October 8, 2024 • 41 mins
Moving the trial of Bryan Kohberger nearly 300 miles from the crime scene may provide a larger jury pool, but it also creates potential hardship for some victims' families.
A GoFundMe account has been launched to help the Goncalves family raise money so they can attend the trial, now set to take place nearly 400 miles from their home. The family, living about 100 miles north of Moscow, has attended every hearing and court appointment since the legal process began and does not want that to change.
The trial of Bryan Kohberger is scheduled for next June and is expected to last about three months. The Goncalves family started the GoFundMe campaign titled "Help Kaylee Goncalves Family Attend Trial" to raise funds for accommodations, hoping to secure an Airbnb or house for all 10 family members and their small pets during the trial.
They also aim to cover loss of income, food, and other essentials. Today, father Steve Goncalves joined Nancy Grace.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Steve Goncalves - Father of Victim Kaylee Goncalves
- Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA); Author – “Deal Breaker,” Featured in Hit Show: “Paris in Love” on Peacock;, Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Chris McDonough – Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Brian Coburger trial joining
us tonight. Kaylee Gonsalvas's father is with us live. I'm
Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
My niece called.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And she was very frantic.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
And she was asking me if I had talked to Kaylee.
Katie Spudles directly voicemail circling Maddie.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Nobody's answering.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's ringing and ringing, right me, ringing.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
To return on the TV and we see live news
coverage and gives out one play hero.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Kaylee and Maddie are both dead.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
A Quadrille homicide.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
News came in that the police are responding to a
call of someone found unconscious. That's the call that originally
came in, and then they responded and then they found
before additional bodies, the four bodies of these students inside
the home. It was originally a call not retaining two
(01:20):
four dead bodies, but that's what they found when they
entered the home. It was shocking news to hear, especially
coming from just the most quiet town.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You were just hearing investigator reporter Ava Waynehouse. At the
very beginning, we didn't even understand what had happened. At
the beginning, when police were called to the King Road address,
no one knew what was to unfold. As the news unfolded,
(01:57):
it got worse and worse and worse. And that is
for us on the outside looking in. Joining me tonight
is a very special guest, Steve Gonsalves. This is Kelly
Gonsalvas's father, Steve. Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Thank you. I appreciate you supporting these kids.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I really don't even know how to take that, because
I don't know who in the world could not support
you and your family and Kelly and the other children.
There are children that were killed that night. I just
want you to know before we start that you and
(02:45):
your wife and your family are the objects of so
many prayers. I know it's hard for a lot of
people that have never suffered as a crime victim to
identify or to relate to what you're going through, but
(03:07):
I know from firsthand experience that it's horrible and that it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Never goes away.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And I look at you as you speak to the press,
as you go about your life, and I've got to
tell you, I am in so much awe and admiration
about how you continue forward, how you put one foot
in front of the other and you get up every
day and you keep going and you keep fighting. You
(03:39):
were mentioning earlier how people ask you, Hey, how did
it turn out?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
What do you mean by that? Steve?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
We have a we have a Facebook page, so we've
garnered attention from other countries, and I guess maybe from
those countries respective of it. Two years, they assume it's over.
They assume that we're done, so they they'll chime in,
they'll comment, they'll send us messages and ask us how
(04:11):
did it turn out? You know, people have their own lives,
they're running around doing their own things, and then they
catch back up. They're like, oh, yeah, what happened there
in America? And they reach out to us directly because
we've opened up those lines of communication, and we have
to tell them it hasn't even started. We have not
(04:32):
even got to a schedule yet.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
You know, when you say it hasn't even started, I've
got to tell you, going through the trial is.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Going to be pure hell. And you know that in
addition to what you've already been through.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I wonder how you and your family feel as you
see other cases hit the headline and take away focus
from what you know to be the most important case
there is. I remember when my fiance was murdered, I
felt like I had stepped off the world. And I
(05:10):
look back and amazingly, the world was still spinning. People
are still going to work, people are still going out
to nightclubs and movies and out to dinner. And I
think it was just too much for me to take
in because my world had stopped. I couldn't hear music,
I couldn't even hear the clocks ticking in the house.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
It just no no TV, nothing, Everything had to stop.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And I've been wondering how you deal with the fact
that seemingly the world is marching on.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, you're reminded of that every day you wake up
and you need to get up and go to work,
and you have all these pressing issues. So yeah, it's
part of the reason why we're is to make sure
that my daughter's case is going to get the right
(06:06):
people and the right attention and then you know the
right resolution. So you think it's a guarantee in America,
but I think those times have changed. I think you
really have to come up and you have to say
something and you have to get people involved. And I've
heard that from other people who have cases that were
never solved where they wish they could have gone back
(06:28):
and picked up that phone or opened up that door
where there's people, you know, knocking on their doors trying
to try to get the inside story. So I knew
with my child there wasn't anything I wouldn't have done to,
you know, make sure that I was talking and getting
that information out and getting people's attention that we can't
(06:50):
allow people to be go to school, go to college,
and be killed in their sleep from from some outsider.
You know, there's terrible thing is going on, but a
complete stranger hunting your child down and getting them while
they're sleeping. It's just just you can't get that through
your head that that's even possible.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Mister Gonsalves, what you just said has been my theory
from about day three, hunting them down because people always ask.
Of course, as you know now, the state doesn't have
to prove a motive, but practically speaking, a jury will
(07:32):
want to know a motive. And I believe with all
my heart from what we know now, and that may
change as a trial progresses, that the victims were hunted down.
There is no motive that we can understand normal people
(07:54):
can understand. I think you're right, mister Gonsolvist. I think
they were hunted and stalked and watched.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I know the state came out in court and said
there's no evidence of stalking, and I take that to
Maine in the legal sense, like sending Kelly emails or letters,
or leaving things at her doorstep, just showing up at
her work trying to date her. I don't think it's
stalking in that sense the way we normally think of it.
(08:27):
I think it was more, as you said, hunting.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, I'm trying to be careful how I describe some
of the things that's out there. But yeah, this is
a criminologist. This is somebody who spent you know, probably
a century studying law and getting the ins and outs.
This person knows there cannot be a direct connection and
(08:51):
easy direct connection. That's how everyone gets caught. So you
got to reverse engineer it back to what he was
doing and the steps he was taking. I think this
will go all the way back to his Pennsylvania home,
in his actual room. You're going to find out that
he planned this murder from that actual location, and he
(09:12):
left Pennsylvania with a thought and a motivation to go
out and kill someone.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You know, Steve, you are bringing up a lot of
evidentiary implications with what you just said. I think what
you're saying is entirely possible. So you believe, and I
understand you are not divulging your source.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You believe, and.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I'm interpreting that Coburger was at Pullman and upon going
back home before he started school, he had locked into
your daughter.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I don't know if he locked into the actual victims.
I just know that there's signs that point to this
individual had a lot of troubled past and he I
believe they're going to show that this crime started back there.
I think they're going to be able to prove that
(10:16):
he thought and planned and strategized this murder and came
out here picked a community. I even think the Smile
and personal film. I think he picked this area because
of some previous killers in this area, and I think
he came out here thinking that he was going to
outdo them. He was going to be that type of killer.
(10:36):
The Northwest has a history of some pretty prevalent mass murder,
serial killers, and I think he came out here with
an idea and a notion that he was going to
show them how to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't think there's any question, mister Gonsalvas, that he
was motivated. Of course, I'm just a trial lawyer and
a crime victim. I'm not a shrink. I don't think
there's any question that his attack, and of course he's
presumed innocent until proven guilty in the court of law.
(11:09):
His attack was motivated by his bizarre interest in criminals,
the criminal mind, and criminology. It could have been a
desire to know what it feels like to murder someone.
I don't know the motivation, and frankly, don't care about
(11:30):
the motivation. I care only about motiv as it relates
to what a jury will want to hear. It's all
I would care about, because to me, it doesn't matter
why he did it, matters that he did it. Question
to you, and I know you've been asked this before,
how did the whole thing start?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
For you? When? Where? How did you learn something horrible?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It happened We were sitting at home as a family.
Almost everybody was here. Olivia was living down southern California,
but everyone else was here. We were watching a football game,
and you know, we started the phone rang and we
heard that something was going on. As a father of
(12:21):
five kids, I can't tell you how many times we
think something bad has happened and the kids. We can't
find one of the kids and they're just hiding underneath
the table or something. So you try to stay calm,
and you try to tell yourself that this is just
some rumor something that's been blown out of proportion. Maybe
there was some type of accident, but it's not like
(12:45):
what it's been described to you. So you just sit
there and you start getting active. You know, we all
started grabbing computers, laptops and started searching. And then we
did see that, you know, King Road on King Road.
So then we're thinking it's a bad fight, some kind
of quarrel between a relationship with something, the things that
(13:08):
you typically hear out here in Idaho, where you know
you're going to have those types of fights and those
type of news stories, But you're never thinking it's going
to be a homicide of four people. You know, it
just that just doesn't go there. And I don't think
we even understood what happened for weeks you know, we
were just in a daze, like what you're describing, like
(13:32):
I couldn't even hear music, you know, music stopped harmonizing.
Things just don't make sense anymore. You're just you're just broken,
and you're just trying to figure out who's responsible and
what you're going to do about it, and how you're
going to get to the hold them accountable and figure
(13:52):
out the truth. You know, I really needed to know
the truth, and since that day, we've been on a
mission to make sure that we do everything to get
to the bottom of this.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Crime.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Stories with Nancy Gray. You know, Steve, I remember when
I first learned on the phone from Keith's sister that
he was dead. First of all, I didn't believe it.
I thought there had been an accident of some sort,
(14:34):
and if I could just get there really quickly, I
could fix it. I could talk to the doctors, I
could talk to the empt Somehow, I.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Didn't even know where he was, and I remember.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Not believing he was dead until I was reading upside
down what my pastor was writing and said Bernstein Funeral Home.
Then it started kind of dawning on me, and I
assumed it had been an accident until he told me
that Keith had been murdered shot. When you first got
(15:17):
that call, mister Consolvis, what were you told that allowed
you to think, well, there's been some misunderstanding, there's been
an accident.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I'm going to find out what's really happening.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like she's hiding under the table like when she did
when she was little. What were you told to make
you think, Okay, I can fix this.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I'm going to find out what's happening.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You know, I have so many other children around me
that were in so much pain that I really didn't
have a lot of time to even think about myself.
I grew up on a football team all the way
up to college, and your coaches just pounding your head
that it's not about you, it's about your team, it's
around it's about the people around you. So I kind
(16:02):
of just turned myself off and then just focused on
all these kids that were in pain. And then I said,
I'm kind of old fashioned, So I just said, you
know what, guys, we have to pick up the phone.
We have to figure out what happened. You need to
call all of her friends. And that's what they did.
They got out on social media. They started finding everything,
(16:22):
and that's when it became It still wasn't real, though,
it wasn't real, because I know my girls. I know, Maddie,
these are's like some of the sweetest, most gentle souls
that you've ever met. So gentle people don't get murdered.
It's just not It's not something that even makes sense
to you. So I don't know when it actually became real.
(16:48):
I know that when you talk about going to the funeral,
and I remember thinking just how appalling the whole thing
was and how gross it was, and how I had
to go into this place and I'm conducting business. That's
where I switched. You know, I can't be a victim.
I'm one of those guys. This is like, I'm going
to turn this on whoever did this, and I'm coming
(17:11):
for him, and I'm going to get them, and we're
going to bring wrath on this individual. And if that
means I got to wake up four in the morning
and do interviews and talk to people and work with
willing people as strangers become friends. And that's what we're
That's what we did, you know, That's what we're doing
(17:32):
right now to this day. I'm still trying to connect
dots with anyone who's listening, you know, and that includes
the prosecution team, whoever wants to pick up the phone
and reach out to us if they have something. We're
still here, We're still collecting data.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
When everything originally happened, the lack of confirmation, you know
from I mean, at first it was rumors of murder
suicide that was ruled out, things like that. When you
live in a small college town, it hurts to not
know exactly. And even forty eight hours later, when we
(18:12):
were still on seeing students who are feeling like they
wanted more from local authorities, and especially wanted more for
the families of the victims.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
Goldberger's trial officially changed venues to Ada County in hopes
of a fair trial. What's next for the suspected Idaho
students killer.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Just around three am, in fact, it might have been
even a little earlier, a man named Brian Christopher Coberger
was taken into custody in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. That is nearly
three thousand miles away, in fact, much more more than
twenty five hundred miles away from the crime scene here
in Moscow, Idaho.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's right, arrested three thousand miles away from the crime
scene at King Road, the spot where Steve Goldsolves believes
the murder plan was actually hatched. Who is Brian Coburger. Well,
we can come up with all the theories we want,
(19:17):
but I want you.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
To see Coburger on video. Now.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
This is after a female traffic cop, and I want
to emphasize a female, a lady cop had pulled him
over for a traffic violation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I was just slightly into the crosswalk. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Where I'm from Pennsylvania, we actually don't have like crosswalks.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
Oh, so interest here if you're kind of slightly Yeah,
there's a little bit more leeway as well, Like there
are a few.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Lines, Like there's one white line, there's another one.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Like there's like a like a certain margins from which
you can actually kind of quit your Viet Goo plaice
or vehicle.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (19:59):
Yeah, laws very state to state, but there is a
law in Washington for blocking an intersection like that proceeding
through and you don't when you're just stalling.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I forget the actual verbiage.
Speaker 9 (20:10):
I can find it for you, but it's like stalling
blocking an intersection. I'm just curious about Oh no.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, I can find it for you. He seems normal.
Speaker 10 (20:18):
He's actually challenging the lady cop on her knowledge of
the traffic law and actually has her look up the law.
Speaker 9 (20:29):
Listen, Okay, so I found it. So I don't know
what in Pennsylvania to the where you go to find
law has, But in Washington it's called the Revise Code
of Washington. So I'll try to turn my brightness up.
But it's basically it's just called an RCW. So it's
RCW forty six sixty one dot two zero two. So
it's no driver shall enter an intersection unless there is
(20:52):
significant space on the other side of the intersection to
accommodate the vehicle he is operating without obstructing the passage
of other vehicles, despite any traffic control signals signal indications.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And it goes on and on and on. Joining us
Tonight Live is the dad of Kili Gunsolves. Steve is
with us, but to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned
psychoalyst out of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker. You
can see her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, we see
(21:27):
not only that and the dismissive treatment, the challenging of
the lady officer.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
His car is.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
In the crosswalk while people are trying to cross.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Okay, simple, easy.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
But then we fast forward to helping out and I'm
putting that in quotes a female colleague with her home
security video when he actually hooks it up so.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
He can watch her at home.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
What changing clothes, going to the bathroom, who comes to
her front door, sitting on the sofa watching TV. I mean,
it goes from one thing to the next. Regarding women.
We see him being asked to leave bars because he
freaks women out, walking.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Up to them saying, Hey, what's your home address. It's
just on and on and on with him and women.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I'm curious as to how that played in to him fixing.
Speaker 11 (22:28):
On Kelly Nancy four psychopaths, which he most certainly is.
Sex and violence are fused, they are considered one and
the same. They go hand in hand. So with the
female cop, we can't see that he's lying prolifically. He
says there are no crosswalks in his state. He's fascinated
(22:51):
by the law because that is the thing that gives
him proximity to thinking about crimes, just like an alcoholic
might work in a bar, or a pedophile might work.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
In a school.
Speaker 11 (23:02):
A man who wants to commit murder will surround himself
with criminality. But to answer your question, I've always felt
that these girls are so beautiful and lovely that he
wanted to eradicate something good.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, when we think about what doctor Bethany just said,
the aspect steve, which I know no one likes to
think about, but proving this case will require this, the
lying in wait aspect, There's no question about it. Yes,
(23:42):
the state is said in open court there's no evidence
of stalking, but we know his phone turned up along
that strip behind the king wrote address multiple times.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
We know he was watching the house and your daughter.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, for people who aren't familiar with this area, you
don't just randomly take a right turn and find yourself
in another state. You purposely have to drive and take
like at one time we looked it up, it was
like fifteen different intersections and turns to get from Pullman
(24:21):
to anywhere close to what are these girls in Ethan work.
So it's just not like a random Oh, I just
took wrong turn here and I found myself in another state,
in a town that I'm not familiar with. This person
was very familiar with those areas, and there's not a
lot of real reasons why he should be over in
(24:44):
those areas that often. And I'm sure that is going
to be dug into quite deeply once we get into
trial time.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
When I think about the number of times that we
know of, I wonder how many times are there that
we don't don't know of that he was in that
area watching that house. I heard doctor Bethany say something
about him.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It's hard for regular people like us to relate to
what I'm about to say.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
A person that wants to eradicate destroy something good. Steve,
tell me about your daughter, my girl and boy. You know,
I have twins the same age, the same age, and
I can't imagine why someone would want to hurt them.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Tell me about Killy.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Katie was a beautiful friend. She got along with everyone.
We never even had to ever have any kind of
conflict with the school or teacher or anything along those lines.
So and Maggie, I know Maddy exactly, was the same
type of person. So I feel like, if if you
(26:07):
are a corrupted soul and you want to strike out
of society, you're going to look for somebody who's going
to matter, somebody that the world looks at and says,
that's a beautiful person. That's who I want to be
like that. That's that's a pinnacle of achieving being a
good human being. So I think that, in the end,
(26:28):
is what made them targets. It was their their beauty,
their smile, their laughter, their way they treated others. They
played by the rules, doing things the way that you
want your children and you raise your children to do so.
In a way, he was striking out when it was
a statement he was making when he picked them. I
don't like him looking like he did a white collar crime.
(26:50):
This isn't a white color crime, people. This is this
is people.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
You work your.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody
has a dream of their children going to call. You
trust the community, you trust the school, you send them off,
and then they get killed while they're asleep that night.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
In their beds.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
You know, we're going to treat this guy like he
just like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.
It's not white collar. The person who did this crime
looked at one of the victims and said, I'm here
to help you. If that's not malice, that's the most
type of evil that you could ever hear of. That
shouldn't be rewarded with.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
The suit and the first haircut every time he came.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's wild. That's wild.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
We've been told that he does have shopples around his
knees or whatnot, but it's like, you know, that's I
don't I don't want.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
To be hidden.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
You are hearing mister and missus Gonsalves, the parents of
Katie Gonsalves, speaking out crime stories, with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Two Steve Gonsalves joining us tonight.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
This is a chillies father, What do you make of
Coburger's new look with his uh, let's come metrosexual and
apparently there are female fans of his going crazy online.
(28:21):
I mean, how bass awkwards is that that this guy
would have fans demanding hair salon, trim, new clothes every
time he goes to court, not in a jury's presence.
It's like he's getting everything he wants. Every demand is
(28:44):
given to him at his whim.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, that's part of the reason why we felt the
need to get a lawyer to make sure that everything
was done by the book. And I questioned that everything was,
you know, done on paper or where where were these
rights coming from? Who was making the decisions to give
him the ability to not have normal cuffs. I just
(29:09):
don't think you any father is going to be okay
with their accused mass murderer being treated with any kind
of preferial treatment whatsoever. I'm not I'm not asking for
him to be in shackles and orange during his trial.
Everybody deserves a fair trial, and an a fair trial
means you look presentable and you don't look like a criminal.
(29:30):
But we're not even there yet. They're trying to delight everything,
and nobody's arguing that they're not trying to, you know,
push things back and won't asking for more time and
I need more years And in my mitigation, which for
people don't know, comes at the end of the trial,
but my mitigation expert witness is I need to delay it.
(29:52):
I'm just we're frustrated that he's being treated with these
these these preferential things, and we can't find them on paper.
You know, me who made this decision? I can hold
that person accountable. You know, these are elected officials. I
can hold people accountable. But if you don't put it
on paper. It makes it very hard for me to
understand who did it. So this new judges is doing
(30:14):
it by the book. Everything I've seen I like and
and that's all I'm asking. We're not asking for him
to come in there with the ball and chain and
you know, a mask over the top of him. We're
just saying, why is this man being treated different than
the criminal that comes in an hour after him or
an hour before him. Why is he being treated one
(30:34):
way as a mass murder and these other individuals are
being treated in a different manner. That's that's what we're
pointing out, and that's what we're using like forms like
this to bring to people's attention that some of these
things are questionable and we don't like him, we don't
like them one bed.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Have you seen him in court?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yes, I've definitely seen in court multiple times. The very
first chance I was given an opportunity to see him
in person, I was there. And we're going to keep
that same position where when we can be there and
it's a court hearing of any magnitude of any real
decision being making, we're going to be there.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Did he look at you?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
No, I've heard that sometimes he has looked in that direction,
but I've never seen him look at me.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I want to tell you what happened, mister Gonsalves. When
I did go to my fiance's murder trial, which was
a big blur. I thought my dad drove me, but
my mom also drove me. Had had to take off
of work, and my dad, at the time was working
for the railroad his whole life, and my mom was
payroll clerk, and they would take off to drive me.
(31:51):
Oh gosh, over two hours one way to get there,
and I never focused on the defendant. But at the
end of my testimony, I came down off a very
tall witness stand, it was equal to the judge, and
I was walking out, and I looked down at the
(32:13):
States table and I saw Keith's bloody clothes, which I
had never seen until that moment. And then I kept
walking and I came to the defense table, and I
looked at the lawyers first, because he was flanked by
a bunch of lawyers, and I looked him in the eyes,
and they looked down. And then I looked at the defendant,
(32:36):
I guess for the first time, in the face, in
the eyes, and he looked down, and none of them
would look up at me standing at the table.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
And then I walked out.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
It was dead quiet in the courtroom and all I
could hear in my boots on that marble floor walking out.
And I'm curious went through your mind when you first
saw Brian Coburger.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I don't know where I actually heard it, but I've
always heard, and it's always stuck with me that the
eyes of the opening of a man's soul. So yes,
I wanted to peer through this man's soul and understand
the best that it's possible, what kind of person this
person is. So yeah, it's not easy, but I have
(33:32):
an obligation and I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking
about what this person stepped into when he picked my daughter.
And yeah, it's it's a very uncomfortable situation. We get
people requesting all the time for us to sign off
so they can get their hands on these photos, these
(33:53):
a top of the photos, or these photos of the
crime scene. It's disgusting and we've made known.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Steve, I don't understand who is wanting you to sign
off to.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Release those photos. I mean, I've never.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I'm assuming there from other countries.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I've never seen the crime scene photos in my fiance's case.
I've never tried to see them except I was so
young when that happened. I had never even been in
a courthouse. I didn't even know what a defendant and
a plaintive was. I knew nothing. I've never gone back
to the scene where he was murdered, because for me,
(34:33):
that just means reliving it. And I have children to
raise now and I don't want to be in that
again ever. But when you say people want you to
release the crime scene photos of your daughter, what are
they thinking? They're like, they're like vultures circling. It's I
(34:57):
don't understand that. How dare they?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, clickbait, it's viewers. It's it's disgusting, and we don't
want it. We want nothing to do with any of
that disgusting behavior. And hopefully it's it's not even possible.
But as a just a regular parent, you don't know,
you don't know what's possible. I mean, so much of
(35:19):
this is so new to us, and it doesn't make sense.
So if one day I woke up and there was
pictures of our our children on a newspaper with some
blurred out stuff. I wouldn't even know what to say
or what to do or what my rights would be.
So yeah, there's definitely people out there right now who
want to make money of a crime, and they know
(35:42):
that that's something that would bring people to them. And
we're in an attention economy and these people want that.
They actually are hunting at them.
Speaker 6 (35:51):
Suspected Idaho students killer Brian Coberger gets a win as
Judge Grant's change a venue request.
Speaker 8 (36:00):
His family has attended every hearing in Brian Coberger's prosecution,
but is now forced a fundraise to afford relocating to
Boise for the trial. The family of ten released a
statement expressing their extreme disappointment in the decision, criticizing the
state's failure to cross examine the defense's witnesses effectively. Now
they are hoping to raise enough money to rent a home,
(36:21):
feed themselves, and account for three months of lost work.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Steve gonsalves, this is Cally's father. He's living in pure
hell every day, waking up to relive the day before this,
while he's got other children, his wife of course, who
was suffering as well, and now dealing with having to
(36:46):
travel to Boise hours away, miss work, set up housekeeping
there and drag.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Himself to court every day.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Mister again, please know for what solace it is to
you that you and your family are the object of
so many prayers, and I hate what you are.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
About to go through.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
It's a horrible ordeal where you'll have to relive everything
that happened from the first moment you picked that phone
up and learn that something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Up to the moment in court, and you will be looking.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Right at Brian Koberger the entire time, if he will
even meet your gaze, which I doubt.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Why Why is this trial moved?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I understand to protect it on appeal if we get
a conviction, But my question to you, the hardship is
going to bring upon you and your family. You've set
up a gofund me I want to talk about it's important.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
That you have the go fund me.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Help Kieli Gounsolves's family attend trial, explain the hardship it
will bring on you and your family.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
State.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I'm literally running to like the equivalent of a train
wreck that has my daughter it and Maddie. I don't
want to be in that courtroom. I don't want to
see and hear what I'm going to have to hear.
But my daughter deserves it. She's beautiful, She's everything to us,
and I have to be there for her. And I
(38:36):
I'm going to be willing to hear and see things
that I never ever thought i'd ever have to be facing.
But I have to. Knowing what I know, I can't
sit on the sideline. I mean, I have a lawyer
who was a prosecutor who prosecuted murder cases, and he said,
(38:58):
nothing is more impact to that jury than to see
firsthand the damage that this person is done to the
people that are important to them.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Steve, you have to be there.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I know in your own heart you feel you have
to be there, but as a felon, a prosecutor over
a decade, you have to be there, and you have
to have your wife there, and you have to have
the entire family there, and they have to be on
the very front row behind the prosecution. There's no way
(39:34):
for this cup to be taken away from you. There's
no way you can't show up. You understand that, right
I do, and.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I don't want to put it on anyone else. But
I hope, I hope all all families find the strength
to at least be there at certain key moments because
they are all these children. People need to understand and
how much pain and how beautiful these people were. And
(40:05):
the only way that you can really show them that
it is through your face, through your emotions, through you
being there supporting them. And yes it's grulish, and yes
it's gross, and we don't want to be there, but
I feel I have to be there. My family will
be there. But I know we're not the only victims.
(40:25):
And I know that some people think that we're just
trying to draw the attention to ours. It's not that
I just can't ask other people to walk my path.
I can only walk mine and my family I can
walk and coach and counsel them. But I hope everybody
finds some strength to let that courtroom understand what the
(40:49):
world is missing.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Mister Gonsalvez, thank you for being with us tonight. And
I cannot imagine any father doing a better job for
his child than you are doing tonight and every night
for Kelly, and I'm just very proud that we got
to speak with you. For those of you watching or
(41:13):
listening now, please help Kelly Gonsolves his family attend her trial.
It will be a long and arduous ordeal for them.
They are leaving their home, they are leaving their jobs
in doing without, to be in court and fight for her.
(41:36):
I want to thank mister Gonsalves for being with us.
I also want to thank you for joining us here.
Nancy Gray signing off, good bye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Brian Coburger trial joining
us tonight. Kaylee Gonsalvas's father is with us live. I'm
Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
My niece called.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
And she was very frantic.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
And she was asking me if I had talked to Kaylee.
Katie Spudles directly voicemail circling Maddie.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Nobody's answering.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
It's ringing and ringing, right me, ringing.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
To return on the TV and we see live news
coverage and gives out one play hero.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Kaylee and Maddie are both dead.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
A Quadrille homicide.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
News came in that the police are responding to a
call of someone found unconscious. That's the call that originally
came in, and then they responded and then they found
before additional bodies, the four bodies of these students inside
the home. It was originally a call not retaining two
(01:20):
four dead bodies, but that's what they found when they
entered the home. It was shocking news to hear, especially
coming from just the most quiet town.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You were just hearing investigator reporter Ava Waynehouse. At the
very beginning, we didn't even understand what had happened. At
the beginning, when police were called to the King Road address,
no one knew what was to unfold. As the news unfolded,
(01:57):
it got worse and worse and worse. And that is
for us on the outside looking in. Joining me tonight
is a very special guest, Steve Gonsalves. This is Kelly
Gonsalvas's father, Steve. Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Thank you. I appreciate you supporting these kids.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I really don't even know how to take that, because
I don't know who in the world could not support
you and your family and Kelly and the other children.
There are children that were killed that night. I just
want you to know before we start that you and
(02:45):
your wife and your family are the objects of so
many prayers. I know it's hard for a lot of
people that have never suffered as a crime victim to
identify or to relate to what you're going through, but
(03:07):
I know from firsthand experience that it's horrible and that it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Never goes away.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And I look at you as you speak to the press,
as you go about your life, and I've got to
tell you, I am in so much awe and admiration
about how you continue forward, how you put one foot
in front of the other and you get up every
day and you keep going and you keep fighting. You
(03:39):
were mentioning earlier how people ask you, Hey, how did
it turn out?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
What do you mean by that? Steve?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
We have a we have a Facebook page, so we've
garnered attention from other countries, and I guess maybe from
those countries respective of it. Two years, they assume it's over.
They assume that we're done, so they they'll chime in,
they'll comment, they'll send us messages and ask us how
(04:11):
did it turn out? You know, people have their own lives,
they're running around doing their own things, and then they
catch back up. They're like, oh, yeah, what happened there
in America? And they reach out to us directly because
we've opened up those lines of communication, and we have
to tell them it hasn't even started. We have not
(04:32):
even got to a schedule yet.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
You know, when you say it hasn't even started, I've
got to tell you, going through the trial is.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Going to be pure hell. And you know that in
addition to what you've already been through.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I wonder how you and your family feel as you
see other cases hit the headline and take away focus
from what you know to be the most important case
there is. I remember when my fiance was murdered, I
felt like I had stepped off the world. And I
(05:10):
look back and amazingly, the world was still spinning. People
are still going to work, people are still going out
to nightclubs and movies and out to dinner. And I
think it was just too much for me to take
in because my world had stopped. I couldn't hear music,
I couldn't even hear the clocks ticking in the house.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
It just no no TV, nothing, Everything had to stop.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And I've been wondering how you deal with the fact
that seemingly the world is marching on.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, you're reminded of that every day you wake up
and you need to get up and go to work,
and you have all these pressing issues. So yeah, it's
part of the reason why we're is to make sure
that my daughter's case is going to get the right
(06:06):
people and the right attention and then you know the
right resolution. So you think it's a guarantee in America,
but I think those times have changed. I think you
really have to come up and you have to say
something and you have to get people involved. And I've
heard that from other people who have cases that were
never solved where they wish they could have gone back
(06:28):
and picked up that phone or opened up that door
where there's people, you know, knocking on their doors trying
to try to get the inside story. So I knew
with my child there wasn't anything I wouldn't have done to,
you know, make sure that I was talking and getting
that information out and getting people's attention that we can't
(06:50):
allow people to be go to school, go to college,
and be killed in their sleep from from some outsider.
You know, there's terrible thing is going on, but a
complete stranger hunting your child down and getting them while
they're sleeping. It's just just you can't get that through
your head that that's even possible.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Mister Gonsalves, what you just said has been my theory
from about day three, hunting them down because people always ask.
Of course, as you know now, the state doesn't have
to prove a motive, but practically speaking, a jury will
(07:32):
want to know a motive. And I believe with all
my heart from what we know now, and that may
change as a trial progresses, that the victims were hunted down.
There is no motive that we can understand normal people
(07:54):
can understand. I think you're right, mister Gonsolvist. I think
they were hunted and stalked and watched.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I know the state came out in court and said
there's no evidence of stalking, and I take that to
Maine in the legal sense, like sending Kelly emails or letters,
or leaving things at her doorstep, just showing up at
her work trying to date her. I don't think it's
stalking in that sense the way we normally think of it.
(08:27):
I think it was more, as you said, hunting.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, I'm trying to be careful how I describe some
of the things that's out there. But yeah, this is
a criminologist. This is somebody who spent you know, probably
a century studying law and getting the ins and outs.
This person knows there cannot be a direct connection and
(08:51):
easy direct connection. That's how everyone gets caught. So you
got to reverse engineer it back to what he was
doing and the steps he was taking. I think this
will go all the way back to his Pennsylvania home,
in his actual room. You're going to find out that
he planned this murder from that actual location, and he
(09:12):
left Pennsylvania with a thought and a motivation to go
out and kill someone.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
You know, Steve, you are bringing up a lot of
evidentiary implications with what you just said. I think what
you're saying is entirely possible. So you believe, and I
understand you are not divulging your source.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
You believe, and.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I'm interpreting that Coburger was at Pullman and upon going
back home before he started school, he had locked into
your daughter.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I don't know if he locked into the actual victims.
I just know that there's signs that point to this
individual had a lot of troubled past and he I
believe they're going to show that this crime started back there.
I think they're going to be able to prove that
(10:16):
he thought and planned and strategized this murder and came
out here picked a community. I even think the Smile
and personal film. I think he picked this area because
of some previous killers in this area, and I think
he came out here thinking that he was going to
outdo them. He was going to be that type of killer.
(10:36):
The Northwest has a history of some pretty prevalent mass murder,
serial killers, and I think he came out here with
an idea and a notion that he was going to
show them how to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't think there's any question, mister Gonsalvas, that he
was motivated. Of course, I'm just a trial lawyer and
a crime victim. I'm not a shrink. I don't think
there's any question that his attack, and of course he's
presumed innocent until proven guilty in the court of law.
(11:09):
His attack was motivated by his bizarre interest in criminals,
the criminal mind, and criminology. It could have been a
desire to know what it feels like to murder someone.
I don't know the motivation, and frankly, don't care about
(11:30):
the motivation. I care only about motiv as it relates
to what a jury will want to hear. It's all
I would care about, because to me, it doesn't matter
why he did it, matters that he did it. Question
to you, and I know you've been asked this before,
how did the whole thing start?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
For you? When? Where? How did you learn something horrible?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
It happened We were sitting at home as a family.
Almost everybody was here. Olivia was living down southern California,
but everyone else was here. We were watching a football game,
and you know, we started the phone rang and we
heard that something was going on. As a father of
(12:21):
five kids, I can't tell you how many times we
think something bad has happened and the kids. We can't
find one of the kids and they're just hiding underneath
the table or something. So you try to stay calm,
and you try to tell yourself that this is just
some rumor something that's been blown out of proportion. Maybe
there was some type of accident, but it's not like
(12:45):
what it's been described to you. So you just sit
there and you start getting active. You know, we all
started grabbing computers, laptops and started searching. And then we
did see that, you know, King Road on King Road.
So then we're thinking it's a bad fight, some kind
of quarrel between a relationship with something, the things that
(13:08):
you typically hear out here in Idaho, where you know
you're going to have those types of fights and those
type of news stories, But you're never thinking it's going
to be a homicide of four people. You know, it
just that just doesn't go there. And I don't think
we even understood what happened for weeks you know, we
were just in a daze, like what you're describing, like
(13:32):
I couldn't even hear music, you know, music stopped harmonizing.
Things just don't make sense anymore. You're just you're just broken,
and you're just trying to figure out who's responsible and
what you're going to do about it, and how you're
going to get to the hold them accountable and figure
(13:52):
out the truth. You know, I really needed to know
the truth, and since that day, we've been on a
mission to make sure that we do everything to get
to the bottom of this.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Crime.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Stories with Nancy Gray. You know, Steve, I remember when
I first learned on the phone from Keith's sister that
he was dead. First of all, I didn't believe it.
I thought there had been an accident of some sort,
(14:34):
and if I could just get there really quickly, I
could fix it. I could talk to the doctors, I
could talk to the empt Somehow, I.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Didn't even know where he was, and I remember.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Not believing he was dead until I was reading upside
down what my pastor was writing and said Bernstein Funeral Home.
Then it started kind of dawning on me, and I
assumed it had been an accident until he told me
that Keith had been murdered shot. When you first got
(15:17):
that call, mister Consolvis, what were you told that allowed
you to think, well, there's been some misunderstanding, there's been
an accident.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I'm going to find out what's really happening.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Like she's hiding under the table like when she did
when she was little. What were you told to make
you think, Okay, I can fix this.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I'm going to find out what's happening.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You know, I have so many other children around me
that were in so much pain that I really didn't
have a lot of time to even think about myself.
I grew up on a football team all the way
up to college, and your coaches just pounding your head
that it's not about you, it's about your team, it's
around it's about the people around you. So I kind
(16:02):
of just turned myself off and then just focused on
all these kids that were in pain. And then I said,
I'm kind of old fashioned, So I just said, you
know what, guys, we have to pick up the phone.
We have to figure out what happened. You need to
call all of her friends. And that's what they did.
They got out on social media. They started finding everything,
(16:22):
and that's when it became It still wasn't real, though,
it wasn't real, because I know my girls. I know, Maddie,
these are's like some of the sweetest, most gentle souls
that you've ever met. So gentle people don't get murdered.
It's just not It's not something that even makes sense
to you. So I don't know when it actually became real.
(16:48):
I know that when you talk about going to the funeral,
and I remember thinking just how appalling the whole thing
was and how gross it was, and how I had
to go into this place and I'm conducting business. That's
where I switched. You know, I can't be a victim.
I'm one of those guys. This is like, I'm going
to turn this on whoever did this, and I'm coming
(17:11):
for him, and I'm going to get them, and we're
going to bring wrath on this individual. And if that
means I got to wake up four in the morning
and do interviews and talk to people and work with
willing people as strangers become friends. And that's what we're
That's what we did, you know, That's what we're doing
(17:32):
right now to this day. I'm still trying to connect
dots with anyone who's listening, you know, and that includes
the prosecution team, whoever wants to pick up the phone
and reach out to us if they have something. We're
still here, We're still collecting data.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
When everything originally happened, the lack of confirmation, you know
from I mean, at first it was rumors of murder
suicide that was ruled out, things like that. When you
live in a small college town, it hurts to not
know exactly. And even forty eight hours later, when we
(18:12):
were still on seeing students who are feeling like they
wanted more from local authorities, and especially wanted more for
the families of the victims.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
Goldberger's trial officially changed venues to Ada County in hopes
of a fair trial. What's next for the suspected Idaho
students killer.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Just around three am, in fact, it might have been
even a little earlier, a man named Brian Christopher Coberger
was taken into custody in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. That is nearly
three thousand miles away, in fact, much more more than
twenty five hundred miles away from the crime scene here
in Moscow, Idaho.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's right, arrested three thousand miles away from the crime
scene at King Road, the spot where Steve Goldsolves believes
the murder plan was actually hatched. Who is Brian Coburger. Well,
we can come up with all the theories we want,
(19:17):
but I want you.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
To see Coburger on video. Now.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
This is after a female traffic cop, and I want
to emphasize a female, a lady cop had pulled him
over for a traffic violation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
I was just slightly into the crosswalk. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
Where I'm from Pennsylvania, we actually don't have like crosswalks.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
Oh, so interest here if you're kind of slightly Yeah,
there's a little bit more leeway as well, Like there
are a few.
Speaker 5 (19:48):
Lines, Like there's one white line, there's another one.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
Like there's like a like a certain margins from which
you can actually kind of quit your Viet Goo plaice
or vehicle.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (19:59):
Yeah, laws very state to state, but there is a
law in Washington for blocking an intersection like that proceeding
through and you don't when you're just stalling.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I forget the actual verbiage.
Speaker 9 (20:10):
I can find it for you, but it's like stalling
blocking an intersection. I'm just curious about Oh no.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Yeah, I can find it for you. He seems normal.
Speaker 10 (20:18):
He's actually challenging the lady cop on her knowledge of
the traffic law and actually has her look up the law.
Speaker 9 (20:29):
Listen, Okay, so I found it. So I don't know
what in Pennsylvania to the where you go to find
law has, But in Washington it's called the Revise Code
of Washington. So I'll try to turn my brightness up.
But it's basically it's just called an RCW. So it's
RCW forty six sixty one dot two zero two. So
it's no driver shall enter an intersection unless there is
(20:52):
significant space on the other side of the intersection to
accommodate the vehicle he is operating without obstructing the passage
of other vehicles, despite any traffic control signals signal indications.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And it goes on and on and on. Joining us
Tonight Live is the dad of Kili Gunsolves. Steve is
with us, but to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned
psychoalyst out of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker. You
can see her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, we see
(21:27):
not only that and the dismissive treatment, the challenging of
the lady officer.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
His car is.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
In the crosswalk while people are trying to cross.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Okay, simple, easy.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
But then we fast forward to helping out and I'm
putting that in quotes a female colleague with her home
security video when he actually hooks it up so.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
He can watch her at home.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
What changing clothes, going to the bathroom, who comes to
her front door, sitting on the sofa watching TV. I mean,
it goes from one thing to the next. Regarding women.
We see him being asked to leave bars because he
freaks women out, walking.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Up to them saying, Hey, what's your home address. It's
just on and on and on with him and women.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I'm curious as to how that played in to him fixing.
Speaker 11 (22:28):
On Kelly Nancy four psychopaths, which he most certainly is.
Sex and violence are fused, they are considered one and
the same. They go hand in hand. So with the
female cop, we can't see that he's lying prolifically. He
says there are no crosswalks in his state. He's fascinated
(22:51):
by the law because that is the thing that gives
him proximity to thinking about crimes, just like an alcoholic
might work in a bar, or a pedophile might work.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
In a school.
Speaker 11 (23:02):
A man who wants to commit murder will surround himself
with criminality. But to answer your question, I've always felt
that these girls are so beautiful and lovely that he
wanted to eradicate something good.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, when we think about what doctor Bethany just said,
the aspect steve, which I know no one likes to
think about, but proving this case will require this, the
lying in wait aspect, There's no question about it. Yes,
(23:42):
the state is said in open court there's no evidence
of stalking, but we know his phone turned up along
that strip behind the king wrote address multiple times.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
We know he was watching the house and your daughter.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, for people who aren't familiar with this area, you
don't just randomly take a right turn and find yourself
in another state. You purposely have to drive and take
like at one time we looked it up, it was
like fifteen different intersections and turns to get from Pullman
(24:21):
to anywhere close to what are these girls in Ethan work.
So it's just not like a random Oh, I just
took wrong turn here and I found myself in another state,
in a town that I'm not familiar with. This person
was very familiar with those areas, and there's not a
lot of real reasons why he should be over in
(24:44):
those areas that often. And I'm sure that is going
to be dug into quite deeply once we get into
trial time.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
When I think about the number of times that we
know of, I wonder how many times are there that
we don't don't know of that he was in that
area watching that house. I heard doctor Bethany say something
about him.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
It's hard for regular people like us to relate to
what I'm about to say.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
A person that wants to eradicate destroy something good. Steve,
tell me about your daughter, my girl and boy. You know,
I have twins the same age, the same age, and
I can't imagine why someone would want to hurt them.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Tell me about Killy.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Katie was a beautiful friend. She got along with everyone.
We never even had to ever have any kind of
conflict with the school or teacher or anything along those lines.
So and Maggie, I know Maddy exactly, was the same
type of person. So I feel like, if if you
(26:07):
are a corrupted soul and you want to strike out
of society, you're going to look for somebody who's going
to matter, somebody that the world looks at and says,
that's a beautiful person. That's who I want to be
like that. That's that's a pinnacle of achieving being a
good human being. So I think that, in the end,
(26:28):
is what made them targets. It was their their beauty,
their smile, their laughter, their way they treated others. They
played by the rules, doing things the way that you
want your children and you raise your children to do so.
In a way, he was striking out when it was
a statement he was making when he picked them. I
don't like him looking like he did a white collar crime.
(26:50):
This isn't a white color crime, people. This is this
is people.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
You work your.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody
has a dream of their children going to call. You
trust the community, you trust the school, you send them off,
and then they get killed while they're asleep that night.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
In their beds.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
You know, we're going to treat this guy like he
just like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.
It's not white collar. The person who did this crime
looked at one of the victims and said, I'm here
to help you. If that's not malice, that's the most
type of evil that you could ever hear of. That
shouldn't be rewarded with.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
The suit and the first haircut every time he came.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That's wild. That's wild.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
We've been told that he does have shopples around his
knees or whatnot, but it's like, you know, that's I
don't I don't want.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
To be hidden.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
You are hearing mister and missus Gonsalves, the parents of
Katie Gonsalves, speaking out crime stories, with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Two Steve Gonsalves joining us tonight.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
This is a chillies father, What do you make of
Coburger's new look with his uh, let's come metrosexual and
apparently there are female fans of his going crazy online.
(28:21):
I mean, how bass awkwards is that that this guy
would have fans demanding hair salon, trim, new clothes every
time he goes to court, not in a jury's presence.
It's like he's getting everything he wants. Every demand is
(28:44):
given to him at his whim.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah, that's part of the reason why we felt the
need to get a lawyer to make sure that everything
was done by the book. And I questioned that everything was,
you know, done on paper or where where were these
rights coming from? Who was making the decisions to give
him the ability to not have normal cuffs. I just
(29:09):
don't think you any father is going to be okay
with their accused mass murderer being treated with any kind
of preferial treatment whatsoever. I'm not I'm not asking for
him to be in shackles and orange during his trial.
Everybody deserves a fair trial, and an a fair trial
means you look presentable and you don't look like a criminal.
(29:30):
But we're not even there yet. They're trying to delight everything,
and nobody's arguing that they're not trying to, you know,
push things back and won't asking for more time and
I need more years And in my mitigation, which for
people don't know, comes at the end of the trial,
but my mitigation expert witness is I need to delay it.
(29:52):
I'm just we're frustrated that he's being treated with these
these these preferential things, and we can't find them on paper.
You know, me who made this decision? I can hold
that person accountable. You know, these are elected officials. I
can hold people accountable. But if you don't put it
on paper. It makes it very hard for me to
understand who did it. So this new judges is doing
(30:14):
it by the book. Everything I've seen I like and
and that's all I'm asking. We're not asking for him
to come in there with the ball and chain and
you know, a mask over the top of him. We're
just saying, why is this man being treated different than
the criminal that comes in an hour after him or
an hour before him. Why is he being treated one
(30:34):
way as a mass murder and these other individuals are
being treated in a different manner. That's that's what we're
pointing out, and that's what we're using like forms like
this to bring to people's attention that some of these
things are questionable and we don't like him, we don't
like them one bed.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Have you seen him in court?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yes, I've definitely seen in court multiple times. The very
first chance I was given an opportunity to see him
in person, I was there. And we're going to keep
that same position where when we can be there and
it's a court hearing of any magnitude of any real
decision being making, we're going to be there.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Did he look at you?
Speaker 2 (31:20):
No, I've heard that sometimes he has looked in that direction,
but I've never seen him look at me.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I want to tell you what happened, mister Gonsalves. When
I did go to my fiance's murder trial, which was
a big blur. I thought my dad drove me, but
my mom also drove me. Had had to take off
of work, and my dad, at the time was working
for the railroad his whole life, and my mom was
payroll clerk, and they would take off to drive me.
(31:51):
Oh gosh, over two hours one way to get there,
and I never focused on the defendant. But at the
end of my testimony, I came down off a very
tall witness stand, it was equal to the judge, and
I was walking out, and I looked down at the
(32:13):
States table and I saw Keith's bloody clothes, which I
had never seen until that moment. And then I kept
walking and I came to the defense table, and I
looked at the lawyers first, because he was flanked by
a bunch of lawyers, and I looked him in the eyes,
and they looked down. And then I looked at the defendant,
(32:36):
I guess for the first time, in the face, in
the eyes, and he looked down, and none of them
would look up at me standing at the table.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
And then I walked out.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
It was dead quiet in the courtroom and all I
could hear in my boots on that marble floor walking out.
And I'm curious went through your mind when you first
saw Brian Coburger.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I don't know where I actually heard it, but I've
always heard, and it's always stuck with me that the
eyes of the opening of a man's soul. So yes,
I wanted to peer through this man's soul and understand
the best that it's possible, what kind of person this
person is. So yeah, it's not easy, but I have
(33:32):
an obligation and I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking
about what this person stepped into when he picked my daughter.
And yeah, it's it's a very uncomfortable situation. We get
people requesting all the time for us to sign off
so they can get their hands on these photos, these
(33:53):
a top of the photos, or these photos of the
crime scene. It's disgusting and we've made known.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Steve, I don't understand who is wanting you to sign
off to.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Release those photos. I mean, I've never.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I'm assuming there from other countries.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I've never seen the crime scene photos in my fiance's case.
I've never tried to see them except I was so
young when that happened. I had never even been in
a courthouse. I didn't even know what a defendant and
a plaintive was. I knew nothing. I've never gone back
to the scene where he was murdered, because for me,
(34:33):
that just means reliving it. And I have children to
raise now and I don't want to be in that
again ever. But when you say people want you to
release the crime scene photos of your daughter, what are
they thinking? They're like, they're like vultures circling. It's I
(34:57):
don't understand that. How dare they?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, clickbait, it's viewers. It's it's disgusting, and we don't
want it. We want nothing to do with any of
that disgusting behavior. And hopefully it's it's not even possible.
But as a just a regular parent, you don't know,
you don't know what's possible. I mean, so much of
(35:19):
this is so new to us, and it doesn't make sense.
So if one day I woke up and there was
pictures of our our children on a newspaper with some
blurred out stuff. I wouldn't even know what to say
or what to do or what my rights would be.
So yeah, there's definitely people out there right now who
want to make money of a crime, and they know
(35:42):
that that's something that would bring people to them. And
we're in an attention economy and these people want that.
They actually are hunting at them.
Speaker 6 (35:51):
Suspected Idaho students killer Brian Coberger gets a win as
Judge Grant's change a venue request.
Speaker 8 (36:00):
His family has attended every hearing in Brian Coberger's prosecution,
but is now forced a fundraise to afford relocating to
Boise for the trial. The family of ten released a
statement expressing their extreme disappointment in the decision, criticizing the
state's failure to cross examine the defense's witnesses effectively. Now
they are hoping to raise enough money to rent a home,
(36:21):
feed themselves, and account for three months of lost work.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Steve gonsalves, this is Cally's father. He's living in pure
hell every day, waking up to relive the day before this,
while he's got other children, his wife of course, who
was suffering as well, and now dealing with having to
(36:46):
travel to Boise hours away, miss work, set up housekeeping
there and drag.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Himself to court every day.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Mister again, please know for what solace it is to
you that you and your family are the object of
so many prayers, and I hate what you are.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
About to go through.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
It's a horrible ordeal where you'll have to relive everything
that happened from the first moment you picked that phone
up and learn that something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Up to the moment in court, and you will be looking.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Right at Brian Koberger the entire time, if he will
even meet your gaze, which I doubt.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Why Why is this trial moved?
Speaker 1 (37:44):
I understand to protect it on appeal if we get
a conviction, But my question to you, the hardship is
going to bring upon you and your family. You've set
up a gofund me I want to talk about it's important.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
That you have the go fund me.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Help Kieli Gounsolves's family attend trial, explain the hardship it
will bring on you and your family.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
State.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
I'm literally running to like the equivalent of a train
wreck that has my daughter it and Maddie. I don't
want to be in that courtroom. I don't want to
see and hear what I'm going to have to hear.
But my daughter deserves it. She's beautiful, She's everything to us,
and I have to be there for her. And I
(38:36):
I'm going to be willing to hear and see things
that I never ever thought i'd ever have to be facing.
But I have to. Knowing what I know, I can't
sit on the sideline. I mean, I have a lawyer
who was a prosecutor who prosecuted murder cases, and he said,
(38:58):
nothing is more impact to that jury than to see
firsthand the damage that this person is done to the
people that are important to them.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Steve, you have to be there.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I know in your own heart you feel you have
to be there, but as a felon, a prosecutor over
a decade, you have to be there, and you have
to have your wife there, and you have to have
the entire family there, and they have to be on
the very front row behind the prosecution. There's no way
(39:34):
for this cup to be taken away from you. There's
no way you can't show up. You understand that, right
I do, and.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I don't want to put it on anyone else. But
I hope, I hope all all families find the strength
to at least be there at certain key moments because
they are all these children. People need to understand and
how much pain and how beautiful these people were. And
(40:05):
the only way that you can really show them that
it is through your face, through your emotions, through you
being there supporting them. And yes it's grulish, and yes
it's gross, and we don't want to be there, but
I feel I have to be there. My family will
be there. But I know we're not the only victims.
(40:25):
And I know that some people think that we're just
trying to draw the attention to ours. It's not that
I just can't ask other people to walk my path.
I can only walk mine and my family I can
walk and coach and counsel them. But I hope everybody
finds some strength to let that courtroom understand what the
(40:49):
world is missing.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Mister Gonsalvez, thank you for being with us tonight. And
I cannot imagine any father doing a better job for
his child than you are doing tonight and every night
for Kelly, and I'm just very proud that we got
to speak with you. For those of you watching or
(41:13):
listening now, please help Kelly Gonsolves his family attend her trial.
It will be a long and arduous ordeal for them.
They are leaving their home, they are leaving their jobs
in doing without, to be in court and fight for her.
(41:36):
I want to thank mister Gonsalves for being with us.
I also want to thank you for joining us here.
Nancy Gray signing off, good bye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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