January 6, 2026 • 42 mins
Private investigator Steve Fischer tells Nancy Grace that a chainsaw was found in the home rented by D4vd, and the chainsaw was still unwrapped.
PI Steve Fischer claims he also found a "burn cage" inside the home rented for Burke by his manager. Employed by the property owner to determine what took place in his house, Fischer uncovered items still in their original packaging that were unused.
The incinerator is illegal in Los Angeles, delivered to the residence under a fake name, and claims to reach a temperature of 1,600 degrees.
The LA police department Chief Jim McDonnell is remaining silent about the Burke investigation, saying public statements could "potentially jeopardize the case."
The LAPD obtained a court order to keep the medical examiner's full autopsy findings sealed to maintain the integrity of the investigation.
David Michael Burke will likely be indicted in connection with the death of 14-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Danny Rubin (Los Angeles) - Criminal Defense Lawyer and Founder of Rubin Law, PC
- Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Steve Fischer - Missing Persons Private Investigator, Search & Rescue Specialist, & Owner of Search Investigations (he has been hired by the owner of the Hollywood Hills property where D4vd had been staying to look into this case); Facebook: SearchInvestigations, X: @SF_Investigates
- Brian Fitzgibbons - Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, Leads a team of Investigators Specializing in Locating Missing Persons; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security; Former Marine and Iraq War Veteran
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," Host of "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Instagram @JoScottForensic
- Melissa McCarty - Investigative Journalist, Author of “The Confident Voice: Speak with Calm, Clarity and Connection" and "The Making of a Crime Reporter;" Instagram: MelissaMcCarty1
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
D four VD aka David Alan Burke whines he has
money woes.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Boo hoo, this is.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
A grand jury homicide indictment. Looms timing, timing, timing. A
home incinerator found still in.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
The box at D four vd's home.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Was it purchased at the time of Celeste's death? I'm
Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank
you for being with us. David is finally being considered
as a suspect in the death teen girls. Celeste found
decomposing in his vehicle.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Was she dimembered? Was she frozen?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Was she decapitated?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
What was going on in that household up to this comicide?
In the last hours, we learned that LAPD is focusing
in on the time a home incinerator was purchased, straight
out to Professor Forensicks Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
(01:18):
Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit
podcast Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Jo Scott, thank you
for being with us tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
A home andcinerator? I mean, who has a home and cinerator?
Have you seen those things? They're huge? They're huge. Why
do you need a home incinerator.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Yeah. The fact that there is a burn cage that's
even being alluded to here, Nancy, is quite quite fascinating.
And here's why. A burn cage can burn up to
sixteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, Nancy. That's in the same neighborhood
as an actual prematory, all right. With a crematory which
works on natural asked, it has to be sustained for
(02:02):
about two to three hours. That can render down an
entire human remain, all right, If that's the goal here
with this thing, there are actually cases out there where
burn pages have in fact been used to render down
human remains. I'm not saying that that's what's involved here,
but the fact that there is one input close proximity
to where is certainly from an investigative standpoint very compel.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Joining us now, the man who actually first sees the
home incinerator and the mansion of David Burke D four
VD joining me right now is a now renowned private investigator,
Steve Fisher. Steve, I know that you were hired by
(02:47):
the owner of the D four VD mansion to find
out what the hay was going on inside the mansion
after Celeste's body is found. Where did you see a
h home incinerator?
Speaker 6 (03:02):
The home in cinerator was actually inside the house. It
wasn't even in the garage, and it was still packaged.
But it's a fifty five pound you know device and
which serves over at that house and so immediately raised,
you know, huge alarm bells with us, and you know,
especially considering found in the tesla, and you got to
(03:23):
wonder what the plans were ultimately to maybe get rid
of permanently.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I got a question for you, Stave Fisher.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You state that the home incinerator was still packaged.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Did you take photos of it?
Speaker 7 (03:35):
Yes? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Do you know what kind of incinerator it is? The
name brand?
Speaker 6 (03:41):
Yeah, it's made by a company called doctor Burn, and you
know their whole advertisement is that it burns at sixteen
hundred degrees and you know human cremations are done at
fourteen hundred degrees. So this is meant to you know,
reduce things including animal carcasses and whatnot, and.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
This is something you would typically find out a farm.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, I've got a question for you.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Why are you saying it's used for animal carcasses. I'm
not saying that it's not, but did you see anything
on the package to.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Inform you of that.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
So as soon as we found it on the outside,
he clearly says doctor Burne. And we went right to
their website and they're advertising and other people that you
know using it on YouTube.
Speaker 7 (04:33):
It shows that that that's what it's for. Now.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
It's not just right now, carcases, concenterate literally anything. But
this is something that's not even legal in the Hollywood
Hills because the fire ordinances and whatnot. And then you know,
we also found it, you know, with the with the chainsaw,
and so you know, there's just a lot of questions
and it just it's a horrible look, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So let me understand Stea. Fisher, hired by the.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Owner of Burke's mansion where he was renting it. You
find a home and centerator. What I find very critical
two things. If you go to the as you're calling it,
Doctor burn it's dr.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Original burn Cage.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
There are YouTube videos about burning animal carcasses. So if
I looked up home and senerator to burn carcas.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
That would pop up curious. So right there, and I'll
circle back.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
To you, Brian Fitzgibbons, there needs to be a full
on digital search as to whether that query was ever
typed into anybody's phone, laptop, iPad.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
You name it. But okay, so I know that pops up.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
But what I find very critical, Steve, is the date
of the purchase.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
For instance, let me just throw this at you.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You remember Brian Coburger, of course, who goes on Amazon
and buys a dagger, a k bar knife that was
used to murder for innocent University Idaho students, and his
Amazon search was uncovered and the purchase and where he
looked to buy a replacement after the murders. We know,
(06:23):
for instance, Coltmam Laurie Valo goes onto Amazon and buys
a wedding dress, a groom's outfit, and a ring before
her new husband's wife is killed. You know, Amazon is
a beautiful thing. So I'm curious, Steve Fisher, when the
(06:44):
burn cage was purchased. We've heard about the burning cage.
What we haven't heard about is what does it prove?
Is it probative? It was still in the package, It
wasn't used to destroy her body. But if I can
draw nexus between the time of her day and the
time that burn cage was purchased.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I got something. What about it, Fisher?
Speaker 6 (07:06):
Yeah, So we don't have the exact date, but it
just so happened that on January nineteenth, the owner had
an inspection done of the house was very thorough with
photographs at that time. We know that the burn age
was not at the house in January nineteenth, and so
sometime between the nineteenth and you know when the search
(07:29):
won't happened in September is when this arrived. And you know,
it's also around the time that the new tesla arrived
on February first. So there seemed to be a lot
happening at the end of January, beginning of February, but
as of January nineteenth it was not there, but after,
you know, as of September it was there. So it
(07:50):
appears it was ordered between those dates.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay, joining me as I said an All Star panel, Scott,
You've got a question for Fisher.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Scott.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I got to warn you about one thing, Joe Scott.
Isn't it true, Steve Fisher that you were called in
front of the grand jury?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Can you confirm that.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
I can't say anything about or in jury?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Okay, Well, if you had not been called, you would
have said no, So I'm going to take that as
a yes. You know, I've got a funny feeling that
the prosecutor is going to be extremely irritated with you
because you found evidence that the LAPD had not found yet.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And I'm referring.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Specifically to the tesla with the dead body in the
trunk of a little girl, Celeste Rivus. You found that,
and you scoured the neighborhood and got the ring doorbell
cam in the surveillance camp and could show that the
car was being moved around the neighborhood so nobody would
complain it's parked out in front of their house. You
even caught one of the drivers face. You still haven't
(09:01):
revealed to me who that is. And LAPD or the
DA's office didn't find any of that.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So I guess he's a little ill with you right now.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
That said, I have a source telling me you were
called in front of the grand jury. Whether you confirm
it or deny it, okay, Joe Scott, The point being
he may not be able to answer some of our questions, but.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Have at it.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
No, I'll try to make it as general as possible. Hey, Steve,
Joseph Scott Morgan, I got a question for you. I've
been through this area before only as a tourist. I
could never afford, you know, to you know, even know
anyone there high dollar area. If you rent a place
up there, it would seem odd that it would be
a come incumbent upon that person to do their own
(09:46):
landscaping work. And I'm fascinated about this chainsaw and this
idea that I'm sure the shrubs are lovely, are you
you know? And you've got this from what I'm understanding,
unopen chain saw there. What would be the purpose of
someone happiness thing? And when did it show up?
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Well, so you nailed it exactly because I've heard some
people say that, well, you know, people have chainsaws to
do yardwork and trim trees. This was a rental that
the owner was completely in charge of all the maintenance
including the pool, you know, the tree trimming, everything that
(10:26):
this was plug and play. They they didn't have to
do any of their own yard works. So there's no
reason for it to be there. And it showed up
again after January nineteenth. It was not there because there
was photo documentation of that walkthrough and inspection and now
one inspection, so it showed up after, you know, between
(10:47):
you know, the time in the search January nineteenth and
the time the search warrant. But you're absolutely right, there's
they're they're not responsible for any of that maintenance. And
I can't think of any reason that they would need
to chainsaw.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Joining us now, Melissa McCarty, investigative journalist and author of
the Making of a Crime Reporter, Melissa, thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
You have a question for Fisher, go ahead, I do
hasty have.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Two questions for you. One is who were the two
items addressed to? Was it the owner of the house
or somebody else? And also, it's my understanding the LAPDD
they did not take those items as evidence, But do
you know if there was any kind of brushing of
fingerprints to see if David or somebody else in his
inner circle at one point laid their hands on those
(11:32):
boxes or collected those boxes touched them to link the
two Very good question.
Speaker 7 (11:39):
So they did not take the items.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
We contacted them and asked them specifically about it, and
they told us that they photographed them, but they did not.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
Fingerprint them.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
And you know, there was no dustrating or on them,
and they didn't appear to illumine all them either because
they hadn't been removed from the packaging, so as in
as far as they were addressed to, they were addressed
in a fake name, somebody.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
That did not live at the residence.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
But they accepted the packages at the residence, and we believe,
just from the investigation, we'd be able to do that.
They used prepaid gift cards to purchase the Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Whoa wha wait wait wait wait, you're giving me all
new information.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Wait a minute, are you telling me? Have you told
anybody else this? Are you telling me?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The home incinerator was addressed to a fake name, but
somebody in that house accepted the package?
Speaker 7 (12:42):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Correct? How do you know that? Did you see the name?
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
What was the name? How do you know it was fake?
Speaker 6 (12:55):
Well, when I say fake name, it is it's somebody
that does not live at the residence.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
It's the name of a female that does not live
at the residence.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Yeah, they accepted, they signed for the package through DHL.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Oh, I'm learning so much right now.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Okay, so this guy did not go run down to
home depot and.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Buy a home incinerator.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
That means somebody went online Steve Fisher and ordered it
would you agree.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
Absolutely, And I'm sure those records are very subpoenable.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Danny Ruben joining me right now, veterman criminal defense attorney,
founder of the Ruben Law Firm. Danny, thank you for
being with us tonight.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I was ill.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I was getting a chest pain that was radiating up
into my teeth when I was hearing Steve Fisher talking
about Nope, they did not seize the home incinerator, they
did not seize the chainsaw, they did not fingerprint them,
they did not illumin all them. I mean, that's bad,
bad police work right there, that they just took pictures
(13:59):
of them, because you know, juries they want to look
at it, they want to touch it, hold it, feel it,
smell it, the whole shebang. But then I was heartened
when I heard him say it was sent to a
fake name, to somebody that doesn't live there, to this address,
and it was accepted by someone in that home, which
(14:20):
tells me there is a digital trail. Danny Rubert, it
proves a lot.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
I mean, what it can prove is the account that
ordered it. It doesn't necessarily prove who ordered it. I
mean when I look at a case like this, I
look at who's got the most to lose here. David
had to know that if he is the one that
would be culpable for this, he'd be the first one
to be looked at. My question is who's the second
(14:52):
or who's the third? That's the person I'd want to investigate.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
As his defense attorney, you would want to investigate them
to what.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Just let's pretend from moment that you're David Anthony Burke's lawyer.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You want to look at everybody around him.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So let's just be real here, so you can pull
a sood some of the dude did at defense. So
you're looking around at everybody else? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Just be straight?
Speaker 8 (15:16):
Well, my question is what if someone else actually did
do it? I mean, his two managers are around him
all the time. They're the ones that are economically invested.
Robert Morgan Roth was actually, as far as I've read,
called to testify at the grand jury and he was
recorded saying, why didn't I call the police? Yes, the manager?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Okay, so you know they tried and it worked. In
the top mom Casey Anthony murder case, when she got
her mother sending Anthony to go on the stand under
oath and fall on her sword and take the blame
for the highly damning searches for how to make chloroform.
(15:58):
She said that she vote chlorophyll, not chloroform, and that
the computer spell checked her because she wanted to get
rid of bamboo in the backyard and made it no
sense at all. That said, it worked in that case,
so I can't poo poo it that quickly. Brian Fitzgibbons
is joining US now Director Operations usp A Nationwide Security Brian,
(16:26):
you also, in your search for people all around the world,
are an expert at digital forensics.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Brian.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
What should they be doing right now to determine who
ordered the burncage?
Speaker 9 (16:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (16:44):
I want to applaud Steve Fisher Nancy in the work
that he's gone and identifying that these the purchase was
made with these gift cards, that it was delivered to
a fictitious name or a name that wasn't at the residence.
You know, this is going to provide investigators with a
good foothold to begin that forensic search and subpoena these
(17:09):
purchase records of what date this burn cage was purchased on,
what IP addressed was the system access. They're going to
be able to get quite a bit of information off
of that purchase, and I think that you will see
that provided that this most word to trial.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You brought up another issue, Brian Fitzgibbons, Thank you. I
was so taken by the fact that this was obviously
ordered online. I wonder they're going to be able to
find where the purchaser watched that YouTube video Fisher just
told us about how the home fire cage can't burn
dead carcasses. Question to you, Steve Fisher, owner, founder of
(17:53):
Steve Fisher SF Investigations, state, how do you know that
it was bought with gift cards?
Speaker 7 (18:00):
So I want to be clear.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
From what we've uncovered, it looks to us like it
was purchased with gift cards from you know, the communications
that we've had. I can't say that one percent for certain,
but it appears that that's how it was done. But
you know, we haven't.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Kind of gift cards place, say Amazon, what kind of
gift cards American Express home depot.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
Yeah, one of those you go to Target and buy
like a prepaid visa or amex or whatever, you know,
like that just something it doesn't have your name attached
to it, although you have to I guess technically register it,
but you can.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Again, you can use that in anybody's name.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
But I'll bet you that there is an email address
that they formed this person's name, this fake name so,
and then that'll probably reside on one of those computers,
and you know, I think they'll be able to tie
it all back to them. I don't think these are
geniuses by any means.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
You said that you can't say gift cards will us,
but that you have personally done. You and your team
have done investigations that lead you to believe that gift
cards were used. You're telling me the gift cards were
not to a specific store such as Home Depot or Lows.
You're telling me they were of the variety that you
can go to Target and get like American Express or
(19:17):
Visa gift cards.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Is that correct?
Speaker 7 (19:21):
Yes? Right, yes, which.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Leads me to believe that they were bought at Target.
Where they bought at Target?
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Oh, I honestly have no idea about that. I'm just
saying that, you know, like they're a seller of those.
I don't know where they bought the the gift cards at,
but they were delivered you know, through a you know
delivers like you order online, and it appears that they
use DHL to ship this you know item.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
To ship the gift cards, or to ship the burn cage, the.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Burn cage, the burn cage. So I think it's gonna
be fairly easy.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Karen Stark joining me, forensic psychologists, renowned TV radio trauma
expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. Oh what a tangled
web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Can't you just see?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know, there's going to be video, right, they have
cameras everywhere, specifically on the registers. Can't you just see
this merry troop flinking into a store and getting all
these gift cards, which is they think so sneaky because
it's not in their name. I wonder if they've paid
(20:39):
in cash or did they charge it?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Oh, I hope they charged it.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
At trying so hard to cover up, yet leaving a
trail a mile wide for somebody like Steve Fisher to find.
Speaker 11 (20:57):
It's very clear that these people were disorganized, Nancy. I mean,
nobody really understood that. How could you leave even the
body in a car and keep moving the car around
and not think that somebody would notice it, especially where
they were. And if you consider the fact that she
was dismembered, and then you also look at the fact
(21:20):
that someone ordered a chainsaw, somebody ordered this burn incinerator,
it's very telling that there was intent, or at least
it seems that way that they turned this body. It
was dehumanized and they were looking for any way. According
to me, it seems who get rid of the body
(21:43):
without even thinking about this as a person.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Back to Steve Fisher, following up on what Karen Stark,
psychologist said, Steve Fisher, isn't it true that d FORVD
aka David David.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Allenberg was going on tour?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So if Celeste was already dead, they wait and they
wait and they wait, and the home senerator doesn't show.
What they're like, Hell, you know, put it in the trunk.
That's going to be the argument. Of course, they're all
presumed innocent until proven guilty. So finally, you know what,
back up and punt and she ends up in the trunk.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Can't you just see that playing out? Fisher? Then the
incinerator comes a day late. The dollar short. She'd use
fat X, but no, they use DHL. What about it? Fisher?
Speaker 6 (22:34):
Yeah, personally, I think the incinerator was already there. I
think this became a case of them chickening out. You know,
they or whoever was supposed to do it didn't do it,
and then they just ran out of time. I mean
this and this is what baffles me about case. We're
talking about people that are perfectly idiots. And now, how
(22:57):
how is it taking to spenty months to be able
to put this case together to become chargeable because these
are not people that pulled off a perfect crime. And
this is the part that really baffles me is it's
so sloppy, yet there's apparently not enough to charge them yet.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
You know, I don't understand PI.
Speaker 12 (23:17):
Steve Fisher claims he found a burn cage, incinerator and
a chainsaw inside the home rented for Burke by his manager.
Employed by the property owner to determine what took place
in his house. Fisher uncovered the items still in their
original packaging and were unused. Incinerator is illegal in Los Angeles,
delivered to the residents under a fake name, and claims
(23:37):
to reach a temperature of one thousand and six hundred degrees.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
We don't even know really when Celeste was last seen alive.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I don't know how long she was dead for police
sources believe Celeste was killed back in the spring.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Her body found in his Tesla truck.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
She's dead, dismembered, turning into nothing but gow.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
At first we were told, oh, the grand.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Jury is just conducting an investigation. Not true anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Listen.
Speaker 12 (24:08):
A recent report said the grand jury hearing testimony about
the death of Celeste Reeves was an investigative grand jury
that helps gather evidence but does not indict. Now new
information indicates Burke will face murder charges for the death
of Celeste, and the grand jury hearing the case right
now is going to be asked to hand down an indictment.
(24:28):
An investigative grand jury can be useful to subpoena and
then force uncooperative witnesses to testify, and sources now say
the grand jury hearing witnesses is actually one that will
vote on indictments. And these sources indicate prosecutor Beth Silverman,
among others, believes Burke was involved in the death of Celeste.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So let me understand.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
To Dave mack joining US crime stories, investigative reporter, Dave,
we were first told this grand jury was just an
investigative grand jury that was gathering evidence on celeste death.
Now we're learning and indictment looms and it is a
homicide indictment. I never had any doubt that this grand
(25:10):
jury was going to seek charges.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Do I have that right, Dave?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Matt We're expecting a grand jury indictment to come down.
Speaker 9 (25:19):
That's what everything is pointing towards Nancy right now, expecting
an indictment to be handed down for homicide.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Danny Rubin, you have dealt with many, many grand jury indictments.
I don't know if you're a former prosecutor, but were
you a former prosecutor at any point?
Speaker 8 (25:35):
Danny, no defense attorney from the very beginning, but I've
dealt with the aftermaths.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Okay, I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Long story short, if the grand jury is meeting to indict,
not just investigate, that means they have to pick a charge, Ruben,
They've got to go with it. If it's homicide, murder one,
murder two volunteer or involuntary, and then of course there's
(26:02):
fell any murder.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
They've got to pick between those charges.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
They could indict in the alternative, which means a murder one,
with a murder two and a voluntary or even involuntary
all in the same indictment.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
So a jury can pick.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
So if they're going to go with murder one, go
with me, Ruben, go with me. That means they either
either got the cod from the body which was decomposed,
and they know there was either a gunshot wound, a
broken hyoid bone to suggest asphyxiation, something in toxicology.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
A knife nick to one of the bones. They've either got.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It from the body itself, or they've got a witness
to say she was murdered and this is what happened.
They've got to indict on those few choices. Murder one,
murder two, voluntary, involuntary. That's all the choices there are
for homicide. To do murder one or murder two, they
had to find something from the body or a witness.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
What do you think.
Speaker 8 (27:05):
I think if they had something from the body, they
would have been bringing charges a lot sooner. It seems
like if they're they're looking into indicting for homicide, whichever
one they picked, they probably got some information from a
witness that they questioned over the past month or two.
I know they're going to be calling back witnesses in February.
(27:26):
That's what I've read. So it seems like they're still
trying to find more evidence. But if they're looking to
switch that investigation now, it's probably because of something someone said,
possibly in conjunction with something they found on the body.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Dave Max, speaking of witnesses before the grand jury, isn't
it true that witnesses at least one has refused to come.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
To the grand jury? Isn't that true?
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Absolutely true, Nancy, And they've gone so far as to
threaten to arrest her if you won't come in.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Danny Rube, I'm just wondering. Let's just put together the
pieces here. Reuben, a witness, stated that she refused to
come to the grand jury. An order went out to
either bring her in, have her arrested, give her immunity
if she was facing charges herself.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Therefore, she would.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Have no reason to take the Fifth Amendment from the
grand jury or charge her with contempt. If you're a target,
you can be given immunity and forced to testify because
you have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent if
you're not going to be charged, or if you're just
a witness, you can be held in contempt and jailed
until you've testified. Okay, So that word goes out and
(28:45):
the next thing you know, an indictment is being handed down.
Sounds to me like they got the witness. The witness testified,
and now we're looking at a homicide indictment.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
That could be it.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
I mean, like I said before, it could be something
conjunction with what they found in the body. It could
be some combination of testimonies. But this is why we
have subpoena powers, because both the prosecution and defense, the
prosecution and grand jury defense at trial and preliminary hearing,
we need that to bring in witnesses who can testify,
(29:20):
and many times we can't get what we need without
those witnesses. So it's a very big stick that we
have to bring witnesses in that we need.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Danny Rubin, you have a question for Steve Fisher.
Speaker 8 (29:32):
Yeah, Steve, when you investigated the home where David was
purportedly living, was there anything else of note that you found,
anything still in its wrapper, anything that was looked like
it had not been taken out of its packaging.
Speaker 7 (29:50):
No, besides those two items.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
You know, there were some There was a couple full
respirators almost like gas masks at the house.
Speaker 7 (29:58):
But they were out of the package.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
Don't know exactly what they were for, but those were
the two, you know, most most damning things.
Speaker 7 (30:07):
For sure.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
There was a lot of stuff left behind that was
a value, such as the memory card with all the photos,
but nothing that really was like what would that be
doing here?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jackson State University,
Star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Joe Scott, we're learning a lot tonight. Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
We knew that there was a chainsaw, we knew that
there was a home incinerator.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
We didn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
That it had been purchased with gift cards anonymously and
that had been sent under a fake name. Now we
know that purchase can be traced and we can find out,
hopefully if there's a video, who bought the gift cards.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
And where and when?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
What does this mean to you forensically, what can we
prove with this new evidence?
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Well, I think certainly with the gift cards in particular,
because that is something that can be digitally traced. And
just let me remind everybody these gift cards can be
picked up anywhere. It doesn't have to be at a
big store. You can walk into a gas station and
buy these things. So, but the upside with.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Scott the location where the gift card. They're like, they
got numbers on them, like guns. For Pete's sake, you
can find the car.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Yeah, and it gets very and the digital evidence here
gets very granular, and so it's going to be very specific.
You can put a really tight pin in this thing. Also,
you know the initial purchase, the utility of these things,
and then you track along with the purchases that are made.
Now I'm going to use a term here, and I'm
sure you'll slap me down for saying this. I got
(31:52):
to tell you, Nancy, from a legal standpoint, the things
I've heard attorneys say in the past with these boxes
of open to items. When you think about the chainsaw
and this burn box and these sorts of things, this
almost smacks of like an incohatee of fence. I don't know.
I think i'd like to know your opinion of that.
(32:12):
But there's planning going on, perhaps if they can prove that,
and maybe there is intent, but they just couldn't complete
the act here, going back to what Steve had said earlier,
this seems like the I don't know, old reference here,
the Apple Dumpling Gang. They just can't get anything right.
They're just kind of falling on their faces. No one
(32:33):
can pull the trigger. There's not a leader. It's just
like they push this thing off in the ether and
maybe she'll just disappear. I don't know, because I got
to tell you, out of all the cases I've covered,
I've never seen anything. First off, take this long. You've
got a lot of elements here of movement with the
body going to Karen's point of disrespecting the remains to
this point, and then you have all these other elements
(32:57):
where no one could finish the job.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Okay, you refer to inco hate from the Latin verb
inco heir, which means in its inception, in its beginning,
just starting. So I see this if any of this
is borne out by the facts, and again David Bird
is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The beginning of the
(33:21):
destruction of the body went because the burn cage and
the chainsaw, and we do know she was dismembered. Where
you come in, they obviously did.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Not use the chainsaw.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Hey, Steve Fisher, was the chainsaw also still in the package?
Speaker 7 (33:38):
It had the protective shield over the blade.
Speaker 6 (33:41):
It wasn't in the n actual package, but it's but
it had the protective shield over it.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Okay, so it had never been used, which suggests that
it's new. And we keep talking about, hey, do you
do your own landscaping? Maybe obviously he didn't do his
own landscaping, but if he had a landscape that was
going to use that, I mean, that.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Could be a defense.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But it was never used, which suggests it also was
just bought and will probably be traceable. That said, in
co hate, I see it as evidence of destruction of
the body, tampering with a corpse, which is also a felony,
which is a separate offense from the homicide itself. I
(34:26):
think we're going to see a very involved and intricate
indictment which deals with the actual death of Celeste and
disposing of her body. And you're right, Joe Scott, the
attempt to get rid of her.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Body was in co hate.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It had just started and it's leaving a trail. The
cover up will likely be in disha proof of the crime.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Itself. Wouldn't you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Maybe they just got tired of waiting to get all
of the items, the burncake, the chainsaw, went just put
them in the trunk man.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that that's probably the case here.
There's also one more issue to this, and this is
rather gruesome. It's not that the rest of this hasn't been.
It's just that who's going to be who's going to join,
who's going to draw the short straw here, who's going
to put this cage together, which, by the way, is
very easy to assemble. Who's going to put the thing together?
(35:30):
And then who's going to finish up the process of
rendering down her body to the point where it's manageable
to go in here? And also they think, oh my lord,
this is going to create a smell that no one
is going to be able to escape.
Speaker 13 (35:44):
A second person has been linked to the death of Celestrevus.
Attorney Mark Erragos claims the suspects phone and social media
data was triangulated by LAPD homicide detectives to the spot
on the same time frame Revus died.
Speaker 14 (35:58):
They got a chart at LAPD that you would not believe.
They've got this thing down to a timeline that's almost
by the minutes triangulated to the location.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
If you can believe that.
Speaker 14 (36:12):
And it's not just one source. When I say triangulated,
it's media, social media, cell phone, tesla, other and I'll qualify.
All I'll say is other kind of GPS tracking devices
you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Harvey Levans to Angryman podcast with Mark Gergo's veteran defense attorney.
I mean Melissa McCarty joining us investigative journalist. All of
the people that lived in that home or were in
and out frequently can be identified. Fisher has video of
(36:53):
the person moving the tesla around the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
He knows who that is. He saw the face.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
He's not saying so, don't you know that what Garages
and Levin said is true.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
They've got it down to a timeline by the minute.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
You think any one of those D four VD cohorts
is going to go anywhere without their phone or their
Apple Watch or their NAV system in their car. Oh No,
they travel as a pack and they're all traveling together.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Melissa, Nancy, I think we're going to see more than
one person charged in this case. And that's what's so
great about the grand jury phase. To me, this comes
across as a case where a lot of people aren't forthcoming.
They don't want to talk, so you need subpoenas to
force them to get on the stance of Prosecutors can
lock in their theories, lock in their timelines, take all
(37:50):
of the digital forensic that they've been gathering since September
and really pieced together what they believe to be true.
So I think more than one person will be charged
at the end of the dayjury.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
What about it? Steve Fisher, why won't you tell me
who was driving that car?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I said in a previous on a previous evening that
I was misled. It was not misled by you. You're correct,
the cars moved this day and that date to this location,
that ocation we were basing. I was misled by our
own analysis that she was killed just she died just
before the car started moving. She could have been dead
(38:29):
much before that. She was placed in the car before
the car was moving. Now back to my query, why
aren't you telling.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
People who was moving the vehicle? I guess you testified
to that from the.
Speaker 6 (38:42):
Grand Ary.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 6 (38:53):
I'm not even sure grand jury is, but you know
the reason that the reason that I did is because
I don't want people if I did say that, I
don't want people to think that she was.
Speaker 7 (39:06):
Just killed like that.
Speaker 6 (39:06):
I believe that her death can go back as far
as January, and you know, this person I'm certain will
be held accountable. But I also don't want of something
so way to take it into their own hands, because
this is moving super slow and it's frustrating, and I
just think it's a safer, you.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Know, you know way to know why Steve Fisher, because
I think Melissa McCarty is right. I think a lot
of people are going to be charged, including You're possibly
named as unindicted co conspirators in order to get their testimony,
give them immunity to get them to testify.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
This as money woes rear their ugly head.
Speaker 12 (39:48):
EA Sports, the biggest name in sports video games, quietly
removes Burke's song what Are You Waiting For? From Madden
NFL twenty six, The legendary football game feeds 's the
soundtrack when released in August twenty twenty five, that positions
Burt's cut between Bia and Alex Warren on the playlist,
but now the song has vanished from the list. No
(40:11):
announcement explaining the reason behind the move.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Dave matt joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter. Is that
why we are hearing about boohoo?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Money woes?
Speaker 9 (40:21):
I think it's just the tip of the iceberg dance.
You remember when all of this started. He was on
his first worldwide tour. He was only two or three
days into it when everything broke and it stopped. This
was the end of the career. He had. No money's
been coming in since then, or at least it's not
nearly what it was. So yeah, money woes. Absolutely.
Speaker 6 (40:43):
So.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Every time somebody played Madden NFL twenty six, it's a
legendary football game, they would hear David Burk's song what
Are You Waiting For? It played every time somebody played
the game. Is that right, Dave mack.
Speaker 9 (41:00):
Well, they created a playlist of songs Nancy So Yes.
It was one of several kind of like on an album.
You know, you have several different artists on there.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Any yes please, could you just give me a yes?
No please?
Speaker 7 (41:10):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Okay, so yes, So every time that song is played,
D four v D makes Let's just pretend a dollar
a penny, that's a lot of money because that is
a huge, huge game in sports video games. He's lost
all that money, that's a tip of the iceberg. But
I think he's got bigger fish to fry than losing
(41:32):
money off Madden NFL twenty six. If you know or
think you know anything about this case, no matter if
you think it's insignificant, doesn't matter, please call homicide two
one three, four, eight, six, six, eight nine zero repeat
two one, three, four, eight, six, six eight nine zero
(41:53):
and Steve Fisher if you have to go back in
front of the grand jury, which you are neither denying
or confirming, I will make a cameo appearance as a
defense attorney and come represent you because I want to
be in that grand jury. Okay Fisher for free, pro bono.
And tonight we remember an American hero, Corporal Matthew Snuok,
(42:17):
Delaware police shot in the line of duty, leaving behind
wife turned widow and a daughter without her dad. American
hero Corporal Matthew Snuck Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
D four VD aka David Alan Burke whines he has
money woes.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Boo hoo, this is.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
A grand jury homicide indictment. Looms timing, timing, timing. A
home incinerator found still in.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
The box at D four vd's home.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Was it purchased at the time of Celeste's death? I'm
Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank
you for being with us. David is finally being considered
as a suspect in the death teen girls. Celeste found
decomposing in his vehicle.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Was she dimembered? Was she frozen?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Was she decapitated?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
What was going on in that household up to this comicide?
In the last hours, we learned that LAPD is focusing
in on the time a home incinerator was purchased, straight
out to Professor Forensicks Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
(01:18):
Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of a hit
podcast Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Jo Scott, thank you
for being with us tonight.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
A home andcinerator? I mean, who has a home and cinerator?
Have you seen those things? They're huge? They're huge. Why
do you need a home incinerator.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Yeah. The fact that there is a burn cage that's
even being alluded to here, Nancy, is quite quite fascinating.
And here's why. A burn cage can burn up to
sixteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, Nancy. That's in the same neighborhood
as an actual prematory, all right. With a crematory which
works on natural asked, it has to be sustained for
(02:02):
about two to three hours. That can render down an
entire human remain, all right, If that's the goal here
with this thing, there are actually cases out there where
burn pages have in fact been used to render down
human remains. I'm not saying that that's what's involved here,
but the fact that there is one input close proximity
to where is certainly from an investigative standpoint very compel.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Joining us now, the man who actually first sees the
home incinerator and the mansion of David Burke D four
VD joining me right now is a now renowned private investigator,
Steve Fisher. Steve, I know that you were hired by
(02:47):
the owner of the D four VD mansion to find
out what the hay was going on inside the mansion
after Celeste's body is found. Where did you see a
h home incinerator?
Speaker 6 (03:02):
The home in cinerator was actually inside the house. It
wasn't even in the garage, and it was still packaged.
But it's a fifty five pound you know device and
which serves over at that house and so immediately raised,
you know, huge alarm bells with us, and you know,
especially considering found in the tesla, and you got to
(03:23):
wonder what the plans were ultimately to maybe get rid
of permanently.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I got a question for you, Stave Fisher.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You state that the home incinerator was still packaged.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Did you take photos of it?
Speaker 7 (03:35):
Yes? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Do you know what kind of incinerator it is? The
name brand?
Speaker 6 (03:41):
Yeah, it's made by a company called doctor Burn, and you
know their whole advertisement is that it burns at sixteen
hundred degrees and you know human cremations are done at
fourteen hundred degrees. So this is meant to you know,
reduce things including animal carcasses and whatnot, and.
Speaker 7 (04:00):
This is something you would typically find out a farm.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, I've got a question for you.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Why are you saying it's used for animal carcasses. I'm
not saying that it's not, but did you see anything
on the package to.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Inform you of that.
Speaker 6 (04:19):
So as soon as we found it on the outside,
he clearly says doctor Burne. And we went right to
their website and they're advertising and other people that you
know using it on YouTube.
Speaker 7 (04:33):
It shows that that that's what it's for. Now.
Speaker 6 (04:34):
It's not just right now, carcases, concenterate literally anything. But
this is something that's not even legal in the Hollywood
Hills because the fire ordinances and whatnot. And then you know,
we also found it, you know, with the with the chainsaw,
and so you know, there's just a lot of questions
and it just it's a horrible look, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So let me understand Stea. Fisher, hired by the.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Owner of Burke's mansion where he was renting it. You
find a home and centerator. What I find very critical
two things. If you go to the as you're calling it,
Doctor burn it's dr.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Original burn Cage.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
There are YouTube videos about burning animal carcasses. So if
I looked up home and senerator to burn carcas.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
That would pop up curious. So right there, and I'll
circle back.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
To you, Brian Fitzgibbons, there needs to be a full
on digital search as to whether that query was ever
typed into anybody's phone, laptop, iPad.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
You name it. But okay, so I know that pops up.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
But what I find very critical, Steve, is the date
of the purchase.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
For instance, let me just throw this at you.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You remember Brian Coburger, of course, who goes on Amazon
and buys a dagger, a k bar knife that was
used to murder for innocent University Idaho students, and his
Amazon search was uncovered and the purchase and where he
looked to buy a replacement after the murders. We know,
(06:23):
for instance, Coltmam Laurie Valo goes onto Amazon and buys
a wedding dress, a groom's outfit, and a ring before
her new husband's wife is killed. You know, Amazon is
a beautiful thing. So I'm curious, Steve Fisher, when the
(06:44):
burn cage was purchased. We've heard about the burning cage.
What we haven't heard about is what does it prove?
Is it probative? It was still in the package, It
wasn't used to destroy her body. But if I can
draw nexus between the time of her day and the
time that burn cage was purchased.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I got something. What about it, Fisher?
Speaker 6 (07:06):
Yeah, So we don't have the exact date, but it
just so happened that on January nineteenth, the owner had
an inspection done of the house was very thorough with
photographs at that time. We know that the burn age
was not at the house in January nineteenth, and so
sometime between the nineteenth and you know when the search
(07:29):
won't happened in September is when this arrived. And you know,
it's also around the time that the new tesla arrived
on February first. So there seemed to be a lot
happening at the end of January, beginning of February, but
as of January nineteenth it was not there, but after,
you know, as of September it was there. So it
(07:50):
appears it was ordered between those dates.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Okay, joining me as I said an All Star panel, Scott,
You've got a question for Fisher.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Scott.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I got to warn you about one thing, Joe Scott.
Isn't it true, Steve Fisher that you were called in
front of the grand jury?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Can you confirm that.
Speaker 7 (08:13):
I can't say anything about or in jury?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Okay, Well, if you had not been called, you would
have said no, So I'm going to take that as
a yes. You know, I've got a funny feeling that
the prosecutor is going to be extremely irritated with you
because you found evidence that the LAPD had not found yet.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
And I'm referring.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Specifically to the tesla with the dead body in the
trunk of a little girl, Celeste Rivus. You found that,
and you scoured the neighborhood and got the ring doorbell
cam in the surveillance camp and could show that the
car was being moved around the neighborhood so nobody would
complain it's parked out in front of their house. You
even caught one of the drivers face. You still haven't
(09:01):
revealed to me who that is. And LAPD or the
DA's office didn't find any of that.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So I guess he's a little ill with you right now.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
That said, I have a source telling me you were
called in front of the grand jury. Whether you confirm
it or deny it, okay, Joe Scott, The point being
he may not be able to answer some of our questions, but.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Have at it.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
No, I'll try to make it as general as possible. Hey, Steve,
Joseph Scott Morgan, I got a question for you. I've
been through this area before only as a tourist. I
could never afford, you know, to you know, even know
anyone there high dollar area. If you rent a place
up there, it would seem odd that it would be
a come incumbent upon that person to do their own
(09:46):
landscaping work. And I'm fascinated about this chainsaw and this
idea that I'm sure the shrubs are lovely, are you
you know? And you've got this from what I'm understanding,
unopen chain saw there. What would be the purpose of
someone happiness thing? And when did it show up?
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Well, so you nailed it exactly because I've heard some
people say that, well, you know, people have chainsaws to
do yardwork and trim trees. This was a rental that
the owner was completely in charge of all the maintenance
including the pool, you know, the tree trimming, everything that
(10:26):
this was plug and play. They they didn't have to
do any of their own yard works. So there's no
reason for it to be there. And it showed up
again after January nineteenth. It was not there because there
was photo documentation of that walkthrough and inspection and now
one inspection, so it showed up after, you know, between
(10:47):
you know, the time in the search January nineteenth and
the time the search warrant. But you're absolutely right, there's
they're they're not responsible for any of that maintenance. And
I can't think of any reason that they would need
to chainsaw.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Joining us now, Melissa McCarty, investigative journalist and author of
the Making of a Crime Reporter, Melissa, thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
You have a question for Fisher, go ahead, I do
hasty have.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Two questions for you. One is who were the two
items addressed to? Was it the owner of the house
or somebody else? And also, it's my understanding the LAPDD
they did not take those items as evidence, But do
you know if there was any kind of brushing of
fingerprints to see if David or somebody else in his
inner circle at one point laid their hands on those
(11:32):
boxes or collected those boxes touched them to link the
two Very good question.
Speaker 7 (11:39):
So they did not take the items.
Speaker 6 (11:43):
We contacted them and asked them specifically about it, and
they told us that they photographed them, but they did not.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
Fingerprint them.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
And you know, there was no dustrating or on them,
and they didn't appear to illumine all them either because
they hadn't been removed from the packaging, so as in
as far as they were addressed to, they were addressed
in a fake name, somebody.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
That did not live at the residence.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
But they accepted the packages at the residence, and we believe,
just from the investigation, we'd be able to do that.
They used prepaid gift cards to purchase the Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Whoa wha wait wait wait wait, you're giving me all
new information.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Wait a minute, are you telling me? Have you told
anybody else this? Are you telling me?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
The home incinerator was addressed to a fake name, but
somebody in that house accepted the package?
Speaker 7 (12:42):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Correct? How do you know that? Did you see the name?
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
What was the name? How do you know it was fake?
Speaker 6 (12:55):
Well, when I say fake name, it is it's somebody
that does not live at the residence.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
It's the name of a female that does not live
at the residence.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Yeah, they accepted, they signed for the package through DHL.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Oh, I'm learning so much right now.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Okay, so this guy did not go run down to
home depot and.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Buy a home incinerator.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
That means somebody went online Steve Fisher and ordered it
would you agree.
Speaker 6 (13:22):
Absolutely, And I'm sure those records are very subpoenable.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Okay, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Danny Ruben joining me right now, veterman criminal defense attorney,
founder of the Ruben Law Firm. Danny, thank you for
being with us tonight.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I was ill.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I was getting a chest pain that was radiating up
into my teeth when I was hearing Steve Fisher talking
about Nope, they did not seize the home incinerator, they
did not seize the chainsaw, they did not fingerprint them,
they did not illumin all them. I mean, that's bad,
bad police work right there, that they just took pictures
(13:59):
of them, because you know, juries they want to look
at it, they want to touch it, hold it, feel it,
smell it, the whole shebang. But then I was heartened
when I heard him say it was sent to a
fake name, to somebody that doesn't live there, to this address,
and it was accepted by someone in that home, which
(14:20):
tells me there is a digital trail. Danny Rubert, it
proves a lot.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
I mean, what it can prove is the account that
ordered it. It doesn't necessarily prove who ordered it. I
mean when I look at a case like this, I
look at who's got the most to lose here. David
had to know that if he is the one that
would be culpable for this, he'd be the first one
to be looked at. My question is who's the second
(14:52):
or who's the third? That's the person I'd want to investigate.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
As his defense attorney, you would want to investigate them
to what.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Just let's pretend from moment that you're David Anthony Burke's lawyer.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
You want to look at everybody around him.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So let's just be real here, so you can pull
a sood some of the dude did at defense. So
you're looking around at everybody else? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Just be straight?
Speaker 8 (15:16):
Well, my question is what if someone else actually did
do it? I mean, his two managers are around him
all the time. They're the ones that are economically invested.
Robert Morgan Roth was actually, as far as I've read,
called to testify at the grand jury and he was
recorded saying, why didn't I call the police? Yes, the manager?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Okay, so you know they tried and it worked. In
the top mom Casey Anthony murder case, when she got
her mother sending Anthony to go on the stand under
oath and fall on her sword and take the blame
for the highly damning searches for how to make chloroform.
(15:58):
She said that she vote chlorophyll, not chloroform, and that
the computer spell checked her because she wanted to get
rid of bamboo in the backyard and made it no
sense at all. That said, it worked in that case,
so I can't poo poo it that quickly. Brian Fitzgibbons
is joining US now Director Operations usp A Nationwide Security Brian,
(16:26):
you also, in your search for people all around the world,
are an expert at digital forensics.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Brian.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
What should they be doing right now to determine who
ordered the burncage?
Speaker 9 (16:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 10 (16:44):
I want to applaud Steve Fisher Nancy in the work
that he's gone and identifying that these the purchase was
made with these gift cards, that it was delivered to
a fictitious name or a name that wasn't at the residence.
You know, this is going to provide investigators with a
good foothold to begin that forensic search and subpoena these
(17:09):
purchase records of what date this burn cage was purchased on,
what IP addressed was the system access. They're going to
be able to get quite a bit of information off
of that purchase, and I think that you will see
that provided that this most word to trial.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You brought up another issue, Brian Fitzgibbons, Thank you. I
was so taken by the fact that this was obviously
ordered online. I wonder they're going to be able to
find where the purchaser watched that YouTube video Fisher just
told us about how the home fire cage can't burn
dead carcasses. Question to you, Steve Fisher, owner, founder of
(17:53):
Steve Fisher SF Investigations, state, how do you know that
it was bought with gift cards?
Speaker 7 (18:00):
So I want to be clear.
Speaker 6 (18:02):
From what we've uncovered, it looks to us like it
was purchased with gift cards from you know, the communications
that we've had. I can't say that one percent for certain,
but it appears that that's how it was done. But
you know, we haven't.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Kind of gift cards place, say Amazon, what kind of
gift cards American Express home depot.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
Yeah, one of those you go to Target and buy
like a prepaid visa or amex or whatever, you know,
like that just something it doesn't have your name attached
to it, although you have to I guess technically register it,
but you can.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Again, you can use that in anybody's name.
Speaker 6 (18:37):
But I'll bet you that there is an email address
that they formed this person's name, this fake name so,
and then that'll probably reside on one of those computers,
and you know, I think they'll be able to tie
it all back to them. I don't think these are
geniuses by any means.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
You said that you can't say gift cards will us,
but that you have personally done. You and your team
have done investigations that lead you to believe that gift
cards were used. You're telling me the gift cards were
not to a specific store such as Home Depot or Lows.
You're telling me they were of the variety that you
can go to Target and get like American Express or
(19:17):
Visa gift cards.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Is that correct?
Speaker 7 (19:21):
Yes? Right, yes, which.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Leads me to believe that they were bought at Target.
Where they bought at Target?
Speaker 6 (19:28):
Oh, I honestly have no idea about that. I'm just
saying that, you know, like they're a seller of those.
I don't know where they bought the the gift cards at,
but they were delivered you know, through a you know
delivers like you order online, and it appears that they
use DHL to ship this you know item.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
To ship the gift cards, or to ship the burn cage, the.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
Burn cage, the burn cage. So I think it's gonna
be fairly easy.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Karen Stark joining me, forensic psychologists, renowned TV radio trauma
expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. Oh what a tangled
web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Can't you just see?
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You know, there's going to be video, right, they have
cameras everywhere, specifically on the registers. Can't you just see
this merry troop flinking into a store and getting all
these gift cards, which is they think so sneaky because
it's not in their name. I wonder if they've paid
(20:39):
in cash or did they charge it?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Oh, I hope they charged it.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
At trying so hard to cover up, yet leaving a
trail a mile wide for somebody like Steve Fisher to find.
Speaker 11 (20:57):
It's very clear that these people were disorganized, Nancy. I mean,
nobody really understood that. How could you leave even the
body in a car and keep moving the car around
and not think that somebody would notice it, especially where
they were. And if you consider the fact that she
was dismembered, and then you also look at the fact
(21:20):
that someone ordered a chainsaw, somebody ordered this burn incinerator,
it's very telling that there was intent, or at least
it seems that way that they turned this body. It
was dehumanized and they were looking for any way. According
to me, it seems who get rid of the body
(21:43):
without even thinking about this as a person.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Back to Steve Fisher, following up on what Karen Stark,
psychologist said, Steve Fisher, isn't it true that d FORVD
aka David David.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Allenberg was going on tour?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So if Celeste was already dead, they wait and they
wait and they wait, and the home senerator doesn't show.
What they're like, Hell, you know, put it in the trunk.
That's going to be the argument. Of course, they're all
presumed innocent until proven guilty. So finally, you know what,
back up and punt and she ends up in the trunk.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Can't you just see that playing out? Fisher? Then the
incinerator comes a day late. The dollar short. She'd use
fat X, but no, they use DHL. What about it? Fisher?
Speaker 6 (22:34):
Yeah, personally, I think the incinerator was already there. I
think this became a case of them chickening out. You know,
they or whoever was supposed to do it didn't do it,
and then they just ran out of time. I mean
this and this is what baffles me about case. We're
talking about people that are perfectly idiots. And now, how
(22:57):
how is it taking to spenty months to be able
to put this case together to become chargeable because these
are not people that pulled off a perfect crime. And
this is the part that really baffles me is it's
so sloppy, yet there's apparently not enough to charge them yet.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
You know, I don't understand PI.
Speaker 12 (23:17):
Steve Fisher claims he found a burn cage, incinerator and
a chainsaw inside the home rented for Burke by his manager.
Employed by the property owner to determine what took place
in his house. Fisher uncovered the items still in their
original packaging and were unused. Incinerator is illegal in Los Angeles,
delivered to the residents under a fake name, and claims
(23:37):
to reach a temperature of one thousand and six hundred degrees.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
We don't even know really when Celeste was last seen alive.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I don't know how long she was dead for police
sources believe Celeste was killed back in the spring.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Her body found in his Tesla truck.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
She's dead, dismembered, turning into nothing but gow.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
At first we were told, oh, the grand.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Jury is just conducting an investigation. Not true anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Listen.
Speaker 12 (24:08):
A recent report said the grand jury hearing testimony about
the death of Celeste Reeves was an investigative grand jury
that helps gather evidence but does not indict. Now new
information indicates Burke will face murder charges for the death
of Celeste, and the grand jury hearing the case right
now is going to be asked to hand down an indictment.
(24:28):
An investigative grand jury can be useful to subpoena and
then force uncooperative witnesses to testify, and sources now say
the grand jury hearing witnesses is actually one that will
vote on indictments. And these sources indicate prosecutor Beth Silverman,
among others, believes Burke was involved in the death of Celeste.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So let me understand.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
To Dave mack joining US crime stories, investigative reporter, Dave,
we were first told this grand jury was just an
investigative grand jury that was gathering evidence on celeste death.
Now we're learning and indictment looms and it is a
homicide indictment. I never had any doubt that this grand
(25:10):
jury was going to seek charges.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Do I have that right, Dave?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Matt We're expecting a grand jury indictment to come down.
Speaker 9 (25:19):
That's what everything is pointing towards Nancy right now, expecting
an indictment to be handed down for homicide.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Danny Rubin, you have dealt with many, many grand jury indictments.
I don't know if you're a former prosecutor, but were
you a former prosecutor at any point?
Speaker 8 (25:35):
Danny, no defense attorney from the very beginning, but I've
dealt with the aftermaths.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Okay, I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Long story short, if the grand jury is meeting to indict,
not just investigate, that means they have to pick a charge, Ruben,
They've got to go with it. If it's homicide, murder one,
murder two volunteer or involuntary, and then of course there's
(26:02):
fell any murder.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
They've got to pick between those charges.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
They could indict in the alternative, which means a murder one,
with a murder two and a voluntary or even involuntary
all in the same indictment.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
So a jury can pick.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
So if they're going to go with murder one, go
with me, Ruben, go with me. That means they either
either got the cod from the body which was decomposed,
and they know there was either a gunshot wound, a
broken hyoid bone to suggest asphyxiation, something in toxicology.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
A knife nick to one of the bones. They've either got.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It from the body itself, or they've got a witness
to say she was murdered and this is what happened.
They've got to indict on those few choices. Murder one,
murder two, voluntary, involuntary. That's all the choices there are
for homicide. To do murder one or murder two, they
had to find something from the body or a witness.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
What do you think.
Speaker 8 (27:05):
I think if they had something from the body, they
would have been bringing charges a lot sooner. It seems
like if they're they're looking into indicting for homicide, whichever
one they picked, they probably got some information from a
witness that they questioned over the past month or two.
I know they're going to be calling back witnesses in February.
(27:26):
That's what I've read. So it seems like they're still
trying to find more evidence. But if they're looking to
switch that investigation now, it's probably because of something someone said,
possibly in conjunction with something they found on the body.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Dave Max, speaking of witnesses before the grand jury, isn't
it true that witnesses at least one has refused to come.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
To the grand jury? Isn't that true?
Speaker 9 (27:52):
Absolutely true, Nancy, And they've gone so far as to
threaten to arrest her if you won't come in.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Danny Rube, I'm just wondering. Let's just put together the
pieces here. Reuben, a witness, stated that she refused to
come to the grand jury. An order went out to
either bring her in, have her arrested, give her immunity
if she was facing charges herself.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Therefore, she would.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Have no reason to take the Fifth Amendment from the
grand jury or charge her with contempt. If you're a target,
you can be given immunity and forced to testify because
you have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent if
you're not going to be charged, or if you're just
a witness, you can be held in contempt and jailed
until you've testified. Okay, So that word goes out and
(28:45):
the next thing you know, an indictment is being handed down.
Sounds to me like they got the witness. The witness testified,
and now we're looking at a homicide indictment.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
That could be it.
Speaker 8 (28:58):
I mean, like I said before, it could be something
conjunction with what they found in the body. It could
be some combination of testimonies. But this is why we
have subpoena powers, because both the prosecution and defense, the
prosecution and grand jury defense at trial and preliminary hearing,
we need that to bring in witnesses who can testify,
(29:20):
and many times we can't get what we need without
those witnesses. So it's a very big stick that we
have to bring witnesses in that we need.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
Danny Rubin, you have a question for Steve Fisher.
Speaker 8 (29:32):
Yeah, Steve, when you investigated the home where David was
purportedly living, was there anything else of note that you found,
anything still in its wrapper, anything that was looked like
it had not been taken out of its packaging.
Speaker 7 (29:50):
No, besides those two items.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
You know, there were some There was a couple full
respirators almost like gas masks at the house.
Speaker 7 (29:58):
But they were out of the package.
Speaker 6 (30:01):
Don't know exactly what they were for, but those were
the two, you know, most most damning things.
Speaker 7 (30:07):
For sure.
Speaker 6 (30:08):
There was a lot of stuff left behind that was
a value, such as the memory card with all the photos,
but nothing that really was like what would that be
doing here?
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jackson State University,
Star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Joe Scott, we're learning a lot tonight. Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
We knew that there was a chainsaw, we knew that
there was a home incinerator.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
We didn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
That it had been purchased with gift cards anonymously and
that had been sent under a fake name. Now we
know that purchase can be traced and we can find out,
hopefully if there's a video, who bought the gift cards.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
And where and when?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
What does this mean to you forensically, what can we
prove with this new evidence?
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Well, I think certainly with the gift cards in particular,
because that is something that can be digitally traced. And
just let me remind everybody these gift cards can be
picked up anywhere. It doesn't have to be at a
big store. You can walk into a gas station and
buy these things. So, but the upside with.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Scott the location where the gift card. They're like, they
got numbers on them, like guns. For Pete's sake, you
can find the car.
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Yeah, and it gets very and the digital evidence here
gets very granular, and so it's going to be very specific.
You can put a really tight pin in this thing. Also,
you know the initial purchase, the utility of these things,
and then you track along with the purchases that are made.
Now I'm going to use a term here, and I'm
sure you'll slap me down for saying this. I got
(31:52):
to tell you, Nancy, from a legal standpoint, the things
I've heard attorneys say in the past with these boxes
of open to items. When you think about the chainsaw
and this burn box and these sorts of things, this
almost smacks of like an incohatee of fence. I don't know.
I think i'd like to know your opinion of that.
(32:12):
But there's planning going on, perhaps if they can prove that,
and maybe there is intent, but they just couldn't complete
the act here, going back to what Steve had said earlier,
this seems like the I don't know, old reference here,
the Apple Dumpling Gang. They just can't get anything right.
They're just kind of falling on their faces. No one
(32:33):
can pull the trigger. There's not a leader. It's just
like they push this thing off in the ether and
maybe she'll just disappear. I don't know, because I got
to tell you, out of all the cases I've covered,
I've never seen anything. First off, take this long. You've
got a lot of elements here of movement with the
body going to Karen's point of disrespecting the remains to
this point, and then you have all these other elements
(32:57):
where no one could finish the job.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Okay, you refer to inco hate from the Latin verb
inco heir, which means in its inception, in its beginning,
just starting. So I see this if any of this
is borne out by the facts, and again David Bird
is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The beginning of the
(33:21):
destruction of the body went because the burn cage and
the chainsaw, and we do know she was dismembered. Where
you come in, they obviously did.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Not use the chainsaw.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Hey, Steve Fisher, was the chainsaw also still in the package?
Speaker 7 (33:38):
It had the protective shield over the blade.
Speaker 6 (33:41):
It wasn't in the n actual package, but it's but
it had the protective shield over it.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Okay, so it had never been used, which suggests that
it's new. And we keep talking about, hey, do you
do your own landscaping? Maybe obviously he didn't do his
own landscaping, but if he had a landscape that was
going to use that, I mean, that.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Could be a defense.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
But it was never used, which suggests it also was
just bought and will probably be traceable. That said, in
co hate, I see it as evidence of destruction of
the body, tampering with a corpse, which is also a felony,
which is a separate offense from the homicide itself. I
(34:26):
think we're going to see a very involved and intricate
indictment which deals with the actual death of Celeste and
disposing of her body. And you're right, Joe Scott, the
attempt to get rid of her.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Body was in co hate.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
It had just started and it's leaving a trail. The
cover up will likely be in disha proof of the crime.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Itself. Wouldn't you agree with that?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Maybe they just got tired of waiting to get all
of the items, the burncake, the chainsaw, went just put
them in the trunk man.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Yeah, yeah, And I think that that's probably the case here.
There's also one more issue to this, and this is
rather gruesome. It's not that the rest of this hasn't been.
It's just that who's going to be who's going to join,
who's going to draw the short straw here, who's going
to put this cage together, which, by the way, is
very easy to assemble. Who's going to put the thing together?
(35:30):
And then who's going to finish up the process of
rendering down her body to the point where it's manageable
to go in here? And also they think, oh my lord,
this is going to create a smell that no one
is going to be able to escape.
Speaker 13 (35:44):
A second person has been linked to the death of Celestrevus.
Attorney Mark Erragos claims the suspects phone and social media
data was triangulated by LAPD homicide detectives to the spot
on the same time frame Revus died.
Speaker 14 (35:58):
They got a chart at LAPD that you would not believe.
They've got this thing down to a timeline that's almost
by the minutes triangulated to the location.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
If you can believe that.
Speaker 14 (36:12):
And it's not just one source. When I say triangulated,
it's media, social media, cell phone, tesla, other and I'll qualify.
All I'll say is other kind of GPS tracking devices
you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Harvey Levans to Angryman podcast with Mark Gergo's veteran defense attorney.
I mean Melissa McCarty joining us investigative journalist. All of
the people that lived in that home or were in
and out frequently can be identified. Fisher has video of
(36:53):
the person moving the tesla around the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
He knows who that is. He saw the face.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
He's not saying so, don't you know that what Garages
and Levin said is true.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
They've got it down to a timeline by the minute.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
You think any one of those D four VD cohorts
is going to go anywhere without their phone or their
Apple Watch or their NAV system in their car. Oh No,
they travel as a pack and they're all traveling together.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Melissa, Nancy, I think we're going to see more than
one person charged in this case. And that's what's so
great about the grand jury phase. To me, this comes
across as a case where a lot of people aren't forthcoming.
They don't want to talk, so you need subpoenas to
force them to get on the stance of Prosecutors can
lock in their theories, lock in their timelines, take all
(37:50):
of the digital forensic that they've been gathering since September
and really pieced together what they believe to be true.
So I think more than one person will be charged
at the end of the dayjury.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
What about it? Steve Fisher, why won't you tell me
who was driving that car?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I said in a previous on a previous evening that
I was misled. It was not misled by you. You're correct,
the cars moved this day and that date to this location,
that ocation we were basing. I was misled by our
own analysis that she was killed just she died just
before the car started moving. She could have been dead
(38:29):
much before that. She was placed in the car before
the car was moving. Now back to my query, why
aren't you telling.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
People who was moving the vehicle? I guess you testified
to that from the.
Speaker 6 (38:42):
Grand Ary.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 6 (38:53):
I'm not even sure grand jury is, but you know
the reason that the reason that I did is because
I don't want people if I did say that, I
don't want people to think that she was.
Speaker 7 (39:06):
Just killed like that.
Speaker 6 (39:06):
I believe that her death can go back as far
as January, and you know, this person I'm certain will
be held accountable. But I also don't want of something
so way to take it into their own hands, because
this is moving super slow and it's frustrating, and I
just think it's a safer, you.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Know, you know way to know why Steve Fisher, because
I think Melissa McCarty is right. I think a lot
of people are going to be charged, including You're possibly
named as unindicted co conspirators in order to get their testimony,
give them immunity to get them to testify.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
This as money woes rear their ugly head.
Speaker 12 (39:48):
EA Sports, the biggest name in sports video games, quietly
removes Burke's song what Are You Waiting For? From Madden
NFL twenty six, The legendary football game feeds 's the
soundtrack when released in August twenty twenty five, that positions
Burt's cut between Bia and Alex Warren on the playlist,
but now the song has vanished from the list. No
(40:11):
announcement explaining the reason behind the move.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Dave matt joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter. Is that
why we are hearing about boohoo?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Money woes?
Speaker 9 (40:21):
I think it's just the tip of the iceberg dance.
You remember when all of this started. He was on
his first worldwide tour. He was only two or three
days into it when everything broke and it stopped. This
was the end of the career. He had. No money's
been coming in since then, or at least it's not
nearly what it was. So yeah, money woes. Absolutely.
Speaker 6 (40:43):
So.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Every time somebody played Madden NFL twenty six, it's a
legendary football game, they would hear David Burk's song what
Are You Waiting For? It played every time somebody played
the game. Is that right, Dave mack.
Speaker 9 (41:00):
Well, they created a playlist of songs Nancy So Yes.
It was one of several kind of like on an album.
You know, you have several different artists on there.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Any yes please, could you just give me a yes?
No please?
Speaker 7 (41:10):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Okay, so yes, So every time that song is played,
D four v D makes Let's just pretend a dollar
a penny, that's a lot of money because that is
a huge, huge game in sports video games. He's lost
all that money, that's a tip of the iceberg. But
I think he's got bigger fish to fry than losing
(41:32):
money off Madden NFL twenty six. If you know or
think you know anything about this case, no matter if
you think it's insignificant, doesn't matter, please call homicide two
one three, four, eight, six, six, eight nine zero repeat
two one, three, four, eight, six, six eight nine zero
(41:53):
and Steve Fisher if you have to go back in
front of the grand jury, which you are neither denying
or confirming, I will make a cameo appearance as a
defense attorney and come represent you because I want to
be in that grand jury. Okay Fisher for free, pro bono.
And tonight we remember an American hero, Corporal Matthew Snuok,
(42:17):
Delaware police shot in the line of duty, leaving behind
wife turned widow and a daughter without her dad. American
hero Corporal Matthew Snuck Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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