A teacher is arrested for the cruel double murder of a mom and dad trying to save their two young daughters from a vicious attack during a family hike on a trail in Arkansas, known as Devil’s Den State Park, ending a five-day manhunt for the alleged predator.
Clinton David Brink, 43, and his wife, Cristen Amanda Brink, 41, were hiking Saturday with their 7- and 9-year-old daughters through Devil’s Den State Park when a man attacked them on the trail around 2:30 p.m., officials say. The two young girls ran to safety as they heard their mother's screams echoing; currently, both girls are with family members and suffered no physical injuries. The parents are being hailed as heroes for saving their daughters from the vicious fatal attack.
James Andrew McGann, 28, was arrested in Springdale, Arkansas, around 30 miles from the crime scene at a hair salon. getting his hair cut, possibly shaved. McGann is charged with two counts of capital murder, according to a release from the Arkansas State Police. The motive for the brutal attack that resulted in the deaths of both parents is still unclear.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Andrea Lewis - Partner at Searcy Law in Pam Beach, Florida, Former Felony Prosecutor at Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office - where Epstein was prosecuted, President of the Palm Beach County Bar Association, WEBSITE: searcylaw.com
- Dr. Janie Lacy - Licensed Psychotherapist and CEO of Life Counseling Solutions, Author of "How To Heal From A Toxic Relationship: A Guide To Reclaiming Your Mental Health and Happiness", Host of “The Resilient Professional” Podcast on YouTube, janielacy.com, Instagram & Facebook: @JanieLacy
- Ron Bateman - Former Sheriff for Anne Arundel County, Maryland. Former Homicide and Undercover Narcotics Detective, Author of Crime Ttrilogy, "Silent Blue Tears" [he is currently directing and producing a film documentary on the murders at the Capital Gazette Newspaper in Annapolis];.X: Ronbatemanbooks
- Dr. Michelle DuPre - Forensic Pathologist and Consultant, Medical Examiner and Detective: Lexington County Sheriff's Department; Author: “Money, Mischief, and Murder: The Murdaugh Dynasty...the Rest of the Story," "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" & "Child Abuse Investigation Field Guide;"Currently Working on New Book: "The Inside Story"
- Carsen Holaday- Senior News Reporter, The U.S. Sun
- Sydney Sumner - CRIME STORIES Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the so called Devil's Den
killer snared after a mom and dad slaughtered all the
hiking trail in front of their little girls while protecting
them from the hiking trail killer. According to police, I'm
(00:22):
Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Ready for goods, responders, faith for believe.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
That's all. We have.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
More breaking news tonight the Arkansas State Police giving us
more details of the arrest and the Devil's Den double homicide.
Take a listen from KOTV all the way, everyone.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
In stands stay until pretly guilty. We did the farm
this morning than our suspects. The DNA has been a
positive match to the DNA that we suspected to belong
to our suspect at the scene.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Not just two hikers dead on a trail, a mother
and a father and the prime of their lives with
their two little girls, ages seven and nine, brutally stabbed
dead on a family hiking trail, but in the last.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Hours this Arkansas State Police special agents had arrested James
Andrew McGannon twenty eight a Spring deal. He's been charged
with two council capital murder in the distance of Clinton,
David Brink, and Kristin Amanda Brink.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
If you commit a violent, senseless act here in our state,
our law enforcement will hunt you down and bring you
to justice.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That'm our friends at five News. This is what we
know right now. Straight out to Carson Holiday, joining US
investigative senior news reporter us Son. I understand the twenty
eight year old alleged double killer is a white male
teacher who was just moved to this area, and according
(02:05):
to reports that we're trying to corroborate right now, he
was taken off his last job as a teacher for
inappropriate conduct with girls. Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven, there
he is, and it looks just like the composite sketch.
What is that? What do we know about this guy?
Speaker 6 (02:29):
Right?
Speaker 7 (02:30):
So, Nancy, we know that he had just moved from
Oklahoma to Arkansas and was preparing to be a third
grade teacher at the elementary school in the area. Right
to school confirmed that, and before that he worked in Texas,
right he was a fifth grade teacher.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I believe you know, Angel lewis joining me partner Serce
Law firm, former felony prosecutor. If this is true. If
that is why he left Oklahoma and ended up here
and ended up at Devil's Dan Family hiking trail, why
in the world with the school have let it go quietly?
(03:13):
I just does it never And you know, hey, hey, Andrew,
listen to what an ASP investigator had to say.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
We're not going to talk about his motive right now.
We're still exploring and to determine exactly what that motive was,
so it'd be a little premature for us to speak
on that tonight.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, Angea Lewis, I understand the Arkansas State Police investigators
caution regarding motive.
Speaker 9 (03:39):
I can certainly take a very educated guest here. This
man is obviously twisted. They say, don't judge a book
by its cover, but we can tell by just looking
at his mugshot something is wrong with him. And we
know that because, as you just stated, it appears from
reports that he is someone who who has either preyed upon,
(04:01):
has fixated upon, or has some type of nefarious desires
towards young girls in the past. And of course he
works in a school setting. And as you know, Nancy,
that's my primary practice. I handle sex abuse cases. I've
prosecuted sex abuse cases. And now I represent the victims.
(04:23):
I see this a lot, and I'll tell you and
you just hit the nail on the head. The most
frustrating thing when you have someone that is preying on
children ninety nine percent of the time, that is not
an isolated incident.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
These are people.
Speaker 9 (04:39):
It's ingrained in their soul. And what we need to
do as a society and as a community. And always
remember if someone is acting strangely towards children, if someone
gives you the creeps, especially if someone appears to be
sexually attracted or giving unwanted attention to children, you need
(05:00):
to be screaming that from the rooftops. The schools need
to be coming out and telling the community, because all
they do is move to the next school or community
and cause havoc there or in this case, murder people,
likely for the sole reason of getting to the children.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Now there's a lot of speculation. Ron Bateman joining me
former sheriff and Arundel County, Maryland who investigated the murder
Onland portrayal of Rachel Moore in very similar to this case.
We were trying to determine motive. We knew, Ron Bateman,
that the little girls ran for their lives down this
(05:41):
rocky terrain there's Rachel Morin to get to safety. They
heard their mother screaming in the background. They said at
the time they saw their father getting stabbed and that
the mom told them to run. So, when you were
analyzing for us in the hour after the double murder,
(06:01):
what may have happened, the parents sent the little girls
to safety, and we talked about why would one guy
attack the husband, who is a big guy, A big guy,
all right, not that big, but really big and beefy.
Why would one guy take on the man and the woman,
(06:23):
the mom and the dad, And you deduced he had
tried to grab one of the little girls and the
parents were protecting them. Ron Bateman, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
It's really clear now that we know what his background is,
which absolutely pisces me off to think that a proper
background was not done on this guy before he was
hired to a school system, the third school system that
he worked at. If they would have done their due
diligence on him, they would have learned these other past
behaviors and they wouldn't have hired him. That wouldn't have
(06:58):
kept him from being at the trail that day, But
it's it's just unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Why may it may have Ron Bateman, because if he's
moving from Arkansas to here, I mean, if he's moving
to Arkansas, then he came there because he was hired.
If he hadn't been hired by the school, he probably
would have been in some other state. But I don't know.
All of that is just spinning out. This is the
(07:25):
kind of thing we do when we prep for a trial.
We try to give the jury a motive. But isn't
it true, Carson Holiday joining us from us son? Isn't
it true that the authority said from the very beginning
the parents were slaughtered trying to quote protect the little girls.
Didn't that come out at the beginning.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
Yes, in the family suideness statement that they were trying
to save the little girls. We're all weeping the trail.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
Me person with me. First day he had trying to
locate the family.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
You're still calling for help.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
We're hiking down Therefore.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
We're here before get into the lower part of the
Devil's rail. Better relate to the office. And we found
the victims down here. They're on the lower Devil's entrail.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
The fact that the mother and father are stabbed dead
with the little girls running away is a huge psychological
indicator as to who the purp is. First of all,
Carson Holiday, before I go to doctor Janie Lacy, I
want to figure out how this guy was arrested. Is
it true he was slung up in a barber chair
(08:35):
at a salon getting his hair clipped? What he's not
even worried he's gonna get caught.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
Yep, he was mid haircut when they arrested him. You know,
he drove up with the car that he escaped in
and he was mid haircut when they handcuffed him. The
barber even took a video of police.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Taking pictures of the scene. You're seeing that right now.
I believe it is Lupita Salon. Lupita Salon. This is
from Adrian Luis Avolos on Facebook, and she was afraid
and concerned. There is the alleged getaway car. It's exactly
as it was described. I got to give a big
(09:21):
shout out to the witnesses that I did that car. Now.
I mean, I don't know what it says to you.
I'm just a trial lawyer. But doctor Janie Lacy joining
a psychotherapist, author of How To heal from a toxic
relationship and more, Doctor, he's not worried at all about
(09:45):
being apprehended. That's pretty smug, that's pretty arrogant. And I'm
also curious if he was going to get his hair shaved. Hey,
let me get the New York control room to show
you something really quickly, Doctor Janey. I want to see
the behind shot from the rear of the alleged purp
(10:05):
at the trail and this outfit really cue a lot
of witnesses. Doctor Johnny, there it is. Now. If you
zoom in on this, which I've done a million times,
you can see his hair coming out from under his
baseball cap. I wonder if he saw this photo that
(10:26):
we aired and realized his hair color and his hair
could be identified, and he was at that salon med haircut.
I wondered, was he getting his head buzzed? Was he
getting his hair up above his baseball cap? Long story short,
isn't that a tiny bit arrogant to be out slung
(10:47):
up in the salon's chair, just minding your own business
after a double murder and the cops are looking for you.
The ASP is nothing to be sneered at. And the
FBI was in on this thing.
Speaker 10 (11:00):
Well, Nancy, you said it arrogant and confident, So if
he was going about it, I would have probably imagined
that he absolutely saw that video and thought that he
was smarter and thought that he was going to get
away with this crime. Hence the remote location with no
cell phone service, the tape on his car, and all
these other types of things, the fingerless gloves that was reported,
(11:22):
and then the specific clothes that you just saw that
we just saw on the screen. So he's wearing these
black clothing in the middle of the forest with the backpack.
So arrogant and confident and disconnected from the prime in
the sense that he probably believed that he was going
to get away with this crime.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Nancy to doctor Michelle Dupree joining us, you know her well.
She capable to fame during the Alex Murdog double murder trial.
That's her jurisdiction. By the way, she is the author
of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdog Dynasty. She's the
author of for my Purposes on the Side Investigation field
(12:01):
Guide and Child Abuse Investigation field Guide. Doctor dupri In
that video, if I could see that again, you see
the Arkansas State troopers gathering his hair lying there and
it's from the John Luis Avolo's Facebook. What are they
going to do with that hair? It gives me hope
(12:22):
there's DNA, explained Doctor dupre Nancy.
Speaker 11 (12:25):
It's probably not going to be for DNA because DNA
you would need the actual hair root for that. They
may be able to find trace evidence from that if
they can match his.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Hair on mitochondrial DNA without a root. I know you
need the root for nuclear DNA, but what about mitochondrial
DNA can't you get that from a hair without a root.
Speaker 11 (12:44):
You may be able to get mitochondrial DNA. Yes, yes,
but not the traditional DNA that we normally think of.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Not to go deafcom four into the analysis of DNA,
but I have handled cases myself where a mitochondrial DNA
match was made two nuclear DNA on the scene. It
doesn't matter if it comes from the mother. You still
get the DNA match. You can yes straight out to
Ron Bateman joining us the hair on the floor from
(13:14):
the salon. That gives me hope that there will be
a DNA match. What does that mean? That means that
the perp somehow may have left DNA at the double
murder scene. That hair is important.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
Let me respond to that because I've talked about this
on other shows, transference of evidence. When you are somewhere
committing a crime, you most likely, always that makes sense,
will leave something behind, blood, hair, fingerprints, whatever, and you
will take something with you carpet, fibers, soil from the ground,
(13:54):
what have you. But in this case, it sounds like
and I would be all over that hair too in
the salon that most likely I would bet money that
there's hair at that scene that they're looking to link
to McGahn.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That what you're seeing right now is from Hgano Luis
Ovolos on Facebook. You just said something super interesting, Ron Bateman.
I mean, it was all interesting to me because I
love crime scenes. You said the word soil. I hope,
I hope because we got a good description of this guy,
what he was wearing. I'm circled back to Carson on
(14:29):
that in a moment. But Ron, the soil on that scene,
he just moved here right to take his new job
at a teaching position. Scary the soil on that scene.
I wonder if they can match that back to soil,
possibly even microscopic on his clothes on his shoes. Those
(14:52):
parents put up the fight of a lifetime, don't you know.
They were grabbing at his hair, leaving DNA on him,
getting his DNA on them. And then the possibility of
soil from the hiking trail on his clothes.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
Ron, Yeah, the app the FBI, who is providing special
resources in this case, will definitely be able to compare
that soil to soil that's found on his shoes, for example,
and putting him right on the scene.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know another thing, Carson Holiday joining us along with
Sidney Sumner from Crime Stories. Carson joining us us Son Carson.
I know this sounds crazy, right, but it's not. And
I've had other victims and witnesses tell me this so
and they're separated in time and space that they got
a quote bad vibe off the perp. Now, in this case,
(15:48):
I was going to come to you about what he
was wearing that stuck out like a sore thumb because
we were talking to Bateman about the shoes and the
possibility that soil samples from the hiking trail are on
his clothes. But this guy was decked out in all black,
and witnesses have stated we saw him he wouldn't even
(16:10):
look us in the eyes we passed him. Look at this,
it's almost one hundred degrees weather out there, Carson. Isn't
it true that one of the eyewitnesses said he gave
her a bad feeling, He put off a bad vibe
and they noticed it and I'm getting a vibb. I'm
just looking at him. But they remembered it and recounted
(16:33):
it to police.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
Exactly, Nancy. I think, especially as women, when you walk
by a big guy like that and you know he's
just kind of pulking over in his dark clothes, it
would be impossible to not immediately get a feeling from him.
And maybe he was hurrying away from the scene, maybe
he was walking with some sort of focus. I mean,
he was stepped out in long sleeves, a black hat,
(16:57):
black head to toe, and he had that giant backpack on.
He just seemed disheveled and again wearing that really hot
seeming clothes in such humid Arkansas heat, it would be
weird to not spot him and to not remember him
when you were asked.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Gonna look go for a white man suspect wearing black gloves, sunglasses,
and dark colored pants and children are there.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We have more breaking news tonight the Arkansas State Police
giving us more details of the arrest in the Devil's
Den double homicide. Take a listen from KOTV.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
As we began to hone in on the vehicle, it
became clear that it was a Kia Stinger, and we
use that information to vet various owners and our suspect
was identified.
Speaker 12 (17:48):
Terrifying screens and calls for help are heard in Arkansas
State Park Devil's Den, prompting nearby hikers to sound to
the arm.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
What authorities find shocks everyone in the last In fact,
it was announced in the night and arrest has been
made in the double homicide, the brutal knifing of a
mom and dad at Devil's Den hiking trail straight out
to Ron Bateman joining US former sheriff and Arundel County,
(18:19):
Maryland who exhaustively investigated the Rachel Morn murders. Very similar
to this case.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
Way in so, if you go back to the picture
of the suspect from behind, you will notice what he's
wearing is not a hoodie. It's either a turtleneck, which
I don't believe it's a turtleneck. It looks like it
could be one of those full face covers that we
wear during a pandemic, or people wear all the time,
whether hunting or fishing. But that seems very unusual to me.
(18:49):
Do you see that at the top of his neck
that's not an article of clothing like a shirt or
a turtleneck. That could be where he could pull something
over his face and his nose and covers nose's mouth,
you know the rest of his face. And if you
see that picture there, he's mid haircut. He's not getting
a buzz cut. He's not getting all his hair shaved off.
He's too vain for that.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It looks to me like he's getting it cut, possibly
shaved up the back, but it's all above his ears.
See what's happening. And he was mid haircut, so we
don't really know what they were doing, but we know
he was getting it off of his collar and way
up Doctor Janey, Lacey joining me. Let's take a look
(19:30):
at what he is wearing. Doctor Janey, look at this.
I see why someone has mentioned it looks like his
got a ball of clava down around his neck. Oh
Ron Bateman said that we see that we see a
huge backpack what does he have in that and the
(19:50):
backpack itself is easily identifiable. I'm just wondering if they
found that backpack that matches up to this fo so
doctor Janie Lacy, the way he's dressed, I mean, it
just got to be the victims DNA all over him.
And I guarantee these items are going to be found
(20:12):
in his closet at his new apartment.
Speaker 10 (20:15):
I would certainly hope so, Nancy, because as we're looking
at what he's wearing, that would say a lot of
Sorazi's premeditation. That he probably planned to have everything that
he needed in that bag, which will probably tell us
a lot about what he was planning when they receive
that backpack and the contents of that backpack. And I
would imagine with the parents and their instinct to save
(20:38):
and to protect their children, that their DNA that there's
other evidence that would be on his clothing. So to me,
that would be really important that they recover not only
that backpack, but all of his clothing that.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
We see in this picture to be able to learn
a lot about.
Speaker 10 (20:55):
This horrific crime and his violent behavior.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace Sydney Summer joining me, Crime Stories.
Investigative reporter explain to us what we know right now
about the slaughter at Devil's Den. What do we know happened?
Pieced together by the nine one one calls little girls
running down the trail screaming what they reported? How do
(21:30):
we think the attacks went down Sydney right.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Well, we don't have any publicly released information on what
actually happened, but we have been hearing these little snippets
of nine to one one dispatch radio and that's where
we're starting to piece together what happened. So apparently this
family is walking on the trail, mom and dad, two
little girls, and they are approached by Andrew apparently at
(21:58):
this point, and he starts to attack the parents, attacks dad,
possibly stab dad in the chest. While the two little
girls are still with their parents, Mom tells these two
young girls, they are just seven and nine years old,
to run as far and as fast as they can
and try and get help. So these girls take off,
(22:21):
and what they tell the nine one one dispatcher is
that they ran until they couldn't hear their mom screaming anymore,
so they run into some adult on the trail, and
we think that they ran a very long distance, almost
a mile until they ran into we're not sure, some
kind of an adult, maybe another family, a couple, and
(22:43):
someone escorted them to the visitor center, where an attendant
called nine one one, And at this point the attendant
just believed that maybe these children were just separated from
their family. It wasn't until the girls were put on
the phone directly with the nine one one dispatcher that
it was understood that their parents had actually been attacked.
(23:03):
So at this point that's when you hear stage for police.
Two people have been attacked, possible stabbing, and officers are
now searching the trail for these injured people. And what
we know is that officers actually heard falls for help
before they made it out to Clinton and Kristen Brink.
(23:25):
So it was so sad that they were so close
to possibly have gotten these parents' medical attention that they needed,
but by the time they located Kristen and Clinton, they
were deceased.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
While first responders initially hear screams and calls for help,
by the time they reached the victims on the trail,
it's clear the victims are deceased. There's no sign of
their attacker. Officers quickly clear the trails, speaking with hikers
as they exit the park to piece together what happened.
Several hikers remember passing the family and many others on
the trail, but a few point out there was only
(23:59):
one one person they saw alone on the trail that day,
a medium builed white man wearing dark clothes, a ball
cap and sunglasses, with dark blonde or light brown hair.
Speaker 12 (24:10):
What's supposed to be a memorable family height ends in
a brutal tragedy when the bodies of a mom and
dad are suddenly discovered in an Arkansas state park.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
With me an all star panel. To any sense of
what we're learning right now, we do know that overnight
it was announced and arrest had been made. The so
called Devil's Den Hike trail killer was apprehended, according to police.
Carson Holiday joining us from the Sun Carson, I'm trying
(24:41):
to figure out how this guy was apprehended, what led
to him. I have a reason to believe it may
have been his vehicle, But Carson Holiday, you may have
a different theory. How was this guy identified?
Speaker 7 (24:55):
I believe it was the composite sketch.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
The composite sky.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
Was really right on and he was wearing. I mean,
obviously we have that picture from behind that I feel
like is very recognizable. That backpack is pretty unique. Again,
the balaklava sort of thing around his neck and then
the hat, that all just seems very recognizable. I believe
someone saw him going in to get the haircut, which
(25:21):
is where he was arrested, and maybe called it in. Obviously,
we'll learn more as the police release more details.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
We're learning that police, well it's Arkansas State Police along
with the FBI, are crediting video tips. I don't really
know what that means, but video tips also to Dodger.
Michelle Duprey, joining US renowned pathologist, medical examiner, and former detective.
(25:49):
When I hear people talk about balaklava, now I can't help.
I will forever think of Brian Cooberger and it sounds
like this guy took a page out of Coburger's book.
Burger dressed all in black, face, mask, gloves, The work
works just like this guy. What do you make of it?
(26:10):
Does that really protect you from DNA transfers?
Speaker 11 (26:14):
No, Nancy, it doesn't. I think that he was under
a misconception that it would. But there are still going
to be lots of trace evidence on hairs, fibers, soil,
things like that. It gives him a false sense of
security that he won't be identified, and it does make
it harder to identify, but there are still ways to
do that. And as we've seen here, there's a great
(26:34):
sketch of him.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It really is, it really is. You know that's hard
to do, doctor Michelle Dupree, You and I have worked
with a lot of composite sketches, and you know it
looks nothing like the person, and the defense has a
field day with it at trial. I mean, I've seen
some composite sketches that didn't look at all like the perk,
but I had a DNA match, so I know it's him.
(26:56):
Long story short, the defense gets a hold of that
back and pose it and goes, look, that's not him,
and that's not a good look for the prosecution in
this case. I think you're absolutely right. I think it
looks a lot like him. But doctor Michelle Dupree, not
only author and pathologist, also former detective now Kerson Holiday
(27:18):
thinks that it had to do with other evidence. I
think it had to do the apprehending him, had to
do with this car, because you look and you see
in the database, who's there, who's in the jurisdiction driving
a black Mazda four door with I don't know if
the whole tag was covered up, if partial tag was
covered up. Look at this. This is again from Adriana
(27:42):
luis Ovolos on Facebook. There it is right there. Yep,
it's a four door, just like the witnesses said. And
the car database is easy to find. Now we know
part of that tag was obscured with duct tape he
planned to him. But even if you get the outside
of the tag, you can identify the state and maybe
(28:03):
more so, what do you think led them to this
guy apprehended, all kicked back getting his hair done?
Speaker 11 (28:11):
Nancy, I think you're actually right. I think that someone
saw this car and probably saw it maybe being parked,
and saw this person going into the barbershop to get
a haircut, and then you match that up with the sketch,
and I think you've absolutely got it. You've got it
wrapped up.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Hey, listen to this, doctor dupray.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Several other hikers take notice of a man in dark
clothes on Devil's Done Trail one nine one one call,
reporting he appeared to have blood on him. While initial
reports put the suspect in a black tank top, police
revised the description to a dark colored, long sleeved shirt
with the sleeves rolled up. Some witnesses saw the man
get in a black four door sports car. Others report
(28:51):
a similar car driving erratically as it leaves the park area.
Their descriptions are vague, but all have two commonalities. It
was loud, and there was tape covering the license plate.
Police believe the vehicle may have been traveling on Arkansas
one p seventy or Arkansas two twenty.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I'm not saying Chrston Holidays wrong. She may very well
be right. She knows the facts like the back of
her hand. But doctor Duprix, it's coburger all over again.
Here you've got the guy in this case, Devil's Den
driving erratically in a really loud car that went out
on the airwaves Pronto describing him the composite. But that
(29:32):
car it got on either Arkansas one seventy or two twenty.
They have cams, they have licensed grappers, and if you're
driving erratically, people are gonna notice, just like BK. Brian
Coberger's white Elantra was noticed. I mean it's a dead giveaway.
What about that possibility, Doctor Dupree, Absolutely.
Speaker 11 (29:55):
Nancy, that you're right, that is going to be noticed
by anybody that's in the vicinity. And if they call
that in and then again they do match it up
with the sketch. I think you're right. I think somebody
saw that car. I think somebody saw that being parked
near that barber shop. And I think that is how
they apprehended him right then, and they are ooh.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, by the barbershop. Brilliant And he was so arrogant,
this guy idiot Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Janey Lacey,
(30:34):
and I say, idiot, with full venom, have you ever
been minding your own business? I don't know if you
live in an apartment or a house or in traffic
and you hear and you go, what is that in
some muscle car going by with a screwed up muffler
and everybody notices it. This guy like Coburger, going round
(30:58):
and around and around the murders. Is why elantra, Hello,
we see you on ring cams. We can see you.
This guy drives off nine emph and thanks, Nobody will
notice and then parks in front of the salon.
Speaker 10 (31:14):
Well, Nancy, that says a lot about he thought his
self importance and him living in the little bubble and
not necessarily having self awareness.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Right.
Speaker 10 (31:23):
So when we see people who are arrogant personality disordered,
have a lot of history of just being self focused
and their self importance is so inflated that these are
the types of people that we will see that are
not considered of other people. And in this situation of
him going to the barbershop and him going loudly at
that is to say that his self importance is over
(31:46):
confidence and just really thinking that he probably was going
to get away with this crime. In this sense, especially
when we look at his self importance and his lack
of self awareness.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I'm so glad you said that doctor Janey angel lewis
joining US veteran trial lawyer at Circe Law, but former
felony prosecutor. The more arrogant they are, the better it
is for the state because they think that they're not
going to be noticed and they're smarter than everybody in
the room. And in this case it's little things. Andrew.
(32:20):
If Carson Holliday is right, and I think she is,
that there's a good chance there's DNA, and that there
are video tips. It's other little things. Did I ever
tell you about the bank robber I prosecuted gets a
ton of money out of what was then a CNS bank,
and you know what got him a little thing. They
(32:41):
didn't even have video, they had steal photos of the purpse,
but you could see he was slew footed, what like
a duck, right, And of course he took the stand,
Thank you Heaven. He takes a stand, and everybody hung
over the jury rail to watch him walk, and he
walked up just as slip footed as daffy duck. Okay,
(33:03):
So what I'm saying is little things like that car
pulling up and parking right there forgotten everybody to see
in front of the salon. You hear that, and of
course you look at it and you think, hey, that
looks like the Mazda. Everybody's looking for Andrea. Idiot? How
(33:23):
many times can I say idiot in one segment? But
what about it? Angrea Lewis, You're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 9 (33:29):
You know, I think most people who maybe aren't in
the courtroom as much as prosecutors are, maybe some other
lawyers don't realize how the defendant themselves can really just
be a treasure trove of information, not only in evidence before,
not only in just their statements potentially to police, but
(33:50):
as you noted in the courtroom, their mannerisms, because if
they're arrogant outside the courtroom, imagine how they act to
inside the courtroom and can pick up on that and
they want to wipe that smile right off their face.
And I think that's what's happened here. He just got
you know, cocky. He thought he was untouchable. I totally
(34:12):
agree with you and the other guest. I think that
we're going to find here that there's DNA that you
got his car. It sounds like you have multiple people
on the hiking trail. I would assume that it was
one of the adults that probably got a good look
at him. I remember there were some witness statements when
the initial reports went out. Who did that the composite
(34:34):
which is excellent, So they have a lot and for
all we know, he spoke to police. So I think
it'll just keep getting better.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Gots something else for you, Andrea ron Bate was going
to do a backflip. But before we show him doing
his backflip, did you know that Lupita's salon. According to
our very very extensive a Google map search, Lupida's Salon
is less than thirty minutes away from Devil's Dean. He
(35:02):
didn't even leave the jurisdiction. He's that arrogant and parks
in the front of the salon where the whole world
is looking for his car.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
It really it defies common sense. And you brought up coburger.
That was the first thing I thought about when we
started hearing these initial reports over the last couple of days,
because imagine a town like this, who everybody's on high alert.
I mean, people across the country are following this case.
Imagine what big news it is locally there. So everybody
(35:38):
in a four door sedan, you know, is getting stared
at when they go to traffic lights and as they
drive around, they're on high alert. The town's on high alert.
So for this man to just be so stupid that
he would stick around not think that anyone would notice him.
He's sort of a strange looking guy to begin with.
(35:59):
I mean, he's stands out is just foolish, and fortunately
for the family, he was caught and hopefully will spend
the rest of his life in prison or get the
death penalty.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Overnight, a presser announcing the arrest of the alleged double
killer snared in the Devil's Den hiking trail murders to
Ron Bateman, joining us fromer Sheriff and Arundel County, Maryland,
who has investigated multiple cases very similar to this. If
you look at this guy, Okay, he moves to town
(36:34):
to another state after resigning from his last elementary school position,
where he was quote so close to the students. He
comes here, apparently doesn't know anybody, takes an out of
state job, lives all alone, reportedly having left that job
(36:58):
after claims he had an appropriate contact. I don't know
what that means. That can mean calling children on the phone,
It can mean texting them, It can mean a lot more.
We don't know that yet. But then would he leap
from that to trying to publicly nab a little girl
(37:21):
on a hiking trail. No wonder the mom and dad
fought to the death.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
Okay, So I made another observation of that backpack contraption
that he has he's wearing. First off, that gym bag
is attached to a backpack apparatus, and that backpack apparatus
has what looks to me to be a camelback apparatus
to it, which means it has water in it and
it comes around. So to me, that looks like the
(37:49):
moron who's wearing long sleeve black shirt and black pants
and a hat in ninety five degree weather is end
for the long run because of hydration. This gives him
hydration state out there. So that looks like a chin
backpack to me with an attachment of a gym bag
to us, So, who knows what the heck is in
that driam gym bag. I'd love to see the tape,
(38:10):
the rope, the knives or whatever's in there.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Would he be that brazen ron?
Speaker 6 (38:16):
Yeah? Well, I mean he's not that sory to.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Try and nab a little girl in front of her parents. Well,
I mean, for all I know, like in Rachel Moren's case,
that perp waited until nobody else was around, and Rachel
was at a curve, remember a curve where people behind
couldn't see exactly what was happening ahead, and he dragged
(38:42):
her off the trail, her mother of five. For all
I know, the little girls were running ahead of mom
and dad, which happens frequently, and he saw them and
didn't see mom and dad and tried to grab one
and the girl's screen. I wonder if that's how this
whole thing is going to play out.
Speaker 6 (39:00):
Yeah, you know what, he probably had tunnel vision. Your parent,
I'm a parent. You know when the kids are little,
you know, they don't want to stick by mom and
dad's side. They're running ahead, or they're hanging behind, they're
playing on logs or doing what have you, exploring the woods,
and that could have very well happened and been slightly
out of sight of mom and dad. But this guy
had tunnel vision. He knew what he was going after,
(39:21):
probably one of those two little girls or both, and
just was oblivious to mom and dad's presence.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
You know, Carson holiday joining us from the US son.
I'm just we're analyzing how is he tracked, how is
he caught? Was their DNA? Did the hair have mitochondrial
DNA in on? But what it boils down to is
this mom and dad gave their lives trying to protect
the little girls. That's the first words we were hearing.
They died trying to protect the girls. And I spun
(39:50):
that out and try to figure out what does that mean. Okay,
these two little girls, and I think they've got a
third sister, we'll spend the rest of them lives without
mom and dad. And there's no replacement for that. And
not only that, the survivor guilt. They died trying to
(40:10):
save me. I mean, that's what this is all about.
And stabbing death is a brutal way to die. It's
not like you die in your sleep, or you breathe
in carbon monoxide you don't even know what's happening, or
you take too many pills and you just drift off
to sleep. No, it's it's a horrible way to die.
(40:34):
And if the police are right Arkansas State Police, this
guy did it. I bet you anything, Carson. He didn't
go from zero to one hundred mph in one afternoon, right,
there's got to be a trail behind him. But what
happens now? Where is he and what's next?
Speaker 7 (40:54):
Well, he was booked into jail last night. We obviously
saw that terrifying mugshot and police said that he could
appear in court for his arraignment as soon as tomorrow morning.
So we'll really be checking back in and seeing, you know,
how he appears in court.
Speaker 9 (41:13):
What jail is going to look like for him?
Speaker 7 (41:15):
I really can't imagine that it would be a great
experience for him.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
There.
Speaker 7 (41:20):
You know, he just ripped two parents away from their
young daughters. And like you said, the young daughters, I mean,
the survivor's guilt is just going to be awful, especially
considering that the mom told the little girls to run
and get help, and that they were screaming for help
up until they came along to their bodies.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
And it's just horrific. Mom and dad had just moved
to this jurisdiction. Dad starting a brand new job. I
think it would have been yesterday delivering milk. Mom a nurse. Well,
we know what's going to happen, Andrea. He is going
(42:00):
to have a first appearance, which under the law, if
you are behind bars, you have to be brought into
a court, whether it's a magistrate, a superior court judge,
state court judge, and you have to be told why
you're being charged in open court, no secret proceedings. That's
going to happen. Then there'll probably be a grand jury indictment.
(42:21):
Onto capital murder cases, this is a death penalty jurisdiction.
Then he'll probably be assigned a public defender with death
penalty experience. I mean, this is more than one body
that equals mass murder under the law. That's what's going
to spend out. Then we're going to spend millions of
dollars while he sits behind bars. I believe it's Washington
(42:43):
County jail, with people rallying to his aid, women falling
in love with him and sending him love letters and
special meals, all sorts of things like ahead for him
as we wait for justice is too unfold. But what
do you think what lies ahead?
Speaker 9 (43:03):
Andrea lewis well, so what lies ahead for him?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
This is going to be a long process.
Speaker 9 (43:09):
It's going to be a long process for all of
us here watching along, And as you noted before, and
most importantly, this is going to be an absolutely excruciatingly
painful process for these girls who may very well end
up being witnesses in this case and have to testify
a trial. Hopefully they're able to piece the case together.
(43:33):
It sounds like they have a lot of other evidence
without putting them through that. But this, as we all know,
is not a process that's going to happen overnight. And
as is often the case, he will likely plead not guilty.
We'll drag it out, get a trial date. You know,
it will depend on the jurisdiction. But let's say within
(43:53):
a couple years, and then we'll all sit back and
see if he ends up being offered a plead and
take some place lee ahead of time, but for something.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Oh please don't pull upon coburger on me, Andrea Lewis,
you're giving me, giving me chest pains, a plea deal.
A mom and a dad dead defending their children on
a family hiking trail. No mm hmm, I mean I
believe the elected prosecutor is going to call for the
(44:22):
DP on this. That said, we wait as justice unfolds.
And now we remember an American hero, Deputy Shriff of
jamar Abel Chambers County Sheriff's, Alabama, just twenty four years old,
killed in a line of duty, survived by grieving fiance
Jasmine and father Martin missing. A beloved American hero, jamar
(44:49):
Abel Nancy Gray signing off good bye mad
Speaker 11 (45:00):
Passssssssssssssssssss
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the so called Devil's Den
killer snared after a mom and dad slaughtered all the
hiking trail in front of their little girls while protecting
them from the hiking trail killer. According to police, I'm
(00:22):
Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Ready for goods, responders, faith for believe.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
That's all. We have.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
More breaking news tonight the Arkansas State Police giving us
more details of the arrest and the Devil's Den double homicide.
Take a listen from KOTV all the way, everyone.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
In stands stay until pretly guilty. We did the farm
this morning than our suspects. The DNA has been a
positive match to the DNA that we suspected to belong
to our suspect at the scene.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Not just two hikers dead on a trail, a mother
and a father and the prime of their lives with
their two little girls, ages seven and nine, brutally stabbed
dead on a family hiking trail, but in the last.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Hours this Arkansas State Police special agents had arrested James
Andrew McGannon twenty eight a Spring deal. He's been charged
with two council capital murder in the distance of Clinton,
David Brink, and Kristin Amanda Brink.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
If you commit a violent, senseless act here in our state,
our law enforcement will hunt you down and bring you
to justice.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
That'm our friends at five News. This is what we
know right now. Straight out to Carson Holiday, joining US
investigative senior news reporter us Son. I understand the twenty
eight year old alleged double killer is a white male
teacher who was just moved to this area, and according
(02:05):
to reports that we're trying to corroborate right now, he
was taken off his last job as a teacher for
inappropriate conduct with girls. Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven, there
he is, and it looks just like the composite sketch.
What is that? What do we know about this guy?
Speaker 6 (02:29):
Right?
Speaker 7 (02:30):
So, Nancy, we know that he had just moved from
Oklahoma to Arkansas and was preparing to be a third
grade teacher at the elementary school in the area. Right
to school confirmed that, and before that he worked in Texas,
right he was a fifth grade teacher.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I believe you know, Angel lewis joining me partner Serce
Law firm, former felony prosecutor. If this is true. If
that is why he left Oklahoma and ended up here
and ended up at Devil's Dan Family hiking trail, why
in the world with the school have let it go quietly?
(03:13):
I just does it never And you know, hey, hey, Andrew,
listen to what an ASP investigator had to say.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
We're not going to talk about his motive right now.
We're still exploring and to determine exactly what that motive was,
so it'd be a little premature for us to speak
on that tonight.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Well, Angea Lewis, I understand the Arkansas State Police investigators
caution regarding motive.
Speaker 9 (03:39):
I can certainly take a very educated guest here. This
man is obviously twisted. They say, don't judge a book
by its cover, but we can tell by just looking
at his mugshot something is wrong with him. And we
know that because, as you just stated, it appears from
reports that he is someone who who has either preyed upon,
(04:01):
has fixated upon, or has some type of nefarious desires
towards young girls in the past. And of course he
works in a school setting. And as you know, Nancy,
that's my primary practice. I handle sex abuse cases. I've
prosecuted sex abuse cases. And now I represent the victims.
(04:23):
I see this a lot, and I'll tell you and
you just hit the nail on the head. The most
frustrating thing when you have someone that is preying on
children ninety nine percent of the time, that is not
an isolated incident.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
These are people.
Speaker 9 (04:39):
It's ingrained in their soul. And what we need to
do as a society and as a community. And always
remember if someone is acting strangely towards children, if someone
gives you the creeps, especially if someone appears to be
sexually attracted or giving unwanted attention to children, you need
(05:00):
to be screaming that from the rooftops. The schools need
to be coming out and telling the community, because all
they do is move to the next school or community
and cause havoc there or in this case, murder people,
likely for the sole reason of getting to the children.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Now there's a lot of speculation. Ron Bateman joining me
former sheriff and Arundel County, Maryland who investigated the murder
Onland portrayal of Rachel Moore in very similar to this case.
We were trying to determine motive. We knew, Ron Bateman,
that the little girls ran for their lives down this
(05:41):
rocky terrain there's Rachel Morin to get to safety. They
heard their mother screaming in the background. They said at
the time they saw their father getting stabbed and that
the mom told them to run. So, when you were
analyzing for us in the hour after the double murder,
(06:01):
what may have happened, the parents sent the little girls
to safety, and we talked about why would one guy
attack the husband, who is a big guy, A big guy,
all right, not that big, but really big and beefy.
Why would one guy take on the man and the woman,
(06:23):
the mom and the dad, And you deduced he had
tried to grab one of the little girls and the
parents were protecting them. Ron Bateman, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
It's really clear now that we know what his background is,
which absolutely pisces me off to think that a proper
background was not done on this guy before he was
hired to a school system, the third school system that
he worked at. If they would have done their due
diligence on him, they would have learned these other past
behaviors and they wouldn't have hired him. That wouldn't have
(06:58):
kept him from being at the trail that day, But
it's it's just unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Why may it may have Ron Bateman, because if he's
moving from Arkansas to here, I mean, if he's moving
to Arkansas, then he came there because he was hired.
If he hadn't been hired by the school, he probably
would have been in some other state. But I don't know.
All of that is just spinning out. This is the
(07:25):
kind of thing we do when we prep for a trial.
We try to give the jury a motive. But isn't
it true, Carson Holiday joining us from us son? Isn't
it true that the authority said from the very beginning
the parents were slaughtered trying to quote protect the little girls.
Didn't that come out at the beginning.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
Yes, in the family suideness statement that they were trying
to save the little girls. We're all weeping the trail.
Speaker 6 (07:50):
Me person with me. First day he had trying to
locate the family.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
You're still calling for help.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
We're hiking down Therefore.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
We're here before get into the lower part of the
Devil's rail. Better relate to the office. And we found
the victims down here. They're on the lower Devil's entrail.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
The fact that the mother and father are stabbed dead
with the little girls running away is a huge psychological
indicator as to who the purp is. First of all,
Carson Holiday, before I go to doctor Janie Lacy, I
want to figure out how this guy was arrested. Is
it true he was slung up in a barber chair
(08:35):
at a salon getting his hair clipped? What he's not
even worried he's gonna get caught.
Speaker 7 (08:43):
Yep, he was mid haircut when they arrested him. You know,
he drove up with the car that he escaped in
and he was mid haircut when they handcuffed him. The
barber even took a video of police.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Taking pictures of the scene. You're seeing that right now.
I believe it is Lupita Salon. Lupita Salon. This is
from Adrian Luis Avolos on Facebook, and she was afraid
and concerned. There is the alleged getaway car. It's exactly
as it was described. I got to give a big
(09:21):
shout out to the witnesses that I did that car. Now.
I mean, I don't know what it says to you.
I'm just a trial lawyer. But doctor Janie Lacy joining
a psychotherapist, author of How To heal from a toxic
relationship and more, Doctor, he's not worried at all about
(09:45):
being apprehended. That's pretty smug, that's pretty arrogant. And I'm
also curious if he was going to get his hair shaved. Hey,
let me get the New York control room to show
you something really quickly, Doctor Janey. I want to see
the behind shot from the rear of the alleged purp
(10:05):
at the trail and this outfit really cue a lot
of witnesses. Doctor Johnny, there it is. Now. If you
zoom in on this, which I've done a million times,
you can see his hair coming out from under his
baseball cap. I wonder if he saw this photo that
(10:26):
we aired and realized his hair color and his hair
could be identified, and he was at that salon med haircut.
I wondered, was he getting his head buzzed? Was he
getting his hair up above his baseball cap? Long story short,
isn't that a tiny bit arrogant to be out slung
(10:47):
up in the salon's chair, just minding your own business
after a double murder and the cops are looking for you.
The ASP is nothing to be sneered at. And the
FBI was in on this thing.
Speaker 10 (11:00):
Well, Nancy, you said it arrogant and confident, So if
he was going about it, I would have probably imagined
that he absolutely saw that video and thought that he
was smarter and thought that he was going to get
away with this crime. Hence the remote location with no
cell phone service, the tape on his car, and all
these other types of things, the fingerless gloves that was reported,
(11:22):
and then the specific clothes that you just saw that
we just saw on the screen. So he's wearing these
black clothing in the middle of the forest with the backpack.
So arrogant and confident and disconnected from the prime in
the sense that he probably believed that he was going
to get away with this crime.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Nancy to doctor Michelle Dupree joining us, you know her well.
She capable to fame during the Alex Murdog double murder trial.
That's her jurisdiction. By the way, she is the author
of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdog Dynasty. She's the
author of for my Purposes on the Side Investigation field
(12:01):
Guide and Child Abuse Investigation field Guide. Doctor dupri In
that video, if I could see that again, you see
the Arkansas State troopers gathering his hair lying there and
it's from the John Luis Avolo's Facebook. What are they
going to do with that hair? It gives me hope
(12:22):
there's DNA, explained Doctor dupre Nancy.
Speaker 11 (12:25):
It's probably not going to be for DNA because DNA
you would need the actual hair root for that. They
may be able to find trace evidence from that if
they can match his.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Hair on mitochondrial DNA without a root. I know you
need the root for nuclear DNA, but what about mitochondrial
DNA can't you get that from a hair without a root.
Speaker 11 (12:44):
You may be able to get mitochondrial DNA. Yes, yes,
but not the traditional DNA that we normally think of.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Not to go deafcom four into the analysis of DNA,
but I have handled cases myself where a mitochondrial DNA
match was made two nuclear DNA on the scene. It
doesn't matter if it comes from the mother. You still
get the DNA match. You can yes straight out to
Ron Bateman joining us the hair on the floor from
(13:14):
the salon. That gives me hope that there will be
a DNA match. What does that mean? That means that
the perp somehow may have left DNA at the double
murder scene. That hair is important.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
Let me respond to that because I've talked about this
on other shows, transference of evidence. When you are somewhere
committing a crime, you most likely, always that makes sense,
will leave something behind, blood, hair, fingerprints, whatever, and you
will take something with you carpet, fibers, soil from the ground,
(13:54):
what have you. But in this case, it sounds like
and I would be all over that hair too in
the salon that most likely I would bet money that
there's hair at that scene that they're looking to link
to McGahn.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That what you're seeing right now is from Hgano Luis
Ovolos on Facebook. You just said something super interesting, Ron Bateman.
I mean, it was all interesting to me because I
love crime scenes. You said the word soil. I hope,
I hope because we got a good description of this guy,
what he was wearing. I'm circled back to Carson on
(14:29):
that in a moment. But Ron, the soil on that scene,
he just moved here right to take his new job
at a teaching position. Scary the soil on that scene.
I wonder if they can match that back to soil,
possibly even microscopic on his clothes on his shoes. Those
(14:52):
parents put up the fight of a lifetime, don't you know.
They were grabbing at his hair, leaving DNA on him,
getting his DNA on them. And then the possibility of
soil from the hiking trail on his clothes.
Speaker 6 (15:09):
Ron, Yeah, the app the FBI, who is providing special
resources in this case, will definitely be able to compare
that soil to soil that's found on his shoes, for example,
and putting him right on the scene.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You know another thing, Carson Holiday joining us along with
Sidney Sumner from Crime Stories. Carson joining us us Son Carson.
I know this sounds crazy, right, but it's not. And
I've had other victims and witnesses tell me this so
and they're separated in time and space that they got
a quote bad vibe off the perp. Now, in this case,
(15:48):
I was going to come to you about what he
was wearing that stuck out like a sore thumb because
we were talking to Bateman about the shoes and the
possibility that soil samples from the hiking trail are on
his clothes. But this guy was decked out in all black,
and witnesses have stated we saw him he wouldn't even
(16:10):
look us in the eyes we passed him. Look at this,
it's almost one hundred degrees weather out there, Carson. Isn't
it true that one of the eyewitnesses said he gave
her a bad feeling, He put off a bad vibe
and they noticed it and I'm getting a vibb. I'm
just looking at him. But they remembered it and recounted
(16:33):
it to police.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
Exactly, Nancy. I think, especially as women, when you walk
by a big guy like that and you know he's
just kind of pulking over in his dark clothes, it
would be impossible to not immediately get a feeling from him.
And maybe he was hurrying away from the scene, maybe
he was walking with some sort of focus. I mean,
he was stepped out in long sleeves, a black hat,
(16:57):
black head to toe, and he had that giant backpack on.
He just seemed disheveled and again wearing that really hot
seeming clothes in such humid Arkansas heat, it would be
weird to not spot him and to not remember him
when you were asked.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Gonna look go for a white man suspect wearing black gloves, sunglasses,
and dark colored pants and children are there.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We have more breaking news tonight the Arkansas State Police
giving us more details of the arrest in the Devil's
Den double homicide. Take a listen from KOTV.
Speaker 8 (17:31):
As we began to hone in on the vehicle, it
became clear that it was a Kia Stinger, and we
use that information to vet various owners and our suspect
was identified.
Speaker 12 (17:48):
Terrifying screens and calls for help are heard in Arkansas
State Park Devil's Den, prompting nearby hikers to sound to
the arm.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
What authorities find shocks everyone in the last In fact,
it was announced in the night and arrest has been
made in the double homicide, the brutal knifing of a
mom and dad at Devil's Den hiking trail straight out
to Ron Bateman joining US former sheriff and Arundel County,
(18:19):
Maryland who exhaustively investigated the Rachel Morn murders. Very similar
to this case.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
Way in so, if you go back to the picture
of the suspect from behind, you will notice what he's
wearing is not a hoodie. It's either a turtleneck, which
I don't believe it's a turtleneck. It looks like it
could be one of those full face covers that we
wear during a pandemic, or people wear all the time,
whether hunting or fishing. But that seems very unusual to me.
(18:49):
Do you see that at the top of his neck
that's not an article of clothing like a shirt or
a turtleneck. That could be where he could pull something
over his face and his nose and covers nose's mouth,
you know the rest of his face. And if you
see that picture there, he's mid haircut. He's not getting
a buzz cut. He's not getting all his hair shaved off.
He's too vain for that.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It looks to me like he's getting it cut, possibly
shaved up the back, but it's all above his ears.
See what's happening. And he was mid haircut, so we
don't really know what they were doing, but we know
he was getting it off of his collar and way
up Doctor Janey, Lacey joining me. Let's take a look
(19:30):
at what he is wearing. Doctor Janey, look at this.
I see why someone has mentioned it looks like his
got a ball of clava down around his neck. Oh
Ron Bateman said that we see that we see a
huge backpack what does he have in that and the
(19:50):
backpack itself is easily identifiable. I'm just wondering if they
found that backpack that matches up to this fo so
doctor Janie Lacy, the way he's dressed, I mean, it
just got to be the victims DNA all over him.
And I guarantee these items are going to be found
(20:12):
in his closet at his new apartment.
Speaker 10 (20:15):
I would certainly hope so, Nancy, because as we're looking
at what he's wearing, that would say a lot of
Sorazi's premeditation. That he probably planned to have everything that
he needed in that bag, which will probably tell us
a lot about what he was planning when they receive
that backpack and the contents of that backpack. And I
would imagine with the parents and their instinct to save
(20:38):
and to protect their children, that their DNA that there's
other evidence that would be on his clothing. So to me,
that would be really important that they recover not only
that backpack, but all of his clothing that.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
We see in this picture to be able to learn
a lot about.
Speaker 10 (20:55):
This horrific crime and his violent behavior.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace Sydney Summer joining me, Crime Stories.
Investigative reporter explain to us what we know right now
about the slaughter at Devil's Den. What do we know happened?
Pieced together by the nine one one calls little girls
running down the trail screaming what they reported? How do
(21:30):
we think the attacks went down Sydney right.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Well, we don't have any publicly released information on what
actually happened, but we have been hearing these little snippets
of nine to one one dispatch radio and that's where
we're starting to piece together what happened. So apparently this
family is walking on the trail, mom and dad, two
little girls, and they are approached by Andrew apparently at
(21:58):
this point, and he starts to attack the parents, attacks dad,
possibly stab dad in the chest. While the two little
girls are still with their parents, Mom tells these two
young girls, they are just seven and nine years old,
to run as far and as fast as they can
and try and get help. So these girls take off,
(22:21):
and what they tell the nine one one dispatcher is
that they ran until they couldn't hear their mom screaming anymore,
so they run into some adult on the trail, and
we think that they ran a very long distance, almost
a mile until they ran into we're not sure, some
kind of an adult, maybe another family, a couple, and
(22:43):
someone escorted them to the visitor center, where an attendant
called nine one one, And at this point the attendant
just believed that maybe these children were just separated from
their family. It wasn't until the girls were put on
the phone directly with the nine one one dispatcher that
it was understood that their parents had actually been attacked.
(23:03):
So at this point that's when you hear stage for police.
Two people have been attacked, possible stabbing, and officers are
now searching the trail for these injured people. And what
we know is that officers actually heard falls for help
before they made it out to Clinton and Kristen Brink.
(23:25):
So it was so sad that they were so close
to possibly have gotten these parents' medical attention that they needed,
but by the time they located Kristen and Clinton, they
were deceased.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
While first responders initially hear screams and calls for help,
by the time they reached the victims on the trail,
it's clear the victims are deceased. There's no sign of
their attacker. Officers quickly clear the trails, speaking with hikers
as they exit the park to piece together what happened.
Several hikers remember passing the family and many others on
the trail, but a few point out there was only
(23:59):
one one person they saw alone on the trail that day,
a medium builed white man wearing dark clothes, a ball
cap and sunglasses, with dark blonde or light brown hair.
Speaker 12 (24:10):
What's supposed to be a memorable family height ends in
a brutal tragedy when the bodies of a mom and
dad are suddenly discovered in an Arkansas state park.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
With me an all star panel. To any sense of
what we're learning right now, we do know that overnight
it was announced and arrest had been made. The so
called Devil's Den Hike trail killer was apprehended, according to police.
Carson Holiday joining us from the Sun Carson, I'm trying
(24:41):
to figure out how this guy was apprehended, what led
to him. I have a reason to believe it may
have been his vehicle, But Carson Holiday, you may have
a different theory. How was this guy identified?
Speaker 7 (24:55):
I believe it was the composite sketch.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
The composite sky.
Speaker 7 (25:00):
Was really right on and he was wearing. I mean,
obviously we have that picture from behind that I feel
like is very recognizable. That backpack is pretty unique. Again,
the balaklava sort of thing around his neck and then
the hat, that all just seems very recognizable. I believe
someone saw him going in to get the haircut, which
(25:21):
is where he was arrested, and maybe called it in. Obviously,
we'll learn more as the police release more details.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
We're learning that police, well it's Arkansas State Police along
with the FBI, are crediting video tips. I don't really
know what that means, but video tips also to Dodger.
Michelle Duprey, joining US renowned pathologist, medical examiner, and former detective.
(25:49):
When I hear people talk about balaklava, now I can't help.
I will forever think of Brian Cooberger and it sounds
like this guy took a page out of Coburger's book.
Burger dressed all in black, face, mask, gloves, The work
works just like this guy. What do you make of it?
(26:10):
Does that really protect you from DNA transfers?
Speaker 11 (26:14):
No, Nancy, it doesn't. I think that he was under
a misconception that it would. But there are still going
to be lots of trace evidence on hairs, fibers, soil,
things like that. It gives him a false sense of
security that he won't be identified, and it does make
it harder to identify, but there are still ways to
do that. And as we've seen here, there's a great
(26:34):
sketch of him.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It really is, it really is. You know that's hard
to do, doctor Michelle Dupree, You and I have worked
with a lot of composite sketches, and you know it
looks nothing like the person, and the defense has a
field day with it at trial. I mean, I've seen
some composite sketches that didn't look at all like the perk,
but I had a DNA match, so I know it's him.
(26:56):
Long story short, the defense gets a hold of that
back and pose it and goes, look, that's not him,
and that's not a good look for the prosecution in
this case. I think you're absolutely right. I think it
looks a lot like him. But doctor Michelle Dupree, not
only author and pathologist, also former detective now Kerson Holiday
(27:18):
thinks that it had to do with other evidence. I
think it had to do the apprehending him, had to
do with this car, because you look and you see
in the database, who's there, who's in the jurisdiction driving
a black Mazda four door with I don't know if
the whole tag was covered up, if partial tag was
covered up. Look at this. This is again from Adriana
(27:42):
luis Ovolos on Facebook. There it is right there. Yep,
it's a four door, just like the witnesses said. And
the car database is easy to find. Now we know
part of that tag was obscured with duct tape he
planned to him. But even if you get the outside
of the tag, you can identify the state and maybe
(28:03):
more so, what do you think led them to this
guy apprehended, all kicked back getting his hair done?
Speaker 11 (28:11):
Nancy, I think you're actually right. I think that someone
saw this car and probably saw it maybe being parked,
and saw this person going into the barbershop to get
a haircut, and then you match that up with the sketch,
and I think you've absolutely got it. You've got it
wrapped up.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Hey, listen to this, doctor dupray.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Several other hikers take notice of a man in dark
clothes on Devil's Done Trail one nine one one call,
reporting he appeared to have blood on him. While initial
reports put the suspect in a black tank top, police
revised the description to a dark colored, long sleeved shirt
with the sleeves rolled up. Some witnesses saw the man
get in a black four door sports car. Others report
(28:51):
a similar car driving erratically as it leaves the park area.
Their descriptions are vague, but all have two commonalities. It
was loud, and there was tape covering the license plate.
Police believe the vehicle may have been traveling on Arkansas
one p seventy or Arkansas two twenty.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I'm not saying Chrston Holidays wrong. She may very well
be right. She knows the facts like the back of
her hand. But doctor Duprix, it's coburger all over again.
Here you've got the guy in this case, Devil's Den
driving erratically in a really loud car that went out
on the airwaves Pronto describing him the composite. But that
(29:32):
car it got on either Arkansas one seventy or two twenty.
They have cams, they have licensed grappers, and if you're
driving erratically, people are gonna notice, just like BK. Brian
Coberger's white Elantra was noticed. I mean it's a dead giveaway.
What about that possibility, Doctor Dupree, Absolutely.
Speaker 11 (29:55):
Nancy, that you're right, that is going to be noticed
by anybody that's in the vicinity. And if they call
that in and then again they do match it up
with the sketch. I think you're right. I think somebody
saw that car. I think somebody saw that being parked
near that barber shop. And I think that is how
they apprehended him right then, and they are ooh.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, by the barbershop. Brilliant And he was so arrogant,
this guy idiot Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Janey Lacey,
(30:34):
and I say, idiot, with full venom, have you ever
been minding your own business? I don't know if you
live in an apartment or a house or in traffic
and you hear and you go, what is that in
some muscle car going by with a screwed up muffler
and everybody notices it. This guy like Coburger, going round
(30:58):
and around and around the murders. Is why elantra, Hello,
we see you on ring cams. We can see you.
This guy drives off nine emph and thanks, Nobody will
notice and then parks in front of the salon.
Speaker 10 (31:14):
Well, Nancy, that says a lot about he thought his
self importance and him living in the little bubble and
not necessarily having self awareness.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
Right.
Speaker 10 (31:23):
So when we see people who are arrogant personality disordered,
have a lot of history of just being self focused
and their self importance is so inflated that these are
the types of people that we will see that are
not considered of other people. And in this situation of
him going to the barbershop and him going loudly at
that is to say that his self importance is over
(31:46):
confidence and just really thinking that he probably was going
to get away with this crime. In this sense, especially
when we look at his self importance and his lack
of self awareness.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I'm so glad you said that doctor Janey angel lewis
joining US veteran trial lawyer at Circe Law, but former
felony prosecutor. The more arrogant they are, the better it
is for the state because they think that they're not
going to be noticed and they're smarter than everybody in
the room. And in this case it's little things. Andrew.
(32:20):
If Carson Holliday is right, and I think she is,
that there's a good chance there's DNA, and that there
are video tips. It's other little things. Did I ever
tell you about the bank robber I prosecuted gets a
ton of money out of what was then a CNS bank,
and you know what got him a little thing. They
(32:41):
didn't even have video, they had steal photos of the purpse,
but you could see he was slew footed, what like
a duck, right, And of course he took the stand,
Thank you Heaven. He takes a stand, and everybody hung
over the jury rail to watch him walk, and he
walked up just as slip footed as daffy duck. Okay,
(33:03):
So what I'm saying is little things like that car
pulling up and parking right there forgotten everybody to see
in front of the salon. You hear that, and of
course you look at it and you think, hey, that
looks like the Mazda. Everybody's looking for Andrea. Idiot? How
(33:23):
many times can I say idiot in one segment? But
what about it? Angrea Lewis, You're one hundred percent right.
Speaker 9 (33:29):
You know, I think most people who maybe aren't in
the courtroom as much as prosecutors are, maybe some other
lawyers don't realize how the defendant themselves can really just
be a treasure trove of information, not only in evidence before,
not only in just their statements potentially to police, but
(33:50):
as you noted in the courtroom, their mannerisms, because if
they're arrogant outside the courtroom, imagine how they act to
inside the courtroom and can pick up on that and
they want to wipe that smile right off their face.
And I think that's what's happened here. He just got
you know, cocky. He thought he was untouchable. I totally
(34:12):
agree with you and the other guest. I think that
we're going to find here that there's DNA that you
got his car. It sounds like you have multiple people
on the hiking trail. I would assume that it was
one of the adults that probably got a good look
at him. I remember there were some witness statements when
the initial reports went out. Who did that the composite
(34:34):
which is excellent, So they have a lot and for
all we know, he spoke to police. So I think
it'll just keep getting better.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Gots something else for you, Andrea ron Bate was going
to do a backflip. But before we show him doing
his backflip, did you know that Lupita's salon. According to
our very very extensive a Google map search, Lupida's Salon
is less than thirty minutes away from Devil's Dean. He
(35:02):
didn't even leave the jurisdiction. He's that arrogant and parks
in the front of the salon where the whole world
is looking for his car.
Speaker 9 (35:14):
It really it defies common sense. And you brought up coburger.
That was the first thing I thought about when we
started hearing these initial reports over the last couple of days,
because imagine a town like this, who everybody's on high alert.
I mean, people across the country are following this case.
Imagine what big news it is locally there. So everybody
(35:38):
in a four door sedan, you know, is getting stared
at when they go to traffic lights and as they
drive around, they're on high alert. The town's on high alert.
So for this man to just be so stupid that
he would stick around not think that anyone would notice him.
He's sort of a strange looking guy to begin with.
(35:59):
I mean, he's stands out is just foolish, and fortunately
for the family, he was caught and hopefully will spend
the rest of his life in prison or get the
death penalty.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Overnight, a presser announcing the arrest of the alleged double
killer snared in the Devil's Den hiking trail murders to
Ron Bateman, joining us fromer Sheriff and Arundel County, Maryland,
who has investigated multiple cases very similar to this. If
you look at this guy, Okay, he moves to town
(36:34):
to another state after resigning from his last elementary school position,
where he was quote so close to the students. He
comes here, apparently doesn't know anybody, takes an out of
state job, lives all alone, reportedly having left that job
(36:58):
after claims he had an appropriate contact. I don't know
what that means. That can mean calling children on the phone,
It can mean texting them, It can mean a lot more.
We don't know that yet. But then would he leap
from that to trying to publicly nab a little girl
(37:21):
on a hiking trail. No wonder the mom and dad
fought to the death.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
Okay, So I made another observation of that backpack contraption
that he has he's wearing. First off, that gym bag
is attached to a backpack apparatus, and that backpack apparatus
has what looks to me to be a camelback apparatus
to it, which means it has water in it and
it comes around. So to me, that looks like the
(37:49):
moron who's wearing long sleeve black shirt and black pants
and a hat in ninety five degree weather is end
for the long run because of hydration. This gives him
hydration state out there. So that looks like a chin
backpack to me with an attachment of a gym bag
to us, So, who knows what the heck is in
that driam gym bag. I'd love to see the tape,
(38:10):
the rope, the knives or whatever's in there.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Would he be that brazen ron?
Speaker 6 (38:16):
Yeah? Well, I mean he's not that sory to.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Try and nab a little girl in front of her parents. Well,
I mean, for all I know, like in Rachel Moren's case,
that perp waited until nobody else was around, and Rachel
was at a curve, remember a curve where people behind
couldn't see exactly what was happening ahead, and he dragged
(38:42):
her off the trail, her mother of five. For all
I know, the little girls were running ahead of mom
and dad, which happens frequently, and he saw them and
didn't see mom and dad and tried to grab one
and the girl's screen. I wonder if that's how this
whole thing is going to play out.
Speaker 6 (39:00):
Yeah, you know what, he probably had tunnel vision. Your parent,
I'm a parent. You know when the kids are little,
you know, they don't want to stick by mom and
dad's side. They're running ahead, or they're hanging behind, they're
playing on logs or doing what have you, exploring the woods,
and that could have very well happened and been slightly
out of sight of mom and dad. But this guy
had tunnel vision. He knew what he was going after,
(39:21):
probably one of those two little girls or both, and
just was oblivious to mom and dad's presence.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
You know, Carson holiday joining us from the US son.
I'm just we're analyzing how is he tracked, how is
he caught? Was their DNA? Did the hair have mitochondrial
DNA in on? But what it boils down to is
this mom and dad gave their lives trying to protect
the little girls. That's the first words we were hearing.
They died trying to protect the girls. And I spun
(39:50):
that out and try to figure out what does that mean. Okay,
these two little girls, and I think they've got a
third sister, we'll spend the rest of them lives without
mom and dad. And there's no replacement for that. And
not only that, the survivor guilt. They died trying to
(40:10):
save me. I mean, that's what this is all about.
And stabbing death is a brutal way to die. It's
not like you die in your sleep, or you breathe
in carbon monoxide you don't even know what's happening, or
you take too many pills and you just drift off
to sleep. No, it's it's a horrible way to die.
(40:34):
And if the police are right Arkansas State Police, this
guy did it. I bet you anything, Carson. He didn't
go from zero to one hundred mph in one afternoon, right,
there's got to be a trail behind him. But what
happens now? Where is he and what's next?
Speaker 7 (40:54):
Well, he was booked into jail last night. We obviously
saw that terrifying mugshot and police said that he could
appear in court for his arraignment as soon as tomorrow morning.
So we'll really be checking back in and seeing, you know,
how he appears in court.
Speaker 9 (41:13):
What jail is going to look like for him?
Speaker 7 (41:15):
I really can't imagine that it would be a great
experience for him.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
There.
Speaker 7 (41:20):
You know, he just ripped two parents away from their
young daughters. And like you said, the young daughters, I mean,
the survivor's guilt is just going to be awful, especially
considering that the mom told the little girls to run
and get help, and that they were screaming for help
up until they came along to their bodies.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
And it's just horrific. Mom and dad had just moved
to this jurisdiction. Dad starting a brand new job. I
think it would have been yesterday delivering milk. Mom a nurse. Well,
we know what's going to happen, Andrea. He is going
(42:00):
to have a first appearance, which under the law, if
you are behind bars, you have to be brought into
a court, whether it's a magistrate, a superior court judge,
state court judge, and you have to be told why
you're being charged in open court, no secret proceedings. That's
going to happen. Then there'll probably be a grand jury indictment.
(42:21):
Onto capital murder cases, this is a death penalty jurisdiction.
Then he'll probably be assigned a public defender with death
penalty experience. I mean, this is more than one body
that equals mass murder under the law. That's what's going
to spend out. Then we're going to spend millions of
dollars while he sits behind bars. I believe it's Washington
(42:43):
County jail, with people rallying to his aid, women falling
in love with him and sending him love letters and
special meals, all sorts of things like ahead for him
as we wait for justice is too unfold. But what
do you think what lies ahead?
Speaker 9 (43:03):
Andrea lewis well, so what lies ahead for him?
Speaker 1 (43:08):
This is going to be a long process.
Speaker 9 (43:09):
It's going to be a long process for all of
us here watching along, And as you noted before, and
most importantly, this is going to be an absolutely excruciatingly
painful process for these girls who may very well end
up being witnesses in this case and have to testify
a trial. Hopefully they're able to piece the case together.
(43:33):
It sounds like they have a lot of other evidence
without putting them through that. But this, as we all know,
is not a process that's going to happen overnight. And
as is often the case, he will likely plead not guilty.
We'll drag it out, get a trial date. You know,
it will depend on the jurisdiction. But let's say within
(43:53):
a couple years, and then we'll all sit back and
see if he ends up being offered a plead and
take some place lee ahead of time, but for something.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Oh please don't pull upon coburger on me, Andrea Lewis,
you're giving me, giving me chest pains, a plea deal.
A mom and a dad dead defending their children on
a family hiking trail. No mm hmm, I mean I
believe the elected prosecutor is going to call for the
(44:22):
DP on this. That said, we wait as justice unfolds.
And now we remember an American hero, Deputy Shriff of
jamar Abel Chambers County Sheriff's, Alabama, just twenty four years old,
killed in a line of duty, survived by grieving fiance
Jasmine and father Martin missing. A beloved American hero, jamar
(44:49):
Abel Nancy Gray signing off good bye mad
Speaker 11 (45:00):
Passssssssssssssssssss
Host
Nancy Grace
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