November 30, 2024 • 39 mins
Former "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett is convicted of staging a hate crime attack against himself on a cold Chicago night. Smollett was convicted on five disorderly conduct count and sentenced to 150 days. In reality, he spent only six days behind bars while maintaining his innocence. Now the Illinois Supreme Court has overturned Smollett's conviction. The court did not consider where the actor committed the crime, only that his constitutional rights were violated when he was prosecuted again after the original charges were dropped.
The state's highest court sided has ordered the case against Smollett be dismissed.
Joining Nancy Grace today: Forensics expert Karen Smith, Los Angeles psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall and Atlanta criminal lawyer Darryl Cohen.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Jesse Smollett the race attack hoax. Sir, well,
we thought his case was overright. The former Empire star
was convicted for orchestrating a race attack hoax, stirring up much,
(00:28):
much anger and dissension and hurt feelings. Well, guess what
in the last hours. I hope you're sitting down. You
may need to lay down for this one. The Illinois
Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed Jesse Smollett's conviction.
That's right, his twenty twenty one conviction has been overturned.
(00:54):
Why the Illinois Supreme Court says his second prosecutor after
charges were initially dropped was the reason for the reversal.
The court said, today we resolve a question about the
(01:15):
state's responsibility to honor agreements it makes with defendants. Specifically,
we address whether a dismissal of a case by an
all pross that's Latin for refusing to prosecute allows the
state to bring a second prosecution when the first dismissal
(01:38):
was part of an agreement with the defendant and the
defendant performs his part of the plea bargain. In other words,
the state oh this is such a bad decision by
the state. The state offered Smilett a deal, and their
part of the deal was they would all prosper drop
(02:00):
his case. Well, after that deal was struck, Smollett got
new charges and was convicted of falsely reporting a hate
crime against him. Smolett claimed he was hated because he
is black and gay. Okay, it turns out he arranged
(02:23):
the whole attack to try to get pr and to
pay raise. He was already bringing down tens of thousands
of dollars per episode on Empire. Greedy, Greedy Liar. Uh.
He was found guilty of five of six disorderly conduct charges.
(02:43):
The grand jury had returned a six count indictment against
him before that. He was sentenced to one hundred and
fifty days in jail, thirty months of probation, ordered to
pay about one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in restitution.
All in, he served six days of the sentence. Uh, please,
(03:04):
now is reversed. Okay, what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
You know, it's two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
You're going to subway sub Speria is.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Open twenty four hours.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Like, people kill me when they say things like that,
because It's like subway is open twenty four hours for
a reason, so that when you're hungry at night and
you ain't got no food, you go to subway the
camera facing north. How is that my issue? It feels
like if I had said it was a Muslim or.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
A Mexican.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Or someone black, I feel like the doubters would have
supported me a lot, much more, a lot more. And
that says a lot about the place that we are
in our country right now, the.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people that.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Are trying to separate us, and.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
It's just not okay. It's just not okay.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And for all of the people, the next time that
you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact
that it happened, and you say to them, well, why
are you waiting until now? Just remember that mine was
reported right away and look what has happened.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smollette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males, that it changed
at some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is
(04:41):
how the story started. That also has changed to am
in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.
According to Jesse Simolette, everyone knows him big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(05:02):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,
they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(05:24):
the truth, will the Empire star go to jail for
pulling a hoax? When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
(05:48):
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
all star panel for forensics, Xi burnand boy do we
need her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction.
Renowned criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor joining me from Atlanta,
(06:10):
joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall and joining
me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.
Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm
hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the
wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go
back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't feel like
(06:33):
getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.
But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Go.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Well, it does appear that Jossy Samallet had arrived to
the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
was a matter of him waking up in the middle
of that and going out to the freezing cold in
the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and
he's he tells police that he's on his way home
with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
We wait, wha wait.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is in Chicago, correct,
that's right, doctor Bethany. He must have been very hungry,
very hungry.
Speaker 7 (07:09):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
So if it's.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
Twenty degrees out, regular temperature the wind starts blowing forty
fifty degree below windschill. I did my undergraduate work there.
Nobody goes out at two.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.
(07:51):
And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge
or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,
he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.
See I start right there. That's where I start the story.
And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
I just think that's Craig cray.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Well.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was you know, busted on child porn. I guess
it was their spokesperson. But long story, short, Darryl Cohen.
I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see from all of the evidence that's been
presented to me, this guy is looking for a more
publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to
get it.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well, he's getting it, all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true, because the official,
the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
treated as a victim because he is a victim.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Phone.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
When did you, because as you said, it was an
accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
They asked for my phone.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
They wanted me to give my phone to the tech
for three to four hours.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Why because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my
friend's numbers, my private emails, my private voice memos.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I don't know what that's going to be to hand
over my phone for.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
put out there.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Roberts aid, ABC's GMA,
she's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
Empire star. Everybody loves Empire, The Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
(10:26):
a sandwich and is attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says, he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted the phone, to confirm that he
(10:49):
called his manager and not nine to one one. They
are being clear why they want the phone, but they
want the phone. Karen Smith joining me for Insics Expert
out of Florida. Why do they want Why do they
want Jesse Smollette's phone?
Speaker 9 (11:03):
Listen when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators.
The best way now in the world of social media
and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
and Twitter and all of those things, and text messages
especially Listen, if nothing happened, and I understand, you know,
(11:24):
the privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and
whatever that he's not want released.
Speaker 10 (11:28):
But the police they're not going to go into that.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
That's not their interest.
Speaker 9 (11:32):
Their interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett or
Smollette and these other alleged perpetrators, if there was any,
if there was any, the phone call that he made
to his manager, what time did he make it, where
did he make it from. All of those questions have
to be answered, and they have to have the device.
They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not
(11:54):
how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecute
or felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted.
I just missed him, Darryl at the time when we
were when I first started prosecuting We did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(12:18):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(12:40):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
rope tied around your neck out on the street, you
had your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(13:03):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Darryl, Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with
finding out why he would call his manager. So the
last time I checked, was not a law enforcement person,
was not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the
police any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,
whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief. Whatever we
(13:26):
may be, we are going to call the police if
something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem
with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
work right now. He's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You probably stand up all night.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Law.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
I thank you coming up with that.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay, you know what,
I'm going to just pass over that one. You know
it's a big deal to me, Darryl, and I know
you're a famous defense attorney now, but in my mind,
you'll always be an in credible felony prosecutor because you
could get a jury eating out of your hand. You're
(14:05):
always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts.
You knew it all when you went in front of
a jury. And in this case, when you have a
victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem.
I don't care who he is. I don't care who
he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
(14:27):
But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
a problem with me. What's your problem?
Speaker 5 (14:34):
There's a problem with me, as well, I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,
it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
Really and you well, because.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
He's a famous things TV star. So here here's this
is another wrinkle in this. To Ellenklauren Crimeline dot com.
Hold On, I'm gonna write this down. Here's the thing. So,
if they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they
were targeting him and this was a hate crime, how
(15:18):
do they know to be outside the subway at two
am with bleach and rope? Or are they just hanging
around to get a sandwich and they happen to have
bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse Smolette,
e K, were they casing out his apartment? Why were
(15:40):
they there at two am? And I haven't even touched
on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work
out in his apartment building gym, that know him, that
have been extras on the set of Empire, or at
least one of them has that have been questioned and
(16:02):
released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to
do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to
get to the theory. So the perps were what waiting
outside the subway samwich shop for him? I mean, what's
the theory here? How did they know he was going
to be getting a sandwich at two am if he
(16:22):
was the one targeted for a hate crime?
Speaker 6 (16:25):
Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
has an an Instagram account and he's a very active
social media user, and we learned that he had been
in New York during the previous days and he was
on He.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Had slown back to Chicago that night, but his flight
was the lead and he came in much later than expected,
and he posted a couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Account talking about how his flight was delayed. So someone
who had to have had a little bit of information
about what was going on with him that day. If
they wanted to track his movements, they could to a
certain degree through his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Okay, let me ask you this regarding Jesse Smilette. Now
that may make it make more sense that he was
out at two am? Was he was his flight so delayed?
He was just getting home from the airport at say
one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing
of that? Because that makes although the Chicago airport is
(17:30):
full of food, but I don't know if it would
be open the food stands would be opened that late
at night. So if he gets off a plane from
New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his
apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And
there is a theory out there that that is how
he communicated to set up the attack through posting Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
(17:55):
that these two brothers could actually see his movement by
looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, ek, do we
know what time he got in from his flight?
Speaker 6 (18:05):
You don't know exactly what time he landed or got
back to his apartment, but it does We don't have
a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, but
it does seem as though it's likely that he did
stop off at his apartment's.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
First Crime Stories with Nancy Grace by Nancy Grace and
this is Crime Stories. Race attack faker Jesse Smilette wasn't
(18:39):
happy at the tens of thousands of dollars he was
raking in per episode as a big star on the
series Empire. Oh No, he wanted more, and to get more,
he tried to create a pr hurricane by arranging a
race attack on himself, making it appeer as though he
(19:04):
had been singled out and attacked because he was black
and gay. He staged the whole thing. In the last days,
the Illinois Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed the conviction.
I will never forget these facts.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth, is just the truth, because everybody has their
own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
(19:43):
young black children, to know how strong that they are,
to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolett bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the motions.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,
I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken sometimes maybe too outspoken,
but it's who I am, you know, so I get
(20:27):
the idea of pissing people off, that you're gonna rub
people the wrong way.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
threatening language, at least with powdery substance likely tailanol. Do
you think there's a link between the letter and the
attack and you did mention it to the police right
away out of the letter?
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick
figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,
with the words that said small edge, you will die black.
There was no address, but the return address it in
big red, you know, like caps maga. Did I make
that up too?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with
Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that
the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed
the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video
that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse
(21:30):
Smollette have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack.
Threatening letters.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it could
be changed direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's
two things about the letter that are coming up more
(22:09):
recently in the discussion around this case. One of those
is that some unidentified sources who have access to the
set and may even work.
Speaker 10 (22:18):
With Jesse, have told CBS News.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
That he was unhappy about the response to the letter
and the threat that he got, that he felt that
there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he
was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up
this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.
Speaker 10 (22:41):
The other thing that we're learning, and.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
Again these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified.
Speaker 10 (22:47):
Sources you are talking to news outlets.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
But we're learning that the letter was made out of
and you can see it in the photos.
Speaker 10 (22:54):
The letter was written sort of like.
Speaker 6 (22:55):
A ransom type of letter, with cutout letters from a.
Speaker 10 (22:59):
Magazine, and we're.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
Hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of
these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved
in this attack.
Speaker 10 (23:09):
They took away a magazine.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall. Are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christie and Erkil Poirot, Like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(23:32):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
I can tell you this. Remember the runaway Bride when
(23:53):
she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
and do community service out in the pub. Look for
I forgot how long other people have done jail time,
hard jail time for bringing police in on a hoax
of an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really
happening at the time of a hoax, and instead of
(24:16):
dealing with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands
and thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve
a fake call, and this one is a whopper. Now,
what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall the studio, the
Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told, but
(24:37):
according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction to
the letters. Does that mean what they didn't get enough attention?
What does that mean to you, Doctor Bethany?
Speaker 7 (24:45):
In forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained to
do with crime victims is to find out if they're
doing something called lingering. Lingering is when you make up
medical symptoms or you exaggerate metal symptoms for some external reward.
It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent of criminal cases,
(25:08):
lingering is involved in some way, twenty percent of PI cases,
as you can imagine malingering, thirty percent of disability cases.
The sicker I am, the more I'm going to get
some kind of reward or attention or I'm going to
get out of some consequence, like you're not going to
send me to jail, I'm not going to have to
go to the military. So what's so interesting to me
(25:30):
about this story is the exaggerate two aspects. The exaggerated
nature of his symptoms. He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach
on his clothing, the rope around his neck. Wouldn't you
pull a rope off? Now he's sitting there, you know,
with the clear sign that he's been accosted. He talks
about being black, gay, LGBTQ, anything that could paint him
(25:53):
in a sympathetic light. He keeps putting out there. The
second aspect is the fuzzy nature of the timeline. When
somebody malingers, they usually obstruct the investigation process. They do
not want the investigators to know clearly what happens.
Speaker 10 (26:09):
So if I have a.
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Patient and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall,
I was, I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me.
I want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,
what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I
just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very fuzzy detail.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
So is it true? Ek ellencalorin crime online dot Com
investigative reporter that smole Ed had been in New York
to audition for a role in the play that is
very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we
know about the play for which he was auditioning.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
He was at a reading.
Speaker 10 (26:49):
Actually it wasn't an audition.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
I believe he's already.
Speaker 10 (26:51):
Part of the cast.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
But that's what he was doing in New York. He
was flying back to He was flying back to Chicago
from New York, and he was in New York because
he was doing a re of the script of this play.
And the character in the play is.
Speaker 10 (27:05):
A person of color.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in
the cave in the case of the fictional character.
Speaker 10 (27:11):
But he is someone who the.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
Character is someone who has been the victim of hate
crimes that, according to the reports that we're reading the
have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly committed
against him. Just that the within hours of him arriving
back to Chicago after.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
The same wording the same slurs, awful slurs. I'm learning
also Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in
felony court that he Smelette did not call police. It
was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack,
according to the New York Times, and I think that
was his manager. He did not call police, and when
(27:53):
cops got to his place, he still was wearing the
rope around his neck.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
Help me. I can't help you, Nancy, because it sounds
to me like a setup. Did you also pay attention
to his voice. This is a guy that's reading a script.
This is not someone who's upset. This is not someone
who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not going to
be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail. Add
(28:21):
the fact that he's not giving his phone to the
police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all he
can do is say, oh my gosh, I was attacked
and this is terrible. But he has a noose around
his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy
who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on
(28:44):
television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not
the same. Some are, some are not. This guy is
reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,
he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, But
what he did I didn't see is that he's not
as bright as he believes himself to be. So he's
(29:05):
not shakesleat.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers
Ola and Abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told
detectives their.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
Role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on actor
Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smolette
paid the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
In attacks, Smolette reported to police saying two men slinging
racial and homophobic slurs, dousing him in bleach and placing
a rope around his neck. The Osindaros were arrested and
(29:37):
later released by Chicago police. Simultaneously, the FBI is looking
into a threatening letter Smolette received just days before the
reported attack. The words pieced together by magazines and a
drawing depicting a rope around a stick figure's neck. Days later,
Smollette said that's what happened to him during the reported attack.
During a raid of the brother's home last week, only
(29:59):
cba to his cameras were allowed inside. Among the items,
investigators walked away with a magazine, a piece of paper,
along with a writing sample, and a wallet with stamps.
Multiple sources say Smollette was upset the threatening letter didn't
receive a bigger reaction. That's when he orchestrated the attack
with the brothers. The rope used bought by at least
(30:21):
one of the brothers, purchased at the direction of Smollette.
Sources say the brothers are friends with Smolett Olach playing
an extra on Empire. Last week, in a televised interview,
Smollette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,
so I punched his ass back.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 11 (30:44):
The brothers, who were first seen in grainy surveillance video,
now coming into focus speaking exclusively with me over the phone,
saying we're not racist, we're not homophobic, and we are
not anti Trump. We were born and raised in Chicago,
and our Americans citizens.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
You are hearing our friend at CBA Chicago reporter Charlie
Damar reporting about what Chicago police took when they rated
the brothers home, claiming that Smollette was upset that his
threatening letters did not get the attention he had assumed
that they would. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Believe it
(31:32):
or not, Jesse Smollette, the race attack faker has gotten
his conviction reversed what happened that night. People that make
false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually
land behind bars if they're regular mortals like all of us.
(31:55):
If your Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. Jesse Smollette,
superstar on the cast of Empire, to Ellenclauren, Crime Online
dot Com investigative reporter where we have all breaking crime
and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell me about
these two guys. Everyone refers to them as Nigerian. They're American,
(32:16):
That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 10 (32:17):
They were born and raised in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
The reason I believe that people are getting calling them
their jeering is because they, for reasons that have not
been explained and I do not understand, apparently flew to
Nigeria the day after the attack and came back to
Chicago last week where they were met with investigators at
the airport. That has not been explained why that happened
or if it has.
Speaker 12 (32:40):
Anything to do at all with the alleged assaults. And
I also wanted to point something else out since we're
talking about the rope and the phone.
Speaker 10 (32:52):
A lot of the things that have come up in.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Recent days really don't look look good like they look
very suspicious, and and things are started to really maybe
fall apart here in this story. But a couple of
things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I
don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to
hand over his entire phone immediately.
Speaker 10 (33:13):
He's a public figure, he's a celebrity. You who had
Allan received before.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Allan, have you ever been attacked at two am, had
a rope tied around your neck and bleach pored on you?
Because if you have, I'd like to have you know
about that, okay, because if that happens to you and
your life is in danger, and cops say we need
your phone, you go here. Whatever I mean, when a
cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say,
(33:38):
whatever here, take it all, okay, just please leave my
children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay.
Nobody should be above the law. And if they want
your phone, give your phone. But you know what, that's
you and this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree to hand over the phone records
about the rope. What we heard in the in the
beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope
around his neck because he didn't want to sort of
disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to
see what had been done.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
That was the explanation for the rope of being left.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You know what, I hear you. And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
any evidence on the rope, so I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(34:48):
but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ
our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over
and the cops reachject. The cops rejected them. Darryl cod
are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying that
they were so heavily redacted that they were basically on
(35:12):
no use. What about handing over your phone records to
cops and you redact them.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime, First of all, I want
to go back to the net to the news. If
I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
(35:43):
but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted
and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,
living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
That's the whole reason they got into in the phone
records to start with, is that Smolette said to cops
he was on the phone with his manager at the
time of the attack, and that the manager says he
heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they
want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.
(36:20):
They asked on that for the records about two weeks
before they got a PDF file. Now, police also say
their cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a
sixty second gap in the video where you don't see
the Empire start, so there's no video of the actual attack.
I've looked at shots of the video and you see
(36:41):
two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is
what is telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two
guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very
clear on that, who take off to Nigeria the day
after the attack. They work out in his building. At
least one of them does in the gym in Smolette's building,
(37:03):
his apartment building. One of them has been an extra
on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.
I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing
a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.
So you can see they work out all the time.
They take off for Nigeria. The day after the attack,
they come back, they're met by the cops, they are questioned,
(37:25):
they are released, Doctor Bethany, no charges, and after meeting
with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolette.
What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.
Speaker 7 (37:36):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, may have fought no big deal,
we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,
we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all
(37:58):
blown over. But you know, but they talk to the police,
and as I was saying about Lingering, the whole story
does not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and
so the police are going to look to Jesse. And
I would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of
this When people Malinger symptoms.
Speaker 10 (38:17):
You know, I was.
Speaker 9 (38:17):
Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
For a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?
Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants
to prove to the EP of the show that he
is the center of a national news situation. Is he
wanting to take somebody else's role in empire? You know,
(38:42):
I think that there's a reward there somewhere, And if
you follow that trail, the.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Whole thing begins to be looking and researching and following
and asking questions. I'd like to say this is the
end of the story, but Somehow I predict it ain't
over yet, with Jesse Smollett Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Jesse Smollett the race attack hoax. Sir, well,
we thought his case was overright. The former Empire star
was convicted for orchestrating a race attack hoax, stirring up much,
(00:28):
much anger and dissension and hurt feelings. Well, guess what
in the last hours. I hope you're sitting down. You
may need to lay down for this one. The Illinois
Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed Jesse Smollett's conviction.
That's right, his twenty twenty one conviction has been overturned.
(00:54):
Why the Illinois Supreme Court says his second prosecutor after
charges were initially dropped was the reason for the reversal.
The court said, today we resolve a question about the
(01:15):
state's responsibility to honor agreements it makes with defendants. Specifically,
we address whether a dismissal of a case by an
all pross that's Latin for refusing to prosecute allows the
state to bring a second prosecution when the first dismissal
(01:38):
was part of an agreement with the defendant and the
defendant performs his part of the plea bargain. In other words,
the state oh this is such a bad decision by
the state. The state offered Smilett a deal, and their
part of the deal was they would all prosper drop
(02:00):
his case. Well, after that deal was struck, Smollett got
new charges and was convicted of falsely reporting a hate
crime against him. Smolett claimed he was hated because he
is black and gay. Okay, it turns out he arranged
(02:23):
the whole attack to try to get pr and to
pay raise. He was already bringing down tens of thousands
of dollars per episode on Empire. Greedy, Greedy Liar. Uh.
He was found guilty of five of six disorderly conduct charges.
(02:43):
The grand jury had returned a six count indictment against
him before that. He was sentenced to one hundred and
fifty days in jail, thirty months of probation, ordered to
pay about one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in restitution.
All in, he served six days of the sentence. Uh, please,
(03:04):
now is reversed. Okay, what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
You know, it's two o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
You're going to subway sub Speria is.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Open twenty four hours.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Like, people kill me when they say things like that,
because It's like subway is open twenty four hours for
a reason, so that when you're hungry at night and
you ain't got no food, you go to subway the
camera facing north. How is that my issue? It feels
like if I had said it was a Muslim or.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
A Mexican.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Or someone black, I feel like the doubters would have
supported me a lot, much more, a lot more. And
that says a lot about the place that we are
in our country right now, the.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people that.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Are trying to separate us, and.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
It's just not okay. It's just not okay.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
And for all of the people, the next time that
you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact
that it happened, and you say to them, well, why
are you waiting until now? Just remember that mine was
reported right away and look what has happened.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smollette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males, that it changed
at some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is
(04:41):
how the story started. That also has changed to am
in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.
According to Jesse Simolette, everyone knows him big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(05:02):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,
they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(05:24):
the truth, will the Empire star go to jail for
pulling a hoax? When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
(05:48):
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
all star panel for forensics, Xi burnand boy do we
need her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction.
Renowned criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor joining me from Atlanta,
(06:10):
joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall and joining
me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.
Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm
hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the
wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go
back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't feel like
(06:33):
getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.
But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Go.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
Well, it does appear that Jossy Samallet had arrived to
the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
was a matter of him waking up in the middle
of that and going out to the freezing cold in
the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and
he's he tells police that he's on his way home
with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
We wait, wha wait.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is in Chicago, correct,
that's right, doctor Bethany. He must have been very hungry,
very hungry.
Speaker 7 (07:09):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
So if it's.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
Twenty degrees out, regular temperature the wind starts blowing forty
fifty degree below windschill. I did my undergraduate work there.
Nobody goes out at two.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.
(07:51):
And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge
or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,
he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.
See I start right there. That's where I start the story.
And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
I just think that's Craig cray.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Well.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two in
the morning.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was you know, busted on child porn. I guess
it was their spokesperson. But long story, short, Darryl Cohen.
I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see from all of the evidence that's been
presented to me, this guy is looking for a more
publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to
get it.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Well, he's getting it, all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true, because the official,
the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
treated as a victim because he is a victim.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Phone.
Speaker 8 (09:09):
When did you, because as you said, it was an
accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
They asked for my phone.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
They wanted me to give my phone to the tech
for three to four hours.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Why because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my
friend's numbers, my private emails, my private voice memos.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I don't know what that's going to be to hand
over my phone for.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
put out there.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Roberts aid, ABC's GMA,
she's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
Empire star. Everybody loves Empire, The Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
(10:26):
a sandwich and is attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says, he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted the phone, to confirm that he
(10:49):
called his manager and not nine to one one. They
are being clear why they want the phone, but they
want the phone. Karen Smith joining me for Insics Expert
out of Florida. Why do they want Why do they
want Jesse Smollette's phone?
Speaker 9 (11:03):
Listen when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators.
The best way now in the world of social media
and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
and Twitter and all of those things, and text messages
especially Listen, if nothing happened, and I understand, you know,
(11:24):
the privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and
whatever that he's not want released.
Speaker 10 (11:28):
But the police they're not going to go into that.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
That's not their interest.
Speaker 9 (11:32):
Their interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett or
Smollette and these other alleged perpetrators, if there was any,
if there was any, the phone call that he made
to his manager, what time did he make it, where
did he make it from. All of those questions have
to be answered, and they have to have the device.
They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not
(11:54):
how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecute
or felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted.
I just missed him, Darryl at the time when we
were when I first started prosecuting We did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(12:18):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(12:40):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
rope tied around your neck out on the street, you
had your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(13:03):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
Darryl, Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with
finding out why he would call his manager. So the
last time I checked, was not a law enforcement person,
was not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the
police any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,
whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief. Whatever we
(13:26):
may be, we are going to call the police if
something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem
with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
work right now. He's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
You probably stand up all night.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Law.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
I thank you coming up with that.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay, you know what,
I'm going to just pass over that one. You know
it's a big deal to me, Darryl, and I know
you're a famous defense attorney now, but in my mind,
you'll always be an in credible felony prosecutor because you
could get a jury eating out of your hand. You're
(14:05):
always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts.
You knew it all when you went in front of
a jury. And in this case, when you have a
victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem.
I don't care who he is. I don't care who
he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
(14:27):
But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
a problem with me. What's your problem?
Speaker 5 (14:34):
There's a problem with me, as well, I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,
it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
Really and you well, because.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
He's a famous things TV star. So here here's this
is another wrinkle in this. To Ellenklauren Crimeline dot com.
Hold On, I'm gonna write this down. Here's the thing. So,
if they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they
were targeting him and this was a hate crime, how
(15:18):
do they know to be outside the subway at two
am with bleach and rope? Or are they just hanging
around to get a sandwich and they happen to have
bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse Smolette,
e K, were they casing out his apartment? Why were
(15:40):
they there at two am? And I haven't even touched
on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work
out in his apartment building gym, that know him, that
have been extras on the set of Empire, or at
least one of them has that have been questioned and
(16:02):
released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to
do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to
get to the theory. So the perps were what waiting
outside the subway samwich shop for him? I mean, what's
the theory here? How did they know he was going
to be getting a sandwich at two am if he
(16:22):
was the one targeted for a hate crime?
Speaker 6 (16:25):
Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
has an an Instagram account and he's a very active
social media user, and we learned that he had been
in New York during the previous days and he was
on He.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Had slown back to Chicago that night, but his flight
was the lead and he came in much later than expected,
and he posted a couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.
Speaker 6 (16:52):
Account talking about how his flight was delayed. So someone
who had to have had a little bit of information
about what was going on with him that day. If
they wanted to track his movements, they could to a
certain degree through his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Okay, let me ask you this regarding Jesse Smilette. Now
that may make it make more sense that he was
out at two am? Was he was his flight so delayed?
He was just getting home from the airport at say
one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing
of that? Because that makes although the Chicago airport is
(17:30):
full of food, but I don't know if it would
be open the food stands would be opened that late
at night. So if he gets off a plane from
New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his
apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And
there is a theory out there that that is how
he communicated to set up the attack through posting Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
(17:55):
that these two brothers could actually see his movement by
looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, ek, do we
know what time he got in from his flight?
Speaker 6 (18:05):
You don't know exactly what time he landed or got
back to his apartment, but it does We don't have
a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, but
it does seem as though it's likely that he did
stop off at his apartment's.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
First Crime Stories with Nancy Grace by Nancy Grace and
this is Crime Stories. Race attack faker Jesse Smilette wasn't
(18:39):
happy at the tens of thousands of dollars he was
raking in per episode as a big star on the
series Empire. Oh No, he wanted more, and to get more,
he tried to create a pr hurricane by arranging a
race attack on himself, making it appeer as though he
(19:04):
had been singled out and attacked because he was black
and gay. He staged the whole thing. In the last days,
the Illinois Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed the conviction.
I will never forget these facts.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth, is just the truth, because everybody has their
own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
(19:43):
young black children, to know how strong that they are,
to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolett bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the motions.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,
I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken sometimes maybe too outspoken,
but it's who I am, you know, so I get
(20:27):
the idea of pissing people off, that you're gonna rub
people the wrong way.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
threatening language, at least with powdery substance likely tailanol. Do
you think there's a link between the letter and the
attack and you did mention it to the police right
away out of the letter?
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick
figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,
with the words that said small edge, you will die black.
There was no address, but the return address it in
big red, you know, like caps maga. Did I make
that up too?
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with
Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that
the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed
the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video
that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse
(21:30):
Smollette have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack.
Threatening letters.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it could
be changed direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's
two things about the letter that are coming up more
(22:09):
recently in the discussion around this case. One of those
is that some unidentified sources who have access to the
set and may even work.
Speaker 10 (22:18):
With Jesse, have told CBS News.
Speaker 6 (22:21):
That he was unhappy about the response to the letter
and the threat that he got, that he felt that
there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he
was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up
this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.
Speaker 10 (22:41):
The other thing that we're learning, and.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
Again these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified.
Speaker 10 (22:47):
Sources you are talking to news outlets.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
But we're learning that the letter was made out of
and you can see it in the photos.
Speaker 10 (22:54):
The letter was written sort of like.
Speaker 6 (22:55):
A ransom type of letter, with cutout letters from a.
Speaker 10 (22:59):
Magazine, and we're.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
Hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of
these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved
in this attack.
Speaker 10 (23:09):
They took away a magazine.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall. Are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christie and Erkil Poirot, Like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(23:32):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
I can tell you this. Remember the runaway Bride when
(23:53):
she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
and do community service out in the pub. Look for
I forgot how long other people have done jail time,
hard jail time for bringing police in on a hoax
of an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really
happening at the time of a hoax, and instead of
(24:16):
dealing with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands
and thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve
a fake call, and this one is a whopper. Now,
what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall the studio, the
Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told, but
(24:37):
according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction to
the letters. Does that mean what they didn't get enough attention?
What does that mean to you, Doctor Bethany?
Speaker 7 (24:45):
In forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained to
do with crime victims is to find out if they're
doing something called lingering. Lingering is when you make up
medical symptoms or you exaggerate metal symptoms for some external reward.
It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent of criminal cases,
(25:08):
lingering is involved in some way, twenty percent of PI cases,
as you can imagine malingering, thirty percent of disability cases.
The sicker I am, the more I'm going to get
some kind of reward or attention or I'm going to
get out of some consequence, like you're not going to
send me to jail, I'm not going to have to
go to the military. So what's so interesting to me
(25:30):
about this story is the exaggerate two aspects. The exaggerated
nature of his symptoms. He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach
on his clothing, the rope around his neck. Wouldn't you
pull a rope off? Now he's sitting there, you know,
with the clear sign that he's been accosted. He talks
about being black, gay, LGBTQ, anything that could paint him
(25:53):
in a sympathetic light. He keeps putting out there. The
second aspect is the fuzzy nature of the timeline. When
somebody malingers, they usually obstruct the investigation process. They do
not want the investigators to know clearly what happens.
Speaker 10 (26:09):
So if I have a.
Speaker 7 (26:10):
Patient and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall,
I was, I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me.
I want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,
what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I
just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very fuzzy detail.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
So is it true? Ek ellencalorin crime online dot Com
investigative reporter that smole Ed had been in New York
to audition for a role in the play that is
very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we
know about the play for which he was auditioning.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
He was at a reading.
Speaker 10 (26:49):
Actually it wasn't an audition.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
I believe he's already.
Speaker 10 (26:51):
Part of the cast.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
But that's what he was doing in New York. He
was flying back to He was flying back to Chicago
from New York, and he was in New York because
he was doing a re of the script of this play.
And the character in the play is.
Speaker 10 (27:05):
A person of color.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in
the cave in the case of the fictional character.
Speaker 10 (27:11):
But he is someone who the.
Speaker 6 (27:14):
Character is someone who has been the victim of hate
crimes that, according to the reports that we're reading the
have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly committed
against him. Just that the within hours of him arriving
back to Chicago after.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
The same wording the same slurs, awful slurs. I'm learning
also Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in
felony court that he Smelette did not call police. It
was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack,
according to the New York Times, and I think that
was his manager. He did not call police, and when
(27:53):
cops got to his place, he still was wearing the
rope around his neck.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
Help me. I can't help you, Nancy, because it sounds
to me like a setup. Did you also pay attention
to his voice. This is a guy that's reading a script.
This is not someone who's upset. This is not someone
who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not going to
be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail. Add
(28:21):
the fact that he's not giving his phone to the
police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all he
can do is say, oh my gosh, I was attacked
and this is terrible. But he has a noose around
his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy
who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on
(28:44):
television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not
the same. Some are, some are not. This guy is
reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,
he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, But
what he did I didn't see is that he's not
as bright as he believes himself to be. So he's
(29:05):
not shakesleat.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers
Ola and Abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told
detectives their.
Speaker 11 (29:15):
Role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on actor
Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smolette
paid the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
In attacks, Smolette reported to police saying two men slinging
racial and homophobic slurs, dousing him in bleach and placing
a rope around his neck. The Osindaros were arrested and
(29:37):
later released by Chicago police. Simultaneously, the FBI is looking
into a threatening letter Smolette received just days before the
reported attack. The words pieced together by magazines and a
drawing depicting a rope around a stick figure's neck. Days later,
Smollette said that's what happened to him during the reported attack.
During a raid of the brother's home last week, only
(29:59):
cba to his cameras were allowed inside. Among the items,
investigators walked away with a magazine, a piece of paper,
along with a writing sample, and a wallet with stamps.
Multiple sources say Smollette was upset the threatening letter didn't
receive a bigger reaction. That's when he orchestrated the attack
with the brothers. The rope used bought by at least
(30:21):
one of the brothers, purchased at the direction of Smollette.
Sources say the brothers are friends with Smolett Olach playing
an extra on Empire. Last week, in a televised interview,
Smollette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,
so I punched his ass back.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 11 (30:44):
The brothers, who were first seen in grainy surveillance video,
now coming into focus speaking exclusively with me over the phone,
saying we're not racist, we're not homophobic, and we are
not anti Trump. We were born and raised in Chicago,
and our Americans citizens.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
You are hearing our friend at CBA Chicago reporter Charlie
Damar reporting about what Chicago police took when they rated
the brothers home, claiming that Smollette was upset that his
threatening letters did not get the attention he had assumed
that they would. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Believe it
(31:32):
or not, Jesse Smollette, the race attack faker has gotten
his conviction reversed what happened that night. People that make
false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually
land behind bars if they're regular mortals like all of us.
(31:55):
If your Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. Jesse Smollette,
superstar on the cast of Empire, to Ellenclauren, Crime Online
dot Com investigative reporter where we have all breaking crime
and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell me about
these two guys. Everyone refers to them as Nigerian. They're American,
(32:16):
That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 10 (32:17):
They were born and raised in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
The reason I believe that people are getting calling them
their jeering is because they, for reasons that have not
been explained and I do not understand, apparently flew to
Nigeria the day after the attack and came back to
Chicago last week where they were met with investigators at
the airport. That has not been explained why that happened
or if it has.
Speaker 12 (32:40):
Anything to do at all with the alleged assaults. And
I also wanted to point something else out since we're
talking about the rope and the phone.
Speaker 10 (32:52):
A lot of the things that have come up in.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Recent days really don't look look good like they look
very suspicious, and and things are started to really maybe
fall apart here in this story. But a couple of
things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I
don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to
hand over his entire phone immediately.
Speaker 10 (33:13):
He's a public figure, he's a celebrity. You who had
Allan received before.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Allan, have you ever been attacked at two am, had
a rope tied around your neck and bleach pored on you?
Because if you have, I'd like to have you know
about that, okay, because if that happens to you and
your life is in danger, and cops say we need
your phone, you go here. Whatever I mean, when a
cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say,
(33:38):
whatever here, take it all, okay, just please leave my
children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay.
Nobody should be above the law. And if they want
your phone, give your phone. But you know what, that's
you and this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree to hand over the phone records
about the rope. What we heard in the in the
beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope
around his neck because he didn't want to sort of
disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to
see what had been done.
Speaker 10 (34:21):
That was the explanation for the rope of being left.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You know what, I hear you. And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
any evidence on the rope, so I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(34:48):
but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ
our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over
and the cops reachject. The cops rejected them. Darryl cod
are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying that
they were so heavily redacted that they were basically on
(35:12):
no use. What about handing over your phone records to
cops and you redact them.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime, First of all, I want
to go back to the net to the news. If
I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
(35:43):
but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted
and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,
living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
That's the whole reason they got into in the phone
records to start with, is that Smolette said to cops
he was on the phone with his manager at the
time of the attack, and that the manager says he
heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they
want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.
(36:20):
They asked on that for the records about two weeks
before they got a PDF file. Now, police also say
their cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a
sixty second gap in the video where you don't see
the Empire start, so there's no video of the actual attack.
I've looked at shots of the video and you see
(36:41):
two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is
what is telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two
guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very
clear on that, who take off to Nigeria the day
after the attack. They work out in his building. At
least one of them does in the gym in Smolette's building,
(37:03):
his apartment building. One of them has been an extra
on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.
I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing
a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.
So you can see they work out all the time.
They take off for Nigeria. The day after the attack,
they come back, they're met by the cops, they are questioned,
(37:25):
they are released, Doctor Bethany, no charges, and after meeting
with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolette.
What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.
Speaker 7 (37:36):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, may have fought no big deal,
we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,
we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all
(37:58):
blown over. But you know, but they talk to the police,
and as I was saying about Lingering, the whole story
does not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and
so the police are going to look to Jesse. And
I would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of
this When people Malinger symptoms.
Speaker 10 (38:17):
You know, I was.
Speaker 9 (38:17):
Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
For a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?
Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants
to prove to the EP of the show that he
is the center of a national news situation. Is he
wanting to take somebody else's role in empire? You know,
(38:42):
I think that there's a reward there somewhere, And if
you follow that trail, the.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Whole thing begins to be looking and researching and following
and asking questions. I'd like to say this is the
end of the story, but Somehow I predict it ain't
over yet, with Jesse Smollett Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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