February 4, 2021 • 38 mins
Fotis Dulos' former attorney may testify against the accused killer's former mistress. Michelle Troconis and former attorney Ken Mawhinney are co-defendants in the disappearance of Jennifer Dulos. Troconis, who was Fotis Dulos’ live-in girlfriend when Jennifer disappeared in May 2019, pleaded not guilty to the charges against her. Mawhinney, who appeared virtually in court on Tuesday, is facing a conspiracy charge. He, too, pleaded not guilty.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Randy Kessler - Atlanta Trial Lawyer, Emory Law School Professor, Past Chair ABA Family Law Section, Author: "Divorce, Protect Yourself, Your Kids and Your Future", www.KSFamilyLaw.com, Instagram: @rkessler23, Twitter: @GADivorce,
- Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga www.angelaarnoldmd.com
- Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network
- Laura Ingle - Fox News Senior Correspondent, Host of "Murder in Connecticut: The Jennifer Dulos Story" on Fox Nation, @lauraingletv
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
The missing Connecticut mom of five Jennifer Dulos body has
never been found. What are the grandparents supposed to tell
her children when they ask where's Mommy? The case ain't
over yet. In the last hours a bombshell. When I
(00:33):
say bombshell, I mean bombshell is husband Fotus Dulos, lawyer,
his alleged partner in crime, set to testify against his mistress.
Take a listen to this. It was a Friday morning
in late May, almost the end of the academic year,
(00:56):
when Jennifer Dulos dropped off her five children for school
surveyor let's camera show. She returned to her rented home
around eight o'clock, then vanished, we love you and we
are doing everything we can to bring you home. Hours later,
worried friends called the police after she missed several appointments.
Her disappearance sparked an intense search, stretching across state lines,
(01:17):
making headlines in the national news. New development in the
case of that missing mother of five overnight her a
strange husband speaking in a new interview. Her estranged husband
and his live in girlfriend appearing in karnt Coops immediately
start with the timeline and trying to figure out if
she left on her own, but then they discover her
(01:37):
SUV seemingly abandoned. Drones, canines and a helicopter scoured the area.
Her vehicle found near a wooden park. That's how it
all started. Yes, that's how it all started. When Jennifer
Dulos goes missing. And this is what we're learning today.
Take a listen to our friends at NBC Connecticut w
(01:58):
VI our cut two. According to schoen Horne, in the
ninety minute video, which has not been released publicly, Mlwinney
says that the day before Jennifer Dulos was reported missing,
he was at Photosdulos's Farmington home at for Jefferson Crossing.
He told this to state police Allegedly, according to Schoenhorne,
(02:18):
it was there that schoen Horn says Mulwinne alleges Dulos
and Traconis asked him to give them a fake alibi
for the next day when they plan to get rid
of Dulos as a strange wife Jennifer back in May
of twenty nineteen. Sean Horn also says that the next night,
Mwennie claims Dulos called him to tell him the deed
was done. Traconis's attorney says he's not surprised Mlwinnie would
(02:39):
try to implicate his client, and he doesn't believe the
state plans I'm moving forward with its case against him,
questioning Mwennie's credibility and motive. Schoenhorn has asked prosecutors to
release all versions of Mulwinne's statement, along with video surveillance
that shows how long he was with state police before
and after they recorded that interview, documentation regarding the decision
(03:00):
not to give him a polygraph task, and any communication
that took place about his possible cooperation. Again, our friends
at NBC Connecticut w v I with me and All
Star Panel to break it down and put it back
together again. What does it mean. I've never heard of
a defense attorney testifying against their own client, even when
(03:22):
that client has been sitting in jail pulling at straws
and claims their trial lawyer was ineffective. A lot of
times you'll see the trial lawyer take the stand and say, yeah,
I was ineffective, anything to help their client get a reversal.
What's going on in the case of Michelle Charconis. Chraconis
(03:43):
the lover of Potus Dulos at the time his wife
Jennifer goes missing. Joining me. Randy Kessler, high profile lawyer
joining me out of Atlanta Emory Law School, professor, past
chair of the ABA Family Law Section, author of Divorce
Protect Yourself, Off, your kids, and your future, and you
can find them at kas family Law dot com. Wow,
(04:07):
that was a mouthful and it's all true. Joining me,
also from Atlanta. Renowned psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold. You can
find her at Angela Arnold, MD dot com. Professor Forensics,
Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
starred a brand new hit series on the True Crime Network,
Poisonous lead aisons Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to special
(04:30):
guests joining us. Fox News senior correspondent, host of Murder
in Connecticut, the Jennifer Dulo story on Fox Nation, Laura ingletv.
Laura Ingle is joining me right now, Laura, does it
never end? First this twist, then that twist? Now this
what's happening? Iinancy, Well, you know all of this coming
(04:53):
around what is called a grim anniversary. Of course, we
have made the mark as we were doing our reporting
on January twenty ninth, That was the day that Fotus
Duellos had tried to take his life at his home.
He was supposed to be in court that day, so
that was just a year ago, and as we were
(05:13):
getting ready to mark that anniversary in check in the case,
You're right, a lot of activity has been happening with
the courts with these other two suspects in the case.
And we were able to speak to John Schoenhorn for
over an hour. John Schoenhorn is the attorney for Michelle Traconis,
look taking a look back at where we are with
(05:34):
this case and taking a look forward, and he of
course still maintains that Michelle Traconis Fotus's girlfriend at the
time of Jennifer Duelis's disappearance, maintains their innocence, but what
he told us in that interview. And then we saw
some new video just released this week from mister Schoenhorn
(05:55):
in court trying to get the charges dismissed. Some interrogation
video that happened shortly after Jennifer Duelos went missing, of
what he calls state investigators badgering his client, giving her
what he calls false information to get her to crack
(06:15):
and give information that he claims she simply does not
have lawn Angel. For those of us that I mean
following the case from beginning, we know all the names.
But for people that are just learning about Jennifer Dulos,
that missing Connecticut mom of five. She drops her children
off to school, eight am in the morning, she comes
back home, she goes. You see her heading into her home,
(06:39):
and then she's never seen alive again. Blood has been
found all over the home, including her blood and her
husband's blood. And then it seems like the mistress, Michelle
Traconis was along for the ride. Well, there's no such
thing as along for the ride under the law. Straight
out to you, Randy Kesser, Atlanta trial lawyer. If she
(07:01):
was in the car and she helped fotus due, I
was get rid of evidence the way that video seems
to purport, she's in and up to her eyeballs, she is.
But you know it's this lord's aggressive and I like
his style, and I like that he's putting it all
out there. You take every shot you can to get
your client off. I mean, he's exposing you know what
you're sounding. You sound like you're talking at um um
(07:22):
one of those singing competitions or the masked dancer or
dancing with the stars. Put it all out there, show
him what you've got. What are you talking about. This
is a murder case. Put it all out there. Well,
you know, he's asked the just to dismiss the charges.
He's going to ask the judge in the middle of
the trial to dismiss his client. He's gonna he's trying
to prep the judge, and he's showing you this interview tactic.
(07:45):
You know, where would you where would you bury a body? Well,
that's a trick question. If she says the right answer
that Ahashi knew it, because she did. And if she
doesn't cooperate, well she's not cooperative. I mean he's trying
to prejudice the trier of factor. She's the judge and
the jury. So anyway ses us knows, cass let me
understand this with me, high profile defense attorney, Mandy Caster.
You're saying he is trying to prejudice who will make
(08:10):
the decision. Who's he lay, Well, the lawyers, the prosecutor, No, no, no,
no no no, the defense lawyer. He's putting it out
there saying look at these videos, look at this interview
of her. They was harassing her. She's who's day, Who's
harassing her? The investigator? Okay, right, okay, Now I see
where you're going, Mandy Kester, Jimmy and I went to
(08:31):
wade through all that defense. Mumbo jumbo, you're now traming
the police. Investigators are confusing the mistress. Okay, with trick
questions climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking
(08:54):
about not only the disappearance and what I purport to
be the death of a missing mom of five, Jennifer
Dulos out of Connecticut, but now legal shananigans. Now, if
you got led down the garden lane by Randy Kessler,
he was trying to take me Jackie Joy the whole
pane along with him. What he's saying, Laura Ingland'm pretty
(09:16):
sure is that the prosecutors, the investigators, the detectives are
trying to trick the lover, the girlfriend Michelle Triconis into
saying where Jennifer dulos body has been hidden. Now, let's correct, everybody,
(09:37):
Laura Ingles, refresh recollections. Isn't it true? Laura, Laura joined
me Fox and New senior correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut
the Jennifer Dulo's story on Fox Nation that there is
video of potus duelos, the husband, the cheating husband, going
all over town, throwing out bloody clothes, these sponges, all
(10:01):
sorts of blood spattered evidence. It's Jennifer's blood on the evidence.
And in the car is none other than michel Ter
Konis on video right, that is on video. You don't
see her getting out on these surveillance videos. And it's
really interesting that he chose to go to Albany, which
(10:22):
is absolutely wired. There's a camera on every street corner
and it seems to be in every store, every alley
showing him getting out of the car and removing these bags. Now,
remember the outside of the bags contains Photostulus's DNA fingerprints,
of course, and they also say that they found a
couple of trace pieces of DNA of michel tercons on
(10:45):
the outside of those bags. And John Schoenhorn, her attorney,
told us last week that they police misrepresented the evidence.
It was only partial DNA, there weren't full fingerprints, he says.
But here's what's really interesting about our conversation with John Schoenhern,
the attorney for Michelle Traconas. Now he told us that
(11:06):
the police in these interviews and your other guests brought
up you know, the police asked her where would you
get rid of a body? That's on the tape. He
told us for the first time that in those interviews,
the state police told her in graphic term that Fota
Stulos murdered his wife, but then told Michelle Traconas falsely
that the garbage bags disposed of on Albany Avenue, which
(11:30):
is in Hartford, are filled with body parts. He says
that caused my client Michelle to freak out during interrogation,
get hysterical, crying, and he claims that the state police
are repeatedly lying to her in order to get her
to tell them what she knew. She said at least
a dozen times in that tape. He counted nineteen times
(11:50):
on the interrogation recordings that she says, I don't know anything.
I would tell you if I knew. She claims that
she was being badgered, that the police techniques that were
being used were illegal, that they were trying to just
work her over and get her all worked up. He said,
there's never been evidence of body parts, and to his point,
(12:11):
there have not been body parts sound. But he claims
that the police told her that to get her worked
up so that she would confess to something. He claims
she doesn't know. I got three questions for you, Laura
Ingle Fox, New Senior correspondent, Again, thank you for being
with us. You know this like the back of your hand, Laura,
two conflicting things I heard. This is my first question.
(12:33):
There are I believe you said there is partial DNA
from Michel Taconis on the outside of the trash bags
containing Jennifer Dulo's bloody clothes. Is that right? That's right? Now?
Then how does partial DNA fit with not a full fingerprint?
Because typically we say DNA and a partial print. Where
(12:58):
are they getting partial DNA because in the world we
live in now, there's really no such thing as partial DNA.
There may be compromise DNA, there may be just mitochondrial DNA,
But I've never heard the phrase partial DNA. Did they
mean a partial fingerprint? You know? Look, it's John Schoenhorne's
(13:19):
way of saying, there are there's clues of DNA of
Michel Draconis. But he's just trying to minimize. What they
are got is take very different than what state investigator. Yes,
I'm sure the defense lawyer's interpretation is very different from
the crime lab scientist interpretation. And the other thing is
you said when the lover, Michel Taconis is being interrogated,
(13:43):
it's all on tape that you can hear everythink. Do
you hear on the tape where the investigator said body parts?
That part has not been released. That was something that
John Schoenhorne told us for the first time, and he
even said, I'm looking at the transp right now of
our interview. He said, I have never told anybody this before.
(14:04):
This is going to be coming out because we're going
to finally get her to our chance to release these
interrogation tips. And we've got a little taste of it
this week from this hearing where she is crying and
they're saying, just tell us what you know, and she
just keeps saying, I probablieve I would be here at angle.
You think I care she's crying? What do you think
Jennifer Doolos's children and her mother and father are doing
(14:25):
right now. They're crying. So she's crying. She's been sleeping
with a married man that kills his wife, and she
goes with him to dispose of her bloody clothes and
bloody sponges and bloody rags, very bloody scene from there
to Albany and back. I don't feel sorry for her.
She can cry a river for all I care. But
(14:47):
if I'm hearing from her defense attorney that during this investigation,
the cops lean over and said there are body parts.
I'm not buying that unless I can hear it on
the audio like I hear everything else, I think that's
just something they concocted. Well, we're gonna have to wait
for that. That's going to be one of the more
interesting parts of the trial, right when we get all
of that Eric right video that will be played and hey,
(15:09):
it may be there, Randy Kessler, But aside from your
own steadfast belief that this is wrong, why don't you
explain to the panel what the US Supreme Court says
about tricking a confession. Oh, look, it's got to be
a good tea. You know they have something, did you?
Did you just say good faith or good taste? Good
(15:33):
taste would be nice, But I'm not giving them, Randy,
Just tell me what the Supreme said, okay, just tell
me the ruling. You cannot outlight lie. You can tell
somebody anything you think to be true. That trickery is
okay to get a confession, beating someone, promising them things
that are not gonna happen, like a plea deal. They
(15:54):
can't promise. Um coercing them, that's not Okayking them is
totally okay, Randy. And if you and if you're okay
that and that's the system we want. There's a level
to trickery, okay. I mean you cannot say I have
this evidence right here that shows you did this, this, this,
and this. I mean, that's that's got That's so you
(16:15):
think the Supreme Court said, I've got the sevidence that
shows this, this, and this. That's not what the Supreme said.
They said, you can trick to get a confession. Yeah,
well there's you know, we are a system of justice.
Ship did you say yes? Did you say yes? Okay?
So look Nanswy you Gray, sometimes you're right. I think
he's saying yes. Okay. So you know they can't trick her.
(16:36):
They can trick her, they can't beat her, they can't
torture her into confession. But they can totally trick her.
So if that's what jump in, whoever's jumping I think
is Joe Scott. I know, I know you couldn't hold out.
You know this, it's totally not your area of expertise,
jump in, But no, it kind of is in this sense.
Let me tell you what your connis needs to be worried.
(16:57):
Let's go back to what you said about the partial DNA.
There is such thing as partial DNA. And you know
how they collected this. What they're referring to is that
I suspect this is touch DNA. Now we can leave
behind partial DNA. And let me explain this to you.
When throughout the day, throughout our normal day of life,
(17:20):
we sleft thousands and thousands and thousands of skin cells
every day, Okay, Jurgen's has made a fortune off of
hand cream. Okay, over the years, we lose dead skin cells. Well,
one of the reasons they're talking about partial is that
when that skin cell falls away, when it falls away,
there is a partial strand of DNA in there. That's
(17:42):
what they're saying here. I can almost guarantee it. And
what you have to do is take that very fragile
are you trying me when they say when the defense
lawyer said partial DNA, he's talking about epiphilial DNA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Okay.
I stand Karaga, Randy Kessler. I'm not a sore loser.
I've been schooled by Joe Scott Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
(18:16):
we're talking about the missing mom of five. Think about
that right there, missing mom of five. Jennifer Duelos drops
the children at school, comes back home. She's never seen again.
The husband and Laura angel I need your friend jump in.
She comes back home, never seen again. Her husband photos
(18:39):
Duelos is we believe at the home. Then he takes
an employee's car without permission, then later tells the employee
to switch out the back seat. Trade out back seat?
How do you even do that? Then Jennifer's DNA is
found in the back seat of the employee's car, and
(19:02):
then he Dulos and his mistress, Michelle Chaconas go and
have the vehicle totally detailed and cleaned. Right. A work truck,
a work truck. This worker is like, there's no this
is something that we use for construction. We don't we
don't keep it shiny and clean. He was. He was
(19:23):
actually offended, according to some reports, he was offended that
Photus had taken his truck to be clean, he said,
and he wanted his truck back and they couldn't find
the keys, and they said, we'll get it back to you.
So there was a lot. We're going to hear a
lot more about this truck and this worker, and you know,
it was definitely something that they believed was a major
(19:46):
part of this crime. They believed that Photus Dulus was
lying in wait in the garage, that he had it
planned out. He knew that the five children after school
were going to be taken to New York City to
be with their grandmother, Gloria Farber, So he thought that
he had plenty of time to do whatever he was
going to do. And you're right, there was a lot.
There was evidence of a violent physical assault. There were
(20:09):
numerous places where there was blood found that was cleaned up,
and they also found all those cleaning supplies missing. The
nanny had just said she had put in multiple roles
of paper towels in the pantry. They were all gone.
Garbage bags were gone. So there was definitely a cleanup
and they believe, you know, we spent a lot of
(20:31):
time in that neighborhood in New Canaan, and we went
around the back of the house. Her house was on
a court, and if you cut through the back yard,
which is large, there's a wooded area. You keep going
through that wooded area, you get to another court and
that could be where photos Duelos entered into the backside
(20:52):
of the property. That's what we surmised on our investigation
when we were there, saying that this is a possible
way he could have gotten in because all the security
cam from the other neighbors in the courtyard don't show
anybody else coming in the front of the house, so
he must have got in as alleged through the back well.
I always love the moment I get to quote Shakespeare,
(21:13):
Oh what a tangled web we we when first we
practiced two to see now it's like two whit cats
in a barrel. You've got the mistress Michelle Traconis, and
you've got Kim Mhuinney. That was husband Photus Dulos, lawyer,
who seems to be up in the plot. He's up
(21:34):
to his tail hole in alligators. But if you need
a refresher course, take a listen to our cut one.
It's is CBS two New York reporter Hazel Sanchez. Listen.
The latest arrest born gives a clearer picture of what
investigators believe happened on the day Jennifer Dulos dropped off
her kids at school and then vanished. A home surveillance
(21:55):
camera captured the last known photo of her walking up
to her New Canaan home at eight five on the
morning she disappeared. Police say Duelos borrowed and employees Toyota
Tacoma truck and drove to the home, where Potus Dulos
is believed to have been lying in wait at sixty
nine Wells Lane for his wife to return home. Police
say Jennifer Dulos was the victim of a serious physical
(22:16):
assault based on bloodstains and spatter found in the garage.
According to the warrant, the crime and the cleanup are
believed to have occurred between eight or five am and
ten twenty five am. That's when surveillance images show Jennifer
Dulos's suv leaving the home. Police believe her husband was
driving it with her body inside. Now the knives are out,
(22:40):
you know to you, I think you need a shrink
with me right now, psychiatrists. Doctor Angela Arnold joining me
from the Atlanta Juristiction. You can find her at Angela
Arnold MD dot com. You know, it does seemingly doesn't
take much because apparently Fotus Dulos's lawyer is turning on
(23:01):
his mistress. And I guarantee you it's to save his
own skin, doctor Anie. It does, of course it is.
And I'm sure, Nancy, don't you feel like they're all
they're all scratching their head because photos Dulos committed suicide. Yes,
now nobody has Now, nobody has any kind of defense.
Oh and you know what we learned in medical school.
(23:23):
Don't look for the zebras in the room. Honey. This
is right in front of us. And it sounds to
me like like it's it just has to be proved.
But it is right in front of us. The truth
is right in front of us, the truth right in
front of us. And joining me with what I believe
will be that truth is Laura Ingle, Fox News senior correspondent.
You have to listen to her podcast, Murder in Connecticut,
(23:45):
The Jennifer Dulos Story. It's on Fox Nation. Hey, Laura,
take a listen to this, says our friend at NBC,
Marissa altur Cut twenty three. Defense attorney John Showinhorn today
maintained the entire case against his client, rust On Mulwinney,
who was in custody in till October when his bond
was reduced after meeting with state police. Schoen Horn says
(24:08):
he still hasn't been told if Mulwinney made a deal.
Did mister Mulinney sing for his supper to use an
old phrase, and that's why he got out of Attorney
Mulwinney's statement is one piece out of many pieces pointing
to the dependent guilt in this case that the state
mayor put on. Traconis is also charged with evidence tampering
(24:30):
and hindering prosecution. Today, Assistant State's Attorney Daniel Cummings argued
all the charges should be consolidated for one trial. In essence,
a joint trial would ameliorate the need to put on
the same witnesses repeatedly to tie a judicial staff. It
would expedite justice. Schoen Horn countered the motion is premature
(24:50):
since he's filed to move two of the cases to
the Hertford Judicial District. The judge made no decision on
jurisdiction or combining the cases, but he did rule Conis
will Keeper GPS Angle Monitor well out on bond to
Laura Angele Fox. Do you, Senior correspondent, what are the
charges on the lawyer mufwinnie and why? Yeah, they're they're
(25:12):
dealing with hindering prosecution and tampering with evidence. They're kind
of bulking that in. That's the very similar charges that
Shelter Konism is facing as well. And I do want
to note that Ken McWhinney was, you know, kind of
a friend of Dulos, that he was somebody who dealt
with Dullos in this boy. This divorce case with Jennifer
Dulas was so messy, the custodial case so messy, so
(25:36):
drawn out, and he was involved in the initial stages
of that UM and so he was, you know, brought
into Dulos's life during that time from what we have
been what we see in the court records UM and
also was having his own marital problems so severe that
he was also accused of household rape. He was accused
(25:56):
of harassing White. The lawyer Kent mcquinney was accused a
spousal rape. Did I hear that correctly? Accused? Yes, accused.
What can you tell me about a shallow grave being
(26:17):
dug on property that mcquinney and Duelos had access to? Again,
it depends on who you talk to, but people who
are members of a gun club hunting and gun club
in the Connecticut area, of which Kent McWhinney was once
(26:38):
a member of, in fact a founding member of years
ago and was not a current member of. Just before
Jennifer Duelos went missing, reignited his interest in the club
and said, hey, can I come and take a look
at the property. I want to take a look around.
I might be interested in rejoining this club. This is
a really wide open space kind of area, lots of trees,
(27:03):
lots of dirt, and where people go hunting. So he
allegedly went over to that club, got access to a
key that went to a fence, and fast forward to
after Jennifer Dulos goes missing, two hunters walking around stumble
upon a tarp over a hole. They pull it back
(27:25):
and they go, what's this? They pull it back and
they realize that it's about six feet long. Bottom line,
there was a grave dug the cots get called, and
by the time the cots get back, the grave is filled. Gee,
I wonder who did that? Just around the time that
Jennifer Dulos is murdered. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
(27:58):
back to the developing story surrounding the disappearance and I
believe the death of a Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer
Dulos if you all remember at the time, to you
Randy Kessler, high profile Atlanta trial lawyer, the defense for
Potus Duelos, the naughty, cheating husband throughout everything you can imagine,
(28:20):
kind of reminds me of Mark Geargos and Scott Peterson case.
First they said, Jennifer just ran off with her boyfriend.
What boyfriend? No evidence, no phone records, no self no emails, nothing,
there's no boyfriend. Then they said it was a gone
girl thing that she was pretending to be missing just
(28:42):
to make Photus Dulos look bad. Then they said, oh gosh,
what did they say next? Oh? Then they said she
was insane, hysterical like people always say about women. And
then they said, oh, this was a really good b Randy.
They said it was revenge suicide that she decided to
(29:05):
kill herself, leaving her five children without a mother, in
order to make him Photus Duelos look bad. Now, I'm
not a shrink like doctor Angela, but I know what
narcissism means. So she committed suicide just to make him
look bad. What about it, Randy Kester, what do you
think of all those theories? Well, I think all those
theories have one thing in common, right, nobody. I mean,
(29:27):
you know, and I know lots of convictions. There are
lots of convictions when there's nobody. But if I was
the defense, you know, you've got to prove somebody killed somebody.
And how do you best true other than showing the
body that you know? That's that's a burden. That's that's
a burden of prosecution. And I think whatever the theory is,
someone's got to explain the disappearance and all those explanations. Yes,
(29:48):
their conjecture, but you know what did just as well
to the defense as the fact that my client has
to do with the murder man. You certainly know how
to put perfume on the pig. I guess that's why
you're you're so successful as a defense attorney. Now you
say conjecture that all of those conflicting stories about Jennifer
killing herself just to make photos dulos look bad. That's conjecture.
(30:12):
You know. Some people will call it an outright lie,
dragging the victim through the mud, putting stories on the
Internet from her children to grow up and read one
day about their mother, their dead, murdered mother. But that's
just me, all right. I know you call it conjecture.
If you say tomato, I say tomato. It's really not
that simple, is it. Straight back to Joska Morgan, professor forensic,
(30:36):
you were telling me about partial DNA before I switched
gears and went to Laura Ingle. Can you follow up
on that please? Yeah? Yeah, Ken, And to a Steam
counsel Randy Kessler, I would argue this. You know, we
do have a corpus delecta here, or at least an
element of it, the body in the series. I love
(30:59):
it when you taught white and to me, my husband's
gonna get mad. Go ahead, Hey there we go. I've
got my Black's Law dictionary right here. Uh yeah, this
is this is, this is what this is about, Nancy.
We do have an element of the body. Let's keep
in mind what doctor Gill said, who's with the State
Medical Examiner's Office in Connecticut. Essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here,
(31:22):
the amount of blood and the dynamic at the scene
was essentially incompatible with life. And we have we they
actually have identified that that blood, that copious, that huge
volume of blood at the scene is tied back to Jennifer.
Now they've they've done that through DNA analysis. You know,
(31:42):
there's enough of her that remains that they can do
a comparative analysis. I mean, she's got children, she's got
you know, relatives and this sort of thing. However, this
is the important part, Nancy. There is such a volume
of blood at the scene. This is such a ghastly
scene where we've got whites swipes, where there's attempts to
clean up. I'm sure they did things like luminoll or
(32:03):
blue Star at the scene to recapture this. And we
have bags of bloody claws and this sort of thing
containing her blood. The normal human body holds about one
point two to one point five gallons of blood. Just imagine,
if you will, Okay, just envision. You take a gallon
of milk, of whole milk, and you drop it on
(32:25):
the floor, and this has never happened to you. It's horrible.
But the gallon jug bust open and you have all
of this blood or we're talking milk, but that's the
amount of blood we're talking about. The doctor looks at
this the m e without seeing a body, and he says,
this amount of blood that you have here, distributed every place,
this is incompatible with life. This is an end. Wherever
(32:46):
this originated from on her is non sustainable. You can't sustains,
you can't believe that much is still be alive. I
say to boil it down for the jury. Guys, take
a listen in case you're trying to figure out what
involvement does Potus Dulos lawyer have in on Jennifer's disappearance,
(33:07):
What involvement does the lover Michelle Jacconis have. Well, take
a listen to Fox sixty one Connecticut w tic Jan
Bernstein art cut twenty four. Mister mulwhinney claims that although
he had no involvement, that he was present at for
Jefferson Crossing on the evening of May twenty third, twenty nineteen,
(33:30):
and heard photos Dulos and my client talking about wanting
to quote get rid of Jennifer Dulos, so get rid
of quote unquote, he claimed that that was crazy, that
he wanted to have nothing to do with it, and
(33:51):
he goes home that evening and the next afternoon, late
in the afternoon, Photus Dulos, according to this statement, calls
him and says words the effect of we did it.
And so as a result of that, there is now
at least some indication that mister mulhinney is a state's witness.
(34:16):
He admits during the course of the interview very readily
that he's doing this because he wants to get out
of jail, and he was rewarded for that. Well, I
don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get out
of jail. I am being rewarded for our telling the
truth back to special guests joining us. Laura Ingle, Fox
News correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut that Jennifer Dulos story
on Fox Nation. Laura Ingle, So, do I understand that
(34:39):
mhuinney was at Dulos's home when Fotus Dulo said he
wanted to get rid of his wife. Well, we don't
know about the conversation that was had. We do know
that they did spend a lot of time together that week,
and that is you know, a lot of people have
been saying, look, he's going to be this big witness,
that he's going to be able to tell us stuff
as well as Michelle. But the other person that we
(35:01):
want to look at as we get closer into this
case and as we will get closer to the trial,
is that worker Powell. Now, I spent almost eleven hours
with Photo Stulos on December twentieth, twenty nineteen. He granted
us an interview inside of his home and we spent
a lot of time with him, and he did talk
(35:23):
to us about this worker, not on camera, but after
we were done. You know, he was talking about the
fact that this guy was on his property and that
he worked with him. He didn't directly point the finger
at him, but kind of wanted us to take a
closer look at this worker. I think that that was
where kind of his defense was going to be going.
(35:44):
But it was very interesting, Nancy. I talked to him
on December twentieth, and we learned, you know, when you're
around somebody for that long, he was cordial, he was agitated.
He kind of swayed back and forth with his emotions
throughout the day. I handed him my business card as
I left. Now it's the evening at this point, and
he ended up calling me on my cell phone on
(36:07):
Christmas morning, which completely threw me off guard. I mean,
I was, you know, exchanging gifts in the neighborhood with
my child and other children, and my phone rings. It's
a Miami number. I don't know anybody in Miami. And
I answered the phone and he says, hello, this is
photos Dulos and I look and because I had just
spent so much time with him, I knew his voice
(36:28):
and I was so taken aback. I said, well, hello,
are you calling to tell me anything new that we
didn't talk about? And he said, I'm just simply calling
to wish you a merry Christmas. And then he asked
me where I was, and I said I'm in New York.
I didn't want to give him my location, but it
was just a way. It was just a really, really
odd encounter. And then you know, he was so adamant
(36:51):
and wanted to talk to us again. He said, I'm
looking forward to talking to you again when I can
talk more freely about the evidence in this case. Fast
forward three weeks, three and a half weeks and he
commits suicide. So just a really bizarre turn of events
in those thirty days for us covering this trial, covering
this kid. Do you believe Laura Ingalls that photos Dulo's
(37:14):
defense attorney Mhuinney, he is going to testify against Dulo's mistress,
michel Ter Konis. I believe that he probably will. There's
been a lot of talk that he has been anxious
to get out of the charges and not go back
to jail, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
But we've tried repeatedly to speak to his attorney, who
(37:34):
was not spoken to us, so I can't say for sure,
but all signs point to that. Right we wait as
justice unfalls. Right now, the so called bone finder, Bob Perry,
after conducting experiments, does believe that does believe that Jennifer
Dulos's body may be somewhere on Dulo's property. Nancy Grace
(37:57):
Crime's story signing off Goodbye Friend,
The missing Connecticut mom of five Jennifer Dulos body has
never been found. What are the grandparents supposed to tell
her children when they ask where's Mommy? The case ain't
over yet. In the last hours a bombshell. When I
(00:33):
say bombshell, I mean bombshell is husband Fotus Dulos, lawyer,
his alleged partner in crime, set to testify against his mistress.
Take a listen to this. It was a Friday morning
in late May, almost the end of the academic year,
(00:56):
when Jennifer Dulos dropped off her five children for school
surveyor let's camera show. She returned to her rented home
around eight o'clock, then vanished, we love you and we
are doing everything we can to bring you home. Hours later,
worried friends called the police after she missed several appointments.
Her disappearance sparked an intense search, stretching across state lines,
(01:17):
making headlines in the national news. New development in the
case of that missing mother of five overnight her a
strange husband speaking in a new interview. Her estranged husband
and his live in girlfriend appearing in karnt Coops immediately
start with the timeline and trying to figure out if
she left on her own, but then they discover her
(01:37):
SUV seemingly abandoned. Drones, canines and a helicopter scoured the area.
Her vehicle found near a wooden park. That's how it
all started. Yes, that's how it all started. When Jennifer
Dulos goes missing. And this is what we're learning today.
Take a listen to our friends at NBC Connecticut w
(01:58):
VI our cut two. According to schoen Horne, in the
ninety minute video, which has not been released publicly, Mlwinney
says that the day before Jennifer Dulos was reported missing,
he was at Photosdulos's Farmington home at for Jefferson Crossing.
He told this to state police Allegedly, according to Schoenhorne,
(02:18):
it was there that schoen Horn says Mulwinne alleges Dulos
and Traconis asked him to give them a fake alibi
for the next day when they plan to get rid
of Dulos as a strange wife Jennifer back in May
of twenty nineteen. Sean Horn also says that the next night,
Mwennie claims Dulos called him to tell him the deed
was done. Traconis's attorney says he's not surprised Mlwinnie would
(02:39):
try to implicate his client, and he doesn't believe the
state plans I'm moving forward with its case against him,
questioning Mwennie's credibility and motive. Schoenhorn has asked prosecutors to
release all versions of Mulwinne's statement, along with video surveillance
that shows how long he was with state police before
and after they recorded that interview, documentation regarding the decision
(03:00):
not to give him a polygraph task, and any communication
that took place about his possible cooperation. Again, our friends
at NBC Connecticut w v I with me and All
Star Panel to break it down and put it back
together again. What does it mean. I've never heard of
a defense attorney testifying against their own client, even when
(03:22):
that client has been sitting in jail pulling at straws
and claims their trial lawyer was ineffective. A lot of
times you'll see the trial lawyer take the stand and say, yeah,
I was ineffective, anything to help their client get a reversal.
What's going on in the case of Michelle Charconis. Chraconis
(03:43):
the lover of Potus Dulos at the time his wife
Jennifer goes missing. Joining me. Randy Kessler, high profile lawyer
joining me out of Atlanta Emory Law School, professor, past
chair of the ABA Family Law Section, author of Divorce
Protect Yourself, Off, your kids, and your future, and you
can find them at kas family Law dot com. Wow,
(04:07):
that was a mouthful and it's all true. Joining me,
also from Atlanta. Renowned psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold. You can
find her at Angela Arnold, MD dot com. Professor Forensics,
Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
starred a brand new hit series on the True Crime Network,
Poisonous lead aisons Joseph Scott Morgan. But first to special
(04:30):
guests joining us. Fox News senior correspondent, host of Murder
in Connecticut, the Jennifer Dulo story on Fox Nation, Laura ingletv.
Laura Ingle is joining me right now, Laura, does it
never end? First this twist, then that twist? Now this
what's happening? Iinancy, Well, you know all of this coming
(04:53):
around what is called a grim anniversary. Of course, we
have made the mark as we were doing our reporting
on January twenty ninth, That was the day that Fotus
Duellos had tried to take his life at his home.
He was supposed to be in court that day, so
that was just a year ago, and as we were
(05:13):
getting ready to mark that anniversary in check in the case,
You're right, a lot of activity has been happening with
the courts with these other two suspects in the case.
And we were able to speak to John Schoenhorn for
over an hour. John Schoenhorn is the attorney for Michelle Traconis,
look taking a look back at where we are with
(05:34):
this case and taking a look forward, and he of
course still maintains that Michelle Traconis Fotus's girlfriend at the
time of Jennifer Duelis's disappearance, maintains their innocence, but what
he told us in that interview. And then we saw
some new video just released this week from mister Schoenhorn
(05:55):
in court trying to get the charges dismissed. Some interrogation
video that happened shortly after Jennifer Duelos went missing, of
what he calls state investigators badgering his client, giving her
what he calls false information to get her to crack
(06:15):
and give information that he claims she simply does not
have lawn Angel. For those of us that I mean
following the case from beginning, we know all the names.
But for people that are just learning about Jennifer Dulos,
that missing Connecticut mom of five. She drops her children
off to school, eight am in the morning, she comes
back home, she goes. You see her heading into her home,
(06:39):
and then she's never seen alive again. Blood has been
found all over the home, including her blood and her
husband's blood. And then it seems like the mistress, Michelle
Traconis was along for the ride. Well, there's no such
thing as along for the ride under the law. Straight
out to you, Randy Kesser, Atlanta trial lawyer. If she
(07:01):
was in the car and she helped fotus due, I
was get rid of evidence the way that video seems
to purport, she's in and up to her eyeballs, she is.
But you know it's this lord's aggressive and I like
his style, and I like that he's putting it all
out there. You take every shot you can to get
your client off. I mean, he's exposing you know what
you're sounding. You sound like you're talking at um um
(07:22):
one of those singing competitions or the masked dancer or
dancing with the stars. Put it all out there, show
him what you've got. What are you talking about. This
is a murder case. Put it all out there. Well,
you know, he's asked the just to dismiss the charges.
He's going to ask the judge in the middle of
the trial to dismiss his client. He's gonna he's trying
to prep the judge, and he's showing you this interview tactic.
(07:45):
You know, where would you where would you bury a body? Well,
that's a trick question. If she says the right answer
that Ahashi knew it, because she did. And if she
doesn't cooperate, well she's not cooperative. I mean he's trying
to prejudice the trier of factor. She's the judge and
the jury. So anyway ses us knows, cass let me
understand this with me, high profile defense attorney, Mandy Caster.
You're saying he is trying to prejudice who will make
(08:10):
the decision. Who's he lay, Well, the lawyers, the prosecutor, No, no, no,
no no no, the defense lawyer. He's putting it out
there saying look at these videos, look at this interview
of her. They was harassing her. She's who's day, Who's
harassing her? The investigator? Okay, right, okay, Now I see
where you're going, Mandy Kester, Jimmy and I went to
(08:31):
wade through all that defense. Mumbo jumbo, you're now traming
the police. Investigators are confusing the mistress. Okay, with trick
questions climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking
(08:54):
about not only the disappearance and what I purport to
be the death of a missing mom of five, Jennifer
Dulos out of Connecticut, but now legal shananigans. Now, if
you got led down the garden lane by Randy Kessler,
he was trying to take me Jackie Joy the whole
pane along with him. What he's saying, Laura Ingland'm pretty
(09:16):
sure is that the prosecutors, the investigators, the detectives are
trying to trick the lover, the girlfriend Michelle Triconis into
saying where Jennifer dulos body has been hidden. Now, let's correct, everybody,
(09:37):
Laura Ingles, refresh recollections. Isn't it true? Laura, Laura joined
me Fox and New senior correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut
the Jennifer Dulo's story on Fox Nation that there is
video of potus duelos, the husband, the cheating husband, going
all over town, throwing out bloody clothes, these sponges, all
(10:01):
sorts of blood spattered evidence. It's Jennifer's blood on the evidence.
And in the car is none other than michel Ter
Konis on video right, that is on video. You don't
see her getting out on these surveillance videos. And it's
really interesting that he chose to go to Albany, which
(10:22):
is absolutely wired. There's a camera on every street corner
and it seems to be in every store, every alley
showing him getting out of the car and removing these bags. Now,
remember the outside of the bags contains Photostulus's DNA fingerprints,
of course, and they also say that they found a
couple of trace pieces of DNA of michel tercons on
(10:45):
the outside of those bags. And John Schoenhorn, her attorney,
told us last week that they police misrepresented the evidence.
It was only partial DNA, there weren't full fingerprints, he says.
But here's what's really interesting about our conversation with John Schoenhern,
the attorney for Michelle Traconas. Now he told us that
(11:06):
the police in these interviews and your other guests brought
up you know, the police asked her where would you
get rid of a body? That's on the tape. He
told us for the first time that in those interviews,
the state police told her in graphic term that Fota
Stulos murdered his wife, but then told Michelle Traconas falsely
that the garbage bags disposed of on Albany Avenue, which
(11:30):
is in Hartford, are filled with body parts. He says
that caused my client Michelle to freak out during interrogation,
get hysterical, crying, and he claims that the state police
are repeatedly lying to her in order to get her
to tell them what she knew. She said at least
a dozen times in that tape. He counted nineteen times
(11:50):
on the interrogation recordings that she says, I don't know anything.
I would tell you if I knew. She claims that
she was being badgered, that the police techniques that were
being used were illegal, that they were trying to just
work her over and get her all worked up. He said,
there's never been evidence of body parts, and to his point,
(12:11):
there have not been body parts sound. But he claims
that the police told her that to get her worked
up so that she would confess to something. He claims
she doesn't know. I got three questions for you, Laura
Ingle Fox, New Senior correspondent, Again, thank you for being
with us. You know this like the back of your hand, Laura,
two conflicting things I heard. This is my first question.
(12:33):
There are I believe you said there is partial DNA
from Michel Taconis on the outside of the trash bags
containing Jennifer Dulo's bloody clothes. Is that right? That's right? Now?
Then how does partial DNA fit with not a full fingerprint?
Because typically we say DNA and a partial print. Where
(12:58):
are they getting partial DNA because in the world we
live in now, there's really no such thing as partial DNA.
There may be compromise DNA, there may be just mitochondrial DNA,
But I've never heard the phrase partial DNA. Did they
mean a partial fingerprint? You know? Look, it's John Schoenhorne's
(13:19):
way of saying, there are there's clues of DNA of
Michel Draconis. But he's just trying to minimize. What they
are got is take very different than what state investigator. Yes,
I'm sure the defense lawyer's interpretation is very different from
the crime lab scientist interpretation. And the other thing is
you said when the lover, Michel Taconis is being interrogated,
(13:43):
it's all on tape that you can hear everythink. Do
you hear on the tape where the investigator said body parts?
That part has not been released. That was something that
John Schoenhorne told us for the first time, and he
even said, I'm looking at the transp right now of
our interview. He said, I have never told anybody this before.
(14:04):
This is going to be coming out because we're going
to finally get her to our chance to release these
interrogation tips. And we've got a little taste of it
this week from this hearing where she is crying and
they're saying, just tell us what you know, and she
just keeps saying, I probablieve I would be here at angle.
You think I care she's crying? What do you think
Jennifer Doolos's children and her mother and father are doing
(14:25):
right now. They're crying. So she's crying. She's been sleeping
with a married man that kills his wife, and she
goes with him to dispose of her bloody clothes and
bloody sponges and bloody rags, very bloody scene from there
to Albany and back. I don't feel sorry for her.
She can cry a river for all I care. But
(14:47):
if I'm hearing from her defense attorney that during this investigation,
the cops lean over and said there are body parts.
I'm not buying that unless I can hear it on
the audio like I hear everything else, I think that's
just something they concocted. Well, we're gonna have to wait
for that. That's going to be one of the more
interesting parts of the trial, right when we get all
of that Eric right video that will be played and hey,
(15:09):
it may be there, Randy Kessler, But aside from your
own steadfast belief that this is wrong, why don't you
explain to the panel what the US Supreme Court says
about tricking a confession. Oh, look, it's got to be
a good tea. You know they have something, did you?
Did you just say good faith or good taste? Good
(15:33):
taste would be nice, But I'm not giving them, Randy,
Just tell me what the Supreme said, okay, just tell
me the ruling. You cannot outlight lie. You can tell
somebody anything you think to be true. That trickery is
okay to get a confession, beating someone, promising them things
that are not gonna happen, like a plea deal. They
(15:54):
can't promise. Um coercing them, that's not Okayking them is
totally okay, Randy. And if you and if you're okay
that and that's the system we want. There's a level
to trickery, okay. I mean you cannot say I have
this evidence right here that shows you did this, this, this,
and this. I mean, that's that's got That's so you
(16:15):
think the Supreme Court said, I've got the sevidence that
shows this, this, and this. That's not what the Supreme said.
They said, you can trick to get a confession. Yeah,
well there's you know, we are a system of justice.
Ship did you say yes? Did you say yes? Okay?
So look Nanswy you Gray, sometimes you're right. I think
he's saying yes. Okay. So you know they can't trick her.
(16:36):
They can trick her, they can't beat her, they can't
torture her into confession. But they can totally trick her.
So if that's what jump in, whoever's jumping I think
is Joe Scott. I know, I know you couldn't hold out.
You know this, it's totally not your area of expertise,
jump in, But no, it kind of is in this sense.
Let me tell you what your connis needs to be worried.
(16:57):
Let's go back to what you said about the partial DNA.
There is such thing as partial DNA. And you know
how they collected this. What they're referring to is that
I suspect this is touch DNA. Now we can leave
behind partial DNA. And let me explain this to you.
When throughout the day, throughout our normal day of life,
(17:20):
we sleft thousands and thousands and thousands of skin cells
every day, Okay, Jurgen's has made a fortune off of
hand cream. Okay, over the years, we lose dead skin cells. Well,
one of the reasons they're talking about partial is that
when that skin cell falls away, when it falls away,
there is a partial strand of DNA in there. That's
(17:42):
what they're saying here. I can almost guarantee it. And
what you have to do is take that very fragile
are you trying me when they say when the defense
lawyer said partial DNA, he's talking about epiphilial DNA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, Okay.
I stand Karaga, Randy Kessler. I'm not a sore loser.
I've been schooled by Joe Scott Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
(18:16):
we're talking about the missing mom of five. Think about
that right there, missing mom of five. Jennifer Duelos drops
the children at school, comes back home. She's never seen again.
The husband and Laura angel I need your friend jump in.
She comes back home, never seen again. Her husband photos
(18:39):
Duelos is we believe at the home. Then he takes
an employee's car without permission, then later tells the employee
to switch out the back seat. Trade out back seat?
How do you even do that? Then Jennifer's DNA is
found in the back seat of the employee's car, and
(19:02):
then he Dulos and his mistress, Michelle Chaconas go and
have the vehicle totally detailed and cleaned. Right. A work truck,
a work truck. This worker is like, there's no this
is something that we use for construction. We don't we
don't keep it shiny and clean. He was. He was
(19:23):
actually offended, according to some reports, he was offended that
Photus had taken his truck to be clean, he said,
and he wanted his truck back and they couldn't find
the keys, and they said, we'll get it back to you.
So there was a lot. We're going to hear a
lot more about this truck and this worker, and you know,
it was definitely something that they believed was a major
(19:46):
part of this crime. They believed that Photus Dulus was
lying in wait in the garage, that he had it
planned out. He knew that the five children after school
were going to be taken to New York City to
be with their grandmother, Gloria Farber, So he thought that
he had plenty of time to do whatever he was
going to do. And you're right, there was a lot.
There was evidence of a violent physical assault. There were
(20:09):
numerous places where there was blood found that was cleaned up,
and they also found all those cleaning supplies missing. The
nanny had just said she had put in multiple roles
of paper towels in the pantry. They were all gone.
Garbage bags were gone. So there was definitely a cleanup
and they believe, you know, we spent a lot of
(20:31):
time in that neighborhood in New Canaan, and we went
around the back of the house. Her house was on
a court, and if you cut through the back yard,
which is large, there's a wooded area. You keep going
through that wooded area, you get to another court and
that could be where photos Duelos entered into the backside
(20:52):
of the property. That's what we surmised on our investigation
when we were there, saying that this is a possible
way he could have gotten in because all the security
cam from the other neighbors in the courtyard don't show
anybody else coming in the front of the house, so
he must have got in as alleged through the back well.
I always love the moment I get to quote Shakespeare,
(21:13):
Oh what a tangled web we we when first we
practiced two to see now it's like two whit cats
in a barrel. You've got the mistress Michelle Traconis, and
you've got Kim Mhuinney. That was husband Photus Dulos, lawyer,
who seems to be up in the plot. He's up
(21:34):
to his tail hole in alligators. But if you need
a refresher course, take a listen to our cut one.
It's is CBS two New York reporter Hazel Sanchez. Listen.
The latest arrest born gives a clearer picture of what
investigators believe happened on the day Jennifer Dulos dropped off
her kids at school and then vanished. A home surveillance
(21:55):
camera captured the last known photo of her walking up
to her New Canaan home at eight five on the
morning she disappeared. Police say Duelos borrowed and employees Toyota
Tacoma truck and drove to the home, where Potus Dulos
is believed to have been lying in wait at sixty
nine Wells Lane for his wife to return home. Police
say Jennifer Dulos was the victim of a serious physical
(22:16):
assault based on bloodstains and spatter found in the garage.
According to the warrant, the crime and the cleanup are
believed to have occurred between eight or five am and
ten twenty five am. That's when surveillance images show Jennifer
Dulos's suv leaving the home. Police believe her husband was
driving it with her body inside. Now the knives are out,
(22:40):
you know to you, I think you need a shrink
with me right now, psychiatrists. Doctor Angela Arnold joining me
from the Atlanta Juristiction. You can find her at Angela
Arnold MD dot com. You know, it does seemingly doesn't
take much because apparently Fotus Dulos's lawyer is turning on
(23:01):
his mistress. And I guarantee you it's to save his
own skin, doctor Anie. It does, of course it is.
And I'm sure, Nancy, don't you feel like they're all
they're all scratching their head because photos Dulos committed suicide. Yes,
now nobody has Now, nobody has any kind of defense.
Oh and you know what we learned in medical school.
(23:23):
Don't look for the zebras in the room. Honey. This
is right in front of us. And it sounds to
me like like it's it just has to be proved.
But it is right in front of us. The truth
is right in front of us, the truth right in
front of us. And joining me with what I believe
will be that truth is Laura Ingle, Fox News senior correspondent.
You have to listen to her podcast, Murder in Connecticut,
(23:45):
The Jennifer Dulos Story. It's on Fox Nation. Hey, Laura,
take a listen to this, says our friend at NBC,
Marissa altur Cut twenty three. Defense attorney John Showinhorn today
maintained the entire case against his client, rust On Mulwinney,
who was in custody in till October when his bond
was reduced after meeting with state police. Schoen Horn says
(24:08):
he still hasn't been told if Mulwinney made a deal.
Did mister Mulinney sing for his supper to use an
old phrase, and that's why he got out of Attorney
Mulwinney's statement is one piece out of many pieces pointing
to the dependent guilt in this case that the state
mayor put on. Traconis is also charged with evidence tampering
(24:30):
and hindering prosecution. Today, Assistant State's Attorney Daniel Cummings argued
all the charges should be consolidated for one trial. In essence,
a joint trial would ameliorate the need to put on
the same witnesses repeatedly to tie a judicial staff. It
would expedite justice. Schoen Horn countered the motion is premature
(24:50):
since he's filed to move two of the cases to
the Hertford Judicial District. The judge made no decision on
jurisdiction or combining the cases, but he did rule Conis
will Keeper GPS Angle Monitor well out on bond to
Laura Angele Fox. Do you, Senior correspondent, what are the
charges on the lawyer mufwinnie and why? Yeah, they're they're
(25:12):
dealing with hindering prosecution and tampering with evidence. They're kind
of bulking that in. That's the very similar charges that
Shelter Konism is facing as well. And I do want
to note that Ken McWhinney was, you know, kind of
a friend of Dulos, that he was somebody who dealt
with Dullos in this boy. This divorce case with Jennifer
Dulas was so messy, the custodial case so messy, so
(25:36):
drawn out, and he was involved in the initial stages
of that UM and so he was, you know, brought
into Dulos's life during that time from what we have
been what we see in the court records UM and
also was having his own marital problems so severe that
he was also accused of household rape. He was accused
(25:56):
of harassing White. The lawyer Kent mcquinney was accused a
spousal rape. Did I hear that correctly? Accused? Yes, accused.
What can you tell me about a shallow grave being
(26:17):
dug on property that mcquinney and Duelos had access to? Again,
it depends on who you talk to, but people who
are members of a gun club hunting and gun club
in the Connecticut area, of which Kent McWhinney was once
(26:38):
a member of, in fact a founding member of years
ago and was not a current member of. Just before
Jennifer Duelos went missing, reignited his interest in the club
and said, hey, can I come and take a look
at the property. I want to take a look around.
I might be interested in rejoining this club. This is
a really wide open space kind of area, lots of trees,
(27:03):
lots of dirt, and where people go hunting. So he
allegedly went over to that club, got access to a
key that went to a fence, and fast forward to
after Jennifer Dulos goes missing, two hunters walking around stumble
upon a tarp over a hole. They pull it back
(27:25):
and they go, what's this? They pull it back and
they realize that it's about six feet long. Bottom line,
there was a grave dug the cots get called, and
by the time the cots get back, the grave is filled. Gee,
I wonder who did that? Just around the time that
Jennifer Dulos is murdered. Climb stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
(27:58):
back to the developing story surrounding the disappearance and I
believe the death of a Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer
Dulos if you all remember at the time, to you
Randy Kessler, high profile Atlanta trial lawyer, the defense for
Potus Duelos, the naughty, cheating husband throughout everything you can imagine,
(28:20):
kind of reminds me of Mark Geargos and Scott Peterson case.
First they said, Jennifer just ran off with her boyfriend.
What boyfriend? No evidence, no phone records, no self no emails, nothing,
there's no boyfriend. Then they said it was a gone
girl thing that she was pretending to be missing just
(28:42):
to make Photus Dulos look bad. Then they said, oh gosh,
what did they say next? Oh? Then they said she
was insane, hysterical like people always say about women. And
then they said, oh, this was a really good b Randy.
They said it was revenge suicide that she decided to
(29:05):
kill herself, leaving her five children without a mother, in
order to make him Photus Duelos look bad. Now, I'm
not a shrink like doctor Angela, but I know what
narcissism means. So she committed suicide just to make him
look bad. What about it, Randy Kester, what do you
think of all those theories? Well, I think all those
theories have one thing in common, right, nobody. I mean,
(29:27):
you know, and I know lots of convictions. There are
lots of convictions when there's nobody. But if I was
the defense, you know, you've got to prove somebody killed somebody.
And how do you best true other than showing the
body that you know? That's that's a burden. That's that's
a burden of prosecution. And I think whatever the theory is,
someone's got to explain the disappearance and all those explanations. Yes,
(29:48):
their conjecture, but you know what did just as well
to the defense as the fact that my client has
to do with the murder man. You certainly know how
to put perfume on the pig. I guess that's why
you're you're so successful as a defense attorney. Now you
say conjecture that all of those conflicting stories about Jennifer
killing herself just to make photos dulos look bad. That's conjecture.
(30:12):
You know. Some people will call it an outright lie,
dragging the victim through the mud, putting stories on the
Internet from her children to grow up and read one
day about their mother, their dead, murdered mother. But that's
just me, all right. I know you call it conjecture.
If you say tomato, I say tomato. It's really not
that simple, is it. Straight back to Joska Morgan, professor forensic,
(30:36):
you were telling me about partial DNA before I switched
gears and went to Laura Ingle. Can you follow up
on that please? Yeah? Yeah, Ken, And to a Steam
counsel Randy Kessler, I would argue this. You know, we
do have a corpus delecta here, or at least an
element of it, the body in the series. I love
(30:59):
it when you taught white and to me, my husband's
gonna get mad. Go ahead, Hey there we go. I've
got my Black's Law dictionary right here. Uh yeah, this
is this is, this is what this is about, Nancy.
We do have an element of the body. Let's keep
in mind what doctor Gill said, who's with the State
Medical Examiner's Office in Connecticut. Essentially, and I'm paraphrasing here,
(31:22):
the amount of blood and the dynamic at the scene
was essentially incompatible with life. And we have we they
actually have identified that that blood, that copious, that huge
volume of blood at the scene is tied back to Jennifer.
Now they've they've done that through DNA analysis. You know,
(31:42):
there's enough of her that remains that they can do
a comparative analysis. I mean, she's got children, she's got
you know, relatives and this sort of thing. However, this
is the important part, Nancy. There is such a volume
of blood at the scene. This is such a ghastly
scene where we've got whites swipes, where there's attempts to
clean up. I'm sure they did things like luminoll or
(32:03):
blue Star at the scene to recapture this. And we
have bags of bloody claws and this sort of thing
containing her blood. The normal human body holds about one
point two to one point five gallons of blood. Just imagine,
if you will, Okay, just envision. You take a gallon
of milk, of whole milk, and you drop it on
(32:25):
the floor, and this has never happened to you. It's horrible.
But the gallon jug bust open and you have all
of this blood or we're talking milk, but that's the
amount of blood we're talking about. The doctor looks at
this the m e without seeing a body, and he says,
this amount of blood that you have here, distributed every place,
this is incompatible with life. This is an end. Wherever
(32:46):
this originated from on her is non sustainable. You can't sustains,
you can't believe that much is still be alive. I
say to boil it down for the jury. Guys, take
a listen in case you're trying to figure out what
involvement does Potus Dulos lawyer have in on Jennifer's disappearance,
(33:07):
What involvement does the lover Michelle Jacconis have. Well, take
a listen to Fox sixty one Connecticut w tic Jan
Bernstein art cut twenty four. Mister mulwhinney claims that although
he had no involvement, that he was present at for
Jefferson Crossing on the evening of May twenty third, twenty nineteen,
(33:30):
and heard photos Dulos and my client talking about wanting
to quote get rid of Jennifer Dulos, so get rid
of quote unquote, he claimed that that was crazy, that
he wanted to have nothing to do with it, and
(33:51):
he goes home that evening and the next afternoon, late
in the afternoon, Photus Dulos, according to this statement, calls
him and says words the effect of we did it.
And so as a result of that, there is now
at least some indication that mister mulhinney is a state's witness.
(34:16):
He admits during the course of the interview very readily
that he's doing this because he wants to get out
of jail, and he was rewarded for that. Well, I
don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get out
of jail. I am being rewarded for our telling the
truth back to special guests joining us. Laura Ingle, Fox
News correspondent, host of Murdering Connecticut that Jennifer Dulos story
on Fox Nation. Laura Ingle, So, do I understand that
(34:39):
mhuinney was at Dulos's home when Fotus Dulo said he
wanted to get rid of his wife. Well, we don't
know about the conversation that was had. We do know
that they did spend a lot of time together that week,
and that is you know, a lot of people have
been saying, look, he's going to be this big witness,
that he's going to be able to tell us stuff
as well as Michelle. But the other person that we
(35:01):
want to look at as we get closer into this
case and as we will get closer to the trial,
is that worker Powell. Now, I spent almost eleven hours
with Photo Stulos on December twentieth, twenty nineteen. He granted
us an interview inside of his home and we spent
a lot of time with him, and he did talk
(35:23):
to us about this worker, not on camera, but after
we were done. You know, he was talking about the
fact that this guy was on his property and that
he worked with him. He didn't directly point the finger
at him, but kind of wanted us to take a
closer look at this worker. I think that that was
where kind of his defense was going to be going.
(35:44):
But it was very interesting, Nancy. I talked to him
on December twentieth, and we learned, you know, when you're
around somebody for that long, he was cordial, he was agitated.
He kind of swayed back and forth with his emotions
throughout the day. I handed him my business card as
I left. Now it's the evening at this point, and
he ended up calling me on my cell phone on
(36:07):
Christmas morning, which completely threw me off guard. I mean,
I was, you know, exchanging gifts in the neighborhood with
my child and other children, and my phone rings. It's
a Miami number. I don't know anybody in Miami. And
I answered the phone and he says, hello, this is
photos Dulos and I look and because I had just
spent so much time with him, I knew his voice
(36:28):
and I was so taken aback. I said, well, hello,
are you calling to tell me anything new that we
didn't talk about? And he said, I'm just simply calling
to wish you a merry Christmas. And then he asked
me where I was, and I said I'm in New York.
I didn't want to give him my location, but it
was just a way. It was just a really, really
odd encounter. And then you know, he was so adamant
(36:51):
and wanted to talk to us again. He said, I'm
looking forward to talking to you again when I can
talk more freely about the evidence in this case. Fast
forward three weeks, three and a half weeks and he
commits suicide. So just a really bizarre turn of events
in those thirty days for us covering this trial, covering
this kid. Do you believe Laura Ingalls that photos Dulo's
(37:14):
defense attorney Mhuinney, he is going to testify against Dulo's mistress,
michel Ter Konis. I believe that he probably will. There's
been a lot of talk that he has been anxious
to get out of the charges and not go back
to jail, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
But we've tried repeatedly to speak to his attorney, who
(37:34):
was not spoken to us, so I can't say for sure,
but all signs point to that. Right we wait as
justice unfalls. Right now, the so called bone finder, Bob Perry,
after conducting experiments, does believe that does believe that Jennifer
Dulos's body may be somewhere on Dulo's property. Nancy Grace
(37:57):
Crime's story signing off Goodbye Friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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