September 30, 2025 • 46 mins
Tyler Robinson's appearance in court was via video from the Utah County Jail, not in person.
Still, Robinson did not show his face during the proceeding.Robinson’s new defense attorney, Kathryn Nester, has requested a preliminary hearing.
In the meantime, social media platforms are swarming with theories of how Charlie Kirk died.
Many claim that Robinson is innocent. Even conservative influencer Candace Owens claims a source close to the Robinson family tells her they believe Robinson is being framed.
Now, Utah County prepares for a high-profile trial expected to cost taxpayers a million dollars.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Skye Lazaro - State and Federal Criminal Defense Attorney / Law Firm: Ray, Quinney & Nebeker; Facebook: SkyeBeth, Instagram: SkyeBeth1
- Allison Paganelli - Forensic Psychology Expert
- Chris McDonough - Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, worked over 300 Homicides in 25-year career, Trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force; & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room"
- Traci Brown - Body Language Expert and Author: “How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft;" X: @Tracibrown37
- Dr. Priya Banerjee - Board-Certified Forensic Pathologist and Anatomic Pathologist, Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting
- Germania Rodriguez - Chief US Reporter, DailyMail.com
- Sydney Sumner - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the Charlie Kurrent shooting suspects,
million dollar defense and.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We're paying for it.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
This as the defendant claims no one was in danger, really,
his family insisting he's never set foot on the campus
anyway and that it's not him.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Caught on video. Uh okay, who should I believe you are?
My lying eyes?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Does it all boil down to this confessions, DNA and
Grandpa's rifle? The evidence stacking up? I mean, is he Grace?
This is Crime Stories. I'm going to thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
It's about two minutes in when the shot was fired.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
All witnesses are reporting that Polly heard was a single
shot that was fired and he reached out to his.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Neck and blood was starting the gutshot of his.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Neck and it hit him in the coroner at art
and that caused a bleedout almost immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
The Charlie Kirk shooting suspect court appearance yesterday, he did.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Not show his face.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
This as we hear his roommate, his romantic partner, apparently
laying low even in a safe house. You know, Charlie
Kirk didn't have that opportunity, did he.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
This as the.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Suspect's family also laying low, But tonight we are learning
some family members insisting what he's never set foot on
the campus before. Okay, I guess all the cameras are lying,
So what does that mean it's not him we.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
See on the video.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So much happening straight out to Sidney Sumner Crime Stories
investigative reporter. How is how are certain family members claiming
that he the suspect, never has been on that campus?
Speaker 6 (01:59):
How?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What's that happening?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Am I supposed to ignore what he said in the
text to his romantic partner roommate?
Speaker 6 (02:06):
According to Kandace Owens, you are supposed to ignore those
texts because they were offered by SBI agents and not
Tyler Robinson to land that was stopping.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Sorry, I'm sorry, my earpace must not be working correctly
because I've thought for sure, Sydney Summer, I heard you.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Say that there is a theory that all the.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Text that the alleged shooter sent his romantic partner roommate
were actually written by the FBI.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Did you say that? I didn't.
Speaker 6 (02:37):
Candace Owens did on her streams yesterday afternoon, so she
took the steps further. We've already heard rumors that gen
z ers are saying, you know, I've never heard a
twenty two year old talk like that over text message.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
This is really weird.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
And she came out and made that accusation yesterday that
these text messages are part of an SBI cover up
and an SBI agent without a modicum of intelligence wrote
those text messages.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, So the FBI agent was in on the whole thing,
that it was the grandpa's long gun and he couldn't
he the legislator couldn't retrieve it and was caught on
cam and a dairy queen waiting to go back into
the trees and bushes.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
To get his gun. So the FBI agent that this.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Conservative influencer is talking about, what is clairvoyant he was
in on the whole thing, or what did he plant
the gun to this.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
From canvas Owens Sydney helped me out. What is she claiming?
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Well, Nancy, so they're claiming Owens is claiming that these
text messages include every single detail that police had tracking
Tyler Robinson up until the point that he was arrested.
So we're hearing reports now from law enforcement sources that
Robinson actually had a run in with police near UVU
(04:04):
campus the evening after the shooting, and they believe he
was trying to make a move to retrieve that rifle. Now,
law enforcements already had the rifle in their possession, They already.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Knew what model it was.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
They already knew that it had a big two thousand
dollars scope on it. So Owens is pointing out that
these text messages include every single detail of the planning
of the shooting, of the rifle that was used in
the shooting, and that feels a little bit suspicious. She
finds that odd that this thirty start right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So now here we go.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The floodgates are open. I haven't even gotten to the
hearing that went down yesterday.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And what if anything it means to the defense and
the state.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
We are bombarded by these insane theories that the FBI
secretly wrote all the texts from Robinson, the alleged shooter,
to his roommate, his romantic partner, Lance Twigs, Okay Sky,
lazarro joining me, state and federal criminal defense attorney with
(05:16):
Ray Quinny and Kniebecker Sky just take off your defense
hat one moment, if that's possible. This is fodder for
the defense. It's complete fodder. Now, any defense attorney in
their right mind would likely not claim that the texts
were sent by the FBI because there's just too much
(05:39):
knowledge in those texts that nobody else would know all
those details other than the sender.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But that said, this is muddying the water for the state.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
All these conspiracy theories have gone wild, and basically the
defense can sit back at Pickin's shoes, which crazy Zany
conspiracy theory they're going to present to the jury have
to come up with a trial strategy. The online sleuths
are doing it for them.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You know, in this case, this is the best thing that.
Speaker 7 (06:10):
Can happen, because if you've got a jury pool is
fighting with each other about conspiracy theories or this happened
or this didn't happen. I mean, that's the best thing
that can happen.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
To these I want to actually see her face, Sky
lazarro has won a lot of cases, but I want
to see her face. Did you just say, with apparently
a straight face, that the defense could blame the government
for Charlie Kirk's assassination.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
No, no, no, no, no, no, what a.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
FBI agent really did it.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
No defense attorney is going to do that. That's not
going to happen. It's not going to happen in this case. Well,
my point was is when you have a jury pool,
who's out there, who's getting all of this information and
hearing this from different platforms? And I think you know,
Candae said millions of viewers yesterday, people believe that stuff.
(07:05):
And if you have, if you have a jury pool
that is divided on whether or not the government had
a hand in this or covered it up or something else,
I mean, that's that's the grounds for jury or nullification.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Somewhere along the.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Way, Chris McDonough, Chris mcdonaugh helped me.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Look, i know that some of these wild claims which
were about to hear are zany. But when I'm sitting
in the prosecutor's chair and I've got Charlie Kirk's widow
sitting behind me.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Waiting for me to somehow wave.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
A magic wand and make it all turn out right,
and you are confronted with theories like which being thrown
out right now, polluting the jury pool, it's overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, I'm I'm angry. I am angry.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
All they make believe and pretend theories that are out
there as to who assassinated Charlie Kirk in cold blood.
Now a rogue FBI agent did it. It's you can't
laugh it off, Chris, as tempting as it is. McDonough
is a former homicide investigator. He worked vice, He's worked
(08:26):
every angle for the state. He's now the star of
the interview room on YouTube, director of the Cold Case Foundation, Chris.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
This is not a joke. This is real. You get
one nut Jr. Look look at O. J. Simpson.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Really, people really believe the police could hold it together
and create a conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's totallys same thing here.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yeah, absolutely, Nan Cham. I mean and you know more
than anybody being in that courtroom to hear craziness like this,
I mean, this is just irresponsible right now. I mean
the fact that you have this allegation that you know,
some other dude i e. Law enforcement, the government, whoever
you know, had set this shit up and it's you know,
(09:16):
some gigantic conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Exigent him up.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
What kid are you talking about, well, Rob talking about
is there somehow a middle school shooter?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I mean, I don't know what kid are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
You know we're talking about Tyler Robinson, right, I mean,
and by the way I interviewed the younger kid, Well, well,
I agree with you, but you know he's also not
the smartest tool in the shed, even though he has
an IQ that's extremely high. The fact that he's left
all the evidence behind him and in front of him.
(09:56):
By the way, this I think this is part of
a place somewhere from somebody.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
The fact that the conspiracy theories are going to make
a lot of hay out of what you said just
then about leaving Evan and Ola. They're going to claim it
was planted. And I don't want to hear another word
about he's too dumb to pull it off. This guy
won a forty nearly forty thousand dollars scholarship controller and
please pull that video up, And do I have to
convince McDonough again for Pete to listen.
Speaker 8 (10:23):
To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah si University.
The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
This scholarship is available for forty years or he's Yeah, well,
the state saves a lot of money on that one.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, all that opportunity, all that advantage, and what did
he do?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
What were you saying about the under sheriff.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Well, I interviewed the under sheriff and he confirmed that
everything that is being said online is not true. First
of all, the Tyler Robinson's father was not in law enforcement.
It was his friend and that's still being it out there. Second,
he did turn himself into the jail with a friend
of his who was retired law enforcement. That's not a conspiracy,
(11:09):
that's fact.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Crime stories.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
With Nancy Grace, Chris McDonough's, you know what, you're branching
out into even more conspiracy theories. And normally I would
tastise you for getting off the point, but you're right
another conspiracy theory, and let's take a look at the
source of some of the conspiracy theories.
Speaker 9 (11:37):
Any person with a modicum of intelligence is going to go,
I'm not going to put this down in writing with
every detail.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And apparently whoever offered.
Speaker 9 (11:45):
Those messages likely Fed's, didn't have a modicum of intelligence.
The family says that the photo of the young man
that is coming up the stairs, which was shared at
Blurry Image, is definitively not Tyler Robinson, and when I
put together when I'm being told by Lance's family and
when I'm hearing from the Robinson family through a third party,
(12:09):
I will say that it matches.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It kind of seems like they're agreeing.
Speaker 9 (12:13):
One family's going, Hey, Lance is kind of evil, Why
is he getting Why is he getting cleared?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
The other one's going, Tyler's not this guy.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay, I really don't know where to start with that big, steaming,
stinky crock of BS I just heard that is from
Candae Owens.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Let's just break it down very quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And then maybe we can actually get to the facts,
the real facts, the hard evidence about what is happening now.
First of all, any person with a modicum of intelligence
is going to go I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Not going to put this all down in writing.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Every detail, and whoever authored those messages like the FEDS
don't have a modicum of intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I was a FED for three years before I became
a felony prosecutor in Superior Court, So as a former FED,
I don't appreciate that very much. But that said, I'm
very very curious Street makeout to Sky lazarro joining US
veteran trial lawyer in both the state and federal criminal systems.
(13:15):
That is a really long stretch to claim, Hey, the
defendant would never put so many details in his text.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Byes, Yes they would because they're not that smart. Sky.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Why do you think the federal and the state jails
are so full because they're idiots?
Speaker 7 (13:32):
I wish to to my clients ever wrote anything down,
but that is not the reality.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And also, let's talk about this to Tracy Brown joining us.
You guys know Tracy very well, body language expert and
author of How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
She's body language trainer dot com. Tracy.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Please, when you think that you are texting with your
romantic partner, you say a lot more than you would
say to other people.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Right, I think you do because there's a very deep
trust there.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I would say.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
One of the things that concerned me when I saw
this was the perfect punctuation and capitalization and it didn't
seem age appropriate to me. So either he's so smart
that he's not tuned into his generation, or something else
has taken over.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's very odd. Hut her up.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Just so you know, try I see both of my
twins text NonStop to me, and their punctuation is always perfect.
Really wow, Okay that's really yeah, so reality check. Another
thing too, Alison Paganelli joining US forensic psychologists. Esteemed forensic
psychologists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Alison Paganelli,
(14:52):
thank you for being with us, Alison. When you are
writing someone that you trust and that you love, that
you're romantic with very often, and you lower your guard
and you say things you wouldn't normally say to anybody else,
isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yes? I like that short and sweet. Yes. Another thing
regarding this conspiracy theory that the.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
FBI really wrote the text and not the defendant. The
FBI would have to be clairvoyant in some way to
know all the details about Grandpa's long gun and how
he was trying to go back and retrieve it, and
so much more contained in those texts from Tyler Robinson
to his roommate. Yes, they would be overly involved.
Speaker 10 (15:38):
If this were the conspiracy that Candice Owen says it is,
then that would mean that the FBI was tracking mister Robinson,
knew of weapons, that he had a hold on this
the moment.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Tracking mister Robinson more like setting him up, because they
if the FBI is responsible, then they would have been
responsible for the shooting and for setting it up and
for framing him. I mean, this goes a lot deeper
than thinking a few texts.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So you would have to.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Believe that the FBI was in on this from the
get go. Do you really believe that, because I find
it to be a fantastical farce.
Speaker 10 (16:20):
Do I believe that that's what happened? No, I don't.
To me, it would be far fetched for the FBI
to pick Tyler Robinson out of many, many males and
females who are online talking about various political things. He's
(16:41):
a twenty two year old, allegedly really intelligent, he got
the scholarship.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It would seem to me.
Speaker 10 (16:48):
Yeah, like I said, pretty far fetched for them to
just pick him out and decide, we're going to frame
this guy, and we're going to send all these texts.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
With all the details.
Speaker 10 (16:57):
It's just it would have had to have been pre
planned for a long period of time, and I just
don't think that's a plausible theory.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It's not plausible.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Harmonia Rodriguez now joining US chief US reporter with dailymail
dot Com. Harmonia, thank you for being with US so
you know now that we're hashing out and this is
just one conspiracy theory that the FBI really.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wrote the text.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I haven't even gotten to what happened in court, Harmonia,
Where is this coming from?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
This theory? And another thing I.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Heard Owen's claim is that the families are saying the
defendant is innocent.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Of course they are. They always say that. How often
do you see.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The mother of And by the way, these are this
is the family that convinced him to turn himself in,
all right now claiming yeah, that's not him in the picture.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It's just where's this coming from?
Speaker 11 (18:00):
This case has been completely riddled by conspiracy theories that
have really emerged on social media, particularly on x A lot.
You talked about people saying that the text messages do
not sound how a gen Zer would speak. We saw
a lot of memes being done about this.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, please, Harmonia, have you noticed it? Everybody talking
about how a gen Zer would speak is not a
gen Zer? Okay, so consider the source on that.
Speaker 11 (18:28):
Go ahead, please correct This was all speculation based on
nothing specific. But then we start seeing these same conspiracies
emerge from Candace Own's show. Now it's important to remember
that Canda's owns is not a typical journalist. She claims
that she's been speaking to the family of Tyler Robinson,
who allegedly claims that that's not their son involved. However,
(18:50):
we don't really have evidence about this. She's not saying
which people she speak into. She actually mentioned the clip
that you showed that she's talking to them through a
third person. So a lot of what Kendace owns to
say on her show seems to lead to other of
the conspiracy theories that she has been peddling about Charlie
Kirk and who would have wanted to have him gone
(19:12):
according to her.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know, another issue to Sky lazarro joining as veteran
trial lawyer out of the Utah jurisdiction. Sky, So much
of it is fantastical, but when you seek the twelve
in the box, you don't know what they're really thinking.
I mean, I would try to get as up close
(19:36):
and personal to each juror as I could without getting
reprimanded by the judge, and I mean physically close.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
To them, right up.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
To the jury rail, if I could to look them
in the eye and watch them the way I'm watching
you right now, as they answered each question, and the questions,
you know, after the typical where do you work, how
long have you been there? Or do you have a family,
do you know the defendant? Do you know anybody in
his family? Blah blah blah. I would look right at
(20:06):
them and hold their gaze to see if they looked away,
if they blinked rapidly, if they had mannerisms that suggested
they had to think about their answers, or they concealing something.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You never know skt what they're really thinking.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And we've seen so many jurors recently that have gone
online and investigated the case themselves, which is prohibited during
a trial. You've got to be really careful that one
of these jurors haven't gotten sucked down the conspiracy drain
that's one hundred percent cracked.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
I think our biggest fear is trial lawyers are the
people who really want to be there. You almost want
jerors who don't want to be there because they're probably
less involved in the case. You're absolutely right, it doesn't
matter how much you do in bordy or how close
you get to them. You never know really what those
people are thinking deep down, or if they have uh
(21:05):
any affiliations or gone down these conspiracy theory rat holes
and just want to be a part of this case.
And the other thing is, unless just a question, it's
almost impossible to keep them offline during your trial.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And of course, this is a defense team's fantasy. Is said,
you're our fantasy game that they're playing right now, largely
fueled by sluice. Tonight, we are dealing with the facts
as we know them, and now not he said, she said.
(21:39):
The third cousin twice removed told the gas station attendant this,
and then they called me.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Blah blah blah. But here are just a few of the.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Conspiracy theories that are spinning out right now. And trust me,
believe you me. The defense is writing everyone down.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
Listen, any person with a modicum of intelligence is going
to go, I'm not going to put this down.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
In writing with every detail.
Speaker 9 (22:09):
And apparently whoever offered those messages likely Fed's didn't have
a modicum of intelligence. The family says that the photo
of the young man that is coming up the stairs,
which was shared at Blurry Image, is definitively not Tyler Robinson.
And when I put together, when I'm being told by
Lance's family and when I'm hearing from the.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Robinson family.
Speaker 9 (22:33):
Through a third party, I will say that it matches.
It kind of seems like they're agreeing. One family's going, hey,
Lance is kind of evil. Why is he getting Why
is he getting cleared? And the other one's going, Tyler's
not this guy.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
From Candas Owens.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
This is a father of two and a little girl,
a little boy, wife, ericakhim or Haiti.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
He's a media figure.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
He was magnetic.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Charlie Kirk is one of these people that is a firebrand.
They know he is one of these guys who has
he stood up for what he believes in.
Speaker 12 (23:03):
Candace Owens claims a source close to the Robinson family
believe Robinson is being framed. Has never been to UVU campus.
Robinson's parents know the blurry photos distributed by law enforcement
are not their son. Robinson never confessed to his father,
and he did not write the messages to Lance Twiggs
on September tenth.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Why are you playing that?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I just said We're going to be dealing with facts tonight,
not zany conspiracy theories that are handing over wild ideas
for the defense to pursue in front of a jury. No,
let's go to the courtroom. Listen to what the judge
just said.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
As this case moves forward, mister Robinson's constitutional rights will
be protected at every stage he sits before this court
presumed innocence, and that presumption remains unless and until, gentlemen,
of every offense charged against him is proved beyond a
reasonable doubt. At the same time, and as applicable, victims
(24:09):
are entitled under our Constitution to be treated with fairness,
respect and dignity, free from harassment or abuse. Justice demands
that both of these principles, the rights of the accused
and the rights of victims, be honored without compromise.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
City Center.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We're hearing the judge right there, Judge Torri Graft speaking
talking about being fair not just to the defendant, but
to the victims the state as well. Why did everybody
go berserve when the judge said he was going to
be fair.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I don't get it. What's wrong with that?
Speaker 6 (24:44):
I found nothing wrong with it. I think the judge
made the decision to speak on this issue and speak
on keeping things fair because this is such a charge
case going forward. They really want to protect the defendant,
the victim, the future jury. At this latest hearing. Attendees
(25:06):
who came in person were not allowed to have bags,
They were not allowed to wear any kind of face
covering that could possibly conceal their identity. There are serious
secure security concerns with this upcoming trial, with all of
the hearings up until the trial, and they want to
make sure everyone feels safe and secure in that courtroom,
(25:28):
you know.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
To Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Daily Mail,
I respect the judge because the judge is standing up
to people, the baying mob that is demanding one thing
or all the conspiracy theories shore demanding another thing, and
he is saying he's going to be fair and they
can all go straight to h doublel. Of course, I'm
(25:50):
paraphrasing right there that he is going to do the
right thing. Tell me, Siddy was just talking about the
security measures taken for this is just the hearing and
the defendant didn't even show his face. Profound security measures taken,
explain Harmonia.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
That's right.
Speaker 11 (26:12):
This was a hearing that was open to the public,
so officials had to take extra steps to protect those
that were there and also make sure that the influx
of people into the courtroom that everyone was saved, and
that is why the judge.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Made these statements.
Speaker 11 (26:28):
This case has caused so much commotion around the world,
on the country, and people wanted to show up to
this hearing, even though, as you mentioned, we didn't even
see Tyler Robinson on the video. So the judge made
sure to say under these circumstances, where we have all
this extra security, where the President of the United States
is talking about, is I will not put my finger
(26:51):
on the scale of justice. And it was a message
I think that needed to be said in this case.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
You know, the fact that he kept the hearing open
to the public, as is ordered by the US Constitution,
in the face of what many considered to be a
copycat shooting, to me, shows great bravery.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
On the part of the judge. Listen to this.
Speaker 13 (27:16):
A twenty nine year old Texas man opens fire on
an ice facility in Dallas. Joshua John fired indiscriminately at
the building, killing one detainee and injuring two more. Bullet
ca scenes recovered at the scene were inscribed with quote
anti ice. John's brother said he did not know John
to be very politically motivated. The brothers grew up in
nearby Allen texas As boy Scouts. One of John's boy
(27:40):
Scout friends remembered a conversation about immigration with John in
which he was upset that no one seemed to understand
how desperate families are to get away from dangerous situations.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And there you hear a guy who is seemingly not
concerned with politics before being led to a blind shooting.
And this is not whether you agree with Ice or
don't agree with Ice.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Shooter politically motivated killing people. The fact that the judge
had an open courtroom is very impressive and standing up
to both sides, both very powerful sides wanting one outcome
or the next. Now you just heard Harmonia Rodriguez mentioned
(28:30):
the judge referring to the scales of justice.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
Listen, I will carry out my duties with fidelity, transparency,
and impartiality, treating every person who appears before me with
the dignity and respect they inherently do because they are
human beings. Let me be clear, I will not put
my finger on the scale of justice. These proceedings will
be open to the public, conducted in accordance with the law,
(28:57):
and handled with big diligence and competent to ensure that
justice is never compromised.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
What he means by that is, as you all know,
Lady Justice carries a shield and a sword, she also
holds the scales.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Of justice in her hands.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And when the judge says, I'm not putting my finger
on the scale, which would tip the scales of justice,
basically calling for one outcome guilty or the other not
guilty by tipping.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
The scales of justice.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Is it true, Harmonia Rodriguez, that the defense has already
been giving Carte Blanche a million dollar defense. They've already
been given a million dollars out of my wallet.
Speaker 11 (29:49):
That's correct. This case is going to be really expensive
for the state, and because it's a death penalty case,
the state can attribute lots and lots of money for
the defendant to get the best of defense possible. And
it doesn't have to be a public defender from the county.
It can be a prominent, fancy lawyer like the one
they have obtained. Her name is Catherine Nestor. And yes,
(30:10):
reports are saying that this game is I believe it's both.
And then the defense will cost the state of Utah
as much as a million dollars.
Speaker 13 (30:19):
As Utah County prepares for a high profile trial. They
are awarded a million dollars of taxpayer money to fund
Robinson's defense. The county hires three attorneys on Robinson's behalf.
The team led by Catherine Nester of Nestor Lewis and
Salt Lake City. Nestor earned her law degree at the
University of Texas and has more than thirty three years
of defense experience, working in both Salt Lake and San
(30:40):
Diego as a public defender.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when
I started hearing a legend started trying and streaming to
get down.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I was clarified.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
The man who allegedly shot Charlie Kirk, twenty two year
old Utah resident Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm getting bombarded right now with conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay, so I say.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Stop the conspiracy theories, and now they're pouring in like mad.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I want to take.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
A look at the shooting suspect, the Charlie Kirk shooting
suspect Robinson on body cam.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Let's see what we can learn watch this. You guys
have a couple of different versions about what happened. So
we have a. We had a third party witness that
watch the entire theme.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
I'm just trying to clarify your guys story a little bit.
Speaker 12 (31:43):
So you're heading from that right most through lane through.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
The intersection with cash.
Speaker 8 (31:49):
Maybe a second or so before I reached the intersection,
the light changed yellowf.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Okay, you remember looking at the lights.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
Yeah, I was looking off at the light just before
getting there.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
The main thing I see right there is it looks
just like he did in the video after the shooting
and before the shooting where he's wearing the sunglasses and
the hat. Here's some more body campist watch.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
So people on the side of you were slowing down
to a stop.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Right, I've seeing someone was slowing down, and I wondered
why they had slown so much.
Speaker 12 (32:21):
Okay, why did you do they were slowing down?
Speaker 11 (32:25):
I'm not sure, Okay, because I was turning red.
Speaker 13 (32:29):
Well, I was slow, like close up to the light
that I would be like I would end.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Up in the intersection and quitely trying to break from
that speed.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Okay, Okay, let's go straight out to Tracy Brown, joining
US body language expert and author of How to Detect Lies. Tracy,
I'm just looking at his body language and his demeanor
with the LA law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
What do you make of it? If anything?
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I watched the whole video, the whole hour long footage,
and here's what's different between him and everyone else there,
because you got to ask yourself, what do you see
and what's missing? And what's missing is two things. One nervousness,
so he may not have a.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Response to trauma.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And that can indicate like that, that can lead someone
to think.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
That, you know, what he allegedly did was okay.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Everyone else, his brother, his mom, the guy in the
car that he hit, showed signs of anxiety, fidgeting, wiping
or touching your face, touching your neck, playing.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
With your hair.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
He doesn't show anything. He keeps his hands in his pockets,
actually puts his thumbs in his pockets, which is framing
his manhood there, and it's different from everyone else.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Put her up, plays Tray Saint Brown. What do you
mean by putting his thumbs in his pocket? Says quote
framing his manhood? I feel like I'm reading a nineteen
sixty nine romance novel, framing his manhood.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Who said that I'm trying to be I'm trying to be.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
I'm trying to be It's the same moves that I've
seen when I've done reads on Justin Bieber. It's showing
how powerful he is, and it's uh, it's it's allude.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Made my pointing to his crotch to put it mildly,
that's what I mean. Okay, all right, like those guys
that are always grabbing themselves.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
I didn't know that meant anything. Okay, go ahead. Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Power play, is what it is. And so he's different.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
He thought it was awkward.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Well, okay, so let's let's put him in the situation.
Standing on the corner when your car is sitting in
front of you wrecked and the police have showed up
and you don't know how you're getting a ride home
is awkward. So we got to give him that. He
doesn't show the same level of effect that everyone else
involved does, and he also shows a bit of a
(35:01):
lack of awareness of the situation and what really happened.
That last part is a little more understandable, but this
shows I think it indicates how he is with law
enforcement and.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Concern for those around him, in effect.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
At a very very intense situation.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
You know, it's really interesting that you.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Interpret his behavior in that manner because, believe it or not, Tracy,
that is what other experts are saying regarding his behavior
right after the shooting. You're in lockstep. You're dovetailing with
what other experts have said about his demeanor right after
(35:47):
the shooting.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Experts ay Robinson's behavior after the shooting indicates he did
not have a solid plan to avoid capture. Former FBI
agent Michael Tabman believes Robinson likely struggled with the gravity
of his actions, leading to disorientation and confusion after the shooting.
Davin says Robinson had likely come to terms of being
caught and did not plan for what happened. After taking
(36:09):
the shot. Robinson waited in or in four hours trying
to recover his grandfather's mouser, and reportedly had a run
in with police on UVU campus that evening as he
made a move to get to the gun.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Okay, I'm not really buying into everything our investigative reporter
just said, such as he had confusion because he left
the scene, he changed clothes, he lay in wait trying
to get his grandpa's long gun back. That doesn't sound
confused at all to me. Because he knew that that
gun would be traced right back to his grandpa and
(36:44):
it had been gifted to him.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
In fact, isn't it true?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Harmonia Rodriguez Daily Mail that his bio dad, his father,
Robinson's father, kept saying, send me a picture of your
grandpa's gun, Send me a picture, and he couldn't because
it was confiscated by police. So he knew that gun
would connect directly to him.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
That's not confused. That's kind of smart.
Speaker 11 (37:09):
That's right, And that's a very important part of his
conversations with his romantic partner and roommates where he seems
the most thinking about the rifle and trying to get
it back. So he does mention that he's unsure whether
the rifle will have a serial number and be traced
back to him because it's an old weapon. It is
(37:30):
his grandfather's. Thousand percent in those messages that we have
seen with his romantic interest, Tyler Robinson was hyper focused
in getting that rifle and he knew it was the
major thing tying him to the crime, and that's why
he remained in the area trying to retrieve it.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Well, I guess you know, it's a sneaky FBI.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
According to Cannie Owens, again they knew not only that
the murder weapon belonged to Tyler Robinson had been given
to him by his grandpa, but also in those texts.
This completely belies any claim that he was confused. He
says to the roommate and texts, hey, go drop what
(38:13):
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
His words are not mine.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Go under my keyboard, to my computer and get rid
of this piece of paper that says, hey, I'm going
to have a chance to shoot Charlie Kirk and I'm
going to take it. So I guess the FBI either
planted that under his computer and then texted about it.
My point was just total complete bs. But my point
(38:38):
is here that he is by far from confused. Would
you agree, Hermania Rodriguez.
Speaker 11 (38:45):
Yeah, that's another way that we know he planned this attack,
because after he did it, he had we know that
he had left something in the apartment for the roommate
to find. Right after the shooting, they contact the roommate
and say, hey, chetguns are the keyboard. So there's more
premeditation plan right obviously.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And speaking of the long gun, Tracy Brown and any
Year saying he didn't seem to understand the gravity or
he couldn't take in the gravity of the car crash,
and he was acting really cavalier and casual guy in
front of the police that responded.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
To the crash.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
But here and after the shooting, we actually see him
and this is thanks to Candae Owens.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
She came up with this dq Jairy Queen photo of
him hanging around in the area.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
You know, he wanted to leave the area, but he
wanted to go and retrieve the long gun.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
It's like he doesn't understand.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
He was more worried, you know that his dad was
going to get mad about the long gun.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's what he was upset about.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
He didn't seem to understand the gravity that he just
murdered someone, according to police.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
A shot from Candie Owens. What about it, Tracy, Well.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
The way you do anything is the way you do everything.
So I am not surprised that he was aloof about
the situation that he had just created, like in killing someone.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It's the same way that he handled the car wreck.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
So not surprised, and yeah, this is this is how
he does things.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
But but Tracy Brown, I hear what you're saying, and
I want to follow up on that with our shrink
forensics psychologist Alison Paganelli joining us in the Atlanta jurisdiction.
Disconnected to what you've done. I see that all the
time in killers because people aren't real to them their objects.
(40:45):
They don't feel human empathy toward their victim or the
victim's family. So being disconnected does not rise to legal
insanity that you don't know right from wrong at the
time of the incident, does it.
Speaker 10 (41:00):
It does not, in fact, any sort of mental condition
that is just based on a pattern of criminal behavior
or antisocial traits, lack of empathy would not qualify for
even the first step of an insanity defense.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Just released dispatch audio has only poured fuel on the flame.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Listen, Gorge, can we just add a front for the
case documenting that there was an.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Officer in hospital would come stage in the.
Speaker 10 (41:38):
Emergency or in bank.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
This from at Hustle bitch on X straight out to
Sydney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Apparently the
original death certificate was signed by a doctor at the hospital.
Remember Kirk was taken straight to the hospital, and so
that is where the death certificate came from. The death
(42:02):
certificate isn't that right so far our city's owner.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yes, absolutely, straight out.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
To especial guests joining us now, doctor Priabenergy Board Certify
forensic pathologist, anatomic pathologist with anchor forensic Pathology consulting, Doctor Priya,
thank you so much for being with us, doctor Priya.
While the death certificate may have been issued at the hospital,
that does not preclude Kirk's body being sent for autopsy,
(42:32):
does it?
Speaker 6 (42:33):
Oh?
Speaker 14 (42:34):
Not at all, Not at all. First of all, I
would say that anytime there's trauma involved, a regular doctor,
even an er doctors signed the death certificate, so that
death certificate is null and void. They're not, They're not
legally allowed.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
To do that.
Speaker 14 (42:50):
So what will happen is that you'll go for an
autopsy even if the cause of death is somewhat obvious.
But we really need to document was injured, you know,
do it systematically and an issue a death certificate.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Harmonia Rodriguez joining US CHIEFUS reporter dailymail dot com. As
of tonight, has the autopsy report the official COEOD cause
of death being released.
Speaker 11 (43:15):
No, we have not seen an autopsy report, and that has,
as you said, fueled further speculation.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Back to doctor preamenergy joining as a forensic pathologist, doctor Prea.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
A slowdown in the release.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Of an autopsy report could be due to any number
of things. You got to wait on toxicology. With all
of the conspiracy theories floating around out there, I think
many of them will be put to rest once we
get the official autopsy report.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
What do you think is the hold up? Why not
report yet?
Speaker 14 (43:56):
Well, I think you're absolutely right in that. You know,
even if the autopsy is completed, the exam, the report
is very detailed, there's other studies that need to be done,
like to picology that does not happen overnight. And obviously
in any case but a high profile case, we want
(44:17):
to dot our eyes, cross our teeth. So I don't
know if there's any special analysis being done. But there's
also like different rules state to state. I mean, you know,
there could be legal issues where you would be able
to time in more of an eye as to why
the report may not even be released, especially with an
ongoing investigation.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, it could be any number of reasons.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
But now the conspiracy theorists are claiming the government will
use their own doctors.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
To affect a cover up.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
The theories even go as far as attacking Charlie Kirk's widow,
the mother of his children, is not I mean from
conspiracy theorists. As you will recall, at his memorial, Erica
Kirk raced up and I love you sign Now that
(45:07):
is being twisted around to claim that she is actually
putting up the devil's horns. The video you're seeing right
there is from turning point, But anyone familiar with sign
language knows hi, I love you, that's what she's doing.
I love you abbreviated. They won't even leave his widow alone.
(45:33):
We are also learning that, speaking of Erica Kirk to
Sidney Sumner, are there also theories that Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahoo ordered the hint and that Erica is actually in
an Israeli spy named Honeypot.
Speaker 6 (45:55):
Yes. Unfortunately, that is a rumor that is going around
that just gets a whoa really reaction from me personally.
So the rumor is that Charlie Kirk, who has been
vocal in his support of Israel, was kind of coming
to a point that he was no longer going to
(46:17):
be offering them his support in this conflict.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So, okay, you know what, I'm just going to stop
you right there. I'm just going to stop you right there.
I don't want to add fuel to the flying
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the Charlie Kurrent shooting suspects,
million dollar defense and.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
We're paying for it.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
This as the defendant claims no one was in danger, really,
his family insisting he's never set foot on the campus
anyway and that it's not him.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Caught on video. Uh okay, who should I believe you are?
My lying eyes?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Does it all boil down to this confessions, DNA and
Grandpa's rifle? The evidence stacking up? I mean, is he Grace?
This is Crime Stories. I'm going to thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
It's about two minutes in when the shot was fired.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
All witnesses are reporting that Polly heard was a single
shot that was fired and he reached out to his.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Neck and blood was starting the gutshot of his.
Speaker 5 (00:57):
Neck and it hit him in the coroner at art
and that caused a bleedout almost immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
The Charlie Kirk shooting suspect court appearance yesterday, he did.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Not show his face.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
This as we hear his roommate, his romantic partner, apparently
laying low even in a safe house. You know, Charlie
Kirk didn't have that opportunity, did he.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
This as the.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Suspect's family also laying low, But tonight we are learning
some family members insisting what he's never set foot on
the campus before. Okay, I guess all the cameras are lying,
So what does that mean it's not him we.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
See on the video.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So much happening straight out to Sidney Sumner Crime Stories
investigative reporter. How is how are certain family members claiming
that he the suspect, never has been on that campus?
Speaker 6 (01:59):
How?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What's that happening?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Am I supposed to ignore what he said in the
text to his romantic partner roommate?
Speaker 6 (02:06):
According to Kandace Owens, you are supposed to ignore those
texts because they were offered by SBI agents and not
Tyler Robinson to land that was stopping.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Sorry, I'm sorry, my earpace must not be working correctly
because I've thought for sure, Sydney Summer, I heard you.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Say that there is a theory that all the.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Text that the alleged shooter sent his romantic partner roommate
were actually written by the FBI.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Did you say that? I didn't.
Speaker 6 (02:37):
Candace Owens did on her streams yesterday afternoon, so she
took the steps further. We've already heard rumors that gen
z ers are saying, you know, I've never heard a
twenty two year old talk like that over text message.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
This is really weird.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
And she came out and made that accusation yesterday that
these text messages are part of an SBI cover up
and an SBI agent without a modicum of intelligence wrote
those text messages.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Okay, So the FBI agent was in on the whole thing,
that it was the grandpa's long gun and he couldn't
he the legislator couldn't retrieve it and was caught on
cam and a dairy queen waiting to go back into
the trees and bushes.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
To get his gun. So the FBI agent that this.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Conservative influencer is talking about, what is clairvoyant he was
in on the whole thing, or what did he plant
the gun to this.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
From canvas Owens Sydney helped me out. What is she claiming?
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Well, Nancy, so they're claiming Owens is claiming that these
text messages include every single detail that police had tracking
Tyler Robinson up until the point that he was arrested.
So we're hearing reports now from law enforcement sources that
Robinson actually had a run in with police near UVU
(04:04):
campus the evening after the shooting, and they believe he
was trying to make a move to retrieve that rifle. Now,
law enforcements already had the rifle in their possession, They already.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Knew what model it was.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
They already knew that it had a big two thousand
dollars scope on it. So Owens is pointing out that
these text messages include every single detail of the planning
of the shooting, of the rifle that was used in
the shooting, and that feels a little bit suspicious. She
finds that odd that this thirty start right.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So now here we go.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The floodgates are open. I haven't even gotten to the
hearing that went down yesterday.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
And what if anything it means to the defense and
the state.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
We are bombarded by these insane theories that the FBI
secretly wrote all the texts from Robinson, the alleged shooter,
to his roommate, his romantic partner, Lance Twigs, Okay Sky,
lazarro joining me, state and federal criminal defense attorney with
(05:16):
Ray Quinny and Kniebecker Sky just take off your defense
hat one moment, if that's possible. This is fodder for
the defense. It's complete fodder. Now, any defense attorney in
their right mind would likely not claim that the texts
were sent by the FBI because there's just too much
(05:39):
knowledge in those texts that nobody else would know all
those details other than the sender.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But that said, this is muddying the water for the state.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
All these conspiracy theories have gone wild, and basically the
defense can sit back at Pickin's shoes, which crazy Zany
conspiracy theory they're going to present to the jury have
to come up with a trial strategy. The online sleuths
are doing it for them.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
You know, in this case, this is the best thing that.
Speaker 7 (06:10):
Can happen, because if you've got a jury pool is
fighting with each other about conspiracy theories or this happened
or this didn't happen. I mean, that's the best thing
that can happen.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
To these I want to actually see her face, Sky
lazarro has won a lot of cases, but I want
to see her face. Did you just say, with apparently
a straight face, that the defense could blame the government
for Charlie Kirk's assassination.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
No, no, no, no, no, no, what a.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
FBI agent really did it.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
No defense attorney is going to do that. That's not
going to happen. It's not going to happen in this case. Well,
my point was is when you have a jury pool,
who's out there, who's getting all of this information and
hearing this from different platforms? And I think you know,
Candae said millions of viewers yesterday, people believe that stuff.
(07:05):
And if you have, if you have a jury pool
that is divided on whether or not the government had
a hand in this or covered it up or something else,
I mean, that's that's the grounds for jury or nullification.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
Somewhere along the.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Way, Chris McDonough, Chris mcdonaugh helped me.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Look, i know that some of these wild claims which
were about to hear are zany. But when I'm sitting
in the prosecutor's chair and I've got Charlie Kirk's widow
sitting behind me.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Waiting for me to somehow wave.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
A magic wand and make it all turn out right,
and you are confronted with theories like which being thrown
out right now, polluting the jury pool, it's overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, I'm I'm angry. I am angry.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
All they make believe and pretend theories that are out
there as to who assassinated Charlie Kirk in cold blood.
Now a rogue FBI agent did it. It's you can't
laugh it off, Chris, as tempting as it is. McDonough
is a former homicide investigator. He worked vice, He's worked
(08:26):
every angle for the state. He's now the star of
the interview room on YouTube, director of the Cold Case Foundation, Chris.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
This is not a joke. This is real. You get
one nut Jr. Look look at O. J. Simpson.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Really, people really believe the police could hold it together
and create a conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's totallys same thing here.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
Yeah, absolutely, Nan Cham. I mean and you know more
than anybody being in that courtroom to hear craziness like this,
I mean, this is just irresponsible right now. I mean
the fact that you have this allegation that you know,
some other dude i e. Law enforcement, the government, whoever
you know, had set this shit up and it's you know,
(09:16):
some gigantic conspiracy.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Exigent him up.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
What kid are you talking about, well, Rob talking about
is there somehow a middle school shooter?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I mean, I don't know what kid are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well?
Speaker 5 (09:33):
You know we're talking about Tyler Robinson, right, I mean,
and by the way I interviewed the younger kid, Well, well,
I agree with you, but you know he's also not
the smartest tool in the shed, even though he has
an IQ that's extremely high. The fact that he's left
all the evidence behind him and in front of him.
(09:56):
By the way, this I think this is part of
a place somewhere from somebody.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
The fact that the conspiracy theories are going to make
a lot of hay out of what you said just
then about leaving Evan and Ola. They're going to claim it
was planted. And I don't want to hear another word
about he's too dumb to pull it off. This guy
won a forty nearly forty thousand dollars scholarship controller and
please pull that video up, And do I have to
convince McDonough again for Pete to listen.
Speaker 8 (10:23):
To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah si University.
The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
This scholarship is available for forty years or he's Yeah, well,
the state saves a lot of money on that one.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, all that opportunity, all that advantage, and what did
he do?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
What were you saying about the under sheriff.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
Well, I interviewed the under sheriff and he confirmed that
everything that is being said online is not true. First
of all, the Tyler Robinson's father was not in law enforcement.
It was his friend and that's still being it out there. Second,
he did turn himself into the jail with a friend
of his who was retired law enforcement. That's not a conspiracy,
(11:09):
that's fact.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Crime stories.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
With Nancy Grace, Chris McDonough's, you know what, you're branching
out into even more conspiracy theories. And normally I would
tastise you for getting off the point, but you're right
another conspiracy theory, and let's take a look at the
source of some of the conspiracy theories.
Speaker 9 (11:37):
Any person with a modicum of intelligence is going to go,
I'm not going to put this down in writing with
every detail.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And apparently whoever offered.
Speaker 9 (11:45):
Those messages likely Fed's, didn't have a modicum of intelligence.
The family says that the photo of the young man
that is coming up the stairs, which was shared at
Blurry Image, is definitively not Tyler Robinson, and when I
put together when I'm being told by Lance's family and
when I'm hearing from the Robinson family through a third party,
(12:09):
I will say that it matches.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
It kind of seems like they're agreeing.
Speaker 9 (12:13):
One family's going, Hey, Lance is kind of evil, Why
is he getting Why is he getting cleared?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
The other one's going, Tyler's not this guy.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay, I really don't know where to start with that big, steaming,
stinky crock of BS I just heard that is from
Candae Owens.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Let's just break it down very quickly.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And then maybe we can actually get to the facts,
the real facts, the hard evidence about what is happening now.
First of all, any person with a modicum of intelligence
is going to go I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Not going to put this all down in writing.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Every detail, and whoever authored those messages like the FEDS
don't have a modicum of intelligence.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I was a FED for three years before I became
a felony prosecutor in Superior Court, So as a former FED,
I don't appreciate that very much. But that said, I'm
very very curious Street makeout to Sky lazarro joining US
veteran trial lawyer in both the state and federal criminal systems.
(13:15):
That is a really long stretch to claim, Hey, the
defendant would never put so many details in his text.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Byes, Yes they would because they're not that smart. Sky.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Why do you think the federal and the state jails
are so full because they're idiots?
Speaker 7 (13:32):
I wish to to my clients ever wrote anything down,
but that is not the reality.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And also, let's talk about this to Tracy Brown joining us.
You guys know Tracy very well, body language expert and
author of How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
She's body language trainer dot com. Tracy.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Please, when you think that you are texting with your
romantic partner, you say a lot more than you would
say to other people.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Right, I think you do because there's a very deep
trust there.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I would say.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
One of the things that concerned me when I saw
this was the perfect punctuation and capitalization and it didn't
seem age appropriate to me. So either he's so smart
that he's not tuned into his generation, or something else
has taken over.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
It's very odd. Hut her up.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Just so you know, try I see both of my
twins text NonStop to me, and their punctuation is always perfect.
Really wow, Okay that's really yeah, so reality check. Another
thing too, Alison Paganelli joining US forensic psychologists. Esteemed forensic
psychologists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Alison Paganelli,
(14:52):
thank you for being with us, Alison. When you are
writing someone that you trust and that you love, that
you're romantic with very often, and you lower your guard
and you say things you wouldn't normally say to anybody else,
isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yes? I like that short and sweet. Yes. Another thing
regarding this conspiracy theory that the.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
FBI really wrote the text and not the defendant. The
FBI would have to be clairvoyant in some way to
know all the details about Grandpa's long gun and how
he was trying to go back and retrieve it, and
so much more contained in those texts from Tyler Robinson
to his roommate. Yes, they would be overly involved.
Speaker 10 (15:38):
If this were the conspiracy that Candice Owen says it is,
then that would mean that the FBI was tracking mister Robinson,
knew of weapons, that he had a hold on this
the moment.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Tracking mister Robinson more like setting him up, because they
if the FBI is responsible, then they would have been
responsible for the shooting and for setting it up and
for framing him. I mean, this goes a lot deeper
than thinking a few texts.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So you would have to.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Believe that the FBI was in on this from the
get go. Do you really believe that, because I find
it to be a fantastical farce.
Speaker 10 (16:20):
Do I believe that that's what happened? No, I don't.
To me, it would be far fetched for the FBI
to pick Tyler Robinson out of many, many males and
females who are online talking about various political things. He's
(16:41):
a twenty two year old, allegedly really intelligent, he got
the scholarship.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It would seem to me.
Speaker 10 (16:48):
Yeah, like I said, pretty far fetched for them to
just pick him out and decide, we're going to frame
this guy, and we're going to send all these texts.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
With all the details.
Speaker 10 (16:57):
It's just it would have had to have been pre
planned for a long period of time, and I just
don't think that's a plausible theory.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
It's not plausible.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Harmonia Rodriguez now joining US chief US reporter with dailymail
dot Com. Harmonia, thank you for being with US so
you know now that we're hashing out and this is
just one conspiracy theory that the FBI really.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Wrote the text.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I haven't even gotten to what happened in court, Harmonia,
Where is this coming from?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
This theory? And another thing I.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Heard Owen's claim is that the families are saying the
defendant is innocent.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Of course they are. They always say that. How often
do you see.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The mother of And by the way, these are this
is the family that convinced him to turn himself in,
all right now claiming yeah, that's not him in the picture.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
It's just where's this coming from?
Speaker 11 (18:00):
This case has been completely riddled by conspiracy theories that
have really emerged on social media, particularly on x A lot.
You talked about people saying that the text messages do
not sound how a gen Zer would speak. We saw
a lot of memes being done about this.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
You know, please, Harmonia, have you noticed it? Everybody talking
about how a gen Zer would speak is not a
gen Zer? Okay, so consider the source on that.
Speaker 11 (18:28):
Go ahead, please correct This was all speculation based on
nothing specific. But then we start seeing these same conspiracies
emerge from Candace Own's show. Now it's important to remember
that Canda's owns is not a typical journalist. She claims
that she's been speaking to the family of Tyler Robinson,
who allegedly claims that that's not their son involved. However,
(18:50):
we don't really have evidence about this. She's not saying
which people she speak into. She actually mentioned the clip
that you showed that she's talking to them through a
third person. So a lot of what Kendace owns to
say on her show seems to lead to other of
the conspiracy theories that she has been peddling about Charlie
Kirk and who would have wanted to have him gone
(19:12):
according to her.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know, another issue to Sky lazarro joining as veteran
trial lawyer out of the Utah jurisdiction. Sky, So much
of it is fantastical, but when you seek the twelve
in the box, you don't know what they're really thinking.
I mean, I would try to get as up close
(19:36):
and personal to each juror as I could without getting
reprimanded by the judge, and I mean physically close.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
To them, right up.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
To the jury rail, if I could to look them
in the eye and watch them the way I'm watching
you right now, as they answered each question, and the questions,
you know, after the typical where do you work, how
long have you been there? Or do you have a family,
do you know the defendant? Do you know anybody in
his family? Blah blah blah. I would look right at
(20:06):
them and hold their gaze to see if they looked away,
if they blinked rapidly, if they had mannerisms that suggested
they had to think about their answers, or they concealing something.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You never know skt what they're really thinking.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And we've seen so many jurors recently that have gone
online and investigated the case themselves, which is prohibited during
a trial. You've got to be really careful that one
of these jurors haven't gotten sucked down the conspiracy drain
that's one hundred percent cracked.
Speaker 7 (20:43):
I think our biggest fear is trial lawyers are the
people who really want to be there. You almost want
jerors who don't want to be there because they're probably
less involved in the case. You're absolutely right, it doesn't
matter how much you do in bordy or how close
you get to them. You never know really what those
people are thinking deep down, or if they have uh
(21:05):
any affiliations or gone down these conspiracy theory rat holes
and just want to be a part of this case.
And the other thing is, unless just a question, it's
almost impossible to keep them offline during your trial.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And of course, this is a defense team's fantasy. Is said,
you're our fantasy game that they're playing right now, largely
fueled by sluice. Tonight, we are dealing with the facts
as we know them, and now not he said, she said.
(21:39):
The third cousin twice removed told the gas station attendant this,
and then they called me.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Blah blah blah. But here are just a few of the.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Conspiracy theories that are spinning out right now. And trust me,
believe you me. The defense is writing everyone down.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
Listen, any person with a modicum of intelligence is going
to go, I'm not going to put this down.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
In writing with every detail.
Speaker 9 (22:09):
And apparently whoever offered those messages likely Fed's didn't have
a modicum of intelligence. The family says that the photo
of the young man that is coming up the stairs,
which was shared at Blurry Image, is definitively not Tyler Robinson.
And when I put together, when I'm being told by
Lance's family and when I'm hearing from the.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Robinson family.
Speaker 9 (22:33):
Through a third party, I will say that it matches.
It kind of seems like they're agreeing. One family's going, hey,
Lance is kind of evil. Why is he getting Why
is he getting cleared? And the other one's going, Tyler's
not this guy.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
From Candas Owens.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
This is a father of two and a little girl,
a little boy, wife, ericakhim or Haiti.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
He's a media figure.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
He was magnetic.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Charlie Kirk is one of these people that is a firebrand.
They know he is one of these guys who has
he stood up for what he believes in.
Speaker 12 (23:03):
Candace Owens claims a source close to the Robinson family
believe Robinson is being framed. Has never been to UVU campus.
Robinson's parents know the blurry photos distributed by law enforcement
are not their son. Robinson never confessed to his father,
and he did not write the messages to Lance Twiggs
on September tenth.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Why are you playing that?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I just said We're going to be dealing with facts tonight,
not zany conspiracy theories that are handing over wild ideas
for the defense to pursue in front of a jury. No,
let's go to the courtroom. Listen to what the judge
just said.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
As this case moves forward, mister Robinson's constitutional rights will
be protected at every stage he sits before this court
presumed innocence, and that presumption remains unless and until, gentlemen,
of every offense charged against him is proved beyond a
reasonable doubt. At the same time, and as applicable, victims
(24:09):
are entitled under our Constitution to be treated with fairness,
respect and dignity, free from harassment or abuse. Justice demands
that both of these principles, the rights of the accused
and the rights of victims, be honored without compromise.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
City Center.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
We're hearing the judge right there, Judge Torri Graft speaking
talking about being fair not just to the defendant, but
to the victims the state as well. Why did everybody
go berserve when the judge said he was going to
be fair.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I don't get it. What's wrong with that?
Speaker 6 (24:44):
I found nothing wrong with it. I think the judge
made the decision to speak on this issue and speak
on keeping things fair because this is such a charge
case going forward. They really want to protect the defendant,
the victim, the future jury. At this latest hearing. Attendees
(25:06):
who came in person were not allowed to have bags,
They were not allowed to wear any kind of face
covering that could possibly conceal their identity. There are serious
secure security concerns with this upcoming trial, with all of
the hearings up until the trial, and they want to
make sure everyone feels safe and secure in that courtroom,
(25:28):
you know.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
To Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Daily Mail,
I respect the judge because the judge is standing up
to people, the baying mob that is demanding one thing
or all the conspiracy theories shore demanding another thing, and
he is saying he's going to be fair and they
can all go straight to h doublel. Of course, I'm
(25:50):
paraphrasing right there that he is going to do the
right thing. Tell me, Siddy was just talking about the
security measures taken for this is just the hearing and
the defendant didn't even show his face. Profound security measures taken,
explain Harmonia.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
That's right.
Speaker 11 (26:12):
This was a hearing that was open to the public,
so officials had to take extra steps to protect those
that were there and also make sure that the influx
of people into the courtroom that everyone was saved, and
that is why the judge.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Made these statements.
Speaker 11 (26:28):
This case has caused so much commotion around the world,
on the country, and people wanted to show up to
this hearing, even though, as you mentioned, we didn't even
see Tyler Robinson on the video. So the judge made
sure to say under these circumstances, where we have all
this extra security, where the President of the United States
is talking about, is I will not put my finger
(26:51):
on the scale of justice. And it was a message
I think that needed to be said in this case.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
You know, the fact that he kept the hearing open
to the public, as is ordered by the US Constitution,
in the face of what many considered to be a
copycat shooting, to me, shows great bravery.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
On the part of the judge. Listen to this.
Speaker 13 (27:16):
A twenty nine year old Texas man opens fire on
an ice facility in Dallas. Joshua John fired indiscriminately at
the building, killing one detainee and injuring two more. Bullet
ca scenes recovered at the scene were inscribed with quote
anti ice. John's brother said he did not know John
to be very politically motivated. The brothers grew up in
nearby Allen texas As boy Scouts. One of John's boy
(27:40):
Scout friends remembered a conversation about immigration with John in
which he was upset that no one seemed to understand
how desperate families are to get away from dangerous situations.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And there you hear a guy who is seemingly not
concerned with politics before being led to a blind shooting.
And this is not whether you agree with Ice or
don't agree with Ice.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This is a.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Shooter politically motivated killing people. The fact that the judge
had an open courtroom is very impressive and standing up
to both sides, both very powerful sides wanting one outcome
or the next. Now you just heard Harmonia Rodriguez mentioned
(28:30):
the judge referring to the scales of justice.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
Listen, I will carry out my duties with fidelity, transparency,
and impartiality, treating every person who appears before me with
the dignity and respect they inherently do because they are
human beings. Let me be clear, I will not put
my finger on the scale of justice. These proceedings will
be open to the public, conducted in accordance with the law,
(28:57):
and handled with big diligence and competent to ensure that
justice is never compromised.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
What he means by that is, as you all know,
Lady Justice carries a shield and a sword, she also
holds the scales.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Of justice in her hands.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
And when the judge says, I'm not putting my finger
on the scale, which would tip the scales of justice,
basically calling for one outcome guilty or the other not
guilty by tipping.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
The scales of justice.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Is it true, Harmonia Rodriguez, that the defense has already
been giving Carte Blanche a million dollar defense. They've already
been given a million dollars out of my wallet.
Speaker 11 (29:49):
That's correct. This case is going to be really expensive
for the state, and because it's a death penalty case,
the state can attribute lots and lots of money for
the defendant to get the best of defense possible. And
it doesn't have to be a public defender from the county.
It can be a prominent, fancy lawyer like the one
they have obtained. Her name is Catherine Nestor. And yes,
(30:10):
reports are saying that this game is I believe it's both.
And then the defense will cost the state of Utah
as much as a million dollars.
Speaker 13 (30:19):
As Utah County prepares for a high profile trial. They
are awarded a million dollars of taxpayer money to fund
Robinson's defense. The county hires three attorneys on Robinson's behalf.
The team led by Catherine Nester of Nestor Lewis and
Salt Lake City. Nestor earned her law degree at the
University of Texas and has more than thirty three years
of defense experience, working in both Salt Lake and San
(30:40):
Diego as a public defender.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when
I started hearing a legend started trying and streaming to
get down.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I was clarified.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
The man who allegedly shot Charlie Kirk, twenty two year
old Utah resident Tyler Robinson.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm getting bombarded right now with conspiracy theories.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay, so I say.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Stop the conspiracy theories, and now they're pouring in like mad.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I want to take.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
A look at the shooting suspect, the Charlie Kirk shooting
suspect Robinson on body cam.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Let's see what we can learn watch this. You guys
have a couple of different versions about what happened. So
we have a. We had a third party witness that
watch the entire theme.
Speaker 6 (31:36):
I'm just trying to clarify your guys story a little bit.
Speaker 12 (31:43):
So you're heading from that right most through lane through.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
The intersection with cash.
Speaker 8 (31:49):
Maybe a second or so before I reached the intersection,
the light changed yellowf.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Okay, you remember looking at the lights.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
Yeah, I was looking off at the light just before
getting there.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
The main thing I see right there is it looks
just like he did in the video after the shooting
and before the shooting where he's wearing the sunglasses and
the hat. Here's some more body campist watch.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
So people on the side of you were slowing down
to a stop.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Right, I've seeing someone was slowing down, and I wondered
why they had slown so much.
Speaker 12 (32:21):
Okay, why did you do they were slowing down?
Speaker 11 (32:25):
I'm not sure, Okay, because I was turning red.
Speaker 13 (32:29):
Well, I was slow, like close up to the light
that I would be like I would end.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Up in the intersection and quitely trying to break from
that speed.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Okay, Okay, let's go straight out to Tracy Brown, joining
US body language expert and author of How to Detect Lies. Tracy,
I'm just looking at his body language and his demeanor
with the LA law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
What do you make of it? If anything?
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I watched the whole video, the whole hour long footage,
and here's what's different between him and everyone else there,
because you got to ask yourself, what do you see
and what's missing? And what's missing is two things. One nervousness,
so he may not have a.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Response to trauma.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
And that can indicate like that, that can lead someone
to think.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
That, you know, what he allegedly did was okay.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Everyone else, his brother, his mom, the guy in the
car that he hit, showed signs of anxiety, fidgeting, wiping
or touching your face, touching your neck, playing.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
With your hair.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
He doesn't show anything. He keeps his hands in his pockets,
actually puts his thumbs in his pockets, which is framing
his manhood there, and it's different from everyone else.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Put her up, plays Tray Saint Brown. What do you
mean by putting his thumbs in his pocket? Says quote
framing his manhood? I feel like I'm reading a nineteen
sixty nine romance novel, framing his manhood.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Who said that I'm trying to be I'm trying to be.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
I'm trying to be It's the same moves that I've
seen when I've done reads on Justin Bieber. It's showing
how powerful he is, and it's uh, it's it's allude.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Made my pointing to his crotch to put it mildly,
that's what I mean. Okay, all right, like those guys
that are always grabbing themselves.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
I didn't know that meant anything. Okay, go ahead. Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Power play, is what it is. And so he's different.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
He thought it was awkward.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Well, okay, so let's let's put him in the situation.
Standing on the corner when your car is sitting in
front of you wrecked and the police have showed up
and you don't know how you're getting a ride home
is awkward. So we got to give him that. He
doesn't show the same level of effect that everyone else
involved does, and he also shows a bit of a
(35:01):
lack of awareness of the situation and what really happened.
That last part is a little more understandable, but this
shows I think it indicates how he is with law
enforcement and.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Concern for those around him, in effect.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
At a very very intense situation.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
You know, it's really interesting that you.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Interpret his behavior in that manner because, believe it or not, Tracy,
that is what other experts are saying regarding his behavior
right after the shooting. You're in lockstep. You're dovetailing with
what other experts have said about his demeanor right after
(35:47):
the shooting.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Experts ay Robinson's behavior after the shooting indicates he did
not have a solid plan to avoid capture. Former FBI
agent Michael Tabman believes Robinson likely struggled with the gravity
of his actions, leading to disorientation and confusion after the shooting.
Davin says Robinson had likely come to terms of being
caught and did not plan for what happened. After taking
(36:09):
the shot. Robinson waited in or in four hours trying
to recover his grandfather's mouser, and reportedly had a run
in with police on UVU campus that evening as he
made a move to get to the gun.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Okay, I'm not really buying into everything our investigative reporter
just said, such as he had confusion because he left
the scene, he changed clothes, he lay in wait trying
to get his grandpa's long gun back. That doesn't sound
confused at all to me. Because he knew that that
gun would be traced right back to his grandpa and
(36:44):
it had been gifted to him.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
In fact, isn't it true?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Harmonia Rodriguez Daily Mail that his bio dad, his father,
Robinson's father, kept saying, send me a picture of your
grandpa's gun, Send me a picture, and he couldn't because
it was confiscated by police. So he knew that gun
would connect directly to him.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
That's not confused. That's kind of smart.
Speaker 11 (37:09):
That's right, And that's a very important part of his
conversations with his romantic partner and roommates where he seems
the most thinking about the rifle and trying to get
it back. So he does mention that he's unsure whether
the rifle will have a serial number and be traced
back to him because it's an old weapon. It is
(37:30):
his grandfather's. Thousand percent in those messages that we have
seen with his romantic interest, Tyler Robinson was hyper focused
in getting that rifle and he knew it was the
major thing tying him to the crime, and that's why
he remained in the area trying to retrieve it.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Well, I guess you know, it's a sneaky FBI.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
According to Cannie Owens, again they knew not only that
the murder weapon belonged to Tyler Robinson had been given
to him by his grandpa, but also in those texts.
This completely belies any claim that he was confused. He
says to the roommate and texts, hey, go drop what
(38:13):
you're doing.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
His words are not mine.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Go under my keyboard, to my computer and get rid
of this piece of paper that says, hey, I'm going
to have a chance to shoot Charlie Kirk and I'm
going to take it. So I guess the FBI either
planted that under his computer and then texted about it.
My point was just total complete bs. But my point
(38:38):
is here that he is by far from confused. Would
you agree, Hermania Rodriguez.
Speaker 11 (38:45):
Yeah, that's another way that we know he planned this attack,
because after he did it, he had we know that
he had left something in the apartment for the roommate
to find. Right after the shooting, they contact the roommate
and say, hey, chetguns are the keyboard. So there's more
premeditation plan right obviously.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
And speaking of the long gun, Tracy Brown and any
Year saying he didn't seem to understand the gravity or
he couldn't take in the gravity of the car crash,
and he was acting really cavalier and casual guy in
front of the police that responded.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
To the crash.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
But here and after the shooting, we actually see him
and this is thanks to Candae Owens.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
She came up with this dq Jairy Queen photo of
him hanging around in the area.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
You know, he wanted to leave the area, but he
wanted to go and retrieve the long gun.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
It's like he doesn't understand.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
He was more worried, you know that his dad was
going to get mad about the long gun.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's what he was upset about.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
He didn't seem to understand the gravity that he just
murdered someone, according to police.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
A shot from Candie Owens. What about it, Tracy, Well.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
The way you do anything is the way you do everything.
So I am not surprised that he was aloof about
the situation that he had just created, like in killing someone.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It's the same way that he handled the car wreck.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
So not surprised, and yeah, this is this is how
he does things.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
But but Tracy Brown, I hear what you're saying, and
I want to follow up on that with our shrink
forensics psychologist Alison Paganelli joining us in the Atlanta jurisdiction.
Disconnected to what you've done. I see that all the
time in killers because people aren't real to them their objects.
(40:45):
They don't feel human empathy toward their victim or the
victim's family. So being disconnected does not rise to legal
insanity that you don't know right from wrong at the
time of the incident, does it.
Speaker 10 (41:00):
It does not, in fact, any sort of mental condition
that is just based on a pattern of criminal behavior
or antisocial traits, lack of empathy would not qualify for
even the first step of an insanity defense.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Just released dispatch audio has only poured fuel on the flame.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Listen, Gorge, can we just add a front for the
case documenting that there was an.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Officer in hospital would come stage in the.
Speaker 10 (41:38):
Emergency or in bank.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
This from at Hustle bitch on X straight out to
Sydney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Apparently the
original death certificate was signed by a doctor at the hospital.
Remember Kirk was taken straight to the hospital, and so
that is where the death certificate came from. The death
(42:02):
certificate isn't that right so far our city's owner.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yes, absolutely, straight out.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
To especial guests joining us now, doctor Priabenergy Board Certify
forensic pathologist, anatomic pathologist with anchor forensic Pathology consulting, Doctor Priya,
thank you so much for being with us, doctor Priya.
While the death certificate may have been issued at the hospital,
that does not preclude Kirk's body being sent for autopsy,
(42:32):
does it?
Speaker 6 (42:33):
Oh?
Speaker 14 (42:34):
Not at all, Not at all. First of all, I
would say that anytime there's trauma involved, a regular doctor,
even an er doctors signed the death certificate, so that
death certificate is null and void. They're not, They're not
legally allowed.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
To do that.
Speaker 14 (42:50):
So what will happen is that you'll go for an
autopsy even if the cause of death is somewhat obvious.
But we really need to document was injured, you know,
do it systematically and an issue a death certificate.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Harmonia Rodriguez joining US CHIEFUS reporter dailymail dot com. As
of tonight, has the autopsy report the official COEOD cause
of death being released.
Speaker 11 (43:15):
No, we have not seen an autopsy report, and that has,
as you said, fueled further speculation.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Back to doctor preamenergy joining as a forensic pathologist, doctor Prea.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
A slowdown in the release.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Of an autopsy report could be due to any number
of things. You got to wait on toxicology. With all
of the conspiracy theories floating around out there, I think
many of them will be put to rest once we
get the official autopsy report.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
What do you think is the hold up? Why not
report yet?
Speaker 14 (43:56):
Well, I think you're absolutely right in that. You know,
even if the autopsy is completed, the exam, the report
is very detailed, there's other studies that need to be done,
like to picology that does not happen overnight. And obviously
in any case but a high profile case, we want
(44:17):
to dot our eyes, cross our teeth. So I don't
know if there's any special analysis being done. But there's
also like different rules state to state. I mean, you know,
there could be legal issues where you would be able
to time in more of an eye as to why
the report may not even be released, especially with an
ongoing investigation.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, it could be any number of reasons.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
But now the conspiracy theorists are claiming the government will
use their own doctors.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
To affect a cover up.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
The theories even go as far as attacking Charlie Kirk's widow,
the mother of his children, is not I mean from
conspiracy theorists. As you will recall, at his memorial, Erica
Kirk raced up and I love you sign Now that
(45:07):
is being twisted around to claim that she is actually
putting up the devil's horns. The video you're seeing right
there is from turning point, But anyone familiar with sign
language knows hi, I love you, that's what she's doing.
I love you abbreviated. They won't even leave his widow alone.
(45:33):
We are also learning that, speaking of Erica Kirk to
Sidney Sumner, are there also theories that Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahoo ordered the hint and that Erica is actually in
an Israeli spy named Honeypot.
Speaker 6 (45:55):
Yes. Unfortunately, that is a rumor that is going around
that just gets a whoa really reaction from me personally.
So the rumor is that Charlie Kirk, who has been
vocal in his support of Israel, was kind of coming
to a point that he was no longer going to
(46:17):
be offering them his support in this conflict.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So, okay, you know what, I'm just going to stop
you right there. I'm just going to stop you right there.
I don't want to add fuel to the flying
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.