October 10, 2025 • 22 mins
Former Illinois cop Drew Peterson is still behind bars for the murder of his third wife, but his 4th wife Stacy Peterson is still missing. Nancy digs into the case with Drew Peterson's former lawyer Joel Brodsky, Cold Case Research Institute director Sheryl McCollum, psychologist Dr. Chloe Carmichael, and reporter Robyn Walensky.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday Night and
it is special, a coup that murders at least two wives, wow,
and gets away with it for years and years and years.
(00:24):
Of course, I'm talking about the sleeves bag Drew Peterson.
In the last weeks an update in the Drew Peterson case.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. Guys, you do know
Stacy Peterson, wife number four's body has never been found.
(00:49):
He was finally convicted in the murder of his third wife,
Kathleen Savio. She was found dead, covered in bruises head
to toe, drowned in a bone dry bathtub, and he
skated on that for years until her body had to
be exhumed to put his sorry we're in behind bars. Okay,
(01:14):
get this. Peterson was wheeled into the courtroom and wearing glasses,
trying to look pitiful, claiming he needs a psychological evaluation.
I could have told you that on day one, because
he's a perv, not because he has any mental illness.
(01:38):
Trust me on that this is in his bid to
overturn his conviction for murder one of third wife Kathleen Savio. Okay,
rewind what happened in that case and trust me, he's
sick all right, but it does not rise to mental illness.
(02:01):
A police officer that married and divorced three times, his
fourth wife now missing, seemingly leaving behind her home and
her children without a trace. That's odd, isn't it? Still
no resolution in the missing person report of Stacy Peterson?
(02:24):
With me right now, Drew Peterson's defense lawyer Joel Brosky,
Cold Case Research Institute director Cheryl McCollum, New York psychologist,
doctor Chloe Carmichael, and WSB reporter Robin Walynsky. Let's just
kick it off with Drew Peterson in his own words. Now,
(02:46):
Stacy Peterson goes missing. According to those close to her,
she desperately wanted a divorce and at the time she
knew his third wife, Kathleen Savio, was in ordered by
Drew Peterson. Nobody else knew that. Listen to what Drew
(03:07):
Peterson tells doctor Phil.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, there have been many allegations that have been made
against Drew regarding Stacy and allegation, accusation.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
And whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Now, you know, we don't know if Stacy made these claims,
but I have a graphic here with.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Some of them.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
First, Stacy's family says Stacey told Drew she wanted a
divorce shortly before she disappeared.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
No, she told me she wanted a divorce. And I
hate saying this, but the reality of it. She told
me she wanted to divorce once a month.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So you're saying it varied with her minstrel cycle.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Very much so, And I'm not trying to be disrespectful
a vain saying that that was a reality.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
There is an allegation or an accusation that Stacey told
a neighbor if anything happened to her it was not
an accident, that Drew had killed her. Do you think
that she actually said that to a neighbor.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I really have to question the credibility of the neighbor,
because Stacey and I still, even with her difficulties, we
still had a very romantic relationship. We still were together
a lot, We still spend time coddling that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So, but Drew, if you had a romantic relationship, if
you were still intimate and affectionate and together with one another,
how could she disappear? And you not dismantle the world
looking for her.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I don't know. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I think I've done all that I can do and
all I have the resources available to do.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
But that defies common sense. I mean, if you were
in love with this woman, were you in love with.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Her when she disappeared, Yes, very much. So are you
in love with her today?
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I try to be, but it's I'm having I have
a lot of anger issues about it now that she
took off.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Like she did.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
She also said that, and I believe it's the same neighbor.
You probably know better than I that you always called
and checked on Stacy, that you were very attentive and
in fact it got to the point of being controlling,
but that you were always calling to check up on her.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
We were always calling each other.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, So I don't think it was one way thing,
and I wasn't trying to be controlling when you have
a romantic relationship with someboda calling them all the time.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So it's also been alleged that Stacy told her sister
that she feared for her life. Do you believe she
said that to her sister?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Again, I don't know, And if she was trying to
set me up for some sort of divorce or anything.
They might have been a way to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
In that you did have a pattern of calling each
other all the time. Why did you not call her
the day she disappeared?
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I didn't, but she there was she wanted her space.
She wanted her space, So that day I gave her space.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Because there are those obviously say you called her because
you didn't call her because you knew she couldn't answer.
But you're saying you didn't call her because you were
given her space.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Correct crime Stories with Nancy Grace drew Peterson's bid to
overturn his conviction for murder one also through in to
the stew ineffective legal counsel. He also claims prosecutorial misconduct
(06:34):
occurred in the case. He's basically saying, look over here
at my defense attorney and the prosecutor. Don't look at
me and the two wives I've murdered. Yeah, don't look there,
look here. Okay, this guy is not mentally ill, and
if he has deteriorated behind bars as he thinks about
(06:56):
has nightmares about all the women he's murdered, that does
not mean he was insane at the time of the
two Excuse Me One murder. Listen to what Drew Peterson
tells doctor Phil.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Did you ever get physical with her? Did you ever
attack her? Did you ever have a physical fight.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
There was a physical confrontation where I cornered her in
the kitchen one time and she hit me in the
head with a frozen steak.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
But I didn't retaliate or anything.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Because her stepsister says that you threw Stacy down the stairs,
knocked her into the TV, and threw her across the room.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That never happened. This never happened, Never happened.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Why why are these people saying these things?
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I don't know unless they're trying to add some sort
of fuel to the fire. You know what your step
brother has said right that he says that he helped
you move a blue barrel that was warm to the touch.
He told friends that he thought after the fact that
he actually helped you move her body.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
That didn't happen. Was there a blue barrel?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
No, did he come over and help you do anything,
move anything, do anything?
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Never the day I was with him the day before
and I was attempting to get him a job at
a grocery store. He had just lost his job, and
he was so intoxicated or high end something that I
had to cancel the interview and we couldn't file through
with it.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So he's not a reliable guy. I would say, no, Well,
the phone.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Records show that you were near the Chicago Sanitary and
Ship Channel the day she went missing. Were you there?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yes, I was driving through that area. What were you
doing there?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I was looking for in a couple of spots I
thought that she might be I was looking for my car.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, that she was driving.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You just heard Drew Peterson talking to doctor Phil our friend.
Regarding a lot of points that are not lost on prosecutors.
My first point would be Cheryl McCollum, a director of
the Cole Case Research Institute. Every time I would try
somebody for murder, for anything, for that matter, the defense
attorneys would say, she's just mean because she's on a period.
(09:04):
I mean, you know, it doesn't matter what you're doing,
it's because you're on your period. But that that's always
what men claim.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Why is that cheers? What's interesting to me, though, every
time she's on her period, all she asks for is
the divorce. She's not crying, she just wants to get
the hell away from you, So back to me would
be a pattern that he would need to look at.
That it's not because of her period she wants away
from you.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
To Robin Wellinsky joining me, WSB investigative reporter Robin Wilensky
that the claims that she wanted a divorce are overwhelming,
but we also know that at the time she goes missing,
she had been boxing up Drew Peterson's possessions to kick
him out and stacking them up in the garage.
Speaker 7 (09:54):
Robin, Yeah, Nancy, she totally wanted out of this marriage.
He's got a very very long history of four wives,
all who had their period, all who really wanted away
from him. His first wife, Carol, was married six years.
She claimed he was a cheater. They got divorced, and
there was Vicki, who said that he was abusing her
(10:17):
and threatening her allegations of course, and she told police,
you know, after Stacy disappeared, that Peterson threatened to kill
her and make it look like an accident. And oh,
then there was Kathleen, who he was married to for
eleven years, who mysteriously dies in a dry bathtub. I
was there, by the way, the day they dug her
up at the cemetery, And then of course there's Stacy
(10:39):
who was only nineteen and Drew was what forty nine,
and she wanted far away from him, period or not.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
It broke my heart speaking to Vicki and her daughter
learning about life with Drew Peterson. But that's a whole
other can of worms. Doctor Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist,
joining me, founder of anxietytools dot com. Doctor Chloe, isn't
it true statistically, when women that have been abused try
(11:10):
to leave the relationship or get pregnant, that's the highest
incidence of their murders.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Yes, Nancy, of course it's absolutely true, because what that
does is it provokes anger on the part of the
person that they're attempting to leave, which is why I
actually think it's very interesting that this gentleman said that
he was actually very angry with her. He said that
he was angry because she left, which may have even
(11:39):
been what she was planning to do. But of course
we don't know that she left, and really neither does he,
and so it's very unusual for someone whose spouse is
missing to suddenly just say that they're angry with the person.
For leaving because anger puts more distance between us. When
(12:00):
you genuinely missed your spouse and didn't want them gone,
it's actually difficult to even connect with any feelings of anger,
even if they're appropriate. So the fact that he's jumping
to anger with her and the case of someone who
is at best Keith missing, I think is very unusual
and somewhat suspicious.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last days, convicted
killer Drew Peterson is back in a Will County courtroom
having himself rolled in in a wheelchair okay, wearing glasses
(12:45):
m okay, claiming he needs psychological evaluation. He may be
a sex addict, but that does not rise to a
mental illness. He may be a two time stone cold killer,
maybe more for all I know, but he is not
mentally ill. The only illness he has is in his underwear. Okay, now,
(13:11):
this is what happened with me? Right now? You know
his name very well, renowned Chicago defense attorney Joel Brodsky.
Let's just say this isn't our first time in the
boxing ring. Joel Brosky defending Drew Peterson at trial. His
longtime defender Joel Brodsky was Now hold a minute, I've
(13:33):
seen many a photo of Drew Peterson and for him
to say the only physical incident they ever had was
when she Stacey hit him in the head with a
frozen steak.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
How to do that?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Stand on a ladder he towers over her?
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Yeah, I mean he would.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
That was his position was.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
He never was physically violent with any of his wives,
and he would always his excuse always was that, well,
if I, as a police office sir, committed domestic battery,
I lose my job. So I would never do that.
But you know, Drew was a you know, trained, trained,
swat train army officer. You know, if he wanted to
(14:12):
resort to violence, he could you do it in a
way that wouldn't leave marks. He was an expert at that,
you know, from the all the training in the department
and the army that he had. You know, I I
know that there was with Kathy. I know that there
was evidence of some physical altercations.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Nothing you know, we are you sure know how to
put perfume on the pig? What do you mean by
physical altercations? With Kathleen's sophomore there was later found dead, drowned,
dead and dry bathtub. What do you mean physical altercation?
You mean he beat her up?
Speaker 8 (14:47):
No, they had a fight that was on actually was
on videotape. Uh, Stacy actually taped it.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
You know, Kathy was very you know, very Islands vivations.
I mean, she wouldn't back down from anything. So they
they went at it, but Drew was obviously so much
physically stronger. He pinned her to the ground and then
the police came and charged them both with battery kind
of cross charges. But you know there was no evidence
(15:16):
of him ever by breaking bones or or causing bloody
noses or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay, well what woa wait? Hold on, just Cheryl McCollum,
have I lost my mind? I mean, Cheryl, you know
that for nine years I volunteered at the Battered Women's
Center at night when I was prosecuting. Do you hear
Joel Brodsky still defending Drew Peterson.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
He says, well, there was never a broken bone, but
oh yeah, he pinned her to the ground. That was
caught on video. Hello, it'll be a cold ay in
h eble al. My husband pins me to the ground
and the police are not called. Okay, that ain't gonna happen, Cheryl,
what happened? I feel like I went down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Here's the deal. The devil takes many forms, and the
reality is a nineteen year old girl was married to
a forty nine year old man, yew and that was
nothing about but control. And he abused his money with her,
his emotions with her, his sex with her, his physical
(16:17):
being with her. There's no doubt that every one of
his four wives was abused in some way. Drew was
not about to let anybody get his money. Well, they
weren't no touch his retirement.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Drewk Okay Jumpan Joel.
Speaker 8 (16:33):
Drew was very controlling, very control. I mean, there's no
question he was very controlling of all his wives. They
all said that he would monitor them electronically follow them.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
All right, you mean the GPS tracker. I've got what
my husband is wrong? Just kidding, Okay, that's not true.
Why did I say that, Jewel Broski, what is the
defense for Drew Peterson? His wife Stacey just goes missing.
And another thing that he said we just heard him
tell doctor Phil was the brother in law was a drinker.
(17:04):
He was this, he was that that didn't happen. He
didn't help him get rid of Stacy's body in a
blue cooler. But they were caught on video together. Yeah,
that night driving through a Starbucks. So the night Stacy
goes missing. So how can he say they weren't together.
I've watched the video.
Speaker 8 (17:23):
Yeah, the video. I don't think that was before he
gave that interview, before he charges had been brought, so
he had never seen the video at that point. He
didn't know they had that of it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Joel, you know what you should consider professional dancing because
you just danced around. I'm gonna call it dancing with
the stars. You need to be there, buddy, Joel, I
didn't ask you. Did the Starbucks video come to light
after his statement to doctor Phil If you're just saying, yeah,
he lied because he didn't know about the video, that's
what you're saying.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
I mean he obviously lied because he didn't know he
was he had been caught. You know, if you knew
about the video, he would have altered the story in
some way.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I'm sure made up a different line. Julie, how do
you stand yourself? Help me out.
Speaker 8 (18:07):
I'm trying not to use such a direct language, but yeah,
I'm sure he wouldn't have said that if you knew
that there was evidence of the contrary. But you know,
Drew was building, was, you know, making this trying to
tell a consistent story about what happened to Stacy, to
keep with that his position that she ran away. That
was his story from day one, that she ran off
(18:28):
with some other guys.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That's true, Joel. He's never wavered in his story. Robin
Wilenski wsb. Let's start at the beginning. We know she
married him when she's nineteen, he's forty something. What happened
around the time of Stacy's disappearance as right now today
she has never been seen again. The theory of Drew
(18:52):
Peterson and his lawyer with us right now, high profile
lawyer out of Chicago, Joel Broski, is that she took
off to be with her boyfriend friend. So what happened?
Tell me the events around her disappearance, Roberts.
Speaker 7 (19:04):
She was very angry, she wanted out of the marriage.
And you know, the one thing we have not mentioned
so far, Nancy, is the fact that that she was
so Stacey was super fetiitue and she could have fit
in that barrel very easily. And there were reports at
the time when I was out in Bowling Brooks that
he had access to a small plane, and there was
(19:25):
one theory that the bowling Brook Police and detectives were
working on at the time that he had flown the
plane and that he could have dropped the barrel into
a forest area. And there were many searches at the
time looking for that barrel. It had never been found
in the forest, never been found in any body of water.
But she clearly Nancy could have fit in that barrel.
(19:45):
They had a very tumultuous relationship. She wanted out and
the next thing you know, she disappeared.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
She disappeared and has never been seen again. FYI, right now,
we know that money has run dry, and Stacy's sister
has actually launched an effort to raise money on a
GoFundMe site to continue the search for Stacy Peterson's body.
Her sister, also, like me, believes that Stacy is dead.
(20:14):
Go to go fund me and look for help me
bring Stacy Peterson home. Help me bring Stacy Peterson home
at go fund me. Now what we do know now
Joel Broskey, his defense lawyer, is not going to admit
to this former okay, is that his brother in law,
(20:34):
apparent from one of his other marriages, showed up, was
called over to Peterson's home that night and helped him
carry a very heavy blue cooler out that was warm
to the touch. And to this day that brother in law,
who later tried to commit suicide, says he thinks he
unwillingly helped dispose of Stacy's body. Her disappearance and or
(20:59):
death deal unresolved, drew Peterson's bid to overturn his conviction
from murder. One. In his court filing claims, Peterson is
quote incapable of relaying his allegations of constitutional deprivations, probably
because there were no constitutional deprivations. That is why he
(21:23):
is incapable of relaying them. Oh, he can't explain them
quote to his legal team in a manner that would
allow them to quote adequately and ethically submit claims, because
there are no claims. Have you thought of that now?
According to this appeal, the defense attorney believes a former
(21:43):
judge who found no doubt as to Peterson's mental fitness
was quote clearly in error. Right, I guess you want
the judge to believe you and not his or her
lying eyes now the lawyers are spending our tax money,
(22:04):
by the way, to seek a quote more specialized psychological
expert to evaluate Peterson. Okay, good luck with that. I
just want to remind you his wife, Stacy Peterson, who
was just twenty three at the time she vanished, has
never been found and he hasn't been tried for that.
(22:24):
You know, it just never ends with this guy. We
wait as justice unfalse. Good night friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday Night and
it is special, a coup that murders at least two wives, wow,
and gets away with it for years and years and years.
(00:24):
Of course, I'm talking about the sleeves bag Drew Peterson.
In the last weeks an update in the Drew Peterson case.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. Guys, you do know
Stacy Peterson, wife number four's body has never been found.
(00:49):
He was finally convicted in the murder of his third wife,
Kathleen Savio. She was found dead, covered in bruises head
to toe, drowned in a bone dry bathtub, and he
skated on that for years until her body had to
be exhumed to put his sorry we're in behind bars. Okay,
(01:14):
get this. Peterson was wheeled into the courtroom and wearing glasses,
trying to look pitiful, claiming he needs a psychological evaluation.
I could have told you that on day one, because
he's a perv, not because he has any mental illness.
(01:38):
Trust me on that this is in his bid to
overturn his conviction for murder one of third wife Kathleen Savio. Okay,
rewind what happened in that case and trust me, he's
sick all right, but it does not rise to mental illness.
(02:01):
A police officer that married and divorced three times, his
fourth wife now missing, seemingly leaving behind her home and
her children without a trace. That's odd, isn't it? Still
no resolution in the missing person report of Stacy Peterson?
(02:24):
With me right now, Drew Peterson's defense lawyer Joel Brosky,
Cold Case Research Institute director Cheryl McCollum, New York psychologist,
doctor Chloe Carmichael, and WSB reporter Robin Walynsky. Let's just
kick it off with Drew Peterson in his own words. Now,
(02:46):
Stacy Peterson goes missing. According to those close to her,
she desperately wanted a divorce and at the time she
knew his third wife, Kathleen Savio, was in ordered by
Drew Peterson. Nobody else knew that. Listen to what Drew
(03:07):
Peterson tells doctor Phil.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, there have been many allegations that have been made
against Drew regarding Stacy and allegation, accusation.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
And whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Now, you know, we don't know if Stacy made these claims,
but I have a graphic here with.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Some of them.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
First, Stacy's family says Stacey told Drew she wanted a
divorce shortly before she disappeared.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Is that true?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
No, she told me she wanted a divorce. And I
hate saying this, but the reality of it. She told
me she wanted to divorce once a month.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So you're saying it varied with her minstrel cycle.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Very much so, And I'm not trying to be disrespectful
a vain saying that that was a reality.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
There is an allegation or an accusation that Stacey told
a neighbor if anything happened to her it was not
an accident, that Drew had killed her. Do you think
that she actually said that to a neighbor.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
I really have to question the credibility of the neighbor,
because Stacey and I still, even with her difficulties, we
still had a very romantic relationship. We still were together
a lot, We still spend time coddling that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So, but Drew, if you had a romantic relationship, if
you were still intimate and affectionate and together with one another,
how could she disappear? And you not dismantle the world
looking for her.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I don't know. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
I think I've done all that I can do and
all I have the resources available to do.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
But that defies common sense. I mean, if you were
in love with this woman, were you in love with.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Her when she disappeared, Yes, very much. So are you
in love with her today?
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I try to be, but it's I'm having I have
a lot of anger issues about it now that she
took off.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Like she did.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
She also said that, and I believe it's the same neighbor.
You probably know better than I that you always called
and checked on Stacy, that you were very attentive and
in fact it got to the point of being controlling,
but that you were always calling to check up on her.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
We were always calling each other.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, So I don't think it was one way thing,
and I wasn't trying to be controlling when you have
a romantic relationship with someboda calling them all the time.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So it's also been alleged that Stacy told her sister
that she feared for her life. Do you believe she
said that to her sister?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Again, I don't know, And if she was trying to
set me up for some sort of divorce or anything.
They might have been a way to do it.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
In that you did have a pattern of calling each
other all the time. Why did you not call her
the day she disappeared?
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I didn't, but she there was she wanted her space.
She wanted her space, So that day I gave her space.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Because there are those obviously say you called her because
you didn't call her because you knew she couldn't answer.
But you're saying you didn't call her because you were
given her space.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Correct crime Stories with Nancy Grace drew Peterson's bid to
overturn his conviction for murder one also through in to
the stew ineffective legal counsel. He also claims prosecutorial misconduct
(06:34):
occurred in the case. He's basically saying, look over here
at my defense attorney and the prosecutor. Don't look at
me and the two wives I've murdered. Yeah, don't look there,
look here. Okay, this guy is not mentally ill, and
if he has deteriorated behind bars as he thinks about
(06:56):
has nightmares about all the women he's murdered, that does
not mean he was insane at the time of the
two Excuse Me One murder. Listen to what Drew Peterson
tells doctor Phil.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Did you ever get physical with her? Did you ever
attack her? Did you ever have a physical fight.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
There was a physical confrontation where I cornered her in
the kitchen one time and she hit me in the
head with a frozen steak.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
But I didn't retaliate or anything.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Because her stepsister says that you threw Stacy down the stairs,
knocked her into the TV, and threw her across the room.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That never happened. This never happened, Never happened.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Why why are these people saying these things?
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I don't know unless they're trying to add some sort
of fuel to the fire. You know what your step
brother has said right that he says that he helped
you move a blue barrel that was warm to the touch.
He told friends that he thought after the fact that
he actually helped you move her body.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
That didn't happen. Was there a blue barrel?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
No, did he come over and help you do anything,
move anything, do anything?
Speaker 4 (08:04):
Never the day I was with him the day before
and I was attempting to get him a job at
a grocery store. He had just lost his job, and
he was so intoxicated or high end something that I
had to cancel the interview and we couldn't file through
with it.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So he's not a reliable guy. I would say, no, Well,
the phone.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Records show that you were near the Chicago Sanitary and
Ship Channel the day she went missing. Were you there?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yes, I was driving through that area. What were you
doing there?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
I was looking for in a couple of spots I
thought that she might be I was looking for my car.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, that she was driving.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You just heard Drew Peterson talking to doctor Phil our friend.
Regarding a lot of points that are not lost on prosecutors.
My first point would be Cheryl McCollum, a director of
the Cole Case Research Institute. Every time I would try
somebody for murder, for anything, for that matter, the defense
attorneys would say, she's just mean because she's on a period.
(09:04):
I mean, you know, it doesn't matter what you're doing,
it's because you're on your period. But that that's always
what men claim.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Why is that cheers? What's interesting to me, though, every
time she's on her period, all she asks for is
the divorce. She's not crying, she just wants to get
the hell away from you, So back to me would
be a pattern that he would need to look at.
That it's not because of her period she wants away
from you.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
To Robin Wellinsky joining me, WSB investigative reporter Robin Wilensky
that the claims that she wanted a divorce are overwhelming,
but we also know that at the time she goes missing,
she had been boxing up Drew Peterson's possessions to kick
him out and stacking them up in the garage.
Speaker 7 (09:54):
Robin, Yeah, Nancy, she totally wanted out of this marriage.
He's got a very very long history of four wives,
all who had their period, all who really wanted away
from him. His first wife, Carol, was married six years.
She claimed he was a cheater. They got divorced, and
there was Vicki, who said that he was abusing her
(10:17):
and threatening her allegations of course, and she told police,
you know, after Stacy disappeared, that Peterson threatened to kill
her and make it look like an accident. And oh,
then there was Kathleen, who he was married to for
eleven years, who mysteriously dies in a dry bathtub. I
was there, by the way, the day they dug her
up at the cemetery, And then of course there's Stacy
(10:39):
who was only nineteen and Drew was what forty nine,
and she wanted far away from him, period or not.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
It broke my heart speaking to Vicki and her daughter
learning about life with Drew Peterson. But that's a whole
other can of worms. Doctor Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist,
joining me, founder of anxietytools dot com. Doctor Chloe, isn't
it true statistically, when women that have been abused try
(11:10):
to leave the relationship or get pregnant, that's the highest
incidence of their murders.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Yes, Nancy, of course it's absolutely true, because what that
does is it provokes anger on the part of the
person that they're attempting to leave, which is why I
actually think it's very interesting that this gentleman said that
he was actually very angry with her. He said that
he was angry because she left, which may have even
(11:39):
been what she was planning to do. But of course
we don't know that she left, and really neither does he,
and so it's very unusual for someone whose spouse is
missing to suddenly just say that they're angry with the person.
For leaving because anger puts more distance between us. When
(12:00):
you genuinely missed your spouse and didn't want them gone,
it's actually difficult to even connect with any feelings of anger,
even if they're appropriate. So the fact that he's jumping
to anger with her and the case of someone who
is at best Keith missing, I think is very unusual
and somewhat suspicious.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last days, convicted
killer Drew Peterson is back in a Will County courtroom
having himself rolled in in a wheelchair okay, wearing glasses
(12:45):
m okay, claiming he needs psychological evaluation. He may be
a sex addict, but that does not rise to a
mental illness. He may be a two time stone cold killer,
maybe more for all I know, but he is not
mentally ill. The only illness he has is in his underwear. Okay, now,
(13:11):
this is what happened with me? Right now? You know
his name very well, renowned Chicago defense attorney Joel Brodsky.
Let's just say this isn't our first time in the
boxing ring. Joel Brosky defending Drew Peterson at trial. His
longtime defender Joel Brodsky was Now hold a minute, I've
(13:33):
seen many a photo of Drew Peterson and for him
to say the only physical incident they ever had was
when she Stacey hit him in the head with a
frozen steak.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
How to do that?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Stand on a ladder he towers over her?
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Yeah, I mean he would.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
That was his position was.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
He never was physically violent with any of his wives,
and he would always his excuse always was that, well,
if I, as a police office sir, committed domestic battery,
I lose my job. So I would never do that.
But you know, Drew was a you know, trained, trained,
swat train army officer. You know, if he wanted to
(14:12):
resort to violence, he could you do it in a
way that wouldn't leave marks. He was an expert at that,
you know, from the all the training in the department
and the army that he had. You know, I I
know that there was with Kathy. I know that there
was evidence of some physical altercations.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Nothing you know, we are you sure know how to
put perfume on the pig? What do you mean by
physical altercations? With Kathleen's sophomore there was later found dead, drowned,
dead and dry bathtub. What do you mean physical altercation?
You mean he beat her up?
Speaker 8 (14:47):
No, they had a fight that was on actually was
on videotape. Uh, Stacy actually taped it.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (14:55):
You know, Kathy was very you know, very Islands vivations.
I mean, she wouldn't back down from anything. So they
they went at it, but Drew was obviously so much
physically stronger. He pinned her to the ground and then
the police came and charged them both with battery kind
of cross charges. But you know there was no evidence
(15:16):
of him ever by breaking bones or or causing bloody
noses or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay, well what woa wait? Hold on, just Cheryl McCollum,
have I lost my mind? I mean, Cheryl, you know
that for nine years I volunteered at the Battered Women's
Center at night when I was prosecuting. Do you hear
Joel Brodsky still defending Drew Peterson.
Speaker 6 (15:37):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
He says, well, there was never a broken bone, but
oh yeah, he pinned her to the ground. That was
caught on video. Hello, it'll be a cold ay in
h eble al. My husband pins me to the ground
and the police are not called. Okay, that ain't gonna happen, Cheryl,
what happened? I feel like I went down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
Here's the deal. The devil takes many forms, and the
reality is a nineteen year old girl was married to
a forty nine year old man, yew and that was
nothing about but control. And he abused his money with her,
his emotions with her, his sex with her, his physical
(16:17):
being with her. There's no doubt that every one of
his four wives was abused in some way. Drew was
not about to let anybody get his money. Well, they
weren't no touch his retirement.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Drewk Okay Jumpan Joel.
Speaker 8 (16:33):
Drew was very controlling, very control. I mean, there's no
question he was very controlling of all his wives. They
all said that he would monitor them electronically follow them.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
All right, you mean the GPS tracker. I've got what
my husband is wrong? Just kidding, Okay, that's not true.
Why did I say that, Jewel Broski, what is the
defense for Drew Peterson? His wife Stacey just goes missing.
And another thing that he said we just heard him
tell doctor Phil was the brother in law was a drinker.
(17:04):
He was this, he was that that didn't happen. He
didn't help him get rid of Stacy's body in a
blue cooler. But they were caught on video together. Yeah,
that night driving through a Starbucks. So the night Stacy
goes missing. So how can he say they weren't together.
I've watched the video.
Speaker 8 (17:23):
Yeah, the video. I don't think that was before he
gave that interview, before he charges had been brought, so
he had never seen the video at that point. He
didn't know they had that of it.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Joel, you know what you should consider professional dancing because
you just danced around. I'm gonna call it dancing with
the stars. You need to be there, buddy, Joel, I
didn't ask you. Did the Starbucks video come to light
after his statement to doctor Phil If you're just saying, yeah,
he lied because he didn't know about the video, that's
what you're saying.
Speaker 8 (17:54):
I mean he obviously lied because he didn't know he
was he had been caught. You know, if you knew
about the video, he would have altered the story in
some way.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I'm sure made up a different line. Julie, how do
you stand yourself? Help me out.
Speaker 8 (18:07):
I'm trying not to use such a direct language, but yeah,
I'm sure he wouldn't have said that if you knew
that there was evidence of the contrary. But you know,
Drew was building, was, you know, making this trying to
tell a consistent story about what happened to Stacy, to
keep with that his position that she ran away. That
was his story from day one, that she ran off
(18:28):
with some other guys.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That's true, Joel. He's never wavered in his story. Robin
Wilenski wsb. Let's start at the beginning. We know she
married him when she's nineteen, he's forty something. What happened
around the time of Stacy's disappearance as right now today
she has never been seen again. The theory of Drew
(18:52):
Peterson and his lawyer with us right now, high profile
lawyer out of Chicago, Joel Broski, is that she took
off to be with her boyfriend friend. So what happened?
Tell me the events around her disappearance, Roberts.
Speaker 7 (19:04):
She was very angry, she wanted out of the marriage.
And you know, the one thing we have not mentioned
so far, Nancy, is the fact that that she was
so Stacey was super fetiitue and she could have fit
in that barrel very easily. And there were reports at
the time when I was out in Bowling Brooks that
he had access to a small plane, and there was
(19:25):
one theory that the bowling Brook Police and detectives were
working on at the time that he had flown the
plane and that he could have dropped the barrel into
a forest area. And there were many searches at the
time looking for that barrel. It had never been found
in the forest, never been found in any body of water.
But she clearly Nancy could have fit in that barrel.
(19:45):
They had a very tumultuous relationship. She wanted out and
the next thing you know, she disappeared.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
She disappeared and has never been seen again. FYI, right now,
we know that money has run dry, and Stacy's sister
has actually launched an effort to raise money on a
GoFundMe site to continue the search for Stacy Peterson's body.
Her sister, also, like me, believes that Stacy is dead.
(20:14):
Go to go fund me and look for help me
bring Stacy Peterson home. Help me bring Stacy Peterson home
at go fund me. Now what we do know now
Joel Broskey, his defense lawyer, is not going to admit
to this former okay, is that his brother in law,
(20:34):
apparent from one of his other marriages, showed up, was
called over to Peterson's home that night and helped him
carry a very heavy blue cooler out that was warm
to the touch. And to this day that brother in law,
who later tried to commit suicide, says he thinks he
unwillingly helped dispose of Stacy's body. Her disappearance and or
(20:59):
death deal unresolved, drew Peterson's bid to overturn his conviction
from murder. One. In his court filing claims, Peterson is
quote incapable of relaying his allegations of constitutional deprivations, probably
because there were no constitutional deprivations. That is why he
(21:23):
is incapable of relaying them. Oh, he can't explain them
quote to his legal team in a manner that would
allow them to quote adequately and ethically submit claims, because
there are no claims. Have you thought of that now?
According to this appeal, the defense attorney believes a former
(21:43):
judge who found no doubt as to Peterson's mental fitness
was quote clearly in error. Right, I guess you want
the judge to believe you and not his or her
lying eyes now the lawyers are spending our tax money,
(22:04):
by the way, to seek a quote more specialized psychological
expert to evaluate Peterson. Okay, good luck with that. I
just want to remind you his wife, Stacy Peterson, who
was just twenty three at the time she vanished, has
never been found and he hasn't been tried for that.
(22:24):
You know, it just never ends with this guy. We
wait as justice unfalse. Good night friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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