June 27, 2024 • 44 mins
The death of a boy, who dies in his first night at Trails Carolina, has been ruled a homicide.
The autopsy report of the 12-year-old says the cause of death is asphyxia due to smothering. Trails Carolina has the troubled youths sleeping in bivies that are placed on top of a thick plastic sheet that is folded up the sides in the form of a canoe.
The mesh in the bivy being torn and replaced with the weather-resistant door secured with an alarm that would alert if someone tries getting out of the bivy. Counselors check on the boy during the night, but can't actually see him because of the door that is being used. The autopsy notes that instructions for the bivy sack readily available online warn against zipping the solid outer layer completely shut.
When counselors try to wake the boy in the morning, they find he is cold and stiff. His body is turned 180 degrees from the entrance and his feet are near the opening, which the autopsy report says would have allowed the waterproof material to fall onto his face and head.
The report also says the boy was placed in this compromised sleeping area by others and did not have the ability to remove himself from the situation with the alarm securing the opening. Standard protocol was deviated from due to using a damaged bivy and securing the outer weather resistant door instead of the inner mesh panel."
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Leanne Roberts - Attended Trails Carolina camp at age 12
- Meg Appelgate - Co-founder and CEO of Unsilenced, Victim of troubled teen industry and advocate for survivors, Author: "Becoming UNSILENCED: Surviving and Fighting the Troubled Teen Industry';" TikTok and IG: @megappelgate/TikTok and IG: Unsilenced_now
- Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dr. Eric Eason – Board-certified Forensic Pathologist, Consultant; Instagram: @eric_a_eason, Facebook: Eric August Eason, LinkedIn: Eric Eason, MD
- Nick Ochsner – Executive Producer & Chief Investigative Reporter, WBTV
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A little boy just twelve
years old. What is that fifth grade is dead after
just twenty four hours at summer camp, found dead without
his pants in the last hours. Ruled a homicide. Good evening,
(00:25):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
A twelve year old boy dies just twenty four hours
after arriving at a wilderness therapy camp. His death now
ruled a homicide.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Good Lord in heaven, you send your child away to
a wellness camp for his own good on beautiful trails
and forested areas in Carolina, and in less than twenty
four hours at camp.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
He's dead.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Last hours, this little boy's death has been ruled a homicide.
With me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now, including an investigative reporter, a
renowned medical examiner, therapist, and importantly the co founder CEO
of unsilenced, a victim of the troubled teen industry, and
(01:25):
a beautiful young woman who attended the camp at just
age twelve like this little boy, as I like to
do with juries when I can. Let's go back to
when this happened and hear the nine to one one
call based as.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
A side unders finding Cambro Trus, Carolina.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
So a girl now alas Thursday ones that are out
of cities. Goty's responding, I've brought podcast the college pos
for us. I'm not sure I'm thinking contact with them again.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
When we looked up their codes eight and eleven, we
learned that means carbon monoxide inhalation or choking. So that
tells NIL one immediately that there's some type of respiratory
sell your let's listen to more.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
Yeah, I didn't go the SURGU twelve one two.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Okay, maybe four CPR is being given at this time.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
I had to add somebody up the flag.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Y'all had just behind the five hundred buildings. I can
lose a contact with the subject core service.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
I'm here. I don't see work.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I mean, my stars, you've got a little boy dying
or dead on your watch.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's just been ruled homicide.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
This camp is full of counselors and kids, and they
don't have anybody out there to direct the ambulance to
the right location in a giant wilderness camp. I mean
before I go to Nick Auxner, investigative producer and chief
investigative reporter WBTV to doctor Eric Eeson, renowned forensic pathologist
(03:33):
doctor Ethan. For lack of a better term, that's BS.
I mean, look, my dad had one cardiac event. As
doctors like to say, after the next one of us,
my mom will be performing, be performing CPR, another one
of us will be out in the driveway waving trying
(03:55):
to flag down the ambulance. I mean, every second counts.
And guess what, they saved his life more than once.
So here you got the ambulances driving around the camp
just for starters, trying to find the little boy.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I mean, have you ever heard anything like it? A
camp full of.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Counselors, they're supposed to be trained in CPR and doing
the right thing.
Speaker 7 (04:19):
I've never heard anything like that happened for myself.
Speaker 8 (04:22):
It wasn't a remote area, so maybe that had something
to do with it, But yeah, sounds like it was
a pretty disorganized.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay, and that's just exactly what you don't need. Hey,
you know, remote area parents paying thousands of dollars to
send their children.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
This isn't even a teen. He's twelve years.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Old from New York, thousands of miles away in the
middle of the wilderness and nobody can even get the
ambulance to the boy to try to save his life.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Okay, that's just a tip of the iceberg. Listen.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
They said they had to.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Go to the hall to call, said when they woke
up everything we're doing the bed and rest.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Hey, I think I god want when you get to
my truck, come all the way out for here and
get to my truck. Come by that cabin and let's
see you. This is I got you that I'm showing you.
All things come almost so.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
The counselors get told there's something wrong, and now they
say they had to go to the office to make
the call.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So how many more minutes did they lose?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
But listen, their incompetence is really just a tip of
the iceberg.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
For those of you just joining us.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Parents send a twelve year old boy to a wilderness camp,
a wellness camp, as they call it, it's anything but well.
And let me tell you something, this little boy is
not the first time that someone has ended up dead
at Carolina Trails. And then we find out the counselors
(06:04):
of staff won't cooperate with the investigation.
Speaker 9 (06:09):
Listen, the Transylvania County Sheriff's Office said when they arrived
at Trails, Carolina for an unresponsive participant, medicks found evidence
that CPR had been performed, but the child appeared deceased
for some time. But now, in an odd twist of trust,
the Wilderness Therapy Camp in North Carolina is refusing to
(06:30):
allow investigators to talk to staff or juveniles present when
the twelve year old died. According to a search warrant,
the boy suffered a panic attack the night he arrived
at the camp, and the next morning he was found cold, stiff,
and frothing at the mouth, not being able to talk
to staff or campers. It is unclear what caused the
(06:51):
boy to present with frothing from the mouth. According to
an affidavit from the detective that got the search warrant,
froth about the mouth could end kate he ingested some
sort of poison.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
First of all, I gave up cursing where the twins
were born. But every way, every term I can think
of to describe this would break.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
That vow for those of you just joining us.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
A shock coroner's report reveals that a twelve year old
little boy is dead at Trails Carolina Wellness Camp due
to homicide. First of all, I want to go to
Nick Oxnar, joining US executive producer, chief investigative reporter at WBTV,
(07:37):
and he has been investigating Trails Carolina since May twenty
twenty one. Okay, Nick Oxnar, thank you for being with us.
It raises a huge red flag when witnesses and employees
will not cooperate with LA law enforcement.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
That's a I think it was a concern for the sheriff,
and he highlighted that lack of cooperation in the public
and statements that he's made that his deputies couldn't get
information about what happened on the scene, and they've continued investigating.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
You have been investigating. This camp is so called therapeutic camp.
Therapeutic forty nine hundred dollars the last time I looked
to enroll up to seven hundred plus dollars a day
for a twelve year old to do what walk around
the trails and have three hots and a cot.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I mean nearly eight hundred.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Dollars a day, five grand enrollment fee. Why did you,
Nick Oxen, begin investigating Trails Carolina.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yeah, we got a phone call from a concerned parent
whose child almost went there and Essentially, that phone call
said I've looked into this place and done my own
homework and maybe you ought to look into it as well.
And actually, Nancy, what we found is that the children
attending Trails Carolina most of the time don't even.
Speaker 10 (09:06):
Get a cot.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
They're actually sleeping in a sleeping bag or a sleeping matt,
either in a cabin or out in the wilderness.
Speaker 10 (09:12):
And that's just emblematic.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I say that, because emblematic of the kind of experience
they're getting at this ord, at this facility.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
How did the whole thing start? Listen.
Speaker 11 (09:22):
The parents of a twelve year old boy think Trails
Carolina might be just the place to help their son.
Trails Carolina claims to be a leader in wilderness therapy,
offering an adventure wilderness program for children who have behavioral
and or emotional difficulties. The parents say their boy is
transported by two men from New York to Trails Carolina
Camp at Lake Talksaway, North Carolina. Their son arrives at
(09:44):
the camp in an agitated state. The twelve year old
is loud and disruptive, but he is assigned to a
cabin with other children, as well as four adults in
less than twenty four hours. The twelve year old is dead.
Sheriff Chuck owenb says an autopsy is being conducted because
the death appears suspicious since the boy died at the
camp less than twenty four hours after he arrived.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
A boy dead just twelve years old, twenty four hours
after getting to camp having panic attacks upset. I wonder
why found dead without his pants on joining me In
addition to Nick Oxner from WTV, Leanne Roberts is joining us.
A beautiful young woman who attended Trails Carolina age twelve,
(10:43):
just like this little boy. Leanne, thank you for being
with us. Tell me about your experience at Trails Carolina.
Speaker 12 (10:52):
Yeah, so, from the very first minute that you're there,
it's pretty traumatizing. The thing that they have you do is,
you know, conduct a strip search, and everything you have
is taken from you. And that kind of set the
tone for the rest of my stay there. I experienced,
you know, and witnessed things that no twelve year old
(11:15):
ever should, no child ever, should, no person ever really should,
all in the name of therapy, which we actually weren't
even really receiving. We saw a therapist once to maybe
two times a week. So I mean, yeah, just just horrible.
There were you know, we weren't getting enough food at
(11:38):
twelve years old. I enrolled at ninety pounds and I
left at eighty, so that's ten pounds over a three
month span. I spent Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's there.
We weren't given enough adequate gear for the weather, the temperature,
so we got to like negative twenty degrees and we
had two three layers max. Of really thin clothing.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Just some some horrific, horrific stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know, I'm trying to take in everything that you
were saying, but you gave me so much information I've
got to dissect it.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
You said that you, as a twelve.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Year old little girl, saw things that no child nor
anyone should ever see, such as what you know.
Speaker 12 (12:24):
On many occasions, I saw my friends' faces being pushed
in the ground when being put on a restrictive hold.
I you know, experienced and watched my friends be so
emotionally manipulated. We had a problem with when I was there,
(12:47):
with understaffing, and they wouldn't have enough staff sometimes to
facilitate facilitate bathroom breaks, and so that meant that instead
of letting us use the restroom, they would rather us
like pr pants. And so in a solution to that,
because we weren't doing laundry, we weren't getting showers, everyone
(13:10):
smell of urine, and they threatened, and for some girls
distributed adult diapers instead of letting us use the restroom.
And that's truthfully only like the tip of the iceberg,
which is deeply saddening. But those are, you know, just
a few things that come to mind.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Leanne went to this camp at just twelve years old.
Praise the Lord, she's alive. The damage and the trauma
and the emotional problems it's caused her, that's a whole
nother can of worms. But she's alive, so she lives
to fight another day. She lives to deal with what
(13:49):
happened at Trails, Carolina.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
This little boy.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Didn't live twelve years old, Pale, frail, upset, having panic.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Attacks, and he dies within twenty four hours of going
to this camp. This is camp season. Parents, wake up,
be alert, Lee and Roberts.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You stated that when you got there you had to
be strip searched, that you were not given bathroom breaks,
that the campers were told to wear adult diapers so
they could urinate and defecate in their pants.
Speaker 12 (14:34):
Why, I mean, they would have all these kind of
like safety reasons. They didn't really have an excuse for
the diapers other than it was our fault for drinking
so much water and not managing it, which is ridiculous,
because if you got to go, you gotta go. But
the strip searching, you know, they say it's to make
(14:57):
sure you don't have anything dangerous on you, but they
take away everything you come in with. And I genuinely
do believe that it's, you know, a way to strip
you of your individuality and maybe any comfort you have
going in. You're dressed all the same as the other children.
You don't have anything that, you know, like I said,
(15:18):
as comforting or makes you feel safe or you know,
you're just kind of stripped down to the bone.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You mentioned the strip search you're describing that, guys, I
doubt all.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Of you parents experience this. If and when you got
to go to camp.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
We got to go to camp at four AH Camp,
and I remember my parents trying to get together the
money to go to four H Camp. It was thirty
seven dollars for each child to go to four ahe
camp and we got to go. But it was a
wonderful fun experience the only time each year that I
(15:57):
would be away from home overnight.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
What you were hearing happened, This happened. There's no doubt
about it.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
A little boy is dead tonight after just twenty four
hours at this camp. It's not just at Trails, Carolina
that this is happening. As a matter of fact, take
a listen to a victim that managed to survive the
(16:29):
Provo Canyon school.
Speaker 13 (16:31):
The first thing that they said to me was you're
going to need to be strip searched, and so they
took me to this room filled with cyber or six
stass in there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I had to remove all my clothes.
Speaker 13 (16:45):
They had to thoroughly.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Examine my body.
Speaker 13 (16:48):
They asked me to sorry to do very strange things
while I was naked. They asked me to bend over,
touch my toes. I had to spread everything apart. I
was told to squat into cough and they had me
(17:10):
do that repeatedly for a few minutes while all the
staff members last and made jokes.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Parents send a twelve year old boy for treatment at
a wilderness therapy camp. He never comes home dying just
twenty four hours later.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Found dead twenty four hours after going to Trails Carolina Camp,
a therapeutic wellness camp for children and teens. Did his
parents have any idea what really went on at that
camp before they sent him. I've heard many, many true
life traumatic stories about how children are basically kidnapped. The
(17:55):
parents know what's happening, but the child doesn't know it's
about to go to a camp, and they are just
taken away and they end up at a camp, a
wellness camp or a boot camp for children and teens.
Joining me, Meg Applegate, co founder, CEO Unsilenced, victim of
(18:16):
trouble Teen Industry, author of Becoming Unsilenced, Surviving and Finding
the trouble teen Industry, and you can find her at
Unsilenced dot org.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Meg, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
A death as if a strip search and malnourishment, beatings, hazings,
adult diapers as if that's not enough, now, Meg, A
death of a twelve year old boy at camp right,
and it's.
Speaker 14 (18:53):
Very, very sad, and unfortunately we're not all that surprised.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We understand that this little boy was not delivered to
the camp by his parents. That two strangers took kem.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
How does that work?
Speaker 15 (19:06):
Yeah, so we call that an escort service, or a
lot of people call that booning. It's basically when you're
woken up, usually in the middle of the night, you're
told that you're coming with them.
Speaker 14 (19:16):
A lot of times you're.
Speaker 15 (19:17):
Asked to you undressed in front of them as to
go to the bathroom in front of them, and then
you're escorted from your home to wherever you're going to
be gone.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Now, what did you say?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
The phrase to describe it is maybe people call it boning,
gooning g as in gregarious in gooning.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Correct, that's correct. Gooning.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Okay, that evokes nothing but a semblance of fear of
terror to get gooned.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I mean, what do you mean gooned?
Speaker 14 (19:49):
I mean, it's pretty much how it feels myself.
Speaker 15 (19:51):
I was gooned as well, and it's so incredibly traumatic
that it sticks with you for the rest of your life.
Speaker 14 (19:58):
It's truly like you're being kidnapped.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
What happened to you? Exactly?
Speaker 14 (20:01):
So I was woking up around two am by these
two strangers.
Speaker 15 (20:05):
They said, you're coming with us, and we can do
this the easy way or the hard way, and they
indicated that the hard way was going to be in handcuffs.
Speaker 14 (20:14):
So I listened, and they basically made me undress in
front of them.
Speaker 15 (20:18):
Go to the bathroom, threw me into the back of
an suv, and we were off to Lax and off
to my first program.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
To Nick Oxtar joining US chief investigative reporter WBTV, he
has been investigating Trails, Carolina says twenty twenty one, and
there's no reason for that, this guy, Nick, Nick Oxtar
doesn't just get up your tail pipe for no reason.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Nick, again, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
How do the children, the teens get to trails, Carolina?
Because I noticed immediately this little boy and we are
withholding his name, the little boy that ends up dead
without his pants on in the middle of the night.
He did not get escorted there by his parents. They
didn't take him to camp and drop him off like
in What is It? The Parent Trap? Remember that Lindsay
(21:06):
Lohan is taken.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
By the butler. I think it is, and by the
dad and it's wonderful. It's not like that. What is gooning?
Are you familiar with that?
Speaker 7 (21:17):
Nick?
Speaker 6 (21:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Just about every former participant in Trails Carolina that I've
spoken with, and I've talked to more than a half
dozen of them. Just about everybody was gooned or transported
to the camp. And I'll tell you the very few
that I've talked to who weren't had a slightly less
traumatic start to their camping experience. But it's exactly as
(21:39):
I've heard it. Luckily I never had to experience this,
but as I understand, it's exactly like what we just
heard of may describe. These strangers come to your house.
You're woken up in the middle of the night and
taken whisked away unexpectedly by these strangers, you know, far away.
Think about this boy came from New York City.
Speaker 10 (21:57):
To the wilderness of North Carolina.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I've been out to the site of the Trails Carolina
camp and let me tell you it's nothing like New
York City.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert
consultant and you can find her at Karenstark dot com.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And that's Karen with a C in case you're looking
for her.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Karen Stark, you need to write the book on panic attacks,
because you've done.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
So many case studies on that.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
But this little boy gets gooned, as Meg Applegate is
describing it, and Karen, I spoke to you about this
when it occurred. Friends of our children got gooned and
we're taken to a camp across the country and the
(22:53):
girl got to take one pair of underwear and one toothbrush.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
She had no idea that was going to happen.
Speaker 12 (23:03):
And just.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I mean, Karen, that right there, this little twelve year
old boy was having panic attacks. I guess he was
at twelve years old. It's just a baby, for Pete's sake.
What is a panic attack? And I'm getting to something probative,
Karen Stark. I ask you all of these psychological questions
(23:28):
because I want to prove something. I want to prove
something that I can take in front of a jury.
This boy, by all accounts, was having panic attacks. Okay,
he should have been watched even more closely that night,
but instead he ends up dead.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So what is a panic attack and what would the
symptoms be? Karen Stark.
Speaker 16 (23:54):
When you have a panic attack, Nancy, you are feeling
like you're having a heart attack. And many of my
patients describe that because your heart is racing. Your breathing
isn't regular. It's very, very frightening, and people don't understand
that it's something that will pass, that your body is
reacting to trauma. And when you think about and you've
(24:17):
made some good points, this little boy, he's being taken off.
All of these children they're taken away. They are not
able to know ahead of time, and the parents believe
this is a good thing. They're told that, so they
don't even know what is happening to them. They're humiliated,
they're frightened. And you take a child like this, who
(24:39):
already has anxiety and panic attacks, and put him in
a situation that is overwhelming where he has absolutely no
idea what's happening. And it's not the way that you're
supposed to be helping somebody. You're supposed to be helping
a child. That's why they're going there. This is a
cant that's supposed to be providing good services, and instead
(25:02):
they scare them.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
And that is the worst tactic you could use. Karen Stark.
On many occasions, these counselors did nothing, Nancy.
Speaker 16 (25:11):
They can't do anything. They don't have the right training.
They really don't understand what they're doing. And that's one
of the problems. These camps are unregulated. They can hire anyone,
and they are not equipped to deal with real mental
health issues or anything that is out of the ordinary.
All they're taughtest punishment, nothing that has to do with
(25:33):
good therapeutic health.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Survivors fighting trauma from therapy camps speak out after a
twelve year old boy dies.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
How can a twelve year old boy who had been
suffering panic attacks after being taken to Trails Carolina therapeutic camp,
How can you end up dead in the last hours
we learn the medical examiner has ruled it a homicide
by a sphyxy.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
It sounds like the camp.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Canselers just stood by while the little boy was having
a panic attack. So what do we know about Trails Carolina?
And let me remind you this is not just happening
at Trails Carolina as a matter of fact, listen to this.
Speaker 17 (26:21):
Constantly reported that he was left in a room for
days with basically they just would leave them, feed them,
let them out, made him pee in a jug, tackled
by staff constantly, which was always denied. I asked them
to view cameras every time it happened it was somewhere
where there was in the cameras. He got into a
little bit of trouble when he got a nothing major,
(26:42):
but a week later he took his life. I think
he thought he was going to end up back there.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That dad is talking about Proso Canyon, where children and
teens were gooned, forced to go there, and when things
went sideways, they were not allowed to contact their parents.
When they did call home, they were monitored as to
what they were saying. For us to being a form
(27:07):
of solitary confinement, only given sporadic meals and forced to
urinate in a jug. So the boy comes back home
after a stint at Provo and gets into minor trouble.
He was not threatened with being sent back to Provo,
but he was afraid he was going back and committed suicide.
(27:31):
That was the father of Trevor Hooker speaking out. And
it's not just these two camps. It's happening industrywide across
our country. Meg Applegate and joining us CEO of Unsilenced,
who endured similar conditions herself and is now fighting to
(27:52):
change it. I don't think parents understand what's happening. I
mean parents send their children to camp, just like I
was sent to four eight with no idea what's gonna happen,
what the child gets there?
Speaker 14 (28:05):
Meg, It's true, It's true.
Speaker 15 (28:07):
And I don't think parents understand or the general public
in general, that we're talking about one hundred and twenty
to two hundred thousand kids a year are ending up
in these kind of programs.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
What more do we know about what happened to the
night this twelve year old child dies After the.
Speaker 11 (28:23):
Twelve year old has a panic attack around midnight. A
councilor told investigators that the boy was checked on throughout
the night, starting at twelve am, with additional checks on
his well being at three am and six am. At
seven forty five am, the boy is found dead. According
to the search warrant, when investigators arrived on scene, CJH.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Was stiff and cold to the touch.
Speaker 11 (28:44):
He was lying on his back, his arms were on
his chest, and his knees bent upward towards the sky.
Also in the search warrant, investigators noted spots of bleeding
under the skin, possible patikia in the boy's lips and eyes.
Thepr mask was covering the boy's face and he was
not wearing pants or underwear. His pants and underwear were
lying next to his shoulder.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
To doctor eric Asen, a Board certify Forensic Pathologists and consultant,
doctor Ason.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
You've just heard the description given as to how the
twelve year old boy was found dead.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Particularly the partikia the burst blood vessels.
Speaker 8 (29:22):
Well, patikii are typically found in individuals who can die
from asphyxia.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
That's usually asphyxia.
Speaker 8 (29:30):
From like a hanging or a strangulation, when there's some
type of pressure on the neck and it causes a
pressure build up of a blood and the blood bustles
in the eye and then they will rupture and cause
these small dots known as patikii. So you typically see
them in asphyxia, but there's other causes of petikii. So
you don't just want to say, hey, if you see PETIKIAI,
(29:50):
this is definitely an asphyxial death. They can happen from CPR,
they can actually happen from a heart attack.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
You can actually sneeze really hard and cause patikia in
your face.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Hold on just a moment.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I'm hearing a subtle but important distinction doctor eric Ason.
When they particularizes the very tiny blood vessels in your eyes,
I guess your lips and elsewhere, possibly your your nasal passages.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
When they burst.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
If you simply run out of air, will they burst
or does there need to be some sort of pressure
such as a pillow over the face, some sort of
mechanical pressure. When I say mechanical, I mean hands ligatory
pillow put.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Right, and there needs to be pressure.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Would they burst simply from running out of air?
Speaker 7 (30:45):
No, that's not the typical explanation for I form.
Speaker 8 (30:49):
They're gonna They's gonna be some some type of physical
trauma to a blood vessel to cause that to happen,
and that.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Is the crux here or Esen, go with me on this.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
I'm trying to explain this in regular people talk, but
I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. This boy,
if his patikia were burst in his lips, did not
die of just running out of air in his sleeping bag.
First of all, the sleeping bag a bivy. Everybody that
camps knows not to do what they did. The boy
(31:26):
was sleeping a sleeping bag in a bivy which comes
up around you kind of like a canoe and there
was a covering over it. Very often used. My son's
got one and he will camp out just out in
the middle of nowhere. It looks like a sleeping mag
with a top over it to keep mosquitoes out. He
had this child had the outer weather proof covering over him,
(31:53):
which you're not supposed to do because it can seal.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Out the air.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Unlike the mesh one, it's breatheable. But uh huh No,
if there were burst partikia and his lips, then.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
There had to be some type of mechanical force on him.
Am I making any sense?
Speaker 7 (32:13):
It makes sense to me?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yes, what do you think?
Speaker 7 (32:15):
Yeah? I agree.
Speaker 8 (32:16):
I think there had to be some type of pressure
on the neck or on the blood belts of the
face to cause the petikii if they were definitely found
an autopsy, and I don't recall if they were.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, I mean, we just heard the reporter state that
there was damage to the patikia at the.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Time Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Nick Oxner joining me from WBTV way in because the
medical examiner there at Wake Forest Baptist Medical has ruled
this a homicide. And I also noticed that in the
autopsy there was bruising on the thighs, and there was bruising,
(33:10):
I believe on page four as I was analyzing it,
another bruise on the hip, the hip and the thigh.
That's disturbing. Why does this frail, pale little boy have bruising.
He had no health complaints prior to this. He didn't hyperventilate,
(33:33):
he had never had respiratory problems, Nick, nothing like that.
So his hyoid was intact, which rules out, well, not
necessarily a strangulation. But I'm concerned that I'm hearing there
was particular damage.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah, What I think is interesting is that the autopsy
notes the bruising, like you said, but then also says
there is no signs of real trauma. It also says
that investigators did a sexual assault examination kit post mortem, obviously, and.
Speaker 10 (34:08):
That was negative.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Nick, my dear sweet boy, my naive investigatiory border. You
think just because there's no tearing, bruising or blood and
his anus, that there's not a sex assault. Just talking
about what's in the papers, Nancy, True, You're right, You're
right again, And as you know, I.
Speaker 10 (34:29):
Think it's instructive and as you're doing as well. I
sit down, I.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Read the autopsy report, and I read what's in there
and what's not in there, and I look at what
is written versus what else we know or other questions
we have. But I think it's helpful to follow along
what's in this autopsy, just like you're doing right now,
and continue to raise questions.
Speaker 18 (34:48):
The twelve year old is not the first youth that
the camp has dealt with. Alec was able to walk
away from the camp in November of twenty fourteen, only
to be found in a stream dead. Investigators believe he
fell while climbing a tree, breaking his hip as he
landed in the stream below. Unable to move, the teen
died from hypothermia.
Speaker 9 (35:06):
Before the death of the twelve year old, Trails Carolina
has been dealing with other issues in court. Most recently,
a federal lawsuit was filed on February nine by a
former camper who says when she was twelve, she told
staffers that another child was sexually assaulting fellow campers. According
to the lawsuit, counselors at Trails Carolina did nothing to
(35:28):
stop the alleged assaults. The former camper is now twenty
years old, and tells the Charlotte Observer the most upsetting
part for her is the trauma she experienced was preventable.
Her suit follows a similar suit filed last year in
federal court claiming a former camper alleges that camp counselors
didn't do enough to prevent an older camper from sexually
(35:51):
assaulting her in twenty nineteen, even though she asked for
help multiple times.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
An investigation underway after a shocking autopsy rules a twelve
year old boys cause of death a homicide at a
wilderness therapy camp.
Speaker 13 (36:08):
This is what I know.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
The sheriffs who went to the scene and see the
body stated there was bleeding under the skin of the
boy's lips and eyes, possible PARTICKI. And it's totally not
even really mentioned in the autopsy report. Why that doesn't
(36:31):
sound like he just ran out of air in his buvy.
Also that night, Nick Oxter, we hear that the counselors
kept coming to his buvy because he was thrashing about
but they didn't do anything.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
In fact, one of the counselors in that room told
state investigators with the Department of Health and Human Services that.
Speaker 10 (36:54):
He felt like he failed the boy or could have
done more to prevent his death.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
It is pretty clear now from what we know from
investigators that those counselors at one point, we're all asleep
inside that cabin, and that the boy was found, if
you read the autopsy, was down one hundred and eighty
degrees turned from from inside the bivy sack where he
was zipped inside. That's all that we've been able to
(37:20):
glean from these public reports so far.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
In other words, he was upside down. For instance, if
you were on a bed, your feet would be on
the pillow and your head would be at the baseboard.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
That's not right.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
And we know the boy was thrashing around more than
once in the night and they did nothing. I mean,
I'm not convinced he died from just running out of air.
With the PARTICULARI The sheriff noted that said, back to
Lianne Roberts, who attended Trails Carolina age twelve.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
What was it like being there? Leanne?
Speaker 12 (37:53):
And it was like very traumatic to say the least.
It's you know, I carry still to this day a
lot of the memories and the trauma that I'm working through.
It was a very emotionally hostile environment. You're being monitored
twenty four to seven, and so it doesn't really feel
(38:15):
like there's room to breathe, room to do something wrong,
room to have feelings. Emotional outbursts or even crying. Were
really kind of punished, heavily punished, and I mean the
punishments were cruel. When you don't have anything left to
take away, they have to get kind of creative. And
(38:37):
so every day you could earn, you know, time to
talk if you did something within the timeframe that they
allotted you, or you could earn what was called a
negative consequence. And so everything you did, every breath you
took had some sort of you know, negative or positive consequence.
There wasn't any time to just like breathe freely. And
(38:58):
the negative consequence, as we're, pretty disturbing to say the least.
There was one that sticks out to me in particular always,
which is what staff would call pea party. And pea
party is as disgusting and disturbing as it may sound.
It meant that if somebody had to use the restroom
(39:19):
in the middle of the night, you know, you have
to wake up a staff to say that. You know,
you have to go to the restroom because you have
to be monitored, you have to be listened to and watched.
And if you woke up a staff in the middle
of the night, doesn't matter the hour to use the restroom.
They woke everybody up and everyone had to stand around
until said person was finished using the restroom, kind of
(39:42):
as like a you know, it was more so a
reward to the staff that they wouldn't have to wake
up in the middle of the night to facilitate a
bathroom break, because it was like such a shame filled
negative consequence and that was, you know, kind of the
theme of my whole say, there was a lot of shame.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
You're hearing Lean Raw speak out and Meg Applegate as well,
Nick Oxner, who has been investigating this particular camp for
now three years. This is so pervasive in the camping industry.
One victim a name you'll know, Paris Hilton.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Listen.
Speaker 19 (40:16):
A seventeen year old Paris Hilton is sent by her
family to the Provo Canyon School in Utah. In a
documentary This Is Paris, she describes the place as a
prison camp with solitary confinement and physical abuse. She details
being forced to submit to a pelvic exam, then being
forced to wear a pair of faded sweats labeled with
(40:37):
the number one twenty seven. That number became her identity
and her name. Hilton says the staff would choke and
beat campers. Speaking before lawmakers, Hilton described how children were restrained, hit,
thrown into walls, strangled, and sexually abused regularly.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
At Provo, A twelve year old boy dead at summer
camp after just twenty four hours?
Speaker 3 (41:02):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Joining me Leanne Roberts, who attended the same camp age twelve,
and Meg Applegate, author of Becoming Unsilenced, Surviving and Fighting
the troubled teen industry. Meg Applegate, You've been listening to
the facts presented in this case along with Karen Stark's psychologist,
and I'm sure that you have an opinion on what
(41:27):
has happened to this twelve year old boy?
Speaker 3 (41:29):
And what do you make of Leanne Roberts description.
Speaker 15 (41:33):
I've likely talked to over one hundred survivors from Trails, Carolina,
and you take Lianne's experience and you copy and paste
it to all the others, and it doesn't matter what
year they went. They're really experiencing all the same things.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
What sort of things are you describing, Meg.
Speaker 15 (41:51):
Everything that you've heard as far as being denied bathroom breaks,
enough food, honestly adequate water and clean for that, I've
talked to many survivors who have gotten parasites and giardia
and all of these things from not or being not
allowed to have clean water sources or having broken filters.
(42:11):
It's absolutely horrendous, Leanne.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Were you ever given a chance to tell your parents
what was happening to come get you out of there?
Speaker 12 (42:19):
Yeah, my first or second day, I wrote a letter
to my dad and I have those letters now in verbatim.
I say, this is traumatizing. I'm not safe here, these
kids are not well. And when that letter was sent out,
I think it is pretty protocol for my therapists at
(42:41):
the time, or just their program in general. They prep
parents for that. So they literally had told my dad's
word for word what I was going to say and
that I was a liar before they had sent that letter,
and so it was a weird. It reinstalled his trust
in the program because he thought, if they're able to
(43:02):
predict these patterns and behaviors and literally what my daughter
is going to do, then they must know what they're
talking about, when really he was being lied to and
deceived and becoming a victim of this industry as well.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
The warning is out parents, this is camping season.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
You have the chance to protect your children from camps,
just like Trails Carolina.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Nick Auxtar, what's going to happen to Trails Carolina.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Well, their license has been revoked by the North Carolina
Department of Health and Human Services.
Speaker 10 (43:35):
So effectively it shut down.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
They have an opportunity to appeal that so that could
be reversed, but it's basically been shut down most of
this year since this boy died, and it looks like
it will continue to remain closed.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
It's amazing, Meg Applegate, that it took another death at
another camp before the camp was reprimanded, after all of
the complaints that have been lodged, all the children that
have suffered there, this boy had to die.
Speaker 14 (44:05):
I know, and honestly, that's a lot of time.
Speaker 15 (44:08):
What it takes, unfortunately, is a child dying in one
of these facilities for people to finally pay attention. And
in this case, so we have Alec Lansing who died
many years before that at Trails Carolina and still it
took this amount of time.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Thank you to our guests for being with us and
speaking out, but especially to you for joining us here
on crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A little boy just twelve
years old. What is that fifth grade is dead after
just twenty four hours at summer camp, found dead without
his pants in the last hours. Ruled a homicide. Good evening,
(00:25):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
A twelve year old boy dies just twenty four hours
after arriving at a wilderness therapy camp. His death now
ruled a homicide.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Good Lord in heaven, you send your child away to
a wellness camp for his own good on beautiful trails
and forested areas in Carolina, and in less than twenty
four hours at camp.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
He's dead.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Last hours, this little boy's death has been ruled a homicide.
With me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now, including an investigative reporter, a
renowned medical examiner, therapist, and importantly the co founder CEO
of unsilenced, a victim of the troubled teen industry, and
(01:25):
a beautiful young woman who attended the camp at just
age twelve like this little boy, as I like to
do with juries when I can. Let's go back to
when this happened and hear the nine to one one
call based as.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
A side unders finding Cambro Trus, Carolina.
Speaker 5 (01:47):
So a girl now alas Thursday ones that are out
of cities. Goty's responding, I've brought podcast the college pos
for us. I'm not sure I'm thinking contact with them again.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
When we looked up their codes eight and eleven, we
learned that means carbon monoxide inhalation or choking. So that
tells NIL one immediately that there's some type of respiratory
sell your let's listen to more.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
Yeah, I didn't go the SURGU twelve one two.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Okay, maybe four CPR is being given at this time.
Speaker 6 (02:40):
I had to add somebody up the flag.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Y'all had just behind the five hundred buildings. I can
lose a contact with the subject core service.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
I'm here. I don't see work.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I mean, my stars, you've got a little boy dying
or dead on your watch.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's just been ruled homicide.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
This camp is full of counselors and kids, and they
don't have anybody out there to direct the ambulance to
the right location in a giant wilderness camp. I mean
before I go to Nick Auxner, investigative producer and chief
investigative reporter WBTV to doctor Eric Eeson, renowned forensic pathologist
(03:33):
doctor Ethan. For lack of a better term, that's BS.
I mean, look, my dad had one cardiac event. As
doctors like to say, after the next one of us,
my mom will be performing, be performing CPR, another one
of us will be out in the driveway waving trying
(03:55):
to flag down the ambulance. I mean, every second counts.
And guess what, they saved his life more than once.
So here you got the ambulances driving around the camp
just for starters, trying to find the little boy.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I mean, have you ever heard anything like it? A
camp full of.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Counselors, they're supposed to be trained in CPR and doing
the right thing.
Speaker 7 (04:19):
I've never heard anything like that happened for myself.
Speaker 8 (04:22):
It wasn't a remote area, so maybe that had something
to do with it, But yeah, sounds like it was
a pretty disorganized.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Okay, and that's just exactly what you don't need. Hey,
you know, remote area parents paying thousands of dollars to
send their children.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
This isn't even a teen. He's twelve years.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Old from New York, thousands of miles away in the
middle of the wilderness and nobody can even get the
ambulance to the boy to try to save his life.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Okay, that's just a tip of the iceberg. Listen.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
They said they had to.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Go to the hall to call, said when they woke
up everything we're doing the bed and rest.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Hey, I think I god want when you get to
my truck, come all the way out for here and
get to my truck. Come by that cabin and let's
see you. This is I got you that I'm showing you.
All things come almost so.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
The counselors get told there's something wrong, and now they
say they had to go to the office to make
the call.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So how many more minutes did they lose?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
But listen, their incompetence is really just a tip of
the iceberg.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
For those of you just joining us.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Parents send a twelve year old boy to a wilderness camp,
a wellness camp, as they call it, it's anything but well.
And let me tell you something, this little boy is
not the first time that someone has ended up dead
at Carolina Trails. And then we find out the counselors
(06:04):
of staff won't cooperate with the investigation.
Speaker 9 (06:09):
Listen, the Transylvania County Sheriff's Office said when they arrived
at Trails, Carolina for an unresponsive participant, medicks found evidence
that CPR had been performed, but the child appeared deceased
for some time. But now, in an odd twist of trust,
the Wilderness Therapy Camp in North Carolina is refusing to
(06:30):
allow investigators to talk to staff or juveniles present when
the twelve year old died. According to a search warrant,
the boy suffered a panic attack the night he arrived
at the camp, and the next morning he was found cold, stiff,
and frothing at the mouth, not being able to talk
to staff or campers. It is unclear what caused the
(06:51):
boy to present with frothing from the mouth. According to
an affidavit from the detective that got the search warrant,
froth about the mouth could end kate he ingested some
sort of poison.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
First of all, I gave up cursing where the twins
were born. But every way, every term I can think
of to describe this would break.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
That vow for those of you just joining us.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
A shock coroner's report reveals that a twelve year old
little boy is dead at Trails Carolina Wellness Camp due
to homicide. First of all, I want to go to
Nick Oxnar, joining US executive producer, chief investigative reporter at WBTV,
(07:37):
and he has been investigating Trails Carolina since May twenty
twenty one. Okay, Nick Oxnar, thank you for being with us.
It raises a huge red flag when witnesses and employees
will not cooperate with LA law enforcement.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
That's a I think it was a concern for the sheriff,
and he highlighted that lack of cooperation in the public
and statements that he's made that his deputies couldn't get
information about what happened on the scene, and they've continued investigating.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
You have been investigating. This camp is so called therapeutic camp.
Therapeutic forty nine hundred dollars the last time I looked
to enroll up to seven hundred plus dollars a day
for a twelve year old to do what walk around
the trails and have three hots and a cot.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I mean nearly eight hundred.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Dollars a day, five grand enrollment fee. Why did you,
Nick Oxen, begin investigating Trails Carolina.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Yeah, we got a phone call from a concerned parent
whose child almost went there and Essentially, that phone call
said I've looked into this place and done my own
homework and maybe you ought to look into it as well.
And actually, Nancy, what we found is that the children
attending Trails Carolina most of the time don't even.
Speaker 10 (09:06):
Get a cot.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
They're actually sleeping in a sleeping bag or a sleeping matt,
either in a cabin or out in the wilderness.
Speaker 10 (09:12):
And that's just emblematic.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I say that, because emblematic of the kind of experience
they're getting at this ord, at this facility.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
How did the whole thing start? Listen.
Speaker 11 (09:22):
The parents of a twelve year old boy think Trails
Carolina might be just the place to help their son.
Trails Carolina claims to be a leader in wilderness therapy,
offering an adventure wilderness program for children who have behavioral
and or emotional difficulties. The parents say their boy is
transported by two men from New York to Trails Carolina
Camp at Lake Talksaway, North Carolina. Their son arrives at
(09:44):
the camp in an agitated state. The twelve year old
is loud and disruptive, but he is assigned to a
cabin with other children, as well as four adults in
less than twenty four hours. The twelve year old is dead.
Sheriff Chuck owenb says an autopsy is being conducted because
the death appears suspicious since the boy died at the
camp less than twenty four hours after he arrived.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
A boy dead just twelve years old, twenty four hours
after getting to camp having panic attacks upset. I wonder
why found dead without his pants on joining me In
addition to Nick Oxner from WTV, Leanne Roberts is joining us.
A beautiful young woman who attended Trails Carolina age twelve,
(10:43):
just like this little boy. Leanne, thank you for being
with us. Tell me about your experience at Trails Carolina.
Speaker 12 (10:52):
Yeah, so, from the very first minute that you're there,
it's pretty traumatizing. The thing that they have you do is,
you know, conduct a strip search, and everything you have
is taken from you. And that kind of set the
tone for the rest of my stay there. I experienced,
you know, and witnessed things that no twelve year old
(11:15):
ever should, no child ever, should, no person ever really should,
all in the name of therapy, which we actually weren't
even really receiving. We saw a therapist once to maybe
two times a week. So I mean, yeah, just just horrible.
There were you know, we weren't getting enough food at
(11:38):
twelve years old. I enrolled at ninety pounds and I
left at eighty, so that's ten pounds over a three
month span. I spent Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's there.
We weren't given enough adequate gear for the weather, the temperature,
so we got to like negative twenty degrees and we
had two three layers max. Of really thin clothing.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Just some some horrific, horrific stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know, I'm trying to take in everything that you
were saying, but you gave me so much information I've
got to dissect it.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
You said that you, as a twelve.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Year old little girl, saw things that no child nor
anyone should ever see, such as what you know.
Speaker 12 (12:24):
On many occasions, I saw my friends' faces being pushed
in the ground when being put on a restrictive hold.
I you know, experienced and watched my friends be so
emotionally manipulated. We had a problem with when I was there,
(12:47):
with understaffing, and they wouldn't have enough staff sometimes to
facilitate facilitate bathroom breaks, and so that meant that instead
of letting us use the restroom, they would rather us
like pr pants. And so in a solution to that,
because we weren't doing laundry, we weren't getting showers, everyone
(13:10):
smell of urine, and they threatened, and for some girls
distributed adult diapers instead of letting us use the restroom.
And that's truthfully only like the tip of the iceberg,
which is deeply saddening. But those are, you know, just
a few things that come to mind.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Leanne went to this camp at just twelve years old.
Praise the Lord, she's alive. The damage and the trauma
and the emotional problems it's caused her, that's a whole
nother can of worms. But she's alive, so she lives
to fight another day. She lives to deal with what
(13:49):
happened at Trails, Carolina.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
This little boy.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Didn't live twelve years old, Pale, frail, upset, having panic.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Attacks, and he dies within twenty four hours of going
to this camp. This is camp season. Parents, wake up,
be alert, Lee and Roberts.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You stated that when you got there you had to
be strip searched, that you were not given bathroom breaks,
that the campers were told to wear adult diapers so
they could urinate and defecate in their pants.
Speaker 12 (14:34):
Why, I mean, they would have all these kind of
like safety reasons. They didn't really have an excuse for
the diapers other than it was our fault for drinking
so much water and not managing it, which is ridiculous,
because if you got to go, you gotta go. But
the strip searching, you know, they say it's to make
(14:57):
sure you don't have anything dangerous on you, but they
take away everything you come in with. And I genuinely
do believe that it's, you know, a way to strip
you of your individuality and maybe any comfort you have
going in. You're dressed all the same as the other children.
You don't have anything that, you know, like I said,
(15:18):
as comforting or makes you feel safe or you know,
you're just kind of stripped down to the bone.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
You mentioned the strip search you're describing that, guys, I
doubt all.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Of you parents experience this. If and when you got
to go to camp.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
We got to go to camp at four AH Camp,
and I remember my parents trying to get together the
money to go to four H Camp. It was thirty
seven dollars for each child to go to four ahe
camp and we got to go. But it was a
wonderful fun experience the only time each year that I
(15:57):
would be away from home overnight.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
What you were hearing happened, This happened. There's no doubt
about it.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
A little boy is dead tonight after just twenty four
hours at this camp. It's not just at Trails, Carolina
that this is happening. As a matter of fact, take
a listen to a victim that managed to survive the
(16:29):
Provo Canyon school.
Speaker 13 (16:31):
The first thing that they said to me was you're
going to need to be strip searched, and so they
took me to this room filled with cyber or six
stass in there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I had to remove all my clothes.
Speaker 13 (16:45):
They had to thoroughly.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Examine my body.
Speaker 13 (16:48):
They asked me to sorry to do very strange things
while I was naked. They asked me to bend over,
touch my toes. I had to spread everything apart. I
was told to squat into cough and they had me
(17:10):
do that repeatedly for a few minutes while all the
staff members last and made jokes.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Parents send a twelve year old boy for treatment at
a wilderness therapy camp. He never comes home dying just
twenty four hours later.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Found dead twenty four hours after going to Trails Carolina Camp,
a therapeutic wellness camp for children and teens. Did his
parents have any idea what really went on at that
camp before they sent him. I've heard many, many true
life traumatic stories about how children are basically kidnapped. The
(17:55):
parents know what's happening, but the child doesn't know it's
about to go to a camp, and they are just
taken away and they end up at a camp, a
wellness camp or a boot camp for children and teens.
Joining me, Meg Applegate, co founder, CEO Unsilenced, victim of
(18:16):
trouble Teen Industry, author of Becoming Unsilenced, Surviving and Finding
the trouble teen Industry, and you can find her at
Unsilenced dot org.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Meg, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
A death as if a strip search and malnourishment, beatings, hazings,
adult diapers as if that's not enough, now, Meg, A
death of a twelve year old boy at camp right,
and it's.
Speaker 14 (18:53):
Very, very sad, and unfortunately we're not all that surprised.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
We understand that this little boy was not delivered to
the camp by his parents. That two strangers took kem.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
How does that work?
Speaker 15 (19:06):
Yeah, so we call that an escort service, or a
lot of people call that booning. It's basically when you're
woken up, usually in the middle of the night, you're
told that you're coming with them.
Speaker 14 (19:16):
A lot of times you're.
Speaker 15 (19:17):
Asked to you undressed in front of them as to
go to the bathroom in front of them, and then
you're escorted from your home to wherever you're going to
be gone.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Now, what did you say?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
The phrase to describe it is maybe people call it boning,
gooning g as in gregarious in gooning.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Correct, that's correct. Gooning.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Okay, that evokes nothing but a semblance of fear of
terror to get gooned.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I mean, what do you mean gooned?
Speaker 14 (19:49):
I mean, it's pretty much how it feels myself.
Speaker 15 (19:51):
I was gooned as well, and it's so incredibly traumatic
that it sticks with you for the rest of your life.
Speaker 14 (19:58):
It's truly like you're being kidnapped.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
What happened to you? Exactly?
Speaker 14 (20:01):
So I was woking up around two am by these
two strangers.
Speaker 15 (20:05):
They said, you're coming with us, and we can do
this the easy way or the hard way, and they
indicated that the hard way was going to be in handcuffs.
Speaker 14 (20:14):
So I listened, and they basically made me undress in
front of them.
Speaker 15 (20:18):
Go to the bathroom, threw me into the back of
an suv, and we were off to Lax and off
to my first program.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
To Nick Oxtar joining US chief investigative reporter WBTV, he
has been investigating Trails, Carolina says twenty twenty one, and
there's no reason for that, this guy, Nick, Nick Oxtar
doesn't just get up your tail pipe for no reason.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Nick, again, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
How do the children, the teens get to trails, Carolina?
Because I noticed immediately this little boy and we are
withholding his name, the little boy that ends up dead
without his pants on in the middle of the night.
He did not get escorted there by his parents. They
didn't take him to camp and drop him off like
in What is It? The Parent Trap? Remember that Lindsay
(21:06):
Lohan is taken.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
By the butler. I think it is, and by the
dad and it's wonderful. It's not like that. What is gooning?
Are you familiar with that?
Speaker 7 (21:17):
Nick?
Speaker 6 (21:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Just about every former participant in Trails Carolina that I've
spoken with, and I've talked to more than a half
dozen of them. Just about everybody was gooned or transported
to the camp. And I'll tell you the very few
that I've talked to who weren't had a slightly less
traumatic start to their camping experience. But it's exactly as
(21:39):
I've heard it. Luckily I never had to experience this,
but as I understand, it's exactly like what we just
heard of may describe. These strangers come to your house.
You're woken up in the middle of the night and
taken whisked away unexpectedly by these strangers, you know, far away.
Think about this boy came from New York City.
Speaker 10 (21:57):
To the wilderness of North Carolina.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I've been out to the site of the Trails Carolina
camp and let me tell you it's nothing like New
York City.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert
consultant and you can find her at Karenstark dot com.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And that's Karen with a C in case you're looking
for her.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Karen Stark, you need to write the book on panic attacks,
because you've done.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
So many case studies on that.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
But this little boy gets gooned, as Meg Applegate is
describing it, and Karen, I spoke to you about this
when it occurred. Friends of our children got gooned and
we're taken to a camp across the country and the
(22:53):
girl got to take one pair of underwear and one toothbrush.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
She had no idea that was going to happen.
Speaker 12 (23:03):
And just.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I mean, Karen, that right there, this little twelve year
old boy was having panic attacks. I guess he was
at twelve years old. It's just a baby, for Pete's sake.
What is a panic attack? And I'm getting to something probative,
Karen Stark. I ask you all of these psychological questions
(23:28):
because I want to prove something. I want to prove
something that I can take in front of a jury.
This boy, by all accounts, was having panic attacks. Okay,
he should have been watched even more closely that night,
but instead he ends up dead.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So what is a panic attack and what would the
symptoms be? Karen Stark.
Speaker 16 (23:54):
When you have a panic attack, Nancy, you are feeling
like you're having a heart attack. And many of my
patients describe that because your heart is racing. Your breathing
isn't regular. It's very, very frightening, and people don't understand
that it's something that will pass, that your body is
reacting to trauma. And when you think about and you've
(24:17):
made some good points, this little boy, he's being taken off.
All of these children they're taken away. They are not
able to know ahead of time, and the parents believe
this is a good thing. They're told that, so they
don't even know what is happening to them. They're humiliated,
they're frightened. And you take a child like this, who
(24:39):
already has anxiety and panic attacks, and put him in
a situation that is overwhelming where he has absolutely no
idea what's happening. And it's not the way that you're
supposed to be helping somebody. You're supposed to be helping
a child. That's why they're going there. This is a
cant that's supposed to be providing good services, and instead
(25:02):
they scare them.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
And that is the worst tactic you could use. Karen Stark.
On many occasions, these counselors did nothing, Nancy.
Speaker 16 (25:11):
They can't do anything. They don't have the right training.
They really don't understand what they're doing. And that's one
of the problems. These camps are unregulated. They can hire anyone,
and they are not equipped to deal with real mental
health issues or anything that is out of the ordinary.
All they're taughtest punishment, nothing that has to do with
(25:33):
good therapeutic health.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Survivors fighting trauma from therapy camps speak out after a
twelve year old boy dies.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
How can a twelve year old boy who had been
suffering panic attacks after being taken to Trails Carolina therapeutic camp,
How can you end up dead in the last hours
we learn the medical examiner has ruled it a homicide
by a sphyxy.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
It sounds like the camp.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Canselers just stood by while the little boy was having
a panic attack. So what do we know about Trails Carolina?
And let me remind you this is not just happening
at Trails Carolina as a matter of fact, listen to this.
Speaker 17 (26:21):
Constantly reported that he was left in a room for
days with basically they just would leave them, feed them,
let them out, made him pee in a jug, tackled
by staff constantly, which was always denied. I asked them
to view cameras every time it happened it was somewhere
where there was in the cameras. He got into a
little bit of trouble when he got a nothing major,
(26:42):
but a week later he took his life. I think
he thought he was going to end up back there.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That dad is talking about Proso Canyon, where children and
teens were gooned, forced to go there, and when things
went sideways, they were not allowed to contact their parents.
When they did call home, they were monitored as to
what they were saying. For us to being a form
(27:07):
of solitary confinement, only given sporadic meals and forced to
urinate in a jug. So the boy comes back home
after a stint at Provo and gets into minor trouble.
He was not threatened with being sent back to Provo,
but he was afraid he was going back and committed suicide.
(27:31):
That was the father of Trevor Hooker speaking out. And
it's not just these two camps. It's happening industrywide across
our country. Meg Applegate and joining us CEO of Unsilenced,
who endured similar conditions herself and is now fighting to
(27:52):
change it. I don't think parents understand what's happening. I
mean parents send their children to camp, just like I
was sent to four eight with no idea what's gonna happen,
what the child gets there?
Speaker 14 (28:05):
Meg, It's true, It's true.
Speaker 15 (28:07):
And I don't think parents understand or the general public
in general, that we're talking about one hundred and twenty
to two hundred thousand kids a year are ending up
in these kind of programs.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
What more do we know about what happened to the
night this twelve year old child dies After the.
Speaker 11 (28:23):
Twelve year old has a panic attack around midnight. A
councilor told investigators that the boy was checked on throughout
the night, starting at twelve am, with additional checks on
his well being at three am and six am. At
seven forty five am, the boy is found dead. According
to the search warrant, when investigators arrived on scene, CJH.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Was stiff and cold to the touch.
Speaker 11 (28:44):
He was lying on his back, his arms were on
his chest, and his knees bent upward towards the sky.
Also in the search warrant, investigators noted spots of bleeding
under the skin, possible patikia in the boy's lips and eyes.
Thepr mask was covering the boy's face and he was
not wearing pants or underwear. His pants and underwear were
lying next to his shoulder.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
To doctor eric Asen, a Board certify Forensic Pathologists and consultant,
doctor Ason.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
You've just heard the description given as to how the
twelve year old boy was found dead.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Particularly the partikia the burst blood vessels.
Speaker 8 (29:22):
Well, patikii are typically found in individuals who can die
from asphyxia.
Speaker 7 (29:29):
That's usually asphyxia.
Speaker 8 (29:30):
From like a hanging or a strangulation, when there's some
type of pressure on the neck and it causes a
pressure build up of a blood and the blood bustles
in the eye and then they will rupture and cause
these small dots known as patikii. So you typically see
them in asphyxia, but there's other causes of petikii. So
you don't just want to say, hey, if you see PETIKIAI,
(29:50):
this is definitely an asphyxial death. They can happen from CPR,
they can actually happen from a heart attack.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
You can actually sneeze really hard and cause patikia in
your face.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Hold on just a moment.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I'm hearing a subtle but important distinction doctor eric Ason.
When they particularizes the very tiny blood vessels in your eyes,
I guess your lips and elsewhere, possibly your your nasal passages.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
When they burst.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
If you simply run out of air, will they burst
or does there need to be some sort of pressure
such as a pillow over the face, some sort of
mechanical pressure. When I say mechanical, I mean hands ligatory
pillow put.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
Right, and there needs to be pressure.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Would they burst simply from running out of air?
Speaker 7 (30:45):
No, that's not the typical explanation for I form.
Speaker 8 (30:49):
They're gonna They's gonna be some some type of physical
trauma to a blood vessel to cause that to happen,
and that.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Is the crux here or Esen, go with me on this.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
I'm trying to explain this in regular people talk, but
I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. This boy,
if his patikia were burst in his lips, did not
die of just running out of air in his sleeping bag.
First of all, the sleeping bag a bivy. Everybody that
camps knows not to do what they did. The boy
(31:26):
was sleeping a sleeping bag in a bivy which comes
up around you kind of like a canoe and there
was a covering over it. Very often used. My son's
got one and he will camp out just out in
the middle of nowhere. It looks like a sleeping mag
with a top over it to keep mosquitoes out. He
had this child had the outer weather proof covering over him,
(31:53):
which you're not supposed to do because it can seal.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Out the air.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Unlike the mesh one, it's breatheable. But uh huh No,
if there were burst partikia and his lips, then.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
There had to be some type of mechanical force on him.
Am I making any sense?
Speaker 7 (32:13):
It makes sense to me?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yes, what do you think?
Speaker 7 (32:15):
Yeah? I agree.
Speaker 8 (32:16):
I think there had to be some type of pressure
on the neck or on the blood belts of the
face to cause the petikii if they were definitely found
an autopsy, and I don't recall if they were.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, I mean, we just heard the reporter state that
there was damage to the patikia at the.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Time Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Nick Oxner joining me from WBTV way in because the
medical examiner there at Wake Forest Baptist Medical has ruled
this a homicide. And I also noticed that in the
autopsy there was bruising on the thighs, and there was bruising,
(33:10):
I believe on page four as I was analyzing it,
another bruise on the hip, the hip and the thigh.
That's disturbing. Why does this frail, pale little boy have bruising.
He had no health complaints prior to this. He didn't hyperventilate,
(33:33):
he had never had respiratory problems, Nick, nothing like that.
So his hyoid was intact, which rules out, well, not
necessarily a strangulation. But I'm concerned that I'm hearing there
was particular damage.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah, What I think is interesting is that the autopsy
notes the bruising, like you said, but then also says
there is no signs of real trauma. It also says
that investigators did a sexual assault examination kit post mortem, obviously, and.
Speaker 10 (34:08):
That was negative.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Nick, my dear sweet boy, my naive investigatiory border. You
think just because there's no tearing, bruising or blood and
his anus, that there's not a sex assault. Just talking
about what's in the papers, Nancy, True, You're right, You're
right again, And as you know, I.
Speaker 10 (34:29):
Think it's instructive and as you're doing as well. I
sit down, I.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Read the autopsy report, and I read what's in there
and what's not in there, and I look at what
is written versus what else we know or other questions
we have. But I think it's helpful to follow along
what's in this autopsy, just like you're doing right now,
and continue to raise questions.
Speaker 18 (34:48):
The twelve year old is not the first youth that
the camp has dealt with. Alec was able to walk
away from the camp in November of twenty fourteen, only
to be found in a stream dead. Investigators believe he
fell while climbing a tree, breaking his hip as he
landed in the stream below. Unable to move, the teen
died from hypothermia.
Speaker 9 (35:06):
Before the death of the twelve year old, Trails Carolina
has been dealing with other issues in court. Most recently,
a federal lawsuit was filed on February nine by a
former camper who says when she was twelve, she told
staffers that another child was sexually assaulting fellow campers. According
to the lawsuit, counselors at Trails Carolina did nothing to
(35:28):
stop the alleged assaults. The former camper is now twenty
years old, and tells the Charlotte Observer the most upsetting
part for her is the trauma she experienced was preventable.
Her suit follows a similar suit filed last year in
federal court claiming a former camper alleges that camp counselors
didn't do enough to prevent an older camper from sexually
(35:51):
assaulting her in twenty nineteen, even though she asked for
help multiple times.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
An investigation underway after a shocking autopsy rules a twelve
year old boys cause of death a homicide at a
wilderness therapy camp.
Speaker 13 (36:08):
This is what I know.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
The sheriffs who went to the scene and see the
body stated there was bleeding under the skin of the
boy's lips and eyes, possible PARTICKI. And it's totally not
even really mentioned in the autopsy report. Why that doesn't
(36:31):
sound like he just ran out of air in his buvy.
Also that night, Nick Oxter, we hear that the counselors
kept coming to his buvy because he was thrashing about
but they didn't do anything.
Speaker 6 (36:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
In fact, one of the counselors in that room told
state investigators with the Department of Health and Human Services that.
Speaker 10 (36:54):
He felt like he failed the boy or could have
done more to prevent his death.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
It is pretty clear now from what we know from
investigators that those counselors at one point, we're all asleep
inside that cabin, and that the boy was found, if
you read the autopsy, was down one hundred and eighty
degrees turned from from inside the bivy sack where he
was zipped inside. That's all that we've been able to
(37:20):
glean from these public reports so far.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
In other words, he was upside down. For instance, if
you were on a bed, your feet would be on
the pillow and your head would be at the baseboard.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
That's not right.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
And we know the boy was thrashing around more than
once in the night and they did nothing. I mean,
I'm not convinced he died from just running out of air.
With the PARTICULARI The sheriff noted that said, back to
Lianne Roberts, who attended Trails Carolina age twelve.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
What was it like being there? Leanne?
Speaker 12 (37:53):
And it was like very traumatic to say the least.
It's you know, I carry still to this day a
lot of the memories and the trauma that I'm working through.
It was a very emotionally hostile environment. You're being monitored
twenty four to seven, and so it doesn't really feel
(38:15):
like there's room to breathe, room to do something wrong,
room to have feelings. Emotional outbursts or even crying. Were
really kind of punished, heavily punished, and I mean the
punishments were cruel. When you don't have anything left to
take away, they have to get kind of creative. And
(38:37):
so every day you could earn, you know, time to
talk if you did something within the timeframe that they
allotted you, or you could earn what was called a
negative consequence. And so everything you did, every breath you
took had some sort of you know, negative or positive consequence.
There wasn't any time to just like breathe freely. And
(38:58):
the negative consequence, as we're, pretty disturbing to say the least.
There was one that sticks out to me in particular always,
which is what staff would call pea party. And pea
party is as disgusting and disturbing as it may sound.
It meant that if somebody had to use the restroom
(39:19):
in the middle of the night, you know, you have
to wake up a staff to say that. You know,
you have to go to the restroom because you have
to be monitored, you have to be listened to and watched.
And if you woke up a staff in the middle
of the night, doesn't matter the hour to use the restroom.
They woke everybody up and everyone had to stand around
until said person was finished using the restroom, kind of
(39:42):
as like a you know, it was more so a
reward to the staff that they wouldn't have to wake
up in the middle of the night to facilitate a
bathroom break, because it was like such a shame filled
negative consequence and that was, you know, kind of the
theme of my whole say, there was a lot of shame.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
You're hearing Lean Raw speak out and Meg Applegate as well,
Nick Oxner, who has been investigating this particular camp for
now three years. This is so pervasive in the camping industry.
One victim a name you'll know, Paris Hilton.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
Listen.
Speaker 19 (40:16):
A seventeen year old Paris Hilton is sent by her
family to the Provo Canyon School in Utah. In a
documentary This Is Paris, she describes the place as a
prison camp with solitary confinement and physical abuse. She details
being forced to submit to a pelvic exam, then being
forced to wear a pair of faded sweats labeled with
(40:37):
the number one twenty seven. That number became her identity
and her name. Hilton says the staff would choke and
beat campers. Speaking before lawmakers, Hilton described how children were restrained, hit,
thrown into walls, strangled, and sexually abused regularly.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
At Provo, A twelve year old boy dead at summer
camp after just twenty four hours?
Speaker 3 (41:02):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Joining me Leanne Roberts, who attended the same camp age twelve,
and Meg Applegate, author of Becoming Unsilenced, Surviving and Fighting
the troubled teen industry. Meg Applegate, You've been listening to
the facts presented in this case along with Karen Stark's psychologist,
and I'm sure that you have an opinion on what
(41:27):
has happened to this twelve year old boy?
Speaker 3 (41:29):
And what do you make of Leanne Roberts description.
Speaker 15 (41:33):
I've likely talked to over one hundred survivors from Trails, Carolina,
and you take Lianne's experience and you copy and paste
it to all the others, and it doesn't matter what
year they went. They're really experiencing all the same things.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
What sort of things are you describing, Meg.
Speaker 15 (41:51):
Everything that you've heard as far as being denied bathroom breaks,
enough food, honestly adequate water and clean for that, I've
talked to many survivors who have gotten parasites and giardia
and all of these things from not or being not
allowed to have clean water sources or having broken filters.
(42:11):
It's absolutely horrendous, Leanne.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Were you ever given a chance to tell your parents
what was happening to come get you out of there?
Speaker 12 (42:19):
Yeah, my first or second day, I wrote a letter
to my dad and I have those letters now in verbatim.
I say, this is traumatizing. I'm not safe here, these
kids are not well. And when that letter was sent out,
I think it is pretty protocol for my therapists at
(42:41):
the time, or just their program in general. They prep
parents for that. So they literally had told my dad's
word for word what I was going to say and
that I was a liar before they had sent that letter,
and so it was a weird. It reinstalled his trust
in the program because he thought, if they're able to
(43:02):
predict these patterns and behaviors and literally what my daughter
is going to do, then they must know what they're
talking about, when really he was being lied to and
deceived and becoming a victim of this industry as well.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
The warning is out parents, this is camping season.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
You have the chance to protect your children from camps,
just like Trails Carolina.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Nick Auxtar, what's going to happen to Trails Carolina.
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Well, their license has been revoked by the North Carolina
Department of Health and Human Services.
Speaker 10 (43:35):
So effectively it shut down.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
They have an opportunity to appeal that so that could
be reversed, but it's basically been shut down most of
this year since this boy died, and it looks like
it will continue to remain closed.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
It's amazing, Meg Applegate, that it took another death at
another camp before the camp was reprimanded, after all of
the complaints that have been lodged, all the children that
have suffered there, this boy had to die.
Speaker 14 (44:05):
I know, and honestly, that's a lot of time.
Speaker 15 (44:08):
What it takes, unfortunately, is a child dying in one
of these facilities for people to finally pay attention. And
in this case, so we have Alec Lansing who died
many years before that at Trails Carolina and still it
took this amount of time.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Thank you to our guests for being with us and
speaking out, but especially to you for joining us here
on crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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