December 11, 2025 • 47 mins
The president of "D4vd" David Anthony Burke's touring company is grilled by a deputy district attorney in front of a grand jury.
The grilling focuses on why he didn't call the cops after the body of Celeste was discovered in his client's car. A grand jury is hearing evidence in the death of Celeste Rivas Hernandez.
Robert Morgenroth, the general manager of Mogul Vision, D4vd's record label, is also the president of Zara Brothers Travel, D4vd's tour company.
Reports say Morgenroth testifies all day before the L.A. grand jury. At one point, with people in the hallway, Morgenroth comes out into the hallway and talks to his lawyer so loud others can hear.
He says, referring to Beth Silverman, the deputy D.A. presenting the case, "She was very pushy on why I didn't call police."
Also, a female witness in the Celeste Rivas death case faces arrest after refusing grand jury testimony in the D4vd murder investigation.
Reports suggest LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division is considering D4vd a suspect in the alleged homicide of Celeste.
Joining Nancy Grace:
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law; Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy; X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away,” and Featured in Hit Show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Rob Dick - Bounty Hunter, Private Investigator, Former Deputy Sheriff for Sacramento County Sheriff's Dept., Owner of Renegade Investigations, and Casey Anthony's Former Bodyguard
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue," and Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Alexis Tereszcuk - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
- Scott Eicher - Digital Forensics Expert, Founding Member of the FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team (C.A.S.T); Historical Cellular Analysis Expert, Former FBI Agent of 22 Years, and Former Police Officer and Homicide Detective with Norfolk Virginia Police Dept. (having served 12 years and has worked several missing persons cases); Currently with Precision Cellular Analysis handling Criminal, Defense and Civil Cases
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a Lomshell arrest in the
D four VD aka David Anthony Burke case as a
witness refuses to rat out David Burke as a record
executive is grilled by a grand jury. Imancy Grace, this
(00:24):
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us. David is finally being viewed as a suspect
of teen girls Celestes death. You're gonna have to have
somebody rapped. How can she be missing all this time?
Even possibly dead since the spring?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
An arrest is eminent in the dfour VD case.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
As a witness is refusing to testify in front of
a grand jury.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
What does that mean now?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Unlike a defendant who cannot be forced to testify, a
witness can be put in jail if they refuse to testify.
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we are learning tonight, straight out to Alexis Tereschuk,
Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Alexis, this is what I know.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know it's a state's witness, which means it's a
witness that will testify against David Anthony Burke aka D
four VD. It's a female witness against Burke who is
refusing to.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Testify, and she has lawyered up.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
She's got the same lawyer as the record exec that
just got a let's see technical legal term in front
of the grand jury. Just wait, guys until you hear
what he said. That said, she's lawyered up female testifying
against a four VD, refusing to come in, and she's
(01:49):
about to end up in the can into pokey for
her recalcitrants.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
What do you know, Well, you're exactly right. So there
has been a grand j has been called in Los
Angeles County and Robert Morgan Roth, who is an executive
who's in charge of David's record label, he testified in
front of the grand jury and he was heard in
the hallway outside the grand jury room talking to his
(02:15):
attorneys saying, I didn't even feel like I needed to
be calling the police after she was found dead because
we were on tour. I didn't want to jeopardize the tour.
But within that same situation, the district attorney, the deputy
district attorney, she's very angry.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
She says to him.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I to his attorney, I need this woman to come in.
She needs to be here. And you know what I'm
about to issue away.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Stop right there.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I asked you about the witness getting arrested. You went
to the record executive and that's not it's the gist
of what he said.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But I want to stay.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And we know this because he went out in the hallway.
I mean, this is going to make our attorney joining
us today, Philipdbay do a backflip. You got a witness
debate and they're in a secret grand jury proceeding. Then
they come out in the hall and unload and everybody
(03:14):
is standing around hearing what they said.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That nothing secret about that.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So the record exec he goes out in the hall
after getting a by.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
The prosecutor in front of the grand jury, and he says, quote, I.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Said, I feel like I didn't have the responsibility to
call police.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I just wanted to get on with the tour.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So forget about the dismembered little girl in your client's tesla.
Forget about that. Let's just quote get on with the tour.
Thoughts of Dobay.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Well, First of all, in the state of California, independent
of mandated reporters, if you have observed either a murder,
a rape, or a loot act on a minor. You
are duty bound under California law to notify the police.
If you do not, it is a criminal act and
it's one fifty two point three of our Penal Code.
(04:21):
The problem is is that it's only a six month
misdemeanor for a recalcitrant witness not to come forward or
to notify police. So there's really no teeth in the
law now. Having said that, anybody who doesn't want.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
To put them on baking.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Hey, hey, hey, look around you, look around you. Are
you at your office or your luxury home?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Where are you right now?
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I'm in a studio.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Okay, do you want to set Do you want to
trade off your fancy office which I've heard all about,
or your very sophisticated pad and go sit in the
pokey for six months? It may mean nothing to you,
but I doubt a record executive or anybody else wants
to go sit on a metal bench for the next
(05:07):
six months.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So that's what a contempt charge will get you.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah, and I don't understand why at a minimum they
just don't take the fifth. If you don't want to
answer questions or you think you're going to be incriminated him.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
What are you saying the witness is not taking the fifth.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
People that are.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Going to be charged or have criminal culpability, they're the
only ones that can take the fifth. The Fifth Amendment,
the right to remain silent guaranteed under our constitution.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
A witness, unless they're going to land.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
In jail criminally charged themselves, cannot take the fifth Amendment.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I get it, But did you look around? Do you
think any of us just fell off the turnip truck.
Let's show him who's on the panel.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Phillip do Bate offices with US, high profile lawyer out
of LA this jurisdiction, doctor Bethe Marshall joining us. Renown
psychoanalyst out of LA. Rob Dick, private investigator, doctor Kimball,
Crown's chief medical Examiner Terrance County, Alexis Tereschuk. She's probably
covered more cases than meaning lawyers have ever tried. And
(06:14):
Dave Mack who is joining us remote. We all know
that only a defendant can take the fifth. So the
witness absolutely can be thrown in jail. And I gotta
tell you I've done it myself, except it was a victim.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Now, this is what happened.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It was a little girl victim who was afraid to
testify in a sex trafficking case, and she disappeared the
night before trial.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I was up the entire night. Five a m.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
My investigator, Ernest found her and I said, arrest her.
We did not put her in jail. We put her
in a nice hotel and he stayed with her outside
the door until the time for her time testimony.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Brought her to the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
She testified, and then we drove her wherever she wanted
to go, but she was in our custody.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I don't like arresting victims, but a witness, oh yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I would absolutely arrest a witness that wouldn't testify for
the state.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
You know, when I was a new attorney and I
needed witnesses in, we had the capability of getting body
attachments for witnesses who defaulted. At one time, I had
to haul a priest in. The next morning, they had
him in the lock up with the collar and the
whole thing, and we.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Went off on each other.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You would have never known that that man was a
man of the cloth. But I needed him in and
I had the court issue of body attachment, and they
hauled him in. Now, having said that, I don't know
what this witness's counsel is doing out there, other than
maybe looking like a potted plan. But you would think
that that lawyer would get on the phone to that
witness and say, look, you're at a minimum looking down
(07:51):
the barrel of a misdemeanor for not reporting this thing.
At least come in. If we think you're going to
be incriminating yourself for failing to report, we can take
the fifth, but don't default on the subpoena, because if
you do, you're only making things worse for yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You know, the lawyer for the witness, the female witness.
And let me tell you, a female prison, a female
jail is no cakewalk.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
The big dollhouse.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Ain't all that. You ever been in a lady's prison.
It's just as bad as a man's prison. Nobody wants
to go there.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
What it's a snake pit. It's a snake pit. It is.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So the same lawyer Dubet is representing the record executive
who was also defour v D David Anthony Burks manager.
The record exec is Burke's manager, and he is the one.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So this lawyer, Evan.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Jennie is representing both of them. I don't know if
that's the conflict of Manchester or not.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But that's a civil issue. But she's on the lamb.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
She's refusing to rat the Elie. Law enforcement is looking
for her right now. Have fun with that rancid tune
of there'sh Sandwich for lunch lady. Also, I want to
get back to the record, exec he actually says. He
actually says, well, yeah, I knew about her body being
found in a client's car, but I didn't think it
(09:17):
was my responsibility to call police. I just wanted to
get on with the tour, so forget about the little
girl rotting in the trunk.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's basically what he said.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Debate, Yeah, and let me tell you, if that young lady,
that child was under fourteen at the time, and he
had knowledge of either a rape, a murder or a
loot act on that kid, that is incriminating for him
not to report it. It actually creates a legal duty,
as I said earlier, upon him to report it, and
if he doesn't, he faces the pains of a six
(09:51):
month misdemeanor. Now having said that, the law requires that
he actually observed it, as opposed to have knowledge of it.
So I would absolutely defend him.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Mind no, no, no, no, you're talking about the record exec. He
didn't observe anything but himself in the mirror. The person
that is under threat of arrest is the female. Hold
on just a moment, let me go to you, Dave Mac.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Let's clarify.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Dave Mac joining me along with the Alexis Tereschuk, Dave
Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Dave Mac.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
The person that's getting arrested is the female witness.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And I'm betting, I'm betting that it's.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Somebody that lives in that house that basically shacks up
in there and knows what happened.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Nancy. We were given a huge clue on this a
couple of weeks ago when in some of our reporting
it was that the end of the police had run
that search warrant inside the house and they were able
to determine which person in that house had been sleeping
in which room were. They talked about how d four
VD had this very tight in her circle. Well, there
(11:01):
are three or four people that were with him constantly
and stayed in that house with him. One of those people,
I guarantee you is a female that they're trying to
get in court. There was also another one another kip
that we had, and it goes back to when they
said he had help. Whoever cut up the last had help.
(11:21):
It went out, remember on the long drive in the
middle of the night, out in the middle of nowhere,
had help. So we've got a couple of hints here
as to who it is. The scary part of it
is that the same attorney representing his manager also represents
this unnamed female that they're trying to bring into court
to testify it in front of the grand jury.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Okay, why do you see that as a problem save
Matt one lawyer can represent two people.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
I just it seems odd to me that you would
have other individuals not in the industry that would have
the same type of attorney. The LAPED has been working
on a timeline of activity for Celesti and Burke, and
an insider with the police investigation says they've been able
to determine that in the spring of this year, Burke
took a secret trip in the middle of the night
(12:09):
to a remote area of Santa Barbara County. Burke remained
in the area for several.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Hours, so it's entirely possible that the female witness was
along on that trip. We don't know who she is,
but she is willing to go to jail rather than
testify in front of a grand jury about or against
David Anthony Burke D four VD to doctor Bethany Marshall
(12:36):
joining us renown psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, this jurisdiction,
author of deal Breakers. You can see her now on
Peacock and find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Doctor Bethany, what do you think about that?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Nancy?
Speaker 7 (12:50):
Has she ever been a mother, a sister, a daughter,
somebody who has loyalty to another woman? That this is
what I'm wondering about this potential witness. You know, when
I have underage patients come into my office who report
some type of abuse, there's a maternal instinct that kicks
(13:12):
in where I really want to think about how to
protect that patient.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
I'm a mandated reporter. I have to call the authorities
to let them know that something nefarious is going on.
And who is this fiembale witness? That she wouldn't be
loyal to another woman? And you know, Nancy, we're talking
about a crime here. But to be honest with you,
there was a lot going on leading up to this crime. Right,
(13:41):
this is a young woman who's living in another man's
household with multiple residents and that household and you know,
I'm thinking about her being brainwashed, her being abused, sex assaulted,
all of that. Who's witnessing all of this? And why
are they not coming forward?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You know what, doctor Bethany Marshall, he just says something
very important. Let me go back to you, Dave Matt
Crime Stories, investigative reporter. A grand jury is usually sixteen
to twenty three people, depends on your jurisdiction, taken from
the voter registration logs, and they meet once or twice
a week, depending on the size of the jurisdiction, and
(14:19):
all they determine is do we have enough evidence to
charge the individual.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
They're not passing on guilt or innocence.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Why is that important? It's important because a grand jury
doesn't determine guilt or innocence. All they do is determined,
have I had enough evidence to think this should go
to a jury? Is it possible that he did this crime?
That's all they're looking at, and then.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
They do a yay or nay. That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Usually a grand jury presentation lasts under ten minutes per case.
You can bring on one witness, typically the lead detective,
because in grand jury hearsay is admissible. The detective can say, well,
this witness told me this, and this was told me that,
this is what the medical examiner said.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
The body was in his car. He was the last
one with her. Bam.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
That's how it works. Then it goes to a petite
jury of twelve to decide guilter innocence.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So to you, Dave Matt, we know it's a woman.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
We know it's someone that's going to testify for the state.
There are no defense witnesses at grand jury's.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So here are our choices.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
As doctor Bethany just pointed out, Dave Matt, it could
be someone that lived in that home that knows how
Celeste was killed. It could be somebody that moved the
car back and forth. Remember Steve Fisher told us over
and over and over, and he knows because he has
amassd the ring doorbell camp from all the neighbors, many
(15:48):
of the neighbors, and he knows when the car was moved.
He even knows who was moving at one time. Okay,
maybe it was a woman that moved the car for
d FORVD. Maybe it was someone, as you pointed out,
Dave Mac, that went on that late night trip into
the hills and stayed there for hours and hours. You know,
their speculation she was buried or hidding at one location
(16:09):
and then later put in the car trunk. Maybe she
was there for the trip, maybe she moved the car,
maybe she.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Lived in the house.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
But whatever she knows, Dave Mac, it's damning to David
Anthony Burke and she doesn't want to testify.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Who could she be? What does she know? Dave mac?
Speaker 6 (16:30):
Well, I think it goes back to that very first
search warrant when the police were in the house. They
were trying to find out who lives in this house,
because we know it's more than just Burke. And the
police said they were able to identify or maybe it
was Fisher, but they were able to identify the inside circle,
(16:51):
not the people who just travel around with Burke, but
we're talking about the people who shared that rendered house
with him, that had their own area, their own their
own night scent. They identified three different people. I think,
so you've got any one of those who was there
on a daily basis used that house as their own
place to live. But also I believe that person was
(17:16):
with Burke in the middle of the night as they
went up up north to Riverside County or San Borgino County,
Santa Barbara County, wherever they happen to have been out
in the middle of nowhere. Because we were told he
was there for several hours. We know they've got this
digital footprint, they've got they've got the markings for where
they were. And I say, hey, because we're going to
(17:37):
assume here that this person they're trying to bring in
front of the grand jury knows the details on what
took place that night. We've got him driving out, staying
in one spot, and driving back. There's one other individual
besides Burke that can tell us what happened, and that's
who it is. And this person, this female, does not
(17:58):
want to do it for what what ever? Reasons culpability,
I don't know, but that's what we're up against right now.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, hold on just a second.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm going to go to Lessa's Terrestchuk on digital information
on the female witness, but to Philip Dbay if she
knows about any.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Of the things Dave McK and I have just identified.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, did she take that late night trip out into
the woods where they stayed out there for hours and hours?
Did she move the car? Was she one of the
individuals that moved the car?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Steve Fisher I.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Believe has been told told by LAPD to shut his piehole,
and he's not going to stay on air who he
saw moving the car, but he knows.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
But the car was moved.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Several times, maybe not by the same person every single time.
So why would an individual just go move the car
around unless they knew what was in the trunk. She
could have lived in the home, she could have gone
on that late night trip, She could.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Have moved the car. She could know how Celeste died.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Do you think she's not testifying because she thinks she's
going to get charged Because if she's an accomplice, they
could go ahead and charge her if they wanted to.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
They would not be calling her as a witness. If
she is the target.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Well, here's the thing. Even if that were the case,
her counsel can demand that she be immunized. I mean,
that's the whole point. If you're a target, or you
could be a target, then you either take the fifth
or you see community and that's typically what the das
do if they really want to get the kingpin, if
you will. But I really think what's going on here
is that this young lady either has intel or she
(19:29):
is afraid to dime out the golden goose if you will,
because he is the cash count for everybody involved. If
he goes to prison, they don't eat. There's an old expression,
and that is if a concert doesn't close, I don't eat.
You know, it's like a real estate transaction. You don't
close escrow, you don't close the contract. Nobody gets paid.
(19:50):
And let me tell you he is the golden gay.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Can I ask you debate?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
What good is that money, that golden ticket, that paycheck,
that grave train?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
What's that going to do for her? Behind bars in
the big dollhouse.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I understand that a lot of these kids don't have perspective.
They live hand to mouth, is what it is.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You're not kidding in the other twenties have three jobs
and prosecuting in my twenties. Stop it. So do you
think that's why she's not coming forward? She'd rather get arrested.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
See no, no, if she were a target, she would
not be being forced to a grand jury. Her lawyer
who we know who it is, would have already said
she wants community.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Or she's going to take the fifth. That's not happening.
Speaker 8 (20:38):
The severely decomposed, dismembered remains found in a Tesla owned
by singer songwriter David identified as Celeste Reevas, reported missing
more than a year ago, Lake Elson, Or, California. She
was identified through forensics and a cause of death has
not benda.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
German Crime Stories with Nancy Grace David David Anthony.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Burke is finally being viewed as a suspect in Team.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Girl Celestes murder.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Police sources believe Celeste was killed back in.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
The spring, her body found in his Tesla truck. What
has changed? What has happened? Will this result in murder charges.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And arrests going down in the D four VD David
Anthony Burke case. What does it mean as a grand
jury meets in secret? Earlier we were discussing digital evidence
straight out to Rob Dick joining US bounty hunter, private investigator,
former deputy Sheriff Sacramento County, owner of Renegade Investigations, Rob Dick,
(21:49):
thank you for being with us. Philip Dubay Alexis Tereschuk
and Dave Mack had brought up a very interesting point.
The witness that the prosecution, a female prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Is held bent on getting in front of that grand jury.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
May have traveled with David Anthony Burke, may have lived
in the home with David Anthony Burke, may have moved
that tesla for him. There's any number of reasons the
prosecutor may need this witness, and she will get the witness,
Make no mistake about it. Even if it takes six
months for the witness to sit behind bars and stew
she will get the witness. That said, how can digital
(22:31):
forensics prove what this witness knows? For instance, her phone?
You think she went anywhere without her phone not happening?
If she was moving that car around, they have that triangulated.
If she went on that trip in the middle of
the night, you can see her phone traveling along with
(22:53):
David Anthony Burke's phone, or with his tesla.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You know it's a tesla.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It's got all sorts of navigation data embedded, right. How
can digital forensics nail this witness?
Speaker 9 (23:11):
Yes, I mean there's going to be a complete outline.
They'll be able to figure out exactly where every party
that was involved, when how long they were there. They're
going to be able to track them and completely show
who was involved.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
You know.
Speaker 9 (23:24):
And one other last thing that I don't think we're
bringing up. You know, she may have seen exactly what
happened and is afraid that could happen to her.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
That is certainly a possibility following up on what private investigator.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Rob Dick just told us. Joining us now is a
digital forensics expert, Scott Iiker. Listen to this.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
He is a founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis
Survey Team.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
How does it work, Scott?
Speaker 10 (23:53):
There's so much digital evidence that we could pull up
from computers, we can pull up from cars, pull up
from phones, we can pull up from iPads, anything, watches,
you know, ankle bracelets, anything. So as you get all
that data and preserve it with the phone company and
then pull it into a massive timeline locating the car,
(24:19):
the individual, you can put those things together with this female,
with the victim, with the car at the house. You
can build that story and that visual for the jury
and grand jury to see, yes, these were there, these
people were there and these people were not.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
But how does the triangulation process work. Can it be
attacked on cross examination? Although, of course, Scott, as you know,
in a grand jury proceeding, there is no defense attorney.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
This is not a guilt innocence phase. This is just
putting evidence to.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
A grand jury to determine is there enough for an
actual indictment. So the witness is not going to be
cross EXAs But how can triangulation be attacked by the
defense Because I believe from day one LAPD Please tell
me this is true. LAPD has been amassing cell phone,
(25:14):
a NAV system, all sorts of digital forensics to prove
this case. And that means they have to find the witnesses.
How are they going to do it? Find out who
was in the home? What about a data dump? What
about a stingray that could show me whose cell phones
(25:35):
were in that home at the time we believed so,
let's Revus was killed.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
How would that work? Scott?
Speaker 10 (25:43):
Let's detect this each different way triangulation And now, okay,
your thinking first is that you can get a specific
point on the earth. Well, it depends on what kind
of data is are you getting from the phone company
or from a vehicle or whatever. Sometimes it's GPS that
needs at least three satellites to be able to give
(26:05):
you a good point on the Earth. You have distance
from tower measurements from cellular towers that can be very
accurate if you have multiple towers giving you that data information.
And then sometimes depending on how late you're getting the data,
(26:28):
you're just getting at what tower the phone used or
the car used or something like that, not how far
from the tower. So it really just depends what data
they got at that time, because you don't remember they
were working a couple of weeks behind when the victim's
body was found. Now you had mentioned the steam ray.
Now the steam ray is actually just a device to
(26:51):
locate where phones are now, not where they were a
month ago, six months ago.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So I'm not going to be able to use this
ray to get all of the cell phones that were
being used in the home on that night. Curious from
clips of David on Take Time. So what are the
other possibilities? Well, for one thing, the NAV system on
a Tesla, Scott for a NAV system on the Tesla
tells you so much.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
For instance, what Scott iiker, Well.
Speaker 10 (27:21):
A NAP system is very very accurate on the Tesla.
It's GPS right, and they actually have a cell phone
in the car also, so if you can get several
different things and all the telematics about the car itself,
how fast it was moving, when it was moved, who
was in the car based on the cameras we've seen
all that already you know provided or should have been
(27:45):
provided and put downloaded from the car. Now you asked
about how do we know who was in the house
back in historical time. That's getting tower dumps. That's getting
information from the phone company's historically of what phone or
devices were in a general area of that residence at
(28:05):
that time. Again, it's depended upon how how long the
phone company teaches that data, on how specific that data is,
and what did you tell data that they can a
tower dump, so.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
You get that from the actual closest.
Speaker 10 (28:20):
Cell tower, several towers.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Alexis Tereschuk, there was a key card found in a
sewer drain a drainage outlet near where the Teesla was parked.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, this is from running back seven seven seven. It
was on Reddit. It says tesla.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So that's the key card we believe to D four
vd's Tesla.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Where was that found? Alexis Tereschuk in gout or near.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
His Hollywood Hills home on the on the ground and
so interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
So it was closer to his home Alexis, Yes.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
His Hollywood Hills home.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, not in Santa.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Barbara, and not at the impound place where the car
where her body was found in the car, but near
his home.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Interesting, scott Iker. That tells me a lot. It tells
me that the car was left and the key card
to the car was abandoned a distance away. Why, scott Iker,
what does the key card have to do with the tesla?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
What does it do with a tesla? Why do you
need a key card?
Speaker 10 (29:29):
Well, initially you need a key card to actually get
into the vehicle, and then set up the driver's phone
to be the actual key. So once you get the
key card, you get that from the dealer when you
buy the car. Then you set up the using the
key card to use the phone as the key for
(29:50):
the rest of the time you're using the tesla, and
you can set up several different individuals to use that tesla,
and then you can put that key card in a
safe place if you need to and just use the phone.
But every once in a while you'd have to bring
that key card out if you're going to add drivers
or some of that. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Philip D Bay joining US high profile defense attorney out
of this jurisdiction in LA.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I bet you is a.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Defense attorney just hate digital forensics because I bet you
money that this witness who's getting arrested because she refuses
to testify in front of the D four VD David
Anthony Burke grand jury.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I bet they've got her every which way.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
But upside down with digital forensics showing Philip what about it?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yeah, it's it's it is just that it's a digital footprint.
It what's her there? Nobody goes anywhere without their phone.
It's like a woman's purse. You don't let it out
of your sight. So no grandeur or let alone a
childer is going to buy the fact that the phone
wasn't on her. And yeah, the girl must be terrible.
She's petrified for a couple of reasons. Number one, she
(31:03):
doesn't want to get arrested, she doesn't want to get implicated,
and she doesn't know immunity from apple butter. She doesn't
even know the right lingo to use.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
She's got a lawyer, yes, she does well.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Okay, then hopefully that lawyer is in fact invoking her
rights so that nothing criminally happens. Now, the question I
think that the grand jury will have is whether or
not other people were involved in the crime.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
David Anthony Burg is being investigated as a suspect.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
In the death of teen girl Celeste.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
He has not been cooperative throughout the investigation. To Alexis Tereshak,
Crime Stories investigative reporter, the Medical Examiner's Office is at
war with the LAPD. It's very rare that that happens.
Usually they are in lockstep. What's happening. Why has LAPD
(31:58):
told the medical examiners to shut their pie hole?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
They believe that they are releasing too much information and
that this is knowing to affect the case, affect the
specific details whether or not she was actually completely dismembered,
whether she was decapitated or not. They don't want any
of this information out there because this would be showing
the people that are involved what they have, and they
don't want the public knowing and getting involved in all
(32:26):
of this. But the Medical Examiner's Office has been talking,
so there are conflicting stories out there. Was she dismembered,
was she frozen? Was she decapitated? Each side is trying
to keep the wraps on this, but the LAPD is
very mad that these details are coming out.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Joining me, Doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner, Ran County.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That's fort Worth.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
Medicine at TCU and the star of a hit podcast,
Mayhem in the Morgue, Doctor Kindle Crowns, thank you for
being with us. There's a lot made of whether Celeste
Rivas was frozen. Okay, we know from just common sense.
(33:09):
Let's see the tesla belonging to David Anthony Burke D
FOURVD sitting in the mpound lot. It sat there for days,
doctor Kendall Crowns, from our forends at KTLA. Now, given
that amount of time plus the amount of time it
sat out on the sidewalk, it sat out on the
(33:31):
sidewalk on the street, and that ritzy neighborhood millionaire mansions
for days and days being shouldled from one spot.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
To the next.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So doctor Kendall Crowns, by the time her body was
found in the car in the mpound lot, she had
been dead for days and days and days decomposing.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
In a trunk.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Given that fact scenario, which we know to be true,
doctor Kendall, could you still tell whether she had ever
been frozen.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I accept what the LAPD says.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
She was not frozen or partially frozen at the time
she was found.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
That photo was.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Showing you of the chazla with her body in it
there at the impounds from our friends at KTLA.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But could you, as a.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Medical examiner look at her body tissues under a microscope
and tell if she ever had been frozen.
Speaker 11 (34:29):
So when bodies freeze, you can actually get formation of
ice crystals and the body becomes hard as a rock
because the majority of our tissues are made up of water.
So if you get below freezing, the body becomes an
ice cube. But once it thaws out, there's really no
changes that happen if the freezing occurred after death that
(34:50):
you can look at and go, this body was frozen,
unless there's still ice crystals in the heart or in
any other blood vascular areas. Other than that, there'd be
no way to tell if she was frozen and then
thought out and then you know, dumped. But if she
had been alive and frozen, there are changes there but
not after death.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Trying to digest what you just said. I believe you
said if she was totally thought out, which obviously she was,
there's no way to tell if she ever was frozen.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Okay, you don't get freezer made, got it.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
A lot has been made as to whether she was decapitated,
but doctor Kimball crowns, no one is opposing the fact
that she was dismembered. Typically, when I've had a case
where a body was dismembered, the hands and the head
(35:52):
are cut off to avoid identification. In this case, if
she was that decomposed, how would the identification have been made?
Speaker 11 (36:08):
So if they dismembered her to try and get rid
of evidence of identification, like you said, of course the
hands with the fingerprints. The head is for facial identification,
but you can't get rid of the DNA. Even if
you drain the body completely of its blood, you can
still get blood smears from the spleen or the muscle
(36:28):
or things of that nature, and then you take that
DNA from those organs, and then you do a comparison
with the family, and you can still identify the person,
whether there's a head or hands or not. Even if
it was just a section of the leg, like they
only found a foot. You could still do a swab
of the tissues in that area, usually musculature, and get
(36:49):
a DNA sample to do a comparison with known family members.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Doctor Kendall Crown's. Isn't it true that even if a
body is dried.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Out, almost mummified, you could get DNA from bone marrow
or from the inside of a tooth, or you could
take a body part such as the liver, blend it,
liquefy it and get DNA from that.
Speaker 11 (37:17):
Yes, that's correct. All those are scenarios in which an
individual has gotten to the point that they're mummified or
dried out, you can still get DNA from them. Bone
marrow is a great one because the femur or the
big bone in your thigh still has plenty of bone
marrow in the ribs as well. The teeth. What you're
talking about is the pulp of the teeth is still
(37:38):
very that it can be present for a long period
of time. It's a good source for DNA. And then
finally blending up the tissue. We usually use the spleen
because it's so vascular. You can get a lot of
blood from it, even in a mummified state, but you
can use the liver or other organs if they're more intact.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
That photo we're showing you of the Chasla with her
body in it there at the impound, it's from our
president KTLA.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace and doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
A law has been made that the LAPD and the
Medical Examiner's Office is at war.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
The medical examiners.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
All medical doctors like yourself do not take kindly to
the PD, telling them.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
To shut the hay up.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
But the truth is, doctor Kendall Crowns, we don't know
if these leaks have come from the Medical Examiner's office,
Isn't it true? Medical examiners in large much Politan areas
have a fleet of their own investigators.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Atlanta did. In fact, some of.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
The best investigators I ever knew were from the Medical
Examiner's office. Elite could come from a medical examiner investigator,
It could come from somebody making copies of documents. It
could come from someone within the LAPD about the Medical
Examiner's reports. And therefore people think the leak is coming
(39:12):
from the Medical Exammer's office.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
There's really no way to identify who's leaking.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
But the medical Exammer's office is the one that's being spanked.
Speaker 11 (39:21):
That's correct. I mean the medical exammer's offices usually have
their own set of death investigators so they can do
an unbiased death investigation and not rely on police information
to determine cause and manner of death. But usually big
offices have upwards of over one hundred people, and big
cases like this that information people can talk about it
(39:43):
the death investigators, the autopsy technicians, the doctors themselves, and
information can get out in the public. But you're correct,
the police also can be guilty of leaking this information
because they get the file as well, and they are
another large organization with multiple people, and people talk and
this information gets out there. That's the problem with high
profile cases is they always create high profile problems because
(40:07):
so many people want to know the information and people
love to talk about, oh, guess what I saw at
work today. So you have to be very careful in
these situations about what you say to whom, and you
have to keep your mouth shut. And if the police
is telling the medical examiner's office to shut up, well
you got to do what you're told and You've got
to work as a team because they have to do
(40:28):
their investigation, and if we leak information, it can actually
color and bias the entire investigation and cause a lot
of problems.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Philip Dubay, high profile lawyer, loose lips sink ships. Just
like that witness, the record exec goes out in the hall,
starts whining. Someone could have been having a beer, and
somebody ever hears what they said talking about Hey, guess
what happened in the Medical Examiner's office today. Guess what
I read in this report that I copied. It could
(40:58):
be anybody that's blabbing. It doesn't have to be a
paid informant, it doesn't have to be official. Anyone could
be leaking this information, of.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Course, and that's usually how it happens. We see it
in the coroner's office. We've seen it in the DA's office,
and frankly, we've even seen it in the public Defender's
office over the years, where somebody sort of casually mentioned
something and before you know it, you know, it becomes,
you know, like this big, huge story and it takes
on a life of its own, and then before you
(41:28):
know it, it's it's taken.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Out Caber Philip Imbricaber.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yes, somebody blabbed and suddenly it was a dateline special.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
I know, and the court opened up a special investigation.
They were going to get to the bottom of it.
And I think the only reason why they let it
go is twofold Number one. He pled so the case
was over. But number two, I think under Idaho law,
even if you do get to the bottom of it,
it was only a misdemeanor to invest all this money
in a misdemeanor. It just wasn't costing.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Don't know why you keep saying that it's not.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
You're in sitting in jail an arrest to go down
in the D four VD David Anthony Burke case, as
I like to call it, the Celestia Rev's case, a
witness refusing to testify.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Why what does she know? Rob Dick has a theory.
Speaker 9 (42:15):
What I think it's not so much worried about going
to jail. I think it's worried about what she's seen
the same thing happening to her. I mean, it's a
possible fear in her own self. She could end up
like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Let me follow up on one investigator private investigator Rob
Dick said.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Afraid it's going to happen to her.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Well, you know what, she wasn't afraid to go along
for the ride to for instance, Lin with the mansion,
be on the dole, eat out at fancy restaurants, go
to concerts.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Afraid of what you know.
Speaker 7 (42:50):
Nancy, she's complicit in some way. When witnesses do not
want to come forward, it's usually because they have played
a role in the crime. Maybe it's just a silent witness, right,
Maybe it's just somebody watching Celeste being abused. But she
saw something, and you know, you know the term house
(43:12):
of horrors. We're talking about homicide here, we're talking about
a dismembered body in a front But what we're not
talking about is the house of horrors. What was going
on in that household up to this homicide and this dismemberment.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
Were women being used as sex slaves? Were women being dominated?
Were some women dominating other women? Were people using drugs together,
We're people watching sadistic pornography together and then you know,
sadistically hurting each other. We don't know what was happening
in that house. And I think that's going to be
(43:50):
really important for us to uncover as this trial moves forward.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
So, in other words, doctor Bethany, another person stands by
and watches what's happening to Celeste and does nothing. Let
me remind everybody, So Lest's just thirteen years old when
this whole thing cranked up with David Anthony Burke. She's dead, dismembered,
(44:16):
turning into nothing but go. And someone doesn't want to testify. Really,
someone that potentially stood by and.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Watch all this happen and did nothing. That person, Befany.
Speaker 7 (44:32):
You know, Nancy, I'm a mandated reporter as a marriage, family,
and child counselor, and it's a psychoanalyst. If I see
something that's being done to a minor or to a child,
I have to report that, not I don't have to
investigate it. I just report this suspicion that something is happening.
We have all these people in that household seeing i'm
sure pretty terrible things going on, and not one person
(44:57):
is calling the police.
Speaker 5 (44:58):
Not one person is called. No one person is talking
to Celeste.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
What about her parents?
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Did any of these witnesses call her parents?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
No?
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Everybody is just standing by silent.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You can run, but you can't hide. That female prosecutor
knows you. Your name, your DOB, your SSN, Social Security number,
your address, your mama's name, your brother's name, your boyfriend's name.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Your tag number. Go ahead, go in, go under oath
and tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
A little girl is dead and you're refusing to testify,
and you know another thing to D four D David
Anthony Burk's manager.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Shame on you.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
You actually said out in the courthouse hall that you
didn't have any duty to call and report a dead
girl in a trunk. All you wanted to do was
continue with the tour. You know what, conscious pilot, just
washing your.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Hands and looking the other way. It ain't working this time.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
If you know or think you know anything about the
brutal death of this little girl, ce Les Rivas, please
call LAPD two one three four eight six six eight
nine zero.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
There will be justice in this case. Two one three
four eight six six' eight nine.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Zero you can either get involved be a part of the,
solution or you can stand back and do nothing and
be part of the. Problem tonight we remember An american,
Hero Officerjesus corona Of POLLIER, Pd, california just twenty nine
killed in the line of, duty leaving behind his wife
(46:56):
and a little. Girl An american, hero Officers
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Nancy, grace running off brid
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a Lomshell arrest in the
D four VD aka David Anthony Burke case as a
witness refuses to rat out David Burke as a record
executive is grilled by a grand jury. Imancy Grace, this
(00:24):
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us. David is finally being viewed as a suspect
of teen girls Celestes death. You're gonna have to have
somebody rapped. How can she be missing all this time?
Even possibly dead since the spring?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
An arrest is eminent in the dfour VD case.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
As a witness is refusing to testify in front of
a grand jury.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
What does that mean now?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Unlike a defendant who cannot be forced to testify, a
witness can be put in jail if they refuse to testify.
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we are learning tonight, straight out to Alexis Tereschuk,
Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Alexis, this is what I know.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know it's a state's witness, which means it's a
witness that will testify against David Anthony Burke aka D
four VD. It's a female witness against Burke who is
refusing to.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Testify, and she has lawyered up.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
She's got the same lawyer as the record exec that
just got a let's see technical legal term in front
of the grand jury. Just wait, guys until you hear
what he said. That said, she's lawyered up female testifying
against a four VD, refusing to come in, and she's
(01:49):
about to end up in the can into pokey for
her recalcitrants.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
What do you know, Well, you're exactly right. So there
has been a grand j has been called in Los
Angeles County and Robert Morgan Roth, who is an executive
who's in charge of David's record label, he testified in
front of the grand jury and he was heard in
the hallway outside the grand jury room talking to his
(02:15):
attorneys saying, I didn't even feel like I needed to
be calling the police after she was found dead because
we were on tour. I didn't want to jeopardize the tour.
But within that same situation, the district attorney, the deputy
district attorney, she's very angry.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
She says to him.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
I to his attorney, I need this woman to come in.
She needs to be here. And you know what I'm
about to issue away.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Stop right there.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I asked you about the witness getting arrested. You went
to the record executive and that's not it's the gist
of what he said.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But I want to stay.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And we know this because he went out in the hallway.
I mean, this is going to make our attorney joining
us today, Philipdbay do a backflip. You got a witness
debate and they're in a secret grand jury proceeding. Then
they come out in the hall and unload and everybody
(03:14):
is standing around hearing what they said.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That nothing secret about that.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So the record exec he goes out in the hall
after getting a by.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
The prosecutor in front of the grand jury, and he says, quote, I.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Said, I feel like I didn't have the responsibility to
call police.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I just wanted to get on with the tour.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So forget about the dismembered little girl in your client's tesla.
Forget about that. Let's just quote get on with the tour.
Thoughts of Dobay.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Well, First of all, in the state of California, independent
of mandated reporters, if you have observed either a murder,
a rape, or a loot act on a minor. You
are duty bound under California law to notify the police.
If you do not, it is a criminal act and
it's one fifty two point three of our Penal Code.
(04:21):
The problem is is that it's only a six month
misdemeanor for a recalcitrant witness not to come forward or
to notify police. So there's really no teeth in the
law now. Having said that, anybody who doesn't want.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
To put them on baking.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Hey, hey, hey, look around you, look around you. Are
you at your office or your luxury home?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Where are you right now?
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I'm in a studio.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Okay, do you want to set Do you want to
trade off your fancy office which I've heard all about,
or your very sophisticated pad and go sit in the
pokey for six months? It may mean nothing to you,
but I doubt a record executive or anybody else wants
to go sit on a metal bench for the next
(05:07):
six months.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So that's what a contempt charge will get you.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Yeah, and I don't understand why at a minimum they
just don't take the fifth. If you don't want to
answer questions or you think you're going to be incriminated him.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
What are you saying the witness is not taking the fifth.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
People that are.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Going to be charged or have criminal culpability, they're the
only ones that can take the fifth. The Fifth Amendment,
the right to remain silent guaranteed under our constitution.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
A witness, unless they're going to land.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
In jail criminally charged themselves, cannot take the fifth Amendment.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I get it, But did you look around? Do you
think any of us just fell off the turnip truck.
Let's show him who's on the panel.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Phillip do Bate offices with US, high profile lawyer out
of LA this jurisdiction, doctor Bethe Marshall joining us. Renown
psychoanalyst out of LA. Rob Dick, private investigator, doctor Kimball,
Crown's chief medical Examiner Terrance County, Alexis Tereschuk. She's probably
covered more cases than meaning lawyers have ever tried. And
(06:14):
Dave Mack who is joining us remote. We all know
that only a defendant can take the fifth. So the
witness absolutely can be thrown in jail. And I gotta
tell you I've done it myself, except it was a victim.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Now, this is what happened.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
It was a little girl victim who was afraid to
testify in a sex trafficking case, and she disappeared the
night before trial.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I was up the entire night. Five a m.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
My investigator, Ernest found her and I said, arrest her.
We did not put her in jail. We put her
in a nice hotel and he stayed with her outside
the door until the time for her time testimony.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Brought her to the courthouse.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
She testified, and then we drove her wherever she wanted
to go, but she was in our custody.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I don't like arresting victims, but a witness, oh yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I would absolutely arrest a witness that wouldn't testify for
the state.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
You know, when I was a new attorney and I
needed witnesses in, we had the capability of getting body
attachments for witnesses who defaulted. At one time, I had
to haul a priest in. The next morning, they had
him in the lock up with the collar and the
whole thing, and we.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Went off on each other.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You would have never known that that man was a
man of the cloth. But I needed him in and
I had the court issue of body attachment, and they
hauled him in. Now, having said that, I don't know
what this witness's counsel is doing out there, other than
maybe looking like a potted plan. But you would think
that that lawyer would get on the phone to that
witness and say, look, you're at a minimum looking down
(07:51):
the barrel of a misdemeanor for not reporting this thing.
At least come in. If we think you're going to
be incriminating yourself for failing to report, we can take
the fifth, but don't default on the subpoena, because if
you do, you're only making things worse for yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You know, the lawyer for the witness, the female witness.
And let me tell you, a female prison, a female
jail is no cakewalk.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
The big dollhouse.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Ain't all that. You ever been in a lady's prison.
It's just as bad as a man's prison. Nobody wants
to go there.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
What it's a snake pit. It's a snake pit. It is.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So the same lawyer Dubet is representing the record executive
who was also defour v D David Anthony Burks manager.
The record exec is Burke's manager, and he is the one.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So this lawyer, Evan.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Jennie is representing both of them. I don't know if
that's the conflict of Manchester or not.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
But that's a civil issue. But she's on the lamb.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
She's refusing to rat the Elie. Law enforcement is looking
for her right now. Have fun with that rancid tune
of there'sh Sandwich for lunch lady. Also, I want to
get back to the record, exec he actually says. He
actually says, well, yeah, I knew about her body being
found in a client's car, but I didn't think it
(09:17):
was my responsibility to call police. I just wanted to
get on with the tour, so forget about the little
girl rotting in the trunk.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's basically what he said.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Debate, Yeah, and let me tell you, if that young lady,
that child was under fourteen at the time, and he
had knowledge of either a rape, a murder or a
loot act on that kid, that is incriminating for him
not to report it. It actually creates a legal duty,
as I said earlier, upon him to report it, and
if he doesn't, he faces the pains of a six
(09:51):
month misdemeanor. Now having said that, the law requires that
he actually observed it, as opposed to have knowledge of it.
So I would absolutely defend him.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Mind no, no, no, no, you're talking about the record exec. He
didn't observe anything but himself in the mirror. The person
that is under threat of arrest is the female. Hold
on just a moment, let me go to you, Dave Mac.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Let's clarify.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Dave Mac joining me along with the Alexis Tereschuk, Dave
Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Dave Mac.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
The person that's getting arrested is the female witness.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And I'm betting, I'm betting that it's.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Somebody that lives in that house that basically shacks up
in there and knows what happened.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Nancy. We were given a huge clue on this a
couple of weeks ago when in some of our reporting
it was that the end of the police had run
that search warrant inside the house and they were able
to determine which person in that house had been sleeping
in which room were. They talked about how d four
VD had this very tight in her circle. Well, there
(11:01):
are three or four people that were with him constantly
and stayed in that house with him. One of those people,
I guarantee you is a female that they're trying to
get in court. There was also another one another kip
that we had, and it goes back to when they
said he had help. Whoever cut up the last had help.
(11:21):
It went out, remember on the long drive in the
middle of the night, out in the middle of nowhere,
had help. So we've got a couple of hints here
as to who it is. The scary part of it
is that the same attorney representing his manager also represents
this unnamed female that they're trying to bring into court
to testify it in front of the grand jury.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Okay, why do you see that as a problem save
Matt one lawyer can represent two people.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
I just it seems odd to me that you would
have other individuals not in the industry that would have
the same type of attorney. The LAPED has been working
on a timeline of activity for Celesti and Burke, and
an insider with the police investigation says they've been able
to determine that in the spring of this year, Burke
took a secret trip in the middle of the night
(12:09):
to a remote area of Santa Barbara County. Burke remained
in the area for several.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Hours, so it's entirely possible that the female witness was
along on that trip. We don't know who she is,
but she is willing to go to jail rather than
testify in front of a grand jury about or against
David Anthony Burke D four VD to doctor Bethany Marshall
(12:36):
joining us renown psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, this jurisdiction,
author of deal Breakers. You can see her now on
Peacock and find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Doctor Bethany, what do you think about that?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Nancy?
Speaker 7 (12:50):
Has she ever been a mother, a sister, a daughter,
somebody who has loyalty to another woman? That this is
what I'm wondering about this potential witness. You know, when
I have underage patients come into my office who report
some type of abuse, there's a maternal instinct that kicks
(13:12):
in where I really want to think about how to
protect that patient.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
I'm a mandated reporter. I have to call the authorities
to let them know that something nefarious is going on.
And who is this fiembale witness? That she wouldn't be
loyal to another woman? And you know, Nancy, we're talking
about a crime here. But to be honest with you,
there was a lot going on leading up to this crime. Right,
(13:41):
this is a young woman who's living in another man's
household with multiple residents and that household and you know,
I'm thinking about her being brainwashed, her being abused, sex assaulted,
all of that. Who's witnessing all of this? And why
are they not coming forward?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
You know what, doctor Bethany Marshall, he just says something
very important. Let me go back to you, Dave Matt
Crime Stories, investigative reporter. A grand jury is usually sixteen
to twenty three people, depends on your jurisdiction, taken from
the voter registration logs, and they meet once or twice
a week, depending on the size of the jurisdiction, and
(14:19):
all they determine is do we have enough evidence to
charge the individual.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
They're not passing on guilt or innocence.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Why is that important? It's important because a grand jury
doesn't determine guilt or innocence. All they do is determined,
have I had enough evidence to think this should go
to a jury? Is it possible that he did this crime?
That's all they're looking at, and then.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
They do a yay or nay. That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Usually a grand jury presentation lasts under ten minutes per case.
You can bring on one witness, typically the lead detective,
because in grand jury hearsay is admissible. The detective can say, well,
this witness told me this, and this was told me that,
this is what the medical examiner said.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
The body was in his car. He was the last
one with her. Bam.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
That's how it works. Then it goes to a petite
jury of twelve to decide guilter innocence.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
So to you, Dave Matt, we know it's a woman.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
We know it's someone that's going to testify for the state.
There are no defense witnesses at grand jury's.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So here are our choices.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
As doctor Bethany just pointed out, Dave Matt, it could
be someone that lived in that home that knows how
Celeste was killed. It could be somebody that moved the
car back and forth. Remember Steve Fisher told us over
and over and over, and he knows because he has
amassd the ring doorbell camp from all the neighbors, many
(15:48):
of the neighbors, and he knows when the car was moved.
He even knows who was moving at one time. Okay,
maybe it was a woman that moved the car for
d FORVD. Maybe it was someone, as you pointed out,
Dave Mac, that went on that late night trip into
the hills and stayed there for hours and hours. You know,
their speculation she was buried or hidding at one location
(16:09):
and then later put in the car trunk. Maybe she
was there for the trip, maybe she moved the car,
maybe she.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Lived in the house.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
But whatever she knows, Dave Mac, it's damning to David
Anthony Burke and she doesn't want to testify.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Who could she be? What does she know? Dave mac?
Speaker 6 (16:30):
Well, I think it goes back to that very first
search warrant when the police were in the house. They
were trying to find out who lives in this house,
because we know it's more than just Burke. And the
police said they were able to identify or maybe it
was Fisher, but they were able to identify the inside circle,
(16:51):
not the people who just travel around with Burke, but
we're talking about the people who shared that rendered house
with him, that had their own area, their own their
own night scent. They identified three different people. I think,
so you've got any one of those who was there
on a daily basis used that house as their own
place to live. But also I believe that person was
(17:16):
with Burke in the middle of the night as they
went up up north to Riverside County or San Borgino County,
Santa Barbara County, wherever they happen to have been out
in the middle of nowhere. Because we were told he
was there for several hours. We know they've got this
digital footprint, they've got they've got the markings for where
they were. And I say, hey, because we're going to
(17:37):
assume here that this person they're trying to bring in
front of the grand jury knows the details on what
took place that night. We've got him driving out, staying
in one spot, and driving back. There's one other individual
besides Burke that can tell us what happened, and that's
who it is. And this person, this female, does not
(17:58):
want to do it for what what ever? Reasons culpability,
I don't know, but that's what we're up against right now.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, hold on just a second.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I'm going to go to Lessa's Terrestchuk on digital information
on the female witness, but to Philip Dbay if she
knows about any.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Of the things Dave McK and I have just identified.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, did she take that late night trip out into
the woods where they stayed out there for hours and hours?
Did she move the car? Was she one of the
individuals that moved the car?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Steve Fisher I.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Believe has been told told by LAPD to shut his piehole,
and he's not going to stay on air who he
saw moving the car, but he knows.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
But the car was moved.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Several times, maybe not by the same person every single time.
So why would an individual just go move the car
around unless they knew what was in the trunk. She
could have lived in the home, she could have gone
on that late night trip, She could.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Have moved the car. She could know how Celeste died.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Do you think she's not testifying because she thinks she's
going to get charged Because if she's an accomplice, they
could go ahead and charge her if they wanted to.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
They would not be calling her as a witness. If
she is the target.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Well, here's the thing. Even if that were the case,
her counsel can demand that she be immunized. I mean,
that's the whole point. If you're a target, or you
could be a target, then you either take the fifth
or you see community and that's typically what the das
do if they really want to get the kingpin, if
you will. But I really think what's going on here
is that this young lady either has intel or she
(19:29):
is afraid to dime out the golden goose if you will,
because he is the cash count for everybody involved. If
he goes to prison, they don't eat. There's an old expression,
and that is if a concert doesn't close, I don't eat.
You know, it's like a real estate transaction. You don't
close escrow, you don't close the contract. Nobody gets paid.
(19:50):
And let me tell you he is the golden gay.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Can I ask you debate?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
What good is that money, that golden ticket, that paycheck,
that grave train?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
What's that going to do for her? Behind bars in
the big dollhouse.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I understand that a lot of these kids don't have perspective.
They live hand to mouth, is what it is.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You're not kidding in the other twenties have three jobs
and prosecuting in my twenties. Stop it. So do you
think that's why she's not coming forward? She'd rather get arrested.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
See no, no, if she were a target, she would
not be being forced to a grand jury. Her lawyer
who we know who it is, would have already said
she wants community.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Or she's going to take the fifth. That's not happening.
Speaker 8 (20:38):
The severely decomposed, dismembered remains found in a Tesla owned
by singer songwriter David identified as Celeste Reevas, reported missing
more than a year ago, Lake Elson, Or, California. She
was identified through forensics and a cause of death has
not benda.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
German Crime Stories with Nancy Grace David David Anthony.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Burke is finally being viewed as a suspect in Team.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Girl Celestes murder.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Police sources believe Celeste was killed back in.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
The spring, her body found in his Tesla truck. What
has changed? What has happened? Will this result in murder charges.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And arrests going down in the D four VD David
Anthony Burke case. What does it mean as a grand
jury meets in secret? Earlier we were discussing digital evidence
straight out to Rob Dick joining US bounty hunter, private investigator,
former deputy Sheriff Sacramento County, owner of Renegade Investigations, Rob Dick,
(21:49):
thank you for being with us. Philip Dubay Alexis Tereschuk
and Dave Mack had brought up a very interesting point.
The witness that the prosecution, a female prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Is held bent on getting in front of that grand jury.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
May have traveled with David Anthony Burke, may have lived
in the home with David Anthony Burke, may have moved
that tesla for him. There's any number of reasons the
prosecutor may need this witness, and she will get the witness,
Make no mistake about it. Even if it takes six
months for the witness to sit behind bars and stew
she will get the witness. That said, how can digital
(22:31):
forensics prove what this witness knows? For instance, her phone?
You think she went anywhere without her phone not happening?
If she was moving that car around, they have that triangulated.
If she went on that trip in the middle of
the night, you can see her phone traveling along with
(22:53):
David Anthony Burke's phone, or with his tesla.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You know it's a tesla.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
It's got all sorts of navigation data embedded, right. How
can digital forensics nail this witness?
Speaker 9 (23:11):
Yes, I mean there's going to be a complete outline.
They'll be able to figure out exactly where every party
that was involved, when how long they were there. They're
going to be able to track them and completely show
who was involved.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
You know.
Speaker 9 (23:24):
And one other last thing that I don't think we're
bringing up. You know, she may have seen exactly what
happened and is afraid that could happen to her.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
That is certainly a possibility following up on what private investigator.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Rob Dick just told us. Joining us now is a
digital forensics expert, Scott Iiker. Listen to this.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
He is a founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis
Survey Team.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
How does it work, Scott?
Speaker 10 (23:53):
There's so much digital evidence that we could pull up
from computers, we can pull up from cars, pull up
from phones, we can pull up from iPads, anything, watches,
you know, ankle bracelets, anything. So as you get all
that data and preserve it with the phone company and
then pull it into a massive timeline locating the car,
(24:19):
the individual, you can put those things together with this female,
with the victim, with the car at the house. You
can build that story and that visual for the jury
and grand jury to see, yes, these were there, these
people were there and these people were not.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
But how does the triangulation process work. Can it be
attacked on cross examination? Although, of course, Scott, as you know,
in a grand jury proceeding, there is no defense attorney.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
This is not a guilt innocence phase. This is just
putting evidence to.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
A grand jury to determine is there enough for an
actual indictment. So the witness is not going to be
cross EXAs But how can triangulation be attacked by the
defense Because I believe from day one LAPD Please tell
me this is true. LAPD has been amassing cell phone,
(25:14):
a NAV system, all sorts of digital forensics to prove
this case. And that means they have to find the witnesses.
How are they going to do it? Find out who
was in the home? What about a data dump? What
about a stingray that could show me whose cell phones
(25:35):
were in that home at the time we believed so,
let's Revus was killed.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
How would that work? Scott?
Speaker 10 (25:43):
Let's detect this each different way triangulation And now, okay,
your thinking first is that you can get a specific
point on the earth. Well, it depends on what kind
of data is are you getting from the phone company
or from a vehicle or whatever. Sometimes it's GPS that
needs at least three satellites to be able to give
(26:05):
you a good point on the Earth. You have distance
from tower measurements from cellular towers that can be very
accurate if you have multiple towers giving you that data information.
And then sometimes depending on how late you're getting the data,
(26:28):
you're just getting at what tower the phone used or
the car used or something like that, not how far
from the tower. So it really just depends what data
they got at that time, because you don't remember they
were working a couple of weeks behind when the victim's
body was found. Now you had mentioned the steam ray.
Now the steam ray is actually just a device to
(26:51):
locate where phones are now, not where they were a
month ago, six months ago.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
So I'm not going to be able to use this
ray to get all of the cell phones that were
being used in the home on that night. Curious from
clips of David on Take Time. So what are the
other possibilities? Well, for one thing, the NAV system on
a Tesla, Scott for a NAV system on the Tesla
tells you so much.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
For instance, what Scott iiker, Well.
Speaker 10 (27:21):
A NAP system is very very accurate on the Tesla.
It's GPS right, and they actually have a cell phone
in the car also, so if you can get several
different things and all the telematics about the car itself,
how fast it was moving, when it was moved, who
was in the car based on the cameras we've seen
all that already you know provided or should have been
(27:45):
provided and put downloaded from the car. Now you asked
about how do we know who was in the house
back in historical time. That's getting tower dumps. That's getting
information from the phone company's historically of what phone or
devices were in a general area of that residence at
(28:05):
that time. Again, it's depended upon how how long the
phone company teaches that data, on how specific that data is,
and what did you tell data that they can a
tower dump, so.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
You get that from the actual closest.
Speaker 10 (28:20):
Cell tower, several towers.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Alexis Tereschuk, there was a key card found in a
sewer drain a drainage outlet near where the Teesla was parked.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, this is from running back seven seven seven. It
was on Reddit. It says tesla.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So that's the key card we believe to D four
vd's Tesla.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Where was that found? Alexis Tereschuk in gout or near.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
His Hollywood Hills home on the on the ground and
so interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
So it was closer to his home Alexis, Yes.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
His Hollywood Hills home.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, not in Santa.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Barbara, and not at the impound place where the car
where her body was found in the car, but near
his home.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Interesting, scott Iker. That tells me a lot. It tells
me that the car was left and the key card
to the car was abandoned a distance away. Why, scott Iker,
what does the key card have to do with the tesla?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
What does it do with a tesla? Why do you
need a key card?
Speaker 10 (29:29):
Well, initially you need a key card to actually get
into the vehicle, and then set up the driver's phone
to be the actual key. So once you get the
key card, you get that from the dealer when you
buy the car. Then you set up the using the
key card to use the phone as the key for
(29:50):
the rest of the time you're using the tesla, and
you can set up several different individuals to use that tesla,
and then you can put that key card in a
safe place if you need to and just use the phone.
But every once in a while you'd have to bring
that key card out if you're going to add drivers
or some of that. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Philip D Bay joining US high profile defense attorney out
of this jurisdiction in LA.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I bet you is a.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Defense attorney just hate digital forensics because I bet you
money that this witness who's getting arrested because she refuses
to testify in front of the D four VD David
Anthony Burke grand jury.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I bet they've got her every which way.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
But upside down with digital forensics showing Philip what about it?
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yeah, it's it's it is just that it's a digital footprint.
It what's her there? Nobody goes anywhere without their phone.
It's like a woman's purse. You don't let it out
of your sight. So no grandeur or let alone a
childer is going to buy the fact that the phone
wasn't on her. And yeah, the girl must be terrible.
She's petrified for a couple of reasons. Number one, she
(31:03):
doesn't want to get arrested, she doesn't want to get implicated,
and she doesn't know immunity from apple butter. She doesn't
even know the right lingo to use.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
She's got a lawyer, yes, she does well.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Okay, then hopefully that lawyer is in fact invoking her
rights so that nothing criminally happens. Now, the question I
think that the grand jury will have is whether or
not other people were involved in the crime.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
David Anthony Burg is being investigated as a suspect.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
In the death of teen girl Celeste.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
He has not been cooperative throughout the investigation. To Alexis Tereshak,
Crime Stories investigative reporter, the Medical Examiner's Office is at
war with the LAPD. It's very rare that that happens.
Usually they are in lockstep. What's happening. Why has LAPD
(31:58):
told the medical examiners to shut their pie hole?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
They believe that they are releasing too much information and
that this is knowing to affect the case, affect the
specific details whether or not she was actually completely dismembered,
whether she was decapitated or not. They don't want any
of this information out there because this would be showing
the people that are involved what they have, and they
don't want the public knowing and getting involved in all
(32:26):
of this. But the Medical Examiner's Office has been talking,
so there are conflicting stories out there. Was she dismembered,
was she frozen? Was she decapitated? Each side is trying
to keep the wraps on this, but the LAPD is
very mad that these details are coming out.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Joining me, Doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner, Ran County.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
That's fort Worth.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
Medicine at TCU and the star of a hit podcast,
Mayhem in the Morgue, Doctor Kindle Crowns, thank you for
being with us. There's a lot made of whether Celeste
Rivas was frozen. Okay, we know from just common sense.
(33:09):
Let's see the tesla belonging to David Anthony Burke D
FOURVD sitting in the mpound lot. It sat there for days,
doctor Kendall Crowns, from our forends at KTLA. Now, given
that amount of time plus the amount of time it
sat out on the sidewalk, it sat out on the
(33:31):
sidewalk on the street, and that ritzy neighborhood millionaire mansions
for days and days being shouldled from one spot.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
To the next.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So doctor Kendall Crowns, by the time her body was
found in the car in the mpound lot, she had
been dead for days and days and days decomposing.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
In a trunk.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Given that fact scenario, which we know to be true,
doctor Kendall, could you still tell whether she had ever
been frozen.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I accept what the LAPD says.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
She was not frozen or partially frozen at the time
she was found.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
That photo was.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Showing you of the chazla with her body in it
there at the impounds from our friends at KTLA.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But could you, as a.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Medical examiner look at her body tissues under a microscope
and tell if she ever had been frozen.
Speaker 11 (34:29):
So when bodies freeze, you can actually get formation of
ice crystals and the body becomes hard as a rock
because the majority of our tissues are made up of water.
So if you get below freezing, the body becomes an
ice cube. But once it thaws out, there's really no
changes that happen if the freezing occurred after death that
(34:50):
you can look at and go, this body was frozen,
unless there's still ice crystals in the heart or in
any other blood vascular areas. Other than that, there'd be
no way to tell if she was frozen and then
thought out and then you know, dumped. But if she
had been alive and frozen, there are changes there but
not after death.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Trying to digest what you just said. I believe you
said if she was totally thought out, which obviously she was,
there's no way to tell if she ever was frozen.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Okay, you don't get freezer made, got it.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
A lot has been made as to whether she was decapitated,
but doctor Kimball crowns, no one is opposing the fact
that she was dismembered. Typically, when I've had a case
where a body was dismembered, the hands and the head
(35:52):
are cut off to avoid identification. In this case, if
she was that decomposed, how would the identification have been made?
Speaker 11 (36:08):
So if they dismembered her to try and get rid
of evidence of identification, like you said, of course the
hands with the fingerprints. The head is for facial identification,
but you can't get rid of the DNA. Even if
you drain the body completely of its blood, you can
still get blood smears from the spleen or the muscle
(36:28):
or things of that nature, and then you take that
DNA from those organs, and then you do a comparison
with the family, and you can still identify the person,
whether there's a head or hands or not. Even if
it was just a section of the leg, like they
only found a foot. You could still do a swab
of the tissues in that area, usually musculature, and get
(36:49):
a DNA sample to do a comparison with known family members.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Doctor Kendall Crown's. Isn't it true that even if a
body is dried.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Out, almost mummified, you could get DNA from bone marrow
or from the inside of a tooth, or you could
take a body part such as the liver, blend it,
liquefy it and get DNA from that.
Speaker 11 (37:17):
Yes, that's correct. All those are scenarios in which an
individual has gotten to the point that they're mummified or
dried out, you can still get DNA from them. Bone
marrow is a great one because the femur or the
big bone in your thigh still has plenty of bone
marrow in the ribs as well. The teeth. What you're
talking about is the pulp of the teeth is still
(37:38):
very that it can be present for a long period
of time. It's a good source for DNA. And then
finally blending up the tissue. We usually use the spleen
because it's so vascular. You can get a lot of
blood from it, even in a mummified state, but you
can use the liver or other organs if they're more intact.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
That photo we're showing you of the Chasla with her
body in it there at the impound, it's from our
president KTLA.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace and doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
A law has been made that the LAPD and the
Medical Examiner's Office is at war.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
The medical examiners.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
All medical doctors like yourself do not take kindly to
the PD, telling them.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
To shut the hay up.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
But the truth is, doctor Kendall Crowns, we don't know
if these leaks have come from the Medical Examiner's office,
Isn't it true? Medical examiners in large much Politan areas
have a fleet of their own investigators.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Atlanta did. In fact, some of.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
The best investigators I ever knew were from the Medical
Examiner's office. Elite could come from a medical examiner investigator,
It could come from somebody making copies of documents. It
could come from someone within the LAPD about the Medical
Examiner's reports. And therefore people think the leak is coming
(39:12):
from the Medical Exammer's office.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
There's really no way to identify who's leaking.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
But the medical Exammer's office is the one that's being spanked.
Speaker 11 (39:21):
That's correct. I mean the medical exammer's offices usually have
their own set of death investigators so they can do
an unbiased death investigation and not rely on police information
to determine cause and manner of death. But usually big
offices have upwards of over one hundred people, and big
cases like this that information people can talk about it
(39:43):
the death investigators, the autopsy technicians, the doctors themselves, and
information can get out in the public. But you're correct,
the police also can be guilty of leaking this information
because they get the file as well, and they are
another large organization with multiple people, and people talk and
this information gets out there. That's the problem with high
profile cases is they always create high profile problems because
(40:07):
so many people want to know the information and people
love to talk about, oh, guess what I saw at
work today. So you have to be very careful in
these situations about what you say to whom, and you
have to keep your mouth shut. And if the police
is telling the medical examiner's office to shut up, well
you got to do what you're told and You've got
to work as a team because they have to do
(40:28):
their investigation, and if we leak information, it can actually
color and bias the entire investigation and cause a lot
of problems.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Philip Dubay, high profile lawyer, loose lips sink ships. Just
like that witness, the record exec goes out in the hall,
starts whining. Someone could have been having a beer, and
somebody ever hears what they said talking about Hey, guess
what happened in the Medical Examiner's office today. Guess what
I read in this report that I copied. It could
(40:58):
be anybody that's blabbing. It doesn't have to be a
paid informant, it doesn't have to be official. Anyone could
be leaking this information, of.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Course, and that's usually how it happens. We see it
in the coroner's office. We've seen it in the DA's office,
and frankly, we've even seen it in the public Defender's
office over the years, where somebody sort of casually mentioned
something and before you know it, you know, it becomes,
you know, like this big, huge story and it takes
on a life of its own, and then before you
(41:28):
know it, it's it's taken.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Out Caber Philip Imbricaber.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yes, somebody blabbed and suddenly it was a dateline special.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
I know, and the court opened up a special investigation.
They were going to get to the bottom of it.
And I think the only reason why they let it
go is twofold Number one. He pled so the case
was over. But number two, I think under Idaho law,
even if you do get to the bottom of it,
it was only a misdemeanor to invest all this money
in a misdemeanor. It just wasn't costing.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Don't know why you keep saying that it's not.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
You're in sitting in jail an arrest to go down
in the D four VD David Anthony Burke case, as
I like to call it, the Celestia Rev's case, a
witness refusing to testify.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Why what does she know? Rob Dick has a theory.
Speaker 9 (42:15):
What I think it's not so much worried about going
to jail. I think it's worried about what she's seen
the same thing happening to her. I mean, it's a
possible fear in her own self. She could end up
like that, you know.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Let me follow up on one investigator private investigator Rob
Dick said.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Afraid it's going to happen to her.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Well, you know what, she wasn't afraid to go along
for the ride to for instance, Lin with the mansion,
be on the dole, eat out at fancy restaurants, go
to concerts.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Afraid of what you know.
Speaker 7 (42:50):
Nancy, she's complicit in some way. When witnesses do not
want to come forward, it's usually because they have played
a role in the crime. Maybe it's just a silent witness, right,
Maybe it's just somebody watching Celeste being abused. But she
saw something, and you know, you know the term house
(43:12):
of horrors. We're talking about homicide here, we're talking about
a dismembered body in a front But what we're not
talking about is the house of horrors. What was going
on in that household up to this homicide and this dismemberment.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
Were women being used as sex slaves? Were women being dominated?
Were some women dominating other women? Were people using drugs together,
We're people watching sadistic pornography together and then you know,
sadistically hurting each other. We don't know what was happening
in that house. And I think that's going to be
(43:50):
really important for us to uncover as this trial moves forward.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
So, in other words, doctor Bethany, another person stands by
and watches what's happening to Celeste and does nothing. Let
me remind everybody, So Lest's just thirteen years old when
this whole thing cranked up with David Anthony Burke. She's dead, dismembered,
(44:16):
turning into nothing but go. And someone doesn't want to testify. Really,
someone that potentially stood by and.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Watch all this happen and did nothing. That person, Befany.
Speaker 7 (44:32):
You know, Nancy, I'm a mandated reporter as a marriage, family,
and child counselor, and it's a psychoanalyst. If I see
something that's being done to a minor or to a child,
I have to report that, not I don't have to
investigate it. I just report this suspicion that something is happening.
We have all these people in that household seeing i'm
sure pretty terrible things going on, and not one person
(44:57):
is calling the police.
Speaker 5 (44:58):
Not one person is called. No one person is talking
to Celeste.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
What about her parents?
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Did any of these witnesses call her parents?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
No?
Speaker 5 (45:08):
Everybody is just standing by silent.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
You can run, but you can't hide. That female prosecutor
knows you. Your name, your DOB, your SSN, Social Security number,
your address, your mama's name, your brother's name, your boyfriend's name.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
Your tag number. Go ahead, go in, go under oath
and tell the truth.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
A little girl is dead and you're refusing to testify,
and you know another thing to D four D David
Anthony Burk's manager.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Shame on you.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
You actually said out in the courthouse hall that you
didn't have any duty to call and report a dead
girl in a trunk. All you wanted to do was
continue with the tour. You know what, conscious pilot, just
washing your.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Hands and looking the other way. It ain't working this time.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
If you know or think you know anything about the
brutal death of this little girl, ce Les Rivas, please
call LAPD two one three four eight six six eight
nine zero.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
There will be justice in this case. Two one three
four eight six six' eight nine.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Zero you can either get involved be a part of the,
solution or you can stand back and do nothing and
be part of the. Problem tonight we remember An american,
Hero Officerjesus corona Of POLLIER, Pd, california just twenty nine
killed in the line of, duty leaving behind his wife
(46:56):
and a little. Girl An american, hero Officers
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Nancy, grace running off brid
Host
Nancy Grace
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