May 1, 2025 • 42 mins
One of the first and most vocal women to speak out about Jeffrey Epstein's sexual abuse of young girls has died.
Virginia Roberts Giuffre's family first announced she took her own life, but her father is asking for her death be investigated. He tells TMZ, Virginia said if she ever died by suicide, not to believe it.
Giuffre's attorney told The Sun there were no signs she was contemplating suicide, saying, "There's suicide and then there’s misadventure."
Four individuals connected to the Epstein abuse scandal are now dead, including Jeffery Epstein. He committed suicide in prison, but many still question if that's true. Epstein is alleged to have abused dozens of victims by causing them to engage in sex acts with him at his mansion in New York, and at his estate in Palm Beach, Florida.
The victims - all underage girls at the time of the alleged conduct - were given hundreds of dollars in cash after each encounter either by Epstein, or by one of Epstein's employees. The underage girls were initially recruited to provide Epstein with massages, and often did so nude or partially nude. These massages became increasingly sexual in nature, and would typically include one or more sex acts, as specified in the indictment.
As alleged, Epstein also paid certain victims to recruit additional girls to be similarly abused. This allowed Epstein to create an ever-expanding web of new victims.Giuffre was just 17 years old when she was recruited by Ghislaine Maxwell.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Lisa Phillips - Epstein Survivor [met Virginia Giuffre on Epstein Island] and Host of the podcast "From Now On;" Instagram, Facebook & YouTube: @FromNowOnPod,
- Andrea Lewis - Partner at Searcy Law in Pam Beach, Florida, Former Felony Prosecutor at Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office, and President of the Palm Beach County Bar Association
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker, and featured in hit show"Paris in Love" on Peacock ; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Joseph Giacalone - Former NYPD Sergeant SDS, Author of “ The Cold Case Handbook” and “The Criminal Investigative Function: A Guide for New Investigators 4th Edition," and Podcast Host of "True Crime with the Sarge;"YouTube: Joseph Giacalone, X: @JoeGiacalone
- Irv Brandt - Former Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Country Attache, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica. Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” available on Amazon, Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor”
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast: "Mayhem in the Morgue" [launching soon], and Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Lynn Shaw - Founder and Executive Director of Lynn's Warriors, Host of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube; X: @lynns_warriors Youtube: @LynnsWarriors
- Dave Mack - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein's sex assault victim, Virginia
Geffrey is dead, the fourth fourth suicide connected to a
sex ring of the rich and powerful. This as the
(00:23):
FEDS are set to release damning files, pointing the finger
at who darn and now Giffrey won't get to be
a witness? What a kwinki dink? I mean? What are
the Vegas odds that four people connected to the Epstein
(00:47):
sex ring child sex ring die of suicide? What are
the Vegas odds? I'm Nancy Grace, this is christ I
want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Virginia Jeffree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant
in mar A Lago when she is approached by socialite
Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate,
American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Hundred dollars rate permissage.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Virginia eagerly accepts per massage.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
My rear end. This was just a little girl, like
so many of the other little girls that were lured
in by Epstein, whom many insists did not commit suicide
behind bars. Lured in by Epstein and his hitch person
bills above from Hell Jelaine Maxwell. Now she at this
(01:46):
moment is trying to seek a presidential pardon. She was
convicted for her role in this. Wow, do you think
Virginia's testimony could have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon?
Think about it? Joining me an all star panel. But
first to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac,
(02:09):
are you telling me with a straight face? And I'm
not a conspiracy theorist at all, because I don't think
people can keep their pieholds shut long enough for a
conspiracy to actually work. But you're telling me, Dave Mac,
that Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death,
(02:30):
How did she die? Who was with her? Where was she?
Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me
that she was released while suicidal? And where did this
happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population
two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one
(02:50):
hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females,
median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that
in near Gabby Australia. They had a top notch forensics
team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that
she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses,
(03:11):
potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all
die of suicide, you know, Dave Mack and Russia, they
push you out of a window. So Dave Matt tell
me about Virginia's suicide.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Well, what we know about Virginia's suicide Nancy actually comes
from her family because there has been no official cause
of death that has been placed in the public for
any of us to see. It's being used as clickbait
all over. But we don't actually have a real cause
of death yet. What we have is the family saying
she took her own life. We don't know anything more
(03:46):
than that except for this Nancy. She was actually staying
at her face. She was separated from her husband and
staying at their farmhouse, a one point three million dollar
farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that is very lightly populated.
Her brothers were staying with her in this farmhouse. She's
(04:06):
four weeks removed from leaving the hospital, as you mentioned,
and she is there apparently, if we are to believe
what we're being told that she committed suicide in the
middle of a million dollar plus farm mansion, and she
is Okay, just.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
A moment, Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to
put the farm mansion up on real estate site. Okay,
we'll get back to the as you say, million dollar
mansion in just a moment, asking you about the cod Now,
we don't have a cause of death that has not
been released. We don't know if there's been an autopsy
here in the US. Of course, there would be an
(04:47):
autopsy immediately. Whenever there's a question, was there an autopsy,
was there a tox ecology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac,
that her family said it's a suicide. Well, let me
differ with you, because her father, her own father, is
calling for an investigation, as is her sister in law
(05:08):
and others. They say that she specifically stated, if I die,
believe me, I did not commit suicide.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her
father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts
tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide,
not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide
in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm
making it publicly known that in no way, shape or
form in my suicidal if something happens to me in
(05:41):
the sake of my family, do not let this go
away and help me to protect them. Too many evil
people want to see me quieted.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So Dave mag I'm not quite sure where you're getting
your information, but you just heard the father and a
sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the
brother demanding an investigation joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
chief medical examiner out of Tarre County. That's fort Worth,
(06:09):
never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands
of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine at TCU. A star of a hit
series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves,
Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
(06:29):
win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP
standard operating procedure.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Anytime there's something that's concerning, you always have an autopsy.
So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident,
or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a
medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases of natural
deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied so they don't have
a medical history, died outside of a hospital, or died
(06:58):
within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will
also be autopsis. And then of course any child under
the age of six gets autopsy automatically.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in
the US, wouldn't there have been no question and autosy.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this.
With the history of what the history of with Epstein,
with the recent history of a possible car accident, and
then the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of
factors in play here that could be something that's going
on that makes it not a suicide and could be
(07:35):
a homicide.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Giffrey, and
this is one of my many many questions. Where's the
death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral?
Where is her body? Don't tell me she's already been
cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated this,
(08:01):
the crack detectives in near Gabby, Australia where there are
two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses. Who found her?
How did they find her? Did she hang herself? Did
she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're measurements taken.
(08:24):
And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood? And
of course that can never be argued to a jury statistics,
But what you roll the dice? What are the statistics
that four witnesses connected to a sex ring, a proven
sex ring of the very rich and powerful? Just as
(08:48):
the FEDS claim they're going to release all the documents,
including a list of massage therapists Epstein paid for her
or virginia'supray to have massage lessons? Is she on the list?
Was she about to be called as a witness? How
(09:11):
did she get tangled up with a perv? A billionaire,
but a perv nonetheless like Epstein?
Speaker 5 (09:20):
This is how Sometimes he would just jerk off in
front of them and rub his nipples.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It
kind of worked like a pyramid scheme. Gailan brought me in,
I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
Gilan tells me that.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
I have to do.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made
me sick. I just didn't expect it from Royalty.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
That is Virginia's Gifrey speaking about how she was lured
by Jeline Maxwell as a little girl, told she could
two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to be
a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually entailed
was something very, very different and illegal. You know, when
(10:12):
children are molested, they are never the same. They may
look the same to me and you, but on the
inside they never recover. They may learn to go about
their business, hold down a job, try to have a
marriage or a family. They're never the same. Now, what
you were hearing is from our friends at the Miami
(10:33):
Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who vowed
to never give up the fight, but she committed suicide
just on the eve of the federal release of those documents.
I want to go to a very special guest. You
may not know her name now, but you will. She,
(10:57):
like Virginia, was lured in by Epstein. She actually went
to Epstein Island. You know what, I will let her
tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining me now. She
is the star and the host of a podcast from
now on, and it's a real honor to speak with you,
(11:22):
miss Phillips. How did you meet if that's the right word,
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 7 (11:30):
So, I was on a photo shoot in early two
thousand at the island of Tortola in the British West Indies,
very close to his island, and we had a free day,
and another young blonde Polish model who looks like Virginia said,
you know, I have a friend who owns island. He's
(11:51):
been so wonderful to me. He got me my visa
to live in the United States, and so she was
just said, you know, let's go for the day, and
so I just said, okay, sure, I'll go with you.
And so I went over to the island and I
saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool with
the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman, and then later on
(12:14):
we all had dinner together, hung out for the day,
and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked
on my door and told myself and the other blonde
girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey actually she
said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just
(12:35):
was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
What massage?
Speaker 7 (12:38):
And so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes
you know, massages. You just you have to do it. So,
you know, I was trapped on the island. I didn't
know where to go. I just you know, followed the
girl into his room to do the massage with this
other young girl, and I ended up being abused on
that island.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Lisa, When you say you were abused, what.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Happened, Well, like Virginia was planning the massages, so the
massages turned into you know, touching and into assault.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, I was.
You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn?
Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lynn's Warriors,
committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host
(13:32):
of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube. Does it ever end? When
I hear Lisa and I look at her, she's so beautiful,
so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life
ever been the same? I mean mine hasn't been the
same since I was a victim of violent crime. It's
(13:54):
never been the same. What did that do to you?
Speaker 7 (13:58):
You can see I still get emotional, but I kept
it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died
in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out. I thought, Wow,
this is a courageous woman. Wow, she has like this
bravery to speak out about, you know what happened to
her with Jeffrey. But it was her story about Prince
Andrew was the reason why I spoke out. Because I
(14:20):
had a young friend, also a blonde similar to Virginia's look,
who was told by Jeffrey to go into a room
to have sex with the Prince, and that memory I
always remembered because when I met Jeffrey for the very
first time on the island, I remembered seeing that man there.
(14:41):
So my story connected me that way Andrew. Yes, yes,
Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money,
living in a mansion and I'm ting you this girls
battle now. Woman Virginia Geffray's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew.
She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed
(15:12):
to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what,
I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dad, So now
I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw,
Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around
bal Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse,
(15:35):
my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you
hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said.
Speaker 8 (15:45):
Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed
many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to
first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This
takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happens.
All commend her. Second of all, Virginia Giuffrey, I will
never believe killed herself. She bravely came out as a warrior.
(16:08):
And when she did that several years ago, all of
the other victims came forward and said, finally, finally we
have some support resolution me attention. We're going to get
somewhere three facts right away. Law enforcement said, no foul play,
nothing to see here. That was number one. Number two,
Virginia was in the process of renovating her house. Number three,
(16:32):
she was standing for all the other victims. She would
not do anything to harm herself. She wanted to be
that warrior for them. And I have to add a
fourth point. I don't believe she would leave her children.
Something happened here. We're not getting the facts. And will
it ever end, Nancy, I'm afraid to say, and I
don't like saying this. No, this Epstein's story is never
going to end. We're never going to hear the truth
(16:53):
and the facts about all of this. Too many complicit,
powerful people involved.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And another thing you heard Shaw say she was in
the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to see
her children. She would never leave them. But what about
this note what she said she was getting ready to
do battle. Listen Virginia.
Speaker 9 (17:16):
Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to release a
quote written by Virginia found in a journal at her
Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers,
sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are
drawn and we stand together to fight for the future
of victims. Is protesting the answer? I don't know, but
we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes
(17:39):
the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC
rally of Sexual assault Survivors. In a section of the note,
she writes, we are not going to go away.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started working as a
traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But not all is as it seems. Virginia, just a.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Teen, is being asked to complete tak that are far
outside of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into
sexual abuse tasks.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
It makes it sound like Epstein's asking her to file documents.
He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex,
raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and
she is not the only girl involved. According to a
(18:28):
wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his
hinch person basically his pimp, Jelanne Maxwell, another millionaire, had
created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure
(18:49):
where these girls, these young girls would go out and
recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts
with older, wealthy and prestigious let me say clients. I
would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And
now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just
(19:11):
after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the
battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp
of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you
know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod
no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to
(19:34):
a high school soccer game last night and the other
moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness
protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal
in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity.
She is not the first person connected to this investigation
(19:56):
to die of suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
Carol and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the
next four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial
for sex trafficking miners, Carol and Andreano found dead in
a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age
of thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children.
West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
(20:24):
Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have
died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Selby Patrick,
says Lee skuy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
It all started with Epstein. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Now we've heard about Carolin Andreano committing suicide by drug overdose.
(21:10):
We've heard about Lee sky Patrick committing suicide by overdose.
Now we hear about Virginia as You Fray committing suicide
by overdose. Well, what about the most high profile suicide
(21:31):
Epstein himself.
Speaker 10 (21:32):
August tenth, twenty nineteen, Jeffrey Epstein's found dead in his cell.
Authority say Epstein tied his bed sheet to his bed frame.
Lean forward, essentially hanging himself. Several bones in Epstein's neck
were fractured. The Inspector General's investigation concluded that prison guards
were negligent fudging the records of their half hourly rounds
while sleeping on duty. Epstein's cellmate was also inexplicably removed,
(21:55):
despite Epstein's lawyer's requests he not be left alone. Cameras
that should have monitored Epstein's every move were also not
recording during the incident.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
What happened to Jeffrey Epstein? He had told multiple people
that he feared he would be killed behind bars. Specifically,
I want to look at the wounds on Epstein's neck,
Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me, Chief medical Examiner Terren County,
look behind his neck, look at that when someone dies
(22:31):
in the way it's purported, Epstein died much like Robin
Williams died by tying something around the neck and then
attaching it to in this case a bunk bed, and
then leaning forward. Why would you have those marks on
the back of your neck. And also, doctor Kendall Crowns,
(22:54):
let me direct your attention to the photo on the left,
the horizontal photo in a typical suicide by hanging, you
see more of a U shaped indentation and mark. This
looks more like a ligature from behind by an assailant mark.
And it's not just me saying this, there are renowned
(23:18):
medical examiners who agree.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Usually, when you have someone who commits suicide by hanging
and use of the ligature will attach it to something,
and then when they hang themselves, the ligature furrow will
pull upwards and you get an inverted V on the neck.
I mean it's usually all the way around the neck.
You'll see this's inverted B. In a non suicide.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Right, inverted the you mean like a smile.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
An upside down smile, Yeah, would be another way to
describe it is another way. Yes, I would agree with that.
So when you have someone that's strangled with the ligature,
you don't get that inverted B or upside down smile
because they're standing behind you and pulling that ligature tight
around your neck, and that creates those kind of more
horizontal lines. The problem with Epstein is every description I've
(24:04):
heard of the wound and the pictures I've seen is
it doesn't look like it's going upwards. So it's very unusual.
He could could he have hanged himself by putting his
neck into the ligature that's just the U and then
leaning forward. It would cause that without seeing it on
the back of the neck, but you would still get
kind of an upward tilt to it. And then that's
(24:26):
also a soft ligature. You're not going to get all
the fracturing that you're seeing with Epstein as well of
the highway bone, which is hold on right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Hold on right there, you got to drink from the
fire hydrant. Epstein's death, according to some the medical examiner,
who was working for the state says there were three
fractures of the hyoid bone and the thyroid cartilage. Now,
according to renowned medical examiner Michael Bowden, he says the
(24:57):
injuries indicate homicide strangulation, not suicide. Now Boden was the
chief medical examiner in New York City and is now
considered as a celebrity forensic witness. Do you agree or
disagree with Michael Boden, Doctor Crowns.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
The problem I have is with the age of Epstein,
those bones become more bony and they become more brittle,
so they're more readily fractured. But you don't usually see
a lot of the fractures, and I'd have to do
a lot more looking at the case, looking at those
pictures to really give you a true opinion on that.
(25:38):
But it is very unusual what we're seeing in Epstein's
case for it to be a suicidal hangar.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Virginia Jeffrey and Prince Andrew are forever linked by Jeffrey's
allegations of sex abuse. Jeffers claims gil Maxwell set her
up for sex with the Prince on three occasions starting
at age seventeen, resulting in a lawsuit which the Prince settled,
all the while denying he had sex with the teen.
Likely the most damaging consequence for Prince Andrew is being
stripped of his royal and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates
(26:06):
more negativity as the allegations jump back into the headlines.
According to one royal watcher, Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him,
but merely closes the matter.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
In the midst of Andrew's alleged battle to hold on
to the mansion he's been living in rent free, suddenly
Virginia Geffrey commits suicide. After all she has survived in
the midst of another battle, seeking support for sex attack
victims across the world, she suddenly commits suicide. Listen to Virginia.
Speaker 11 (26:41):
I was recruited at a very young age from our
alago and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand.
And I've been fighting that very world to this day
and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced
until these people are brought to justice.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
From our friends at Fox News, I won't stop fighting.
I will continue to fight until all of these people
are brought to justice. I will never be silenced. Yet,
somewhere in near Gabby, population about two hundred people, she
commits suicide. According to some listen to more, I know
this guy. There's an opportunity.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Actually, if you want to become a real massage therapist,
we can get you trained. You can come for the
interview tonight and if he likes you, then you'll be
a real.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Messuse you said, take off your clothes.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
I had these little girl undies on, like little hearts
on them, I remember, and they were laughing at that
because they like that the younger you look, the better
it is. It it turns very sexual and it was
abuse straight away from both of them.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's Virginia speaking to our friends at Lifetime joining me
Renow psychoanalysts out of La, author of deal Breakers at
Dodtor Bethanymarshall dot com. You can see her now on
Peacock Doctor, Bethany. Did you hear what Virginia just said?
She was a little girl and on her girls undies
(28:06):
there were hearts and all of the adults started laughing
at that because she was such a quote little girl.
It's disgusting.
Speaker 12 (28:15):
It is disgusting, and they abused her in so many ways.
Not only did they predate upon her when she was
just working at mar A Lago, and one of the
reports says she was actually in foster care before that,
so she was as typical with their victims, in a
very vulnerable, precarious place in their life, longing for parental
(28:36):
love or love from adults. But then they laugh at
her underwear and it doesn't stop there, Nancy. A lot
of the victims have reported that once they tried to
get away from Epstein and Gilan Maxwell that Gillan and
Epstein came after them. So it's a lot like the
Catholic priests who predated on young kids. You know when
(28:59):
they has tried to break away, the priests would keep
stalking them. So this is sort of a life time
of abuse that Jeffreys has been exposed to.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Nancy.
Speaker 12 (29:12):
When I first heard of this death, I thought, she
is such a resilient woman. How cand a woman who's
so resilient take her own life. She also has three children.
She was talking about restoring her farmhouse. Shows she was
thinking about having a bright and optimistic future, which is
not what you see with people who are suicidal. Often
(29:32):
they feel very hopeless. They feel they actually make no
references to the future if they're planning on kill them
killing themselves. So this whole story just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace mag to your special guest,
Lisa Phillips A joining us Epstein's Survivor and you can
say her. She is the founder and the star of
a podcast from now on, and her story is amazing.
I have seen sex assault victims who can't even raise
(30:14):
their head and look up and meet your gaze. She
has continued to battle on and she was inspired when
Virginia spoke out. Lisa, I don't understand how Epstein's web
of sex trafficking with very rich very powerful clients. How
(30:38):
it has stayed silent for so long, and even now
DC is kicking rocks. They're not releasing the documents they
promised they would release. Why doesn't that bother you?
Speaker 7 (30:50):
Well, I think victims don't understand what's going on in
the moment. For many years, I didn't understand it until
I started talking to other survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and
realizing that our stories were exactly the same. So meeting
Virginia and talking to her in those years, I realized
that she was a young girl that I met on
the island. That day, I realized I saw her frolicking
(31:12):
in the pool with prince with the prince, and later
on I met the prince that evening, And then a
couple of years later, I had a young friend that
was also abused by the prince, was told by Jeffrey
to go into a room to have sex with this prince.
And that was the reason I started speaking out. And
then when I started talking to all these I being
a lot of girls, there was thirty forty fifty of
(31:34):
them that I was speaking to, and we were all
in this group and understanding that the same men that
we were being introduced to we were actually being trafficked to,
because oftentimes it ended in abuse or an attempted assault.
So we started putting it all together that this was
a sex trafficking ring, and I started getting angrier and
(31:58):
angrier about this, and that's why we started discussingly we
need to have a podcast about these serial predators. And
I focused obviously on Jeffrey Epstein and just knowing the
abuse that I for myself, and I also witnessed many
many girls that were eighteen to twenty four in New York.
Speaker 13 (32:17):
In Florida.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
You know, with Blaine, they were underage, but in New York,
most of the women were between eighteen and twenty four.
Hundreds that have come forward.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Speaking of Palm Beach joining me now is a veteran
trial lawyer. Andrea Lewis, partner at Circe Law Firm in
Palm Beach, Florida, President of Palm Beach County Bar Association
at circelaw dot com. She was there in that jurisdiction
(32:49):
when Epstein was prosecuted and given a slap on the
risk trust me Andrew had nothing to do with that
cover up, which it was and that ended up costing
Acosta his job way up in the federal government because
he went along with that deal where Epstein had been
(33:12):
molesting child after child, after girl after girl, and he
basically got a form of house arrest. He would have
to report to the jail, but then once he reported,
he could have his private limo driver pick him up
at the jail. He'd be gone all day and come
back to sleep there nothing. He got nothing. And so
(33:36):
when you hear that one out of four people connected
to this sex ring now having committed suicide, I mean, Asia,
that doesn't raise a bell of alarm to you.
Speaker 13 (33:47):
Well, Nancy, your one hundred percent right. I mean, the
facts here are really shocking.
Speaker 6 (33:53):
I mean, it is so unusual to have this many suicides,
this many tragedies all day are circling this one very
powerful man. And of course, as you noted time and
time again, the other very unusual thing about this story
is the other powerful, wealthy people that continue to roam free,
(34:17):
who were of course involved in some way or another
in this horrific, longstanding acts. On these horrific long standing
acts of child abuse and human trafficking.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Virginia Giffray had just begun to fight, But now we
hear she, like three other people connected to this very
powerful sex ring, have just committed suicide. Not according to
her lawyer.
Speaker 14 (34:47):
This case is not going away.
Speaker 10 (34:50):
For Junior Geffrey is not going to go away, and
I'm not going to go away.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Were now lawyer David Boys insisting Virginia's that fight is
not going to go away. As a matter of fact,
she was supporting Denim Day, a march a protest in
Washington across from the Capitol to support rape at Sex
Assault Victims' Rights IRV. Branton joining me now. Former Senior
(35:17):
Inspector US Marshall has literally gone around the world hunting
down bad guys. Author of an entire series on Amazon
about Jack solo latest solo shot, Curse of the Blue
Stone RV Prince Andrew, Listen, that's me.
Speaker 15 (35:37):
But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
but I don't. I have simply no recollection of a
photograph ever being taken.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That was the train Wreck interview Andrew gave. That was
from of our friends at BBC, and this is the
photo he's talking about. First, she said that couldn't be
him because he had never been to Julane Maxwell's second
story of her. Oh, there she is, second story of
her condo, I believe in Mayfair, a tony part of London,
(36:09):
and there he is with Virginia Jeffrey. Then he says
it couldn't be him because these are not the clothes
he would have worn in London, because these are his quote,
traveling clothes. What is he talking about, er Brandt his
traveling clothes? Really? Then he tried to claim that that's
(36:30):
not his left hand because it's too red. Wow, it
matches his right hand. I mean. Then he said he
couldn't possibly have met her at disco because she said
he was sweating and he doesn't sweat because of a
war wound. It just gets the worse. Train wreck, perfect
way to describe it. What do the laws work differently
(36:50):
in Great Britain than they do in the US because
he should be in jail.
Speaker 14 (36:53):
Men say it's the whole thing's disturbing. And when you
said train wreck, I would say that's the best way
to describe it. The stories don't make sense, The answers
to the questions don't make sense. For an investigator conducting
in an interview, I just couldn't imagine. I would throw
(37:17):
my hands up in the air, you know, and look
and look at the person that I'm interviewing and ask them,
what are you trying to say? I can't make any
sense of it. And just listening to you describe it,
I can't make any sense of it.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
And even after that sweetheart deal, and yes, Andrew Lewis,
I know you had nothing at all to do with it.
In fact, you opposed it in Palm Beach, Andrew was
still snugged up with Epstein in his Manhattan mansion and
they have been spotted on camera walking through Central Park.
I mean, Andrew lewis Is certainly is not probative. But
(37:56):
have you did your grandma say to you, birds of
a feather flocked together, lay down with the dog. You'll
wake up with the flea. What was Andrew doing with
Epstein except something the farious? And why isn't he in jail?
Speaker 13 (38:08):
Well, Nan, see, that's a great question, and it's a
question that's on everybody's mind because certainly you have somebody
who is rich and powerful, who is a known associate
to somebody who is clearly involved in the abuse of children,
widespread abusive children over many years, and it really leaves
(38:30):
you questioning how wouldn't he have known about this? Everybody
else seems to have known about this.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And you know, did you just hear Lisa Phillips, Lisa Phillips,
Let me see, Lisa, you're sure that was Andrew, Prince Andrew.
I guess his last name is York or Wales or whatever.
That was him paddling around in the pool what in
a thong with those teen girls? Mm hmm.
Speaker 7 (38:55):
It was definitely him, because Jeffrey introduced me to the
prince after I told him how I grew up in Oxford.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
And yet I just saw a shot of him galloping
around Windsor Castle on the grounds on like an eighty
thousand dollars horse. Why is he not in jail? Well,
recall that he agreed to a settlement of millions and
millions of dollars with Virginia's Giffrey. Now she won that battle,
(39:24):
she's continuing to fight. You want to tell me that
when those dogs are finally released by the fans, that's
not going to open up a big can of worms,
and her voice will be needed. And as a matter
of fact, think about what she's already overcome. Listen to
Virginia's Gefrey speaking to our friends at Lifetime.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
I remember sitting at the bottom of my shower and
crying my eyes out. I'd been on the streets and
I thought, you know, well, maybe this is the lesser
of two evils.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I had the promise of an education and.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Maybe this is just how the world works.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
From our f friends at Lifetime. And after she survived
all of that, now with a multimillion dollar settlement, she
decides to quit. Did Epstein survivor Virginia Geffray's commit suicide?
(40:19):
It would make her one of four people witnesses in
the Epstein case, one at a four that committed suicide.
What are the odds of that? To special guests Lisa Phillips,
Epstein survivor, star of podcast From Now On, Lisa, how
(40:43):
did it impact you when you learned Virginia is dead? Oh?
Speaker 7 (40:48):
That was a hard, hard day for me and it
has been since. I just had so many emotions and.
Speaker 13 (40:56):
I just feel so bad for the life that she lived.
Speaker 7 (41:00):
You know, the cycle of abuse is what we focus
on and from now on in the healing process that
she has been through fighting since she was a child,
a child of rape and a runaway in a traffic
victim and a domestic violence survivor, so it's been a
hard life for her and I really do hope that
she didn't commit suicide, but it's a highly suspicious death.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Suspicious, yes it is again Vegas odds. They don't lie.
I hope and pray for justice in this case and tonight.
A hero Virginia Geoffrey, who lived a life of torment
(41:44):
but managed to bring down one of the most powerful
and most wealthy men in the US, Jeffrey Epstein and
his hinch person Julanne Maxwell, now seeking a presidential pardon.
She never quit fighting, regardless of the obstacles in front
(42:06):
of her, and was an inspiration to so many other
sex attack victims around the world. Virginia Jeffrey, godspeed. Nancy
Grace signing off goodbye friend.
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein's sex assault victim, Virginia
Geffrey is dead, the fourth fourth suicide connected to a
sex ring of the rich and powerful. This as the
(00:23):
FEDS are set to release damning files, pointing the finger
at who darn and now Giffrey won't get to be
a witness? What a kwinki dink? I mean? What are
the Vegas odds that four people connected to the Epstein
(00:47):
sex ring child sex ring die of suicide? What are
the Vegas odds? I'm Nancy Grace, this is christ I
want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Virginia Jeffree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant
in mar A Lago when she is approached by socialite
Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate,
American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Hundred dollars rate permissage.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Virginia eagerly accepts per massage.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
My rear end. This was just a little girl, like
so many of the other little girls that were lured
in by Epstein, whom many insists did not commit suicide
behind bars. Lured in by Epstein and his hitch person
bills above from Hell Jelaine Maxwell. Now she at this
(01:46):
moment is trying to seek a presidential pardon. She was
convicted for her role in this. Wow, do you think
Virginia's testimony could have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon?
Think about it? Joining me an all star panel. But
first to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac,
(02:09):
are you telling me with a straight face? And I'm
not a conspiracy theorist at all, because I don't think
people can keep their pieholds shut long enough for a
conspiracy to actually work. But you're telling me, Dave Mac,
that Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death,
(02:30):
How did she die? Who was with her? Where was she?
Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me
that she was released while suicidal? And where did this
happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population
two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one
(02:50):
hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females,
median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that
in near Gabby Australia. They had a top notch forensics
team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that
she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses,
(03:11):
potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all
die of suicide, you know, Dave Mack and Russia, they
push you out of a window. So Dave Matt tell
me about Virginia's suicide.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Well, what we know about Virginia's suicide Nancy actually comes
from her family because there has been no official cause
of death that has been placed in the public for
any of us to see. It's being used as clickbait
all over. But we don't actually have a real cause
of death yet. What we have is the family saying
she took her own life. We don't know anything more
(03:46):
than that except for this Nancy. She was actually staying
at her face. She was separated from her husband and
staying at their farmhouse, a one point three million dollar
farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that is very lightly populated.
Her brothers were staying with her in this farmhouse. She's
(04:06):
four weeks removed from leaving the hospital, as you mentioned,
and she is there apparently, if we are to believe
what we're being told that she committed suicide in the
middle of a million dollar plus farm mansion, and she
is Okay, just.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
A moment, Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to
put the farm mansion up on real estate site. Okay,
we'll get back to the as you say, million dollar
mansion in just a moment, asking you about the cod Now,
we don't have a cause of death that has not
been released. We don't know if there's been an autopsy
here in the US. Of course, there would be an
(04:47):
autopsy immediately. Whenever there's a question, was there an autopsy,
was there a tox ecology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac,
that her family said it's a suicide. Well, let me
differ with you, because her father, her own father, is
calling for an investigation, as is her sister in law
(05:08):
and others. They say that she specifically stated, if I die,
believe me, I did not commit suicide.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her
father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts
tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide,
not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide
in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm
making it publicly known that in no way, shape or
form in my suicidal if something happens to me in
(05:41):
the sake of my family, do not let this go
away and help me to protect them. Too many evil
people want to see me quieted.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So Dave mag I'm not quite sure where you're getting
your information, but you just heard the father and a
sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the
brother demanding an investigation joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
chief medical examiner out of Tarre County. That's fort Worth,
(06:09):
never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands
of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine at TCU. A star of a hit
series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves,
Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
(06:29):
win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP
standard operating procedure.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Anytime there's something that's concerning, you always have an autopsy.
So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident,
or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a
medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases of natural
deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied so they don't have
a medical history, died outside of a hospital, or died
(06:58):
within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will
also be autopsis. And then of course any child under
the age of six gets autopsy automatically.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in
the US, wouldn't there have been no question and autosy.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this.
With the history of what the history of with Epstein,
with the recent history of a possible car accident, and
then the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of
factors in play here that could be something that's going
on that makes it not a suicide and could be
(07:35):
a homicide.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Giffrey, and
this is one of my many many questions. Where's the
death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral?
Where is her body? Don't tell me she's already been
cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated this,
(08:01):
the crack detectives in near Gabby, Australia where there are
two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses. Who found her?
How did they find her? Did she hang herself? Did
she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're measurements taken.
(08:24):
And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood? And
of course that can never be argued to a jury statistics,
But what you roll the dice? What are the statistics
that four witnesses connected to a sex ring, a proven
sex ring of the very rich and powerful? Just as
(08:48):
the FEDS claim they're going to release all the documents,
including a list of massage therapists Epstein paid for her
or virginia'supray to have massage lessons? Is she on the list?
Was she about to be called as a witness? How
(09:11):
did she get tangled up with a perv? A billionaire,
but a perv nonetheless like Epstein?
Speaker 5 (09:20):
This is how Sometimes he would just jerk off in
front of them and rub his nipples.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
Speaker 5 (09:26):
Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It
kind of worked like a pyramid scheme. Gailan brought me in,
I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
Gilan tells me that.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
I have to do.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made
me sick. I just didn't expect it from Royalty.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
That is Virginia's Gifrey speaking about how she was lured
by Jeline Maxwell as a little girl, told she could
two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to be
a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually entailed
was something very, very different and illegal. You know, when
(10:12):
children are molested, they are never the same. They may
look the same to me and you, but on the
inside they never recover. They may learn to go about
their business, hold down a job, try to have a
marriage or a family. They're never the same. Now, what
you were hearing is from our friends at the Miami
(10:33):
Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who vowed
to never give up the fight, but she committed suicide
just on the eve of the federal release of those documents.
I want to go to a very special guest. You
may not know her name now, but you will. She,
(10:57):
like Virginia, was lured in by Epstein. She actually went
to Epstein Island. You know what, I will let her
tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining me now. She
is the star and the host of a podcast from
now on, and it's a real honor to speak with you,
(11:22):
miss Phillips. How did you meet if that's the right word,
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 7 (11:30):
So, I was on a photo shoot in early two
thousand at the island of Tortola in the British West Indies,
very close to his island, and we had a free day,
and another young blonde Polish model who looks like Virginia said,
you know, I have a friend who owns island. He's
(11:51):
been so wonderful to me. He got me my visa
to live in the United States, and so she was
just said, you know, let's go for the day, and
so I just said, okay, sure, I'll go with you.
And so I went over to the island and I
saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool with
the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman, and then later on
(12:14):
we all had dinner together, hung out for the day,
and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked
on my door and told myself and the other blonde
girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey actually she
said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just
(12:35):
was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
What massage?
Speaker 7 (12:38):
And so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes
you know, massages. You just you have to do it. So,
you know, I was trapped on the island. I didn't
know where to go. I just you know, followed the
girl into his room to do the massage with this
other young girl, and I ended up being abused on
that island.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Lisa, When you say you were abused, what.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
Happened, Well, like Virginia was planning the massages, so the
massages turned into you know, touching and into assault.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, I was.
You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn?
Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lynn's Warriors,
committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host
(13:32):
of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube. Does it ever end? When
I hear Lisa and I look at her, she's so beautiful,
so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life
ever been the same? I mean mine hasn't been the
same since I was a victim of violent crime. It's
(13:54):
never been the same. What did that do to you?
Speaker 7 (13:58):
You can see I still get emotional, but I kept
it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died
in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out. I thought, Wow,
this is a courageous woman. Wow, she has like this
bravery to speak out about, you know what happened to
her with Jeffrey. But it was her story about Prince
Andrew was the reason why I spoke out. Because I
(14:20):
had a young friend, also a blonde similar to Virginia's look,
who was told by Jeffrey to go into a room
to have sex with the Prince, and that memory I
always remembered because when I met Jeffrey for the very
first time on the island, I remembered seeing that man there.
(14:41):
So my story connected me that way Andrew. Yes, yes,
Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money,
living in a mansion and I'm ting you this girls
battle now. Woman Virginia Geffray's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew.
She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed
(15:12):
to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what,
I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dad, So now
I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw,
Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around
bal Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse,
(15:35):
my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you
hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said.
Speaker 8 (15:45):
Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed
many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to
first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This
takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happens.
All commend her. Second of all, Virginia Giuffrey, I will
never believe killed herself. She bravely came out as a warrior.
(16:08):
And when she did that several years ago, all of
the other victims came forward and said, finally, finally we
have some support resolution me attention. We're going to get
somewhere three facts right away. Law enforcement said, no foul play,
nothing to see here. That was number one. Number two,
Virginia was in the process of renovating her house. Number three,
(16:32):
she was standing for all the other victims. She would
not do anything to harm herself. She wanted to be
that warrior for them. And I have to add a
fourth point. I don't believe she would leave her children.
Something happened here. We're not getting the facts. And will
it ever end, Nancy, I'm afraid to say, and I
don't like saying this. No, this Epstein's story is never
going to end. We're never going to hear the truth
(16:53):
and the facts about all of this. Too many complicit,
powerful people involved.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
And another thing you heard Shaw say she was in
the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to see
her children. She would never leave them. But what about
this note what she said she was getting ready to
do battle. Listen Virginia.
Speaker 9 (17:16):
Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to release a
quote written by Virginia found in a journal at her
Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers,
sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are
drawn and we stand together to fight for the future
of victims. Is protesting the answer? I don't know, but
we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes
(17:39):
the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC
rally of Sexual assault Survivors. In a section of the note,
she writes, we are not going to go away.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started working as a
traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But not all is as it seems. Virginia, just a.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Teen, is being asked to complete tak that are far
outside of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into
sexual abuse tasks.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
It makes it sound like Epstein's asking her to file documents.
He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex,
raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and
she is not the only girl involved. According to a
(18:28):
wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his
hinch person basically his pimp, Jelanne Maxwell, another millionaire, had
created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure
(18:49):
where these girls, these young girls would go out and
recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts
with older, wealthy and prestigious let me say clients. I
would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And
now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just
(19:11):
after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the
battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp
of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you
know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod
no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to
(19:34):
a high school soccer game last night and the other
moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness
protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal
in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity.
She is not the first person connected to this investigation
(19:56):
to die of suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
Carol and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the
next four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial
for sex trafficking miners, Carol and Andreano found dead in
a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age
of thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children.
West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
(20:24):
Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have
died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Selby Patrick,
says Lee skuy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
It all started with Epstein. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Now we've heard about Carolin Andreano committing suicide by drug overdose.
(21:10):
We've heard about Lee sky Patrick committing suicide by overdose.
Now we hear about Virginia as You Fray committing suicide
by overdose. Well, what about the most high profile suicide
(21:31):
Epstein himself.
Speaker 10 (21:32):
August tenth, twenty nineteen, Jeffrey Epstein's found dead in his cell.
Authority say Epstein tied his bed sheet to his bed frame.
Lean forward, essentially hanging himself. Several bones in Epstein's neck
were fractured. The Inspector General's investigation concluded that prison guards
were negligent fudging the records of their half hourly rounds
while sleeping on duty. Epstein's cellmate was also inexplicably removed,
(21:55):
despite Epstein's lawyer's requests he not be left alone. Cameras
that should have monitored Epstein's every move were also not
recording during the incident.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
What happened to Jeffrey Epstein? He had told multiple people
that he feared he would be killed behind bars. Specifically,
I want to look at the wounds on Epstein's neck,
Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me, Chief medical Examiner Terren County,
look behind his neck, look at that when someone dies
(22:31):
in the way it's purported, Epstein died much like Robin
Williams died by tying something around the neck and then
attaching it to in this case a bunk bed, and
then leaning forward. Why would you have those marks on
the back of your neck. And also, doctor Kendall Crowns,
(22:54):
let me direct your attention to the photo on the left,
the horizontal photo in a typical suicide by hanging, you
see more of a U shaped indentation and mark. This
looks more like a ligature from behind by an assailant mark.
And it's not just me saying this, there are renowned
(23:18):
medical examiners who agree.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Usually, when you have someone who commits suicide by hanging
and use of the ligature will attach it to something,
and then when they hang themselves, the ligature furrow will
pull upwards and you get an inverted V on the neck.
I mean it's usually all the way around the neck.
You'll see this's inverted B. In a non suicide.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Right, inverted the you mean like a smile.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
An upside down smile, Yeah, would be another way to
describe it is another way. Yes, I would agree with that.
So when you have someone that's strangled with the ligature,
you don't get that inverted B or upside down smile
because they're standing behind you and pulling that ligature tight
around your neck, and that creates those kind of more
horizontal lines. The problem with Epstein is every description I've
(24:04):
heard of the wound and the pictures I've seen is
it doesn't look like it's going upwards. So it's very unusual.
He could could he have hanged himself by putting his
neck into the ligature that's just the U and then
leaning forward. It would cause that without seeing it on
the back of the neck, but you would still get
kind of an upward tilt to it. And then that's
(24:26):
also a soft ligature. You're not going to get all
the fracturing that you're seeing with Epstein as well of
the highway bone, which is hold on right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Hold on right there, you got to drink from the
fire hydrant. Epstein's death, according to some the medical examiner,
who was working for the state says there were three
fractures of the hyoid bone and the thyroid cartilage. Now,
according to renowned medical examiner Michael Bowden, he says the
(24:57):
injuries indicate homicide strangulation, not suicide. Now Boden was the
chief medical examiner in New York City and is now
considered as a celebrity forensic witness. Do you agree or
disagree with Michael Boden, Doctor Crowns.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
The problem I have is with the age of Epstein,
those bones become more bony and they become more brittle,
so they're more readily fractured. But you don't usually see
a lot of the fractures, and I'd have to do
a lot more looking at the case, looking at those
pictures to really give you a true opinion on that.
(25:38):
But it is very unusual what we're seeing in Epstein's
case for it to be a suicidal hangar.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Virginia Jeffrey and Prince Andrew are forever linked by Jeffrey's
allegations of sex abuse. Jeffers claims gil Maxwell set her
up for sex with the Prince on three occasions starting
at age seventeen, resulting in a lawsuit which the Prince settled,
all the while denying he had sex with the teen.
Likely the most damaging consequence for Prince Andrew is being
stripped of his royal and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates
(26:06):
more negativity as the allegations jump back into the headlines.
According to one royal watcher, Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him,
but merely closes the matter.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
In the midst of Andrew's alleged battle to hold on
to the mansion he's been living in rent free, suddenly
Virginia Geffrey commits suicide. After all she has survived in
the midst of another battle, seeking support for sex attack
victims across the world, she suddenly commits suicide. Listen to Virginia.
Speaker 11 (26:41):
I was recruited at a very young age from our
alago and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand.
And I've been fighting that very world to this day
and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced
until these people are brought to justice.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
From our friends at Fox News, I won't stop fighting.
I will continue to fight until all of these people
are brought to justice. I will never be silenced. Yet,
somewhere in near Gabby, population about two hundred people, she
commits suicide. According to some listen to more, I know
this guy. There's an opportunity.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Actually, if you want to become a real massage therapist,
we can get you trained. You can come for the
interview tonight and if he likes you, then you'll be
a real.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Messuse you said, take off your clothes.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
I had these little girl undies on, like little hearts
on them, I remember, and they were laughing at that
because they like that the younger you look, the better
it is. It it turns very sexual and it was
abuse straight away from both of them.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's Virginia speaking to our friends at Lifetime joining me
Renow psychoanalysts out of La, author of deal Breakers at
Dodtor Bethanymarshall dot com. You can see her now on
Peacock Doctor, Bethany. Did you hear what Virginia just said?
She was a little girl and on her girls undies
(28:06):
there were hearts and all of the adults started laughing
at that because she was such a quote little girl.
It's disgusting.
Speaker 12 (28:15):
It is disgusting, and they abused her in so many ways.
Not only did they predate upon her when she was
just working at mar A Lago, and one of the
reports says she was actually in foster care before that,
so she was as typical with their victims, in a
very vulnerable, precarious place in their life, longing for parental
(28:36):
love or love from adults. But then they laugh at
her underwear and it doesn't stop there, Nancy. A lot
of the victims have reported that once they tried to
get away from Epstein and Gilan Maxwell that Gillan and
Epstein came after them. So it's a lot like the
Catholic priests who predated on young kids. You know when
(28:59):
they has tried to break away, the priests would keep
stalking them. So this is sort of a life time
of abuse that Jeffreys has been exposed to.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Nancy.
Speaker 12 (29:12):
When I first heard of this death, I thought, she
is such a resilient woman. How cand a woman who's
so resilient take her own life. She also has three children.
She was talking about restoring her farmhouse. Shows she was
thinking about having a bright and optimistic future, which is
not what you see with people who are suicidal. Often
(29:32):
they feel very hopeless. They feel they actually make no
references to the future if they're planning on kill them
killing themselves. So this whole story just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace mag to your special guest,
Lisa Phillips A joining us Epstein's Survivor and you can
say her. She is the founder and the star of
a podcast from now on, and her story is amazing.
I have seen sex assault victims who can't even raise
(30:14):
their head and look up and meet your gaze. She
has continued to battle on and she was inspired when
Virginia spoke out. Lisa, I don't understand how Epstein's web
of sex trafficking with very rich very powerful clients. How
(30:38):
it has stayed silent for so long, and even now
DC is kicking rocks. They're not releasing the documents they
promised they would release. Why doesn't that bother you?
Speaker 7 (30:50):
Well, I think victims don't understand what's going on in
the moment. For many years, I didn't understand it until
I started talking to other survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and
realizing that our stories were exactly the same. So meeting
Virginia and talking to her in those years, I realized
that she was a young girl that I met on
the island. That day, I realized I saw her frolicking
(31:12):
in the pool with prince with the prince, and later
on I met the prince that evening, And then a
couple of years later, I had a young friend that
was also abused by the prince, was told by Jeffrey
to go into a room to have sex with this prince.
And that was the reason I started speaking out. And
then when I started talking to all these I being
a lot of girls, there was thirty forty fifty of
(31:34):
them that I was speaking to, and we were all
in this group and understanding that the same men that
we were being introduced to we were actually being trafficked to,
because oftentimes it ended in abuse or an attempted assault.
So we started putting it all together that this was
a sex trafficking ring, and I started getting angrier and
(31:58):
angrier about this, and that's why we started discussingly we
need to have a podcast about these serial predators. And
I focused obviously on Jeffrey Epstein and just knowing the
abuse that I for myself, and I also witnessed many
many girls that were eighteen to twenty four in New York.
Speaker 13 (32:17):
In Florida.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
You know, with Blaine, they were underage, but in New York,
most of the women were between eighteen and twenty four.
Hundreds that have come forward.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Speaking of Palm Beach joining me now is a veteran
trial lawyer. Andrea Lewis, partner at Circe Law Firm in
Palm Beach, Florida, President of Palm Beach County Bar Association
at circelaw dot com. She was there in that jurisdiction
(32:49):
when Epstein was prosecuted and given a slap on the
risk trust me Andrew had nothing to do with that
cover up, which it was and that ended up costing
Acosta his job way up in the federal government because
he went along with that deal where Epstein had been
(33:12):
molesting child after child, after girl after girl, and he
basically got a form of house arrest. He would have
to report to the jail, but then once he reported,
he could have his private limo driver pick him up
at the jail. He'd be gone all day and come
back to sleep there nothing. He got nothing. And so
(33:36):
when you hear that one out of four people connected
to this sex ring now having committed suicide, I mean, Asia,
that doesn't raise a bell of alarm to you.
Speaker 13 (33:47):
Well, Nancy, your one hundred percent right. I mean, the
facts here are really shocking.
Speaker 6 (33:53):
I mean, it is so unusual to have this many suicides,
this many tragedies all day are circling this one very
powerful man. And of course, as you noted time and
time again, the other very unusual thing about this story
is the other powerful, wealthy people that continue to roam free,
(34:17):
who were of course involved in some way or another
in this horrific, longstanding acts. On these horrific long standing
acts of child abuse and human trafficking.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Virginia Giffray had just begun to fight, But now we
hear she, like three other people connected to this very
powerful sex ring, have just committed suicide. Not according to
her lawyer.
Speaker 14 (34:47):
This case is not going away.
Speaker 10 (34:50):
For Junior Geffrey is not going to go away, and
I'm not going to go away.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Were now lawyer David Boys insisting Virginia's that fight is
not going to go away. As a matter of fact,
she was supporting Denim Day, a march a protest in
Washington across from the Capitol to support rape at Sex
Assault Victims' Rights IRV. Branton joining me now. Former Senior
(35:17):
Inspector US Marshall has literally gone around the world hunting
down bad guys. Author of an entire series on Amazon
about Jack solo latest solo shot, Curse of the Blue
Stone RV Prince Andrew, Listen, that's me.
Speaker 15 (35:37):
But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
but I don't. I have simply no recollection of a
photograph ever being taken.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That was the train Wreck interview Andrew gave. That was
from of our friends at BBC, and this is the
photo he's talking about. First, she said that couldn't be
him because he had never been to Julane Maxwell's second
story of her. Oh, there she is, second story of
her condo, I believe in Mayfair, a tony part of London,
(36:09):
and there he is with Virginia Jeffrey. Then he says
it couldn't be him because these are not the clothes
he would have worn in London, because these are his quote,
traveling clothes. What is he talking about, er Brandt his
traveling clothes? Really? Then he tried to claim that that's
(36:30):
not his left hand because it's too red. Wow, it
matches his right hand. I mean. Then he said he
couldn't possibly have met her at disco because she said
he was sweating and he doesn't sweat because of a
war wound. It just gets the worse. Train wreck, perfect
way to describe it. What do the laws work differently
(36:50):
in Great Britain than they do in the US because
he should be in jail.
Speaker 14 (36:53):
Men say it's the whole thing's disturbing. And when you
said train wreck, I would say that's the best way
to describe it. The stories don't make sense, The answers
to the questions don't make sense. For an investigator conducting
in an interview, I just couldn't imagine. I would throw
(37:17):
my hands up in the air, you know, and look
and look at the person that I'm interviewing and ask them,
what are you trying to say? I can't make any
sense of it. And just listening to you describe it,
I can't make any sense of it.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
And even after that sweetheart deal, and yes, Andrew Lewis,
I know you had nothing at all to do with it.
In fact, you opposed it in Palm Beach, Andrew was
still snugged up with Epstein in his Manhattan mansion and
they have been spotted on camera walking through Central Park.
I mean, Andrew lewis Is certainly is not probative. But
(37:56):
have you did your grandma say to you, birds of
a feather flocked together, lay down with the dog. You'll
wake up with the flea. What was Andrew doing with
Epstein except something the farious? And why isn't he in jail?
Speaker 13 (38:08):
Well, Nan, see, that's a great question, and it's a
question that's on everybody's mind because certainly you have somebody
who is rich and powerful, who is a known associate
to somebody who is clearly involved in the abuse of children,
widespread abusive children over many years, and it really leaves
(38:30):
you questioning how wouldn't he have known about this? Everybody
else seems to have known about this.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And you know, did you just hear Lisa Phillips, Lisa Phillips,
Let me see, Lisa, you're sure that was Andrew, Prince Andrew.
I guess his last name is York or Wales or whatever.
That was him paddling around in the pool what in
a thong with those teen girls? Mm hmm.
Speaker 7 (38:55):
It was definitely him, because Jeffrey introduced me to the
prince after I told him how I grew up in Oxford.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
And yet I just saw a shot of him galloping
around Windsor Castle on the grounds on like an eighty
thousand dollars horse. Why is he not in jail? Well,
recall that he agreed to a settlement of millions and
millions of dollars with Virginia's Giffrey. Now she won that battle,
(39:24):
she's continuing to fight. You want to tell me that
when those dogs are finally released by the fans, that's
not going to open up a big can of worms,
and her voice will be needed. And as a matter
of fact, think about what she's already overcome. Listen to
Virginia's Gefrey speaking to our friends at Lifetime.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
I remember sitting at the bottom of my shower and
crying my eyes out. I'd been on the streets and
I thought, you know, well, maybe this is the lesser
of two evils.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I had the promise of an education and.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Maybe this is just how the world works.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
From our f friends at Lifetime. And after she survived
all of that, now with a multimillion dollar settlement, she
decides to quit. Did Epstein survivor Virginia Geffray's commit suicide?
(40:19):
It would make her one of four people witnesses in
the Epstein case, one at a four that committed suicide.
What are the odds of that? To special guests Lisa Phillips,
Epstein survivor, star of podcast From Now On, Lisa, how
(40:43):
did it impact you when you learned Virginia is dead? Oh?
Speaker 7 (40:48):
That was a hard, hard day for me and it
has been since. I just had so many emotions and.
Speaker 13 (40:56):
I just feel so bad for the life that she lived.
Speaker 7 (41:00):
You know, the cycle of abuse is what we focus
on and from now on in the healing process that
she has been through fighting since she was a child,
a child of rape and a runaway in a traffic
victim and a domestic violence survivor, so it's been a
hard life for her and I really do hope that
she didn't commit suicide, but it's a highly suspicious death.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Suspicious, yes it is again Vegas odds. They don't lie.
I hope and pray for justice in this case and tonight.
A hero Virginia Geoffrey, who lived a life of torment
(41:44):
but managed to bring down one of the most powerful
and most wealthy men in the US, Jeffrey Epstein and
his hinch person Julanne Maxwell, now seeking a presidential pardon.
She never quit fighting, regardless of the obstacles in front
(42:06):
of her, and was an inspiration to so many other
sex attack victims around the world. Virginia Jeffrey, godspeed. Nancy
Grace signing off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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