July 15, 2024 • 39 mins
Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland Oregon is having their annual science fair so the school is opened about 30-minutes earlier than normal to allow parents and students to see the different projects created by the students. Arriving at Skyline just after 8 a.m., Kyron Horman and his stepmother, Terri Horman, go to his classroom and drop off his coat and backpack. Kyron then shows his stepmother his exhibit called "The Red-Eyed Tree Frog".
The two walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and see many other parents and children who have arrived early for the science fair. Terri Horman volunteers her time helping Kryon's teacher, Kristina Porter, and Porter sees Kyron and Terri Horman in Kyron's classroom that morning and another teacher sees Kyron and Terri in another classroom before the 8:45 a.m. school bell rings
As Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyron walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary. Kyron has already placed his bookbag and coat in Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair. Miss Porter starts her class as like every day, then reading group, then recess, then lunch. Around 3pm the children, tired from a busy day, get on the bus to go home.
Kyron Horman's father Kaine is at home getting his daughter ready to meet Kyron's bus after school. When Kyron doesn't get off the bus, Kaine Horman assumes there is confusion and Kyron is waiting to be picked up at school. The bus driver calls the school to see if Kyron is waiting to be picked up and finds out from the front office that Kyron has been marked absent, he hasn't been at school all day.
Investigators build a timeline quickly as they search for Kryon Horman. The 7-year-old arrives at school with his stepmother, Terri Horman, around 8 a.m. for the Science Fair. Kyron and his stepmother see teachers and other parents touring the classes, and Terri Horman says goodbye to Kyron in the hallway that goes toward his classroom at 8:45 a.m. near the south entrance of the school. Investigators say Kyron is seen by one more person around 9 a.m. but they will not identify the individual.
JOINING NANCY TODAY:
- Kaine Horman - Dad of Kyron Horman
- Jarrett Ferentino – Pennsylvania Attorney/Homicide Prosecutor; Facebook & Instagram: Jarrett Ferentino; Host: “True Crime Boss” Podcast
- Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” X: @TrialDoc”
- Dan Corsentino – Former Police Chief, Former Sheriff, Served on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board, Private Investigator
- Annette Newel – KXL News and Host, “Speaking Freely with Annette Newell,” Alpha Media USA (based in Portland, Oregon); X: @AnnetteNewell16
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, live rural Oregon. Stepmommy walks
her seven year old down the hall of his elementary school.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
He's never seen again.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Police now insisting step Mommy take a second polygraph, and
in a bizarre twist, we learned Stepmommy sending X rated
photos to a lover just days after Kiren disappears. Despite
all of this, still no sign of seven year old
Tyrone Horman. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
(00:40):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Which started as another school morning soon turn into a
nightmare for parents of seven year old Kyrone Horman, who
unexplicably vanished from a school science fair, a suspicious drive,
an alleged accomplice, and a murder for higher plot, Where
is little old Kyn Horman.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
This is a question that has gone through our minds
and hearts over and over and over. Joining me an
all star panel to make sense of what we are
learning about Kyn's disappearance.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
But first I.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Want to go to a very special guest. Kywen's father
is joining us, Cain Horman Kane. Thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Hi, thanks for having me Kine.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I know you have been asked this before, specifically my
police and many many other law enforcement But could you
go back to the day that you when you learn
Kyen has disappeared? Just seven years old at the time.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yeah, I was at work that day and came home
after I was in the office and went to walk
down to the bus stop that's down our driveway and
went down to meet him when gets off the bus,
something we do pretty much on every day. And the
(02:05):
bus came down and the door opened, and the bus
driver looked at us a little bit puzzled and had
mentioned that he was not on the bus, and that
came as a shock, and we talked to her for
a few minutes, at which time we ran back up
to the house and got in the car and went
up to the school to try to find out what
(02:27):
was happening while we were making phone calls on the way.
So it was a very shocking situation at that point
in time. And then went to the school, talked to
the teachers and faculty up there, placed the call the
nine one one, and that's when the Sheriff's office got
involved and just kind of evolved from there.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'm just thinking about that trip, that frantic drive that
you made to the school, Kay, I'm projecting.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I remember I was in New York and I had just.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Gotten the children made in their pajamas and called home
and found out my dad was on life support.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Within about fifteen.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Minutes, we we're out on the street, trying to hail
a cab to hopefully get a flight home, that trek,
trying to get home, trying to get somewhere to get
to my dad. Will you describe those moments where you
(03:30):
are frantically on the phone, You're driving, You're trying to
get your facts together and find out everything you can.
What was going through your mind? What happened on that
trip back to the school.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, it was just a very I don't know that
I have a good description of it, very visceral panic. Nothing.
I mean, sure panic the one thing or one of
you know, one of the top things I think most
parents fear is their children going missing. You want to
protect them, you want to be able to know where
(04:04):
they are at all times. And I was just panicked.
It was just terror. I don't remember much else. I
remember just I think what I've learned since then about
trauma response, I think that it was in just full
trauma mode at that point in time. You know, everything
just looked different, the scenery looked different. On the drive up,
(04:25):
there just everything racing through my mind of you know,
all the different scenarios that could play out. But it
was honestly, it was terror. I couldn't even really explain
the thoughts at that point. It was sheer panic.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Another thing Caine Hormon guys joining us is Kyen's dad Kane.
Many people would say it's not their fault, they just
haven't lived through it. Well, it's no big deal that
he's not on the bus, because what if he stayed
on the playground and was playing in the bus left
without him.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
What if he stayed in one of the rooms and
was doing stre assignment.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
There's something called routine evidence, evidence of routine. Every day
I pick up my children at a certain spot at school.
If they're not there, there's a problem. It would be
for instance, if everybody got together and came here and
it's time to get hooked up to you and know, Nancy,
(05:23):
that has never happened. It means something. It's significant. How
did you know here and here in your head and
your heart when he did not get off that bus,
when those doors swung open. How did you know instinctively
something was very wrong? It wasn't just playing on the
(05:44):
playground or staying in a classroom.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, that's exactly how you describe it. The button the
bus comes, he gets off. Every day, there's y'all want
to discussion around, you know, whether or not he was
at school still or you know, other things, and he
just very routine, Like you said, I don't know that
we had a situation where he ever missed the bus
(06:07):
up until then, and I'll recall him, you know, being
on the playground or in the classroom without us knowing
about it. And I think that's the main thing is usually,
I think in a lot of those circumstances, if there's
something after school, you usually notified, and the school's usually
really good about doing that. So it was just an
immediate response that something's definitely off, because we either would
(06:29):
have heard or he'd be stepping off those bus steps
right now. So exactly what you described, it was pretty
much like clockwork every day, and that was just the
one day that it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay, Well you got to the school. What happened when
you got there?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
I remember trying to locate teachers. The three of us
were up there, so we were trying to locate and
ask questions about, you know, where he was at, if
he was still there, kind of the things that we
just talked about, just getting a rundown. And they had
indicated that he was not there that day, that he
(07:05):
had been absent from school from the basically the beginning
of the day, which then was an additional shocks.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Oh my stars, that just makes my stomach hurt.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Your whole day, you're going about your.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Business, you're working, you're this, you're that, You're making calls,
you're sending emails the whole time. You think he's fine
at school, and he was not there.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
He was not checked in.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Right when you say the three of you, I can
just imagine getting to the school is still.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Kind of drop off pick up.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Everything's going crazy and you rushing in probably to the office,
going where's Ky and where is he?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Where is he? I can't find anything.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Off the bus, and then you learn he wasn't checked
in even to his very first class.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You said, the three of you, who is with you?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
His stepmom and my daughter.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Okay, let me think this through. You get to the
school and who was it that told you he was
never even here.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. I know we had started
talking to somebody, and then more people kind of gathered
around in the conversation that I don't recall who we
talked to first.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Honestly, just seven years old at the time he goes missing.
Everybody thinks he is at school that day, but he's not.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
What happened that.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Morning, Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland, Oregon is having
their annual science fair, so the school is opened about
thirty minutes earlier than normal to allow for parents and
students to see the different projects created by the students.
Arriving at Skyline just after eight am, Kyrine Horman and
his stepmother, Terry Horman, go to his classroom to drop
off his coat and backpack. Kyrone then chose his stepmother
(08:47):
his exhibit called the Red eyed tree Frog.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So Kyin Horman at school, an at Nuwell joining us
k XL News host of speaking freely with an at
newel and net thank you for being with us. But
there's no question he was at school for this pre
school science fair. Now interesting, A lot of times we
(09:09):
don't have that distinction. This was all happening before first period,
before he goes into his homeroom. Teacher, was this science fair? Explain?
Speaker 6 (09:19):
Yeah, that was an event in which there were a
lot of people who came from throughout the community, and
there wasn't a lot of what you would say supervision.
There were people coming in and out because there was
a science fair, and the adults who were coming in
weren't really being monitored very much.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace came Horman with me Kirne's dad.
So that was kind of a big morning for him
taking in the big science project.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I know when we have that with our twins, it's
a big ordeal.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Try to get everything there, don't leave anything behind, don't
crush it or hurt it on the way to school.
How was that morning before he left for school? Was
anything at all unusual? No, not from my perspective.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
We had talked that morning before he went up to
the school, before I went to work, We talked outside.
He came out with me to the car before I
got in and left. I told him that I loved
him to have a wonderful day at the exposition and
that I would see him after work, and we talk
all about it, so it was just another pretty much
(10:34):
normal day.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
What more do we know about what happened at the
school that morning?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Listen?
Speaker 7 (10:40):
Terry Horman has raised Karen since he was an infant,
and she takes a picture of Karen standing in front
of his project, posting the photo on Facebook. The two
walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and
see many other parents and children who have arrived early
for the science fair. Terry Hormon volunteers her time helping
Karen's teacher, Christina Porter, and Porter sees Kiren and Terry
Mormon in Kiren's classroom that morning, and another teacher SE's
(11:03):
Karen and Terry in another classroom before the eight forty
five am school bell rings.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Caine Horman explain to me your understanding of what happened
that morning at the science Expo and how many times
he was signed.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I mean, I see the picture, I know.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
He was there, but now I'm hearing he was in
another classroom.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
What's your understanding of his movements that morning?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah, So based on what I understand, again, this is
what I remember being told that they arrived at the school,
that they went to the classroom where his project was
on display. That's the photo that we've all seen already
with him standing in front. I did see that photo
(11:47):
later that day on our camera as well. There was
a couple other pictures of other things in the room,
from what I remember, So they did look at some
other projects in the room again from what I recall,
and then there was a description of them walking to
other classrooms and looking at other projects in those rooms.
(12:09):
I don't remember. I don't recall which teacher it was
that they went into. I think they went in the
multiple rooms from what I remember and what I was told.
And then then there was a discussion about them parting
ways up in the hall by the office, and he
supposedly walked down the hall back towards his classroom and
(12:32):
she left the building again according to what I was told.
I don't know for a fact what happened, but that
that's what I remember as the kind of the described
overview of what happened there. And again I did see
photos of the classroom in a few others, but that's
what I remember.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Okay, I'm understanding something really For the first time, this
expo wasn't in one big room like the gymnasium or
the auditorium. This was it was a different class classrooms.
So you would walk from classroom to classroom looking at
various other projects, you know, sizing up yours compared to them.
(13:11):
Did anybody have a really great idea or really bad idea?
You could talk about it at the supper table that night.
So they Kyra specifically and the stepmom are going from
room to room looking at the projects. Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, from my understanding, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I find that very significant because it's not a group
of people in one gymnasium, one gym with all the
projects and fifty people, one hundred people seeing Kiren. He's
walking from room to room.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
In and out. Everybody's milling around looking.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Parents are there from all over looking at their children's
science projects. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle.
It's you know, you might as Zobe walking through Grand
Central Station. There's a million kids running around. There's parents
that don't really know each other, who knows what happened?
(14:12):
Who could really get a good grip on the last
time Tyron is sane.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's not like he disappeared off the bus. He was there.
He was there. Guys, what more do we know about
that morning.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Listen, as Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyron
walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary.
Kyne has already placed his book bag and coat in
Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair.
Miss Porter starts her class like every day. Then the
children moved to reading group, then recess, than lunch. Around
three pm, the children, tired from a busy day, get
(14:49):
on the bus to go home. Terry Hormon and her
stepson Kyrone Horman arrived at the school science fair the
morning of June fourth, twenty ten. Stepmom claims she saw
Kyrone walk to a classroom, but teachers mark him absent,
alleging the little boy never meet it to class. Police
commence an exhaustive search around a two mile radius of
the school that includes a remote island along the Columbia River.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Where is Kyene?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You think when you take a child to school everything
is safe and sound.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Not in this case.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Joining me an all star panel, but straight back to
Kyn's father, Caine Horman, joining us, Cain, what did Stepmom
Terry tell you about what happened?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, so it was we talked about the going to
the room at the school, doing the photos, walking around
the different rooms. I actually do recall, after thinking about
it a little bit more. I think it was this
first grade teacher that they saw in his room. And
one of the interesting things about the schools, there is
(15:51):
an upstairs and a downstairs with classrooms, which I guess
I didn't mention before. So she had talked about starting
in the upstairs rooms to ring the science projects in
those rooms, then going downstairs and viewing the projects there
and then And it's been a while, my memory may
not be what it used to be, but for some
(16:12):
reason I remember her talking about them separating and meeting
because there's different stairwells to go back up to the
upper level. Where they went back up to the upper
level and met near the office, and that's where they parted,
and she saw or talked about him walking down the
hallway back to his class I don't recall her saying
she saw him doing that, but they met there and
(16:33):
then separated. At that point in the school, it's kind
of a central the office is kind of a central
spot in the upstairs. And then she went and did
some of her daily things that she had on her
list from the school. So that was the last time
that she had said that she had saw him, was
in that central meeting place by the.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Office, and as the teacher to him, you're referring.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
The teacher the names escaping me at the moment, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I just want to make sure you're talking about the
teacher says she saw him in that central area and
she took.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Off to go do all her duties. Right.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
No, I don't recall a teacher saying that that's what
I was told by his stepmom is that they had
they met up there and separated there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Gotcha, now, I understand Also to a net mule joining
us kate x L news that at least one person
saw stepmother Terry leaving the building. How do we know
what time she left? Did she leave alone? Who is
confirming that?
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Actually that information came from the mother of Kirene. She
said that there were several witnesses who have told her
that they did witness him leaving in a truck with
the stepmother. So that's that's basically where that information came from.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Speaking of Kyn's mother, Desiree.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
Listen, the investigation continue used to be on track and
is progressing toward finding Kyne. We remain confident in the
actions and constant commitment of law enforcement in the mission
to find our son.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We love you, Kiren.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Never give up, Pope.
Speaker 8 (18:16):
We are all coming to get you, to bring you home.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Back to Caine Horman Cain, did Terry ever mentioned to
you leaving the school with Kirene.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
No, not in any conversation that we had.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What do you know about potential witnesses that say they
observed her leaving with him?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having
seen him in the parking lot, or her or them
leaving together. I've heard a lot of second hand information
that there's a number of different accounts. There's accounts of
people seeing all three of them leaving because my was
(19:00):
with her as well. There's accounts of seeing him by
himself in the parking lot and getting into vehicles. I've
heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck. And
I've heard, you know, other other accounts of people witnessing
her leaving the school by herself. I don't. I haven't
heard any directly, so that's it's all second hand information.
(19:24):
I apologize, but I don't have any firsthand witness accounts
that have been dictated to me personally in that instance,
but it's been a little bit of everything, to.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Be honest, Nor do I in fact me reports state
the step mom leaves without him, that she's observed leaving
without him. How many times I can I ask you, Kane,
did you go over it and over it and over
it with stepmom Terry?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Many many times exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion
that was occurring post the interaction with the folks at
the school and then with law enforcement, and it was
pretty much a daily thing trying to walk through, you know,
who they saw, recount the steps, making sure that One
(20:18):
of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually
meet up in part ways at the office. Didn't really
ever get firsthand information that confirmed their party at that location.
So there was just a lot of conversation about trying
to understand exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened,
and then including after as well. So there was a lot.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
Kirn, who was seven years old, disappeared from Skyline Elementary
School in northwest Portland from.
Speaker 10 (20:48):
Day one, the Molnoma County Sheriff's Office has worked in
close partnership with the Molnoma County District Attorney's Office, the FBI,
and other agencies to find Kyron.
Speaker 9 (20:58):
As parents, we can't imagine the pain and struggle Kyen's
family has experienced and continues to experience without him.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
And that's why we have never given up or slowed
down in trying to find Kyron.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And neither have we. The truth is out there.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Someone knows what happened to Kyrien Horman, and I am
telling you right now. Guys with me is Kyen's father,
Kin Jarrett Farantino joining us, renowned former prosecutor, host of
True Crime, Boss Jared, thank you for being with us.
It seems to me that we understand the timeline very well.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Cain has filled it out for us.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I understand everything up until the point the stepmother leaves.
That's when things begin to get mrquis agree or disagree?
Speaker 4 (21:54):
I agree one percent.
Speaker 11 (21:56):
It's not clear whether or not Kyeren left the build
bilding with her, although Terry, the stepmom, claims she left.
I run at school, heading toward his classroom, and she
left with their little girl.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
That is the golden moment.
Speaker 11 (22:13):
This case really began Nancy, and there's some discrepancy in
Terry's story and how things played out.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Dan Corsentino, former police chief and former sheriff, also served
on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board now PI.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
At dancorsantino dot com.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Dan, right there, I'm telling you that is the critical moment,
the critical moment when suddenly nobody's sure, what where.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Where did he go that way or that way?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Was the stepmom with him not with him? That is
where the problem lies right there. You've seen it a
million times. You've been a sheriff, you've been a police chief,
you've been on Homeland Security.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right there, when the stories.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Begin to go in different directions. Everything's going along normally,
Dad leaves for work, everything's fine, they get to the school,
they make it to.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
The science fair.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
But it's suddenly with step mommy leaves, that's when everything
hits the fan.
Speaker 12 (23:18):
Dan Corsantino, Absolutely, that was the defining moment, that was
the beginning of the journey in the sad case. What
is really really interesting about this is the comfort level.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That kyn had and who he had the comfort level.
Speaker 12 (23:36):
With, and there was only one person on that particular
morning when he was at the school with Terry. That
was the person he had a comfort level with. Obviously teachers,
students and everything. But unless this was a stranger abduction,
which I don't think it was, that was individual that
(23:58):
he had the comfort level with, and everything changed as
her story continues to change.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
You know, you just mentioned something really important to be
in Coursentino. You said, unless this was a stranger abduction,
let's just talk about the reality of that possibility. Doctor
Sherry Schwartz joining me. She is a forensic psychologist and
her specialty is criminal behavior. She's the author of Criminal
Behavior and Where Law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz,
(24:29):
thank you for being with us. That is not a
possibility that there was a stranger abduction in the middle
of the elementary school science fair. Okay, the science fair
was ending, the eight forty five bail was going off
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
To go to class. What stranger what? Who?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
No stranger is in that building. Everyone is dispersing and leaving.
The only one there where the story goes side ways
is with the stepmother.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Doctor Sherry Schwartz. Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 13 (25:05):
She's the last one that was seen with Karen and
Kiren hasn't been seen since. And when people use words
like retaliation when we're talking about a missing child, they're
missing stepchild that they've known since an infant, every alarm
in my brain goes off, every alarm. You're right, doctor
(25:27):
Sherry Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
As a matter of fact, let's take a listen to
stepmom Terry on our friend doctor Field's program.
Speaker 14 (25:37):
This was in retaliation for something that he was doing
that I found out about while this is happening. And
this particular person was actually his friend and sent.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
To the house. So this was a setup.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Okay, yeah, a setup retaliation.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
What is she even talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Listen to more of the stepmom speaking to our friend
doctor Phil.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Well, that would be.
Speaker 14 (26:04):
Because the law enforcement told us to go to do
what we told us to do, things that we normally do.
So they want you to go grocery shopping, they want
you to go to the gym. Specifically told both Kane
and I, and he was with me that day when
we will win it.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Okay, what she's talking about, because she'd possibly be talking
about the X rated photo she's sending a lover within
just days after Kyine disappearing, I mean, Kine, I don't
know what you went through. I thought I knew everything
about grief. When my fiance was murdered. I couldn't eat,
(26:44):
I couldn't sleep, I could barely speak. I couldn't stand
to hear music or TV or radio or even the
clock ticking. I would vomit and vomit. I couldn't keep
anything on my stomach. The last thing I could have
thought about is sending X rayed photos of myself to
some guy. I mean, that's just not where your head
(27:06):
is at a tivel like that.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
The first thing that I wanted to do was to
cooperate with law enforcement as much as possible, And when
I wasn't doing that, I was sitting in another room,
staring at the floor and crying. For the first couple
of days, I think I slept for maybe twenty minutes.
The night that he went missing, we had a house
full of law enforcement. One of the sheriff's officers that
(27:29):
I had gotten to know over that period of time
sat across from me in the room, and I think
I might have knotted off for twenty minutes. Maybe everything
was do everything possible, as fast as possible, whatever we
needed to do, and it was just being ready and
available to go through the process that they conduct through
the investigation as much as we could. Like I said,
(27:53):
when I wasn't doing that, I was basically sitting there
crying for the first and that was the first few days.
It was the grief was overwhelming, and at the same time,
like we talked about in the ride up to the school,
in my brain was just frantically trying to figure out,
you know, what could we possibly be doing? Is this real?
(28:13):
It's still just really hadn't sunk in all the way,
but it had at the same time. I don't know
if that makes any sense, but just mulling over everything.
But yeah, I don't remember sleeping that much for the
first week, if not longer, because we were in the
middle of the investigation, we were being investigated in all
the interviews and everything else that we were trying to
(28:34):
get through. I mean, I was not on social media
at all that I recall. I don't even recall cracking
a laptop. I don't remember being on my phone. I
just remember working with the team as much as humanly
possible to make progress and on finding him. So the
things that you're describing to me completely foreign to me
at that time, and still it just ye. Sorry, I
(28:58):
don't know how it's answered. It was just it was
a very intense period of time. I have no idea
how anyone would be on that mindset.
Speaker 15 (29:06):
Terry alleges she drove along country roads to sooth daughter
Kiera's erich the morning of Chirrine's disappearance. Terry's friend Deetie
allegedly rushes out of work at the same time as
Terry's drive after receiving a mysterious phone call her whereabouts
during this time are unknown. Witnesses at the school report
(29:26):
an unidentified man in a white pickup truck at the
science fair, but his identity remains a mystery.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Guys, there's so much misdirection going on right here, so
much misdirection. To Anette Newel joining us Katexale news host,
Annette again, thank you for being with us. That parking
lot was likely full of parents leaving leaving the science fair,
(29:56):
but you are telling me evidence has emerged of at
least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving with Tyrone.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (30:09):
They were seen out in front of the school by
one of Kyron's friends, His grandma and sister as well
as his bus driver. They were walking out to the
main road, which is where the truck was parked. That
witnesses saw Terry and Kyroen leaving the school together that
morning and heading toward their truck, according to Quayinna. Also,
Terry said that she drove around town that day, stopping
(30:30):
at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her
daughter who wasn't feeling well. Then police found that Terry's
phone painted her own Highway thirty north of Portland and
that time period.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Now you're telling me that she in the vehicle in
the truck was bought it at not one, but at
least two grocery stores. Could the video be highlighted enhanced
to see if Kyen was in the car at that time.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
That's something that they tried to do a bunch of time,
and they couldn't conclusively tell whether he was in the
car or not.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Crime stores with Nancy, Grace, Annett and Neil joining us
k x L.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
And that video depicting the stepmother going to at least
to grocery stores, was that immediately upon her leaving the school.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Yeah, they do think it fit the timeline of what
she was talking about, although there was some other time
that they weren't sure if they could definitely connect what
she was saying she did versus what she did. But
they did find that there was some video of her
from surveillance cameras in that area that did show her
(31:48):
and show her in the truck.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Right question, you mentioned the pinging of her cell phone.
Explain to me where her cell phone pained.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Yeah, it was an area in north Portland, not far
from the school, around Highway thirty which runs north of Portland,
and that was after she'd spent time driving her daughter around.
She said she was driving in that area to settle
her daughter down. It's what she told police when they
asked why she was why the phone was paying around
(32:20):
in that area.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
To Kaye Horman, this is Karen's dad.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
When you asked her what had happened that morning, did
she describe this circuitous route driving around with the daughter
in the car to help her earache.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Yes, she did. She talked about the retailers she stopped at.
I want to say there was a gem stop. Again,
I don't recall it's been a while, but she did
outline that. She outlined a few of the country roads
that they were driving on. She wasn't overly specific about
which ones. There was a few she talked about, but
after that it was just driving around. But yeah, I
was familiar with that kind of timetable.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
The fourteen year investigation has turned up no clues as
to little Kiren's whereabouts, but family and investigators suspect this
was no accident. Stepmom Terry maintains her innocence as the
Hormon family continues their desperate search for answers.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
We know the stepmother has never been formally charged in
Karen Horman's disappearance. She has become the target of public suspicion.
But there seems to be a chain of alleged misconduct
really since the moment Kiren goes missing. Now to you,
(33:36):
doctor Sherry Schwartz, I know that everyone reacts differently to
pain or suffering, or loss or even stress. But this
series of alleged misconduct does not bode well, doctor Sherry.
Speaker 13 (33:54):
Not at all. And this isn't to me, This isn't
anything that would cost it to trauma response or a
grief response. This is very specific behavior. She's talking about
retaliation against Kirn's dad. She is saying things like the
police told her things like to go to the gym. Now,
(34:17):
I don't know if they did or they didn't, but
I would find that very strange because most parents are
out looking. And also, Nancy, if I lost somebody's sunglasses
that didn't belong to me, I'd be scouring the neighborhood
to find out where did I leave them, let alone
losing someone's child.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I also understand that Terry Lynn Moulton formerly Terry Horman,
face grand theft firearm charges stemming from an incident in Marysville, California, regarding.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
A stolen gun.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's just like one thing after the next, and Againcy
is not Ever, she's never been named a suspect, a
formal suspect. And the disappearance of Kiren, you know, Caine,
you earlier mentioned that you and the whole family were
being investigated. That's SOP standard operating procedure. When someone goes missing,
(35:13):
the first place police look, as they should, is at
the family members, particularly the male members. Statistically, that's typically
who did it tell me about being the target of
an investigation yourself while your son is missing?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
What was that like?
Speaker 4 (35:35):
The one way I can describe it is is it
was something that that I needed to do. I knew
I didn't have any involvements. I knew that really at
that point, it wasn't about me, is really all I
can say is about him, and I did everything I
was asked to do as fast and quickly and urgently
as possible to clear myself in the investigation because I
(35:58):
wanted them to be focused on who it So it
was just I don't know, I set aside, there was
not really a lot of emotions from me on that front,
other than they indicated the process and my job was
to clear the process, and that's absolutely what I wanted
to do, and again as urgently as possible. The focus
was on him, finding him as quickly as possible. It
(36:19):
really didn't have to do with me as far as
how I felt about what was happening. It was just
what I needed to do as his parent to help
him get recovered as early as possible. So it was
basically my mission to do every and anything asked to
clear that process and continue to move forward. So it
was a lot less about emotion at that point. I
(36:39):
know I described the first couple like twenty four to
forty eight hours just being kind of unresponsive unless I
was being interviewed with investigators, crying and all that stuff,
And as we started to get further into the process,
I kind of had to set that aside and become
more focused on what needed to be done, the task
that needed to be done, and not being emotional about
(37:01):
how I felt. At that particular point in time. I
missed him. I was frantic, but at the same time
I needed them to focus on who actually did this.
So it was about clearing. It was one hundred percent
just about clearing everything that I needed to clear so
we could stay focused on him.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
I don't even no words to describe what I think
you've been through. But now, what is your message to
anybody out there that may know anything about Tyron?
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Well, first and foremost, Kyen, if you're still out there,
we're still looking for you, So I will always lead
with that. No one's given up. We are still looking.
We haven't given up. We love you, we miss you.
We are still active, the investigations active, We're still looking
to everyone out there. Keep recording tips. We have tips
(37:53):
coming in through the phone still to this day, lots
on email. There's a website that I'm I'm sure that
you guys will have the information for that. The Sheriff's
office is put up now in addition to the one
that we've put up for the past fourteen years, they
recently put up a new one that gives a rough timeline,
gives the tip line, it gives an email tip line.
(38:15):
Would encourage everyone to submit tips, no matter how big
or small you think they are. Try not to rule
them out, try not to filter them, Just submit them
and the investigators will do that work. But urge anybody
who feels that they witnessed anything, no matter how long
ago it was, to submit that information through the tip line,
and again, don't try to filter it out, don't try
(38:38):
to vet it for yourself, give it, pass it along.
So I would highly encourage that. The other thing is
there are age progress photos on the website. There's I
think the original and three others. He's not seven anymore,
and so that's one thing that we try to remind
folks is that he's older. He may or may not
have his glasses right now as well, so if he
is still alive and he is out there with somebody,
(39:00):
you know, we're trying to get people familiarized with those
age progressed with and without the glasses. So if they
do see a similarity that they call on that tip
as well. But the tip line that both the phone
and the email are open. They're still actively getting tips.
Please continue to submit them as much as you can.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
You can, of course call Enigma or one eight hundred
the Lost, one eight hundred the Lost. There is a
fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to the resolution
of Kirene's disappearance, A fifty thousand dollar reward. Thank you
(39:39):
for being with us, joining us in the search for
Kiren Horman Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, live rural Oregon. Stepmommy walks
her seven year old down the hall of his elementary school.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
He's never seen again.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Police now insisting step Mommy take a second polygraph, and
in a bizarre twist, we learned Stepmommy sending X rated
photos to a lover just days after Kiren disappears. Despite
all of this, still no sign of seven year old
Tyrone Horman. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
(00:40):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Which started as another school morning soon turn into a
nightmare for parents of seven year old Kyrone Horman, who
unexplicably vanished from a school science fair, a suspicious drive,
an alleged accomplice, and a murder for higher plot, Where
is little old Kyn Horman.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
This is a question that has gone through our minds
and hearts over and over and over. Joining me an
all star panel to make sense of what we are
learning about Kyn's disappearance.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
But first I.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Want to go to a very special guest. Kywen's father
is joining us, Cain Horman Kane. Thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Hi, thanks for having me Kine.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I know you have been asked this before, specifically my
police and many many other law enforcement But could you
go back to the day that you when you learn
Kyen has disappeared? Just seven years old at the time.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yeah, I was at work that day and came home
after I was in the office and went to walk
down to the bus stop that's down our driveway and
went down to meet him when gets off the bus,
something we do pretty much on every day. And the
(02:05):
bus came down and the door opened, and the bus
driver looked at us a little bit puzzled and had
mentioned that he was not on the bus, and that
came as a shock, and we talked to her for
a few minutes, at which time we ran back up
to the house and got in the car and went
up to the school to try to find out what
(02:27):
was happening while we were making phone calls on the way.
So it was a very shocking situation at that point
in time. And then went to the school, talked to
the teachers and faculty up there, placed the call the
nine one one, and that's when the Sheriff's office got
involved and just kind of evolved from there.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'm just thinking about that trip, that frantic drive that
you made to the school, Kay, I'm projecting.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I remember I was in New York and I had just.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Gotten the children made in their pajamas and called home
and found out my dad was on life support.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Within about fifteen.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Minutes, we we're out on the street, trying to hail
a cab to hopefully get a flight home, that trek,
trying to get home, trying to get somewhere to get
to my dad. Will you describe those moments where you
(03:30):
are frantically on the phone, You're driving, You're trying to
get your facts together and find out everything you can.
What was going through your mind? What happened on that
trip back to the school.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Well, it was just a very I don't know that
I have a good description of it, very visceral panic. Nothing.
I mean, sure panic the one thing or one of
you know, one of the top things I think most
parents fear is their children going missing. You want to
protect them, you want to be able to know where
(04:04):
they are at all times. And I was just panicked.
It was just terror. I don't remember much else. I
remember just I think what I've learned since then about
trauma response, I think that it was in just full
trauma mode at that point in time. You know, everything
just looked different, the scenery looked different. On the drive up,
(04:25):
there just everything racing through my mind of you know,
all the different scenarios that could play out. But it
was honestly, it was terror. I couldn't even really explain
the thoughts at that point. It was sheer panic.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Another thing Caine Hormon guys joining us is Kyen's dad Kane.
Many people would say it's not their fault, they just
haven't lived through it. Well, it's no big deal that
he's not on the bus, because what if he stayed
on the playground and was playing in the bus left
without him.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
What if he stayed in one of the rooms and
was doing stre assignment.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
There's something called routine evidence, evidence of routine. Every day
I pick up my children at a certain spot at school.
If they're not there, there's a problem. It would be
for instance, if everybody got together and came here and
it's time to get hooked up to you and know, Nancy,
(05:23):
that has never happened. It means something. It's significant. How
did you know here and here in your head and
your heart when he did not get off that bus,
when those doors swung open. How did you know instinctively
something was very wrong? It wasn't just playing on the
(05:44):
playground or staying in a classroom.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, that's exactly how you describe it. The button the
bus comes, he gets off. Every day, there's y'all want
to discussion around, you know, whether or not he was
at school still or you know, other things, and he
just very routine, Like you said, I don't know that
we had a situation where he ever missed the bus
(06:07):
up until then, and I'll recall him, you know, being
on the playground or in the classroom without us knowing
about it. And I think that's the main thing is usually,
I think in a lot of those circumstances, if there's
something after school, you usually notified, and the school's usually
really good about doing that. So it was just an
immediate response that something's definitely off, because we either would
(06:29):
have heard or he'd be stepping off those bus steps
right now. So exactly what you described, it was pretty
much like clockwork every day, and that was just the
one day that it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay, Well you got to the school. What happened when
you got there?
Speaker 4 (06:43):
I remember trying to locate teachers. The three of us
were up there, so we were trying to locate and
ask questions about, you know, where he was at, if
he was still there, kind of the things that we
just talked about, just getting a rundown. And they had
indicated that he was not there that day, that he
(07:05):
had been absent from school from the basically the beginning
of the day, which then was an additional shocks.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Oh my stars, that just makes my stomach hurt.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Your whole day, you're going about your.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Business, you're working, you're this, you're that, You're making calls,
you're sending emails the whole time. You think he's fine
at school, and he was not there.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
He was not checked in.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Right when you say the three of you, I can
just imagine getting to the school is still.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Kind of drop off pick up.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Everything's going crazy and you rushing in probably to the office,
going where's Ky and where is he?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Where is he? I can't find anything.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Off the bus, and then you learn he wasn't checked
in even to his very first class.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
You said, the three of you, who is with you?
Speaker 4 (07:53):
His stepmom and my daughter.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Okay, let me think this through. You get to the
school and who was it that told you he was
never even here.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, honestly, I don't remember. I know we had started
talking to somebody, and then more people kind of gathered
around in the conversation that I don't recall who we
talked to first.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Honestly, just seven years old at the time he goes missing.
Everybody thinks he is at school that day, but he's not.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
What happened that.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
Morning, Skyline Elementary School in northwest Portland, Oregon is having
their annual science fair, so the school is opened about
thirty minutes earlier than normal to allow for parents and
students to see the different projects created by the students.
Arriving at Skyline just after eight am, Kyrine Horman and
his stepmother, Terry Horman, go to his classroom to drop
off his coat and backpack. Kyrone then chose his stepmother
(08:47):
his exhibit called the Red eyed tree Frog.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
So Kyin Horman at school, an at Nuwell joining us
k XL News host of speaking freely with an at
newel and net thank you for being with us. But
there's no question he was at school for this pre
school science fair. Now interesting, A lot of times we
(09:09):
don't have that distinction. This was all happening before first period,
before he goes into his homeroom. Teacher, was this science fair? Explain?
Speaker 6 (09:19):
Yeah, that was an event in which there were a
lot of people who came from throughout the community, and
there wasn't a lot of what you would say supervision.
There were people coming in and out because there was
a science fair, and the adults who were coming in
weren't really being monitored very much.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace came Horman with me Kirne's dad.
So that was kind of a big morning for him
taking in the big science project.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I know when we have that with our twins, it's
a big ordeal.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Try to get everything there, don't leave anything behind, don't
crush it or hurt it on the way to school.
How was that morning before he left for school? Was
anything at all unusual? No, not from my perspective.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
We had talked that morning before he went up to
the school, before I went to work, We talked outside.
He came out with me to the car before I
got in and left. I told him that I loved
him to have a wonderful day at the exposition and
that I would see him after work, and we talk
all about it, so it was just another pretty much
(10:34):
normal day.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
What more do we know about what happened at the
school that morning?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Listen?
Speaker 7 (10:40):
Terry Horman has raised Karen since he was an infant,
and she takes a picture of Karen standing in front
of his project, posting the photo on Facebook. The two
walk around the classes looking at other students' projects and
see many other parents and children who have arrived early
for the science fair. Terry Hormon volunteers her time helping
Karen's teacher, Christina Porter, and Porter sees Kiren and Terry
Mormon in Kiren's classroom that morning, and another teacher SE's
(11:03):
Karen and Terry in another classroom before the eight forty
five am school bell rings.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Caine Horman explain to me your understanding of what happened
that morning at the science Expo and how many times
he was signed.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I mean, I see the picture, I know.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
He was there, but now I'm hearing he was in
another classroom.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
What's your understanding of his movements that morning?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah, So based on what I understand, again, this is
what I remember being told that they arrived at the school,
that they went to the classroom where his project was
on display. That's the photo that we've all seen already
with him standing in front. I did see that photo
(11:47):
later that day on our camera as well. There was
a couple other pictures of other things in the room,
from what I remember, So they did look at some
other projects in the room again from what I recall,
and then there was a description of them walking to
other classrooms and looking at other projects in those rooms.
(12:09):
I don't remember. I don't recall which teacher it was
that they went into. I think they went in the
multiple rooms from what I remember and what I was told.
And then then there was a discussion about them parting
ways up in the hall by the office, and he
supposedly walked down the hall back towards his classroom and
(12:32):
she left the building again according to what I was told.
I don't know for a fact what happened, but that
that's what I remember as the kind of the described
overview of what happened there. And again I did see
photos of the classroom in a few others, but that's
what I remember.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Okay, I'm understanding something really For the first time, this
expo wasn't in one big room like the gymnasium or
the auditorium. This was it was a different class classrooms.
So you would walk from classroom to classroom looking at
various other projects, you know, sizing up yours compared to them.
(13:11):
Did anybody have a really great idea or really bad idea?
You could talk about it at the supper table that night.
So they Kyra specifically and the stepmom are going from
room to room looking at the projects. Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, from my understanding, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I find that very significant because it's not a group
of people in one gymnasium, one gym with all the
projects and fifty people, one hundred people seeing Kiren. He's
walking from room to room.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
In and out. Everybody's milling around looking.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Parents are there from all over looking at their children's
science projects. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle.
It's you know, you might as Zobe walking through Grand
Central Station. There's a million kids running around. There's parents
that don't really know each other, who knows what happened?
(14:12):
Who could really get a good grip on the last
time Tyron is sane.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It's not like he disappeared off the bus. He was there.
He was there. Guys, what more do we know about
that morning.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
Listen, as Terry Horman leaves the school, she sees Kyron
walking down a hallway toward his classroom inside Skyline Elementary.
Kyne has already placed his book bag and coat in
Miss Porter's classroom when he first arrived for the science fair.
Miss Porter starts her class like every day. Then the
children moved to reading group, then recess, than lunch. Around
three pm, the children, tired from a busy day, get
(14:49):
on the bus to go home. Terry Hormon and her
stepson Kyrone Horman arrived at the school science fair the
morning of June fourth, twenty ten. Stepmom claims she saw
Kyrone walk to a classroom, but teachers mark him absent,
alleging the little boy never meet it to class. Police
commence an exhaustive search around a two mile radius of
the school that includes a remote island along the Columbia River.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Where is Kyene?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
You think when you take a child to school everything
is safe and sound.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Not in this case.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Joining me an all star panel, but straight back to
Kyn's father, Caine Horman, joining us, Cain, what did Stepmom
Terry tell you about what happened?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, so it was we talked about the going to
the room at the school, doing the photos, walking around
the different rooms. I actually do recall, after thinking about
it a little bit more. I think it was this
first grade teacher that they saw in his room. And
one of the interesting things about the schools, there is
(15:51):
an upstairs and a downstairs with classrooms, which I guess
I didn't mention before. So she had talked about starting
in the upstairs rooms to ring the science projects in
those rooms, then going downstairs and viewing the projects there
and then And it's been a while, my memory may
not be what it used to be, but for some
(16:12):
reason I remember her talking about them separating and meeting
because there's different stairwells to go back up to the
upper level. Where they went back up to the upper
level and met near the office, and that's where they parted,
and she saw or talked about him walking down the
hallway back to his class I don't recall her saying
she saw him doing that, but they met there and
(16:33):
then separated. At that point in the school, it's kind
of a central the office is kind of a central
spot in the upstairs. And then she went and did
some of her daily things that she had on her
list from the school. So that was the last time
that she had said that she had saw him, was
in that central meeting place by the.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Office, and as the teacher to him, you're referring.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
The teacher the names escaping me at the moment, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I just want to make sure you're talking about the
teacher says she saw him in that central area and
she took.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Off to go do all her duties. Right.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
No, I don't recall a teacher saying that that's what
I was told by his stepmom is that they had
they met up there and separated there.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Gotcha, now, I understand Also to a net mule joining
us kate x L news that at least one person
saw stepmother Terry leaving the building. How do we know
what time she left? Did she leave alone? Who is
confirming that?
Speaker 6 (17:38):
Actually that information came from the mother of Kirene. She
said that there were several witnesses who have told her
that they did witness him leaving in a truck with
the stepmother. So that's that's basically where that information came from.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Speaking of Kyn's mother, Desiree.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
Listen, the investigation continue used to be on track and
is progressing toward finding Kyne. We remain confident in the
actions and constant commitment of law enforcement in the mission
to find our son.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We love you, Kiren.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
Never give up, Pope.
Speaker 8 (18:16):
We are all coming to get you, to bring you home.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Back to Caine Horman Cain, did Terry ever mentioned to
you leaving the school with Kirene.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
No, not in any conversation that we had.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What do you know about potential witnesses that say they
observed her leaving with him?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having
seen him in the parking lot, or her or them
leaving together. I've heard a lot of second hand information
that there's a number of different accounts. There's accounts of
people seeing all three of them leaving because my was
(19:00):
with her as well. There's accounts of seeing him by
himself in the parking lot and getting into vehicles. I've
heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck. And
I've heard, you know, other other accounts of people witnessing
her leaving the school by herself. I don't. I haven't
heard any directly, so that's it's all second hand information.
(19:24):
I apologize, but I don't have any firsthand witness accounts
that have been dictated to me personally in that instance,
but it's been a little bit of everything, to.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Be honest, Nor do I in fact me reports state
the step mom leaves without him, that she's observed leaving
without him. How many times I can I ask you, Kane,
did you go over it and over it and over
it with stepmom Terry?
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Many many times exhaustively. There was a lot of discussion
that was occurring post the interaction with the folks at
the school and then with law enforcement, and it was
pretty much a daily thing trying to walk through, you know,
who they saw, recount the steps, making sure that One
(20:18):
of my biggest concerns was, you know, did they actually
meet up in part ways at the office. Didn't really
ever get firsthand information that confirmed their party at that location.
So there was just a lot of conversation about trying
to understand exactly what happened, where it happened, how it happened,
and then including after as well. So there was a lot.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
Kirn, who was seven years old, disappeared from Skyline Elementary
School in northwest Portland from.
Speaker 10 (20:48):
Day one, the Molnoma County Sheriff's Office has worked in
close partnership with the Molnoma County District Attorney's Office, the FBI,
and other agencies to find Kyron.
Speaker 9 (20:58):
As parents, we can't imagine the pain and struggle Kyen's
family has experienced and continues to experience without him.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
And that's why we have never given up or slowed
down in trying to find Kyron.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And neither have we. The truth is out there.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Someone knows what happened to Kyrien Horman, and I am
telling you right now. Guys with me is Kyen's father,
Kin Jarrett Farantino joining us, renowned former prosecutor, host of
True Crime, Boss Jared, thank you for being with us.
It seems to me that we understand the timeline very well.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Cain has filled it out for us.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I understand everything up until the point the stepmother leaves.
That's when things begin to get mrquis agree or disagree?
Speaker 4 (21:54):
I agree one percent.
Speaker 11 (21:56):
It's not clear whether or not Kyeren left the build
bilding with her, although Terry, the stepmom, claims she left.
I run at school, heading toward his classroom, and she
left with their little girl.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
That is the golden moment.
Speaker 11 (22:13):
This case really began Nancy, and there's some discrepancy in
Terry's story and how things played out.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Dan Corsentino, former police chief and former sheriff, also served
on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board now PI.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
At dancorsantino dot com.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Dan, right there, I'm telling you that is the critical moment,
the critical moment when suddenly nobody's sure, what where.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Where did he go that way or that way?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Was the stepmom with him not with him? That is
where the problem lies right there. You've seen it a
million times. You've been a sheriff, you've been a police chief,
you've been on Homeland Security.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right there, when the stories.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Begin to go in different directions. Everything's going along normally,
Dad leaves for work, everything's fine, they get to the school,
they make it to.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
The science fair.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
But it's suddenly with step mommy leaves, that's when everything
hits the fan.
Speaker 12 (23:18):
Dan Corsantino, Absolutely, that was the defining moment, that was
the beginning of the journey in the sad case. What
is really really interesting about this is the comfort level.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That kyn had and who he had the comfort level.
Speaker 12 (23:36):
With, and there was only one person on that particular
morning when he was at the school with Terry. That
was the person he had a comfort level with. Obviously teachers,
students and everything. But unless this was a stranger abduction,
which I don't think it was, that was individual that
(23:58):
he had the comfort level with, and everything changed as
her story continues to change.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
You know, you just mentioned something really important to be
in Coursentino. You said, unless this was a stranger abduction,
let's just talk about the reality of that possibility. Doctor
Sherry Schwartz joining me. She is a forensic psychologist and
her specialty is criminal behavior. She's the author of Criminal
Behavior and Where Law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz,
(24:29):
thank you for being with us. That is not a
possibility that there was a stranger abduction in the middle
of the elementary school science fair. Okay, the science fair
was ending, the eight forty five bail was going off
for everyone.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
To go to class. What stranger what? Who?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
No stranger is in that building. Everyone is dispersing and leaving.
The only one there where the story goes side ways
is with the stepmother.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Doctor Sherry Schwartz. Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 13 (25:05):
She's the last one that was seen with Karen and
Kiren hasn't been seen since. And when people use words
like retaliation when we're talking about a missing child, they're
missing stepchild that they've known since an infant, every alarm
in my brain goes off, every alarm. You're right, doctor
(25:27):
Sherry Schwartz.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
As a matter of fact, let's take a listen to
stepmom Terry on our friend doctor Field's program.
Speaker 14 (25:37):
This was in retaliation for something that he was doing
that I found out about while this is happening. And
this particular person was actually his friend and sent.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
To the house. So this was a setup.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Okay, yeah, a setup retaliation.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
What is she even talking about?
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Listen to more of the stepmom speaking to our friend
doctor Phil.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Well, that would be.
Speaker 14 (26:04):
Because the law enforcement told us to go to do
what we told us to do, things that we normally do.
So they want you to go grocery shopping, they want
you to go to the gym. Specifically told both Kane
and I, and he was with me that day when
we will win it.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Okay, what she's talking about, because she'd possibly be talking
about the X rated photo she's sending a lover within
just days after Kyine disappearing, I mean, Kine, I don't
know what you went through. I thought I knew everything
about grief. When my fiance was murdered. I couldn't eat,
(26:44):
I couldn't sleep, I could barely speak. I couldn't stand
to hear music or TV or radio or even the
clock ticking. I would vomit and vomit. I couldn't keep
anything on my stomach. The last thing I could have
thought about is sending X rayed photos of myself to
some guy. I mean, that's just not where your head
(27:06):
is at a tivel like that.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
The first thing that I wanted to do was to
cooperate with law enforcement as much as possible, And when
I wasn't doing that, I was sitting in another room,
staring at the floor and crying. For the first couple
of days, I think I slept for maybe twenty minutes.
The night that he went missing, we had a house
full of law enforcement. One of the sheriff's officers that
(27:29):
I had gotten to know over that period of time
sat across from me in the room, and I think
I might have knotted off for twenty minutes. Maybe everything
was do everything possible, as fast as possible, whatever we
needed to do, and it was just being ready and
available to go through the process that they conduct through
the investigation as much as we could. Like I said,
(27:53):
when I wasn't doing that, I was basically sitting there
crying for the first and that was the first few days.
It was the grief was overwhelming, and at the same time,
like we talked about in the ride up to the school,
in my brain was just frantically trying to figure out,
you know, what could we possibly be doing? Is this real?
(28:13):
It's still just really hadn't sunk in all the way,
but it had at the same time. I don't know
if that makes any sense, but just mulling over everything.
But yeah, I don't remember sleeping that much for the
first week, if not longer, because we were in the
middle of the investigation, we were being investigated in all
the interviews and everything else that we were trying to
(28:34):
get through. I mean, I was not on social media
at all that I recall. I don't even recall cracking
a laptop. I don't remember being on my phone. I
just remember working with the team as much as humanly
possible to make progress and on finding him. So the
things that you're describing to me completely foreign to me
at that time, and still it just ye. Sorry, I
(28:58):
don't know how it's answered. It was just it was
a very intense period of time. I have no idea
how anyone would be on that mindset.
Speaker 15 (29:06):
Terry alleges she drove along country roads to sooth daughter
Kiera's erich the morning of Chirrine's disappearance. Terry's friend Deetie
allegedly rushes out of work at the same time as
Terry's drive after receiving a mysterious phone call her whereabouts
during this time are unknown. Witnesses at the school report
(29:26):
an unidentified man in a white pickup truck at the
science fair, but his identity remains a mystery.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Guys, there's so much misdirection going on right here, so
much misdirection. To Anette Newel joining us Katexale news host,
Annette again, thank you for being with us. That parking
lot was likely full of parents leaving leaving the science fair,
(29:56):
but you are telling me evidence has emerged of at
least one witness seeing the stepmother leaving with Tyrone.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (30:09):
They were seen out in front of the school by
one of Kyron's friends, His grandma and sister as well
as his bus driver. They were walking out to the
main road, which is where the truck was parked. That
witnesses saw Terry and Kyroen leaving the school together that
morning and heading toward their truck, according to Quayinna. Also,
Terry said that she drove around town that day, stopping
(30:30):
at the two grocery stores to get medicine for her
daughter who wasn't feeling well. Then police found that Terry's
phone painted her own Highway thirty north of Portland and
that time period.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Now you're telling me that she in the vehicle in
the truck was bought it at not one, but at
least two grocery stores. Could the video be highlighted enhanced
to see if Kyen was in the car at that time.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
That's something that they tried to do a bunch of time,
and they couldn't conclusively tell whether he was in the
car or not.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Crime stores with Nancy, Grace, Annett and Neil joining us
k x L.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
And that video depicting the stepmother going to at least
to grocery stores, was that immediately upon her leaving the school.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Yeah, they do think it fit the timeline of what
she was talking about, although there was some other time
that they weren't sure if they could definitely connect what
she was saying she did versus what she did. But
they did find that there was some video of her
from surveillance cameras in that area that did show her
(31:48):
and show her in the truck.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Right question, you mentioned the pinging of her cell phone.
Explain to me where her cell phone pained.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
Yeah, it was an area in north Portland, not far
from the school, around Highway thirty which runs north of Portland,
and that was after she'd spent time driving her daughter around.
She said she was driving in that area to settle
her daughter down. It's what she told police when they
asked why she was why the phone was paying around
(32:20):
in that area.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
To Kaye Horman, this is Karen's dad.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
When you asked her what had happened that morning, did
she describe this circuitous route driving around with the daughter
in the car to help her earache.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Yes, she did. She talked about the retailers she stopped at.
I want to say there was a gem stop. Again,
I don't recall it's been a while, but she did
outline that. She outlined a few of the country roads
that they were driving on. She wasn't overly specific about
which ones. There was a few she talked about, but
after that it was just driving around. But yeah, I
was familiar with that kind of timetable.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
The fourteen year investigation has turned up no clues as
to little Kiren's whereabouts, but family and investigators suspect this
was no accident. Stepmom Terry maintains her innocence as the
Hormon family continues their desperate search for answers.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
We know the stepmother has never been formally charged in
Karen Horman's disappearance. She has become the target of public suspicion.
But there seems to be a chain of alleged misconduct
really since the moment Kiren goes missing. Now to you,
(33:36):
doctor Sherry Schwartz, I know that everyone reacts differently to
pain or suffering, or loss or even stress. But this
series of alleged misconduct does not bode well, doctor Sherry.
Speaker 13 (33:54):
Not at all. And this isn't to me, This isn't
anything that would cost it to trauma response or a
grief response. This is very specific behavior. She's talking about
retaliation against Kirn's dad. She is saying things like the
police told her things like to go to the gym. Now,
(34:17):
I don't know if they did or they didn't, but
I would find that very strange because most parents are
out looking. And also, Nancy, if I lost somebody's sunglasses
that didn't belong to me, I'd be scouring the neighborhood
to find out where did I leave them, let alone
losing someone's child.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I also understand that Terry Lynn Moulton formerly Terry Horman,
face grand theft firearm charges stemming from an incident in Marysville, California, regarding.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
A stolen gun.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's just like one thing after the next, and Againcy
is not Ever, she's never been named a suspect, a
formal suspect. And the disappearance of Kiren, you know, Caine,
you earlier mentioned that you and the whole family were
being investigated. That's SOP standard operating procedure. When someone goes missing,
(35:13):
the first place police look, as they should, is at
the family members, particularly the male members. Statistically, that's typically
who did it tell me about being the target of
an investigation yourself while your son is missing?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
What was that like?
Speaker 4 (35:35):
The one way I can describe it is is it
was something that that I needed to do. I knew
I didn't have any involvements. I knew that really at
that point, it wasn't about me, is really all I
can say is about him, and I did everything I
was asked to do as fast and quickly and urgently
as possible to clear myself in the investigation because I
(35:58):
wanted them to be focused on who it So it
was just I don't know, I set aside, there was
not really a lot of emotions from me on that front,
other than they indicated the process and my job was
to clear the process, and that's absolutely what I wanted
to do, and again as urgently as possible. The focus
was on him, finding him as quickly as possible. It
(36:19):
really didn't have to do with me as far as
how I felt about what was happening. It was just
what I needed to do as his parent to help
him get recovered as early as possible. So it was
basically my mission to do every and anything asked to
clear that process and continue to move forward. So it
was a lot less about emotion at that point. I
(36:39):
know I described the first couple like twenty four to
forty eight hours just being kind of unresponsive unless I
was being interviewed with investigators, crying and all that stuff,
And as we started to get further into the process,
I kind of had to set that aside and become
more focused on what needed to be done, the task
that needed to be done, and not being emotional about
(37:01):
how I felt. At that particular point in time. I
missed him. I was frantic, but at the same time
I needed them to focus on who actually did this.
So it was about clearing. It was one hundred percent
just about clearing everything that I needed to clear so
we could stay focused on him.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
I don't even no words to describe what I think
you've been through. But now, what is your message to
anybody out there that may know anything about Tyron?
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Well, first and foremost, Kyen, if you're still out there,
we're still looking for you, So I will always lead
with that. No one's given up. We are still looking.
We haven't given up. We love you, we miss you.
We are still active, the investigations active, We're still looking
to everyone out there. Keep recording tips. We have tips
(37:53):
coming in through the phone still to this day, lots
on email. There's a website that I'm I'm sure that
you guys will have the information for that. The Sheriff's
office is put up now in addition to the one
that we've put up for the past fourteen years, they
recently put up a new one that gives a rough timeline,
gives the tip line, it gives an email tip line.
(38:15):
Would encourage everyone to submit tips, no matter how big
or small you think they are. Try not to rule
them out, try not to filter them, Just submit them
and the investigators will do that work. But urge anybody
who feels that they witnessed anything, no matter how long
ago it was, to submit that information through the tip line,
and again, don't try to filter it out, don't try
(38:38):
to vet it for yourself, give it, pass it along.
So I would highly encourage that. The other thing is
there are age progress photos on the website. There's I
think the original and three others. He's not seven anymore,
and so that's one thing that we try to remind
folks is that he's older. He may or may not
have his glasses right now as well, so if he
is still alive and he is out there with somebody,
(39:00):
you know, we're trying to get people familiarized with those
age progressed with and without the glasses. So if they
do see a similarity that they call on that tip
as well. But the tip line that both the phone
and the email are open. They're still actively getting tips.
Please continue to submit them as much as you can.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
You can, of course call Enigma or one eight hundred
the Lost, one eight hundred the Lost. There is a
fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to the resolution
of Kirene's disappearance, A fifty thousand dollar reward. Thank you
(39:39):
for being with us, joining us in the search for
Kiren Horman Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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