August 26, 2025 • 44 mins
Jeffrey Epstein's former associate and convicted sex trafficker, Ghislaine Maxwell, makes a shocking claim during a recent interview with the Department of Justice.
She says Epstein told her he had heart problems, and those heart conditions prevented him from regular sexual intercourse. Her statement highly contradicts victim testimony about Epstein's weekly nonconsensual abuse of underage girls.
Maxwell continues in the interview that former President Bill Clinton was her friend, not Jeffrey.
Epstein’s, and Clinton never received a ‘massage’ in Epstein’s company.When asked if President Trump had done anything inappropriate with masseuses, Maxwell replied, "Absolutely never, in any context."She denies knowing whether masseuses from Mar-a-Lago's spa ended up giving Jeffrey Epstein private massages.When asked if she herself recruited any for Epstein, Maxwell states, "I've never recruited a masseuse from Mar-a-Lago for that, as far as I remember." Maxwell also claims there is no list or little black book of famous people who were provided minors for the purposes of sex trafficking.
Virginia Guiffre’s family and other Epstein victims have slammed the government’s decision to
interview Ghislaine Maxwell and release the tapes, saying Maxwell was passed a microphone
and given a platform to ‘rewrite history.’
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Troy Slaten - Los Angeles Criminal Defense Attorney, Slaten Lawyers; X @TroySlaten
- Dani Pinter - Senior Vice President and Director of Law Center, National Center on Sexual Exploitation
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Tisa Tells - Pop Culture Investigator & Commentator and Host of 'Tisa Tells' on YouTube; YouTube: @TisaTells, Instagram & TikTok: @TisaTellss
- Sydney Sumner - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Epstein files release. It's
a big hoax, Lies, lies, lies. Why won't Bondye release
the files? What is she hiding this? As Julain Maxwell
(00:23):
gives a statement to the Feds, it's nothing but a
pack of lies, including wait for it, that Jeffrey Epstein
couldn't sleep with adult women because of a heart condition.
This is while he is charged with sex trafficking miners.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. Now we've got the
administration telling us look the other way.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
We got orange blobs, we got a guy who looks
like you know, he supposedly killed himself.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
With orange paper towels. Please, there are probably.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hundreds of people who need Jeffrey Epstein gone for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
There's so much happening in the Jeffrey Epstein case. He
is haunting us from the Great Beyond. Actually it's not
the Great Beyond. I know where he is. He's having
dinner with Satan tonight. That said, why can't we get
our miits on the Epstein files. Jelaine Maxwell, his hinch
(01:24):
person his bills above has been transferred to a cushy,
dormitory style jail. And she gives hours and hours of statements,
all of them a pack of lies. Is she trying
to curry favor, to pave the way to a pardon?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, speaking of her lies, I want you to hear
one right off the top. Listen.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
So there's been a lot of conversations about whether mister
Epstein can maintain, likey, a list.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Of people, like a book of of.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Famous people that he knew, like a it's called a
black book, or a.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Client list or a list. Did you know of the
existence of any such list?
Speaker 7 (02:15):
There is no list. We'll start with that. The genesis
of that story.
Speaker 8 (02:20):
I can actually trace for you from its absolute inception.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
If that is what you're interested in.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
First, you know to be sure there is no list.
There's no client list, nothing like that.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
No, there's nothing you know that.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I'm obviously.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
During the time that you were with mister Epstein, and
even in the two thousands when you were around less frequently,
you never observed or you never saw, any sort of
list or black book or a list of individuals who.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
You know link to certain missus or anything like that.
Speaker 8 (03:01):
Absolutely, no, there is no list. There is no I'm
not aware of any blackmail. I never heard, I never
heard that, I never saw it, and I never I
never imagined it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Don't fall for that posh brit accent. There you hear
Gillai Maxwell swearing there is no client list.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
What do we mean by client list?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Jeffrey Epstein had a world wide child trafficking ring, right
He flew little girls from all over the world, Turkey, France,
the stands to an island that we know of, where
(03:51):
they were put off the plane onto a ferry and
ferried to a private island in the US Virgin Islands.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
We have jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Now, why is there a parade of twelve year old
little girls going off ferries to Epstein's mansion, which is
miles of water away from the shore. One little girl,
and it's been documented, try to swim off the island
and get back to shore, but she couldn't. So the
(04:26):
clients are the men that came to be with those children.
Now here Gilain Maxwell saying there is no such thing.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, guess what.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
The US Attorney General, the US Attorney General for our
whole nation says, She's got the client list right there
on her desk.
Speaker 9 (04:47):
Listen the DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey
Epstein's clients.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Will that really happen?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump. I'm going to need
to hear that again.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That is from our friends at Fox News, our friend
John Roberts. Okay, Maxwell's saying there is no such thing,
Bonnie saying, as you're right here on my desk, people,
and we're going to release it.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, they haven't released it yet. What are they hiding?
And at the.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Core of this are little girls now adults still waiting
on justice at joining me where now it's psycho analyst
doctor Bethany Marshall, author of deal Breaker. You can see
her on Peacock and she is at Doctorbethany Marshall dot com.
You know, doctor Bethany, I have dealt with a lot
of child molestation victims, a lot of rape victims.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And yes, they grow up and if you were walking.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Down the street, you would know that they were any
different from everybody else, but they carry with them. It's
an emotional handicap. They are never the same again, much
less when their own government covers.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Up Nancy to carry around profound shame and guilt. And
when I say shame, I'm talking about a deep, underlying
feeling that they are cut off from the love of
the community, without support, without protection, and that they can
never trust again, and that there will never be reconciliation.
(06:20):
And in many ways these feelings are true, They're not
just made up. In a case like this, when when
Dylan Maxwell says there's no little black book, Okay, there's
a purple book, Okay, there's a Rolodex.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
You can't tell me there's.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Not a manifest that they had for the planes that
the Lolita expressed, didn't have a list of passengers that
went there.
Speaker 10 (06:40):
You can't tell me that.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Those billions in transfers to Russia had recipients, bank accounts,
people managing those accounts. These women who feel a shame
been cut off from love feel that way for a
reason because we as a society is still we're still
playing into this sham. This think Gilan Maxwell is telling.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know, the lies that she is spewing goes on
and on, and you know, let me go to a
veteran trial lawyer, and I know I'm not ready to
fight with you just yet.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Troyce s Layton.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
But I think you're gonna agree with me, Troy slaytnes
is as I said, a veteran trial lawyer joining us
out of LA tried a ton of cases and won
a lot of them. Troy, have you ever noticed that
when people are trying to tell a lie, I'm thinking
of defendants. You're probably gonna think of somebody else. But
and you just sit there quietly, and they look at you,
(07:34):
and then they just keep talking, and the lie gets
bigger and bigger and more and more elaborate. It's very
hard for a died in the wool liar to just
make it short and sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They just have to elaborate, which I love. Have you
ever noticed that?
Speaker 9 (07:47):
I think even the great author Shakespeare noticed it when
he said the lady doth protest too much. Liars tend
to spin long yon burns and create even seemingly unimportant
details in order to make the lie more believable. And
(08:09):
we may have seen that in action here during Glenn
Maxwell's long interview with the Assistant Attorney General.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Now Troy Slayton. Of course, not to split hairs or
parse words, but I believe I've corrected you on this
before the quote is methinks thou death protest too much
is not just women, Troy Slayton misogynists, and that is
from Hamlet just future reference actually keep saying it incorrectly,
So I can you.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Also review my Shakespeare? You do that in the meantime,
I think.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You're absolutely correct. They can't stop themselves. And I'm getting
back to Gilaine Maxwell. So she starts off with saying
there is no client list, what client is?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
What?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Now she goes into a lot of detail, brace yourself, Slaton.
Speaker 11 (09:00):
This.
Speaker 8 (09:00):
So the original statement that Brad Edwards makes that's in
the documents.
Speaker 7 (09:05):
And ceraneously is that it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
It then morphs into something that Alfredo took a book
that Alfredo took from Epstein's computer. But there's no computer,
I know, certainly more in two thousand and five when
this was allegedly taken, that came out as a book,
and then it morphed into the civil time for my
civil cases into a book.
Speaker 7 (09:32):
That was taken from my computer, and then.
Speaker 8 (09:34):
It morphed into the some district of New York as
a combination list of minewn Epstein's that is a metamorphosis
through documents that you can trace.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What in the world is she trying to say, joining
me crime stories, investigative reporter Sydney Sumner.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Here is Gan Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Why they move to a cushy, dormitory style jail. It's
not really even a jail, it's more like a camp.
Is she trying to cover for Trump or cover for Clinton?
I don't know, maybe neither of those, but she's definitely
trying to get a pardon. And here she's saying, there
is no client list, There is no Little Black Book.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
In other words, there are no John's. That's what we
call them on the street John's.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So she's trying to explain the genesis of the Little
Black Book, the client list's story.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And she's talking.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
About someone named Alfredo Rodriguez. And isn't that Epstein's butler, Yes,
of course he had a butler.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Explain what she's saying, Sidney Sumner.
Speaker 10 (10:47):
Right, So here she's saying that the purported client list
that everyone is freaking out about wants to see doesn't
really exist. But to so get Blanche up to speed
on where exactly this rumor came from, she goes all
the way back to two thousand and nine, when Epstein
(11:10):
has just been criminally investigated the first time and civil
suits are now coming out against him. So Maxwell claims
that this law firm that was a little bit shady
took on a lot of these Epstein victim civil suit cases,
and one of those attorneys was working with Epstein's butler
(11:33):
to get evidence against him. So that's where Alfredo Rodriguez
comes in. And so what they claimed, what this lawyer
claimed to be a client list was really just in
address book that the butler went through and apparently circled
or marked people who were involved in this trafficking ring.
(11:56):
So Maxwell gets through this long winded explanation.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
What's wrong with that bottom line boiling it down is
that a previous civil lawyer went through an address book,
a five hundred person address book that belaw Oops, there's
the Cuomos and the Kennedys on there. I doubt that
they were visiting Lola Island. So my point is there
(12:21):
are regular contacts in there along with who many believe
are clients, let me say in a nice way, clients.
So there's a five hundred person address book and the butler,
who knew Epstein really well, who was there day to day,
who saw who was coming and going, went through and
marked the names of the men involved in the sex
(12:44):
trafficking ring.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Okay, sounds like evidence to me.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So. First of all, Gallaine Maxwell, in her effort to
get a pardon, says there is no client list.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Let's hear what else she has to say.
Speaker 12 (12:59):
Maxwell denies every aspect of Virginia Geffray's victimization, says she
never recruited messuses. Maxwell insists Jeffrey is lying about sex
with Prince Andrew. Maxwell says Jeffrey used evidence from flight
logs to fabricate the story, saying she was busy with
her mom's eightieth birthday, her home in London was not
(13:19):
a suitable venue for royalty in Jeffray's description of her
bathroom where Prince Andrew allegedly raped her was missing unforgettable details.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
When you were just asked about the photo, you said
you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think
it was just misstated or do you think it's literally
a fig photo?
Speaker 7 (13:39):
I believe it's nearly a.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Why do you think that? Wells well, I.
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Don't remember it, okay, But the outfit I'm wearing, yeah,
is the outfit from my mom's bathtyboy.
Speaker 13 (13:58):
So but you don't have any Do you dispute that
they've met each other?
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Do you know whether they've met each other?
Speaker 7 (14:08):
I do not know that they.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Meant okay, So you not only so you think that
the photographs fic, but you also are not even possitive
they actually ever met each other.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
I know.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
So you don't have a specific recollection of.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
Kind of being at an event or a party or
your apartment, your flat London with Prince Andrew and absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
In addition to Gillian Maxwell stating there is no client list,
when Bonnie says it's right here on my desk people,
she now has disavowed everything that Virginia Giffrey said about
being abused not only.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
By Epstein but by Prince s Andrew.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Then why Tisa Tales joining me investigative reporter.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Star of Teas Tales on YouTube?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Did Prince Andrew enter into a twenty plus million dollars
settlement to shut Jeffrey up? If he's totally innocent? And hey,
I want you to hear one more thing. Hold on, Tisa,
You're going to love this. Did you hear Glame Maxwell
saying that could possibly have been a real photo because
(15:17):
that's the.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Outfit I wore to my mom's birthdate.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Well, she took a page out of Andrew's book. Remember
he said, well, that couldn't possibly be real because those
are my traveling clothes. I guess he has a different
set of clothes every day to travel. In fact, let's
listen to Prince Andrew speaking to the BBC.
Speaker 14 (15:42):
I don't believe it's a picture of me in London
because when I go out to when I go out
in London, I wear a suit and a tie. That's
what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
That's me.
Speaker 14 (15:55):
But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
but I don't. I have simply no recollection of the
photograph ever being taken.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
That's where our friends at BBC and Troye Layton.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
That is exactly why defendants are told keep your yap shut,
exercise your right to the Fifth Amendment.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Because Andrew just it got worse and worse and worse.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So now he's saying those are his traveling clothes and
he would never have worn those. Two get together and
that is him, but it's not his hand. He later
says that he was there, but he doesn't recall being upstairs,
So how does he even know that is the upstairs
if he's never been to the upstairs. I mean, his
lies get worse and worse, and both he and Gulane
(16:42):
Maxwell state this couldn't be real because they've got on
the wrong clothes.
Speaker 9 (16:47):
The biggest nightmare for an attorney, either in the criminal
realm or even in the civil realm, is having their
client give interviews and multiple interviews away where they're explaining
mi new details that will always be used against them.
Everything that somebody says, whether it's in court or not,
(17:11):
if they're a party, can be used against them. It's
not hearsay when if parties to a lawsuit. And yeah,
that's why it's so important. I always recommend to my
clients that they exercise their right to remain silent and
they don't get diarrhea of the mouth like.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You may should the hay up.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yes, okay, now speaking of yes that's me, but I've
got on the wrong clothes and that's not my hand
and I've never been to that part of Glen Maxwell's
home and she's saying those are the wrong clothes. I
would never have worn that well, Andrew says, it's so
much better than I can't listen.
Speaker 14 (17:46):
The photograph is taken upstairs, and I don't think I
have a winch upstairs.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
In Glenn's hunt that from our friends at BBC OKT
SA tails I was asking you. Glaine Maxwell goes on
and on and on ad nauseum with some crazy excuse
about the butler. Okay, right there, that's getting three inches
up my tail pipe with the accent and the butler
and the this and the that.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I just can't relate to that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
But that aside, she's claiming she never introduced Andrew to
Virginia Giffrey.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Hello Meiu's flash and nearly brought down I'm monarchy.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And there was a twenty plus million dollar settlement to
keep Virginia Giffrey quiet.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know how ill the queen must have been.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You know, she was a very frugal lady to pay
over twenty meal because of Andrew being with a minor.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
And now, and now Elene Maxwell wants us to believe her.
Speaker 15 (18:47):
Not only does she want us to believe her, she
is literally trying to rewrite history.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
In real time.
Speaker 15 (18:53):
It's funny to me that something I can understand that
this happened twenty years ago, fifty years ago.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
This literally just had in a few years ago. It
is fresh in everyone's mind.
Speaker 15 (19:02):
This was a campaign promise, and they sat there in
the most bumbling manner, almost like there were two kids
that got caught sneaking out to go to the neighbor's party.
So you never knew him, No, I never I never
knew him. So you're saying, even the way the questions
were presented, so you never knew him, you never said
(19:23):
And like you said, Nancy, magically, she doesn't know Bill Clinton,
she doesn't. She barely knows Jeffrey Epstein, she barely knows
Prince Andrew.
Speaker 16 (19:33):
As a matter of fact, if I think Epstein was
dating Princess Diana, she literally was throwing a whole pot
of spaghetti.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Hey hey, hey, hey, hey, stop right there.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's one thing for Glainne Maxwell to drag Princess Diana
into this and the queen, it's another thing for you
to do it, little lady.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Now go wash your mouth. That was site.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We're not hearing anything about Princess Diane. Hey, doctor Bethany,
I gotta throw you something else. We'll let Troy Slayton
mull On this one. Glaine Maxwell also says, now, the
whole point of me showing many of her most notable lives,
there are so many, is to say that everything she's
(20:17):
saying about a client list, everything she's saying about Epstein,
not sex trafficking, that there were no clients coming to
the island, or to New York or to Florida. They're
all lies and there is a cover up. And at
the heart of it are girls as young as twelve
(20:38):
years old that were trafficked.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Bethany.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's what this is about, and we're relying on Glaine
Maxwell to tell the truth. Who's like dying to get
a pardon. She'll say anything to doctor Bethany. She also said,
wait for it, death, doctor Bethany, that she only had
sex with Epstein once and then for a really long
(21:09):
time no sex because of his heart conditions.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I don't even know where to start with that one.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Nancy, Okay, Well, first of all, try mind the mindset
of a pedophile. There are two types. There's the fixated
and there's the regressed. The fixated only ever wants children,
and then the regress will sometimes choose adults, but under
times of stress, they will gravitate towards children. Both types
Nancy are incredibly childlike. Pedophiles are children themselves. That's why
(21:44):
they are attracted to children, and that's why Andrew and
Dalen Maxwell are lying at Caisatel said it like two
little six or seven year olds who snuck out to
the party next door and now they're covering up to
their parents. They have a childlike mindset. What's scary though,
is that it's cloaked under all this money and sophistication
(22:04):
and power and network of other people. So they pass
as adults in society, but there's sexual proclivities and the
way they operate mentally are like children. And you know
what they're not mentioning, Nancy. There's no fond or concerned
or empathic recollection of the victims. If Gilan Maxwell would
just say once poor Virginia Jeffries, I can't believe you
(22:29):
know that she has gone through what she has gone through,
or God rest her soul, or I hear she's no
longer with us. You know, there's not one empathic mention
of the victims. It's as if the victims the earth.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You missed this. Dtor bethany.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I spoke well over an hour to author Barry Levine,
who has tracked billions of dollars of epstains and interviewed
hundreds of people to figure this whole thing out. Gallaine
Maxwell actually said, Hey, I'm going to throw this to
Joe Scott Morgan. Jelaine Maxwell actually said about the girl victims,
(23:12):
they're just trash. All those girls are just trash. So
Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
I want to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 17 (23:24):
Yeah, we see this with people that are they have
serious psychopathy. Nancy, we cover these cases all the time
where you know, we have these individuals that will kill
subjects and kind of dump them off on the side
of the road. I know on body bags with my podcast,
we cover these cases incessantly where people just discard others
(23:45):
like they have no meaning. But Nancy, I want to
go back to something real quick that does have meaning.
And you'll understand where I'm going with this because you've
questioned people. In the very first audio clip of this deposition,
did you notice how well she makes a statement and
she was not prompted by counsel. She says there is
(24:06):
no blackmail list. Blackmail never came up. She's the one
that actually introduced that term into that initial conversation. And
you know, and I know that when you're speaking to
people and they have their mind in a particular area,
and I'm thinking right now, very nefarious. Blackmail list didn't
come up. So she's thinking about this and then all
(24:29):
of a sudden she verbalizes it and also this idea
of dehumanizing individuals as well. How do those two things
come together. Well, it's all about her, It's all about
him and the world that they lived in and inhabited.
And I still submit to you that she's trying to
protect him in death. She's trying to protect herself, and
(24:50):
she's trying to protect the reputation. And Lord only knows
who else is on the blackmail list, which I think
actually exists.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
When you were just asked about the photo, you said
you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think
it was just misstated or do you think it's literally
a fake photo.
Speaker 7 (25:08):
I believe it's literally a fake photo.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Why do you think that, Well, first of all.
Speaker 7 (25:17):
I don't remember it. We'll stop, okay.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
But the outfit I'm wearing is the outfit from my
mom's birthday party.
Speaker 13 (25:27):
So but you don't have any Do you dispute that
they've met each other?
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Do you know whether they'd met each other.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I do not know that they meant okay, So you
not only so you think the photograph is fake, but
you also are not even positively actually ever met each other.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
So you don't have a specific recollection of kind of
being at an event or a party or your apartment.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
You know you're flat London with Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And why as Pam Bondi, the US Attorney General, affecting
a hoax on us, the American people. She swore these
files would be released, and now there's a political spin
on it that nobody cares that these young victims are
(26:22):
all collaborating to somehow smear the administration. They were twelve
years old when this happened. They are not in this
for politics. They have been begging for justice for years.
Glaine Maxwell, are we going to believe her? She denies
as a client list, She denies there was child sex trafficking.
(26:44):
She denies everything that Virginia Giffras said.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And by the way, she was.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Convicted for child sex trafficking. She is denying the suicide.
She said that didn't happen. She's denying every single thing
about this case. But I want you to hear proof
that that.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Photo was real.
Speaker 18 (27:10):
Despite Elaine Maxwell's assistence the photo of her, Virginia Goufray
and Prince Andrew is a flat out fake. The Mail
on Sunday says they saw the proof it is real.
Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas took the pictures that
first ran in twenty eleven of the original printed photo
Thomas saw Walgreens received for the prints from a location
just a few miles from Gufray's West Palm Beach home,
(27:31):
and now nearly fifteen years later, Thomas realized he also
photographed the back of the print. The back of the
photo is stamped with the print date March thirteen, two
thousand and one, just three days after Goufrey was trafficked
to the Prince in London.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
To hear Virginia Giffray, she and Jeffrey Epstein saying in
the Catholic School choir together. Sidney Sumner, what is the
significance of the Mail on Sunday Photographer Michael Thomas, who
took the pictures that first ran in twenty eleven.
Speaker 10 (28:06):
Well, Thomas didn't realize that in addition to the thirty
less photos he took of the front of the original
printed photo, he also took photos of the back of
that print, and Thomas says, this was a normal four
I six printed photo. In the timestamp on the back
(28:26):
of that print shows that it was printed at Walgreens
a one hour development, and it has the date that
this photo was developed just three days after Jeffrey says
she was trafficked to Prince Andrew in London for the
first time, So it really gives credibility to her story.
(28:48):
And Thomas also saw receipts from where she got this
photo developed from a Walgreens just a few miles from
her home in West Palm Beach. It was also taken
the photos were shown to experts who have worked at
Walgrange for years and years developing photos and they recognize
that type of paper and say that is the paper
(29:08):
that would have been used during that time. So this
photo really really gives credibility to guphrase story and the
fact that there is no way this print could have
been faked. It was not digitally manipulated.
Speaker 7 (29:24):
In this proof that.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace. Danny Pinter is joining US
Senior VP.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Director of Law Center, National Center on Sex Exploitation. Danny,
thank you for being with us. For some reason, Dane
Maxwell is doing contortions, backflips, somersaults to explain away everything,
including sex track and reminder. She was convicted of luring
(30:03):
children and molesting them, all right, so that's who she
is luring them for.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Epstein.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I can't think of any good reason that the US
Attorney General refuses.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
To release these files.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
There was just another recent hoax where files were released,
but less than three percent of the files were anything new.
They were flight logs. I mean, it's all a big line.
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I'm not letting go of it.
Speaker 19 (30:33):
Danny, me neither, Nancy. This is obviously pr for pardon.
And Gilaine Maxwell is a court proven liar. Why are
we asking her opinion on anything? Why are we listening
to her instead of the victims?
Speaker 11 (30:45):
And it's so disgusting that she calls Virginia Gufrey a
liar now that she's no longer with us. Meanwhile, Glaine
Maxwell herself settled a defamation lawsuit with Gufrey.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Why did she settle if a pair.
Speaker 7 (31:00):
Only everything she says is lies. It's honestly just discussed.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
There's more. There is one thing on which I agree
with Glen Maxwell. It's about Epstein's suicide. It was no suicide.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Was the investigation about that? Do you so you think
he was? He was? He did not die by suicide,
given all the things we just talked about.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
I do not believe he died by suicide.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Do you believe that?
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Do you have any speculation or view of who killed him?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
No?
Speaker 6 (31:34):
I don't, And I asked that because if you don't
believe that there's any truth to the allegations of blackmail,
or that he had kind of a list, or that
he had reasons to have people hate him.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Why would somebody kill him in prison?
Speaker 20 (31:57):
In prison where I am, they will kill you, or
they will pay somebody can pay a prisoner to kill you.
Four twenty five dollars worth of commissary is about the
going rate for a pit with a lot today.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Okay, she's talking past backwards again. She's saying no suicide.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm going to go to Joe Scott on that.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
But Tisa tells she's also saying, why would anybody kill him?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Now he's in jail. I mean, they'll kill you over
twenty five dollars. She just shot herself on the.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Foot because he was about to go to trial and
was in a perfect position to rat out very powerful
and wealthy people to save his own skin.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
The perfect time to kill him, not only the perfect
time to kill him.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
But, like you said, what is actually.
Speaker 15 (32:51):
Going on when you listen to this, It is literally
like she is in an episode.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Of Mad Loops.
Speaker 15 (32:58):
You're telling me down the going break for a hit
in jail.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
In twenty five dollars on the commissary.
Speaker 15 (33:04):
The fact that she is doing everything she can, like
you said, to hide the truth.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
You have these softball questions. Basically all she has to
do is she says yes or no. You said you
didn't do this, You said you didn't.
Speaker 16 (33:18):
Know, and we are sitting here watching her spin tails.
Speaker 15 (33:21):
When you listen to what she just said the recording,
you just said, she can't even believe herself. You hear
to say uh for twenty five dollars.
Speaker 16 (33:29):
I guess what little bit of shame and guilt and
self awareness came up in that moment? Was she realized
how ridiculous it is Again, like all the guests have
said and how.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
You have said a million times.
Speaker 15 (33:41):
There is no regret, there's no remorse, and at the
end of the day they're even on the government side,
which is really scary. There is no mention of the
thousands of alled victims and confirmed that she left in
her wake.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Again, I keep going.
Speaker 16 (33:58):
Back to this, why is this life being allowed in
on actual legal terms to rewrite history when we have
a whole trial proving that almost everything she says, besides
what her name is, that the only thing she told
the truth.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Is one hundred percent a lie. It's shocking and it's scary.
But at this point I'm side eyeing the government. What
is going on? What does she have on these people
joining me?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Professor forensics Jacksonville State University, death investigator with over one
thousand death investigations under his belt, author of Blood Beneath
My Fate on Amazon and star of a hit podcast
series Bodybags of Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, he absolutely
did not commit suicide.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
You believe that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I believe that doctor Michael Bodd believes that, as staying
medical examiners from across the country believe it. In a nutshell,
Why do we know he did not commit suicide.
Speaker 17 (34:55):
Because the hyoid is fractured is the biggest is the
biggest indicator for us. Rarely do you have fractured hyoids
when it comes to hanging. Okay, and here's another thing.
You see the greater horn of the highwood is fractured
right there, that bit of bone that's broken away. That's significant, Nancy.
(35:16):
And here's why the nooses and hangings generally don't go
up as high up in the neck to come in
contact with the area surrounding the hyoid. So this is
going to be superior to where the noose was actually positioned. Look,
if you don't believe me, sixty minutes, put the pictures
(35:38):
out there. Go look for yourself. He has marks on
his neck, Nancy, that run parallel to his shoulders. They
don't go up underneath his chin up to where the
hyoid acts as the anchor for the tongue. It's the
only non articulating bone in the human body.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
It's fractured.
Speaker 17 (35:57):
In addition to that, the thyrol cartilage right here you
feel where the atoms apple is on either side of it,
there's actually fracturing in the in the cartilage there. That's
significant because that means that direct pressure would have had
to have been applied here and also here above that area.
And then you've got a ligature mark that is inferior
(36:20):
to that. It runs parallel to the shoulders. With hangings,
we normally see it come to a V. This is
in forensics. This is what we call tinting feature T
E N T I N G. That means it supports
it like this, it goes up so an individual will
hang like this. That ain't happening here. It doesn't appear
that way. And I think that that I would never
(36:41):
presume to put words in Michael Biden's mouth, but just
reading the room, I think that that's probably the conclusion
he came to. Additionally, for me, something that really stands
out Nancy. At the base of his neck, on the
posterior side, where the neck dumps into the shoulder, there's
a tuision back there. It's kind of it's an irregular shape.
(37:05):
It's a bruise it got there. That's something you don't
see with hangings. Where in the world did this thing
come from? And that's an anti mortem or before death
insult that he has right here.
Speaker 8 (37:15):
Well, I think they were friendly, like people are in
social settings. I don't think they were close friends or
I certainly never witnessed the president in any of I
don't recall it ever seeing him in his house, for instance.
I actually never saw the president in any type of
massarge setting. I never witnessed the President in any inappropriate
(37:39):
setting in any way. The President was never inappropriate with
anybody in the.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
Times that I was with him.
Speaker 8 (37:45):
He was a gentleman in all respects.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Weather, for example, President Clinton never received a massage.
Speaker 7 (38:02):
I don't believe he did.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
And what makes you so you don't believe he.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
Did well, because I don't, So that's a good question.
Speaker 8 (38:12):
The time that Epstein and President Clinton spent together, the
only times I believe, well, obviously they traveled became. They
went on the plane twenty six times or of it.
That would be one journey, So.
Speaker 7 (38:25):
They spent time on the plane together.
Speaker 8 (38:26):
And I don't believe there was ever a massage on
the plane. So that would have been the only time
that I think that President Clinton could have even received
a massage, and he didn't because.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I was there.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Okay, So according to Galynne Maxwell, Trump is a gentleman
and Clinton flew on Epstein's private plane twenty six times. Okay,
you know I'm not going to decipher that right now,
because this is what I'm worried about the files release hoax.
(38:59):
I want the names of all the clients that were
lured by Epstein to mate up and more with girls
as young as twelve years old, flown and from around
the world. We were told there was going to be
a big data dump right in the last three business days.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
But what exactly was in that data dump?
Speaker 12 (39:24):
Listen Bondi delivered on a promise to turn over Epstein
files to House Oversight, who says they are working on
delivery for public release, but the committee is warning to
manage expectations. Representative Rocana claims of thousands of pages of
documents the committee received, less than three percent are never
before seen. Representative summer Le claims the only new disclosure
(39:48):
are flight log locations from two thousand to twenty fourteen,
making up fewer than one thousand pages of the documents.
The rest is apparently recycled information already.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Made pub Sidney Sumner, What is happening? Why are they
lying to us? What are they trying to cover up?
What are they trying to keep secret. That was the
campaign promise. BONDI has been promising it day after day
after day. Now they want us to just stop talking
about it. They actually said that stop talking about it.
(40:20):
So they have this huge data of the Epstein files,
but there's nothing new in there. Stuff they've already released.
Speaker 10 (40:26):
They are sticking with that release statement from July saying
they have reviewed all of the documents and everything that
can and should be made public has already been made public.
And that just really does not make sense. I think
who they're trying to protect here are all the people
(40:47):
that have been named in conjunction. So not that they've
actually done any wrongdoing, but their name came up early
in the investigation, all the way back in two thousand
and seven. Whether ever did anything with that, we don't know.
So I think that they might be protecting holes from
the investigation things that they missed. I mean, there was
(41:09):
ten years in between the first and second attempted prosecution
of Epstein, and there's no telling what he did in
between those times. At this point, one point of worry
that they are protecting themselves from things they should have
done in the original investigation that were done. So unfortunately,
(41:30):
maybe what we're seeing maybe is the extent of the file,
and there should have been more there and there isn't.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Okay, well, hold on just a moment.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
That's not true, because we were told at the beginning
about volume US videos from all of Epstein's homes and mansions,
tens and tens of thousands of documents. We've interviewed the
civil attorney for at least nine of the little girl victims.
(42:03):
Who knows of corporate clients that Epstein serviced with these
little girls? I mean, there is so much there. I'm
very curious. Dr Bethany Marshall A why the cover up?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
What could be so bad?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean, I guess they think we're gonna forget about
it and just go away. But Doctor Bethany, doesn't this
trigger more feelings of helplessness amongst the little girl victims
now adults. That's one thing that victims have told me, universally,
separated in time and space, that it wasn't just the
(42:45):
physical assault, it was the feeling of helplessness that just
would never go away.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Nancy, it's the helplessness, the guilt, the shame. But there's
one other layer to this, Nancy, that is so profound
in my mind, those girls likely have been stoked by Gylan,
by Epstein in order to procure more sex over the years.
And what tools do perpetrators use to stalk their victims.
(43:13):
They use videos, they use photos, They use all that
material that they gathered while the victim was under their roof,
so they can say, hey, little girl, you're not going
to return my call, I'll release these videos to the public. So, Nancy,
name one pedophile, one pedophile that we've covered that has
(43:34):
not videotaped, audio, taped, taken pictures of them having sex
with their victims. Name one they're not. They hold onto
those videos to stalk the victims and for masturbatory content
so that they can relivet the crime. So you cannot
tell me that there is not a treasure trove of
(43:58):
data out there. So Dylan Maxwell's statements, it's just a
word salad, That is all it is. It means nothing.
She says one thing, then she contradicts herself. I don't
even care about the log anymore. I want the photos,
I want the videos. I want all that masturbatory material
that they held on to and enjoyed for all those years,
(44:20):
so I can see the faces, not just the written
names on a plane log I want the faces and
the bodies with those girls. I want that the girl's
bodies were deacted out and those faces released to the
public so we can see for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Epstein files release. It's
a big hoax, Lies, lies, lies. Why won't Bondye release
the files? What is she hiding this? As Julain Maxwell
(00:23):
gives a statement to the Feds, it's nothing but a
pack of lies, including wait for it, that Jeffrey Epstein
couldn't sleep with adult women because of a heart condition.
This is while he is charged with sex trafficking miners.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. Now we've got the
administration telling us look the other way.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
We got orange blobs, we got a guy who looks
like you know, he supposedly killed himself.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
With orange paper towels. Please, there are probably.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hundreds of people who need Jeffrey Epstein gone for multiple reasons.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
There's so much happening in the Jeffrey Epstein case. He
is haunting us from the Great Beyond. Actually it's not
the Great Beyond. I know where he is. He's having
dinner with Satan tonight. That said, why can't we get
our miits on the Epstein files. Jelaine Maxwell, his hinch
(01:24):
person his bills above has been transferred to a cushy,
dormitory style jail. And she gives hours and hours of statements,
all of them a pack of lies. Is she trying
to curry favor, to pave the way to a pardon?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Well, speaking of her lies, I want you to hear
one right off the top. Listen.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
So there's been a lot of conversations about whether mister
Epstein can maintain, likey, a list.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Of people, like a book of of.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Famous people that he knew, like a it's called a
black book, or a.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Client list or a list. Did you know of the
existence of any such list?
Speaker 7 (02:15):
There is no list. We'll start with that. The genesis
of that story.
Speaker 8 (02:20):
I can actually trace for you from its absolute inception.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
If that is what you're interested in.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
First, you know to be sure there is no list.
There's no client list, nothing like that.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
No, there's nothing you know that.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
I'm obviously.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
During the time that you were with mister Epstein, and
even in the two thousands when you were around less frequently,
you never observed or you never saw, any sort of
list or black book or a list of individuals who.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
You know link to certain missus or anything like that.
Speaker 8 (03:01):
Absolutely, no, there is no list. There is no I'm
not aware of any blackmail. I never heard, I never
heard that, I never saw it, and I never I
never imagined it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Don't fall for that posh brit accent. There you hear
Gillai Maxwell swearing there is no client list.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
What do we mean by client list?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Jeffrey Epstein had a world wide child trafficking ring, right
He flew little girls from all over the world, Turkey, France,
the stands to an island that we know of, where
(03:51):
they were put off the plane onto a ferry and
ferried to a private island in the US Virgin Islands.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
We have jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Now, why is there a parade of twelve year old
little girls going off ferries to Epstein's mansion, which is
miles of water away from the shore. One little girl,
and it's been documented, try to swim off the island
and get back to shore, but she couldn't. So the
(04:26):
clients are the men that came to be with those children.
Now here Gilain Maxwell saying there is no such thing.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Well, guess what.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
The US Attorney General, the US Attorney General for our
whole nation says, She's got the client list right there
on her desk.
Speaker 9 (04:47):
Listen the DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey
Epstein's clients.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Will that really happen?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump. I'm going to need
to hear that again.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
That is from our friends at Fox News, our friend
John Roberts. Okay, Maxwell's saying there is no such thing,
Bonnie saying, as you're right here on my desk, people,
and we're going to release it.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, they haven't released it yet. What are they hiding?
And at the.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Core of this are little girls now adults still waiting
on justice at joining me where now it's psycho analyst
doctor Bethany Marshall, author of deal Breaker. You can see
her on Peacock and she is at Doctorbethany Marshall dot com.
You know, doctor Bethany, I have dealt with a lot
of child molestation victims, a lot of rape victims.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And yes, they grow up and if you were walking.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Down the street, you would know that they were any
different from everybody else, but they carry with them. It's
an emotional handicap. They are never the same again, much
less when their own government covers.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Up Nancy to carry around profound shame and guilt. And
when I say shame, I'm talking about a deep, underlying
feeling that they are cut off from the love of
the community, without support, without protection, and that they can
never trust again, and that there will never be reconciliation.
(06:20):
And in many ways these feelings are true, They're not
just made up. In a case like this, when when
Dylan Maxwell says there's no little black book, Okay, there's
a purple book, Okay, there's a Rolodex.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
You can't tell me there's.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Not a manifest that they had for the planes that
the Lolita expressed, didn't have a list of passengers that
went there.
Speaker 10 (06:40):
You can't tell me that.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Those billions in transfers to Russia had recipients, bank accounts,
people managing those accounts. These women who feel a shame
been cut off from love feel that way for a
reason because we as a society is still we're still
playing into this sham. This think Gilan Maxwell is telling.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know, the lies that she is spewing goes on
and on, and you know, let me go to a
veteran trial lawyer, and I know I'm not ready to
fight with you just yet.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Troyce s Layton.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
But I think you're gonna agree with me, Troy slaytnes
is as I said, a veteran trial lawyer joining us
out of LA tried a ton of cases and won
a lot of them. Troy, have you ever noticed that
when people are trying to tell a lie, I'm thinking
of defendants. You're probably gonna think of somebody else. But
and you just sit there quietly, and they look at you,
(07:34):
and then they just keep talking, and the lie gets
bigger and bigger and more and more elaborate. It's very
hard for a died in the wool liar to just
make it short and sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
They just have to elaborate, which I love. Have you
ever noticed that?
Speaker 9 (07:47):
I think even the great author Shakespeare noticed it when
he said the lady doth protest too much. Liars tend
to spin long yon burns and create even seemingly unimportant
details in order to make the lie more believable. And
(08:09):
we may have seen that in action here during Glenn
Maxwell's long interview with the Assistant Attorney General.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Now Troy Slayton. Of course, not to split hairs or
parse words, but I believe I've corrected you on this
before the quote is methinks thou death protest too much
is not just women, Troy Slayton misogynists, and that is
from Hamlet just future reference actually keep saying it incorrectly,
So I can you.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Also review my Shakespeare? You do that in the meantime,
I think.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
You're absolutely correct. They can't stop themselves. And I'm getting
back to Gilaine Maxwell. So she starts off with saying
there is no client list, what client is?
Speaker 3 (08:54):
What?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Now she goes into a lot of detail, brace yourself, Slaton.
Speaker 11 (09:00):
This.
Speaker 8 (09:00):
So the original statement that Brad Edwards makes that's in
the documents.
Speaker 7 (09:05):
And ceraneously is that it's pieces of paper that Alfredo has.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
It then morphs into something that Alfredo took a book
that Alfredo took from Epstein's computer. But there's no computer,
I know, certainly more in two thousand and five when
this was allegedly taken, that came out as a book,
and then it morphed into the civil time for my
civil cases into a book.
Speaker 7 (09:32):
That was taken from my computer, and then.
Speaker 8 (09:34):
It morphed into the some district of New York as
a combination list of minewn Epstein's that is a metamorphosis
through documents that you can trace.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
What in the world is she trying to say, joining
me crime stories, investigative reporter Sydney Sumner.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Here is Gan Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Why they move to a cushy, dormitory style jail. It's
not really even a jail, it's more like a camp.
Is she trying to cover for Trump or cover for Clinton?
I don't know, maybe neither of those, but she's definitely
trying to get a pardon. And here she's saying, there
is no client list, There is no Little Black Book.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
In other words, there are no John's. That's what we
call them on the street John's.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
So she's trying to explain the genesis of the Little
Black Book, the client list's story.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
And she's talking.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
About someone named Alfredo Rodriguez. And isn't that Epstein's butler, Yes,
of course he had a butler.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Explain what she's saying, Sidney Sumner.
Speaker 10 (10:47):
Right, So here she's saying that the purported client list
that everyone is freaking out about wants to see doesn't
really exist. But to so get Blanche up to speed
on where exactly this rumor came from, she goes all
the way back to two thousand and nine, when Epstein
(11:10):
has just been criminally investigated the first time and civil
suits are now coming out against him. So Maxwell claims
that this law firm that was a little bit shady
took on a lot of these Epstein victim civil suit cases,
and one of those attorneys was working with Epstein's butler
(11:33):
to get evidence against him. So that's where Alfredo Rodriguez
comes in. And so what they claimed, what this lawyer
claimed to be a client list was really just in
address book that the butler went through and apparently circled
or marked people who were involved in this trafficking ring.
(11:56):
So Maxwell gets through this long winded explanation.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
What's wrong with that bottom line boiling it down is
that a previous civil lawyer went through an address book,
a five hundred person address book that belaw Oops, there's
the Cuomos and the Kennedys on there. I doubt that
they were visiting Lola Island. So my point is there
(12:21):
are regular contacts in there along with who many believe
are clients, let me say in a nice way, clients.
So there's a five hundred person address book and the butler,
who knew Epstein really well, who was there day to day,
who saw who was coming and going, went through and
marked the names of the men involved in the sex
(12:44):
trafficking ring.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Okay, sounds like evidence to me.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So. First of all, Gallaine Maxwell, in her effort to
get a pardon, says there is no client list.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Let's hear what else she has to say.
Speaker 12 (12:59):
Maxwell denies every aspect of Virginia Geffray's victimization, says she
never recruited messuses. Maxwell insists Jeffrey is lying about sex
with Prince Andrew. Maxwell says Jeffrey used evidence from flight
logs to fabricate the story, saying she was busy with
her mom's eightieth birthday, her home in London was not
(13:19):
a suitable venue for royalty in Jeffray's description of her
bathroom where Prince Andrew allegedly raped her was missing unforgettable details.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
When you were just asked about the photo, you said
you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think
it was just misstated or do you think it's literally
a fig photo?
Speaker 7 (13:39):
I believe it's nearly a.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Why do you think that? Wells well, I.
Speaker 8 (13:48):
Don't remember it, okay, But the outfit I'm wearing, yeah,
is the outfit from my mom's bathtyboy.
Speaker 13 (13:58):
So but you don't have any Do you dispute that
they've met each other?
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Do you know whether they've met each other?
Speaker 7 (14:08):
I do not know that they.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Meant okay, So you not only so you think that
the photographs fic, but you also are not even possitive
they actually ever met each other.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
I know.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
So you don't have a specific recollection of.
Speaker 6 (14:22):
Kind of being at an event or a party or
your apartment, your flat London with Prince Andrew and absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
In addition to Gillian Maxwell stating there is no client list,
when Bonnie says it's right here on my desk people,
she now has disavowed everything that Virginia Giffrey said about
being abused not only.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
By Epstein but by Prince s Andrew.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Then why Tisa Tales joining me investigative reporter.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Star of Teas Tales on YouTube?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Did Prince Andrew enter into a twenty plus million dollars
settlement to shut Jeffrey up? If he's totally innocent? And hey,
I want you to hear one more thing. Hold on, Tisa,
You're going to love this. Did you hear Glame Maxwell
saying that could possibly have been a real photo because
(15:17):
that's the.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Outfit I wore to my mom's birthdate.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Well, she took a page out of Andrew's book. Remember
he said, well, that couldn't possibly be real because those
are my traveling clothes. I guess he has a different
set of clothes every day to travel. In fact, let's
listen to Prince Andrew speaking to the BBC.
Speaker 14 (15:42):
I don't believe it's a picture of me in London
because when I go out to when I go out
in London, I wear a suit and a tie. That's
what I would describe as those are my traveling clothes.
Speaker 5 (15:54):
That's me.
Speaker 14 (15:55):
But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
but I don't. I have simply no recollection of the
photograph ever being taken.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
That's where our friends at BBC and Troye Layton.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
That is exactly why defendants are told keep your yap shut,
exercise your right to the Fifth Amendment.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Because Andrew just it got worse and worse and worse.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So now he's saying those are his traveling clothes and
he would never have worn those. Two get together and
that is him, but it's not his hand. He later
says that he was there, but he doesn't recall being upstairs,
So how does he even know that is the upstairs
if he's never been to the upstairs. I mean, his
lies get worse and worse, and both he and Gulane
(16:42):
Maxwell state this couldn't be real because they've got on
the wrong clothes.
Speaker 9 (16:47):
The biggest nightmare for an attorney, either in the criminal
realm or even in the civil realm, is having their
client give interviews and multiple interviews away where they're explaining
mi new details that will always be used against them.
Everything that somebody says, whether it's in court or not,
(17:11):
if they're a party, can be used against them. It's
not hearsay when if parties to a lawsuit. And yeah,
that's why it's so important. I always recommend to my
clients that they exercise their right to remain silent and
they don't get diarrhea of the mouth like.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You may should the hay up.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yes, okay, now speaking of yes that's me, but I've
got on the wrong clothes and that's not my hand
and I've never been to that part of Glen Maxwell's
home and she's saying those are the wrong clothes. I
would never have worn that well, Andrew says, it's so
much better than I can't listen.
Speaker 14 (17:46):
The photograph is taken upstairs, and I don't think I
have a winch upstairs.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
In Glenn's hunt that from our friends at BBC OKT
SA tails I was asking you. Glaine Maxwell goes on
and on and on ad nauseum with some crazy excuse
about the butler. Okay, right there, that's getting three inches
up my tail pipe with the accent and the butler
and the this and the that.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I just can't relate to that.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
But that aside, she's claiming she never introduced Andrew to
Virginia Giffrey.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Hello Meiu's flash and nearly brought down I'm monarchy.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And there was a twenty plus million dollar settlement to
keep Virginia Giffrey quiet.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know how ill the queen must have been.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
You know, she was a very frugal lady to pay
over twenty meal because of Andrew being with a minor.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
And now, and now Elene Maxwell wants us to believe her.
Speaker 15 (18:47):
Not only does she want us to believe her, she
is literally trying to rewrite history.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
In real time.
Speaker 15 (18:53):
It's funny to me that something I can understand that
this happened twenty years ago, fifty years ago.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
This literally just had in a few years ago. It
is fresh in everyone's mind.
Speaker 15 (19:02):
This was a campaign promise, and they sat there in
the most bumbling manner, almost like there were two kids
that got caught sneaking out to go to the neighbor's party.
So you never knew him, No, I never I never
knew him. So you're saying, even the way the questions
were presented, so you never knew him, you never said
(19:23):
And like you said, Nancy, magically, she doesn't know Bill Clinton,
she doesn't. She barely knows Jeffrey Epstein, she barely knows
Prince Andrew.
Speaker 16 (19:33):
As a matter of fact, if I think Epstein was
dating Princess Diana, she literally was throwing a whole pot
of spaghetti.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Hey hey, hey, hey, hey, stop right there.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
It's one thing for Glainne Maxwell to drag Princess Diana
into this and the queen, it's another thing for you
to do it, little lady.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Now go wash your mouth. That was site.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We're not hearing anything about Princess Diane. Hey, doctor Bethany,
I gotta throw you something else. We'll let Troy Slayton
mull On this one. Glaine Maxwell also says, now, the
whole point of me showing many of her most notable lives,
there are so many, is to say that everything she's
(20:17):
saying about a client list, everything she's saying about Epstein,
not sex trafficking, that there were no clients coming to
the island, or to New York or to Florida. They're
all lies and there is a cover up. And at
the heart of it are girls as young as twelve
(20:38):
years old that were trafficked.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Bethany.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's what this is about, and we're relying on Glaine
Maxwell to tell the truth. Who's like dying to get
a pardon. She'll say anything to doctor Bethany. She also said,
wait for it, death, doctor Bethany, that she only had
sex with Epstein once and then for a really long
(21:09):
time no sex because of his heart conditions.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I don't even know where to start with that one.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Nancy, Okay, Well, first of all, try mind the mindset
of a pedophile. There are two types. There's the fixated
and there's the regressed. The fixated only ever wants children,
and then the regress will sometimes choose adults, but under
times of stress, they will gravitate towards children. Both types
Nancy are incredibly childlike. Pedophiles are children themselves. That's why
(21:44):
they are attracted to children, and that's why Andrew and
Dalen Maxwell are lying at Caisatel said it like two
little six or seven year olds who snuck out to
the party next door and now they're covering up to
their parents. They have a childlike mindset. What's scary though,
is that it's cloaked under all this money and sophistication
(22:04):
and power and network of other people. So they pass
as adults in society, but there's sexual proclivities and the
way they operate mentally are like children. And you know
what they're not mentioning, Nancy. There's no fond or concerned
or empathic recollection of the victims. If Gilan Maxwell would
just say once poor Virginia Jeffries, I can't believe you
(22:29):
know that she has gone through what she has gone through,
or God rest her soul, or I hear she's no
longer with us. You know, there's not one empathic mention
of the victims. It's as if the victims the earth.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You missed this. Dtor bethany.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
I spoke well over an hour to author Barry Levine,
who has tracked billions of dollars of epstains and interviewed
hundreds of people to figure this whole thing out. Gallaine
Maxwell actually said, Hey, I'm going to throw this to
Joe Scott Morgan. Jelaine Maxwell actually said about the girl victims,
(23:12):
they're just trash. All those girls are just trash. So
Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
I want to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 17 (23:24):
Yeah, we see this with people that are they have
serious psychopathy. Nancy, we cover these cases all the time
where you know, we have these individuals that will kill
subjects and kind of dump them off on the side
of the road. I know on body bags with my podcast,
we cover these cases incessantly where people just discard others
(23:45):
like they have no meaning. But Nancy, I want to
go back to something real quick that does have meaning.
And you'll understand where I'm going with this because you've
questioned people. In the very first audio clip of this deposition,
did you notice how well she makes a statement and
she was not prompted by counsel. She says there is
(24:06):
no blackmail list. Blackmail never came up. She's the one
that actually introduced that term into that initial conversation. And
you know, and I know that when you're speaking to
people and they have their mind in a particular area,
and I'm thinking right now, very nefarious. Blackmail list didn't
come up. So she's thinking about this and then all
(24:29):
of a sudden she verbalizes it and also this idea
of dehumanizing individuals as well. How do those two things
come together. Well, it's all about her, It's all about
him and the world that they lived in and inhabited.
And I still submit to you that she's trying to
protect him in death. She's trying to protect herself, and
(24:50):
she's trying to protect the reputation. And Lord only knows
who else is on the blackmail list, which I think
actually exists.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
When you were just asked about the photo, you said
you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think
it was just misstated or do you think it's literally
a fake photo.
Speaker 7 (25:08):
I believe it's literally a fake photo.
Speaker 5 (25:11):
Why do you think that, Well, first of all.
Speaker 7 (25:17):
I don't remember it. We'll stop, okay.
Speaker 8 (25:20):
But the outfit I'm wearing is the outfit from my
mom's birthday party.
Speaker 13 (25:27):
So but you don't have any Do you dispute that
they've met each other?
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Do you know whether they'd met each other.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I do not know that they meant okay, So you
not only so you think the photograph is fake, but
you also are not even positively actually ever met each other.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
So you don't have a specific recollection of kind of
being at an event or a party or your apartment.
Speaker 5 (25:53):
You know you're flat London with Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And why as Pam Bondi, the US Attorney General, affecting
a hoax on us, the American people. She swore these
files would be released, and now there's a political spin
on it that nobody cares that these young victims are
(26:22):
all collaborating to somehow smear the administration. They were twelve
years old when this happened. They are not in this
for politics. They have been begging for justice for years.
Glaine Maxwell, are we going to believe her? She denies
as a client list, She denies there was child sex trafficking.
(26:44):
She denies everything that Virginia Giffras said.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
And by the way, she was.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Convicted for child sex trafficking. She is denying the suicide.
She said that didn't happen. She's denying every single thing
about this case. But I want you to hear proof
that that.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Photo was real.
Speaker 18 (27:10):
Despite Elaine Maxwell's assistence the photo of her, Virginia Goufray
and Prince Andrew is a flat out fake. The Mail
on Sunday says they saw the proof it is real.
Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas took the pictures that
first ran in twenty eleven of the original printed photo
Thomas saw Walgreens received for the prints from a location
just a few miles from Gufray's West Palm Beach home,
(27:31):
and now nearly fifteen years later, Thomas realized he also
photographed the back of the print. The back of the
photo is stamped with the print date March thirteen, two
thousand and one, just three days after Goufrey was trafficked
to the Prince in London.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
To hear Virginia Giffray, she and Jeffrey Epstein saying in
the Catholic School choir together. Sidney Sumner, what is the
significance of the Mail on Sunday Photographer Michael Thomas, who
took the pictures that first ran in twenty eleven.
Speaker 10 (28:06):
Well, Thomas didn't realize that in addition to the thirty
less photos he took of the front of the original
printed photo, he also took photos of the back of
that print, and Thomas says, this was a normal four
I six printed photo. In the timestamp on the back
(28:26):
of that print shows that it was printed at Walgreens
a one hour development, and it has the date that
this photo was developed just three days after Jeffrey says
she was trafficked to Prince Andrew in London for the
first time, So it really gives credibility to her story.
(28:48):
And Thomas also saw receipts from where she got this
photo developed from a Walgreens just a few miles from
her home in West Palm Beach. It was also taken
the photos were shown to experts who have worked at
Walgrange for years and years developing photos and they recognize
that type of paper and say that is the paper
(29:08):
that would have been used during that time. So this
photo really really gives credibility to guphrase story and the
fact that there is no way this print could have
been faked. It was not digitally manipulated.
Speaker 7 (29:24):
In this proof that.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace. Danny Pinter is joining US
Senior VP.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Director of Law Center, National Center on Sex Exploitation. Danny,
thank you for being with us. For some reason, Dane
Maxwell is doing contortions, backflips, somersaults to explain away everything,
including sex track and reminder. She was convicted of luring
(30:03):
children and molesting them, all right, so that's who she
is luring them for.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Epstein.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I can't think of any good reason that the US
Attorney General refuses.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
To release these files.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
There was just another recent hoax where files were released,
but less than three percent of the files were anything new.
They were flight logs. I mean, it's all a big line.
I don't get it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I'm not letting go of it.
Speaker 19 (30:33):
Danny, me neither, Nancy. This is obviously pr for pardon.
And Gilaine Maxwell is a court proven liar. Why are
we asking her opinion on anything? Why are we listening
to her instead of the victims?
Speaker 11 (30:45):
And it's so disgusting that she calls Virginia Gufrey a
liar now that she's no longer with us. Meanwhile, Glaine
Maxwell herself settled a defamation lawsuit with Gufrey.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Why did she settle if a pair.
Speaker 7 (31:00):
Only everything she says is lies. It's honestly just discussed.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
There's more. There is one thing on which I agree
with Glen Maxwell. It's about Epstein's suicide. It was no suicide.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
Was the investigation about that? Do you so you think
he was? He was? He did not die by suicide,
given all the things we just talked about.
Speaker 7 (31:25):
I do not believe he died by suicide.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
Do you believe that?
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Do you have any speculation or view of who killed him?
Speaker 1 (31:34):
No?
Speaker 6 (31:34):
I don't, And I asked that because if you don't
believe that there's any truth to the allegations of blackmail,
or that he had kind of a list, or that
he had reasons to have people hate him.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Why would somebody kill him in prison?
Speaker 20 (31:57):
In prison where I am, they will kill you, or
they will pay somebody can pay a prisoner to kill you.
Four twenty five dollars worth of commissary is about the
going rate for a pit with a lot today.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Okay, she's talking past backwards again. She's saying no suicide.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm going to go to Joe Scott on that.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
But Tisa tells she's also saying, why would anybody kill him?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Now he's in jail. I mean, they'll kill you over
twenty five dollars. She just shot herself on the.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Foot because he was about to go to trial and
was in a perfect position to rat out very powerful
and wealthy people to save his own skin.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
The perfect time to kill him, not only the perfect
time to kill him.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
But, like you said, what is actually.
Speaker 15 (32:51):
Going on when you listen to this, It is literally
like she is in an episode.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Of Mad Loops.
Speaker 15 (32:58):
You're telling me down the going break for a hit
in jail.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
In twenty five dollars on the commissary.
Speaker 15 (33:04):
The fact that she is doing everything she can, like
you said, to hide the truth.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
You have these softball questions. Basically all she has to
do is she says yes or no. You said you
didn't do this, You said you didn't.
Speaker 16 (33:18):
Know, and we are sitting here watching her spin tails.
Speaker 15 (33:21):
When you listen to what she just said the recording,
you just said, she can't even believe herself. You hear
to say uh for twenty five dollars.
Speaker 16 (33:29):
I guess what little bit of shame and guilt and
self awareness came up in that moment? Was she realized
how ridiculous it is Again, like all the guests have
said and how.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
You have said a million times.
Speaker 15 (33:41):
There is no regret, there's no remorse, and at the
end of the day they're even on the government side,
which is really scary. There is no mention of the
thousands of alled victims and confirmed that she left in
her wake.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Again, I keep going.
Speaker 16 (33:58):
Back to this, why is this life being allowed in
on actual legal terms to rewrite history when we have
a whole trial proving that almost everything she says, besides
what her name is, that the only thing she told
the truth.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Is one hundred percent a lie. It's shocking and it's scary.
But at this point I'm side eyeing the government. What
is going on? What does she have on these people
joining me?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Professor forensics Jacksonville State University, death investigator with over one
thousand death investigations under his belt, author of Blood Beneath
My Fate on Amazon and star of a hit podcast
series Bodybags of Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, he absolutely
did not commit suicide.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
You believe that.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I believe that doctor Michael Bodd believes that, as staying
medical examiners from across the country believe it. In a nutshell,
Why do we know he did not commit suicide.
Speaker 17 (34:55):
Because the hyoid is fractured is the biggest is the
biggest indicator for us. Rarely do you have fractured hyoids
when it comes to hanging. Okay, and here's another thing.
You see the greater horn of the highwood is fractured
right there, that bit of bone that's broken away. That's significant, Nancy.
(35:16):
And here's why the nooses and hangings generally don't go
up as high up in the neck to come in
contact with the area surrounding the hyoid. So this is
going to be superior to where the noose was actually positioned. Look,
if you don't believe me, sixty minutes, put the pictures
(35:38):
out there. Go look for yourself. He has marks on
his neck, Nancy, that run parallel to his shoulders. They
don't go up underneath his chin up to where the
hyoid acts as the anchor for the tongue. It's the
only non articulating bone in the human body.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
It's fractured.
Speaker 17 (35:57):
In addition to that, the thyrol cartilage right here you
feel where the atoms apple is on either side of it,
there's actually fracturing in the in the cartilage there. That's
significant because that means that direct pressure would have had
to have been applied here and also here above that area.
And then you've got a ligature mark that is inferior
(36:20):
to that. It runs parallel to the shoulders. With hangings,
we normally see it come to a V. This is
in forensics. This is what we call tinting feature T
E N T I N G. That means it supports
it like this, it goes up so an individual will
hang like this. That ain't happening here. It doesn't appear
that way. And I think that that I would never
(36:41):
presume to put words in Michael Biden's mouth, but just
reading the room, I think that that's probably the conclusion
he came to. Additionally, for me, something that really stands
out Nancy. At the base of his neck, on the
posterior side, where the neck dumps into the shoulder, there's
a tuision back there. It's kind of it's an irregular shape.
(37:05):
It's a bruise it got there. That's something you don't
see with hangings. Where in the world did this thing
come from? And that's an anti mortem or before death
insult that he has right here.
Speaker 8 (37:15):
Well, I think they were friendly, like people are in
social settings. I don't think they were close friends or
I certainly never witnessed the president in any of I
don't recall it ever seeing him in his house, for instance.
I actually never saw the president in any type of
massarge setting. I never witnessed the President in any inappropriate
(37:39):
setting in any way. The President was never inappropriate with
anybody in the.
Speaker 7 (37:44):
Times that I was with him.
Speaker 8 (37:45):
He was a gentleman in all respects.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 5 (38:00):
Weather, for example, President Clinton never received a massage.
Speaker 7 (38:02):
I don't believe he did.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
And what makes you so you don't believe he.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
Did well, because I don't, So that's a good question.
Speaker 8 (38:12):
The time that Epstein and President Clinton spent together, the
only times I believe, well, obviously they traveled became. They
went on the plane twenty six times or of it.
That would be one journey, So.
Speaker 7 (38:25):
They spent time on the plane together.
Speaker 8 (38:26):
And I don't believe there was ever a massage on
the plane. So that would have been the only time
that I think that President Clinton could have even received
a massage, and he didn't because.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
I was there.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Okay, So according to Galynne Maxwell, Trump is a gentleman
and Clinton flew on Epstein's private plane twenty six times. Okay,
you know I'm not going to decipher that right now,
because this is what I'm worried about the files release hoax.
(38:59):
I want the names of all the clients that were
lured by Epstein to mate up and more with girls
as young as twelve years old, flown and from around
the world. We were told there was going to be
a big data dump right in the last three business days.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
But what exactly was in that data dump?
Speaker 12 (39:24):
Listen Bondi delivered on a promise to turn over Epstein
files to House Oversight, who says they are working on
delivery for public release, but the committee is warning to
manage expectations. Representative Rocana claims of thousands of pages of
documents the committee received, less than three percent are never
before seen. Representative summer Le claims the only new disclosure
(39:48):
are flight log locations from two thousand to twenty fourteen,
making up fewer than one thousand pages of the documents.
The rest is apparently recycled information already.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Made pub Sidney Sumner, What is happening? Why are they
lying to us? What are they trying to cover up?
What are they trying to keep secret. That was the
campaign promise. BONDI has been promising it day after day
after day. Now they want us to just stop talking
about it. They actually said that stop talking about it.
(40:20):
So they have this huge data of the Epstein files,
but there's nothing new in there. Stuff they've already released.
Speaker 10 (40:26):
They are sticking with that release statement from July saying
they have reviewed all of the documents and everything that
can and should be made public has already been made public.
And that just really does not make sense. I think
who they're trying to protect here are all the people
(40:47):
that have been named in conjunction. So not that they've
actually done any wrongdoing, but their name came up early
in the investigation, all the way back in two thousand
and seven. Whether ever did anything with that, we don't know.
So I think that they might be protecting holes from
the investigation things that they missed. I mean, there was
(41:09):
ten years in between the first and second attempted prosecution
of Epstein, and there's no telling what he did in
between those times. At this point, one point of worry
that they are protecting themselves from things they should have
done in the original investigation that were done. So unfortunately,
(41:30):
maybe what we're seeing maybe is the extent of the file,
and there should have been more there and there isn't.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Okay, well, hold on just a moment.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
That's not true, because we were told at the beginning
about volume US videos from all of Epstein's homes and mansions,
tens and tens of thousands of documents. We've interviewed the
civil attorney for at least nine of the little girl victims.
(42:03):
Who knows of corporate clients that Epstein serviced with these
little girls? I mean, there is so much there. I'm
very curious. Dr Bethany Marshall A why the cover up?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
What could be so bad?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean, I guess they think we're gonna forget about
it and just go away. But Doctor Bethany, doesn't this
trigger more feelings of helplessness amongst the little girl victims
now adults. That's one thing that victims have told me, universally,
separated in time and space, that it wasn't just the
(42:45):
physical assault, it was the feeling of helplessness that just
would never go away.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Nancy, it's the helplessness, the guilt, the shame. But there's
one other layer to this, Nancy, that is so profound
in my mind, those girls likely have been stoked by Gylan,
by Epstein in order to procure more sex over the years.
And what tools do perpetrators use to stalk their victims.
(43:13):
They use videos, they use photos, They use all that
material that they gathered while the victim was under their roof,
so they can say, hey, little girl, you're not going
to return my call, I'll release these videos to the public. So, Nancy,
name one pedophile, one pedophile that we've covered that has
(43:34):
not videotaped, audio, taped, taken pictures of them having sex
with their victims. Name one they're not. They hold onto
those videos to stalk the victims and for masturbatory content
so that they can relivet the crime. So you cannot
tell me that there is not a treasure trove of
(43:58):
data out there. So Dylan Maxwell's statements, it's just a
word salad, That is all it is. It means nothing.
She says one thing, then she contradicts herself. I don't
even care about the log anymore. I want the photos,
I want the videos. I want all that masturbatory material
that they held on to and enjoyed for all those years,
(44:20):
so I can see the faces, not just the written
names on a plane log I want the faces and
the bodies with those girls. I want that the girl's
bodies were deacted out and those faces released to the
public so we can see for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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