November 22, 2017 • 50 mins
Debbie Lynn Randall was 3rd-grader when she was snatched off a Marietta, Georgia, street, then raped, killed, and thrown in a ditch not too far from her home. It’s been 45 years since her death, and the killer still remains elusive. Detective Morris Nix of the Cobb County Cold Case Unit, who wants nothing more than to find justice for a little girl, believes he can solve the case. Nix and CrimeOnline reporter Leigh Egan join Nancy Grace to discuss the latest in the investigation.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
Channel one thirty two. Who killed Deborah Lynn Randall? How
do you do something that is a liberal? Randall? From
January thirteen, nineteen seventy two. Debby was nine years old
when she vanished. It's been more than forty three years.
Group of retired detectives volunteering their time, determined to bring
(00:27):
her family answer to the beautiful kid duclugative picture and
you say the amishs. Detective Nicks is part of a
rare group of retired police officers to specialize in solving
Cop Counties cold cases. If you investigator, feel detective for
peel cop and that's what you moved forward that phone call,
that family saying sit down with the best good means
for you. I give in your buying your back or
(00:49):
find out her work before there for it. We haven't
forgotten and we're not going to give up. It was
a cold, cold winter's night and a nine year old
little girl, debb Lynn Randall. Debbie Lynn Randall steps out
of a laundry mat to head back home. She's only
a half a block away from her family's home. She's
(01:11):
got with her the detergent. They've been doing their family laundry,
and who would be worried just a half a block
from home, not even a whole block from the laundry mat,
walking by herself. She never made it home. This nine
year old little girl never seen alive again. I Nancy Grace,
(01:37):
this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
a nine year old little girl and trusted just to
walk a few doors. I can remember at that age
we didn't have a washer and dryer either, and we
would have to drive to the laundry mat. And we
also did it on Sundays on our way to evening services.
I remember it like it was yesterday. And then coming
(01:59):
home and getting into the warm sheets and the towels
and hiding under them and playing in them until they
weren't warm anymore. That's what you do when you're nine
years old. You don't end up missing and murdered. That's
what happened to Debbie. And joining me right now special
guests from the Cobb County Coal Case Unit, Detective Morris Nis,
(02:22):
whose mission has been finding the truth of what happened
to nine year old Debbie, also with me Crime Online
reporter Lee Eagan to both of you. Thank you for
being with us. I wanted to go back to that evening, cold, cold, cold,
(02:42):
really frigid winter night. Let's start at the beginning to
Detective Morris Nicks again, thank you for being with us.
Let's start with her leaving the house and her trip
to the laundry. Matt Morris, start and welcome. Thank you.
Nei um. A lot of people have asked me why
(03:03):
was a nine year old there alone? And I explained
to him this was a gathering place for particularly the
little girls, where they will get together at the lawn
room matte and play with her barbed dolls and trade
clothes and things that you know nine year old girls do.
She was within sight of where she lived, so we
just across the street, and so it really wasn't that unusual.
(03:28):
Detective Morris Knicks, Hold on one moment, you're telling me
something I didn't know. I've been saying half a block
ever since I started researching this case. Are you saying
it's more like across the street? Correct? It was probably
about s whoa seventy five ft that is just basically
across the street. Okay, See that puts it in a
(03:49):
whole different light because While I understood the parents letting
her walk a half a block by herself, I always
thought why did they do that? But that would be
like most people saying, hey, can you run next door
and take this to the neighbor. And you know, Marris,
you knew, you know, I grew up in rural Georgia
(04:10):
and we would go outside and play and play and play,
and finally come home when it started getting dark. Nobody
thought a thing about it. When the front porch light
came on, you knew it was time to go on.
That's right. Or either I would hear my parents wayne
the distance, blowing the car horn right here, the chimes
in the church steeple, and go, oh six o'clock. Better go.
(04:31):
I mean, we could go where ever we wanted to,
as long as we've done her homework. Now, let me
get back to the seat, Mars. After all of our
discussions about Debbie, I didn't get this. This is an
important fact. So it's just across the street, all right,
Sorry to slow you down, Go ahead, detective. Okay, Well,
she was at lunder matt playing with her friends. I
interviewed someone who told me at one point said Debbie
(04:55):
walked out the door said, you know, see you later, goodbye.
I gotta go, she said. I wanted to go with her,
but my older sister said, no, you're gonna stay here
and help me full close wow with me. Lea Egan,
investigative reporter with Crime Online dot Com Lee, when I
look back and I've heard this from countless I can't
even count them crime victims, families or friends. If only
(05:19):
I had, if he had, if she had, if ten
minutes this way, ten minutes that way, it's it can
torture you, Leagan thinking what if I run into that?
A lot on these stories, there's always usually every story
has at least one person that was like, only I
could have said this to her or him, just got
them to hold back for a few minutes. And it's
(05:41):
it's it's not their fault. I mean, nobody knew. No.
I just feel so bad about it. And her parents
had probably tortured themselves about letting her go across the street.
This little girl was a happy girl, a third grade
student at Pine Forest Elementary, just nine years old. You know, guys,
you know that's the age of the twins. Just nine
years old. She was walking that to her first street
(06:07):
home there at mary Atta place. She had been at
the Duds and SuDS co Op laundry matt. She absolutely
got there, she was spotted, she was identified. There were
other little girls there that Sunday evening and they were
just as Detective Morris Nick said, exchanging doll close. They
all brought their dolls and that funny a lot of
(06:29):
times I can remember. She doesn't do it now, but
when Lucy would go to the playground, she'd take a
doll and if there were other girls there, they would
play with the dolls. So when she went to go
do the laundry, she took her dolls. So what do
we know about when she left Detective Nick's she left
about seven? The best we can tell, she left about seven. Um,
(06:50):
wait a minute, now, hold on. She I understand that
the stepdad, Robert Hooker, took her to the laundry matt
around seven with a load of laundry and he left
her there with two bucks. And when he last saw her,
according to the reports I've read, she was putting clothes
in the washing machine when her stepdad left. Now is
(07:10):
that correct? Yes, that's that's approximate. Um, we believe possibly
he a little bit earlier and that she actually walked
out about seven fifteen, seven twenty from what we're able
to put together. You know, it also changes things, Detective Nick,
because for a moment there, I thought she had walked
over across the street with the laundry herself. No, her stepdad,
(07:32):
who has is not a part of this investigation. He
had an alibi for that whole time because you always
look at the dad and stepdad first, and carry the
mom's boyfriend. But he walked her over there, which makes
it it seemed even more safe, and left her with
two bucks, the laundry, and the clothes, I mean, the detergent. Okay,
(07:53):
so she's there thirty minutes, then she leaves. All right,
what happens then, Well, this is where it starts to
we have to start sorting things out. Um. I have
one witness that said I saw her across the street,
and the witness said, I think someone called out to her.
She recognized that person, turned around and came back towards them, which,
(08:17):
of course gives you one theory. Someone else said, no, well, yeah,
hold on, let's follow that to its logical conclusion. When
you say it gives you one theory, Not all of
us are cold case Unit detectives. So when you say
that's one theory, what you mean is it's somebody she
knows that could call her name out, or they could
have said hey, little girl, but they could have also
(08:38):
used her name. To the witness, say they used her name,
did not say that. So she leaves. Let's just estimate,
and she leaves with the doll and the box of
detergent or just the detergent. She just had the detergent.
According according to the reports, she may have had the doll,
but there's no mention of the dogs. And I do
(09:00):
the same thing, what happened to the dog? Because you
know that dog could be sitting on some guy's shelf
right now? You know that. You know how killers keep
mementos and treasures like people's underwear or their their driver's
license or a ticket stub like you put in your
photo album, your treasure book, your scrap book. They keep
(09:20):
scrap books in essence of their murder victims. So I
wonder what happened to the doll? Okay, so somebody sees
her leaving. We can place that around seven twenty that
Sunday night, going across the street. We're positive she left
the laundry. Matt right, Okay, so then what happens and
then she vanishes? Um. I had one witness that said,
(09:45):
I think I don't think she ever went across the street,
and I had another one to tell them. I said, yes,
she crossed the street, so she had to have come back.
And of course the laundry matters, you know, Nancy is
it's a noisy place. You've got wash shoes and dwighters running.
And so we did not know if this was just
a quick abduction. And then we talked to Sandra, who
(10:08):
we give a lot of credibility of Sandra, and she says,
oh no, she was kicking and screaming. He threw her
over the shoulder and threw her in the car. And
Sandra resolved for us to this point, the fact that
whoever did this was alone just one moment. And guess
(10:28):
who we are talking to now. Take a listen to
possibly the only eyewitness to the kidnap of nine year
old Debbie Randall. Sandra, what made you decide to come
forward this much later? My sister worked for Cobb County Gale,
(10:48):
and she told me the case had been reopened, and
I thought it had been closed all a long time ago,
and I told her I saw it happened, and she said, well,
somebody might be calling union in touch with you, and
I said okay. And that's when she was talking to
a detective and I called her one day and she said, well,
(11:12):
this is going to that and she put him on
the phone and he asked me if I would be
willing to talk to detective next and from their own
as as just connection to you, Santra. I know it
was a while back, but please put your mind back
to the evening Debbie disappeared. What did you observe lady
(11:37):
might get her where they thought they got hurt. There
was like a playground that was behind the law dramat
and also a place there where you would go and
get Line Morris to cut people's grass. And there was
a tree right there beside the laundromat where there was
no window. Is there anything on the side. I've seen
(11:58):
this black pick up up stop. The driver got out,
left this door open, let's the truck running. He ran.
He went over to Debbie. He grabbed her and she
was kicking her feet and kicking, kicking real hard and
screaming and yelling. And he had had her over his shoulder,
(12:20):
so she was screaming and kicking. He threw her in
the truck and then he almost ran over me. What
did the truck look like? All I know is it
was a black truck because I was twelve years old.
But I can remember like it was yesterday. I've had
nightmares about it. Ever, what did he look like? He
(12:45):
was a white man, and I was maybe a hundred
forty ft to eighty feet from him, so I couldn't
tell you what he looked like. But I and I
could tell he was white. And and do you recall
what he had on? He had a pants and shirt,
but I, I mean, I don't other than that, I
(13:07):
just looked long pants and a shirt. And I remember
because um, I looked at somebody that was walking with me,
and I said, did you just say that? And when
I heard her screaming yell, and I said, oh, somebody
has done got in trouble. And I mean he almost
(13:30):
like I said, he I must have fell because I
got up. Was when I did. I accustomed as he
went by me, but he went out. Did you think
that was her father? I didn't know. I just thought
it was I didn't know because I didn't know Debbie myself.
I had not had had met her or anything like that.
(13:52):
Is the way I found out about it was the
next day I had went to the little store that
was in the marryat a place and her brother there
was handing out flyers asking if anybody had seen anything
or hurt anything. And back then I told him that
I would talk to somebody because there was no other
(14:13):
way he would have been able to get out except
could go if he I lived on Fourth Street, and
if he went around Fourth Street, he would still hit
furber On Street. If he had went straight, he would
hit further on Street. I had another girl with me
is because we were taking her clothes to the launder
back and I mean, I don't I don't know what
(14:33):
happened was her because back then seeing that the Tectis
says she was just I don't know, I don't know,
you know, I don't know what was going on with her.
But then I saw her later on, and I mean
she had turned into an alcoholic. So you know, that's
been thirty years ago at the time. Did you ever
(14:54):
get to talk to police? Detective came to my house
when I lived on Fourth Street, and that was the
last thing I heard anything. I mean, did you speak
to them from there on? I didn't hear anything else.
Did you tell the detectives what you saw? Yes? And
that was then, and then you never heard anything else
about it. Hold on just a moment before we hear
(15:16):
more of what is the state's single most important witness
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specialists are standing by. I want to go back to
the state's single most important witness as of right now. Listen, Sandra,
(18:09):
you said that over these years you have had one
nightmare after the next about this incident. What do you
dream about? I was a street kid back then, and uh,
I mean I was that year. I would have been
thirteen years old, but my life had been really turned
upside down. Was my mom and dad getting divorced. And
(18:33):
I was just mean. I was just really really mean
back then. I was. I really was mean, And I
mean I've thought about this for forty four years, you know,
and I always wondered where she was buried at The
detective next told me, and so I want to go
out and visit her grave and tell her I'm sorry
(18:53):
because if it had been just a few minutes later,
I had been both cider. So what is your night
mayor repeat, what is the bad dreaming have? It's this
dream about her and the things that she has had
went through. The man who's done it. I can't see
(19:14):
his face, but I can see him, you know, his
face is It's like his face is black. But I
can't he would a sun. I wouldn't say he was skinny.
He was a meeting him built, maybe even a little
bit chunky. I couldn't tell because of the shirt. But
it just, um, it's just about her. I mean, she
(19:37):
was an angel and they should not have happened for her.
To Detective Morris Knicks, Cobb County Cole Case Unit, who's
made solving the disappearance of Debbie Randall his mission, what
do you make of Sandra's eyewitness account? What do you
think about that? Morris? I find we had other witnesses said.
(20:01):
I told my sister about a black truck being outside
and wondered what that black cruk was doing there, And
sure enough, Sandra told me immediately it was a black truck.
I saw a black truck. And I'm not a psychiatrist,
I'm not a trichologist, but it was obvious to me
talking to Sandra, who was a street kid, by her
own admission, she really was having a hard time trying
(20:24):
to understand what a sweet, innocent little girl like Debbie
once she was taken and not her and she really
has a struggle with that, and she was very credible
in vericon, Sue, let's figure out what we can do, detective,
next to corroborate or um destroy, disprove what she's saying.
(20:49):
We know that a box of detergent was later found
right there where the witness Sandra says it happened. In
my mind, that's some corroboration. Also, you mentioned that another
witness reported residents in the area I think stated there
was a dark pickup truck in the area around the
time Debbie disappears. Is that right correct? It was actually
(21:13):
a girl that was in the laundry mat with Debbie,
and when she went in, she told her older sister,
there's a black truck outside, and her sister told her,
will you know, mind your own business and you know,
do laundry, and so she said, I just kind of
forgot about it. And so we were looking at this
idea of a black truck, and sure enough, Sandra said,
(21:35):
who was a black truck? So you've got really three witnesses.
You've got the little girl, her sister, and Sandra. As
my understanding, some residents had seen it earlier. But are
you saying it's part right out right outside the laundry map?
She just said outside. She said it was outside. And
so there is a little bit. It's kind of hard
(21:56):
to fame, but what some people would call the front
of the people would all the side of the building. Um.
And but we had always looked at this idea of
a black truck. We know a little bit more about
the black truck. The pickup truck was said to have
driven right along first strate and then stop in front
of Debbie Randall's home, then backed up and turned into
(22:19):
a parking area beside the road where the detergent was found.
So there must have been some kind of intersection right
there there got a black truck. M hmm. Okay, that
narrows it down a little bit. Also, did anybody get
any idea of who any any even fleeting look at
(22:39):
who was driving the truck? Detective Knicks, No, Sandra was
the only person that we have been able to find
that that's really we think so the so Detective Morrison
Nick's based on what Sandra said, we're looking for a
white male, medium build, long pants and a shirt who
was driving that black pickup truck. And Debbie Randall was fighting.
(23:00):
She was kicking and clawing and pumping her fist. She
did not want to go after she disappeared that night.
What happened that night, Detective Nix? Uh, that night, of course,
when she didn't return, you know, when she wasn't found. Um,
that's when they obviously called the police department. And um,
(23:24):
what time do they call police? I think it was
promptly around eight o'clock. Eight. Wow, that's pretty fastly, Egan,
because she's leaving the laundry mat at seven seven thirty,
she's walking home, she gets abducted by this white mall
in a black pickup and all that's probably going down
around seven forty. By eight thirty police are are called.
(23:49):
A nine one one call has been made. That's less
than an hourly nine year old little girl, I mean,
and I think it's kind of awesome that they actually
started looking that fast, and you know, instead of labeling
her runaway or you know, just out playing her high. Well,
the fact of the detergent, What if any other clues
did you find at the same detective next other than
that's about it. Did you get the direction the direction
(24:12):
of vehicle was headed. There was two different ways that
could have gone. The way that we thought he most
likely went is the way that Sandra said the truck went.
Um which if you know anything about Cobb County and
you know we're lucky, um lacked is we think you
went up of what it cla story at the time.
Then uh, south cop got in front of bloke. Well
(24:35):
this is what I know. Four days later then Captain
Elliott reports police had checked out over three hundred phone
tips on Debbie's disappearance, and of course a lot of
crank calls. There were two ransom calls reported freaks pervs
asking for ransom that did not have Debbie, and they
(24:57):
were followed through. The people were caught. They didn't have Debbie.
They were just trying to get money. Then Detective Morris knicks,
there is a break in the case. Debbie's body is found.
What happened, Yeah, they formed a search committee and thousands
of people showed up. It had it had scared the
(25:18):
residents and people were angry. But they formed church committees
and beat a lot of students from Southern Tech volunteered
and they divided them up and sent them over to
um different areas. And it was a huge group, Detective
nixt I mean there were boy Scout groups, Army groups,
riding in motorcycle clubs, um all sorts of civic clubs
(25:42):
like the Rotary and Chambers of Commerce. Over five thousand
volunteers joined in the search. The headquarters placed HQ divided
Cobb County into marked areas and assigned each group an area.
Helicopters eving came in from Dobbin's Air Force Base to
help find Debbie randall Uh. There were a deluge of
(26:06):
offers of aid and Cobb County Police took everybody up
on it. And then comes Friday, January, the Mariatta Daily
Journal runs an editorial urging all Cobb County ins to
cooperate with Operation Debbie. It was foggy and rainy that
(26:27):
day when the largest search party ever to assemble in
Cobb County set out to look for Debbie, up to
five thousand people. What happened, Detective next I warned the students.
Mike han Um was walking into the woods at Powis
Ferry Road and he was with a fraternity group from
(26:49):
did you say Southern Tech? Southern Tech? And he noticed
that there seemed to be trail marks, the glass was unusual,
the weeds were different. So out of curiosity, being a
bright guy, he followed it and he said he saw
her body. And he said, I just froze. I did
not want to get close, and he stopped. I think
(27:13):
he told me about twenty five yards away, and he said,
I just knew it was her, obviously, and uh, at
that point the discovery was made. Detective next, who did
he call out to when he saw Debby's body? He
called one of his fraternity brothers who were down the road,
and Uh, it shook him to his core. And at
(27:39):
this time, Mike was also a Vietnam VETT. He had
already been to Vietnam prior to college. And so he said,
even this just shook me up. And I can see why.
Detective next, please described the way nine year old Debbie's
body was found. Uh, she had on her coat he
(27:59):
had and zipped up to her chin. Um. It was
obvious that Uh, it looked like she had been redressed
in a hurry, and she had been laying out in
the weather. It had been raining Um, she had, you know,
(28:22):
apparently been put there. That was not the scene of
a crime. She had been transported there. You say her
coat was zipped up to her chin, and she was
redressed in a hurry. Why do you say nine year
old Debbie Randall had been redressed in a hurry. We
felt that this had happened, Um, in a hurry because
(28:43):
she was disarrayed, obviously from lading out in the weather
in the woods. It was just very disarranged. Um, she
still had her socks on, her shoes were gone. Apparently
he had never removed her socks. Um, she had her
underwear own disarrayed, but it was on. And when you
(29:07):
say disarrayed, what do you mean by that? Just very
abnormal the way you would wear your clothes. Um. Kind
of hard to describe. What was the cause of death, strangulation.
She had been rudely assaulted. Uh. The Emmy's office said
that had he not strangled her, she would probably bled
(29:31):
to death. And it's just a horrific, horrific thought, the
thought of that child, nine year old Debbie Randall. It's
the age of my children being strangled dead, her clothes
hastily roughly put back on her body. The little girl
(29:55):
bleeding from a brutal sex attack, so ad, so badly
that the medical examiner believes she would have bled out
our body left there in the woods. It's almost more
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Lee Egan, investigative reporter with Crime online dot com and
Cold Case Unit investigator Detective Morris Nick Morris. When her
body was discovered, what clues, what evidence, if any, were
(32:10):
found on and around her body. They took soil samples
from her coat and from her clothes, and the soil
samples were very unique and these soil samples were sent
to the FBI, and the FBI analyze these soil sand samples,
(32:32):
and we, I say we they managed to match these
at a place called Dixie Casting Stone, which was about
quarter mile down the road from where she was found.
And after we started looking at this, we realized that
this was a very secluded place. Um, it was something
(32:57):
you would not unless you knew it was there. You
would not. You mean the company, the company, what's the
name of it again, Dixie cast and Stone. What is that?
What I mean? What is that? They make concrete forms?
What is that? Concrete forms? Um? They usually my thinking
on on bridges and roads and things of that nature.
(33:21):
I'm glad you said that. I thought you meant like
bird baths and columns. Okay, so you mean giant industrial forms.
And since way off the road and you'd have to
know it was there, you would have to know it
was there, Nancy. In high school, I went up down
Powers Through Road and moves times. I never knew it
was there. When they said it was on Powers three Road,
(33:42):
I racked my brain trying to figure out where where
is it. It was a dirt drive at the time
that went off of the road. I think to its
apartment complex there. Now I'm with you on this, Detective next,
I've gone up and down powers Ferry Road. In fact,
my husband once lived off powers Ferry Road many many
(34:02):
years ago, and I did not know this was there either.
And I'm very curious, Detective Nixt, because this is very
um advanced science in crime scene analysis. You took soil
off her body, which had to be on her clothes,
(34:23):
which had to be on her clothes or skin or hair,
and you got a soil sample, and then you somehow
tracked it back to Dixie cast in Stone. Now, what
about that soil sample made it different from the dirt
around her, the the what the ingredients and cement or what.
(34:47):
We were told that this particular it was actually sand.
This particular type of sand came from the Mississippi Louisiana area, UM,
and that's what made it unique. And I talked to
the owner of the company. They are still in business,
or not at that location, but they're still in business.
(35:09):
And I talked to his son and he said, oh yeah,
He said, you could have driven around behind those sand
pits in the back and nobody would have ever heard you.
But you would have had it was there. You would
have had to known that you could go black there,
and you would not be discovered. Where on her body
(35:30):
was the soil sample found? Was it on her clothes,
her skin, her vagina, her hair? Where was it predominant?
Came up for clothes, her clothes. That says to me
he took her out of the vehicle and actually assaulted
her there on the ground for her clothes. But interesting
(35:52):
if it didn't come off her body, very interesting, But
it tells me, like you said, the location where her
body was found was a tertiary crime scene. You've got
the car, it's primary, the kidnapping, this sex assault would
be there behind Dixie cast and stone because that soil
(36:15):
that's sand from the Louisiana or Mississippi area would be
nowhere else other than they're making the cement. And then
the tertiary scene, of course, is the disposal of the body.
Now who would know that. I'm just kind of overwhelmed
that you have managed to piece those puzzle, those pieces
(36:38):
of the puzzle together. I assume there was no surveillance video? Correct? Correct? Yeah? Man?
Was there a security watchman? No? Mm hmmm? And was
it locked? I mean could you get in and out?
There was no gate? And no, you could just drive
down there and there was really nothing. There's nothing to
(36:59):
steal then you could do and unless you wanted to
steal some sand, there's nothing to take. Okay, let me
let me think. Let me think. What else did we
learn from the body or anything around the body? Was
anything left behind a sock, um, d na um, anything
(37:19):
anything at all? A cigarette wrapper, a cigarette anything. The
only thing that we found, and I said we they
found at that time when they did find a pair
of glasses, Um, we had glasses. It was it was
next to the body. So you made adult reading glasses
(37:41):
or sunglasses or what. Yeah, they were beating glasses reading glasses. Huh.
And I assumed that they were analyzed to determine what
was the prescription for them, and then various uh tometrists
were checked to find out who would field it. We
are working on that. So that was not done at
(38:05):
the time. Is that correct? No, No, it was not
done at the time. That's a boo boo. But let's
be happy about the sand. Uh. So the glasses were
found by her body or at Dixie Casting Stone, by
her body, by her body? Anything else? Was there a
rag she had? Um she had in charty ragon or
(38:29):
vaginal area? Um, we be need that he did that
because she was bleeding profusely and he did not want
her to bleed in her truck. I believe that's why
he did that. Hold on, I'm just trying to get
this in my head. So that would have been that
(38:50):
would have occurred while she was alive, because once she
was dead, the nine year old little girl, the bleeding
wouldly have stopped because your heart is no longer pumping
blood through your body. So while she is alive, this
nine year old girl, the purp stuff's a rag in
(39:14):
her to stop the bleeding. Your belief is so she
wouldn't bleed on his car. I believe that's why he
did it. Yeah, oh man, this is a death penalty
case if there ever was one. So then he puts
her underwear and clothes back on over that. Correct, she
(39:37):
puts her underwear over the rag. Okay, let me let
me think. Let me think. So you've got the rag.
What kind of a rag was it? Was it a
bath wash cloth? Was it an industrial rag? Was one
of those things you wash your car with? What was it?
It was a pointed piece of cloth? Um? It was dirty, um,
(40:00):
greasy um. That makes me also think that probably it
came out of a vehicle that, um, you know, possible
work vehicles, like a machinery rag. No, it was a
machinery rag. It was just I don't know if it
came from a gown or from a sheet. Um. I've
(40:23):
never had watched an old cleaning like somebody tore it
apart like um, you know, to use as a dust
cloth or something, and then they used it applied to
like black grease for machineries. That what you're saying. And
I have often wondered, and I still wonder if he
(40:44):
thought she was dead, didn't realize she wasn't. And because
he stops like a quarter I mean just right down
the road and he takes her out in the woods.
And I think that's why I think possibly worked there,
because he knew that if he left the body that
(41:05):
it might come right back to him, that they would
look at im very very very clever detective knicks. So
he either worked there or had worked there, or knew
someone that worked there to know about it. The location,
and because a random killer just leaves the body, there
(41:26):
is no transference to a third location. You killed the person,
you either rob or assault the person and leave the
body and high tell it. Okay, so this means a
cover up. But why a cover up? Well, let me think.
Let me think about this rag. It was torn out
(41:46):
of a bigger piece of material, like a sheet or
a towel. You said it was printed. What was the print? Um?
It had just um little designs, kind of hard to describe.
I had little designs on it, Um designs of what nature? Flowers, stripes,
(42:07):
polka dots, paisley What if I it was flowers? Flowers, flowers? Okay,
let me just tell you right there, that came from
a woman, That came from a home, because well, not necessarily,
that could have come from anybody. But what guy is
going to go out and buy sheets with flowers on him? Nobody?
(42:29):
I know, maybe, but that indicates to me it came
from a family home. Um, it didn't come from a hotel.
Came from a family home where a woman was or
had been present at some point. All right, And you're
saying you think it was part of a sheet or
part of what possibly part of a sheet, a part
(42:51):
of a gown. Um, it was very dirty and um
that that's what we had on that. And what about DNA?
Forget the ride, what about DNA Okay, here, here's where
it gets interesting. Um, when we first got this case,
(43:14):
when we first looked at it, Um, that's of course
what we would know, is there anything? And we were
telling nope, it's been too long, we won't so well,
let's just try let's just give it a show. What
made you try it after all that time? Honestly it
was it was just let's try anything at this point,
even if it's not really rational, Let's try it anyway.
(43:37):
And John Dog was the case administrator or a lead
detective with our unit when said, John, let's let's contact
the DNA people and just see if we've got a chance.
So we sent it in and um, they did get
a DNA profile even after all these years, because Mary
(43:58):
had a police department had preserved that evidence. Thank goodness.
Hold all right, right there, I want to say something
all we ever hear about is oh so and so
lost the evidence. They destroyed the evidence. They did this,
They messed up the evidence, they touched it, they contaminated it.
That is abnormal. That is the aberration that normally doesn't happen.
(44:23):
And because Cobb County preserved the evidence, you submitted this
for a DNA profile, you know the public that you
know you see it on TV. You only it's like
you don't call the cable company to say, hey, you
guys did an awesome job today because I gotta watch murder.
She wrote, awesome. You only call when you're angry or
(44:47):
it's not working right. So it's just like the news.
You see the bad news because you don't want to
hear Oh, it's a sunny, beautiful day outside headline. No,
So what people hear about are the aberrations of when
evidence gets screwed up up or somebody intentionally messes up
or negligently messes it up. The norm is it's not
(45:08):
messed up now, thank you Heaven, because this evidence was preserved. Now,
tell me about what happens when you decide to try
to get a match. We send in the cloth the underwear. Um,
we got a DNA profile from the perpetrator, from the perpetrator,
(45:30):
not from nine year old Debby from the killer. Okay,
go ahead, correct, we've got it from the perpetrator of
the underwear. And um, and I assume it's not blooded semen. Correct.
And John called me and said, we got we got
a profile. Oh my stars, hold on just a minute,
detective next. Every time I talked to you, something you
(45:53):
say gives me chills. And right now I've got him.
I can just see you pulling over and they say,
we gotta profile. I just it's kind of hard to describe. Um,
I was actualing my way to a fishing tournament lake
you follow, and um, I don't think my mind ever
(46:14):
lived that second the whole time I was there. So
I'm thinking, Okay, we were gonna run this through uh
a database now from a database, and we're gonna get
a hit, and this is, you know, case closed. Well,
we didn't get a hit, and there's a lot of speculation.
(46:38):
And one thing I'd like to say, Nancy, is I
know this long shot. I know it is. I know
that the probabilities are not good but possible. And people
say to me, why don't you let it go? You
know it's been years. If he's alive, he's you know,
(46:59):
and tell them miss it. For me, this is no
longer about conviction as much as it is closure. Her
mama wants to know before she dies who killed her baby.
And for me, if we get a conviction, great, But
even if he's dead, even if he's buried, somewhere. I
(47:20):
want to know who he is and I'm absolutely committed
to that even if I never get a conviction. Detective
Morris Knicks, Cobb County Cold Case Unit. I'm with you, Detective.
I want to know who he is and I want
to know that he's headed where he belongs, which is hell.
(47:43):
The case goes on in the search for justice for
nine year old Debbie Randall Tipline. Anyone with information please
call Cobb County Coal Case Unit seven seven zero five
to eight three three to seven, seven zero five to
(48:03):
eight three oh three two. Detective Morris Nicks, Thank you friend,
Thank you Nancy for all you do. Thank you very much.
I want to take this moment and thank our partner
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I want to thank super Beats for being with us today,
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joining us and listening today. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
Channel one thirty two. Who killed Deborah Lynn Randall? How
do you do something that is a liberal? Randall? From
January thirteen, nineteen seventy two. Debby was nine years old
when she vanished. It's been more than forty three years.
Group of retired detectives volunteering their time, determined to bring
(00:27):
her family answer to the beautiful kid duclugative picture and
you say the amishs. Detective Nicks is part of a
rare group of retired police officers to specialize in solving
Cop Counties cold cases. If you investigator, feel detective for
peel cop and that's what you moved forward that phone call,
that family saying sit down with the best good means
for you. I give in your buying your back or
(00:49):
find out her work before there for it. We haven't
forgotten and we're not going to give up. It was
a cold, cold winter's night and a nine year old
little girl, debb Lynn Randall. Debbie Lynn Randall steps out
of a laundry mat to head back home. She's only
a half a block away from her family's home. She's
(01:11):
got with her the detergent. They've been doing their family laundry,
and who would be worried just a half a block
from home, not even a whole block from the laundry mat,
walking by herself. She never made it home. This nine
year old little girl never seen alive again. I Nancy Grace,
(01:37):
this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
a nine year old little girl and trusted just to
walk a few doors. I can remember at that age
we didn't have a washer and dryer either, and we
would have to drive to the laundry mat. And we
also did it on Sundays on our way to evening services.
I remember it like it was yesterday. And then coming
(01:59):
home and getting into the warm sheets and the towels
and hiding under them and playing in them until they
weren't warm anymore. That's what you do when you're nine
years old. You don't end up missing and murdered. That's
what happened to Debbie. And joining me right now special
guests from the Cobb County Coal Case Unit, Detective Morris Nis,
(02:22):
whose mission has been finding the truth of what happened
to nine year old Debbie, also with me Crime Online
reporter Lee Eagan to both of you. Thank you for
being with us. I wanted to go back to that evening, cold, cold, cold,
(02:42):
really frigid winter night. Let's start at the beginning to
Detective Morris Nicks again, thank you for being with us.
Let's start with her leaving the house and her trip
to the laundry. Matt Morris, start and welcome. Thank you.
Nei um. A lot of people have asked me why
(03:03):
was a nine year old there alone? And I explained
to him this was a gathering place for particularly the
little girls, where they will get together at the lawn
room matte and play with her barbed dolls and trade
clothes and things that you know nine year old girls do.
She was within sight of where she lived, so we
just across the street, and so it really wasn't that unusual.
(03:28):
Detective Morris Knicks, Hold on one moment, you're telling me
something I didn't know. I've been saying half a block
ever since I started researching this case. Are you saying
it's more like across the street? Correct? It was probably
about s whoa seventy five ft that is just basically
across the street. Okay, See that puts it in a
(03:49):
whole different light because While I understood the parents letting
her walk a half a block by herself, I always
thought why did they do that? But that would be
like most people saying, hey, can you run next door
and take this to the neighbor. And you know, Marris,
you knew, you know, I grew up in rural Georgia
(04:10):
and we would go outside and play and play and play,
and finally come home when it started getting dark. Nobody
thought a thing about it. When the front porch light
came on, you knew it was time to go on.
That's right. Or either I would hear my parents wayne
the distance, blowing the car horn right here, the chimes
in the church steeple, and go, oh six o'clock. Better go.
(04:31):
I mean, we could go where ever we wanted to,
as long as we've done her homework. Now, let me
get back to the seat, Mars. After all of our
discussions about Debbie, I didn't get this. This is an
important fact. So it's just across the street, all right,
Sorry to slow you down, Go ahead, detective. Okay, Well,
she was at lunder matt playing with her friends. I
interviewed someone who told me at one point said Debbie
(04:55):
walked out the door said, you know, see you later, goodbye.
I gotta go, she said. I wanted to go with her,
but my older sister said, no, you're gonna stay here
and help me full close wow with me. Lea Egan,
investigative reporter with Crime Online dot Com Lee, when I
look back and I've heard this from countless I can't
even count them crime victims, families or friends. If only
(05:19):
I had, if he had, if she had, if ten
minutes this way, ten minutes that way, it's it can
torture you, Leagan thinking what if I run into that?
A lot on these stories, there's always usually every story
has at least one person that was like, only I
could have said this to her or him, just got
them to hold back for a few minutes. And it's
(05:41):
it's it's not their fault. I mean, nobody knew. No.
I just feel so bad about it. And her parents
had probably tortured themselves about letting her go across the street.
This little girl was a happy girl, a third grade
student at Pine Forest Elementary, just nine years old. You know, guys,
you know that's the age of the twins. Just nine
years old. She was walking that to her first street
(06:07):
home there at mary Atta place. She had been at
the Duds and SuDS co Op laundry matt. She absolutely
got there, she was spotted, she was identified. There were
other little girls there that Sunday evening and they were
just as Detective Morris Nick said, exchanging doll close. They
all brought their dolls and that funny a lot of
(06:29):
times I can remember. She doesn't do it now, but
when Lucy would go to the playground, she'd take a
doll and if there were other girls there, they would
play with the dolls. So when she went to go
do the laundry, she took her dolls. So what do
we know about when she left Detective Nick's she left
about seven? The best we can tell, she left about seven. Um,
(06:50):
wait a minute, now, hold on. She I understand that
the stepdad, Robert Hooker, took her to the laundry matt
around seven with a load of laundry and he left
her there with two bucks. And when he last saw her,
according to the reports I've read, she was putting clothes
in the washing machine when her stepdad left. Now is
(07:10):
that correct? Yes, that's that's approximate. Um, we believe possibly
he a little bit earlier and that she actually walked
out about seven fifteen, seven twenty from what we're able
to put together. You know, it also changes things, Detective Nick,
because for a moment there, I thought she had walked
over across the street with the laundry herself. No, her stepdad,
(07:32):
who has is not a part of this investigation. He
had an alibi for that whole time because you always
look at the dad and stepdad first, and carry the
mom's boyfriend. But he walked her over there, which makes
it it seemed even more safe, and left her with
two bucks, the laundry, and the clothes, I mean, the detergent. Okay,
(07:53):
so she's there thirty minutes, then she leaves. All right,
what happens then, Well, this is where it starts to
we have to start sorting things out. Um. I have
one witness that said I saw her across the street,
and the witness said, I think someone called out to her.
She recognized that person, turned around and came back towards them, which,
(08:17):
of course gives you one theory. Someone else said, no, well, yeah,
hold on, let's follow that to its logical conclusion. When
you say it gives you one theory, Not all of
us are cold case Unit detectives. So when you say
that's one theory, what you mean is it's somebody she
knows that could call her name out, or they could
have said hey, little girl, but they could have also
(08:38):
used her name. To the witness, say they used her name,
did not say that. So she leaves. Let's just estimate,
and she leaves with the doll and the box of
detergent or just the detergent. She just had the detergent.
According according to the reports, she may have had the doll,
but there's no mention of the dogs. And I do
(09:00):
the same thing, what happened to the dog? Because you
know that dog could be sitting on some guy's shelf
right now? You know that. You know how killers keep
mementos and treasures like people's underwear or their their driver's
license or a ticket stub like you put in your
photo album, your treasure book, your scrap book. They keep
(09:20):
scrap books in essence of their murder victims. So I
wonder what happened to the doll? Okay, so somebody sees
her leaving. We can place that around seven twenty that
Sunday night, going across the street. We're positive she left
the laundry. Matt right, Okay, so then what happens and
then she vanishes? Um. I had one witness that said,
(09:45):
I think I don't think she ever went across the street,
and I had another one to tell them. I said, yes,
she crossed the street, so she had to have come back.
And of course the laundry matters, you know, Nancy is
it's a noisy place. You've got wash shoes and dwighters running.
And so we did not know if this was just
a quick abduction. And then we talked to Sandra, who
(10:08):
we give a lot of credibility of Sandra, and she says,
oh no, she was kicking and screaming. He threw her
over the shoulder and threw her in the car. And
Sandra resolved for us to this point, the fact that
whoever did this was alone just one moment. And guess
(10:28):
who we are talking to now. Take a listen to
possibly the only eyewitness to the kidnap of nine year
old Debbie Randall. Sandra, what made you decide to come
forward this much later? My sister worked for Cobb County Gale,
(10:48):
and she told me the case had been reopened, and
I thought it had been closed all a long time ago,
and I told her I saw it happened, and she said, well,
somebody might be calling union in touch with you, and
I said okay. And that's when she was talking to
a detective and I called her one day and she said, well,
(11:12):
this is going to that and she put him on
the phone and he asked me if I would be
willing to talk to detective next and from their own
as as just connection to you, Santra. I know it
was a while back, but please put your mind back
to the evening Debbie disappeared. What did you observe lady
(11:37):
might get her where they thought they got hurt. There
was like a playground that was behind the law dramat
and also a place there where you would go and
get Line Morris to cut people's grass. And there was
a tree right there beside the laundromat where there was
no window. Is there anything on the side. I've seen
(11:58):
this black pick up up stop. The driver got out,
left this door open, let's the truck running. He ran.
He went over to Debbie. He grabbed her and she
was kicking her feet and kicking, kicking real hard and
screaming and yelling. And he had had her over his shoulder,
(12:20):
so she was screaming and kicking. He threw her in
the truck and then he almost ran over me. What
did the truck look like? All I know is it
was a black truck because I was twelve years old.
But I can remember like it was yesterday. I've had
nightmares about it. Ever, what did he look like? He
(12:45):
was a white man, and I was maybe a hundred
forty ft to eighty feet from him, so I couldn't
tell you what he looked like. But I and I
could tell he was white. And and do you recall
what he had on? He had a pants and shirt,
but I, I mean, I don't other than that, I
(13:07):
just looked long pants and a shirt. And I remember
because um, I looked at somebody that was walking with me,
and I said, did you just say that? And when
I heard her screaming yell, and I said, oh, somebody
has done got in trouble. And I mean he almost
(13:30):
like I said, he I must have fell because I
got up. Was when I did. I accustomed as he
went by me, but he went out. Did you think
that was her father? I didn't know. I just thought
it was I didn't know because I didn't know Debbie myself.
I had not had had met her or anything like that.
(13:52):
Is the way I found out about it was the
next day I had went to the little store that
was in the marryat a place and her brother there
was handing out flyers asking if anybody had seen anything
or hurt anything. And back then I told him that
I would talk to somebody because there was no other
(14:13):
way he would have been able to get out except
could go if he I lived on Fourth Street, and
if he went around Fourth Street, he would still hit
furber On Street. If he had went straight, he would
hit further on Street. I had another girl with me
is because we were taking her clothes to the launder
back and I mean, I don't I don't know what
(14:33):
happened was her because back then seeing that the Tectis
says she was just I don't know, I don't know,
you know, I don't know what was going on with her.
But then I saw her later on, and I mean
she had turned into an alcoholic. So you know, that's
been thirty years ago at the time. Did you ever
(14:54):
get to talk to police? Detective came to my house
when I lived on Fourth Street, and that was the
last thing I heard anything. I mean, did you speak
to them from there on? I didn't hear anything else.
Did you tell the detectives what you saw? Yes? And
that was then, and then you never heard anything else
about it. Hold on just a moment before we hear
(15:16):
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your cell. Dial pound to fifty and say grace. Our
specialists are standing by. I want to go back to
the state's single most important witness as of right now. Listen, Sandra,
(18:09):
you said that over these years you have had one
nightmare after the next about this incident. What do you
dream about? I was a street kid back then, and uh,
I mean I was that year. I would have been
thirteen years old, but my life had been really turned
upside down. Was my mom and dad getting divorced. And
(18:33):
I was just mean. I was just really really mean
back then. I was. I really was mean, And I
mean I've thought about this for forty four years, you know,
and I always wondered where she was buried at The
detective next told me, and so I want to go
out and visit her grave and tell her I'm sorry
(18:53):
because if it had been just a few minutes later,
I had been both cider. So what is your night
mayor repeat, what is the bad dreaming have? It's this
dream about her and the things that she has had
went through. The man who's done it. I can't see
(19:14):
his face, but I can see him, you know, his
face is It's like his face is black. But I
can't he would a sun. I wouldn't say he was skinny.
He was a meeting him built, maybe even a little
bit chunky. I couldn't tell because of the shirt. But
it just, um, it's just about her. I mean, she
(19:37):
was an angel and they should not have happened for her.
To Detective Morris Knicks, Cobb County Cole Case Unit, who's
made solving the disappearance of Debbie Randall his mission, what
do you make of Sandra's eyewitness account? What do you
think about that? Morris? I find we had other witnesses said.
(20:01):
I told my sister about a black truck being outside
and wondered what that black cruk was doing there, And
sure enough, Sandra told me immediately it was a black truck.
I saw a black truck. And I'm not a psychiatrist,
I'm not a trichologist, but it was obvious to me
talking to Sandra, who was a street kid, by her
own admission, she really was having a hard time trying
(20:24):
to understand what a sweet, innocent little girl like Debbie
once she was taken and not her and she really
has a struggle with that, and she was very credible
in vericon, Sue, let's figure out what we can do, detective,
next to corroborate or um destroy, disprove what she's saying.
(20:49):
We know that a box of detergent was later found
right there where the witness Sandra says it happened. In
my mind, that's some corroboration. Also, you mentioned that another
witness reported residents in the area I think stated there
was a dark pickup truck in the area around the
time Debbie disappears. Is that right correct? It was actually
(21:13):
a girl that was in the laundry mat with Debbie,
and when she went in, she told her older sister,
there's a black truck outside, and her sister told her,
will you know, mind your own business and you know,
do laundry, and so she said, I just kind of
forgot about it. And so we were looking at this
idea of a black truck, and sure enough, Sandra said,
(21:35):
who was a black truck? So you've got really three witnesses.
You've got the little girl, her sister, and Sandra. As
my understanding, some residents had seen it earlier. But are
you saying it's part right out right outside the laundry map?
She just said outside. She said it was outside. And
so there is a little bit. It's kind of hard
(21:56):
to fame, but what some people would call the front
of the people would all the side of the building. Um.
And but we had always looked at this idea of
a black truck. We know a little bit more about
the black truck. The pickup truck was said to have
driven right along first strate and then stop in front
of Debbie Randall's home, then backed up and turned into
(22:19):
a parking area beside the road where the detergent was found.
So there must have been some kind of intersection right
there there got a black truck. M hmm. Okay, that
narrows it down a little bit. Also, did anybody get
any idea of who any any even fleeting look at
(22:39):
who was driving the truck? Detective Knicks, No, Sandra was
the only person that we have been able to find
that that's really we think so the so Detective Morrison
Nick's based on what Sandra said, we're looking for a
white male, medium build, long pants and a shirt who
was driving that black pickup truck. And Debbie Randall was fighting.
(23:00):
She was kicking and clawing and pumping her fist. She
did not want to go after she disappeared that night.
What happened that night, Detective Nix? Uh, that night, of course,
when she didn't return, you know, when she wasn't found. Um,
that's when they obviously called the police department. And um,
(23:24):
what time do they call police? I think it was
promptly around eight o'clock. Eight. Wow, that's pretty fastly, Egan,
because she's leaving the laundry mat at seven seven thirty,
she's walking home, she gets abducted by this white mall
in a black pickup and all that's probably going down
around seven forty. By eight thirty police are are called.
(23:49):
A nine one one call has been made. That's less
than an hourly nine year old little girl, I mean,
and I think it's kind of awesome that they actually
started looking that fast, and you know, instead of labeling
her runaway or you know, just out playing her high. Well,
the fact of the detergent, What if any other clues
did you find at the same detective next other than
that's about it. Did you get the direction the direction
(24:12):
of vehicle was headed. There was two different ways that
could have gone. The way that we thought he most
likely went is the way that Sandra said the truck went.
Um which if you know anything about Cobb County and
you know we're lucky, um lacked is we think you
went up of what it cla story at the time.
Then uh, south cop got in front of bloke. Well
(24:35):
this is what I know. Four days later then Captain
Elliott reports police had checked out over three hundred phone
tips on Debbie's disappearance, and of course a lot of
crank calls. There were two ransom calls reported freaks pervs
asking for ransom that did not have Debbie, and they
(24:57):
were followed through. The people were caught. They didn't have Debbie.
They were just trying to get money. Then Detective Morris knicks,
there is a break in the case. Debbie's body is found.
What happened, Yeah, they formed a search committee and thousands
of people showed up. It had it had scared the
(25:18):
residents and people were angry. But they formed church committees
and beat a lot of students from Southern Tech volunteered
and they divided them up and sent them over to
um different areas. And it was a huge group, Detective
nixt I mean there were boy Scout groups, Army groups,
riding in motorcycle clubs, um all sorts of civic clubs
(25:42):
like the Rotary and Chambers of Commerce. Over five thousand
volunteers joined in the search. The headquarters placed HQ divided
Cobb County into marked areas and assigned each group an area.
Helicopters eving came in from Dobbin's Air Force Base to
help find Debbie randall Uh. There were a deluge of
(26:06):
offers of aid and Cobb County Police took everybody up
on it. And then comes Friday, January, the Mariatta Daily
Journal runs an editorial urging all Cobb County ins to
cooperate with Operation Debbie. It was foggy and rainy that
(26:27):
day when the largest search party ever to assemble in
Cobb County set out to look for Debbie, up to
five thousand people. What happened, Detective next I warned the students.
Mike han Um was walking into the woods at Powis
Ferry Road and he was with a fraternity group from
(26:49):
did you say Southern Tech? Southern Tech? And he noticed
that there seemed to be trail marks, the glass was unusual,
the weeds were different. So out of curiosity, being a
bright guy, he followed it and he said he saw
her body. And he said, I just froze. I did
not want to get close, and he stopped. I think
(27:13):
he told me about twenty five yards away, and he said,
I just knew it was her, obviously, and uh, at
that point the discovery was made. Detective next, who did
he call out to when he saw Debby's body? He
called one of his fraternity brothers who were down the road,
and Uh, it shook him to his core. And at
(27:39):
this time, Mike was also a Vietnam VETT. He had
already been to Vietnam prior to college. And so he said,
even this just shook me up. And I can see why.
Detective next, please described the way nine year old Debbie's
body was found. Uh, she had on her coat he
(27:59):
had and zipped up to her chin. Um. It was
obvious that Uh, it looked like she had been redressed
in a hurry, and she had been laying out in
the weather. It had been raining Um, she had, you know,
(28:22):
apparently been put there. That was not the scene of
a crime. She had been transported there. You say her
coat was zipped up to her chin, and she was
redressed in a hurry. Why do you say nine year
old Debbie Randall had been redressed in a hurry. We
felt that this had happened, Um, in a hurry because
(28:43):
she was disarrayed, obviously from lading out in the weather
in the woods. It was just very disarranged. Um, she
still had her socks on, her shoes were gone. Apparently
he had never removed her socks. Um, she had her
underwear own disarrayed, but it was on. And when you
(29:07):
say disarrayed, what do you mean by that? Just very
abnormal the way you would wear your clothes. Um. Kind
of hard to describe. What was the cause of death, strangulation.
She had been rudely assaulted. Uh. The Emmy's office said
that had he not strangled her, she would probably bled
(29:31):
to death. And it's just a horrific, horrific thought, the
thought of that child, nine year old Debbie Randall. It's
the age of my children being strangled dead, her clothes
hastily roughly put back on her body. The little girl
(29:55):
bleeding from a brutal sex attack, so ad, so badly
that the medical examiner believes she would have bled out
our body left there in the woods. It's almost more
than I can take in. I want to thank our
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Lee Egan, investigative reporter with Crime online dot com and
Cold Case Unit investigator Detective Morris Nick Morris. When her
body was discovered, what clues, what evidence, if any, were
(32:10):
found on and around her body. They took soil samples
from her coat and from her clothes, and the soil
samples were very unique and these soil samples were sent
to the FBI, and the FBI analyze these soil sand samples,
(32:32):
and we, I say we they managed to match these
at a place called Dixie Casting Stone, which was about
quarter mile down the road from where she was found.
And after we started looking at this, we realized that
this was a very secluded place. Um, it was something
(32:57):
you would not unless you knew it was there. You
would not. You mean the company, the company, what's the
name of it again, Dixie cast and Stone. What is that?
What I mean? What is that? They make concrete forms?
What is that? Concrete forms? Um? They usually my thinking
on on bridges and roads and things of that nature.
(33:21):
I'm glad you said that. I thought you meant like
bird baths and columns. Okay, so you mean giant industrial forms.
And since way off the road and you'd have to
know it was there, you would have to know it
was there, Nancy. In high school, I went up down
Powers Through Road and moves times. I never knew it
was there. When they said it was on Powers three Road,
(33:42):
I racked my brain trying to figure out where where
is it. It was a dirt drive at the time
that went off of the road. I think to its
apartment complex there. Now I'm with you on this, Detective next,
I've gone up and down powers Ferry Road. In fact,
my husband once lived off powers Ferry Road many many
(34:02):
years ago, and I did not know this was there either.
And I'm very curious, Detective Nixt, because this is very
um advanced science in crime scene analysis. You took soil
off her body, which had to be on her clothes,
(34:23):
which had to be on her clothes or skin or hair,
and you got a soil sample, and then you somehow
tracked it back to Dixie cast in Stone. Now, what
about that soil sample made it different from the dirt
around her, the the what the ingredients and cement or what.
(34:47):
We were told that this particular it was actually sand.
This particular type of sand came from the Mississippi Louisiana area, UM,
and that's what made it unique. And I talked to
the owner of the company. They are still in business,
or not at that location, but they're still in business.
(35:09):
And I talked to his son and he said, oh yeah,
He said, you could have driven around behind those sand
pits in the back and nobody would have ever heard you.
But you would have had it was there. You would
have had to known that you could go black there,
and you would not be discovered. Where on her body
(35:30):
was the soil sample found? Was it on her clothes,
her skin, her vagina, her hair? Where was it predominant?
Came up for clothes, her clothes. That says to me
he took her out of the vehicle and actually assaulted
her there on the ground for her clothes. But interesting
(35:52):
if it didn't come off her body, very interesting, But
it tells me, like you said, the location where her
body was found was a tertiary crime scene. You've got
the car, it's primary, the kidnapping, this sex assault would
be there behind Dixie cast and stone because that soil
(36:15):
that's sand from the Louisiana or Mississippi area would be
nowhere else other than they're making the cement. And then
the tertiary scene, of course, is the disposal of the body.
Now who would know that. I'm just kind of overwhelmed
that you have managed to piece those puzzle, those pieces
(36:38):
of the puzzle together. I assume there was no surveillance video? Correct? Correct? Yeah? Man?
Was there a security watchman? No? Mm hmmm? And was
it locked? I mean could you get in and out?
There was no gate? And no, you could just drive
down there and there was really nothing. There's nothing to
(36:59):
steal then you could do and unless you wanted to
steal some sand, there's nothing to take. Okay, let me
let me think. Let me think. What else did we
learn from the body or anything around the body? Was
anything left behind a sock, um, d na um, anything
(37:19):
anything at all? A cigarette wrapper, a cigarette anything. The
only thing that we found, and I said we they
found at that time when they did find a pair
of glasses, Um, we had glasses. It was it was
next to the body. So you made adult reading glasses
(37:41):
or sunglasses or what. Yeah, they were beating glasses reading glasses. Huh.
And I assumed that they were analyzed to determine what
was the prescription for them, and then various uh tometrists
were checked to find out who would field it. We
are working on that. So that was not done at
(38:05):
the time. Is that correct? No, No, it was not
done at the time. That's a boo boo. But let's
be happy about the sand. Uh. So the glasses were
found by her body or at Dixie Casting Stone, by
her body, by her body? Anything else? Was there a
rag she had? Um she had in charty ragon or
(38:29):
vaginal area? Um, we be need that he did that
because she was bleeding profusely and he did not want
her to bleed in her truck. I believe that's why
he did that. Hold on, I'm just trying to get
this in my head. So that would have been that
(38:50):
would have occurred while she was alive, because once she
was dead, the nine year old little girl, the bleeding
wouldly have stopped because your heart is no longer pumping
blood through your body. So while she is alive, this
nine year old girl, the purp stuff's a rag in
(39:14):
her to stop the bleeding. Your belief is so she
wouldn't bleed on his car. I believe that's why he
did it. Yeah, oh man, this is a death penalty
case if there ever was one. So then he puts
her underwear and clothes back on over that. Correct, she
(39:37):
puts her underwear over the rag. Okay, let me let
me think. Let me think. So you've got the rag.
What kind of a rag was it? Was it a
bath wash cloth? Was it an industrial rag? Was one
of those things you wash your car with? What was it?
It was a pointed piece of cloth? Um? It was dirty, um,
(40:00):
greasy um. That makes me also think that probably it
came out of a vehicle that, um, you know, possible
work vehicles, like a machinery rag. No, it was a
machinery rag. It was just I don't know if it
came from a gown or from a sheet. Um. I've
(40:23):
never had watched an old cleaning like somebody tore it
apart like um, you know, to use as a dust
cloth or something, and then they used it applied to
like black grease for machineries. That what you're saying. And
I have often wondered, and I still wonder if he
(40:44):
thought she was dead, didn't realize she wasn't. And because
he stops like a quarter I mean just right down
the road and he takes her out in the woods.
And I think that's why I think possibly worked there,
because he knew that if he left the body that
(41:05):
it might come right back to him, that they would
look at im very very very clever detective knicks. So
he either worked there or had worked there, or knew
someone that worked there to know about it. The location,
and because a random killer just leaves the body, there
(41:26):
is no transference to a third location. You killed the person,
you either rob or assault the person and leave the
body and high tell it. Okay, so this means a
cover up. But why a cover up? Well, let me think.
Let me think about this rag. It was torn out
(41:46):
of a bigger piece of material, like a sheet or
a towel. You said it was printed. What was the print? Um?
It had just um little designs, kind of hard to describe.
I had little designs on it, Um designs of what nature? Flowers, stripes,
(42:07):
polka dots, paisley What if I it was flowers? Flowers, flowers? Okay,
let me just tell you right there, that came from
a woman, That came from a home, because well, not necessarily,
that could have come from anybody. But what guy is
going to go out and buy sheets with flowers on him? Nobody?
(42:29):
I know, maybe, but that indicates to me it came
from a family home. Um, it didn't come from a hotel.
Came from a family home where a woman was or
had been present at some point. All right, And you're
saying you think it was part of a sheet or
part of what possibly part of a sheet, a part
(42:51):
of a gown. Um, it was very dirty and um
that that's what we had on that. And what about DNA?
Forget the ride, what about DNA Okay, here, here's where
it gets interesting. Um, when we first got this case,
(43:14):
when we first looked at it, Um, that's of course
what we would know, is there anything? And we were
telling nope, it's been too long, we won't so well,
let's just try let's just give it a show. What
made you try it after all that time? Honestly it
was it was just let's try anything at this point,
even if it's not really rational, Let's try it anyway.
(43:37):
And John Dog was the case administrator or a lead
detective with our unit when said, John, let's let's contact
the DNA people and just see if we've got a chance.
So we sent it in and um, they did get
a DNA profile even after all these years, because Mary
(43:58):
had a police department had preserved that evidence. Thank goodness.
Hold all right, right there, I want to say something
all we ever hear about is oh so and so
lost the evidence. They destroyed the evidence. They did this,
They messed up the evidence, they touched it, they contaminated it.
That is abnormal. That is the aberration that normally doesn't happen.
(44:23):
And because Cobb County preserved the evidence, you submitted this
for a DNA profile, you know the public that you
know you see it on TV. You only it's like
you don't call the cable company to say, hey, you
guys did an awesome job today because I gotta watch murder.
She wrote, awesome. You only call when you're angry or
(44:47):
it's not working right. So it's just like the news.
You see the bad news because you don't want to
hear Oh, it's a sunny, beautiful day outside headline. No,
So what people hear about are the aberrations of when
evidence gets screwed up up or somebody intentionally messes up
or negligently messes it up. The norm is it's not
(45:08):
messed up now, thank you Heaven, because this evidence was preserved. Now,
tell me about what happens when you decide to try
to get a match. We send in the cloth the underwear. Um,
we got a DNA profile from the perpetrator, from the perpetrator,
(45:30):
not from nine year old Debby from the killer. Okay,
go ahead, correct, we've got it from the perpetrator of
the underwear. And um, and I assume it's not blooded semen. Correct.
And John called me and said, we got we got
a profile. Oh my stars, hold on just a minute,
detective next. Every time I talked to you, something you
(45:53):
say gives me chills. And right now I've got him.
I can just see you pulling over and they say,
we gotta profile. I just it's kind of hard to describe. Um,
I was actualing my way to a fishing tournament lake
you follow, and um, I don't think my mind ever
(46:14):
lived that second the whole time I was there. So
I'm thinking, Okay, we were gonna run this through uh
a database now from a database, and we're gonna get
a hit, and this is, you know, case closed. Well,
we didn't get a hit, and there's a lot of speculation.
(46:38):
And one thing I'd like to say, Nancy, is I
know this long shot. I know it is. I know
that the probabilities are not good but possible. And people
say to me, why don't you let it go? You
know it's been years. If he's alive, he's you know,
(46:59):
and tell them miss it. For me, this is no
longer about conviction as much as it is closure. Her
mama wants to know before she dies who killed her baby.
And for me, if we get a conviction, great, But
even if he's dead, even if he's buried, somewhere. I
(47:20):
want to know who he is and I'm absolutely committed
to that even if I never get a conviction. Detective
Morris Knicks, Cobb County Cold Case Unit. I'm with you, Detective.
I want to know who he is and I want
to know that he's headed where he belongs, which is hell.
(47:43):
The case goes on in the search for justice for
nine year old Debbie Randall Tipline. Anyone with information please
call Cobb County Coal Case Unit seven seven zero five
to eight three three to seven, seven zero five to
(48:03):
eight three oh three two. Detective Morris Nicks, Thank you friend,
Thank you Nancy for all you do. Thank you very much.
I want to take this moment and thank our partner
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if you're like me, you don't spend a whole lot
(48:23):
of time thinking about your circulation. But I can tell
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raising the twins. I need energy. Now, here's the thing.
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(50:12):
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joining us and listening today. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.