May 23, 2025 • 42 mins
Does Sean "Diddy" Combs need to take the stand after all the explosive testimony from various witnesses, including rapper Kid Cudi and Cassie Ventura.
Court resumes Tuesday with Diddy's former employee Capricorn Clark on the stand.
Considering the Feds brought out the star witness so early in the trial, the public is swarmed with theories as to who all will take the witness stand in the disgraced rappers sex trafficking trial.
Combs is facing multiple counts of racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking and engaging in interstate transportation for prostitution. His indictment cites three anonymous victims in addition to Ventura. If Combs' is found guilty, he faces decades in prison.
Follow Crime Stories with Nancy Grace for the latest in Sean "Diddy" Combs sex trafficking trial.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace State versus Sean Combs aka
Diddy aka Puff aka Puffy aka puff Daddy aka Love.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
He wants that jewelry to think of him as mister Rogers.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wash your filthy mouth out with soap. He is a
criminal from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Everyone may agree that Combs was a bad boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
A bad boyfriend, a bad boy lifestyle.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Isn't the same thing as a criminal lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh yeah, it's a death knell. We are live at
the courthouse and joining us now investigative reporter Lauren Colin,
star of Pop Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being
with us. A lot happening in the courtroom today.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
What happened after Kid Cutti took the stand?
Speaker 6 (00:54):
Today we heard from a celebrity makeup artist, Myran Morales,
who was very good friends with cass and she described
an altercation before the VMA's in twenty ten where she
was in a conjoining room. So I guess two double
sweets is how I understood it. And she talked about
how she heard but didn't see what appeared to be
(01:17):
a altercation between Cassie and Ditty, and she saw Cassie's
injuries after the fact, she told Cassie to go to
the hospital and Cassie did not, But she testified that
she remained close with Cassie and Cassie felt comfortable enough
to stay at her house. She even said that during
one occasion, she called one of her doctor friends to
(01:38):
come over and look at Cassie's injuries, and she also
had Cassie talk to one of her lawyer friends, but
nothing ever came of that. During the cross examination done
by Anna Staveo, she really hammered Morales on the fact
that she's done two documentaries about Ditty and multiple media
interviews totaling eight. She also got Morales to admit that
(02:01):
she sold photos of Kim Porder for money and took
money from one of the documentaries in order to expense therapy.
And then we saw a homeland security agent who specialized
in digital forensics. He went through how he was able
to obtain different footage from Cassie's three different devices, these
(02:22):
mac book devices from twenty ten and possibly even earlier,
and he made sure to tell us in very technical
terms chain of custody, how he did this and how.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
He was able to extract the data.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
A lot of the messages came from being stored on iTunes,
which is what we used to use before we had
the iCloud.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
And then he explained why you.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
Might see some issues with the way messages are shown
based on the extraction, because we have seen double messages,
we've seen blank messages. So he was explaining this to
us now when Tony Gergoez got up to do her
cross she asked about it was one of the MacBooks
that had two user names on the login screen.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
One was Frank Black.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
Which we know was one of Ditty's aliases, and the
other one was a guest user. The HSI agent confirmed
that no data was extracted from the one user, but
when Garagos was finished and they did the redirect, they
really made sure to say that they only extracted data
(03:28):
from Frank Black after they got a search warrant because
Cassie she willingly gave over her devices, but it's clear
Frank Black is one of Ditty's aliases and so they
needed a warrant for that. We also heard from the
general manager of the Hermitage Hotel and Beverly Hills, and
essentially what he showed us was different names that were
(03:51):
used to check into these hotels. Frank Black, we saw
Frank White, we saw Jackie's Star, which we know is Cassie.
And then we saw notes that they took that are
they just helped the hotel staff know who's coming to
the hotel what to expect, and it was a lot
of corroboration in these notes as to what to expect.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
When Frank Black or Sean Combs arrives.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
There were notes that the cleaning staff should add one
thousand dollars extra for a deep clean or for damages
because they noted that there was candle wax everywhere, candle
waxes on the carpet, on the nightstands. They also noticed
or noted that there would be oil spilled everywhere and
they would have to do a deep clean. So again
(04:38):
there was a lot of corroboration, and there was no
cross examination for the hotel manager, Evan.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It was pouring from the witness stand and we are
alluring that even when Sean Combs is arrested, knowing that
he may turn himself in, even that night, when his
five star hotel is rated, it's full a damning evides.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
Listen, Homeland Security special agent, you've seen Binda who searched
Seawan Comb's Manhattan Park Hyatt Hotel suite the day of
his arrest. Bottles of baby oil and Loube were scattered
throughout the suite, and a lighting device was found in
the living room. Pill bottles found in a Louis Vauton
toiletry bag contained klonopin prescribed for frank black in a
(05:25):
pink powder that tested positive for ketamine and MDMA. A
fanny pack contained nine thousand dollars cash, and Benda said
it appeared a woman was staying in the room with Combs.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's not all that was found. Shawn Combs planning a
freak off and a five star hotel in Manhattan when
he's arrested. Sidney's Sumner joining us. What is astro glide?
Speaker 8 (05:49):
Astroglide is lubrication for sexual purposes?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Nancy, Okay, I'm just curious, Josh Ritter, You're so busy
planning how you can destroy Donna Schard on the stand,
How can tear her testimony into shreds? You tell me
after all this, and this is after a federal multi
count indictment. There he is the night of his arrest
(06:17):
with a hotel room stuffed stuffed with astroglide, multiple bottles
of baby oil, all sorts of lubricants, sex aids, and
tons of cash and drugs. I mean, the man can't
help himself. He is a criminal from the beginning to
the end. This is the night of his arrest.
Speaker 9 (06:40):
Yeah, I don't know where to go with that. It
doesn't look good. You're absolutely right. Here's the thing, though,
that the defense is going to have to continue to
hammer home. And maybe this is becoming a hill too
high decline, but it's the idea that as deviant as
this is, as outrageous as it is, where is the
crimes here? I know we're hearing a lot of testimony
about really kind of sick behavior, But have we heard
(07:02):
a lot about him understanding that consent was not being given?
Have we heard a lot about criminal enterprise? What prosecution's
going to happen?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
You're actually making my teeth hurt? Does he understand lack
of consent? According to the state, the women were drugged
out of their gourds. Didn't you hear about that? Louis
Vuton bag stuffed full of ecstasy, coke, pot Plan B
birth control and I mean just one Plan B birth
(07:32):
control appeal, I mean a whole Louis Vuton bag. Sidney
Sumner tell him what was in the Louis Vuton bag
that comes carried constantly.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
There was quanapin prescribed for Frank Black, which is an
alias that comes used very frequently when booking hotel rooms
for freak off. And they also found pink powder sometimes
referred to as pink cocaine or to us, and that
tested positive for both ketamine and ecstasy.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Rob Shooter is joining me, the PR publicist for Shawn Coms,
former PR, former PR gury for Shawn comes and see
everything went to crap when you left? Host of Not
Even Nice podcast and author of the four Word Answer.
Rob Shooter, question to you, You're hearing about threats from
(08:28):
another star, Don Richard on the stand, threats that people
disappear when they talk. Did many people surrounding Shawn Combs
have to sign an NDA non disclosure agreement?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And why yes, absolutely, there are NDAs everywhere. I did
not sign one, but lots and lots of people that
worked for Puffy did sign NDAs. And this is because
he doesn't want the truth getting out, not necessarily about
the accusations. We are talking about today, but his whole life.
He's a complete control freak. He decides what's in the media,
(09:03):
what's in the press, and what isn't. You don't decide
that he does. An example, even though I didn't have
an NDA with him, every press release I sent out
about Puffy, whether it be playing Broadway, running a marathon,
changing his name, he approved. He approved it, and a
lot of celebrities sort of glance at these Pointy.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Did he change his name so many times?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Rob we get attention, to get attention, We'd literally be
sitting in his conference room and he was like, not
getting a lot of press this week, Let's change my name.
Which is why I have said, and I believe this
in a really perverse way. Did he is enjoying what
is happening right now? He has made himself one of
the most famous people in the world, And in a sick,
(09:46):
perverse way, I think he's secretly enjoying that we're all
talking about shooter.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
What about this pr fail? First of all, we hear
all about did he's tutsy role last week? Rape victim?
When he saw that wasn't as afraid anymore. Then we
have damning testimony on the stand just pouring from Cassie
material with a jury looking over at him like upos. Oh,
(10:14):
now we hear the latest PR fail where Sean Combs
as PR. People are paying just by standers out in
front of the courthouse, paying them twenty dollars an hour
to wear a free Puffy T shirt and the press
found out about it.
Speaker 10 (10:30):
Pathetic, but not surprising.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It seems to be here that Puffy is really waging
a two prong war, a legal war and a PR war.
PR is very important to Puffy. He has spent a
lot of money on publicists and these T shirts. We
shouldn't be that surprised. He's done this before. When I
was working with him, he was trying to get young
people to vote, and he came up with these T
(10:53):
shirts called vote or Died that he sold he made
money from at his store. So I'm wondering if these
T shirts were produced by Sean John his clothing blind.
If not, then I do believe that this would ultimately
get out.
Speaker 10 (11:08):
It's an old PR too. It didn't work back then,
it's not going to work today. Yeah, they just tried
to do almost twenty dollars to wear a pretty fucky
shirt stopped.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I knew I.
Speaker 11 (11:18):
Could tell because the lady right this, she just kept
convincing me to wear to go wear a shirt, and
I'm like, I'm gonna found it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
That's what.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
So that's just twenty dollars.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
And if you guys were you need twenty dollars, all
you have to do is wear free pump shirt.
Speaker 8 (11:33):
Stand out here and you said out yeah, did they
say how many hours?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Twenty hours?
Speaker 6 (11:38):
She told me she got to play like sixty dollars
yesterday for spending hours three hours.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Oh my gosh, did you how the mighty have sunk?
That's from TikTok At Emily knows everything, Rob Shooter or
former PR guru too Sean comes. It's bad enough to
pay people to wear free puffy t shirts, but then
they get busted on it.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Humiliating, stupid. This stuff gets has really really quick in
the press. But my sources are telling me it's actually
worse than what we just saw. But Did his team
has been trying to convince people to just show up.
They want want crowds outside this course house. Insiders are
telling me that Did is really angry that people are
(12:18):
not on the streets. His ego was so big, is
so big that he predicted hundreds, if not thousands, of
people would be outside that court has nobody is really there?
Speaker 10 (12:29):
That's about a hundred or so.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Oh no, dear, he's really angry this time. So he's
mad about his tootsy roll everybody finding out about that.
He is mad about. What is he mad about? Throngs
of people not coming to the courthouse? Did you say thousands?
He expected thousands of people to show up outside the
courthouse to support him.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
You better believe it, Nancy. This guy as a huge ego.
When I was with him, he wanted crowds everywhere, and
we have. If we had to pay for them to
be there, so be it. He has a lot a
lot of money.
Speaker 10 (13:03):
And the things you.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Find people to come out and fawn over Sean comes.
How did you do that? Where did you find them?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You could find people that worked at record labels, You
could find marketing companies, You could find people that would
would find you. You folks to turn up and you
pay them and they wear t shirts. They come to
album signings. This actually might be very unusual in a
legal case, but in the music business, when you see
all those fans lined up outside record stores, quite a
(13:31):
lot of them are actually paid to be there. It's
called the hype business. It's called the business of illusions,
and nobody does it better than did it until now.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Okay, Rob Shooter, do you ever feel bad about everything
you did to prop Diddy up? Oh that was a lie?
And yeah I did, he said, did nothing but a
rapist and a sex traffic are according to prosecutors.
Speaker 10 (13:56):
Yeah, it's all right in there with him.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Man.
Speaker 10 (13:59):
Yeah, well see, I hope hopefully I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I've had many nights when I thought about this and
questioned my consciousness and what did I see?
Speaker 10 (14:07):
Did I see any red flags?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And so yeah, I think a lot of people today
who turned him into a star, turned him into the
guy he is today.
Speaker 10 (14:15):
Have some guilds, hopefully a lot of guilds, and people
should say sorry I have.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
But I do think too a lot of people that
worked with him are going to say this is totally different.
Speaker 10 (14:26):
I don't agree.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
The fact that we helped make him into a superstar,
helped him become this monster at least act out and
get away. It looks like what he did for over
two decades.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, Rob Shooter, you and I go way back,
you know, how I feel about you. Very often people
that I like or respect, or witnesses I've never met,
they look back and they think, wow, I should have
filled in the blank, or I didn't realize. I've said
that I didn't realize what was happening. I couldn't see
(15:04):
it when you look back, you know, propping him up
like you know, you've got reshort on the stand. Describe
me how she saw Sean Combe's take a frying pan
full of eggs and beat Cassie with it, and you
know it had to be hot too, but still had
the eggs in it, beat her with it, and people
(15:25):
described not so she had on her head. And then
you've got Carrie Morgan. I mean, it goes on and on,
and there's gonna be more. There's gonna be more people.
Didn't they see anything? Or were they just oblivious, blinded
by all that money and power.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It's a really good question. I think a little bit
of both. I honestly think that I didn't see this.
But it was over twenty years ago when I worked
with Puff. It was the beginning of the monster. He
was just sort of forming himself as the celebrity that
he used today. I was with him in the beginning. Now,
I don't think people change, but I do think the
power that he gained over the years allowed him to
(16:05):
become or at least to express those feelings that he
had inside. But also to Nansie, I do think about
this a lot. Did I not see stuff because he
was paying me a lot of money? Did I not
see stuff because I in great restaurants and flew on
private planes with him? And I hope the answer, I
hope the answer to that is one that I can
(16:26):
live with.
Speaker 11 (16:27):
The defense also questions Cassie on what she meant when
she told investigators Colms was acting strangely leading up to
and during the rape. Cassie said Colmbs was acting nice
but strange during their meal before the rape, did not
respond to her screams and cries during the attack, and
left without any interaction afterward. Anna Esteveo asked if Cassie
(16:51):
thought Comb's odd behavior may have been tied to his
bipolar disorder, the first time the court has heard about
this diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
His what Brett Brown joining me executive director of Surviving
Assault Standing Strong. It's a nonprofit whose mission is eradicating
sex attacks and sex trafficking On women and girls. So
instead of putting up a doctor, they get the woman
(17:22):
he has beaten for years, according to the State, raped
on video, drugged, harassed, threatened. They're asking her if he's
got a bipolar problem, if he's been is he diagnosed
with bipolar? Maybe that's why he raped you. Can you
(17:42):
believe asking an alleged rape victim. Well, wait, maybe he
did it because he's bipolar. Are you serious?
Speaker 12 (17:49):
It's insane. This whole lineup is insane because they're putting
both the possibility of bipolar and drug use on her
shoulders to decide what state of mind was he in
when he committed these heinous crimes. And what's funny to
me is they're saying recreational drug use means that he
was not responsible for his actions, and in the same
time frame saying recreational drug use made these women responsible
(18:12):
for their actions. And if I remember correctly, the federal
trafficking laws commercial sex Act, induced by force, fraud of coercion.
Doing drugs even recreationally, removes your ability to give consent
i e. Coercion, and if it's in exchange for money,
that makes it commercial. So the whole thing is insane.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Two special guests joining us. Chris McDonough, director at the
Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective for My Purposes, former
vice detective. He is the star of the Interview Room
on YouTube. Chris McDonough, If I'm bipolar was the defense
or I was high on drugs and alcohol was the defense?
(18:53):
Everybody in the NBC would walk that all climbed their
bipolar and on drugs and alcohol at the time they
rape kill Rob fill in the blank.
Speaker 13 (19:02):
Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And doesn't it feel like the universe
is on schedule here?
Speaker 11 (19:08):
Uh?
Speaker 13 (19:08):
You know, I think astro Glide is going to have
a whole new meeting in Block four where he's being housed.
What we're witnessing here is a going out of business
sale with the largest pimp in the world disguised as
a music mogul. You know, now you're going to put
on your past victims to say that you have a
(19:29):
mental disorder.
Speaker 10 (19:31):
It's looted.
Speaker 13 (19:32):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's crazy crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I'm
just thinking this through, claiming now that he is bipolar
to Rob Shooter, a long time pr grew two. Shawkin's
(19:55):
not working for him anymore. Rob Shooter did you ever
know him to be by polar?
Speaker 10 (20:01):
No? No, no.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Even though I haven't worked with him for a while,
I've obviously covered his career. I'm an entertainment reported now,
I've never heard of this. To bring it up at
this moment, it's so desperate, it's so wrong, it's so silly.
I think I hope the jury will see through it.
But it's just another instant that just shows you how
clueless he is. And why I say Puffy's clueless is
(20:23):
trust me, Puffy is running this defense. He is out there,
He's telling his lawyers what he wants. He's not the
type of guy to sit back and take advice. He
is running the show, and this is the show he
thinks is going to get him off.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Hey, Rob Shooter, there is word from believable sources that
he is insisting he is going to take the stand
over counsel objection. Do you believe he'll do it?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I only hope he does.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, I think you do. Nancy, You're absolutely right. Stupid,
stupid move.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
But try telling him that, Try telling.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Him that he shouldn't do this. He's not used to
being told no. He could argue, and I would give
him some credibility here, Nancy. He could argue he has
been a brilliant businessman for the last twenty years. He's
made really smart decisions and his bank account seems to
prove him right.
Speaker 10 (21:23):
So it's very.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Difficult himself made people who have made billions of dollars
that they are wrong.
Speaker 10 (21:29):
They don't want to hear it. They're not going to listen.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Mindsight is are confirming your report in Nancy that he is.
Speaker 10 (21:36):
He is going to take the.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Stand testimony pouring from the witness stand all day long
and joining us outside the courthouse. Lauren Connlin, investigative reporter
or star of Pop Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for
being with us. Tell us what's going on in the courtroom.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
Yes, Nancy, it started off pretty pretty interesting this morning
with Diddy's lawyers actually arguing that the case and the witnesses,
it's becoming more of a gossip chamber of some sort.
We also saw Don Rochard finish her direct testimony and
get cross examined. And what's come into question, Nancy, is
(22:13):
all of Don Rochard's previous statements to the government as
they appeared to change.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
And we learned this.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
When the defense came up to cross examine her, and
Don Rochard actually admitted herself that her testimony has changed
based on her memories, specifically after the skillet incident. She
testified last week and today that Diddy and Harve Pierre,
one of his Bad Boy Record executives, actually said to
her that if she told, people go missing if they tell.
(22:43):
And the defense pointed out that she had never said
this to the government, and she admitted that, you know,
she didn't remember.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You mentioned a quote skillet incident, and this is Don
Rochard recounting when Shawn comes actually beat Cassie Ventier in
the head with a frying pan. Could you explain what happened?
Speaker 6 (23:03):
Yes, So Don Richard first testified on Friday that she
was recording you that at Ditty's La home with her bandmate.
They were in this Ditty Dirty Money group or dirty Money,
and Cassie was making eggs at the stove. Diddy came
down the stairs and she said that he attacked her
or tried to hit her with this frying pan, and
that Cassie appeared to go down in a fetal position
(23:26):
and then he dragged her up the stairs. Now, Don Richard,
during her redirect with the government after she was called
out for changing her story.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
She said, without a doubt that she knows that Diddy
hurt Cassie.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
She was in the fetal position and she saw her
get dragged up the stairs.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
A skillett a frying pan full of eggs. Now, you stated,
Lourene Conlin, that Richard has changed her testimony. I'm very
curious changed it how exactly?
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Well, theirst first thing that the defense pointed out is
that she never told the government and I believe that
she had about eight meetings that Ditty never said to
her people go missing, and this is essentially a death threat. Additionally,
they pointed out that in her civil lawsuit, there was
some kind of incident that was recounted about Diddy dragging
(24:20):
Cassie out of a car onto grass and a lot
of people thaw and Don Richard actually said, oh, that
was a mistake that my lawyers made, and I guess
they were referring to another incident.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
We learned this in the redirect.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
So there was that, and there was a couple other
instances where she left certain things.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Wait a minute, minute, wait a minute, So Lauren Conlin.
One of the things that the defense tried to make
sound like it's inconsistent. Was actually another violent incident.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Yes, that is pertaining to her civil lawsuit, her twenty
twenty four civil lawsuit. But what's interesting is that don
Richard testified that over time her memory has gotten better
because she wanted to suppress a lot of these bad
memories from working with Diddy. She worked so hard to
not remember them, and now you know she's been working
(25:09):
with the government to remember them.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Did she try to intervene on behalf of Cassie Ventura? Yes,
and last you were just discussing inconsistencies that she had
not used the words Diddy threatened that or his hinch
person that people disappear when they talk. What phraseology, if any,
(25:34):
did she use when she was talking to the state.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
She left that completely out, but said that Diddy said
to her what you witnessed was passion.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Cassie is is okay.
Speaker 6 (25:45):
Harry Morgan, Cassie's former best friend, was on the stand
and she testified that after the March twenty sixteen incident,
and this is crazy, Uh, she was at Cassie's house,
Cassie walked in with the hood of bla black eye,
put her back down, appeared to be extremely numb, and
then about thirty minutes later, Carrie Morgan alleged that Diddy
(26:07):
showed up outside the door, banging on it with a hammer.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Straight out to Josh Ritter joining us, a veteran criminal
defense attorney, former prosecutor, host of Courtroom Confidential on YouTube, Josh,
thank you for being with us. So you say tomato,
I say tomato. She in multiple interviews with the state
prior to testimony, stated that she was threatened with physical
(26:33):
harm if she talked, In other words, told anyone about
Cassie's beatings today. The way she described it was, people
disappear if they talk, people go missing. I don't see
that that says big of a point as the defense
is trying to make it be.
Speaker 9 (26:51):
I actually think it is a big point. I mean,
we're talking about prior inconsistent statements, the idea that she
is trying to say that her memory has improved over time.
I mean, I'm no memory expert, but that's laughable to me,
and I think it'll be laughable to a jury. That
is not how memory works. We don't all of a
sudden feel stronger and more detailed about our memories, certainly
(27:14):
over things that have taken place years and years ago.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Cassi Ventira on the stand in the court of law
and the criminal trial of Sean Comes aka Diddy.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
And what is that I'm hearing?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Oh yeah, it's a death knell. Joining me from the
courthouse is Lauren Conlin in the courtroom throughout the day. Lauren,
First of all, let's just start chronologically to Cassi Ventira
taking the stand. They did a long lead up to
her to put her on the stand. Tell me how
(27:51):
was the jury responding to her testimony.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
Cassie did get to the point where she discussed the
psychological abuse as well as the physical abuse that she
received from Diddy, and the jury was listening intently. And
it's also interesting because Sean Colmes seems to be pretty
stoic throughout this. Now one thing that also seems to
be present throughout her testimony is how much Cassie actually
(28:17):
loved him at one point. So I believe that they
are going to move on and start really focusing on
the abuse. But so far, it's it's been tough. It's
been hard for everybody, and Cassy herself had needed some
moments to wipe her nose, take some breaths. She does
appear very very sad and very very somber and as
(28:39):
you know, very pregnant.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
You know, it's really interesting, Lauren Collin. One of the
first things that Seawan comes is ten million dollar defense
team did was demand that she be seated in the
witness seat before the jury came in so they could
not see her baby Bailly happened.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
Well, they had been discussing this previously, about how pregnant
she looked and the fact that maybe the jury could
feel sympathy for her. So yeah, she was brought in first,
and then the jury was brought in.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Cassie Ventura described how frea
Costs actually became a job lasting thirty six to forty
eight hours, the longest one lasting up to four days.
No wonder the participants needed IV fluids after a Frea
(29:42):
coll I'm just curious to Lauren Collin joining us at
the courthouse, how was the jury responding.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
What I will say is Cassie made a point to
say that when she wasn't making music, she was actually
having to quote recover from these freak offs. And again
she she did say these freak offs lasted between one
and four days and it would take her an equal
amount of time to get her body recovered, to rehydrate,
to rest, to detox from these drugs.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
It was really really sad to listen.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
To joining us an All Star panel to make sense
of what we are learning. Also, Lauren Conlin, we are
learning that the defense made an argument to the jury
through their cross examination and in their opening statements that
the victims in this case were quote strong women that
(30:34):
had millions of reasons to stay in the relationship with
Shawn Combs. In other words, that is a peak and
to what their cross examination is going to be of
Cassie Ventira trying to state that she wanted to be
in the relationship, she was a willing participant in the relationship,
and she got a lot of money from Sean Combs.
(30:56):
Do you see that going anywhere? Do you recall that
was part of their opening statements.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
Yes, it was part of their opening statements. They made
a point to say that these women are all in
control of their lives. The other Jane, she is a
single mom. They said, she makes decisions, you know, for
her children and for her family, so she could easily
get out of this relationship. But what I do think
was interesting, Nancy is. During Cassie's testimony, she said that
(31:22):
Sean Holmes did pay for a number of her homes,
but she paid for a home, a home that she
had in Studio City, and she was thrilled that she
could finally pay for a home. And she wasn't tethered
to Shawn Holmes. She had something of her own. So
I thought this was really interesting. You know, it made
us realize that she wasn't heavily reliant on him. She
(31:44):
did want to separate from him. He was just making
it incredibly difficult to do.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So, Guys, the argument is going to be made to
the jury not to believe Cassie Ventura now on the
stand throughout the afternoon, the jury listening intently to everything
she has to say, and to you. Sidney Sumner joining us,
also covering the case from the very beginning, Crime Story's
investigative reporter. She made quite the impression when she walked
(32:10):
into that courtroom, even though Sean Comes had at one
point demanded the jury not be exposed to her pregnant stomach.
Describe what she looked like, Sidney Fancy.
Speaker 8 (32:22):
Today, Cassie's wearing a body con a tight turtleneck brown
dress to really show off that baby bump, so the
jury is very interested in her. Homes actually turned around
in his seat to watch her as she crossed the
room to the witness stand. Kathy is very obviously about
(32:42):
to pop. She's eight and a half months pregnant, so
that's very clear.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Garagos also insists the women in the government claims Combs
exploited were absolutely they're willingly. Garigs says the women who
will take the stand against Combs were strong, capable, and
in love with the men they now call their abuser.
Garrigos points out that Cassie stayed for ten years. Garrigo says, well,
everyone may agree that Combs was a bad boyfriend, he
(33:08):
did not force women to be with him. Garrigos suggests
that Comb's abusers have several million reasons to come forward now,
all of them money.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
A bad boyfriend. I'm so glad they said that in
opening statements. I'm so glad that they reduced the state's
case down and everything these victims have to say to
Shawn COM's being a bad Oh, there it is again.
The defense actually said this is all about Shawn Comb's
(33:37):
being a bad boyfriend. Well, a multi count federal indictment
says something very different straight out to special guests joining
us Rob Shooter. She the prosecutor, Emily Johnson stated that
there were two Shawn Combs. The one that beats people,
leaving knots on their heads, dragging them up and down halls,
(33:57):
just performing all sorts of dem demeaning and humiliating acts
on the women. But then there's the other. Sean comes
the start, the celebrity who's charming and gregarious. Did you
see both sides of comes we knew worked for him
as a public relations person.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, didd he is a very very complicated person. He's
very much in control. He controls his own narrative. He
determines how he wants to be presented, he determines what
photographs he wants released of him. And so this is
a celebrity who's very aware of manipulating his public image.
He's done really really good job of convincing us that
(34:39):
he is somebody that now we know isn't the truth.
And so I think with Diddy, we all see one
side of him for over what two decades? Now we
think we know Didd he he's that fun guy.
Speaker 10 (34:51):
Look at him.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Partying is out, he throws great events, he's funny. We've
seen him on talk shows where he's been witty and charming.
Speaker 10 (35:00):
I know that that isn't the truth. That did he
did hey.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Behind the scenes. The truth about Diddy is much much
more dark.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
You know, I'm going to circle back to you, but
you sparked a thought in my mind. Back out to
the courthouse with Lauren Collins standing by, is it true
that Sean Combs actually took out a Bible in front
of the jury.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
Yeah, he appeared to be flipping through a Bible at
one point. He gave a thumbs up to his kids,
waved and blue kisses at his mother and he Yeah,
he did seemed to calm down after that. And when
the jury walked in, I noticed that Diddy did not
take his eyes off of them.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Eric Fattus, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of Colorado
founding partner Varner Fattus, elite legal former felony prosecutor. I'm
all for reading the Bible, and I am all for
being close to the Lord, but when it is used
as a stunt, I mean, it's one thing to ask forgiveness.
(36:03):
Of course, I'm certainly no biblical scholar. Right, It's one
thing to ask for forgiveness, but it's another thing to
ask for our Holy Father to get our ass out
of a slang technical legal term, I mean, it's a ploy,
fattest a ploy. And I find that very off putting,
(36:26):
very off putting. Not necessarily the family, because I can
only imagine what comes to his mother is going through.
But I mean, in my mind, his family is innocent.
You know, he's got those young girls and other children,
but him the gall trying to use the Bible, the
Holy Bible as a prop.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Yeah, this one seems hard for even me to the financy.
I mean, look in the courtroom, it appears so transparent
what he's trying to do in terms of garnering sympathy.
He should be paying attention to the trots. He should
be giving input to his counsel. He should be listening
to the testimony and raising points with his attorneys that
they can used to try to help it. Instead, he's
(37:06):
sitting there kind of putting on this act with the
Bible that everybody and their brother can see right through.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I think back to Rob Sheoter joining us, we see
him manipulating the jury in the way he is dressing.
I mean just curious. Did you ever see Sean Comes
wearing reading glasses?
Speaker 8 (37:24):
Never?
Speaker 10 (37:25):
Not once.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I never saw him without his head being perfectly styled.
I never saw him without a Maani, a Gucci, a
product you know.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yesterday I was told, no way would Shawn Combs have
a stylist. B s. He's got a stylist, He's got
a jury consultant, He's got a fleet of highly paid
lawyers to the tune of ten million dollars. So is
there any chance in h e double l that Shawn
(37:58):
Comes His outfits are not carefully orchestrated. No chance.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
He will have looked over look books. He will have
had conversations whether or not he should be wearing his
own fashion line. He has a fashion line called Sean John.
They decided against this, and so I've never seen him
in a button down white shirt and a sweater at
a jumper.
Speaker 10 (38:20):
That just isn't how he dresses.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
But that's how he's going to dress for the next
couple of weeks because he wants that jewelry to think
of him as mister Rogers, the neighbor next door, the
guy they can trust that's what he wants them to think,
and that's what he's selling. And I got to admit it, Nancy,
I'm not happy about this, but I think he's doing
a pretty good job at selling this side of him.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Wash your filthy mouth out with soap you brought up,
mister Rogers. Let me ask you, in all the time
that you worked for Sean Combs, did you ever see
him read the Bible? Never?
Speaker 10 (39:04):
Once?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I didn't see him quote the Bible talk about the Bible.
There was only one God in Didy's world, and that
was Did.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Did he raging over last week's TUTSI roll reveal? Oh? No? Did?
He's really angry this time? So he's mad about his
TITSI roll? Everybody finding out about that he is mad about?
What is he mad about? Throngs of people not coming
to the courthouse. Ever since I started investigating Shaw Combs,
(39:35):
all I've thought about was candy, candy, candy. You know what.
I can barely open this tutsi rold Midgie. You know
suddenly I've lost my appetite Shawn Combs, and I think
it's because of you. We are learning that in one
episode one freak ofugh as it is ephemistically called some
(39:56):
people call it sex trafficking. That Shaw com actually dressed
as a Muslim woman and a conservative dress a burka
where all you see are just the little slits of
the eyes. Now, yes, Sean Combs was dressed and conservative
(40:18):
female Muslim dress at berka from the neck up, from
the neck down. Quite the dichotomy. He was entirely nude.
Straight out to Lauren Colin standing by at the courthouse,
uh burka, who is the punisher?
Speaker 6 (40:36):
We heard the testimony of Shara Hayes aka the Punisher.
Another escort that used to work with Cassie and Ditty,
and this escort testified that he heard Cassie sigh a
few times when she was being directed by Ditty during
these freak offs.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
He mentioned a lot of.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
The same things that the other escort mentioned on the stand.
Daniel Phillip, the way the room setup.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Right now, we not only remember, but we acknowledge American heroes,
typically women from every corner of our great country, that
come forward and speak out against rape, against sex trafficking,
against abuse, even though they are facing horrible odds, possibly retribution,
(41:28):
possibly losing their job, possibly losing their career, but coming
forward and speaking the truth to all of you witnesses,
all of you victims. We salute you, and please never
(41:49):
be quiet. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace State versus Sean Combs aka
Diddy aka Puff aka Puffy aka puff Daddy aka Love.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
He wants that jewelry to think of him as mister Rogers.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Wash your filthy mouth out with soap. He is a
criminal from the beginning to the end.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Everyone may agree that Combs was a bad boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
A bad boyfriend, a bad boy lifestyle.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Isn't the same thing as a criminal lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Oh yeah, it's a death knell. We are live at
the courthouse and joining us now investigative reporter Lauren Colin,
star of Pop Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for being
with us. A lot happening in the courtroom today.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
What happened after Kid Cutti took the stand?
Speaker 6 (00:54):
Today we heard from a celebrity makeup artist, Myran Morales,
who was very good friends with cass and she described
an altercation before the VMA's in twenty ten where she
was in a conjoining room. So I guess two double
sweets is how I understood it. And she talked about
how she heard but didn't see what appeared to be
(01:17):
a altercation between Cassie and Ditty, and she saw Cassie's
injuries after the fact, she told Cassie to go to
the hospital and Cassie did not, But she testified that
she remained close with Cassie and Cassie felt comfortable enough
to stay at her house. She even said that during
one occasion, she called one of her doctor friends to
(01:38):
come over and look at Cassie's injuries, and she also
had Cassie talk to one of her lawyer friends, but
nothing ever came of that. During the cross examination done
by Anna Staveo, she really hammered Morales on the fact
that she's done two documentaries about Ditty and multiple media
interviews totaling eight. She also got Morales to admit that
(02:01):
she sold photos of Kim Porder for money and took
money from one of the documentaries in order to expense therapy.
And then we saw a homeland security agent who specialized
in digital forensics. He went through how he was able
to obtain different footage from Cassie's three different devices, these
(02:22):
mac book devices from twenty ten and possibly even earlier,
and he made sure to tell us in very technical
terms chain of custody, how he did this and how.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
He was able to extract the data.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
A lot of the messages came from being stored on iTunes,
which is what we used to use before we had
the iCloud.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
And then he explained why you.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
Might see some issues with the way messages are shown
based on the extraction, because we have seen double messages,
we've seen blank messages. So he was explaining this to
us now when Tony Gergoez got up to do her
cross she asked about it was one of the MacBooks
that had two user names on the login screen.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
One was Frank Black.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
Which we know was one of Ditty's aliases, and the
other one was a guest user. The HSI agent confirmed
that no data was extracted from the one user, but
when Garagos was finished and they did the redirect, they
really made sure to say that they only extracted data
(03:28):
from Frank Black after they got a search warrant because
Cassie she willingly gave over her devices, but it's clear
Frank Black is one of Ditty's aliases and so they
needed a warrant for that. We also heard from the
general manager of the Hermitage Hotel and Beverly Hills, and
essentially what he showed us was different names that were
(03:51):
used to check into these hotels. Frank Black, we saw
Frank White, we saw Jackie's Star, which we know is Cassie.
And then we saw notes that they took that are
they just helped the hotel staff know who's coming to
the hotel what to expect, and it was a lot
of corroboration in these notes as to what to expect.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
When Frank Black or Sean Combs arrives.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
There were notes that the cleaning staff should add one
thousand dollars extra for a deep clean or for damages
because they noted that there was candle wax everywhere, candle
waxes on the carpet, on the nightstands. They also noticed
or noted that there would be oil spilled everywhere and
they would have to do a deep clean. So again
(04:38):
there was a lot of corroboration, and there was no
cross examination for the hotel manager, Evan.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
It was pouring from the witness stand and we are
alluring that even when Sean Combs is arrested, knowing that
he may turn himself in, even that night, when his
five star hotel is rated, it's full a damning evides.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
Listen, Homeland Security special agent, you've seen Binda who searched
Seawan Comb's Manhattan Park Hyatt Hotel suite the day of
his arrest. Bottles of baby oil and Loube were scattered
throughout the suite, and a lighting device was found in
the living room. Pill bottles found in a Louis Vauton
toiletry bag contained klonopin prescribed for frank black in a
(05:25):
pink powder that tested positive for ketamine and MDMA. A
fanny pack contained nine thousand dollars cash, and Benda said
it appeared a woman was staying in the room with Combs.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
That's not all that was found. Shawn Combs planning a
freak off and a five star hotel in Manhattan when
he's arrested. Sidney's Sumner joining us. What is astro glide?
Speaker 8 (05:49):
Astroglide is lubrication for sexual purposes?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Nancy, Okay, I'm just curious, Josh Ritter, You're so busy
planning how you can destroy Donna Schard on the stand,
How can tear her testimony into shreds? You tell me
after all this, and this is after a federal multi
count indictment. There he is the night of his arrest
(06:17):
with a hotel room stuffed stuffed with astroglide, multiple bottles
of baby oil, all sorts of lubricants, sex aids, and
tons of cash and drugs. I mean, the man can't
help himself. He is a criminal from the beginning to
the end. This is the night of his arrest.
Speaker 9 (06:40):
Yeah, I don't know where to go with that. It
doesn't look good. You're absolutely right. Here's the thing, though,
that the defense is going to have to continue to
hammer home. And maybe this is becoming a hill too
high decline, but it's the idea that as deviant as
this is, as outrageous as it is, where is the
crimes here? I know we're hearing a lot of testimony
about really kind of sick behavior, But have we heard
(07:02):
a lot about him understanding that consent was not being given?
Have we heard a lot about criminal enterprise? What prosecution's
going to happen?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
You're actually making my teeth hurt? Does he understand lack
of consent? According to the state, the women were drugged
out of their gourds. Didn't you hear about that? Louis
Vuton bag stuffed full of ecstasy, coke, pot Plan B
birth control and I mean just one Plan B birth
(07:32):
control appeal, I mean a whole Louis Vuton bag. Sidney
Sumner tell him what was in the Louis Vuton bag
that comes carried constantly.
Speaker 8 (07:44):
There was quanapin prescribed for Frank Black, which is an
alias that comes used very frequently when booking hotel rooms
for freak off. And they also found pink powder sometimes
referred to as pink cocaine or to us, and that
tested positive for both ketamine and ecstasy.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Rob Shooter is joining me, the PR publicist for Shawn Coms,
former PR, former PR gury for Shawn comes and see
everything went to crap when you left? Host of Not
Even Nice podcast and author of the four Word Answer.
Rob Shooter, question to you, You're hearing about threats from
(08:28):
another star, Don Richard on the stand, threats that people
disappear when they talk. Did many people surrounding Shawn Combs
have to sign an NDA non disclosure agreement?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And why yes, absolutely, there are NDAs everywhere. I did
not sign one, but lots and lots of people that
worked for Puffy did sign NDAs. And this is because
he doesn't want the truth getting out, not necessarily about
the accusations. We are talking about today, but his whole life.
He's a complete control freak. He decides what's in the media,
(09:03):
what's in the press, and what isn't. You don't decide
that he does. An example, even though I didn't have
an NDA with him, every press release I sent out
about Puffy, whether it be playing Broadway, running a marathon,
changing his name, he approved. He approved it, and a
lot of celebrities sort of glance at these Pointy.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Did he change his name so many times?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Rob we get attention, to get attention, We'd literally be
sitting in his conference room and he was like, not
getting a lot of press this week, Let's change my name.
Which is why I have said, and I believe this
in a really perverse way. Did he is enjoying what
is happening right now? He has made himself one of
the most famous people in the world, And in a sick,
(09:46):
perverse way, I think he's secretly enjoying that we're all
talking about shooter.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
What about this pr fail? First of all, we hear
all about did he's tutsy role last week? Rape victim?
When he saw that wasn't as afraid anymore. Then we
have damning testimony on the stand just pouring from Cassie
material with a jury looking over at him like upos. Oh,
(10:14):
now we hear the latest PR fail where Sean Combs
as PR. People are paying just by standers out in
front of the courthouse, paying them twenty dollars an hour
to wear a free Puffy T shirt and the press
found out about it.
Speaker 10 (10:30):
Pathetic, but not surprising.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It seems to be here that Puffy is really waging
a two prong war, a legal war and a PR war.
PR is very important to Puffy. He has spent a
lot of money on publicists and these T shirts. We
shouldn't be that surprised. He's done this before. When I
was working with him, he was trying to get young
people to vote, and he came up with these T
(10:53):
shirts called vote or Died that he sold he made
money from at his store. So I'm wondering if these
T shirts were produced by Sean John his clothing blind.
If not, then I do believe that this would ultimately
get out.
Speaker 10 (11:08):
It's an old PR too. It didn't work back then,
it's not going to work today. Yeah, they just tried
to do almost twenty dollars to wear a pretty fucky
shirt stopped.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I knew I.
Speaker 11 (11:18):
Could tell because the lady right this, she just kept
convincing me to wear to go wear a shirt, and
I'm like, I'm gonna found it.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
That's what.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
So that's just twenty dollars.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
And if you guys were you need twenty dollars, all
you have to do is wear free pump shirt.
Speaker 8 (11:33):
Stand out here and you said out yeah, did they
say how many hours?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Twenty hours?
Speaker 6 (11:38):
She told me she got to play like sixty dollars
yesterday for spending hours three hours.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Oh my gosh, did you how the mighty have sunk?
That's from TikTok At Emily knows everything, Rob Shooter or
former PR guru too Sean comes. It's bad enough to
pay people to wear free puffy t shirts, but then
they get busted on it.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Humiliating, stupid. This stuff gets has really really quick in
the press. But my sources are telling me it's actually
worse than what we just saw. But Did his team
has been trying to convince people to just show up.
They want want crowds outside this course house. Insiders are
telling me that Did is really angry that people are
(12:18):
not on the streets. His ego was so big, is
so big that he predicted hundreds, if not thousands, of
people would be outside that court has nobody is really there?
Speaker 10 (12:29):
That's about a hundred or so.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Oh no, dear, he's really angry this time. So he's
mad about his tootsy roll everybody finding out about that.
He is mad about. What is he mad about? Throngs
of people not coming to the courthouse? Did you say thousands?
He expected thousands of people to show up outside the
courthouse to support him.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
You better believe it, Nancy. This guy as a huge ego.
When I was with him, he wanted crowds everywhere, and
we have. If we had to pay for them to
be there, so be it. He has a lot a
lot of money.
Speaker 10 (13:03):
And the things you.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Find people to come out and fawn over Sean comes.
How did you do that? Where did you find them?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
You could find people that worked at record labels, You
could find marketing companies, You could find people that would
would find you. You folks to turn up and you
pay them and they wear t shirts. They come to
album signings. This actually might be very unusual in a
legal case, but in the music business, when you see
all those fans lined up outside record stores, quite a
(13:31):
lot of them are actually paid to be there. It's
called the hype business. It's called the business of illusions,
and nobody does it better than did it until now.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Okay, Rob Shooter, do you ever feel bad about everything
you did to prop Diddy up? Oh that was a lie?
And yeah I did, he said, did nothing but a
rapist and a sex traffic are according to prosecutors.
Speaker 10 (13:56):
Yeah, it's all right in there with him.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Man.
Speaker 10 (13:59):
Yeah, well see, I hope hopefully I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I've had many nights when I thought about this and
questioned my consciousness and what did I see?
Speaker 10 (14:07):
Did I see any red flags?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
And so yeah, I think a lot of people today
who turned him into a star, turned him into the
guy he is today.
Speaker 10 (14:15):
Have some guilds, hopefully a lot of guilds, and people
should say sorry I have.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
But I do think too a lot of people that
worked with him are going to say this is totally different.
Speaker 10 (14:26):
I don't agree.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
The fact that we helped make him into a superstar,
helped him become this monster at least act out and
get away. It looks like what he did for over
two decades.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
You know, Rob Shooter, you and I go way back,
you know, how I feel about you. Very often people
that I like or respect, or witnesses I've never met,
they look back and they think, wow, I should have
filled in the blank, or I didn't realize. I've said
that I didn't realize what was happening. I couldn't see
(15:04):
it when you look back, you know, propping him up
like you know, you've got reshort on the stand. Describe
me how she saw Sean Combe's take a frying pan
full of eggs and beat Cassie with it, and you
know it had to be hot too, but still had
the eggs in it, beat her with it, and people
(15:25):
described not so she had on her head. And then
you've got Carrie Morgan. I mean, it goes on and on,
and there's gonna be more. There's gonna be more people.
Didn't they see anything? Or were they just oblivious, blinded
by all that money and power.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
It's a really good question. I think a little bit
of both. I honestly think that I didn't see this.
But it was over twenty years ago when I worked
with Puff. It was the beginning of the monster. He
was just sort of forming himself as the celebrity that
he used today. I was with him in the beginning. Now,
I don't think people change, but I do think the
power that he gained over the years allowed him to
(16:05):
become or at least to express those feelings that he
had inside. But also to Nansie, I do think about
this a lot. Did I not see stuff because he
was paying me a lot of money? Did I not
see stuff because I in great restaurants and flew on
private planes with him? And I hope the answer, I
hope the answer to that is one that I can
(16:26):
live with.
Speaker 11 (16:27):
The defense also questions Cassie on what she meant when
she told investigators Colms was acting strangely leading up to
and during the rape. Cassie said Colmbs was acting nice
but strange during their meal before the rape, did not
respond to her screams and cries during the attack, and
left without any interaction afterward. Anna Esteveo asked if Cassie
(16:51):
thought Comb's odd behavior may have been tied to his
bipolar disorder, the first time the court has heard about
this diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
His what Brett Brown joining me executive director of Surviving
Assault Standing Strong. It's a nonprofit whose mission is eradicating
sex attacks and sex trafficking On women and girls. So
instead of putting up a doctor, they get the woman
(17:22):
he has beaten for years, according to the State, raped
on video, drugged, harassed, threatened. They're asking her if he's
got a bipolar problem, if he's been is he diagnosed
with bipolar? Maybe that's why he raped you. Can you
(17:42):
believe asking an alleged rape victim. Well, wait, maybe he
did it because he's bipolar. Are you serious?
Speaker 12 (17:49):
It's insane. This whole lineup is insane because they're putting
both the possibility of bipolar and drug use on her
shoulders to decide what state of mind was he in
when he committed these heinous crimes. And what's funny to
me is they're saying recreational drug use means that he
was not responsible for his actions, and in the same
time frame saying recreational drug use made these women responsible
(18:12):
for their actions. And if I remember correctly, the federal
trafficking laws commercial sex Act, induced by force, fraud of coercion.
Doing drugs even recreationally, removes your ability to give consent
i e. Coercion, and if it's in exchange for money,
that makes it commercial. So the whole thing is insane.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Two special guests joining us. Chris McDonough, director at the
Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective for My Purposes, former
vice detective. He is the star of the Interview Room
on YouTube. Chris McDonough, If I'm bipolar was the defense
or I was high on drugs and alcohol was the defense?
(18:53):
Everybody in the NBC would walk that all climbed their
bipolar and on drugs and alcohol at the time they
rape kill Rob fill in the blank.
Speaker 13 (19:02):
Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And doesn't it feel like the universe
is on schedule here?
Speaker 11 (19:08):
Uh?
Speaker 13 (19:08):
You know, I think astro Glide is going to have
a whole new meeting in Block four where he's being housed.
What we're witnessing here is a going out of business
sale with the largest pimp in the world disguised as
a music mogul. You know, now you're going to put
on your past victims to say that you have a
(19:29):
mental disorder.
Speaker 10 (19:31):
It's looted.
Speaker 13 (19:32):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's crazy crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I'm
just thinking this through, claiming now that he is bipolar
to Rob Shooter, a long time pr grew two. Shawkin's
(19:55):
not working for him anymore. Rob Shooter did you ever
know him to be by polar?
Speaker 10 (20:01):
No? No, no.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Even though I haven't worked with him for a while,
I've obviously covered his career. I'm an entertainment reported now,
I've never heard of this. To bring it up at
this moment, it's so desperate, it's so wrong, it's so silly.
I think I hope the jury will see through it.
But it's just another instant that just shows you how
clueless he is. And why I say Puffy's clueless is
(20:23):
trust me, Puffy is running this defense. He is out there,
He's telling his lawyers what he wants. He's not the
type of guy to sit back and take advice. He
is running the show, and this is the show he
thinks is going to get him off.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Hey, Rob Shooter, there is word from believable sources that
he is insisting he is going to take the stand
over counsel objection. Do you believe he'll do it?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I only hope he does.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, I think you do. Nancy, You're absolutely right. Stupid,
stupid move.
Speaker 10 (21:01):
But try telling him that, Try telling.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Him that he shouldn't do this. He's not used to
being told no. He could argue, and I would give
him some credibility here, Nancy. He could argue he has
been a brilliant businessman for the last twenty years. He's
made really smart decisions and his bank account seems to
prove him right.
Speaker 10 (21:23):
So it's very.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Difficult himself made people who have made billions of dollars
that they are wrong.
Speaker 10 (21:29):
They don't want to hear it. They're not going to listen.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Mindsight is are confirming your report in Nancy that he is.
Speaker 10 (21:36):
He is going to take the.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Stand testimony pouring from the witness stand all day long
and joining us outside the courthouse. Lauren Connlin, investigative reporter
or star of Pop Crime TV. Lauren, thank you for
being with us. Tell us what's going on in the courtroom.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
Yes, Nancy, it started off pretty pretty interesting this morning
with Diddy's lawyers actually arguing that the case and the witnesses,
it's becoming more of a gossip chamber of some sort.
We also saw Don Rochard finish her direct testimony and
get cross examined. And what's come into question, Nancy, is
(22:13):
all of Don Rochard's previous statements to the government as
they appeared to change.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
And we learned this.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
When the defense came up to cross examine her, and
Don Rochard actually admitted herself that her testimony has changed
based on her memories, specifically after the skillet incident. She
testified last week and today that Diddy and Harve Pierre,
one of his Bad Boy Record executives, actually said to
her that if she told, people go missing if they tell.
(22:43):
And the defense pointed out that she had never said
this to the government, and she admitted that, you know,
she didn't remember.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
You mentioned a quote skillet incident, and this is Don
Rochard recounting when Shawn comes actually beat Cassie Ventier in
the head with a frying pan. Could you explain what happened?
Speaker 6 (23:03):
Yes, So Don Richard first testified on Friday that she
was recording you that at Ditty's La home with her bandmate.
They were in this Ditty Dirty Money group or dirty Money,
and Cassie was making eggs at the stove. Diddy came
down the stairs and she said that he attacked her
or tried to hit her with this frying pan, and
that Cassie appeared to go down in a fetal position
(23:26):
and then he dragged her up the stairs. Now, Don Richard,
during her redirect with the government after she was called
out for changing her story.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
She said, without a doubt that she knows that Diddy
hurt Cassie.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
She was in the fetal position and she saw her
get dragged up the stairs.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
A skillett a frying pan full of eggs. Now, you stated,
Lourene Conlin, that Richard has changed her testimony. I'm very
curious changed it how exactly?
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Well, theirst first thing that the defense pointed out is
that she never told the government and I believe that
she had about eight meetings that Ditty never said to
her people go missing, and this is essentially a death threat. Additionally,
they pointed out that in her civil lawsuit, there was
some kind of incident that was recounted about Diddy dragging
(24:20):
Cassie out of a car onto grass and a lot
of people thaw and Don Richard actually said, oh, that
was a mistake that my lawyers made, and I guess
they were referring to another incident.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
We learned this in the redirect.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
So there was that, and there was a couple other
instances where she left certain things.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Wait a minute, minute, wait a minute, So Lauren Conlin.
One of the things that the defense tried to make
sound like it's inconsistent. Was actually another violent incident.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Yes, that is pertaining to her civil lawsuit, her twenty
twenty four civil lawsuit. But what's interesting is that don
Richard testified that over time her memory has gotten better
because she wanted to suppress a lot of these bad
memories from working with Diddy. She worked so hard to
not remember them, and now you know she's been working
(25:09):
with the government to remember them.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Did she try to intervene on behalf of Cassie Ventura? Yes,
and last you were just discussing inconsistencies that she had
not used the words Diddy threatened that or his hinch
person that people disappear when they talk. What phraseology, if any,
(25:34):
did she use when she was talking to the state.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
She left that completely out, but said that Diddy said
to her what you witnessed was passion.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Cassie is is okay.
Speaker 6 (25:45):
Harry Morgan, Cassie's former best friend, was on the stand
and she testified that after the March twenty sixteen incident,
and this is crazy, Uh, she was at Cassie's house,
Cassie walked in with the hood of bla black eye,
put her back down, appeared to be extremely numb, and
then about thirty minutes later, Carrie Morgan alleged that Diddy
(26:07):
showed up outside the door, banging on it with a hammer.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Straight out to Josh Ritter joining us, a veteran criminal
defense attorney, former prosecutor, host of Courtroom Confidential on YouTube, Josh,
thank you for being with us. So you say tomato,
I say tomato. She in multiple interviews with the state
prior to testimony, stated that she was threatened with physical
(26:33):
harm if she talked, In other words, told anyone about
Cassie's beatings today. The way she described it was, people
disappear if they talk, people go missing. I don't see
that that says big of a point as the defense
is trying to make it be.
Speaker 9 (26:51):
I actually think it is a big point. I mean,
we're talking about prior inconsistent statements, the idea that she
is trying to say that her memory has improved over time.
I mean, I'm no memory expert, but that's laughable to me,
and I think it'll be laughable to a jury. That
is not how memory works. We don't all of a
sudden feel stronger and more detailed about our memories, certainly
(27:14):
over things that have taken place years and years ago.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Cassi Ventira on the stand in the court of law
and the criminal trial of Sean Comes aka Diddy.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
And what is that I'm hearing?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Oh yeah, it's a death knell. Joining me from the
courthouse is Lauren Conlin in the courtroom throughout the day. Lauren,
First of all, let's just start chronologically to Cassi Ventira
taking the stand. They did a long lead up to
her to put her on the stand. Tell me how
(27:51):
was the jury responding to her testimony.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
Cassie did get to the point where she discussed the
psychological abuse as well as the physical abuse that she
received from Diddy, and the jury was listening intently. And
it's also interesting because Sean Colmes seems to be pretty
stoic throughout this. Now one thing that also seems to
be present throughout her testimony is how much Cassie actually
(28:17):
loved him at one point. So I believe that they
are going to move on and start really focusing on
the abuse. But so far, it's it's been tough. It's
been hard for everybody, and Cassy herself had needed some
moments to wipe her nose, take some breaths. She does
appear very very sad and very very somber and as
(28:39):
you know, very pregnant.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
You know, it's really interesting, Lauren Collin. One of the
first things that Seawan comes is ten million dollar defense
team did was demand that she be seated in the
witness seat before the jury came in so they could
not see her baby Bailly happened.
Speaker 6 (29:01):
Well, they had been discussing this previously, about how pregnant
she looked and the fact that maybe the jury could
feel sympathy for her. So yeah, she was brought in first,
and then the jury was brought in.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Cassie Ventura described how frea
Costs actually became a job lasting thirty six to forty
eight hours, the longest one lasting up to four days.
No wonder the participants needed IV fluids after a Frea
(29:42):
coll I'm just curious to Lauren Collin joining us at
the courthouse, how was the jury responding.
Speaker 6 (29:49):
What I will say is Cassie made a point to
say that when she wasn't making music, she was actually
having to quote recover from these freak offs. And again
she she did say these freak offs lasted between one
and four days and it would take her an equal
amount of time to get her body recovered, to rehydrate,
to rest, to detox from these drugs.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
It was really really sad to listen.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
To joining us an All Star panel to make sense
of what we are learning. Also, Lauren Conlin, we are
learning that the defense made an argument to the jury
through their cross examination and in their opening statements that
the victims in this case were quote strong women that
(30:34):
had millions of reasons to stay in the relationship with
Shawn Combs. In other words, that is a peak and
to what their cross examination is going to be of
Cassie Ventira trying to state that she wanted to be
in the relationship, she was a willing participant in the relationship,
and she got a lot of money from Sean Combs.
(30:56):
Do you see that going anywhere? Do you recall that
was part of their opening statements.
Speaker 6 (31:01):
Yes, it was part of their opening statements. They made
a point to say that these women are all in
control of their lives. The other Jane, she is a
single mom. They said, she makes decisions, you know, for
her children and for her family, so she could easily
get out of this relationship. But what I do think
was interesting, Nancy is. During Cassie's testimony, she said that
(31:22):
Sean Holmes did pay for a number of her homes,
but she paid for a home, a home that she
had in Studio City, and she was thrilled that she
could finally pay for a home. And she wasn't tethered
to Shawn Holmes. She had something of her own. So
I thought this was really interesting. You know, it made
us realize that she wasn't heavily reliant on him. She
(31:44):
did want to separate from him. He was just making
it incredibly difficult to do.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So, Guys, the argument is going to be made to
the jury not to believe Cassie Ventura now on the
stand throughout the afternoon, the jury listening intently to everything
she has to say, and to you. Sidney Sumner joining us,
also covering the case from the very beginning, Crime Story's
investigative reporter. She made quite the impression when she walked
(32:10):
into that courtroom, even though Sean Comes had at one
point demanded the jury not be exposed to her pregnant stomach.
Describe what she looked like, Sidney Fancy.
Speaker 8 (32:22):
Today, Cassie's wearing a body con a tight turtleneck brown
dress to really show off that baby bump, so the
jury is very interested in her. Homes actually turned around
in his seat to watch her as she crossed the
room to the witness stand. Kathy is very obviously about
(32:42):
to pop. She's eight and a half months pregnant, so
that's very clear.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Garagos also insists the women in the government claims Combs
exploited were absolutely they're willingly. Garigs says the women who
will take the stand against Combs were strong, capable, and
in love with the men they now call their abuser.
Garrigos points out that Cassie stayed for ten years. Garrigo says, well,
everyone may agree that Combs was a bad boyfriend, he
(33:08):
did not force women to be with him. Garrigos suggests
that Comb's abusers have several million reasons to come forward now,
all of them money.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
A bad boyfriend. I'm so glad they said that in
opening statements. I'm so glad that they reduced the state's
case down and everything these victims have to say to
Shawn COM's being a bad Oh, there it is again.
The defense actually said this is all about Shawn Comb's
(33:37):
being a bad boyfriend. Well, a multi count federal indictment
says something very different straight out to special guests joining
us Rob Shooter. She the prosecutor, Emily Johnson stated that
there were two Shawn Combs. The one that beats people,
leaving knots on their heads, dragging them up and down halls,
(33:57):
just performing all sorts of dem demeaning and humiliating acts
on the women. But then there's the other. Sean comes
the start, the celebrity who's charming and gregarious. Did you
see both sides of comes we knew worked for him
as a public relations person.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, didd he is a very very complicated person. He's
very much in control. He controls his own narrative. He
determines how he wants to be presented, he determines what
photographs he wants released of him. And so this is
a celebrity who's very aware of manipulating his public image.
He's done really really good job of convincing us that
(34:39):
he is somebody that now we know isn't the truth.
And so I think with Diddy, we all see one
side of him for over what two decades? Now we
think we know Didd he he's that fun guy.
Speaker 10 (34:51):
Look at him.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Partying is out, he throws great events, he's funny. We've
seen him on talk shows where he's been witty and charming.
Speaker 10 (35:00):
I know that that isn't the truth. That did he
did hey.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Behind the scenes. The truth about Diddy is much much
more dark.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
You know, I'm going to circle back to you, but
you sparked a thought in my mind. Back out to
the courthouse with Lauren Collins standing by, is it true
that Sean Combs actually took out a Bible in front
of the jury.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
Yeah, he appeared to be flipping through a Bible at
one point. He gave a thumbs up to his kids,
waved and blue kisses at his mother and he Yeah,
he did seemed to calm down after that. And when
the jury walked in, I noticed that Diddy did not
take his eyes off of them.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Eric Fattus, veteran trial lawyer joining me out of Colorado
founding partner Varner Fattus, elite legal former felony prosecutor. I'm
all for reading the Bible, and I am all for
being close to the Lord, but when it is used
as a stunt, I mean, it's one thing to ask forgiveness.
(36:03):
Of course, I'm certainly no biblical scholar. Right, It's one
thing to ask for forgiveness, but it's another thing to
ask for our Holy Father to get our ass out
of a slang technical legal term, I mean, it's a ploy,
fattest a ploy. And I find that very off putting,
(36:26):
very off putting. Not necessarily the family, because I can
only imagine what comes to his mother is going through.
But I mean, in my mind, his family is innocent.
You know, he's got those young girls and other children,
but him the gall trying to use the Bible, the
Holy Bible as a prop.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Yeah, this one seems hard for even me to the financy.
I mean, look in the courtroom, it appears so transparent
what he's trying to do in terms of garnering sympathy.
He should be paying attention to the trots. He should
be giving input to his counsel. He should be listening
to the testimony and raising points with his attorneys that
they can used to try to help it. Instead, he's
(37:06):
sitting there kind of putting on this act with the
Bible that everybody and their brother can see right through.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
I think back to Rob Sheoter joining us, we see
him manipulating the jury in the way he is dressing.
I mean just curious. Did you ever see Sean Comes
wearing reading glasses?
Speaker 8 (37:24):
Never?
Speaker 10 (37:25):
Not once.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I never saw him without his head being perfectly styled.
I never saw him without a Maani, a Gucci, a
product you know.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yesterday I was told, no way would Shawn Combs have
a stylist. B s. He's got a stylist, He's got
a jury consultant, He's got a fleet of highly paid
lawyers to the tune of ten million dollars. So is
there any chance in h e double l that Shawn
(37:58):
Comes His outfits are not carefully orchestrated. No chance.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
He will have looked over look books. He will have
had conversations whether or not he should be wearing his
own fashion line. He has a fashion line called Sean John.
They decided against this, and so I've never seen him
in a button down white shirt and a sweater at
a jumper.
Speaker 10 (38:20):
That just isn't how he dresses.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
But that's how he's going to dress for the next
couple of weeks because he wants that jewelry to think
of him as mister Rogers, the neighbor next door, the
guy they can trust that's what he wants them to think,
and that's what he's selling. And I got to admit it, Nancy,
I'm not happy about this, but I think he's doing
a pretty good job at selling this side of him.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Wash your filthy mouth out with soap you brought up,
mister Rogers. Let me ask you, in all the time
that you worked for Sean Combs, did you ever see
him read the Bible? Never?
Speaker 10 (39:04):
Once?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I didn't see him quote the Bible talk about the Bible.
There was only one God in Didy's world, and that
was Did.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Did he raging over last week's TUTSI roll reveal? Oh? No? Did?
He's really angry this time? So he's mad about his
TITSI roll? Everybody finding out about that he is mad about?
What is he mad about? Throngs of people not coming
to the courthouse. Ever since I started investigating Shaw Combs,
(39:35):
all I've thought about was candy, candy, candy. You know what.
I can barely open this tutsi rold Midgie. You know
suddenly I've lost my appetite Shawn Combs, and I think
it's because of you. We are learning that in one
episode one freak ofugh as it is ephemistically called some
(39:56):
people call it sex trafficking. That Shaw com actually dressed
as a Muslim woman and a conservative dress a burka
where all you see are just the little slits of
the eyes. Now, yes, Sean Combs was dressed and conservative
(40:18):
female Muslim dress at berka from the neck up, from
the neck down. Quite the dichotomy. He was entirely nude.
Straight out to Lauren Colin standing by at the courthouse,
uh burka, who is the punisher?
Speaker 6 (40:36):
We heard the testimony of Shara Hayes aka the Punisher.
Another escort that used to work with Cassie and Ditty,
and this escort testified that he heard Cassie sigh a
few times when she was being directed by Ditty during
these freak offs.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
He mentioned a lot of.
Speaker 6 (40:54):
The same things that the other escort mentioned on the stand.
Daniel Phillip, the way the room setup.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Right now, we not only remember, but we acknowledge American heroes,
typically women from every corner of our great country, that
come forward and speak out against rape, against sex trafficking,
against abuse, even though they are facing horrible odds, possibly retribution,
(41:28):
possibly losing their job, possibly losing their career, but coming
forward and speaking the truth to all of you witnesses,
all of you victims. We salute you, and please never
(41:49):
be quiet. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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