September 17, 2025 • 45 mins
State formally files to seek death penalty against Tyler Robinson during his initial court appearance, Correctional officers are going to extraordinary measures to make sure inmate 460956 Robinson makes it to his trial alive. Robinson is under a physical watch in special housing. Prosecutor says, he does not take the death penalty decision lightly and made it independently based on evidence.
State filed criminal information charging Tyler James Robinson, age 22, with the following crimes. Count one, aggravated murder, a capital offense for intentionally or knowingly causing the death of Charlie Kirk under circumstances that created a great risk of death to others. Count two, felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury, a first degree felony. The state alleging aggravating factors on counts one and two because aledgely the defendant targeted Charlie Kirk based on Charlie's political expression and knowing children were present and witness the murder.
More arrest, disgusting pedophile, remember George Zinn, 71, the get away liar, who proclaimed he killed Charlie Kirk as audience members scrambled to safety. During Zinn's arrest and his charge with obstructing justice, admitted he only claimed to be responsible to allow the actual shooter a head start. Officers asked Zinn's to have his phone to search to prove he was innocent. What they found is horrific, you wont believe the ages of these kids. Now, Zinn also faces four counts of sexual exploitation of a minor.
A Utah judge, Judge Graff, along with Prosecutor Chad Gruner, has issued Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica, a pretrial protective order. The order bars Robinson from contacting Erika in any way, and warns of additional charges if he violates the order.
There are number of individuals currently being investigated and interrogated and the number yet to be interrogated and investigated specific to the chat room. We are very much in our ongoing investigation. Kennedy: So others could have been involved? Patel: Yes, sir.
As more details are unveiled, Robinson's mom also recognized him in the surveillance images and confronted him. Not only did Robinson's Discord chat group see him on the surveillance images, but also wrote silly memes, laughing, implying they new it was going to happen.
Joining Nancy Grace today,
- Randolph Rice - Former Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense & Civil Attorney at Rice Law, website: ricelawmd.com, IG, FB, X: @ricelawmd
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Also featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock,
- www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Chris McDonough -Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, worked over 300 Homicides in 25-year career, Trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force; & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room" www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic,
- Germania Rodriguez - Chief US Reporter, DailyMail.com
- Sydney Sumner - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The Charlie Kirk killer suspect death penalty announced.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This as a.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Family feud emerges over the suspect's male lover. I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Tyler James Ronson Cala one as you made of murder
can two fellow discharged the fire arm causing serious fility injury.
I am finally a notice.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Of intent to see the death tactic because the fat
his belief believed to have target and Charlie Kirk based
on Charlie Urg's political expression and then so knowing the
children were present and.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
We witnessed the second death penalty is the death penalty?
Is the death penalty. They loaded him up. That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
With so many alternative counts, it will be hard for
a jury to find him not guilty.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Listen, I am filing a criminal information Jurny Tyler James Robinson,
age twenty.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
Two with the following crime.
Speaker 6 (01:16):
Cal one hag remated murder a.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Calital events or intentionally we're knowingly causing the death and
Charlie heard under circumstances they created a great.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
Risk of death to others.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Count two fellay discharge of the fighter arm causing serious
fody injury, a first degree.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
FELA legal term. They ain't playing.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
what we're learning in the courtroom. Straight out to Randolph
Rice joining us, former felony prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney,
joining us at Rice law. Randolph Rice charging in the altarative.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I've done it a million times.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
If I got a case and the grand jury had
not indicted in the alternative, I would either a send
it back to the grand jury and represent it myself
to get those alternative counts, or have the judge charge
the jury with the alternative counts. What I mean by
that is, you shoot Jackie, you plan to shoot Jackie.
It's malice, aforethought, it's premeditated murder.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Murder one, So I charge you with murder one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But I'm worried, So then I charged you with voluntary
manslaughter murder two, involuntary manslaughter if I'm desperate. In other words,
there is no way you are walking out of that
courtroom if I have anything to do with it without
a conviction. They loaded him up, explain in a nutshell Rice, nutshell.
Speaker 7 (02:54):
Well, Nancy you did a great job and explain that,
because if you don't get that top count, the most
serious count, you've got the back. But the problem here is,
and there is a problem, is that I think that
they may be reaching on this aggravated murder.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Now.
Speaker 7 (03:07):
They may be using this as leverage to force him
or try to get him to take a plead. But
the aggravating circumstances at this point I think are very very.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sough, head blowing off.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
Are you.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
They're reaching? Are you serious?
Speaker 9 (03:26):
This guy?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
According to the state, this guy steaks out in the place,
and I believe they're going to end up with video
showing that was not his first trip to the top
of that roof. He stakes it out, he plans it
in advance, even a wardrobe change. A lot of forethought
goes into this. He targets someone because of their freedom
(03:47):
of speech. I don't care if you agree with Kirk
or disagree with Kirk. I really couldn't care less doesn't matter.
He targeted him for his freedom of speech. And that
is a major, major aggravating circumstances, akin to shooting a judge,
or shooting a political figure like the president or the
(04:09):
vice president, or shooting a prosecutor or shooting a cop.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You go after them.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Because of what they represent that you don't like, and
you actually, you know what, you really know how to kick.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It off wrong, don't you. I bet you're a super
downer at a party.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You come in to crime stories and blurt out the
state is reaching what.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Could be more aggravating, well, Mancy.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
The problem is is that they're trying to rely on
the fact that there were children president or that the
crime could have hurt somebody else, and again, that seems
to be a physical shrimp creature.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Show him the crowd here there you go.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Look, look at that he shot from a little under
two hundred yards away, and you're saying nobody else was
in danger.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Rice, look at your monitor.
Speaker 7 (04:59):
No body else is in danger in this situation, at
least from Again, I'm arguing the defense here, and I
think that the state has a good argument. But in
the defense's argument, they're going to say this was a
single bullet that had a single target that ultimately killed
Charlie Kirk, and it didn't endanger the other people in
the crowd. And that's where there may be a problem
for the prosecutor's office in trying to seek the charge
(05:22):
that seeks the death pilting.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay, so Randolph, you come in, you plot down in
the studio, and you first say the state is reaching.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
They can't prove it. Did I not hear? You just
say the state has a good argument. So which one
is it? Does the state have a good argument? I
say they do?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Or are they overreaching? You know that's a very sad
second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense
attorney that doesn't say, in a murder case, you're overreaching?
Speaker 7 (05:49):
Oh no, every single case. Every defense attorney says that
you're overreaching. I do it in all the cases that
I defend, because that's their job. Their job is to
challenge the prosecution to say did you try to get
too much?
Speaker 8 (06:00):
Here?
Speaker 7 (06:01):
And again, this is a tactic that the prosecutortion is
using to try to get the defendant to take a
police saying, hey, look, did you actually.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Say the P word? Plea? You think there's going to
be a plea?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
You think they're going to pull a coburger with the
whole world watching them. You don't think they're going to
take this to trial and seek the death penalty, whether
they get it or not.
Speaker 7 (06:21):
I thought Coburger was going to go to trial, and
look what happened there. I think that this is something
they're trying to push him into, is to take a place.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, you know what, that's the first thing you've said
so far to me, Randolph, Rice, that makes any sense.
But actually, actually, now that I think about it, you're
absolutely correct. The number of counts could be a tactic
to make the defendant plea guilty, because there seems to
be no way out with all these alternative counts.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I don't see it happening though. I don't see a
plea going down in this case.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
But again, you're right, we didn't see one coming in
Coburger either.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But put them up one more time, Randolph. Guys, let
me to mind you. Rice is a.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Former very successful felony prosecutor. He's won a lot of cases.
Now he is a criminal defense attorney, civil attorney. So, Randolph,
the aggravating circumstance you mentioned was just that other people
were endangered. It's not like you shoot Jackie in the
studio and it's just the two of you. This is
a shooting with a throng of people, thousands of people.
(07:24):
If that bullet had gone the wrong way if there
had been a gust of wind, who knows. But they
included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred in the
presence of children. Now, that is aggravating a violent felony
that occurs in the presence of children. How are you
going to get out of that, Randolph Rice.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
Bringing jow shild in there that actually saw the murder.
They're going to have to prove that in court that
a child actually saw it, was affected by it, and
therefore that's the aggravating circumstance. And so I don't know
if they've got that right now. You know, it just
might be tough for them on that account.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
You're right, that's an element of proof. They will have
to bring in a child witness to prove it. Guys,
a lot has happened since these charges were announced formally
in court. Now what that was was an arrayment, an
arrangment where the defendant is brought in because you cannot
stay behind bars over seventy two hours without being told
(08:21):
what you're charged with by typically a magistrate. I believe
this is going to beat the trial judge from here out.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
But we're also.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Learning not just the charges but how the murder went down.
Listen at approximately.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Eleven to fifty one am. The suspect of her campus
from the north. You seen wearing a lave shirt with
an American flag in the center, a darter baseball gut,
and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, the suspect keeps his
head down and rarely raises his head enough to get
a clear image of his face as he proceeds across
(09:00):
the campus. He's seen walking with.
Speaker 8 (09:02):
An unusual day.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
The suspect was with very.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Little vandy in his right leg, consistent with a rifle
to be hidden in these pants.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Joining us now, Harmonia on Rodriguez, she if you as
reporter Daily Mail, Harmonia, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So that explains.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Hey, let's see that TMC video we have of him walking,
because I can see what the prosecution is talking about,
especially if they play this in promo.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Harmonia, explain what they're talking.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
About, right, So, officials gave us more insight about the
hours before this shooting last week. As we can see
on the screen, the suspect was seen arriving on campus
about four hours before the shooting, and there he is limping.
Speaker 9 (09:48):
Now, this made the public wonder why this person was limping?
Do they have a limp?
Speaker 10 (09:53):
Yesterday we learned that actually he had hidden the rifle
that he used in one of his pant legs, and
that's why he's limping the way we see him on screen.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Chris mcdonnald joining US director Coldcase's Foundation Former Homicide to
take a start of the interview room on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Who has gone to this scene, to the home, to.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
The shooting scene, through the neighborhood. You know that's pretty bold,
is he?
Speaker 8 (10:23):
Is?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
He not heard of ring doorbell cams because they catch
him going door to door to door to door.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
They've got almost an uninterrupted path of him walking.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Through the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And don't tell me mcdonaughhe didn't case this out, Like
where am I going to park? How am I going
to get away? This has been at least at least
days in the making.
Speaker 11 (10:44):
Absolutely Nancy, And what I've learned is she did have
that vehicle up there and it was parked about a
mile away from the crime chine, and he walked in
to the crime chine to casehit out initially before the
situation went down, and then later. I've also learned that
(11:05):
he turned his phone off for a short period of
time and then turned it back on after the homicide.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Chris McDonough speaking of walking through the neighborhood to his
the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Where did he park his muscle car?
Speaker 11 (11:17):
The muscle card Nancy was parked approximately a mile away
at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensis jacksonvill State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
of a hit new podcast series, Bodybags.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
With Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Joe Scott really did he pull a coburger slash morphew
where they both think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their
phone off.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
There it's like my teen children. They're seventeen, believe it
or not.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
The phone is constantly on, even right down to zero
one percent. Okay, they will not turn it off even
when they charge it. See that is a pattern or practice.
So when you just coincidentally turn your phone off at
the time of the incident, I mean, think about it,
Jo Scott.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
If it weren't for the murder.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
The mo modus operandi method of operation would be laughable
because you see the pings leading up to a certain
spot and then poof the phone goes off, the murder occurs,
then poof, the phone goes back on, and you see
the return back to your home nest.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
Right, It's just yeah, yeah, you're right, and welcome to
the real world here, because these phones are the modern
crime scene. Because it seems like every case that we cover,
you know, I think most famously to this point Coburger's case,
you go to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken
a lot, spoken about quite a bit in that particular case.
(12:53):
We have established patterns, why are you going to turn
it off at this particular time? And look, the case
is not proven simply based on that, but it's another
element that can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
This video from our friends I've wat the Independent speaking
of the rifle. Listen.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
The rifle, ammunition, rounds, and towel were sent for forensic processing.
DNA consistent that Robin Knock was a defendant was found
on the trigger, other parts of the rifle, the fire cartridge, casing,
two of the three how to fire cartridges, and the towel.
(13:32):
Law enforcement was unable to immediately locate the shooter, so
the published photos of the shooter from the UBIU surveillance
cameras and asked for the public's help to identify it. Meanwhile,
law enforcement continued to trying to identify the shooter.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Through other means, joining us.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Doctor Bethany Marshall now Psychoalysis out of the LA jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
She is the author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
You can see her now on peacock and she said,
doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Before you launch into the whole furry.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Connection, I want to hear your thoughts on a guy
that comes from a loving home, very loving. We've heard Wow,
he was afraid to tell his parents he was dating
another guy that was transitioning. The family knew, and I'm
going to tell you about that in just a moment.
So he comes from a very loving home. He was smart.
(14:32):
Doctor Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at the top one
percent of I believe it was this act exam almost
forty thousand dollars of scholarship.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Goes to college, doesn't like it, leaves college, comes out,
pursues Listen.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
To this thirty two thousand dollars. This scholarship is available
for forty years or a semesters.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean they're supportive, they love it.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
My bottom line here is what went wrong, And I'm
not talking about his relationship with a guy. That's irrelevant,
doesn't matter. Some people say right, some people say wrong,
don't care. But what I'm talking about, Bethany, is how
do you go from a loving home when the parent's
(15:20):
like you're the apple of their eye to becoming a
psycho shooter?
Speaker 12 (15:25):
Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we
call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the thirty two thousand
dollars scholarship, but then he drops out of college and
studies to become an electrician. And what that tells me,
if he were my patient, is that he cannot tolerate
being with his peers. He doesn't feel intact or good
(15:48):
enough about himself. He doesn't have a strong ego. So
the risk factor for shooters is that they often feel
insulted by society. They feel that they are in a
one down position, that everybody's bullying them, everybody's acting like
they're better than them, and they hold on to every
little grudge until they have some kind of a profound
(16:10):
loss in their life, and in this case it may
have been dropping out of college, and they become even angrier.
And when they decide to shoot, they don't just walk
through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on the top of
a building. Have you noticed that about school shooters? I mean,
one we covered many years ago was a guy who
stood at the top of a staircase after having locked
(16:31):
all the doors so the students wouldn't get out. We
call it like the fish in a barrel kind of
moo of the shooting. So that's the reversing of the
feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.
He's like the big man on campus, literally whizzing bullets
over children and families' heads, talking about getting an erection
(16:51):
which is inscribed on the bullet, and feeling powerful for
the first.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Time in his life.
Speaker 12 (16:57):
So he's trying to reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless,
and at the bottom of society.
Speaker 7 (17:02):
To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah City University.
Speaker 11 (17:06):
The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
This scholarship is available for forty years or a semesters.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
You see are in a live shirt with a Murgan
flag in the center, a data baseball down in large sunglasses.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
He arrived on campus in different clothing, change into what
we see in those surveillance images, then changed back into
the other outfit.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
He shoots, and then he's off the buildings in four days.
Then we see him limping as he's walking through.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
He had a conscious objective formal charges read in open court,
but I'm more into those charges in my mind were predictable,
although the state did get creative in the aggravating.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Circumstances that they charged.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's not just murder, it's aggravated murder with quote aggravating
circumstances and the significance of that.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
In order to see the death penalty, you have.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
To include aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,
there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice
joining us vetteran trial lawyer, they vary, but in every
jurisdiction across our country, you have to have aggravating circumstances
to seek the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
In Coburger, it was mass murder more than one body.
It's mass murder.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Here explain the significance of them putting in the indictment,
in the charges, the aggravating circumstances, they have to be proved,
just like every element of the crime.
Speaker 7 (18:44):
Nanth You're exactly right. You've got to prove every single
element because what happens is the jurors are going to
get a jury instruction at some point in time, and
it's going to have all these different elements and it's
going to say unless you find beyond a reasonable doubt
that every single element has been met, then you can't
find them guilty of that charge. And so there is
the issue with does the state meet these aggravating circumstances
(19:09):
that gets them to the conviction, that gets them to
the death penalty.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So, for instance, in every prosecution, and we'll just go
with murdersys or that's what we're talking about tonight, you
have to prove who is the victim, that the indictment
has the victim correct, You have to prove the jurisdiction.
You have to prove malice of forethought, even if it's
malicet lasts for a moment, the between twinkling of an instant,
(19:35):
the blink of an eye qualifies as time to prove intent.
But when you seek the death penalty, you have to
include these aggravating circumstances and then they become an element
of proof. You have to prove them each element beyond
a reasonable doubt. Like you said earlier, Correctly, they may
(19:57):
have to bring in a child to prove a child
was in harm's way. So we'll see how the state's
going to prove it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Another thing we are learning about how the defendant was recognized. Listen.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
On September eleven, five, the day after the shooting, Robinson's
mother saw the photo and the shooter in the news
and data. Shooter looked like for a seven Robinson's father
called hers and asked him where he was. He said
(20:45):
he was at home sick, and then he had also
been at home home second on September.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Tenth, hold on just a moment, her money Rodriguez joining
US Daily Mail.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
He said he was home sick. What did he add?
The dog ate my homework. I'm sick. That's weak.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
These were details that I mean, we're really harrowing if
you imagine what these parents went through. As we just
saw official saying apparently the day after the shooting, this
mother looks at the images released by the FBI as
they were hunting this person down.
Speaker 9 (21:16):
She thinks it looks like her son.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Calls him.
Speaker 9 (21:19):
He says he's at home sick for the second day
in a row.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, you know what, Joscott Morgan, what about it?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball
hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know
it's them.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
Of course you would, Yeah, all of us would. There's
no way that you're not going to recognize your child.
I think the big thing here, you know, probably for
this mother, and this is more of a doctor Bethany issue,
But what do you do with that information? You know,
how does it because you've been with him his entire life,
so you know, again she's going to call him up.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
She wants to confirm it.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
You know, do I believe my lying eyes? And it
turns out that her we're not lying in this case?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
And answer you know what, You're right, doctor Bethany Marshall.
How will this affect the parents going forward knowing.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
They turned their son in?
Speaker 12 (22:12):
You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on
the break and that sound where he has the thirty
two thousand dollars scholarship. Do you notice that his affect
is very flat. He doesn't seem excited, So it's the
mother that goes oooh, and then he kind of mimics
the woo in a less sharp tone or less elevated tone.
(22:32):
So I'm going to guess that this mother has a
long history of trying to pump her son up to
act normal in society. So when she sees this image
of him, I don't think is as much of a
shock as you and I might think.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I would guess.
Speaker 12 (22:48):
You know how parents know their children that they've always
known something is wrong, and they're always waiting for the
other shoe to drop. She sees the image, it's confirmed,
she calls dad, Reality meets internal fearfulness, and now she's
the one who has to turn him in. Maternal guilt, Nancy.
(23:09):
She's going to feel maternal guilt not only that she
turned him in, but that she gave birth to somebody
who could have done this, and she'll blame herself for
having raised him in the wrong way. Although we know
these kinds of disorders are very biologically based, it is
not the parent's fault.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Okay, I understood about fifty percent of what you said. Okay.
I think what you said is.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
The mother has likely spent her whole life trying to
present to the world and to herself and her son.
Speaker 9 (23:42):
Is normal.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And I don't mean that he's mentally insane, because he
clearly knew what he did was wrong. He planned it,
he concealed it, and he covered it up afterwards as
evidence of guilty conscience.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
He knew it was wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But mom compensating, saying, Look, he won a scholarship, He's
so smart. Look this he, you know, is a boy scout.
Look he sings in the choir. He's awesome, he cuts
the grass. I love him, He's wonderful, all the while
knowing something is off. That's a lifetime of compensating. Dr Bethany.
Speaker 12 (24:14):
Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And I
obviously I haven't met this guy. I don't know if
he's associate path, but let's see. Theoretically, if he was,
the mother would likely have noticed many things.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Look, look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows,
and I always wonder I look at people with like
a six bedroom home worth over a half a million dollars.
They're all going to college, they have great jobs.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
What's not to be happy about. I don't get it,
Dr Bethany. Maybe I've set the standard too low.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
But you know, I got a family, I've got a home,
I've got a job for right now, we're all healthy.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm on top of the world.
Speaker 12 (24:58):
I don't get it, Bethany, But we know that this
guy was supremely unhappy. He was so unhappy he couldn't
even follow through with a scholarship, so unhappy that he
can't even smile when he gets the scholarship. Nancy, this
has nothing to do with his upbringing or his family.
I can say that fairly confidently, even without knowing them.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
This type of.
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Disorder is what we call psycho biological, meaning, to break
it down, there's something wrong with his brain. If you
did a brain scan, you would probably see that there's
a there's a quieting in the part of the brain
that's responsible for empathy. You might even see like a
coburger syndrome of bullying other people and wanting to be
(25:41):
in a one up position.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
No, no, no, I'm not going to let you go
down the Aaron Hernandez route where they claim the defense climbs.
He kills so murdered so many people because there was
something wrong with his brain. When he function completely normally
and excelled. It was a multi millionaire blew it.
Speaker 12 (26:05):
No no, no, But as he does like going to
be on defense, this guy was not functioning normally. He
was on top of that building sweating, depositing all this DNA.
In the text we read that he wants to take
the secret with him till old age, so.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
He actually thinks he's going to get away with this.
That is something seriously wrong with rise. Please get her
back in the middle of the road and out of
the waves.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room
and they're not going to get caught.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
They all think that sure, it's not special.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
Yeah, that's why it's been proven that definitely doesn't work,
because it's not a to term for people to not
commit crimes because they don't think about I'm ever going
to get caught, so their final to worry about getting
shot at a firing squad.
Speaker 13 (26:53):
Mister Robinson, I also wish to inform you of your
rights against self incrimination anything that you say in court
today could be used against you, and we want to
protect your constitutional rights. Mister Robinson. At this time you
will remain in custody without bail.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Robinson's mother expressed a concern to her husband that the
suspect shoot low life Robinson. Robinson's father a group. Robinson's
father explained that over the last year or so, Robinson
had become more political and had started to lean more
to the left.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
As if somehow being left wing means that you're gonna
gun somebody down at long range. I think the significance
of the mom saying the allegedclator had become more political
and left leaning was it was a departure from the family.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Values and what he had been his whole life up
until that point.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Now, we heard last night that a relative of the
roommate blames the roommate for radicalizing the defendant. But the
reality is is it doesn't matter who persuaded him. It
doesn't matter. He did this shooting of his own volition.
(28:17):
Many people have wondered did his parents know of his
relationship with his roommate.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes, they did.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Listen, she said that Robinson began and day in his roommate,
a biological mal whose present transitioning generous. This resulted in
several discussions with family in person, but especially between Robinson
and his father, who had very different political views. In
(28:45):
one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie Curry
would be holding an event and you need you, which
Robinson said was a stud ataman for the advantage Robin.
She's heard of spreading the page.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I'm not quite sure how a murder of a loving
father of two, a husband has turned into an argument
about furries and trans Sidney, So I'm joining me, crime stories,
investigative reporter.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
None of that matters. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,
if he was by, if he was trans. None of
that bears on the elements of proving a murder case.
How did that take center?
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Stave si Well some interesting bullet engraevings, and we're learning
more about those. So at first we maybe thought that
this was a reference that Robinson was a furry, was
part of one of these counter culture groups. But it
seems like now based on his text to his boyfriend,
(29:59):
that Robinson was just making a giant joke. So his
references to the furry group notices bulge Uwu ooh wu.
It was just a joke and it didn't mean anything.
So that's why this took such a big part of
this was we thought that he was making some kind
(30:21):
of statement with these bullet inscriptions.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just
a joke? Sydney Summer.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate, Sydney.
The engravings that you are suggesting are just a joke.
We're on the bullets used to murder an innocent person.
So I don't know who's claiming you know that's a joke.
Speaker 14 (30:48):
Listen, remember how I was engraving bullets. The messages are
mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulge uwu
on Fox News, I might have a stroke.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
All right, I'm going to have to leave it. That
really sucks.
Speaker 14 (31:06):
Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun does just fine.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (31:11):
I think that was a two thousand dollars scope. Delete
this exchange.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
So this is an exchange that the legis shooter, the
Kirk shooter is having with the romantic partner, as the
roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving
the bullets? Whoa, whoa Wait a minute, number one, what
(31:36):
psycho engraves the bullets? I guess this guy in Luigia MANGIONI.
But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was
there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Hello, accomplice codefendant.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
The problem, Nancy, They need that roommate in their case
because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk
killer Kirk shooter to those text messages.
Speaker 7 (32:02):
They need to keep that roommate, that love interest happy.
They need to keep them close because that's going to
be probably one of their first witnesses.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So I hear what you're saying, Randolph, the two are
not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You can get his testimony and charge him as an
accomplished murder at the same time. In fact, m let
me guess, does your wife do all the cooking in
the home.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer? I would let
the roommate have a few months behind.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Bars to see if that jogs his recollection, so he
can be a co defendant and a witness at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
What about that thought he can.
Speaker 7 (32:46):
But remember, you've got to put this in front of
a jury. And how does the jury see that? Because
under your scenario, if you put him in jail and
all of a sudden, the defense train says, hey, you've
been sitting in jail. The prosecutor puts you there, so
you feel you're forced to tell his story. That doesn't
look good in front of the jury.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
No, no, no, you can argue that till you're blue
in the face. Randolph Rice.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
The fact that he would be arrested as a co defendant,
and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty in
a court of law. That said, of course, the code
defendant goes to jail. That's not unique. That said, what
do you make of that text? My original question before
you went off with your pity party about the roommate
(33:34):
going to jail, That shows me that he was there.
The roommate was there and would recall the defendant engraving bullets.
And don't you imagine me, go, Hi, Tyler Robinson, why
are you engraving bullets?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I would so are you telling me now he had
no idea what was happening?
Speaker 7 (33:54):
No, I think you're right. He did have a knowledge
of what was going on, and I think that there's
a potential that the roommates charge, and you're exactly right
on that. I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.
But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think
you certainly had that ability to charge them with knowing
what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes can you
charge them what happened after? And then the text messages
(34:15):
that becomes another sort of sticky, sticky situation.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,
Chris McDonough to actually engrave a bullet. It sounds like
trying to thread three needles at once. How do you
engrave a bullet? Well, there's a couple of ways of
doing it, Nancy. You can use, you know, a handheld engraver.
But let's also take a hard look at the messaging
(34:39):
here as right, you just happened to have a hand
held engraver in your tool pocket.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Who would in your hand held engraver?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Step back and punt. You have anything else for me, Yeah,
you can.
Speaker 11 (34:53):
You can buy that really simple at home depot. But
also recognize that he says most mostly the FN messages
were mostly a big mean I e. There's another messaging
in the showcasing or the the cartridges that were recovered.
They only recovered the well. They didn't find any showcasing
(35:16):
on the on the roof, so that means a it
was either left in the bolt of the of the weapon,
and then the three in the magazine show. The fact
that he was engraving a message on those cartridges tells
us there's a bigger story.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Jess gott Morgan.
This is why we discussed cases before we take them
in front of the jury. As I'm sitting here, Jackie
says she's got a handheld home engraver. You know, the
things you learn about people in a dark studio. But
since McDonough dodged the question, if you don't happen to
(36:03):
be one of those people that have a home hand engraver,
then how would you do it with a knife?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
How do you do that? And it's got to be
legible because these were easily read.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact
this struck me from the beginning, you know, because we've
had a couple If you remember the Minneapolis shooting at
mass a few weeks ago that individual wrote these kind
of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that was
with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,
(36:36):
you have to get something that is you know, I
think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the Morgue, we use
what referred to as diamond engravers to mark the basis
of bullets, and this works on a metallic surface as well.
You have electrical engravers. I don't know if he went
that far.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
And the problem is, wait, wait, I was about to
mock you about the diamond engraver, but wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Didn't he work as an.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Electrician nor as an electric electricians Well.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
Yeah, that tool he very well might, or he could
have some semblance of that.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
That would be.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
What you have to have is a metallic body that
will mark on brass, because this is brass. That's one
of the softest metals that's out there, and people doing grave,
you know, soldiers have been doing it for years and years.
I wonder where you got this idea from. But you
know what, I'm more interested in, Nancy, not just the engraving.
I'm fascinated by the fact that this guy, according to
(37:34):
the pressor not only left engravings to mark these rounds,
but he also left his DNA on specific components within
the weapon, even the trigger. Nancy, this guy's leaving signatures everywhere.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
When you say within the weapon that you're right, where
did authorities find DNA?
Speaker 1 (37:55):
And they found a lot of it.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the
trigger housing, and I say housing actually on the surface
of the trigger, so that's probably going to be touched
DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, this weapon has
what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like
the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have
to feed it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to
(38:18):
take your thumb and press these rounds into that in
dwelling magazine. So any of those surfaces around there where
you're trying to leverage this thing, even on the surface
of the bolt, the handle of the bolt, any of
these areas you can deposit DNA. And let's face it,
he had to sing wrapped in a towel. He's got
(38:39):
to sing in kind of a pristine condition he's left
it in. So you know, they had a field day
when they got their hands on the sing in the lab.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Police kariny rob in sudden roommate a file one of
your gull now was involving a romantic relationship with Robinson.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
The roommate all police that the roommate.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Received that such for a while, and I said about
the shooting, and he did provide those messages to police.
Speaker 14 (39:07):
I can get close to it, but there's a squad
car parked right by it. I think they already swept
that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm
wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon
as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my
old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.
I don't even know if it had a serial number,
but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.
(39:30):
I had to leave it in a bush where I
changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring
it with I might have to abandon it and hope
they don't find Prince. How though, will I explain losing
it to my old man.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I think he needs to get his priorities straight. He's
worried about his dad being mad he lost the Grandpa's gun.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
What about the death penalty? That what is he thinking?
Doctor Bethanny mar And.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Did you notice this is a recrey of all of
the texts the alleged slator sends to the room. If
you notice roommates not answering, He's like, what, But the
guy's worried about losing Rampa's.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Gun, Nancy.
Speaker 12 (40:17):
I'd love to talk about the idea that he thinks
that what's on the bullets are a meme. A meme
is a joke, so he's already minimizing the severity of
the alleged crime. A meme is something that goes viral
and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy of being famous,
like being some kind of a hero. The reference to
(40:41):
the bulge, I take all of this seriously.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
None of it is a joke.
Speaker 12 (40:45):
The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.
If he were my patient, I would ask him what
is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet
over a crowd of family and children. Is it that
sadism is exciting? Having power over people as exciting. I'd
(41:07):
want to try to get to the root of that,
to understand this guy's mind.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You know what, There's so much happening in this case.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Remember the old guy at the get go that claims
he was responsible for the shaving.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I did it. I did it, raising both hands now.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Saying that he was just trying to give the real
shooter a chance to get away. Okay, listen to what
the alleged shater says about that.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I thought they caught the person.
Speaker 14 (41:34):
No, they grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone
in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle
from my drop points shortly after, but most of that
side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough
to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Why why did I do it?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (41:51):
I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be
negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,
I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't
seen anything about them finding it.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
How long have you been planning this?
Speaker 14 (42:06):
A bit over a week, I believe.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
So much for the insanity defense, he had this thing
planned out cold. But my point is George Zen, the
one that threw investigators off at the beginning, claiming he
did it. He was arrested. Now everybody's trashing the FBI
director for arresting him.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
He said he did it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Well, there's a sad sack right there. Okay, bombshell, Harmonia Rodriguez.
George Zen has caught a few charges himself, hasn't he.
Speaker 9 (42:35):
Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.
Speaker 10 (42:38):
As Hugh said, right after the shooting, this man was
film saying I shot him.
Speaker 9 (42:43):
I shot him.
Speaker 10 (42:44):
Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to
give the actual shooter time to get away. We have
learned that he is someone who has previously caused trouble
in the area, and he's now charged with child pornography.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
That just tribled off your tongue. Did you a child pornogracy?
Speaker 9 (43:03):
Correct?
Speaker 10 (43:03):
After he was taken into custody right after this shooting.
Days later, he has been charged with this crime.
Speaker 13 (43:11):
So, mister Robinson, you have a right to an attorney.
If you cannot afford one, the court can appoint in
turning to represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of
financial status and find that you are indigent. I'm provisually
provisionally appointing a rule a qualified attorney to represent you
on your case, mister Robinson, Along with their filing of
(43:34):
their appearance of counsel, the assigned attorneys must file declarations
with the court that outline their qualifications under Rule eight
and Rule eight C. I'm sorry under Rule eight B
and Rule eight C for council appointment in a case
where death may be a sentencing option.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
As we go to air tonight, the state still building
its case against the alleged Charlie Kirk shooter.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
If you know or think you know.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Anything about the case, regardless of whether you think it
is important or not, please dial eight zero one five
seventy nine fourteen hundred eight one five seventy nine fourteen
hundred or go to Tips dot FBI dot gov. Now
(44:26):
we remember an American hero trooper and Jerry Adamic, Texas
Department Public Safety killed in the line of duty, leaving
behind a grieving wife, Roxanne, and five children. American hero
trooper Jerry Adam ic Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The Charlie Kirk killer suspect death penalty announced.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
This as a.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Family feud emerges over the suspect's male lover. I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Tyler James Ronson Cala one as you made of murder
can two fellow discharged the fire arm causing serious fility injury.
I am finally a notice.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Of intent to see the death tactic because the fat
his belief believed to have target and Charlie Kirk based
on Charlie Urg's political expression and then so knowing the
children were present and.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
We witnessed the second death penalty is the death penalty?
Is the death penalty. They loaded him up. That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
With so many alternative counts, it will be hard for
a jury to find him not guilty.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Listen, I am filing a criminal information Jurny Tyler James Robinson,
age twenty.
Speaker 5 (01:12):
Two with the following crime.
Speaker 6 (01:16):
Cal one hag remated murder a.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Calital events or intentionally we're knowingly causing the death and
Charlie heard under circumstances they created a great.
Speaker 6 (01:28):
Risk of death to others.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Count two fellay discharge of the fighter arm causing serious
fody injury, a first degree.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
FELA legal term. They ain't playing.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
what we're learning in the courtroom. Straight out to Randolph
Rice joining us, former felony prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney,
joining us at Rice law. Randolph Rice charging in the altarative.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I've done it a million times.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
If I got a case and the grand jury had
not indicted in the alternative, I would either a send
it back to the grand jury and represent it myself
to get those alternative counts, or have the judge charge
the jury with the alternative counts. What I mean by
that is, you shoot Jackie, you plan to shoot Jackie.
It's malice, aforethought, it's premeditated murder.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Murder one, So I charge you with murder one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But I'm worried, So then I charged you with voluntary
manslaughter murder two, involuntary manslaughter if I'm desperate. In other words,
there is no way you are walking out of that
courtroom if I have anything to do with it without
a conviction. They loaded him up, explain in a nutshell Rice, nutshell.
Speaker 7 (02:54):
Well, Nancy you did a great job and explain that,
because if you don't get that top count, the most
serious count, you've got the back. But the problem here is,
and there is a problem, is that I think that
they may be reaching on this aggravated murder.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Now.
Speaker 7 (03:07):
They may be using this as leverage to force him
or try to get him to take a plead. But
the aggravating circumstances at this point I think are very very.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sough, head blowing off.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
Are you.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
They're reaching? Are you serious?
Speaker 9 (03:26):
This guy?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
According to the state, this guy steaks out in the place,
and I believe they're going to end up with video
showing that was not his first trip to the top
of that roof. He stakes it out, he plans it
in advance, even a wardrobe change. A lot of forethought
goes into this. He targets someone because of their freedom
(03:47):
of speech. I don't care if you agree with Kirk
or disagree with Kirk. I really couldn't care less doesn't matter.
He targeted him for his freedom of speech. And that
is a major, major aggravating circumstances, akin to shooting a judge,
or shooting a political figure like the president or the
(04:09):
vice president, or shooting a prosecutor or shooting a cop.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You go after them.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Because of what they represent that you don't like, and
you actually, you know what, you really know how to kick.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It off wrong, don't you. I bet you're a super
downer at a party.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You come in to crime stories and blurt out the
state is reaching what.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Could be more aggravating, well, Mancy.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
The problem is is that they're trying to rely on
the fact that there were children president or that the
crime could have hurt somebody else, and again, that seems
to be a physical shrimp creature.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Show him the crowd here there you go.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Look, look at that he shot from a little under
two hundred yards away, and you're saying nobody else was
in danger.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Rice, look at your monitor.
Speaker 7 (04:59):
No body else is in danger in this situation, at
least from Again, I'm arguing the defense here, and I
think that the state has a good argument. But in
the defense's argument, they're going to say this was a
single bullet that had a single target that ultimately killed
Charlie Kirk, and it didn't endanger the other people in
the crowd. And that's where there may be a problem
for the prosecutor's office in trying to seek the charge
(05:22):
that seeks the death pilting.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay, so Randolph, you come in, you plot down in
the studio, and you first say the state is reaching.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
They can't prove it. Did I not hear? You just
say the state has a good argument. So which one
is it? Does the state have a good argument? I
say they do?
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Or are they overreaching? You know that's a very sad
second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense
attorney that doesn't say, in a murder case, you're overreaching?
Speaker 7 (05:49):
Oh no, every single case. Every defense attorney says that
you're overreaching. I do it in all the cases that
I defend, because that's their job. Their job is to
challenge the prosecution to say did you try to get
too much?
Speaker 8 (06:00):
Here?
Speaker 7 (06:01):
And again, this is a tactic that the prosecutortion is
using to try to get the defendant to take a
police saying, hey, look, did you actually.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Say the P word? Plea? You think there's going to
be a plea?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
You think they're going to pull a coburger with the
whole world watching them. You don't think they're going to
take this to trial and seek the death penalty, whether
they get it or not.
Speaker 7 (06:21):
I thought Coburger was going to go to trial, and
look what happened there. I think that this is something
they're trying to push him into, is to take a place.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay, you know what, that's the first thing you've said
so far to me, Randolph, Rice, that makes any sense.
But actually, actually, now that I think about it, you're
absolutely correct. The number of counts could be a tactic
to make the defendant plea guilty, because there seems to
be no way out with all these alternative counts.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I don't see it happening though. I don't see a
plea going down in this case.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
But again, you're right, we didn't see one coming in
Coburger either.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
But put them up one more time, Randolph. Guys, let
me to mind you. Rice is a.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Former very successful felony prosecutor. He's won a lot of cases.
Now he is a criminal defense attorney, civil attorney. So, Randolph,
the aggravating circumstance you mentioned was just that other people
were endangered. It's not like you shoot Jackie in the
studio and it's just the two of you. This is
a shooting with a throng of people, thousands of people.
(07:24):
If that bullet had gone the wrong way if there
had been a gust of wind, who knows. But they
included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred in the
presence of children. Now, that is aggravating a violent felony
that occurs in the presence of children. How are you
going to get out of that, Randolph Rice.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
Bringing jow shild in there that actually saw the murder.
They're going to have to prove that in court that
a child actually saw it, was affected by it, and
therefore that's the aggravating circumstance. And so I don't know
if they've got that right now. You know, it just
might be tough for them on that account.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
You're right, that's an element of proof. They will have
to bring in a child witness to prove it. Guys,
a lot has happened since these charges were announced formally
in court. Now what that was was an arrayment, an
arrangment where the defendant is brought in because you cannot
stay behind bars over seventy two hours without being told
(08:21):
what you're charged with by typically a magistrate. I believe
this is going to beat the trial judge from here out.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
But we're also.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Learning not just the charges but how the murder went down.
Listen at approximately.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Eleven to fifty one am. The suspect of her campus
from the north. You seen wearing a lave shirt with
an American flag in the center, a darter baseball gut,
and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, the suspect keeps his
head down and rarely raises his head enough to get
a clear image of his face as he proceeds across
(09:00):
the campus. He's seen walking with.
Speaker 8 (09:02):
An unusual day.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
The suspect was with very.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Little vandy in his right leg, consistent with a rifle
to be hidden in these pants.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Joining us now, Harmonia on Rodriguez, she if you as
reporter Daily Mail, Harmonia, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So that explains.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Hey, let's see that TMC video we have of him walking,
because I can see what the prosecution is talking about,
especially if they play this in promo.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Harmonia, explain what they're talking.
Speaker 10 (09:34):
About, right, So, officials gave us more insight about the
hours before this shooting last week. As we can see
on the screen, the suspect was seen arriving on campus
about four hours before the shooting, and there he is limping.
Speaker 9 (09:48):
Now, this made the public wonder why this person was limping?
Do they have a limp?
Speaker 10 (09:53):
Yesterday we learned that actually he had hidden the rifle
that he used in one of his pant legs, and
that's why he's limping the way we see him on screen.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Chris mcdonnald joining US director Coldcase's Foundation Former Homicide to
take a start of the interview room on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Who has gone to this scene, to the home, to.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
The shooting scene, through the neighborhood. You know that's pretty bold,
is he?
Speaker 8 (10:23):
Is?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
He not heard of ring doorbell cams because they catch
him going door to door to door to door.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
They've got almost an uninterrupted path of him walking.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Through the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And don't tell me mcdonaughhe didn't case this out, Like
where am I going to park? How am I going
to get away? This has been at least at least
days in the making.
Speaker 11 (10:44):
Absolutely Nancy, And what I've learned is she did have
that vehicle up there and it was parked about a
mile away from the crime chine, and he walked in
to the crime chine to casehit out initially before the
situation went down, and then later. I've also learned that
(11:05):
he turned his phone off for a short period of
time and then turned it back on after the homicide.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Chris McDonough speaking of walking through the neighborhood to his
the vehicle.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Where did he park his muscle car?
Speaker 11 (11:17):
The muscle card Nancy was parked approximately a mile away
at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Joe Scott Morgan joining me. Professor Forensis jacksonvill State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
of a hit new podcast series, Bodybags.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
With Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Joe Scott really did he pull a coburger slash morphew
where they both think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their
phone off.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
There it's like my teen children. They're seventeen, believe it
or not.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
The phone is constantly on, even right down to zero
one percent. Okay, they will not turn it off even
when they charge it. See that is a pattern or practice.
So when you just coincidentally turn your phone off at
the time of the incident, I mean, think about it,
Jo Scott.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
If it weren't for the murder.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
The mo modus operandi method of operation would be laughable
because you see the pings leading up to a certain
spot and then poof the phone goes off, the murder occurs,
then poof, the phone goes back on, and you see
the return back to your home nest.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
Right, It's just yeah, yeah, you're right, and welcome to
the real world here, because these phones are the modern
crime scene. Because it seems like every case that we cover,
you know, I think most famously to this point Coburger's case,
you go to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken
a lot, spoken about quite a bit in that particular case.
(12:53):
We have established patterns, why are you going to turn
it off at this particular time? And look, the case
is not proven simply based on that, but it's another
element that can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
This video from our friends I've wat the Independent speaking
of the rifle. Listen.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
The rifle, ammunition, rounds, and towel were sent for forensic processing.
DNA consistent that Robin Knock was a defendant was found
on the trigger, other parts of the rifle, the fire cartridge, casing,
two of the three how to fire cartridges, and the towel.
(13:32):
Law enforcement was unable to immediately locate the shooter, so
the published photos of the shooter from the UBIU surveillance
cameras and asked for the public's help to identify it. Meanwhile,
law enforcement continued to trying to identify the shooter.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Through other means, joining us.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Doctor Bethany Marshall now Psychoalysis out of the LA jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
She is the author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
You can see her now on peacock and she said,
doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Before you launch into the whole furry.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Connection, I want to hear your thoughts on a guy
that comes from a loving home, very loving. We've heard Wow,
he was afraid to tell his parents he was dating
another guy that was transitioning. The family knew, and I'm
going to tell you about that in just a moment.
So he comes from a very loving home. He was smart.
(14:32):
Doctor Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at the top one
percent of I believe it was this act exam almost
forty thousand dollars of scholarship.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Goes to college, doesn't like it, leaves college, comes out,
pursues Listen.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
To this thirty two thousand dollars. This scholarship is available
for forty years or a semesters.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I mean they're supportive, they love it.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
My bottom line here is what went wrong, And I'm
not talking about his relationship with a guy. That's irrelevant,
doesn't matter. Some people say right, some people say wrong,
don't care. But what I'm talking about, Bethany, is how
do you go from a loving home when the parent's
(15:20):
like you're the apple of their eye to becoming a
psycho shooter?
Speaker 12 (15:25):
Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we
call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the thirty two thousand
dollars scholarship, but then he drops out of college and
studies to become an electrician. And what that tells me,
if he were my patient, is that he cannot tolerate
being with his peers. He doesn't feel intact or good
(15:48):
enough about himself. He doesn't have a strong ego. So
the risk factor for shooters is that they often feel
insulted by society. They feel that they are in a
one down position, that everybody's bullying them, everybody's acting like
they're better than them, and they hold on to every
little grudge until they have some kind of a profound
(16:10):
loss in their life, and in this case it may
have been dropping out of college, and they become even angrier.
And when they decide to shoot, they don't just walk
through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on the top of
a building. Have you noticed that about school shooters? I mean,
one we covered many years ago was a guy who
stood at the top of a staircase after having locked
(16:31):
all the doors so the students wouldn't get out. We
call it like the fish in a barrel kind of
moo of the shooting. So that's the reversing of the
feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.
He's like the big man on campus, literally whizzing bullets
over children and families' heads, talking about getting an erection
(16:51):
which is inscribed on the bullet, and feeling powerful for
the first.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Time in his life.
Speaker 12 (16:57):
So he's trying to reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless,
and at the bottom of society.
Speaker 7 (17:02):
To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah City University.
Speaker 11 (17:06):
The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 7 (17:10):
This scholarship is available for forty years or a semesters.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
You see are in a live shirt with a Murgan
flag in the center, a data baseball down in large sunglasses.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
He arrived on campus in different clothing, change into what
we see in those surveillance images, then changed back into
the other outfit.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
He shoots, and then he's off the buildings in four days.
Then we see him limping as he's walking through.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
He had a conscious objective formal charges read in open court,
but I'm more into those charges in my mind were predictable,
although the state did get creative in the aggravating.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Circumstances that they charged.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's not just murder, it's aggravated murder with quote aggravating
circumstances and the significance of that.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
In order to see the death penalty, you have.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
To include aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,
there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice
joining us vetteran trial lawyer, they vary, but in every
jurisdiction across our country, you have to have aggravating circumstances
to seek the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
In Coburger, it was mass murder more than one body.
It's mass murder.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Here explain the significance of them putting in the indictment,
in the charges, the aggravating circumstances, they have to be proved,
just like every element of the crime.
Speaker 7 (18:44):
Nanth You're exactly right. You've got to prove every single
element because what happens is the jurors are going to
get a jury instruction at some point in time, and
it's going to have all these different elements and it's
going to say unless you find beyond a reasonable doubt
that every single element has been met, then you can't
find them guilty of that charge. And so there is
the issue with does the state meet these aggravating circumstances
(19:09):
that gets them to the conviction, that gets them to
the death penalty.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So, for instance, in every prosecution, and we'll just go
with murdersys or that's what we're talking about tonight, you
have to prove who is the victim, that the indictment
has the victim correct, You have to prove the jurisdiction.
You have to prove malice of forethought, even if it's
malicet lasts for a moment, the between twinkling of an instant,
(19:35):
the blink of an eye qualifies as time to prove intent.
But when you seek the death penalty, you have to
include these aggravating circumstances and then they become an element
of proof. You have to prove them each element beyond
a reasonable doubt. Like you said earlier, Correctly, they may
(19:57):
have to bring in a child to prove a child
was in harm's way. So we'll see how the state's
going to prove it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Another thing we are learning about how the defendant was recognized. Listen.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
On September eleven, five, the day after the shooting, Robinson's
mother saw the photo and the shooter in the news
and data. Shooter looked like for a seven Robinson's father
called hers and asked him where he was. He said
(20:45):
he was at home sick, and then he had also
been at home home second on September.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Tenth, hold on just a moment, her money Rodriguez joining
US Daily Mail.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
He said he was home sick. What did he add?
The dog ate my homework. I'm sick. That's weak.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
These were details that I mean, we're really harrowing if
you imagine what these parents went through. As we just
saw official saying apparently the day after the shooting, this
mother looks at the images released by the FBI as
they were hunting this person down.
Speaker 9 (21:16):
She thinks it looks like her son.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Calls him.
Speaker 9 (21:19):
He says he's at home sick for the second day
in a row.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, you know what, Joscott Morgan, what about it?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball
hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know
it's them.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
Of course you would, Yeah, all of us would. There's
no way that you're not going to recognize your child.
I think the big thing here, you know, probably for
this mother, and this is more of a doctor Bethany issue,
But what do you do with that information? You know,
how does it because you've been with him his entire life,
so you know, again she's going to call him up.
Speaker 7 (21:55):
She wants to confirm it.
Speaker 6 (21:56):
You know, do I believe my lying eyes? And it
turns out that her we're not lying in this case?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
And answer you know what, You're right, doctor Bethany Marshall.
How will this affect the parents going forward knowing.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
They turned their son in?
Speaker 12 (22:12):
You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on
the break and that sound where he has the thirty
two thousand dollars scholarship. Do you notice that his affect
is very flat. He doesn't seem excited, So it's the
mother that goes oooh, and then he kind of mimics
the woo in a less sharp tone or less elevated tone.
(22:32):
So I'm going to guess that this mother has a
long history of trying to pump her son up to
act normal in society. So when she sees this image
of him, I don't think is as much of a
shock as you and I might think.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I would guess.
Speaker 12 (22:48):
You know how parents know their children that they've always
known something is wrong, and they're always waiting for the
other shoe to drop. She sees the image, it's confirmed,
she calls dad, Reality meets internal fearfulness, and now she's
the one who has to turn him in. Maternal guilt, Nancy.
(23:09):
She's going to feel maternal guilt not only that she
turned him in, but that she gave birth to somebody
who could have done this, and she'll blame herself for
having raised him in the wrong way. Although we know
these kinds of disorders are very biologically based, it is
not the parent's fault.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Okay, I understood about fifty percent of what you said. Okay.
I think what you said is.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
The mother has likely spent her whole life trying to
present to the world and to herself and her son.
Speaker 9 (23:42):
Is normal.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
And I don't mean that he's mentally insane, because he
clearly knew what he did was wrong. He planned it,
he concealed it, and he covered it up afterwards as
evidence of guilty conscience.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
He knew it was wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But mom compensating, saying, Look, he won a scholarship, He's
so smart. Look this he, you know, is a boy scout.
Look he sings in the choir. He's awesome, he cuts
the grass. I love him, He's wonderful, all the while
knowing something is off. That's a lifetime of compensating. Dr Bethany.
Speaker 12 (24:14):
Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And I
obviously I haven't met this guy. I don't know if
he's associate path, but let's see. Theoretically, if he was,
the mother would likely have noticed many things.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Look, look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows,
and I always wonder I look at people with like
a six bedroom home worth over a half a million dollars.
They're all going to college, they have great jobs.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
What's not to be happy about. I don't get it,
Dr Bethany. Maybe I've set the standard too low.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
But you know, I got a family, I've got a home,
I've got a job for right now, we're all healthy.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm on top of the world.
Speaker 12 (24:58):
I don't get it, Bethany, But we know that this
guy was supremely unhappy. He was so unhappy he couldn't
even follow through with a scholarship, so unhappy that he
can't even smile when he gets the scholarship. Nancy, this
has nothing to do with his upbringing or his family.
I can say that fairly confidently, even without knowing them.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
This type of.
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Disorder is what we call psycho biological, meaning, to break
it down, there's something wrong with his brain. If you
did a brain scan, you would probably see that there's
a there's a quieting in the part of the brain
that's responsible for empathy. You might even see like a
coburger syndrome of bullying other people and wanting to be
(25:41):
in a one up position.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
No, no, no, I'm not going to let you go
down the Aaron Hernandez route where they claim the defense climbs.
He kills so murdered so many people because there was
something wrong with his brain. When he function completely normally
and excelled. It was a multi millionaire blew it.
Speaker 12 (26:05):
No no, no, But as he does like going to
be on defense, this guy was not functioning normally. He
was on top of that building sweating, depositing all this DNA.
In the text we read that he wants to take
the secret with him till old age, so.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
He actually thinks he's going to get away with this.
That is something seriously wrong with rise. Please get her
back in the middle of the road and out of
the waves.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room
and they're not going to get caught.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
They all think that sure, it's not special.
Speaker 7 (26:40):
Yeah, that's why it's been proven that definitely doesn't work,
because it's not a to term for people to not
commit crimes because they don't think about I'm ever going
to get caught, so their final to worry about getting
shot at a firing squad.
Speaker 13 (26:53):
Mister Robinson, I also wish to inform you of your
rights against self incrimination anything that you say in court
today could be used against you, and we want to
protect your constitutional rights. Mister Robinson. At this time you
will remain in custody without bail.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Robinson's mother expressed a concern to her husband that the
suspect shoot low life Robinson. Robinson's father a group. Robinson's
father explained that over the last year or so, Robinson
had become more political and had started to lean more
to the left.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
As if somehow being left wing means that you're gonna
gun somebody down at long range. I think the significance
of the mom saying the allegedclator had become more political
and left leaning was it was a departure from the family.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Values and what he had been his whole life up
until that point.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Now, we heard last night that a relative of the
roommate blames the roommate for radicalizing the defendant. But the
reality is is it doesn't matter who persuaded him. It
doesn't matter. He did this shooting of his own volition.
(28:17):
Many people have wondered did his parents know of his
relationship with his roommate.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes, they did.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Listen, she said that Robinson began and day in his roommate,
a biological mal whose present transitioning generous. This resulted in
several discussions with family in person, but especially between Robinson
and his father, who had very different political views. In
(28:45):
one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie Curry
would be holding an event and you need you, which
Robinson said was a stud ataman for the advantage Robin.
She's heard of spreading the page.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I'm not quite sure how a murder of a loving
father of two, a husband has turned into an argument
about furries and trans Sidney, So I'm joining me, crime stories,
investigative reporter.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
None of that matters. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,
if he was by, if he was trans. None of
that bears on the elements of proving a murder case.
How did that take center?
Speaker 8 (29:36):
Stave si Well some interesting bullet engraevings, and we're learning
more about those. So at first we maybe thought that
this was a reference that Robinson was a furry, was
part of one of these counter culture groups. But it
seems like now based on his text to his boyfriend,
(29:59):
that Robinson was just making a giant joke. So his
references to the furry group notices bulge Uwu ooh wu.
It was just a joke and it didn't mean anything.
So that's why this took such a big part of
this was we thought that he was making some kind
(30:21):
of statement with these bullet inscriptions.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just
a joke? Sydney Summer.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate, Sydney.
The engravings that you are suggesting are just a joke.
We're on the bullets used to murder an innocent person.
So I don't know who's claiming you know that's a joke.
Speaker 14 (30:48):
Listen, remember how I was engraving bullets. The messages are
mostly a big meme. If I see notices bulge uwu
on Fox News, I might have a stroke.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
All right, I'm going to have to leave it. That
really sucks.
Speaker 14 (31:06):
Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun does just fine.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 14 (31:11):
I think that was a two thousand dollars scope. Delete
this exchange.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
So this is an exchange that the legis shooter, the
Kirk shooter is having with the romantic partner, as the
roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving
the bullets? Whoa, whoa Wait a minute, number one, what
(31:36):
psycho engraves the bullets? I guess this guy in Luigia MANGIONI.
But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was
there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Hello, accomplice codefendant.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
The problem, Nancy, They need that roommate in their case
because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk
killer Kirk shooter to those text messages.
Speaker 7 (32:02):
They need to keep that roommate, that love interest happy.
They need to keep them close because that's going to
be probably one of their first witnesses.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So I hear what you're saying, Randolph, the two are
not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
You can get his testimony and charge him as an
accomplished murder at the same time. In fact, m let
me guess, does your wife do all the cooking in
the home.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer? I would let
the roommate have a few months behind.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Bars to see if that jogs his recollection, so he
can be a co defendant and a witness at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
What about that thought he can.
Speaker 7 (32:46):
But remember, you've got to put this in front of
a jury. And how does the jury see that? Because
under your scenario, if you put him in jail and
all of a sudden, the defense train says, hey, you've
been sitting in jail. The prosecutor puts you there, so
you feel you're forced to tell his story. That doesn't
look good in front of the jury.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
No, no, no, you can argue that till you're blue
in the face. Randolph Rice.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
The fact that he would be arrested as a co defendant,
and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty in
a court of law. That said, of course, the code
defendant goes to jail. That's not unique. That said, what
do you make of that text? My original question before
you went off with your pity party about the roommate
(33:34):
going to jail, That shows me that he was there.
The roommate was there and would recall the defendant engraving bullets.
And don't you imagine me, go, Hi, Tyler Robinson, why
are you engraving bullets?
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I would so are you telling me now he had
no idea what was happening?
Speaker 7 (33:54):
No, I think you're right. He did have a knowledge
of what was going on, and I think that there's
a potential that the roommates charge, and you're exactly right
on that. I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.
But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think
you certainly had that ability to charge them with knowing
what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes can you
charge them what happened after? And then the text messages
(34:15):
that becomes another sort of sticky, sticky situation.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,
Chris McDonough to actually engrave a bullet. It sounds like
trying to thread three needles at once. How do you
engrave a bullet? Well, there's a couple of ways of
doing it, Nancy. You can use, you know, a handheld engraver.
But let's also take a hard look at the messaging
(34:39):
here as right, you just happened to have a hand
held engraver in your tool pocket.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Who would in your hand held engraver?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Step back and punt. You have anything else for me, Yeah,
you can.
Speaker 11 (34:53):
You can buy that really simple at home depot. But
also recognize that he says most mostly the FN messages
were mostly a big mean I e. There's another messaging
in the showcasing or the the cartridges that were recovered.
They only recovered the well. They didn't find any showcasing
(35:16):
on the on the roof, so that means a it
was either left in the bolt of the of the weapon,
and then the three in the magazine show. The fact
that he was engraving a message on those cartridges tells
us there's a bigger story.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Jess gott Morgan.
This is why we discussed cases before we take them
in front of the jury. As I'm sitting here, Jackie
says she's got a handheld home engraver. You know, the
things you learn about people in a dark studio. But
since McDonough dodged the question, if you don't happen to
(36:03):
be one of those people that have a home hand engraver,
then how would you do it with a knife?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
How do you do that? And it's got to be
legible because these were easily read.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact
this struck me from the beginning, you know, because we've
had a couple If you remember the Minneapolis shooting at
mass a few weeks ago that individual wrote these kind
of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that was
with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,
(36:36):
you have to get something that is you know, I
think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the Morgue, we use
what referred to as diamond engravers to mark the basis
of bullets, and this works on a metallic surface as well.
You have electrical engravers. I don't know if he went
that far.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
And the problem is, wait, wait, I was about to
mock you about the diamond engraver, but wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Didn't he work as an.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Electrician nor as an electric electricians Well.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
Yeah, that tool he very well might, or he could
have some semblance of that.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
That would be.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
What you have to have is a metallic body that
will mark on brass, because this is brass. That's one
of the softest metals that's out there, and people doing grave,
you know, soldiers have been doing it for years and years.
I wonder where you got this idea from. But you
know what, I'm more interested in, Nancy, not just the engraving.
I'm fascinated by the fact that this guy, according to
(37:34):
the pressor not only left engravings to mark these rounds,
but he also left his DNA on specific components within
the weapon, even the trigger. Nancy, this guy's leaving signatures everywhere.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
When you say within the weapon that you're right, where
did authorities find DNA?
Speaker 1 (37:55):
And they found a lot of it.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the
trigger housing, and I say housing actually on the surface
of the trigger, so that's probably going to be touched
DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, this weapon has
what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like
the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have
to feed it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to
(38:18):
take your thumb and press these rounds into that in
dwelling magazine. So any of those surfaces around there where
you're trying to leverage this thing, even on the surface
of the bolt, the handle of the bolt, any of
these areas you can deposit DNA. And let's face it,
he had to sing wrapped in a towel. He's got
(38:39):
to sing in kind of a pristine condition he's left
it in. So you know, they had a field day
when they got their hands on the sing in the lab.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
Police kariny rob in sudden roommate a file one of
your gull now was involving a romantic relationship with Robinson.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
The roommate all police that the roommate.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Received that such for a while, and I said about
the shooting, and he did provide those messages to police.
Speaker 14 (39:07):
I can get close to it, but there's a squad
car parked right by it. I think they already swept
that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm
wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon
as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my
old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.
I don't even know if it had a serial number,
but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.
(39:30):
I had to leave it in a bush where I
changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring
it with I might have to abandon it and hope
they don't find Prince. How though, will I explain losing
it to my old man.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I think he needs to get his priorities straight. He's
worried about his dad being mad he lost the Grandpa's gun.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
What about the death penalty? That what is he thinking?
Doctor Bethanny mar And.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Did you notice this is a recrey of all of
the texts the alleged slator sends to the room. If
you notice roommates not answering, He's like, what, But the
guy's worried about losing Rampa's.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Gun, Nancy.
Speaker 12 (40:17):
I'd love to talk about the idea that he thinks
that what's on the bullets are a meme. A meme
is a joke, so he's already minimizing the severity of
the alleged crime. A meme is something that goes viral
and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy of being famous,
like being some kind of a hero. The reference to
(40:41):
the bulge, I take all of this seriously.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
None of it is a joke.
Speaker 12 (40:45):
The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.
If he were my patient, I would ask him what
is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet
over a crowd of family and children. Is it that
sadism is exciting? Having power over people as exciting. I'd
(41:07):
want to try to get to the root of that,
to understand this guy's mind.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
You know what, There's so much happening in this case.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Remember the old guy at the get go that claims
he was responsible for the shaving.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I did it. I did it, raising both hands now.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Saying that he was just trying to give the real
shooter a chance to get away. Okay, listen to what
the alleged shater says about that.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I thought they caught the person.
Speaker 14 (41:34):
No, they grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone
in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle
from my drop points shortly after, but most of that
side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough
to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Why why did I do it?
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (41:51):
I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be
negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,
I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't
seen anything about them finding it.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
How long have you been planning this?
Speaker 14 (42:06):
A bit over a week, I believe.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
So much for the insanity defense, he had this thing
planned out cold. But my point is George Zen, the
one that threw investigators off at the beginning, claiming he
did it. He was arrested. Now everybody's trashing the FBI
director for arresting him.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
He said he did it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Well, there's a sad sack right there. Okay, bombshell, Harmonia Rodriguez.
George Zen has caught a few charges himself, hasn't he.
Speaker 9 (42:35):
Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.
Speaker 10 (42:38):
As Hugh said, right after the shooting, this man was
film saying I shot him.
Speaker 9 (42:43):
I shot him.
Speaker 10 (42:44):
Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to
give the actual shooter time to get away. We have
learned that he is someone who has previously caused trouble
in the area, and he's now charged with child pornography.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
That just tribled off your tongue. Did you a child pornogracy?
Speaker 9 (43:03):
Correct?
Speaker 10 (43:03):
After he was taken into custody right after this shooting.
Days later, he has been charged with this crime.
Speaker 13 (43:11):
So, mister Robinson, you have a right to an attorney.
If you cannot afford one, the court can appoint in
turning to represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of
financial status and find that you are indigent. I'm provisually
provisionally appointing a rule a qualified attorney to represent you
on your case, mister Robinson, Along with their filing of
(43:34):
their appearance of counsel, the assigned attorneys must file declarations
with the court that outline their qualifications under Rule eight
and Rule eight C. I'm sorry under Rule eight B
and Rule eight C for council appointment in a case
where death may be a sentencing option.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
As we go to air tonight, the state still building
its case against the alleged Charlie Kirk shooter.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
If you know or think you know.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Anything about the case, regardless of whether you think it
is important or not, please dial eight zero one five
seventy nine fourteen hundred eight one five seventy nine fourteen
hundred or go to Tips dot FBI dot gov. Now
(44:26):
we remember an American hero trooper and Jerry Adamic, Texas
Department Public Safety killed in the line of duty, leaving
behind a grieving wife, Roxanne, and five children. American hero
trooper Jerry Adam ic Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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