The signatures on Don Lewis' power of attorney and will appear to be traced according to at least two handwriting experts. Multimillionaire Lewis, Carole Baskin's husband, vanished without a trace in the summer of 1997. He was declared legally dead in 2002, with Baskin inheriting his estate.
Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss:
- Joseph Fritz - Attorney for Don Lewis
- Tom Vastrick -Forensic document examiner/handwriting expert
- Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist
- Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder
- Levi Page - Investigative Reporter, CrimeOnline
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we
are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I
have something for you and all free E chapter on
coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a
coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake
(00:25):
cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that
are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing
you online, to fake cures that are being sold on
the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to
(00:46):
arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E
chapter Coronavirus Crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime
online dot com. You'll see it there the link and
download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists,
(01:07):
cons that will not only take advantage of you, but
take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people
you love. At a time well we are all fighting
the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot
com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented
(01:29):
for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith by
now there's nobody left in the United States that has
a herd of Tiger King Joe Exotic, not his real name,
(01:49):
who is now sitting behind bars for death threats on
a competitor, Carol Baskin, but with all of the spotlight
seemingly in her favor during the Tiger King Joe Exotic
trial where he was found guilty, that spotlight may have
turned into an unwanted spotlight in the last hours. It
(02:12):
is alleged the experts that the signature of Tiger King
Star Carol Baskins husband on his will is forged. Crime
(02:32):
Stories with Nancy Grace it is alleged that the signature
of Tiger King Star Carol Baskins husband on his will
is forged. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
(02:57):
you for being with us. You know why. You could
probably fix that by re executing the will. But Don Lewis,
her husband, is long agone. I can tell you this.
He didn't just disappear. He didn't take a hike. He
did walk off into the sunset. He's dead. Take a
listen to this. What a story. It's so wild, it
(03:18):
must not be true. That's the first thing people think, Oh,
come on, that can't be true. It's twenty years ago
cold case. Twenty year old murders don't get solved. Well,
it all starts, you know, Kalekin kal Meskin, who was
Kale Lewis at the time, was married to Don lewisk
(03:39):
oh Good. But I did see Don Lewis about maybe
a month or so before he disappeared, and he didn't
mention to me that he felt his life was in danger.
There are so many strange twists in that story you
would have to write books, volumes of the stuff that
went wrong. There lives that are there, all the circumstantial
(04:03):
evidence somebody did something too done. There's a lot of
stories about Carol would having some finger in it, but
nobody can prove it. You're hearing from Netflix special on
Joe Exotic, including Joe Exotic himself, Joe Multinado passage. What
is the truth? Now? You know you got to take
(04:25):
the Netflix documentary with a box of salt, not a pinch,
because you not that as Netflix's fault. But the people
that are speaking have never been cross examined. We don't
know the other side of their story. But with me
now to break you down and put it all back
together again as best as we can, and this juncture
is a special guest, longtime lawyer and friend of Carol
(04:49):
Baskin's missing husband, Don Lewis, Joseph Fritz, Tom Vastrik, the
forensic document examiner handwriting ex Bert who was very carefully
examined the will and all the documents. Karen Stark, New
York Psychologists joining us today. You can find her at
Karen Stark dot com, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
(05:12):
crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum, and Crime online dot com
investigative reporter Levi Page. Now you were just hearing from
the documentary Netflix about Tiger King. Okay, Tiger King is
in jail right now for he belongs for death threats,
very public death threats on Carol Baskin. But all that
(05:35):
attention heaped on Tiger King, that Carol Baskin herself whipped
up as now directed to her now, Cheryl McCollum, Director
Coldcase Research Institute. That's quite a turn of events, isn't it.
That first she wanted the attention on exotic, but now
that same spotlights on her and it ain't pretty, it
(05:56):
ain't pretty, and it ain't going away, Nancy. That spotlight
he missed thing up. You know, I'm finding more about
the zoo industry than I ever wanted to know. Take
a listen to this. I don't believe she ever appeared
overwhelmingly heartbroken that her husband was missing. I don't know
(06:16):
if it's because he had another life with the mistress
down in Costa Rica, if she knew this marriage was
coming to an end. But again, my wife is my world.
If it was yesterday, today, or twenty years from now,
I would dedicate my life. I would post rewards everywhere,
(06:36):
there would be signs everywhere. My new life's work would
be trying to find my wife. This never happened, No,
it never did happen. You were hearing Sheriff Chad Kronister
telling me about what he observed and what was observed
by others at the time Don Lewis goes missing straight
(06:57):
out to you special guests joining us attorney and longtime
confidant of Don Lewis, who I believe is dead, Joseph Ritch,
Joseph Fritz. I'm gonna go back to the time that
he goes missing. But what do you make of the
new bombshell that this document? The will is absolutely no
doubt about it forged. I think I've got Joseph Fritz
(07:19):
with me. Is he still upwards a satellite drop? Joy there? Okay,
let me know when we get him back. In the meantime,
I'll circle to Tom Vastrick, forensic document examiner, handwriting expert.
Same question to you, Tom, what do you make of it? Well?
In conducting the examination of the Durable Family Power of
(07:40):
Attorney and the will, both of which were created on
November twenty one and nineteen ninety six, I was struck
by the uncanny similarity between each set of signatures, not
only Don Lewis's signatures, but the two witness signatures and
the notary signatures. When I crossed compared each of those
(08:04):
sets of signatures, they were just ridiculously similar to each other.
It wasn't an exact replication, because if you have exact replication,
what that means it's just a copy of one signature.
But it was nearly exact replication to the extempt that
I was very confidently able to oppine that what I
(08:25):
was dealing with with, at least mister Lewis's signature, was
that these signatures were traced, and they were traced using
a model from a marriage record that had been executed
and filed with the county five years before the execution
(08:46):
of the will. We wait, Guys with me is handwriting
expert Thomas Vastrik, and he says the will, signatures and
power of attorney documents related to Don Lewis, the long
missing husband of Carol Baskin, are forged. Now, let me
understand what you're saying. Typically, I think handmriding experts, and
(09:09):
I've direct and cross examined quite a few of them,
they like it when your signature matches your last known signature.
But you're telling me that all the signatures had basically
been forged, not just Don Lewis, that like the witness,
the notary, everybody's was forged. Well, I understand as a
(09:31):
document examiner, I don't use the word forged because that's
a legal term. But it's my opinion that these signatures
are traced traced. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna follow your
example and say traced traced off the marriage document or
Don Lewis. Yes, I do not have the source document
(09:51):
for either the notary or the two other witnesses, so
I have to leave open the possibility that of each
set of signatures. There were three three, three signatures of
each of the notary and the two witnesses. Since I
do not have the model signature from anyone else other
(10:12):
than Lewis, all I could say at this point is
at least two of them were traced. One of them
could be genuine. Theoretically which one was? We're traced, tom Well,
I can't say for a fact until such time as
I locate a model signature for them. But with mister Lewis,
we have found the model signature. Now you told the
(10:34):
Clarion Ledger that Don Lewis's signature was traced on the
will the power of attorney as well time stories with
(10:59):
Nancy Grace. Guys, if the signature of Don Lewis was traced,
Carol Baskin as in a whole world of trouble. Now,
handwriting experts can disagree, So maybe she can find a
handwriting example expert there will say something entirely different. In
(11:22):
the meantime, listen to this. The investigation indicated Carol had
left Wildlife on Easy Street to drive to a nearby
store named Albertson's to pick up some milk by products
for the catch. This is at three o'clock in the morning,
her car broke down and Carol and ran into her brother,
(11:43):
who was accompanied by another deputy. The second deputy gave
her a ride back to her home. After that, Carol
indicated the last time that she saw her husband was
just several hours later and never seen again. And I
don't know, but I would have hoped that the detectives
(12:03):
would have pursued that and made sure that there was
nothing out of the ordinary about that. Maybe if you
have a sheriff that's in there that's saying, you know, hey,
this guy's kind of crazy and you know, dementia and
he does this all the time, he's probably in you know,
maybe the sheriff's partner would drag your feet at that
(12:24):
point and be like, well, you know, let's just wait
and see where it goes. Guys, you're taking you're hearing
the movements of Carol baskin the night that Don Lewis
seemingly vanished off the face of the earth, or did
he now. New allegations are being raised because in the
last hours, a handwriting expert says there's no doubt about
(12:45):
it in his mind. Don Lewis, Carrol Baskin's missing husband
signature was traced on the will. So what about the
witness that says they saw him sign the will? Guess
what that witness Hazri Canton and says, no, they did
not witness him signing the wheel. That in itself is
(13:05):
a problem. And why is Carol Baskin out getting tiger
milk at three am in the morning? When Don Lewis
goes missing? To leave, I page climb online dot Com
investigative reporter leave, Let's start at the beginning. Let's start
with him going missing. What can you tell me? So?
(13:27):
Carol Baskin said, the last time that she saw her husband,
Don Lewis, was twenty three years ago, August eighteenth, nineteen
ninety seven, and she said that the last thing that
he said to her was that he was leaving early, early,
early the next morning to transport cars to Costa Rica.
He visited there often and he was reported missing August nineteenth,
(13:51):
nineteen ninety seven. And then days later, his van was
found abandoned at the airport forty miles away from the sanctuary,
and the keys were in the floorboard in a brief
his briefcase was found inside. You know, I spoke in
depth with people at that airport and they indicate that
(14:12):
it's so small they would definitely have seen Don Lewis
pulling in. Guys, we are talking about a bobshell allegation
made in the last hours that the will signed by
Carol Basket's missing husband Don Lewis was forged. Straight out
to Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase Research Institute, way in Fancy,
(14:35):
My issue is the pre and post behavior of Caryl Basket.
So if she went to that store at three am,
how many times prior had she ever done that? I
want to know that. The second thing, excuse me, you
and I or in a career Nancy, where people come
(14:57):
to us if anything criminally has gone on with a
loved one in their family. Even Chucky Mask, his mama
reached out to your brother, who immediately came to you.
I mean, they just do that. I want to know
why her brother has not been front and center on
this thank He didn't put out any posters, he didn't
become the family spokesperson, he didn't go to the sheriff
(15:18):
and say, didn't We've got to find my brother in law.
He's been virtually ma that I can find So forget
Carol not searching and not putting up posters and not
offering a reward. The lawman and the family didn't do
it either. Back to forensic document examinery handwriting expert Tom Vastrik, Tom,
how did you get involved in the case? I was
(15:39):
asked to sunducting examination for a couple of different newspapers,
one in Tampa and one in Jackson, Mississippi. And it
was the investigative reporters that submitted the documentation to me
for examination. And what documents were you examining? Well? In
addition to the will, the durable power turn, I was
(16:01):
provided the marriage record form. I was provided a number
of different notarized document notorization documents from the notary and
about twenty documents with mister Lewis's signature on the joining me. Now,
I think we've managed to get a satellite up. Is
(16:21):
a longtime friend and lawyer for missing husband Don Lewis.
Joseph Fritz. Joseph Fritz, thank you, thank you for being
with us. I got a question for you. Have you
heard the latest bombshell that, according to at least one
handwriting expert, that will was traced, that signature is not
(16:43):
Don Lewis's. Well, first, I want to correct something. It's
not a will. It's a part of attorney. Part of
attorney handles your affairs while you're alive. It dies with
the person. Only a testamentary trust for a will can
handle it. Patrick. He is saying, actually that the will
and the power of attorney were both traced off the
(17:06):
marriage record. I don't much care about the will, huh.
I don't care about that. She managed to move their
money and assets and property via the power of attorney,
not the will. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on,
hold on. You're talking lawyer talk talk, regular people talk.
You're saying that the power of attorney is what Carol Baskin,
(17:27):
according to you, used to move all the money and assets,
not the will. Too had too because he wasn't declared
dead for five years later. Yes, brilliant, Yes, absolutely, So
let me tell you. Let me point out some mills. Yeah,
Carol certifies that that's her signature on the power of
(17:48):
attorney because she used that power of attorney to transfer
all of their assets. Okay, hold on, let me let
me interpret what you're saying as a lawyer. So Don
Lewis goes miss. But even though she is the now
sole beneficiary of all of his money, if he dies
or quote disappears, that's a funny clause. And a will,
(18:11):
all the money's gonna go to hurt. But until he
is declared dad, which takes five years in that jurisdiction,
she can't do anything under the will, but under a
power of attorney, which gives somebody control over your state
when you're incapacitated or missing, the power of attorney can
move all your money anyway they want to. Now I
(18:35):
get why you don't care about the will. That threw
me for a loop, just for a moment, But now
I get it. Okay, let me rephrase my question. What
do you make of it? Joseph Frit's, long time attorney
and confidant of Don lewis that at least one handwriting
expert says the power of attorney and will were traced
(18:55):
off the marriage document. Somebody said at my office had
had the pictures and was able to lay one over
the other on their cell phone and they are a
perfect match. Even I agree with that. Um, I believe
it was traced heard several handwriting. I think there's as
many as six and ready experts. Now I think it's
(19:16):
up to six. One of one of them m is
the one that did to take Kazynski Uni bomber case. Wow,
that's not shabby. No no, no, no, that's high high, high,
high high. You know things, A high paid expert right there. Hey,
Joseph Fritz, have you ever in court? Because I have
(19:36):
brought on a handwriting expert once, really, because I can't
find many lawyers that have done it, so I always
like to, you know, brag that I have done it
many times. But my first one was a bank robbery note.
Lucky for me, that bank robber was also dyslexic, so
he would flip letters and he did the same thing
(20:00):
in the bank robbery note that he did in his
handwriting exemplar. So that was very persuasive. But that's where
I learned about how you make your A and your
B and how you dot your eye and literally cross
your tea. What case did you have where you used
a handwriting expert? Believe it or not? I think was
(20:20):
it a bankruptcy adversary proceeding? Oh? I do believe it.
People will lie about money, and that's what I think
we may have here. So you don't expect a perfect
likeness for every signature. There should be some derivation and spacing.
(20:40):
But what did you observe when you put one over
the other. Joseph Fritz identical, just identical, perfect match time
(21:03):
stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the disappearance
and as Joseph Fritz and I belie death of Don Lewis.
Now we have one handwriting expert who has actually looked
at the documents, very well respected in his profession, Tom Vastrik,
(21:23):
and he says it was traced. That's the way what
we call forged. All right, if they were forged, Joseph Fritz,
what does that mean, Well, it means that she wrongfully
and has to at least be called to do that
because she says that that's her signature. She is what
(21:43):
we would call stops for the diamond because she used
that power of attorney to transferred properties, would move moneies, tshit,
use any of the Indian things she had to do.
She used it and said that's that's me. I believe
that it was a forgery. From what I've said, I
believe the statue of limitations has run twenty one years ago.
(22:04):
Thank you, Sheriff's department. The statue on forgery has run.
But there's a lot bigger kettle of fish brewing than
the forgery, the alleged forgery. Of course, of course there is,
and there's no statue. There's no limitation on that. But
my point is I was interviewed after Tiger came by
our sheriff's department, finally twenty four years late. But anyway,
(22:27):
I was, and I mentioned something about the power of attorney.
The two signatures have done in the cattle on the
same same document, And our Sheriff's department said that they
had a handwriting expert too. Would you deal with a
murdered detective or homicide detective? Information is a one way streat.
(22:48):
You never told me what they're what they're handwriting, guys said,
But he said they had examined subal documents, quite a
few documents. Did you ask him, Yes, I did. I
just got I got a brick wall information. There's a
one way street with a detective. You know that, you
know you know who is that way the FEDS. And
I was a fed myself before I became a violent
(23:09):
crime prosecutor. You try to get the Feds to tell
you anything. Forget about it, guys. Now another development, if
you can imagine that in the case of Tiger King,
Joe Exotic and Carol Baskin, more than one handwriting expert
has come forward to say Don Lewis's will and power
of attorney were traced, traced overly. When you were in
(23:32):
grammar school or high school, you wanted to sign your
parents name to something, hold it up to the window
and trace it over. Not that I would ever do that,
but that's what we're talking about, and regular people talk forged.
Forged would be the legal term. But what about all
of those witnesses, those witnesses that claim they were there
(23:54):
when the will was signed? Could you please play cut eleven.
Take a listen to what Sheriff Chad Kronister tells me.
One of the individuals who came forward and said that
she witnessed all the signatures fast forward from nineteen ninety
seven to two thousand and six. She came forward said
she felt pressured at the time to say that it
(24:16):
was signed by everyone, and then she wanted to recant
her story and said she did not witness the signatures. Well,
who pressured her to write to sign that she saw
Don Lewis sign as will who pressured her. According to her, well,
there's one person that's not here any longer, so I
(24:36):
think we could all deduct the fact that it had
to be Carol. And I think she says that in
her statement, I'm pretty confident. She says that she to
prove her allegiance to Carol, that she felt pressured into
saying that she witnessed those signatures. And again as time
goes forward, she feels more comfortable once to get off
her chest, calls investigators with our office and says, hey, listen,
(25:00):
I have to tell you I didn't witness that will
being signed. That is a huge bombshell that a witness
comes forward, Cheryl McCollum, you're the Cold Case Research Institute
director on a will, when the witness to the will
comes forward and goes, I really didn't see what I
(25:21):
said I saw. That's huge, Cheryl McCollum. That is tremendous.
And not get that, Nancy. Every single person that watch
that series Tiger King Fall firsthand. When Carol Baskin wants
to put on a full court prayer, you want to
talk about pressure, She comes after you with everything she got.
(25:42):
She brings other nonprofits in, She starts creating ways to
change laws to come after you. She makes comments and newspapers.
She does all of this before you ever even meet her.
You know, I'm thinking back, and I mean talking about
taking somebody's comment with a box of sault. How about
a pound of sault to everything? Joe Exotic says, don't
(26:03):
get mad at me, but that man lies every time
his lips moved, So I can't really put any credence
in what he says. But now that handwriting experts are
coming forward, Now that we know at least one witness
is saying I did not witness the will being signed,
(26:23):
this is changing the landscape of this case drastically. I've
been withholding judgment on Carol Baskin because it's hard to
have a clear head when all you're hearing is hype. Well,
you don't know the real facts. But I keep going
back to when he disappeared. Do you remember, hey, let's
(26:45):
hear cut eighteen. There was never any reward posted for
his disappearance. Was there ever an online plea or a
televised plea to help find him? Buy Carol Baskin again,
it's my understanding there was never any type of overt
action taken to try to find out where her husband was.
(27:11):
Do you know, Sheriff Chronster, if she came to the
Sheriff's office day in, day out, week by week trying
to find out what's the latest in my husband's disappearance.
I do know that the answers no, that that never happened.
Even as recent as two eleven. Was the last communication
that we had for her, And that's when we asked
(27:32):
her to come in to take a polygraph, and she declines,
said it wouldn't vindicate her of any type of in
any way, shape or form, and at the same time,
it wouldn't prohibit the Sheriff's office from taking future criminal
actions against her, So she declined to take a polygraph.
Not only does Tom Vastek forensic document examiner, handwriting experts
(27:53):
say the will the power of attorney was traced translation
forged their handwriting. The expert Willa Smith concurs and says
the signature was quote the product of tracing. And it
goes on and on. Now six experts to Joseph Fritz,
(28:14):
friend and longtime lawyer for Don Lewis, which another piece
of listening to this Jackie circumstantial evidence. Fritz has been
his lawyer and his friend for twenty plus years, but
he doesn't go to Fritz to get his will drawn up.
I mean, Fritz probably has one space to intern operating procedure.
(28:37):
Will is printed out of the computer and sign it bam.
I find that very, very odd that he didn't go
to Fritz to write up his will. So, Joseph Fritz,
do you remember when you heard Don Lewis was missing?
A yeah from Ann McQueen. And what first crossed your
(28:57):
mind when you learned he was gone? A play? You know,
That's what people, friends, relatives I murder victims say all
the time when the person goes missing. They go, oh,
they're not missing, they're dead. I can tell you that
right now. And that's not just a jumping the gun.
That's based on years of observation. So at this juncture,
(29:23):
Joseph Fritz, when you'll look back on the time around
when Don Luis goes missing, do you remember how Carol
Baskin went out that night at three am for tiger
milk and then her car broke down and she had
a witness from the Sheriff's depart become help her. And
it was therefore documented every which way that she was
(29:45):
on her own out and about at the time he disappeared.
Do you remember that I've heard that, Yeah, but I
remember that I didn't see it. Do you remember hearing
about his vehicle being found at the airport with his
briefcase and his keys in it? Would he have ever
done that? He could be a little stead of brain,
but he was. He was together. He might have left
(30:07):
his keys somewhere or something, but he wouldn't leave a
van and a briefcase and papers and keys and everything.
He wouldn't do it. What if anything can be done?
We know that the Statue of limitations which says a
criminal case you can only even brought for X number
of years after the crime on forgery, on any alleged forgery.
I'm sure Carol Baskin denies this. What do we do now, Fritz?
(30:33):
Somewhere in the course of time, somebody needs to call
this what it is, a murder investigation. It's not even
classified as that, as last I heard. How hard is that? Really?
Want to point out? Go ahead, the sheriff can flip
a switch and it's a murder investigation. It's not hard
at all. You don't need to open something. I mean
(30:53):
it's open, it's just idling, kind of been neutral. But
the interine is running. Cheryl McCollum, how hard would it be.
It's not hard at all. And I honestly believe that's
the scene done right now. I believe that the Sheriff's
apartment is working it to see what they can piece together.
I know for a fact they've reinterviewed people. And I
(31:13):
think this case is kind of in overdrive, reckless minute
because Nancy, here's one of the most important things to me.
Carol Baskins supposedly went and picked that van up and
drove it home. Yet when that van was processed, there
was no fingerprints in it none. Well, her should have
been in it. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, take
(31:49):
a listen to our cut fifteen. What Chrimester says about
the disappearance of Don lewis we have a little window
there when who's this appearance occurred from the day almost
two days that it took for her to report him,
and a couple of days that people had besides her
that hadn't seen him. You have a few days in
(32:10):
there that I believe that's when that's when he was killed.
So we've got about a four hour, excuse me, a
four day window where he could have been killed. Nobody
saw him at Big Cat, no one, no banker, no friend,
no lawyer. Nobody saw him for about two days before
(32:33):
he went to Costa Rica. That's it. No telephone calls,
no business transactions. So again I think that these are
more details that only make make this death more suspicious
and only lead us to believe that again it was
a homicide. You know, Karen start with me. New York
(32:54):
psychologists joining us at karen start dot com. Karen, I've
just been thinking a lot of about the witness that
now comes forward claiming that she did not witness Don
Lewis signed the will, that she was pressured into it.
You know, I think that you know, according to Freud,
(33:17):
your personality is formed by the time you're four. And
the twins told me the other day that one of
their classmates texted them that they wanted the answers because
they've both made as in math and John David made
a ninety nine point eight. They wanted the twins to
(33:40):
give them answers to the final exam. They said no,
And these were some of their good little friends, and
they both said, no, don't worry. I've looked at their
text to make sure they're telling me the truth. How
do you suddenly one day just flick a switch, I
(34:01):
decide you're going to do the wrong thing. And something
as important as a multi million dollar estate like Don
Lewis's was so much riding on it. What kind of
coercion would make you just go, sure, I'll fake it. Well, Nancy,
this sounds to me very self serving. The coercion I
(34:23):
would expect, or maybe smile had to do with the
money and how much money she might have been getting.
But what's interesting is that this witness didn't seem to
come forward until everyone started to question what happened to him,
and they question what happened to him because of the
success of the documentary. All of a sudden, there was
(34:46):
this glaring gap of this man. He disappeared, How did
he disappear? What became of him? And so this witness,
I'm assuming just decided, you know what I'm going to
get in a lot of t i'd better come forward.
And I think that's what happened. I see what you're saying.
It's not a sudden fit of veracity, or suddenly you
(35:08):
take off your devil's horns and put on a halo.
All right, you think, okay, he's missing. He was killed
for money? Maybe, And I'm the one that witnessed the will,
row I better cough up. Now we'll listen to what
the sheriff has to say about this. Do you believe,
Sheriff Chronister that Don Lewis's will was forged? Believe this
(35:34):
will was forged? I don't. A couple of different reasons.
One someone who said they witnessed at the time, at
the time, the signatures recancerr story, and again I think
the biggest part is the first time ever hearing that
someone put a disappearance clause to make sure that they
received the full benesit full benefits of an executed will. Guys,
(35:56):
you're hearing what Chronister says if he thinks the will
was forged. Now, what did you say, Joseph Fritz? As
six hand running experts have said it was traced, I
believe it's up to six And now I've heard a
body language expert chime in too, with the pictures of her. Again,
Chronister just made the same thing about the will of
(36:18):
the will of the will. We're talking about the will.
The will never got probated. It was never a thought.
It never went to court because he died owing nothing,
owning nothing, because everything had been transferred with the power
of attorney. I don't care about the will. Okay, then
let's talk about the power of attorney. How about that? Okay?
So what do we do now, Fritz, What if anything
can we do now? Well, the touch of limitations criminally
(36:39):
has run. Civilly, it has run. They're both five years
on written well, five years on a felony and five
years on a civil suit to recover the money for
the estate. The will of the will is obviously no good.
I wouldn't probate it it. I wouldn't put it into
probate court because everybody said it's for it. Okay, I
(37:02):
believe it. What you have to do is plot on
and get the murder indictment. Well, here's the thing, without
a body, how is that going to happen? To Cheryl
McCallin direct to Coal Case Research Institute, Well, mean to
you and I both know there's some really extraordinary people
that have had great success with nobody cases. What you're
gonna do is you're gonna build this thing up as
(37:24):
a murder investigation, and you're gonna combine every single piece
of this puzzle. And I like the fact they have
the will and the power of attorney, not how she
might have used them, but to show when her mind,
if his body's recovered, I've got the will if it's not,
and I've got the power of attorney. Either way, it
game owned for her. She covered her basis. So you
(37:45):
look at like what you're doing and the evidence that
you're bringing out. You've got people like Jerry Mitchell and
ripper Jack and Nosey Wren. They're doing some incredible things online.
Just like don't f with cats, honey, this is don't
f with bigger cats. People are putting this thing together,
and they're putting a ton of the piece of this
puzzle right out in front of God's Country. A big,
(38:07):
a big piece of this puzzle is Anne McQueen, who
was Donald Lewis's executive assistant. I want you to take
a listen to what she says on Netflix. I got
a phone call stating that the office alarm had gone
off and Carol was there. Her and Kenny Farr had
cut the locks on the gate cut, the locks on
(38:28):
the office cut, the power to the trailer, got the water,
got the sewer. The cops come because the alarm went off,
and McQueen come up because that was that's her office.
You know what I mean, that's she's been here for years.
There were two wheels, and there were two power attorneys
in my office in a box underneath my desk. But
(38:51):
whatever paperwork or whatever they needed, there was nothing that
the cops could do the stopular wife thinking anything. The
will and the power attorney, they were all taken out
the office that day. I was an executor for both
of their wills. I was the power of attorney for
(39:11):
both of them. Who was the power of attorney on
the new documents Carol produced? I mean so to Joseph Fritz,
longtime friend and lawyer for Don Lewis, Carroll Baskin's missing husband,
let me understand what McQueen is saying. This is Don Luis,
this long time twenty plus years executive assistant, that she
(39:33):
had been the executor on the power of attorney and
the will. There were two copies of them in a
box under her desk. She gets a call because the
alarm went off goes to her office. This is after
Lewis disappears. She gets to her office and there is
Carol Baskin. The will and the power of attorney is gone,
(39:57):
and now there's a new will and power of attorney.
She and McQueen is no longer. The executor is now
Carol Baskin. Do I have the chronology right? I'm sure
you do. Dang, okay, leave my page. What else can
you tell me about the investigation? Now? Well, Nancy, this
investigation has been reopened. The sheriff says that he gets
(40:19):
six tips a day about this case, all thanks to
the Netflix series Tiger King, and the more that this
case is in the public, the more tips he's going
to get. This is not slowing down anytime soon. To you,
Joseph Fritz, what do you think is going to take
for a murder investigation and a murdered case to move forward.
(40:41):
I've always said that somebody has to stub their toe
legally and want to get out of jail free card
and spill the beans on what exactly happened. And I've
heard the sheriff say that, you know, all deals are
on the table, So that's what I think is going
to break the case. Who would in the position to
know all that, Joseph, but know what to know any
(41:05):
of the details that would be probitive in a murder
case beside masking the sure if I said multiple people
were involved, I believe. I believe as he does, and
I believe that one did the murder, one conspired to
do a murder. Your contract. Yet, as far as I'm concerned,
there's all sorts of people around there that you know
(41:26):
that have ever could have information. And to you, Tom Vastric,
forensic document examiner, handwriting expert, do you have any doubt
in your mind that that power of attorney and that
will the signature of Don Lewis was traced. No, I
don't have any doubt. I'm remind at all. And I'd
(41:48):
also want to bring up something You've mentioned that one
of the witnesses as free candid, and I want to
remind you there's also a second witness and a notary.
I would be interested in what they have to say.
Oh brilliant, You're so right, Tom Vastrick. And could you
(42:09):
tell me one more time? I mean, I'm just a JD.
I'm not a handwriting expert. Why you're convinced that Lewis's
signature was traced. It is far, far too similar with
each other. Every every time you sign your name, there's
a level of variation from one signature to the next,
(42:29):
and these are just way, way too similar. I did
not find this a difficult determination at all, So it
was easy. Nothing's ever easy in arm our field, but
it's not difficult. You know, you said something really interesting
just then, you said that there's a slight derivation every
time you sign your signature. Why do you what what derivation?
(42:53):
What's different? Well, you're you're talking about the Gurler control
of the human. You can you can't repeat that process
of complication like that with exact, precise replication. So there's
going to be that natural level of variation in virtually
anything that a human does, and it shows itself in
(43:15):
its handwriting through what we call natural variation. So when
you get multiple signatures that have the level of similarity
that you have here, it tells us that this is
not normal natural writing. Something is a miss. Now if
it was an exact replication, that would tell me what
I'm dealing with. Its copies of the same signature, because
(43:36):
that's the only way that can happen like with a
rubber stamp, or are scanning it onto a computer and
having it artificially placed onto a document. But when you
get this level of consistency between multiple signatures but still
just that little bit of differences one signature to another,
that is a characteristic tracing and really nothing else. All right,
(44:00):
Sheriff Cronister, it's in your court. I did that's a question.
If I can't, yes, jump in. Yeah. The handwriting folks
have have all reached the conclusion that they was traced.
I want to know anybody actually isamine the originals rather
than copies, because I hear a lot about indentation and
(44:21):
pressure on the paper that you can't pick up from
copies but you can from originals. Where's the originals who
examined it? What about it? Astrick? I don't know who
has the original? Well, Nancy less part of them at
the real world. She gave his guns lay the original. Well,
I can tell you this much. If the originals and
(44:42):
the copies under Anne McQueen's desk disappeared, God only knows
where this will really is, because in court you would
probably need you know. That's the highest and best, which
means the original We wait as just as unfalls Nancy
Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,
Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we
are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I
have something for you and all free E chapter on
coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a
coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake
(00:25):
cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that
are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing
you online, to fake cures that are being sold on
the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to
(00:46):
arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E
chapter Coronavirus Crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime
online dot com. You'll see it there the link and
download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists,
(01:07):
cons that will not only take advantage of you, but
take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and people
you love. At a time well we are all fighting
the virus. I hope you go to crime online dot
com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented
(01:29):
for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith by
now there's nobody left in the United States that has
a herd of Tiger King Joe Exotic, not his real name,
(01:49):
who is now sitting behind bars for death threats on
a competitor, Carol Baskin, but with all of the spotlight
seemingly in her favor during the Tiger King Joe Exotic
trial where he was found guilty, that spotlight may have
turned into an unwanted spotlight in the last hours. It
(02:12):
is alleged the experts that the signature of Tiger King
Star Carol Baskins husband on his will is forged. Crime
(02:32):
Stories with Nancy Grace it is alleged that the signature
of Tiger King Star Carol Baskins husband on his will
is forged. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
(02:57):
you for being with us. You know why. You could
probably fix that by re executing the will. But Don Lewis,
her husband, is long agone. I can tell you this.
He didn't just disappear. He didn't take a hike. He
did walk off into the sunset. He's dead. Take a
listen to this. What a story. It's so wild, it
(03:18):
must not be true. That's the first thing people think, Oh,
come on, that can't be true. It's twenty years ago
cold case. Twenty year old murders don't get solved. Well,
it all starts, you know, Kalekin kal Meskin, who was
Kale Lewis at the time, was married to Don lewisk
(03:39):
oh Good. But I did see Don Lewis about maybe
a month or so before he disappeared, and he didn't
mention to me that he felt his life was in danger.
There are so many strange twists in that story you
would have to write books, volumes of the stuff that
went wrong. There lives that are there, all the circumstantial
(04:03):
evidence somebody did something too done. There's a lot of
stories about Carol would having some finger in it, but
nobody can prove it. You're hearing from Netflix special on
Joe Exotic, including Joe Exotic himself, Joe Multinado passage. What
is the truth? Now? You know you got to take
(04:25):
the Netflix documentary with a box of salt, not a pinch,
because you not that as Netflix's fault. But the people
that are speaking have never been cross examined. We don't
know the other side of their story. But with me
now to break you down and put it all back
together again as best as we can, and this juncture
is a special guest, longtime lawyer and friend of Carol
(04:49):
Baskin's missing husband, Don Lewis, Joseph Fritz, Tom Vastrik, the
forensic document examiner handwriting ex Bert who was very carefully
examined the will and all the documents. Karen Stark, New
York Psychologists joining us today. You can find her at
Karen Stark dot com, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
(05:12):
crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum, and Crime online dot com
investigative reporter Levi Page. Now you were just hearing from
the documentary Netflix about Tiger King. Okay, Tiger King is
in jail right now for he belongs for death threats,
very public death threats on Carol Baskin. But all that
(05:35):
attention heaped on Tiger King, that Carol Baskin herself whipped
up as now directed to her now, Cheryl McCollum, Director
Coldcase Research Institute. That's quite a turn of events, isn't it.
That first she wanted the attention on exotic, but now
that same spotlights on her and it ain't pretty, it
(05:56):
ain't pretty, and it ain't going away, Nancy. That spotlight
he missed thing up. You know, I'm finding more about
the zoo industry than I ever wanted to know. Take
a listen to this. I don't believe she ever appeared
overwhelmingly heartbroken that her husband was missing. I don't know
(06:16):
if it's because he had another life with the mistress
down in Costa Rica, if she knew this marriage was
coming to an end. But again, my wife is my world.
If it was yesterday, today, or twenty years from now,
I would dedicate my life. I would post rewards everywhere,
(06:36):
there would be signs everywhere. My new life's work would
be trying to find my wife. This never happened, No,
it never did happen. You were hearing Sheriff Chad Kronister
telling me about what he observed and what was observed
by others at the time Don Lewis goes missing straight
(06:57):
out to you special guests joining us attorney and longtime
confidant of Don Lewis, who I believe is dead, Joseph Ritch,
Joseph Fritz. I'm gonna go back to the time that
he goes missing. But what do you make of the
new bombshell that this document? The will is absolutely no
doubt about it forged. I think I've got Joseph Fritz
(07:19):
with me. Is he still upwards a satellite drop? Joy there? Okay,
let me know when we get him back. In the meantime,
I'll circle to Tom Vastrick, forensic document examiner, handwriting expert.
Same question to you, Tom, what do you make of it? Well?
In conducting the examination of the Durable Family Power of
(07:40):
Attorney and the will, both of which were created on
November twenty one and nineteen ninety six, I was struck
by the uncanny similarity between each set of signatures, not
only Don Lewis's signatures, but the two witness signatures and
the notary signatures. When I crossed compared each of those
(08:04):
sets of signatures, they were just ridiculously similar to each other.
It wasn't an exact replication, because if you have exact replication,
what that means it's just a copy of one signature.
But it was nearly exact replication to the extempt that
I was very confidently able to oppine that what I
(08:25):
was dealing with with, at least mister Lewis's signature, was
that these signatures were traced, and they were traced using
a model from a marriage record that had been executed
and filed with the county five years before the execution
(08:46):
of the will. We wait, Guys with me is handwriting
expert Thomas Vastrik, and he says the will, signatures and
power of attorney documents related to Don Lewis, the long
missing husband of Carol Baskin, are forged. Now, let me
understand what you're saying. Typically, I think handmriding experts, and
(09:09):
I've direct and cross examined quite a few of them,
they like it when your signature matches your last known signature.
But you're telling me that all the signatures had basically
been forged, not just Don Lewis, that like the witness,
the notary, everybody's was forged. Well, I understand as a
(09:31):
document examiner, I don't use the word forged because that's
a legal term. But it's my opinion that these signatures
are traced traced. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna follow your
example and say traced traced off the marriage document or
Don Lewis. Yes, I do not have the source document
(09:51):
for either the notary or the two other witnesses, so
I have to leave open the possibility that of each
set of signatures. There were three three, three signatures of
each of the notary and the two witnesses. Since I
do not have the model signature from anyone else other
(10:12):
than Lewis, all I could say at this point is
at least two of them were traced. One of them
could be genuine. Theoretically which one was? We're traced, tom Well,
I can't say for a fact until such time as
I locate a model signature for them. But with mister Lewis,
we have found the model signature. Now you told the
(10:34):
Clarion Ledger that Don Lewis's signature was traced on the
will the power of attorney as well time stories with
(10:59):
Nancy Grace. Guys, if the signature of Don Lewis was traced,
Carol Baskin as in a whole world of trouble. Now,
handwriting experts can disagree, So maybe she can find a
handwriting example expert there will say something entirely different. In
(11:22):
the meantime, listen to this. The investigation indicated Carol had
left Wildlife on Easy Street to drive to a nearby
store named Albertson's to pick up some milk by products
for the catch. This is at three o'clock in the morning,
her car broke down and Carol and ran into her brother,
(11:43):
who was accompanied by another deputy. The second deputy gave
her a ride back to her home. After that, Carol
indicated the last time that she saw her husband was
just several hours later and never seen again. And I
don't know, but I would have hoped that the detectives
(12:03):
would have pursued that and made sure that there was
nothing out of the ordinary about that. Maybe if you
have a sheriff that's in there that's saying, you know, hey,
this guy's kind of crazy and you know, dementia and
he does this all the time, he's probably in you know,
maybe the sheriff's partner would drag your feet at that
(12:24):
point and be like, well, you know, let's just wait
and see where it goes. Guys, you're taking you're hearing
the movements of Carol baskin the night that Don Lewis
seemingly vanished off the face of the earth, or did
he now. New allegations are being raised because in the
last hours, a handwriting expert says there's no doubt about
(12:45):
it in his mind. Don Lewis, Carrol Baskin's missing husband
signature was traced on the will. So what about the
witness that says they saw him sign the will? Guess
what that witness Hazri Canton and says, no, they did
not witness him signing the wheel. That in itself is
(13:05):
a problem. And why is Carol Baskin out getting tiger
milk at three am in the morning? When Don Lewis
goes missing? To leave, I page climb online dot Com
investigative reporter leave, Let's start at the beginning. Let's start
with him going missing. What can you tell me? So?
(13:27):
Carol Baskin said, the last time that she saw her husband,
Don Lewis, was twenty three years ago, August eighteenth, nineteen
ninety seven, and she said that the last thing that
he said to her was that he was leaving early, early,
early the next morning to transport cars to Costa Rica.
He visited there often and he was reported missing August nineteenth,
(13:51):
nineteen ninety seven. And then days later, his van was
found abandoned at the airport forty miles away from the sanctuary,
and the keys were in the floorboard in a brief
his briefcase was found inside. You know, I spoke in
depth with people at that airport and they indicate that
(14:12):
it's so small they would definitely have seen Don Lewis
pulling in. Guys, we are talking about a bobshell allegation
made in the last hours that the will signed by
Carol Basket's missing husband Don Lewis was forged. Straight out
to Cheryl mccollin, Director Coalcase Research Institute, way in Fancy,
(14:35):
My issue is the pre and post behavior of Caryl Basket.
So if she went to that store at three am,
how many times prior had she ever done that? I
want to know that. The second thing, excuse me, you
and I or in a career Nancy, where people come
(14:57):
to us if anything criminally has gone on with a
loved one in their family. Even Chucky Mask, his mama
reached out to your brother, who immediately came to you.
I mean, they just do that. I want to know
why her brother has not been front and center on
this thank He didn't put out any posters, he didn't
become the family spokesperson, he didn't go to the sheriff
(15:18):
and say, didn't We've got to find my brother in law.
He's been virtually ma that I can find So forget
Carol not searching and not putting up posters and not
offering a reward. The lawman and the family didn't do
it either. Back to forensic document examinery handwriting expert Tom Vastrik, Tom,
how did you get involved in the case? I was
(15:39):
asked to sunducting examination for a couple of different newspapers,
one in Tampa and one in Jackson, Mississippi. And it
was the investigative reporters that submitted the documentation to me
for examination. And what documents were you examining? Well? In
addition to the will, the durable power turn, I was
(16:01):
provided the marriage record form. I was provided a number
of different notarized document notorization documents from the notary and
about twenty documents with mister Lewis's signature on the joining me. Now,
I think we've managed to get a satellite up. Is
(16:21):
a longtime friend and lawyer for missing husband Don Lewis.
Joseph Fritz. Joseph Fritz, thank you, thank you for being
with us. I got a question for you. Have you
heard the latest bombshell that, according to at least one
handwriting expert, that will was traced, that signature is not
(16:43):
Don Lewis's. Well, first, I want to correct something. It's
not a will. It's a part of attorney. Part of
attorney handles your affairs while you're alive. It dies with
the person. Only a testamentary trust for a will can
handle it. Patrick. He is saying, actually that the will
and the power of attorney were both traced off the
(17:06):
marriage record. I don't much care about the will, huh.
I don't care about that. She managed to move their
money and assets and property via the power of attorney,
not the will. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on,
hold on. You're talking lawyer talk talk, regular people talk.
You're saying that the power of attorney is what Carol Baskin,
(17:27):
according to you, used to move all the money and assets,
not the will. Too had too because he wasn't declared
dead for five years later. Yes, brilliant, Yes, absolutely, So
let me tell you. Let me point out some mills. Yeah,
Carol certifies that that's her signature on the power of
(17:48):
attorney because she used that power of attorney to transfer
all of their assets. Okay, hold on, let me let
me interpret what you're saying as a lawyer. So Don
Lewis goes miss. But even though she is the now
sole beneficiary of all of his money, if he dies
or quote disappears, that's a funny clause. And a will,
(18:11):
all the money's gonna go to hurt. But until he
is declared dad, which takes five years in that jurisdiction,
she can't do anything under the will, but under a
power of attorney, which gives somebody control over your state
when you're incapacitated or missing, the power of attorney can
move all your money anyway they want to. Now I
(18:35):
get why you don't care about the will. That threw
me for a loop, just for a moment, But now
I get it. Okay, let me rephrase my question. What
do you make of it? Joseph Frit's, long time attorney
and confidant of Don lewis that at least one handwriting
expert says the power of attorney and will were traced
(18:55):
off the marriage document. Somebody said at my office had
had the pictures and was able to lay one over
the other on their cell phone and they are a
perfect match. Even I agree with that. Um, I believe
it was traced heard several handwriting. I think there's as
many as six and ready experts. Now I think it's
(19:16):
up to six. One of one of them m is
the one that did to take Kazynski Uni bomber case. Wow,
that's not shabby. No no, no, no, that's high high, high,
high high. You know things, A high paid expert right there. Hey,
Joseph Fritz, have you ever in court? Because I have
(19:36):
brought on a handwriting expert once, really, because I can't
find many lawyers that have done it, so I always
like to, you know, brag that I have done it
many times. But my first one was a bank robbery note.
Lucky for me, that bank robber was also dyslexic, so
he would flip letters and he did the same thing
(20:00):
in the bank robbery note that he did in his
handwriting exemplar. So that was very persuasive. But that's where
I learned about how you make your A and your
B and how you dot your eye and literally cross
your tea. What case did you have where you used
a handwriting expert? Believe it or not? I think was
(20:20):
it a bankruptcy adversary proceeding? Oh? I do believe it.
People will lie about money, and that's what I think
we may have here. So you don't expect a perfect
likeness for every signature. There should be some derivation and spacing.
(20:40):
But what did you observe when you put one over
the other. Joseph Fritz identical, just identical, perfect match time
(21:03):
stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the disappearance
and as Joseph Fritz and I belie death of Don Lewis.
Now we have one handwriting expert who has actually looked
at the documents, very well respected in his profession, Tom Vastrik,
(21:23):
and he says it was traced. That's the way what
we call forged. All right, if they were forged, Joseph Fritz,
what does that mean, Well, it means that she wrongfully
and has to at least be called to do that
because she says that that's her signature. She is what
(21:43):
we would call stops for the diamond because she used
that power of attorney to transferred properties, would move moneies, tshit,
use any of the Indian things she had to do.
She used it and said that's that's me. I believe
that it was a forgery. From what I've said, I
believe the statue of limitations has run twenty one years ago.
(22:04):
Thank you, Sheriff's department. The statue on forgery has run.
But there's a lot bigger kettle of fish brewing than
the forgery, the alleged forgery. Of course, of course there is,
and there's no statue. There's no limitation on that. But
my point is I was interviewed after Tiger came by
our sheriff's department, finally twenty four years late. But anyway,
(22:27):
I was, and I mentioned something about the power of attorney.
The two signatures have done in the cattle on the
same same document, And our Sheriff's department said that they
had a handwriting expert too. Would you deal with a
murdered detective or homicide detective? Information is a one way streat.
(22:48):
You never told me what they're what they're handwriting, guys said,
But he said they had examined subal documents, quite a
few documents. Did you ask him, Yes, I did. I
just got I got a brick wall information. There's a
one way street with a detective. You know that, you
know you know who is that way the FEDS. And
I was a fed myself before I became a violent
(23:09):
crime prosecutor. You try to get the Feds to tell
you anything. Forget about it, guys. Now another development, if
you can imagine that in the case of Tiger King,
Joe Exotic and Carol Baskin, more than one handwriting expert
has come forward to say Don Lewis's will and power
of attorney were traced, traced overly. When you were in
(23:32):
grammar school or high school, you wanted to sign your
parents name to something, hold it up to the window
and trace it over. Not that I would ever do that,
but that's what we're talking about, and regular people talk forged.
Forged would be the legal term. But what about all
of those witnesses, those witnesses that claim they were there
(23:54):
when the will was signed? Could you please play cut eleven.
Take a listen to what Sheriff Chad Kronister tells me.
One of the individuals who came forward and said that
she witnessed all the signatures fast forward from nineteen ninety
seven to two thousand and six. She came forward said
she felt pressured at the time to say that it
(24:16):
was signed by everyone, and then she wanted to recant
her story and said she did not witness the signatures. Well,
who pressured her to write to sign that she saw
Don Lewis sign as will who pressured her. According to her, well,
there's one person that's not here any longer, so I
(24:36):
think we could all deduct the fact that it had
to be Carol. And I think she says that in
her statement, I'm pretty confident. She says that she to
prove her allegiance to Carol, that she felt pressured into
saying that she witnessed those signatures. And again as time
goes forward, she feels more comfortable once to get off
her chest, calls investigators with our office and says, hey, listen,
(25:00):
I have to tell you I didn't witness that will
being signed. That is a huge bombshell that a witness
comes forward, Cheryl McCollum, you're the Cold Case Research Institute
director on a will, when the witness to the will
comes forward and goes, I really didn't see what I
(25:21):
said I saw. That's huge, Cheryl McCollum. That is tremendous.
And not get that, Nancy. Every single person that watch
that series Tiger King Fall firsthand. When Carol Baskin wants
to put on a full court prayer, you want to
talk about pressure, She comes after you with everything she got.
(25:42):
She brings other nonprofits in, She starts creating ways to
change laws to come after you. She makes comments and newspapers.
She does all of this before you ever even meet her.
You know, I'm thinking back, and I mean talking about
taking somebody's comment with a box of sault. How about
a pound of sault to everything? Joe Exotic says, don't
(26:03):
get mad at me, but that man lies every time
his lips moved, So I can't really put any credence
in what he says. But now that handwriting experts are
coming forward, Now that we know at least one witness
is saying I did not witness the will being signed,
(26:23):
this is changing the landscape of this case drastically. I've
been withholding judgment on Carol Baskin because it's hard to
have a clear head when all you're hearing is hype. Well,
you don't know the real facts. But I keep going
back to when he disappeared. Do you remember, hey, let's
(26:45):
hear cut eighteen. There was never any reward posted for
his disappearance. Was there ever an online plea or a
televised plea to help find him? Buy Carol Baskin again,
it's my understanding there was never any type of overt
action taken to try to find out where her husband was.
(27:11):
Do you know, Sheriff Chronster, if she came to the
Sheriff's office day in, day out, week by week trying
to find out what's the latest in my husband's disappearance.
I do know that the answers no, that that never happened.
Even as recent as two eleven. Was the last communication
that we had for her, And that's when we asked
(27:32):
her to come in to take a polygraph, and she declines,
said it wouldn't vindicate her of any type of in
any way, shape or form, and at the same time,
it wouldn't prohibit the Sheriff's office from taking future criminal
actions against her, So she declined to take a polygraph.
Not only does Tom Vastek forensic document examiner, handwriting experts
(27:53):
say the will the power of attorney was traced translation
forged their handwriting. The expert Willa Smith concurs and says
the signature was quote the product of tracing. And it
goes on and on. Now six experts to Joseph Fritz,
(28:14):
friend and longtime lawyer for Don Lewis, which another piece
of listening to this Jackie circumstantial evidence. Fritz has been
his lawyer and his friend for twenty plus years, but
he doesn't go to Fritz to get his will drawn up.
I mean, Fritz probably has one space to intern operating procedure.
(28:37):
Will is printed out of the computer and sign it bam.
I find that very, very odd that he didn't go
to Fritz to write up his will. So, Joseph Fritz,
do you remember when you heard Don Lewis was missing?
A yeah from Ann McQueen. And what first crossed your
(28:57):
mind when you learned he was gone? A play? You know,
That's what people, friends, relatives I murder victims say all
the time when the person goes missing. They go, oh,
they're not missing, they're dead. I can tell you that
right now. And that's not just a jumping the gun.
That's based on years of observation. So at this juncture,
(29:23):
Joseph Fritz, when you'll look back on the time around
when Don Luis goes missing, do you remember how Carol
Baskin went out that night at three am for tiger
milk and then her car broke down and she had
a witness from the Sheriff's depart become help her. And
it was therefore documented every which way that she was
(29:45):
on her own out and about at the time he disappeared.
Do you remember that I've heard that, Yeah, but I
remember that I didn't see it. Do you remember hearing
about his vehicle being found at the airport with his
briefcase and his keys in it? Would he have ever
done that? He could be a little stead of brain,
but he was. He was together. He might have left
(30:07):
his keys somewhere or something, but he wouldn't leave a
van and a briefcase and papers and keys and everything.
He wouldn't do it. What if anything can be done?
We know that the Statue of limitations which says a
criminal case you can only even brought for X number
of years after the crime on forgery, on any alleged forgery.
I'm sure Carol Baskin denies this. What do we do now, Fritz?
(30:33):
Somewhere in the course of time, somebody needs to call
this what it is, a murder investigation. It's not even
classified as that, as last I heard. How hard is that? Really?
Want to point out? Go ahead, the sheriff can flip
a switch and it's a murder investigation. It's not hard
at all. You don't need to open something. I mean
(30:53):
it's open, it's just idling, kind of been neutral. But
the interine is running. Cheryl McCollum, how hard would it be.
It's not hard at all. And I honestly believe that's
the scene done right now. I believe that the Sheriff's
apartment is working it to see what they can piece together.
I know for a fact they've reinterviewed people. And I
(31:13):
think this case is kind of in overdrive, reckless minute
because Nancy, here's one of the most important things to me.
Carol Baskins supposedly went and picked that van up and
drove it home. Yet when that van was processed, there
was no fingerprints in it none. Well, her should have
been in it. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, take
(31:49):
a listen to our cut fifteen. What Chrimester says about
the disappearance of Don lewis we have a little window
there when who's this appearance occurred from the day almost
two days that it took for her to report him,
and a couple of days that people had besides her
that hadn't seen him. You have a few days in
(32:10):
there that I believe that's when that's when he was killed.
So we've got about a four hour, excuse me, a
four day window where he could have been killed. Nobody
saw him at Big Cat, no one, no banker, no friend,
no lawyer. Nobody saw him for about two days before
(32:33):
he went to Costa Rica. That's it. No telephone calls,
no business transactions. So again I think that these are
more details that only make make this death more suspicious
and only lead us to believe that again it was
a homicide. You know, Karen start with me. New York
(32:54):
psychologists joining us at karen start dot com. Karen, I've
just been thinking a lot of about the witness that
now comes forward claiming that she did not witness Don
Lewis signed the will, that she was pressured into it.
You know, I think that you know, according to Freud,
(33:17):
your personality is formed by the time you're four. And
the twins told me the other day that one of
their classmates texted them that they wanted the answers because
they've both made as in math and John David made
a ninety nine point eight. They wanted the twins to
(33:40):
give them answers to the final exam. They said no,
And these were some of their good little friends, and
they both said, no, don't worry. I've looked at their
text to make sure they're telling me the truth. How
do you suddenly one day just flick a switch, I
(34:01):
decide you're going to do the wrong thing. And something
as important as a multi million dollar estate like Don
Lewis's was so much riding on it. What kind of
coercion would make you just go, sure, I'll fake it. Well, Nancy,
this sounds to me very self serving. The coercion I
(34:23):
would expect, or maybe smile had to do with the
money and how much money she might have been getting.
But what's interesting is that this witness didn't seem to
come forward until everyone started to question what happened to him,
and they question what happened to him because of the
success of the documentary. All of a sudden, there was
(34:46):
this glaring gap of this man. He disappeared, How did
he disappear? What became of him? And so this witness,
I'm assuming just decided, you know what I'm going to
get in a lot of t i'd better come forward.
And I think that's what happened. I see what you're saying.
It's not a sudden fit of veracity, or suddenly you
(35:08):
take off your devil's horns and put on a halo.
All right, you think, okay, he's missing. He was killed
for money? Maybe, And I'm the one that witnessed the will,
row I better cough up. Now we'll listen to what
the sheriff has to say about this. Do you believe,
Sheriff Chronister that Don Lewis's will was forged? Believe this
(35:34):
will was forged? I don't. A couple of different reasons.
One someone who said they witnessed at the time, at
the time, the signatures recancerr story, and again I think
the biggest part is the first time ever hearing that
someone put a disappearance clause to make sure that they
received the full benesit full benefits of an executed will. Guys,
(35:56):
you're hearing what Chronister says if he thinks the will
was forged. Now, what did you say, Joseph Fritz? As
six hand running experts have said it was traced, I
believe it's up to six And now I've heard a
body language expert chime in too, with the pictures of her. Again,
Chronister just made the same thing about the will of
(36:18):
the will of the will. We're talking about the will.
The will never got probated. It was never a thought.
It never went to court because he died owing nothing,
owning nothing, because everything had been transferred with the power
of attorney. I don't care about the will. Okay, then
let's talk about the power of attorney. How about that? Okay?
So what do we do now, Fritz, What if anything
can we do now? Well, the touch of limitations criminally
(36:39):
has run. Civilly, it has run. They're both five years
on written well, five years on a felony and five
years on a civil suit to recover the money for
the estate. The will of the will is obviously no good.
I wouldn't probate it it. I wouldn't put it into
probate court because everybody said it's for it. Okay, I
(37:02):
believe it. What you have to do is plot on
and get the murder indictment. Well, here's the thing, without
a body, how is that going to happen? To Cheryl
McCallin direct to Coal Case Research Institute, Well, mean to
you and I both know there's some really extraordinary people
that have had great success with nobody cases. What you're
gonna do is you're gonna build this thing up as
(37:24):
a murder investigation, and you're gonna combine every single piece
of this puzzle. And I like the fact they have
the will and the power of attorney, not how she
might have used them, but to show when her mind,
if his body's recovered, I've got the will if it's not,
and I've got the power of attorney. Either way, it
game owned for her. She covered her basis. So you
(37:45):
look at like what you're doing and the evidence that
you're bringing out. You've got people like Jerry Mitchell and
ripper Jack and Nosey Wren. They're doing some incredible things online.
Just like don't f with cats, honey, this is don't
f with bigger cats. People are putting this thing together,
and they're putting a ton of the piece of this
puzzle right out in front of God's Country. A big,
(38:07):
a big piece of this puzzle is Anne McQueen, who
was Donald Lewis's executive assistant. I want you to take
a listen to what she says on Netflix. I got
a phone call stating that the office alarm had gone
off and Carol was there. Her and Kenny Farr had
cut the locks on the gate cut, the locks on
(38:28):
the office cut, the power to the trailer, got the water,
got the sewer. The cops come because the alarm went off,
and McQueen come up because that was that's her office.
You know what I mean, that's she's been here for years.
There were two wheels, and there were two power attorneys
in my office in a box underneath my desk. But
(38:51):
whatever paperwork or whatever they needed, there was nothing that
the cops could do the stopular wife thinking anything. The
will and the power attorney, they were all taken out
the office that day. I was an executor for both
of their wills. I was the power of attorney for
(39:11):
both of them. Who was the power of attorney on
the new documents Carol produced? I mean so to Joseph Fritz,
longtime friend and lawyer for Don Lewis, Carroll Baskin's missing husband,
let me understand what McQueen is saying. This is Don Luis,
this long time twenty plus years executive assistant, that she
(39:33):
had been the executor on the power of attorney and
the will. There were two copies of them in a
box under her desk. She gets a call because the
alarm went off goes to her office. This is after
Lewis disappears. She gets to her office and there is
Carol Baskin. The will and the power of attorney is gone,
(39:57):
and now there's a new will and power of attorney.
She and McQueen is no longer. The executor is now
Carol Baskin. Do I have the chronology right? I'm sure
you do. Dang, okay, leave my page. What else can
you tell me about the investigation? Now? Well, Nancy, this
investigation has been reopened. The sheriff says that he gets
(40:19):
six tips a day about this case, all thanks to
the Netflix series Tiger King, and the more that this
case is in the public, the more tips he's going
to get. This is not slowing down anytime soon. To you,
Joseph Fritz, what do you think is going to take
for a murder investigation and a murdered case to move forward.
(40:41):
I've always said that somebody has to stub their toe
legally and want to get out of jail free card
and spill the beans on what exactly happened. And I've
heard the sheriff say that, you know, all deals are
on the table, So that's what I think is going
to break the case. Who would in the position to
know all that, Joseph, but know what to know any
(41:05):
of the details that would be probitive in a murder
case beside masking the sure if I said multiple people
were involved, I believe. I believe as he does, and
I believe that one did the murder, one conspired to
do a murder. Your contract. Yet, as far as I'm concerned,
there's all sorts of people around there that you know
(41:26):
that have ever could have information. And to you, Tom Vastric,
forensic document examiner, handwriting expert, do you have any doubt
in your mind that that power of attorney and that
will the signature of Don Lewis was traced. No, I
don't have any doubt. I'm remind at all. And I'd
(41:48):
also want to bring up something You've mentioned that one
of the witnesses as free candid, and I want to
remind you there's also a second witness and a notary.
I would be interested in what they have to say.
Oh brilliant, You're so right, Tom Vastrick. And could you
(42:09):
tell me one more time? I mean, I'm just a JD.
I'm not a handwriting expert. Why you're convinced that Lewis's
signature was traced. It is far, far too similar with
each other. Every every time you sign your name, there's
a level of variation from one signature to the next,
(42:29):
and these are just way, way too similar. I did
not find this a difficult determination at all, So it
was easy. Nothing's ever easy in arm our field, but
it's not difficult. You know, you said something really interesting
just then, you said that there's a slight derivation every
time you sign your signature. Why do you what what derivation?
(42:53):
What's different? Well, you're you're talking about the Gurler control
of the human. You can you can't repeat that process
of complication like that with exact, precise replication. So there's
going to be that natural level of variation in virtually
anything that a human does, and it shows itself in
(43:15):
its handwriting through what we call natural variation. So when
you get multiple signatures that have the level of similarity
that you have here, it tells us that this is
not normal natural writing. Something is a miss. Now if
it was an exact replication, that would tell me what
I'm dealing with. Its copies of the same signature, because
(43:36):
that's the only way that can happen like with a
rubber stamp, or are scanning it onto a computer and
having it artificially placed onto a document. But when you
get this level of consistency between multiple signatures but still
just that little bit of differences one signature to another,
that is a characteristic tracing and really nothing else. All right,
(44:00):
Sheriff Cronister, it's in your court. I did that's a question.
If I can't, yes, jump in. Yeah. The handwriting folks
have have all reached the conclusion that they was traced.
I want to know anybody actually isamine the originals rather
than copies, because I hear a lot about indentation and
(44:21):
pressure on the paper that you can't pick up from
copies but you can from originals. Where's the originals who
examined it? What about it? Astrick? I don't know who
has the original? Well, Nancy less part of them at
the real world. She gave his guns lay the original. Well,
I can tell you this much. If the originals and
(44:42):
the copies under Anne McQueen's desk disappeared, God only knows
where this will really is, because in court you would
probably need you know. That's the highest and best, which
means the original We wait as just as unfalls Nancy
Grace crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com