my children when they became young adults to
be wise. I think with my kids is I've already
done it. You guys don't have to. I'll tell you what.
The end result of all of it is. You end
up in handcuffs and jail wondering where you know, where
is my shirt?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And you know, well, you.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Know, Dave.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
The problem is is that most kids don't believe us,
and they're going to want their own empirical proof of this.
The speculation. You know, they see the speculation. They don't
see it because none of them ever imagine us as
young and partying. All right, So they have to go
out and you sit there and you're shaking your heads
(03:46):
like I wouldn't do that if I was you. I've
already told you. But you know, it's part of the
carelessness of youth. I think a lot of that. There's
growth that comes out of it. I think there's also
a lesson to be learned about what to do and
what not to do. Any toms when you experience that.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
In the noahpress Grove story, yeah, we actually have both
what to do and what not to do. And the
reason we're doing this is because there has been some movement.
You know, back in June, a lawsuit was filed by
the family of Noah press Grove. It was filed without
a lot of fanfare, mainly because you mentioned it right
at the beginning. We're hit with so many different stories.
(04:23):
Unless there's something that really moves that rock up the hill,
it's not going to gain the attraction it needs. But
after it was filed, you and I did an update,
and now we've got that. We actually have an update
to go along with that lawsuit. But before we do that, Joe,
you and I took a really good look at the injuries.
I actually, no, you took a really good look at them.
(04:44):
I was so shocked at what we found out when
this story came to us from one of y'all, a
listener of the show who actually reached out and said, hey,
have you guys covered this yet, And we're like, no,
let me find out more.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And yeah, that's oh my goodness. I just remembered that
that did come to us this way.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
And the thing is it goes back to again, out
of one hundred stories that deserve coverage, to get it
and there is no rhyme or reason to it.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
There really isn't.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And this is one of those stories that I think
the shock value of the what this young man had
to have endured is not easily explained as saying he
was walking down the road and it was a hit
and run, because that's the explanation we've heard of a
possible way that he could have ended up dead in
(05:37):
this particular way.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
But Joe.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I looked at this list of injuries, and there are
certain things that happened to Noah press Grove and his
body that even after looking down this list and reading
reports and everything else, I still cannot, for the life
of me, think of any way this could happen other
then what appears to me a gang beating, teaching somebody
(06:06):
a lesson.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, and you know this list, Okay, let me, let
me let me kind of add a caveat here with
with motor vehicle, and that's what has been alleged, okay,
along that it was a motor vehicle related event, perhaps
(06:29):
struck by a vehicle. We know that they're in the
story woven throughout. There is an ATV, an all train
all terrain vehicle that has been wrecked okay, But I
think the main thing that was put forward is that.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You've got a.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Young man that's found deceased adjacent are on the roadway. Uh,
and he has got a laundry list of injuries that
you would think might be related to a motor vehicle
accent day. But the problem is is that the motor
(07:07):
vehicle accident that he would have been involved in to
generate this kind of trauma, I think would have been
he would be seated in the cabin of a car
and pushed off a three story building and impacted nose
dived into the and even that, you're still not going
to get some of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Really, Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I've just tried to look at it from Okay, if
you were hit by a car, he knows certain things
that happen.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, because it does happen. People do get hit by
a car, Oh.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Very rarely do you get hit and then rolled under
hitting and going under all four tires.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Usually you bounce off a little bit, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well you do, but we do.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But there's a category for what's referred to as rollover injuries.
And you know, the circumstances. Actually, dave have to be
just right for that to happen. First Off, many times
with a okay, let's just say we have a pedestri
it's called pedestrian versus vehicle. Let's just say we do
have a pedestrian and you've got a vehicle operator. There's
(08:16):
so many things that come into play. First off, the
height of the vehicle, the total wheelbase of the vehicle,
how you know kind of wide the vehicle is from
tire to tire, the speed, reaction time on the part
of the driver. I guess you could also factor in
there an awareness or lack of awareness on the part
(08:36):
of maybe the victim. Many times, if you have a
braking event where you've got a pedestrian that's in the roadway,
you'll see a response on the part of a driver
that has awareness that when they press on the brakes.
(08:58):
First off, you've got deceleration, but also the nose of
the vehicle will slightly drop down. Okay, and when that
nose of the vehicle drops down, if it strikes someone
in the legs or in the thigh the hip, it
can deflect them. I've had these cases where people go
(09:23):
over the top of the car into the windshield. Actually, Dave,
I actually had a case one time where a guy
came through a windshield and was decapitated and the head
wound up in the seat of the vehicle adjacent to
the operator of the vehicle. And the guy that this
happened to that was I just had this memory. This
(09:44):
was actually on Ien down in New Orleans. The guy
that was driving the vehicle, he was headed to the
New Orleans Airport, and he was Cabby, and he didn't
speak very good, very good English. He came, the guy
came through his windshield, decapitated him, and the guy's head,
if I remember correctly, either wound up in the Cabby's
(10:05):
lap or in the seat adjacent to him in the
torso was still in the vehicle kind of hanging off
to the side when we got there. It was absolutely horrific.
But it's almost unpredictable as to what's going to happen
with a body when they're struck by a vehicle. But
(10:25):
with Noah's Noah's injuries, Dave there, I was looking at
the list. By the way, y'all, Dave does this incredible
job of backing me up, and I truly need a
lot of backing up the list, Dave, I did not remember.
I did not remember how extensive and exhaustive this list
(10:51):
of insults were to Noah's body until they were represented
to me again.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Oh, you had time, because we've actually had time now
that we heard a number of different stories, and some
of them have kind of washed whitewashed it a little bit,
you know, as to what may have happened to know
Ah Press Grove. But when you get right down to it,
this is what happened to his body. This is this
is when he was found. Okay, all of this was
done when he was found just before six am after
(11:23):
a weekend of partying with friends. All Right, he has
a conversation argument three point fifteen two hours later, two
and a half hours later.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
This is the condition of his body.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Joe found on the road about a mile and a half,
two miles from the house where they've been partying.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, and this is I'm not saying that you can
see the end of the world from the locale, but
it's it's out. You got to pump in sunshine out here.
I mean, it's terrible. Oklahoma's case. Folks aren't aware of it.
It's not far away as crow flies actually from from
(12:07):
the Dallas area. And you know it's all relative in
Texas and Oklahoma because things are so big out there.
But it literally sits right on the Oklahoma Oklahoma Texas border,
and it's it's kind of north west of Dallas. And
let's face it, I mean it's a it's an agricultural area.
(12:30):
You know, you're going to have a lot of farmers
around there and that sort of thing. You're gonna have
a lot of a lot of wide open spaces for kids,
particularly you know, young teenagers, I mean older teenagers and
young adults that can rip and roaring out there and
they can have all the fun they want. But I've
got to tell you, when I dropped this list on
(12:51):
you guys, I don't know, but I predict, just like me,
you're gonna be shocked. They've these these injuries that that
(13:17):
no Press Grove sustained are not merely limited to his head.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
We've got injuries.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That that range from literally the soles of his feet
to the top of his head. Let that sink in
just for a second, now, that's one of the reasons
I was previously talking about, and just indulge me for
just a second. But when people are struck by a
motor vehicle, let's just say pedestrian struck by a motor
(13:52):
vehicle and they're upright, we look for things called bumper
marks on the body, and that means that's the point
of impact, if you're struck in the leg or the hip,
and it generally most of the time it's very definitive
you'll see a contusion because obviously when when they're alive,
(14:12):
you're going to brewse right, and then the body is
pitched over to one side or the body is rolled
over and the vehicle run continues on down the road. Dave,
in a case like this, and when we consider the
extent the extent of the injuries, I would not be
as inclined to believe that this is a standard rollover.
(14:33):
I'm not saying he wasn't rolled over. I guess the
question I would have to ask is how many damn
times was he rolled over? All right, it's not like
a it's not like you're going to get this in
one fail swoop, because Dave, we've got we've got ribs,
we've got cervicle, vertebra, we've got skull, we've got tissue
(15:00):
being peeled away with his young men. And if you'll
indulge me, I'll I'll go ahead and run this down
if you know, and we can. I just want everyone
to kind of understand, you know what we're what we're
talking about, you know, when when his remains were finally
finally come across and here we go, we've got so
(15:20):
Noah had ten broken ribs, He's got a fractured skull,
next spine fractures, internal bleeding. So I mentioned the damaged skull.
He's got internally, he's got brain brain hemorrhage. And Dave,
(15:44):
there's something that's kind of kind of interesting here. When
they did the examination and they kind of dissected out,
you know, through his brain and down his spinal cavity,
they actually found air and inside of these areas, which
is something Well, it tells me that these bones were
fractured so extensively that they they were open, they were
(16:08):
open to the environment. Do you reil us how hard
it is to crack open? I mean, skulls are hard
to crack open. Do you realize how difficult it is
to crack open a cervical vertebra and not just one?
Hang on, let me refer back to my notes, I
feel like I'm a trial. Now We've got C one,
(16:31):
which is actually referred to as your atlas if you'll,
if you'll imagine the image of the Titan. I think
he was a Titan, the Greek Titan Atlas holding up
the earth on his shoulders. That's where the term C
one or the atlas vertebra comes from. It drops down
(16:52):
to C two, C three is apparently C three.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
C four.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And C five are not damaged. But then it jumps
to C six and seven. So you've got this this
area in his neck which is the most proximal to
the base of the skull C one and C two,
and then you're going to jump over three other vertebral
bodies and landing on six, C six and C seven,
(17:24):
and those are all fractured. So that almost maybe it
maybe it doesn't, but that almost smacks of two separate impacts, okay,
just simply based on the cerebral on the curfable vertebra.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Rather.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The other thing too, that I remember now making note
of is that the C one not only is it fractured,
David C one was displaced, which means it's kind of
if you think about the spine if you're just if
you were looking at a skeleton running from north to south. Okay,
in the vertical plane at the very top. You know,
(18:09):
the the reason people go to go to chiropractice many
times is because the spinal alignment and all that sort
of thing. Well, there's a particular spinal alignment in the
vertical plane and Dave, the very top, the very top
vertebra again atlas that supports the skull is knocked over
to one side. How does that even happen?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Dave?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
We you know when when people see that, when it
has been seen and documented over the years. Judicial hangings,
Oh wow, yeah, judicial hangings where you get that kind
of displacement like that, and you get the fracturing, you know,
the old fracturing at the neck. By the way, we're
still going to do an episode on judicial hangings at
(18:52):
some point in time that I've talked about doing for
a long time.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I've tried to look at these injuries and think, Okay,
how could any one of these happen? And realize that
when you start thinking about again geography, where was he found?
It was found just off of a road early morning
before six am. And we know that his clothes. By
(19:16):
the way, haven't mentioned this yet, Noah press Grove with
all these injuries, Joseph Scott Morgan was found naked. His
clothes were sitting by him folded. Now what you know,
what is he flying through the air. The clothes are
coming off before the next tire rolls back over his
head to peel some skin, and his shirt falls off
(19:40):
and it folds itself like a Genie in the night
pants to and then I guess when he's back up
in the air, he decides to brush his teeth.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
But oh, they're all knocked out. We didn't get to
that yet.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
But let's get right to the rest of the injuries,
because again you're talking about pre six am side of
the road country rode code. He's got these injuries ten
broken ribs, serious gold neck and spine fractures, internal bleeding,
brain and organ damage, cuts and grazes all over his body.
And you pointed out he had about twenty mili liters
(20:14):
of blood pulled inside his head from a brain bleed.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
How much is said, Joe, oh.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Twenty MILLI leaders, let's see if I could do the
math on that very carefully. It's more than should be
there okay, all right, And so there's an indwelling hemorrhage
in there. So you've got this impact that has affected
these little vessels, which there are many of within the brain.
And we've talked about this on bodybacks before, Dave that
(20:44):
the brain and probably secondarily to that. I know we'll
probably get gigged on this by one of our friends,
but the brain and the liver are two of the
most vascular organs in the body, probably the brain hands down,
but liver is very vascular as well. That's why if
you have liver damage traumatic, you know, you got to
(21:07):
get you have to get that repaired. You're going to
bleed out into your gut brain same way. But the
problem is with the brain is that not only are
you experiencing this extensive hemorrhage and this pressure that's building
up inside of there. It's not just the blood loss,
it's also the pressure within the cranial vault. It's kind
(21:29):
of squeezing down on the brain. That's why there has
to be surgical intervention. But David, I got to tell you, brother,
I think you could have had an entire staff of
neurosurgeons standing there adjacent to that roadway. He wouldn't have
had two hoots and hell's chance of surviving this because
these injuries are so over the top with this kid.
(21:53):
And again, I got to tell you, this smacks to
me of not just a single instant, you know, because
of this the extent of the injuries we've got. And
just let me just bear with me, because he's got
he's got road rash, which most of the time you're
going to get road rash injuries from you can be
(22:17):
rolled over and just imagine a barrel rolling down the road.
That's what happens with your body, all right, if you're
caught beneath the undercarriage of the car car rolls over you.
And there are very specific injuries you look for with
that that translate from the undercarriage of the car also
the tires of the car onto the body. And then
you've got the underlying road surface or if you have
(22:42):
been dragged by a car as well. So you have
to try to understand the orientation of these of this
road rash. Is it like linear, you know, like does
the road rash A way to interpret this, Okay, if
you're looking at a all over type of event, if
(23:04):
the body is log rolling down the road. That means
like rolling like a log underneath a car. You're going
to have these kind of parallel markings on the body.
You'll have them on the upper body and lower body, however,
and those will translate into road rash. If you have
someone who is dragged behind a car, they're going to
(23:26):
be very linear and they'll be insane. Plane. Let's just
say someone is being drugged by the bumper of a vehicle.
You might have these abrasions and dave, they're going to
look strided. Shrided means like streaked, and they'll generally be
about as wide as your hand, all right, because it's
(23:46):
a point of contact, and you'll have multiple surfaces and
the body is being drug down the road, and they're
all gonna be linear and kind of parallel to one another.
So when you're thinking about orientation of the body to
the vehicle and to the road surface, what pattern were
these in Because we haven't necessarily heard that yet, you know,
(24:09):
we do know that road rash exists or what the
forensic pathologist is talking about. And by the way, the
State Medical Examiner's Office in Oklahoma, it's one of the
finest in the country. First Off, it's a state Medical
Examiner's office. It's a standalone, separate entity from any law
(24:30):
enforcement agency. It's not like governed by the state police
or anything. It's a standalone agency. And they're renowned. They're
renowned for their work and the quality of work that
they do.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So I have no doubt.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He's got this abrasion, Dave. That's on multiple surfaces. So
he's got road rash on his upper back. He's got
abrasions and grazes on his left shoulder, left arm, left
side of the tors and both of his butt. Okay,
so he's kind of twisting and turning.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Again.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We don't know if it's in necessarily the horizontal plane
or the vertical plane that these things are running relative
to the torso itself, and that's just that's the external vision.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
That you have. He's also got healed.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Abrasions that they found on and scabs on his nose,
both of his hands, his knuckles, left foot, and heel.
He's got an ulcerated healing or ulcer on his right thigh.
All of these, according to the Medical Examiner, these other injuries,
(25:45):
which is fascinating to me, predate the night of this event, Dave,
and they referred to as healed abrasions and scabs on
his nose and David, you know what, it's not just
that they're on his on his nose, they're on both
hands as well, and the knuckles. Dave, when I see abrasions,
(26:09):
when I hear about abrasions on hands and knuckles, you
know what, I think, you know, I think that there's
physical altercation involved. But yet these things are healing. I
think the one thing to try to understand is at.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
What level of resolve are these injuries?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Is this something that because you could, I guess over
a thirty six hour period, you'll have enough of a change.
And I think that we can all relate to this.
I mean we all can. You and I both can.
If we scrape our hand. Let's say that right now,
you and I scraped our hand. Thirty six to forty
eight hours from now, that insult is going to look
(26:49):
completely different than it does right now. Yeah, you would
have a scab, you would have some a bit of
resolving that's going on with the injury. Certainly, you know,
if you had a contusion there, the contusion is not
going to be the same color as it was forty
eight hours earlier. Thirty six hours earlier, So I think
that within this timeframe, I mean, one of the questions
(27:12):
is what was going on, what had he been involved in?
We do know this that those injuries were still there.
They hadn't gone anywhere, so they're not like ancient ancient injuries.
I think that we can probably speculate on that a bit.
With with these injuries though, you're kind of over there's
(27:37):
an overlay of of the of the fresh injuries and
these old injuries. The problem is, like many times with
these with these issues, there's you know, sequencing that goes on.
What was kind of fascinating about all this. You've got
(27:59):
this this guy that does Stuart Fisher, who's an internist,
and he had given he's a physician, he's like an
internal uh internal medicine guy that has, according to the
Daily Mail, had worked you know extensively in emergency you know, medicine.
They asked him to review the report, and the physician
(28:23):
had actually stated that this this kid has suffered so
many catastrophic injuries, Dave, that any number of these insults
could have killed him just like a stand alone UH.
I think probably the most significant one that the that
(28:43):
the uh that the doctor you know, pointed out was
the extensive, uh, the extensive skull fraction. As a matter
of fact, their you know, their comments relative to this,
and this comes from the police investigators that they described
as head Dave is being caved in. Now, how can
(29:04):
you have a cave in? And that would be what's
referred to as a depressed skull fracture where you have
to have energy transfer from an object to that underlying surface,
the external table of the skull, so that that direct
energy is coming from I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
A tire.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Or a foot, or an object like a bat or
a pipe. And you know, going back to the physition,
he said, you know, Dave, there's five, maybe up to
ten life threatening injuries just in stand alone by itself.
(29:46):
And that's again you have to ask yourself this question
a reasonable question here, could know Press Grove have sustained
all of the totality of these injuries simply being struck
by a motor vehicle with a single strike. I just
I have a real hard time swallowing.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Joe, what about.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
What about the clumps of hair? What about the skin
on the left side of his scalp that was torn
to the bone. I mean, I know there are thinner
parts of skin and things like that, But when you
start talking about skin being torn to the bone, that's
(30:32):
just animalistic behavior to me. It's something that unless you're
again now back to unless you are hit by something mechanical,
if another human being did this, how enraged are you
that you can cause hair to be pulled out, ripping
skin to the skull. A clump of hair, A clump
(30:54):
of hair was observed on his right butt cheek without
blood or tissue on it. Joe, have you ever seen
a car truck hit somebody and I guess the truck
fairy goes back and finds some hair that's undamaged and
laid on the person like as a wreath.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, yeah, it all depends.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Well again we're back to folded clothes, right right. How
how do you get head hair that is deposited on
the buttock? Well, it's a real dynamic situation. I'll give
you that if it is a rollover. But you know,
when you couple that also with what was that you
had mentioned Off of the aspect of the face, we
(31:34):
had skin that was feeled back, David, this is a
phenomenon that's known as degloving. Wow, degloving yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Do gloving for everything we do.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well you give a yeah, you really do because in
some things are so and look, not all of it
comes directly from forensics because you have, you know, people
in standard medical practice, you know, deal with individuals that
have their skin has been degloved. You know, it does,
it does happen. It's horrible, it's horrible, and you know
(32:06):
people wind up having skin grafts and all those sorts
of things. But yeah, degloving for us, you know, it
has a couple of connotations. First off, you can have
traumatic degloving and uh you get degloving with skin in
regards to decomposition, you know, like the hands de glove
we you know, and the more will actually take the
(32:28):
dermal level of the skin and peel it off the
hands of a off of a decomposing body. Put a
latex glove over your own hand and insert your hand
into the skin, the degloved skin of the deceased, and
we can roll fingerprints that way. I've done that many times.
It's kind of a creepy thing to do. I know, uh,
(32:49):
I know what you're thinking right now, No kidding, just got.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Actually think if it doesn't fit, you must have quite.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Well yeah, yeah, and that's again that's an other problem
because skin is so stretched. But I'm digressing. We could
do an entire episode on things that we have to
do about decomposing bodies, like.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
From the hair and the skin. What about the teeth, Joe?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Okay, The teeth are fascinating to me because you've got
this array of teeth that are lying about on the
roadway well in order. The reason there is a term
that people say they got their teeth knocked out is
because it's a big deal day you're aize how hard
(33:35):
it is to unroot a tooth traumatically, and that's a
single tooth, all right. I think one of the big
questions I have and is was there was there any
kind of maxillary which means your maxilla is essentially the
(33:58):
roof of your mouth. Just give me a little rope here,
but it's it's the roof of the mouth. So your
maxillary teeth, the upper teeth are seated in there. Then
you have the mangellary teeth and those are indemandible, which
is your jaw, all right, and they're deeply rooted. You know,
I think that most people can identify with this. You
know what your teeth are like you ever had tooth pulled.
(34:20):
We're not just talking about one or two teeth. We're
talking about multiple teeth that are scattered around on the
surface of the roadway. Well, most of time it's going
to inquire. That's going to require a very forceful impact.
I want to know what the underlying diagnosis were was
for the bony structure supporting the area. Was there extensive
jaw fracturing or maxillary fracturing, because we know that his
(34:41):
skull was fractured. Say what do they say earlier his
skull was caved in, Well, the upper skull if you're
talking about say the right or the left paridal area,
which is that area that's if you'll find your temple
and kind of go above into the rear, that's the
parietal area, a sprietal bone right there, and then you
have occipital bones in the back. They're kind of non
(35:04):
specific about that. I'd like to know what specifically what
the teeth are, and I'm talking about anatomical orientation.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Uh, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
What what was left where the teeth Okay, where the
teeth actually knocked out of his head or Dave, where
the teeth actually fractured and the root was still in
place in the in the in the socket of the
of the teeth. Totally two different things here. Okay, there's
(35:39):
there's so much trauma in in Noah's case, Dave, this
this autopsy alone, just let me kind of run this
down to you. The autopsy alone. When they got into
this thing, I would imagine it took them a couple
of hours, and you know what, the line share of
(36:00):
their time would have been spent doing here, doing the
external exam, because there's so much externally relative to his body.
Before you ever break out the cold steel, as we say,
and open his remains up, it would be a grand
(36:21):
undertaking in order to examine him and try to assess
everything measured appropriately. And I hadn't even talked about what
had happened in his chest cavity because we've got a
closed head injury, or I guess you could say it's
kind of open if they're talking about a depressed skull fracture.
But Dave, for Noah, both of his lungs were punctured,
(36:45):
so that means that puncturing of lungs comes about as
a result of fractured ribs. Will refer to it many
times as a flail chess where you've got multiple ribs
on both sides and you get what's referred to as
like a floating cast. A lot of blood associated with this.
As a matter of fact, I think that they recovered
(37:09):
roughly about three point two pints of blood. It's about
fifteen hundred millimeters of blood. He's got a contusion to
his heart, his spleen, and his stomach. So this kid
has just been obliterated, pounded, and it's not just external,
(37:36):
it's what has happened to him internally. There were at
the scene. The big thing about it is is that
with all of these injuries day, with the one thing
that really really catches your eye other than if you
didn't need anything else, Dave, there's no pools of blood.
(37:59):
There's nools of blood out there. And how do you
generate all of these injuries and you don't have.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Like a large.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Puddling of blood that's immediately adjacent to the body or
the body.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Is overlying it? Does?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It just doesn't. It doesn't make sense that. Look, I'm
I'm not going to sit here and say that you know, Noah,
(38:38):
some innocent little lamb that was you know, uh, just
brought in that he hadn't been participating in partying and
all this sort of thing, But it still doesn't excuse
the idea of how much trauma he has had. I'll
tell you this for folks that are not aware. His
blood alcohol is zero point one four, and that's that
(39:03):
exceeds the legal limit, okay, for intoxication, but that means
to operate a vehicle. Now he's under age. He's underage drinking.
So at point one four, you will be slurring your words,
You're going to have your motor activity and response time
is going to be slowed down significantly. You know, legal drinking,
(39:27):
the legal limit for drinking or being drunk, according to
state law pretty much around the country, it's going to
vary is generally point zero eight. His is point one four.
So he's he's got you know, he's got a significant
amount of alcohol on board. It's not twice the amount
(39:50):
quite yet of legal limit, but it's it's up there.
So he would have been impaired. But again, you know
somebody that's impaired, Dave is is the easily pounced upon
by somebody.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Well, let me give you the other part of this
shoe that I really wanted to make sure we understand
because we've covered most we didn't even cover all of
his injuries. You have friends, just so you know what
you heard is a partial list. There's still more. But
when he was found in that state, with all those injuries,
he was naked. He wore only mismatched shoes. One was
(40:25):
in n Adidas and the other was a Hey dude's.
There was debris and grass stuck in the laces of
each and more of them. On the left shoe, a
silver plated chain necklace from Noah's grandmother was scattered in pieces.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Not far away from a remnants of a tooth, not
a whole tooth, remnants of.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
A tooth, a fracture tooth.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yes, his undamaged shores. We're seeing about thirty yards away. Jack,
this goes back several months ago. Was Noah's best friend
said that the shorts were actually borrowed. This goes back
to that rollover incident with the vehicle. Yeah, they were dirty,
(41:13):
They just grab clothes. You know, there were people spending
the night and staying they were grabbing that. That does
not surprise me nearly as much, you know as a
lot of the things that have happened. You know, the clothing.
What bothers me about the clothing is that he was
found naked with all those injuries, and his clothing was
not on him near him torn. I mean it's you know,
(41:34):
does that make sense, Joe. That really bothers me that
he's left in a state of destruction and you're not
finding ripped clothes, torning clothes, bloody clothes.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
And I think this goes to an element. I think
in legal terms, it's referred to as due care. You know,
we were Nancy recently and she was talking about that
public doesn't have an obligation necessarily to tend to somebody
that's not directly in uh you know, like if you're
a caregiver, if you're a parent, that sort of thing,
(42:08):
you do have a legal obligation you know, to take
care of you know, infirmed people and children and all
that sort of thing. But it would seem to me,
and there have been lawsuits that have been brought in
regards to this sort of thing when somebody comes to
a domicile and they're applied with alcohol and this is
I mean, bars have gotten sued over this. I know,
(42:30):
you know that day where people will get get hammered
you know, at a local bar, and the the you know,
the bar didn't use due care and allowed the individual
to leave, and they wind up either getting killed or
killing somebody, that sort of thing. So how do you
how do you allow someone to leave your domicile or
(42:52):
in your and you know that they're they're drunk, and
they're they're naked, and they're wearing mismatched shoes. It's such
a bizarre set of circumstances. And then finally, you know,
a little while later, he's found he's found dead a
distance from the house, out on the road, Dave.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
And with conflicting stories from those who are at the party. Yeah,
that's the biggest issue. You got friends from Look, man,
you guys all grow up together. Yes, you were having
a party. Sett all that to the side, where kles,
we got a dead guy? What happened? We can't get
the same story from everybody the minute somebody's lying, somebody's lying,
you know.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
And if you can't get if you've.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Got five people telling five different stories, they could all
be talking about from their perspective of what they saw,
but when you put it all together, they all make
sense that isn't happening here. So that's what let him
know his family finally, after not getting anywhere with any
you know, by the way, I want to be very
the police have done the best job they can at
(43:56):
this point. They've involved others, you know, they've done their investigation.
But at a certain point in time, you know, you
you really have to know what happened, and they have
yet to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So no, and I don't know, I don't know that
they have enough enough probable cause to move forward from
a legal standpoint in order to intensify the investigation. They
have said that they're not investigating this as a hom side.
That was one. But I got to tell you, just
(44:28):
because you say you're not, they leave them.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I've been down this road before.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Just because they say they're not doesn't mean I'm doing
air quotes right here. Doesn't mean that new information might develop. Yeah, okay,
and not stupid. No, they're not and they're not going
to show their hand. But they've just kind of this
is really your strong suit here, just kind of lay
out this lawsuit because it's well, they.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
File a wrongful death lawsuit. They filed it and they
name names the family. This is the family of Noah
Press Grove. And by the way, when you file a
civil lawsuit, it's always monetary, right, But in this case,
they're not asking for enough money, like they're asking for
seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Oh yeah, hey, I got it.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
I'm glad you said this, because when I saw it,
I was thinking, yeah, if this was my kid, you know,
there's going to be a one at minimum with six
digits after that. And I saw seventy five. Boy, the
smacks of just trying to elicit information, and to me
it does at least. Yeah, I want to know. I
got to tell you this is the one thing about it.
(45:36):
I know that that this is putting the onus on
Noah here attorney. As we say, attorneys are going to attorney,
that's what they do. But the fact that the Press
Groves filed this lawsuit, Dave, I tell you what they're
what we're staring down the barrel of here. We're going
to be getting some depositions and they will be under
(45:59):
a they will be so ordered by the court and
somebody is going to have to go into a big
oak paneled office somewhere with lots of fancy books in
a room. They're going to sit at a big table,
and there's going to be a court reporter sitting right there.
There's gonna be a microphone in front of them, and
the plaintiff will ask questions, and if they have an attorney,
(46:22):
their attorney will try to deflect or reframe the thing,
and there will be questions ask but the big question
is will we actually get any answers. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is body Backs
Body does. But Joseph's gotten more. There's no other feeling
in the world like being young and being with your friends.
And I'm talking about that group of friends that you
hang out with, that group of friends like you get
excited if you're going to see them, you're going to
(00:22):
spend a protracted period of time together. And look, I
got to confess partying, all right. And look, man, there's
nothing wrong with partying, particularly when you're young, because I
can tell you when you get old, you ain't gonna
do it. You're gonna be in bed by eight.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
But there was a.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Young man who did go and hang out with friends
to enjoy I don't know, a long weekend over a
labor day. He went into it, probably full of excitement,
enthusiastic about seeing his buddies, fasten a bottle around, riding
(01:05):
on atv out in the country where the only illumination
is starlight. The only problem is is at the end
of that weekend, after all the partying had been done,
he had wound up dead on the side of a
road with more trauma than anyone can possibly imagine. I'm
(01:32):
Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Brother Dave, we have got an update. We've got an
update today relatively to Yeah it is No Press Grove.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I didn't look at you know, it's one of these
things that kind of you know, we cover these cases
and I'd probably say that other people have the same
and this is God, this is going to sound so bad,
and I mean no disrespect, but such a volume of
data comes into you and I on a regular basis,
(02:11):
these cases that otherwise would just pound you in the
face like a sledgehammer because other stuff trumps that data
along the way. These cases are forgotten and day. No
Press Grove's case is the stuff of horror movies. I mean,
it is an absolute terror show.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
It is.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
It's every parent's worst nightmare for your young adult. You know,
it's one of those things when our kids are young,
before they start driving, we worry about them, their friends,
who they're playing with, who they're hanging out with. Once
they start driving, though, it becomes a different kind of fear,
a different kind of concern that you have for your
children when they're out. After they graduate school from high school,
(02:57):
there's another level. It's a different kind of worry now
because you know they're going to do things that young adults.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Do you mentioned partying? Look, I did it.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
I encouraged my children when they became young adults to
be wise. I think with my kids is I've already
done it. You guys don't have to. I'll tell you what.
The end result of all of it is. You end
up in handcuffs and jail wondering where you know, where
is my shirt?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
And you know, well, you.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Know, Dave.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
The problem is is that most kids don't believe us,
and they're going to want their own empirical proof of this.
The speculation. You know, they see the speculation. They don't
see it because none of them ever imagine us as
young and partying. All right, So they have to go
out and you sit there and you're shaking your heads
(03:46):
like I wouldn't do that if I was you. I've
already told you. But you know, it's part of the
carelessness of youth. I think a lot of that. There's
growth that comes out of it. I think there's also
a lesson to be learned about what to do and
what not to do. Any toms when you experience that.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
In the noahpress Grove story, yeah, we actually have both
what to do and what not to do. And the
reason we're doing this is because there has been some movement.
You know, back in June, a lawsuit was filed by
the family of Noah press Grove. It was filed without
a lot of fanfare, mainly because you mentioned it right
at the beginning. We're hit with so many different stories.
(04:23):
Unless there's something that really moves that rock up the hill,
it's not going to gain the attraction it needs. But
after it was filed, you and I did an update,
and now we've got that. We actually have an update
to go along with that lawsuit. But before we do that, Joe,
you and I took a really good look at the injuries.
I actually, no, you took a really good look at them.
(04:44):
I was so shocked at what we found out when
this story came to us from one of y'all, a
listener of the show who actually reached out and said, hey,
have you guys covered this yet, And we're like, no,
let me find out more.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And yeah, that's oh my goodness. I just remembered that
that did come to us this way.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
And the thing is it goes back to again, out
of one hundred stories that deserve coverage, to get it
and there is no rhyme or reason to it.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
There really isn't.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And this is one of those stories that I think
the shock value of the what this young man had
to have endured is not easily explained as saying he
was walking down the road and it was a hit
and run, because that's the explanation we've heard of a
possible way that he could have ended up dead in
(05:37):
this particular way.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
But Joe.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I looked at this list of injuries, and there are
certain things that happened to Noah press Grove and his
body that even after looking down this list and reading
reports and everything else, I still cannot, for the life
of me, think of any way this could happen other
then what appears to me a gang beating, teaching somebody
(06:06):
a lesson.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, and you know this list, Okay, let me, let
me let me kind of add a caveat here with
with motor vehicle, and that's what has been alleged, okay,
along that it was a motor vehicle related event, perhaps
(06:29):
struck by a vehicle. We know that they're in the
story woven throughout. There is an ATV, an all train
all terrain vehicle that has been wrecked okay, But I
think the main thing that was put forward is that.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You've got a.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Young man that's found deceased adjacent are on the roadway. Uh,
and he has got a laundry list of injuries that
you would think might be related to a motor vehicle
accent day. But the problem is is that the motor
(07:07):
vehicle accident that he would have been involved in to
generate this kind of trauma, I think would have been
he would be seated in the cabin of a car
and pushed off a three story building and impacted nose
dived into the and even that, you're still not going
to get some of this stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Really, Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
I've just tried to look at it from Okay, if
you were hit by a car, he knows certain things
that happen.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, because it does happen. People do get hit by
a car, Oh.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Very rarely do you get hit and then rolled under
hitting and going under all four tires.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Usually you bounce off a little bit, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well you do, but we do.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But there's a category for what's referred to as rollover injuries.
And you know, the circumstances. Actually, dave have to be
just right for that to happen. First Off, many times
with a okay, let's just say we have a pedestri
it's called pedestrian versus vehicle. Let's just say we do
have a pedestrian and you've got a vehicle operator. There's
(08:16):
so many things that come into play. First off, the
height of the vehicle, the total wheelbase of the vehicle,
how you know kind of wide the vehicle is from
tire to tire, the speed, reaction time on the part
of the driver. I guess you could also factor in
there an awareness or lack of awareness on the part
(08:36):
of maybe the victim. Many times, if you have a
braking event where you've got a pedestrian that's in the roadway,
you'll see a response on the part of a driver
that has awareness that when they press on the brakes.
(08:58):
First off, you've got deceleration, but also the nose of
the vehicle will slightly drop down. Okay, and when that
nose of the vehicle drops down, if it strikes someone
in the legs or in the thigh the hip, it
can deflect them. I've had these cases where people go
(09:23):
over the top of the car into the windshield. Actually, Dave,
I actually had a case one time where a guy
came through a windshield and was decapitated and the head
wound up in the seat of the vehicle adjacent to
the operator of the vehicle. And the guy that this
happened to that was I just had this memory. This
(09:44):
was actually on Ien down in New Orleans. The guy
that was driving the vehicle, he was headed to the
New Orleans Airport, and he was Cabby, and he didn't
speak very good, very good English. He came, the guy
came through his windshield, decapitated him, and the guy's head,
if I remember correctly, either wound up in the Cabby's
(10:05):
lap or in the seat adjacent to him in the
torso was still in the vehicle kind of hanging off
to the side when we got there. It was absolutely horrific.
But it's almost unpredictable as to what's going to happen
with a body when they're struck by a vehicle. But
(10:25):
with Noah's Noah's injuries, Dave there, I was looking at
the list. By the way, y'all, Dave does this incredible
job of backing me up, and I truly need a
lot of backing up the list, Dave, I did not remember.
I did not remember how extensive and exhaustive this list
(10:51):
of insults were to Noah's body until they were represented
to me again.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Oh, you had time, because we've actually had time now
that we heard a number of different stories, and some
of them have kind of washed whitewashed it a little bit,
you know, as to what may have happened to know
Ah Press Grove. But when you get right down to it,
this is what happened to his body. This is this
is when he was found. Okay, all of this was
done when he was found just before six am after
(11:23):
a weekend of partying with friends. All Right, he has
a conversation argument three point fifteen two hours later, two
and a half hours later.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
This is the condition of his body.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Joe found on the road about a mile and a half,
two miles from the house where they've been partying.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, and this is I'm not saying that you can
see the end of the world from the locale, but
it's it's out. You got to pump in sunshine out here.
I mean, it's terrible. Oklahoma's case. Folks aren't aware of it.
It's not far away as crow flies actually from from
(12:07):
the Dallas area. And you know it's all relative in
Texas and Oklahoma because things are so big out there.
But it literally sits right on the Oklahoma Oklahoma Texas border,
and it's it's kind of north west of Dallas. And
let's face it, I mean it's a it's an agricultural area.
(12:30):
You know, you're going to have a lot of farmers
around there and that sort of thing. You're gonna have
a lot of a lot of wide open spaces for kids,
particularly you know, young teenagers, I mean older teenagers and
young adults that can rip and roaring out there and
they can have all the fun they want. But I've
got to tell you, when I dropped this list on
(12:51):
you guys, I don't know, but I predict, just like me,
you're gonna be shocked. They've these these injuries that that
(13:17):
no Press Grove sustained are not merely limited to his head.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
We've got injuries.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That that range from literally the soles of his feet
to the top of his head. Let that sink in
just for a second, now, that's one of the reasons
I was previously talking about, and just indulge me for
just a second. But when people are struck by a
motor vehicle, let's just say pedestrian struck by a motor
(13:52):
vehicle and they're upright, we look for things called bumper
marks on the body, and that means that's the point
of impact, if you're struck in the leg or the hip,
and it generally most of the time it's very definitive
you'll see a contusion because obviously when when they're alive,
(14:12):
you're going to brewse right, and then the body is
pitched over to one side or the body is rolled
over and the vehicle run continues on down the road. Dave,
in a case like this, and when we consider the
extent the extent of the injuries, I would not be
as inclined to believe that this is a standard rollover.
(14:33):
I'm not saying he wasn't rolled over. I guess the
question I would have to ask is how many damn
times was he rolled over? All right, it's not like
a it's not like you're going to get this in
one fail swoop, because Dave, we've got we've got ribs,
we've got cervicle, vertebra, we've got skull, we've got tissue
(15:00):
being peeled away with his young men. And if you'll
indulge me, I'll I'll go ahead and run this down
if you know, and we can. I just want everyone
to kind of understand, you know what we're what we're
talking about, you know, when when his remains were finally
finally come across and here we go, we've got so
(15:20):
Noah had ten broken ribs, He's got a fractured skull,
next spine fractures, internal bleeding. So I mentioned the damaged skull.
He's got internally, he's got brain brain hemorrhage. And Dave,
(15:44):
there's something that's kind of kind of interesting here. When
they did the examination and they kind of dissected out,
you know, through his brain and down his spinal cavity,
they actually found air and inside of these areas, which
is something Well, it tells me that these bones were
fractured so extensively that they they were open, they were
(16:08):
open to the environment. Do you reil us how hard
it is to crack open? I mean, skulls are hard
to crack open. Do you realize how difficult it is
to crack open a cervical vertebra and not just one?
Hang on, let me refer back to my notes, I
feel like I'm a trial. Now We've got C one,
(16:31):
which is actually referred to as your atlas if you'll,
if you'll imagine the image of the Titan. I think
he was a Titan, the Greek Titan Atlas holding up
the earth on his shoulders. That's where the term C
one or the atlas vertebra comes from. It drops down
(16:52):
to C two, C three is apparently C three.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
C four.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And C five are not damaged. But then it jumps
to C six and seven. So you've got this this
area in his neck which is the most proximal to
the base of the skull C one and C two,
and then you're going to jump over three other vertebral
bodies and landing on six, C six and C seven,
(17:24):
and those are all fractured. So that almost maybe it
maybe it doesn't, but that almost smacks of two separate impacts, okay,
just simply based on the cerebral on the curfable vertebra.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Rather.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The other thing too, that I remember now making note
of is that the C one not only is it fractured,
David C one was displaced, which means it's kind of
if you think about the spine if you're just if
you were looking at a skeleton running from north to south. Okay,
in the vertical plane at the very top. You know,
(18:09):
the the reason people go to go to chiropractice many
times is because the spinal alignment and all that sort
of thing. Well, there's a particular spinal alignment in the
vertical plane and Dave, the very top, the very top
vertebra again atlas that supports the skull is knocked over
to one side. How does that even happen?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Dave?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
We you know when when people see that, when it
has been seen and documented over the years. Judicial hangings,
Oh wow, yeah, judicial hangings where you get that kind
of displacement like that, and you get the fracturing, you know,
the old fracturing at the neck. By the way, we're
still going to do an episode on judicial hangings at
(18:52):
some point in time that I've talked about doing for
a long time.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I've tried to look at these injuries and think, Okay,
how could any one of these happen? And realize that
when you start thinking about again geography, where was he found?
It was found just off of a road early morning
before six am. And we know that his clothes. By
(19:16):
the way, haven't mentioned this yet, Noah press Grove with
all these injuries, Joseph Scott Morgan was found naked. His
clothes were sitting by him folded. Now what you know,
what is he flying through the air. The clothes are
coming off before the next tire rolls back over his
head to peel some skin, and his shirt falls off
(19:40):
and it folds itself like a Genie in the night
pants to and then I guess when he's back up
in the air, he decides to brush his teeth.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
But oh, they're all knocked out. We didn't get to
that yet.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
But let's get right to the rest of the injuries,
because again you're talking about pre six am side of
the road country rode code. He's got these injuries ten
broken ribs, serious gold neck and spine fractures, internal bleeding,
brain and organ damage, cuts and grazes all over his body.
And you pointed out he had about twenty mili liters
(20:14):
of blood pulled inside his head from a brain bleed.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
How much is said, Joe, oh.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Twenty MILLI leaders, let's see if I could do the
math on that very carefully. It's more than should be
there okay, all right, And so there's an indwelling hemorrhage
in there. So you've got this impact that has affected
these little vessels, which there are many of within the brain.
And we've talked about this on bodybacks before, Dave that
(20:44):
the brain and probably secondarily to that. I know we'll
probably get gigged on this by one of our friends,
but the brain and the liver are two of the
most vascular organs in the body, probably the brain hands down,
but liver is very vascular as well. That's why if
you have liver damage traumatic, you know, you got to
(21:07):
get you have to get that repaired. You're going to
bleed out into your gut brain same way. But the
problem is with the brain is that not only are
you experiencing this extensive hemorrhage and this pressure that's building
up inside of there. It's not just the blood loss,
it's also the pressure within the cranial vault. It's kind
(21:29):
of squeezing down on the brain. That's why there has
to be surgical intervention. But David, I got to tell you, brother,
I think you could have had an entire staff of
neurosurgeons standing there adjacent to that roadway. He wouldn't have
had two hoots and hell's chance of surviving this because
these injuries are so over the top with this kid.
(21:53):
And again, I got to tell you, this smacks to
me of not just a single instant, you know, because
of this the extent of the injuries we've got. And
just let me just bear with me, because he's got
he's got road rash, which most of the time you're
going to get road rash injuries from you can be
(22:17):
rolled over and just imagine a barrel rolling down the road.
That's what happens with your body, all right, if you're
caught beneath the undercarriage of the car car rolls over you.
And there are very specific injuries you look for with
that that translate from the undercarriage of the car also
the tires of the car onto the body. And then
you've got the underlying road surface or if you have
(22:42):
been dragged by a car as well. So you have
to try to understand the orientation of these of this
road rash. Is it like linear, you know, like does
the road rash A way to interpret this, Okay, if
you're looking at a all over type of event, if
(23:04):
the body is log rolling down the road. That means
like rolling like a log underneath a car. You're going
to have these kind of parallel markings on the body.
You'll have them on the upper body and lower body, however,
and those will translate into road rash. If you have
someone who is dragged behind a car, they're going to
(23:26):
be very linear and they'll be insane. Plane. Let's just
say someone is being drugged by the bumper of a vehicle.
You might have these abrasions and dave, they're going to
look strided. Shrided means like streaked, and they'll generally be
about as wide as your hand, all right, because it's
(23:46):
a point of contact, and you'll have multiple surfaces and
the body is being drug down the road, and they're
all gonna be linear and kind of parallel to one another.
So when you're thinking about orientation of the body to
the vehicle and to the road surface, what pattern were
these in Because we haven't necessarily heard that yet, you know,
(24:09):
we do know that road rash exists or what the
forensic pathologist is talking about. And by the way, the
State Medical Examiner's Office in Oklahoma, it's one of the
finest in the country. First Off, it's a state Medical
Examiner's office. It's a standalone, separate entity from any law
(24:30):
enforcement agency. It's not like governed by the state police
or anything. It's a standalone agency. And they're renowned. They're
renowned for their work and the quality of work that
they do.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
So I have no doubt.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
He's got this abrasion, Dave. That's on multiple surfaces. So
he's got road rash on his upper back. He's got
abrasions and grazes on his left shoulder, left arm, left
side of the tors and both of his butt. Okay,
so he's kind of twisting and turning.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Again.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We don't know if it's in necessarily the horizontal plane
or the vertical plane that these things are running relative
to the torso itself, and that's just that's the external vision.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
That you have. He's also got healed.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Abrasions that they found on and scabs on his nose,
both of his hands, his knuckles, left foot, and heel.
He's got an ulcerated healing or ulcer on his right thigh.
All of these, according to the Medical Examiner, these other injuries,
(25:45):
which is fascinating to me, predate the night of this event, Dave,
and they referred to as healed abrasions and scabs on
his nose and David, you know what, it's not just
that they're on his on his nose, they're on both
hands as well, and the knuckles. Dave, when I see abrasions,
(26:09):
when I hear about abrasions on hands and knuckles, you
know what, I think, you know, I think that there's
physical altercation involved. But yet these things are healing. I
think the one thing to try to understand is at.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
What level of resolve are these injuries?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Is this something that because you could, I guess over
a thirty six hour period, you'll have enough of a change.
And I think that we can all relate to this.
I mean we all can. You and I both can.
If we scrape our hand. Let's say that right now,
you and I scraped our hand. Thirty six to forty
eight hours from now, that insult is going to look
(26:49):
completely different than it does right now. Yeah, you would
have a scab, you would have some a bit of
resolving that's going on with the injury. Certainly, you know,
if you had a contusion there, the contusion is not
going to be the same color as it was forty
eight hours earlier. Thirty six hours earlier, So I think
that within this timeframe, I mean, one of the questions
(27:12):
is what was going on, what had he been involved in?
We do know this that those injuries were still there.
They hadn't gone anywhere, so they're not like ancient ancient injuries.
I think that we can probably speculate on that a bit.
With with these injuries though, you're kind of over there's
(27:37):
an overlay of of the of the fresh injuries and
these old injuries. The problem is, like many times with
these with these issues, there's you know, sequencing that goes on.
What was kind of fascinating about all this. You've got
(27:59):
this this guy that does Stuart Fisher, who's an internist,
and he had given he's a physician, he's like an
internal uh internal medicine guy that has, according to the
Daily Mail, had worked you know extensively in emergency you know, medicine.
They asked him to review the report, and the physician
(28:23):
had actually stated that this this kid has suffered so
many catastrophic injuries, Dave, that any number of these insults
could have killed him just like a stand alone UH.
I think probably the most significant one that the that
(28:43):
the uh that the doctor you know, pointed out was
the extensive, uh, the extensive skull fraction. As a matter
of fact, their you know, their comments relative to this,
and this comes from the police investigators that they described
as head Dave is being caved in. Now, how can
(29:04):
you have a cave in? And that would be what's
referred to as a depressed skull fracture where you have
to have energy transfer from an object to that underlying surface,
the external table of the skull, so that that direct
energy is coming from I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
A tire.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Or a foot, or an object like a bat or
a pipe. And you know, going back to the physition,
he said, you know, Dave, there's five, maybe up to
ten life threatening injuries just in stand alone by itself.
(29:46):
And that's again you have to ask yourself this question
a reasonable question here, could know Press Grove have sustained
all of the totality of these injuries simply being struck
by a motor vehicle with a single strike. I just
I have a real hard time swallowing.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Joe, what about.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
What about the clumps of hair? What about the skin
on the left side of his scalp that was torn
to the bone. I mean, I know there are thinner
parts of skin and things like that, But when you
start talking about skin being torn to the bone, that's
(30:32):
just animalistic behavior to me. It's something that unless you're
again now back to unless you are hit by something mechanical,
if another human being did this, how enraged are you
that you can cause hair to be pulled out, ripping
skin to the skull. A clump of hair, A clump
(30:54):
of hair was observed on his right butt cheek without
blood or tissue on it. Joe, have you ever seen
a car truck hit somebody and I guess the truck
fairy goes back and finds some hair that's undamaged and
laid on the person like as a wreath.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, yeah, it all depends.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Well again we're back to folded clothes, right right. How
how do you get head hair that is deposited on
the buttock? Well, it's a real dynamic situation. I'll give
you that if it is a rollover. But you know,
when you couple that also with what was that you
had mentioned Off of the aspect of the face, we
(31:34):
had skin that was feeled back, David, this is a
phenomenon that's known as degloving. Wow, degloving yeah, we.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Do gloving for everything we do.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well you give a yeah, you really do because in
some things are so and look, not all of it
comes directly from forensics because you have, you know, people
in standard medical practice, you know, deal with individuals that
have their skin has been degloved. You know, it does,
it does happen. It's horrible, it's horrible, and you know
(32:06):
people wind up having skin grafts and all those sorts
of things. But yeah, degloving for us, you know, it
has a couple of connotations. First off, you can have
traumatic degloving and uh you get degloving with skin in
regards to decomposition, you know, like the hands de glove
we you know, and the more will actually take the
(32:28):
dermal level of the skin and peel it off the
hands of a off of a decomposing body. Put a
latex glove over your own hand and insert your hand
into the skin, the degloved skin of the deceased, and
we can roll fingerprints that way. I've done that many times.
It's kind of a creepy thing to do. I know, uh,
(32:49):
I know what you're thinking right now, No kidding, just got.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Actually think if it doesn't fit, you must have quite.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Well yeah, yeah, and that's again that's an other problem
because skin is so stretched. But I'm digressing. We could
do an entire episode on things that we have to
do about decomposing bodies, like.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
From the hair and the skin. What about the teeth, Joe?
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Okay, The teeth are fascinating to me because you've got
this array of teeth that are lying about on the
roadway well in order. The reason there is a term
that people say they got their teeth knocked out is
because it's a big deal day you're aize how hard
(33:35):
it is to unroot a tooth traumatically, and that's a
single tooth, all right. I think one of the big
questions I have and is was there was there any
kind of maxillary which means your maxilla is essentially the
(33:58):
roof of your mouth. Just give me a little rope here,
but it's it's the roof of the mouth. So your
maxillary teeth, the upper teeth are seated in there. Then
you have the mangellary teeth and those are indemandible, which
is your jaw, all right, and they're deeply rooted. You know,
I think that most people can identify with this. You
know what your teeth are like you ever had tooth pulled.
(34:20):
We're not just talking about one or two teeth. We're
talking about multiple teeth that are scattered around on the
surface of the roadway. Well, most of time it's going
to inquire. That's going to require a very forceful impact.
I want to know what the underlying diagnosis were was
for the bony structure supporting the area. Was there extensive
jaw fracturing or maxillary fracturing, because we know that his
(34:41):
skull was fractured. Say what do they say earlier his
skull was caved in, Well, the upper skull if you're
talking about say the right or the left paridal area,
which is that area that's if you'll find your temple
and kind of go above into the rear, that's the
parietal area, a sprietal bone right there, and then you
have occipital bones in the back. They're kind of non
(35:04):
specific about that. I'd like to know what specifically what
the teeth are, and I'm talking about anatomical orientation.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Uh, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
What what was left where the teeth Okay, where the
teeth actually knocked out of his head or Dave, where
the teeth actually fractured and the root was still in
place in the in the in the socket of the
of the teeth. Totally two different things here. Okay, there's
(35:39):
there's so much trauma in in Noah's case, Dave, this
this autopsy alone, just let me kind of run this
down to you. The autopsy alone. When they got into
this thing, I would imagine it took them a couple
of hours, and you know what, the line share of
(36:00):
their time would have been spent doing here, doing the
external exam, because there's so much externally relative to his body.
Before you ever break out the cold steel, as we say,
and open his remains up, it would be a grand
(36:21):
undertaking in order to examine him and try to assess
everything measured appropriately. And I hadn't even talked about what
had happened in his chest cavity because we've got a
closed head injury, or I guess you could say it's
kind of open if they're talking about a depressed skull fracture.
But Dave, for Noah, both of his lungs were punctured,
(36:45):
so that means that puncturing of lungs comes about as
a result of fractured ribs. Will refer to it many
times as a flail chess where you've got multiple ribs
on both sides and you get what's referred to as
like a floating cast. A lot of blood associated with this.
As a matter of fact, I think that they recovered
(37:09):
roughly about three point two pints of blood. It's about
fifteen hundred millimeters of blood. He's got a contusion to
his heart, his spleen, and his stomach. So this kid
has just been obliterated, pounded, and it's not just external,
(37:36):
it's what has happened to him internally. There were at
the scene. The big thing about it is is that
with all of these injuries day, with the one thing
that really really catches your eye other than if you
didn't need anything else, Dave, there's no pools of blood.
(37:59):
There's nools of blood out there. And how do you
generate all of these injuries and you don't have.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Like a large.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Puddling of blood that's immediately adjacent to the body or
the body.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Is overlying it? Does?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It just doesn't. It doesn't make sense that. Look, I'm
I'm not going to sit here and say that you know, Noah,
(38:38):
some innocent little lamb that was you know, uh, just
brought in that he hadn't been participating in partying and
all this sort of thing, But it still doesn't excuse
the idea of how much trauma he has had. I'll
tell you this for folks that are not aware. His
blood alcohol is zero point one four, and that's that
(39:03):
exceeds the legal limit, okay, for intoxication, but that means
to operate a vehicle. Now he's under age. He's underage drinking.
So at point one four, you will be slurring your words,
You're going to have your motor activity and response time
is going to be slowed down significantly. You know, legal drinking,
(39:27):
the legal limit for drinking or being drunk, according to
state law pretty much around the country, it's going to
vary is generally point zero eight. His is point one four.
So he's he's got you know, he's got a significant
amount of alcohol on board. It's not twice the amount
(39:50):
quite yet of legal limit, but it's it's up there.
So he would have been impaired. But again, you know
somebody that's impaired, Dave is is the easily pounced upon
by somebody.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Well, let me give you the other part of this
shoe that I really wanted to make sure we understand
because we've covered most we didn't even cover all of
his injuries. You have friends, just so you know what
you heard is a partial list. There's still more. But
when he was found in that state, with all those injuries,
he was naked. He wore only mismatched shoes. One was
(40:25):
in n Adidas and the other was a Hey dude's.
There was debris and grass stuck in the laces of
each and more of them. On the left shoe, a
silver plated chain necklace from Noah's grandmother was scattered in pieces.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Not far away from a remnants of a tooth, not
a whole tooth, remnants of.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
A tooth, a fracture tooth.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Yes, his undamaged shores. We're seeing about thirty yards away. Jack,
this goes back several months ago. Was Noah's best friend
said that the shorts were actually borrowed. This goes back
to that rollover incident with the vehicle. Yeah, they were dirty,
(41:13):
They just grab clothes. You know, there were people spending
the night and staying they were grabbing that. That does
not surprise me nearly as much, you know as a
lot of the things that have happened. You know, the clothing.
What bothers me about the clothing is that he was
found naked with all those injuries, and his clothing was
not on him near him torn. I mean it's you know,
(41:34):
does that make sense, Joe. That really bothers me that
he's left in a state of destruction and you're not
finding ripped clothes, torning clothes, bloody clothes.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
And I think this goes to an element. I think
in legal terms, it's referred to as due care. You know,
we were Nancy recently and she was talking about that
public doesn't have an obligation necessarily to tend to somebody
that's not directly in uh you know, like if you're
a caregiver, if you're a parent, that sort of thing,
(42:08):
you do have a legal obligation you know, to take
care of you know, infirmed people and children and all
that sort of thing. But it would seem to me,
and there have been lawsuits that have been brought in
regards to this sort of thing when somebody comes to
a domicile and they're applied with alcohol and this is
I mean, bars have gotten sued over this. I know,
(42:30):
you know that day where people will get get hammered
you know, at a local bar, and the the you know,
the bar didn't use due care and allowed the individual
to leave, and they wind up either getting killed or
killing somebody, that sort of thing. So how do you
how do you allow someone to leave your domicile or
(42:52):
in your and you know that they're they're drunk, and
they're they're naked, and they're wearing mismatched shoes. It's such
a bizarre set of circumstances. And then finally, you know,
a little while later, he's found he's found dead a
distance from the house, out on the road, Dave.
Speaker 4 (43:14):
And with conflicting stories from those who are at the party. Yeah,
that's the biggest issue. You got friends from Look, man,
you guys all grow up together. Yes, you were having
a party. Sett all that to the side, where kles,
we got a dead guy? What happened? We can't get
the same story from everybody the minute somebody's lying, somebody's lying,
you know.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
And if you can't get if you've.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
Got five people telling five different stories, they could all
be talking about from their perspective of what they saw,
but when you put it all together, they all make
sense that isn't happening here. So that's what let him
know his family finally, after not getting anywhere with any
you know, by the way, I want to be very
the police have done the best job they can at
(43:56):
this point. They've involved others, you know, they've done their investigation.
But at a certain point in time, you know, you
you really have to know what happened, and they have
yet to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So no, and I don't know, I don't know that
they have enough enough probable cause to move forward from
a legal standpoint in order to intensify the investigation. They
have said that they're not investigating this as a hom side.
That was one. But I got to tell you, just
(44:28):
because you say you're not, they leave them.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I've been down this road before.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Just because they say they're not doesn't mean I'm doing
air quotes right here. Doesn't mean that new information might develop. Yeah, okay,
and not stupid. No, they're not and they're not going
to show their hand. But they've just kind of this
is really your strong suit here, just kind of lay
out this lawsuit because it's well, they.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
File a wrongful death lawsuit. They filed it and they
name names the family. This is the family of Noah
Press Grove. And by the way, when you file a
civil lawsuit, it's always monetary, right, But in this case,
they're not asking for enough money, like they're asking for
seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Oh yeah, hey, I got it.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
I'm glad you said this, because when I saw it,
I was thinking, yeah, if this was my kid, you know,
there's going to be a one at minimum with six
digits after that. And I saw seventy five. Boy, the
smacks of just trying to elicit information, and to me
it does at least. Yeah, I want to know. I
got to tell you this is the one thing about it.
(45:36):
I know that that this is putting the onus on
Noah here attorney. As we say, attorneys are going to attorney,
that's what they do. But the fact that the Press
Groves filed this lawsuit, Dave, I tell you what they're
what we're staring down the barrel of here. We're going
to be getting some depositions and they will be under
(45:59):
a they will be so ordered by the court and
somebody is going to have to go into a big
oak paneled office somewhere with lots of fancy books in
a room. They're going to sit at a big table,
and there's going to be a court reporter sitting right there.
There's gonna be a microphone in front of them, and
the plaintiff will ask questions, and if they have an attorney,
(46:22):
their attorney will try to deflect or reframe the thing,
and there will be questions ask but the big question
is will we actually get any answers. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is body Backs
Host
Nancy Grace
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