March 12, 2024 • 42 mins
April 23, 1993: the owner of Ajax Liquor store, Steve Weltig, is found dead on the floor on the floor of his shop. Investigators say it appears a struggle took place just before Weltig is shot in the head.
Detectives work the case and develop a suspect sketch, but no real evidence leading to a killer is found and the case goes cold. The case is assigned to different investigators over the years. New leads are investigated, and evidence is collected. In 2015, reliable tips led detectives to Loril Harp. Harp's former wife contacted police and told them Loril Harp shot Weltig.
She tells detectives she did not drive her former husband to the liquor store on the day of the murder. She was at home and when Harp came home that morning he immediately took a shower. She tells police her ex-husband tells her he just shot a man in an Arnold liquor store.
A friend and former co-worker of Weltig's also tells Arnold police that Harp told him that he shot Weltig. Harp is brought in for an interview but investigators fail to gather enough evidence to seek charges for the murder.
Twenty-seven years after the murder of Steve Weltig, another set of detectives take over the case. Looking back over the case file, they watch the 2015 interview with Loril Harp. In that interview, detectives leave the room for a few minutes.
During the break, Loril Harp makes a call on his cell phone and what he says lights a fire under the investigation. Loril Harp tells the person on the phone that he is not under arrest, but "I probably will be before I leave here."
The detectives recognize this as a near admission that Loril Harp is expecting something after all these years. Harp is brought back in for a new interview.
Investigators Cpl. Brett Acklermann and Detective Corporal Josh Wineinger spend hours talking to Loril Harp. At 68 years old, Harp is in bad health and needs 24-hour nursing care. During his interview with the detectives, Loril Harp says he did not shoot Steve Weltig multiple times.
Harp admits that he and Weltig got into a fight, and Harp says he hit Weltig a few times and left. Harp claims he went home and took a shower, right away. And the detectives begin talking about cleaning up the blood when Harp is asked if he had a little blood on him, Harp replies "I must have if I shot him."
This phrase is all detectives need.
Joining Nancy Grace Today
- Darryl Cohen – Former Assistant District Attorney (Fulton County, Georgia) Former Assistant State Attorney (Florida), and Defense Attorney: Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC; Facebook: “Darryl B Cohen;” X: @DarrylBCohen
- Dr. Jorey L. Krawczyn - Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide”
- Detective Corporal Josh Wineinger - Arnold Police Department
- Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School
- Tony Krausz - Leader Newspaper Reporter; Facebook, IG, TikTok, YouTube & X: @myleaderpaper
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime stories with Nancy Greece.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Loose lips sink ships. Truer words were never spoken. Now.
That phraseology came from Great Britain around the time of
the World War, when the Brits were convinced rightly so
that spies were everywhere, so if you knew anything about
(00:40):
the battle raging across the world, keep your pie hole shut. Well,
it didn't always work, and today is a prime example
of a murder suspect busted in a police station after
he incriminates himself when detectives leave the room. Is nobody
(01:08):
watching TV? Don't they know? For somebody on the other
side of that mirror watching you, or that there are
cameras watching you that pick up audio as well. What
cave is this guy living in? He's got to be
living under a rock in a cave on the other
(01:28):
side of the world with definitely no cable TV where
he would have seen JINXD for Pete's sake, where millionaire
Robert Durst said, of course I did it under his
breath and it was caught on a microphone. Anyway, he
did it, and he went years without being caught until
(01:50):
his inadverent loose lips suck his ship, I mean, is
he grace? This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with
us here at Crime Stories and on serious Excit. One eleven.
How did the whole things start? Well, of course, at
a liquor store. Take a listen.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
On the morning of April twenty third, nineteen ninety three,
a couple stops by Ajax liquor store to pick up
a pack of cigarettes and finds the owner of the store,
Steve Weltig, on the floor dead. Investigators notice it appears
that a struggle took place prior to wel Tag being
shot in the head. Major Key Squad detectives work the
case and developed several leads, as well as a suspect sketch,
(02:27):
but no real evidence leading to a killer is ever
found and the case goes cold.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Okay, straight out to high profile lawyer, former prosecutor in
inter city Atlanta defense attorney Darryl Cohen. Darryl Cohen, thank
you for being with us. Why does everybody say they
were in the liquor store just to buy cigarettes.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, because no one goes to a liquor store to
buy liquor, because that there are all these boot layers. Nancy,
when you start making up lives that become more and
more absurd, more ridiculous, and the more you live the
way you think. Okay, they've got it. It's great when
these people are smarter than the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
In AJAX liquor store in the morning to buy cigarettes. Okay,
you know what, fine, I will accept that because I'm
less concerned about them lying about getting boozed up first
thing in the morning than I am about the dead
body on the floor. Let's try and focus on the
(03:27):
dead body. Joining us right now, investigative reporter from Leader News.
You can find them at my leaderpaper dot com. Tony
Krauss joining us from Arnold, Missouri. Tony, thank you for
being with us. Tell me about the location of Ajax
Liquor Store.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
AJX Liquor Store I actually no longer exists. It is
right off one of the main road in Arl, Missouri
called Jeffcoe Boulevards, the straight down the middle of the city.
It had been a liquor store that mister will take
it own and as whereas body was found in the
morning in nineteen ninety three, and it had also after
(04:12):
it been a liquor store, it became a auto shop.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Joining you right now, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger from the
Arnold Police Department. I guess it hurts any chance of
getting forensic evidence when the crime scene location not only
changes hands, but changes the nature of the business, going
from then a liquor store to multiple businesses including auto
(04:42):
body shop, and now I believe it's a wellness center.
I mean that floor has been replaced, maybe walls have
been moved, repainted. There's no there's not a sintilla of
forensic evists left behind.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
You're absolutely right. The building has one chain. The only
thing that's the same, The only thing as the shell.
The insight is completely redone. Nothing looks the same.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So this liquor store is open and operating the morning.
It was a Friday morning, I believe, on April twenty three,
when the murder goes down. What more do you know
about the scene, detective.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
It was a graphic scene. There was scenes of a struggle,
a violent struggle. Officer. Responding officers knew right away that
a struggle ensued and there was a fight for Steve
fought for his life. They could tell that right away.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
The victim, forty year old Stephen Wiltig, fought for his
life Now, how did they know that, detective corporal.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Because there were scattered, like any convenience store, chips and merchandise,
and it wasn't just secluded to one area like he
was found behind the counter of the resident of the business.
He was in front of the counter behind There was
scattered merchandise throughout the store.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, scattered merchandise throughout the store. You could tell a
battle ensued. I assume that there were no video cams
or anything of that nature.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Correct, there was one back then. They were very large
and it was outside the building, but it was not
functioning at that time.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know. That reminds me. I just had to corporal
the Chandra Levy case. When Chandra Levy left her apartment
in Washington, we couldn't tell what was she wearing, was
she with anybody? Her body was found much later, well
what was left of it. She was skeletonized and the
(06:47):
Rock Creek Park there in DC, after all sorts of
high powered politicians had been questioned under suspicion, we never
knew did she leave to go jogging with she abducted
because they had surveillance cameras within her high rise apartment
in DC. But every seventy two hours, they would tape
(07:10):
over themselves. So by the time cops went there after,
you know, searching for her. By the time cops went
to get in the video, it had been taped over forever, irretrievable,
no way to get it back. So you're telling me
that there was a video cam, surveillance video, but it
(07:31):
wasn't working.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Yes, that's what I'm telling you. And it's unfortunate because
I could have sold the case in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh gosh, when I'm thinking about the Woodacuda should us
in this case? Anyway, back to the murder, we know
that Stephen Weltigg, forty years old, was there bright and
early that Friday morning. He was the owner, he ran
the liquor store, convenience store, and that he put up
(07:58):
a battle. He fought for life, as the detective corporal
is telling us, but somebody was hell bent on murdering him.
When you said, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger, that it was graphic,
what do you mean by that? The same was graphic?
Speaker 6 (08:15):
A lot of blood, A lot of blood. When somebody
is shot in the head, the heart is still pumping,
blood is still coming out of the body. So there
was a great deal of blood. There's blood spatter. We
have evidence all over the place, and we for years
we kept the flooring to that business. And so you
(08:39):
could just tell when I picked up the cage twenty
seven years how much blood was involved in this case.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You kept the flooring. That is incredible police work. Tell
me about that.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
The officers, the detectives that investigated at the time. There
was obviously modern police work has taken over with technology,
but back then I think they did a decent job
of processing that crime scene. They see stuff that was
pertinent to the investigation, and at that time you don't
(09:11):
know what is and what isn't, and they see stuff
that wasn't. That floor was very important. It helped me
years later kind of reconstruct that scene.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm trying to imagine what you're saying, because we see
modern day reconstructions and the three D recreations and all that,
but you actually have the floor. You had the flooring
from the scene. Did you say it was carpet?
Speaker 6 (09:37):
It was carpet. And I worked this case with Detective
after Brett Ackerman at the time, and he and I
we looked at this carpet for a long time and
try to put the puzzle back together. Twenty seven years later.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Time stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Detective Corporal Joshua one of you're joining us, Can I tell
you about a case I tried? Okay, So, there was
a very high powered law firm in Atlanta and my boss,
Lewis Slayton, had been the elected District Attorney, the longest
(10:32):
of any DA in the country. I believe it was
thirty seven years. And I remember him calling me on
the overhead, Nancy, come to my office. I can hear
it right now because I'm chill and I specifically, i'd
been offering a different office, a really nice one, but
I took a little beauty one on a corner with
(10:54):
no view at all. I looked on top of another
building because it was by the stairs. Detective Corporal Why
so I could run down to the elected DA's office
whenever he called me and be there in about two minutes,
even in heels. So I ran down there and he
told me he had a case he wanted me to
(11:15):
look at because the daughter of his friend they had
known each other thirty years, who was now partner in
this big firm, was killed and it had been chalked
up as suicide, but the father and mother didn't believe it.
So I grabbed the file, race out to the scene,
(11:37):
and we take the bed sheets. She reportedly ostensibly shot
herself in the head while completely nude. Okay, right there,
alarm bells were going off because that statistically never happens
with a female lying in bed, lying down with her
head on the pillow, and she shot herself. Now, something
(12:01):
about that just seems wrong, right, Do you agree with
me so far, detective? But it wasn't until I knew
it was wrong, but I didn't know why it was wrong.
We get the sheets to the crime lab and guess
what her pillow? Janelle? That was her first name, Janelle, Beautiful,
(12:26):
I might add, with a precious little boy. Janelle was
lying on a pillow. And guess what was under the pillow, detective.
Blood spatter. Not a drop of blood, not a blood spear.
Blood spatter, which means the scene was staged. If she
(12:52):
had truly been lying on that pillow, butt naked, which
you know rarely happens with females, and shot herself the head,
why would there be blood spatter all underneath her pillow?
It wouldn't be the blood didn't even soak all the
way through the pillow. Impossible, you see what I'm saying. Yes,
(13:13):
So my point is, you guys kept the flooring because
you never know. As the weeks turned two months turned years,
and you keep looking at it and looking at it
and looking at it, what might dawn on you. I
got to hand it to you and the Arnold PD
(13:36):
for saving so much of the evidence. Okay, So tell
me about the investigation into this case. Detective Corporal Josh Weininger.
Why did it go cold?
Speaker 6 (13:49):
I believe it went cold from what I read through
many many police reports because of leads that had nothing
to do with the case. So the Major Case investigated it.
And one of the one of the patrons to the
convenience store that morning was and I want to say,
(14:12):
witness protection from a different state, and they didn't want
to get involved. So Major Case kind of said, this
is weird. This guy is possibly involved in criminal activity.
We're going to look into him as being.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
A potential suspect in the sheeting.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Correct, And that's where that case went.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Huh okay, hold on, hold on, let me follow up
with everybody with me an all star panel. It makes
sense of what we know right now. Did loose lips
sink a ship? You know? Tony Krauss is with us
from Leader News, Detective Corporal josh Win and Jerk joining
(14:49):
us from the ARNOLPD in Missouri, but also with me
high profile lawyer Darryl Cohen out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,
doctor jury Elk Crossing is with us where now it
psych pologists now faculty at Saint Leo University, and doctor
Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner. That's not easy to get.
(15:10):
You didn't just go to med school. You didn't just
become a medical doctor. You focus on pathology and then
you work your way up to become the chief medical Examiner.
Also lecturer University Texas Austin and at TCU Texas Christian
(15:31):
University Medical School, doctor Kendall Crowns. Why is it? I mean,
I'm just thinking back on all the murder cases I
investigated and prosecuted, the profuse amount of blood that occurs
when someone is shot in the head and we see it. Say,
I went to a wrestling match for my twins high school.
(15:52):
They're not wrestlers, but their friends were wrestling and we
were watching you know, if you get hit in the
nose or the mouth, anywhere around your head, you bleed
like a stut pig. You bleed like crazy. Why is that.
We're on other parts of your body, you don't bleed
(16:12):
as profusely.
Speaker 8 (16:13):
So the scalp, the face all have a large amount
of blood vesse wills feeding the tissues of that area.
Speaker 9 (16:25):
And then once you get past the skin, which is
very vascular, then you also have the brain, which has
a lot of blood supply getting to it because the
brain needs constant oxygen, constant nourishment to function. So all
these areas on your head have a lot of blood
supply when compared to the rest of your body. And
(16:47):
that's why you see so much hemorrhage associated with them,
because the brain is so important for your function, it
needs a large amount of blood.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Vest Jerald Cohen joining me, as you know, former prosecutor
now Defensiveney Darryl. I understand completely what Wandinger is telling
me because they're investigating this murderer. Then they find out
a witness and for those of you that can't see me,
I'm using air quoties is in the Witness Protection Act
(17:16):
somewhere else yes, of course they went down that. Let
me just call it a pig path. You know what
a pig path is, right, Darryl Cohen. You're a city boy,
but do you know what a pig path is.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I'm a city boy, but I know in.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
A straight line, a pig runs all crazy. And let
me just tell this story again. My dad, who would
work really long hours with the then Southern Central Railroad
now Norfolk Southern, my mother's brother convinced him they should
start a pig farm. So they got some pigs. And
(17:51):
basically what that meant is every day when he would
come home from work, he would have to chase the
pigs to get them back the fence. That's what a
pig path is. It's crazy, doesn't make sense, goes in
all crazy directions. So you find out the witness is
(18:11):
in witness protection. Of course, the cops investigated him as
a potential suspect.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
I couldn't help but laugh because witness protection, who is he?
Different name, different person, not different physical statistics or different
fingerprints or different DNA. But what it does is it
takes an already complicated case and multiplies the complications because
(18:39):
if he or she is in witness protection. Then fans
don't want him to be looked at, don't want him
to be spoken to, don't want him to even exist
because he might be murdered.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You know, you can't get anything out of the Feds.
Detective Corporal Josh Wantinger ever tried to work with the Feds?
Have you ever tried to get them to cooperate?
Speaker 6 (19:04):
I have all the time I currently work cases with
the FADS.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh oh, sorry, But all my experience of working with
fests and I was a FED for three years law
clerk to a federal judge, and then with the Federal
Trade Commission, and I trust. But for the bulk of
my career in the courtroom, I was a felony prosecutor.
And I remember one triple homicide and I had no idea.
(19:31):
I was working so hard to crack that case. The
FEDS had a whole file on one of the defendants
because he was involved in a huge drug trafficking trade,
coming straight up from Miami, stopping in Atlanta, and then
moving to New York. Did I get one piece of
paper from them? No? Nothing. I had a triple homicide,
(19:53):
but they thought their drug investigation was more important than
three dead teen boys.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
I believe it. It's very tight lipped in the police report,
and they're reading the police report over. It's uncertain on
who this individual is and why he was in our
town where he came from. I just know he was
a person of interest at that time, and it kind
of went cold pretty quick once we figured out that
(20:21):
that we should go some other direction.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Some other direction as indicated by the Feds. So you're
kind of like between the rock and a hard spot.
You think you know he did it, but the FEDS
are another law agency. Law enforcement agency, take him away
and encourage you to shut your pie hole. Okay, there
you go. So I'm sure there were to take this
on the case that always thought that guy did it,
(20:48):
and we can't do anything about it until bam, there's
a break in the case. Listen to rachel Winia Crime online.
Speaker 10 (20:58):
The murder of Steve Wilte was unsolved, but not forgotten.
The case has been assigned to different investigators over the years,
and new leads would be generated and investigated evidence collected.
Finally a breaking the case in twenty fifteen when reliable
tips led detectives to Laurel Harp, Harp's former wife, contacted
Arnold police in twenty fifteen and told them Laurel Harp
(21:19):
shot weltg.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
What isn't it great? Bitter angry ex wives call the
police and try to rap their ex out for a murderer.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Back to you, Daryl Cohen. I've spoken to many civil
attorneys who say they'd rather try a drug lord or
a murder as appases to a divorce case, because they're
pretty sure the other party, the wife or the husband
on the other side, is going to take a shot
at them when they walk through their living room in
front of the picture window. I mean, there's a lot
(22:11):
of animosity and hatred going on in many divorces.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Look Nancy first of all. Yogi Barrow said it best.
It ain't over till it's over. Divorce cases never seem
to be over, especially when their kids involved, or when
one spouse or the other is exercising outside of the
marriage and emotions run so high. And when emotions run high,
(22:39):
people do things that are just playing stupid. Pull out
a gun, pull out a knife, make phone calls that
they really didn't make. But oh my gosh, I forgot
that you could track my phone so divorces are horrible.
That's why you see from time to time a lawyer
who does family law, which I think is a misnomer
things to be called family wars when you see a
(23:02):
lawyer is murdered because his client or his client spouse
decides that this lawyer is his or her enemy, and
let's get rid of the enemy. So divorce cases are
terrible to try, horrible, and I give if I wore
a hat, I take my hat off to every divorce
lawyer who does it right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Man, you are not kidding it. It doesn't make how, It
doesn't matter how educated or rich you are. It all
boils down to warfare, hand to hand, mutual combat in
the courtroom in a nasty divorce. So you know, to
you doctor Jory L. Crossey joining US renowned psychologist, former
law enforcement faculty at Saint Leo University, doctor jury. There
(23:46):
is a husband wife privilege where the wife cannot or
husband cannot testify against the partner about communications during the marriage.
But that doesn't mean she can't make a phone call
and rat out her eggs may not come in on
the stand, but still it leads costs in a particular direction.
Speaker 11 (24:06):
Yeah, as when I was in private practice, I used
to do the evaluations for court during divorces on parents
parental evaluations. So you know, I can really feel for
the lawyers on it because I've actually had lawyers threatened,
you know, and how to make the judge awearing them
aware of it. But one thing, psychologically, when relationships break up,
(24:30):
I have yet to see an individual that does not
experience what we call a manic episode. You know, that's
this excitement.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
This is fueled by past injustices, you know, possibly affairs, anything,
but it really accelerates their sense of retaliation. And so
I could see her making a phone call. You know,
this is where a lot of of the luggage and
(25:02):
clause skeletons in clausets get exposed.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You know. I like the way you said that so euphemistically.
That's certainly putting perfume on the pig. It exacerbates retaliation.
In other words, when you've been done wrong, you get mean.
And this woman had waited what detective Corporal Josh wanting
her twenty years before she made that call.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
Yeah, twenty fifteen was an important year. We actually had
the suspect Laurel Harp's a good friend, which was also
a mutual friend with Stephen Walton and Laurel Harp's ex
wife come forward. So twenty fifteen was a very important
year during this investigation.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So after all these years, the bitter ex comes forward,
and thank heaven, she does.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
I really do. I had a conversation with her myself
in twenty twenty. But she I believe it's she's still
struggling with some demons during from their relationship. From what
I picked up during the conversation, I think there was
some domestic issues that I could never iron out, So
that might be a reason she was willing to come forward.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, thank heaven she did detect a corporal because you
know what, I don't want to tell you about it.
I want you to hear it. Take a listen to
the defendant in this case as he is called in
for questioning after his bitter ex angry ex calls cops
to tip him off about a murder. Well, the first
(26:38):
thing he says is I didn't kill Steve Man. But
then he keeps talking. Now, remember, right now, detectors are
sitting right in front of him. Listen, you guys are.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
In it is a physical altercation because you guys are tussling.
Speaker 12 (26:53):
Hey, if you want to call it, he's going to talk.
He's too easy.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
So how did it happen?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
How did it happen that he got a bullet hole
in his head?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Hi, James, and you're the only other person there.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
How is this going to look?
Speaker 11 (27:06):
If you don't tell us the truth, we have to
speculate and tell a prosecutor.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
We have to guess what happened.
Speaker 12 (27:11):
I'm telling you to shoose I didn't shoose him.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I did not choose you. And he is very, very convincing.
I've looked at the video as he's talking. He seems convincing.
But I guess what does he want us to believe
that he gets into a quote tussle. That's what defendants
always say when they have a full on fight. It
(27:35):
was a tussle. We started tussling. Uh, Darryl Cohen, have
you heard that word over and over and over? A tussle?
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Yeah, And it's just it's a catch all word for
a fight. It's not a tussle. It tussles you. You
and I are you, and somebody else would be and
somebody else that's wrestling a little bit. This is not
what that was.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I'm not going to wrestle with you, Darryl Cohen. Okay,
but that said, let's guys ww tussle. Take a listen
to more of Laurel Heart. Now, remember there's no evidence
against him. All we have is his ex wife calls
in and says he's a killer. And as all of
you legal eagles know, even a confession by the defendant
(28:21):
alone is not enough under our constitution to bring a
murder case. There has to be something more than just
the wife calling in. Listen, Steve Walte, in your words,
is a punk, he's weak.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
He grabs the gun.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Yeah, he's a pop.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
You're like, what are you going to do with that?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
That's when no, I wouldn't sit down.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
I mean in your head, no, not a cloud. But
you're thinking, this guy just pulled a gun on me.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Yeah, I would do an after right way or cut out?
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, right a way.
Speaker 11 (28:54):
So we already know you.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
Went after him right away. That's we just don't know
if you charge you if you were tussling.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Meaning pushing each other.
Speaker 12 (29:04):
You said, it's not really that.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Physical, but you know with him as he's.
Speaker 7 (29:09):
We've described what it was like, like was it?
Speaker 6 (29:13):
What was he trying to punch you. Was he trying
to to me?
Speaker 13 (29:17):
Were you good?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Do you notice right in the middle of that, Tony
Krauss joining us from Leader News. He says, Hey, can
you hand me my jeeves? This guy is not worried
at all because all these years have passed and he
knows the cops have nothing on him.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Yeah, he seems pretty confident in his story that no,
he did not shoot him. And then how he's describing
to the let's call it at this point a confrontation,
I guess in his eyes, says he doesn't, says it
was a tussle, and he believes they have nothing they
can get him. At this point, it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
And there really is nothing other than the ex wife's
phone call. He says, the two got no argument and
he left. He has no idea how the Vietnam got
shot in the head and ends up dead on the
floor of a liquor store early on a Friday morning. Okay,
keep listening.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
He came out to me, were you gun?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Describe that?
Speaker 5 (30:19):
So the only thing I can remember that you're trying
to tell is I remember it was.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
A liquor store. I thought it was a bar.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
There's a counter.
Speaker 12 (30:31):
He come out from a round the counter, came at me,
had a gun in his hand.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
As soon as he got close.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Enough, I hit him.
Speaker 12 (30:38):
I grabbed it arm and but.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
I didn't shoot him.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
That's the suit.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I did not shoot him. And he goes on. Take
a listen to our cut one seven. Now. Remember there
he's talking to detectives, but the detectives leave the interrogation
room and leave him alone.
Speaker 12 (31:00):
Loan de Texas picked to ask you some questions. I guess, yeah,
I mean Arnold Police station, and I have no idea
what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest, but I
probably will before I leave here.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Let's hear that one more time.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
De Texas picked the want to ask you some questions.
I guess, yeah, I mean Arnold Police station, and I
have no idea what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest,
but I probably will be for I leave here.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Oh yeah. By the time if he is talking to me,
I'm going to be under arrest for murder. That's right.
He thinks nobody is listening. He picks up the cell
phone and calls some money and goes Before I can
leave here, I'm going to be under arrest. It's not
the first time someone has made an accidental or inadverted confession.
(31:45):
This guy knows he's going to be under arrest for murder.
Does the name Robert Durst ring a bell? Take a
listen to our cup one.
Speaker 13 (31:56):
Robert Durst was famous for being from one of the
wealthiest families in New York, but most of his adult
life dealt with a very dark side of life. Long
suspected of being involved in the disappearance of his wife,
Kathy McCormick in nineteen eighty two, he was the subject
of investigations that never could figure out what happened to Kathy.
Then the two thousand murder of someone considered his best friend,
(32:18):
Susan Berman, and the death of his neighbor Morris Black.
In all the investigations, the only one that saw a
courtroom was the Morris Black murder. Even though Durst chopped
up Morris Black, something one would associate with a murder,
not a defensive killing. Durst was acquitted of the murder.
It wasn't until Robert Durst agreed to do a special
on HBO that he was finally caught with his pants down,
(32:40):
so to speak, in the bathroom with a live microphone.
Robert Durst confessed and all played out in a program
he didn't have to do.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So he's in the bathroom, using the bathroom, literally with
his pants down and muttering to himself in the middle
of an HBO special. Still mightd up take a listen
to HBO's the jinx. Well maybe this.
Speaker 11 (33:01):
Is the all right, there it is?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
You're yeah, he's acting like he has no idea what's
going on around? And what is this door with a
picture of a man on it? Oh, it's the bathroom,
he goes in. Listen, I'm wrong this.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Estion.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Okay. What he said right there he's muttering to himself
is quote what a disaster. He's talking about the HBO
special that he has voluntarily chose to take part in.
And here's the money shot.
Speaker 14 (33:51):
Listen him a question, kill the followers.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Idiot, he says, all alone in the bathroom, I'm having
difficulty with the question. I killed them all, of course,
And who do we mean by of course? His wife
Morris Black and his best friend Kathy Berman, who knew
(34:38):
he murdered his wife. There are so many other examples.
Robert Durst is just one of them who makes a
quote accidental confession to you, Daryl Cohen, nothing under our
constitution protects you from accidental or unknowing confessions being brought
(35:02):
in at court.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
What you're saying is, nancy, nothing protects you from your own, pure,
unadulterated stupidity. You're right, he is not being questioned. He's
giving voluntary answers to the ethernet or the Internet, or
the video or the audio. No, you can't be protected
from yourself unless you're smart enough to do what a
(35:27):
certain judge was told years ago when I prosecuted computed
in front of him. Judge Jack Langford had a habit
of just for rating lawyers, and his secretary, Gloria, who
was terrific, had the large letters large pond kyd BMS
on one of his rolling file cabinets, and every time
(35:48):
she heard him but reat a lawyer, she would buzz him.
He would be forced to turn around, look at the
file cabinet insident for keep your damn big mouth shut. Well,
that's what should be these fools who commit these crimes.
But they're smarter than you are, smarter than I am,
and nobody's listening or watching me. But at some point,
(36:10):
if you trip and tall your toast.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
You know what, I remember Judge Schreyer very well. I
tried cases in front of him, and we always degenerated
into a huge argument. And after one of those arguments
he had to go to the hospital with chest pains. Okay,
that's a whole nother story. But what about another Itgit
(36:35):
killer OJ Simpson talk about inadvertent confessions. Take a listen
to Dave mack in one thirty three.
Speaker 13 (36:44):
Chris Darden, the OJ Simpson prosecutor, during an appearance on
the TV show of the View, claims OJ Simpson confess
to the crime. Darden is referencing a story that's been
told by Sergeant Jeff Stewart, who was a guard at
the La County Jail. He claims he overheard a convers
between O. J. Simpson and former NFL Great Term Minister
Rosie Greer. Rosie Greer was visiting OJ Simpson as a minister,
(37:07):
and Sergeant Stewart claims he heard Simpson yell, I didn't
mean to do it. I'm sorry. He then claims Rosie
Greer told OJA, OJ, You've got to come clean. You've
got to tell somebody. Sergeant Stewart did in fact testify
during the O. J. Simpson trial, but he was only
allowed to say that he heard a statement. He couldn't say
(37:27):
what the statement was. Simpson's defense argued statements between inmates
and clergy is protected, and Judge lance Ito ruled the
full accounting could not be admitted as evidence.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Nancy, let me interrupt for a second. I think it's
important that you mentioned that Rosie Greer was a former
teammate of OJ Simpsons on the Los Angeles Rams. He
wasn't just a minister that came after his playing career
was over.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Normally, communications between clergy and a defendant are kept secret. However,
if you violate or pierce the privilege by screaming it
out saw all the sheriffs hear it, then you typically
lose the privilege. It's like you're talking to your lawyer
(38:15):
at a dinner party and everybody can overhear you, so
you have waived the privilege by speaking in front of
other people. Of course, lance Ito chose his own unique
interpretation of the law and did not let Simpson's confession in.
But what about this idiot William Korzon. Take a listen
to what he asked the police talk about an inadvertent
(38:38):
confession Dave Mack in one thirty.
Speaker 13 (38:41):
Nine, William Courzon got away with murder for four decades.
He and his wife, Gloria, married in nineteen sixty eight
moved to Pennsylvania, where they were regularly visited by police
for their constant fighting. From nineteen sixty eight until Gloria
disappeared in nineteen eighty one, law enforcement authorities investigated in
documented numerous violent assaults where William Corson assaulted and threatened
to killed Gloria Coorson, investigator said, the couple got into
(39:03):
a violent argument in which Gloria pointed her husband's gun
at him and tried to shoot him, but Korson wrestled
the gun from his wife's hands and shot her in
the head, killing her. He then loaded her on his
boat and dumped her body in the Delaware River. After
the case went cold and was put on a shelf,
Warrington police spent two years reinvestigating before they finally had
enough evidence to take it to a grand jury. When
(39:23):
police showed up to arrest him, Coorzon said the one
thing that sealed his fate. He asked investigators, did you
find the body?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Did you find the body. No, how did he know
there was a body? How did he know? She didn't
just leave him? He knew there was a dead body.
And that was his inadvertent confession. I've got so many
in inverted accidental confessions, but you've got to hear this
one that results from a butt dial. I make the
(39:52):
twins say pocket dial, but it's a butt dial. Take
a listen to the story of Aaron Burial, the true
story In one.
Speaker 13 (40:00):
World of crime, it's the victim that usually calls nine
one one. Roswell, New Mexico. Authorities answered the nine one
one call, expecting someone to need help, but this time
it's a butt dial, an unintentional dialing of nine one one.
Nine to one dispatch is about to disconnect the call
when they hear thirty seven year old Aaron Burrell talking
about a home he just burglarized with his partner in crime,
(40:21):
Yvonne Thiberg. Nine one one is recording as the couple
does a quick inventory of what they just stole, mainly
a TV from a house in Roswell. Dispatchers listened to
the unintended confession for nearly forty five minutes as the
duo continued to discuss their alleged heist. Police went to
the home address that was mentioned in the call and
it had been robbed. Aaron Burrell and Yvonne Thiberg were
(40:42):
both arrested and charged with multiple burglary related offenses. And
the confession is all on the nine to one one.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Tape confession by butt dial to ted to Corporal Josh
Weininger is with us from the Arnold PD. So this guy,
when he sees the detect us, we're back to our
case in chief the in this case, Laurel Harp. As
soon as the detectives leaves the room, he picks up
the phone and basically makes a tell. Colin says, in essence, man,
(41:10):
I'm going to jail. He knew the gig was up.
Speaker 6 (41:14):
Yes, he knew. He made several of those incriminating statements
out loud. He was cussing at himself at times, and
it was those portions of the interview which led myself
in Detective Ackerman solved this case.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
What do you mean he was cursing at himself.
Speaker 6 (41:32):
Just like when you're mad at yourself, like verbally out loud,
just upset with himself that he was in this situation
because he thought he was going to jail.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
To you, Tony Krauss. Was he charged with first degree murder?
Speaker 11 (41:48):
He was?
Speaker 4 (41:49):
It was.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
It took a couple, a couple more interviews were with him,
and then the Prosky Attorney's Office in Jersy did issue
charged it against him for a first murder and an
armed criminal action on September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, and
he was arrested the next day.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Twenty plus years pass and through a in an inadvertent
confession a slip of a tongue, he is convicted on
homicide charges. Justice delayed, but not denied. Goodbye friend,
Crime stories with Nancy Greece.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Loose lips sink ships. Truer words were never spoken. Now.
That phraseology came from Great Britain around the time of
the World War, when the Brits were convinced rightly so
that spies were everywhere, so if you knew anything about
(00:40):
the battle raging across the world, keep your pie hole shut. Well,
it didn't always work, and today is a prime example
of a murder suspect busted in a police station after
he incriminates himself when detectives leave the room. Is nobody
(01:08):
watching TV? Don't they know? For somebody on the other
side of that mirror watching you, or that there are
cameras watching you that pick up audio as well. What
cave is this guy living in? He's got to be
living under a rock in a cave on the other
(01:28):
side of the world with definitely no cable TV where
he would have seen JINXD for Pete's sake, where millionaire
Robert Durst said, of course I did it under his
breath and it was caught on a microphone. Anyway, he
did it, and he went years without being caught until
(01:50):
his inadverent loose lips suck his ship, I mean, is
he grace? This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with
us here at Crime Stories and on serious Excit. One eleven.
How did the whole things start? Well, of course, at
a liquor store. Take a listen.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
On the morning of April twenty third, nineteen ninety three,
a couple stops by Ajax liquor store to pick up
a pack of cigarettes and finds the owner of the store,
Steve Weltig, on the floor dead. Investigators notice it appears
that a struggle took place prior to wel Tag being
shot in the head. Major Key Squad detectives work the
case and developed several leads, as well as a suspect sketch,
(02:27):
but no real evidence leading to a killer is ever
found and the case goes cold.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Okay, straight out to high profile lawyer, former prosecutor in
inter city Atlanta defense attorney Darryl Cohen. Darryl Cohen, thank
you for being with us. Why does everybody say they
were in the liquor store just to buy cigarettes.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, because no one goes to a liquor store to
buy liquor, because that there are all these boot layers. Nancy,
when you start making up lives that become more and
more absurd, more ridiculous, and the more you live the
way you think. Okay, they've got it. It's great when
these people are smarter than the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
In AJAX liquor store in the morning to buy cigarettes. Okay,
you know what, fine, I will accept that because I'm
less concerned about them lying about getting boozed up first
thing in the morning than I am about the dead
body on the floor. Let's try and focus on the
(03:27):
dead body. Joining us right now, investigative reporter from Leader News.
You can find them at my leaderpaper dot com. Tony
Krauss joining us from Arnold, Missouri. Tony, thank you for
being with us. Tell me about the location of Ajax
Liquor Store.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
AJX Liquor Store I actually no longer exists. It is
right off one of the main road in Arl, Missouri
called Jeffcoe Boulevards, the straight down the middle of the city.
It had been a liquor store that mister will take
it own and as whereas body was found in the
morning in nineteen ninety three, and it had also after
(04:12):
it been a liquor store, it became a auto shop.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Joining you right now, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger from the
Arnold Police Department. I guess it hurts any chance of
getting forensic evidence when the crime scene location not only
changes hands, but changes the nature of the business, going
from then a liquor store to multiple businesses including auto
(04:42):
body shop, and now I believe it's a wellness center.
I mean that floor has been replaced, maybe walls have
been moved, repainted. There's no there's not a sintilla of
forensic evists left behind.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
You're absolutely right. The building has one chain. The only
thing that's the same, The only thing as the shell.
The insight is completely redone. Nothing looks the same.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So this liquor store is open and operating the morning.
It was a Friday morning, I believe, on April twenty three,
when the murder goes down. What more do you know
about the scene, detective.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
It was a graphic scene. There was scenes of a struggle,
a violent struggle. Officer. Responding officers knew right away that
a struggle ensued and there was a fight for Steve
fought for his life. They could tell that right away.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
The victim, forty year old Stephen Wiltig, fought for his
life Now, how did they know that, detective corporal.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Because there were scattered, like any convenience store, chips and merchandise,
and it wasn't just secluded to one area like he
was found behind the counter of the resident of the business.
He was in front of the counter behind There was
scattered merchandise throughout the store.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, scattered merchandise throughout the store. You could tell a
battle ensued. I assume that there were no video cams
or anything of that nature.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
Correct, there was one back then. They were very large
and it was outside the building, but it was not
functioning at that time.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know. That reminds me. I just had to corporal
the Chandra Levy case. When Chandra Levy left her apartment
in Washington, we couldn't tell what was she wearing, was
she with anybody? Her body was found much later, well
what was left of it. She was skeletonized and the
(06:47):
Rock Creek Park there in DC, after all sorts of
high powered politicians had been questioned under suspicion, we never
knew did she leave to go jogging with she abducted
because they had surveillance cameras within her high rise apartment
in DC. But every seventy two hours, they would tape
(07:10):
over themselves. So by the time cops went there after,
you know, searching for her. By the time cops went
to get in the video, it had been taped over forever, irretrievable,
no way to get it back. So you're telling me
that there was a video cam, surveillance video, but it
(07:31):
wasn't working.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Yes, that's what I'm telling you. And it's unfortunate because
I could have sold the case in nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Oh gosh, when I'm thinking about the Woodacuda should us
in this case? Anyway, back to the murder, we know
that Stephen Weltigg, forty years old, was there bright and
early that Friday morning. He was the owner, he ran
the liquor store, convenience store, and that he put up
(07:58):
a battle. He fought for life, as the detective corporal
is telling us, but somebody was hell bent on murdering him.
When you said, Detective Corporal Josh Weininger, that it was graphic,
what do you mean by that? The same was graphic?
Speaker 6 (08:15):
A lot of blood, A lot of blood. When somebody
is shot in the head, the heart is still pumping,
blood is still coming out of the body. So there
was a great deal of blood. There's blood spatter. We
have evidence all over the place, and we for years
we kept the flooring to that business. And so you
(08:39):
could just tell when I picked up the cage twenty
seven years how much blood was involved in this case.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
You kept the flooring. That is incredible police work. Tell
me about that.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
The officers, the detectives that investigated at the time. There
was obviously modern police work has taken over with technology,
but back then I think they did a decent job
of processing that crime scene. They see stuff that was
pertinent to the investigation, and at that time you don't
(09:11):
know what is and what isn't, and they see stuff
that wasn't. That floor was very important. It helped me
years later kind of reconstruct that scene.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm trying to imagine what you're saying, because we see
modern day reconstructions and the three D recreations and all that,
but you actually have the floor. You had the flooring
from the scene. Did you say it was carpet?
Speaker 6 (09:37):
It was carpet. And I worked this case with Detective
after Brett Ackerman at the time, and he and I
we looked at this carpet for a long time and
try to put the puzzle back together. Twenty seven years later.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Time stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Detective Corporal Joshua one of you're joining us, Can I tell
you about a case I tried? Okay, So, there was
a very high powered law firm in Atlanta and my boss,
Lewis Slayton, had been the elected District Attorney, the longest
(10:32):
of any DA in the country. I believe it was
thirty seven years. And I remember him calling me on
the overhead, Nancy, come to my office. I can hear
it right now because I'm chill and I specifically, i'd
been offering a different office, a really nice one, but
I took a little beauty one on a corner with
(10:54):
no view at all. I looked on top of another
building because it was by the stairs. Detective Corporal Why
so I could run down to the elected DA's office
whenever he called me and be there in about two minutes,
even in heels. So I ran down there and he
told me he had a case he wanted me to
(11:15):
look at because the daughter of his friend they had
known each other thirty years, who was now partner in
this big firm, was killed and it had been chalked
up as suicide, but the father and mother didn't believe it.
So I grabbed the file, race out to the scene,
(11:37):
and we take the bed sheets. She reportedly ostensibly shot
herself in the head while completely nude. Okay, right there,
alarm bells were going off because that statistically never happens
with a female lying in bed, lying down with her
head on the pillow, and she shot herself. Now, something
(12:01):
about that just seems wrong, right, Do you agree with
me so far, detective? But it wasn't until I knew
it was wrong, but I didn't know why it was wrong.
We get the sheets to the crime lab and guess
what her pillow? Janelle? That was her first name, Janelle, Beautiful,
(12:26):
I might add, with a precious little boy. Janelle was
lying on a pillow. And guess what was under the pillow, detective.
Blood spatter. Not a drop of blood, not a blood spear.
Blood spatter, which means the scene was staged. If she
(12:52):
had truly been lying on that pillow, butt naked, which
you know rarely happens with females, and shot herself the head,
why would there be blood spatter all underneath her pillow?
It wouldn't be the blood didn't even soak all the
way through the pillow. Impossible, you see what I'm saying. Yes,
(13:13):
So my point is, you guys kept the flooring because
you never know. As the weeks turned two months turned years,
and you keep looking at it and looking at it
and looking at it, what might dawn on you. I
got to hand it to you and the Arnold PD
(13:36):
for saving so much of the evidence. Okay, So tell
me about the investigation into this case. Detective Corporal Josh Weininger.
Why did it go cold?
Speaker 6 (13:49):
I believe it went cold from what I read through
many many police reports because of leads that had nothing
to do with the case. So the Major Case investigated it.
And one of the one of the patrons to the
convenience store that morning was and I want to say,
(14:12):
witness protection from a different state, and they didn't want
to get involved. So Major Case kind of said, this
is weird. This guy is possibly involved in criminal activity.
We're going to look into him as being.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
A potential suspect in the sheeting.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Correct, And that's where that case went.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Huh okay, hold on, hold on, let me follow up
with everybody with me an all star panel. It makes
sense of what we know right now. Did loose lips
sink a ship? You know? Tony Krauss is with us
from Leader News, Detective Corporal josh Win and Jerk joining
(14:49):
us from the ARNOLPD in Missouri, but also with me
high profile lawyer Darryl Cohen out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,
doctor jury Elk Crossing is with us where now it
psych pologists now faculty at Saint Leo University, and doctor
Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner. That's not easy to get.
(15:10):
You didn't just go to med school. You didn't just
become a medical doctor. You focus on pathology and then
you work your way up to become the chief medical Examiner.
Also lecturer University Texas Austin and at TCU Texas Christian
(15:31):
University Medical School, doctor Kendall Crowns. Why is it? I mean,
I'm just thinking back on all the murder cases I
investigated and prosecuted, the profuse amount of blood that occurs
when someone is shot in the head and we see it. Say,
I went to a wrestling match for my twins high school.
(15:52):
They're not wrestlers, but their friends were wrestling and we
were watching you know, if you get hit in the
nose or the mouth, anywhere around your head, you bleed
like a stut pig. You bleed like crazy. Why is that.
We're on other parts of your body, you don't bleed
(16:12):
as profusely.
Speaker 8 (16:13):
So the scalp, the face all have a large amount
of blood vesse wills feeding the tissues of that area.
Speaker 9 (16:25):
And then once you get past the skin, which is
very vascular, then you also have the brain, which has
a lot of blood supply getting to it because the
brain needs constant oxygen, constant nourishment to function. So all
these areas on your head have a lot of blood
supply when compared to the rest of your body. And
(16:47):
that's why you see so much hemorrhage associated with them,
because the brain is so important for your function, it
needs a large amount of blood.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Vest Jerald Cohen joining me, as you know, former prosecutor
now Defensiveney Darryl. I understand completely what Wandinger is telling
me because they're investigating this murderer. Then they find out
a witness and for those of you that can't see me,
I'm using air quoties is in the Witness Protection Act
(17:16):
somewhere else yes, of course they went down that. Let
me just call it a pig path. You know what
a pig path is, right, Darryl Cohen. You're a city boy,
but do you know what a pig path is.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I'm a city boy, but I know in.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
A straight line, a pig runs all crazy. And let
me just tell this story again. My dad, who would
work really long hours with the then Southern Central Railroad
now Norfolk Southern, my mother's brother convinced him they should
start a pig farm. So they got some pigs. And
(17:51):
basically what that meant is every day when he would
come home from work, he would have to chase the
pigs to get them back the fence. That's what a
pig path is. It's crazy, doesn't make sense, goes in
all crazy directions. So you find out the witness is
(18:11):
in witness protection. Of course, the cops investigated him as
a potential suspect.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
I couldn't help but laugh because witness protection, who is he?
Different name, different person, not different physical statistics or different
fingerprints or different DNA. But what it does is it
takes an already complicated case and multiplies the complications because
(18:39):
if he or she is in witness protection. Then fans
don't want him to be looked at, don't want him
to be spoken to, don't want him to even exist
because he might be murdered.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You know, you can't get anything out of the Feds.
Detective Corporal Josh Wantinger ever tried to work with the Feds?
Have you ever tried to get them to cooperate?
Speaker 6 (19:04):
I have all the time I currently work cases with
the FADS.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh oh, sorry, But all my experience of working with
fests and I was a FED for three years law
clerk to a federal judge, and then with the Federal
Trade Commission, and I trust. But for the bulk of
my career in the courtroom, I was a felony prosecutor.
And I remember one triple homicide and I had no idea.
(19:31):
I was working so hard to crack that case. The
FEDS had a whole file on one of the defendants
because he was involved in a huge drug trafficking trade,
coming straight up from Miami, stopping in Atlanta, and then
moving to New York. Did I get one piece of
paper from them? No? Nothing. I had a triple homicide,
(19:53):
but they thought their drug investigation was more important than
three dead teen boys.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
I believe it. It's very tight lipped in the police report,
and they're reading the police report over. It's uncertain on
who this individual is and why he was in our
town where he came from. I just know he was
a person of interest at that time, and it kind
of went cold pretty quick once we figured out that
(20:21):
that we should go some other direction.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Some other direction as indicated by the Feds. So you're
kind of like between the rock and a hard spot.
You think you know he did it, but the FEDS
are another law agency. Law enforcement agency, take him away
and encourage you to shut your pie hole. Okay, there
you go. So I'm sure there were to take this
on the case that always thought that guy did it,
(20:48):
and we can't do anything about it until bam, there's
a break in the case. Listen to rachel Winia Crime online.
Speaker 10 (20:58):
The murder of Steve Wilte was unsolved, but not forgotten.
The case has been assigned to different investigators over the years,
and new leads would be generated and investigated evidence collected.
Finally a breaking the case in twenty fifteen when reliable
tips led detectives to Laurel Harp, Harp's former wife, contacted
Arnold police in twenty fifteen and told them Laurel Harp
(21:19):
shot weltg.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
What isn't it great? Bitter angry ex wives call the
police and try to rap their ex out for a murderer.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Back to you, Daryl Cohen. I've spoken to many civil
attorneys who say they'd rather try a drug lord or
a murder as appases to a divorce case, because they're
pretty sure the other party, the wife or the husband
on the other side, is going to take a shot
at them when they walk through their living room in
front of the picture window. I mean, there's a lot
(22:11):
of animosity and hatred going on in many divorces.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Look Nancy first of all. Yogi Barrow said it best.
It ain't over till it's over. Divorce cases never seem
to be over, especially when their kids involved, or when
one spouse or the other is exercising outside of the
marriage and emotions run so high. And when emotions run high,
(22:39):
people do things that are just playing stupid. Pull out
a gun, pull out a knife, make phone calls that
they really didn't make. But oh my gosh, I forgot
that you could track my phone so divorces are horrible.
That's why you see from time to time a lawyer
who does family law, which I think is a misnomer
things to be called family wars when you see a
(23:02):
lawyer is murdered because his client or his client spouse
decides that this lawyer is his or her enemy, and
let's get rid of the enemy. So divorce cases are
terrible to try, horrible, and I give if I wore
a hat, I take my hat off to every divorce
lawyer who does it right.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Man, you are not kidding it. It doesn't make how, It
doesn't matter how educated or rich you are. It all
boils down to warfare, hand to hand, mutual combat in
the courtroom in a nasty divorce. So you know, to
you doctor Jory L. Crossey joining US renowned psychologist, former
law enforcement faculty at Saint Leo University, doctor jury. There
(23:46):
is a husband wife privilege where the wife cannot or
husband cannot testify against the partner about communications during the marriage.
But that doesn't mean she can't make a phone call
and rat out her eggs may not come in on
the stand, but still it leads costs in a particular direction.
Speaker 11 (24:06):
Yeah, as when I was in private practice, I used
to do the evaluations for court during divorces on parents
parental evaluations. So you know, I can really feel for
the lawyers on it because I've actually had lawyers threatened,
you know, and how to make the judge awearing them
aware of it. But one thing, psychologically, when relationships break up,
(24:30):
I have yet to see an individual that does not
experience what we call a manic episode. You know, that's
this excitement.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
This is fueled by past injustices, you know, possibly affairs, anything,
but it really accelerates their sense of retaliation. And so
I could see her making a phone call. You know,
this is where a lot of of the luggage and
(25:02):
clause skeletons in clausets get exposed.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
You know. I like the way you said that so euphemistically.
That's certainly putting perfume on the pig. It exacerbates retaliation.
In other words, when you've been done wrong, you get mean.
And this woman had waited what detective Corporal Josh wanting
her twenty years before she made that call.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
Yeah, twenty fifteen was an important year. We actually had
the suspect Laurel Harp's a good friend, which was also
a mutual friend with Stephen Walton and Laurel Harp's ex
wife come forward. So twenty fifteen was a very important
year during this investigation.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
So after all these years, the bitter ex comes forward,
and thank heaven, she does.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
I really do. I had a conversation with her myself
in twenty twenty. But she I believe it's she's still
struggling with some demons during from their relationship. From what
I picked up during the conversation, I think there was
some domestic issues that I could never iron out, So
that might be a reason she was willing to come forward.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, thank heaven she did detect a corporal because you
know what, I don't want to tell you about it.
I want you to hear it. Take a listen to
the defendant in this case as he is called in
for questioning after his bitter ex angry ex calls cops
to tip him off about a murder. Well, the first
(26:38):
thing he says is I didn't kill Steve Man. But
then he keeps talking. Now, remember, right now, detectors are
sitting right in front of him. Listen, you guys are.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
In it is a physical altercation because you guys are tussling.
Speaker 12 (26:53):
Hey, if you want to call it, he's going to talk.
He's too easy.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
So how did it happen?
Speaker 5 (26:57):
How did it happen that he got a bullet hole
in his head?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Hi, James, and you're the only other person there.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
In the world.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
How is this going to look?
Speaker 11 (27:06):
If you don't tell us the truth, we have to
speculate and tell a prosecutor.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
We have to guess what happened.
Speaker 12 (27:11):
I'm telling you to shoose I didn't shoose him.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I did not choose you. And he is very, very convincing.
I've looked at the video as he's talking. He seems convincing.
But I guess what does he want us to believe
that he gets into a quote tussle. That's what defendants
always say when they have a full on fight. It
(27:35):
was a tussle. We started tussling. Uh, Darryl Cohen, have
you heard that word over and over and over? A tussle?
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Yeah, And it's just it's a catch all word for
a fight. It's not a tussle. It tussles you. You
and I are you, and somebody else would be and
somebody else that's wrestling a little bit. This is not
what that was.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I'm not going to wrestle with you, Darryl Cohen. Okay,
but that said, let's guys ww tussle. Take a listen
to more of Laurel Heart. Now, remember there's no evidence
against him. All we have is his ex wife calls
in and says he's a killer. And as all of
you legal eagles know, even a confession by the defendant
(28:21):
alone is not enough under our constitution to bring a
murder case. There has to be something more than just
the wife calling in. Listen, Steve Walte, in your words,
is a punk, he's weak.
Speaker 7 (28:36):
He grabs the gun.
Speaker 6 (28:38):
Yeah, he's a pop.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
You're like, what are you going to do with that?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
That's when no, I wouldn't sit down.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
I mean in your head, no, not a cloud. But
you're thinking, this guy just pulled a gun on me.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Yeah, I would do an after right way or cut out?
Speaker 4 (28:53):
Yeah, right a way.
Speaker 11 (28:54):
So we already know you.
Speaker 6 (28:55):
Went after him right away. That's we just don't know
if you charge you if you were tussling.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Meaning pushing each other.
Speaker 12 (29:04):
You said, it's not really that.
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Physical, but you know with him as he's.
Speaker 7 (29:09):
We've described what it was like, like was it?
Speaker 6 (29:13):
What was he trying to punch you. Was he trying
to to me?
Speaker 13 (29:17):
Were you good?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Do you notice right in the middle of that, Tony
Krauss joining us from Leader News. He says, Hey, can
you hand me my jeeves? This guy is not worried
at all because all these years have passed and he
knows the cops have nothing on him.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Yeah, he seems pretty confident in his story that no,
he did not shoot him. And then how he's describing
to the let's call it at this point a confrontation,
I guess in his eyes, says he doesn't, says it
was a tussle, and he believes they have nothing they
can get him. At this point, it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
And there really is nothing other than the ex wife's
phone call. He says, the two got no argument and
he left. He has no idea how the Vietnam got
shot in the head and ends up dead on the
floor of a liquor store early on a Friday morning. Okay,
keep listening.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
He came out to me, were you gun?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Describe that?
Speaker 5 (30:19):
So the only thing I can remember that you're trying
to tell is I remember it was.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
A liquor store. I thought it was a bar.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
There's a counter.
Speaker 12 (30:31):
He come out from a round the counter, came at me,
had a gun in his hand.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
As soon as he got close.
Speaker 7 (30:37):
Enough, I hit him.
Speaker 12 (30:38):
I grabbed it arm and but.
Speaker 7 (30:41):
I didn't shoot him.
Speaker 6 (30:42):
That's the suit.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I did not shoot him. And he goes on. Take
a listen to our cut one seven. Now. Remember there
he's talking to detectives, but the detectives leave the interrogation
room and leave him alone.
Speaker 12 (31:00):
Loan de Texas picked to ask you some questions. I guess, yeah,
I mean Arnold Police station, and I have no idea
what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest, but I
probably will before I leave here.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Let's hear that one more time.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
De Texas picked the want to ask you some questions.
I guess, yeah, I mean Arnold Police station, and I
have no idea what's about? He said, I'm nor an arrest,
but I probably will be for I leave here.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Oh yeah. By the time if he is talking to me,
I'm going to be under arrest for murder. That's right.
He thinks nobody is listening. He picks up the cell
phone and calls some money and goes Before I can
leave here, I'm going to be under arrest. It's not
the first time someone has made an accidental or inadverted confession.
(31:45):
This guy knows he's going to be under arrest for murder.
Does the name Robert Durst ring a bell? Take a
listen to our cup one.
Speaker 13 (31:56):
Robert Durst was famous for being from one of the
wealthiest families in New York, but most of his adult
life dealt with a very dark side of life. Long
suspected of being involved in the disappearance of his wife,
Kathy McCormick in nineteen eighty two, he was the subject
of investigations that never could figure out what happened to Kathy.
Then the two thousand murder of someone considered his best friend,
(32:18):
Susan Berman, and the death of his neighbor Morris Black.
In all the investigations, the only one that saw a
courtroom was the Morris Black murder. Even though Durst chopped
up Morris Black, something one would associate with a murder,
not a defensive killing. Durst was acquitted of the murder.
It wasn't until Robert Durst agreed to do a special
on HBO that he was finally caught with his pants down,
(32:40):
so to speak, in the bathroom with a live microphone.
Robert Durst confessed and all played out in a program
he didn't have to do.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
So he's in the bathroom, using the bathroom, literally with
his pants down and muttering to himself in the middle
of an HBO special. Still mightd up take a listen
to HBO's the jinx. Well maybe this.
Speaker 11 (33:01):
Is the all right, there it is?
Speaker 2 (33:11):
You're yeah, he's acting like he has no idea what's
going on around? And what is this door with a
picture of a man on it? Oh, it's the bathroom,
he goes in. Listen, I'm wrong this.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Estion.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Okay. What he said right there he's muttering to himself
is quote what a disaster. He's talking about the HBO
special that he has voluntarily chose to take part in.
And here's the money shot.
Speaker 14 (33:51):
Listen him a question, kill the followers.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Idiot, he says, all alone in the bathroom, I'm having
difficulty with the question. I killed them all, of course,
And who do we mean by of course? His wife
Morris Black and his best friend Kathy Berman, who knew
(34:38):
he murdered his wife. There are so many other examples.
Robert Durst is just one of them who makes a
quote accidental confession to you, Daryl Cohen, nothing under our
constitution protects you from accidental or unknowing confessions being brought
(35:02):
in at court.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
What you're saying is, nancy, nothing protects you from your own, pure,
unadulterated stupidity. You're right, he is not being questioned. He's
giving voluntary answers to the ethernet or the Internet, or
the video or the audio. No, you can't be protected
from yourself unless you're smart enough to do what a
(35:27):
certain judge was told years ago when I prosecuted computed
in front of him. Judge Jack Langford had a habit
of just for rating lawyers, and his secretary, Gloria, who
was terrific, had the large letters large pond kyd BMS
on one of his rolling file cabinets, and every time
(35:48):
she heard him but reat a lawyer, she would buzz him.
He would be forced to turn around, look at the
file cabinet insident for keep your damn big mouth shut. Well,
that's what should be these fools who commit these crimes.
But they're smarter than you are, smarter than I am,
and nobody's listening or watching me. But at some point,
(36:10):
if you trip and tall your toast.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
You know what, I remember Judge Schreyer very well. I
tried cases in front of him, and we always degenerated
into a huge argument. And after one of those arguments
he had to go to the hospital with chest pains. Okay,
that's a whole nother story. But what about another Itgit
(36:35):
killer OJ Simpson talk about inadvertent confessions. Take a listen
to Dave mack in one thirty three.
Speaker 13 (36:44):
Chris Darden, the OJ Simpson prosecutor, during an appearance on
the TV show of the View, claims OJ Simpson confess
to the crime. Darden is referencing a story that's been
told by Sergeant Jeff Stewart, who was a guard at
the La County Jail. He claims he overheard a convers
between O. J. Simpson and former NFL Great Term Minister
Rosie Greer. Rosie Greer was visiting OJ Simpson as a minister,
(37:07):
and Sergeant Stewart claims he heard Simpson yell, I didn't
mean to do it. I'm sorry. He then claims Rosie
Greer told OJA, OJ, You've got to come clean. You've
got to tell somebody. Sergeant Stewart did in fact testify
during the O. J. Simpson trial, but he was only
allowed to say that he heard a statement. He couldn't say
(37:27):
what the statement was. Simpson's defense argued statements between inmates
and clergy is protected, and Judge lance Ito ruled the
full accounting could not be admitted as evidence.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
Nancy, let me interrupt for a second. I think it's
important that you mentioned that Rosie Greer was a former
teammate of OJ Simpsons on the Los Angeles Rams. He
wasn't just a minister that came after his playing career
was over.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Normally, communications between clergy and a defendant are kept secret. However,
if you violate or pierce the privilege by screaming it
out saw all the sheriffs hear it, then you typically
lose the privilege. It's like you're talking to your lawyer
(38:15):
at a dinner party and everybody can overhear you, so
you have waived the privilege by speaking in front of
other people. Of course, lance Ito chose his own unique
interpretation of the law and did not let Simpson's confession in.
But what about this idiot William Korzon. Take a listen
to what he asked the police talk about an inadvertent
(38:38):
confession Dave Mack in one thirty.
Speaker 13 (38:41):
Nine, William Courzon got away with murder for four decades.
He and his wife, Gloria, married in nineteen sixty eight
moved to Pennsylvania, where they were regularly visited by police
for their constant fighting. From nineteen sixty eight until Gloria
disappeared in nineteen eighty one, law enforcement authorities investigated in
documented numerous violent assaults where William Corson assaulted and threatened
to killed Gloria Coorson, investigator said, the couple got into
(39:03):
a violent argument in which Gloria pointed her husband's gun
at him and tried to shoot him, but Korson wrestled
the gun from his wife's hands and shot her in
the head, killing her. He then loaded her on his
boat and dumped her body in the Delaware River. After
the case went cold and was put on a shelf,
Warrington police spent two years reinvestigating before they finally had
enough evidence to take it to a grand jury. When
(39:23):
police showed up to arrest him, Coorzon said the one
thing that sealed his fate. He asked investigators, did you
find the body?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Did you find the body. No, how did he know
there was a body? How did he know? She didn't
just leave him? He knew there was a dead body.
And that was his inadvertent confession. I've got so many
in inverted accidental confessions, but you've got to hear this
one that results from a butt dial. I make the
(39:52):
twins say pocket dial, but it's a butt dial. Take
a listen to the story of Aaron Burial, the true
story In one.
Speaker 13 (40:00):
World of crime, it's the victim that usually calls nine
one one. Roswell, New Mexico. Authorities answered the nine one
one call, expecting someone to need help, but this time
it's a butt dial, an unintentional dialing of nine one one.
Nine to one dispatch is about to disconnect the call
when they hear thirty seven year old Aaron Burrell talking
about a home he just burglarized with his partner in crime,
(40:21):
Yvonne Thiberg. Nine one one is recording as the couple
does a quick inventory of what they just stole, mainly
a TV from a house in Roswell. Dispatchers listened to
the unintended confession for nearly forty five minutes as the
duo continued to discuss their alleged heist. Police went to
the home address that was mentioned in the call and
it had been robbed. Aaron Burrell and Yvonne Thiberg were
(40:42):
both arrested and charged with multiple burglary related offenses. And
the confession is all on the nine to one one.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Tape confession by butt dial to ted to Corporal Josh
Weininger is with us from the Arnold PD. So this guy,
when he sees the detect us, we're back to our
case in chief the in this case, Laurel Harp. As
soon as the detectives leaves the room, he picks up
the phone and basically makes a tell. Colin says, in essence, man,
(41:10):
I'm going to jail. He knew the gig was up.
Speaker 6 (41:14):
Yes, he knew. He made several of those incriminating statements
out loud. He was cussing at himself at times, and
it was those portions of the interview which led myself
in Detective Ackerman solved this case.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
What do you mean he was cursing at himself.
Speaker 6 (41:32):
Just like when you're mad at yourself, like verbally out loud,
just upset with himself that he was in this situation
because he thought he was going to jail.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
To you, Tony Krauss. Was he charged with first degree murder?
Speaker 11 (41:48):
He was?
Speaker 4 (41:49):
It was.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
It took a couple, a couple more interviews were with him,
and then the Prosky Attorney's Office in Jersy did issue
charged it against him for a first murder and an
armed criminal action on September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, and
he was arrested the next day.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Twenty plus years pass and through a in an inadvertent
confession a slip of a tongue, he is convicted on
homicide charges. Justice delayed, but not denied. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.