March 27, 2025 • 42 mins
In the plethora of court documents filed in the last week, more of the prosecution’s case against Bryan Kohberger has been revealed. The state plans to enter a wide variety of evidence ranging from Kohberger’s educational records dating back to his time at Desales University, transactions made through Kohberger’s bank and Venmo, weather data from the night of the murders, and hours of surveillance footage. The defense desperate to have the evidence tossed.
The defense is filing to block the various pieces of evidence, claiming the state has delivered thousands of pages of documents and terabytes of video with no context of how it will be used against Kohberger in court. Anne Taylor is demanding the judge order prosecutors to explain how each item is relevant. Taylor says otherwise, it is ‘impossible’ for Kohberger to effectively confront this evidence.
In arguments against its inclusion, the defense reveals that prosecutors plan to enter into evidence records from Kohberger’s graduate studies in psychology at DeSales University. The filing says they have received discovery including Kohberger's school calendar, written course work, testing, emails, and syllabi from his time as a master’s student, and the attorneys fail to see its relevance. As part of his thesis, Kohberger worked with professors to develop a survey exploring how emotions influence a criminal’s decision making during the commission of a violent crime.
Kohberger also wants weather data from the night of the murders to be kept from the jury. The state plans to use records from the National Weather Service for November 12 and 13 to show Kohberger wouldn’t have had much luck “stargazing,” as his vague alibi claims. The reports, taken at the Pullman-Moscow Regional Airport, located roughly halfway between the two college towns, show fog, reduced visibility and low clouds at the time of the murders. Meteorologists say the fog was not thick enough to impede travel, but the night sky would only be clearly visible between breaks in the clouds.
A recent court filing also shows that defense attorneys want Venmo, PayPal, and bank records for the accused quadruple killer blocked from court. While the exact contents of these records are not discussed, the filing mentions a purchase from Under Armor on June 24, 2022, 5 months before the murders, and a purchase from Dick's sporting goods in the same month. The records likely also show Kohberger’s purchase of the Kabar knife suspected to be the weapon used in the murders.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Greg Morse - Partner at the law firm of King Morse; current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida); Former West Palm Beach Public Defender’s Office; Author: “The Untested” found on Amazon; website: kingmorse.com
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,” featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Sydney Sumner, Crime Online Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A bombshell in the Brian Coburger defense. Did Brian Coburger
actually buy a Dix Sporting Good black balaklava?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Why do I care?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Because it's the exact same mask drawn by the survivor
witness who lived through the murders that night. This as
Coburger fights tooth and nail to suppress a twelve page paper.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Why he wrote the paper in school?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
And it describes multiple murders, including the murder of a
white female with what else a knife, even including details
that she, the white female victim, would dig her fingernails
into her killer's skin and likely reveal DNA too close
(01:05):
for comfort. Coburger, I, Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Location of emergency, of the emergency.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
One that nine to one one call brings us all
back to the reality of what happened to four beautiful
University Idaho students slaughtered, as some say, butchered in their
own beds. And now the man charged with all four
(01:48):
murders is fighting tooth and claw to keep one tiny
Dick's Sporting Good purchase away from a jury. Why I
think I know why listen.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
No one is answering. I'm really confused right now.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, dude, what the Xanna was wearing all black? I'm
freaking out right now.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
No, it's like a ski mask.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Almost shut the up. Actually, like he had.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Something over his forehead and mouth. Bethany, I'm not kidding.
I'm so freaked out, So Amne. My phone is going
to die.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Come to my room. Run down here.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I'm screwed though, Yeah, I know, but it's better than
being alone.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
What you just heard is the contents of text messages
that were exchanged between the two survivors that were in
the scene of the murder, that were there that night
their four roommates were murdered. That's between Dylan Mortenson and
Bethany Funk. Now, Dylan Mortenson is describing he had something
(02:52):
over his forehead and mouth. I'm not kidding. I'm so
freaked out, She goes on.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Later, how can I say this?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Okay, you've seen on TV or crime shows, a movie
maybe where the witnesses is drawing, helped to draw a composite,
and they go, oh, no, the nose is too long,
the ears are too big, the eyebrowser this, the mouth
is different. She draws with her own hands the balaklava
(03:30):
that the intruder was wearing that night. I guess they
are fighting to keep that sketch and that purchase out.
Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now, Coberger trying to suppress a
slew of evidentiary items.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
A recent CORD filing shows that defense attorneys want Venmo,
PayPal and bank records for the accused quadruple killer blocked
from CORD. While the exact content of these records are
not discussed, the filing mentions a purchase from under Armour
on June twenty four to twenty twenty two, five months
before the murders, and a purchase from Dick's Sporting Goods
(04:13):
in the same month. The records likely also show Coburger's
purchase of the Kbar knife suspected to be the weapon
used in the murders.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
We were trying to determine what is it about these
purchases that they want so desperately to suppress.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh, did I mention a replacement knife?
Speaker 6 (04:34):
While a court filing last week confirmed that Coburger purchased
a k Bar knife and sharpener eight months prior to
the murders. A new filing alleges that Colberger's Amazon click
history also proves he was searching for a replacement in
the weeks after the murders. Defense attorneys may be planning
to counter the evidence with arguments that Amazon's algorithm simply
(04:55):
suggested an item based on his previous purchase history.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Times you just have so much evidence you don't know
which way to go. Straight out to Chris McDonough joining me.
You know him well, I found him on the interview Room.
He's the star of that on YouTube. But more important,
he's the director of the Cold Case Foundation and he
has worked over three hundred homicides. You first wave the
(05:23):
red flag about Amazon purchases. I guess you've heard about
the balaklava. I'm going to circle back to that. But
you went through an intense discussion and analysis of purchases
on Amazon, and now we know why Chris McDonough the
replacement knife. That's why they wanted that suppressed so desperately.
(05:48):
He leaves a crime scene. According to police, he's driving
that long, circuitous route that you and I have both
driven in the middle of the night, no street lines.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I nearly ran off the road three times.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Then he goes, well, well what what where is the
knife sheet?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So what does he do? It's the clicks.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You said it first, Chris mcdona. He doesn't want the
jury to know he was looking for a replacement knife.
He had already bought a knife a sheet and now
we know a knife sharpener.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's why they don't want us to know about the clicks.
Speaker 7 (06:26):
Chris, absolutely, Nancy. And what's interesting about this is for
some reason, they were on top of that almost within
two weeks after the homicides, and they you know, they
served a search warrant in November twenty in November twenty sixth,
(06:49):
and the search warrant returned December eighth of twenty twenty two.
And so the defense here is been working full time,
you know, to try to suppress those clicks, because that
is just damning evidence. And you're right, he then went
back to try to order a second looks like, you know,
(07:10):
knife and or sheath as kind of the old bait
and switch. If the authorities were onto it once he
discovered he actually lost if he's the guy, of course,
if he lost that you know sheath at the crime scene.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Right hey, you know, Chris, McDonald.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
When I was watching you on your show the interview Room,
you and your guests were going on and on about
the analytical data of Amazon. I'm like, where is this going?
I forced myself to listen to it. Of course I
was interested in it because I love any type of evidence.
If I don't even understand it at the moment, I
sense that it's important. And I could tell by what
(07:51):
you were saying those cliques that data was going to
be very important because it didn't necessarily result in a purchase.
But he's looking to re place the sheath that he
left behind. Okay, hold on. Joe Scott Morgan's joining me,
Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
Feet on Amazon, star of Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.
(08:14):
But for my purposes, he's a death investigator that has
investigated over one thousand death scenes. Joe Scott, you have
been taking a very close look at that Kbart knife,
and I'm wondering in your analysis, could you buy the
sheath separately or does it come with the knife?
Speaker 8 (08:34):
It comes with the knife. Actually, my beautiful bride, God
bless her, actually bought this knife for me and surprised
me with it, and it's not normally the type of
gifts that you get from someone who cares about you.
But she knew that we had been covering this case
and she wanted me to have this just so that
(08:55):
I could have it and feel the weight of it.
This sort of thing, and it comes with the sheath nancy,
So if you were to purchase a sheath separate, it
would have to come from the manufacturer. You would have
to order it specifically, or go out to some vendor
out there somewhere that could probably furnish you with maybe
(09:15):
a knockoff. But it's certainly not the original kbar knife.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I asked my husband for a flamethrower for Christmas and
he didn't give me one. I'm going to use this
as an example of the perfect gift.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Let me think this through. Let me think this through.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Cheryl McCollum is joining me, a Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, founder,
forensic expert and star of Zone seven podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I can't wait to see what those cliques are. I
haven't even gotten to the balaclava yet. Okay, I'm getting there,
but the clicks, the clicks, I'm like it's a Rubric's cuban.
I'm a Ruber's cuban. I'm trying to make it fit
right now. Do you think, Cheryl, that he was clicking
through trying to find a replacement sheath or was he
(10:02):
trying to find out if he could buy it separately
from the knife. Was he going to buy a whole
new knife and a sheaf to go?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Look here it is, there's not any blood on it.
What do you think, Cheryl.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
That's exactly what he was attempting to do. In my opinion,
he needed a replacement because the murder weapon. He had
to get rid of it because it was saturated with blood.
He knew he had lost or left the sheep behind.
He had to have a replacement, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hours, A.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Brian coburger purchased at Dick's Sporting Goods is offering bombshell
evidence in this case.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
You know Greg Morris joining me.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
He is a high profile lawyer that's tried more cases,
probably than he can count. Greg Morris partner at Being Morse,
author of the Untested on Amazon. Greg, I know how
you and your friends in the defense bar.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Love to discredit an eyewitness.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
In fact, it's so commonly done it's laid out in
black and white in the criminal Code as if it's law.
The ways to attack an eyewitness? Or do you wear glasses?
Were you wearing them that night? How far away were
you from the scene, what was the lighting? Were you distracted?
Were you inebriated? Were you on prescription drugs or anything else?
(11:38):
It's like one, two, three, four it it's by rote.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
But what about this? What about this?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
With no urging, no urging, no tutorial. You have the survivor.
It's Dylan Mortenson and she's texting that not eight that night,
she has.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Just seen the intruder.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
She cracks her door and looks out and she sees him,
and I guess she shut it and moved back. She
is the witness that describes the intruder dressed in dark clothing,
tall white male with bushy eyebrows that night. She says, basically,
at the time of the murders, he had something over
(12:25):
his forehead and mouth I'm not kidding, I'm so freaked out.
Then she draws, let's take a look at her drawing.
I sent you a picture of it, Greg because I
knew it would send chills down your spine. She draws
a bottle clava and guests, who buys a botta clava?
(12:48):
Do you have a bottle clava?
Speaker 10 (12:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I'm just curious. I don't, do you. I have three
of them, don't you? So I have three of them?
Speaker 11 (12:55):
Yes, very common thing to buy, especially in Idaho for
the winter where the there is cold.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
The way to.
Speaker 11 (13:01):
Attack this is the commonality of it. I saw the
drawing she made, the person made. It's a common thing.
Speaker 10 (13:11):
It's nothing unique about it.
Speaker 11 (13:13):
And the way to challenge this, to try to keep
it out, which is very difficult, is that you're going
to show this is a common purchase by people. There's
no linking it to the case. There's no linking this
specific one coburger bought to this case. So it's a
generic mask that probably hundreds of thousands of people have
purchased from Dix over the years, maybe millions. So that's
(13:36):
how you challenge it. Very common. I've dealt with this
with guns. When a thirty eight is used to kill
someone and there's no ballistics, and they find a thirty
eight at the suspect house, you challenge it on its
commonality that it's prejudicial to introduce it and link it
to the defendant.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And and you mad more, well done, very well done.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Let me throw this at you.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
What about the purchase of a k bar knife and
a shape and a ball of clava?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Hit me?
Speaker 11 (14:03):
Well, Nancy, I've been doing this for twenty five years
and my job has gotten much harder. This is a
criminology major, so I would flip the mode of which
is pretty clear for the prosecution. He was doing the
Leopolden mog type thing, that he knew about it and
decided to buy this knife afterwards for his studies or something.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Wait what rewind rewind sadly, I'm going to hold you
to the facts. Sidney Summer joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Sydney.
He's half right and half wrong. He's right about a
balla clava. Let's just say, in Idaho, maybe many people
have them to ski. But then let's throw in the
(14:46):
clicking for a replacement knife and sheath.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
But he said that was after the murders.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But isn't it true, Sidney Summer, that Coburger purchased a
k bar knife exactly like the one that was used
in the murders based on the sheath that was left.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Behind far prior to the murders.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
In fact, I recall he bought the knife and the
sheath back in March of twenty twenty two, I mean
eight months before the murders.
Speaker 10 (15:16):
Yes, Nancy, that's quite a long time to have that
knife in your possession before doing this, and the balaklava
was purchased even further back.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
The timing, Sydney.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
The timing is so important because, based on my research,
he made the Dick's purchase of the Balla clava eleven
months before, on jan ten, twenty two. He makes the
knife sheath purchase eight months before March twenty twenty two.
(15:50):
We also have, I don't know if it's going to
come into evidence or not, the purchase of one of
those dicky outfits which there you go, which you could
very easily.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Just zip down and get out of it and then
throw it away.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Then we've got the clicking and attempt to purchase of
a replacement knife in sheath after the murders. Okay, do
I have those dates correct? Because Morse is right you
can fight back on the Bolla clava, Yeah, I get it,
But can you fight back on the Bolla clava that
the witness describes identical to that purchase, the knife, the sheath,
(16:32):
the Dickey's uniform, They replacement knife, the replacement sheath.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I mean it's adding up Sydney.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Absolutely, Nancy. It's very overwhelming, and the defense is fighting
tooth and nail to keep all of this out. Their
latest arguments. Just last night got the Amazon account is
shared by Coberger's family members.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Tell me exactly what's going on.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
One of the roommates's pass off and she's strong class.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Oh and they tell some men in their house.
Speaker 10 (17:05):
Ok.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, did you see the video of two of the
victims at the grub truck. It was late in the night,
the morning going into the morning hours that they were
murdered in their own beds. For some reason, Brian Coburger's
defense team is trying to suppress this and a lot
of other video which we're going to get to.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I believe much.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Of that video is going to show his vehicle en
route to the murder scene. But can I just comment
for our guests, shopping lists are murder. That's the general
consensus when it comes to Brian Coberger. We've been talking
about the Amazon clicks. We've been talking about the exporting good.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It goes on and on.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
But when you don't know a horse, look at his
track record. I believe we're going to find many other
items in Coburgers records he's trying to suppress.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Isn't this right?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Sydney summer, PayPal purchases, Venmo purchases, Amazon purchases and searches
and much more. There's going to be more that we
find that is damning in Brian Coberger's shopping list.
Speaker 10 (18:24):
I think that's absolutely true, Nancy. They still have not
unsealed any information, any reasoning as to why all of
Coburger's financial records are relevant to the case and what
evidence they will produce. The defense has made a small
comment that it's supposed to show his spending habits, but
other than that, we don't know why all of these
(18:46):
bank records have been pulled.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I guarantee you we're going to find cleaning supplies. Joining me,
Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case
Research Institute. I'm sure you recall our investigation into Brian
Walsh after the murder and I believe dismemberment of his
wife Anna, her body has never been found.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Listen to what he.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Bought at Low's eryl five five gallon buckets, a handsaw,
forty eight cherry cloth towels, a full iti wreck, full
coverage suit, shoe guards, mop, a cutting tool called snips,
two hundred disposable rags, trash bags, Murphy oil soap.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Then he goes to another store. Yeah, let's sprinkle it around.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh, there he is looking at that. That was the
purchase at Low's. And there he is at CBS. He
buys thirteen different types of hydrogen peroxide. Then he goes
to stopping shop, three sixty four ounce jugs of ammonia.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
He goes to home.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Goods, three area rugs and scented candles. I believe one
of his searches was how long till the body starts
to smell?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
At home depot? Just to round it out, three.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Five gallon bucket kits with leak proof lids, a hatchet,
plastic sheeting, twenty four pounds of baking soda, and another
Tyrek suit. Wow, talk about some clean up, Cheryl McCollum.
That was Brian walshon I'm very curious why with all
of his analysis, you know, there's just nothing like the
(20:19):
real thing, right, Cheryl, You can study about it all
the way through your PhD, but when it comes right
down to committing mass murder details, the devil is in
the details, Cheryl McCollum.
Speaker 9 (20:30):
Always, and Nancy, this is going to go straight into
the prosecution's timeline. You know, you may look at Israel
Key's list and think, oh, this guy's going camping, till
you know how to read it. When you look at
the purchases and these searches, those are really going to
be critical. And you've got a knife with the sheet
and the mask. It's not just you know, something briskian.
(20:54):
And when you're looking at Coburger specifically and the eye
witness that he left alive in her drawing, this you know,
overall shopping list is a roadmap to his plotting and
planning of this murder, and these things are going to
be weaved into this timeline, just like his cell phone
pings and his traffic ticket.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You know, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, I believe that there
are certain personalities and this does not rise to an
insanity defense. They can't help, but very compulsively, some would
say anal compulsively make plans. I'm sure you recall it's
in your jurisdiction. That's why I save this for you.
Robert Blake, who absolutely orchestrated the murder of his wife,
(21:38):
Bonnie Lee Bakley. Listen to his shopping list. Now, I
got this from the prosecutor's complaint against him. He had
his hitch person called Well purchase a grizzly shopping list.
It included two shovels, a small sledge, a crowbar, a
(21:59):
twenty five cow gun, old rugs, duct tape, draino pool, acid,
and lie and he wrote it down in a list. Bethany,
I wonder you've no coburger had to make a list.
Warning he's innocent until proving guilty. But can they not
help themselves?
Speaker 12 (22:19):
Nancy, you talked about the meticulous planning, and as I've
said so many times before on your show, sociopaths, and
in particular psychopaths, they're the same as socia paths, but
you have the addition of cruelty. In terms of their personality,
they are very empty and internally they don't get excited
by the things you and I do, and because of that,
(22:40):
they use cruelty to get sexual excitement.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Nancy, listen that Robert Blake.
Speaker 12 (22:45):
It would have been so much cheaper just to get
a divorce, right, I mean, you know, just to send
her on her mary Way. But no, he wanted to
He wanted her off this earth. He didn't want her
anywhere around. That's a little bit different from Brian Coburger,
who I believe actually this was very thrilling for him.
So I think what we're going to find on his
computer is SNM porn, rape videos, maybe child pornography. I'm
(23:11):
going to be very interested in what motivates him sexually,
what we see on his computer in his digital life,
and that how that also links him to the crime.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
We also know about Natalie Keepers and David Eisenhower plotting
the murder of a little twelve or thirteen year old
girl in Nicole Level and they go to I think
a barbecue joint and make a list of all the
cleaning supplies and items they're going to need to kill
the little girl and to clean up her body was
(23:43):
found naked on the side of the road. It had
been wiped down. There's Nicole wiped down with wet wipes.
So you know, Sidney Sumner, the shopping list is damning.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Coburn.
Speaker 10 (24:01):
Absolutely, there's just no way around this, Nancy. It's information
that's been speculated or known for a long time, and
it's really interesting to see it coming together in the
States case, because.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
How do you explain that.
Speaker 10 (24:15):
I mean, I was talking about this with my fiance
last night. He has a balaklava for hunting when it's dark.
You want to keep the rest of your face as
dark as possible when you're sitting in a blind hunting
a deer. What other reasonable explanation do you have for
a babba clava? We said skiing earlier, Idaho does get cold.
(24:36):
But I asked him, would you ever wear this in public?
If you weren't doing something that required it, if you
weren't skiing, if you weren't hunting, would you ever wear
this out? And his flat answer is no. Why would
I ever have a reason to own this, to use
this on a regular basis, not for that purpose, She's not.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
In addition to damning shopping lists indicated by clicks on Amazon,
Dick Sporting good.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
At under Armour.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
We don't know why the Defense wants to suppress purchases
at under Armour yet, but we'll find out. In addition
to that, the defense is fighting tooth and claw to
suppress a twelve page assignment paper that Coburger wrote.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
In twenty twenty and more listen.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
In arguments against its inclusion, the defense reveals that prosecutors
plan to enter into evidence records from Colberger's graduate studies
in psychology at the Sales University. The filing says they
have received discovery including Colberger's school calendar, written coursework, testing, emails,
and syllabi from his time as a master's student, and
(26:00):
the attorneys failed to see its relevance. As part of
his thesis, Colberger worked with professors to develop a survey
exploring how emotions influence a criminal's decision making during the
commission of a violent crime.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's not just the creepy survey he sent out to
violent felons, asking them about how they felt at the
time of the crime, what went through their mind, how
did they pick their target, how did they get out,
how did they plan the whole thing?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Very very detailed questioning.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But now a twelve page assignment paper has emerged and
the defense is fighting to keep it suppressed away from
the jury City summer.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
What is it as.
Speaker 10 (26:43):
So this comes as a filing from the state rebutting
the defense's recent Hey, you've given us all of this discovery.
It's so much information. What are you trying to.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Do with this?
Speaker 10 (26:55):
It has to be kept out because I can't figure
out what you were going to use in court. So
the state came back and said, here is exactly what
we plan to use in court and filed this twelve
page assignment from Coburger that he completed as a master's
student at the Sales University. In this assignment, it's unclear
(27:16):
exactly what the instructions are if this was a scenario
that the professor came up with. But Coburger's job was
to go through every single step to secure and process
that crime scene for evidence. So it's a list and
list and lists of bullet points of what needs to
be done in what order, what tools you need, what
(27:38):
to look for. So it's very detailed, and it's coincidentally
a stabbing.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Prosecutors want to use a school paper that allegedly details
a crime SAYN, very similar to the crime SAYN in
the Idaho Sligh. Now listen to this, Cheryl McCollum. He
states in the paper as if he were processing the scene,
(28:05):
I should make sure to swab under her, the white
female murder victim, her fingernails to see if DNA of
the offender is there. She likely dug into his skin,
he wrote, in excruciating details. He describes how first responders
(28:27):
should handle the crime scene, using as an example, what
else a deceased white female murder weapon a knife?
Speaker 10 (28:39):
Yep.
Speaker 9 (28:40):
This is absolutely going to be something that the prosecution
is going to highlight because it shows he had knowledge,
He had knowledgeab where DNA could be found and located
on a murder victim. And then they're going to show
the purchase of the clothing and the mask and gloves
and other items to prevent that very thing from happening.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
What about it?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Straight back to you, Greg Morse, how do you defeat
bringing this in? Its basically a blueprint of the murders?
Speaker 11 (29:12):
So this is a common issue today.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It deals with rap lyrics.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
The most recent case is Alana's Vus, where rap lyrics
are allowed to come in and I think the paper
the defense has a really hard time. Their main argument
would be that there's no crime that occurred when the
paper was written, that it was after the crime so
in the rap lyric cases, the lyrics talk about a
(29:35):
crime that already occurred and specifically, and that's how the
prosecutors are getting this in. So I would defend this
on it's irrelevant. It happened before the crime, years before.
It was for a class that he was author, you know,
asked to write this paper. It doesn't provide any direct
evidence to the crimes, but it's a very hard it's
(29:57):
going to be very hard for the defense to challenge relevance.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Relevance.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
He describes a white female victim at a murder scene
digging her nails into her killer, and that an EMT
or a scene processor like Cheryl McCollum should get fingernail
clippings from the victim for potential DNA.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's why it's relevant. Listen.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Brian Coberger's defense team has revealed a major curveball for
his upcoming trial. A newly unsealed court filing discloses that
investigators found three unknown profiles from DNA underneath victim Medicine
Mogen's fingernails. Clippings from Mogan's left hand unearthed the samples,
but testing has not determined who they belonged to. Comparisons
(30:44):
of the profiles to Coburger's DNA were inconclusive. The accused
quadruple killer has not been confirmed or excluded as a source.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 13 (31:05):
The defense also wants almost all video evidence tossed, claiming
there's no way they can review it in time for trial.
At the crux of their argument is possibly a key
piece of evidence, footage from a nearby apartment complex on
Linda Lane just after four am November thirteen, twenty twenty two.
The footage shows a white sedan outside eleven twenty two
King Road. However, in its raw form, that footage alone
(31:26):
is twelve hours long, and defense attorneys say it will
be impossible for them to pinpoint the relevant clips.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Okay, that's total bs.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
In many cases, especially when you have something like a wiretap.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Or a stakeout, that video or audio can go on
for hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That's why you're getting paid to listen to it and
figure out what, if anything, is relevant. Hello, Ann Taylor,
that's your job. Quit whining. But let's talk about the
video itself, specifically video from a nearby apartment at Linda Lane.
Straight out to Chris mcdunna joining me, veteran homicide investigator,
(32:07):
star of the Interview Room on YouTube. Chris, you and
I have trumped through that neighborhood now, I don't even
know how many hours, and I noticed I didn't understand
the relevance of it, how close all of the buildings
are to each other. As I stood in front of
the King Road crime scene, I can look across and
tell you the type of dishwashing liquid sitting in the
(32:31):
kitchen window of the apartment across the street. It was
the green Paul Paul Mallin by the way, and I.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Could see it.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So I guarantee you this video from Linda Lane and
apartment nearby, it's got to be something damning. Hey, let's
see those steal shots from the video that we're talking about.
Could you describe this area, Chris mcdonna absolutely.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
Nancyen and you have stood there and it is a
lot closer than what it appears from like a Google
map or something like that. That area is you know,
it's off housing campus or excuse me, it's off campus
housing for students. It's surrounded by a couple of apartments.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Look at your monitor. We're showing it right now and
this is from the Veritas Quita's YouTube channel. Check it out.
I guarantee you this is going to be blown up
like nobody's business so the jury can see.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
This is one of a mini okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Dear, okay.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
So if you're driving straight up past eleven twenty two,
you get to this apartment complex at the end of
like a mini cul de sac, and then that's where
this car is turning, and if you can complete that
turn all the way around, it will take you behind
the residents at eleven twenty two where you could actually park.
(33:56):
And I think in this particular shot here he's actually
so only to the end. It appears the car is
backing up and then coming straight back down and parking
in front of eleven twenty two. So you can get
to the residence either way. If you want to peek
on the residence, you can park behind it. If you
want to surveil the residence, you can also park in
(34:17):
front of it.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Cheryl McCollum, You and I investigated the glam yoga teacher
Caitlin Armstrong.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Her SUV was caught going around and around and around.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
The scene of the crime just after the murder victim
had walked in same thing. Here's Cheryl McCollum reportedly and
again Coburger. He is innocent right now in the eyes
of Lady Justice, and he remains innocent until he has
proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of
(34:49):
law by a jury of his peers.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That said, we're not in a court of.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Law, so let's talk about it. The video apparently catches
him circling round and round and round, much like Caitlin
Armstrong did. Mm hmm. And it's not just this one video.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
There's more.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
By the way, This is from very Tasks YouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Go ahead, Cheryl.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
The video is paramount. It not only shows time of
day and location. It shows how he slows down. It
shows how the car does the kay turn. They're going
to cross shake that again, Nancy with cell phone things.
They're going to cross check it again with the traffic ticket.
And I want to come back to that traffic ticket,
(35:35):
the one that he got in August, where it's midnight,
he's just a minute or so away from the murder house,
and he's getting the ticket for not having his seatbelt on.
My theory is because he's getting in and out of
his car stalking these young people. All of this, the video,
the cell phones, the traffic tickets, goes to the plotting
and the planning and the stalking that he did prior
(35:59):
to these murder It's not uncommon, said Bundy Richard.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Marriage, speaking of forensics, professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University.
I'm want to jump off with Cheryl McCollum was just saying,
it's not just this video he wants suppressed. Okay, it's
a whole series of videos. And I'm telling you what
I think they're doing. And you and I discussed this
with Cheryl a while back, and I think you were
in on it too, Chris McDonough. I think they're pulling
(36:25):
a Photus Dulos. Remember Dulo's who murdered his.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Wife as the mother of five of his children, Jennifer Dulo's.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
That Lee put together a hodgepodge, a patchwork quilt that
turned out beautifully.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Of him getting in the car.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
And they've got a red light cam, and then they've
got a surveillance video at a store.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Then they've got a stop like Kim.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
There's even a shot of Dulos going by in the
vehicle with her DNA in the backseat when a public
bus opens the door and you see Dulo's going by,
and they put together a story in video because as
Cheryl was just saying, you've got this video from Linda Lane,
then you've got in the video from the seven to
(37:10):
eleven where you see him go by four o'clock in
the morning, and there's more video they're trying to suppress.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I think that's what they're doing.
Speaker 8 (37:19):
Yeah, I agree. And not only that they're attempting the defense,
that is, they're attempting to try to try to anchor
the narrative in their favor. Obviously that's what they have
to do, but they're even changing language, Nancy about this case.
They want a lot of the stuff excluded. We got
(37:39):
into this I think probably about eight days ago. I'd
urge anybody to go back and watch that episode where
we were talking about the language that's being used. And
one of the things that really stood out to me, Nancy,
was this idea of going back to the knife sheath.
They actually want to exclude the term touch DNA. So
(38:02):
all of us in our field and others, we're supposed
to exclude what is common language for us, so that
it doesn't paint him in a bad light. And all
of this, all of this evidence, whether it's videography or
the physical evidence or the purchases, it paints him in
a very very negative light. And so that's what they're
(38:25):
trying to do with this, to try to throw a
grenade into the room and try to disrupt this. All
they need is one little bit here, one little bit
to dissuade any jurors that might be on the fence.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Colberger also wants weather data from the night of the
murders to be kept from the jury. The state plans
to use records from the National Weather Service for November
twelve and thirteen to show Colberger wouldn't have had much
luck stargazing, as his vague alibi claims. The reports taken
at the Pullman Moscow Regional Airport, located roughly halfway between
(39:00):
the two college towns, show fog, reduced visibility and low
clouds at the time of the murders. Meteorologists say the
fog was not thick enough to impede travel, but the
night sky would only be clearly visible between breaks in
the clouds.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
That's right, Idaho prosecutors planning to undercut Brian Coburger's alibi
based on stargazing. I will never forget when that came out,
you know what, at Sa Karma. Some would argue the
weather was terrible that night Sydney Center. The weather according
(39:37):
to the National Weather Institute, does not support In fact,
it destroys Coburger's alibi. He was out stargazing, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
That's what we believed from the beginning.
Speaker 10 (39:47):
That's what you've said.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Over and over again.
Speaker 14 (39:50):
The easiest way to disprove that he was starguzing was
whether or not you could see the sky that night,
and you couldn't according to this weather report, and that's
shaken from the Moscow Pullman Airport.
Speaker 10 (40:01):
That's pretty much directly in the center between those two towns.
We drove that highway, Highway two seventy. It's directly in
the middle. So wherever he was in Pullman and Moscow
that night, he couldn't see the sky in either location.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Any Finally, in the case reveals prosecutors plan to introduce
National Weather Service records for November twelve and thirteen, twenty
twenty two, as evidence. Apparently the area was shrouded in
low cloud's fog. With these visibility at the time of
their murders. Not much scar stargazing to be had.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Hey, let's take a look at any piece of evidence.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It's Brian Coberger's driver's license that popped up in the
reams of evidence that we have been reviewing. I noticed
that he's an organ donor. Just got morgan, Can you
be an organ donor after the death penalty?
Speaker 8 (40:50):
Here here's my take. I participated in assisting in three
autopsies of individuals that went through capital punishment. And you say, well,
why would you do that, Well, it's still a homicide.
All through those cases I assisted in were in Georgia,
and there's not much that you could do with the remains.
(41:15):
You can donate perhaps skin, maybe.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Eyes, it's going to be if anything.
Speaker 8 (41:22):
Ye, no, no, it's not. And they are they are
asking for the firing squad, and it's possible, you know
that some elements of the body could be could be donated.
However the problem is if there's any thought that you're
going to put him on a vent and harvest a
heart or take kidneys or liver or anything like that,
that's that's not going to happen. You're talking about some
(41:44):
of the peripheral elements that they could go in after,
and that's certainly possible, but nothing as far as a
vital organ would go.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A bombshell in the Brian Coburger defense. Did Brian Coburger
actually buy a Dix Sporting Good black balaklava?
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Why do I care?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Because it's the exact same mask drawn by the survivor
witness who lived through the murders that night. This as
Coburger fights tooth and nail to suppress a twelve page paper.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Why he wrote the paper in school?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
And it describes multiple murders, including the murder of a
white female with what else a knife, even including details
that she, the white female victim, would dig her fingernails
into her killer's skin and likely reveal DNA too close
(01:05):
for comfort. Coburger, I, Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Location of emergency, of the emergency.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
One that nine to one one call brings us all
back to the reality of what happened to four beautiful
University Idaho students slaughtered, as some say, butchered in their
own beds. And now the man charged with all four
(01:48):
murders is fighting tooth and claw to keep one tiny
Dick's Sporting Good purchase away from a jury. Why I
think I know why listen.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
No one is answering. I'm really confused right now.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, dude, what the Xanna was wearing all black? I'm
freaking out right now.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
No, it's like a ski mask.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Almost shut the up. Actually, like he had.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Something over his forehead and mouth. Bethany, I'm not kidding.
I'm so freaked out, So Amne. My phone is going
to die.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Come to my room. Run down here.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I'm screwed though, Yeah, I know, but it's better than
being alone.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
What you just heard is the contents of text messages
that were exchanged between the two survivors that were in
the scene of the murder, that were there that night
their four roommates were murdered. That's between Dylan Mortenson and
Bethany Funk. Now, Dylan Mortenson is describing he had something
(02:52):
over his forehead and mouth. I'm not kidding. I'm so
freaked out, She goes on.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Later, how can I say this?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Okay, you've seen on TV or crime shows, a movie
maybe where the witnesses is drawing, helped to draw a composite,
and they go, oh, no, the nose is too long,
the ears are too big, the eyebrowser this, the mouth
is different. She draws with her own hands the balaklava
(03:30):
that the intruder was wearing that night. I guess they
are fighting to keep that sketch and that purchase out.
Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now, Coberger trying to suppress a
slew of evidentiary items.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
A recent CORD filing shows that defense attorneys want Venmo,
PayPal and bank records for the accused quadruple killer blocked
from CORD. While the exact content of these records are
not discussed, the filing mentions a purchase from under Armour
on June twenty four to twenty twenty two, five months
before the murders, and a purchase from Dick's Sporting Goods
(04:13):
in the same month. The records likely also show Coburger's
purchase of the Kbar knife suspected to be the weapon
used in the murders.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
We were trying to determine what is it about these
purchases that they want so desperately to suppress.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh, did I mention a replacement knife?
Speaker 6 (04:34):
While a court filing last week confirmed that Coburger purchased
a k Bar knife and sharpener eight months prior to
the murders. A new filing alleges that Colberger's Amazon click
history also proves he was searching for a replacement in
the weeks after the murders. Defense attorneys may be planning
to counter the evidence with arguments that Amazon's algorithm simply
(04:55):
suggested an item based on his previous purchase history.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Times you just have so much evidence you don't know
which way to go. Straight out to Chris McDonough joining me.
You know him well, I found him on the interview Room.
He's the star of that on YouTube. But more important,
he's the director of the Cold Case Foundation and he
has worked over three hundred homicides. You first wave the
(05:23):
red flag about Amazon purchases. I guess you've heard about
the balaklava. I'm going to circle back to that. But
you went through an intense discussion and analysis of purchases
on Amazon, and now we know why Chris McDonough the
replacement knife. That's why they wanted that suppressed so desperately.
(05:48):
He leaves a crime scene. According to police, he's driving
that long, circuitous route that you and I have both
driven in the middle of the night, no street lines.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I nearly ran off the road three times.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Then he goes, well, well what what where is the
knife sheet?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So what does he do? It's the clicks.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You said it first, Chris mcdona. He doesn't want the
jury to know he was looking for a replacement knife.
He had already bought a knife a sheet and now
we know a knife sharpener.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's why they don't want us to know about the clicks.
Speaker 7 (06:26):
Chris, absolutely, Nancy. And what's interesting about this is for
some reason, they were on top of that almost within
two weeks after the homicides, and they you know, they
served a search warrant in November twenty in November twenty sixth,
(06:49):
and the search warrant returned December eighth of twenty twenty two.
And so the defense here is been working full time,
you know, to try to suppress those clicks, because that
is just damning evidence. And you're right, he then went
back to try to order a second looks like, you know,
(07:10):
knife and or sheath as kind of the old bait
and switch. If the authorities were onto it once he
discovered he actually lost if he's the guy, of course,
if he lost that you know sheath at the crime scene.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Right hey, you know, Chris, McDonald.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
When I was watching you on your show the interview Room,
you and your guests were going on and on about
the analytical data of Amazon. I'm like, where is this going?
I forced myself to listen to it. Of course I
was interested in it because I love any type of evidence.
If I don't even understand it at the moment, I
sense that it's important. And I could tell by what
(07:51):
you were saying those cliques that data was going to
be very important because it didn't necessarily result in a purchase.
But he's looking to re place the sheath that he
left behind. Okay, hold on. Joe Scott Morgan's joining me,
Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
Feet on Amazon, star of Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.
(08:14):
But for my purposes, he's a death investigator that has
investigated over one thousand death scenes. Joe Scott, you have
been taking a very close look at that Kbart knife,
and I'm wondering in your analysis, could you buy the
sheath separately or does it come with the knife?
Speaker 8 (08:34):
It comes with the knife. Actually, my beautiful bride, God
bless her, actually bought this knife for me and surprised
me with it, and it's not normally the type of
gifts that you get from someone who cares about you.
But she knew that we had been covering this case
and she wanted me to have this just so that
(08:55):
I could have it and feel the weight of it.
This sort of thing, and it comes with the sheath nancy,
So if you were to purchase a sheath separate, it
would have to come from the manufacturer. You would have
to order it specifically, or go out to some vendor
out there somewhere that could probably furnish you with maybe
(09:15):
a knockoff. But it's certainly not the original kbar knife.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I asked my husband for a flamethrower for Christmas and
he didn't give me one. I'm going to use this
as an example of the perfect gift.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Let me think this through. Let me think this through.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Cheryl McCollum is joining me, a Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, founder,
forensic expert and star of Zone seven podcast.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Cheryl.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I can't wait to see what those cliques are. I
haven't even gotten to the balaclava yet. Okay, I'm getting there,
but the clicks, the clicks, I'm like it's a Rubric's cuban.
I'm a Ruber's cuban. I'm trying to make it fit
right now. Do you think, Cheryl, that he was clicking
through trying to find a replacement sheath or was he
(10:02):
trying to find out if he could buy it separately
from the knife. Was he going to buy a whole
new knife and a sheaf to go?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Look here it is, there's not any blood on it.
What do you think, Cheryl.
Speaker 9 (10:12):
That's exactly what he was attempting to do. In my opinion,
he needed a replacement because the murder weapon. He had
to get rid of it because it was saturated with blood.
He knew he had lost or left the sheep behind.
He had to have a replacement, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hours, A.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Brian coburger purchased at Dick's Sporting Goods is offering bombshell
evidence in this case.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
You know Greg Morris joining me.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
He is a high profile lawyer that's tried more cases,
probably than he can count. Greg Morris partner at Being Morse,
author of the Untested on Amazon. Greg, I know how
you and your friends in the defense bar.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Love to discredit an eyewitness.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
In fact, it's so commonly done it's laid out in
black and white in the criminal Code as if it's law.
The ways to attack an eyewitness? Or do you wear glasses?
Were you wearing them that night? How far away were
you from the scene, what was the lighting? Were you distracted?
Were you inebriated? Were you on prescription drugs or anything else?
(11:38):
It's like one, two, three, four it it's by rote.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
But what about this? What about this?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
With no urging, no urging, no tutorial. You have the survivor.
It's Dylan Mortenson and she's texting that not eight that night,
she has.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Just seen the intruder.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
She cracks her door and looks out and she sees him,
and I guess she shut it and moved back. She
is the witness that describes the intruder dressed in dark clothing,
tall white male with bushy eyebrows that night. She says, basically,
at the time of the murders, he had something over
(12:25):
his forehead and mouth I'm not kidding, I'm so freaked out.
Then she draws, let's take a look at her drawing.
I sent you a picture of it, Greg because I
knew it would send chills down your spine. She draws
a bottle clava and guests, who buys a botta clava?
(12:48):
Do you have a bottle clava?
Speaker 10 (12:49):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I'm just curious. I don't, do you. I have three
of them, don't you? So I have three of them?
Speaker 11 (12:55):
Yes, very common thing to buy, especially in Idaho for
the winter where the there is cold.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
The way to.
Speaker 11 (13:01):
Attack this is the commonality of it. I saw the
drawing she made, the person made. It's a common thing.
Speaker 10 (13:11):
It's nothing unique about it.
Speaker 11 (13:13):
And the way to challenge this, to try to keep
it out, which is very difficult, is that you're going
to show this is a common purchase by people. There's
no linking it to the case. There's no linking this
specific one coburger bought to this case. So it's a
generic mask that probably hundreds of thousands of people have
purchased from Dix over the years, maybe millions. So that's
(13:36):
how you challenge it. Very common. I've dealt with this
with guns. When a thirty eight is used to kill
someone and there's no ballistics, and they find a thirty
eight at the suspect house, you challenge it on its
commonality that it's prejudicial to introduce it and link it
to the defendant.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And and you mad more, well done, very well done.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Let me throw this at you.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
What about the purchase of a k bar knife and
a shape and a ball of clava?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Hit me?
Speaker 11 (14:03):
Well, Nancy, I've been doing this for twenty five years
and my job has gotten much harder. This is a
criminology major, so I would flip the mode of which
is pretty clear for the prosecution. He was doing the
Leopolden mog type thing, that he knew about it and
decided to buy this knife afterwards for his studies or something.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Wait what rewind rewind sadly, I'm going to hold you
to the facts. Sidney Summer joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Sydney.
He's half right and half wrong. He's right about a
balla clava. Let's just say, in Idaho, maybe many people
have them to ski. But then let's throw in the
(14:46):
clicking for a replacement knife and sheath.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
But he said that was after the murders.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But isn't it true, Sidney Summer, that Coburger purchased a
k bar knife exactly like the one that was used
in the murders based on the sheath that was left.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Behind far prior to the murders.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
In fact, I recall he bought the knife and the
sheath back in March of twenty twenty two, I mean
eight months before the murders.
Speaker 10 (15:16):
Yes, Nancy, that's quite a long time to have that
knife in your possession before doing this, and the balaklava
was purchased even further back.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
The timing, Sydney.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
The timing is so important because, based on my research,
he made the Dick's purchase of the Balla clava eleven
months before, on jan ten, twenty two. He makes the
knife sheath purchase eight months before March twenty twenty two.
(15:50):
We also have, I don't know if it's going to
come into evidence or not, the purchase of one of
those dicky outfits which there you go, which you could
very easily.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Just zip down and get out of it and then
throw it away.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Then we've got the clicking and attempt to purchase of
a replacement knife in sheath after the murders. Okay, do
I have those dates correct? Because Morse is right you
can fight back on the Bolla clava, Yeah, I get it,
But can you fight back on the Bolla clava that
the witness describes identical to that purchase, the knife, the sheath,
(16:32):
the Dickey's uniform, They replacement knife, the replacement sheath.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
I mean it's adding up Sydney.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Absolutely, Nancy. It's very overwhelming, and the defense is fighting
tooth and nail to keep all of this out. Their
latest arguments. Just last night got the Amazon account is
shared by Coberger's family members.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Tell me exactly what's going on.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
One of the roommates's pass off and she's strong class.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Oh and they tell some men in their house.
Speaker 10 (17:05):
Ok.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, did you see the video of two of the
victims at the grub truck. It was late in the night,
the morning going into the morning hours that they were
murdered in their own beds. For some reason, Brian Coburger's
defense team is trying to suppress this and a lot
of other video which we're going to get to.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I believe much.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Of that video is going to show his vehicle en
route to the murder scene. But can I just comment
for our guests, shopping lists are murder. That's the general
consensus when it comes to Brian Coberger. We've been talking
about the Amazon clicks. We've been talking about the exporting good.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It goes on and on.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
But when you don't know a horse, look at his
track record. I believe we're going to find many other
items in Coburgers records he's trying to suppress.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Isn't this right?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Sydney summer, PayPal purchases, Venmo purchases, Amazon purchases and searches
and much more. There's going to be more that we
find that is damning in Brian Coberger's shopping list.
Speaker 10 (18:24):
I think that's absolutely true, Nancy. They still have not
unsealed any information, any reasoning as to why all of
Coburger's financial records are relevant to the case and what
evidence they will produce. The defense has made a small
comment that it's supposed to show his spending habits, but
other than that, we don't know why all of these
(18:46):
bank records have been pulled.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I guarantee you we're going to find cleaning supplies. Joining me,
Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case
Research Institute. I'm sure you recall our investigation into Brian
Walsh after the murder and I believe dismemberment of his
wife Anna, her body has never been found.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Listen to what he.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Bought at Low's eryl five five gallon buckets, a handsaw,
forty eight cherry cloth towels, a full iti wreck, full
coverage suit, shoe guards, mop, a cutting tool called snips,
two hundred disposable rags, trash bags, Murphy oil soap.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Then he goes to another store. Yeah, let's sprinkle it around.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh, there he is looking at that. That was the
purchase at Low's. And there he is at CBS. He
buys thirteen different types of hydrogen peroxide. Then he goes
to stopping shop, three sixty four ounce jugs of ammonia.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
He goes to home.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Goods, three area rugs and scented candles. I believe one
of his searches was how long till the body starts
to smell?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
At home depot? Just to round it out, three.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Five gallon bucket kits with leak proof lids, a hatchet,
plastic sheeting, twenty four pounds of baking soda, and another
Tyrek suit. Wow, talk about some clean up, Cheryl McCollum.
That was Brian walshon I'm very curious why with all
of his analysis, you know, there's just nothing like the
(20:19):
real thing, right, Cheryl, You can study about it all
the way through your PhD, but when it comes right
down to committing mass murder details, the devil is in
the details, Cheryl McCollum.
Speaker 9 (20:30):
Always, and Nancy, this is going to go straight into
the prosecution's timeline. You know, you may look at Israel
Key's list and think, oh, this guy's going camping, till
you know how to read it. When you look at
the purchases and these searches, those are really going to
be critical. And you've got a knife with the sheet
and the mask. It's not just you know, something briskian.
(20:54):
And when you're looking at Coburger specifically and the eye
witness that he left alive in her drawing, this you know,
overall shopping list is a roadmap to his plotting and
planning of this murder, and these things are going to
be weaved into this timeline, just like his cell phone
pings and his traffic ticket.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You know, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, I believe that there
are certain personalities and this does not rise to an
insanity defense. They can't help, but very compulsively, some would
say anal compulsively make plans. I'm sure you recall it's
in your jurisdiction. That's why I save this for you.
Robert Blake, who absolutely orchestrated the murder of his wife,
(21:38):
Bonnie Lee Bakley. Listen to his shopping list. Now, I
got this from the prosecutor's complaint against him. He had
his hitch person called Well purchase a grizzly shopping list.
It included two shovels, a small sledge, a crowbar, a
(21:59):
twenty five cow gun, old rugs, duct tape, draino pool, acid,
and lie and he wrote it down in a list. Bethany,
I wonder you've no coburger had to make a list.
Warning he's innocent until proving guilty. But can they not
help themselves?
Speaker 12 (22:19):
Nancy, you talked about the meticulous planning, and as I've
said so many times before on your show, sociopaths, and
in particular psychopaths, they're the same as socia paths, but
you have the addition of cruelty. In terms of their personality,
they are very empty and internally they don't get excited
by the things you and I do, and because of that,
(22:40):
they use cruelty to get sexual excitement.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Nancy, listen that Robert Blake.
Speaker 12 (22:45):
It would have been so much cheaper just to get
a divorce, right, I mean, you know, just to send
her on her mary Way. But no, he wanted to
He wanted her off this earth. He didn't want her
anywhere around. That's a little bit different from Brian Coburger,
who I believe actually this was very thrilling for him.
So I think what we're going to find on his
computer is SNM porn, rape videos, maybe child pornography. I'm
(23:11):
going to be very interested in what motivates him sexually,
what we see on his computer in his digital life,
and that how that also links him to the crime.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
We also know about Natalie Keepers and David Eisenhower plotting
the murder of a little twelve or thirteen year old
girl in Nicole Level and they go to I think
a barbecue joint and make a list of all the
cleaning supplies and items they're going to need to kill
the little girl and to clean up her body was
(23:43):
found naked on the side of the road. It had
been wiped down. There's Nicole wiped down with wet wipes.
So you know, Sidney Sumner, the shopping list is damning.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Coburn.
Speaker 10 (24:01):
Absolutely, there's just no way around this, Nancy. It's information
that's been speculated or known for a long time, and
it's really interesting to see it coming together in the
States case, because.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
How do you explain that.
Speaker 10 (24:15):
I mean, I was talking about this with my fiance
last night. He has a balaklava for hunting when it's dark.
You want to keep the rest of your face as
dark as possible when you're sitting in a blind hunting
a deer. What other reasonable explanation do you have for
a babba clava? We said skiing earlier, Idaho does get cold.
(24:36):
But I asked him, would you ever wear this in public?
If you weren't doing something that required it, if you
weren't skiing, if you weren't hunting, would you ever wear
this out? And his flat answer is no. Why would
I ever have a reason to own this, to use
this on a regular basis, not for that purpose, She's not.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
In addition to damning shopping lists indicated by clicks on Amazon,
Dick Sporting good.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
At under Armour.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
We don't know why the Defense wants to suppress purchases
at under Armour yet, but we'll find out. In addition
to that, the defense is fighting tooth and claw to
suppress a twelve page assignment paper that Coburger wrote.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
In twenty twenty and more listen.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
In arguments against its inclusion, the defense reveals that prosecutors
plan to enter into evidence records from Colberger's graduate studies
in psychology at the Sales University. The filing says they
have received discovery including Colberger's school calendar, written coursework, testing, emails,
and syllabi from his time as a master's student, and
(26:00):
the attorneys failed to see its relevance. As part of
his thesis, Colberger worked with professors to develop a survey
exploring how emotions influence a criminal's decision making during the
commission of a violent crime.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
It's not just the creepy survey he sent out to
violent felons, asking them about how they felt at the
time of the crime, what went through their mind, how
did they pick their target, how did they get out,
how did they plan the whole thing?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Very very detailed questioning.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
But now a twelve page assignment paper has emerged and
the defense is fighting to keep it suppressed away from
the jury City summer.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
What is it as.
Speaker 10 (26:43):
So this comes as a filing from the state rebutting
the defense's recent Hey, you've given us all of this discovery.
It's so much information. What are you trying to.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Do with this?
Speaker 10 (26:55):
It has to be kept out because I can't figure
out what you were going to use in court. So
the state came back and said, here is exactly what
we plan to use in court and filed this twelve
page assignment from Coburger that he completed as a master's
student at the Sales University. In this assignment, it's unclear
(27:16):
exactly what the instructions are if this was a scenario
that the professor came up with. But Coburger's job was
to go through every single step to secure and process
that crime scene for evidence. So it's a list and
list and lists of bullet points of what needs to
be done in what order, what tools you need, what
(27:38):
to look for. So it's very detailed, and it's coincidentally
a stabbing.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Prosecutors want to use a school paper that allegedly details
a crime SAYN, very similar to the crime SAYN in
the Idaho Sligh. Now listen to this, Cheryl McCollum. He
states in the paper as if he were processing the scene,
(28:05):
I should make sure to swab under her, the white
female murder victim, her fingernails to see if DNA of
the offender is there. She likely dug into his skin,
he wrote, in excruciating details. He describes how first responders
(28:27):
should handle the crime scene, using as an example, what
else a deceased white female murder weapon a knife?
Speaker 10 (28:39):
Yep.
Speaker 9 (28:40):
This is absolutely going to be something that the prosecution
is going to highlight because it shows he had knowledge,
He had knowledgeab where DNA could be found and located
on a murder victim. And then they're going to show
the purchase of the clothing and the mask and gloves
and other items to prevent that very thing from happening.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
What about it?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Straight back to you, Greg Morse, how do you defeat
bringing this in? Its basically a blueprint of the murders?
Speaker 11 (29:12):
So this is a common issue today.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It deals with rap lyrics.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
The most recent case is Alana's Vus, where rap lyrics
are allowed to come in and I think the paper
the defense has a really hard time. Their main argument
would be that there's no crime that occurred when the
paper was written, that it was after the crime so
in the rap lyric cases, the lyrics talk about a
(29:35):
crime that already occurred and specifically, and that's how the
prosecutors are getting this in. So I would defend this
on it's irrelevant. It happened before the crime, years before.
It was for a class that he was author, you know,
asked to write this paper. It doesn't provide any direct
evidence to the crimes, but it's a very hard it's
(29:57):
going to be very hard for the defense to challenge relevance.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Relevance.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
He describes a white female victim at a murder scene
digging her nails into her killer, and that an EMT
or a scene processor like Cheryl McCollum should get fingernail
clippings from the victim for potential DNA.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That's why it's relevant. Listen.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Brian Coberger's defense team has revealed a major curveball for
his upcoming trial. A newly unsealed court filing discloses that
investigators found three unknown profiles from DNA underneath victim Medicine
Mogen's fingernails. Clippings from Mogan's left hand unearthed the samples,
but testing has not determined who they belonged to. Comparisons
(30:44):
of the profiles to Coburger's DNA were inconclusive. The accused
quadruple killer has not been confirmed or excluded as a source.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 13 (31:05):
The defense also wants almost all video evidence tossed, claiming
there's no way they can review it in time for trial.
At the crux of their argument is possibly a key
piece of evidence, footage from a nearby apartment complex on
Linda Lane just after four am November thirteen, twenty twenty two.
The footage shows a white sedan outside eleven twenty two
King Road. However, in its raw form, that footage alone
(31:26):
is twelve hours long, and defense attorneys say it will
be impossible for them to pinpoint the relevant clips.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Okay, that's total bs.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
In many cases, especially when you have something like a wiretap.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Or a stakeout, that video or audio can go on
for hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That's why you're getting paid to listen to it and
figure out what, if anything, is relevant. Hello, Ann Taylor,
that's your job. Quit whining. But let's talk about the
video itself, specifically video from a nearby apartment at Linda Lane.
Straight out to Chris mcdunna joining me, veteran homicide investigator,
(32:07):
star of the Interview Room on YouTube. Chris, you and
I have trumped through that neighborhood now, I don't even
know how many hours, and I noticed I didn't understand
the relevance of it, how close all of the buildings
are to each other. As I stood in front of
the King Road crime scene, I can look across and
tell you the type of dishwashing liquid sitting in the
(32:31):
kitchen window of the apartment across the street. It was
the green Paul Paul Mallin by the way, and I.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Could see it.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So I guarantee you this video from Linda Lane and
apartment nearby, it's got to be something damning. Hey, let's
see those steal shots from the video that we're talking about.
Could you describe this area, Chris mcdonna absolutely.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
Nancyen and you have stood there and it is a
lot closer than what it appears from like a Google
map or something like that. That area is you know,
it's off housing campus or excuse me, it's off campus
housing for students. It's surrounded by a couple of apartments.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Look at your monitor. We're showing it right now and
this is from the Veritas Quita's YouTube channel. Check it out.
I guarantee you this is going to be blown up
like nobody's business so the jury can see.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
This is one of a mini okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Dear, okay.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
So if you're driving straight up past eleven twenty two,
you get to this apartment complex at the end of
like a mini cul de sac, and then that's where
this car is turning, and if you can complete that
turn all the way around, it will take you behind
the residents at eleven twenty two where you could actually park.
(33:56):
And I think in this particular shot here he's actually
so only to the end. It appears the car is
backing up and then coming straight back down and parking
in front of eleven twenty two. So you can get
to the residence either way. If you want to peek
on the residence, you can park behind it. If you
want to surveil the residence, you can also park in
(34:17):
front of it.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Cheryl McCollum, You and I investigated the glam yoga teacher
Caitlin Armstrong.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Her SUV was caught going around and around and around.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
The scene of the crime just after the murder victim
had walked in same thing. Here's Cheryl McCollum reportedly and
again Coburger. He is innocent right now in the eyes
of Lady Justice, and he remains innocent until he has
proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of
(34:49):
law by a jury of his peers.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
That said, we're not in a court of.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Law, so let's talk about it. The video apparently catches
him circling round and round and round, much like Caitlin
Armstrong did. Mm hmm. And it's not just this one video.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
There's more.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
By the way, This is from very Tasks YouTube channel.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Go ahead, Cheryl.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
The video is paramount. It not only shows time of
day and location. It shows how he slows down. It
shows how the car does the kay turn. They're going
to cross shake that again, Nancy with cell phone things.
They're going to cross check it again with the traffic ticket.
And I want to come back to that traffic ticket,
(35:35):
the one that he got in August, where it's midnight,
he's just a minute or so away from the murder house,
and he's getting the ticket for not having his seatbelt on.
My theory is because he's getting in and out of
his car stalking these young people. All of this, the video,
the cell phones, the traffic tickets, goes to the plotting
and the planning and the stalking that he did prior
(35:59):
to these murder It's not uncommon, said Bundy Richard.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Marriage, speaking of forensics, professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University.
I'm want to jump off with Cheryl McCollum was just saying,
it's not just this video he wants suppressed. Okay, it's
a whole series of videos. And I'm telling you what
I think they're doing. And you and I discussed this
with Cheryl a while back, and I think you were
in on it too, Chris McDonough. I think they're pulling
(36:25):
a Photus Dulos. Remember Dulo's who murdered his.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Wife as the mother of five of his children, Jennifer Dulo's.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
That Lee put together a hodgepodge, a patchwork quilt that
turned out beautifully.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Of him getting in the car.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
And they've got a red light cam, and then they've
got a surveillance video at a store.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Then they've got a stop like Kim.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
There's even a shot of Dulos going by in the
vehicle with her DNA in the backseat when a public
bus opens the door and you see Dulo's going by,
and they put together a story in video because as
Cheryl was just saying, you've got this video from Linda Lane,
then you've got in the video from the seven to
(37:10):
eleven where you see him go by four o'clock in
the morning, and there's more video they're trying to suppress.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I think that's what they're doing.
Speaker 8 (37:19):
Yeah, I agree. And not only that they're attempting the defense,
that is, they're attempting to try to try to anchor
the narrative in their favor. Obviously that's what they have
to do, but they're even changing language, Nancy about this case.
They want a lot of the stuff excluded. We got
(37:39):
into this I think probably about eight days ago. I'd
urge anybody to go back and watch that episode where
we were talking about the language that's being used. And
one of the things that really stood out to me, Nancy,
was this idea of going back to the knife sheath.
They actually want to exclude the term touch DNA. So
(38:02):
all of us in our field and others, we're supposed
to exclude what is common language for us, so that
it doesn't paint him in a bad light. And all
of this, all of this evidence, whether it's videography or
the physical evidence or the purchases, it paints him in
a very very negative light. And so that's what they're
(38:25):
trying to do with this, to try to throw a
grenade into the room and try to disrupt this. All
they need is one little bit here, one little bit
to dissuade any jurors that might be on the fence.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Colberger also wants weather data from the night of the
murders to be kept from the jury. The state plans
to use records from the National Weather Service for November
twelve and thirteen to show Colberger wouldn't have had much
luck stargazing, as his vague alibi claims. The reports taken
at the Pullman Moscow Regional Airport, located roughly halfway between
(39:00):
the two college towns, show fog, reduced visibility and low
clouds at the time of the murders. Meteorologists say the
fog was not thick enough to impede travel, but the
night sky would only be clearly visible between breaks in
the clouds.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
That's right, Idaho prosecutors planning to undercut Brian Coburger's alibi
based on stargazing. I will never forget when that came out,
you know what, at Sa Karma. Some would argue the
weather was terrible that night Sydney Center. The weather according
(39:37):
to the National Weather Institute, does not support In fact,
it destroys Coburger's alibi. He was out stargazing, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
That's what we believed from the beginning.
Speaker 10 (39:47):
That's what you've said.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Over and over again.
Speaker 14 (39:50):
The easiest way to disprove that he was starguzing was
whether or not you could see the sky that night,
and you couldn't according to this weather report, and that's
shaken from the Moscow Pullman Airport.
Speaker 10 (40:01):
That's pretty much directly in the center between those two towns.
We drove that highway, Highway two seventy. It's directly in
the middle. So wherever he was in Pullman and Moscow
that night, he couldn't see the sky in either location.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Any Finally, in the case reveals prosecutors plan to introduce
National Weather Service records for November twelve and thirteen, twenty
twenty two, as evidence. Apparently the area was shrouded in
low cloud's fog. With these visibility at the time of
their murders. Not much scar stargazing to be had.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Hey, let's take a look at any piece of evidence.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It's Brian Coberger's driver's license that popped up in the
reams of evidence that we have been reviewing. I noticed
that he's an organ donor. Just got morgan, Can you
be an organ donor after the death penalty?
Speaker 8 (40:50):
Here here's my take. I participated in assisting in three
autopsies of individuals that went through capital punishment. And you say, well,
why would you do that, Well, it's still a homicide.
All through those cases I assisted in were in Georgia,
and there's not much that you could do with the remains.
(41:15):
You can donate perhaps skin, maybe.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Eyes, it's going to be if anything.
Speaker 8 (41:22):
Ye, no, no, it's not. And they are they are
asking for the firing squad, and it's possible, you know
that some elements of the body could be could be donated.
However the problem is if there's any thought that you're
going to put him on a vent and harvest a
heart or take kidneys or liver or anything like that,
that's that's not going to happen. You're talking about some
(41:44):
of the peripheral elements that they could go in after,
and that's certainly possible, but nothing as far as a
vital organ would go.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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