September 19, 2025 • 46 mins
A preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nikki Cheng Saelee McCain, has brought many witnesses to the stand, from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.
Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of his wife. As of today, Nikki is still missing and presumed dead.
Redding Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger said Nikki's sister Chloe Saelee texted with Nikki regularly, and there was always a response until May 19th. Family members talked with Nikki on May 18, but on May 19, she never answered a text from Chloe.
Nikki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and McCain going so far as to point a gun directly at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.
Detective Maul played an audio recording in court of Nikki McCain describing being assaulted by her husband, Tyler McCain. The recording was done in a hospital emergency room, where Nikki showed up to give the police a statement.
Nikki says, "He pushed me on the ground. And he started hitting me. He was just enraged; he was so angry."
Nikki estimates the attack lasted three hours.
If the case against him moves forward, it will be the first "no body" murder trial in Shasta County history. Tyler McCain has pleaded not guilty to the charges.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Kaye Ford - Nikki's sister
- Chloe Saelee - Nikki's sister
- Philip Dubé - Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law; Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy; X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Brian Fitzgibbons - VP of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, Kingsman Philanthropic's 2022 rescue missions of women and children in Ukraine, Iraq War Veteranide_security
- Jeff Gentry – Forensics-Crime Scene Investigator, Certified Bloodstain Pattern Analyst and Death Investigator, Former Toxicology Lab Analyst; Author: “A Visual Guide to Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Bloodstain Pattern Analysis for Death and Crime Scene Investigators;” TikTok: @jeffreygentryBPA, Facebook: Jeff Gentry Bloodstain Pattern Analyst
- Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Devastated sisters here grizzly facts in the missing Nikki Chang
case now upgraded to murder, But where's the body?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Mom's Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road.
Nicky's case is a homicide investigation.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
There are several assaults on Niki.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior
to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
She thought she was going to die.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Where is NICKI?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
A brutal assault at the hands of this guy I'm talking.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
To us, Nicky. I mean, uh, the first role I
would like to play for starts office. I for getting
involved any efforts to.
Speaker 6 (01:22):
Get my health on my wife phone, Uh, we missed you.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I really.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
I haven't been in the public, guys, and I've been
done very well with it. I apologize every one, especially
my children, my wife's family.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
My name is as well. I'm just hearing the party.
Anything that I can do.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
You don't know what to say, your wife, the mother
of your children, has disappeared, and you don't know what
to say. What a crop of steaming bas Dubey with me?
If it's attorney Philip Dubay. Here he is pleading for
(02:21):
his watch. Attorney, He's like, uh, I'm sorry, I've got
my thumb up my rerant.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I mean, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
Well, first of all, it's not as if he had
an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in
front of a camera as if he's doing a screen
test for an Academy Award film. It's ridiculous. The guy
was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was
going to be asked. He didn't know what he was
going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and
(02:47):
have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything,
to say. So to say that that implies guilt.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Here we go again, Here we yes, there she.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Goes say, and all of a splendor and glory of
Philip Debay trying to explain away a defendant, in this case,
a murder suspect, you know, doctor Bethany Marshall, try as
he might, Philip de Bay cannot explain away why the
(03:20):
husband of the missing mom, who's she's had all these
children by him. He beat her to a pulp before
and was about to testify against him when she went missing.
He stands up and goes, well, I don't know what
to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead, his children
(03:43):
don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what to say.
You know what, when John David disappeared in the middle
of a big, huge babies or.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
US warehouse, I knew what to say.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I screamed, my baby's missing, locked the doors.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I screamed it over and over. It's like a siren
in my throat. I akny what to say, Nancy.
Speaker 8 (04:04):
He's unable to say anything because he has the share
of the prosecutor law enforcement standing next to him. And
what I mean by this is when he was alone
with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He
would sit on her back, he would beat her. He
put a towel over her face, pour water on it
to the point where she felt she was suffocating and
(04:25):
couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face.
She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and
lacerations on her face, and yet when he's in front
of law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he
is at home. So I see with these types of
(04:46):
men who are abusive, that they are very powerful when
they are alone with a small, fragile woman, but when
they come face to face with consequences, they kind of collapse.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Let's watch him implode again. I mean, I could just
watch this all night watch I do.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Really know what's saying.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
I haven't been in the public guys, and I've been
done very well with it. I apologize to everyone, especially
my children. My wife's sailing my days one as well.
I'm just hearing support such anything that I can do.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I want to do that apologizing for what that's certainly
a Freudian slip, apologizing for what did anybody think to
ask him that? Now you heard doctor Bethany Marshall describe
me a horrible incident of abuse.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
This is how it started.
Speaker 9 (05:45):
Wednesday night, around eight thirty. Nikki Sale McCain is in
her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of thirteen years,
Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood for no
apparent reason. Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Nikki,
holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling
what are you doing? Nicky says, Tyler McCain's eyes are
glazed over. Nicky tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work,
(06:07):
and he holds her down and begins hitting her in
the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period,
with McCain binding Nicki's wrists and ankles together with tape,
putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly,
rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain sits on
her back, pulling her hair back, forcefully pulling her head back,
and telling her he's going to kill her.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call
it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault. But it doesn't
end there.
Speaker 9 (06:37):
After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife,
the mother of his four children, hitting her about the
face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair,
and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and
goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings,
Nicki grabs a rope runs outside and gets in her car.
Tyler McCain chases Nicki out of the house and jumps
(06:57):
onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop.
Ignoring his demands, Nikki flees to the safety of her
sister's home.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
In Reading, What a Psycho, he jumps on her car
to stop her from leaving, after he's been beating her
and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this
time Dave mac joined us Crime Story's investigative reporter. This
time is different because she reports the violence, She reports
(07:24):
the beatings, and they get photos of the beatings.
Speaker 10 (07:27):
Nancy in this particular case, you know we said, she
runs to her sister's house. In Reading, it's her sister
that lovingly says, We've got to take you to the hospital.
We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know,
these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital, she
makes the call and a police officer arrives, and the
Ted detective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to
(07:51):
actually record exactly word for word Nicky Salee McCain describing
this horrific attack, how how long it took. It was
a twenty minute long interview with her talking and It's
just it's shocking Nancy, how she described what she had
just endured.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay, now, what were you saying, Philip Dubay about how
this is not a screen test in Hollywood? I think
I know why he couldn't speak at that presser.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
All this was rushing through his mind.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
If he has any conscious at all, or maybe he's
like a frog.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Have you ever held a frog.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And looked at it in the face, It just blinks.
It's cold blooded creature, no emotions.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Is that what's happening?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
No, he does have.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
An emotionally low IQ, but I don't know why, and
I have no actual evidence of this, but he reminds
me of a classic meth addict. That's somebody who flies
off the handle after a lengthy fix, and when he's
trying to chase the dragon and trying to get another fix,
he can't get it, so he acts out in a
fit of peek and rage. And I have a feeling
(08:56):
that this incident, if it's in fact true, was drum
put him up.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
You know, Deby, It's amazing how you can do a
hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood screen test to
he's a myth head. There's no evidence at all that
he's a meth head. But I guess you're digging really
deep to explain.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
His behavior at the presser.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know what technical legal term, screw his behavior at
the pressor. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all,
why there's a preliminary hearing? I it confounds me. It's
the state's worst a nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the
(09:44):
state can do an information just write up on a
notepad what the charges are going to be, or preferably
a grand jury that takes about five minutes. This preliminary
hearing requires the state to put up witness is to
prove pc probable cause for the judge to bind the
(10:05):
case over or send it to the correct court. For instance,
you would send a murder case to traffic court, it
would go to a felony superior court where only felonies
are tried.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
First swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
That's what's happening. Now.
Speaker 9 (10:28):
Listen the preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will
go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicki
Chang Sale. McCain has brought many witnesses to the stand,
from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.
Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence
for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of
his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it
(10:48):
will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta
County history. As of today, Nicki is still missing and
presumed dead.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well brace yourself, Shasta County. Other jurisdictions have had plenty
of no body murder cases. So you know what, get
with it or you won't be with it much longer.
Elected District Attorney Joining us now two very special guests
who have been to hell and back seeking justice for
their sister, Nikki.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
With us Ka Ford and Chloe Sealey.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
They have been during excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Sisters, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I've just got to know, off the top, how do
you go home and actually fall asleep after hearing this evidence?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
K Ford? How do you decompress after all of this?
Speaker 11 (11:45):
Each day we've you know, our spouses have been very
supportive and we're also busy with kids activity, so a
lot of times that's been very helpful to refocus our
thoughts a little bit. But it is that what's laying down,
it's taking all the information in is a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Now joining us Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security.
Fitz Gibbons leads a team of highly specialized investigators who
focus and specialize in locating missing people.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
All around the world, and you can find him at
uspasecurity dot com.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Former marine and Iraqi war veteran translation, He's seen it all, Fitzgibbons.
You know what, here's a problem. One of the problems
with a no body case. As Dubet has pointed out
on many occasions, I've seen this trick done in court
where in the closing argument the defensial turning will say, hey,
(12:53):
is that the victim coming in the door right now?
And they wait to see if the jury turned to look,
and if they do, the defense will argue say, you're
not even convinced she's dead, much less who did it?
But don't you think by now fits Gibbons, she would
(13:14):
have been.
Speaker 12 (13:14):
Found absolutely, Nancy, And you know this has been well
over a year that we've been looking for Nicki, and
what I'll tell you is, in this preliminary hearing, the
DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement from
various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case against
Tyler McCain and the case forensic case to prove that
(13:39):
there was in fact a murder that took place. So
these crucial things have happened. On top of that, you
have five members of McCain's friends and family.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
That have taken the witness stand and.
Speaker 12 (13:50):
Their stories have contradicted statements that they've made to the police.
So I think things are going very well for the
district attorney here to get that probable from the judge.
Speaker 13 (14:01):
Writing Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says, Nicki's sister Chloe Saley
texted with Nikki regularly and there was always a response
until May nineteenth. Family members talk with Niki on May eighteenth,
but on May nineteenth, she never answered a text from Chloe.
Nicki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and
McCain going so far as to point a gun directly
(14:22):
at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.
Speaker 9 (14:25):
Yepanty Alissio Brito says he found Nicki's pickup on Highway
thirty six the night of May twenty fifth. Shockingly, the
deputy says there was a strong odor, the smell of
death coming from the covered truckbed. The smell of decomposing
flesh coming from inside the truck bed is coupled with
a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also in the
truck bed a white sheet with blood stains and dark
(14:48):
colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood in
the truck bed and strands of dark hair found underneath
a piece of trim. The blood and hair belonged to
Nicki Salia McCain and during.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
This preliminary hearing, including grizzly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has
been excruciating for Nicky's sisters.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Straight back out to Chloe and Kay.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment in the
preliminary hearing?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I mean, I don't know if you are all like me, but.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
My first brush with the law, the first time I
had ever been in a courtroom, was that my fiance's
murder trial. A lot of it I still can't remember,
but the parts I do remember, they changed my life.
Forever and there's no turning back after what happened in court.
(15:44):
What has been the most vivid moment in your mind
in the courtroom so far?
Speaker 14 (15:49):
There are actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs
they played a recording of Nicky's voice about what happened
that night. That was really hard to hear because it
was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to
hear her voice for such a long time. And then
also just the evidence about how much blood was in
the back of that truck bed. That hit me really
(16:10):
hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then
was in the back of that truck and just you know,
when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder
and that they're never coming back again.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate
to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed.
Speaker 14 (16:31):
I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever
they did to her, I think that she was placed
in the back of that truck bed to die.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
To k for Nikki's sister.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Also, what has been the most disturbing moment during the
preliminary preliminary hearing for you.
Speaker 11 (16:48):
Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell and.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Kind of those details.
Speaker 11 (16:59):
They she did such a good job with being so
professional and just very scientific with it. But you know,
just thinking of our sister in that state was difficult
to hear because you know, at the end of the day,
this hearing has been about decomposition of her body potentially,
(17:21):
so those details were you know, just kind of thinking
that it's we're describing our sister.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
That was pretty grizzly for me.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did
you learn, okay about the garage floor.
Speaker 11 (17:43):
It sounded like a lot of activity happened, witness testimony
about looking.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Like it had been cleaned.
Speaker 11 (17:52):
Also the blue star light being used by the evidence technician.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Indicating that there was blood.
Speaker 11 (18:00):
They didn't they didn't specify it was if it was
animal or human. But as far as I knew, they
weren't butchers, and they weren't you know, they weren't handling
animals in the garage, So that that to to me,
definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene.
And and it's not a not a place that I
(18:24):
remember them cleaning a lot, So to have that the
garage cleaned.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's pretty telling for me.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
When you refer to they. Okay, who are you talking about?
Speaker 11 (18:35):
Well, the the witness testimonies so far, have you know
indicated you know, the people living there, which would be
Tyler and may maybe someone who helped him. But so
far the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe,
does he even look at you.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
In the courtroom? Chloe?
Speaker 14 (18:58):
No, he doesn't look anyone.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, what about it? Kay? Does he even meet
your gaze?
Speaker 6 (19:04):
No?
Speaker 11 (19:05):
He for the most part has his head down in
his hands, and he hardly looks up, even at the witnesses.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
I did notice.
Speaker 11 (19:15):
There was a witness last week that he had his
head up more than he had with any other witnesses,
and as well as when they were displaying some pictures
of his home, he did look up at the projector
screen during those pictures. Other than that, no eye contact
with us was lever.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole other
thing if you're not beating someone less powerful than you,
much much smaller, all less cunning than you are. When
you're actually court with equals, it's a lot more difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
To be a bully.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
And now joining US special guest Jeffrey Gentry, Forensic certified
Bloodstained Pattern Analysts, Senior crime analyst and death investigator, former
toxicology lab analyst and author of forensic science Applications to
death and crime scene investigations, and specifically author of blood
(20:12):
stain pattern analysis. Jeffrey Gentry, I just want you to
hear one more fact about the blood pattern.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Listen.
Speaker 13 (20:21):
During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put
up on a lift where investigators discover blood pulled on
top of the fuel tank. Further inspection reveals there was
so much blood some of it dripped down from the
fuel tank. On the passenger side of the truck. They
found a plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern
Comfort whiskey.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Dear Lord and has an Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
That mass quantity of blood, Jeffrey Gentry can only mean
one thing.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
But any down the street knows that.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Give me your analysis about what was found in the
truck bed and beyond.
Speaker 15 (21:04):
These are all bad things, man station. So when you're
working a no body homicide case, you always have to
consider where the blood is found, and then also the
quantity of blood that is found, because these are the
things that you're going to want to use with evidence
to contend it the jury that the person is dead
even though there's no body. So blood on bed sheets
that's always a bad thing. You would expect blood to
(21:26):
be in bathrooms, kitchens, or bathroom sinks, things where blood
might normally be found, but you don't expect large quantities
of blood to be saturated into sheets, especially sheets that
are tied up in knots. That's one of the ways
that we actually transport bodies from crimekeenings is you wrap
them up in the sheet you knotted up. Then you
put them inside of a body bag. It makes it
(21:46):
easier to carry a body. So that is very bad
when you're looking at a person being missing and then
you're finding blood up socrated into bed sheets, and then
also the quantity of blood that's being poured out of
the truck bed. Again, didn't have blood in the back
of the truck bed, and you should absolutely not have
blood in sufficient quantities to pour out of trucks. And
(22:07):
then they touched on also the smell of decomposition. That's
the smell that I, of course smell many times, did
thousands of death pieces, and it's something that you don't
forget others are smelling decomposition. Again, that's another piece of
evidence to suggest that this person is dead.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Even though you don't have a bob straight out to
Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter, I want to go
back to what's happening. In the preliminary hearing, Tyler mcchain,
Nicky's abusive husband, had a major outburst where he stands
up starts screaming and cursing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
What happened Well, in.
Speaker 10 (22:42):
Court, they showed pictures from the first church of the
house of Nicki and Tyler's house, and in that first
video shot you could tell that the house is very messy.
There weren't a lot of pictures hanging up. But what
he lost it over was the pictures that were shown
from the second visit. After Nikki has been reported missing
(23:04):
and the police go back in and are searching the
home again. This time they find that the home is
no longer messy. It's been picked up and cleaned. It
has been staged with family photos now hanging on the walls.
That's where he lost it, Nancy, because they were pointing
out that, hey man, when we came here the first time,
right after she was reported.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Missing, none of this was going on.
Speaker 10 (23:26):
This place was trash, but now look at it after
she's gone, there's pictures hanging on the walls. So that's
why he lost it.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
He stated Chloe that for a large portion of the
hearing he would sit or he sits with his head
down looking down.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But isn't it true.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
He had a major outburst, yelling and cursing, Yes, he did.
Speaker 14 (23:48):
It was when Cay mentioned. It was when it was
pictures of his house and the evidence technician she had
mentioned that how the house had looked differ from the
first raid versus the second raid, and she just noticed
that was unusual because when they went back the second
time for the raid, they noticed that the living room
(24:10):
was it was all cleaned up, it was very nice
and meet and put together, and there were family photos
hung up, and she just said she found that kind
of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word, and
he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Okay, I believe his exact words are along the lines
of I don't even know why I'm even here.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
This is bulls, This is bullshit.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
This is him standing up and yelling, and the judge
had to call for a recess so his lawyer could
calm him down. I mean, kay, if he would act
like that in open court in front of a judge,
what would he do when he is alone with Nikki?
Speaker 11 (24:49):
Yeah, that outburst is pretty telling and it wasn't mean
maybe the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty
telling because he had been keeping his composure pretty well
throughout the hearings, so that outburst was definitely a surprise.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
And it was, like Chloe said, it.
Speaker 11 (25:07):
Was comparisons from the first search or raid compared to
the one they went to about nine ten months later,
and she commented the evidence technician commented on what a
difference it was it with a home was in disarray previously,
and then when she came back, it was like Lue said,
nice and tidy with family.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Pictures all over the walls.
Speaker 11 (25:28):
And yeah, his outbursts was asking what was wrong with
having pictures.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Of this family on the wall, and then what you
had said.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You know, I'm very curious. Bryan Fitzgibbons, I agree with you.
I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But
at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki,
combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.
Speaker 10 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Connect the dots here, right.
Speaker 12 (25:58):
We have a tremendous amount of forensic analysis that's been
done on this vehicle, as testified by various members of
law enforcement. That's that's undoubtedly what led Shasta County just
about a couple months ago to make the pronouncement that
they believe that this is now a murder case. So,
(26:19):
you know, I think that there's sufficient evidence here to
say that.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I want to talk about the DNA evidence.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It's my understanding that and Dave Matt correct me if
I'm wrong. That the sheet found in the bed of
the truck covered in blood indicated by looking at the
sheet that three of the four corners.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Had been tied in a knot.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I would argue, and Jeff Gentry to you that they
hitched people McCain got to help him get rid of
the evidence. Each one took a corner of the sheet.
Because DNA from three separate people are in each corner
(27:07):
of the sheet where the knots have been tied, how
does that work, Jeffrey.
Speaker 15 (27:13):
That's exactly what you want to look at is where
is the DNA on these sheets and who was involved.
So if you have a knot on every single corner,
that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved,
that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I
mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy.
I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab
(27:34):
a corner of the sheet and you transport them to
where they need to go, and all at that time
you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course
I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people most
likely were not. And then if you're sweating and you're
doing something active, there's more of a chance that you're
going to transfer DNA to whatever you're touching.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Straight out to Chloe and ka Ken, either of you
tell me about the testimony of Louis Braha.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Yeah, Louis he started his testimony.
Speaker 11 (28:03):
We only heard it a little bit of it, but
he had been he had an ongoing relationship with Ninki
and it sounds like it went back as far as
about a year or so before she went missing, and
he very very calm, very seems like a very nice gentleman.
(28:25):
He said they had met at his place of work,
which was at a.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Cell phone store, and they become friends.
Speaker 11 (28:31):
He helped them with their with their cel phone service,
and I think he noticed. I think he kind of
noticed NICKI needed help, and I think he I think
he felt bad for her.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
And I think in.
Speaker 11 (28:48):
That with with how how calm his demeanor was, with
how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki felt
like this was someone she could turn to when she
needed it.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
There is also Justin Corn. What do we know about
Justin's testimony.
Speaker 14 (29:07):
I felt like he was very nervous. I feel like
maybe he might have known more than he was letting on.
But I definitely I hope that he was being honest.
But I feel like he wasn't being as honest as
because I feel like he does know more.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Justin Karen lived in a trailer on the property. That
means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also,
they played a video of him talking to police and
in it. In this video that was played in court,
Karen says.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
That he was asked by McCain a few.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Days after Nicky goes missing to help disappear.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
The Chevy Avalanche and whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Was inside of it, and they pointed out that Tyler
McCain is letting him live on the property for free.
Then he starts crying in the video when cops press
him for information, saying his mom lived with him, he
didn't have anywhere to go if something happened to him.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I mean, that's what it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you
to describe that what happened.
Speaker 11 (30:18):
It sounded like mister Karen is kind of in a
dependent situation with Tyler.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
He lives on the property, and.
Speaker 11 (30:26):
It does sound like he is pretty much living rent free,
you know, and he was kind of a right hand
man for Tyler. He helps around the house on the property,
fixed cars whatever Tyler needed. And it does sound like
without Tyler's I guess graciousness to let him live there,
(30:47):
he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere to park
his trailer. And he did mention his mom is not
doing well and his mom is pretty dependent on him to,
you know, provide a place live and he does take
care of him, so, you know, it sounds like mister Karen,
unfortunately was just.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Pushed in a corner.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
I mean, he's when you're dependent on someone, it's hard
to say no when they need your help.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I understand that, But getting rid of a dead body
is a whole other can of worms. Okay, that's more
than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice,
tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more.
I'd be crying too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson.
That is the girlfriend, right.
Speaker 14 (31:37):
They are no longer together, but they were dating.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
At the time. What did she say? What was her testimony?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
She did testify that on the night of.
Speaker 11 (31:48):
Or May seventeenth into the early morning hours of the eighteenth,
she did hear some movement in the back of the
house and on the back porch, which is where the
master bedroom backs, and that's also where Nicki had parked
her car closer to the back master bedroom door.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
She said during those hours she did hear.
Speaker 11 (32:09):
Some movement and including a thud towards the backwards of
the house in the rear of the truck in that
to me sounded like the bed area of the truck.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Now, I want to clarify, Felicia Nelson is justin Karen's girlfriend,
not Tyler McCain's girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And she also testified she.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Was in the trailer and justin Karen's trailer, and it
was not parked very far from the McCain home at all,
and she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked.
She later described a thud heard in the early morning
hours May eighteen. May eighteen is the day NICKI goes missing,
(32:54):
So that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney cross
examining all the witnesses? Yes, he was, yes, And how
did that pan out?
Speaker 4 (33:09):
He was? I feel like he was strategic.
Speaker 11 (33:11):
He did try to poke holes in some of their
testimony or or or and I don't know the correct termology,
but almost sometimes you know, someone said it was ten minutes,
he might say, could you know, do you mean.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Fifteen minutes because you had said fifteen minutes before.
Speaker 11 (33:30):
Things like that to kind of confuse as the person
and make them feel, you know, like maybe they.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Didn't remember correctly. But yeah, it's pretty crafty as.
Speaker 11 (33:40):
Far as you know, the cross and clarifying specific things
that they had testified to.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Now, another point of justin Karen's testimony that I found
really interesting is that he stated he found Nicky's driver's
license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch and
that he gave them to Tyler McCain. And at the
time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not
(34:09):
burned or.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Destroyed in any way.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
They were then later the driver's license was later found
burned in Tyler McCain's wallet.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Isn't that true? Yes, what can you.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Tell me about I was found in Tyler McCain's mother's home.
Speaker 14 (34:27):
There was any white comforter in their detached garage that
had a lot of burn marks on it and them
there was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared
to be burned as well.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong
to Nicky?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
It was hard to tell because it wasn't a pile.
Speaker 11 (34:46):
It looked denim like to me, but if it could
have just been, you know, the the thread material.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
But I did not specifically recognize the sweater.
Speaker 11 (34:57):
But Nikki had a lot of clothes, so I wouldn't
recognize every piece that she had anyway.
Speaker 14 (35:03):
And there was also a note that was found to
tell me about the note? Okay, do you have it
write it was in a bin.
Speaker 11 (35:09):
It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
It was on a pink post it note. And the
odd thing is, throughout the search.
Speaker 11 (35:16):
They had found numerous just notes lying around Nikki and
Tyler's home, and this note happened to be in Jeanette's
garage and it read remember that feeling when you could
be Jesus for a day on drugs. Who wrote that
it looks like it could have been Tyler's handwriting, But.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
They didn't. They didn't.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
They didn't say, fine, how did you guys?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Endure the testimony about the discovery of the truck and
what was found in the truck bed, that.
Speaker 14 (35:51):
Was probably one of the toughest things for me. I
just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me,
like clutching onto his hand because it was just it
was just a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
The deputy stated under oath there was a strong odor,
the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed.
There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a
white sheet with bloodstains and dark colored hair, and Nikki
had beautiful, long, dark hair. There are smears of dried
(36:28):
blood and the truck bed and there's dark hair found
under a piece on the trim on the outside of
the truck. It is it has been definitively proven that
the blood and the hair belonged to your sister NICKI.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
And my final question to you, kay.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Ford, when you hear this technical evidence about blood and
hair and a comparison lab comparison proving that it's nick Keys,
do you let your mind go to how that blood
got there and how her hair ended up in the
trim of the foot of the truck.
Speaker 11 (37:16):
So it's, like I said, it's just grizzly to think
that that's what happened to her, you know, to even
kind of imagine it's.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Difficult specifically about Louis Philip Dubay, the witness. Now he's
saying he had a romantic relationship with Niki Chang. I
guess he is saying that now that his DNA is
on the sheet, right, he's saying that it's from an
(37:50):
earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the crime
lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Right, So if his DNA is over in one of
those knots tied.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
He's going to be proven to be a liar debay exactly.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California,
in order to get that defense, you have to have
more than just motive means an opportunity for someone else
to have committed the crime.
Speaker 5 (38:22):
There has to.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Be some other independent evidence linking that third party to
the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at
the scene where the death purportedly occurred, that is enough
to get that third party culpability instruction, and particularly at
a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court
(38:44):
that the death was at the hands of somebody other
than the defendant. The other problem I think the case
has so far, we're not hearing that there was an
unsurvivable loss of blood.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I find this really hard to believe, doctor Bethany Marshall.
Now that Nikki Tang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing
about a sex affair.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Is that just to conveniently.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Explain away why his DNA is on the shape he
used to transport her dead body. Nancy abuse victims do
not have affairs. They're terrified to even smile at somebody
in public. If the abuser is looking at them, the
abuser questions, where did you have lunch?
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Did you talk to somebody? What did you say about them?
Speaker 8 (39:28):
Abusers are pathologically jealous, so no, I have a hard
time believing that she would have risked her life by
having an affairs.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
Nikki, I'm the first, thanks office, I forget involved.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Any efforts to get my health. My phone.
Speaker 9 (40:06):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace, Ripley says, it wouldn't start.
McCain put diesel in the gas powered truck and it
had rolled down a gradual slope. Ripley says, Justin Karen
asked McCain if there was anything in the truck that
needed to disappear, and did the truck need to disappear?
Both times McCain answered yes. The defense asked Ripley if
(40:29):
he was offered amnesty for his testimony. Ripley said he
didn't need it because he hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley
says he met with his nephew later that evening at
his trailer on McCain's property and told him he wanted
nothing to do with whatever was going on. He didn't
know until the next day the avalanche was reported missing
until he saw it on the news the next day.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Philip Dubay, defense attorney, how can the defense possibly fight
back against Ripley's testimony? Ripley says he asked the husband McCain,
is there anything in the truck we need to get
rid of? And McKain says yes. And he says, do
we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain
says yes. What do you do with that? That's just
(41:10):
like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.
Speaker 7 (41:12):
Well, that presupposes that you believe the witness. In order
for that to have any merrit or any weight, you
have to find that the testimony is credible. And what
do we know that you had other people who were
intimate with her? And I find it astonishing to suggest
that it could have only been mister McCain. Normally, if
there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the
(41:35):
fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on
that sheet, I don't care what anybody says when they're
on the stand. Forensics are the best I witness debate.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
The DNA is in the corners of the edges of
the sheet. There clearly Dave mac where the sheet has
been nodded to help carry Nikki's body. Explaining the DNA
found on the sheets, Dave mac nancy.
Speaker 10 (42:05):
When they got that sheet out, they were examining each
of those corners. As you mentioned, there are three knots
in this sheet. In the corners they've got separate DNA
profiles from different individuals in those knots. They're not all
the same. So you've got three different people leaving their
(42:26):
DNA on the knots that are tied in the sheep
that also has Nikky Salee McCain's blood and hair. So
and of course we've got her husband, his is all
over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned.
So it's the knots that were tied by these individuals
in the sheet. By the way, it was found in
(42:47):
the back of her truck that was sitting on the
side of the road with a cover over the trunk bed.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Okay, Jeffrey, gentry, blood spatter analyst, you would have.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
A field with that.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
And did you hear Debey trying to tune up and
state that there wasn't enough blood to prove she's dead.
Speaker 15 (43:05):
One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a
truck dead, There shouldn't be blood all over a sheet,
and then there definitely should not be enough blood in
body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is
very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a
person is not dead after finding all of that, you're
absolutely wrong.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Question to you, Brian is Gibbons.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
The sisters have been through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing.
Isn't it true, Brian that family members want desperately to
believe their loved one is out there and they can
and will be found. How do you break that to
someone that they're never going to be found.
Speaker 12 (43:44):
Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when
this forensic evidence and the witness statements, but by the way,
lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased.
You know, this has got to be just a horrific
experience through this preliminary hearing for Nicki's family to sit
(44:07):
through listening to all this evidence brought before them.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are
enduring it. I mean I only sat through a very
short portion when I testified at my fiancees murder trial.
I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're
doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony
about Nicki's hair and blood.
Speaker 14 (44:28):
It's definitely difficult. I just remember I have to do this.
I have to say this because I have to be
strong for Nicki's kids, because I want to know what
happened and I want to know what they did to her.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Joining me k Ford and Chloe Saley as difficult as horrible.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
As it is for them.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
They are enduring gut wrenching and graphic testimony in court
and they are representing their sister Niki, and it ain't
over yet. Nikee sisters, thank you for being with us.
We wait as justice unfolds, and now we remember an
(45:10):
American hero, Officer Hunter Simonsick, Kansas CITYPD, killed in the
line of duty at age twenty six, leaving behind heartbroken
parents Ron and Christine. American hero. We honor Officer Hunter Simonsig.
Thank you to our guests, especially sisters Kay and Chloe.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Nancy Grace signing off goodbye Unt
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Devastated sisters here grizzly facts in the missing Nikki Chang
case now upgraded to murder, But where's the body?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Mom's Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road.
Nicky's case is a homicide investigation.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
There are several assaults on Niki.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior
to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
She thought she was going to die.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Where is NICKI?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
A brutal assault at the hands of this guy I'm talking.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
To us, Nicky. I mean, uh, the first role I
would like to play for starts office. I for getting
involved any efforts to.
Speaker 6 (01:22):
Get my health on my wife phone, Uh, we missed you.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
I really.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
I haven't been in the public, guys, and I've been
done very well with it. I apologize every one, especially
my children, my wife's family.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
My name is as well. I'm just hearing the party.
Anything that I can do.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
You don't know what to say, your wife, the mother
of your children, has disappeared, and you don't know what
to say. What a crop of steaming bas Dubey with me?
If it's attorney Philip Dubay. Here he is pleading for
(02:21):
his watch. Attorney, He's like, uh, I'm sorry, I've got
my thumb up my rerant.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I mean, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 7 (02:27):
Well, first of all, it's not as if he had
an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in
front of a camera as if he's doing a screen
test for an Academy Award film. It's ridiculous. The guy
was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was
going to be asked. He didn't know what he was
going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and
(02:47):
have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything,
to say. So to say that that implies guilt.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Here we go again, Here we yes, there she.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Goes say, and all of a splendor and glory of
Philip Debay trying to explain away a defendant, in this case,
a murder suspect, you know, doctor Bethany Marshall, try as
he might, Philip de Bay cannot explain away why the
(03:20):
husband of the missing mom, who's she's had all these
children by him. He beat her to a pulp before
and was about to testify against him when she went missing.
He stands up and goes, well, I don't know what
to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead, his children
(03:43):
don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what to say.
You know what, when John David disappeared in the middle
of a big, huge babies or.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
US warehouse, I knew what to say.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I screamed, my baby's missing, locked the doors.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I screamed it over and over. It's like a siren
in my throat. I akny what to say, Nancy.
Speaker 8 (04:04):
He's unable to say anything because he has the share
of the prosecutor law enforcement standing next to him. And
what I mean by this is when he was alone
with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He
would sit on her back, he would beat her. He
put a towel over her face, pour water on it
to the point where she felt she was suffocating and
(04:25):
couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face.
She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and
lacerations on her face, and yet when he's in front
of law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he
is at home. So I see with these types of
(04:46):
men who are abusive, that they are very powerful when
they are alone with a small, fragile woman, but when
they come face to face with consequences, they kind of collapse.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Let's watch him implode again. I mean, I could just
watch this all night watch I do.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Really know what's saying.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
I haven't been in the public guys, and I've been
done very well with it. I apologize to everyone, especially
my children. My wife's sailing my days one as well.
I'm just hearing support such anything that I can do.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I want to do that apologizing for what that's certainly
a Freudian slip, apologizing for what did anybody think to
ask him that? Now you heard doctor Bethany Marshall describe
me a horrible incident of abuse.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
This is how it started.
Speaker 9 (05:45):
Wednesday night, around eight thirty. Nikki Sale McCain is in
her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of thirteen years,
Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood for no
apparent reason. Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Nikki,
holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling
what are you doing? Nicky says, Tyler McCain's eyes are
glazed over. Nicky tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work,
(06:07):
and he holds her down and begins hitting her in
the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period,
with McCain binding Nicki's wrists and ankles together with tape,
putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly,
rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain sits on
her back, pulling her hair back, forcefully pulling her head back,
and telling her he's going to kill her.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call
it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault. But it doesn't
end there.
Speaker 9 (06:37):
After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife,
the mother of his four children, hitting her about the
face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair,
and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and
goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings,
Nicki grabs a rope runs outside and gets in her car.
Tyler McCain chases Nicki out of the house and jumps
(06:57):
onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop.
Ignoring his demands, Nikki flees to the safety of her
sister's home.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
In Reading, What a Psycho, he jumps on her car
to stop her from leaving, after he's been beating her
and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this
time Dave mac joined us Crime Story's investigative reporter. This
time is different because she reports the violence, She reports
(07:24):
the beatings, and they get photos of the beatings.
Speaker 10 (07:27):
Nancy in this particular case, you know we said, she
runs to her sister's house. In Reading, it's her sister
that lovingly says, We've got to take you to the hospital.
We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know,
these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital, she
makes the call and a police officer arrives, and the
Ted detective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to
(07:51):
actually record exactly word for word Nicky Salee McCain describing
this horrific attack, how how long it took. It was
a twenty minute long interview with her talking and It's
just it's shocking Nancy, how she described what she had
just endured.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Okay, now, what were you saying, Philip Dubay about how
this is not a screen test in Hollywood? I think
I know why he couldn't speak at that presser.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
All this was rushing through his mind.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
If he has any conscious at all, or maybe he's
like a frog.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Have you ever held a frog.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And looked at it in the face, It just blinks.
It's cold blooded creature, no emotions.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Is that what's happening?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
No, he does have.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
An emotionally low IQ, but I don't know why, and
I have no actual evidence of this, but he reminds
me of a classic meth addict. That's somebody who flies
off the handle after a lengthy fix, and when he's
trying to chase the dragon and trying to get another fix,
he can't get it, so he acts out in a
fit of peek and rage. And I have a feeling
(08:56):
that this incident, if it's in fact true, was drum
put him up.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
You know, Deby, It's amazing how you can do a
hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood screen test to
he's a myth head. There's no evidence at all that
he's a meth head. But I guess you're digging really
deep to explain.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
His behavior at the presser.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know what technical legal term, screw his behavior at
the pressor. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all,
why there's a preliminary hearing? I it confounds me. It's
the state's worst a nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the
(09:44):
state can do an information just write up on a
notepad what the charges are going to be, or preferably
a grand jury that takes about five minutes. This preliminary
hearing requires the state to put up witness is to
prove pc probable cause for the judge to bind the
(10:05):
case over or send it to the correct court. For instance,
you would send a murder case to traffic court, it
would go to a felony superior court where only felonies
are tried.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
First swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
That's what's happening. Now.
Speaker 9 (10:28):
Listen the preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will
go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicki
Chang Sale. McCain has brought many witnesses to the stand,
from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.
Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence
for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of
his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it
(10:48):
will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta
County history. As of today, Nicki is still missing and
presumed dead.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Well brace yourself, Shasta County. Other jurisdictions have had plenty
of no body murder cases. So you know what, get
with it or you won't be with it much longer.
Elected District Attorney Joining us now two very special guests
who have been to hell and back seeking justice for
their sister, Nikki.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
With us Ka Ford and Chloe Sealey.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
They have been during excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Sisters, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I've just got to know, off the top, how do
you go home and actually fall asleep after hearing this evidence?
Speaker 1 (11:40):
K Ford? How do you decompress after all of this?
Speaker 11 (11:45):
Each day we've you know, our spouses have been very
supportive and we're also busy with kids activity, so a
lot of times that's been very helpful to refocus our
thoughts a little bit. But it is that what's laying down,
it's taking all the information in is a lot.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Now joining us Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security.
Fitz Gibbons leads a team of highly specialized investigators who
focus and specialize in locating missing people.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
All around the world, and you can find him at
uspasecurity dot com.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Former marine and Iraqi war veteran translation, He's seen it all, Fitzgibbons.
You know what, here's a problem. One of the problems
with a no body case. As Dubet has pointed out
on many occasions, I've seen this trick done in court
where in the closing argument the defensial turning will say, hey,
(12:53):
is that the victim coming in the door right now?
And they wait to see if the jury turned to look,
and if they do, the defense will argue say, you're
not even convinced she's dead, much less who did it?
But don't you think by now fits Gibbons, she would
(13:14):
have been.
Speaker 12 (13:14):
Found absolutely, Nancy, And you know this has been well
over a year that we've been looking for Nicki, and
what I'll tell you is, in this preliminary hearing, the
DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement from
various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case against
Tyler McCain and the case forensic case to prove that
(13:39):
there was in fact a murder that took place. So
these crucial things have happened. On top of that, you
have five members of McCain's friends and family.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
That have taken the witness stand and.
Speaker 12 (13:50):
Their stories have contradicted statements that they've made to the police.
So I think things are going very well for the
district attorney here to get that probable from the judge.
Speaker 13 (14:01):
Writing Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says, Nicki's sister Chloe Saley
texted with Nikki regularly and there was always a response
until May nineteenth. Family members talk with Niki on May eighteenth,
but on May nineteenth, she never answered a text from Chloe.
Nicki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and
McCain going so far as to point a gun directly
(14:22):
at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.
Speaker 9 (14:25):
Yepanty Alissio Brito says he found Nicki's pickup on Highway
thirty six the night of May twenty fifth. Shockingly, the
deputy says there was a strong odor, the smell of
death coming from the covered truckbed. The smell of decomposing
flesh coming from inside the truck bed is coupled with
a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also in the
truck bed a white sheet with blood stains and dark
(14:48):
colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood in
the truck bed and strands of dark hair found underneath
a piece of trim. The blood and hair belonged to
Nicki Salia McCain and during.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
This preliminary hearing, including grizzly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has
been excruciating for Nicky's sisters.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Straight back out to Chloe and Kay.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment in the
preliminary hearing?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I mean, I don't know if you are all like me, but.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
My first brush with the law, the first time I
had ever been in a courtroom, was that my fiance's
murder trial. A lot of it I still can't remember,
but the parts I do remember, they changed my life.
Forever and there's no turning back after what happened in court.
(15:44):
What has been the most vivid moment in your mind
in the courtroom so far?
Speaker 14 (15:49):
There are actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs
they played a recording of Nicky's voice about what happened
that night. That was really hard to hear because it
was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to
hear her voice for such a long time. And then
also just the evidence about how much blood was in
the back of that truck bed. That hit me really
(16:10):
hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then
was in the back of that truck and just you know,
when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder
and that they're never coming back again.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate
to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed.
Speaker 14 (16:31):
I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever
they did to her, I think that she was placed
in the back of that truck bed to die.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
To k for Nikki's sister.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Also, what has been the most disturbing moment during the
preliminary preliminary hearing for you.
Speaker 11 (16:48):
Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell and.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Kind of those details.
Speaker 11 (16:59):
They she did such a good job with being so
professional and just very scientific with it. But you know,
just thinking of our sister in that state was difficult
to hear because you know, at the end of the day,
this hearing has been about decomposition of her body potentially,
(17:21):
so those details were you know, just kind of thinking
that it's we're describing our sister.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
That was pretty grizzly for me.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did
you learn, okay about the garage floor.
Speaker 11 (17:43):
It sounded like a lot of activity happened, witness testimony
about looking.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Like it had been cleaned.
Speaker 11 (17:52):
Also the blue star light being used by the evidence technician.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Indicating that there was blood.
Speaker 11 (18:00):
They didn't they didn't specify it was if it was
animal or human. But as far as I knew, they
weren't butchers, and they weren't you know, they weren't handling
animals in the garage, So that that to to me,
definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene.
And and it's not a not a place that I
(18:24):
remember them cleaning a lot, So to have that the
garage cleaned.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
It's pretty telling for me.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
When you refer to they. Okay, who are you talking about?
Speaker 11 (18:35):
Well, the the witness testimonies so far, have you know
indicated you know, the people living there, which would be
Tyler and may maybe someone who helped him. But so
far the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe,
does he even look at you.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
In the courtroom? Chloe?
Speaker 14 (18:58):
No, he doesn't look anyone.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, what about it? Kay? Does he even meet
your gaze?
Speaker 6 (19:04):
No?
Speaker 11 (19:05):
He for the most part has his head down in
his hands, and he hardly looks up, even at the witnesses.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
I did notice.
Speaker 11 (19:15):
There was a witness last week that he had his
head up more than he had with any other witnesses,
and as well as when they were displaying some pictures
of his home, he did look up at the projector
screen during those pictures. Other than that, no eye contact
with us was lever.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole other
thing if you're not beating someone less powerful than you,
much much smaller, all less cunning than you are. When
you're actually court with equals, it's a lot more difficult.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
To be a bully.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
And now joining US special guest Jeffrey Gentry, Forensic certified
Bloodstained Pattern Analysts, Senior crime analyst and death investigator, former
toxicology lab analyst and author of forensic science Applications to
death and crime scene investigations, and specifically author of blood
(20:12):
stain pattern analysis. Jeffrey Gentry, I just want you to
hear one more fact about the blood pattern.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Listen.
Speaker 13 (20:21):
During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put
up on a lift where investigators discover blood pulled on
top of the fuel tank. Further inspection reveals there was
so much blood some of it dripped down from the
fuel tank. On the passenger side of the truck. They
found a plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern
Comfort whiskey.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Dear Lord and has an Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
That mass quantity of blood, Jeffrey Gentry can only mean
one thing.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
But any down the street knows that.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Give me your analysis about what was found in the
truck bed and beyond.
Speaker 15 (21:04):
These are all bad things, man station. So when you're
working a no body homicide case, you always have to
consider where the blood is found, and then also the
quantity of blood that is found, because these are the
things that you're going to want to use with evidence
to contend it the jury that the person is dead
even though there's no body. So blood on bed sheets
that's always a bad thing. You would expect blood to
(21:26):
be in bathrooms, kitchens, or bathroom sinks, things where blood
might normally be found, but you don't expect large quantities
of blood to be saturated into sheets, especially sheets that
are tied up in knots. That's one of the ways
that we actually transport bodies from crimekeenings is you wrap
them up in the sheet you knotted up. Then you
put them inside of a body bag. It makes it
(21:46):
easier to carry a body. So that is very bad
when you're looking at a person being missing and then
you're finding blood up socrated into bed sheets, and then
also the quantity of blood that's being poured out of
the truck bed. Again, didn't have blood in the back
of the truck bed, and you should absolutely not have
blood in sufficient quantities to pour out of trucks. And
(22:07):
then they touched on also the smell of decomposition. That's
the smell that I, of course smell many times, did
thousands of death pieces, and it's something that you don't
forget others are smelling decomposition. Again, that's another piece of
evidence to suggest that this person is dead.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Even though you don't have a bob straight out to
Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter, I want to go
back to what's happening. In the preliminary hearing, Tyler mcchain,
Nicky's abusive husband, had a major outburst where he stands
up starts screaming and cursing.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
What happened Well, in.
Speaker 10 (22:42):
Court, they showed pictures from the first church of the
house of Nicki and Tyler's house, and in that first
video shot you could tell that the house is very messy.
There weren't a lot of pictures hanging up. But what
he lost it over was the pictures that were shown
from the second visit. After Nikki has been reported missing
(23:04):
and the police go back in and are searching the
home again. This time they find that the home is
no longer messy. It's been picked up and cleaned. It
has been staged with family photos now hanging on the walls.
That's where he lost it, Nancy, because they were pointing
out that, hey man, when we came here the first time,
right after she was reported.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Missing, none of this was going on.
Speaker 10 (23:26):
This place was trash, but now look at it after
she's gone, there's pictures hanging on the walls. So that's
why he lost it.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
He stated Chloe that for a large portion of the
hearing he would sit or he sits with his head
down looking down.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But isn't it true.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
He had a major outburst, yelling and cursing, Yes, he did.
Speaker 14 (23:48):
It was when Cay mentioned. It was when it was
pictures of his house and the evidence technician she had
mentioned that how the house had looked differ from the
first raid versus the second raid, and she just noticed
that was unusual because when they went back the second
time for the raid, they noticed that the living room
(24:10):
was it was all cleaned up, it was very nice
and meet and put together, and there were family photos
hung up, and she just said she found that kind
of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word, and
he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Okay, I believe his exact words are along the lines
of I don't even know why I'm even here.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
This is bulls, This is bullshit.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
This is him standing up and yelling, and the judge
had to call for a recess so his lawyer could
calm him down. I mean, kay, if he would act
like that in open court in front of a judge,
what would he do when he is alone with Nikki?
Speaker 11 (24:49):
Yeah, that outburst is pretty telling and it wasn't mean
maybe the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty
telling because he had been keeping his composure pretty well
throughout the hearings, so that outburst was definitely a surprise.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
And it was, like Chloe said, it.
Speaker 11 (25:07):
Was comparisons from the first search or raid compared to
the one they went to about nine ten months later,
and she commented the evidence technician commented on what a
difference it was it with a home was in disarray previously,
and then when she came back, it was like Lue said,
nice and tidy with family.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Pictures all over the walls.
Speaker 11 (25:28):
And yeah, his outbursts was asking what was wrong with
having pictures.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Of this family on the wall, and then what you
had said.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
You know, I'm very curious. Bryan Fitzgibbons, I agree with you.
I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But
at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki,
combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.
Speaker 10 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Connect the dots here, right.
Speaker 12 (25:58):
We have a tremendous amount of forensic analysis that's been
done on this vehicle, as testified by various members of
law enforcement. That's that's undoubtedly what led Shasta County just
about a couple months ago to make the pronouncement that
they believe that this is now a murder case. So,
(26:19):
you know, I think that there's sufficient evidence here to
say that.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I want to talk about the DNA evidence.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
It's my understanding that and Dave Matt correct me if
I'm wrong. That the sheet found in the bed of
the truck covered in blood indicated by looking at the
sheet that three of the four corners.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Had been tied in a knot.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
I would argue, and Jeff Gentry to you that they
hitched people McCain got to help him get rid of
the evidence. Each one took a corner of the sheet.
Because DNA from three separate people are in each corner
(27:07):
of the sheet where the knots have been tied, how
does that work, Jeffrey.
Speaker 15 (27:13):
That's exactly what you want to look at is where
is the DNA on these sheets and who was involved.
So if you have a knot on every single corner,
that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved,
that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I
mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy.
I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab
(27:34):
a corner of the sheet and you transport them to
where they need to go, and all at that time
you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course
I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people most
likely were not. And then if you're sweating and you're
doing something active, there's more of a chance that you're
going to transfer DNA to whatever you're touching.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Straight out to Chloe and ka Ken, either of you
tell me about the testimony of Louis Braha.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Yeah, Louis he started his testimony.
Speaker 11 (28:03):
We only heard it a little bit of it, but
he had been he had an ongoing relationship with Ninki
and it sounds like it went back as far as
about a year or so before she went missing, and
he very very calm, very seems like a very nice gentleman.
(28:25):
He said they had met at his place of work,
which was at a.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Cell phone store, and they become friends.
Speaker 11 (28:31):
He helped them with their with their cel phone service,
and I think he noticed. I think he kind of
noticed NICKI needed help, and I think he I think
he felt bad for her.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
And I think in.
Speaker 11 (28:48):
That with with how how calm his demeanor was, with
how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki felt
like this was someone she could turn to when she
needed it.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
There is also Justin Corn. What do we know about
Justin's testimony.
Speaker 14 (29:07):
I felt like he was very nervous. I feel like
maybe he might have known more than he was letting on.
But I definitely I hope that he was being honest.
But I feel like he wasn't being as honest as
because I feel like he does know more.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Justin Karen lived in a trailer on the property. That
means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also,
they played a video of him talking to police and
in it. In this video that was played in court,
Karen says.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
That he was asked by McCain a few.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Days after Nicky goes missing to help disappear.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
The Chevy Avalanche and whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Was inside of it, and they pointed out that Tyler
McCain is letting him live on the property for free.
Then he starts crying in the video when cops press
him for information, saying his mom lived with him, he
didn't have anywhere to go if something happened to him.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I mean, that's what it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you
to describe that what happened.
Speaker 11 (30:18):
It sounded like mister Karen is kind of in a
dependent situation with Tyler.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
He lives on the property, and.
Speaker 11 (30:26):
It does sound like he is pretty much living rent free,
you know, and he was kind of a right hand
man for Tyler. He helps around the house on the property,
fixed cars whatever Tyler needed. And it does sound like
without Tyler's I guess graciousness to let him live there,
(30:47):
he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere to park
his trailer. And he did mention his mom is not
doing well and his mom is pretty dependent on him to,
you know, provide a place live and he does take
care of him, so, you know, it sounds like mister Karen,
unfortunately was just.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Pushed in a corner.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
I mean, he's when you're dependent on someone, it's hard
to say no when they need your help.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I understand that, But getting rid of a dead body
is a whole other can of worms. Okay, that's more
than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice,
tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more.
I'd be crying too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson.
That is the girlfriend, right.
Speaker 14 (31:37):
They are no longer together, but they were dating.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
At the time. What did she say? What was her testimony?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
She did testify that on the night of.
Speaker 11 (31:48):
Or May seventeenth into the early morning hours of the eighteenth,
she did hear some movement in the back of the
house and on the back porch, which is where the
master bedroom backs, and that's also where Nicki had parked
her car closer to the back master bedroom door.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
She said during those hours she did hear.
Speaker 11 (32:09):
Some movement and including a thud towards the backwards of
the house in the rear of the truck in that
to me sounded like the bed area of the truck.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Now, I want to clarify, Felicia Nelson is justin Karen's girlfriend,
not Tyler McCain's girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
And she also testified she.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Was in the trailer and justin Karen's trailer, and it
was not parked very far from the McCain home at all,
and she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked.
She later described a thud heard in the early morning
hours May eighteen. May eighteen is the day NICKI goes missing,
(32:54):
So that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney cross
examining all the witnesses? Yes, he was, yes, And how
did that pan out?
Speaker 4 (33:09):
He was? I feel like he was strategic.
Speaker 11 (33:11):
He did try to poke holes in some of their
testimony or or or and I don't know the correct termology,
but almost sometimes you know, someone said it was ten minutes,
he might say, could you know, do you mean.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Fifteen minutes because you had said fifteen minutes before.
Speaker 11 (33:30):
Things like that to kind of confuse as the person
and make them feel, you know, like maybe they.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
Didn't remember correctly. But yeah, it's pretty crafty as.
Speaker 11 (33:40):
Far as you know, the cross and clarifying specific things
that they had testified to.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Now, another point of justin Karen's testimony that I found
really interesting is that he stated he found Nicky's driver's
license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch and
that he gave them to Tyler McCain. And at the
time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not
(34:09):
burned or.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Destroyed in any way.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
They were then later the driver's license was later found
burned in Tyler McCain's wallet.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Isn't that true? Yes, what can you.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Tell me about I was found in Tyler McCain's mother's home.
Speaker 14 (34:27):
There was any white comforter in their detached garage that
had a lot of burn marks on it and them
there was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared
to be burned as well.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong
to Nicky?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
It was hard to tell because it wasn't a pile.
Speaker 11 (34:46):
It looked denim like to me, but if it could
have just been, you know, the the thread material.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
But I did not specifically recognize the sweater.
Speaker 11 (34:57):
But Nikki had a lot of clothes, so I wouldn't
recognize every piece that she had anyway.
Speaker 14 (35:03):
And there was also a note that was found to
tell me about the note? Okay, do you have it
write it was in a bin.
Speaker 11 (35:09):
It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
It was on a pink post it note. And the
odd thing is, throughout the search.
Speaker 11 (35:16):
They had found numerous just notes lying around Nikki and
Tyler's home, and this note happened to be in Jeanette's
garage and it read remember that feeling when you could
be Jesus for a day on drugs. Who wrote that
it looks like it could have been Tyler's handwriting, But.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
They didn't. They didn't.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
They didn't say, fine, how did you guys?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Endure the testimony about the discovery of the truck and
what was found in the truck bed, that.
Speaker 14 (35:51):
Was probably one of the toughest things for me. I
just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me,
like clutching onto his hand because it was just it
was just a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
The deputy stated under oath there was a strong odor,
the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed.
There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a
white sheet with bloodstains and dark colored hair, and Nikki
had beautiful, long, dark hair. There are smears of dried
(36:28):
blood and the truck bed and there's dark hair found
under a piece on the trim on the outside of
the truck. It is it has been definitively proven that
the blood and the hair belonged to your sister NICKI.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
And my final question to you, kay.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Ford, when you hear this technical evidence about blood and
hair and a comparison lab comparison proving that it's nick Keys,
do you let your mind go to how that blood
got there and how her hair ended up in the
trim of the foot of the truck.
Speaker 11 (37:16):
So it's, like I said, it's just grizzly to think
that that's what happened to her, you know, to even
kind of imagine it's.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Difficult specifically about Louis Philip Dubay, the witness. Now he's
saying he had a romantic relationship with Niki Chang. I
guess he is saying that now that his DNA is
on the sheet, right, he's saying that it's from an
(37:50):
earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the crime
lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Right, So if his DNA is over in one of
those knots tied.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
He's going to be proven to be a liar debay exactly.
Speaker 7 (38:10):
And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California,
in order to get that defense, you have to have
more than just motive means an opportunity for someone else
to have committed the crime.
Speaker 5 (38:22):
There has to.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Be some other independent evidence linking that third party to
the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at
the scene where the death purportedly occurred, that is enough
to get that third party culpability instruction, and particularly at
a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court
(38:44):
that the death was at the hands of somebody other
than the defendant. The other problem I think the case
has so far, we're not hearing that there was an
unsurvivable loss of blood.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I find this really hard to believe, doctor Bethany Marshall.
Now that Nikki Tang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing
about a sex affair.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Is that just to conveniently.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Explain away why his DNA is on the shape he
used to transport her dead body. Nancy abuse victims do
not have affairs. They're terrified to even smile at somebody
in public. If the abuser is looking at them, the
abuser questions, where did you have lunch?
Speaker 4 (39:25):
Did you talk to somebody? What did you say about them?
Speaker 8 (39:28):
Abusers are pathologically jealous, so no, I have a hard
time believing that she would have risked her life by
having an affairs.
Speaker 6 (39:39):
Nikki, I'm the first, thanks office, I forget involved.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Any efforts to get my health. My phone.
Speaker 9 (40:06):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace, Ripley says, it wouldn't start.
McCain put diesel in the gas powered truck and it
had rolled down a gradual slope. Ripley says, Justin Karen
asked McCain if there was anything in the truck that
needed to disappear, and did the truck need to disappear?
Both times McCain answered yes. The defense asked Ripley if
(40:29):
he was offered amnesty for his testimony. Ripley said he
didn't need it because he hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley
says he met with his nephew later that evening at
his trailer on McCain's property and told him he wanted
nothing to do with whatever was going on. He didn't
know until the next day the avalanche was reported missing
until he saw it on the news the next day.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Philip Dubay, defense attorney, how can the defense possibly fight
back against Ripley's testimony? Ripley says he asked the husband McCain,
is there anything in the truck we need to get
rid of? And McKain says yes. And he says, do
we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain
says yes. What do you do with that? That's just
(41:10):
like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.
Speaker 7 (41:12):
Well, that presupposes that you believe the witness. In order
for that to have any merrit or any weight, you
have to find that the testimony is credible. And what
do we know that you had other people who were
intimate with her? And I find it astonishing to suggest
that it could have only been mister McCain. Normally, if
there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the
(41:35):
fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on
that sheet, I don't care what anybody says when they're
on the stand. Forensics are the best I witness debate.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
The DNA is in the corners of the edges of
the sheet. There clearly Dave mac where the sheet has
been nodded to help carry Nikki's body. Explaining the DNA
found on the sheets, Dave mac nancy.
Speaker 10 (42:05):
When they got that sheet out, they were examining each
of those corners. As you mentioned, there are three knots
in this sheet. In the corners they've got separate DNA
profiles from different individuals in those knots. They're not all
the same. So you've got three different people leaving their
(42:26):
DNA on the knots that are tied in the sheep
that also has Nikky Salee McCain's blood and hair. So
and of course we've got her husband, his is all
over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned.
So it's the knots that were tied by these individuals
in the sheet. By the way, it was found in
(42:47):
the back of her truck that was sitting on the
side of the road with a cover over the trunk bed.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Okay, Jeffrey, gentry, blood spatter analyst, you would have.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
A field with that.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
And did you hear Debey trying to tune up and
state that there wasn't enough blood to prove she's dead.
Speaker 15 (43:05):
One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a
truck dead, There shouldn't be blood all over a sheet,
and then there definitely should not be enough blood in
body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is
very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a
person is not dead after finding all of that, you're
absolutely wrong.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Question to you, Brian is Gibbons.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
The sisters have been through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing.
Isn't it true, Brian that family members want desperately to
believe their loved one is out there and they can
and will be found. How do you break that to
someone that they're never going to be found.
Speaker 12 (43:44):
Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when
this forensic evidence and the witness statements, but by the way,
lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased.
You know, this has got to be just a horrific
experience through this preliminary hearing for Nicki's family to sit
(44:07):
through listening to all this evidence brought before them.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are
enduring it. I mean I only sat through a very
short portion when I testified at my fiancees murder trial.
I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're
doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony
about Nicki's hair and blood.
Speaker 14 (44:28):
It's definitely difficult. I just remember I have to do this.
I have to say this because I have to be
strong for Nicki's kids, because I want to know what
happened and I want to know what they did to her.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Joining me k Ford and Chloe Saley as difficult as horrible.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
As it is for them.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
They are enduring gut wrenching and graphic testimony in court
and they are representing their sister Niki, and it ain't
over yet. Nikee sisters, thank you for being with us.
We wait as justice unfolds, and now we remember an
(45:10):
American hero, Officer Hunter Simonsick, Kansas CITYPD, killed in the
line of duty at age twenty six, leaving behind heartbroken
parents Ron and Christine. American hero. We honor Officer Hunter Simonsig.
Thank you to our guests, especially sisters Kay and Chloe.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Nancy Grace signing off goodbye Unt
Host
Nancy Grace
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