July 28, 2025 • 46 mins
Will Ghislaine Maxwell meet a similar fate as her deceased jet-setting on-and-off lover, Jeffrey Epstein, whose 2019 death was not caught on camera or the footage was not released?
Epstein was found dead with a noose around his neck in a Manhattan jail cell while facing federal charges for sex-trafficking underage girls. During Maxwell's trial, she was portrayed as a "sophisticated predator" who served as Epstein's right hand from at least 1994 to 2004.
Maxwell was found guilty of running a sex-trafficking ring of minors and is currently serving her prison sentence.
Maxwell, the disgraced British socialite, is now willing to talk, but can she be believed, and will her testimony calm the storm that's recently emerging in the Trump Administration over the handling of Epstein files? The disgraced socialite Maxwell allegedly is willing to testify before Congress about Epstein's apparent full client list.
According to published reports, President Trump's name is in the Epstein files; however, this does not mean he did anything wrong. But promising to release files and then not doing so leads some to believe there is a potential cover-up.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Eric Faddis - Partner at Varner Faddis Elite Legal, Former Felony Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense and Civil Litigation Attorney; Instagram: @e_fad @varnerfaddis; TikTok: @varnerfaddis
- Dr. Cheryl Arutt - Licensed Clinical and Forensic Psychologist specializing in Trauma Recovery, PTSD and EMDR, website: askdrcheryl.com, website: CreativeEMDR.com , IG: @askdrcheryl
- Robert Crispin -Private Investigator with “Crispin Special Investigations," Former Federal Task Force Officer for the United States Department of Justice [DEA and Miami Field Division], and Former Homicide and Crimes Against Children Investigator; Facebook: Crispin Special Investigations Inc.
- Joseph Scott Morgan -Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X @JoScottForensic
- Lauren Conlin - Podcaster/Reporter/Host- Co-Host of "PopCrimeTV" on YouTube, Website: primetimecrimeshow.com; X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram: @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV
- Sydney Sumner- CRIME STORIES Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Epstein purp.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Julaine Maxwell says, I period am period, not period suicidal?
Will she live to testify? I'm Nancy Grece, this is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Release the files.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Teens of thousands of documents related to Epstein are refusing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
To release thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of files.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
They couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too
much like a homicide.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Was it suicide or was it murder? You promised? Now deliver?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
As Julaine Maxwell meets with federal agents, is she one
step closer to testifying? Testifying to what is in the
so called Epstein files? For over a year we were
told that those files would be released everything in them.
But now Stone Walling, Now, what message does that send
(01:09):
to sex attack victims? What message does that send about
our justice system? Well, this is what Pam Bondi, the
US Attorney General, had to say.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
What you're going to see, hopefully tomorrow, is a lot
of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot of information,
but pretty sick what that man did.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
A source had told me where.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
The documents were being kept, Southern District of New York.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Shock. So we got.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Them all by, hopefully all of them Friday at eight am,
thousands of pages of documents. I have the FBI going
through them. Director Patel is going to get us a
detailed report as to why the FBI withheld all of
those documents.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
That from our friends at Fox News and now government
officials walking out, walking out, making statements like they've never
seen anything as disgusting as what is in the files
and are sick of the stone walling.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And Bondie goes on to say.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
This, the DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey
Epstein's clients.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Well, that really happen.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump. Really is it still
sitting on your desk?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Just in the past days, Bondi dumps out of a
public appearance claiming some type of an ocular tear on
her eye.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wow, what a co inky dink.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That also from our friends at Fox and there's more.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
In a statement informing the public there will be no
further releases associated with the Epstein case, FBI comments that
very little of the documents would have been made public
had Epstein gone to trial. The FBI for the claims,
their review of all documents determined there was no evidence
warranting investigation or proscution of any third parties mentioned in
the documents, and they doubled down that a rumored client
(03:04):
list never existed. The bureau also claims they found no
credible evidence that Epstein blackmailed any prominent individuals.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
The FBI Deputy Director Bongino vows to reveal the truth
in a cryptic social media post, this as he storms
out of the over the mishandling of the Epstein files.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Finally coming back. Apparently there's war over the.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Epstein files, and if there's nothing in them, why not
release them after we've been told over and over and
over that what's in those files is shocking. Now an
abrupt about face joining me in All Star panel to
makes sense of what we know right now, But straight
out to Lauren Conlin, investigative reporter co host Pop Crime TV, Lauren,
(03:52):
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
What's the latest. I'm going to get to Julane.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Maxwell in just a moment, But it's all about the files.
The whole reason I'm even saying her name because she
is a child molester. The whole reason I'm even saying
her name is because she might help in some way
get these files released. Why did FBI Deputy Director Bongino
(04:17):
storm out of his office?
Speaker 7 (04:20):
Well, Mancy, I think what's going on here is that
they are being so secretive about this that we don't
actually know the truth of what.
Speaker 8 (04:28):
Is going on internally.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
What we know is that the DOJ and the FBI
they seem to be arguing internally and kicking the can
down the road. And I think at this point the
American people have so much distrust towards this administration because
a lot of their campaign hinged on this, Oh, we're
going to get rid of the deep state. We're going
(04:51):
to show you all of the files. We're going to
be so transparent. You know, we as the American people,
we didn't necessarily ask for these files as we're.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
Doing right now the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We're going back up, back it up. That's not entirely true.
From the very beginning, I've been screaming from the rooftops
to release the files. And that question I asked you
about the FBI Deputy Directo Dan Bongino declared in the
last seventy two hours that he had made quote recent
(05:25):
discoveries about government corruption and weaponization that shocked him.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
His words, not mine to the core.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Now we've been talking about the Epstein files for a
really long time. As a matter of fact, Sidney Stary
joining me, investigative reporter with crime stories. Sidney, this goes
all the way back to Epstein's sweetheart deal that he
got in Palm Beach. Remember that, Remember that Jelaane Maxwell
(05:57):
reeling in little girls like a fly fish Truman, and
they come to his place there she is come to
his place to get molested, right, and he gets essentially
house arrest. He has a limo pick him up every
day at the jail to drive him to his place
(06:17):
or wherever he wants to go.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That was his punishment.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It all started then, screams about corruption, sweetheart deals, secrecy
goes all the way back to that Sydney summer and
then Epstein dies behind bars. And I Furior was intense
at that time to release the files.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So called client list.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
And I'm not saying that there is a quote client list,
Like you know, somebody has an address book, like you
think Epstein had a little red leather address book. With
everybody's names in it. No, it's not like that you
have to pour through all the documents. Who came to
his place, who flew on his plane, who went on
the Lolita Express, who went to his private island where
(07:02):
girls who are molested. That's what I made by a
client list. This goes way back Sydney summer, well the
way to two.
Speaker 9 (07:07):
Thousand and five. That's the first time anyone started investigating
Jeffrey Epstein, and he made that sweetheart deal that was
a slap on the risk at best, all the way
in two thousand and seven. And that's still relevant today
because Gayne Maxwell is appealing her conviction, planning that a
(07:28):
part of that two thousand and seven deal, Epstein secured
a non prosecution agreement for himself and all of his
future found co conspirators. So she believes that that deal
applied not only to Epstein in twenty nineteen, but to
her as well. And they're arguing that no one even
(07:49):
looked at Maxwell until Epstein was dead. So this is
still very very relevant today, and Epstein's victims never saw
him receive any kind of actual punishment for his behavior.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Her name has been bandied about from the very beginning.
She was prosecuted and convicted and is behind bars. She
has never revealed what she knows is now the time
that's going to occur. And the only reason we're even
bringing her up Eric Fattus, because her name is like
(08:24):
dirt in my mouth. Eric Fattas that are on trial, lawyer,
legal analyst, founding partner Varner Fattest, Elite Legal Fattus. I'm
not taking sides here. Nobody's on trial yet. What I'm
saying is we were promised the release of these files.
(08:44):
When Epstein died, be it homicide or suicide, the case
was effectively over and those files should have been released
then because there was no longer an ongoing prosecution. Julane
Maxwell is behind bars, her appeal has been turned down.
Long story short, it's over. There's no reason to keep
(09:05):
the secret. And when you have the Deputy director of
the FBI stop out of his office over the release
of these.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Files, something is very wrong. Fattest, very wrong.
Speaker 10 (09:17):
Clearly, there is some internal quarreling going on among the administration,
among cabinet officials, even regarding the release of these files.
You know, look, they talked to Big Game, they garnered
political support on the promise of transparency, and lo and behold.
You know they've admitted there's thousands and thousands of pages,
and really there's no legal impediment that I'm aware of
(09:41):
that is preventing the disclosure of these things. They can
be appropriately redacted to protect victim privacy and that kind
of thing. But the public wants to see this, and
they've been promised that, why don't we have them? That
question doesn't have an answer right now.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Now, speaking of the president, listen to this.
Speaker 11 (10:03):
You ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump? Have
you socialized with him?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, yes, sir?
Speaker 11 (10:11):
Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump? In the presence
of females under the age of eighteen?
Speaker 12 (10:24):
Though I'd like to answer that question at least today,
I'm going to have to assert by.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Fifth asker my friends ED Media's touch network. Now there
you hear Epstein answering a question, have you ever had
a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Have you ever socialized with him? Yes? Yes, sir? Okay,
that means nothing to me.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Everybody with a lot of money or political clout seemingly
socialized with Epstein. Bill Gates met with him about funding
some charity. I don't know how many times Prince Andrew Weirdo,
he was friends with him, and they've beenhotographed together, Clinton, Obama,
(11:03):
it goes on and on. So Trump's right in there.
That means nothing about Trump yet. Now the second question,
have you ever socialized with Trump in the presence of
females under the age of eighteen? He asserts his fifth
six fourteenth Amendment rights to remain silent. Now does that
mean Trump did anything wrong? No, he is as starting
(11:26):
his fifth Amendment right to remain silent, indicating that he
socialized with underage girls. So I'm still not getting Trump wrongdoing,
not seeing it. And look, I'm not a Republican, I'm
not a Democrat. Don't care, but I don't see Trump
implicated in wrongdoing here. However, the whole aspect of not
(11:52):
releasing the files, Robert Crispin is joining me now a
a Now I'm private investigator with Crispin Special Investigation, but
formerly with the Department of Justice. Okay, something stinks. I
want justice. That is not a cliche. That's real. Now,
(12:13):
so far, Trump, in my opinion, has not been implicated
in any wrongdoing. But keeping these files secret, fighting with
your deputy Director of the FBI over their release. If
there's nothing in them, why not release them?
Speaker 12 (12:30):
Crispin, Well, this is what's really important about the government
meeting with Maxwell talking about the list. I think she's
been in jail long enough, and I think she has
reached out to her lawyers and said, you know what,
I don't like it in here. It's time I want
to talk. And I think they're holding back these lists
until they finished their interview with her so they can start.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Crispin, are you saying that she has marinated behind bars
long enough to come to the realization she doesn't want
to stay there?
Speaker 13 (13:02):
Absolutely, Anyone.
Speaker 12 (13:04):
Listen, when people get arrested, especially in these types of
magnitude of cases, they don't talk. Nobody talks. But when
you're in jail and you're stripped of your dignity here
after year after year, and you potentially hold your own
ticket to get out, what do you.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Mean stripped of your dignity?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
She is having yoga classes, she's in a baby max.
I mean they have yoga classes, they have vegan.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Meals, She goes for long walks. You can see her
walking the grounds. Nobody's bothering her. What do you mean
you're still living under someone else's dignity.
Speaker 12 (13:36):
And she still she still wants to get out. She
knows at this point the only way out is to
start talking to the US government about that entire list.
What really happened. Listen, the government wanted to talk to
her back in the day when everyone got arrested, nobody talked.
She's realizing, this is my only ticket out of here.
And I have a feeling that this is why that
(13:57):
list is not getting released because I think the govern
now I was going to go talk to her, and
I believe that it's her lawyers that came forward and said, listen,
she wants to talk.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Joe Scott Morgan, you heard what Crispin said. I'm going
to get right back to his point. But Joe Scott,
I think I've got an idea about why she wants
to get from behind bars.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
She wants to live joining me.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Joseph Scott Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, and he's the star of a
hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Joe Scott, you.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And I both say that you know, if I were
a better I take Vegas odds Epstein was murdered. Now
I'm phoning out Vegas odds, but you have reasons to
think he's he was murdered. And he's what, Sidney, what
is he number four or five connected to this case
that has committed suicide or had an OD Let's see,
(14:54):
there is Epstein, of course, Virginia Geffrey, who spoke out
and got a multimillion dollar settlement after being connect with
Julaine Maxwell. You got Jean Luke Brunnelle, the French equivalent,
who supplied girls as young as twelve to Epstein.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Then you have two of them molestation victims. Do I
have that right? Sidney? Five people dead by suicide already?
Is it five?
Speaker 9 (15:20):
As far as I know?
Speaker 13 (15:21):
Nancy?
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
You know if there are thousands and thousands of victims
Joseph Scott Morgan, as the files indicate that there are.
I mean, this goes back for decades, and you get
a new little girl every week. It adds up, right,
who else may have committed suicide or died that could
have testified? Yes, she wants out, I guess. So why
(15:43):
do you think Epstein was murdered?
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Well?
Speaker 13 (15:44):
Because well, first off, the Emmy in New York made
a critical error of using the term soft hanging, which
means that you kind of slide into a noose where
you're supported. It doesn't have to be a total suspension
hangingdence that doctor Boden in particularly Scott.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You know how I feel about you, right? I love you,
I love your wife, I love your son.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Can you please speak English? Okay, we're not all death investigators.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
When you say a soft hanging, are you talking about
like Robin Williams, where you attach something to the back
of your bed or your doorknob and you lean forward
to it as opposed to a violent drop down from
a rafter and don't break your neck in the hanging.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, it is.
Speaker 13 (16:33):
Most people associate hanging with Batman, with old judicial hangings
where there's a lot of violence. That's not what they're saying. However,
the evidence bears that there was something else going on.
He's got two and I say, two thyroid fractures. And
this is a cartilaginous body. It's cartilage like in your
nose right here. So he's got two cartilage fractures right here.
(16:57):
And then if you go up on the left side.
The high ioid is very high in the neck, that's
why it generally is not fractured in a hanging. And
the left greater horn, it's kind of bird shape the
great the left greater horn is snapped off at the tip.
He's also got some other curious insults to his body,
his deltoid or right here where the neck kind of
(17:20):
dumps into the shoulder. He's got a deep tissue bruise
right here, which is not going to be associated with
the hanging. Nancy. He's also got these kind of faint
bruises that they documented on both the wrist and the ankles.
There's a lot of violence that has been associated with
his death, or evidence of it at least some kind
of trauma.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
So I guess Jeline Maxwell does want out from behind
bars before she ends up committing suicide herself. And it's
on her mind because she issued a statement that says,
I period am period, not period suicidal period. Now here's
(18:00):
what go ahead, please, I hear you taking a deep breath.
Speaker 13 (18:03):
Go no, I mean I can understand that because there,
you know, let's face it, when you're when you're in
that system, you are a ward of the state. You know,
and she knows in her mind that her counterpart in
all of these horrific crimes is now pushing up daisies.
She doesn't want it, and she's in custodian and she's
in custodial care of the same the same organization. She
(18:26):
doesn't want to wind up the same way, and maybe
that's prompting her. I have no idea, but I do
know this.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
There's the human Epstein file. She knows more than the
files can tell us. Now, all of this is happening
on the headline of every.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Online news site.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Look at it, The New York Post, the Dailymail, Drudge,
Wash Poe, you name it, Wall Street Journal, blah blah
blah blah. It's all about the Epstein files and why
won't Trump allow.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Them to be released?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, Now, with all of that going down, with the
place burning down around him.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Rome is burning. Hello, Nero, listen to this.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
How many hundreds of hours do you think the White
House and people within the White House, not just Trump
have been talking about the Epstein files and the possibility
Trump's name is in them.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Listen you let all they give me? How fight?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
No, No, She's she's given us just a very quick
briefing and in terms of the credibility of the different
things that they've seen. And I would say that, you know,
these files were made up by Komi, they were made
up by Obama. They were made up by dividing it
for you know, uh we and we went through years
of that with the Russia Russia Russia hoax, with all
(19:53):
of the different things that we had to go through.
We've gone through years of it. But she's handled it
very well and it's going to be up to her.
Whatever she thinks it's credible. She should release.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
You crime stories with Nancy Graves.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, wait a minute, do I have everything? Bass ackwurs
because I don't think I do. Lauren Colin joining me,
Investigative reporter. The Epstein files were made up by Comy
or wait that says they were made up by.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Komy and Obama and Biden.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
The Epstein files have existed long before any of.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Those players came on to the scene.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
They go all the way back to his Palm Beach
child molestation days.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Nobody made them up.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And with all of the banners at the top of
all of the news outlets about the Epstein files, you know,
Bondie's camped out in the White House in the Oval office.
But when asked, did Bondie tell you your name appears
in the filing?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
No, Well, even I know his name appears in the filing.
Explain exactly.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
Yeah, this is not a great look for Trump. I'm
not really sure why he's trying to gaslight us like this.
But look, just because your name is or is on
the files or on one of the flight logs, that
doesn't mean that you visited the island. I mean multiple
people have come out, like Robert Kennedy Junior. He said,
I've flown on on epste's jet with my wife, my
(21:32):
former wife, with.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
My That's a very good example.
Speaker 7 (21:35):
Well listen, okay, fine, let me tell you this. So
let's get a real game.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Let's go with Gates. Okay, okay, okay, Fie fan, I
don't see him being part of a cholmless station ring.
Speaker 7 (21:48):
I mean, listen, I'm not going to say that about
anybody at this point because we really don't know anything here.
But what I will say is that Trump is trying
too hard. I just interviewed Rudy You, who is a
Trump ally, told me this crazy story about how Trump
actually picked Epstein out of mar A Lago. I think
(22:08):
it was around twenty ten because he actually got complaints
from his messuses that allegedly Jeffrey Epstein was asking them
for sexual favors at the end of his massage, and
Trump said, you know what, I want nothing to do
with this sicko, and he kicked him out.
Speaker 8 (22:23):
And I'll also say this, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
You know, here's another thing. Here's another saying hold on.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I want to throw that to doctor Cheryl Eric joining
us a clinical forensic psychologists specializing in cases just like this,
doctor Cheryl. Look, from what I've been told, Trump doesn't drink,
he doesn't smoke, he doesn't do drugs. I find it
really hard to believe he would take part in child molestation.
(22:48):
Of course, you know what, we don't know that. But
the fact that his name was in the files doesn't
mean he did anything wrong. I mean, think of Bill
Gas trying to money for a charity with Epstein. That
doesn't mean he did anything wrong. But the hiding it.
I mean, remember Watergate. Okay, there was a break in,
(23:11):
but the cover up overshadowed everything else. And what it
boils down to, doctor Cheryl is the truth is other defendants,
other child molesters that need to be prosecuted. That's what
this is about. It is not about Trump, it is
not about politics. It's about Lady Justice.
Speaker 14 (23:33):
It's about the victims. It's about the victims of trafficking.
As you may know, I serve on a board of
directors of an organization called Mary's Path and it helps
pregnant teens who are victims of trafficking. And I will
tell you that these kids are some of the most traumatized,
most vulnerable crime victims of any crime victims, and they
(23:56):
really really need our protection. And we're trying to find
out what's going on. We're trying to think about them
and protect them. And the concern with Jeline Maxwell, she's
in prison for sex trafficking, for hurting so many of
these young women and building their trust and violating their trust.
(24:20):
She's already been charged with multiple counts of perjury in
the past. And what we know as psychologists is the
best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And I'm
not saying a whole lot of truth telling in her
past behavior.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
The US Attorney General promising out the Yin Yang, promising
the release of the Epstein files, and now we're being
told there's nothing in there, so we're not releasing them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
If there's nothing in there, why not release them?
Speaker 13 (24:48):
These is I cover up with epic proportions and a
lot of errors in the Justice Department.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
For the information contiding those files, who jeopardize any potential
appeal as the East lying Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
And now a big stinct in the middle of the case,
Elaine Maxwell actually meets with the Feds.
Speaker 15 (25:04):
Listen as Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche announced as a
meeting with Gilleene Maxwell to gather more information on Jeffrey
Epstein and his alleged clients. The House Oversight Committee also
announces plans to subpoena Maxwell. Representative James Comer, the committee chair,
makes it clear that Maxwell will not be receiving any
kind of pardon or immunity in exchange for her testimony.
(25:27):
The Jailhouse deposition has been tentatively scheduled for August eleventh.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
They want to know if Maxwell wants to talk, what
she has to say, So that's why yesterday my committee
moved to make a motion to issue subpoena if she's
wanting a pardon or any type of immunity. That's off
the table.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
From our friends at CNN. Okay, she's talking, She is talking.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
She had a very long meeting and she went back
into her facility, her cio, with a huge box obviously
containing documents. Reportedly she had on handcuffs so tight during
that meeting with the Feds that her wrists were red
when she came out of the meeting. Lauren Colin joining us, Lauren,
(26:16):
what do you know?
Speaker 8 (26:17):
Delay Maxwell?
Speaker 7 (26:18):
On July twenty fourth and July twenty fifth, she met
with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche at her Tallahassee prison
and it lasted for about two days, and she had
a box with her when she went back to prison
that there was photographs taken.
Speaker 8 (26:37):
Everybody was wondering what was in this box.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
And apparently her handcuffs were on extremely tight Nancy. So
we hopefully will find out what was said during this meeting.
We are not sure yet.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Now I'm thinking about what doctor Cheryl Eric just said
to Eric fattis joining us. Feneran trial lawyer, following up
also on what Lauren Colins said. She'll say anything to
get out, to get out from behind bars. But whatever
she says will very likely be corroborated. So I'm trying
(27:10):
to figure out what you think about her talking for
hours and hours and hours from behind bars. It's got
to be about the Epstein files, obviously, but I would
imagine the first thing she did was try to hammer
out a deal for herself totally.
Speaker 10 (27:26):
I mean, you know, look, we know that she's not
doing this out of the goodness of her heart, right,
she has got an incentive. She's behind bars in a
box for twenty years, and so you know, my question too,
is is how did this conversation go? You know, she's
asked a bunch of leading questions like hey, was this
person involved? She might feel, hey, they want me to
(27:47):
say that, so I'm just going to agree to it.
There are certainly credibility issues, but like you said, it
can be cross checked against documents in other investigations.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That ability issues, that's a that's putting it mildly, that's
putting perfume on the pig.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Julayne Maxwell. Credibility issues.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You know, I want you to hear what the late
Virginia's you'frey had to say about Julaine Maxwell.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
The late Virginia Gufray, a former Epstein sex slave, always
pointed to Maxwell as the cruler of the couple. Goufrey
called Maxwell vicious, evil and the geppetto to Epstein's Pinocchio.
Maxwell was heavily criticized for playing dumb in a twenty
sixteen deposition asking the deposer to explain a sex toy
to her. At one point in the interview. Maxwell also
(28:36):
publicly denied that Gufrey ever met Prince Andrew, despite sending
next to her with the royal and heavily circulated photos.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You know what, Robert.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Crispin, a couple of people here on the set actually
broke a smile when the issue regarding Julainne Maxwell playing
dumb and not being forthcoming under oath in a depot
asking the questioner to explain what is a sex toy? Crispin, obviously,
(29:05):
people that Craig a smile at Juline Maxwell being clever
and witty have never seen a sex trafficking victim.
Speaker 12 (29:13):
I just think that Elaine Maxwell is obviously a piece
of garbage, and when I react to her testimony, I'm
reacting to she's such a liar. I hope these guys
aren't falling for any of this, and this entire meeting
that's going on with the US Attorney's Office last week.
(29:33):
Trust me, when they talked to her, they said, we
will walk out in the first lie or deception that
we feel. So moving forward, every single question we ask
you must be the truth. Trust me. That has been
reiterated to her from the government officials as well as
her lawyers. Elaine wants out, Elaine wants to live. It's
(29:57):
go time. And I guarantee you she's given the government
some bombshell information. And I think that's why this list
has not come out, because now they have to go
back and decipher every single thing that she said. This
meeting wasn't just to go talk about the case. This
was a very pointed, direct and factual obtaining mission by
(30:19):
the US Attorney's Office.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Crispin.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Have you ever had to do something in the pursuit
of the truth, in the pursuit of justice that turned
your stomach? For instance, put somebody on the stand of
questionable character. Let me just put it mildly, because you
needed the testimony. I call it going to hell to
(30:54):
get the witness to put the devil in jail. I
feel like I'm eating a dirt sandwich by even entertaining
any kind of a deal for Jelainne Maxwell. As a
matter of fact, we heard what Virginia's fright now dead
by suicide had to say about Jelainne Maxwell. Well, another victim,
(31:15):
Teresa Helm, says something similar.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Listen.
Speaker 15 (31:19):
Victim Teresa Helm echoes other's concern that Maxwell will not
provide any more truth on the situation. Helm describes Maxwell
as crafty and extremely articulate. Helm worries Maxwell will walk
away from these meetings with the sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Deal and the public will be left wanting.
Speaker 15 (31:36):
Helm says if Maxwell negotiates anything like Epstein's two thousand
and seven slap on the wrist, it would be a
tragic day for those who survived her horrific abuse.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Promise after promise after promise, the confusion around suicide, the homicide,
the edited video.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
They said that he was found dead from an apparent suicide.
Speaker 10 (31:57):
There are more than eleven thousand documents that have not
been released to the publics around this child at sex
trafficking ring.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Why would they have lied about that?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Federal officials tell us that what's in those files is
quote shocking, disgusting, or sending anything they've seen before.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
That's bad.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
That's bad for a politician who's seen it all and
likely done it all to say the files are that contemptuous.
Julaine Maxwell maybe the key to the client list, as
we call it euphemistically, young girls that were lured by
(32:44):
Julaine Maxwell says she is sinister, that she's worse than
Epstein himself. The federal government also calls her quote crafty listen.
Speaker 16 (32:58):
Federal prosecutors wrote in Glene Maxwell's sentencing memorandum that the
socialite displayed a significant pattern of dishonest conduct. They noted
several instances of Maxwell lying under oath. In twenty twenty one,
Maxwell told the court, I have committed no crime, which
was demonstrably false. In a twenty sixteen deposition, Maxwell Clayton
(33:18):
she never gave victim Annie Farmer a massage, but Farmer's
testimony at trial established that as a lie. Maxwell also
lied about her assets while applying for bail. Prosecutors wrote,
in short, the defendant decides when she wishes to disclose
facts to the court, and those facts shift when it
serves the defendant's interests.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I mean, the reality is, who do you think Epsen's
hanging around with nouns and priests of vergence. No, he's
with Julanne Maxwell. She is a child molester, and she's convicted.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And she is a liar.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So far her appeals have been turned down. Now she's
trying to get the Supremes on her case. Lauren Colin,
You've done extensive interviews and research.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
What more can you tell us?
Speaker 7 (33:59):
Yes, So, I actually interviewed her Appellet team, or part
of her Appellet team, in February of twenty twenty five,
right when Pam Bondy was supposed to roll out Phase
one of these files. So I'm talking to Arthur Idalla
and he actually tells me that Glaine said to him
about Jeffrey Epstein and his alleged quote unquote suicide, that
(34:20):
Jeffrey Epstein would not have the balls excuse my language,
to kill himself. I found that incredibly interesting. But at
the same time, Nancy, Arthur also seemed to gaslight me
a little bit in this interview, and I've clipped it.
You can find this very easily where he says to me, Lauren,
I just don't think that Glaine has this power.
Speaker 8 (34:41):
That you think that she has.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
And that was a slap to me, because look, we're
all talking about it, Nancy, she does. And something you
just said, when you talk about these files and you've
heard that they are quote shocking, disgusting, I mean, you
are visibly horrified.
Speaker 8 (34:58):
Right When Pam Bondy did her little media tore.
Speaker 7 (35:01):
About this, all she said about these files were Oh,
it's pretty sick, They're pretty sick. That didn't sit right
with me. That to me was very that was very telling.
She hasn't read the files. She doesn't even know what's
on these files. And so again this just goes back
to us being lied to, the American people being lied to.
(35:21):
I don't know who to trust at this point. You know,
as you've said, Delane, she's been charged in twenty twenty
multiple counts of perjury. So why are we supposed to
believe her now?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
What I have learned in the course of our properly
predicated and necessary investigations into these aforementioned matters she's talking about,
Epstein has quote shot me down to my core. Mangino
said that on X he goes on to state, we
cannot run a republic like this. I'll never be the
(35:53):
same after learning what I have learned. Okay, I mean,
what does he have to do take out a billboard
on Third Avenue for anybody to pay attention. This guy, again,
has not been marinated in the power of the White House.
He just got in as deputy director of the FBI,
(36:15):
and he says he cannot forget what he's seen, that
he is quote shot to the core. What is in
the files?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Back to you, Joe Scott, Morgan joining us.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I want to circle back, Joe Scott to the fact
that you and I and many many others believe that
Epstein was murdered. His brother believes it, people that knew
him believes it. In all this business about Julanne Maxwell's
defense lawyer saying, oh, she doesn't know anything. Of course
he's going to say something like that. What do you
expect He's paid to say things like that. But Joe Scott,
(36:51):
when you look at the brutality of Epstein's death, those
deep furrows in his neck, bottom line, she better come
up with some.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Truth, a big truth bomb in a hurry. Yeah, that's my.
Speaker 13 (37:05):
Biggest piece to this that I don't know. It's so
glaringly obvious. You can see it actually on the CBS report.
Those marks on his neck, Nancy, The biggest tell for
me as an old death investigator is the fact that
they run parallel to his shoulders. There's not the tinting
feature of the classic tinting feature where you have with
(37:26):
a hanging these marks on his neck, and I urge
everybody just to look at these. It's very simple to
see they run backwards like this instead of going to
an apex behind his head. That is what we would
call a typical I mean, what did he do, lay down,
face down on the floor with a noose around his
(37:46):
neck in order to draw, in order to draw the
thing around his neck and choke the life out of him.
I just don't see it happening. You cannot sell this
to me, no matter how hard you try. I am
not believe in it.
Speaker 15 (38:00):
After her hours long meeting with Deputy US Attorney General
Todd Blanche Galene, Maxwell returns to the FCI Tallahassee, clad
and brown prison clothes and handcuffed in the front. But
when she goes through the gates, an officer follows behind
her with a mysterious box. Once Maxwell is freed from
the cuffs, she carries the bin inside. It's unclear what
(38:21):
its contents are.
Speaker 8 (38:27):
Founded pointed in.
Speaker 14 (38:30):
You guys, I want to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
What I do want to say is that DoD is
a great attorney. But you ought to be speaking about
Larry Sombry's.
Speaker 16 (38:37):
You ought to be speaking about some.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Of his friends that are.
Speaker 9 (38:42):
Edge fun guys.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
They're all over the place.
Speaker 8 (38:44):
You ought to be.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Speaking about Bill Lynton, who went to the island twenty
eight times. I never went to the island.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about them. I'd love to.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Now, just recently, Sidney Sumner, you were with me when
this happened. Sidney Sumner, Crime Stories investigative reporter, the attorney
for nine and counting of victims of Epstein's child wanns
station victims, said that point blank he can't give the
names because of attorney client privilege.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
He has to hold those names in.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
But he said that there are many many corporate clients
John's of Epstein's that had sex with underage girls.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's statutory rape. He said that.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And now we hear Trump stating you ought to be
talking about Larry Summers. You ought to be talking about
some of his friends that are hedge fund guys. They
kind of fits in with what the victims lawyer said,
you ought to be talking about Bill Clinton, who went
to the island twenty eight times.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Why was he at the island?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Leda island twenty eight times? Trump says, I never went
to the island, And you know what, I believe him.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I don't think he ever went to the island.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
But if his name is in those files, he's gonna
have I have to answer up. And doesn't preclude Larry Summers,
the Hedge find guys, or Bill Clinton from answering up.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
They're not mutually exclusive, said Nate.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Remember when the victim's lawyer referred to all those corporate
clients of Epstein's.
Speaker 9 (40:17):
Yes, Nancy, and therein lies the problem is that you
hear all of these Well, Bill Clinton has been to
the island twenty eight times. Okay, where is that information
coming from? Exactly how do you have proof of that?
And how do we get proof of that. We need
to know exactly who was there and when. And it really,
(40:39):
at the end of the day, it isn't the public's business,
but you've made it the public's business because you've promised transparency.
You've promised that we're going to see how the investigation unfolded,
and why there isn't enough evidence to prove that anyone
else was involved in this, because those are the types
of comments that make the public feel like other people
(41:02):
should be prosecuted. So we're questioning, why aren't other people
having to take responsibility for their participation in this child
sex trafficking ring? But you casually throw out, oh, this
person wasn't involved. You can't have both. It's a double
edged sword. So it's really coming back and biting the
(41:23):
White House and the butt and they are just all
over this issue on opposite sides. Just ten days before
Todd Blanche arranged this meeting with Guwayne Maxwell, the DOJ
formally opposed for appeal to the Supreme Court. They told
the Supreme Court, hey, don't listen to this. This isn't valid.
(41:44):
She needs to remain behind bars, right where she is.
But now they want her to spill her guts on
everything she knows.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I see what you're saying, But again, those two are
not mutually exclusive. Her appeal has no merit, and I'll
tell you why. She doesn't have a leg to stand on.
She's trying to say that she was governed by Epstein's
plea deal in Palm Beach decades ago. No, I can't
take a guilty please from you, Sydney, and then you
(42:16):
give immunity, but out of your deal to Robert Crispin.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
That has to be done through Crispin. See what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
So Epstein's prosecutors didn't have the power to say we're
never going to prosecute anybody else in connection to this case. Ever,
they could do that for him for Epstein, but that
type of blanket immunity to govern decades in the future, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
A big no.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
So I agree with the FEDS that that appeal has
no merit. At the same time, the FEDS want to
talk to her about the Epstein files. But I see
what you're saying is duplicatus to It's like one hand
doesn't know what the other hand is doing. I hear you,
Lauren Conlin. I'm where does it end? Because when I
(43:06):
hear the deputy director of the FBI say this is
no way to run a republic. We cannot run a
republic like this quote, I'll never be the.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Same after learning what I've learned. Yes, I agree, this is.
Speaker 7 (43:23):
Very tough, and I think I just go back to
you know, I side with you when it comes to
Dan Bongino. He is not a career politician, but Nancy,
he was very much on board with this narrative that
Pam Bondi put out. He was tweeting it out, He
and Cash Mattel were echoing the same thing. They were
all on the same page. And then the reaction from
(43:44):
his fellow Republicans, from the American people, you know, he
saw that, and then all of a sudden he backpedaled.
And at the beginning of all this back in February,
there was also some blame on James Denihy and the FBI,
which is again why I go back to the whole,
Like the dj and the FBI seemed to be taking
the can down the road. But I agree with Sidney Sumner,
(44:05):
this is a double edged sword here.
Speaker 12 (44:07):
The lead has been treated unfairly for over five years now.
Speaker 13 (44:11):
If you looked up the.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Scapegoat in the dictionary, her face.
Speaker 12 (44:14):
Would be next to the definition, next to the Dictionary
definition of it.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
She's telling the streets. She's got no reason to lie
at this point, and she's going to keep telling the truths.
Speaker 13 (44:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
That's all we have today. What is he saying that's
for our friends at the teleha see Democrat of course,
exclaimed Maxwell's defense lawyer, saying, look, she's been treating and fairly.
She's child in lester for decades and decades and decades.
If you look up scapegoat in the dictionary, her face
would be next to it. Okay, she may be a
(44:42):
scapegoat because everybody was angry Epstein didn't go to trial.
That doesn't mean she's innocent. What hangs in the balance justice,
What hangs in the balance the truth, All politics aside truth.
That's what we're asking for. That's what we're asking for, Bondie,
(45:07):
you promised, now deliver What if anything will become of
hours and hours and hours in a room with Gleainne Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Will we ever get justice?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Or because rich and powerful defendants may be involved, will
it all just be swept under the rug like we're
gonna forget it?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
We're not.
Speaker 17 (45:36):
We remember an American hero Deputy Sheriff Alejandro Martinez, La
County Sheriff, just twenty seven, killed in a line of duty,
survived by father, our tiro American hero Deputy Sheriff Alejandro Martinez.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend
Speaker 15 (46:00):
Y
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Epstein purp.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Julaine Maxwell says, I period am period, not period suicidal?
Will she live to testify? I'm Nancy Grece, this is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Release the files.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Teens of thousands of documents related to Epstein are refusing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
To release thousands and thousands and thousands of pages of files.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
They couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too
much like a homicide.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Was it suicide or was it murder? You promised? Now deliver?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
As Julaine Maxwell meets with federal agents, is she one
step closer to testifying? Testifying to what is in the
so called Epstein files? For over a year we were
told that those files would be released everything in them.
But now Stone Walling, Now, what message does that send
(01:09):
to sex attack victims? What message does that send about
our justice system? Well, this is what Pam Bondi, the
US Attorney General, had to say.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
What you're going to see, hopefully tomorrow, is a lot
of flight logs, a lot of names, a lot of information,
but pretty sick what that man did.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
A source had told me where.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
The documents were being kept, Southern District of New York.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Shock. So we got.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Them all by, hopefully all of them Friday at eight am,
thousands of pages of documents. I have the FBI going
through them. Director Patel is going to get us a
detailed report as to why the FBI withheld all of
those documents.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
That from our friends at Fox News and now government
officials walking out, walking out, making statements like they've never
seen anything as disgusting as what is in the files
and are sick of the stone walling.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And Bondie goes on to say.
Speaker 6 (02:12):
This, the DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey
Epstein's clients.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Well, that really happen.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump. Really is it still
sitting on your desk?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Just in the past days, Bondi dumps out of a
public appearance claiming some type of an ocular tear on
her eye.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wow, what a co inky dink.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That also from our friends at Fox and there's more.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
In a statement informing the public there will be no
further releases associated with the Epstein case, FBI comments that
very little of the documents would have been made public
had Epstein gone to trial. The FBI for the claims,
their review of all documents determined there was no evidence
warranting investigation or proscution of any third parties mentioned in
the documents, and they doubled down that a rumored client
(03:04):
list never existed. The bureau also claims they found no
credible evidence that Epstein blackmailed any prominent individuals.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
The FBI Deputy Director Bongino vows to reveal the truth
in a cryptic social media post, this as he storms
out of the over the mishandling of the Epstein files.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Finally coming back. Apparently there's war over the.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Epstein files, and if there's nothing in them, why not
release them after we've been told over and over and
over that what's in those files is shocking. Now an
abrupt about face joining me in All Star panel to
makes sense of what we know right now, But straight
out to Lauren Conlin, investigative reporter co host Pop Crime TV, Lauren,
(03:52):
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
What's the latest. I'm going to get to Julane.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Maxwell in just a moment, But it's all about the files.
The whole reason I'm even saying her name because she
is a child molester. The whole reason I'm even saying
her name is because she might help in some way
get these files released. Why did FBI Deputy Director Bongino
(04:17):
storm out of his office?
Speaker 7 (04:20):
Well, Mancy, I think what's going on here is that
they are being so secretive about this that we don't
actually know the truth of what.
Speaker 8 (04:28):
Is going on internally.
Speaker 7 (04:30):
What we know is that the DOJ and the FBI
they seem to be arguing internally and kicking the can
down the road. And I think at this point the
American people have so much distrust towards this administration because
a lot of their campaign hinged on this, Oh, we're
going to get rid of the deep state. We're going
(04:51):
to show you all of the files. We're going to
be so transparent. You know, we as the American people,
we didn't necessarily ask for these files as we're.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
Doing right now the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
We're going back up, back it up. That's not entirely true.
From the very beginning, I've been screaming from the rooftops
to release the files. And that question I asked you
about the FBI Deputy Directo Dan Bongino declared in the
last seventy two hours that he had made quote recent
(05:25):
discoveries about government corruption and weaponization that shocked him.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
His words, not mine to the core.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Now we've been talking about the Epstein files for a
really long time. As a matter of fact, Sidney Stary
joining me, investigative reporter with crime stories. Sidney, this goes
all the way back to Epstein's sweetheart deal that he
got in Palm Beach. Remember that, Remember that Jelaane Maxwell
(05:57):
reeling in little girls like a fly fish Truman, and
they come to his place there she is come to
his place to get molested, right, and he gets essentially
house arrest. He has a limo pick him up every
day at the jail to drive him to his place
(06:17):
or wherever he wants to go.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That was his punishment.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
It all started then, screams about corruption, sweetheart deals, secrecy
goes all the way back to that Sydney summer and
then Epstein dies behind bars. And I Furior was intense
at that time to release the files.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So called client list.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
And I'm not saying that there is a quote client list,
Like you know, somebody has an address book, like you
think Epstein had a little red leather address book. With
everybody's names in it. No, it's not like that you
have to pour through all the documents. Who came to
his place, who flew on his plane, who went on
the Lolita Express, who went to his private island where
(07:02):
girls who are molested. That's what I made by a
client list. This goes way back Sydney summer, well the
way to two.
Speaker 9 (07:07):
Thousand and five. That's the first time anyone started investigating
Jeffrey Epstein, and he made that sweetheart deal that was
a slap on the risk at best, all the way
in two thousand and seven. And that's still relevant today
because Gayne Maxwell is appealing her conviction, planning that a
(07:28):
part of that two thousand and seven deal, Epstein secured
a non prosecution agreement for himself and all of his
future found co conspirators. So she believes that that deal
applied not only to Epstein in twenty nineteen, but to
her as well. And they're arguing that no one even
(07:49):
looked at Maxwell until Epstein was dead. So this is
still very very relevant today, and Epstein's victims never saw
him receive any kind of actual punishment for his behavior.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Her name has been bandied about from the very beginning.
She was prosecuted and convicted and is behind bars. She
has never revealed what she knows is now the time
that's going to occur. And the only reason we're even
bringing her up Eric Fattus, because her name is like
(08:24):
dirt in my mouth. Eric Fattas that are on trial, lawyer,
legal analyst, founding partner Varner Fattest, Elite Legal Fattus. I'm
not taking sides here. Nobody's on trial yet. What I'm
saying is we were promised the release of these files.
(08:44):
When Epstein died, be it homicide or suicide, the case
was effectively over and those files should have been released
then because there was no longer an ongoing prosecution. Julane
Maxwell is behind bars, her appeal has been turned down.
Long story short, it's over. There's no reason to keep
(09:05):
the secret. And when you have the Deputy director of
the FBI stop out of his office over the release
of these.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Files, something is very wrong. Fattest, very wrong.
Speaker 10 (09:17):
Clearly, there is some internal quarreling going on among the administration,
among cabinet officials, even regarding the release of these files.
You know, look, they talked to Big Game, they garnered
political support on the promise of transparency, and lo and behold.
You know they've admitted there's thousands and thousands of pages,
and really there's no legal impediment that I'm aware of
(09:41):
that is preventing the disclosure of these things. They can
be appropriately redacted to protect victim privacy and that kind
of thing. But the public wants to see this, and
they've been promised that, why don't we have them? That
question doesn't have an answer right now.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Now, speaking of the president, listen to this.
Speaker 11 (10:03):
You ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump? Have
you socialized with him?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes, yes, sir?
Speaker 11 (10:11):
Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump? In the presence
of females under the age of eighteen?
Speaker 12 (10:24):
Though I'd like to answer that question at least today,
I'm going to have to assert by.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Fifth asker my friends ED Media's touch network. Now there
you hear Epstein answering a question, have you ever had
a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Have you ever socialized with him? Yes? Yes, sir? Okay,
that means nothing to me.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Everybody with a lot of money or political clout seemingly
socialized with Epstein. Bill Gates met with him about funding
some charity. I don't know how many times Prince Andrew Weirdo,
he was friends with him, and they've beenhotographed together, Clinton, Obama,
(11:03):
it goes on and on. So Trump's right in there.
That means nothing about Trump yet. Now the second question,
have you ever socialized with Trump in the presence of
females under the age of eighteen? He asserts his fifth
six fourteenth Amendment rights to remain silent. Now does that
mean Trump did anything wrong? No, he is as starting
(11:26):
his fifth Amendment right to remain silent, indicating that he
socialized with underage girls. So I'm still not getting Trump wrongdoing,
not seeing it. And look, I'm not a Republican, I'm
not a Democrat. Don't care, but I don't see Trump
implicated in wrongdoing here. However, the whole aspect of not
(11:52):
releasing the files, Robert Crispin is joining me now a
a Now I'm private investigator with Crispin Special Investigation, but
formerly with the Department of Justice. Okay, something stinks. I
want justice. That is not a cliche. That's real. Now,
(12:13):
so far, Trump, in my opinion, has not been implicated
in any wrongdoing. But keeping these files secret, fighting with
your deputy Director of the FBI over their release. If
there's nothing in them, why not release them?
Speaker 12 (12:30):
Crispin, Well, this is what's really important about the government
meeting with Maxwell talking about the list. I think she's
been in jail long enough, and I think she has
reached out to her lawyers and said, you know what,
I don't like it in here. It's time I want
to talk. And I think they're holding back these lists
until they finished their interview with her so they can start.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Crispin, are you saying that she has marinated behind bars
long enough to come to the realization she doesn't want
to stay there?
Speaker 13 (13:02):
Absolutely, Anyone.
Speaker 12 (13:04):
Listen, when people get arrested, especially in these types of
magnitude of cases, they don't talk. Nobody talks. But when
you're in jail and you're stripped of your dignity here
after year after year, and you potentially hold your own
ticket to get out, what do you.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Mean stripped of your dignity?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
She is having yoga classes, she's in a baby max.
I mean they have yoga classes, they have vegan.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Meals, She goes for long walks. You can see her
walking the grounds. Nobody's bothering her. What do you mean
you're still living under someone else's dignity.
Speaker 12 (13:36):
And she still she still wants to get out. She
knows at this point the only way out is to
start talking to the US government about that entire list.
What really happened. Listen, the government wanted to talk to
her back in the day when everyone got arrested, nobody talked.
She's realizing, this is my only ticket out of here.
And I have a feeling that this is why that
(13:57):
list is not getting released because I think the govern
now I was going to go talk to her, and
I believe that it's her lawyers that came forward and said, listen,
she wants to talk.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Joe Scott Morgan, you heard what Crispin said. I'm going
to get right back to his point. But Joe Scott,
I think I've got an idea about why she wants
to get from behind bars.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
She wants to live joining me.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Joseph Scott Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, and he's the star of a
hit podcast, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Joe Scott, you.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And I both say that you know, if I were
a better I take Vegas odds Epstein was murdered. Now
I'm phoning out Vegas odds, but you have reasons to
think he's he was murdered. And he's what, Sidney, what
is he number four or five connected to this case
that has committed suicide or had an OD Let's see,
(14:54):
there is Epstein, of course, Virginia Geffrey, who spoke out
and got a multimillion dollar settlement after being connect with
Julaine Maxwell. You got Jean Luke Brunnelle, the French equivalent,
who supplied girls as young as twelve to Epstein.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Then you have two of them molestation victims. Do I
have that right? Sidney? Five people dead by suicide already?
Is it five?
Speaker 9 (15:20):
As far as I know?
Speaker 13 (15:21):
Nancy?
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
You know if there are thousands and thousands of victims
Joseph Scott Morgan, as the files indicate that there are.
I mean, this goes back for decades, and you get
a new little girl every week. It adds up, right,
who else may have committed suicide or died that could
have testified? Yes, she wants out, I guess. So why
(15:43):
do you think Epstein was murdered?
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Well?
Speaker 13 (15:44):
Because well, first off, the Emmy in New York made
a critical error of using the term soft hanging, which
means that you kind of slide into a noose where
you're supported. It doesn't have to be a total suspension
hangingdence that doctor Boden in particularly Scott.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
You know how I feel about you, right? I love you,
I love your wife, I love your son.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Can you please speak English? Okay, we're not all death investigators.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
When you say a soft hanging, are you talking about
like Robin Williams, where you attach something to the back
of your bed or your doorknob and you lean forward
to it as opposed to a violent drop down from
a rafter and don't break your neck in the hanging.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, it is.
Speaker 13 (16:33):
Most people associate hanging with Batman, with old judicial hangings
where there's a lot of violence. That's not what they're saying. However,
the evidence bears that there was something else going on.
He's got two and I say, two thyroid fractures. And
this is a cartilaginous body. It's cartilage like in your
nose right here. So he's got two cartilage fractures right here.
(16:57):
And then if you go up on the left side.
The high ioid is very high in the neck, that's
why it generally is not fractured in a hanging. And
the left greater horn, it's kind of bird shape the
great the left greater horn is snapped off at the tip.
He's also got some other curious insults to his body,
his deltoid or right here where the neck kind of
(17:20):
dumps into the shoulder. He's got a deep tissue bruise
right here, which is not going to be associated with
the hanging. Nancy. He's also got these kind of faint
bruises that they documented on both the wrist and the ankles.
There's a lot of violence that has been associated with
his death, or evidence of it at least some kind
of trauma.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
So I guess Jeline Maxwell does want out from behind
bars before she ends up committing suicide herself. And it's
on her mind because she issued a statement that says,
I period am period, not period suicidal period. Now here's
(18:00):
what go ahead, please, I hear you taking a deep breath.
Speaker 13 (18:03):
Go no, I mean I can understand that because there,
you know, let's face it, when you're when you're in
that system, you are a ward of the state. You know,
and she knows in her mind that her counterpart in
all of these horrific crimes is now pushing up daisies.
She doesn't want it, and she's in custodian and she's
in custodial care of the same the same organization. She
(18:26):
doesn't want to wind up the same way, and maybe
that's prompting her. I have no idea, but I do
know this.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
There's the human Epstein file. She knows more than the
files can tell us. Now, all of this is happening
on the headline of every.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Online news site.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Look at it, The New York Post, the Dailymail, Drudge,
Wash Poe, you name it, Wall Street Journal, blah blah
blah blah. It's all about the Epstein files and why
won't Trump allow.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Them to be released?
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, Now, with all of that going down, with the
place burning down around him.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Rome is burning. Hello, Nero, listen to this.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
How many hundreds of hours do you think the White
House and people within the White House, not just Trump
have been talking about the Epstein files and the possibility
Trump's name is in them.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Listen you let all they give me? How fight?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
No, No, She's she's given us just a very quick
briefing and in terms of the credibility of the different
things that they've seen. And I would say that, you know,
these files were made up by Komi, they were made
up by Obama. They were made up by dividing it
for you know, uh we and we went through years
of that with the Russia Russia Russia hoax, with all
(19:53):
of the different things that we had to go through.
We've gone through years of it. But she's handled it
very well and it's going to be up to her.
Whatever she thinks it's credible. She should release.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
You crime stories with Nancy Graves.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Okay, wait a minute, do I have everything? Bass ackwurs
because I don't think I do. Lauren Colin joining me,
Investigative reporter. The Epstein files were made up by Comy
or wait that says they were made up by.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Komy and Obama and Biden.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
The Epstein files have existed long before any of.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Those players came on to the scene.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
They go all the way back to his Palm Beach
child molestation days.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Nobody made them up.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And with all of the banners at the top of
all of the news outlets about the Epstein files, you know,
Bondie's camped out in the White House in the Oval office.
But when asked, did Bondie tell you your name appears
in the filing?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
No, Well, even I know his name appears in the filing.
Explain exactly.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
Yeah, this is not a great look for Trump. I'm
not really sure why he's trying to gaslight us like this.
But look, just because your name is or is on
the files or on one of the flight logs, that
doesn't mean that you visited the island. I mean multiple
people have come out, like Robert Kennedy Junior. He said,
I've flown on on epste's jet with my wife, my
(21:32):
former wife, with.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
My That's a very good example.
Speaker 7 (21:35):
Well listen, okay, fine, let me tell you this. So
let's get a real game.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Let's go with Gates. Okay, okay, okay, Fie fan, I
don't see him being part of a cholmless station ring.
Speaker 7 (21:48):
I mean, listen, I'm not going to say that about
anybody at this point because we really don't know anything here.
But what I will say is that Trump is trying
too hard. I just interviewed Rudy You, who is a
Trump ally, told me this crazy story about how Trump
actually picked Epstein out of mar A Lago. I think
(22:08):
it was around twenty ten because he actually got complaints
from his messuses that allegedly Jeffrey Epstein was asking them
for sexual favors at the end of his massage, and
Trump said, you know what, I want nothing to do
with this sicko, and he kicked him out.
Speaker 8 (22:23):
And I'll also say this, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
You know, here's another thing. Here's another saying hold on.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I want to throw that to doctor Cheryl Eric joining
us a clinical forensic psychologists specializing in cases just like this,
doctor Cheryl. Look, from what I've been told, Trump doesn't drink,
he doesn't smoke, he doesn't do drugs. I find it
really hard to believe he would take part in child molestation.
(22:48):
Of course, you know what, we don't know that. But
the fact that his name was in the files doesn't
mean he did anything wrong. I mean, think of Bill
Gas trying to money for a charity with Epstein. That
doesn't mean he did anything wrong. But the hiding it.
I mean, remember Watergate. Okay, there was a break in,
(23:11):
but the cover up overshadowed everything else. And what it
boils down to, doctor Cheryl is the truth is other defendants,
other child molesters that need to be prosecuted. That's what
this is about. It is not about Trump, it is
not about politics. It's about Lady Justice.
Speaker 14 (23:33):
It's about the victims. It's about the victims of trafficking.
As you may know, I serve on a board of
directors of an organization called Mary's Path and it helps
pregnant teens who are victims of trafficking. And I will
tell you that these kids are some of the most traumatized,
most vulnerable crime victims of any crime victims, and they
(23:56):
really really need our protection. And we're trying to find
out what's going on. We're trying to think about them
and protect them. And the concern with Jeline Maxwell, she's
in prison for sex trafficking, for hurting so many of
these young women and building their trust and violating their trust.
(24:20):
She's already been charged with multiple counts of perjury in
the past. And what we know as psychologists is the
best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And I'm
not saying a whole lot of truth telling in her
past behavior.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
The US Attorney General promising out the Yin Yang, promising
the release of the Epstein files, and now we're being
told there's nothing in there, so we're not releasing them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
If there's nothing in there, why not release them?
Speaker 13 (24:48):
These is I cover up with epic proportions and a
lot of errors in the Justice Department.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
For the information contiding those files, who jeopardize any potential
appeal as the East lying Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
And now a big stinct in the middle of the case,
Elaine Maxwell actually meets with the Feds.
Speaker 15 (25:04):
Listen as Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche announced as a
meeting with Gilleene Maxwell to gather more information on Jeffrey
Epstein and his alleged clients. The House Oversight Committee also
announces plans to subpoena Maxwell. Representative James Comer, the committee chair,
makes it clear that Maxwell will not be receiving any
kind of pardon or immunity in exchange for her testimony.
(25:27):
The Jailhouse deposition has been tentatively scheduled for August eleventh.
Speaker 6 (25:31):
They want to know if Maxwell wants to talk, what
she has to say, So that's why yesterday my committee
moved to make a motion to issue subpoena if she's
wanting a pardon or any type of immunity. That's off
the table.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
From our friends at CNN. Okay, she's talking, She is talking.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
She had a very long meeting and she went back
into her facility, her cio, with a huge box obviously
containing documents. Reportedly she had on handcuffs so tight during
that meeting with the Feds that her wrists were red
when she came out of the meeting. Lauren Colin joining us, Lauren,
(26:16):
what do you know?
Speaker 8 (26:17):
Delay Maxwell?
Speaker 7 (26:18):
On July twenty fourth and July twenty fifth, she met
with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche at her Tallahassee prison
and it lasted for about two days, and she had
a box with her when she went back to prison
that there was photographs taken.
Speaker 8 (26:37):
Everybody was wondering what was in this box.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
And apparently her handcuffs were on extremely tight Nancy. So
we hopefully will find out what was said during this meeting.
We are not sure yet.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Now I'm thinking about what doctor Cheryl Eric just said
to Eric fattis joining us. Feneran trial lawyer, following up
also on what Lauren Colins said. She'll say anything to
get out, to get out from behind bars. But whatever
she says will very likely be corroborated. So I'm trying
(27:10):
to figure out what you think about her talking for
hours and hours and hours from behind bars. It's got
to be about the Epstein files, obviously, but I would
imagine the first thing she did was try to hammer
out a deal for herself totally.
Speaker 10 (27:26):
I mean, you know, look, we know that she's not
doing this out of the goodness of her heart, right,
she has got an incentive. She's behind bars in a
box for twenty years, and so you know, my question too,
is is how did this conversation go? You know, she's
asked a bunch of leading questions like hey, was this
person involved? She might feel, hey, they want me to
(27:47):
say that, so I'm just going to agree to it.
There are certainly credibility issues, but like you said, it
can be cross checked against documents in other investigations.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
That ability issues, that's a that's putting it mildly, that's
putting perfume on the pig.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Julayne Maxwell. Credibility issues.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You know, I want you to hear what the late
Virginia's you'frey had to say about Julaine Maxwell.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
The late Virginia Gufray, a former Epstein sex slave, always
pointed to Maxwell as the cruler of the couple. Goufrey
called Maxwell vicious, evil and the geppetto to Epstein's Pinocchio.
Maxwell was heavily criticized for playing dumb in a twenty
sixteen deposition asking the deposer to explain a sex toy
to her. At one point in the interview. Maxwell also
(28:36):
publicly denied that Gufrey ever met Prince Andrew, despite sending
next to her with the royal and heavily circulated photos.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
You know what, Robert.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Crispin, a couple of people here on the set actually
broke a smile when the issue regarding Julainne Maxwell playing
dumb and not being forthcoming under oath in a depot
asking the questioner to explain what is a sex toy? Crispin, obviously,
(29:05):
people that Craig a smile at Juline Maxwell being clever
and witty have never seen a sex trafficking victim.
Speaker 12 (29:13):
I just think that Elaine Maxwell is obviously a piece
of garbage, and when I react to her testimony, I'm
reacting to she's such a liar. I hope these guys
aren't falling for any of this, and this entire meeting
that's going on with the US Attorney's Office last week.
(29:33):
Trust me, when they talked to her, they said, we
will walk out in the first lie or deception that
we feel. So moving forward, every single question we ask
you must be the truth. Trust me. That has been
reiterated to her from the government officials as well as
her lawyers. Elaine wants out, Elaine wants to live. It's
(29:57):
go time. And I guarantee you she's given the government
some bombshell information. And I think that's why this list
has not come out, because now they have to go
back and decipher every single thing that she said. This
meeting wasn't just to go talk about the case. This
was a very pointed, direct and factual obtaining mission by
(30:19):
the US Attorney's Office.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Crispin.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Have you ever had to do something in the pursuit
of the truth, in the pursuit of justice that turned
your stomach? For instance, put somebody on the stand of
questionable character. Let me just put it mildly, because you
needed the testimony. I call it going to hell to
(30:54):
get the witness to put the devil in jail. I
feel like I'm eating a dirt sandwich by even entertaining
any kind of a deal for Jelainne Maxwell. As a
matter of fact, we heard what Virginia's fright now dead
by suicide had to say about Jelainne Maxwell. Well, another victim,
(31:15):
Teresa Helm, says something similar.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Listen.
Speaker 15 (31:19):
Victim Teresa Helm echoes other's concern that Maxwell will not
provide any more truth on the situation. Helm describes Maxwell
as crafty and extremely articulate. Helm worries Maxwell will walk
away from these meetings with the sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Deal and the public will be left wanting.
Speaker 15 (31:36):
Helm says if Maxwell negotiates anything like Epstein's two thousand
and seven slap on the wrist, it would be a
tragic day for those who survived her horrific abuse.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Promise after promise after promise, the confusion around suicide, the homicide,
the edited video.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
They said that he was found dead from an apparent suicide.
Speaker 10 (31:57):
There are more than eleven thousand documents that have not
been released to the publics around this child at sex
trafficking ring.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Why would they have lied about that?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Federal officials tell us that what's in those files is
quote shocking, disgusting, or sending anything they've seen before.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
That's bad.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
That's bad for a politician who's seen it all and
likely done it all to say the files are that contemptuous.
Julaine Maxwell maybe the key to the client list, as
we call it euphemistically, young girls that were lured by
(32:44):
Julaine Maxwell says she is sinister, that she's worse than
Epstein himself. The federal government also calls her quote crafty listen.
Speaker 16 (32:58):
Federal prosecutors wrote in Glene Maxwell's sentencing memorandum that the
socialite displayed a significant pattern of dishonest conduct. They noted
several instances of Maxwell lying under oath. In twenty twenty one,
Maxwell told the court, I have committed no crime, which
was demonstrably false. In a twenty sixteen deposition, Maxwell Clayton
(33:18):
she never gave victim Annie Farmer a massage, but Farmer's
testimony at trial established that as a lie. Maxwell also
lied about her assets while applying for bail. Prosecutors wrote,
in short, the defendant decides when she wishes to disclose
facts to the court, and those facts shift when it
serves the defendant's interests.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I mean, the reality is, who do you think Epsen's
hanging around with nouns and priests of vergence. No, he's
with Julanne Maxwell. She is a child molester, and she's convicted.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And she is a liar.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So far her appeals have been turned down. Now she's
trying to get the Supremes on her case. Lauren Colin,
You've done extensive interviews and research.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
What more can you tell us?
Speaker 7 (33:59):
Yes, So, I actually interviewed her Appellet team, or part
of her Appellet team, in February of twenty twenty five,
right when Pam Bondy was supposed to roll out Phase
one of these files. So I'm talking to Arthur Idalla
and he actually tells me that Glaine said to him
about Jeffrey Epstein and his alleged quote unquote suicide, that
(34:20):
Jeffrey Epstein would not have the balls excuse my language,
to kill himself. I found that incredibly interesting. But at
the same time, Nancy, Arthur also seemed to gaslight me
a little bit in this interview, and I've clipped it.
You can find this very easily where he says to me, Lauren,
I just don't think that Glaine has this power.
Speaker 8 (34:41):
That you think that she has.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
And that was a slap to me, because look, we're
all talking about it, Nancy, she does. And something you
just said, when you talk about these files and you've
heard that they are quote shocking, disgusting, I mean, you
are visibly horrified.
Speaker 8 (34:58):
Right When Pam Bondy did her little media tore.
Speaker 7 (35:01):
About this, all she said about these files were Oh,
it's pretty sick, They're pretty sick. That didn't sit right
with me. That to me was very that was very telling.
She hasn't read the files. She doesn't even know what's
on these files. And so again this just goes back
to us being lied to, the American people being lied to.
(35:21):
I don't know who to trust at this point. You know,
as you've said, Delane, she's been charged in twenty twenty
multiple counts of perjury. So why are we supposed to
believe her now?
Speaker 2 (35:31):
What I have learned in the course of our properly
predicated and necessary investigations into these aforementioned matters she's talking about,
Epstein has quote shot me down to my core. Mangino
said that on X he goes on to state, we
cannot run a republic like this. I'll never be the
(35:53):
same after learning what I have learned. Okay, I mean,
what does he have to do take out a billboard
on Third Avenue for anybody to pay attention. This guy, again,
has not been marinated in the power of the White House.
He just got in as deputy director of the FBI,
(36:15):
and he says he cannot forget what he's seen, that
he is quote shot to the core. What is in
the files?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Back to you, Joe Scott, Morgan joining us.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I want to circle back, Joe Scott to the fact
that you and I and many many others believe that
Epstein was murdered. His brother believes it, people that knew
him believes it. In all this business about Julanne Maxwell's
defense lawyer saying, oh, she doesn't know anything. Of course
he's going to say something like that. What do you
expect He's paid to say things like that. But Joe Scott,
(36:51):
when you look at the brutality of Epstein's death, those
deep furrows in his neck, bottom line, she better come
up with some.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Truth, a big truth bomb in a hurry. Yeah, that's my.
Speaker 13 (37:05):
Biggest piece to this that I don't know. It's so
glaringly obvious. You can see it actually on the CBS report.
Those marks on his neck, Nancy, The biggest tell for
me as an old death investigator is the fact that
they run parallel to his shoulders. There's not the tinting
feature of the classic tinting feature where you have with
(37:26):
a hanging these marks on his neck, and I urge
everybody just to look at these. It's very simple to
see they run backwards like this instead of going to
an apex behind his head. That is what we would
call a typical I mean, what did he do, lay down,
face down on the floor with a noose around his
(37:46):
neck in order to draw, in order to draw the
thing around his neck and choke the life out of him.
I just don't see it happening. You cannot sell this
to me, no matter how hard you try. I am
not believe in it.
Speaker 15 (38:00):
After her hours long meeting with Deputy US Attorney General
Todd Blanche Galene, Maxwell returns to the FCI Tallahassee, clad
and brown prison clothes and handcuffed in the front. But
when she goes through the gates, an officer follows behind
her with a mysterious box. Once Maxwell is freed from
the cuffs, she carries the bin inside. It's unclear what
(38:21):
its contents are.
Speaker 8 (38:27):
Founded pointed in.
Speaker 14 (38:30):
You guys, I want to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
What I do want to say is that DoD is
a great attorney. But you ought to be speaking about
Larry Sombry's.
Speaker 16 (38:37):
You ought to be speaking about some.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Of his friends that are.
Speaker 9 (38:42):
Edge fun guys.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
They're all over the place.
Speaker 8 (38:44):
You ought to be.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Speaking about Bill Lynton, who went to the island twenty
eight times. I never went to the island.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about them. I'd love to.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Now, just recently, Sidney Sumner, you were with me when
this happened. Sidney Sumner, Crime Stories investigative reporter, the attorney
for nine and counting of victims of Epstein's child wanns
station victims, said that point blank he can't give the
names because of attorney client privilege.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
He has to hold those names in.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
But he said that there are many many corporate clients
John's of Epstein's that had sex with underage girls.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That's statutory rape. He said that.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
And now we hear Trump stating you ought to be
talking about Larry Summers. You ought to be talking about
some of his friends that are hedge fund guys. They
kind of fits in with what the victims lawyer said,
you ought to be talking about Bill Clinton, who went
to the island twenty eight times.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Why was he at the island?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Leda island twenty eight times? Trump says, I never went
to the island, And you know what, I believe him.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I don't think he ever went to the island.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
But if his name is in those files, he's gonna
have I have to answer up. And doesn't preclude Larry Summers,
the Hedge find guys, or Bill Clinton from answering up.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
They're not mutually exclusive, said Nate.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Remember when the victim's lawyer referred to all those corporate
clients of Epstein's.
Speaker 9 (40:17):
Yes, Nancy, and therein lies the problem is that you
hear all of these Well, Bill Clinton has been to
the island twenty eight times. Okay, where is that information
coming from? Exactly how do you have proof of that?
And how do we get proof of that. We need
to know exactly who was there and when. And it really,
(40:39):
at the end of the day, it isn't the public's business,
but you've made it the public's business because you've promised transparency.
You've promised that we're going to see how the investigation unfolded,
and why there isn't enough evidence to prove that anyone
else was involved in this, because those are the types
of comments that make the public feel like other people
(41:02):
should be prosecuted. So we're questioning, why aren't other people
having to take responsibility for their participation in this child
sex trafficking ring? But you casually throw out, oh, this
person wasn't involved. You can't have both. It's a double
edged sword. So it's really coming back and biting the
(41:23):
White House and the butt and they are just all
over this issue on opposite sides. Just ten days before
Todd Blanche arranged this meeting with Guwayne Maxwell, the DOJ
formally opposed for appeal to the Supreme Court. They told
the Supreme Court, hey, don't listen to this. This isn't valid.
(41:44):
She needs to remain behind bars, right where she is.
But now they want her to spill her guts on
everything she knows.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I see what you're saying, But again, those two are
not mutually exclusive. Her appeal has no merit, and I'll
tell you why. She doesn't have a leg to stand on.
She's trying to say that she was governed by Epstein's
plea deal in Palm Beach decades ago. No, I can't
take a guilty please from you, Sydney, and then you
(42:16):
give immunity, but out of your deal to Robert Crispin.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
That has to be done through Crispin. See what I mean.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
So Epstein's prosecutors didn't have the power to say we're
never going to prosecute anybody else in connection to this case. Ever,
they could do that for him for Epstein, but that
type of blanket immunity to govern decades in the future, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
A big no.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
So I agree with the FEDS that that appeal has
no merit. At the same time, the FEDS want to
talk to her about the Epstein files. But I see
what you're saying is duplicatus to It's like one hand
doesn't know what the other hand is doing. I hear you,
Lauren Conlin. I'm where does it end? Because when I
(43:06):
hear the deputy director of the FBI say this is
no way to run a republic. We cannot run a
republic like this quote, I'll never be the.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Same after learning what I've learned. Yes, I agree, this is.
Speaker 7 (43:23):
Very tough, and I think I just go back to
you know, I side with you when it comes to
Dan Bongino. He is not a career politician, but Nancy,
he was very much on board with this narrative that
Pam Bondi put out. He was tweeting it out, He
and Cash Mattel were echoing the same thing. They were
all on the same page. And then the reaction from
(43:44):
his fellow Republicans, from the American people, you know, he
saw that, and then all of a sudden he backpedaled.
And at the beginning of all this back in February,
there was also some blame on James Denihy and the FBI,
which is again why I go back to the whole,
Like the dj and the FBI seemed to be taking
the can down the road. But I agree with Sidney Sumner,
(44:05):
this is a double edged sword here.
Speaker 12 (44:07):
The lead has been treated unfairly for over five years now.
Speaker 13 (44:11):
If you looked up the.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Scapegoat in the dictionary, her face.
Speaker 12 (44:14):
Would be next to the definition, next to the Dictionary
definition of it.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
She's telling the streets. She's got no reason to lie
at this point, and she's going to keep telling the truths.
Speaker 13 (44:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
That's all we have today. What is he saying that's
for our friends at the teleha see Democrat of course,
exclaimed Maxwell's defense lawyer, saying, look, she's been treating and fairly.
She's child in lester for decades and decades and decades.
If you look up scapegoat in the dictionary, her face
would be next to it. Okay, she may be a
(44:42):
scapegoat because everybody was angry Epstein didn't go to trial.
That doesn't mean she's innocent. What hangs in the balance justice,
What hangs in the balance the truth, All politics aside truth.
That's what we're asking for. That's what we're asking for, Bondie,
(45:07):
you promised, now deliver What if anything will become of
hours and hours and hours in a room with Gleainne Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Will we ever get justice?
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Or because rich and powerful defendants may be involved, will
it all just be swept under the rug like we're
gonna forget it?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
We're not.
Speaker 17 (45:36):
We remember an American hero Deputy Sheriff Alejandro Martinez, La
County Sheriff, just twenty seven, killed in a line of duty,
survived by father, our tiro American hero Deputy Sheriff Alejandro Martinez.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend
Speaker 15 (46:00):
Y
Host
Nancy Grace
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