February 19, 2025 • 40 mins
Recent reports of a missing child have many Muncie, Indiana residents asking, how does a little boy disappear without anyone realizing for nearly 5 years? Hayden Manis, now just a few months from his 10th birthday, was last seen in early 2020. The little boy believed to be living with his father, Dustin Manis, but a chance run in between two relatives reveals Manis has told several conflicting stories about Hayden’s whereabouts. Law enforcement now trying to recover from a years-long delay following the death of the main person of interest, Dad Dustin Manis.
Early September 2024, more than a year after Dustin’s last text to a family member, two of Hayden’s great-grandmothers run into each other at the grocery store and get to talking about Dustin and his son. One says Dustin told her DCS gave Dustin’s mom full custody in 2022..but the other had heard nothing about that. After some discussion, the extremely concerned family reaches out to both DCS and police, asking for a welfare check for Hayden.
Nearly 5 years after he’s last seen, now 9-year-old Hayden Manis is reported missing. While family last saw Hayden on Christmas Eve 2019, investigators say they have a verified sighting by someone other than his father on January 11, 2020.
Delaware County Sheriffs are desperate to locate Hayden Manis and are asking the public for help. Hayden has brown hair and blue eyes. The then 4-year-old was 3’4” and weighed roughly 50 pounds at the time of his disappearance, but would now be almost 10, his birthday coming up in May. If you have any information on Hayden Manis, missing from Muncie, Indiana please call the Delaware County Sheriff’s Office at (765) 747-7885.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Eric Hoffman - Prosecuting Attorney, 46th Judicial Circuit of Indiana, Delaware County Prosecutor’s Office, www.co.delaware.in.us/department/?fDD=16-0, Facebook: www.facebook.com/Delacopros, Twitter: @ProsecutorDelCo,
- Ben Powers - Criminal Defense Attorney, Facebook: Legal Powers PLLC, https://legalpowers.com
- Brian Fitzgibbons - Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, Leads a team of investigators specializing in locating missing persons, website: www.uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security
- Dr. Cheryl Arutt - Licensed Clinical and Forensic Psychologist specializing in Trauma Recovery, PTSD and EMDR, askdrcheryl.com, CreativeEMDR.com , IG: @askdrcheryl
- Douglas Walker - Crime and Justice Reporter from The Star Press, website: thestarpress.com; Twitter: @DouglasWalkerSP
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A little boy just four vanishes five years ago without
family realizing he's gone. Tonight, Where's Hayden? I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Where is four year old Hayden man Is from Indiana?
The young child reportedly last seen at a family Christmas
gathering in twenty nineteen. He's not been seen since.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Mystery swirling around a little boy just four years.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Old at the time he was last seen live.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
How is it that family doesn't realize he's missing for
five years? Police now play catch up in a missing
child case. Let it sink in. Four year old Hayden
was last seen at a Christmas gathering five years ago.
(01:09):
Any and all leeds are probably cold by now. How
can we find Hayden? Let's see pictures of Hayden right now?
This is all coming out of Munsey, Indiana. This four
year old little boy, last scene five years ago. Hayden
(01:29):
Ian Lee Manus joining me an all star panel to
make sense of what we are hearing tonight.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That is from the Awareness Ink on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Everybody, if you want to find out more about Hayden
and how you can help find him. Is Hayden Mannus,
age four, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
First of all, take a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Recent reports of a missing child have many monthsy Indiana
residents asking how does a little boy disappear without anyone realizing?
For nearly five years, Hayden Manus, now just a few
months from his tenth birthday, was last seen in early
twenty twenty. The little boy believed to be living with
his father, Dustin Manus, but a chance run in between
(02:12):
two relatives reveals Mannus has told several conflicting stories about
Hayden's whereabouts.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Joining me in All Star Palell, But first I want
to go to Brian Fitzgibbons is joining us. He is
the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security. He leads
a team of highly trained investigator specializing and finding missing
people at Uspasecurity dot Com. Brian in a nutshell, This
(02:41):
trail is so cold, but Crime Stories is not giving up.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
On trying to find out where is Hayden?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Why does every hour, the hour, the minutes actually matter?
And now we're looking at five years before the family
realizes he's it is saying, I mean.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
So often, Nancy, we talk about forty eight hours being
a long time in a missing child case. In this case,
we're dealing with five years. So we're constructing a new
timeline now as this show airs and gets national attention,
a new timeline is going to begin of when people
connected to this case begin talking about Hayden again.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Joining me in addition to Brian fitz Gibbons, an incredible
panel joining us tonight special guest Eric Hoffman. He is
currently a prosecuting attorney in the forty six Judicial Circuit
Indiana and the Delaware County Prosecutor's Office. He has been
investigating this case for so long, and because you're in
(03:43):
the middle of an ongoing investigation, I understand that your
hands are somewhat tied and everything you can say, But
let me ask you a few general questions, Eric Hoffman,
as fitz Gibbons just told us, literally, it's hard to
understand unless you're in the middle of it. Every minute
counts when a child goes missing. Just think about if
the child's in a car, for instance.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Sixty mph, sixty.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Miles an hour, that child is getting further and further
and further away by the minute.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Have you ever seen a case before.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
This one where the family didn't realize the child was
missing for five years.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
No, No, I haven't, Nancy, And I think, as you said,
each passing minute, particularly four years, makes the case and
the investigation exponentially.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
If you know or think you know anything about the
disappearance of Hayden, please dial Delaware County Sheriff's Department seven
sixty five seven four seven seven eight eight five. Now
hold on, let's back it up just a moment. Let's
back it up.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Joining me right now, Crime and Justice reporter from.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The Star Press, Douglas Walker, joining us out of Muncy. Douglas,
thank you for being with us. This case has been
consuming you.
Speaker 7 (05:05):
Why just see very odd circumstances that there would be
such an incredible delay in making police aware of the
fact that this child is missing. It just appears to
baffle people as to how that could even possibly.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Happen, you know, Douglas. By the way, guys, you're seeing
a little graduation photo.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It must have been from pre K pre pre pre
K because he went missing at age four. That is
from Hayden Manus's family to news outlets, Douglas, I tend
to as a crime victim project experiences that I had
or crime victims that I represented, practicing law for thirteen years,
(05:52):
most of it in intercity Atlanta, prosecuting felonies. But let
me tell you, Douglas, not long after the twins were born,
they were about nineteen months they just started walking, okay,
and we were in one of those giant superstores babies
or us, I think it was. And some mom had,
(06:12):
you know, guilted me out at the community pool because
she made her own organic sunscreen. So I was trying
to find organic sun tanlation, right, and I had the
twins with me. I was alone with them, and I
was on the very bottom shelf and it went from
floor all the way to the ceiling practically. And I
stood up and I said, well, twins, I don't see
(06:34):
anything like that here. And there was Lucy, my little girl,
and no John David. I looked around for him. I
couldn't find him.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I picked Lucy up like a football and started running.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I can still hear my tennis shoes on that lineolium
floor and screaming, locked the doors, my baby is missing,
screaming help me.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I didn't wait five years to say John David's missing.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I found him. He was playing a game, so I
didn't fuss at him. I didn't want to traumatize him.
I was traumatized.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But five years when did you first learn about this case? Douglas?
Speaker 7 (07:15):
The family of the missing boy initially took it to
an Indianapolis television station. It's my understanding that perhaps sheriff's
deputies would have preferred waiting to make things public, but
that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
The wait who wanted to wait to make it public?
Speaker 7 (07:34):
The Sheriff's department, which is the primary investigator here, had
not made an announcement concerning this. They found out that
the boy was missing in September and we're investigating, and
apparently thought it would be in their best interests to
not make an announcement, as they attempted to talk to
people somewhat quietly because so much time had passed. So
(07:58):
at any rate, I.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Think, I say, that is against everything that I know
about finding missing people.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I don't understand that at all.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Eric Hoffman, hypothetically speaking, why would l E law enforcement
want to wait to make public a missing child?
Speaker 6 (08:16):
I think the investigation had just begun. It was September
fifth of twenty twenty four. The Sheriff's department brought me
in on the case and we discussed it and interviews
were ongoing. I think the information was coming in fast
at that point. Certain things had to be checked, Certain
people's credibility had to be coroborated before we were ready
(08:39):
to go public and say this child is missing.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay, Eric Hoffman, I know that there must be something
you're not able to disclose, because when a child is
missing and there's a chance to recover the child, that
is a pr believe to try to find the child. Now,
that's according to my experience and my great mentor, Mark Class,
(09:06):
who's daughter Pauli went missing, and he actually school's parents
about what to do if their child goes missing, and
the number one thing is get it out on the media.
But you're telling me, Ellie, law enforcement wanted to wigh
witnesses credibility.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I'm trying to read between the lines what that could.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Possibly mean about not learning everyone that the child was missing.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I know your record.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You have an incredible estellar record, so I know you
have a reason for going along with this. Can you
share that reason or is it confidential?
Speaker 6 (09:42):
I can't get into too much of the specifics, but
I think I would absolutely agree with you. Four years ago.
That would be the first thing that we'd want to
do is get Hayden's picture on the TV and get
his story out there so people could call in. But
again we're talking about a four year delay before law
enforcement knows anything about it. You have to consider in
(10:06):
this investigation, there's really two outcomes, or there's really two
possibilities at this point. Is Hayden alive? Is Hayden dead?
And so in investigating those two different possibilities, you know
the investigation can grow those ways.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Two Douglas Walker joining US Crime and Justice report of
the Star Press. Douglas, I just don't understand how the
extended family, such as grandparents, aunts and uncles didn't notice. Hey,
we haven't seen him, we haven't seen a picture of him.
He's not on a Christmas car, he's not at a
(10:55):
little preschool graduation.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
We've got nothing. What they didn't notice.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
They have described an estrangement with the boy's father, Dustin Manus,
describing various situations where they invited him to bring Hayden
to their homes at family gatherings, holiday gatherings, things of
this nature, and that he would indicate sure that will happen,
(11:21):
and then they just simply didn't show up, and as such,
the actual family members haven't seen him for five years.
I was told that investigators have determined someone being aware
of Hayden's presence as recently as the fall of twenty twenty,
so four and a half years of nothing.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
We are hearing from Douglas Walker from the Star Press.
There may have been a siding as recently as fall
twenty twenty. That makes the time period less right the
time he's been missing, and you can extrapolate from that
that even though he may not be with his bioppearents
that he is alive somewhere. Now, this is my understanding.
(12:09):
Let me go straight out to doctor Cheryl Eric.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
She is a.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Licensed clinical forensic psychologist specializing in trauma recovery. You can
find her at askdoctor Cheryl dot com.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Doctor Eric, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's my understanding, and everybody on the panel correct me
if I've got this wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
That the son.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Had a falling out with his father, Hayden's grandfather. Okay,
they had a falling out. Of course, the son stops
out with Hayden, and that that is why the family
kind of chalked it off that the son's not bringing
Hayden around.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
That's why they're not seeing him.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know, when families split and they have a problem,
there are no more happy Thanksgivings and Christmases together, and
very often that's the only time extended family sees the child,
the grandchild.
Speaker 8 (13:01):
That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (13:02):
And when we unpack this estrangement, I think we have
to think about it with the father's addiction in mind,
because one of the things we know when people have
active addictions to things like meth, cocaine, heroine, these are
things that can really interfere with somebody being able to
(13:23):
be a safe parent. But one of the other things
we see is incredible denial, denial that there's a problem.
A lot of times the family wants to believe the
best of the person who has the active addiction. And
some of what we're hearing is that the estrangement had
something to do with him feeling like they were judging
him about his addiction. They wanted to take Hayden away,
(13:47):
but the family knew about the addition problems that Dustin
was having. And what you want, especially when someone has
had these problems, you want supervision. You want to know,
not just that they did the minim in terms of
probation or being able to get a child back, but
you want to know are they going to meetings?
Speaker 8 (14:07):
Can you see them? I mean, most single parents, even
without this really welcome extended loving, extended family health. It's
a lot to have a little kid as a single parent,
and one would really expect that if he were really
doing what he said he was doing, he would want
(14:27):
to have them around, even if there was a phone
me out.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Four year old Hayden Manus is critically missing his family,
desperate for answers. Dad says CPS returned Hayden to his moms,
but the story is not adding up.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Where is Hayden?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Why did it take relatives five years to realize he's missing?
And when was the last time I can verify that
he was seeing Listen?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
The father and son frequently visit family over the first
year after Dustin regains custody, but after a fight with
his dad, family members see less and less of Dustin
and Hayden. The last time for the family's gift exchange
on Christmas Eve twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
When's the last time you saw Hayden? Christmas Eve? Twenty
nineteen at our family gathering. He was getting presents. He
was excited. That was the last time.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
That is from WTHR thirteen and the photos you were
seeing were provided to the Independent by Gary mannis straight
out to Eric Hoffman, joining US Prosecuting Attorney forty six
Judicial Circuit, Indiana, who has been investigating this case for
months after he, like us, find out Hayden's been missing
(15:44):
for five years? When can we start our timeline, Eric,
when do you believe is the last credible sighting of
this little boy?
Speaker 6 (15:56):
I don't think we can pinpoint it to a particular date.
I think the credible information we have would have been
sometime between Christmas of twenty nineteen and early twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Joining me now being powers veteran trial lawyer, and you
can find him at legalpowers dot com. Ben, thank you
for being with us. You know, in some jurisdictions, I
know in Alabama is called Achilles law. In some jurisdictions,
it's actually a crime not to immediately report your child missing.
(16:32):
Did you know that that trend is catching fire across
the nation. It's becoming a statute in the black and
white letter of the law.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Ben, Yeah, that is becoming a more common law across
the nation to have reporting requirements for missing children for
the obvious reasons. You know, time is of the essence
when we're dealing with missing children, and the more time
it goes on, the harder it gets to find the
right answers, find the conclusions that you're new and so
those reporting requirements are becoming a popular trend nationally.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And the seminal case that shocked our country in the
case of two year old Kelly Anthony who goes missing
near Orlando, Florida, we really don't know how long taught
mom Casey Anthony waited to report Kelly missing.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Listen, Oh my daughter, baboo.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I need to find her.
Speaker 11 (17:28):
Your daughter admitted that the baby is later, maybe kind
of took her a month ago. Is that my daughter's
been looking for I told you my daughter was missing
four months. I just found her today that I can't
find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me she's been
trying to find for her herself. There's something wrong. I
saw my daughter's cars today and it's not a dead daughter.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Clo.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, what is the three year old's name?
Speaker 11 (17:51):
Kelly c A Y L E. E.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Anthony just a few months short of being three. Kelly missing.
Now listen to top mom Casey Anthony's explanation.
Speaker 11 (18:06):
You last saw her a month ago, thirty one days
from thirty one days?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Who have her? Do you a name?
Speaker 11 (18:16):
Her name is Janeva Fernando's jo Wallis.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Who is that?
Speaker 11 (18:20):
Maybe she has been my nanny for bout a year
and ago, for almost two years? Why why are you
calling now?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Why didn't you call it thirty one days ago?
Speaker 11 (18:29):
I've been looking for her and have gone through other
resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I've been looking for her at and have gone through
other resources to try to find her, which is stupid.
Did you hear that?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Did you hear that obvious break in the sentence where
taught mom Casey Anthony is trying to think up what
she could possibly say for waiting a month to report
her child missing. Oh, that's a lie. There is no
Zannaia Fernandez Gonzalez babysitter. There is no babysitter, There is
no nanny. In fact, her whole life was a lie.
(19:10):
She would sit on a parent's sofa every day and
a chips while they paid for everything for Kelly took
care of Kelley, changed Kelly's die piece, bought her clothes,
bought her food.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Housed her, loved her.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
She even had a fake uniform from Universal Studios and
a little name tag right, and would pretend every day
she was going to work all a lie. She even
took cops.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Where they were trying to verify her job.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
Her job.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
All the way to Universal, they went, Yeah, there she is.
They went through the security gate, they got.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
With the cops in the car with her. She's continuing
to lie, spinning it out, spinning it out. They get
all the way to the building.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
They go to the door of the building to go
talk to her employer, and right as they go in,
she's like, oh, okay, you got me.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't have a job. I don't work here anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And for all this time, she's laid out on the
sofa having chips and pretzels and pizza, telling her parents
she's working. And now we know what else she was
lying about. She says that she's been looking for Kelly. Hey,
top mom, why don't you look about ten houses down
from the Anthony home where you were mooching off your
(20:34):
parents in that swampy area with trashing it. That's where
Kelly was double bagged and trash bags from your home.
She was acquitted. That said, that shocked the country into
realizing there's something very wrong when time goes by and
(20:56):
no one reports a child missing. I mean, Eric Hoffman,
you're investigating this case, Douglas Walker. You are intimately familiar
with the facts. Eric, five years, what do relatives have
to say about why they never raised a flag of alarm.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
I don't know why they didn't. They whatever reason they
didn't is strictly with them. I don't know, certainly. I
think it is reasonable to report that immediately. Again, I
think this four years has done nothing but hinder the investigation.
Speaker 7 (21:34):
And I do see some.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Similarities between this case and the case Anthony case, from
the facts and from the evidence.
Speaker 12 (21:44):
Now what are those similarities, Eric, I don't know that
I can go into all of the evidentiary facts that
we've gathered this far, but some of the similarities that
are publicly known are that we have a young child
who has not been seen for quite some time.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
There is some suspicion of around the custodial parent, that
being Dustin Manus, and some things that he said that
were easily proven to be lies. And then there were
some evidentiary facts after that that are somewhat similar.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Mystery swirls around this strange disappearance a missing Indiana boy,
Hayden Manus, last seen by his family over five years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, mystery swirls.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
All right, because the family just realizes he's missing.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And then a chance encounter.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
Early September twenty twenty four, more than a year after
Dustin's last text to a family member, two of Hayden's
great grandmothers run into each other at the grocery store
and get to talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Dustin and his son.
Speaker 13 (22:52):
One says Dustin told her DCS gave Dustin's mom full
custody in twenty twenty two, but the other had heard
nothing about that. After some discussion, the extremely concerned family
reaches out to both DCS and police asking for a
welfare check for Hayden.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Straight out to Eric Hoffin, veteran trial lawyer in the
prosecutor's office, tell me about that chance meeting.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
It's my understanding that the two grandmothers met up at
a grocery store by happenstance and started discussing Hayden, and
then at some point in time after that, on September
fifth of twenty twenty four, is when the welfare check
was called in with the police department, and that is
the first time we know that there's any issue with
(23:38):
Hayden in terms of him being missing or any foul play.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
So they just happened to see each other at the
grocery store.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I know, in my hometown, which actually I live far
out of the town in rural bib County, you would
actually run into everybody at the PEGAI big league, Okay,
the grocery store, So I get it. They run into
each other and one tells the other that Dustin's mother,
the bio mom.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Now has custody.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Isn't it true, Eric Hoffman, that police run down the
bio dad and Hayden's not there, and he tells officers
the very same story that Hayden has been moved in
place with his bio mom.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So we get it from the horse's mouth, right, Eric.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
Yes. In fact, on the fifth, the very same day
that the welfare check call comes in, police officers go
to the last known address of Dustin Manus, and that
very same day they were able to find Dustin and
they interviewed him at the police station. They took him
to the Sheriff's apartment and reinterviewed him, and he had
a very specific place where he says Hayden was and
(24:52):
how he got there. He said that DCS and the
Sheriff's department removed Hayden from him several years ago and
gave him Hayden, that is, to his birth mother. And
obviously within a day or two that was easily proved false.
(25:12):
He was not telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Now you heard Eric Hoffman describe, and he knows this
case better than any of us. These photos from Hayden
Manis's family to news outlets that the great grandma the
family meet at the grocery. They state that the bio
(25:34):
dad says, bio mom has her, I don't has him.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I don't have him.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
The dad's tracked down. He says the same thing. But
Eric tells us that is not true.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
That the bio dad is lying.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
And it brings to mind another case that hit national headlines,
the case of Harmony Montgomery.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Both the bio parents are like this, listen.
Speaker 14 (26:04):
Last time she was enrolled in any type of school.
From my understanding is you have to be confirmed as
down in Massachusetts but again she's seven right now, so
twenty nineteen, five years old, probably right around that kindergarten timeframe. Again,
we've spoken with family members and will continue to do so.
I know I keep coming back to that, and that's
(26:26):
a fair question, right, did we speak to mom? Did
we speak to dad? Did we speak to this we're
speaking to is any and all family members that come
to our attention and ones that we are seeking out
as well.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That is a Manchester, New Hampshire Police Chief Alan Aldenburg
desperately interviewing bio mom, bio dad, extended family. The last
time anybody got a good siding of Harmony Montgomery. Her
uncle saw her father assault her, attack her, giving her
a black eye, making her clean the bathroom with her toothbrush.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Listen to this.
Speaker 15 (27:05):
Harmony Montgomery is missing for two years before anyone begins
to look for her. The search for five year old
Harmony leads to the family of Adam Montgomery, Harmony's father
telling police they called social services several times worried about Harmony,
but nobody would help police track down Adam Montgomery, and
he tells police Harmony's mother in Florida has Harmony. Police
(27:29):
explain she is the one who called for help finding
her daughter.
Speaker 14 (27:33):
More than two years has passed as harmony since Harmony
was last seen. That puts us at a disadvantage and
the public public's help is greatly needed.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Bryan Vzgibbons, USPA nationwide security.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Look at this.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
These are all cases of children that go missing and
months years past before anyone notices how many children are
out there missing, likely dead right now they no one
realize they're missing.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
It's a great point, Nancy, and especially when you're dealing
with folks in active addiction. Unwinding timelines, unwinding locations from
witness statements of anybody who might have been around Dustin
Manus around the time that Hayden was last seen is
going to become more and more complex for investigators.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Four year old Hayden Manus has been missing five years?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Is there any chance in finding him?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
There has been a recent sighting of him which many
believe is credible, which gives me hope.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Then there is the reunification process.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Did you hear the grandfather or Hayden's grandfather saying I didn't.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Want him to be given back to his bio dad
my son. I didn't want that and they did it anyway,
Listen to this would be.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Adoptive mom who fostered a beautiful little girl for years
before she was snatched away and given back any reunification
with the mother the bio mom.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Listen.
Speaker 16 (29:13):
A family friend contacted us and said, Hey, I know
of a foster child that is most likely going to
be put into adoption. Is this something that you're interested
in doing? And my husband and I looked at each
other across the couch and we just were like, Yeah,
let's do it. And we weren't sure at first if
it was going to be a long term situation or
a short term, but as the years went by, we
(29:34):
were like, Wow, this is actually happening, Like we're going
to get to adopt her, and we love the time
that we had with Oakley.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
That's Jamie jo Hiles, Oakley's foster mom, and she had
her hopes, her and her husband, they both had their
hopes up that they were really going to be the
forever home.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
For maybe Oakley.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And just like in Hayden's case bio mom, in this case,
bio dad has a drug problem.
Speaker 16 (30:04):
Mom had gone to the rehab classes that she was
ordered to go to and shortly after she went to
those rehab classes, she became pregnant and stayed clean. And
I don't know if it's because she had stayed clean
for so long or what kind of law happens, but
she was able to get Oakley and her siblings back well.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Speaking with Jamie Joe, she choked up. From here, I
could see you swallow at that last sentence.
Speaker 16 (30:36):
Why it never gets easier to talk about this because
my husband and I grieved the loss of Oakley, and
then to find out that she was missing.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It still hurts our hearts.
Speaker 16 (30:48):
And it doesn't make sense to us, and it never
will make sense to us why we didn't get to
have her with us permanently.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
In fact, Jamie Joe and her husband were so convinced
they were getting Oakley they actually agreed to take Oakley's
new little baby sibling as well. They were going to
have a whole family, a house.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Full of children.
Speaker 16 (31:12):
In the spring. We were asked by our social worker,
Angela Freese, if we would be interested in taking the
new baby when it was born, and my husband and
I were like, yes, we would be interested in taking
Oakley's younger sibling. And then the next month, at the
next Health and Safety visit. We were told never mind,
(31:33):
like that's not an option anymore. And then it slowly
kind of came to that, oh, she's going to be returned.
And when my husband and I went to fight it
with the Grace Harbor Department of Children, News and Families,
we were told, she's not your daughter.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
You need to let go of this.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Oakley is dead at the hands in the care of
her by a mom. You know, I wonder Eric Hoffman,
your thoughts on reunification. Why did they even call it that.
That's such a euphemism like domestic violence and make it
(32:10):
sound so cozy domestic violence. I've had so much domestic
violence translation homicides of women and children that it's enough
to just make you gag. Same thing here, reunification. It
sounds so good, it's bs I'm against reunification. Why do
(32:32):
we keep putting the desires of two deadbeat parents over
the wellbeing of the child.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Look at Hayden, he's gone.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
He could be dead because of reunification. The grandfather wanted him,
Papa wanted him, but oh hl n O, we couldn't
do that, and now he could be dead.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
I agree with you, Nancy. I think I can speak
for most of the prosecutors, if not all, the prosecutors
in the state of Indiana, that reunification, that particular word
is nauseating. It is particularly nauseating in this case. From
what I know of it. I do not think that
the Department of Child Services should have ever given Hayden
(33:14):
back to Dustin Manus. Hayden should have stayed with his grandfather,
Gary Manus, and we would be in totally different place today.
I can't speak for DCS. I don't know why they
would have given him back. But again, that word reunification
is nauseating.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 17 (33:43):
Social media is littered with rumors and theories on what
happened to Hayden's some extremely disturbing. One post accuses Manus
and his ex girlfriend in great detail, of abusing Hayden
and killing the boy when his condition deteriorated to a
point of requiring intense medical attention. The now deleted posts
claims the couple then buried Hayden's body in their backyard
to decompose for six months before disposing of the remains
(34:07):
in a gas station dumpster.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
To Eric Hoffman, joining us veteran trial lawyer prosecutor forty
six Judicial Circuit.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Indiana on this case. What about these rumors?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I know you cannot comment on specific facts, but let
me ask you this, are those rumors that Hayden was
abused and killed? Are they grounded in any shred of
credible evidence? Was there a sighting? Is there some tangible
evidence that that's true.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
We have heard those rumors from multiple sources. We are
considering them as a part of the investigation as potentially
being true in terms of physical evidence or something. To
corroborate these rumors or these stories or these allegations, it's
almost impossible now, four years later, or to define that
coroboration that a prosecutor would need to go into court with.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Have you brought out cadaverdogs that gas station dumpster? You did?
Speaker 6 (35:10):
Yes, We've used cadaver dogs at multiple locations in Delaware County.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Any hits no been powers joining us better on try
a lawyer at legalpowers dot com. What are your thoughts
on reunification with bioparents.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
That have already lost their child for very good reason.
Speaker 10 (35:32):
I don't think that the child should just be given
back without any type of oversight or any type of
check in or any type.
Speaker 7 (35:38):
Of follow up.
Speaker 10 (35:38):
I mean, they clearly have exhibited that they're not able
to care for themselves, much less a child. And when
you overlay a drug addiction into that definitely needs to
be some oversight. And so it does sound like in
this situation, DCS failed, Hayden failed. Hayden's family not requiring
his father to continue to show progress, to continue to
(35:59):
show some Instead, they just gave him back. And even worse,
they give him back during COVID lockdowns.
Speaker 7 (36:05):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
When they first took Hayden away from the dad, they
found Hayden in a motel room littered with heroin, and
yet they gave him back.
Speaker 10 (36:18):
Yeah, there's no reason that he gets.
Speaker 14 (36:20):
A befit of the doubt.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I mean, have you ever heard when you don't know
a horse, look at his track record.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
If you don't know what the Biodad's going to do,
look at what he's already done.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Eric Hoffman, have you been in touch with the bio
Dad's girlfriend and if so, could she elucidate this at all?
Speaker 6 (36:42):
The Sheriff's Department investigators have been in touch with bio
Dad's girlfriend. She gave multiple interviews with Sheriff's detectives, some
of which contained conflicting information, and she has spoken with
them on multiple occasions.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Well, did she shed in light off where where Hayden
could be?
Speaker 6 (37:02):
She did, but again what she did tell the Sheriff's
department was somewhat contradictory or inconsistent.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Well, you know what, it sounds like a bunch of
wet cats and a barrel.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You've got drug addled bio dad. You've got relatives that
haven't seen the child in five years but don't realize
he's missing.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
And by the way, speaking of.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
The relatives, we invited the grandparents on to make a
heartfelt plea to you about finding Hayden, and they told
us that they didn't think we crime stories would cover
the case the way they wanted it covered. How many
(37:47):
ways are there to cover a missing child case?
Speaker 13 (37:52):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
That said Douglas Walker. Where does the case stand now?
Speaker 7 (38:00):
Dustin Manus was questioned in September gave investigators an account
of the child being returned to its birth mother that
didn't happen. In November, he was stopped for a traffic offense.
The officer that night noted that he appeared to be
(38:23):
extremely nervous to the point of being afraid, he wrote
in a report, and Dustin told him that he was
frightened because he had recently been questioned about the disappearance
of his son. They ultimately found heroin and meth in
his possession. He was arrested and charged with low grade
(38:48):
felony drug possession charges. Was in jail under a three
thousand dollars bond. A few weeks later, a family member
came forward with that money. Was released from the Delaware
County jail. Four days after that, he fatally overdosed. Spoke
to the coroner yesterday. He said he died of an
(39:10):
acute mixed drug intoxication. So any possibility of further exploring
the situation with Dustin Manus is not going to happen.
He's gone, And a person close to the case yesterday
told me he felt like they were chasing ghosts and
(39:30):
trying to get this salt.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
It's so trite to say we're not giving up, but
we're not. If you know or think you know anything
about this baby boy Hayden Dial seven six ' five
seven four seven seven eight eight five.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
Speaker 14 (40:01):
People to Gi
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A little boy just four vanishes five years ago without
family realizing he's gone. Tonight, Where's Hayden? I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Where is four year old Hayden man Is from Indiana?
The young child reportedly last seen at a family Christmas
gathering in twenty nineteen. He's not been seen since.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Mystery swirling around a little boy just four years.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Old at the time he was last seen live.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
How is it that family doesn't realize he's missing for
five years? Police now play catch up in a missing
child case. Let it sink in. Four year old Hayden
was last seen at a Christmas gathering five years ago.
(01:09):
Any and all leeds are probably cold by now. How
can we find Hayden? Let's see pictures of Hayden right now?
This is all coming out of Munsey, Indiana. This four
year old little boy, last scene five years ago. Hayden
(01:29):
Ian Lee Manus joining me an all star panel to
make sense of what we are hearing tonight.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
That is from the Awareness Ink on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Everybody, if you want to find out more about Hayden
and how you can help find him. Is Hayden Mannus,
age four, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
First of all, take a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Recent reports of a missing child have many monthsy Indiana
residents asking how does a little boy disappear without anyone realizing?
For nearly five years, Hayden Manus, now just a few
months from his tenth birthday, was last seen in early
twenty twenty. The little boy believed to be living with
his father, Dustin Manus, but a chance run in between
(02:12):
two relatives reveals Mannus has told several conflicting stories about
Hayden's whereabouts.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Joining me in All Star Palell, But first I want
to go to Brian Fitzgibbons is joining us. He is
the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security. He leads
a team of highly trained investigator specializing and finding missing
people at Uspasecurity dot Com. Brian in a nutshell, This
(02:41):
trail is so cold, but Crime Stories is not giving up.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
On trying to find out where is Hayden?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Why does every hour, the hour, the minutes actually matter?
And now we're looking at five years before the family
realizes he's it is saying, I mean.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
So often, Nancy, we talk about forty eight hours being
a long time in a missing child case. In this case,
we're dealing with five years. So we're constructing a new
timeline now as this show airs and gets national attention,
a new timeline is going to begin of when people
connected to this case begin talking about Hayden again.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Joining me in addition to Brian fitz Gibbons, an incredible
panel joining us tonight special guest Eric Hoffman. He is
currently a prosecuting attorney in the forty six Judicial Circuit
Indiana and the Delaware County Prosecutor's Office. He has been
investigating this case for so long, and because you're in
(03:43):
the middle of an ongoing investigation, I understand that your
hands are somewhat tied and everything you can say, But
let me ask you a few general questions, Eric Hoffman,
as fitz Gibbons just told us, literally, it's hard to
understand unless you're in the middle of it. Every minute
counts when a child goes missing. Just think about if
the child's in a car, for instance.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Sixty mph, sixty.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Miles an hour, that child is getting further and further
and further away by the minute.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Have you ever seen a case before.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
This one where the family didn't realize the child was
missing for five years.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
No, No, I haven't, Nancy, And I think, as you said,
each passing minute, particularly four years, makes the case and
the investigation exponentially.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
If you know or think you know anything about the
disappearance of Hayden, please dial Delaware County Sheriff's Department seven
sixty five seven four seven seven eight eight five. Now
hold on, let's back it up just a moment. Let's
back it up.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Joining me right now, Crime and Justice reporter from.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
The Star Press, Douglas Walker, joining us out of Muncy. Douglas,
thank you for being with us. This case has been
consuming you.
Speaker 7 (05:05):
Why just see very odd circumstances that there would be
such an incredible delay in making police aware of the
fact that this child is missing. It just appears to
baffle people as to how that could even possibly.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Happen, you know, Douglas. By the way, guys, you're seeing
a little graduation photo.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It must have been from pre K pre pre pre
K because he went missing at age four. That is
from Hayden Manus's family to news outlets, Douglas, I tend
to as a crime victim project experiences that I had
or crime victims that I represented, practicing law for thirteen years,
(05:52):
most of it in intercity Atlanta, prosecuting felonies. But let
me tell you, Douglas, not long after the twins were born,
they were about nineteen months they just started walking, okay,
and we were in one of those giant superstores babies
or us, I think it was. And some mom had,
(06:12):
you know, guilted me out at the community pool because
she made her own organic sunscreen. So I was trying
to find organic sun tanlation, right, and I had the
twins with me. I was alone with them, and I
was on the very bottom shelf and it went from
floor all the way to the ceiling practically. And I
stood up and I said, well, twins, I don't see
(06:34):
anything like that here. And there was Lucy, my little girl,
and no John David. I looked around for him. I
couldn't find him.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I picked Lucy up like a football and started running.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I can still hear my tennis shoes on that lineolium
floor and screaming, locked the doors, my baby is missing,
screaming help me.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I didn't wait five years to say John David's missing.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I found him. He was playing a game, so I
didn't fuss at him. I didn't want to traumatize him.
I was traumatized.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But five years when did you first learn about this case? Douglas?
Speaker 7 (07:15):
The family of the missing boy initially took it to
an Indianapolis television station. It's my understanding that perhaps sheriff's
deputies would have preferred waiting to make things public, but
that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
The wait who wanted to wait to make it public?
Speaker 7 (07:34):
The Sheriff's department, which is the primary investigator here, had
not made an announcement concerning this. They found out that
the boy was missing in September and we're investigating, and
apparently thought it would be in their best interests to
not make an announcement, as they attempted to talk to
people somewhat quietly because so much time had passed. So
(07:58):
at any rate, I.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Think, I say, that is against everything that I know
about finding missing people.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I don't understand that at all.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Eric Hoffman, hypothetically speaking, why would l E law enforcement
want to wait to make public a missing child?
Speaker 6 (08:16):
I think the investigation had just begun. It was September
fifth of twenty twenty four. The Sheriff's department brought me
in on the case and we discussed it and interviews
were ongoing. I think the information was coming in fast
at that point. Certain things had to be checked, Certain
people's credibility had to be coroborated before we were ready
(08:39):
to go public and say this child is missing.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Okay, Eric Hoffman, I know that there must be something
you're not able to disclose, because when a child is
missing and there's a chance to recover the child, that
is a pr believe to try to find the child. Now,
that's according to my experience and my great mentor, Mark Class,
(09:06):
who's daughter Pauli went missing, and he actually school's parents
about what to do if their child goes missing, and
the number one thing is get it out on the media.
But you're telling me, Ellie, law enforcement wanted to wigh
witnesses credibility.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I'm trying to read between the lines what that could.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Possibly mean about not learning everyone that the child was missing.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I know your record.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
You have an incredible estellar record, so I know you
have a reason for going along with this. Can you
share that reason or is it confidential?
Speaker 6 (09:42):
I can't get into too much of the specifics, but
I think I would absolutely agree with you. Four years ago.
That would be the first thing that we'd want to
do is get Hayden's picture on the TV and get
his story out there so people could call in. But
again we're talking about a four year delay before law
enforcement knows anything about it. You have to consider in
(10:06):
this investigation, there's really two outcomes, or there's really two
possibilities at this point. Is Hayden alive? Is Hayden dead?
And so in investigating those two different possibilities, you know
the investigation can grow those ways.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Two Douglas Walker joining US Crime and Justice report of
the Star Press. Douglas, I just don't understand how the
extended family, such as grandparents, aunts and uncles didn't notice. Hey,
we haven't seen him, we haven't seen a picture of him.
He's not on a Christmas car, he's not at a
(10:55):
little preschool graduation.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
We've got nothing. What they didn't notice.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
They have described an estrangement with the boy's father, Dustin Manus,
describing various situations where they invited him to bring Hayden
to their homes at family gatherings, holiday gatherings, things of
this nature, and that he would indicate sure that will happen,
(11:21):
and then they just simply didn't show up, and as such,
the actual family members haven't seen him for five years.
I was told that investigators have determined someone being aware
of Hayden's presence as recently as the fall of twenty twenty,
so four and a half years of nothing.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
We are hearing from Douglas Walker from the Star Press.
There may have been a siding as recently as fall
twenty twenty. That makes the time period less right the
time he's been missing, and you can extrapolate from that
that even though he may not be with his bioppearents
that he is alive somewhere. Now, this is my understanding.
(12:09):
Let me go straight out to doctor Cheryl Eric.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
She is a.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Licensed clinical forensic psychologist specializing in trauma recovery. You can
find her at askdoctor Cheryl dot com.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Doctor Eric, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It's my understanding, and everybody on the panel correct me
if I've got this wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
That the son.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Had a falling out with his father, Hayden's grandfather. Okay,
they had a falling out. Of course, the son stops
out with Hayden, and that that is why the family
kind of chalked it off that the son's not bringing
Hayden around.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
That's why they're not seeing him.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You know, when families split and they have a problem,
there are no more happy Thanksgivings and Christmases together, and
very often that's the only time extended family sees the child,
the grandchild.
Speaker 8 (13:01):
That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (13:02):
And when we unpack this estrangement, I think we have
to think about it with the father's addiction in mind,
because one of the things we know when people have
active addictions to things like meth, cocaine, heroine, these are
things that can really interfere with somebody being able to
(13:23):
be a safe parent. But one of the other things
we see is incredible denial, denial that there's a problem.
A lot of times the family wants to believe the
best of the person who has the active addiction. And
some of what we're hearing is that the estrangement had
something to do with him feeling like they were judging
him about his addiction. They wanted to take Hayden away,
(13:47):
but the family knew about the addition problems that Dustin
was having. And what you want, especially when someone has
had these problems, you want supervision. You want to know,
not just that they did the minim in terms of
probation or being able to get a child back, but
you want to know are they going to meetings?
Speaker 8 (14:07):
Can you see them? I mean, most single parents, even
without this really welcome extended loving, extended family health. It's
a lot to have a little kid as a single parent,
and one would really expect that if he were really
doing what he said he was doing, he would want
(14:27):
to have them around, even if there was a phone
me out.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Four year old Hayden Manus is critically missing his family,
desperate for answers. Dad says CPS returned Hayden to his moms,
but the story is not adding up.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Where is Hayden?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Why did it take relatives five years to realize he's missing?
And when was the last time I can verify that
he was seeing Listen?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
The father and son frequently visit family over the first
year after Dustin regains custody, but after a fight with
his dad, family members see less and less of Dustin
and Hayden. The last time for the family's gift exchange
on Christmas Eve twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
When's the last time you saw Hayden? Christmas Eve? Twenty
nineteen at our family gathering. He was getting presents. He
was excited. That was the last time.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
That is from WTHR thirteen and the photos you were
seeing were provided to the Independent by Gary mannis straight
out to Eric Hoffman, joining US Prosecuting Attorney forty six
Judicial Circuit, Indiana, who has been investigating this case for
months after he, like us, find out Hayden's been missing
(15:44):
for five years? When can we start our timeline, Eric,
when do you believe is the last credible sighting of
this little boy?
Speaker 6 (15:56):
I don't think we can pinpoint it to a particular date.
I think the credible information we have would have been
sometime between Christmas of twenty nineteen and early twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Joining me now being powers veteran trial lawyer, and you
can find him at legalpowers dot com. Ben, thank you
for being with us. You know, in some jurisdictions, I
know in Alabama is called Achilles law. In some jurisdictions,
it's actually a crime not to immediately report your child missing.
(16:32):
Did you know that that trend is catching fire across
the nation. It's becoming a statute in the black and
white letter of the law.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Ben, Yeah, that is becoming a more common law across
the nation to have reporting requirements for missing children for
the obvious reasons. You know, time is of the essence
when we're dealing with missing children, and the more time
it goes on, the harder it gets to find the
right answers, find the conclusions that you're new and so
those reporting requirements are becoming a popular trend nationally.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And the seminal case that shocked our country in the
case of two year old Kelly Anthony who goes missing
near Orlando, Florida, we really don't know how long taught
mom Casey Anthony waited to report Kelly missing.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Listen, Oh my daughter, baboo.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I need to find her.
Speaker 11 (17:28):
Your daughter admitted that the baby is later, maybe kind
of took her a month ago. Is that my daughter's
been looking for I told you my daughter was missing
four months. I just found her today that I can't
find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me she's been
trying to find for her herself. There's something wrong. I
saw my daughter's cars today and it's not a dead daughter.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Clo.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, what is the three year old's name?
Speaker 11 (17:51):
Kelly c A Y L E. E.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Anthony just a few months short of being three. Kelly missing.
Now listen to top mom Casey Anthony's explanation.
Speaker 11 (18:06):
You last saw her a month ago, thirty one days
from thirty one days?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Who have her? Do you a name?
Speaker 11 (18:16):
Her name is Janeva Fernando's jo Wallis.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Who is that?
Speaker 11 (18:20):
Maybe she has been my nanny for bout a year
and ago, for almost two years? Why why are you
calling now?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Why didn't you call it thirty one days ago?
Speaker 11 (18:29):
I've been looking for her and have gone through other
resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I've been looking for her at and have gone through
other resources to try to find her, which is stupid.
Did you hear that?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Did you hear that obvious break in the sentence where
taught mom Casey Anthony is trying to think up what
she could possibly say for waiting a month to report
her child missing. Oh, that's a lie. There is no
Zannaia Fernandez Gonzalez babysitter. There is no babysitter, There is
no nanny. In fact, her whole life was a lie.
(19:10):
She would sit on a parent's sofa every day and
a chips while they paid for everything for Kelly took
care of Kelley, changed Kelly's die piece, bought her clothes,
bought her food.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Housed her, loved her.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
She even had a fake uniform from Universal Studios and
a little name tag right, and would pretend every day
she was going to work all a lie. She even
took cops.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Where they were trying to verify her job.
Speaker 7 (19:40):
Her job.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
All the way to Universal, they went, Yeah, there she is.
They went through the security gate, they got.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
With the cops in the car with her. She's continuing
to lie, spinning it out, spinning it out. They get
all the way to the building.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
They go to the door of the building to go
talk to her employer, and right as they go in,
she's like, oh, okay, you got me.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
I don't have a job. I don't work here anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And for all this time, she's laid out on the
sofa having chips and pretzels and pizza, telling her parents
she's working. And now we know what else she was
lying about. She says that she's been looking for Kelly. Hey,
top mom, why don't you look about ten houses down
from the Anthony home where you were mooching off your
(20:34):
parents in that swampy area with trashing it. That's where
Kelly was double bagged and trash bags from your home.
She was acquitted. That said, that shocked the country into
realizing there's something very wrong when time goes by and
(20:56):
no one reports a child missing. I mean, Eric Hoffman,
you're investigating this case, Douglas Walker. You are intimately familiar
with the facts. Eric, five years, what do relatives have
to say about why they never raised a flag of alarm.
Speaker 6 (21:17):
I don't know why they didn't. They whatever reason they
didn't is strictly with them. I don't know, certainly. I
think it is reasonable to report that immediately. Again, I
think this four years has done nothing but hinder the investigation.
Speaker 7 (21:34):
And I do see some.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
Similarities between this case and the case Anthony case, from
the facts and from the evidence.
Speaker 12 (21:44):
Now what are those similarities, Eric, I don't know that
I can go into all of the evidentiary facts that
we've gathered this far, but some of the similarities that
are publicly known are that we have a young child
who has not been seen for quite some time.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
There is some suspicion of around the custodial parent, that
being Dustin Manus, and some things that he said that
were easily proven to be lies. And then there were
some evidentiary facts after that that are somewhat similar.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Mystery swirls around this strange disappearance a missing Indiana boy,
Hayden Manus, last seen by his family over five years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, mystery swirls.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
All right, because the family just realizes he's missing.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And then a chance encounter.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
Early September twenty twenty four, more than a year after
Dustin's last text to a family member, two of Hayden's
great grandmothers run into each other at the grocery store
and get to talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Dustin and his son.
Speaker 13 (22:52):
One says Dustin told her DCS gave Dustin's mom full
custody in twenty twenty two, but the other had heard
nothing about that. After some discussion, the extremely concerned family
reaches out to both DCS and police asking for a
welfare check for Hayden.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Straight out to Eric Hoffin, veteran trial lawyer in the
prosecutor's office, tell me about that chance meeting.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
It's my understanding that the two grandmothers met up at
a grocery store by happenstance and started discussing Hayden, and
then at some point in time after that, on September
fifth of twenty twenty four, is when the welfare check
was called in with the police department, and that is
the first time we know that there's any issue with
(23:38):
Hayden in terms of him being missing or any foul play.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
So they just happened to see each other at the
grocery store.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
I know, in my hometown, which actually I live far
out of the town in rural bib County, you would
actually run into everybody at the PEGAI big league, Okay,
the grocery store, So I get it. They run into
each other and one tells the other that Dustin's mother,
the bio mom.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Now has custody.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Isn't it true, Eric Hoffman, that police run down the
bio dad and Hayden's not there, and he tells officers
the very same story that Hayden has been moved in
place with his bio mom.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
So we get it from the horse's mouth, right, Eric.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
Yes. In fact, on the fifth, the very same day
that the welfare check call comes in, police officers go
to the last known address of Dustin Manus, and that
very same day they were able to find Dustin and
they interviewed him at the police station. They took him
to the Sheriff's apartment and reinterviewed him, and he had
a very specific place where he says Hayden was and
(24:52):
how he got there. He said that DCS and the
Sheriff's department removed Hayden from him several years ago and
gave him Hayden, that is, to his birth mother. And
obviously within a day or two that was easily proved false.
(25:12):
He was not telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Now you heard Eric Hoffman describe, and he knows this
case better than any of us. These photos from Hayden
Manis's family to news outlets that the great grandma the
family meet at the grocery. They state that the bio
(25:34):
dad says, bio mom has her, I don't has him.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I don't have him.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
The dad's tracked down. He says the same thing. But
Eric tells us that is not true.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
That the bio dad is lying.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
And it brings to mind another case that hit national headlines,
the case of Harmony Montgomery.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Both the bio parents are like this, listen.
Speaker 14 (26:04):
Last time she was enrolled in any type of school.
From my understanding is you have to be confirmed as
down in Massachusetts but again she's seven right now, so
twenty nineteen, five years old, probably right around that kindergarten timeframe. Again,
we've spoken with family members and will continue to do so.
I know I keep coming back to that, and that's
(26:26):
a fair question, right, did we speak to mom? Did
we speak to dad? Did we speak to this we're
speaking to is any and all family members that come
to our attention and ones that we are seeking out
as well.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That is a Manchester, New Hampshire Police Chief Alan Aldenburg
desperately interviewing bio mom, bio dad, extended family. The last
time anybody got a good siding of Harmony Montgomery. Her
uncle saw her father assault her, attack her, giving her
a black eye, making her clean the bathroom with her toothbrush.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Listen to this.
Speaker 15 (27:05):
Harmony Montgomery is missing for two years before anyone begins
to look for her. The search for five year old
Harmony leads to the family of Adam Montgomery, Harmony's father
telling police they called social services several times worried about Harmony,
but nobody would help police track down Adam Montgomery, and
he tells police Harmony's mother in Florida has Harmony. Police
(27:29):
explain she is the one who called for help finding
her daughter.
Speaker 14 (27:33):
More than two years has passed as harmony since Harmony
was last seen. That puts us at a disadvantage and
the public public's help is greatly needed.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Bryan Vzgibbons, USPA nationwide security.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Look at this.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
These are all cases of children that go missing and
months years past before anyone notices how many children are
out there missing, likely dead right now they no one
realize they're missing.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
It's a great point, Nancy, and especially when you're dealing
with folks in active addiction. Unwinding timelines, unwinding locations from
witness statements of anybody who might have been around Dustin
Manus around the time that Hayden was last seen is
going to become more and more complex for investigators.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Four year old Hayden Manus has been missing five years?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Is there any chance in finding him?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
There has been a recent sighting of him which many
believe is credible, which gives me hope.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Then there is the reunification process.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Did you hear the grandfather or Hayden's grandfather saying I didn't.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Want him to be given back to his bio dad
my son. I didn't want that and they did it anyway,
Listen to this would be.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Adoptive mom who fostered a beautiful little girl for years
before she was snatched away and given back any reunification
with the mother the bio mom.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Listen.
Speaker 16 (29:13):
A family friend contacted us and said, Hey, I know
of a foster child that is most likely going to
be put into adoption. Is this something that you're interested
in doing? And my husband and I looked at each
other across the couch and we just were like, Yeah,
let's do it. And we weren't sure at first if
it was going to be a long term situation or
a short term, but as the years went by, we
(29:34):
were like, Wow, this is actually happening, Like we're going
to get to adopt her, and we love the time
that we had with Oakley.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
That's Jamie jo Hiles, Oakley's foster mom, and she had
her hopes, her and her husband, they both had their
hopes up that they were really going to be the
forever home.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
For maybe Oakley.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And just like in Hayden's case bio mom, in this case,
bio dad has a drug problem.
Speaker 16 (30:04):
Mom had gone to the rehab classes that she was
ordered to go to and shortly after she went to
those rehab classes, she became pregnant and stayed clean. And
I don't know if it's because she had stayed clean
for so long or what kind of law happens, but
she was able to get Oakley and her siblings back well.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Speaking with Jamie Joe, she choked up. From here, I
could see you swallow at that last sentence.
Speaker 16 (30:36):
Why it never gets easier to talk about this because
my husband and I grieved the loss of Oakley, and
then to find out that she was missing.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
It still hurts our hearts.
Speaker 16 (30:48):
And it doesn't make sense to us, and it never
will make sense to us why we didn't get to
have her with us permanently.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
In fact, Jamie Joe and her husband were so convinced
they were getting Oakley they actually agreed to take Oakley's
new little baby sibling as well. They were going to
have a whole family, a house.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Full of children.
Speaker 16 (31:12):
In the spring. We were asked by our social worker,
Angela Freese, if we would be interested in taking the
new baby when it was born, and my husband and
I were like, yes, we would be interested in taking
Oakley's younger sibling. And then the next month, at the
next Health and Safety visit. We were told never mind,
(31:33):
like that's not an option anymore. And then it slowly
kind of came to that, oh, she's going to be returned.
And when my husband and I went to fight it
with the Grace Harbor Department of Children, News and Families,
we were told, she's not your daughter.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
You need to let go of this.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Oakley is dead at the hands in the care of
her by a mom. You know, I wonder Eric Hoffman,
your thoughts on reunification. Why did they even call it that.
That's such a euphemism like domestic violence and make it
(32:10):
sound so cozy domestic violence. I've had so much domestic
violence translation homicides of women and children that it's enough
to just make you gag. Same thing here, reunification. It
sounds so good, it's bs I'm against reunification. Why do
(32:32):
we keep putting the desires of two deadbeat parents over
the wellbeing of the child.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Look at Hayden, he's gone.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
He could be dead because of reunification. The grandfather wanted him,
Papa wanted him, but oh hl n O, we couldn't
do that, and now he could be dead.
Speaker 6 (32:53):
I agree with you, Nancy. I think I can speak
for most of the prosecutors, if not all, the prosecutors
in the state of Indiana, that reunification, that particular word
is nauseating. It is particularly nauseating in this case. From
what I know of it. I do not think that
the Department of Child Services should have ever given Hayden
(33:14):
back to Dustin Manus. Hayden should have stayed with his grandfather,
Gary Manus, and we would be in totally different place today.
I can't speak for DCS. I don't know why they
would have given him back. But again, that word reunification
is nauseating.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 17 (33:43):
Social media is littered with rumors and theories on what
happened to Hayden's some extremely disturbing. One post accuses Manus
and his ex girlfriend in great detail, of abusing Hayden
and killing the boy when his condition deteriorated to a
point of requiring intense medical attention. The now deleted posts
claims the couple then buried Hayden's body in their backyard
to decompose for six months before disposing of the remains
(34:07):
in a gas station dumpster.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
To Eric Hoffman, joining us veteran trial lawyer prosecutor forty
six Judicial Circuit.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Indiana on this case. What about these rumors?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I know you cannot comment on specific facts, but let
me ask you this, are those rumors that Hayden was
abused and killed? Are they grounded in any shred of
credible evidence? Was there a sighting? Is there some tangible
evidence that that's true.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
We have heard those rumors from multiple sources. We are
considering them as a part of the investigation as potentially
being true in terms of physical evidence or something. To
corroborate these rumors or these stories or these allegations, it's
almost impossible now, four years later, or to define that
coroboration that a prosecutor would need to go into court with.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Have you brought out cadaverdogs that gas station dumpster? You did?
Speaker 6 (35:10):
Yes, We've used cadaver dogs at multiple locations in Delaware County.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Any hits no been powers joining us better on try
a lawyer at legalpowers dot com. What are your thoughts
on reunification with bioparents.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
That have already lost their child for very good reason.
Speaker 10 (35:32):
I don't think that the child should just be given
back without any type of oversight or any type of
check in or any type.
Speaker 7 (35:38):
Of follow up.
Speaker 10 (35:38):
I mean, they clearly have exhibited that they're not able
to care for themselves, much less a child. And when
you overlay a drug addiction into that definitely needs to
be some oversight. And so it does sound like in
this situation, DCS failed, Hayden failed. Hayden's family not requiring
his father to continue to show progress, to continue to
(35:59):
show some Instead, they just gave him back. And even worse,
they give him back during COVID lockdowns.
Speaker 7 (36:05):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
When they first took Hayden away from the dad, they
found Hayden in a motel room littered with heroin, and
yet they gave him back.
Speaker 10 (36:18):
Yeah, there's no reason that he gets.
Speaker 14 (36:20):
A befit of the doubt.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I mean, have you ever heard when you don't know
a horse, look at his track record.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
If you don't know what the Biodad's going to do,
look at what he's already done.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Eric Hoffman, have you been in touch with the bio
Dad's girlfriend and if so, could she elucidate this at all?
Speaker 6 (36:42):
The Sheriff's Department investigators have been in touch with bio
Dad's girlfriend. She gave multiple interviews with Sheriff's detectives, some
of which contained conflicting information, and she has spoken with
them on multiple occasions.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Well, did she shed in light off where where Hayden
could be?
Speaker 6 (37:02):
She did, but again what she did tell the Sheriff's
department was somewhat contradictory or inconsistent.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Well, you know what, it sounds like a bunch of
wet cats and a barrel.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You've got drug addled bio dad. You've got relatives that
haven't seen the child in five years but don't realize
he's missing.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
And by the way, speaking of.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
The relatives, we invited the grandparents on to make a
heartfelt plea to you about finding Hayden, and they told
us that they didn't think we crime stories would cover
the case the way they wanted it covered. How many
(37:47):
ways are there to cover a missing child case?
Speaker 13 (37:52):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (37:53):
That said Douglas Walker. Where does the case stand now?
Speaker 7 (38:00):
Dustin Manus was questioned in September gave investigators an account
of the child being returned to its birth mother that
didn't happen. In November, he was stopped for a traffic offense.
The officer that night noted that he appeared to be
(38:23):
extremely nervous to the point of being afraid, he wrote
in a report, and Dustin told him that he was
frightened because he had recently been questioned about the disappearance
of his son. They ultimately found heroin and meth in
his possession. He was arrested and charged with low grade
(38:48):
felony drug possession charges. Was in jail under a three
thousand dollars bond. A few weeks later, a family member
came forward with that money. Was released from the Delaware
County jail. Four days after that, he fatally overdosed. Spoke
to the coroner yesterday. He said he died of an
(39:10):
acute mixed drug intoxication. So any possibility of further exploring
the situation with Dustin Manus is not going to happen.
He's gone, And a person close to the case yesterday
told me he felt like they were chasing ghosts and
(39:30):
trying to get this salt.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
It's so trite to say we're not giving up, but
we're not. If you know or think you know anything
about this baby boy Hayden Dial seven six ' five
seven four seven seven eight eight five.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
Speaker 14 (40:01):
People to Gi
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.