September 10, 2025 • 48 mins
At 21 a former model was assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein on a trip to his island, starting a pattern that would last for years. Lisa Phillips, joins Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, to discuss the way women and young girls are manipulated, and what she learned from other survivors.
Lisa hopes more names associated with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell will be released. Lisa has spoken at press conferences alongside other Epstein victims to demand transparency and justice for survivors. She has also started her own podcast, From Now On, where she interviews other abuse survivors.
Joining Nancy Grace today,
Lisa Phillips - Epstein Survivor, was on Capitol Hill last week meeting with members of Congress about the release of the “Epstein Files", Host of the podcast "From Now On”, Instagram, Facebook & YouTube: @FromNowOnPod
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein, victim fights back
and Tonight tells her story. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So I was on a photo shoot in early two
thousand and another young blonde Polish model said, you know,
I have a friend who owns island. He's been so
wonderful to me. He got me my visa to live
in the United States. I just said, okay, sure, I'll
go with you. A young blonde girl knocked on my
door and told myself that Jeffrey needed a massage.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
A massage.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. A massage
with Jeffrey Epstein turns into full on rape. Why is
someone covering for Jeffrey Epstein? Why have we been lied
to over and over and over? When I say the
(00:59):
US attorney, a lot of people are like, what's the
US attorney? The US attorney is the top cop for
our nation, our whole country. Now, state to state, you
may have one or more US attorneys. They are federal
prosecutors appointed to prosecute the state's business and represent victims.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
For instance, in Georgia.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
There are three, the Northern, Middle, and Southern District US Attorneys.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
In every state.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
There are US attorneys and they are all governed by one,
the US attorney. Now, I want you to hear what
the US attorney Bondi said about having a client list
and all the steam files right on her desk.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Okay, listen, the.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
DOJ may be released the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, that really happen.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump. It goes on and
on and on.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
But that's the pertinent part, and that is from our
friend John Roberts over at Fox News. We were told
there's video, there are flight logs, there are names of clients.
Now we're being told, yeah, I don't know why I
said that. Don't listen to me, that's wrong. But tonight
joining us is a woman that knows better. Now, who
(02:36):
are we going to believe her or BONDI? What is
the truth at this hour as we go to air tonight,
victims Epstein victims are banding together to create a client list.
I'm going to get to that in just a moment,
But first I want to introduce you a very special guest.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
A Jeffrey Epstein survivor. I hate to always say.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Victim because Lisa Phillips has gone on to become a warrior.
Yes she's a mother of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous
former Ford Agency model. Yes, she's been in a major
motion picture among many things. Any given Sunday, a lot
(03:26):
of people have seen that she's in it. She's beautiful,
she's accomplished, she's articulate. She's also a Jeffrey Epstein victim
now survivor, slash warrior.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Lisa, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Thank you, Nancy, and thank you for calling me a warrior.
That means so much to me, especially in this climate
right now.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You are you know, all over our country, Lisa. Sex
attack victims don't speak out for a number of reasons.
I mean I could rattle off many many cases that
I personally investigated and prosecuted where the victim did not
want to.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Come forward for so many different reasons.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Okay, I had one victim that was repeatedly raped, ag assaulted,
and locked into a car trunk, and she and her
culture believed to be raped was taboo and that she
was the.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Bad person, that it was all her fault.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So on the stand and her husband was sitting there,
she did not want him or anybody else to know
she was raped.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
We could talk about.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The agassault, the beating, the tying of the hands, the putting.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
In the trunk, but we couldn't talk about the rape.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
She would not admit it, even though she secretly told
people she was raped, and the rape kit nurse agreed
she had been raped.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
So, I mean, there's.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
A million reasons why victims don't come forward. Sometimes they're afraid. Sometimes,
like in your case, we already know of estimating between
five and twenty people have died connected to the Epstein case.
So you are representing victims of assault and attack, and
(05:16):
they're listening to you tonight, and they're looking at you,
and they're seeing you speak out. I want to go
back in time. Oh, by the way, did I mention?
Lisa is a host of a hit podcast called From
now On, where she interviews other crime victims and talks
(05:36):
about moving forward. Now, let's talk about moving forward the
Jeffrey Epstein case. How did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? Mayhe
rot in hell?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well? I just want to say thank you for that intro.
The survivors are here because we are fed up and
we are not victims. We do not like to be
called victims. We are survivors. And what that means is
we are on the path of healing and making choices
(06:11):
that will move the investigation along because we feel like
we have answers that can help. And so this whole time,
we're thinking, wait a second, you know this person, you
saw this person, you were at the island, you were there.
How can we connect the dots? And so that's what
we realized. You know what, We're taking our power back
(06:33):
because what happened to me on that island back in
two thousand should have never have happened. I was brought
there by another young girl. And that was the genius
of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring, as he got other
girls and young women to bring more. And there was
this layers and layers of girls. As you hear the
(06:54):
young Florida girls, they all were brought there by other
young underage girls. And the same with me on the island.
I was brought there by another girl in her early
twenties who thought Jeffrey was the world. I mean, she
was groomed to think that. But you know, she convinced me, Oh,
it's not a big deal to jump on a boat
(07:15):
and go over to an island and see this wonderful
person and hang out for the day. So that's what
I did.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So when you flew, when you were flown to the island,
what do you think was going to happen, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Nancy, I took a boat to the island because I
was next I was at Tortola, the island next door.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Hold on, that's significant. Why is that significant? How you
got to the island Because a lot of these girls,
as young as twelve years old were brought in from
other countries, particularly the stands Uzbekistan, from Turkey, from Russia.
They were flown yes to the mainland, and then they
(07:57):
were put on a ferry that ferried them over to
Epstein's Island in the US. Virgin Islands, by the way,
is under US jurisdiction, so we can prosecute cases there.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I'm glad you said that, because when I try case,
I like to corroborate in my witness because every victim
is going to be attacked on cross examination, and we
just saw that in the Shawn Comes case, the two
victims had.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Photos and videos of them being beaten, covered in bruises.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
They described vomiting after attacks in the shower and being
forced out back into a.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Freak off party, i e. Rape.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Even then, the jury believed that they were on the take,
that this was all about them getting some kind of
money settlement. So, long story short, I try to corroborate
victims even when I believe them for the jury. What
you just said is what all these then little girls
said they were loan to the mainland and then they
were ferried to the island. Is that an element of
(09:06):
proof of a felony? No, but it corroborates their story.
So tell me how that worked. Every fact is important, Lisa.
So you're flown to.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The mainland and then you take a ferry. Is that
what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yes, yes, basically the same thing. I was on the
US version islands as well and as well and taken
by boat over to his island. What kind of boat
like a ferry boat?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So somebody picked you up at a dock, you got on,
they took you over, and they dropped you off at an
appointed spot.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's correct?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you
haven't even spoken to or or you don't know their names.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
So amazing how your.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Stories already are like a fingerprint story.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
They fit exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Okay, you get to Epstein's island and what happens.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Well, An, That's the.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Reason why I started speaking out in the first place,
is because when I would hear the victim's story, I
would say, wait a second, that happened to me too,
you know, so it would happen over and over with
that happened to me, Or you know, I can I
can stand up for them, you know, I can be
the one to stick up for them. That's what I
was thinking in the beginning, but it hasn't really turned
(10:19):
out that way. So on the island, we actually had
a really good time on the island for the first
several hours, hanging out at the pool, and you know,
we had a wonderful dinner where I met Jeffrey Epstein.
And Jeffrey is charming and he's very intelligent, and he's
locked in on you. He already knew all the other
(10:41):
young girls at the table, so he locked in on me.
You know, I had grown up in Oxford, England as
a child, and so we had that connection. And I
knew a lot about art, and I had traveled around
the world quite a bit already at that point, and
so we had a lot to talk about. And he
said he found me fascinating, and he said I was
(11:02):
at a powerful presence. He said all these wonderful things
to me, and he just built me up.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And wait a minute, White a manu at White, a
minute at hold on Hold a Ford model for twelve years,
you don't know when some man is blowing smoke up
your skirt you have a powerful presence.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
What does that even mean?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, I wasn't a Ford model yet. I wasn't a
Ford model yet. And I was like, you know, I
had grown up, I had left, I grow I graduate
high school in Belgium with fifty people. So I was
a little naive. And also I didn't have that confidence
that a lot of girls that have wonderful fathers that
are calling them every day and building them up and
saying I'm proud of you. And I had I think
(11:41):
low self esteem when it came to men, because I
just didn't have that father daughter relationship that was powerful
and strong and made me feel confident. I think I
just always felt a little worthless, and that you know,
I could never be enough for my family or for
my father.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And so attention you, Lisa Phillips. Okay, do I have
the right Lisa Phillips. This is the woman that started
in any given Sunday and it's four model, twelve years and.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
You felt insecure? What does that? I mean?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What does that leave me and everybody else just as
mere mortals? Okay, so you feel insecure. So you and
we're very young and a very sheltered upbringing. So when
someone talks to you like that and gives you this attention,
you were still what were you twenty one?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, that was in my early twenties.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, you were flattered. You were flattered. You said something earlier.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
About the genius of Jeffrey Epstein, how he would get
young girls to bring in other girls, and I wanted
everyone to keep in mind that the young girls were
very often as young as thirteen. Now you just said
(12:58):
something that again echoes exactly what other Epstein victims have said.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I want you to listen. Listen to this.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein
undressed and asked me to do things to him. My
eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been
more scared in my life. When it was over, he
paid me two hundred dollars and requested in exchange that
(13:26):
I bring a girl each time to make another two
hundred dollars. I told him I did not want to
do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I
felt in hope to never hear from him again, but
he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful,
and he would not let me goet. I had no
choice if I disobeyed him. I knew something bad would happen.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's exactly what Lisa Phillips is saying she observed, and
a completely different location at a different time. Now, what
you were hearing is from at Rep. Thomas Massey on
X and you were hearing Haley Robson talking about when
she first met Epstein, she was a little girl and
he raped her, gave her two hundred dollars, like throwing
(14:10):
down a twenty at the waffle house. You know, big
man throwing around two hundred dollars to a little girl,
and he was asking the little girl, now adult Hallie
Robson to bring other little girls in for him to rape,
and I want you to hear what happened.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I started to bring him other girls from my high school,
and he paid me two hundred dollars two hundred dollars
for bringing them. I just hoped each time it would
be the last time. One day, the stepmom of one
of the girls brought him and called the police on
Jeffrey Epstein. The police then called me, called me in
for questioning. I had told them the truth, despite the
(14:48):
fact that I was a teenager and a miner, and
I was able to tell the police the names of
all the other victims.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And she goes on Lisa to state, the police made
me feel like I was the criminal because I, as
a girl, had brought him other girls. But he made
me and somehow she turns into the bad person and
he doesn't get prosecuted down there in Palm Beach County.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Again, that's from at Rep.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Thomas Massey on X That mirrors exactly what you called
the genius. I guess, evil genius Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It was. It was evil genius. He had it down
so good that he made the girls feel guilty for
bringing other girls. But he made you do that, and
like she said, he would call you every day. His
secretaries would call every single day. They would hound you.
When I got back from the island, they hounded me
(15:46):
for four months straight every day until I would change
my mind to go in and meet with him again.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Okay, wait a minute, let me circle back to when
you met with him the first time. So we left
off with you being told you had a powerful presence.
I mean, right there, I would say, no, got to
get powerful presence, my rare end.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
But what happened after that?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Jeffrey always said things to build you up, so he
was more of a mentor to a lot of these
girls when we were sitting together at Capitol Hill. You
have to understand it is a very confusing thing because
you know his grooming process is to eventually abuse you,
but in between, he's like a wonderful mentor, so he
(16:33):
builds you up the way you've never been built up before.
Whoa hold on seems in.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Your alformation Jeffrey eb saying a mentor. Okay, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I know he promised to get people jobs and modeling
gigs and parts on movies.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Did he ever come through with any of that?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
One hundred percent. I've never spoken to anyone in his
world that he didn't come through on everything. He said.
That's the reason why he got away with everything, because
he made everything happen.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So he would set people up with gigs and get
them actual jobs.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, I don't know about gigs, but if you were
interested in law, he helped you out. If you're interested
in art, he helped you out with getting a position
at art gallery. I know TV hosts, actresses, many women
who have successful businesses because of Jeffrey. Actually, I know
many that have husbands because of Jeffrey as well. So
he did do a lot of good things for you
(17:30):
because he had to, because that's how what you had
to do is let him ripe you. Yeah, I mean
he was also very sneaky about that. With massages, it
was always a massage. It was always a real massage,
you know. So that's what these girls are saying. And
I was hoping it was the last time I would
have this massage. And then sometimes a massage would turn
it into molestation or rape. Jeffrey is ready for his massage.
(17:53):
I was just like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
What massage?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
The other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes, you know, massages,
you just have to do it. I was trapped on
the island. I didn't know where to go. I just,
you know, follow the girl into his room to do
the massage with this other young girl, and I ended
up being abused on that island.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So, guys, Lisa Phillips with us tonight, just amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Beautiful, articulate, brilliant, has seen the world and is.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
A survivor of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You know, I was just thinking about, as I was
rattling off all your accomplishments earlier, what do you make
of so many Epstein victims dying? I feel like we're
in Russia. Whenever anyone speaks ill of Putin, they suddenly
jump out a window and die, or they get poison
and die. A lot of suicides connected to Putin. I mean,
(18:47):
I'm going to go hide under the bed after tonight.
But what do you make of so many people? I
can count off five just on my off the top
of my head. But I've read other reports up in
the twenties. I mean, you've got Virginia Giffrey, you have
Jean Luke Brunei that was his French counterpart, Renell his
(19:09):
French counterpart. I mean, there's so many other reports up
to twenty. Do you ever think about that you have
three boys to raise and victims are dropping like flies
before they can testify. Does that concern you?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Well, I mean, I knew Virginia, and I've spoken a
lot to her family and all of her friends and survivors,
and unfortunately there's quite a few survivors that have passed away.
But I mean, I hope it wasn't anything darker. But
what we believe with the cycle of abuse is it's
(19:47):
something that you just never get over and it torments you.
And certain individuals they can't take it and they can't
take their life. And like Virginia, she was fighting so
hard to bring these powerful men down and she was
just losing every fight. And no amount of money is
going to say to you and keep you happy. It
just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Lisa, speaking of all of the people that have committed
suicide or died accidentally connected to the Epstein case, I
was first referring to Epstein's French counterpart, Jean Luke Brennell.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
When Epstein was in jail in Florida in two thousand
and eight, Jean Luke Brenell visited him seventy times. Virginia
Giuffrey alleged that she was sexually trafficked by Epstein and
Maxwell to several high profile individuals, including Brunell, while she
was under age. After Epstein's death, Brunell went into hiding.
He was arrested December sixteenth, twenty twenty, investigated for rape,
(20:43):
sexual assault, in human trafficking, and charged with drugging and
raping a seventeen year old girl. Brunell was found dead
in his berege In jail cell, allegedly hanging himself two
years after Epstein's death.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And in addition to Jean Luke Brenell, there is Carolyn Andriano.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
Carolyn Andreano and continued to abuse her for the next
four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial for
sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in a
West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age of
thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children. West
Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So we've got one suicide of Jean Luke Brenell, then
we have one accidental overdose of Carolyn Andreano.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Carolyn Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have died
of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
Sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Patrick says,
leet guy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
And then, of course there are questions still swirling about
the death off Virginia Giffrey.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Royal experts say the death of Virginia Jeffrey cements Prince
Andrew's place of shame with no hope of ever rehabilitating
his image. The ball was fast, as Virginia Jeffrey not
only accused the Prince of sexual abuse, she had a
picture taken with the fallen royal on the cover of
every news outlet in the world. When Epstein was arrested,
Royal expert Richard Fitzwilliams tells Fox News Digital Virginia Jeffrey
(22:33):
was ultimately a tragic victim of a brutal pedophile. Any
hope Andrew may have had of casting doubt on her
evidence no longer exists. Prince Andrew's stripped of his royal
and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates more negativity as the
allegations jump back into the headlines. According to one royal watcher,
Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him, but merely closes the matter.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And then, last but not least, Jeffrey Epstein himself come
in suicide.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
There's no way the guy can commit suicide from the
clothing they gave him, to the types of sheet that
he had to cover himself with while he slapped. It
was described as something a little bit thicker than paper,
but not strong enough to hold the weight of an individual.
There are no bars in the cell, there's no light fixtures.
There's nothing that you can tie on to if you
had something to tie up and make a noose. His
(23:21):
former cellmate said, there was no way this could happen. Now.
The guards is supposed to be looking in on him
every couple of minutes. They were supposed to be viewed
physically every twenty minutes. So you've got an impossible situation
being sold to the public as reality.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So Lisa, neither you nor I, neither of us are
forensic experts. But I find it hard to believe that
between five and twenty people have all died of accidental
overdoses and suicides, all connected to Epstein.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Back to that night when you met Epstein. Okay, you
stay that you were told, Hey, it's just a massage,
you have to do it.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Who tells you that?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
The girl who brought me there?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
How did she bring you there? How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
We were both booked for a photoshoot on Tortola Island.
It was a British crew. We were both shooting covers
of the magazine and a full on story spread inside.
So we were booked for four days on that island.
Then we had one day that was off, and so
that's why she suggested that we go over to Jeffrey's
(24:34):
Island for the day.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
How does she know Epstein?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
She was Eastern European and a lot of young models
that have agencies in Europe, probably linked to Jean luth Burnelle,
but I'm not sure if she is, but I know
quite a few of them were. They helped them to
come over and Jeffrey secure as their visa for them.
So once they do that, of course they're very grateful
(24:58):
to Jeffrey for that, but then can continue to abuse
them and traffic those girls out, so they're stuck in
this cycle. So that's why she has this loop going, Oh,
he's great, He's wonderful, because yeah, part of her probably
does believe because he has helped her out immensely with
her life, but he's abusing her. And I know for
sure she was being trafficked.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
When you say trafficked, what exactly do you.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Mean, Well, Jeffery's other powerful friends. She would have to
go and spend time with them. He would make her
go spend time with them.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
What did they do? Sit by the fireside and knit?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Unfortunately, most of the time it ends in some type
of sexual assault.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
We Lisa, how do you know that I knew.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
A lot of people in New York back then. I
have a very outgoing personality. I love people, and I
just knew a lot of models and ambitious young women
during that time. And I know at least sixty that
have never come forward because they have good lives and
they don't. They want to forget about it, and they
want to suppress it, and they're comfortable doing that. And
(26:06):
I sometimes I think it I would have been better
if I had done that.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Lisa, Why do you say that, well, just because that
sometimes you think it would have been better if you
just never said anything.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Oh, Nancy, you know it's you know, I suppressed it
for fifteen years, and I feel like my life was
so much better when you just act like nothing happened,
you know, But the shame is always there, you know,
it's there, and the confusion was always there for me.
And so I could have been like a lot of
these girls, hundreds of them in New York, hundreds of
(26:37):
them eighteen to twenty four. I would think there was
even more in New York than there wasn't Florida, because
you can get away with a lot more with eighteen
to twenty two year olds. So those women, they went
on to do wonderful things with their life. They were
beautiful and tall and attractive, and they got a lot
of good things from Jeffrey. In a way, their life
(26:59):
is good. But I think most of them, when you
suppress that pain, you have that shame that's still there,
and many things manifest from that illness, disease, mental illness
and things like that. So you know, it's sometimes I
just say that, Nancy, just because maybe I shouldn't have
taken this path. I mean, now that I've gone, you know,
(27:22):
to DC, this has secured it for me that I'm
on the right path, But prior to that, sometimes I'm like,
why am I doing this to myself? Why am I
in four hours a week of therapy talking about this.
You know, it's tough. It's not easy to go through
healing and therapy, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I've met so many crime victims say exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Me.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I hate it when someone out of the believe asked
me about my fiancees murder, because I can be having
a perfectly fine day and then that happens, and more
often than not, it's like somebody just threw a bucket
of water on me, and I have to think about
it him getting shot over and over and over, and
what did he feel, and did he know what happened
(28:08):
and how badly did it hurt? And what life would
have been like if he hadn't been murdered, and just
it's really upsetting, and you go right back to the
moment that everything happened.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
So I hear you. I hear you.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And with rape victims especially, they also, in addition to
what I just said, feel like it's their fault, like
I went to the island, or I went to his mansion.
Of course he thought we were going to have six.
That's just completely beast atwards. But that is how rape
victims feel. They feel like it's their fault.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I keep getting you right to the point where you're
on the island with another supermodel like yourself, and she says, oh,
he's great, Oh he's wonderful. How in the hat did
it get to You've got to give him a massage.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Just like that. It was so quick, it was a
wonderful day, just a normal day. And then right when
it was time, everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole
island looked different. The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation,
in the anxiousness of like, what the frick is going
on here? And I'm looking at her and I could
(29:20):
see she has a little fear in her eyes. You know,
something was wrong with her because she didn't want to
do it, you know, But it's just something. She took
a deep breath and she was like, we have to
do it, and so I just went with her because.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I didn't really I had a choice. I was literally trapped.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
On an island at that point. There was nowhere to run,
and I was scared to death of saying no, I'm
not going to do it. I didn't have it in
Me'd be like, no way, you know, I just couldn't
do it. I just froze and just went with her.
And then what happened, Well, like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein,
it was a real massage. It really was. It was playful,
(29:55):
and he was funny, and he was now asking personal,
flirty questions, and you know, he tries to make it
seem like it's no big deal. You know, that's how
he is, until then he turns. There's a little darkness.
There's a little there's a lot of darkness in Jeffrey Epstein.
So he has this mask. If I'm your mentor, I'm
going to help you out. I'm this great, caring, wonderful person.
(30:19):
Look at all my rich, powerful friends. He has a
six steer that pools, you know, young women in because
he makes them feel really safe, and he makes you
feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then there's
a darkness that which is when he just wants to
get what he wants and so he loves massages. He does.
That is his baseline is massages. But then it always
(30:39):
switches until some type of a little bit of torture,
you know, if he wants to hurt you a little
bit with his with his hands and with objects, and
with the fact that he can control the two young
women in the room. So it was it was scary.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
It was.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I just I'm traumatized every time I think about it. And
I know you have to ask these questions, but it
was just the worst night of my life.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
What do you mean by.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Power and control over the women and hurting them?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I think people just think of Jeffrey as like
this old rich guy just wanted to be around these girls.
He was a master manipulator. And if you could manipulate
and basically groom grown powerful men, which is what he did.
Because nobody even knows what he did. He's so mysterious.
(31:36):
What do you think he can do to young girls?
I mean, what do you think he was doing to us?
And they try to blame us and victimize us and
just say that you should have know. I had so
many comments. You shouldn't known better. Oh you just wanted money.
Oh no, we did not want money, and we did
not know better. It was any situation that could have
been normal. It could have been normal trip, just like
(31:59):
every other one I've been on with people, powerful people
in the malling and entertainment industry. They don't turn out
like this. But Jeffrey has an mo. He does massages
with young girls, and then he gets them to trust them,
He grooms them, He gets them to believe they're powerful
and they could do anything in their lives. I'm speaking
for the eighteen and over in New York and a
(32:22):
lot of actually actually a lot of the younger girls
said the same thing too. But he just masterfully manipulates
you and then he takes what he wants from you,
which is your innocence. And at that age I was
still pretty innocent. I was also five feet nine and
one hundred and fifteen pounds. It look like a little boy,
so he knew what he was doing.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Lisa, did he molest you? Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And then you said the secretary would then call you
non stop to get you to bring other girls women
to the island. I'm getting ahead of myself after he
molested you. I'm sorry, you know. I'm asking you this, Lisa,
(33:13):
because people don't think it happened, because Pam Bondy has
her thumb up her rear end, because no one is
doing anything, because Glaine Maxwell is on the verge of
walking free. I'm not letting it go because there are
(33:34):
other clients that statutory raped girls and that forced young
women into unwanted sex. That's rape, and nothing is being done.
And I don't get it. I don't get why we're
being lied to. And I see you sitting there crying,
(33:59):
and it's like pouring gas on a fire.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
To me to think nothing has been done. Nothing. I
also don't believe he committed suicide. This totally es yes
back to you after he molested you. What did he do?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Did he give you money? Did he act like nothing happened?
Did he act like you're on a first date? What
did he do?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
It's just masterfully genius the way he is. You called
it out, just acts like there was nothing wrong with this.
I mean, Jeffrey would say, I mean, you're just gonna
go hang out with a twenty four year old guy
who's going to use and abuse you. What's the difference.
You're going to hang out with me and get something
out of it. He used to say stuff like that.
It's like, huh, hanging out out with me.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
It's very different from me raping you. And let me
be clear, a digital rape, fingers, a rate with a
six toy, rape with a penis, vaginal, anal, that's all rape.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
That is all rape. So I don't care how it's packaged.
That is rape. If it is against.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Your desire, it is rape and a story.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
So his rationale was, Hey, you're just gonna get used.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
By guy younger than me, and he won't do anything
for you. Say, you might as well let me rape
you and I'll help you get a modeling gig.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Seriously, you know, Nancy, you know I interviewed many Larry
Nassar victims and they were all young girls, and he
also digitally raped them too. He wasn't penetrating them. He
was doing everything with his hands, and he was raping
all those young girls to hundreds of them. So people
need to understand that a lot of these serial predators,
(35:52):
they do things with their hands and tools. They don't
always penetrate, and it is rape. He is violating your body.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I just want to make sure people know that do
your boys know anything about what you're going through? Do
they know that you're speaking out against a very bad
person and really against the US attorney who is not
doing anything.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Of course they know. They know everything. I have told
my boys everything. I'm very transparent because they can see
me suffering through it. They can see the pain. You know.
They love me, so you know, and I don't have
a lot of family that supports me and calls me
and checks on me, sees how I'm doing and says
I'm proud of you. I just I've never had that,
(36:39):
which is why I was an easy target for Jeffrey
Epstein because he could feel by the questions he asked
me that night, if I was protected? Did I have
a father in the picture who was calling me all
the time, that was supporting me. He went after victims.
He knew who to choose, the ones who didn't really
have a strong wrong family or especially a father figure
(37:03):
in their life. And I had a wonderful father. Don't
see that, Lisa, Well yeah, yeah, he asked me. Oh yeah,
that's why I said he was master manipulator.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
He literally asked.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Me, what's your family like, Like, what's your family life like?
How did you grow up? You know, how often do
you talk your dad? How often does he call you?
He asked me all these questions about my father, and
I remember thinking he hit me emotionally because I have
a wonderful father, you know, took me all around the world,
and you know it was coach soccer and things like that.
(37:35):
It had a great father, But there was no emotional accountability.
There was nothing saying, hey, I'm proud of you, you
know I love you. I didn't get that type of
emotional attention that I desperately needed. And when Jeffrey fed
that to me that night, within a few hours, it
was like I was bonded to him because he gave
me everything, like a fatherly mentor that I was craving
(37:57):
for most of my life. Then he knew what to do.
And that's how they manipulate you. They know where to
get you. That's what it was confusing later on, when
who did that to me?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Lisa, listening to you,
I don't know how anyone can disbelieve.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
That Jeffrey Epstein is the devil, and that.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
There are other clients that have not been held accountable
and didn't end when Jeffrey Epstein died. There are hundreds
of other wealthy or powerful men that have committed rape
and probably statutory rape.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
And nothing is being done.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I don't understand how prosecutors, the US Attorney and more
can live with that after they hear.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
What you're saying.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I mean to me that just poor salt in your wound,
that no one is doing anything.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
And that's the reason why survivors are coming forward is
not because we want to tell our story. I do
not want to tell my story over and over. The
reason why I come forward is because I believe the
other survivors because it also happened to me. I came
forward Virginia Jufray when she spoke out about a few
(39:33):
powerful people, but one in particular. I saw him on
the island that day. You know I'm talking about Nancy.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I want to know, are you talking about Prince Andrew.
He already had a multimillion dollar settlement with Virginia's your
Frey and now just when she's got the money, the house,
the peace of mind, suddenly she commits suicide. Yeah not,
but that said you witnessed Andrew there on the island.
Is that true? Jeffery introduced me to a prince on
(40:00):
the island. That's all I can say.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
When I told him I lived in Oxford, England as
a child, I was like, I lived in Oxford, England
as a child. So and he was on the island
and he said, do you want to meet a prince?
And I was like sure, and that was the man
that I met.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And then it was Prince Andrew.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I just I don't care.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I mean, I know you're talking about Andrew, but why
are you afraid to say it was Andrew?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I have a really hard time geting space in front
of that.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Most survivors, all of us survivors, are afraid to say
any names for obvious, obvious reason.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Okay, I'll say it for you. Prince Andrew was there
that night.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Can I get back to Epstein's. I know you don't
want to say Andrew. I'll say it for you. And
you know what, Andrew, if you don't like it, bring
it on.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Question with the secretary that barraged you with phone calls?
What did she want you get away? You get away
from him, you get back to New York. What happens then?
What did the secretary say?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, went back to New York. Thought everything was going
to be fine. Wanted to get on with my life.
I started going out a little bit more and trying
to suppress this terrible memory. And then they would call.
I mean, they would harass me every single week, several
times a week, and they didn't give up. And I
(41:25):
always wondered why. I mean, I know now why is
because of who I saw on the island were very
important people, even the underage girls that were there. He
wanted me to be quiet, so he was desperate for
me to further groom me and make sure I was
in his little circle, so to speak. So it was
(41:47):
four months. I know it was four months because Jeffrey
called me and said, you know, it's been four months.
Why haven't you come to see me. You know, we
had a great conversation on the island and he said,
you know what, really good friends with Katie Ford, and
you told me on the island that your dream was
to become a Ford model. He's like, I can help
you out. I'm going to have you go over and
(42:09):
meet with eighty Ford this week. And so I was thinking, Wow,
he listened to me. He can't possibly be a bad guy. Now,
maybe I was wrong about him. Maybe it was all
my fault what happened on the island. Maybe I was
flirting with him. I just started irrationalize in my head
because he's so smart. I mean, he's such a genius.
(42:31):
He listened to me on that island. He remembered exactly
what I said my big dream was. I remember, I
told you he helps people out because he can, because
he has the kindest heart in the world, just because
he can. And so he made that happen for me,
And so I hung up the phone. Next next thing,
the four Modeling agency was calling me to make an
(42:53):
appointment for me to go in and meet with the
owner of the agency. And I'm just like, what, this
is so awesome. So, I mean, that's how he got me.
I went in. I met with Katie Ford, and the
first thing she said was I love Jeffrey. He's the best.
He's such a great guy. And everyone talked so highly
of Everyone spoke highly of Jeffrey Epstein during that time.
(43:15):
So I was just like, oh, maybe's maybe something's wrong
with me, Like, why was I the only one, and
I started thinking I was the only one that he
did that too, maybe because I wasn't blonde and he
just wanted to. We had a kink, you know, because
I'm like this multi racial brown girl here at the island,
this vivacious girl. I don't know, I just I rationalized
it in so many ways that I just thought, Wow,
(43:38):
he's doing something for me. So I went and met
with Katie Ford and started this relationship with four models
where I took my career to the next level. So
I was always thankful for that introduction from Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I'm just trying to take in what you're saying, Lisa,
because a lot of this I've never heard before, and
I have been exhaustively investigating what I can. It's much
bigger than any of us knew.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Nancy, but I've been saying this for years, and nobody
wants to listen because they just focus on the underage
girls in Florida. And of course there were miners, but
I would keep telling people eighteen to twenty four in
New York, there were hundreds of them. Just the majority
of them will never come forward because I told you
they have good lives now and they've moved on, which
(44:31):
that's great, But I said in my speech in front
of Congress, I said that this goes darker and deeper,
and this is about the mauling industry as well. I
named a name, but nobody wants to focus on that.
But if they did, some dame they would find, they
would find a lot I do.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That's the whole point of demanding these files being released
is to find out who Epstein's clients were. You know
of several women that were trafficked out to wealthy clients
to go have sex with them.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yes, and they're in the emails, Nancy. Something you see
if they look at the emails from Jeffrey epste and
it would corroborate everything that I'm saying. And Jeffrey videoed
everything in his house. I saw cameras everywhere. So I mean,
the evidence is there.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
But they don't want us to have the evidence.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Two things, how does it make you feel to know
the evidence exists.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
And no one's doing anything about it.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Well, it doesn't feel good, Nancy, doesn't feel good because
we want answers too. There's a lot of confusion for
us as well, not just for survivors. But I think
the American people have a right to understand what's going
on in our country.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Another thing you said, and I've heard it over and
over and over, and it has been felt by people,
other women. You'd really be surprised at whom I'm talking
about that feel as if it was their fault. Did
(46:17):
I lead him on? Did I make this happen? What
did I do wrong? And of course I know that
you know, Lisa up here, that that's wrong, that's incorrect,
that's bast awkwards. But there's something about sex attack victims
always believing somehow it's their fault. What is your message tonight, Lisa?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
It is not your fault. It took me a long
time to get there. And sometimes it's just seeing other survivors.
Sometimes you just need to connect with other survivors, whether
it's Epstein or any other serial predator, or anyone who
can listen to you. You need support and you need
to find the community. And you're not alone. You are
(47:09):
not alone to.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
All the survivors out there. Right now we are speaking
with Lisa Phillips who survived Epstein. I beg you, even now,
even in face of our government not pursuing this, please
(47:33):
stay strong and keep the faith. I believe that somehow,
some way, this case will be investigated with or without
Bondie Lisa, thank you for being with us, and thank
you for being brave for other crime victims to see
(47:55):
you and hear you and understand what you've been through,
what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey
Epstein and ga Laine Maxwell. But yet you are still
fighting the fight.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Thank you. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein, victim fights back
and Tonight tells her story. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So I was on a photo shoot in early two
thousand and another young blonde Polish model said, you know,
I have a friend who owns island. He's been so
wonderful to me. He got me my visa to live
in the United States. I just said, okay, sure, I'll
go with you. A young blonde girl knocked on my
door and told myself that Jeffrey needed a massage.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
A massage.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Well, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. A massage
with Jeffrey Epstein turns into full on rape. Why is
someone covering for Jeffrey Epstein? Why have we been lied
to over and over and over? When I say the
(00:59):
US attorney, a lot of people are like, what's the
US attorney? The US attorney is the top cop for
our nation, our whole country. Now, state to state, you
may have one or more US attorneys. They are federal
prosecutors appointed to prosecute the state's business and represent victims.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
For instance, in Georgia.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
There are three, the Northern, Middle, and Southern District US Attorneys.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
In every state.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
There are US attorneys and they are all governed by one,
the US attorney. Now, I want you to hear what
the US attorney Bondi said about having a client list
and all the steam files right on her desk.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Okay, listen, the.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
DOJ may be released the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Well, that really happen.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's
been a directive by President Trump. It goes on and
on and on.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
But that's the pertinent part, and that is from our
friend John Roberts over at Fox News. We were told
there's video, there are flight logs, there are names of clients.
Now we're being told, yeah, I don't know why I
said that. Don't listen to me, that's wrong. But tonight
joining us is a woman that knows better. Now, who
(02:36):
are we going to believe her or BONDI? What is
the truth at this hour as we go to air tonight,
victims Epstein victims are banding together to create a client list.
I'm going to get to that in just a moment,
But first I want to introduce you a very special guest.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
A Jeffrey Epstein survivor. I hate to always say.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Victim because Lisa Phillips has gone on to become a warrior.
Yes she's a mother of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous
former Ford Agency model. Yes, she's been in a major
motion picture among many things. Any given Sunday, a lot
(03:26):
of people have seen that she's in it. She's beautiful,
she's accomplished, she's articulate. She's also a Jeffrey Epstein victim
now survivor, slash warrior.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Lisa, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Thank you, Nancy, and thank you for calling me a warrior.
That means so much to me, especially in this climate
right now.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You are you know, all over our country, Lisa. Sex
attack victims don't speak out for a number of reasons.
I mean I could rattle off many many cases that
I personally investigated and prosecuted where the victim did not
want to.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Come forward for so many different reasons.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Okay, I had one victim that was repeatedly raped, ag assaulted,
and locked into a car trunk, and she and her
culture believed to be raped was taboo and that she
was the.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Bad person, that it was all her fault.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So on the stand and her husband was sitting there,
she did not want him or anybody else to know
she was raped.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
We could talk about.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
The agassault, the beating, the tying of the hands, the putting.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
In the trunk, but we couldn't talk about the rape.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
She would not admit it, even though she secretly told
people she was raped, and the rape kit nurse agreed
she had been raped.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
So, I mean, there's.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
A million reasons why victims don't come forward. Sometimes they're afraid. Sometimes,
like in your case, we already know of estimating between
five and twenty people have died connected to the Epstein case.
So you are representing victims of assault and attack, and
(05:16):
they're listening to you tonight, and they're looking at you,
and they're seeing you speak out. I want to go
back in time. Oh, by the way, did I mention?
Lisa is a host of a hit podcast called From
now On, where she interviews other crime victims and talks
(05:36):
about moving forward. Now, let's talk about moving forward the
Jeffrey Epstein case. How did you meet Jeffrey Epstein? Mayhe
rot in hell?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well? I just want to say thank you for that intro.
The survivors are here because we are fed up and
we are not victims. We do not like to be
called victims. We are survivors. And what that means is
we are on the path of healing and making choices
(06:11):
that will move the investigation along because we feel like
we have answers that can help. And so this whole time,
we're thinking, wait a second, you know this person, you
saw this person, you were at the island, you were there.
How can we connect the dots? And so that's what
we realized. You know what, We're taking our power back
(06:33):
because what happened to me on that island back in
two thousand should have never have happened. I was brought
there by another young girl. And that was the genius
of Jeffrey Epstein's sex trafficking ring, as he got other
girls and young women to bring more. And there was
this layers and layers of girls. As you hear the
(06:54):
young Florida girls, they all were brought there by other
young underage girls. And the same with me on the island.
I was brought there by another girl in her early
twenties who thought Jeffrey was the world. I mean, she
was groomed to think that. But you know, she convinced me, Oh,
it's not a big deal to jump on a boat
(07:15):
and go over to an island and see this wonderful
person and hang out for the day. So that's what
I did.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So when you flew, when you were flown to the island,
what do you think was going to happen, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Nancy, I took a boat to the island because I
was next I was at Tortola, the island next door.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Hold on, that's significant. Why is that significant? How you
got to the island Because a lot of these girls,
as young as twelve years old were brought in from
other countries, particularly the stands Uzbekistan, from Turkey, from Russia.
They were flown yes to the mainland, and then they
(07:57):
were put on a ferry that ferried them over to
Epstein's Island in the US. Virgin Islands, by the way,
is under US jurisdiction, so we can prosecute cases there.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
You're right.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I'm glad you said that, because when I try case,
I like to corroborate in my witness because every victim
is going to be attacked on cross examination, and we
just saw that in the Shawn Comes case, the two
victims had.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Photos and videos of them being beaten, covered in bruises.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
They described vomiting after attacks in the shower and being
forced out back into a.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Freak off party, i e. Rape.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Even then, the jury believed that they were on the take,
that this was all about them getting some kind of
money settlement. So, long story short, I try to corroborate
victims even when I believe them for the jury. What
you just said is what all these then little girls
said they were loan to the mainland and then they
were ferried to the island. Is that an element of
(09:06):
proof of a felony? No, but it corroborates their story.
So tell me how that worked. Every fact is important, Lisa.
So you're flown to.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The mainland and then you take a ferry. Is that
what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yes, yes, basically the same thing. I was on the
US version islands as well and as well and taken
by boat over to his island. What kind of boat
like a ferry boat?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So somebody picked you up at a dock, you got on,
they took you over, and they dropped you off at an
appointed spot.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's correct?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you
haven't even spoken to or or you don't know their names.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
So amazing how your.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Stories already are like a fingerprint story.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
They fit exactly.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Okay, you get to Epstein's island and what happens.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Well, An, That's the.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Reason why I started speaking out in the first place,
is because when I would hear the victim's story, I
would say, wait a second, that happened to me too,
you know, so it would happen over and over with
that happened to me, Or you know, I can I
can stand up for them, you know, I can be
the one to stick up for them. That's what I
was thinking in the beginning, but it hasn't really turned
(10:19):
out that way. So on the island, we actually had
a really good time on the island for the first
several hours, hanging out at the pool, and you know,
we had a wonderful dinner where I met Jeffrey Epstein.
And Jeffrey is charming and he's very intelligent, and he's
locked in on you. He already knew all the other
(10:41):
young girls at the table, so he locked in on me.
You know, I had grown up in Oxford, England as
a child, and so we had that connection. And I
knew a lot about art, and I had traveled around
the world quite a bit already at that point, and
so we had a lot to talk about. And he
said he found me fascinating, and he said I was
(11:02):
at a powerful presence. He said all these wonderful things
to me, and he just built me up.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And wait a minute, White a manu at White, a
minute at hold on Hold a Ford model for twelve years,
you don't know when some man is blowing smoke up
your skirt you have a powerful presence.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
What does that even mean?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Well, I wasn't a Ford model yet. I wasn't a
Ford model yet. And I was like, you know, I
had grown up, I had left, I grow I graduate
high school in Belgium with fifty people. So I was
a little naive. And also I didn't have that confidence
that a lot of girls that have wonderful fathers that
are calling them every day and building them up and
saying I'm proud of you. And I had I think
(11:41):
low self esteem when it came to men, because I
just didn't have that father daughter relationship that was powerful
and strong and made me feel confident. I think I
just always felt a little worthless, and that you know,
I could never be enough for my family or for
my father.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And so attention you, Lisa Phillips. Okay, do I have
the right Lisa Phillips. This is the woman that started
in any given Sunday and it's four model, twelve years and.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
You felt insecure? What does that? I mean?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What does that leave me and everybody else just as
mere mortals? Okay, so you feel insecure. So you and
we're very young and a very sheltered upbringing. So when
someone talks to you like that and gives you this attention,
you were still what were you twenty one?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, that was in my early twenties.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, you were flattered. You were flattered. You said something earlier.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
About the genius of Jeffrey Epstein, how he would get
young girls to bring in other girls, and I wanted
everyone to keep in mind that the young girls were
very often as young as thirteen. Now you just said
(12:58):
something that again echoes exactly what other Epstein victims have said.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I want you to listen. Listen to this.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein
undressed and asked me to do things to him. My
eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been
more scared in my life. When it was over, he
paid me two hundred dollars and requested in exchange that
(13:26):
I bring a girl each time to make another two
hundred dollars. I told him I did not want to
do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I
felt in hope to never hear from him again, but
he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful,
and he would not let me goet. I had no
choice if I disobeyed him. I knew something bad would happen.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's exactly what Lisa Phillips is saying she observed, and
a completely different location at a different time. Now, what
you were hearing is from at Rep. Thomas Massey on
X and you were hearing Haley Robson talking about when
she first met Epstein, she was a little girl and
he raped her, gave her two hundred dollars, like throwing
(14:10):
down a twenty at the waffle house. You know, big
man throwing around two hundred dollars to a little girl,
and he was asking the little girl, now adult Hallie
Robson to bring other little girls in for him to rape,
and I want you to hear what happened.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I started to bring him other girls from my high school,
and he paid me two hundred dollars two hundred dollars
for bringing them. I just hoped each time it would
be the last time. One day, the stepmom of one
of the girls brought him and called the police on
Jeffrey Epstein. The police then called me, called me in
for questioning. I had told them the truth, despite the
(14:48):
fact that I was a teenager and a miner, and
I was able to tell the police the names of
all the other victims.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
And she goes on Lisa to state, the police made
me feel like I was the criminal because I, as
a girl, had brought him other girls. But he made
me and somehow she turns into the bad person and
he doesn't get prosecuted down there in Palm Beach County.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Again, that's from at Rep.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Thomas Massey on X That mirrors exactly what you called
the genius. I guess, evil genius Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It was. It was evil genius. He had it down
so good that he made the girls feel guilty for
bringing other girls. But he made you do that, and
like she said, he would call you every day. His
secretaries would call every single day. They would hound you.
When I got back from the island, they hounded me
(15:46):
for four months straight every day until I would change
my mind to go in and meet with him again.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Okay, wait a minute, let me circle back to when
you met with him the first time. So we left
off with you being told you had a powerful presence.
I mean, right there, I would say, no, got to
get powerful presence, my rare end.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
But what happened after that?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Jeffrey always said things to build you up, so he
was more of a mentor to a lot of these
girls when we were sitting together at Capitol Hill. You
have to understand it is a very confusing thing because
you know his grooming process is to eventually abuse you,
but in between, he's like a wonderful mentor, so he
(16:33):
builds you up the way you've never been built up before.
Whoa hold on seems in.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Your alformation Jeffrey eb saying a mentor. Okay, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I know he promised to get people jobs and modeling
gigs and parts on movies.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Did he ever come through with any of that?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
One hundred percent. I've never spoken to anyone in his
world that he didn't come through on everything. He said.
That's the reason why he got away with everything, because
he made everything happen.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So he would set people up with gigs and get
them actual jobs.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Well, I don't know about gigs, but if you were
interested in law, he helped you out. If you're interested
in art, he helped you out with getting a position
at art gallery. I know TV hosts, actresses, many women
who have successful businesses because of Jeffrey. Actually, I know
many that have husbands because of Jeffrey as well. So
he did do a lot of good things for you
(17:30):
because he had to, because that's how what you had
to do is let him ripe you. Yeah, I mean
he was also very sneaky about that. With massages, it
was always a massage. It was always a real massage,
you know. So that's what these girls are saying. And
I was hoping it was the last time I would
have this massage. And then sometimes a massage would turn
it into molestation or rape. Jeffrey is ready for his massage.
(17:53):
I was just like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
What massage?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
The other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes, you know, massages,
you just have to do it. I was trapped on
the island. I didn't know where to go. I just,
you know, follow the girl into his room to do
the massage with this other young girl, and I ended
up being abused on that island.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So, guys, Lisa Phillips with us tonight, just amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Beautiful, articulate, brilliant, has seen the world and is.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
A survivor of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You know, I was just thinking about, as I was
rattling off all your accomplishments earlier, what do you make
of so many Epstein victims dying? I feel like we're
in Russia. Whenever anyone speaks ill of Putin, they suddenly
jump out a window and die, or they get poison
and die. A lot of suicides connected to Putin. I mean,
(18:47):
I'm going to go hide under the bed after tonight.
But what do you make of so many people? I
can count off five just on my off the top
of my head. But I've read other reports up in
the twenties. I mean, you've got Virginia Giffrey, you have
Jean Luke Brunei that was his French counterpart, Renell his
(19:09):
French counterpart. I mean, there's so many other reports up
to twenty. Do you ever think about that you have
three boys to raise and victims are dropping like flies
before they can testify. Does that concern you?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Well, I mean, I knew Virginia, and I've spoken a
lot to her family and all of her friends and survivors,
and unfortunately there's quite a few survivors that have passed away.
But I mean, I hope it wasn't anything darker. But
what we believe with the cycle of abuse is it's
(19:47):
something that you just never get over and it torments you.
And certain individuals they can't take it and they can't
take their life. And like Virginia, she was fighting so
hard to bring these powerful men down and she was
just losing every fight. And no amount of money is
going to say to you and keep you happy. It
just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Lisa, speaking of all of the people that have committed
suicide or died accidentally connected to the Epstein case, I
was first referring to Epstein's French counterpart, Jean Luke Brennell.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
When Epstein was in jail in Florida in two thousand
and eight, Jean Luke Brenell visited him seventy times. Virginia
Giuffrey alleged that she was sexually trafficked by Epstein and
Maxwell to several high profile individuals, including Brunell, while she
was under age. After Epstein's death, Brunell went into hiding.
He was arrested December sixteenth, twenty twenty, investigated for rape,
(20:43):
sexual assault, in human trafficking, and charged with drugging and
raping a seventeen year old girl. Brunell was found dead
in his berege In jail cell, allegedly hanging himself two
years after Epstein's death.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And in addition to Jean Luke Brenell, there is Carolyn Andriano.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
Carolyn Andreano and continued to abuse her for the next
four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial for
sex trafficking minors. Carol and Andreano found dead in a
West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age of
thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children. West
Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So we've got one suicide of Jean Luke Brenell, then
we have one accidental overdose of Carolyn Andreano.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Carolyn Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have died
of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
Sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Patrick says,
leet guy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
And then, of course there are questions still swirling about
the death off Virginia Giffrey.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
Royal experts say the death of Virginia Jeffrey cements Prince
Andrew's place of shame with no hope of ever rehabilitating
his image. The ball was fast, as Virginia Jeffrey not
only accused the Prince of sexual abuse, she had a
picture taken with the fallen royal on the cover of
every news outlet in the world. When Epstein was arrested,
Royal expert Richard Fitzwilliams tells Fox News Digital Virginia Jeffrey
(22:33):
was ultimately a tragic victim of a brutal pedophile. Any
hope Andrew may have had of casting doubt on her
evidence no longer exists. Prince Andrew's stripped of his royal
and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates more negativity as the
allegations jump back into the headlines. According to one royal watcher,
Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him, but merely closes the matter.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
And then, last but not least, Jeffrey Epstein himself come
in suicide.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
There's no way the guy can commit suicide from the
clothing they gave him, to the types of sheet that
he had to cover himself with while he slapped. It
was described as something a little bit thicker than paper,
but not strong enough to hold the weight of an individual.
There are no bars in the cell, there's no light fixtures.
There's nothing that you can tie on to if you
had something to tie up and make a noose. His
(23:21):
former cellmate said, there was no way this could happen. Now.
The guards is supposed to be looking in on him
every couple of minutes. They were supposed to be viewed
physically every twenty minutes. So you've got an impossible situation
being sold to the public as reality.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So Lisa, neither you nor I, neither of us are
forensic experts. But I find it hard to believe that
between five and twenty people have all died of accidental
overdoses and suicides, all connected to Epstein.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Back to that night when you met Epstein. Okay, you
stay that you were told, Hey, it's just a massage,
you have to do it.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Who tells you that?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
The girl who brought me there?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
How did she bring you there? How did that happen?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
We were both booked for a photoshoot on Tortola Island.
It was a British crew. We were both shooting covers
of the magazine and a full on story spread inside.
So we were booked for four days on that island.
Then we had one day that was off, and so
that's why she suggested that we go over to Jeffrey's
(24:34):
Island for the day.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
How does she know Epstein?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
She was Eastern European and a lot of young models
that have agencies in Europe, probably linked to Jean luth Burnelle,
but I'm not sure if she is, but I know
quite a few of them were. They helped them to
come over and Jeffrey secure as their visa for them.
So once they do that, of course they're very grateful
(24:58):
to Jeffrey for that, but then can continue to abuse
them and traffic those girls out, so they're stuck in
this cycle. So that's why she has this loop going, Oh,
he's great, He's wonderful, because yeah, part of her probably
does believe because he has helped her out immensely with
her life, but he's abusing her. And I know for
sure she was being trafficked.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
When you say trafficked, what exactly do you.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Mean, Well, Jeffery's other powerful friends. She would have to
go and spend time with them. He would make her
go spend time with them.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
What did they do? Sit by the fireside and knit?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Unfortunately, most of the time it ends in some type
of sexual assault.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
We Lisa, how do you know that I knew.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
A lot of people in New York back then. I
have a very outgoing personality. I love people, and I
just knew a lot of models and ambitious young women
during that time. And I know at least sixty that
have never come forward because they have good lives and
they don't. They want to forget about it, and they
want to suppress it, and they're comfortable doing that. And
(26:06):
I sometimes I think it I would have been better
if I had done that.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Lisa, Why do you say that, well, just because that
sometimes you think it would have been better if you
just never said anything.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Oh, Nancy, you know it's you know, I suppressed it
for fifteen years, and I feel like my life was
so much better when you just act like nothing happened,
you know, But the shame is always there, you know,
it's there, and the confusion was always there for me.
And so I could have been like a lot of
these girls, hundreds of them in New York, hundreds of
(26:37):
them eighteen to twenty four. I would think there was
even more in New York than there wasn't Florida, because
you can get away with a lot more with eighteen
to twenty two year olds. So those women, they went
on to do wonderful things with their life. They were
beautiful and tall and attractive, and they got a lot
of good things from Jeffrey. In a way, their life
(26:59):
is good. But I think most of them, when you
suppress that pain, you have that shame that's still there,
and many things manifest from that illness, disease, mental illness
and things like that. So you know, it's sometimes I
just say that, Nancy, just because maybe I shouldn't have
taken this path. I mean, now that I've gone, you know,
(27:22):
to DC, this has secured it for me that I'm
on the right path, But prior to that, sometimes I'm like,
why am I doing this to myself? Why am I
in four hours a week of therapy talking about this.
You know, it's tough. It's not easy to go through
healing and therapy, Lisa.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I've met so many crime victims say exactly what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Me.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I hate it when someone out of the believe asked
me about my fiancees murder, because I can be having
a perfectly fine day and then that happens, and more
often than not, it's like somebody just threw a bucket
of water on me, and I have to think about
it him getting shot over and over and over, and
what did he feel, and did he know what happened
(28:08):
and how badly did it hurt? And what life would
have been like if he hadn't been murdered, and just
it's really upsetting, and you go right back to the
moment that everything happened.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
So I hear you. I hear you.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And with rape victims especially, they also, in addition to
what I just said, feel like it's their fault, like
I went to the island, or I went to his mansion.
Of course he thought we were going to have six.
That's just completely beast atwards. But that is how rape
victims feel. They feel like it's their fault.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
I keep getting you right to the point where you're
on the island with another supermodel like yourself, and she says, oh,
he's great, Oh he's wonderful. How in the hat did
it get to You've got to give him a massage.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Just like that. It was so quick, it was a
wonderful day, just a normal day. And then right when
it was time, everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole
island looked different. The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation,
in the anxiousness of like, what the frick is going
on here? And I'm looking at her and I could
(29:20):
see she has a little fear in her eyes. You know,
something was wrong with her because she didn't want to
do it, you know, But it's just something. She took
a deep breath and she was like, we have to
do it, and so I just went with her because.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
I didn't really I had a choice. I was literally trapped.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
On an island at that point. There was nowhere to run,
and I was scared to death of saying no, I'm
not going to do it. I didn't have it in
Me'd be like, no way, you know, I just couldn't
do it. I just froze and just went with her.
And then what happened, Well, like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein,
it was a real massage. It really was. It was playful,
(29:55):
and he was funny, and he was now asking personal,
flirty questions, and you know, he tries to make it
seem like it's no big deal. You know, that's how
he is, until then he turns. There's a little darkness.
There's a little there's a lot of darkness in Jeffrey Epstein.
So he has this mask. If I'm your mentor, I'm
going to help you out. I'm this great, caring, wonderful person.
(30:19):
Look at all my rich, powerful friends. He has a
six steer that pools, you know, young women in because
he makes them feel really safe, and he makes you
feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then there's
a darkness that which is when he just wants to
get what he wants and so he loves massages. He does.
That is his baseline is massages. But then it always
(30:39):
switches until some type of a little bit of torture,
you know, if he wants to hurt you a little
bit with his with his hands and with objects, and
with the fact that he can control the two young
women in the room. So it was it was scary.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
It was.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I just I'm traumatized every time I think about it. And
I know you have to ask these questions, but it
was just the worst night of my life.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
What do you mean by.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Power and control over the women and hurting them?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I think people just think of Jeffrey as like
this old rich guy just wanted to be around these girls.
He was a master manipulator. And if you could manipulate
and basically groom grown powerful men, which is what he did.
Because nobody even knows what he did. He's so mysterious.
(31:36):
What do you think he can do to young girls?
I mean, what do you think he was doing to us?
And they try to blame us and victimize us and
just say that you should have know. I had so
many comments. You shouldn't known better. Oh you just wanted money.
Oh no, we did not want money, and we did
not know better. It was any situation that could have
been normal. It could have been normal trip, just like
(31:59):
every other one I've been on with people, powerful people
in the malling and entertainment industry. They don't turn out
like this. But Jeffrey has an mo. He does massages
with young girls, and then he gets them to trust them,
He grooms them, He gets them to believe they're powerful
and they could do anything in their lives. I'm speaking
for the eighteen and over in New York and a
(32:22):
lot of actually actually a lot of the younger girls
said the same thing too. But he just masterfully manipulates
you and then he takes what he wants from you,
which is your innocence. And at that age I was
still pretty innocent. I was also five feet nine and
one hundred and fifteen pounds. It look like a little boy,
so he knew what he was doing.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Lisa, did he molest you? Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And then you said the secretary would then call you
non stop to get you to bring other girls women
to the island. I'm getting ahead of myself after he
molested you. I'm sorry, you know. I'm asking you this, Lisa,
(33:13):
because people don't think it happened, because Pam Bondy has
her thumb up her rear end, because no one is
doing anything, because Glaine Maxwell is on the verge of
walking free. I'm not letting it go because there are
(33:34):
other clients that statutory raped girls and that forced young
women into unwanted sex. That's rape, and nothing is being done.
And I don't get it. I don't get why we're
being lied to. And I see you sitting there crying,
(33:59):
and it's like pouring gas on a fire.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
To me to think nothing has been done. Nothing. I
also don't believe he committed suicide. This totally es yes
back to you after he molested you. What did he do?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Did he give you money? Did he act like nothing happened?
Did he act like you're on a first date? What
did he do?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
It's just masterfully genius the way he is. You called
it out, just acts like there was nothing wrong with this.
I mean, Jeffrey would say, I mean, you're just gonna
go hang out with a twenty four year old guy
who's going to use and abuse you. What's the difference.
You're going to hang out with me and get something
out of it. He used to say stuff like that.
It's like, huh, hanging out out with me.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
It's very different from me raping you. And let me
be clear, a digital rape, fingers, a rate with a
six toy, rape with a penis, vaginal, anal, that's all rape.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
That is all rape. So I don't care how it's packaged.
That is rape. If it is against.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Your desire, it is rape and a story.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
So his rationale was, Hey, you're just gonna get used.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
By guy younger than me, and he won't do anything
for you. Say, you might as well let me rape
you and I'll help you get a modeling gig.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Seriously, you know, Nancy, you know I interviewed many Larry
Nassar victims and they were all young girls, and he
also digitally raped them too. He wasn't penetrating them. He
was doing everything with his hands, and he was raping
all those young girls to hundreds of them. So people
need to understand that a lot of these serial predators,
(35:52):
they do things with their hands and tools. They don't
always penetrate, and it is rape. He is violating your body.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I just want to make sure people know that do
your boys know anything about what you're going through? Do
they know that you're speaking out against a very bad
person and really against the US attorney who is not
doing anything.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Of course they know. They know everything. I have told
my boys everything. I'm very transparent because they can see
me suffering through it. They can see the pain. You know.
They love me, so you know, and I don't have
a lot of family that supports me and calls me
and checks on me, sees how I'm doing and says
I'm proud of you. I just I've never had that,
(36:39):
which is why I was an easy target for Jeffrey
Epstein because he could feel by the questions he asked
me that night, if I was protected? Did I have
a father in the picture who was calling me all
the time, that was supporting me. He went after victims.
He knew who to choose, the ones who didn't really
have a strong wrong family or especially a father figure
(37:03):
in their life. And I had a wonderful father. Don't
see that, Lisa, Well yeah, yeah, he asked me. Oh yeah,
that's why I said he was master manipulator.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
He literally asked.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Me, what's your family like, Like, what's your family life like?
How did you grow up? You know, how often do
you talk your dad? How often does he call you?
He asked me all these questions about my father, and
I remember thinking he hit me emotionally because I have
a wonderful father, you know, took me all around the world,
and you know it was coach soccer and things like that.
(37:35):
It had a great father, But there was no emotional accountability.
There was nothing saying, hey, I'm proud of you, you
know I love you. I didn't get that type of
emotional attention that I desperately needed. And when Jeffrey fed
that to me that night, within a few hours, it
was like I was bonded to him because he gave
me everything, like a fatherly mentor that I was craving
(37:57):
for most of my life. Then he knew what to do.
And that's how they manipulate you. They know where to
get you. That's what it was confusing later on, when
who did that to me?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, Lisa, listening to you,
I don't know how anyone can disbelieve.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
That Jeffrey Epstein is the devil, and that.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
There are other clients that have not been held accountable
and didn't end when Jeffrey Epstein died. There are hundreds
of other wealthy or powerful men that have committed rape
and probably statutory rape.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
And nothing is being done.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I don't understand how prosecutors, the US Attorney and more
can live with that after they hear.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
What you're saying.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I mean to me that just poor salt in your wound,
that no one is doing anything.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
And that's the reason why survivors are coming forward is
not because we want to tell our story. I do
not want to tell my story over and over. The
reason why I come forward is because I believe the
other survivors because it also happened to me. I came
forward Virginia Jufray when she spoke out about a few
(39:33):
powerful people, but one in particular. I saw him on
the island that day. You know I'm talking about Nancy.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I want to know, are you talking about Prince Andrew.
He already had a multimillion dollar settlement with Virginia's your
Frey and now just when she's got the money, the house,
the peace of mind, suddenly she commits suicide. Yeah not,
but that said you witnessed Andrew there on the island.
Is that true? Jeffery introduced me to a prince on
(40:00):
the island. That's all I can say.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
When I told him I lived in Oxford, England as
a child, I was like, I lived in Oxford, England
as a child. So and he was on the island
and he said, do you want to meet a prince?
And I was like sure, and that was the man
that I met.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And then it was Prince Andrew.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I just I don't care.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
I mean, I know you're talking about Andrew, but why
are you afraid to say it was Andrew?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
I have a really hard time geting space in front
of that.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Most survivors, all of us survivors, are afraid to say
any names for obvious, obvious reason.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Okay, I'll say it for you. Prince Andrew was there
that night.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Can I get back to Epstein's. I know you don't
want to say Andrew. I'll say it for you. And
you know what, Andrew, if you don't like it, bring
it on.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Question with the secretary that barraged you with phone calls?
What did she want you get away? You get away
from him, you get back to New York. What happens then?
What did the secretary say?
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, went back to New York. Thought everything was going
to be fine. Wanted to get on with my life.
I started going out a little bit more and trying
to suppress this terrible memory. And then they would call.
I mean, they would harass me every single week, several
times a week, and they didn't give up. And I
(41:25):
always wondered why. I mean, I know now why is
because of who I saw on the island were very
important people, even the underage girls that were there. He
wanted me to be quiet, so he was desperate for
me to further groom me and make sure I was
in his little circle, so to speak. So it was
(41:47):
four months. I know it was four months because Jeffrey
called me and said, you know, it's been four months.
Why haven't you come to see me. You know, we
had a great conversation on the island and he said,
you know what, really good friends with Katie Ford, and
you told me on the island that your dream was
to become a Ford model. He's like, I can help
you out. I'm going to have you go over and
(42:09):
meet with eighty Ford this week. And so I was thinking, Wow,
he listened to me. He can't possibly be a bad guy. Now,
maybe I was wrong about him. Maybe it was all
my fault what happened on the island. Maybe I was
flirting with him. I just started irrationalize in my head
because he's so smart. I mean, he's such a genius.
(42:31):
He listened to me on that island. He remembered exactly
what I said my big dream was. I remember, I
told you he helps people out because he can, because
he has the kindest heart in the world, just because
he can. And so he made that happen for me,
And so I hung up the phone. Next next thing,
the four Modeling agency was calling me to make an
(42:53):
appointment for me to go in and meet with the
owner of the agency. And I'm just like, what, this
is so awesome. So, I mean, that's how he got me.
I went in. I met with Katie Ford, and the
first thing she said was I love Jeffrey. He's the best.
He's such a great guy. And everyone talked so highly
of Everyone spoke highly of Jeffrey Epstein during that time.
(43:15):
So I was just like, oh, maybe's maybe something's wrong
with me, Like, why was I the only one, and
I started thinking I was the only one that he
did that too, maybe because I wasn't blonde and he
just wanted to. We had a kink, you know, because
I'm like this multi racial brown girl here at the island,
this vivacious girl. I don't know, I just I rationalized
it in so many ways that I just thought, Wow,
(43:38):
he's doing something for me. So I went and met
with Katie Ford and started this relationship with four models
where I took my career to the next level. So
I was always thankful for that introduction from Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I'm just trying to take in what you're saying, Lisa,
because a lot of this I've never heard before, and
I have been exhaustively investigating what I can. It's much
bigger than any of us knew.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Nancy, but I've been saying this for years, and nobody
wants to listen because they just focus on the underage
girls in Florida. And of course there were miners, but
I would keep telling people eighteen to twenty four in
New York, there were hundreds of them. Just the majority
of them will never come forward because I told you
they have good lives now and they've moved on, which
(44:31):
that's great, But I said in my speech in front
of Congress, I said that this goes darker and deeper,
and this is about the mauling industry as well. I
named a name, but nobody wants to focus on that.
But if they did, some dame they would find, they
would find a lot I do.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
That's the whole point of demanding these files being released
is to find out who Epstein's clients were. You know
of several women that were trafficked out to wealthy clients
to go have sex with them.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yes, and they're in the emails, Nancy. Something you see
if they look at the emails from Jeffrey epste and
it would corroborate everything that I'm saying. And Jeffrey videoed
everything in his house. I saw cameras everywhere. So I mean,
the evidence is there.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
But they don't want us to have the evidence.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Two things, how does it make you feel to know
the evidence exists.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
And no one's doing anything about it.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Well, it doesn't feel good, Nancy, doesn't feel good because
we want answers too. There's a lot of confusion for
us as well, not just for survivors. But I think
the American people have a right to understand what's going
on in our country.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Another thing you said, and I've heard it over and
over and over, and it has been felt by people,
other women. You'd really be surprised at whom I'm talking
about that feel as if it was their fault. Did
(46:17):
I lead him on? Did I make this happen? What
did I do wrong? And of course I know that
you know, Lisa up here, that that's wrong, that's incorrect,
that's bast awkwards. But there's something about sex attack victims
always believing somehow it's their fault. What is your message tonight, Lisa?
Speaker 2 (46:45):
It is not your fault. It took me a long
time to get there. And sometimes it's just seeing other survivors.
Sometimes you just need to connect with other survivors, whether
it's Epstein or any other serial predator, or anyone who
can listen to you. You need support and you need
to find the community. And you're not alone. You are
(47:09):
not alone to.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
All the survivors out there. Right now we are speaking
with Lisa Phillips who survived Epstein. I beg you, even now,
even in face of our government not pursuing this, please
(47:33):
stay strong and keep the faith. I believe that somehow,
some way, this case will be investigated with or without
Bondie Lisa, thank you for being with us, and thank
you for being brave for other crime victims to see
(47:55):
you and hear you and understand what you've been through,
what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey
Epstein and ga Laine Maxwell. But yet you are still
fighting the fight.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Thank you. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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