December 5, 2025 • 47 mins
Luigi Mangione's defense team describes his "beautiful, promising life" as "derailed" by the murder charges against him.
This phrasing is not highlighted as a saying from Mangione's groupies, but as a phrase coming from Mangione's attorney as part of a legal motion filed to dismiss the federal case or get the death penalty tossed.
As part of an evidence suppression hearing in the upcoming trial of Luigi Mangione, prosecutors play a 911 call placed by the manager of a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania.
The McDonald's manager is not identified, and the hearing is the first time the 911 call is played in public.
The manager is apologetic as she tells the 911 operator she tried the non-emergency line first and continues taking orders as she tells the operator, "I have a customer here some other customers were suspicious of because he looks like the CEO shooter in New York. And they're just really upset and come to me, and I'm like, I can't approach him."
The 911 operator, Emily States, testifies and is heard asking for a description of the individual, with the manager replying, "The only thing you can see is the eyebrows."
Mangione's defense attorney, Marc Agnifilo, objects to the 911 call being played, but the judge says he is allowing the call for this hearing.
Mangione enters the courtroom in shackles, but the judge allows Mangione to sit unshackled and take notes at the defense table.
Long lines outside the courthouse filled with women and men supporters trying to enter the hearing, hoping to get a glimpse of the alleged CEO murderer.
Mangione's defense team is trying to prevent several key pieces of evidence from being allowed at trial, like the comment about the 3-D printed pistol.
Angifilo claims conversations with correction officers were illegally coerced and should not be allowed.
The defense claims Mangione is questioned for 20 minutes by Altoona Police Officer Joseph Detwiler without being read his Miranda rights.
Therefore, prosecutors should not be allowed to introduce any testimony about statements made by Mangione to police.
Joining Nancy Grace:
- Skye Lazaro - Criminal Defense Attorney - with experience in both federal and state cases, Law Firm: Ray, Quinney & Nebeker; Facebook: SkyeBeth, Instagram: SkyeBeth1
- Dr. Judy Ho - Clinical and Forensic Neuropsychologist, Author of 'The New Rules of Attachment'; and 'Stop Self-Sabatoge;' IG & X: @drjudyho; FB: doctorjudyho
- Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA. Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital
- Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, Host of "Zone 7;" X: @149zone7
- Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective for 30 years - Narcotics, Robbery Squad, Gang Investigations - was also assigned to the FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast; FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X @JoScottForensic
- Kayla Brantley - Reporter-At-Large for DailyMail.com; X: @_KaylaBrantley, Instagram: @KaylaBrantley
- Dave Mack - Crime Online Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the defense for the alleged
assassin Luigi Mangioni, actually gets up in court and talks
about how mangione is the victim, actually claiming with a
straight face that his quote beautiful, promising life has been
(00:27):
derailed by.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Those pesky murderer charges. Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I wonder how the murder victim's family is feeling about
right now. He's leaving behind a wife and two sons,
and Luigi Mangioni's defense team claims he's the victim. And
I haven't even got started on what they are trying
to have thrown out of evidence so a jury will
never hear the truth.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
No One, what is the address of your emergency?
Speaker 5 (01:01):
That's not really an emergency? I do I have a
customer here that some other customers were suspicions of that
he looked like the CEO shooter New York.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter
at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in
court that their client, luigim Agiani is the victim because
his quote beautiful, promising life has been derailed.
Speaker 6 (01:32):
Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him
as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that
had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.
This was something that he went through. He went through
back surgery. And one thing that they say here is
that the real enemy here is the medical system, and
(01:53):
that is one thing that you can definitely expect his
legal team.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'll argue, Kila, can I believe you are my lion
eyes control room? Please show me him a running along
the beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting
up girls and tickling them.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's a video.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of
him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those
photos of him hiking and what looks to be a
jungle rainfall. Oh, he is feeling no pain there, Keili Brantley,
I hope you don't fall for that look like and seeker.
Doctor Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimanngioni is apparently
(02:35):
the victim in this scenario. Doctor Judy Hoe is joining
US clinical forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules
of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need
to write one, doctor Judy Hoe about try to tell
the truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay
for it and we can send.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It to Luigi Mangioni. He is not the victim here.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
But you know you can't count out the defense attorney Agnafello.
He got Sean Combs off on the major accusations in
that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think
he sounds, he essentially won that case. Yes, his his
defense team that claims Luigi Mangioni is the victim. I
(03:20):
want to read it, doctor Judy Hope, beautiful promising life
derailed by those irritating murder charges.
Speaker 7 (03:27):
Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative.
Speaker 8 (03:33):
And as you said, even though he's not the victim.
Speaker 7 (03:36):
I think this is why there has been a fan
base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe
he is a victim, that he's some type of anti hero,
that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals
who might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people in.
And it's weird because a lot of these people who
(03:58):
develop this.
Speaker 8 (03:59):
Sort of fan fanhood around Luigi.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
They're kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a
special person in his life, maybe he'll pay attention to me.
Speaker 8 (04:08):
Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person.
This person might learn to trust me. It's really interesting,
but some of it actually has to do with a
self centeredness of people who might actually talk to him,
that they're hoping to get something special out of it
for themselves.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I'm sorry, darted Udio.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I
don't even know what you just said. How can the
defense stand up and say this is not about the
murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian Thompson walking along
and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving behind two
(04:47):
sons and a wife. That's the victim, according to prosecutors,
is Luigi Mangioni holding a three D weapon that he
made that it took dozens and dozens of hours to
so he can gun down a guy walking to work
in the back. You stated, I don't know what that was,
(05:09):
doctor Judijo. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying
I'm just a trial lawyer didn't understand it.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But I think I know.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Some of the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be
the victim.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
And here they are filing in to court.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, oh what Luigi fights fascists.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Okay, look at this line.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Now, wait till you see the cat walk parade of
sad sack women filing in to They won't even show
their face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yes, keep it going, Keep.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah, that
was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring to
get in to just bask in the glow of Luigi Mangioni.
Oh it keeps going. Yeah, on and on. They had
to turn women away, and it's not just women.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (06:18):
So this is who police believe was responsible for the
United Healthcare ceo PP. His name's Glubigi. All I can say,
isa miya, does he need a Mario? I believe it
was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama, I'm
in love with a criminal, and this type of love
isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and I
(06:40):
believe we're all feeling that right now, I believe, if
you're going to do superhero like shit, you better look
like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did he
train at the Marvel Studios with all the other crisis Okay,
because Luigi, that's a spicy meat the ball. I'm so sorry.
I believe if we're going to claim to be a
Christian nation, that we need to act like one. And
part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after
(07:03):
a lot of seconds of thinking, I have decided I'm
gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right, but
not forget, because I mean, my god, how could you
forget an angel like this? I'm not gonna For a
while thought, oh my god, we're never gonna find him,
you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere on the
way the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the
masks and no masks, this man he found a way
(07:27):
into our hearts. He did.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I hardly even know where to start with that. That
is from mister William's spreck on TikTok. I'm in love
with a criminal and I forgive him after a few
seconds of consideration, Doctor gud Hoe It.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I can't say it gets worse. But there's more. Listen,
you can't take my man, his blood on his head.
When you're the one with the good.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Who's tacking lash for fun, you can't take my man.
And that's from Scarlett park TikTok. So it's gone beyond
calling him a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi
and Gioni their man, and they are angry with the
(08:32):
fans for prosecuting.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
What have I gone down the rabbit hole?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Am I in some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
What is happening, doctor Judy Hoe.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
I know it.
Speaker 7 (08:45):
Seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen. People start
to idolize these potential uh. I mean, clearly this is
a defendant, right, But they're thinking, in their minds, this
person is innocent. Maybe I'm gonna be their special person,
and they're lusting after them the way that they would
lust after a celebrity, especially when they see photos and
(09:07):
videos that they can start cutting into their own social media.
They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and
essentially completely erasing all of the facts that have been
evident in this case.
Speaker 8 (09:19):
And clearly the defendant's.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Attorneys are trying to paint that picture as well, leaning
into it as hard as possible, because they're hoping to
influence the public opinion even before a jury is selected,
so that they can hopefully get him the outcome that
he wants, which is apparently to escape a death sentence,
escape prison. Maybe I'm not sure exactly what they think
is possible, but that's what's so scary about all the
(09:43):
positivity that has developed around his persona in terms of
all of these illustrations, the website they set up about
and it's really concerning.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And you know, Cheryl mccollumy is joining me.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Cold Case Investigative Research instituet, founder, author of a brand
new book, Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the
Cold Case of the Flint River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay,
do you remember the night that you and I were
out until two o'clock in the morning staking out a
(10:14):
location where we thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
How has this gotten so bass ackwards, Cheryl Nancy?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint
this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life
was not just promising, it was in full swing. He
had a wife and children, and a career at the
highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had
(10:51):
everything going for him. Mangione had none of that, but
he took everything those children, and I'm going to tell
you something, when you look at the people that are
contacting him, I hope and pray that those six thousand
letters that he's got, that one hundred and fifteen a day,
(11:15):
that there's some good intel in there too, because he
is writing people back, so he's communicating, and I hope
they're listing every piece of it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't
even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening
in court. I'm just so concerned that one of these
nutjobs is going to end up on the ultimate jury
and acquit Luigi Mangioni under the misconception that he is
(11:46):
somehow the victim. Again in court, his lawyers and I'm quoting,
claim that his beautiful, promising life has been.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Derailed murder charges.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
It's all about me, me me, me, me, me, This
is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew up with silver
spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living in
a Hawaii high rise on the beach doing nothing, and
yet he's the victim. Can you imagine, Cheryl McCollum, how
(12:24):
hard Thompson had to work to get to become the
CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed to him on
a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree like
it was MANGIONI. He had to work and sacrifice long,
long hours to get to where he got to to
be gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I
agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not
only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.
You know what it is. You know how long David
has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,
it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at
(13:09):
the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.
Mangione was giving nothing to a family, He was giving
nothing to society. He was contributing z rows and again,
what he took cannot even be measured.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,
that's you, Cali Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow
off because I have videos of him tickling these girls
and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't
show it because it has the girl's faces in it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
But he was feeling no pain.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But it's all about me, me, me, me, me, why me?
And he's certainly not the first. Let me refresh your recollection,
as we say in court with bride killer Jamie Lee Koumarowski.
Listen to her, right, just don't know why that's hard
to happen to.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
Me, because bad things happen to good.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
People, Haney, That's why.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's just it's just something that happened to you.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
And we are going to deal with the best week past.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, Dave mac joining me, Crimes Stories investigative reporter. You
know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
She's guilty. She got totally.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful bride leaving her
wedding reception with the groom and killed her. And there
she is behind bars, going why is this happening to.
Speaker 10 (14:46):
Me one, look and listen to her father, Nancy, what
does he say, Well, bad things happen to good people.
No they don't. You just killed somebody because of your
own actions. See, we've got a whole group of people
now that never want to admit they did anything wrong.
Everything is on them. How can you possibly think man
(15:09):
Joni is sitting here saying his life is derailed. Well,
he destroyed another life and another family. Kamarowski sitting in jail,
Why is this happening to me?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Well?
Speaker 7 (15:18):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
What did you expect?
Speaker 10 (15:20):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sick of this?
Speaker 10 (15:21):
Nancy is getting really tiresome.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And there is her victim, Samantha Miller in her wedding dress,
just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komarowski.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And here's I.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Guess this would have to be the Miss Universe of
Yme Jody Arius check her out. She is more concerned
about her makeup as she is approaching trial in the
brutal stabbing and shooting death of her fiance, Travis Alexander,
who was stabbed at least twenty nine times. Joe Scott
(15:54):
Morgan and I have argued about that. I say it
was more than that check it out, Jody Areas, you
should have at least done your makeup before you speak
to police about murdering your fiance when he broke up
and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from forty
eight hours Jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, do you recall
(16:15):
Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because is
they're about to question her about what could have happened
to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,
does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have
on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott,
what happened to Travis?
Speaker 11 (16:34):
Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,
taking a shower, taking dirtie pictures, if you will, And
while his back is turned, she takes a knife and
plunges it into his back over and over and over again.
When he turns around to defend himself to try to
(16:55):
parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the
chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he
spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink, he
crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway,
she straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to
ear and the kupdi gras she shoots him after he
(17:18):
is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking
at right here. She's absolutely disgusting and.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
It's all about me, me, me, Scott Morgan, you've seen
it all. I'm gonna try to say, say you something
you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me, and
criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims.
There is the drunk, stinking drunk a d A Assistant
district's attorney Devin flanneing and listen to her.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
As what the protocol is.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Protocol is by asketers turn off the body?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Can you have to turn it off?
Speaker 5 (17:55):
And that's your protocol, lawyer.
Speaker 11 (17:57):
So she knows well that lawyers.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
So that's not true.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
So we gotta go no it is. That's that's a law.
Speaker 8 (18:03):
I'm an age, I'm an aging.
Speaker 10 (18:06):
Good for you.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Let's go on.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Those two were kicked out of I think it was
a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got,
oh gosh, she's been called a screaming bands she and
do you hear going I'm an a da, I'm an ada.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Every sin it starts with I. I I listen to
this woman, Joe Scott. He needs not judge me. He
he wants to call a salt. We're gonna go through
that row. No, he wants to go through assault.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
No, we're not doing that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Then no, he he claims I assaulted him.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
No, we're not doing that.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
We're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And then, of course maybe this one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no,
I'm gonna have to go with Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And he's a beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Dearield, I'm sure you recall Shana Hubers that gave her
ex boyfriend the quote nos jop he always wanted with
a handgun.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Listen, Starry Vain.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
One of our last conversations we had that was good
was sitting once my best friend of the dentists to
do with the marrs and want to get a noob,
just that kind of person.
Speaker 12 (19:14):
And I'm right here.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I gave him his nose job.
Speaker 12 (19:17):
He wanted.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
I want to marry me if they.
Speaker 9 (19:20):
Know that I kill my boyfriend and helped. Not funny,
but I'm not, you.
Speaker 12 (19:30):
Know.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor, forensics and death investigator. Your forte
is dead bodies and causes of death and modes of death.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Let me go to special guests.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?
I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but
me and Gioni's defensive team is actually arguing.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
His life was derailed by the murder charges.
Speaker 13 (20:02):
You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.
Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused
of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But
the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all
they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I've seen photos of Luegia Minchioni practicing yoga, tickling.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Multiple girls in a hallway all at once. Every shot
I see of him, he's out in nature. He's not
at work. We keep hearing he quit his job. He
was laid off. Gee, I wonder why maybe the job
interfered with the.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Tickling crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Throughout this week, Luigia Mangioni and his defensive team have
been fighting it out in court to get a lot
of evidence suppressed. Forget about all the sad sack women
lined up to get in. Forget about the martyrdom of
Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Let's talk about the facts and the law.
Speaker 14 (21:11):
Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have
a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.
He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and
they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,
I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can
be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one
of them is no better. The nine one one operator,
(21:33):
Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to
ask for a description, with the manager replying, the only
thing you can see is the eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and
federal court. She is with Ray Quinny and nebeker Sky.
Thank you for being with us. If the defense is
arguing that Luigimngioni was illegally arrested, the nine to one
(22:03):
one call occurred before the arrest, So what could be
the possible grounds for suppressing that call by the McDonald's manager.
Speaker 15 (22:14):
I think they're going to have a really hard time
keeping the nine one one call out. I can understand
it from a defense perspective. You have to try, but
when it comes to nine to one one calls, as
long as you can lay the foundation for it, it's
probably coming in.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I can tell you one thing I know Sky lazarro
that they hate about this nine to one one call.
We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slaghings
for Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described Brian
Coberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Listen, just remember seeing.
Speaker 16 (22:52):
This figure that was like not fat obviously, but more
of like the skinnyer tongue build.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And some mask on.
Speaker 16 (22:59):
I don't know what the ma exactly was, but when
I thought about it, it was just like covering here
and here. I don't know if he's covering his mouth
his nose or below his mouth and nose. I just
remember knowing that he was white, but I didn't know
how he was white. I just knew he was and
this knowing there's like I knew he had looked at
me because of a bushy eye.
Speaker 9 (23:16):
That's all I remember.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the
very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in
cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.
(23:40):
He was a chef, by the way, identified by a
particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber
identified because he walked sleugh footed, in other words, like
a duck. They are all sorts of ways to identify someone.
It can be by voice, it could be any number
(24:02):
of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows,
and there's.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No doubt that's Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
They hate it.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
They hate that identification.
Speaker 12 (24:15):
Tom, Yeah, they do, because you know, it shows how
important Nancy and we did this when we first started
talking about this case, how important the videos and all
the photos were to get out to the public, even
if his face was covered, even if he was in
a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped
(24:36):
off the page to everyone who looked at it. That
was the number one thing that everyone looked at as
a looking point and identification point when it came to him,
and it just showed that the quicker they got those
photos out, the better it was.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
In the end of this. You know, I'm very curious
about this, the fact that he is identified at McDonald's
by his eye browse, among other things. Let's say the
pictures of the McDonald's. There you go, there, he is
at McDonald's. But skyl Azaara, don't you think that the
defense should be more concerned about the fact that he
(25:13):
can be identified at the time of the killing.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
He showed his face repeatedly.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I agree with you.
Speaker 15 (25:20):
He probably should have been a little bit more careful
at that time and that should be the stuff they're
seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as
it goes to the nine to one one call. The
defense's probably only argument is that these are witnesses who
identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,
so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.
(25:41):
They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.
The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it
turns out to be him.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The defense is arguing
that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind
of under arrest because so many police started showing up
and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if this
is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed, and.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there
with him, so they were right. Now, what the defense
is arguing is that having multipolice multiple police officers show
up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we
care because police engage in a conversation with him to
identify him, and he spilled a lot of information in
(26:34):
that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest.
Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you
are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they
want the judge to believe that because several police officers
showed up at McDonald's, that me and Gioni was effectively
(26:57):
under arrest in any statement he made pre.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Miranda should be suppressed.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's not going to happen when I walk into Let's
just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlanta PD are
in there getting a salad.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I don't feel like I'm under arrest. Think about it. Listen.
Speaker 14 (27:17):
Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's. Manjoni
sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven minutes later,
the nine one one call is made. Nine twenty eight
two police officers show up and begin talking to Mangoni.
The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police until nine
forty two, when at least eight officers are visible on
the recording. The defense claims packing the place with police
(27:40):
amounts to unlawful attention prior to Mangoni's arrest. Agnifilo argues
police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount to illegally
detaining the alleged killer. Agniffilo also takes exception with the
way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest, claiming it
was warrantlessly searched on the scene.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
In other words, they looked in his back. Cheryl McCollum
joining me.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
She is not only a crime scene investigator and founder
of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she is also
the star of a hit podcast which I actually put
on a loop sometimes. Cheryl McCollum, Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum,
has it ever dawned on you when you go into
McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're arresting somebody,
(28:22):
that you're a mere presence equals an arrest, Because that's
what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,
is get out from under what Manngioni said to police
pre miranda and.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Them finding evidence in his backpack.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
I think the body cam is going to be so
critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.
It's going to, you know, show the world that he
stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a
guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is
doing is there basically, look, you use newer to make
something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and
(29:04):
trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that
he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest, and
now we can't use anything, and it's just be a while.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
This legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.
Speaker 17 (29:24):
He's a young man and he is being treated like
a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,
and they are literally treating him like he is like
some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
He was on display for everyone to see in the.
Speaker 17 (29:43):
Biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.
There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to
have these big assault rifles that frankly I had no
idea it was in their arsenal.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
And to have all of these these the.
Speaker 17 (29:57):
Press there, the media there, it was like perfectly core aoreograph.
And what was the New York City mayor doing at
this press conference?
Speaker 3 (30:04):
He is a walking talking contradiction.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
He supposedly is against this wealthy CEO is yet he
comes for money.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
This is a guy living in a high rise in
Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Did you wake up to a beach this morning?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Dec?
Speaker 5 (30:20):
I sertain not.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and nail to
keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and as Cheryl
McCombs pointed out, that bodycam is going to be so
significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It
doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigi
Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what really
happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the
(30:43):
nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But what
happened in the McDonald's Is the state going to lose
valuable evidence on illegal technicality?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Why is it they want that backpack suppressed?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Straight out to Investigator at large for dailymail dot Com
kill Lebrandley.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
What was in the backpack? Nancy?
Speaker 6 (31:10):
There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun
which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.
There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it, and
he also had a knife on him, which was discovered
about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at
that point he was considered very dangerous.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Okay, hold on, what did you.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Say was written in Mangione's spiral notebook that was in
his backpack that he.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
Wanted any use the word whack the healthcare CEO whack
meaning kill herd destroy.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac Crime
Stories investigative reporter. Tell me about the three D gun
sometimes called a ghost gun.
Speaker 10 (31:53):
But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been
given the very specifics of what type of gun. We
know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact
name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive
amount of time and filament far more than any other.
Deliberator is the most common, and it's the easiest one
(32:13):
to print. It takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator
takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.
Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is
made on a three D printer. Tom, It's unserialized. That's
why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as
is long gun, is shotgun under the bed? You think
it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got a
(32:46):
serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost
gun is un serialized.
Speaker 12 (32:55):
Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you
do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.
And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni
of course went to the lengths that he did to
make that gun, because that is the predetermined and premeditation
of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that gun
(33:16):
not being traced to him, and that is part of
this as well.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Tom Smith, you're exactly correct. To Joseph Scott Morgan, let
me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics
at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.
He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of
death sayings, and he's a star of hit podcast Body.
(33:42):
Back to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, what is a
suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.
Speaker 11 (33:53):
Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon
is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack
of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,
it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sound. So
what you want to do is reduce that sound that's
put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,
(34:15):
I'm glad that you have that image. You take a
close look at that weapon. There the end of that
muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that
it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor
is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.
It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you
(34:36):
want to knock down the sound, so it's not going
to draw attention to you when you fired this thing.
Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.
This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there
in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear
a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not
like it's portrayed in movies, okay, but it will reduce
(34:57):
the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it. And the purpose
of this is so that you're not going to draw
attention to any one. It does reduce, say, some of
the capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness
of it at a greater range. But this is not
a close range. As a matter of fact, if we
were to look at the body here, it would be
(35:20):
classified as indeterminate because you're not going to have any
kind of sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It will have
fallen away by that time, but this is not too
distant of a shot. You'll still have that same muzzle
velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl
McCollum is with us. Cheryl who has un serialized guns
and silencers.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Criminals, And maybe there's another thing. Even though this is
a three D printed weapon, it's still gonna lead marking
on casons and they're gonna be able to be, you know,
determined that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered Brian Thompson.
So forensically, it's not going to get you out of trouble.
(36:15):
They may not can trace it to a manufacturer, to
a bar that they can absolutely determine that that bullet
was fired by that weapon.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is
like a fish in water for you. Every day you
were getting off.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
The streets of Manhattan guns to match with bullets, bullets
that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
And Cheryl said it right.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
A bullet hurls down the barrel of.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
A gun, that gun may look like all the other
guns in the gun store showcase. But it's not because
inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in a certain
way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside
of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots down the barrel,
(37:13):
it is forever marked by those imperfections. So when you
take the murder weapon to the crime lab and you
shoot a bullet through the murder weapon, and you take
the known bullet dug out of the victim and you
put it under a microscope next to the one you
just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No other gun, be
(37:37):
it a three D printed gun, a grandma's Bessie's out
from under her her mattress, you can track and identify
like a fingerprint, that bullet came from that gun.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Isn't that true?
Speaker 12 (37:54):
And that's the best way to say it. It's it's
the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in
the twist and all of that is what you match up.
And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable, you know,
to anyone else. It is strictly to that weapon that
you will match up the weapon. Take the round taken
out of the victim and match it up and that
(38:16):
is damaging when it comes to court.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are
fighting to the death in court to keep that jury
from every knowing of a ballistics match.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
That his three day pretty gun is the murder weapon.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Listen to Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan District Attorney, for.
Speaker 18 (38:40):
Nearly an hour we alledged to the definitet waited in
the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister Thompson
to appear. From six thirty eight am to six forty
four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance of
the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he saw
mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind.
(39:01):
We alleged he then took out a nine millimeter three
D printed ghost gun equipped with a three D printed
suppressor and shot him once in the back and once
in the leg.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, So what about his beach
bum life?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Just before the assassination.
Speaker 7 (39:26):
Right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to
Asia and he went on a backpacking trip.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
The beach Bumb photos and the two thousand dollars month
eye Rise and the Frola King and Honolulu. Oh my goodness,
he might as well bucked up with the writz Caleb Brantley,
Daily Mail. The defense for Luigi Maggioni is also trying
to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards. He
(39:52):
had special guards behind bars, so nothing would happen to
him like it did to Epstein. So let's first talk
about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who was minding Mangioni.
What did Manngioni allegedly say to Rivers, Nancy?
Speaker 6 (40:12):
Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he
had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being
compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media
was more focused on crime, and that when you looked
at social media, they were really more focused about the
healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.
(40:35):
This was really about.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Wow. Sounds like a confession to me, Sky lazarro Oopsie.
Speaker 15 (40:40):
Nancy, I agree and disagree.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Here's the problem.
Speaker 15 (40:43):
They put these guys in a situation like that in
solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the
other thing is that we know these officers didn't document
any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes seven
times an hour about what he's doing and his well being,
and he don't write down anything like he just made
an admission.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Sky Lazarro, Did you say it's a problem he's being
held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,
Brian Thompson, except his is a casket.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
So you're telling me.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazarro,
that he's the one that's being tormented.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
You know what else?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a
Perception by Aldus Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug
trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not
read the book. But there is another guard that he
(41:45):
talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in listening.
Speaker 14 (41:49):
Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That
doesn't stop Man Jonny from telling Henry he was caught
with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to
murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Niphelo challenges Henry, saying,
so he just blurted out to you that he had
a three D printed pistol. Henry Drily replies yes too.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Doctor Angela Arnold joining us.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
She's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at
Angela Arnold dot com foreim Professor Psychiatry.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
It goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Former medical director at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady,
which never has a lack of business. I found a
lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Why is this so hard?
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I've met a jury's not going to have a hard
time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who has had a
lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his guards why they're
his new friends.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
They would never betray him, right?
Speaker 6 (42:49):
Yeap?
Speaker 9 (42:50):
Oh sure?
Speaker 19 (42:51):
And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort
of personality disorder in which he thinks about him so
an awful lot. So he really doesn't He may not
see that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't
suffered any consequences for any of his actions in the past,
and so that would make him more likely to almost
(43:14):
be bragging about what he's done and to let other
people know what he's done. This is typical for his
behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective thirty years now,
star co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom, What is
wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just
get away with everything? Anything and everything they can confess
they can stay. Yeah, they caught me with the three
(43:47):
D printed gun, which is the murder weapon.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
What is wrong with them?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement sometimes does
them end? Because they think they can buy off everybody
that everybody wants.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
To be their friend, but these two guards do not
want to be his friend.
Speaker 12 (44:08):
Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You
know they've gotten what they want, did they'd either pay
for it or the power that they have has influenced
someone's decision into what they're getting or what they're doing.
And they just think that holds true for every aspect
of their life, including killing someone. I mean, that's how
deranged they are when it comes to the entitlement that
(44:30):
they believe they are are owed when it comes to
murder or you know, killing a bride. We did that show.
You know, it's just constant and it just keeps coming up,
and it's absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Tom.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I want you to look at a picture if I
can get the controller to put it up for me,
dig through those files. I want to see the picture
allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up the three Day
with the silencer on it, pointing directly at Brian Thompson's back.
According to police, he waited an hour for just the
(45:07):
right moment. There's his backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's.
There's his outfit which he had with him. There's the
three D weapon.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
And let's look at Brian Thompson walking along early morning
going to a work conference. He shot in the back
right there.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
And I'm not going to play that when he actually
gets shot, because someday, somehow his boys might look this
up online and I don't want this to be stuck
in their memory. Calla Brantley. Were any of men g
(45:51):
Only's family members in court and were any of the victims'
family members in court this week?
Speaker 6 (45:59):
Not that we know of Nancy, but a lot of
Luigi's supporters And one thing, have you heard of pretty privilege?
Because it absolutely feels like Luigi is benefiting from that
by having hordes of fans because he is a handsome
man that he is benefiting from pretty privilege. And I'm
sure his defense team is happy that they have a
(46:22):
relatively attractive man as a client.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Kiala, I don't find him attractive.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Every time I look at him, I see a tail
swishing in the back and two horns right here.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
That's what I see.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
What is happening in court this week is critical. If
this evidence is suppressed, there may be no justice in
this case. A man shut down on the sidewalk on
video and no justice. We wait as justice of folds.
(46:56):
But now we remember an American Hero Reserve Deputy Sheriff
John Stall, Jefferson County Sheriff's Indiana, killed in a line
of duty after fifteen years of service, leaving behind a
devastated wife turned widd American Hero Reserve Deputy Shriff John Stall,
(47:17):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the defense for the alleged
assassin Luigi Mangioni, actually gets up in court and talks
about how mangione is the victim, actually claiming with a
straight face that his quote beautiful, promising life has been
(00:27):
derailed by.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Those pesky murderer charges. Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I wonder how the murder victim's family is feeling about
right now. He's leaving behind a wife and two sons,
and Luigi Mangioni's defense team claims he's the victim. And
I haven't even got started on what they are trying
to have thrown out of evidence so a jury will
never hear the truth.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
No One, what is the address of your emergency?
Speaker 5 (01:01):
That's not really an emergency? I do I have a
customer here that some other customers were suspicions of that
he looked like the CEO shooter New York.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Okay, straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter
at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in
court that their client, luigim Agiani is the victim because
his quote beautiful, promising life has been derailed.
Speaker 6 (01:32):
Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him
as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that
had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.
This was something that he went through. He went through
back surgery. And one thing that they say here is
that the real enemy here is the medical system, and
(01:53):
that is one thing that you can definitely expect his
legal team.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I'll argue, Kila, can I believe you are my lion
eyes control room? Please show me him a running along
the beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting
up girls and tickling them.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
It's a video.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of
him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those
photos of him hiking and what looks to be a
jungle rainfall. Oh, he is feeling no pain there, Keili Brantley,
I hope you don't fall for that look like and seeker.
Doctor Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimanngioni is apparently
(02:35):
the victim in this scenario. Doctor Judy Hoe is joining
US clinical forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules
of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need
to write one, doctor Judy Hoe about try to tell
the truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay
for it and we can send.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
It to Luigi Mangioni. He is not the victim here.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
But you know you can't count out the defense attorney Agnafello.
He got Sean Combs off on the major accusations in
that indictment. So no matter how ridiculous I may think
he sounds, he essentially won that case. Yes, his his
defense team that claims Luigi Mangioni is the victim. I
(03:20):
want to read it, doctor Judy Hope, beautiful promising life
derailed by those irritating murder charges.
Speaker 7 (03:27):
Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative.
Speaker 8 (03:33):
And as you said, even though he's not the victim.
Speaker 7 (03:36):
I think this is why there has been a fan
base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe
he is a victim, that he's some type of anti hero,
that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals
who might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people in.
And it's weird because a lot of these people who
(03:58):
develop this.
Speaker 8 (03:59):
Sort of fan fanhood around Luigi.
Speaker 7 (04:03):
They're kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a
special person in his life, maybe he'll pay attention to me.
Speaker 8 (04:08):
Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person.
This person might learn to trust me. It's really interesting,
but some of it actually has to do with a
self centeredness of people who might actually talk to him,
that they're hoping to get something special out of it
for themselves.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I'm sorry, darted Udio.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I
don't even know what you just said. How can the
defense stand up and say this is not about the
murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian Thompson walking along
and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving behind two
(04:47):
sons and a wife. That's the victim, according to prosecutors,
is Luigi Mangioni holding a three D weapon that he
made that it took dozens and dozens of hours to
so he can gun down a guy walking to work
in the back. You stated, I don't know what that was,
(05:09):
doctor Judijo. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying
I'm just a trial lawyer didn't understand it.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
But I think I know.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Some of the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be
the victim.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
And here they are filing in to court.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, oh what Luigi fights fascists.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Okay, look at this line.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Now, wait till you see the cat walk parade of
sad sack women filing in to They won't even show
their face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yes, keep it going, Keep.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah, that
was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring to
get in to just bask in the glow of Luigi Mangioni.
Oh it keeps going. Yeah, on and on. They had
to turn women away, and it's not just women.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (06:18):
So this is who police believe was responsible for the
United Healthcare ceo PP. His name's Glubigi. All I can say,
isa miya, does he need a Mario? I believe it
was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama, I'm
in love with a criminal, and this type of love
isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and I
(06:40):
believe we're all feeling that right now, I believe, if
you're going to do superhero like shit, you better look
like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did he
train at the Marvel Studios with all the other crisis Okay,
because Luigi, that's a spicy meat the ball. I'm so sorry.
I believe if we're going to claim to be a
Christian nation, that we need to act like one. And
part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness. And after
(07:03):
a lot of seconds of thinking, I have decided I'm
gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right, but
not forget, because I mean, my god, how could you
forget an angel like this? I'm not gonna For a
while thought, oh my god, we're never gonna find him,
you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere on the
way the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the
masks and no masks, this man he found a way
(07:27):
into our hearts. He did.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
I hardly even know where to start with that. That
is from mister William's spreck on TikTok. I'm in love
with a criminal and I forgive him after a few
seconds of consideration, Doctor gud Hoe It.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I can't say it gets worse. But there's more. Listen,
you can't take my man, his blood on his head.
When you're the one with the good.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Who's tacking lash for fun, you can't take my man.
And that's from Scarlett park TikTok. So it's gone beyond
calling him a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi
and Gioni their man, and they are angry with the
(08:32):
fans for prosecuting.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
What have I gone down the rabbit hole?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Am I in some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
What is happening, doctor Judy Hoe.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
I know it.
Speaker 7 (08:45):
Seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen. People start
to idolize these potential uh. I mean, clearly this is
a defendant, right, But they're thinking, in their minds, this
person is innocent. Maybe I'm gonna be their special person,
and they're lusting after them the way that they would
lust after a celebrity, especially when they see photos and
(09:07):
videos that they can start cutting into their own social media.
They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and
essentially completely erasing all of the facts that have been
evident in this case.
Speaker 8 (09:19):
And clearly the defendant's.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Attorneys are trying to paint that picture as well, leaning
into it as hard as possible, because they're hoping to
influence the public opinion even before a jury is selected,
so that they can hopefully get him the outcome that
he wants, which is apparently to escape a death sentence,
escape prison. Maybe I'm not sure exactly what they think
is possible, but that's what's so scary about all the
(09:43):
positivity that has developed around his persona in terms of
all of these illustrations, the website they set up about
and it's really concerning.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
And you know, Cheryl mccollumy is joining me.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Cold Case Investigative Research instituet, founder, author of a brand
new book, Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the
Cold Case of the Flint River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay,
do you remember the night that you and I were
out until two o'clock in the morning staking out a
(10:14):
location where we thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
How has this gotten so bass ackwards, Cheryl Nancy?
Speaker 4 (10:27):
It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint
this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life
was not just promising, it was in full swing. He
had a wife and children, and a career at the
highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had
(10:51):
everything going for him. Mangione had none of that, but
he took everything those children, and I'm going to tell
you something, when you look at the people that are
contacting him, I hope and pray that those six thousand
letters that he's got, that one hundred and fifteen a day,
(11:15):
that there's some good intel in there too, because he
is writing people back, so he's communicating, and I hope
they're listing every piece of it.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't
even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening
in court. I'm just so concerned that one of these
nutjobs is going to end up on the ultimate jury
and acquit Luigi Mangioni under the misconception that he is
(11:46):
somehow the victim. Again in court, his lawyers and I'm quoting,
claim that his beautiful, promising life has been.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Derailed murder charges.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
It's all about me, me me, me, me, me, This
is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew up with silver
spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living in
a Hawaii high rise on the beach doing nothing, and
yet he's the victim. Can you imagine, Cheryl McCollum, how
(12:24):
hard Thompson had to work to get to become the
CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed to him on
a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree like
it was MANGIONI. He had to work and sacrifice long,
long hours to get to where he got to to
be gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I
agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not
only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.
You know what it is. You know how long David
has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,
it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at
(13:09):
the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.
Mangione was giving nothing to a family, He was giving
nothing to society. He was contributing z rows and again,
what he took cannot even be measured.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,
that's you, Cali Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow
off because I have videos of him tickling these girls
and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't
show it because it has the girl's faces in it.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
But he was feeling no pain.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But it's all about me, me, me, me, me, why me?
And he's certainly not the first. Let me refresh your recollection,
as we say in court with bride killer Jamie Lee Koumarowski.
Listen to her, right, just don't know why that's hard
to happen to.
Speaker 7 (14:05):
Me, because bad things happen to good.
Speaker 5 (14:09):
People, Haney, That's why.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
It's just it's just something that happened to you.
Speaker 5 (14:16):
And we are going to deal with the best week past.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, Dave mac joining me, Crimes Stories investigative reporter. You
know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
She's guilty. She got totally.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Stinking drunk and plowed into a beautiful bride leaving her
wedding reception with the groom and killed her. And there
she is behind bars, going why is this happening to.
Speaker 10 (14:46):
Me one, look and listen to her father, Nancy, what
does he say, Well, bad things happen to good people.
No they don't. You just killed somebody because of your
own actions. See, we've got a whole group of people
now that never want to admit they did anything wrong.
Everything is on them. How can you possibly think man
(15:09):
Joni is sitting here saying his life is derailed. Well,
he destroyed another life and another family. Kamarowski sitting in jail,
Why is this happening to me?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Well?
Speaker 7 (15:18):
Why not?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
What did you expect?
Speaker 10 (15:20):
What happened?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Sick of this?
Speaker 10 (15:21):
Nancy is getting really tiresome.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
And there is her victim, Samantha Miller in her wedding dress,
just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komarowski.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And here's I.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Guess this would have to be the Miss Universe of
Yme Jody Arius check her out. She is more concerned
about her makeup as she is approaching trial in the
brutal stabbing and shooting death of her fiance, Travis Alexander,
who was stabbed at least twenty nine times. Joe Scott
(15:54):
Morgan and I have argued about that. I say it
was more than that check it out, Jody Areas, you
should have at least done your makeup before you speak
to police about murdering your fiance when he broke up
and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from forty
eight hours Jo Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, do you recall
(16:15):
Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because is
they're about to question her about what could have happened
to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,
does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have
on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott,
what happened to Travis?
Speaker 11 (16:34):
Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,
taking a shower, taking dirtie pictures, if you will, And
while his back is turned, she takes a knife and
plunges it into his back over and over and over again.
When he turns around to defend himself to try to
(16:55):
parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the
chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he
spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink, he
crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway,
she straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to
ear and the kupdi gras she shoots him after he
(17:18):
is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking
at right here. She's absolutely disgusting and.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
It's all about me, me, me, Scott Morgan, you've seen
it all. I'm gonna try to say, say you something
you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me, and
criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims.
There is the drunk, stinking drunk a d A Assistant
district's attorney Devin flanneing and listen to her.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
As what the protocol is.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Protocol is by asketers turn off the body?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Can you have to turn it off?
Speaker 5 (17:55):
And that's your protocol, lawyer.
Speaker 11 (17:57):
So she knows well that lawyers.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
So that's not true.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
So we gotta go no it is. That's that's a law.
Speaker 8 (18:03):
I'm an age, I'm an aging.
Speaker 10 (18:06):
Good for you.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Let's go on.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Those two were kicked out of I think it was
a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got,
oh gosh, she's been called a screaming bands she and
do you hear going I'm an a da, I'm an ada.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Every sin it starts with I. I I listen to
this woman, Joe Scott. He needs not judge me. He
he wants to call a salt. We're gonna go through
that row. No, he wants to go through assault.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
No, we're not doing that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Then no, he he claims I assaulted him.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
No, we're not doing that.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
We're not doing that.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
And then, of course maybe this one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no,
I'm gonna have to go with Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And he's a beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Dearield, I'm sure you recall Shana Hubers that gave her
ex boyfriend the quote nos jop he always wanted with
a handgun.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Listen, Starry Vain.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
One of our last conversations we had that was good
was sitting once my best friend of the dentists to
do with the marrs and want to get a noob,
just that kind of person.
Speaker 12 (19:14):
And I'm right here.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
I gave him his nose job.
Speaker 12 (19:17):
He wanted.
Speaker 7 (19:19):
I want to marry me if they.
Speaker 9 (19:20):
Know that I kill my boyfriend and helped. Not funny,
but I'm not, you.
Speaker 12 (19:30):
Know.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor, forensics and death investigator. Your forte
is dead bodies and causes of death and modes of death.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Let me go to special guests.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?
I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but
me and Gioni's defensive team is actually arguing.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
His life was derailed by the murder charges.
Speaker 13 (20:02):
You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.
Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused
of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But
the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all
they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I've seen photos of Luegia Minchioni practicing yoga, tickling.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Multiple girls in a hallway all at once. Every shot
I see of him, he's out in nature. He's not
at work. We keep hearing he quit his job. He
was laid off. Gee, I wonder why maybe the job
interfered with the.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Tickling crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Throughout this week, Luigia Mangioni and his defensive team have
been fighting it out in court to get a lot
of evidence suppressed. Forget about all the sad sack women
lined up to get in. Forget about the martyrdom of
Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Let's talk about the facts and the law.
Speaker 14 (21:11):
Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have
a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.
He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and
they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,
I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can
be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one
of them is no better. The nine one one operator,
(21:33):
Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to
ask for a description, with the manager replying, the only
thing you can see is the eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.
She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and
federal court. She is with Ray Quinny and nebeker Sky.
Thank you for being with us. If the defense is
arguing that Luigimngioni was illegally arrested, the nine to one
(22:03):
one call occurred before the arrest, So what could be
the possible grounds for suppressing that call by the McDonald's manager.
Speaker 15 (22:14):
I think they're going to have a really hard time
keeping the nine one one call out. I can understand
it from a defense perspective. You have to try, but
when it comes to nine to one one calls, as
long as you can lay the foundation for it, it's
probably coming in.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I can tell you one thing I know Sky lazarro
that they hate about this nine to one one call.
We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slaghings
for Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described Brian
Coberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Listen, just remember seeing.
Speaker 16 (22:52):
This figure that was like not fat obviously, but more
of like the skinnyer tongue build.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And some mask on.
Speaker 16 (22:59):
I don't know what the ma exactly was, but when
I thought about it, it was just like covering here
and here. I don't know if he's covering his mouth
his nose or below his mouth and nose. I just
remember knowing that he was white, but I didn't know
how he was white. I just knew he was and
this knowing there's like I knew he had looked at
me because of a bushy eye.
Speaker 9 (23:16):
That's all I remember.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,
star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the
very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in
cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.
(23:40):
He was a chef, by the way, identified by a
particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber
identified because he walked sleugh footed, in other words, like
a duck. They are all sorts of ways to identify someone.
It can be by voice, it could be any number
(24:02):
of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows,
and there's.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No doubt that's Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
They hate it.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
They hate that identification.
Speaker 12 (24:15):
Tom, Yeah, they do, because you know, it shows how
important Nancy and we did this when we first started
talking about this case, how important the videos and all
the photos were to get out to the public, even
if his face was covered, even if he was in
a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped
(24:36):
off the page to everyone who looked at it. That
was the number one thing that everyone looked at as
a looking point and identification point when it came to him,
and it just showed that the quicker they got those
photos out, the better it was.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
In the end of this. You know, I'm very curious
about this, the fact that he is identified at McDonald's
by his eye browse, among other things. Let's say the
pictures of the McDonald's. There you go, there, he is
at McDonald's. But skyl Azaara, don't you think that the
defense should be more concerned about the fact that he
(25:13):
can be identified at the time of the killing.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
He showed his face repeatedly.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I agree with you.
Speaker 15 (25:20):
He probably should have been a little bit more careful
at that time and that should be the stuff they're
seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as
it goes to the nine to one one call. The
defense's probably only argument is that these are witnesses who
identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,
so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.
(25:41):
They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.
The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it
turns out to be him.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The defense is arguing
that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind
of under arrest because so many police started showing up
and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if this
is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed, and.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there
with him, so they were right. Now, what the defense
is arguing is that having multipolice multiple police officers show
up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we
care because police engage in a conversation with him to
identify him, and he spilled a lot of information in
(26:34):
that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest.
Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you
are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they
want the judge to believe that because several police officers
showed up at McDonald's, that me and Gioni was effectively
(26:57):
under arrest in any statement he made pre.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Miranda should be suppressed.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's not going to happen when I walk into Let's
just pretend a Chipotle and all the Atlanta PD are
in there getting a salad.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I don't feel like I'm under arrest. Think about it. Listen.
Speaker 14 (27:17):
Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's. Manjoni
sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven minutes later,
the nine one one call is made. Nine twenty eight
two police officers show up and begin talking to Mangoni.
The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police until nine
forty two, when at least eight officers are visible on
the recording. The defense claims packing the place with police
(27:40):
amounts to unlawful attention prior to Mangoni's arrest. Agnifilo argues
police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount to illegally
detaining the alleged killer. Agniffilo also takes exception with the
way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest, claiming it
was warrantlessly searched on the scene.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
In other words, they looked in his back. Cheryl McCollum
joining me.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
She is not only a crime scene investigator and founder
of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she is also
the star of a hit podcast which I actually put
on a loop sometimes. Cheryl McCollum, Zone seven, Cheryl McCollum,
has it ever dawned on you when you go into
McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're arresting somebody,
(28:22):
that you're a mere presence equals an arrest, Because that's
what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,
is get out from under what Manngioni said to police
pre miranda and.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Them finding evidence in his backpack.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
I think the body cam is going to be so
critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.
It's going to, you know, show the world that he
stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a
guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is
doing is there basically, look, you use newer to make
something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and
(29:04):
trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that
he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest, and
now we can't use anything, and it's just be a while.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
This legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.
Speaker 17 (29:24):
He's a young man and he is being treated like
a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,
and they are literally treating him like he is like
some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
He was on display for everyone to see in the.
Speaker 17 (29:43):
Biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.
There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to
have these big assault rifles that frankly I had no
idea it was in their arsenal.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
And to have all of these these the.
Speaker 17 (29:57):
Press there, the media there, it was like perfectly core aoreograph.
And what was the New York City mayor doing at
this press conference?
Speaker 3 (30:04):
He is a walking talking contradiction.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
He supposedly is against this wealthy CEO is yet he
comes for money.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
This is a guy living in a high rise in
Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Did you wake up to a beach this morning?
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Dec?
Speaker 5 (30:20):
I sertain not.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and nail to
keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and as Cheryl
McCombs pointed out, that bodycam is going to be so
significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It
doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigi
Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what really
happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the
(30:43):
nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But what
happened in the McDonald's Is the state going to lose
valuable evidence on illegal technicality?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Why is it they want that backpack suppressed?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Straight out to Investigator at large for dailymail dot Com
kill Lebrandley.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
What was in the backpack? Nancy?
Speaker 6 (31:10):
There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun
which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.
There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it, and
he also had a knife on him, which was discovered
about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at
that point he was considered very dangerous.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Okay, hold on, what did you.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Say was written in Mangione's spiral notebook that was in
his backpack that he.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
Wanted any use the word whack the healthcare CEO whack
meaning kill herd destroy.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac Crime
Stories investigative reporter. Tell me about the three D gun
sometimes called a ghost gun.
Speaker 10 (31:53):
But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been
given the very specifics of what type of gun. We
know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact
name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive
amount of time and filament far more than any other.
Deliberator is the most common, and it's the easiest one
(32:13):
to print. It takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator
takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.
Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is
made on a three D printer. Tom, It's unserialized. That's
why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as
is long gun, is shotgun under the bed? You think
it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got a
(32:46):
serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost
gun is un serialized.
Speaker 12 (32:55):
Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you
do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.
And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni
of course went to the lengths that he did to
make that gun, because that is the predetermined and premeditation
of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that gun
(33:16):
not being traced to him, and that is part of
this as well.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Tom Smith, you're exactly correct. To Joseph Scott Morgan, let
me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics
at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.
He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of
death sayings, and he's a star of hit podcast Body.
(33:42):
Back to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, what is a
suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.
Speaker 11 (33:53):
Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon
is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack
of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,
it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sound. So
what you want to do is reduce that sound that's
put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,
(34:15):
I'm glad that you have that image. You take a
close look at that weapon. There the end of that
muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that
it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor
is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.
It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you
(34:36):
want to knock down the sound, so it's not going
to draw attention to you when you fired this thing.
Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.
This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there
in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear
a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not
like it's portrayed in movies, okay, but it will reduce
(34:57):
the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it. And the purpose
of this is so that you're not going to draw
attention to any one. It does reduce, say, some of
the capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness
of it at a greater range. But this is not
a close range. As a matter of fact, if we
were to look at the body here, it would be
(35:20):
classified as indeterminate because you're not going to have any
kind of sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It will have
fallen away by that time, but this is not too
distant of a shot. You'll still have that same muzzle
velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl
McCollum is with us. Cheryl who has un serialized guns
and silencers.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Criminals, And maybe there's another thing. Even though this is
a three D printed weapon, it's still gonna lead marking
on casons and they're gonna be able to be, you know,
determined that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered Brian Thompson.
So forensically, it's not going to get you out of trouble.
(36:15):
They may not can trace it to a manufacturer, to
a bar that they can absolutely determine that that bullet
was fired by that weapon.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is
like a fish in water for you. Every day you
were getting off.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
The streets of Manhattan guns to match with bullets, bullets
that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
And Cheryl said it right.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
A bullet hurls down the barrel of.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
A gun, that gun may look like all the other
guns in the gun store showcase. But it's not because
inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in a certain
way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside
of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots down the barrel,
(37:13):
it is forever marked by those imperfections. So when you
take the murder weapon to the crime lab and you
shoot a bullet through the murder weapon, and you take
the known bullet dug out of the victim and you
put it under a microscope next to the one you
just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No other gun, be
(37:37):
it a three D printed gun, a grandma's Bessie's out
from under her her mattress, you can track and identify
like a fingerprint, that bullet came from that gun.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
Isn't that true?
Speaker 12 (37:54):
And that's the best way to say it. It's it's
the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in
the twist and all of that is what you match up.
And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable, you know,
to anyone else. It is strictly to that weapon that
you will match up the weapon. Take the round taken
out of the victim and match it up and that
(38:16):
is damaging when it comes to court.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are
fighting to the death in court to keep that jury
from every knowing of a ballistics match.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
That his three day pretty gun is the murder weapon.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Listen to Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan District Attorney, for.
Speaker 18 (38:40):
Nearly an hour we alledged to the definitet waited in
the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister Thompson
to appear. From six thirty eight am to six forty
four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance of
the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he saw
mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind.
(39:01):
We alleged he then took out a nine millimeter three
D printed ghost gun equipped with a three D printed
suppressor and shot him once in the back and once
in the leg.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, So what about his beach
bum life?
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Just before the assassination.
Speaker 7 (39:26):
Right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to
Asia and he went on a backpacking trip.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
The beach Bumb photos and the two thousand dollars month
eye Rise and the Frola King and Honolulu. Oh my goodness,
he might as well bucked up with the writz Caleb Brantley,
Daily Mail. The defense for Luigi Maggioni is also trying
to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards. He
(39:52):
had special guards behind bars, so nothing would happen to
him like it did to Epstein. So let's first talk
about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who was minding Mangioni.
What did Manngioni allegedly say to Rivers, Nancy?
Speaker 6 (40:12):
Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he
had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being
compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media
was more focused on crime, and that when you looked
at social media, they were really more focused about the
healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.
(40:35):
This was really about.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Wow. Sounds like a confession to me, Sky lazarro Oopsie.
Speaker 15 (40:40):
Nancy, I agree and disagree.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Here's the problem.
Speaker 15 (40:43):
They put these guys in a situation like that in
solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the
other thing is that we know these officers didn't document
any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes seven
times an hour about what he's doing and his well being,
and he don't write down anything like he just made
an admission.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Sky Lazarro, Did you say it's a problem he's being
held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,
Brian Thompson, except his is a casket.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
So you're telling me.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazarro,
that he's the one that's being tormented.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
You know what else?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a
Perception by Aldus Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug
trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not
read the book. But there is another guard that he
(41:45):
talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in listening.
Speaker 14 (41:49):
Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That
doesn't stop Man Jonny from telling Henry he was caught
with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to
murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Niphelo challenges Henry, saying,
so he just blurted out to you that he had
a three D printed pistol. Henry Drily replies yes too.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Doctor Angela Arnold joining us.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
She's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at
Angela Arnold dot com foreim Professor Psychiatry.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
It goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Former medical director at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady,
which never has a lack of business. I found a
lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Why is this so hard?
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I've met a jury's not going to have a hard
time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who has had a
lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his guards why they're
his new friends.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
They would never betray him, right?
Speaker 6 (42:49):
Yeap?
Speaker 9 (42:50):
Oh sure?
Speaker 19 (42:51):
And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort
of personality disorder in which he thinks about him so
an awful lot. So he really doesn't He may not
see that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't
suffered any consequences for any of his actions in the past,
and so that would make him more likely to almost
(43:14):
be bragging about what he's done and to let other
people know what he's done. This is typical for his
behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective thirty years now,
star co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom, What is
wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just
get away with everything? Anything and everything they can confess
they can stay. Yeah, they caught me with the three
(43:47):
D printed gun, which is the murder weapon.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
What is wrong with them?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement sometimes does
them end? Because they think they can buy off everybody
that everybody wants.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
To be their friend, but these two guards do not
want to be his friend.
Speaker 12 (44:08):
Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You
know they've gotten what they want, did they'd either pay
for it or the power that they have has influenced
someone's decision into what they're getting or what they're doing.
And they just think that holds true for every aspect
of their life, including killing someone. I mean, that's how
deranged they are when it comes to the entitlement that
(44:30):
they believe they are are owed when it comes to
murder or you know, killing a bride. We did that show.
You know, it's just constant and it just keeps coming up,
and it's absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Tom.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
I want you to look at a picture if I
can get the controller to put it up for me,
dig through those files. I want to see the picture
allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up the three Day
with the silencer on it, pointing directly at Brian Thompson's back.
According to police, he waited an hour for just the
(45:07):
right moment. There's his backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's.
There's his outfit which he had with him. There's the
three D weapon.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
And let's look at Brian Thompson walking along early morning
going to a work conference. He shot in the back
right there.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
And I'm not going to play that when he actually
gets shot, because someday, somehow his boys might look this
up online and I don't want this to be stuck
in their memory. Calla Brantley. Were any of men g
(45:51):
Only's family members in court and were any of the victims'
family members in court this week?
Speaker 6 (45:59):
Not that we know of Nancy, but a lot of
Luigi's supporters And one thing, have you heard of pretty privilege?
Because it absolutely feels like Luigi is benefiting from that
by having hordes of fans because he is a handsome
man that he is benefiting from pretty privilege. And I'm
sure his defense team is happy that they have a
(46:22):
relatively attractive man as a client.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
Kiala, I don't find him attractive.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Every time I look at him, I see a tail
swishing in the back and two horns right here.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
That's what I see.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
What is happening in court this week is critical. If
this evidence is suppressed, there may be no justice in
this case. A man shut down on the sidewalk on
video and no justice. We wait as justice of folds.
(46:56):
But now we remember an American Hero Reserve Deputy Sheriff
John Stall, Jefferson County Sheriff's Indiana, killed in a line
of duty after fifteen years of service, leaving behind a
devastated wife turned widd American Hero Reserve Deputy Shriff John Stall,
(47:17):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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