June 8, 2018 • 49 mins
The tragic mystery of how little Lucas Hernandez died may never be resolved after the 5-year-old's stepmom Emily Glass is found shot to death in her Wichita, Kansas, home early Friday. Nancy Grace looks at latest in the case -- including the claim by Glass's friends that the boy was killed by witches in a sacrifice. Guests include body language expert psychologist Susan Constantine, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, lawyer Ashley Willcott, CrimeOnline reporter Leigh Egan and Crime Stories co-host Alan Duke.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo
code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x
Him Triumph Channel one. Thirty two five year old Lucas
Hernandez seemingly disappears into thin air, his dad out working
(00:46):
with an oil rig. The stepmother, Emily Glass with him
at home at the time, while she is taking in
that pie apparently slips out the back door. Well that's
certainly raised eyebrows with in the police department in the
last hours. A stunning turn of events. That stepmother Emily Glass,
who leads a private investigator after three months to little
(01:10):
Lucas's dead body under a bridge, has apparently been shot.
I mean, sy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you
for being with us, and a bizarre turn of events
we learned that Emily Glass is found early early in
the morning in a home near Kellogg and Edgemore. This
(01:34):
is Lucas Hernandez is so called step mother. Officers respond
to the home around to a m to find a
woman with a gunshot wound, which taught police on the
scene right now joining me a very dear friend of
Emily Glasses. It's Shelley eber Heart. Shelley, thank you for
(01:57):
being with us, and I'm stunned by this turn of events. Shelley,
what happened? We really don't know. We just was at
home Shaney and I was at Shaney's house. She's my
best friend of over thirty years, and we've been on
the Emily Glass case Lucas Hernandez case since day one
(02:19):
and had our doubts in the beginning, but after seeing
more and more of the evidence and things that weren't
lining up, I started our own group on Facebook and
added Shaney as a co administrator. Very much. Our main
objective was finding Lucius, of course, and also supporting Annily
(02:42):
because a lot of her rights, her constitutional rights were
being violated, and then dealing with different things throughout the
legal system the past sixteen years and knowing different things.
I've never heard of a person being hell in gael
on a child in dangeroum a charge on a fifty
(03:04):
dollar bond, or that taste being publicized such as hers was.
She was basically tried and convicted. Just well, hold on, Shelley,
I thought that she was actually acquitted and walked through.
Now she did. But okay, because when you said she
was tried and convicted, I thought maybe I had my
(03:25):
facts wrong. So she was acquitted, tried and convicted in
the public side. Well, when you say that she was
had so much let me say publicity. Well, but wouldn't
you agree, Shelley. Everybody with me as a dear friend
of the stepmother Emily Glass, who was home alone the
only adult with Lucas Hernandez when he goes missing and
(03:47):
then leads a private investigator three months later to his
dead body in an obscure, obscure area under a bridge.
When you say her case got so much scrutiny, I
don't think it really had to do with her driving
after three bowls apart. I think the scrutiny was because
Lucas at the time was still missing and everyone felt
(04:10):
she had the maybe the missing answers to what happened
to him? Tell me why you think Do you think
Emily Glass was involved in Lucas's death? No, we don't
believe that she harmed Lucas. Yes, we have always felt
that she had information as to what happened to him
(04:31):
and about his disappearance, even from her first Gelhouse interview,
her video taped interview with k w H Channel twelve
here on which Tall, Kansas, she did state herself that
there was a story to tell, but that it was
not her story to tell. There was a story to tell,
(04:52):
but it's not her story to tell. Wasn't she the
only adult in the home when he went missing? Um?
There was also a homeles man there at the time
that Lucas went missing. Okay, and who was that? By
the name of Christian Route right, let me ask you, um,
what evidence supports the theory that there was a homeless
(05:14):
man in the home when Lucas goes missing. Um, it's
actually been reported and verified by the police officers. They
did bring him in for questioning and did have him
talk to Emily, trying to get her to talk. Um.
But unfortunately, just two weeks after he spoke to the
police and talked about his involvement in the Lucas Hernandez
(05:36):
case and his disappearance. He coincidentally wound up dad and
a hint and run accident. Well, my question is if
he first of all, what was a homeless man doing
in their home? If that's true, Emily is a very
empathetic person. It was called outside. It was just the
(06:01):
type of person she is, as far as somebody being
outside cold. Um. But we have since learned that this
Christian Riles has connections with bile mom Jamie Orr and
also has connections with Misty Cox, who has appointed herself
(06:24):
as the spokesperson now for the Hernandez Well for Lucas
Hernandez is um mom and Dad. Well, this is starting
to sound like a very vast conspiracy that a homeless
man was in the home at the time Lucas goes missing,
(06:47):
and he, according to you, has connections with Lucas's biological
mom who lived in a different city. Actually Jamie lived here.
Jamie lives in which talk Kansas ap getting a jump
from Emily and Jonathan's home and where to Emily and
Jonathan is their home in Wichita? Yes, it is. When
(07:09):
you say a hop skipping a jump. That that's interesting.
Let me rephrase. So according to you, and this is
according to Emily at the time the five year old
little boy goes missing under her care, she has invited
an unknown homeless man into the home. We now know
his name, and you are stating that he had connections.
(07:32):
Whatever that means to the biological mother who lived elsewhere?
Is that correct to Lucas's bio mom? Now, why would
anybody take a nap with a homeless man in the
home with your child? That I can't answer. Um, I'm
a mother of seven children, and I do know that
(07:54):
if my children were napping, I would try a nap
with them any time. I can take a nap your
own doctor, with a homeless man, with a homeless man,
a homeless man in my home. I've never done that,
but yeah, okay, So another thing. During these three months
that Lucas was missing, the homeless man was never taken
(08:16):
into custody. He was questioned after Glass pointing a finger
at him, but he was never taken into custody. Interested
for any reason? Why is that? Actually Emily Glass never
named him. The police actually found that found Well, that's
hold on, hold on, let me write this down. So
(08:39):
Lucas goes missing a five year old todd boy and
this is emily story. There's a homeless man in the home. Yeah,
when police come to find and look for the boy,
she never mentions a homeless man in the home. Okay,
you don't see a problem with that. She had told
Jonathan about it and he was fine with it. And um,
(09:03):
the police are actually the ones who found out about
the homeless man or Christian Ryles being there and they located.
I know, but that Jonathan may be fine with it,
which I frankly don't believe that any man, any father,
or any parent out of town will be okay with
a homeless guy in your home. You want to help
(09:25):
a homeless person, give them some money, take them to
a shelter, give them something to eat. Don't bring him
in with your own baby. Girl, and you're taught Stepson.
I find that really hard to believe, And that she
would take a nap with a homeless guy there with
a child, and that when that child goes missing, she
never tells police, Hey, I had a guy here giving
(09:48):
him shelter from the cold. Obviously he's involved. Now if
even in this scenario, which I do not believe. But
even in this scenario, if it were true, I'm more
about finding out the truth. Then why did she know?
Why did Emily Glass know where the body was? Okay,
(10:11):
where the top boy had been hidden? Okay, Um, Nancy,
this is Shaney. And from what we're understanding from Emily,
she was not sure where the body was. And she
kept telling this man, I think it's in Keascha I
I think it's in Keaschai. He drove her out to
Harvey County over this bridge of at least thirty times.
(10:35):
He said, I think he's out here, and he stops
the bridges and just happens to be the first bridge
just to fans off that and Lucas is under that bridge.
But if you listen to this, okay, well why why
why if you listen to the podcast audio that, yeah,
that's not what I hear. I don't hear him telling
(10:56):
her where to go. How would I mean, that's not
what happened. And when you look over the bridge, you
can't even tell, because I've seen it myself. When you
look into that gully, you can't even tell that that
is Lucas. You can't. And she told him that she
actually told him, I believe it's key Chi. I believe
(11:18):
it's key Chi. And she kept saying, I let Lucas down.
She let Lucas down because she could not defend him.
And what all is going on around her? If you
you mean because she led a homeless man in the
home that killed him and then concealed it from police,
I'm saying this homeless man did not just show up
(11:39):
on her doorstep by accident. I believe that. I'm saying
this homeless man did not show up on her doorstep
at all. But it's because it doesn't make sense to me.
How would she know where the Todds dead body was.
She led him there out of everywhere in the area.
She led him to this obscure location. The homeless man
(12:00):
show up at a doorstep because that was that was
private by which talked the police department and they took
him in and for a question. He was also arrested,
but all the other cases and they took a hand
over to the jail to talk to Emily. But she's like,
I don't know you. She was playing kind of crazy,
like I don't know you. Um, it was a it
(12:21):
was a situation that I don't think you're clear of
or any of us are really clear of. There was
drug usage going on at that time. There was things
going on in the home and the home that none
of us knew what was really going on. We've got
an innocent boy there, We've got an innocent baby girl.
But the day that Emily was taken into custody, the
(12:44):
woman had looked like she had been beaten, two black eyes,
her hands were all tore up. That was a woman fighting.
Her knuckles were completely bruised, like she was fighting to
protect somebody. That's why she says, Well, then why did
she ever tell any of that to police? Wouldn't it
be more important to find Lucas? And how would she
(13:07):
know that Lucas's body is in Key Chai? How would
she know that it wasn't even in Key Chai, that's
just that part. It was in Harvey County. Well, you
just said that. She continued to say, I think Lucas's
body is in Kee Chai. So well, then how did
she end up at an obscure bridge in the middle
(13:29):
of nowhere to tell the private eye where the body was.
He drove over that bridge over and over and he said, okay,
I'm going to tell you I think you know, or
Lucas is that isn't one of these bridges, so we'll
just stop at all of them. Nancy. I've listened to
all the audio, you know. David Marshburn, the p I
provided us every second of audio that Emily was with him,
(13:51):
and painstakingly we've all listened to six and a half
hours of it as they're driving around. And that's not
what I heard. So question to Emily's friend, where are
you getting the information as to what Marshburn said to her?
Where did that? Well? On one of the edited edit
party podcasts that you had, where it says right there
(14:11):
that he asked Emily which bridge and she's like, I
can't tell you. I don't know, and he says, then
a little this drive over all these bridges and we'll
get out and start looking. You know. I don't hear
him saying that. I don't ever recall that. But to
the point that's happening right now, Emily Glass has been shot.
Do you believe she shot herself? Ma'am, I've got and
(14:36):
I showed the police. I took my phone to night.
Jonathan Hernandez actually said last Winester Thursday, night if he's
seen Emily, he didn't know that he could keep himself
from killing her, because she asked, Jonathan, will you meet
up with me? No tape recorders, no cameras, no videos,
(14:58):
no metha, no phones. I want to talk to you
about everything that happened at night, And Jonathan told do
a friend, I can't I meet up with her because
if I do, I'm not sure I won't kill her.
Are you suggesting that the father of Lucas Hernandez shot
Emily Glass the stepmother? Yes, I am. Let me just
(15:19):
stay here that while Jonathan Hernandez, the father, was in
the home where Emily is shot and did call nine
one one. To my understanding, there is no evidence at
all that he shot Emily Glass. Right now, it is
undetermined as to the shooting. Go ahead, Dear Emily didn't
call anyone. He gets what the officers told him when
(15:42):
they got there. She he said she was code blue
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(16:03):
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(16:25):
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(16:46):
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(17:08):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three part limited series
of Hailey Dean mysteries based on characters from the New
York Times best selling books by Nancy Grace. The series
continues this Sunday, June tenth with Hailey Dean Mysteries, A
Marriage Made for Murder. It all starts at nine pm
Eastern this Sunday. Grab your popcorn and join Nancy Grace
for Hailey Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder on
(17:30):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries with Me Now. Susan Constantine, psychologist
and author of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language.
You can find her at Susan Constantine dot com, her
(17:51):
book on Amazon. Forensics expert renowned Joseph Scott, Morgan, Ashley Willcott,
juvenile judge, founder of child crime watch dot com, and
crime online investigative reporter Lee Egan um Lee Egan When
where police called to the home? As we know right now,
the stepmother under suspicion and the mistreatment of a boy
(18:15):
found dead under a bridge. Lucas Hernandez has been shot? Who, what, where? When?
And widely give it to me in a nutshell, Nancy.
What happened was Jonathan Lucas's father called around a little
after one thirty am. He said he walked into the
home off of South Edgemore and found a woman unresponsive
(18:35):
with a gunshot. When police arrived a short time later
and pronounced her dead. At this time, they're saying there's
no evidence of homicide, but they're all they're not calling
it suicide either. They're still investigating. It's still very early
in the investigation. Very early in a developing story. Emily
Glass has been shot. The person that finds her body
(18:57):
is Lucas Hernandez, his father Jonathan, who spoke with in depth,
joining me Emily's friends Shelley ever Heart. Uh, and you
are convinced that she did not shoot herself? Yes, we are.
I'm Shaaney how and she's showing ever heart. We're we're
both her, both Emily's friends and um, we're both convinced
(19:19):
you'd not shoot herself. After reading several text messages and
things of Jonathan and the last week, saying when Emily
was released from jail last week and the baby was found,
baby Lucas was found that he would not he could
not refrain himself from possibly killing her, and all she
(19:39):
wanted to do was talk to him and explain things
to him. He would not beat up with her. And
I asked Jonathan, I said, Jonathan, do don't you think
that there's enough killings going on? And he had this, um,
he's it's been enough. People have died through all this
and he put the loji sign. That's like hmm, let's
see and now Emily did tonight Take a listen to
(20:02):
what Emily Glass says from her jail cell before she
was let Scott free. Can you tell me any more
about what happened that Saturday when he disappeared? Just the
fact that it took a shower and since we took
it up like we always do, I'm putting down for
(20:26):
a movie and it's cool because you know, yeah, back
to this, please sleep. So that was why he had
a qualrified oh when he had fallen a sleep after
my shower, which is why I went down. Mm hmm,
now I gotta go. You are hearing Emily Glass as
(20:49):
she is speaking with Kate W. C H. Devin Fastbender,
and at no time does she mention anyone else in
the home as a matter of fact, through out uh
questions um explanations. The homeless man she now points to
being there emerged later. For ninety days plus search teams,
(21:14):
a t v S, dogs, helicopters, volunteers look for the boy.
It's only when private investigator Marshburn gets the stepmother in
the car. They drive for four to five hours until
she leads him to Lucas's dead body. In the last hours,
Emily Glass found shot Lucas's father, discovers her body and
(21:36):
calls nine one one with me. Two of Emily's dear friends,
Jamie Howell and Sherry Eberhart to Susan Constantine, author of
Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language on Amazon. Susan, you
have carefully combed over every single statement given by Emily Glass.
(21:58):
Explain Yeah, when I did, Nancy is I conducted statement
analysis on every single one of the statements and looking
for areas that we're connecting or disconnecting. And overall, when
I reading through there, there are several areas that just
didn't make sense. They were incongruent to what she was saying.
(22:18):
There's lots of filler words, additional words that were not there.
And you have to understand that with statement analysis, the
writer or the speaker chooses subconsciously every single word that
they put down and what they say, So every word
is examined on its own and then why is it there?
For example, when we're looking at the one you were
just talking about that they took a shower, um like
(22:42):
he always dust, making it sound as if this is
something that's routine. I put him down for a movie.
Now here's the other information in his pull up. Now
that part really doesn't really fit, does it. But there's
a reason why Emily put that in there. And then
she says, you know he has accident, all right, So
no one asked her that question. She put that in there,
(23:03):
so that's why we had pull up on him. So
when I'm reading that, that's clear to me that saying
that somewhat reason why he ended up abused is somewhere
around the reason why he had accidents, And I see
what you mean. Let me ask to the friends Jamie
Howell and Shelley Ever heard people had noticed that Lucas
(23:25):
was covered in bruises in the past. What do you,
if anything, do you know about that. Did Emily ever
explain that the bruises? Okay, this is what we've been told,
and not just by Emily but by family, because Emily
was pretty much the provider, and um not financially because
she didn't work. Jonathan did. But as far as taking
(23:47):
care of Emily, my own mom wasn't, which was Jamie
was now in the pictures, not allowed to see him
unless it was supervised. So Jamie or Emily had him
all the time him. She took him to school, she
got him home from school, she took him to the
doctor's appointment, she got him home, she dressed him very well. Um,
(24:08):
there was several times that we were told that Jonathan
went on the attacked mode of hurting his own child
and Jamie or Emily would have to pull him off,
and then Jamie or than Emily would get beat But
there's lots though. There's also a situation going on right
(24:32):
now where Jonathan attacked one of James or one of
Emily's biological sons and he's being charged for it right
now in Sedgwick County Court. Fancy this is Ashley. Could
I jump in because there's something really important I think
that all listeners need to understand about one of the
statements just made when when she stated that Emily took
(24:55):
him to the doctor a dressed him. Well, here's the
problem in our society as a whole. People tend to
leave that. That means those people that dressed their children well,
take him to the doctor, take care of them, take
them out to dinner, feed them, don't abuse or neglect
their children, And that's absolutely false statistically, and I do
not want people to continue to have a perception and
belief that just because a parent or a person who's
(25:17):
a caretaker takes the child to the doctor and dresses
him well necessarily means they're not capable of abuse or neglect,
because it does not mean that. I want to follow
up as she Willcott with child crime watch dot Com
and juvenile Judge Lee Egan with me, investigative reporter with
Crime online dot Com. Lee, when Lucas's aunt was so
(25:41):
upset about Lucas being covered in bruises? Didn't those occur
while the dad, who I think worked with the oil
companies was gone? Yes, they did. I believe what happened
was he was back in town and he was with
Emily when they were visiting the aunt and she noticed
the this then. But supposedly they happened when he was working.
(26:04):
That's why I'm hearing, but there's no confirmation of that.
I want to go back to emily glasses friends, Jamie
Howell and Shelley Eberhart here with us. They say there's
no way the gunshot wound on Emily Glass was self inflicted,
that she would never have shot herself. Question to you, guys,
(26:27):
I'm having a hard time understanding. Um. Emily Glass, as
you say, and I think you're correct, had Lucas all
the time, as you say, all the time, she did.
So if she has him all the time, she's not
responsible for all those bruises if she's got him all
the time. And did she report the abuse? Did she
(26:50):
take him to the doctor about the abuse? She apparently
kept her own child in the home with the father
even after she sees him according to her beating the child.
I mean, if my husband beat my children one time,
it would be a miracle if he walked out of
this house a lot. But I tell you another thing,
(27:12):
he would never have a second chance. There would never
be another chance to beat the children. That would not happen.
So you're telling me that she brought a homeless man
into the home, that she then takes a shower and
a nap and leaves the children with a homeless man,
wakes up, the boy is gone, does not tell police
(27:37):
about the homeless man, lets a search go on for
all this time, leads the investigator to the body. But
you don't think she had anything to do with his death. No,
I do not. What do you think happened to him? Uh?
I don't even know how to really go into sustaining
what I think happened to him, because I think that
(28:01):
there's a lot more people involved in this than just
two or three people involved in the little boy's death.
How could that be? She was the only one that
we know of in the home that she wasn't That's
that's what That's what you're okay, So let's just led
to believe by Jonathan or whatever. But Jonathan, them all
(28:21):
knew this homeless man. They all knew this homeless sin.
They've all set up, They've all set up for him,
Alan Duke, we have combed over the police reports and
the investigative reports, so we've been able to get is
there any indication that police believe anyone was in the
home other than Emily Glass when Lucas disappears. I'm not
(28:44):
aware of any and maybe Lee Egan can verify that.
You are you have been on the scene at the jailhouse.
What are you learning was there the police believe somebody
was in the home other than Emily Glass, who has
now been shot at the time Lucas goes missing. No,
they do not, at least from what they're telling us.
(29:05):
The only person of interest from what law enforcement has said,
is Emily Glass. But according to Shamie Howell and Shelley Eberhart,
there was a homeless guy in the home that she
Emily felt so comfortable with that she went to sleep
for three hours, leaving the children with a homeless guy. Well,
(29:26):
the homeless man was in the house. The problem is,
we're not sure what day he was in the house.
He did he spoke to detectives, We're not sure what
he said because they're not telling us, and shortly after
he was killed, So we're not sure when or why
he was in the home. Is there any indication he
was there when Luce Lucas went missing? Do you think
(29:47):
it had anything to do with Emily Glass's use of
metha and fhetamine? Yes? In other words, was that her
dope body? Probably? The plot seemingly thickens and now the
culmination of the search and discovery Lucas's body, as Emily
Glass has been found shot found by Lucas's father, Jonathan Hernandez,
(30:07):
who calls nine one one. Maybe the people that have
more insight than any of us. Are Emily's friends, Shelley
Eberhard and Shane Howell. Guys, thank you for being with us.
You say that so many people were involved with Lucas's death,
It's really hard for me to believe. And I'll tell
you why. And I'm not saying I'm not wrong. People
(30:31):
cannot keep their yapp shut when there's a conspiracy or
there are several people involved in wrongdoing, somebody always blabs.
It's just you know, even in Watergate with the Okay,
who do you believe are the people involved? And why
would they cover up the death of a little boy? Okay,
I believe that um uh Jenny was in something called wick.
(30:56):
They're in something called wick. Have you ever heard of it? Yes?
I have heard of wicka the a name for witchcraft.
You now think that this is part of a witchcraft plot?
I sure do, Yes, I do. And I believe that's
why everybody else that's telling their story is coming up dead.
I have been shot at, I have been ran off
(31:17):
the road, and that's a warning to me. That's just
a warning. I have been I have Facebook messages that
are warning me to back off. That's just a warning,
They say, why would you believe this has anything to
do with wicker because that's what they were into. Who
is they, Jonathan Jamie? Jamie's got the lens on the
back of her car, which is a bio. Mom, is
(31:38):
to you sacrifice your firstborn child, your birth firstborn son? Well,
you were close friends with Emily Did she try to
recruit you to Wicka? Oh? No, no, no, no, I wouldn't.
I'm not. I'm a very I believe in God. I
don't believe in anybody else but God. But then did
(32:01):
Emily Glass discussed Wicka with you? No, she discussed it
with a friend of ours. But but you were close
to her. If she was in Wicka? Whatever what? I
freaked out? I don't want to hear anything about it. Okay,
right now, this is what we know. Emily Glass has
been shot. The father of Lucas Hernandez. Call nine one one.
(32:25):
I'm just sorry. I'm so sorry for everyone's to fucking Hill's. Okay,
don't think you can do if her hair is moving forward?
And where's them? I didn't get so wrong. I didn't wrong,
(32:55):
got honest. That is Emily Glass telling private I David
Marshburn that she quote did Lucas wrong? This is as
they are finding the child's dead body, and that's what
we're losing sight of right now with all the discussion
of a conspiracy and a homeless guy on WICKA bottom line,
(33:16):
Emily Glass was in the home at the time the
talk goes missing. Emily Glass led police, excuse me, lad
a private eye to the body in an obscure location.
Emily Glass in the last hours has been shot. I
want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert, Professor
(33:38):
of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott Right now,
it's all going to Hinge on a post mortem. What
will they be looking forward to determine was this a
suicide or a homicide? Well, she's been shot, Nancy. They're
gonna be the first thing they're gonna be looking for
is evidence on the body relative to range of fire.
If this was, say, for instance, a shooting at a
(34:00):
distance that would lean or list more towards, for instance,
a homicide that some money was facing her or back
of her, whatever the attitude was, and fired into her
one thing at a time, one thing at a time. Distance.
You're right, they're gonna look to see if this if
the bullet wound was at close range. If it were
at close range, that could suggest suicide. Not necessarily. A
(34:23):
perp can hold a gun to her head or her
body and shoot her a close range. But if it's
not at close range, i e. Further than thirty six
inches away, you will not get any gunshot residue. Right
But within that, uh well, I like to I like
to pare it down to about twenty two inches out,
and in that you're going to get some kind of disposition,
(34:44):
that is the distribution of unburned gunpowder on the body
at that distance. Now one of the things they're gonna
be looking for. Slow down, slow down, got me drinking
out of fire? Hydright here, I've got u. Joseph Scott Morgan,
renowned forensics expert jose Scott The point, and that is,
if it is close range, maybe she shot herself. Maybe
(35:05):
somebody else shot her. If it's not close range, then
somebody else definitely shot her, because you can only hold
a gun x inches away from yourself and shoot yourself.
So if it's beyond say two ft, somebody else shot her.
How do we know if it's beyond two ft you
don't have gunshot residue invisible to the naked eye. When
(35:26):
the gun is discharged, residue comes out of the gun
and sprays to about thirty six inches max. So if
there's no gunshot residue on her body, then she did
not shoot herself. Next, yeah, and uh, we have to
think about you know, one of the things they're gonna
look at obviously is her arm length. You know, how
how far away is she capable of holding this? This
(35:48):
way my experience, in my experience, the line's share of
cases involving suicides are going to involve what we refer
to as hard contact or press contact gunshot wounds. The
most common area is going to be to the head,
and that means that the weapon would be tightly pressed
to the head some locational head, more than likely the
temple that's generally where people do it, or in the mouth.
(36:11):
And then okay, now to me, we're rehashing. I'll tell
you why. If it's a contact when you're not only
gonna have gunshot residue, you're gonna have searing, in other words,
a little bit of a burn around the bullet entry,
around the gun barrel itself, on the head it's hard
(36:31):
to find, but it's easy to find if you're trained professional.
Long story short, if there's burning or searing, it could
be a suicide. It could still be a homicide. I'm
beyond that. I'm to the next thing, Joe Scott. What
I'm saying is, if the shot was beyond thirty six inches,
she did not kill herself. So if there's no residue
(36:54):
on her body, then it was not thirty six inches.
I'm past the contact wound. I'm past. Now we're gonna
be looking at angle, angle entry, angle exit and entry. Explain,
what you're gonna be talking about is if say, for instance,
a perpetrator withstanding above her or at her same level,
(37:17):
the angle of entry what and that gives you an
idea of attitude and relationship between the victim and the shooter.
And so we moved beyond distance. We're talking about angle
of deflection. Now, let's say, for instance, you've got somebody
down on the floor, all right, and they're begging for
their life. That angle is going to be completely different.
If we're standing at eye level and you pull a
weapon and you shoot them in the chest or the
(37:38):
face or wherever it is that you shoot them So
that's gonna give you an idea. Remember, we can't go
back to the scene in question the victim. It's gonna
give you an idea of the dynamic that was going
on in that environment. You know, what was going on
at that particular time and where were they relative to
position in the in the dwelling in this particular case,
if she is in the dwelling, I still don't know completely. Well,
(38:01):
let's go to her friends joining me. Uh, Miss Howell
and Miss ever Heart. What are you learning about the
circumstances surrounding Emily's gunshot wound? What room was she and
was she on the floor? Was she in the bedroom
on the bed? What do we know? We were not
told we were not allowed to get close to the house.
(38:21):
You think the front rooms? I believe it from room.
I believe there might have been some kind of struggle
between the front room and maybe the back door. What's
the front room? Is that a living room or a bedroom?
What is it living room? But there is question is
this the same home you're talking about where Lucas was
last seen alive? Yes, And I do know that since
(38:45):
Lucas has passed or have been cameras hid in the home.
So I don't know if Jonathan is aware of these cameras,
but I think the witch Shot police department should be
made aware of them. And you know what's interesting, We
were told that for about a week before Lucas was
reported missing, nobody had seen him. He was absent from
(39:07):
school on no one called. He was sick with the flu.
Did you see him? Um, No, I didn't. But his
aunt which I spoke to from you at all, she
said he was sick with the flu and he was
put on bo friends to the kept hugan. So did
(39:27):
anybody see Lucas because the school was apparently never called,
and they did not. They were trying to call Emily Glass,
but she would never call back. Why Lucas had been
out of school for over a week. I believe the
one that did see him on the fourteenth February was
(39:48):
his bio mom, and she picked him up for Valentine's
Day and went and got him a gift and brought
him back February. Yes, suppose she supposedly she brought him
back the fourteen is where are you learning this? Because
there is a theory that he was dead by the eleventh. No,
(40:09):
we were told by Emily had told her grandmother and
her aunt that she was going to be introled by
Jonathan because she let Emily or she let Jamie know
where she lives, and she was not supposed to do
that because they had already moved away from one place
because Jamie was badgering them. So they had moved away,
(40:30):
and they moved into this new house. And okay, wait
a minute, well hold on, let me understand what you're saying.
If they had moved away to a secret location away
from the bio mom, then how could the bio mom
have left all those bruises on the boy. The bio didn't.
Maybe the bruises on them on him, the bio dad did.
The real father he was abusive with her, and he
(40:50):
was also abusive with Emily. All Right, she advocate and
she's been called that they're out called to work with
them before. Lee Egan, Crime Online dot Com reporter, Late,
what are you learning about the shooting? What room was
she and while she clothed? What time? Anything you can
(41:10):
tell us at this point. Nothing. I'm looking at a
live feed from k w c H and it appears
that Jonathan's truck is no longer at the house um
from the angle I'm seeing, and I did see it
there previously, and I did want to touch on something
with what one of the ladies just said about the
fourteenth UH. Law enforcement did speak with Jamie and she
(41:31):
told them that the last time she saw Lucas was
in December celebrating his birthday, and she had not seen
him in mutts mm hmm. That's an untrue statement because
just two or three weeks prior to that, she showed
up the beet Dolementary and tried to physically have a
fight with it with Emily. She showed up at the
boys school. I think that she's correct. I think that
(41:54):
that did happen. What either shouldn't miss Howard and Shelley
Amber Harder saying, I think that confrontation did happen, but
still she was not with the boy. She was not
with Lucas. The bio mom had an altercation with Emily Glass,
but she did not get Lucas. To my understanding, the
last time, according to police, the bio mom had Lucas
(42:18):
was back in December at his birthday. Ashley Walcott joining
in Juvenile Judge found her child Crime watch dot Com.
Ashley in a scenario like this, nobody's a suspect. Everybody's
a suspect because there's so many high emotions. But I
always go back to what we know as to who
was in the home at the time the boy goes
(42:40):
missing and who led Marshburn to the body. Absolutely so,
and Nancy. One of the things I've always said in
this case is she either did it, Emily, either killed
this child or she knows exactly what happened to this child,
and who is in the home goes directly to that point.
The other thing I want to say is it's really
splitting hairs to say she didn't kill this child, but
(43:02):
she wasn't comfortable, she was afraid, she didn't tell anybody
what happened or who was involved. That's the same thing.
If you know that a child is a victim of abuse, neglect, murder,
and you choose not to report it and tell everything
that happened and the truth around what happened, it's just
as bad as if you killed the child yourself. And
(43:24):
in this particular case, I think that's what's happened. Well,
what the friends are doing here is they are struggling
with the evidence, and they're struggling about what happened to
Emily Glass. They're her friends. They are defending her because
they know her in a way that we don't, and
(43:45):
it's very hard to believe for them. I'm sure that
she may have had something to do with Lucas's death
or disappearance, And for all I know, they have evidence
that I don't have. So I'm very intrigued about what
they're say. Agree with you, and I think there's a
lot of evidence to be there that needs to be
shared with law enforcement and Price so it can be investigated.
But I'm still gonna stand by what we all have
(44:06):
to keep in mind. It's all good evidence, but anything
that Emily has told them happened without some collaboration. Outside
of that, hold on just one moment. I hear that
Susan Constantine, psychologist and author, wants in Susan, you have
sifted through everything Emily Glass has said, what are your thoughts? Yeah?
(44:30):
You know. The last statement is probably the most telling,
where she says I did Lucas so wrong. I did
him wrong. Will you notice that her voice intensifies and
the word I she's taking ownership. There was not we
or us, So it shows one person did is the
word of the act I did Lucas was the victim
(44:53):
and the words so it's like saying I am so
happy to see you or I'm so upset. So is
a word that is something that happens over time. And
then she uses the word wrong. Wrong is connected to
the abuse. Something happened that created that. So when we
look at it as I did Lucas so wrong, it
is she takes ownership of the act. The victim is Lucas.
(45:16):
She did it over time, and the act was abused.
And then she says right after that, I feel so
sorry for him. When she says Phil, she's talking about
in present tense. Her voice and her words show remorse,
so you can sense that she's feeling remorseful at this
point in time. But then she says, Glass said she
put him through hell or through hell, meaning a long
(45:37):
duration of abuse. And then she gives you an affirmation
this is the God's honest truth. Well, I want to
just talk common sense for one moment. Common sense, Okay,
help me out with this. Anybody that wants in alan,
if a child you and are both parents, if a
child is missing and you don't know where they are
(46:00):
and you don't know what's happened to them, and you
had some stranger in your home, and wouldn't the first
thing you say, I had that piece of crap, Alan
Duke in my home, and now my baby's missing. Go
find Alan Duke. We gotta find Lucas, he may know.
Instead of sitting on your thumb, Alan, I mean, if
(46:25):
you don't know that Lucas is dead unless you know
where he is, why wouldn't you track the homeless guy
down yourself and go lead me to Lucas you were
with my boy? Where is he? Or I will kill you?
I mean, that never happened, and I can't imagine any
other response. I can't imagine just being quiet when you
(46:49):
know that child is under a bridge. So explained to me.
Back to Miss Eberhart and Miss Howell. See, I think
Emily Glass is the key to what happened to Lucas.
You disagree. You may know more than me, But why
would she she didn't already know Lucas was dead. Why
wouldn't she have police out that night? You said she
(47:11):
told her husband not police. Why weren't they looking for
him to find out where Lucas was? Could have saved
his life and the police for contact at first, then
her husband came in from the Mexico and then I
know that. But you said she only told her husband
about an homeless guy in the home that night. Well,
I don't really know how the police found out, because
(47:32):
they did find out because they could be them in
into custody, So somehow they did know. Was it was
the lead that they got or what they what they
did get, they did get to leave. Why didn't she
tell police that? Not when she reported him missing around
six o'clock. I told you, I think that she was fighting.
(47:53):
She had bruises on her fingers, on her knuckles, two
black eyes. I do believe there was a going at home.
Lucas was injured. She was scaring for Mia, sparing for herself.
She had already seen what whoever these people were did
to her. She just wanted to wait from so instead
of trying to save Lucas's life, I think she never
(48:16):
reported any of this. Okay, that's a theory, but this
is what I know right now. Emily Glass has been
shot and we're waiting to find out for the medical
examiner they cause and manner of death. Nancy Grace Crime
Stories signing off goodbye, friend. Did you know a recent
(48:37):
law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody
to find. If you've turned on the news lately, you
know the Internet has created a dangerous new world. It's
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forget about embarrassing social media? A profile? That info may
(49:02):
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Truth Finders searches millions of public records, assembling the data
together in one report. Members get unlimited searches, so you
can also look up those close to you and make
sure they're not hiding something. Visit truth finder dot com
slash Nancy, enter your own name get started. Throughout June,
(49:26):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three part limited series
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(49:48):
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(00:23):
use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo
code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x
Him Triumph Channel one. Thirty two five year old Lucas
Hernandez seemingly disappears into thin air, his dad out working
(00:46):
with an oil rig. The stepmother, Emily Glass with him
at home at the time, while she is taking in
that pie apparently slips out the back door. Well that's
certainly raised eyebrows with in the police department in the
last hours. A stunning turn of events. That stepmother Emily Glass,
who leads a private investigator after three months to little
(01:10):
Lucas's dead body under a bridge, has apparently been shot.
I mean, sy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you
for being with us, and a bizarre turn of events
we learned that Emily Glass is found early early in
the morning in a home near Kellogg and Edgemore. This
(01:34):
is Lucas Hernandez is so called step mother. Officers respond
to the home around to a m to find a
woman with a gunshot wound, which taught police on the
scene right now joining me a very dear friend of
Emily Glasses. It's Shelley eber Heart. Shelley, thank you for
(01:57):
being with us, and I'm stunned by this turn of events. Shelley,
what happened? We really don't know. We just was at
home Shaney and I was at Shaney's house. She's my
best friend of over thirty years, and we've been on
the Emily Glass case Lucas Hernandez case since day one
(02:19):
and had our doubts in the beginning, but after seeing
more and more of the evidence and things that weren't
lining up, I started our own group on Facebook and
added Shaney as a co administrator. Very much. Our main
objective was finding Lucius, of course, and also supporting Annily
(02:42):
because a lot of her rights, her constitutional rights were
being violated, and then dealing with different things throughout the
legal system the past sixteen years and knowing different things.
I've never heard of a person being hell in gael
on a child in dangeroum a charge on a fifty
(03:04):
dollar bond, or that taste being publicized such as hers was.
She was basically tried and convicted. Just well, hold on, Shelley,
I thought that she was actually acquitted and walked through.
Now she did. But okay, because when you said she
was tried and convicted, I thought maybe I had my
(03:25):
facts wrong. So she was acquitted, tried and convicted in
the public side. Well, when you say that she was
had so much let me say publicity. Well, but wouldn't
you agree, Shelley. Everybody with me as a dear friend
of the stepmother Emily Glass, who was home alone the
only adult with Lucas Hernandez when he goes missing and
(03:47):
then leads a private investigator three months later to his
dead body in an obscure, obscure area under a bridge.
When you say her case got so much scrutiny, I
don't think it really had to do with her driving
after three bowls apart. I think the scrutiny was because
Lucas at the time was still missing and everyone felt
(04:10):
she had the maybe the missing answers to what happened
to him? Tell me why you think Do you think
Emily Glass was involved in Lucas's death? No, we don't
believe that she harmed Lucas. Yes, we have always felt
that she had information as to what happened to him
(04:31):
and about his disappearance, even from her first Gelhouse interview,
her video taped interview with k w H Channel twelve
here on which Tall, Kansas, she did state herself that
there was a story to tell, but that it was
not her story to tell. There was a story to tell,
(04:52):
but it's not her story to tell. Wasn't she the
only adult in the home when he went missing? Um?
There was also a homeles man there at the time
that Lucas went missing. Okay, and who was that? By
the name of Christian Route right, let me ask you, um,
what evidence supports the theory that there was a homeless
(05:14):
man in the home when Lucas goes missing. Um, it's
actually been reported and verified by the police officers. They
did bring him in for questioning and did have him
talk to Emily, trying to get her to talk. Um.
But unfortunately, just two weeks after he spoke to the
police and talked about his involvement in the Lucas Hernandez
(05:36):
case and his disappearance. He coincidentally wound up dad and
a hint and run accident. Well, my question is if
he first of all, what was a homeless man doing
in their home? If that's true, Emily is a very
empathetic person. It was called outside. It was just the
(06:01):
type of person she is, as far as somebody being
outside cold. Um. But we have since learned that this
Christian Riles has connections with bile mom Jamie Orr and
also has connections with Misty Cox, who has appointed herself
(06:24):
as the spokesperson now for the Hernandez Well for Lucas
Hernandez is um mom and Dad. Well, this is starting
to sound like a very vast conspiracy that a homeless
man was in the home at the time Lucas goes missing,
(06:47):
and he, according to you, has connections with Lucas's biological
mom who lived in a different city. Actually Jamie lived here.
Jamie lives in which talk Kansas ap getting a jump
from Emily and Jonathan's home and where to Emily and
Jonathan is their home in Wichita? Yes, it is. When
(07:09):
you say a hop skipping a jump. That that's interesting.
Let me rephrase. So according to you, and this is
according to Emily at the time the five year old
little boy goes missing under her care, she has invited
an unknown homeless man into the home. We now know
his name, and you are stating that he had connections.
(07:32):
Whatever that means to the biological mother who lived elsewhere?
Is that correct to Lucas's bio mom? Now, why would
anybody take a nap with a homeless man in the
home with your child? That I can't answer. Um, I'm
a mother of seven children, and I do know that
(07:54):
if my children were napping, I would try a nap
with them any time. I can take a nap your
own doctor, with a homeless man, with a homeless man,
a homeless man in my home. I've never done that,
but yeah, okay, So another thing. During these three months
that Lucas was missing, the homeless man was never taken
(08:16):
into custody. He was questioned after Glass pointing a finger
at him, but he was never taken into custody. Interested
for any reason? Why is that? Actually Emily Glass never
named him. The police actually found that found Well, that's
hold on, hold on, let me write this down. So
(08:39):
Lucas goes missing a five year old todd boy and
this is emily story. There's a homeless man in the home. Yeah,
when police come to find and look for the boy,
she never mentions a homeless man in the home. Okay,
you don't see a problem with that. She had told
Jonathan about it and he was fine with it. And um,
(09:03):
the police are actually the ones who found out about
the homeless man or Christian Ryles being there and they located.
I know, but that Jonathan may be fine with it,
which I frankly don't believe that any man, any father,
or any parent out of town will be okay with
a homeless guy in your home. You want to help
(09:25):
a homeless person, give them some money, take them to
a shelter, give them something to eat. Don't bring him
in with your own baby. Girl, and you're taught Stepson.
I find that really hard to believe, And that she
would take a nap with a homeless guy there with
a child, and that when that child goes missing, she
never tells police, Hey, I had a guy here giving
(09:48):
him shelter from the cold. Obviously he's involved. Now if
even in this scenario, which I do not believe. But
even in this scenario, if it were true, I'm more
about finding out the truth. Then why did she know?
Why did Emily Glass know where the body was? Okay,
(10:11):
where the top boy had been hidden? Okay, Um, Nancy,
this is Shaney. And from what we're understanding from Emily,
she was not sure where the body was. And she
kept telling this man, I think it's in Keascha I
I think it's in Keaschai. He drove her out to
Harvey County over this bridge of at least thirty times.
(10:35):
He said, I think he's out here, and he stops
the bridges and just happens to be the first bridge
just to fans off that and Lucas is under that bridge.
But if you listen to this, okay, well why why
why if you listen to the podcast audio that, yeah,
that's not what I hear. I don't hear him telling
(10:56):
her where to go. How would I mean, that's not
what happened. And when you look over the bridge, you
can't even tell, because I've seen it myself. When you
look into that gully, you can't even tell that that
is Lucas. You can't. And she told him that she
actually told him, I believe it's key Chi. I believe
(11:18):
it's key Chi. And she kept saying, I let Lucas down.
She let Lucas down because she could not defend him.
And what all is going on around her? If you
you mean because she led a homeless man in the
home that killed him and then concealed it from police,
I'm saying this homeless man did not just show up
(11:39):
on her doorstep by accident. I believe that. I'm saying
this homeless man did not show up on her doorstep
at all. But it's because it doesn't make sense to me.
How would she know where the Todds dead body was.
She led him there out of everywhere in the area.
She led him to this obscure location. The homeless man
(12:00):
show up at a doorstep because that was that was
private by which talked the police department and they took
him in and for a question. He was also arrested,
but all the other cases and they took a hand
over to the jail to talk to Emily. But she's like,
I don't know you. She was playing kind of crazy,
like I don't know you. Um, it was a it
(12:21):
was a situation that I don't think you're clear of
or any of us are really clear of. There was
drug usage going on at that time. There was things
going on in the home and the home that none
of us knew what was really going on. We've got
an innocent boy there, We've got an innocent baby girl.
But the day that Emily was taken into custody, the
(12:44):
woman had looked like she had been beaten, two black eyes,
her hands were all tore up. That was a woman fighting.
Her knuckles were completely bruised, like she was fighting to
protect somebody. That's why she says, Well, then why did
she ever tell any of that to police? Wouldn't it
be more important to find Lucas? And how would she
(13:07):
know that Lucas's body is in Key Chai? How would
she know that it wasn't even in Key Chai, that's
just that part. It was in Harvey County. Well, you
just said that. She continued to say, I think Lucas's
body is in Kee Chai. So well, then how did
she end up at an obscure bridge in the middle
(13:29):
of nowhere to tell the private eye where the body was.
He drove over that bridge over and over and he said, okay,
I'm going to tell you I think you know, or
Lucas is that isn't one of these bridges, so we'll
just stop at all of them. Nancy. I've listened to
all the audio, you know. David Marshburn, the p I
provided us every second of audio that Emily was with him,
(13:51):
and painstakingly we've all listened to six and a half
hours of it as they're driving around. And that's not
what I heard. So question to Emily's friend, where are
you getting the information as to what Marshburn said to her?
Where did that? Well? On one of the edited edit
party podcasts that you had, where it says right there
(14:11):
that he asked Emily which bridge and she's like, I
can't tell you. I don't know, and he says, then
a little this drive over all these bridges and we'll
get out and start looking. You know. I don't hear
him saying that. I don't ever recall that. But to
the point that's happening right now, Emily Glass has been shot.
Do you believe she shot herself? Ma'am, I've got and
(14:36):
I showed the police. I took my phone to night.
Jonathan Hernandez actually said last Winester Thursday, night if he's
seen Emily, he didn't know that he could keep himself
from killing her, because she asked, Jonathan, will you meet
up with me? No tape recorders, no cameras, no videos,
(14:58):
no metha, no phones. I want to talk to you
about everything that happened at night, And Jonathan told do
a friend, I can't I meet up with her because
if I do, I'm not sure I won't kill her.
Are you suggesting that the father of Lucas Hernandez shot
Emily Glass the stepmother? Yes, I am. Let me just
(15:19):
stay here that while Jonathan Hernandez, the father, was in
the home where Emily is shot and did call nine
one one. To my understanding, there is no evidence at
all that he shot Emily Glass. Right now, it is
undetermined as to the shooting. Go ahead, Dear Emily didn't
call anyone. He gets what the officers told him when
(15:42):
they got there. She he said she was code blue
by the time the officers she already deceased. Did you
know about a recent law that could leave your personal
data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned
(16:03):
on the news lately, you know the internet has created
a dangerous new world data breaches, exposed private information. There's
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sell the identity of you and your family on the
dart web. It's time you take the power back by
using a new website called truth Finder. Truth Finder allows
(16:25):
you to find out exactly what information exists about you online.
Have you gotten a speeding ticket, received a lean from
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that data together and one easy to read report. Members
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(16:46):
close to you and make sure they're not hiding something
from their past. You also get free dart web monitoring
to make truth Finder the ultimate tool in identity protection.
If your personal info appears for sale in the dark web,
you'll be the first to know. Visit truth finder dot
com slash Nancy enter your own name yet. Started throughout June,
(17:08):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three part limited series
of Hailey Dean mysteries based on characters from the New
York Times best selling books by Nancy Grace. The series
continues this Sunday, June tenth with Hailey Dean Mysteries, A
Marriage Made for Murder. It all starts at nine pm
Eastern this Sunday. Grab your popcorn and join Nancy Grace
for Hailey Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder on
(17:30):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries with Me Now. Susan Constantine, psychologist
and author of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language.
You can find her at Susan Constantine dot com, her
(17:51):
book on Amazon. Forensics expert renowned Joseph Scott, Morgan, Ashley Willcott,
juvenile judge, founder of child crime watch dot com, and
crime online investigative reporter Lee Egan um Lee Egan When
where police called to the home? As we know right now,
the stepmother under suspicion and the mistreatment of a boy
(18:15):
found dead under a bridge. Lucas Hernandez has been shot? Who, what, where? When?
And widely give it to me in a nutshell, Nancy.
What happened was Jonathan Lucas's father called around a little
after one thirty am. He said he walked into the
home off of South Edgemore and found a woman unresponsive
(18:35):
with a gunshot. When police arrived a short time later
and pronounced her dead. At this time, they're saying there's
no evidence of homicide, but they're all they're not calling
it suicide either. They're still investigating. It's still very early
in the investigation. Very early in a developing story. Emily
Glass has been shot. The person that finds her body
(18:57):
is Lucas Hernandez, his father Jonathan, who spoke with in depth,
joining me Emily's friends Shelley ever Heart. Uh, and you
are convinced that she did not shoot herself? Yes, we are.
I'm Shaaney how and she's showing ever heart. We're we're
both her, both Emily's friends and um, we're both convinced
(19:19):
you'd not shoot herself. After reading several text messages and
things of Jonathan and the last week, saying when Emily
was released from jail last week and the baby was found,
baby Lucas was found that he would not he could
not refrain himself from possibly killing her, and all she
(19:39):
wanted to do was talk to him and explain things
to him. He would not beat up with her. And
I asked Jonathan, I said, Jonathan, do don't you think
that there's enough killings going on? And he had this, um,
he's it's been enough. People have died through all this
and he put the loji sign. That's like hmm, let's
see and now Emily did tonight Take a listen to
(20:02):
what Emily Glass says from her jail cell before she
was let Scott free. Can you tell me any more
about what happened that Saturday when he disappeared? Just the
fact that it took a shower and since we took
it up like we always do, I'm putting down for
(20:26):
a movie and it's cool because you know, yeah, back
to this, please sleep. So that was why he had
a qualrified oh when he had fallen a sleep after
my shower, which is why I went down. Mm hmm,
now I gotta go. You are hearing Emily Glass as
(20:49):
she is speaking with Kate W. C H. Devin Fastbender,
and at no time does she mention anyone else in
the home as a matter of fact, through out uh
questions um explanations. The homeless man she now points to
being there emerged later. For ninety days plus search teams,
(21:14):
a t v S, dogs, helicopters, volunteers look for the boy.
It's only when private investigator Marshburn gets the stepmother in
the car. They drive for four to five hours until
she leads him to Lucas's dead body. In the last hours,
Emily Glass found shot Lucas's father, discovers her body and
(21:36):
calls nine one one with me. Two of Emily's dear friends,
Jamie Howell and Sherry Eberhart to Susan Constantine, author of
Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language on Amazon. Susan, you
have carefully combed over every single statement given by Emily Glass.
(21:58):
Explain Yeah, when I did, Nancy is I conducted statement
analysis on every single one of the statements and looking
for areas that we're connecting or disconnecting. And overall, when
I reading through there, there are several areas that just
didn't make sense. They were incongruent to what she was saying.
(22:18):
There's lots of filler words, additional words that were not there.
And you have to understand that with statement analysis, the
writer or the speaker chooses subconsciously every single word that
they put down and what they say, So every word
is examined on its own and then why is it there?
For example, when we're looking at the one you were
just talking about that they took a shower, um like
(22:42):
he always dust, making it sound as if this is
something that's routine. I put him down for a movie.
Now here's the other information in his pull up. Now
that part really doesn't really fit, does it. But there's
a reason why Emily put that in there. And then
she says, you know he has accident, all right, So
no one asked her that question. She put that in there,
(23:03):
so that's why we had pull up on him. So
when I'm reading that, that's clear to me that saying
that somewhat reason why he ended up abused is somewhere
around the reason why he had accidents, And I see
what you mean. Let me ask to the friends Jamie
Howell and Shelley Ever heard people had noticed that Lucas
(23:25):
was covered in bruises in the past. What do you,
if anything, do you know about that. Did Emily ever
explain that the bruises? Okay, this is what we've been told,
and not just by Emily but by family, because Emily
was pretty much the provider, and um not financially because
she didn't work. Jonathan did. But as far as taking
(23:47):
care of Emily, my own mom wasn't, which was Jamie
was now in the pictures, not allowed to see him
unless it was supervised. So Jamie or Emily had him
all the time him. She took him to school, she
got him home from school, she took him to the
doctor's appointment, she got him home, she dressed him very well. Um,
(24:08):
there was several times that we were told that Jonathan
went on the attacked mode of hurting his own child
and Jamie or Emily would have to pull him off,
and then Jamie or than Emily would get beat But
there's lots though. There's also a situation going on right
(24:32):
now where Jonathan attacked one of James or one of
Emily's biological sons and he's being charged for it right
now in Sedgwick County Court. Fancy this is Ashley. Could
I jump in because there's something really important I think
that all listeners need to understand about one of the
statements just made when when she stated that Emily took
(24:55):
him to the doctor a dressed him. Well, here's the
problem in our society as a whole. People tend to
leave that. That means those people that dressed their children well,
take him to the doctor, take care of them, take
them out to dinner, feed them, don't abuse or neglect
their children, And that's absolutely false statistically, and I do
not want people to continue to have a perception and
belief that just because a parent or a person who's
(25:17):
a caretaker takes the child to the doctor and dresses
him well necessarily means they're not capable of abuse or neglect,
because it does not mean that. I want to follow
up as she Willcott with child crime watch dot Com
and juvenile Judge Lee Egan with me, investigative reporter with
Crime online dot Com. Lee, when Lucas's aunt was so
(25:41):
upset about Lucas being covered in bruises? Didn't those occur
while the dad, who I think worked with the oil
companies was gone? Yes, they did. I believe what happened
was he was back in town and he was with
Emily when they were visiting the aunt and she noticed
the this then. But supposedly they happened when he was working.
(26:04):
That's why I'm hearing, but there's no confirmation of that.
I want to go back to emily glasses friends, Jamie
Howell and Shelley Eberhart here with us. They say there's
no way the gunshot wound on Emily Glass was self inflicted,
that she would never have shot herself. Question to you, guys,
(26:27):
I'm having a hard time understanding. Um. Emily Glass, as
you say, and I think you're correct, had Lucas all
the time, as you say, all the time, she did.
So if she has him all the time, she's not
responsible for all those bruises if she's got him all
the time. And did she report the abuse? Did she
(26:50):
take him to the doctor about the abuse? She apparently
kept her own child in the home with the father
even after she sees him according to her beating the child.
I mean, if my husband beat my children one time,
it would be a miracle if he walked out of
this house a lot. But I tell you another thing,
(27:12):
he would never have a second chance. There would never
be another chance to beat the children. That would not happen.
So you're telling me that she brought a homeless man
into the home, that she then takes a shower and
a nap and leaves the children with a homeless man,
wakes up, the boy is gone, does not tell police
(27:37):
about the homeless man, lets a search go on for
all this time, leads the investigator to the body. But
you don't think she had anything to do with his death. No,
I do not. What do you think happened to him? Uh?
I don't even know how to really go into sustaining
what I think happened to him, because I think that
(28:01):
there's a lot more people involved in this than just
two or three people involved in the little boy's death.
How could that be? She was the only one that
we know of in the home that she wasn't That's
that's what That's what you're okay, So let's just led
to believe by Jonathan or whatever. But Jonathan, them all
(28:21):
knew this homeless man. They all knew this homeless sin.
They've all set up, They've all set up for him,
Alan Duke, we have combed over the police reports and
the investigative reports, so we've been able to get is
there any indication that police believe anyone was in the
home other than Emily Glass when Lucas disappears. I'm not
(28:44):
aware of any and maybe Lee Egan can verify that.
You are you have been on the scene at the jailhouse.
What are you learning was there the police believe somebody
was in the home other than Emily Glass, who has
now been shot at the time Lucas goes missing. No,
they do not, at least from what they're telling us.
(29:05):
The only person of interest from what law enforcement has said,
is Emily Glass. But according to Shamie Howell and Shelley Eberhart,
there was a homeless guy in the home that she
Emily felt so comfortable with that she went to sleep
for three hours, leaving the children with a homeless guy. Well,
(29:26):
the homeless man was in the house. The problem is,
we're not sure what day he was in the house.
He did he spoke to detectives, We're not sure what
he said because they're not telling us, and shortly after
he was killed, So we're not sure when or why
he was in the home. Is there any indication he
was there when Luce Lucas went missing? Do you think
(29:47):
it had anything to do with Emily Glass's use of
metha and fhetamine? Yes? In other words, was that her
dope body? Probably? The plot seemingly thickens and now the
culmination of the search and discovery Lucas's body, as Emily
Glass has been found shot found by Lucas's father, Jonathan Hernandez,
(30:07):
who calls nine one one. Maybe the people that have
more insight than any of us. Are Emily's friends, Shelley
Eberhard and Shane Howell. Guys, thank you for being with us.
You say that so many people were involved with Lucas's death,
It's really hard for me to believe. And I'll tell
you why. And I'm not saying I'm not wrong. People
(30:31):
cannot keep their yapp shut when there's a conspiracy or
there are several people involved in wrongdoing, somebody always blabs.
It's just you know, even in Watergate with the Okay,
who do you believe are the people involved? And why
would they cover up the death of a little boy? Okay,
I believe that um uh Jenny was in something called wick.
(30:56):
They're in something called wick. Have you ever heard of it? Yes?
I have heard of wicka the a name for witchcraft.
You now think that this is part of a witchcraft plot?
I sure do, Yes, I do. And I believe that's
why everybody else that's telling their story is coming up dead.
I have been shot at, I have been ran off
(31:17):
the road, and that's a warning to me. That's just
a warning. I have been I have Facebook messages that
are warning me to back off. That's just a warning,
They say, why would you believe this has anything to
do with wicker because that's what they were into. Who
is they, Jonathan Jamie? Jamie's got the lens on the
back of her car, which is a bio. Mom, is
(31:38):
to you sacrifice your firstborn child, your birth firstborn son? Well,
you were close friends with Emily Did she try to
recruit you to Wicka? Oh? No, no, no, no, I wouldn't.
I'm not. I'm a very I believe in God. I
don't believe in anybody else but God. But then did
(32:01):
Emily Glass discussed Wicka with you? No, she discussed it
with a friend of ours. But but you were close
to her. If she was in Wicka? Whatever what? I
freaked out? I don't want to hear anything about it. Okay,
right now, this is what we know. Emily Glass has
been shot. The father of Lucas Hernandez. Call nine one one.
(32:25):
I'm just sorry. I'm so sorry for everyone's to fucking Hill's. Okay,
don't think you can do if her hair is moving forward?
And where's them? I didn't get so wrong. I didn't wrong,
(32:55):
got honest. That is Emily Glass telling private I David
Marshburn that she quote did Lucas wrong? This is as
they are finding the child's dead body, and that's what
we're losing sight of right now with all the discussion
of a conspiracy and a homeless guy on WICKA bottom line,
(33:16):
Emily Glass was in the home at the time the
talk goes missing. Emily Glass led police, excuse me, lad
a private eye to the body in an obscure location.
Emily Glass in the last hours has been shot. I
want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert, Professor
(33:38):
of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joe Scott Right now,
it's all going to Hinge on a post mortem. What
will they be looking forward to determine was this a
suicide or a homicide? Well, she's been shot, Nancy. They're
gonna be the first thing they're gonna be looking for
is evidence on the body relative to range of fire.
If this was, say, for instance, a shooting at a
(34:00):
distance that would lean or list more towards, for instance,
a homicide that some money was facing her or back
of her, whatever the attitude was, and fired into her
one thing at a time, one thing at a time. Distance.
You're right, they're gonna look to see if this if
the bullet wound was at close range. If it were
at close range, that could suggest suicide. Not necessarily. A
(34:23):
perp can hold a gun to her head or her
body and shoot her a close range. But if it's
not at close range, i e. Further than thirty six
inches away, you will not get any gunshot residue. Right
But within that, uh well, I like to I like
to pare it down to about twenty two inches out,
and in that you're going to get some kind of disposition,
(34:44):
that is the distribution of unburned gunpowder on the body
at that distance. Now one of the things they're gonna
be looking for. Slow down, slow down, got me drinking
out of fire? Hydright here, I've got u. Joseph Scott Morgan,
renowned forensics expert jose Scott The point, and that is,
if it is close range, maybe she shot herself. Maybe
(35:05):
somebody else shot her. If it's not close range, then
somebody else definitely shot her, because you can only hold
a gun x inches away from yourself and shoot yourself.
So if it's beyond say two ft, somebody else shot her.
How do we know if it's beyond two ft you
don't have gunshot residue invisible to the naked eye. When
(35:26):
the gun is discharged, residue comes out of the gun
and sprays to about thirty six inches max. So if
there's no gunshot residue on her body, then she did
not shoot herself. Next, yeah, and uh, we have to
think about you know, one of the things they're gonna
look at obviously is her arm length. You know, how
how far away is she capable of holding this? This
(35:48):
way my experience, in my experience, the line's share of
cases involving suicides are going to involve what we refer
to as hard contact or press contact gunshot wounds. The
most common area is going to be to the head,
and that means that the weapon would be tightly pressed
to the head some locational head, more than likely the
temple that's generally where people do it, or in the mouth.
(36:11):
And then okay, now to me, we're rehashing. I'll tell
you why. If it's a contact when you're not only
gonna have gunshot residue, you're gonna have searing, in other words,
a little bit of a burn around the bullet entry,
around the gun barrel itself, on the head it's hard
(36:31):
to find, but it's easy to find if you're trained professional.
Long story short, if there's burning or searing, it could
be a suicide. It could still be a homicide. I'm
beyond that. I'm to the next thing, Joe Scott. What
I'm saying is, if the shot was beyond thirty six inches,
she did not kill herself. So if there's no residue
(36:54):
on her body, then it was not thirty six inches.
I'm past the contact wound. I'm past. Now we're gonna
be looking at angle, angle entry, angle exit and entry. Explain,
what you're gonna be talking about is if say, for instance,
a perpetrator withstanding above her or at her same level,
(37:17):
the angle of entry what and that gives you an
idea of attitude and relationship between the victim and the shooter.
And so we moved beyond distance. We're talking about angle
of deflection. Now, let's say, for instance, you've got somebody
down on the floor, all right, and they're begging for
their life. That angle is going to be completely different.
If we're standing at eye level and you pull a
weapon and you shoot them in the chest or the
(37:38):
face or wherever it is that you shoot them So
that's gonna give you an idea. Remember, we can't go
back to the scene in question the victim. It's gonna
give you an idea of the dynamic that was going
on in that environment. You know, what was going on
at that particular time and where were they relative to
position in the in the dwelling in this particular case,
if she is in the dwelling, I still don't know completely. Well,
(38:01):
let's go to her friends joining me. Uh, Miss Howell
and Miss ever Heart. What are you learning about the
circumstances surrounding Emily's gunshot wound? What room was she and
was she on the floor? Was she in the bedroom
on the bed? What do we know? We were not
told we were not allowed to get close to the house.
(38:21):
You think the front rooms? I believe it from room.
I believe there might have been some kind of struggle
between the front room and maybe the back door. What's
the front room? Is that a living room or a bedroom?
What is it living room? But there is question is
this the same home you're talking about where Lucas was
last seen alive? Yes, And I do know that since
(38:45):
Lucas has passed or have been cameras hid in the home.
So I don't know if Jonathan is aware of these cameras,
but I think the witch Shot police department should be
made aware of them. And you know what's interesting, We
were told that for about a week before Lucas was
reported missing, nobody had seen him. He was absent from
(39:07):
school on no one called. He was sick with the flu.
Did you see him? Um, No, I didn't. But his
aunt which I spoke to from you at all, she
said he was sick with the flu and he was
put on bo friends to the kept hugan. So did
(39:27):
anybody see Lucas because the school was apparently never called,
and they did not. They were trying to call Emily Glass,
but she would never call back. Why Lucas had been
out of school for over a week. I believe the
one that did see him on the fourteenth February was
(39:48):
his bio mom, and she picked him up for Valentine's
Day and went and got him a gift and brought
him back February. Yes, suppose she supposedly she brought him
back the fourteen is where are you learning this? Because
there is a theory that he was dead by the eleventh. No,
(40:09):
we were told by Emily had told her grandmother and
her aunt that she was going to be introled by
Jonathan because she let Emily or she let Jamie know
where she lives, and she was not supposed to do
that because they had already moved away from one place
because Jamie was badgering them. So they had moved away,
(40:30):
and they moved into this new house. And okay, wait
a minute, well hold on, let me understand what you're saying.
If they had moved away to a secret location away
from the bio mom, then how could the bio mom
have left all those bruises on the boy. The bio didn't.
Maybe the bruises on them on him, the bio dad did.
The real father he was abusive with her, and he
(40:50):
was also abusive with Emily. All Right, she advocate and
she's been called that they're out called to work with
them before. Lee Egan, Crime Online dot Com reporter, Late,
what are you learning about the shooting? What room was
she and while she clothed? What time? Anything you can
(41:10):
tell us at this point. Nothing. I'm looking at a
live feed from k w c H and it appears
that Jonathan's truck is no longer at the house um
from the angle I'm seeing, and I did see it
there previously, and I did want to touch on something
with what one of the ladies just said about the
fourteenth UH. Law enforcement did speak with Jamie and she
(41:31):
told them that the last time she saw Lucas was
in December celebrating his birthday, and she had not seen
him in mutts mm hmm. That's an untrue statement because
just two or three weeks prior to that, she showed
up the beet Dolementary and tried to physically have a
fight with it with Emily. She showed up at the
boys school. I think that she's correct. I think that
(41:54):
that did happen. What either shouldn't miss Howard and Shelley
Amber Harder saying, I think that confrontation did happen, but
still she was not with the boy. She was not
with Lucas. The bio mom had an altercation with Emily Glass,
but she did not get Lucas. To my understanding, the
last time, according to police, the bio mom had Lucas
(42:18):
was back in December at his birthday. Ashley Walcott joining
in Juvenile Judge found her child Crime watch dot Com.
Ashley in a scenario like this, nobody's a suspect. Everybody's
a suspect because there's so many high emotions. But I
always go back to what we know as to who
was in the home at the time the boy goes
(42:40):
missing and who led Marshburn to the body. Absolutely so,
and Nancy. One of the things I've always said in
this case is she either did it, Emily, either killed
this child or she knows exactly what happened to this child,
and who is in the home goes directly to that point.
The other thing I want to say is it's really
splitting hairs to say she didn't kill this child, but
(43:02):
she wasn't comfortable, she was afraid, she didn't tell anybody
what happened or who was involved. That's the same thing.
If you know that a child is a victim of abuse, neglect, murder,
and you choose not to report it and tell everything
that happened and the truth around what happened, it's just
as bad as if you killed the child yourself. And
(43:24):
in this particular case, I think that's what's happened. Well,
what the friends are doing here is they are struggling
with the evidence, and they're struggling about what happened to
Emily Glass. They're her friends. They are defending her because
they know her in a way that we don't, and
(43:45):
it's very hard to believe for them. I'm sure that
she may have had something to do with Lucas's death
or disappearance, And for all I know, they have evidence
that I don't have. So I'm very intrigued about what
they're say. Agree with you, and I think there's a
lot of evidence to be there that needs to be
shared with law enforcement and Price so it can be investigated.
But I'm still gonna stand by what we all have
(44:06):
to keep in mind. It's all good evidence, but anything
that Emily has told them happened without some collaboration. Outside
of that, hold on just one moment. I hear that
Susan Constantine, psychologist and author, wants in Susan, you have
sifted through everything Emily Glass has said, what are your thoughts? Yeah?
(44:30):
You know. The last statement is probably the most telling,
where she says I did Lucas so wrong. I did
him wrong. Will you notice that her voice intensifies and
the word I she's taking ownership. There was not we
or us, So it shows one person did is the
word of the act I did Lucas was the victim
(44:53):
and the words so it's like saying I am so
happy to see you or I'm so upset. So is
a word that is something that happens over time. And
then she uses the word wrong. Wrong is connected to
the abuse. Something happened that created that. So when we
look at it as I did Lucas so wrong, it
is she takes ownership of the act. The victim is Lucas.
(45:16):
She did it over time, and the act was abused.
And then she says right after that, I feel so
sorry for him. When she says Phil, she's talking about
in present tense. Her voice and her words show remorse,
so you can sense that she's feeling remorseful at this
point in time. But then she says, Glass said she
put him through hell or through hell, meaning a long
(45:37):
duration of abuse. And then she gives you an affirmation
this is the God's honest truth. Well, I want to
just talk common sense for one moment. Common sense, Okay,
help me out with this. Anybody that wants in alan,
if a child you and are both parents, if a
child is missing and you don't know where they are
(46:00):
and you don't know what's happened to them, and you
had some stranger in your home, and wouldn't the first
thing you say, I had that piece of crap, Alan
Duke in my home, and now my baby's missing. Go
find Alan Duke. We gotta find Lucas, he may know.
Instead of sitting on your thumb, Alan, I mean, if
(46:25):
you don't know that Lucas is dead unless you know
where he is, why wouldn't you track the homeless guy
down yourself and go lead me to Lucas you were
with my boy? Where is he? Or I will kill you?
I mean, that never happened, and I can't imagine any
other response. I can't imagine just being quiet when you
(46:49):
know that child is under a bridge. So explained to me.
Back to Miss Eberhart and Miss Howell. See, I think
Emily Glass is the key to what happened to Lucas.
You disagree. You may know more than me, But why
would she she didn't already know Lucas was dead. Why
wouldn't she have police out that night? You said she
(47:11):
told her husband not police. Why weren't they looking for
him to find out where Lucas was? Could have saved
his life and the police for contact at first, then
her husband came in from the Mexico and then I
know that. But you said she only told her husband
about an homeless guy in the home that night. Well,
I don't really know how the police found out, because
(47:32):
they did find out because they could be them in
into custody, So somehow they did know. Was it was
the lead that they got or what they what they
did get, they did get to leave. Why didn't she
tell police that? Not when she reported him missing around
six o'clock. I told you, I think that she was fighting.
(47:53):
She had bruises on her fingers, on her knuckles, two
black eyes. I do believe there was a going at home.
Lucas was injured. She was scaring for Mia, sparing for herself.
She had already seen what whoever these people were did
to her. She just wanted to wait from so instead
of trying to save Lucas's life, I think she never
(48:16):
reported any of this. Okay, that's a theory, but this
is what I know right now. Emily Glass has been
shot and we're waiting to find out for the medical
examiner they cause and manner of death. Nancy Grace Crime
Stories signing off goodbye, friend. Did you know a recent
(48:37):
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slash Nancy, enter your own name get started. Throughout June,
(49:26):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three part limited series
of Hailey Dean Mysteries based on characters from the New
York Times best selling books by Nancy Grace. The series
continues this Sunday, June tenth with Hailey Dean Mysteries, A
Marriage Made for Murder. It All starts at nine pm
Eastern this Sunday. Grab your popcorn and join Nancy grace
for Haley Dean Mysteries, A marriage made for murder on
(49:48):
Hallmark Movies and Mysteries
Host
Nancy Grace
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