April 5, 2024 • 41 mins
As a Halloween party in an upscale neighborhood gets out of hand, neighbors call 911 saying there are too many cars and drunk teens in the neighborhood.
As Preston Lord and his friends leave the party, one of Lord's friends has a necklace stolen by another group of teens. A fight breaks out when Lord tries to get the necklace back. He is beaten by a group of teens who knock Lord unconscious and kick him while he’s on the ground. Witnesses recount seeing the attackers “hump” Lord and someone in a white suit returning to stomp on Preston Lord, still unconscious in the middle of the street.
As Preston Lord lays unconscious on the pavement, friends determine his heart has stopped and other partygoers perform CPR until police arrive and take over. Lord is taken by ambulance to Chandler Regional Hospital, then transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely critical condition with a severe brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs to his injuries.
For those involved, Lord’s death is fodder for social media, some trying to figure out how to cash in on the reward money offered for information about what happened.
The suspects discuss the fight over Snapchat with one of the messages reading, "My mom wants in on the $10K.”
These messages are some of the first real clues police begin to follow. A tipster notifies police that Talan Renner admitted to a friend that he threw the first punch, and Owen Hines told a friend “he only kicked him in the stomach.”
Nearly all the witnesses point out Treston Billey and Dominic Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night. Turner wore all black, while Billey donned a white suit.
Using the suspects' digital media, investigators find Taylor Sherman, who admits to taking a video of Preston as he is unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat. Talyn Vigil also sent a message reading, “I hit a kid and this kid fell, hit his head. Then they kicked his head in the ground, then I got word he died so idk.”
The day Preston Lord passes away, Talan Renner’s millionaire father, Travis Renner, goes to work trying to cover up the teen’s involvement. Renner and his business partner allegedly hand out NDAs and push a story that despite Talan Renner having thrown the first punch, Talyn Vigil was truly to blame for Lord’s death. Renner tells the school his son is being bullied, and whisks Talan away to his $800,000 golf club cabin in Show Low, Arizona for a week while Talan’s hands heal from the fight.
Meanwhile Talan Renner brags to friends on Snapchat, “I got in a fight, a big group fight, and I accidentally killed a kid. I guess I’m just too strong.”
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Jeanna "Gina" Pignatiello - Neighbor who called 911; Instagram @JPignatiello
- Ray Giudice – Criminal Defense Attorney in Atlanta, GA; X: @raygiudice
- Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” X: @TrialDoc"
- Julie Lewis – President & CEO, Digital Mountain, Inc.
- Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist
- Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker at Lead Stories; X: @swimmie2009
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Did an Arizona multi millionaire cover up his son's involvement
in murder?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Did his teen boy take part in.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Brutally beating another boy dead, kicking, beating until the boy
lie there unconscious and dies. Why did cops have to
apologize for allowing the multimillionaire dad's car to be valeted
(00:46):
when this goes to court?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
What is happening? Does this guy really believe because he's.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
A multi millionaire he's somehow above the law. Because I
got news for you, You're not, see Grace.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
What happened the night of that fateful party? A group
of teens getting together at Halloween party?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
How can it go so wrong?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I'm gonna I'm at a party and a bunch of
people are with.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
The guns and jump my friend and he's knocked.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Out on the ground. He's been unconscious for like two minutes.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
We need people over here.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Okay, I'm let and then started, okay, don't hang up
to stay on the line with me.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You are hearing the nine to one one call from
the night This young boy was beaten and kicked brutally
until he dies. We've got an all star panel. But
first I want to go out to veteran criminal defense attorney,
high profile lawyer in inter city Atlanta, Raymond Judice at
rayglaw dot com. Ray as you know you as a
(02:06):
defense attorney, me as a prosecutor.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
The first thing I would like to do when.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I struck a jury is play the nine to one
one call, because witnesses can tell their version on the stand,
but there's nothing like what happened at the moment.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Agree, disagree, totally agree.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
It's how you're going to open up your opening statement
to a jury. It also sets your timeline for the
events that will occur both at the scene and post investigation.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, you're right, and the first thing you want to
do is set up the timeline.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Speaking of the nine to one one call.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
In front of a jury, I would play it straight
out all the way through.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Now, listen to more of that nine to one one call.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Listen, do you know the people that did this? Are
they still there? I don't know if they left, so
they're still here.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
I got out there as quick as possible, so I
need to get her. I don't know the people that
are here.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
We don't have any beef with them or any things.
Do you know did you see the people that assaulted them?
Did you see them well enough to get any description
or did you not see it?
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Actually?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
How they all had they all had masks on, and
it was how many?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Was it a lot?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
It's like four or five or more like fifteen? Okay,
this is.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Every parent's worst nightmare, group or gang mentality. Uh, the
first case I ever had like this At that time,
I called it wilding. When young people or people in
general do things as part of a pack that they
would never do on their own.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Take a listen to more of that nine to one
one call.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
There's not a weak enough Well I know one, I know,
I know.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
We're getting on.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
You have a you have ali yourself, did all the stuff?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Are you still there?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I'm still here. Did you say your friend has a
whole snow?
Speaker 7 (04:09):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay, that's good. My god, dude, I'm so dead. Okay,
they're here.
Speaker 8 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
You can hear the police arriving in the background, and
you hear the callers and the teams gathered around what
would soon be a dead body saying I am so dead.
They're worried about themselves being in trouble. And it's amazing
to me. I'm about to go to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime
online dot Com investigative reporter. It's amazing to me that
(04:46):
within hours, literally hours of this team boy just sixteen
years old, and you know, Alexis, this is the age
of my John, David and Lucy. Within hours of him
being pronounced dead, people were already trying to get money.
Listen to the call parton Crime Online.
Speaker 9 (05:07):
As Preston Lord lays unconscious on the pavement, friends determine
his heart has stopped. Other partygoers perform CPR until police
arrive and take over. Lord is taken by ambulance to
Chandler Regional Hospital, then transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely
critical condition with a severe brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs
(05:29):
to his injuries. For those involved, Lord's death is fodder
for social media, some trying to figure out how to
cash in on the reward money offered for information about
what happened. The suspects discuss the fight over Snapchat, with
one of the messages reading my mom once in on
the ten thousand dollars. These messages are some of the
(05:51):
first real clues police begin to follow.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I don't understand Alexis Treschuk. Within hours after this boy
is pronounced dead, people are trying to get thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
How is that?
Speaker 6 (06:02):
So the police offered a reward, a ten thousand dollars
reward for any information about this case because, as the
kids said on the nine to one one call, they
were in a mask. So at first people were thinking, oh,
we don't know the identity of who these people are
that beat this little boy to death because they had
masks on. So there was a ten thousand dollar reward
(06:23):
offered for information leading to unrest. However, these kids that
are all talking are the ones that were involved in
the beating, and they're so callous. They're saying, oh, my
mom wants it on the money because they were involved
in it, so if the mom turns in another kid,
they'll get the money. But all of these kids were involved,
and they were on top of him, punching him, hitting
(06:43):
him in fact, so he goes knock to the ground
and these guys were on top of him, dry humping him,
so simulating like sex or raping this body that was
on the ground. Now, which all these other kids, you know,
there were hundreds of kids at this party were watching
this happen. They're calling nine one one. They're trying to
get it stuff. They're scared because they'd seen guns. And
(07:04):
it really started because apparently one of the guys grabbed
a gold necklace off a girl there, just ripped it
off her and stole it, so Preston tried to get
it back. He wasn't fighting with these guys. He wasn't
saying bad things then was. He just tried to get
his friend's necklace back, like being a stand up gentleman
for his friend. And that's when they unleashed on him.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
The day Preston Lord, this teen boy dies, apparently another kid,
a rich brat with silver.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Spoon in his mouth.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Dad is multimillionaire dad Travis Renner goes to work.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
According to sources, I'd love to.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Hear from mister Renner if he would join us trying
to cover up his son's involvement. Take a listen to
Crime Onlines Dave Mack.
Speaker 10 (07:56):
The day Preston Lord passes away, Talon renders millionaire five.
Travis Renner goes to work trying to cover up the
teen's involvement. Renner and his business partner allegedly hand out
NDA's and push a story that, despite Talent Renner having
thrown the first punch, Talan Vigil was truly to blame
for Lord's death. Renner tells the school his son is
being bullied and whisks Talent away to his eight hundred
(08:18):
thousand dollars golf club cabin in show Low, Arizona for
a week while Talon's hands healed from the fight. Meanwhile,
Talon Renter brags to friends on Snapchat, I got in
a fight, a big group fight, and I accidentally killed
a kid. I guess I'm just too strong.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Joining me right now.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Board certified forensic pathologists, former medical examiner in Vegas. Never
lack a business there, doctor Gan Gorniac. Doctor Gorniac, I'm
gonna circle back to you about the injury sustained by
the boy, the dead boy. But what do you believe
they're talking about? After seeing so many dead bodies in
(08:59):
the morgue When we say that we.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Have been told informed the father kept.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
His son away for about a week till his quote
injuries healed.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
What are they talking about?
Speaker 7 (09:12):
So obviously, when you have any blunt injuries, that means
your body hits something or something hit your body. So
in this case of this young thug, he actually has
injuries on his hands because his hands hit something, unfortunately,
this young man's head, so he's going to have contusions
or bruises on his hands. So he's going to probably
(09:34):
take depending if he has any other cuts on his hand,
it's going to take some time for them to heal.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And under Gorniat, you have studied the case, what can
you tell us about the victim's injuries. I understand he
was beaten and kicked dead. He laid there on the
ground while all of these I guess friends frenemies beat
him dead, But what is the actual cause of death
in a case?
Speaker 7 (10:00):
In a case like this, it sounds like his injuries
are blunt first injuries of the head. He got hit
so hard with obviously fists. I'm not sure. When they're
beating him while he's down, does that mean also and
he kicks I'm not sure, But he has extensive head trauma,
so therefore he also has some bleeding within his brain.
(10:21):
So blood on your brain causes some swelling of your brain,
which is incompatible with life. And we heard that he
was unconscious at the scene, you know, right, after the
injuries occurred, so it sounds like he was hit so hard,
plus his head probably hit concrete, so that in combination
(10:44):
really caused some devastating injuries that caused him to go
on responsive immediately.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You know, I'm also curious and read Judy Cha. I'd
like you to address this. It's reminding me a little bit.
I know that you followed very closely the case of
high profile lawyout of South Carolina, Alexan Murdoga. He was
ultimately convicted in the double murder of his wife, Maggie
AND's son Paul. Immediately he tried to change the narrative.
(11:26):
What does that mean? That's the now talk of getting
someone to change their story, because right at the get go,
we've been told and again I welcome the multimillionaire dad
to come on and clear all this up. But apparently
Renner's a millionaire dad. Tristan Renner goes to work trying
(11:47):
to cover up his son's alleged involvement. Renner and his
business partner, Yeah, go ahead and rope in your buddy
in this allegedly hand out n DA's that's a non disclosure,
A great and push a story that the son, the
millionaire son Talon Renner, having thrown the first punch, that
(12:10):
the victim is truly to blame. Okay, I don't understand
that now claiming that his millionaire son has been bullied.
Wait when it's just that's completely bast awkwards. I mean,
can't you go to jail for witness tampering?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Ray?
Speaker 5 (12:26):
Well, Phoenix, Arizona's a big town, nancy, but they're going
to have to import lawyers from all over the country
for all the extra defendants, including parents and business associations,
potentially for the quote unquote changing the narrative slash cover up.
But what you're clearly trying to set up is a
self defense accident case that perhaps a fight broke out
(12:49):
between two young men over in a disagreement and a
young man fell and as a doctor said, get his
head on the back of the back of the head
on the concrete. And I'm my son may have struck him,
but there's a causation issue as to which blows cause
the fatality, again shaping the narrative, shaping their opening statement
(13:11):
for trial. But again there's going to be a lot
of this is a Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty
four for Metro Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
The Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty four. Hold On,
is that Gorniac? Yes, it is Gornia, doctor Gordiat. Hold
on before I lose my train of thought here, of course,
because I'm scared right now. Did you hear what Raymond
Judice just said? And he completely said it with a
straight face. Okay, this kid was beaten. He was down
(13:43):
on the ground, still being beaten, still being punched, until
he dies, he dies.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Why am I angry?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Because my son and my daughter are the same age
as this boy. They go to parties and you heard
you to cha put him up?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
You hear jud Chay, just spin it. He's spinning it.
You don't like what he says? I don't, But that's.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
What's gonna happen in court, and district attorney, you darn
well better be ready. Did you hear what he says?
Changing the narrative? What does that mean? Lying? That's what
changing the narrative means that now the victim fell. The
victim did not fall. He was punched, and we know,
(14:30):
according to witnesses, suit through the front first.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Punch he fell. And now we're gonna have a causation issue.
My rear end.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Gornier, you started this all right now, jud Cha picked
it up and ran with it. That he fell and
just died. He fell and died.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You know I've fallen a lot, a lot, running.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Chasing the children, being a cheerleader. This that I never
just died because I fell. But this is the spin out.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
This is a new recitation. History is being rewritten.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
By Gornia And you know, Gorniac, I always agree with
you and Judice. That's what's gonna happen at trial. Ray,
That's what's gonna happen at trial. What you just did.
Speaker 11 (15:20):
A tipster notifies police that Talon Renner admitted to a
friend that he threw the first punch. Owen Hines told
a friend he only kicked him in the stomach. Nearly
all the witnesses point out trust and Billy and Dominic
Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night.
Turner wore all black while Billy donned a white suit.
Using the suspects, digital media investigators find Taylor Sherman, who
(15:43):
admits to taking a video of Preston as he is
unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat.
Talan Vigil also sent a message reading I hit a
kid and this kid fell hit his head, then they
kicked his head in the ground. Then I got word
he died.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So idy k you were hearing Sidney Sumner from crime
Online And what stands out to me is that a
tipster notifies police that the millionaire juvenile tailor Renter admits
he throws the first punch and then it's a free
for all with this little boy being kicked and beaten dead.
(16:20):
Seven young men, including the high school football star Talent Renter,
aged seventeen, which is.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Important why is he in juvenile court, have been.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Charged in the brutal murder of teen boy Preston Lord.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Preston Lord.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
We are also learning that group violence by teens in
the Phoenix area is growing, and now there's a huge
wave of public of citizens demanding justice that there is
not two tier justice, one for the rich man and
(16:59):
one for the poor man. But that's what it seems
to be shaping up as after local law enforcement give
Preston give Talent Renter's parents special valet parking for their
tesla at the courthouse, then they had to backtrack and
apologize out that's embarrassing. But right now, instead of discussing
(17:24):
the dad's tesla, let me bring back in doctor Jan Gorniac,
a renowned medical examiner and high profile lawyer in the
Atlanta jurisdiction Raymond Judicia dodgor Gorniac, you were clarifying your analysis.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
What were you saying, well, listening to mister Raymond about
possibly saying that it was the fall and not the
punch that caused his death. In our forensic world, we
use the butt for the butt for the punch. He
wouldn't have fallen.
Speaker 9 (17:55):
And hit his head.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
I've had cases where someone swung and missed and fell
and ended up dying and that's still ruled a homicide.
So I understand what the defense might come in and
try to say, but from where I sit, that's still
a homicide just because I mean, but for a punch,
he wouldn't have just fallen and hit his head. It
(18:17):
wasn't like he tripped and fell down the stairs. Something
contacted his head to cause him to fall. So that's why,
no matter what they come in and say, this would
still be ruled a homicide from the medical examiner's standpoint.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Okay, you're right, doctor gorniac.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But somebody like Raymond Giudice is going to take that
thread and run with it till your whole sweater is
nothing but a pile of yarn.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It's gonna be all over It's.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Like a pack of cats tore it up. Because you're
absolutely correct. This boy would not be on the ground
dying if that first punch had not been thrown.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
There's your butt. Four.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
He's going to argue at trial, Yeah, he threw the
first punch, but he didn't kill him. Well, this is
what I would say, is a prosecutor. They're all going
in the same pot to stew. Nobody's getting a plea.
Everybody is going to trial for murder. Because I want you, Jerry,
(19:22):
to think what it would be like lying on the floor,
the ground, the pavement, looking up at all these faces.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And halloween masks.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
This bizarre scenario when you're taking a blow to the head,
a kick to the kidney so vicious, you end up
dying and the last thing you see is this gang
of animals over you, dressed in these halloween outfits, kicking
(19:56):
and beating you dead. Oh hell no, nobody is getting
a plea.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
All right, go ahead, Ray Well, I.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Agree with the doctor. She's an expert. But the argument
that I made, which I believe we will have expert
testimony to, will at least allow number one, a lesser
included charge of involuntary manslaughter to a jury. Okay, that's
number one. And you know how critical that is. It
(20:28):
allows a jury to find for a lesser included charge.
It allows a defense to argue that in closing. And
I'll bet you dimes to dollars, Nancy, one of these
young men's going to take a plea, and now you
know how it works.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
They're not taking a plea unless I offer a plea.
You can't take a plea that has to have been offered.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
They'll take a plea. You wait and see someone's going
to offer it.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Now.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
I know you. You might not offer it, and I agree,
I understand how you would play it. But I guarantee
you close to trial, somebody's gonna roll. Some is going
to come up and be a state's witness so they
can get that murder conviction that you want.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Now, I want a murder conviction on everybody that laid
a hand or a foot on this boy that touched
a hair on his head.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I want them all.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I would not be happy with just one, and I
don't want the rich kid to be the scapegoat. They're
all part of this, and you know it's so great
about it. They were taking videos, These jackasses technical legal phrase,
they're taking videos, bringing in Julie Lewis, digital forensic expert,
(21:40):
President CEO of Digital Mountain Ink. Julie, if anything can
make me happy about this scenario, it's the advent of
a cell phone.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
They're all taking videos.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Now, how do you think a jury is going to
react to a gang attack on a single victim already down, unarmed?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Not good? Not good.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
Those smartphones have a ton of digital evidence. In this case.
They're using Snapchat as their messaging app for pictures and messages,
and there's a lot of other things like Instagram, social
media online that could be looked at. We do that
all the time. We do open source intelligence investigations with kids.
They have no filter these messages. Also, you have to
(22:29):
get them quickly because a lot of these are ephemeral
applications like Snapchat. If you do a snap, it'll disappear
by default immediately unless the user changes it to holding
a message for twenty four hours or not at all Jilie.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yes, that was my next question because all the time
my twins are want, well, I got so so snapchat.
I'm like, show me, I know what's gone. I don't
know if they're just telling me that yeah, or if.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
It really is gone.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Can they retrieve a snapchat? Can it be retrieved by
LA law enforcement?
Speaker 8 (23:06):
So law enforcement has access to be able to see
more on the phones than we can on the commercial side.
It's called a physical image, and in that they may
be those those databases could be decryptive.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay, you've already lost me. Is that a yes or
a no?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Cans you're saying yes, I can retrieve a snapchat.
Speaker 8 (23:27):
I'm going to give you a lawyer answer. It depends.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Listen, I'm a lawyer. I can try a murder case
doing what you're doing. They didn't teach me that in
criminal law. So I just need a black and white.
Is there a chance I can get those snaps back?
Speaker 8 (23:40):
It's possible. So it's similar to having a camera in
your office that's randomly taking screenshots. There are parts of
the phone that store things in something called memory, and
so it depends.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Okay, you know what I'm going to have to work
with you, as I've told many a witness, because you're
not helping me right now, all right, I got a
narrative this thing down and get an answer that when
I say a jury will understand, I mean that I
will understand. And quick question alexis truest and I want
Juliet Lewis to hear that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Julie Lewis to hear this.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
It's not just the snaps, Alexis. These jackasses bragged they
sent texts back and forth. Okay, that's the first time
I've seen that smirk.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Wiped off Juda Jay's face.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Because now is it true that there are that there
are not just snaps which can disappear, but there are texts.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Yes, text messages where the kids are saying, I hit
the kid. He hit his head. The other kids jumped
on the ground. I think he died. Another one, Talon Renner, says,
I got in a fight with a kid.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I hit him.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
I think he died. I didn't even know my own strength.
Another kid writes, bro that kid died. They know it,
and they're saying also, one of them said, do not
delete the video because you can use that and you
get ten thousand dollars this is the ten thousand dollars
the FBI announced as a reward is you can use
that and you can get the money. So they're all
(25:08):
admitting they knew that there was video of this murder.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Bragging.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Did I just hear Alexis Tereschuk say bragging and deleting evidence?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Did I hear that was somebody bragging?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And did someone ask for everyone to delete or not
delete evidence?
Speaker 6 (25:29):
They were bragging to each other. They were messaging each other,
not just pictures on Snapchat, messaging each other. They and
then another kid wrote to the kid that had the video,
who had taken video at the fight, and said, dude,
don't delete that video because you can get ten thousand
dollars because the police had offered a reward for it.
So they're saying, your video could be given as evidence
(25:51):
and then you could win, not win, you can get
the reward of money. So they are clearly stating there
is video of the murder and that they should not
delete it because it can be used to help them
get money. No, oh, this is going to help our
friend go to jail. This is going to take the
bad guys out, But you're going to get money. You're
going to cash in on this.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
You know what, the jury is going to have a
bad taste in their mouth about all of these guys.
That is why defendants very often will seek a severance.
In other words, they want to be tried separately from
each other. But if it's not a death penalty case
and there are no interlocking statements where one defendant brings
(26:31):
blames the other defendant, if the state doesn't use those,
these guys are going to be tried together.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Why is that significant?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Because let's just pretend Alexis and I rob a bank
and I blame Alexis, because of course it's going to
be her fault. If we're tried together, she won't be
able to cross examine me on me blaming her because
I'm certainly not going to take the stand. No way
that denies her under the sixth of Men of her
(27:01):
right to confront the state's witnesses. Even though I'm a
defendant and a bank robbery, I'm still a state's witness.
So if the state chooses not to use those interlocking confessions,
then they can be tried together. And what I advise
to the state, not that they care what I think,
but don't use the statements.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
You don't need them, You've got video people try them
all together again. Stu in the same pot.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I want to address to Julie Lewis, digital forensics expert
CEO Digital Mountain.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
What about what Alexis just told us that.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
A lot of these communications were not a picture, which
is normally what Snapchat is.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
But a written message. How about those? Please give me
a yes note, do not go into digital land. Just
tell me. Can I get those messages back? Okay? Well,
oh here she goes, go ahead.
Speaker 8 (27:57):
Well, I just want to educate a little bit. Apps
can be snaps, video and pictures, and then there's chats
which are also on Snapchat, and it's Snapchat is meant
to delete things fairly quickly, so snaps are usually a
media fault in the chats are within twenty four hours.
But don't forget about the need of message on the
(28:19):
phone as well. So there's all these different messaging apps
that teenagers use, and you got to look at them
all because there could be more evidence there and the
photos and pictures and all sorts of stuff that are
your treasure trove.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
What is a native message?
Speaker 8 (28:32):
That's what's the messaging app on the phone that comes
pre installed. That's not a third party out.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Okay, so you mean like it's not Snap, So the
phone itself may contain evidence. Okay, let's see our defense
attorney expert, Raymond Judice. So you know all that stuff
you were saying, let me get in my notes. I
think I threw them away. All your theory about oh,
he just fell and just died because he fell, And
(29:01):
what did you say? Oh, I've got to find there's
going to be a quote causation issue, a causation issue.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Translation.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
The defense is going to claim that the beating inflicted
by these seven people is not why the guy died.
This little boy died because he fell. All right, that's
where he's going. But what about the videos? What about
the text messages? What about the messages via Snap? And
as Julie said, the message is native to the phone.
(29:31):
That don't just disappear on a third party app. You
think you might be in a little hot water.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Now it's the timeline. You're going to start with those
nine to one one recordings and you're going to move,
as our legal technical out and expert just stated, all
of these emails and text messages and photos will have
a time stamp, and a good prosecutor is going to
surgically one after another set out the time frame. Quite frankly,
(29:58):
the prosecutor and the team's bigg problem maybe having too
many texts and statements coming from who knows who. But again,
sometimes Nancy, when there's not a severance and you've got
seven co defendants with high priced legal counsel, confusion. I
hate to use it, but that's part of the defense strategy.
(30:19):
It wasn't me who punched him that caused the death causation.
It's co defendant Johnson who kicked him in the stomach
that caused the death. And that's what you're going to
see at trial. One quick thing, One quick thing. I
think they're all going to be treated as adults and
tried and as you call it, big boycourt. However, the
(30:39):
option of taking a defendant, a co defendant and treating
him as a juvenile is a very enticing situation for
a plea bargain. Keep that in mind.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
That's interesting because I've never been enticed ever to allow
a killer to play it out in genesis. I'm not
happy about the situation, but I did try a thirteen
year old for murder in adult court.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Did I like it?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Was in my duty? Yes?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Did he get convicted? Yes, because he jumped into a
pawn shop, stole a handful of dolt ropes gold chain,
shot three people, killing one and leaving the other one
in a wheelchair in a colostomy back for the rest
of his life. Hell no, he's not being treated as
a juvenile. That said, I've never heard of too much
(31:31):
evidence for the state, But thank you for floating another
defense theory.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining me.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
The woman who made the initial nine to one one
call tried to get help for the teen boy victim.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Listen to her nine to one one call.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Can we please get an officer at the corner of
one hundred and ninety seventh Place in Dada Palmers. There
is gotta be at least two hundred and fifty kiss here.
You're walking the streets. We're not used to this. I'm
not used to this in my neighborhood for being here
twenty five years. There's too many cars.
Speaker 8 (32:16):
These kids are gonna hit each other.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Someone's gonna get hurt, someone's gonna get it.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
With us an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now? About the death of Preston Lord,
a teen boy beaten dead. But first I want to
go to Gina Pintello, the neighbor who called nine one one.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Gina, it's amazing that you called.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Nine one one and that you're joining us tonight, because
you know what, I've learned that the majority of people
I don't get it, don't do anything. They stand by
and watch or the video with their cell phone while
somebody is either raped or assaulted or murdered. But you didn't.
(33:08):
And I want to start with that and say thank you. Jana,
tell me what happened that night.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, I appreciate that, and forgive my emotion and listening
to that and hearing you it brings back that evening.
But we live at the entrance of the subdivision, and
there were dozens upon dozens upon dozens of cars parked
back to back every side of the street coming in
and out of the subdivision. Teenagers, large groups of teenagers
(33:38):
walking everywhere, you know, in a normally quiet neighborhood. It
was kind of shocking to walk out and see it's
kind of mass crowd forming and coming in and out
of the subdivision. My husband and I immediately said we
might want to call the police. And as soon as
we're saying that, we see the police actually come into
the subdivision. Within another five to ten minutes, we watched
(34:00):
the police circle the block and leaf, and you immediately
started teenes just continued to fill the neighborhood. You could
clearly see students or children walking with bottles cans, appear
to be intoxicated. Some were yelling, you know, and then we.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Started to see accidents yelling.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
You know, they were yelling things like, h don't get
drunk kids, you know, just appearing intoxicated and holding what
looked like cans up in the air, you know. So
you could see this was starting to get rowdy as
in the streets. And then within a few minutes of that,
you started we started seeing accidents. So now they're jam
(34:42):
packed in this neighborhood. Some are trying to get in
and out of the subdivision. You can't even turn off
the main road, and they start rear ending one another.
They might hop out quickly look and then they're driving
away from these accidents. We hear another accident down the road,
and then within seconds we start seeing groups of teams
jumping over our back fence or coming out of our backyard,
(35:05):
jumping into our front yard, running into cars, and I said,
this is getting out of control. H We've got to
call nine one one, and that's and we need the
police back here. And that's when I made my call.
And when I made that call, I didn't know at
the same time the attack on Preston and the other
young boys was taking place. At that scene exact time with.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Me is Gina Pigntello who was speaking out, a boy
is dead. And can I tell you, Preston Lord, is
the age of my twins, their whole life in front
of them. But instead of graduating from high school and
(35:49):
going on all these college tours I've got planned for them,
it's over for him. And it's not just him that's gone.
It's hopes, their dreams, all their energy, all their love,
all their money into their boy. Preston Lord. When did
(36:10):
you learn, Gina Pintello, that a boy had been essentially
stopped dead in your neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Yeah, my neighbors and I actually didn't learn the details
until Monday. So this occurred Saturday evening and we didn't
learn the details until Monday. You know, we began kind
of neighbors sharing text and the gofund me, Oh my goodness,
this poor young man is fighting for his life. And
then within a few hours we learned that that he
(36:41):
had died. Yeah, just we could have never you know, imagined.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
The parents were in it was their super Bowl, their
son was coming into his own all those years of
love and nurturing, and now this when you learned about
what happened to Jana?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
What were you told? Did everybody know who did it?
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Pretty immediately I like to call them the kind of
parents of the East Valley began sharing and setting up
We've heard these names, We've seen these snapchat messages. Groups
started forming because we were getting no answers. But I
can tell you within those first few days, that first week,
(37:31):
the names we saw that were arrested were the same
names we saw within those first few days we heard
about the families like the Renters taking their son to
hide him up in the mountains, to hide injuries. These
parents that began gathering all this information, much of what
was in the police report released just last week. We
(37:51):
were learning and had and we're getting videos within that
first week of this incident happening.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
And joining me now esteemed forensic psychologists, Doctor Sherry Schwartz.
She specializes in capital mitigation and victim advocacy. You can
find her at Panthermitigation dot com and she's the author.
She literally wrote the book on criminal Behavior and another
(38:17):
book where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank
you for being with us. I was saying at the beginning,
doctor Sherry, And I'm sure you can say much more
eloquently than I can. People do things in a group
they wouldn't normally do on their own.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
On their own, do I care?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
No?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I care that this boy is dead and million the
millionaire at defendant's father has been hiding him out, and
a million dollar golf cabin. There's such a thing as
flight after a crime, where you hide from law enforcement.
That never looks good. But can I talk to you?
Oh there, oooh that is nice. I want to talk
(38:57):
to you about the group mentality here and whether it
actually relates anyone a responsibility.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Well.
Speaker 12 (39:04):
I work, also, Nancy, on a lot of juvenile direct
file cases. When I say direct file, basically what I
mean is they're charged as an adult, and in my experience, no,
it doesn't absolve them of legal responsibility. I think people
can argue it doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility. I
expect that some super lawyers like Ray Jiudice will come
(39:26):
forth with arguments about juvenile brain and how their brain
isn't fully developed, and this can account for some of
the behavior. And there's group dynamics at work as well,
such as mob mentality. There's always at least one or
two leaders. The larger the group, the less informed the
fringe members are. But they go along, they conform with
(39:47):
the behavior. But still at the end of the day,
under the legal system, in my experience, this doesn't really
much matter. They're going to be held accountable, just the
same as the person that starts.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
You know, I've told myself a million times because it's easy,
that my fiancee Keith didn't feel anything.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
When he was dying.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
He was shot five times in the face and the
neck and the head, and I like to believe that,
but I know inside.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's not true. He had to feel at least the
first bullet. He had to know something horrible was happening.
This is a teen.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Boy, Preston Lord is dead and he's never coming back,
and so help me God in heaven, there will be justice.
Let us stop and remember an American hero, Sergeant Nevada Crinky.
He was shot dead end of Watch at just thirty
(40:56):
three years old. Sheridan Wyoming father, a US veteran eight
years of service in Afghanistan. He survived by his wife,
Carla and his baby daughter, Bella. Nevada CREENK Nancy Gray
signing off goodbye friend
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Did an Arizona multi millionaire cover up his son's involvement
in murder?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Did his teen boy take part in.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Brutally beating another boy dead, kicking, beating until the boy
lie there unconscious and dies. Why did cops have to
apologize for allowing the multimillionaire dad's car to be valeted
(00:46):
when this goes to court?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
What is happening? Does this guy really believe because he's.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
A multi millionaire he's somehow above the law. Because I
got news for you, You're not, see Grace.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
What happened the night of that fateful party? A group
of teens getting together at Halloween party?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
How can it go so wrong?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I'm gonna I'm at a party and a bunch of
people are with.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
The guns and jump my friend and he's knocked.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Out on the ground. He's been unconscious for like two minutes.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
We need people over here.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Okay, I'm let and then started, okay, don't hang up
to stay on the line with me.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
You are hearing the nine to one one call from
the night This young boy was beaten and kicked brutally
until he dies. We've got an all star panel. But
first I want to go out to veteran criminal defense attorney,
high profile lawyer in inter city Atlanta, Raymond Judice at
rayglaw dot com. Ray as you know you as a
(02:06):
defense attorney, me as a prosecutor.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
The first thing I would like to do when.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I struck a jury is play the nine to one
one call, because witnesses can tell their version on the stand,
but there's nothing like what happened at the moment.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Agree, disagree, totally agree.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
It's how you're going to open up your opening statement
to a jury. It also sets your timeline for the
events that will occur both at the scene and post investigation.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, you're right, and the first thing you want to
do is set up the timeline.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Speaking of the nine to one one call.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
In front of a jury, I would play it straight
out all the way through.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Now, listen to more of that nine to one one call.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Listen, do you know the people that did this? Are
they still there? I don't know if they left, so
they're still here.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
I got out there as quick as possible, so I
need to get her. I don't know the people that
are here.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
We don't have any beef with them or any things.
Do you know did you see the people that assaulted them?
Did you see them well enough to get any description
or did you not see it?
Speaker 6 (03:10):
Actually?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
How they all had they all had masks on, and
it was how many?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Was it a lot?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
It's like four or five or more like fifteen? Okay,
this is.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Every parent's worst nightmare, group or gang mentality. Uh, the
first case I ever had like this At that time,
I called it wilding. When young people or people in
general do things as part of a pack that they
would never do on their own.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Take a listen to more of that nine to one
one call.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
There's not a weak enough Well I know one, I know,
I know.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
We're getting on.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
You have a you have ali yourself, did all the stuff?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Are you still there?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I'm still here. Did you say your friend has a
whole snow?
Speaker 7 (04:09):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Okay, that's good. My god, dude, I'm so dead. Okay,
they're here.
Speaker 8 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
You can hear the police arriving in the background, and
you hear the callers and the teams gathered around what
would soon be a dead body saying I am so dead.
They're worried about themselves being in trouble. And it's amazing
to me. I'm about to go to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime
online dot Com investigative reporter. It's amazing to me that
(04:46):
within hours, literally hours of this team boy just sixteen
years old, and you know, Alexis, this is the age
of my John, David and Lucy. Within hours of him
being pronounced dead, people were already trying to get money.
Listen to the call parton Crime Online.
Speaker 9 (05:07):
As Preston Lord lays unconscious on the pavement, friends determine
his heart has stopped. Other partygoers perform CPR until police
arrive and take over. Lord is taken by ambulance to
Chandler Regional Hospital, then transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely
critical condition with a severe brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs
(05:29):
to his injuries. For those involved, Lord's death is fodder
for social media, some trying to figure out how to
cash in on the reward money offered for information about
what happened. The suspects discuss the fight over Snapchat, with
one of the messages reading my mom once in on
the ten thousand dollars. These messages are some of the
(05:51):
first real clues police begin to follow.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I don't understand Alexis Treschuk. Within hours after this boy
is pronounced dead, people are trying to get thousands of dollars.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
How is that?
Speaker 6 (06:02):
So the police offered a reward, a ten thousand dollars
reward for any information about this case because, as the
kids said on the nine to one one call, they
were in a mask. So at first people were thinking, oh,
we don't know the identity of who these people are
that beat this little boy to death because they had
masks on. So there was a ten thousand dollar reward
(06:23):
offered for information leading to unrest. However, these kids that
are all talking are the ones that were involved in
the beating, and they're so callous. They're saying, oh, my
mom wants it on the money because they were involved
in it, so if the mom turns in another kid,
they'll get the money. But all of these kids were involved,
and they were on top of him, punching him, hitting
(06:43):
him in fact, so he goes knock to the ground
and these guys were on top of him, dry humping him,
so simulating like sex or raping this body that was
on the ground. Now, which all these other kids, you know,
there were hundreds of kids at this party were watching
this happen. They're calling nine one one. They're trying to
get it stuff. They're scared because they'd seen guns. And
(07:04):
it really started because apparently one of the guys grabbed
a gold necklace off a girl there, just ripped it
off her and stole it, so Preston tried to get
it back. He wasn't fighting with these guys. He wasn't
saying bad things then was. He just tried to get
his friend's necklace back, like being a stand up gentleman
for his friend. And that's when they unleashed on him.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
The day Preston Lord, this teen boy dies, apparently another kid,
a rich brat with silver.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Spoon in his mouth.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Dad is multimillionaire dad Travis Renner goes to work.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
According to sources, I'd love to.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Hear from mister Renner if he would join us trying
to cover up his son's involvement. Take a listen to
Crime Onlines Dave Mack.
Speaker 10 (07:56):
The day Preston Lord passes away, Talon renders millionaire five.
Travis Renner goes to work trying to cover up the
teen's involvement. Renner and his business partner allegedly hand out
NDA's and push a story that, despite Talent Renner having
thrown the first punch, Talan Vigil was truly to blame
for Lord's death. Renner tells the school his son is
being bullied and whisks Talent away to his eight hundred
(08:18):
thousand dollars golf club cabin in show Low, Arizona for
a week while Talon's hands healed from the fight. Meanwhile,
Talon Renter brags to friends on Snapchat, I got in
a fight, a big group fight, and I accidentally killed
a kid. I guess I'm just too strong.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Joining me right now.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Board certified forensic pathologists, former medical examiner in Vegas. Never
lack a business there, doctor Gan Gorniac. Doctor Gorniac, I'm
gonna circle back to you about the injury sustained by
the boy, the dead boy. But what do you believe
they're talking about? After seeing so many dead bodies in
(08:59):
the morgue When we say that we.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Have been told informed the father kept.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
His son away for about a week till his quote
injuries healed.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
What are they talking about?
Speaker 7 (09:12):
So obviously, when you have any blunt injuries, that means
your body hits something or something hit your body. So
in this case of this young thug, he actually has
injuries on his hands because his hands hit something, unfortunately,
this young man's head, so he's going to have contusions
or bruises on his hands. So he's going to probably
(09:34):
take depending if he has any other cuts on his hand,
it's going to take some time for them to heal.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And under Gorniat, you have studied the case, what can
you tell us about the victim's injuries. I understand he
was beaten and kicked dead. He laid there on the
ground while all of these I guess friends frenemies beat
him dead, But what is the actual cause of death
in a case?
Speaker 7 (10:00):
In a case like this, it sounds like his injuries
are blunt first injuries of the head. He got hit
so hard with obviously fists. I'm not sure. When they're
beating him while he's down, does that mean also and
he kicks I'm not sure, But he has extensive head trauma,
so therefore he also has some bleeding within his brain.
(10:21):
So blood on your brain causes some swelling of your brain,
which is incompatible with life. And we heard that he
was unconscious at the scene, you know, right, after the
injuries occurred, so it sounds like he was hit so hard,
plus his head probably hit concrete, so that in combination
(10:44):
really caused some devastating injuries that caused him to go
on responsive immediately.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
You know, I'm also curious and read Judy Cha. I'd
like you to address this. It's reminding me a little bit.
I know that you followed very closely the case of
high profile lawyout of South Carolina, Alexan Murdoga. He was
ultimately convicted in the double murder of his wife, Maggie
AND's son Paul. Immediately he tried to change the narrative.
(11:26):
What does that mean? That's the now talk of getting
someone to change their story, because right at the get go,
we've been told and again I welcome the multimillionaire dad
to come on and clear all this up. But apparently
Renner's a millionaire dad. Tristan Renner goes to work trying
(11:47):
to cover up his son's alleged involvement. Renner and his
business partner, Yeah, go ahead and rope in your buddy
in this allegedly hand out n DA's that's a non disclosure,
A great and push a story that the son, the
millionaire son Talon Renner, having thrown the first punch, that
(12:10):
the victim is truly to blame. Okay, I don't understand
that now claiming that his millionaire son has been bullied.
Wait when it's just that's completely bast awkwards. I mean,
can't you go to jail for witness tampering?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Ray?
Speaker 5 (12:26):
Well, Phoenix, Arizona's a big town, nancy, but they're going
to have to import lawyers from all over the country
for all the extra defendants, including parents and business associations,
potentially for the quote unquote changing the narrative slash cover up.
But what you're clearly trying to set up is a
self defense accident case that perhaps a fight broke out
(12:49):
between two young men over in a disagreement and a
young man fell and as a doctor said, get his
head on the back of the back of the head
on the concrete. And I'm my son may have struck him,
but there's a causation issue as to which blows cause
the fatality, again shaping the narrative, shaping their opening statement
(13:11):
for trial. But again there's going to be a lot
of this is a Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty
four for Metro Phoenix.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
The Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty four. Hold On,
is that Gorniac? Yes, it is Gornia, doctor Gordiat. Hold
on before I lose my train of thought here, of course,
because I'm scared right now. Did you hear what Raymond
Judice just said? And he completely said it with a
straight face. Okay, this kid was beaten. He was down
(13:43):
on the ground, still being beaten, still being punched, until
he dies, he dies.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Why am I angry?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Because my son and my daughter are the same age
as this boy. They go to parties and you heard
you to cha put him up?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
You hear jud Chay, just spin it. He's spinning it.
You don't like what he says? I don't, But that's.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
What's gonna happen in court, and district attorney, you darn
well better be ready. Did you hear what he says?
Changing the narrative? What does that mean? Lying? That's what
changing the narrative means that now the victim fell. The
victim did not fall. He was punched, and we know,
(14:30):
according to witnesses, suit through the front first.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Punch he fell. And now we're gonna have a causation issue.
My rear end.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Gornier, you started this all right now, jud Cha picked
it up and ran with it. That he fell and
just died. He fell and died.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You know I've fallen a lot, a lot, running.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Chasing the children, being a cheerleader. This that I never
just died because I fell. But this is the spin out.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
This is a new recitation. History is being rewritten.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
By Gornia And you know, Gorniac, I always agree with
you and Judice. That's what's gonna happen at trial. Ray,
That's what's gonna happen at trial. What you just did.
Speaker 11 (15:20):
A tipster notifies police that Talon Renner admitted to a
friend that he threw the first punch. Owen Hines told
a friend he only kicked him in the stomach. Nearly
all the witnesses point out trust and Billy and Dominic
Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night.
Turner wore all black while Billy donned a white suit.
Using the suspects, digital media investigators find Taylor Sherman, who
(15:43):
admits to taking a video of Preston as he is
unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat.
Talan Vigil also sent a message reading I hit a
kid and this kid fell hit his head, then they
kicked his head in the ground. Then I got word
he died.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So idy k you were hearing Sidney Sumner from crime
Online And what stands out to me is that a
tipster notifies police that the millionaire juvenile tailor Renter admits
he throws the first punch and then it's a free
for all with this little boy being kicked and beaten dead.
(16:20):
Seven young men, including the high school football star Talent Renter,
aged seventeen, which is.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Important why is he in juvenile court, have been.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Charged in the brutal murder of teen boy Preston Lord.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Preston Lord.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
We are also learning that group violence by teens in
the Phoenix area is growing, and now there's a huge
wave of public of citizens demanding justice that there is
not two tier justice, one for the rich man and
(16:59):
one for the poor man. But that's what it seems
to be shaping up as after local law enforcement give
Preston give Talent Renter's parents special valet parking for their
tesla at the courthouse, then they had to backtrack and
apologize out that's embarrassing. But right now, instead of discussing
(17:24):
the dad's tesla, let me bring back in doctor Jan Gorniac,
a renowned medical examiner and high profile lawyer in the
Atlanta jurisdiction Raymond Judicia dodgor Gorniac, you were clarifying your analysis.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
What were you saying, well, listening to mister Raymond about
possibly saying that it was the fall and not the
punch that caused his death. In our forensic world, we
use the butt for the butt for the punch. He
wouldn't have fallen.
Speaker 9 (17:55):
And hit his head.
Speaker 7 (17:56):
I've had cases where someone swung and missed and fell
and ended up dying and that's still ruled a homicide.
So I understand what the defense might come in and
try to say, but from where I sit, that's still
a homicide just because I mean, but for a punch,
he wouldn't have just fallen and hit his head. It
(18:17):
wasn't like he tripped and fell down the stairs. Something
contacted his head to cause him to fall. So that's why,
no matter what they come in and say, this would
still be ruled a homicide from the medical examiner's standpoint.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Okay, you're right, doctor gorniac.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But somebody like Raymond Giudice is going to take that
thread and run with it till your whole sweater is
nothing but a pile of yarn.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
It's gonna be all over It's.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Like a pack of cats tore it up. Because you're
absolutely correct. This boy would not be on the ground
dying if that first punch had not been thrown.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
There's your butt. Four.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
He's going to argue at trial, Yeah, he threw the
first punch, but he didn't kill him. Well, this is
what I would say, is a prosecutor. They're all going
in the same pot to stew. Nobody's getting a plea.
Everybody is going to trial for murder. Because I want you, Jerry,
(19:22):
to think what it would be like lying on the floor,
the ground, the pavement, looking up at all these faces.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And halloween masks.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
This bizarre scenario when you're taking a blow to the head,
a kick to the kidney so vicious, you end up
dying and the last thing you see is this gang
of animals over you, dressed in these halloween outfits, kicking
(19:56):
and beating you dead. Oh hell no, nobody is getting
a plea.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
All right, go ahead, Ray Well, I.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Agree with the doctor. She's an expert. But the argument
that I made, which I believe we will have expert
testimony to, will at least allow number one, a lesser
included charge of involuntary manslaughter to a jury. Okay, that's
number one. And you know how critical that is. It
(20:28):
allows a jury to find for a lesser included charge.
It allows a defense to argue that in closing. And
I'll bet you dimes to dollars, Nancy, one of these
young men's going to take a plea, and now you
know how it works.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
They're not taking a plea unless I offer a plea.
You can't take a plea that has to have been offered.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
They'll take a plea. You wait and see someone's going
to offer it.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Now.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
I know you. You might not offer it, and I agree,
I understand how you would play it. But I guarantee
you close to trial, somebody's gonna roll. Some is going
to come up and be a state's witness so they
can get that murder conviction that you want.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Now, I want a murder conviction on everybody that laid
a hand or a foot on this boy that touched
a hair on his head.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I want them all.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I would not be happy with just one, and I
don't want the rich kid to be the scapegoat. They're
all part of this, and you know it's so great
about it. They were taking videos, These jackasses technical legal phrase,
they're taking videos, bringing in Julie Lewis, digital forensic expert,
(21:40):
President CEO of Digital Mountain Ink. Julie, if anything can
make me happy about this scenario, it's the advent of
a cell phone.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
They're all taking videos.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Now, how do you think a jury is going to
react to a gang attack on a single victim already down, unarmed?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Not good? Not good.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
Those smartphones have a ton of digital evidence. In this case.
They're using Snapchat as their messaging app for pictures and messages,
and there's a lot of other things like Instagram, social
media online that could be looked at. We do that
all the time. We do open source intelligence investigations with kids.
They have no filter these messages. Also, you have to
(22:29):
get them quickly because a lot of these are ephemeral
applications like Snapchat. If you do a snap, it'll disappear
by default immediately unless the user changes it to holding
a message for twenty four hours or not at all Jilie.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yes, that was my next question because all the time
my twins are want, well, I got so so snapchat.
I'm like, show me, I know what's gone. I don't
know if they're just telling me that yeah, or if.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
It really is gone.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Can they retrieve a snapchat? Can it be retrieved by
LA law enforcement?
Speaker 8 (23:06):
So law enforcement has access to be able to see
more on the phones than we can on the commercial side.
It's called a physical image, and in that they may
be those those databases could be decryptive.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Okay, you've already lost me. Is that a yes or
a no?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Cans you're saying yes, I can retrieve a snapchat.
Speaker 8 (23:27):
I'm going to give you a lawyer answer. It depends.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Listen, I'm a lawyer. I can try a murder case
doing what you're doing. They didn't teach me that in
criminal law. So I just need a black and white.
Is there a chance I can get those snaps back?
Speaker 8 (23:40):
It's possible. So it's similar to having a camera in
your office that's randomly taking screenshots. There are parts of
the phone that store things in something called memory, and
so it depends.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Okay, you know what I'm going to have to work
with you, as I've told many a witness, because you're
not helping me right now, all right, I got a
narrative this thing down and get an answer that when
I say a jury will understand, I mean that I
will understand. And quick question alexis truest and I want
Juliet Lewis to hear that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Julie Lewis to hear this.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
It's not just the snaps, Alexis. These jackasses bragged they
sent texts back and forth. Okay, that's the first time
I've seen that smirk.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Wiped off Juda Jay's face.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Because now is it true that there are that there
are not just snaps which can disappear, but there are texts.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Yes, text messages where the kids are saying, I hit
the kid. He hit his head. The other kids jumped
on the ground. I think he died. Another one, Talon Renner, says,
I got in a fight with a kid.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I hit him.
Speaker 6 (24:46):
I think he died. I didn't even know my own strength.
Another kid writes, bro that kid died. They know it,
and they're saying also, one of them said, do not
delete the video because you can use that and you
get ten thousand dollars this is the ten thousand dollars
the FBI announced as a reward is you can use
that and you can get the money. So they're all
(25:08):
admitting they knew that there was video of this murder.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Bragging.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Did I just hear Alexis Tereschuk say bragging and deleting evidence?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Did I hear that was somebody bragging?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And did someone ask for everyone to delete or not
delete evidence?
Speaker 6 (25:29):
They were bragging to each other. They were messaging each other,
not just pictures on Snapchat, messaging each other. They and
then another kid wrote to the kid that had the video,
who had taken video at the fight, and said, dude,
don't delete that video because you can get ten thousand
dollars because the police had offered a reward for it.
So they're saying, your video could be given as evidence
(25:51):
and then you could win, not win, you can get
the reward of money. So they are clearly stating there
is video of the murder and that they should not
delete it because it can be used to help them
get money. No, oh, this is going to help our
friend go to jail. This is going to take the
bad guys out, But you're going to get money. You're
going to cash in on this.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
You know what, the jury is going to have a
bad taste in their mouth about all of these guys.
That is why defendants very often will seek a severance.
In other words, they want to be tried separately from
each other. But if it's not a death penalty case
and there are no interlocking statements where one defendant brings
(26:31):
blames the other defendant, if the state doesn't use those,
these guys are going to be tried together.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Why is that significant?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Because let's just pretend Alexis and I rob a bank
and I blame Alexis, because of course it's going to
be her fault. If we're tried together, she won't be
able to cross examine me on me blaming her because
I'm certainly not going to take the stand. No way
that denies her under the sixth of Men of her
(27:01):
right to confront the state's witnesses. Even though I'm a
defendant and a bank robbery, I'm still a state's witness.
So if the state chooses not to use those interlocking confessions,
then they can be tried together. And what I advise
to the state, not that they care what I think,
but don't use the statements.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
You don't need them, You've got video people try them
all together again. Stu in the same pot.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I want to address to Julie Lewis, digital forensics expert
CEO Digital Mountain.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
What about what Alexis just told us that.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
A lot of these communications were not a picture, which
is normally what Snapchat is.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
But a written message. How about those? Please give me
a yes note, do not go into digital land. Just
tell me. Can I get those messages back? Okay? Well,
oh here she goes, go ahead.
Speaker 8 (27:57):
Well, I just want to educate a little bit. Apps
can be snaps, video and pictures, and then there's chats
which are also on Snapchat, and it's Snapchat is meant
to delete things fairly quickly, so snaps are usually a
media fault in the chats are within twenty four hours.
But don't forget about the need of message on the
(28:19):
phone as well. So there's all these different messaging apps
that teenagers use, and you got to look at them
all because there could be more evidence there and the
photos and pictures and all sorts of stuff that are
your treasure trove.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
What is a native message?
Speaker 8 (28:32):
That's what's the messaging app on the phone that comes
pre installed. That's not a third party out.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Okay, so you mean like it's not Snap, So the
phone itself may contain evidence. Okay, let's see our defense
attorney expert, Raymond Judice. So you know all that stuff
you were saying, let me get in my notes. I
think I threw them away. All your theory about oh,
he just fell and just died because he fell, And
(29:01):
what did you say? Oh, I've got to find there's
going to be a quote causation issue, a causation issue.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Translation.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
The defense is going to claim that the beating inflicted
by these seven people is not why the guy died.
This little boy died because he fell. All right, that's
where he's going. But what about the videos? What about
the text messages? What about the messages via Snap? And
as Julie said, the message is native to the phone.
(29:31):
That don't just disappear on a third party app. You
think you might be in a little hot water.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
Now it's the timeline. You're going to start with those
nine to one one recordings and you're going to move,
as our legal technical out and expert just stated, all
of these emails and text messages and photos will have
a time stamp, and a good prosecutor is going to
surgically one after another set out the time frame. Quite frankly,
(29:58):
the prosecutor and the team's bigg problem maybe having too
many texts and statements coming from who knows who. But again,
sometimes Nancy, when there's not a severance and you've got
seven co defendants with high priced legal counsel, confusion. I
hate to use it, but that's part of the defense strategy.
(30:19):
It wasn't me who punched him that caused the death causation.
It's co defendant Johnson who kicked him in the stomach
that caused the death. And that's what you're going to
see at trial. One quick thing, One quick thing. I
think they're all going to be treated as adults and
tried and as you call it, big boycourt. However, the
(30:39):
option of taking a defendant, a co defendant and treating
him as a juvenile is a very enticing situation for
a plea bargain. Keep that in mind.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
That's interesting because I've never been enticed ever to allow
a killer to play it out in genesis. I'm not
happy about the situation, but I did try a thirteen
year old for murder in adult court.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Did I like it?
Speaker 4 (31:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Was in my duty? Yes?
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Did he get convicted? Yes, because he jumped into a
pawn shop, stole a handful of dolt ropes gold chain,
shot three people, killing one and leaving the other one
in a wheelchair in a colostomy back for the rest
of his life. Hell no, he's not being treated as
a juvenile. That said, I've never heard of too much
(31:31):
evidence for the state, But thank you for floating another
defense theory.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining me.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
The woman who made the initial nine to one one
call tried to get help for the teen boy victim.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Listen to her nine to one one call.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Can we please get an officer at the corner of
one hundred and ninety seventh Place in Dada Palmers. There
is gotta be at least two hundred and fifty kiss here.
You're walking the streets. We're not used to this. I'm
not used to this in my neighborhood for being here
twenty five years. There's too many cars.
Speaker 8 (32:16):
These kids are gonna hit each other.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Someone's gonna get hurt, someone's gonna get it.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
With us an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now? About the death of Preston Lord,
a teen boy beaten dead. But first I want to
go to Gina Pintello, the neighbor who called nine one one.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Gina, it's amazing that you called.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Nine one one and that you're joining us tonight, because
you know what, I've learned that the majority of people
I don't get it, don't do anything. They stand by
and watch or the video with their cell phone while
somebody is either raped or assaulted or murdered. But you didn't.
(33:08):
And I want to start with that and say thank you. Jana,
tell me what happened that night.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, I appreciate that, and forgive my emotion and listening
to that and hearing you it brings back that evening.
But we live at the entrance of the subdivision, and
there were dozens upon dozens upon dozens of cars parked
back to back every side of the street coming in
and out of the subdivision. Teenagers, large groups of teenagers
(33:38):
walking everywhere, you know, in a normally quiet neighborhood. It
was kind of shocking to walk out and see it's
kind of mass crowd forming and coming in and out
of the subdivision. My husband and I immediately said we
might want to call the police. And as soon as
we're saying that, we see the police actually come into
the subdivision. Within another five to ten minutes, we watched
(34:00):
the police circle the block and leaf, and you immediately
started teenes just continued to fill the neighborhood. You could
clearly see students or children walking with bottles cans, appear
to be intoxicated. Some were yelling, you know, and then we.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Started to see accidents yelling.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
You know, they were yelling things like, h don't get
drunk kids, you know, just appearing intoxicated and holding what
looked like cans up in the air, you know. So
you could see this was starting to get rowdy as
in the streets. And then within a few minutes of that,
you started we started seeing accidents. So now they're jam
(34:42):
packed in this neighborhood. Some are trying to get in
and out of the subdivision. You can't even turn off
the main road, and they start rear ending one another.
They might hop out quickly look and then they're driving
away from these accidents. We hear another accident down the road,
and then within seconds we start seeing groups of teams
jumping over our back fence or coming out of our backyard,
(35:05):
jumping into our front yard, running into cars, and I said,
this is getting out of control. H We've got to
call nine one one, and that's and we need the
police back here. And that's when I made my call.
And when I made that call, I didn't know at
the same time the attack on Preston and the other
young boys was taking place. At that scene exact time with.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Me is Gina Pigntello who was speaking out, a boy
is dead. And can I tell you, Preston Lord, is
the age of my twins, their whole life in front
of them. But instead of graduating from high school and
(35:49):
going on all these college tours I've got planned for them,
it's over for him. And it's not just him that's gone.
It's hopes, their dreams, all their energy, all their love,
all their money into their boy. Preston Lord. When did
(36:10):
you learn, Gina Pintello, that a boy had been essentially
stopped dead in your neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Yeah, my neighbors and I actually didn't learn the details
until Monday. So this occurred Saturday evening and we didn't
learn the details until Monday. You know, we began kind
of neighbors sharing text and the gofund me, Oh my goodness,
this poor young man is fighting for his life. And
then within a few hours we learned that that he
(36:41):
had died. Yeah, just we could have never you know, imagined.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
The parents were in it was their super Bowl, their
son was coming into his own all those years of
love and nurturing, and now this when you learned about
what happened to Jana?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
What were you told? Did everybody know who did it?
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Pretty immediately I like to call them the kind of
parents of the East Valley began sharing and setting up
We've heard these names, We've seen these snapchat messages. Groups
started forming because we were getting no answers. But I
can tell you within those first few days, that first week,
(37:31):
the names we saw that were arrested were the same
names we saw within those first few days we heard
about the families like the Renters taking their son to
hide him up in the mountains, to hide injuries. These
parents that began gathering all this information, much of what
was in the police report released just last week. We
(37:51):
were learning and had and we're getting videos within that
first week of this incident happening.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
And joining me now esteemed forensic psychologists, Doctor Sherry Schwartz.
She specializes in capital mitigation and victim advocacy. You can
find her at Panthermitigation dot com and she's the author.
She literally wrote the book on criminal Behavior and another
(38:17):
book where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank
you for being with us. I was saying at the beginning,
doctor Sherry, And I'm sure you can say much more
eloquently than I can. People do things in a group
they wouldn't normally do on their own.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
On their own, do I care?
Speaker 4 (38:35):
No?
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I care that this boy is dead and million the
millionaire at defendant's father has been hiding him out, and
a million dollar golf cabin. There's such a thing as
flight after a crime, where you hide from law enforcement.
That never looks good. But can I talk to you?
Oh there, oooh that is nice. I want to talk
(38:57):
to you about the group mentality here and whether it
actually relates anyone a responsibility.
Speaker 4 (39:03):
Well.
Speaker 12 (39:04):
I work, also, Nancy, on a lot of juvenile direct
file cases. When I say direct file, basically what I
mean is they're charged as an adult, and in my experience, no,
it doesn't absolve them of legal responsibility. I think people
can argue it doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility. I
expect that some super lawyers like Ray Jiudice will come
(39:26):
forth with arguments about juvenile brain and how their brain
isn't fully developed, and this can account for some of
the behavior. And there's group dynamics at work as well,
such as mob mentality. There's always at least one or
two leaders. The larger the group, the less informed the
fringe members are. But they go along, they conform with
(39:47):
the behavior. But still at the end of the day,
under the legal system, in my experience, this doesn't really
much matter. They're going to be held accountable, just the
same as the person that starts.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
You know, I've told myself a million times because it's easy,
that my fiancee Keith didn't feel anything.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
When he was dying.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
He was shot five times in the face and the
neck and the head, and I like to believe that,
but I know inside.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's not true. He had to feel at least the
first bullet. He had to know something horrible was happening.
This is a teen.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Boy, Preston Lord is dead and he's never coming back,
and so help me God in heaven, there will be justice.
Let us stop and remember an American hero, Sergeant Nevada Crinky.
He was shot dead end of Watch at just thirty
(40:56):
three years old. Sheridan Wyoming father, a US veteran eight
years of service in Afghanistan. He survived by his wife,
Carla and his baby daughter, Bella. Nevada CREENK Nancy Gray
signing off goodbye friend
Host
Nancy Grace
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