January 1, 2026 • 57 mins
Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein, and various survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, who have been advocating for transparency and full release of all government files, speak out.
The initial release faced criticism from victims' attorneys for being heavily redacted, incomplete, and largely containing previously public information. And some survivors expressed the roadblocks they face trying to find information related to their own case.
As more documents and photos are released relating to the investigation into sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, additional names of high-profile individuals emerge.
Mark Epstein has more questions and is concerned that his brother Jeffrey's death was not by suicide.
Files being released remain an ongoing process, with lawmakers and citizens continuing to push for full transparency and accountability.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Birds of a feather flock
together Epstein and Juliane Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
There were literally hundreds of victims.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
It makes me sick, gag.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hundreds of young girls who had been traffic by Epstein
and Maxwell.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Her name is like dirt in my mouth. There is
no missed lies. I never heard that lies.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I never imagined it lies.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
There they are on their private plane. You know what
bite me?
Speaker 5 (00:34):
This Epstein story is never going to end.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
People connected to this case or dropping dead light flies.
Speaker 6 (00:40):
He was a master manipulator.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
He's having dinner with Satan tonight.
Speaker 7 (00:58):
What you're going to see is a lot of flight logs,
a lot of names, a lot of information.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
But it's pretty sick what.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
That man did.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
A source had told me where the documents were being kept,
Southern District of New York.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Shock.
Speaker 7 (01:15):
So we got them all by, hopefully all of them.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Friday at eight am.
Speaker 7 (01:19):
Thousands of pages of documents. I have the FBI going
through them. Director Patel is going to get us a
detailed report as to why the FBI withheld all of
those documents.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
That is from our friends at Fox News.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Joining us now is a very special guest Spencer couven
chief legal officer, Gold Law, who has represented nine Epstein victims.
Nine nine now prosecuted a lot of cases, and when
I would have three or four victims, that would be
(01:54):
like an avalanche. You a single lawyer have represented nine,
which tells me that there are many many more out there,
probably that we don't even know about.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I've been representing victims going back to the original prosecution
of this case in Palm Beach. I represented victim number one,
that was a fourteen year old girl that I helped
walk through the criminal justice and then subsequently the civil
justice system, which started the landfall of future victims of
Jeffrey Epstein. I can tell you that in my contacts
(02:30):
with the FBI during those investigations, there were literally hundreds
of victims, hundreds of young girls who had been trafficked
by Epstein and Maxwell. They were out there, and then
there were more than hundreds that actually submitted claims when
the funds were seized over in the Virgin Islands after
his arrest. So the victims are numerous, the stories are voluminous.
(02:54):
They involve high profile individuals in the business community, high
profile politician, royalty, you name it. Jeffrey Epstein had the
goods on all of them, and there were a lot
of people. I have no doubt that we're afraid of
what he had to say.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Dylan Howard is with US investigative journalists and author of
Epstein Dead.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Men Tell No Tales.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm very curious as to why the documents are not
being disclosed now. Dylan Howard, you suggest a nefarious relationship
between Trump and Epstein. Many celebrities take photos that later
they wish they hadn't taken. Photos alone do not indicate
(03:37):
wrongdoing on behalf of Trump. But I will tell you
what is a smoking.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Gun to me.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
We were told the documents would be released. Now we're
being told there's nothing to see. If there's nothing to see,
why not release them.
Speaker 8 (03:58):
No, Natal, I'm not suggested see an afarious link between
Trump and Epstein. What I'm saying is that there has
been a search for an afarious link between Trump and Epstein.
But I think that obscures somewhat the real crux of
the matter here, and that is that there is significant
intelligence in the hands of the Department of Justice and
the FBI that has not been released to the American people.
(04:22):
And we know that through various motions that have been
put forward in various civil cases in which the SDNY
the Southern District of New York, has argued that the
release of those Epstein files could quote reasonably be expected
to interfere with a potential appeal of Epstein's.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I know, I've never seen prosecutors so worried about the
interests of a convicted felon. I eat Julane Maxwell, and
this goes back to before Bondy. The promise that these
die huments would be released and that any co conspirator
would be prosecutor goes all the way back to Attorney
(05:06):
General William Barr.
Speaker 9 (05:08):
This case will continue on against anyone who was complicit
with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
That's my friends at CBS.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Let's just remind everyone what this case is about. Listen
to Virginia Jeffrey, one of the five individuals who allegedly
committed suicide connected to the Epstein case.
Speaker 10 (05:34):
You said, take off your clothes. I had these little
girl undies on, like little hearts on them, I remember,
and they were laughing at that because they liked that
the younger you look, the better it is. It turned
into it turns very sexual, and it was abused straight
away from both of them. I had been a runaway
(05:54):
and I had been abused before.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So to have this, you know, ability to.
Speaker 10 (05:59):
Get educ and do something with my life, I thought
I was turning around.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's one my friends at Miami Harold and ITV News
and Lifetime, Dylan Howard. That's what this case is all about,
the trafficking and exploitation of what we now believe to
be thousands of little girls. Now, why on God's green
earth would we not want to release files about the
(06:24):
desecration and the victimization of little girls.
Speaker 8 (06:28):
At the very heart of this lies a very deep
and disturbing question. If Jeffrey Epstein was operating a child
sex ring, was he doing it for his own sexual
proclivities or was he doing it for a perhaps far
more nefarious cause. And I think the answer lies there.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
We have proof that Jeffrey Epstein's child sex trafficking ring
spans much further.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Than just the US.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm talking about proof that girls as young as twelve
years old were flown from various countries to Epstein's island,
where they were handed over like a pizza delivery to
Jeffrey Epstein and his wealthy clients joining us tonight is
(07:20):
a very special guest, Barry Levine. Barry is the author
of an incredible book called Listen to This, The Spider
inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilaine Maxwell.
The fact that Epstein wasn't just finding teen girls in
(07:42):
Florida that were usually underprivileged, single parent home, no money,
no hopes. He wasn't just praying on them. This sex
child sex trafficking ring is a lot bigger than a
few rolls down upon beach. We are talking about Europe.
(08:04):
We are talking about Eastern Europe. We are talking about children,
girls as young as twelve years old, being put on
planes and flown to the US Virgin Islands, delivered like
a pizza to Jeffrey Epstein and then his French counterpart,
(08:25):
Jean le Brunelle, is dead behind bars.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Wow, what a coincidink. You have uncovered evidence that this
is a world wide operation.
Speaker 11 (08:39):
Explain that's absolutely correct, Nancy, And I'm hoping that if
we ever get into these Epstein files, three hundred gigabytes
of material, that hundreds of thousands of pages, that we
will help uncover the enable who assisted Jeffrey Epstein. Now, Nansen,
(09:04):
you have to remember that after Jeffrey Epstein received that
slap on the risk conviction down in Florida in two
thousand and eight, it's part of that non prosecution agreement
in which he only had a plead guilty to state
charges for solicitation of a miner and was given a
(09:24):
sweetheart deal of fourteen months behind bars, of which most
of the time he was nine.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I just want to tell you something. You're actually making
my stomach hurt. It's actually hurting right now. If I'd
have gotten a hold of this guy, he would have
been under the jail, under the jail, and he actually
had his limo pick him up, his limo at the
Palmies jail and drive him wherever he wanted to go.
(09:53):
That's not punishment, absolutely right, Nancy.
Speaker 11 (09:58):
It was sickening in terms of of that slap on
the wrist in Florida. At the time, the FBI wanted
to put him away for seventy five years, and then
he got that sweetheart deal. And when he was out
on work release, he had a ankle bracelet and he
was having sex. As I reported in my book with
Victims while he had the ankle monitor on his leg.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Little girls, and I believe you can prove this. Little
girls as young as twelve being flown from Russia, Turkey
and beyond two the Virgin Islands, delivered directly to Jeffrey Epstein.
There are witnesses that see the little girls getting off
(10:46):
the plane and going to his mansion, not just one,
not just to a steady string. There are thousands of victims,
which leads me to who and the hell are the
other men that can are wealthy enough to pay to
fly to us Virgin Islands and have with a twelve
(11:09):
year old girl. By god, I am not letting this go, Levain,
and you shouldn't.
Speaker 11 (11:15):
And the American public and the victims, over a thousand
victims want answers. And that's why we need to open
up these FBI files. And we know that it was horrific.
He made the girls call him the godfather. He had
a gun strap to one of his bedposts. One victim
(11:36):
was so terrified that she actually attempted to swim off
the island, only to turn back when she realized the
water currents and so forth. This was a island of
hearts that Jeffrey Epstein brought these girls to and only
now are we beginning to learn some of the circumstances.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
In the last hour to start reversal from the White House,
Trump now claiming he wants the Epstein files release after
much furor over the past months. Joining us tonight is
a very special guest who has once again landed at
the forefront of the national news because of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
May Epstein rot in Hell.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I'd like to start, of course, the news of the
night is President Trump's stark reversal on releasing the Epstein files,
and they are volume us. The twenty thousand documents we've
gotten so far as only a very small.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Percentage of what there is.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Just imagine it goes bay years and years and years
and Allen, I'm very curious as to why this has
been such an obstacle in DC, why these files have
been like hide the ball.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
From the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
We've gotten conflicting statements. We've been told by BONDI they're
sitting right here on my desk, I've got the client list.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
But then climbing, Oh, there is no such thing. Do
they think we're idiots?
Speaker 12 (13:11):
Alan, Well, there is a list, a list of FBI
names that the FBI got in interviewing the victims.
Speaker 13 (13:21):
And there is such a list.
Speaker 14 (13:22):
I've seen it, and the names have been redacted, some
of them has been made public. Being on the list
doesn't necessarily mean you're guilty. It means somebody has accused you.
But there is such a list. There's no Jeffrey Epstein
client list.
Speaker 13 (13:34):
He didn't have a.
Speaker 12 (13:35):
Little book in which he said, this woman is going
to go to this guy, this woman is going to
go here or there. There's no such list like that.
But the FBI does have names that they're suppressing. And
the judges, judges, this is the important point. Judges have
been suppressing information. They have sealed depositions.
Speaker 13 (13:52):
And I think that your program, other programs have the
right to go to court and say, look, please, the
public has the right to see that, let's unseal these depositions.
But right now, nobody benefits from suppression. And that's why
I'm so upset at courts, courts, federal judges keeping names out.
They shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
What do you think is going to happen allan, Now,
will we ever get the truth?
Speaker 15 (14:21):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
I think we're going to get the truth.
Speaker 13 (14:23):
I think there's so much public pressure and there's so
much pressure from Congress. I think in the end everything
will come out.
Speaker 12 (14:29):
It will exculpate innocent people like me, It will incumbate
guilty people, and I don't know who they are, but
whoever they are should be found guilty.
Speaker 13 (14:38):
And I think in the end the truth will prevail.
Speaker 16 (14:44):
The light has been.
Speaker 13 (14:45):
Treated unfairly for over five years now.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
If you looked up the scapegoat in the dictionary, her
face would be next to the definition, next to the
dictionary definition of it.
Speaker 11 (14:55):
She's telling the truth.
Speaker 8 (14:56):
She's got no reason to lie at that point, and
she's going to.
Speaker 17 (14:58):
Keep telling the truth.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Thank you probably have today.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
What is he saying? That's for our friends at the
Telehassee Democrat.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Of course, that's Klaine Maxwell's defense lawyer saying, if you
look up scapegoat in the dictionary, her face would be
next to it. Okay, she may be a scapegoat because
everyone was angry Epstein didn't go to trial.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
That doesn't mean she's innocent. Jelainne Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Maybe the key to the client list, as we call
it euphemistically, young girls that were lured by Julaine Maxwell
say she is sinister, that she's worse than Epstein himself.
(15:42):
The federal government also calls her quote crafty listen.
Speaker 18 (15:48):
Federal prosecutors wrote in Galaine Maxwell's sentencing memorandum that the
socialite displayed a significant pattern of this on his conduct.
They noted several instances of Maxwell lying under oath. In
twenty two twenty one, Maxwell told the court, I have
committed no crime, which was demonstrably false. In a twenty
sixteen deposition, Maxwell Clayton she never gave victim Annie Farmer
(16:09):
a massage, but Farmer's testimony at trial established that as
a lie. Maxwell also lied about her assets while applying
for bail. Prosecutors wrote, in short, the defendant decides when
she wishes to disclose facts to the court, and those
facts shift when it serves the defendant's interests.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I mean, the reality is, who do you think Epsen's
hanging around with nuns and priests and Vergence.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
No, he's with Jelaine.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Maxwell, Julaine Maxwell, his hinch person, his bills, Abob has
been transferred to a cushy, dormitory style jail, and she
gives hours and hours of statements, all of them a
pack of lies. Is she trying to curry favor to
pave the way to a pardon? Well, speaking of her lies,
(16:57):
I want you to hear one right off the top.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Listen.
Speaker 19 (17:00):
So, there's been a lot of conversations about whether mister
Epstein maintained like a list of people, like a book of.
Speaker 20 (17:14):
Famous people that he knew.
Speaker 19 (17:18):
Like a it's called a black book, or a.
Speaker 8 (17:21):
Client list or a list.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Did you know of the existence of any such list.
There is no list. We'll start with that.
Speaker 21 (17:31):
The genesis of that story I can actually trace for
you from its absolute inception. If that is what you're
interested in.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
First, you know to be sure there is no list.
There's no client list, nothing like that. No, there's nothing.
You know that. I'm obviously.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
During the time that you were with.
Speaker 20 (17:53):
Mister Epstein, and even in the two thousands when you
were around less frequently, you never observed or univer saw
any sort of list or black book or a list
of individuals who linked to certain messuses or anything like that.
Speaker 21 (18:14):
Absolutely no, there is no list. There is no I'm
not aware of any blackmail. I never heard, I never
heard that, I never saw it, and I never I
never imagined it. So The original statement that Brad Edwards
makes that's in the documents temporaneously is that it's pieces
(18:38):
of paper.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That Alfredo has.
Speaker 21 (18:41):
It then morphs into something that Alfredo took, a book
that Alfredo took from Epstein's computer. But there's no computer
I know, certainly not in two thousand and five when
this was allegedly taken. That came out as a book,
and then it morphed into at the Civil Times, my
civil cases, into a book that was taken from my computer,
(19:05):
and then it moved into the Southern District of New
York as a combination list of Mina and Epstein's.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
That is.
Speaker 21 (19:13):
A metamorphosis through documents that you can trace.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
What in the world is she trying to say, joining
me Crime Stories investigative reporter Sidney Sumner, She's talking about
someone named Alfredo Rodriguez. And isn't that Epstein's butler. Yes,
of course he had a butler. Explain what she's saying,
(19:40):
Sidney Sumner.
Speaker 16 (19:42):
Here she's saying that the purported client list that everyone
is freaking out about wants to see doesn't really exist.
But to get Blanche up to speed on where exactly
this rumor came from, she it goes all the way
back to two thousand and nine, when Epstein has just
(20:04):
been criminally investigated the first time and civil suits are
now coming out against him. So Maxwell claims that this
law firm that was a little bit shady took on
a lot of these Epstein victim civil suit pieces, and
one of those attorneys was working with Epstein's butler to
(20:27):
get evidence against him. So that's where Alfredo Rodriguez comes in.
And so what they claimed, what this lawyer claimed to
be a client list was really just in address book
that the butler went through and apparently circled or marked
people who were involved in this trafficking ring.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, sounds like evidence to me. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
So first of all, Gallain Maxwell, in her effort to
get a pardon, says there is no client list.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Let's hear what else she has to say.
Speaker 22 (21:12):
Maxwell denies every aspect of Virginia Geffray's victimization, says she
never recruited messuses. Maxwell insists Jeffrey is lying about this
with Prince Andrew. Maxwell says Jeffrey used evidence from flight
logs to fabricate the story, saying she was busy with
her mom's eightieth birthday, her home in London was not
(21:32):
a suitable venue for royalty. In Jeffrey's description of her bathroom,
where Prince Andrew allegedly was missing unforgettable details.
Speaker 20 (21:42):
When you were just asked about the photo, you said
you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think
it was just misstated or do you think it's literally
a fake photo.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I believe it's literally a fake Good Why do you
think that? Well, first of all, I don't remember it.
Speaker 21 (22:03):
Well, okay, but the outfit I'm wearing is the outfit
from my mom's birthday body.
Speaker 20 (22:11):
So but you don't have any Do you dispute that
they've met each other?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Do you know whether they've met each other? I do
not know that they meant okay.
Speaker 20 (22:23):
So you not only so you think the photographs fake,
but you also are not even positive they actually ever
met each other. So you don't have a specific recollection
of kind of being at an event or a party
or your apartment. You're flat London with Prince Andrew and.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Absolutely let's listen to Prince Andrew speaking to the BBC.
Speaker 23 (22:51):
I don't believe it's a picture of me in London
because when I go out to When I go out
in London, I wear a suit and a tie.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
That's what I.
Speaker 23 (23:00):
Would describe is those are my traveling clothes.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That's me.
Speaker 23 (23:03):
But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
but I don't know. I have simply no recollection of
a photograph ever being taken. The photograph is taken upstairs,
and I don't think I have a went upstairs.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
In Galln's height.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's through our friends that maybe saying that is exactly
why defendants are told keep your yap shut, exercise your
right to the Fifth Amendment. Because Andrew just it got
worse and worse and worse. I want you to hear
proof that that.
Speaker 24 (23:39):
Photo was real. Despite Gallaine Maxwell's insistence the photo of her,
Virginia Goofray and Prince Andrew is a flat out fake,
the Mail on Sunday says they saw the proof it
is real. Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas took the
pictures that first ran in twenty eleven of the original
printed photo. Thomas saw a Walgreens received for the Prince.
(24:00):
I'm a location just a few miles from Gufray's West
Palm Beach home and now Nearly fifteen years later, Thomas
realized he also photographed the back of the print. The
back of the photo is stamped with the print date
March thirteen, two thousand and one, just three days after
Gufrey was trafficked to the prints in London.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
It's not just about a client list, a little black book,
or videos. It's about a potential murder. Yes of Epstein.
You may not care about his life, but don't you
care about the truth. Don't you want to know what
really happened and what happened to the other four people
(24:43):
connected to this case who all committed suicide? Joining me
Joseph Scott Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, and he's the star of a
hit podcast, Body Bags, with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott,
you and I both say that you know, if I
were a better I take vegas odds Epstein was murdered.
(25:07):
Now I'm throwing out vegas odds, but you have reasons
to think he's.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
He was murdered. What is he number four or five.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Connected to this case that has committed or had an
OD And you know if there are thousands and thousands
of victims Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
As the files indicate that there are.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I mean, this goes back for decades, and you get
a new little girl every week. It adds up, right,
who else may have committed or died that could have testified? Yes,
she wants out, I guess. So why do you think
Epstein was murdered?
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Well?
Speaker 17 (25:43):
Because, well, first off, the Emmy in New York made
a critical error of using the term soft, which means
that you kind of slide into a noose where you're supported.
It doesn't have to be a total suspension hanging.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
When you say a soft hanging, are you talking about
like Robin Williams, where you attach something to the back
of your bed or your doorknob and you lean forward
to it as opposed to a violent droped down from
a raft or don't break your neck in the hanging.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Is that what you're talking about?
Speaker 16 (26:14):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 17 (26:14):
Most people associate say it man with old judicial hangings
where there's a lot of violence. That's not what they're saying. However,
the evidence bears that there was something else going on.
He's got two and I say, two thyroid fractures, and
this is a cartilaginous body. It is cartilage like in
your nose right here, So he's got two cartilage fractures
(26:37):
right here. And then if you go up on the
left side, the hyoid is very high in the neck.
That's why it generally is not fractured in a hanging.
And the left greater horn it's kind of bird shape
the great the left greater horn is snapped off a tip.
He's also got some other curious insults to his body,
his deltoid or right here where the neck kind of
(27:01):
dumps into the shoulder. He's got a deep tissue bruise
right here, which is not going to be associated with
the hanging Nancy. He's also got these kind of faint
bruises that they documented on both the wrist and the ankles.
There's a lot of violence that has been associated with
his death, or evidence of it, at least some kind
of trauma.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Joining us tonight is a very special guest, Mark Epstein.
This is the biological brother of Jeffrey Epstein, now dead.
Mister Epstein, thank you for.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Being with us.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
You're welcome, Mark, if I may call you that. Sure,
you have been disturbed from day one about the claim
your brother, Jeffrey Epstein committed to you say that did
not happen.
Speaker 15 (27:55):
Why when I first heard that Jeffrey was found dead
from the parent suicide, I heard it on CNN. The
government didn't notify me as they claimed. I heard it
on CNN. And at first I had no reason to
doubt that, because, you know, I knew he was in jail,
he was potentially facing a very long term. I knew
he wouldn't want to live like that. He didn't have
(28:15):
any children to worry about. Our parents are gone, and
he wouldn't have to worry about me. So there was
no reason to doubt that. But then the next day,
the next morning, I had to I had to identify
his body because I'm the next of kin, and they
did the autopsy, and so far, you know the same thing.
I just assumed it was a suicide. But then the
(28:37):
city pathologist who did of the autopsy, with Michael Bottom,
there's forensic pathologists on my behalf of witnessing this. They
both came out of the autopsy room and they said
they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too
much like a homicide. And then a few days later,
Barbara Sampson, who was the chief medical examiner. She declares
(28:59):
it was a suicide. And let's be clear, Barbara Sampson
never saw the body. She wasn't at the autopsy, and
after the autopsy was over that day, we blamed the body,
so she never saw it. Also a few days after
the death, Bill Barr, an Attorney General, came out publicly
(29:19):
and stated that he saw the video and he saw
that nobody went in or out of the tier, and
that convinced him it was a suicide. And when I
heard that, I thought, this is ridiculous to assume that
it was a suicide because nobody went in or out
when there were twelve other prisoners on that tier. I
would not have to go in or out of that
door if they were going to kill somebody on the tier.
(29:40):
And I was told that should doors were left unlocked
that night, And I was also told by somebody who
was familiar with the prison that they weren't surprised to
hear that. And also to think that somebody could get
to Jeffrey's tier, go inside, you kill somebody, and then
leave completely undetected. It's just like a stupid statement that
(30:01):
you know, that's not what you're based on. We can't
find out who the other prisoners on that tier were,
when did they get there, and where are they now.
There's been no interviews of all the prisoners on the tier,
which would normally be done in a situation like that.
There's no record of that. And then also the night
when they locked up, but we have there as a
(30:23):
record of you know, we know about the two gods
that got in trouble, you know, because they weren't doing
the rounds, you know, Toby Noel and Michael Thomas. No
Michael Thomas came on shift in the middle of the night,
so he wasn't there when they locked up the tier.
And there's never any there's never ever just one guard there.
On the reports, there's mentioned of an unnamed guard number
(30:43):
one and an unnamed guard number two. There are questions
who are they and why are they unnamed? Are they
actual prison guards? Could they have been put there to,
you know, to kill somebody and then they disappeared into
ether without any record of who they are. It's all
these unanswered questions that in a normal wear on his face,
(31:04):
even if it was a suicide, these questions would not
be kept secrets.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Mister Cooben joining US Chief Legal Officer gold to Law,
who has represented nine and counting Epstein victims. Are any
of your clients worried about how people connected to this
case or dropping dead light flies?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
First of all, the moment he was re arrested in
New York when his plane landed, or New Jersey at
that moment, I did an interview shortly thereafter, advising the
general public he was never making it out alive, and
you know, prophetically he didn't. I was one of the
first ones that said he wouldn't make it out alive,
and frankly, I continue to be a disbeliever in the
(31:44):
story that's been populated by the FEDS and the Department
of Justice. There are just way too many connections here.
I can also tell you exclusively because I don't know
that I've ever talked about this before, but shortly after
he passed in jail, I received a call from one
of the guards at the facility who had retired. This
is somebody that wasn't working there at the time, but
(32:06):
was able to speak with me on authority because he
had worked there and said, there is no way that
someone within that type of a facility could have the
opportunity to commit suicide. This is the most secure, one
of the most secure prisons we have in the United States.
It is a prison within a prison within a prison.
It is three levels of high security, constantly monitored. And
(32:30):
it was unbelievable to him that somebody in there would
potentially be able to commit suicide. And then look at
the photographs. This is a gentleman that was on suicide
Watch just a few weeks prior, and yet they give
him sheets, and they give him pill bottles, and they
give him wires. In the photographs, you can see all
of the things that they gave him that potentially they
(32:53):
could then use later to say, oh, well, look at
all this stuff he used to commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Rearing its ugly head is the accusation that the jail
video has been edited from the night of Epstein's death.
His own brother refuses to call it a suicide.
Speaker 24 (33:20):
Listen to this challenging ag Bondi's claim of one minute
of epstein prison video is missing due to a daily reset.
Wired reports the video was cut together in Adobe Premiere
Pro from two video files. If true, this contradicts the
Justice Department claimed that footage was raw metadata from the
raw Epstein prison video shows approximately two minutes and fifty
(33:42):
three seconds were removed from one of two stitched together clips,
and the cut starts right at the missing minute.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Now keep in mind there are five suicides connected to
the Epstein investigation.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Who are they?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Number one obviously Epstein, Number two, his French counterpart, the
French Epstein who was accused and behind bars on supplying
under age girls.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Who else?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Virginia Jeffrey and two other Epstein victims, all who could.
Speaker 24 (34:21):
Have testified In a deep dive into the metadata embedded
in the video presented to the American people as quote.
Raw Wired published analysis indicating the file was assembled from
at least two different source clips saved multiple times over
a period of more than three hours on May twenty third,
twenty twenty five. The file was then created at four
(34:42):
forty eight pm and last modified at eight sixteen pm
the same day, and uploaded to the Justice Department's website,
where the edited clip is presented as raw footage.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter who has poured through
countless documents and interviews. Dave mac we first heard that
there was a glitch in the video recording system where
Epstein was housed behind bars. There were a lot of
glitches that night, weren't there, Dave mac two guards on
(35:17):
duty in view of Epstein. He could see them, and
they could see him. They didn't have to watch the
surveillance video. Both of them either fell asleep or went
online shopping at the time, he committed. But it's not
just one minute. There's not just one minute missing from
(35:40):
the jail house video, is there?
Speaker 24 (35:42):
Dave Mac correct Nancy that one minute that Attorney General
Bondi has been popping about the reset of the video
at eleven fifty eight fifty eight, saying that was because
it was a nineteen ninety nine system. Well, it might
be explainable if that was the only problem here. But
(36:04):
in total, two minutes and fifty three seconds of video
appears to have been manipulated and is missing. They're able
to go in and look at these computer programs and
how they're used. They can tell when you make a
cut in the video, and when you join two separate
pieces together. They can look and see from your keyboard
(36:24):
strokes everything that's been done, to the point where they're
able to see how.
Speaker 16 (36:28):
This piece of video is cut, how it was.
Speaker 24 (36:30):
Been saved, another piece is cut and saved, and then
the two pieces are brought together. The problem is when
you do all that and then present it as supposed
raw footage.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
And it was absolutely titled raw footage, raw footage, which
means unedited. But you could see the jumps as we
call them in this business. The jumps video is splices
together listen.
Speaker 24 (36:57):
Information has not been released about the inmates and sells
adjacent to Epstein. In the days leading up to his death.
There were twelve to fourteen inmates near Epstein, but no
information about who the inmates were, when the inmates were
placed in the cells near Epstein, how long the individuals
had been in jail, when where they moved, and where
did they go. Mark Epstein says one of the inmates
(37:17):
had been in the cellar area for a time prior
to Epstein's arrest and subsequent attainment, and another died after
Epstein's death. No information is available about the other ten
to twelve inmates in the area when Epstein died.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
An Epstein bombshell, a shadowy figure dressed as an inmate
is spotted climbing the.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Stairs to Epstein's cell.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
What and we're just getting eleven new hours of video.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Where's that video been all this time?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
It's been described as a mystery orange blob that is
not entirely true.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Let's take a look at a clip we got from
the video that has just been released.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
You have to look in the original copy. It's a
lot easier to see, but it is an elongated orange figure.
It's not as they're trying to tell us somebody carrying
laundry that had.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
That's much better. That's much better.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
These are steps going up to Epstein's tier. Okay, we've
been told the guards were asleep and one was shopping
online when he was killed.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
We've been told the two.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Doors we've seen over and over and over the only
way to get onto his cell tear That is a lie.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
See those two doors, total bs.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Those are not the only two ways to get in
and out of that tier. Now, we also were told
that there's a problem with the CCTV that you can't
see Epstein sell. Well, okay, everything we're being fed is poison.
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 24 (39:03):
The public was already skeptical of the DOJ's claims. The
footage from the shoe where Jeffrey Epstein was housed clearly
shows Epstein is the only person who entered his cell
block the night of his death. A mysterious orange blob
climbing the steps to L Block has eviscerated all trust.
In their review, the Inspector General says the movement on
the staircase around ten forty pm is Cojovian Noel carrying
(39:27):
inmate Lennon's up to the L block, but video analysis
experts say it's more likely the figure was wearing orange,
not carrying orange material.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Straight out to TISA. Tail's joining US investigative reporter. She's
at TISA, tilS on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
TISA hit me the fact.
Speaker 25 (39:44):
That we are looking on a highly edited tape they
released eleven hours.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
They said there was a minute that skip.
Speaker 25 (39:51):
We now know that there's about eight minutes missing from
that tape. There's not even the full it's ten hours,
fifty two minutes. See a shadowy orange figure and they
want us, in a in a post ditty trial world,
to believe that it's some Tom and Jerry stack of
orange jumpsuits up to the ceiling that they're carrying through
(40:15):
the through the correctional facility. And they want us to
believe that that's not a human the fact that the
administration listen, who knows why they are telling us not
to believe are lying eyes, But we see it for
what it is. That is a human being walking in
to a cell.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Let's see it again.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
She's right, TA said my words exactly should I believe
you are my lion eyes? I see what I see
joining us right now is a very special guest. It
is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein. You know, Mark, I
know that people are using you like a crystal ball
to try to see into the mind of your brother
(40:56):
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
What I want to talk to you about.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Is that orange clad figure that is now appearing on
video and people are seeing it for the first time,
which is concerning and not in a good way. That
we're just now seeing video which looks like someone walking
up and down a stairwell, coming out of a stairwell
(41:24):
and walking around on your brother's floor.
Speaker 15 (41:27):
Well, there's a lot of things on that video that
don't make sense. In the early part of the video,
they said that they saw Jeffrey being walked into his cell.
First of all, you can't tell if that's Jeffrey or not.
You can't tell who it is, And you don't just
walk into Jeffrey's shell off of that common area. You
have to go up that staircase through a barred, locked
door and then into the cell. He was the first
(41:49):
sell on the right hand side of the tier, so
you don't just casually walk into his cell. And you know,
I've said before, every time the government tries to squash
this thing, they just it deeper into a hole with misinformation.
People have viewed the videotape and they've seen it's been edited,
and it's been dopted, and it's split from a couple
of different feeds. So you know, how do you trust this?
(42:14):
You can?
Speaker 22 (42:15):
The House Oversight Committee has released over thirty three thousand
pages of Epstein related records and dozens of video and
audio recordings associated with the investigation, though committee members have
warned that in addition to heavy redaction, over ninety seven
percent of the releases already public. Those diving into the
files have discovered interesting bits in the three percent that
(42:37):
is new. Most interesting, the missing minute of the MCC
surveillance footage has been.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Found Sidney Sumner. What does the video depict?
Speaker 16 (42:49):
According to the government, the video depicts the material handler.
This unnamed employee who was also on shift at the
time of Tovia Noel leaving to go home. So they
are claiming that this is an employee who just finished
his shift and is heading home for the night, and
(43:09):
he walks off screen toward the main entesce of the
shoe and does not approach Epstein's cell That's what they
tell us is happening. But of course the angle of
this video is just absolutely horrible. It really doesn't show
us much of anything, so it's really unclear if he
did head out the main entrance of the shoe or
(43:31):
could that person have gone up to where Epstein was
being housed.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
We don't know, well, Sadie Sumner, Obviously there is more
than one person in that area around Epstein's cell.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
It's not just one person leaving for the night.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
There are more people there, and what we are being
told is there is a cluster of movement outside Epstein's cell.
Speaker 16 (43:54):
Well, so what we can see in the video these
are the bottom of the stairs up to Epstein's cell block,
so we can just barely see a sliver of that staircase.
And earlier in the previous release of this surveillance video,
we all saw that orange blob, and again they told
(44:15):
us that that person was actually heading up towards that
cell block carrying it was an employee apparently carrying inmate
linens or an inmate uniform. And of course we're all
screaming bs. That's somebody in an inmate uniform walking up
that staircase. So it's a very unclear angle, but you're right,
(44:36):
it doesn't look like just one person.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
All along, we have had nothing but lies. Lies.
Speaker 22 (44:50):
I was fourteen years old, I was sixteen years old,
was sixteen.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Seventeen, fourteen years old.
Speaker 6 (44:56):
This is me, this was me, This is me, and
when I met Jeffrey Epstein me.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
When I met Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 26 (45:04):
It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.
It's time to shine a light into the darkness.
Speaker 5 (45:11):
These are women who have come forward, and it's a
whole slew of women kicking the can down the road.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
We are not having it. We're going to keep the
pressure up.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Epstein victims storm DC, demanding justice.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
I was only fourteen years old when I met Jeffrey.
It was the summer of high school. I was working
three jobs to try to support my mom and my sister.
When a friend of mine in the neighborhood told me
that I could make three hundred dollars to give an
old guy a massage. It went from a dream job
to the worst nightmare. Jeffrey assistant Leslie Groff would call
(45:51):
me and tell me that I needed to be at
the house so often that I ended up dropping out
of high school before ninth grade, and I never went back.
From fourteen to seventeen years old, I went and worked
for Jeffrey instead of receiving an education. Every day I
hope that he would offer me a real job as
(46:12):
one of his assistant or something something important. I would
finally have made it big as like we say, the
American dream, that they never came. I had no way,
I had no way out. I was until he finally
told me that I was too old. There are many
pieces of my story that I can't remember no matter
(46:35):
how hard I try. The constant state of wonder causes
me so much fear and so much confusion. My therapist
is that my brain is just trying to protect this self,
But it's so hard to begin to heal knowing that
there are people out there who know more about my
abuse than I do. The worst part is that the
(46:57):
government is still in possession right now of the documents
and information about that could help me remember and get
over all of this, maybe and help me heal. They
have documents with my name on them that were confiscated
(47:20):
from Jeffrey Epstein's house and could help me put the
pieces of my own life back together. But I don't
have any of it, and I know the same is
true for many of these women.
Speaker 27 (47:31):
My name is Annie Farmer, and I was sixteen years
old when I was blown to New Mexico to spend
a weekend with Epstein and Maxwell. That same year, nineteen
ninety six, my sister Maria Farmer reported what happened to
me there, along with reporting her own assaults at their
hands and their theft of sensitive photos of herself, of
(47:53):
me and our younger sister that she had taken for
her work as a figuritive painter. I am now forty
six years old. Thirty years later, we still do not
know why that report wasn't properly investigated, or why Epstein
and his associates were allowed to harm hundreds, if not thousands,
of other girls and young women. We have never been
(48:14):
told whether those images were found when they discovered a
large amount of child sexual abuse material on his property.
Speaker 28 (48:20):
And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein
undressed and asked me to do things to him. My
eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been
more scared in my life. When it was over, he
paid me two hundred dollars and requested in exchange that
(48:41):
I bring a girl each time to make another two
hundred dollars. I told him I did not want to
do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I
felt in hope to never hear from him again, but
he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful,
and he would not let me go. I felt I
had no choice If I disobeyed him, I knew so
thing God would happen.
Speaker 26 (49:01):
I would like to announce here today, us Epstein survivors
have been discussing creating our own list.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
We know the names many of us were.
Speaker 6 (49:11):
Abused by them.
Speaker 26 (49:13):
Now, together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names
we all know who regularly and who are regularly in
the Epstein world. And it will be done by survivors
and for survivors. No one else is involved that.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
I'm at Rep. Thomas Massey on X.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
You are seeing the Survivors in DC in the last
Days demanding justice Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I want
to introduce you a very special guest, a Jeffrey Epstein survivor.
(49:58):
I hate to always say victim because Lisa Phillips has
gone on to become a warrior. Yes she's a mother
of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous former Ford Agency model. Yes,
she's been in a major motion picture, among many things.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
Any given Sunday, a lot of people have seen that
she's in it. She's beautiful, she's accomplished, she's articulate. She's
also a.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Jeffrey Epstein victim now survivor slash warrior.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
Lisa, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 6 (50:37):
Well, I just want to say thank you for that intro.
The survivors are here because we are fed up and
we are not victims. We do not like to be
called victims. We are survivors. We're taking our power back
because what happened to me on that island back in
two thousand should have never happened. I was brought by
(51:00):
another young girl, and that was the genius of Jeffrey
Epstein's sex trafficking ring as he got other girls and
young women to bring more.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
So when you flew, when you were flown to the island,
what did you think was going to happen?
Speaker 6 (51:17):
Lisa, Nancy. I took a boat to the island. I
was at Tortola, the island next door. What kind of
boat like a ferry boat.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
So somebody picked you up at a dock, you got on,
they took you over, and they dropped you off at
an appointed spot.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (51:32):
That's correct?
Speaker 1 (51:32):
That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you
haven't even spoken to or or you don't know their names.
So amazing how your stories already are like a fingerprint story.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
They fit exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, you get to Epstein's island and what happens.
Speaker 6 (51:50):
We actually had a really good time on the island
for the first several hours, hanging out in the pool,
and you know, we had a wonderful dinner where I
met Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey is charming and he's very intelligent,
and he's locked in on you.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
You stated that you were told, hey, it's just a massage,
you have to do it.
Speaker 6 (52:11):
Who told you that the girl who brought me there.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
How in the hay did it get to You've got
to give him a massage?
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Just like that.
Speaker 6 (52:21):
It was so quick. It was a wonderful day, just
a normal day. And then right when it was time,
everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole island looked different.
The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation and the anxiousness
of like, what the frick is going on here? And
I'm looking at her and I could see she has
a little fear in her eyes. You know, something was
(52:43):
wrong with her because she didn't want to do it,
you know, but it's just something. She took a deep
breath and she's like, we have to do it, And
so I just went with her because I didn't feel
like I had a choice. I was literally trapped on
an island at that point. There was nowhere to run,
and I was scared to death of saying no, I'm
not going to do it. I didn't have it in me,
and be like no way, you know, I just couldn't
(53:03):
do it. I just froze and just went with her.
And then what happened, Like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein,
it was a real massage, It really was. It was playful,
and he was funny, and he was now asking personal,
flirty questions, and you know, he tries to make it
(53:24):
seem like it's no big deal. You know, that's how
he is until then he turns. There's a little darkness.
There's a little there's a lot of darkness in Jeffrey Epstein.
So he has this mask if I'm your mentor, I'm
going to help you out, I'm this great, caring, wonderful person.
Look at all my rich, powerful friends. Like he has
a six steer that pulls, you know, young women in
(53:46):
because he makes them feel really safe, and he makes
you feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then
there's a darkness that which is when he just wants
to get what he wants, and so he loves massages.
He does that is his baseline is massage. But then
it always switches into some type of a little bit
of torture, you know, if he wants to hurt you
(54:08):
a little bit with his with his hands and with objects,
and with the fact that he can control the two
young women in the room. So it was it was scary.
Speaker 4 (54:21):
It was just.
Speaker 6 (54:24):
I just I'm traumatized every time I think about it,
and I know you have to ask these questions, but
it was just the worst night of my life.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Lisa. Did he to you?
Speaker 6 (54:34):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (54:40):
And then you said the secretary would then call you
non stop to get you to bring other girls women
to the island.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
I'm getting ahead of myself after he.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I'm sorry. You know I'm asking you this, Lisa, because
people don't think it happened, because no one is doing anything.
Because Glaine Maxwell is on the verge of walking free.
I'm not letting it go because there are other clients
(55:27):
that statutory girls and that forced young women into unwanted sex.
That's and nothing is being done.
Speaker 3 (55:38):
And I don't get it. I don't get why we're
being lied to.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
And I see you sitting there crying, and it's like
pouring gas on a fire to me to think nothing
has been done.
Speaker 3 (55:57):
Nothing. I also don't believe it can suicide. This totallys Yes,
what is your message tonight, Lisa.
Speaker 6 (56:08):
It is not your fault. It took me a long
time to get there. And sometimes it's just seeing other survivors.
Sometimes you just need to connect with other survivors, whether
it's Epstein or any other serial predator, or anyone who
can listen to you. You need support and you need
to find the community, and you're not alone. You are
(56:32):
not alone to all.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
The survivors out there. Right now we are speaking with
Lisa Phillips who survived Epstein. Please stay strong and keep
the faith. Lisa, thank you for being with us, and
thank you for being brave for other crime victims to
(56:59):
see you and hear you and understand what you've been through,
what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey
Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell.
Speaker 3 (57:08):
But yet you are still fighting the fight.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
And now we remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Jacob
Picket Boone County Sheriffs, Indiana, thirty four, shot and killed
in the line of duty, survived by wife turned widow,
Jennifer Sons Lincoln and Wade. American hero Deputy Sheriff Jacob Pickett.
(57:34):
Nancy Grace signing off, good night friend,
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Birds of a feather flock
together Epstein and Juliane Maxwell.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
There were literally hundreds of victims.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
It makes me sick, gag.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hundreds of young girls who had been traffic by Epstein
and Maxwell.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Her name is like dirt in my mouth. There is
no missed lies. I never heard that lies.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I never imagined it lies.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
There they are on their private plane. You know what
bite me?
Speaker 5 (00:34):
This Epstein story is never going to end.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
People connected to this case or dropping dead light flies.
Speaker 6 (00:40):
He was a master manipulator.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
He's having dinner with Satan tonight.
Speaker 7 (00:58):
What you're going to see is a lot of flight logs,
a lot of names, a lot of information.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
But it's pretty sick what.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
That man did.
Speaker 7 (01:09):
A source had told me where the documents were being kept,
Southern District of New York.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Shock.
Speaker 7 (01:15):
So we got them all by, hopefully all of them.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Friday at eight am.
Speaker 7 (01:19):
Thousands of pages of documents. I have the FBI going
through them. Director Patel is going to get us a
detailed report as to why the FBI withheld all of
those documents.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
That is from our friends at Fox News.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Joining us now is a very special guest Spencer couven
chief legal officer, Gold Law, who has represented nine Epstein victims.
Nine nine now prosecuted a lot of cases, and when
I would have three or four victims, that would be
(01:54):
like an avalanche. You a single lawyer have represented nine,
which tells me that there are many many more out there,
probably that we don't even know about.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I've been representing victims going back to the original prosecution
of this case in Palm Beach. I represented victim number one,
that was a fourteen year old girl that I helped
walk through the criminal justice and then subsequently the civil
justice system, which started the landfall of future victims of
Jeffrey Epstein. I can tell you that in my contacts
(02:30):
with the FBI during those investigations, there were literally hundreds
of victims, hundreds of young girls who had been trafficked
by Epstein and Maxwell. They were out there, and then
there were more than hundreds that actually submitted claims when
the funds were seized over in the Virgin Islands after
his arrest. So the victims are numerous, the stories are voluminous.
(02:54):
They involve high profile individuals in the business community, high
profile politician, royalty, you name it. Jeffrey Epstein had the
goods on all of them, and there were a lot
of people. I have no doubt that we're afraid of
what he had to say.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Dylan Howard is with US investigative journalists and author of
Epstein Dead.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Men Tell No Tales.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm very curious as to why the documents are not
being disclosed now. Dylan Howard, you suggest a nefarious relationship
between Trump and Epstein. Many celebrities take photos that later
they wish they hadn't taken. Photos alone do not indicate
(03:37):
wrongdoing on behalf of Trump. But I will tell you
what is a smoking.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Gun to me.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
We were told the documents would be released. Now we're
being told there's nothing to see. If there's nothing to see,
why not release them.
Speaker 8 (03:58):
No, Natal, I'm not suggested see an afarious link between
Trump and Epstein. What I'm saying is that there has
been a search for an afarious link between Trump and Epstein.
But I think that obscures somewhat the real crux of
the matter here, and that is that there is significant
intelligence in the hands of the Department of Justice and
the FBI that has not been released to the American people.
(04:22):
And we know that through various motions that have been
put forward in various civil cases in which the SDNY
the Southern District of New York, has argued that the
release of those Epstein files could quote reasonably be expected
to interfere with a potential appeal of Epstein's.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
I know, I've never seen prosecutors so worried about the
interests of a convicted felon. I eat Julane Maxwell, and
this goes back to before Bondy. The promise that these
die huments would be released and that any co conspirator
would be prosecutor goes all the way back to Attorney
(05:06):
General William Barr.
Speaker 9 (05:08):
This case will continue on against anyone who was complicit
with Epstein. Any co conspirators should not rest easy.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
That's my friends at CBS.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Let's just remind everyone what this case is about. Listen
to Virginia Jeffrey, one of the five individuals who allegedly
committed suicide connected to the Epstein case.
Speaker 10 (05:34):
You said, take off your clothes. I had these little
girl undies on, like little hearts on them, I remember,
and they were laughing at that because they liked that
the younger you look, the better it is. It turned
into it turns very sexual, and it was abused straight
away from both of them. I had been a runaway
(05:54):
and I had been abused before.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
So to have this, you know, ability to.
Speaker 10 (05:59):
Get educ and do something with my life, I thought
I was turning around.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's one my friends at Miami Harold and ITV News
and Lifetime, Dylan Howard. That's what this case is all about,
the trafficking and exploitation of what we now believe to
be thousands of little girls. Now, why on God's green
earth would we not want to release files about the
(06:24):
desecration and the victimization of little girls.
Speaker 8 (06:28):
At the very heart of this lies a very deep
and disturbing question. If Jeffrey Epstein was operating a child
sex ring, was he doing it for his own sexual
proclivities or was he doing it for a perhaps far
more nefarious cause. And I think the answer lies there.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
We have proof that Jeffrey Epstein's child sex trafficking ring
spans much further.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Than just the US.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'm talking about proof that girls as young as twelve
years old were flown from various countries to Epstein's island,
where they were handed over like a pizza delivery to
Jeffrey Epstein and his wealthy clients joining us tonight is
(07:20):
a very special guest, Barry Levine. Barry is the author
of an incredible book called Listen to This, The Spider
inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gilaine Maxwell.
The fact that Epstein wasn't just finding teen girls in
(07:42):
Florida that were usually underprivileged, single parent home, no money,
no hopes. He wasn't just praying on them. This sex
child sex trafficking ring is a lot bigger than a
few rolls down upon beach. We are talking about Europe.
(08:04):
We are talking about Eastern Europe. We are talking about children,
girls as young as twelve years old, being put on
planes and flown to the US Virgin Islands, delivered like
a pizza to Jeffrey Epstein and then his French counterpart,
(08:25):
Jean le Brunelle, is dead behind bars.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Wow, what a coincidink. You have uncovered evidence that this
is a world wide operation.
Speaker 11 (08:39):
Explain that's absolutely correct, Nancy, And I'm hoping that if
we ever get into these Epstein files, three hundred gigabytes
of material, that hundreds of thousands of pages, that we
will help uncover the enable who assisted Jeffrey Epstein. Now, Nansen,
(09:04):
you have to remember that after Jeffrey Epstein received that
slap on the risk conviction down in Florida in two
thousand and eight, it's part of that non prosecution agreement
in which he only had a plead guilty to state
charges for solicitation of a miner and was given a
(09:24):
sweetheart deal of fourteen months behind bars, of which most
of the time he was nine.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I just want to tell you something. You're actually making
my stomach hurt. It's actually hurting right now. If I'd
have gotten a hold of this guy, he would have
been under the jail, under the jail, and he actually
had his limo pick him up, his limo at the
Palmies jail and drive him wherever he wanted to go.
(09:53):
That's not punishment, absolutely right, Nancy.
Speaker 11 (09:58):
It was sickening in terms of of that slap on
the wrist in Florida. At the time, the FBI wanted
to put him away for seventy five years, and then
he got that sweetheart deal. And when he was out
on work release, he had a ankle bracelet and he
was having sex. As I reported in my book with
Victims while he had the ankle monitor on his leg.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Little girls, and I believe you can prove this. Little
girls as young as twelve being flown from Russia, Turkey
and beyond two the Virgin Islands, delivered directly to Jeffrey Epstein.
There are witnesses that see the little girls getting off
(10:46):
the plane and going to his mansion, not just one,
not just to a steady string. There are thousands of victims,
which leads me to who and the hell are the
other men that can are wealthy enough to pay to
fly to us Virgin Islands and have with a twelve
(11:09):
year old girl. By god, I am not letting this go, Levain,
and you shouldn't.
Speaker 11 (11:15):
And the American public and the victims, over a thousand
victims want answers. And that's why we need to open
up these FBI files. And we know that it was horrific.
He made the girls call him the godfather. He had
a gun strap to one of his bedposts. One victim
(11:36):
was so terrified that she actually attempted to swim off
the island, only to turn back when she realized the
water currents and so forth. This was a island of
hearts that Jeffrey Epstein brought these girls to and only
now are we beginning to learn some of the circumstances.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
In the last hour to start reversal from the White House,
Trump now claiming he wants the Epstein files release after
much furor over the past months. Joining us tonight is
a very special guest who has once again landed at
the forefront of the national news because of Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
May Epstein rot in Hell.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I'd like to start, of course, the news of the
night is President Trump's stark reversal on releasing the Epstein files,
and they are volume us. The twenty thousand documents we've
gotten so far as only a very small.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Percentage of what there is.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Just imagine it goes bay years and years and years
and Allen, I'm very curious as to why this has
been such an obstacle in DC, why these files have
been like hide the ball.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
From the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
We've gotten conflicting statements. We've been told by BONDI they're
sitting right here on my desk, I've got the client list.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
But then climbing, Oh, there is no such thing. Do
they think we're idiots?
Speaker 12 (13:11):
Alan, Well, there is a list, a list of FBI
names that the FBI got in interviewing the victims.
Speaker 13 (13:21):
And there is such a list.
Speaker 14 (13:22):
I've seen it, and the names have been redacted, some
of them has been made public. Being on the list
doesn't necessarily mean you're guilty. It means somebody has accused you.
But there is such a list. There's no Jeffrey Epstein
client list.
Speaker 13 (13:34):
He didn't have a.
Speaker 12 (13:35):
Little book in which he said, this woman is going
to go to this guy, this woman is going to
go here or there. There's no such list like that.
But the FBI does have names that they're suppressing. And
the judges, judges, this is the important point. Judges have
been suppressing information. They have sealed depositions.
Speaker 13 (13:52):
And I think that your program, other programs have the
right to go to court and say, look, please, the
public has the right to see that, let's unseal these depositions.
But right now, nobody benefits from suppression. And that's why
I'm so upset at courts, courts, federal judges keeping names out.
They shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
What do you think is going to happen allan, Now,
will we ever get the truth?
Speaker 15 (14:21):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
I think we're going to get the truth.
Speaker 13 (14:23):
I think there's so much public pressure and there's so
much pressure from Congress. I think in the end everything
will come out.
Speaker 12 (14:29):
It will exculpate innocent people like me, It will incumbate
guilty people, and I don't know who they are, but
whoever they are should be found guilty.
Speaker 13 (14:38):
And I think in the end the truth will prevail.
Speaker 16 (14:44):
The light has been.
Speaker 13 (14:45):
Treated unfairly for over five years now.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
If you looked up the scapegoat in the dictionary, her
face would be next to the definition, next to the
dictionary definition of it.
Speaker 11 (14:55):
She's telling the truth.
Speaker 8 (14:56):
She's got no reason to lie at that point, and
she's going to.
Speaker 17 (14:58):
Keep telling the truth.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Thank you probably have today.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
What is he saying? That's for our friends at the
Telehassee Democrat.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Of course, that's Klaine Maxwell's defense lawyer saying, if you
look up scapegoat in the dictionary, her face would be
next to it. Okay, she may be a scapegoat because
everyone was angry Epstein didn't go to trial.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
That doesn't mean she's innocent. Jelainne Maxwell.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Maybe the key to the client list, as we call
it euphemistically, young girls that were lured by Julaine Maxwell
say she is sinister, that she's worse than Epstein himself.
(15:42):
The federal government also calls her quote crafty listen.
Speaker 18 (15:48):
Federal prosecutors wrote in Galaine Maxwell's sentencing memorandum that the
socialite displayed a significant pattern of this on his conduct.
They noted several instances of Maxwell lying under oath. In
twenty two twenty one, Maxwell told the court, I have
committed no crime, which was demonstrably false. In a twenty
sixteen deposition, Maxwell Clayton she never gave victim Annie Farmer
(16:09):
a massage, but Farmer's testimony at trial established that as
a lie. Maxwell also lied about her assets while applying
for bail. Prosecutors wrote, in short, the defendant decides when
she wishes to disclose facts to the court, and those
facts shift when it serves the defendant's interests.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I mean, the reality is, who do you think Epsen's
hanging around with nuns and priests and Vergence.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
No, he's with Jelaine.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Maxwell, Julaine Maxwell, his hinch person, his bills, Abob has
been transferred to a cushy, dormitory style jail, and she
gives hours and hours of statements, all of them a
pack of lies. Is she trying to curry favor to
pave the way to a pardon? Well, speaking of her lies,
(16:57):
I want you to hear one right off the top.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Listen.
Speaker 19 (17:00):
So, there's been a lot of conversations about whether mister
Epstein maintained like a list of people, like a book of.
Speaker 20 (17:14):
Famous people that he knew.
Speaker 19 (17:18):
Like a it's called a black book, or a.
Speaker 8 (17:21):
Client list or a list.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Did you know of the existence of any such list.
There is no list. We'll start with that.
Speaker 21 (17:31):
The genesis of that story I can actually trace for
you from its absolute inception. If that is what you're
interested in.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
First, you know to be sure there is no list.
There's no client list, nothing like that. No, there's nothing.
You know that. I'm obviously.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
During the time that you were with.
Speaker 20 (17:53):
Mister Epstein, and even in the two thousands when you
were around less frequently, you never observed or univer saw
any sort of list or black book or a list
of individuals who linked to certain messuses or anything like that.
Speaker 21 (18:14):
Absolutely no, there is no list. There is no I'm
not aware of any blackmail. I never heard, I never
heard that, I never saw it, and I never I
never imagined it. So The original statement that Brad Edwards
makes that's in the documents temporaneously is that it's pieces
(18:38):
of paper.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
That Alfredo has.
Speaker 21 (18:41):
It then morphs into something that Alfredo took, a book
that Alfredo took from Epstein's computer. But there's no computer
I know, certainly not in two thousand and five when
this was allegedly taken. That came out as a book,
and then it morphed into at the Civil Times, my
civil cases, into a book that was taken from my computer,
(19:05):
and then it moved into the Southern District of New
York as a combination list of Mina and Epstein's.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
That is.
Speaker 21 (19:13):
A metamorphosis through documents that you can trace.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
What in the world is she trying to say, joining
me Crime Stories investigative reporter Sidney Sumner, She's talking about
someone named Alfredo Rodriguez. And isn't that Epstein's butler. Yes,
of course he had a butler. Explain what she's saying,
(19:40):
Sidney Sumner.
Speaker 16 (19:42):
Here she's saying that the purported client list that everyone
is freaking out about wants to see doesn't really exist.
But to get Blanche up to speed on where exactly
this rumor came from, she it goes all the way
back to two thousand and nine, when Epstein has just
(20:04):
been criminally investigated the first time and civil suits are
now coming out against him. So Maxwell claims that this
law firm that was a little bit shady took on
a lot of these Epstein victim civil suit pieces, and
one of those attorneys was working with Epstein's butler to
(20:27):
get evidence against him. So that's where Alfredo Rodriguez comes in.
And so what they claimed, what this lawyer claimed to
be a client list was really just in address book
that the butler went through and apparently circled or marked
people who were involved in this trafficking ring.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, sounds like evidence to me. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
So first of all, Gallain Maxwell, in her effort to
get a pardon, says there is no client list.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Let's hear what else she has to say.
Speaker 22 (21:12):
Maxwell denies every aspect of Virginia Geffray's victimization, says she
never recruited messuses. Maxwell insists Jeffrey is lying about this
with Prince Andrew. Maxwell says Jeffrey used evidence from flight
logs to fabricate the story, saying she was busy with
her mom's eightieth birthday, her home in London was not
(21:32):
a suitable venue for royalty. In Jeffrey's description of her bathroom,
where Prince Andrew allegedly was missing unforgettable details.
Speaker 20 (21:42):
When you were just asked about the photo, you said
you actually thought the photo was fake. Do you think
it was just misstated or do you think it's literally
a fake photo.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I believe it's literally a fake Good Why do you
think that? Well, first of all, I don't remember it.
Speaker 21 (22:03):
Well, okay, but the outfit I'm wearing is the outfit
from my mom's birthday body.
Speaker 20 (22:11):
So but you don't have any Do you dispute that
they've met each other?
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Do you know whether they've met each other? I do
not know that they meant okay.
Speaker 20 (22:23):
So you not only so you think the photographs fake,
but you also are not even positive they actually ever
met each other. So you don't have a specific recollection
of kind of being at an event or a party
or your apartment. You're flat London with Prince Andrew and.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Absolutely let's listen to Prince Andrew speaking to the BBC.
Speaker 23 (22:51):
I don't believe it's a picture of me in London
because when I go out to When I go out
in London, I wear a suit and a tie.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
That's what I.
Speaker 23 (23:00):
Would describe is those are my traveling clothes.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That's me.
Speaker 23 (23:03):
But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
but I don't know. I have simply no recollection of
a photograph ever being taken. The photograph is taken upstairs,
and I don't think I have a went upstairs.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
In Galln's height.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's through our friends that maybe saying that is exactly
why defendants are told keep your yap shut, exercise your
right to the Fifth Amendment. Because Andrew just it got
worse and worse and worse. I want you to hear
proof that that.
Speaker 24 (23:39):
Photo was real. Despite Gallaine Maxwell's insistence the photo of her,
Virginia Goofray and Prince Andrew is a flat out fake,
the Mail on Sunday says they saw the proof it
is real. Mail on Sunday photographer Michael Thomas took the
pictures that first ran in twenty eleven of the original
printed photo. Thomas saw a Walgreens received for the Prince.
(24:00):
I'm a location just a few miles from Gufray's West
Palm Beach home and now Nearly fifteen years later, Thomas
realized he also photographed the back of the print. The
back of the photo is stamped with the print date
March thirteen, two thousand and one, just three days after
Gufrey was trafficked to the prints in London.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
It's not just about a client list, a little black book,
or videos. It's about a potential murder. Yes of Epstein.
You may not care about his life, but don't you
care about the truth. Don't you want to know what
really happened and what happened to the other four people
(24:43):
connected to this case who all committed suicide? Joining me
Joseph Scott Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, and he's the star of a
hit podcast, Body Bags, with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott,
you and I both say that you know, if I
were a better I take vegas odds Epstein was murdered.
(25:07):
Now I'm throwing out vegas odds, but you have reasons
to think he's.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
He was murdered. What is he number four or five.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Connected to this case that has committed or had an
OD And you know if there are thousands and thousands
of victims Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
As the files indicate that there are.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I mean, this goes back for decades, and you get
a new little girl every week. It adds up, right,
who else may have committed or died that could have testified? Yes,
she wants out, I guess. So why do you think
Epstein was murdered?
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Well?
Speaker 17 (25:43):
Because, well, first off, the Emmy in New York made
a critical error of using the term soft, which means
that you kind of slide into a noose where you're supported.
It doesn't have to be a total suspension hanging.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
When you say a soft hanging, are you talking about
like Robin Williams, where you attach something to the back
of your bed or your doorknob and you lean forward
to it as opposed to a violent droped down from
a raft or don't break your neck in the hanging.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Is that what you're talking about?
Speaker 16 (26:14):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 17 (26:14):
Most people associate say it man with old judicial hangings
where there's a lot of violence. That's not what they're saying. However,
the evidence bears that there was something else going on.
He's got two and I say, two thyroid fractures, and
this is a cartilaginous body. It is cartilage like in
your nose right here, So he's got two cartilage fractures
(26:37):
right here. And then if you go up on the
left side, the hyoid is very high in the neck.
That's why it generally is not fractured in a hanging.
And the left greater horn it's kind of bird shape
the great the left greater horn is snapped off a tip.
He's also got some other curious insults to his body,
his deltoid or right here where the neck kind of
(27:01):
dumps into the shoulder. He's got a deep tissue bruise
right here, which is not going to be associated with
the hanging Nancy. He's also got these kind of faint
bruises that they documented on both the wrist and the ankles.
There's a lot of violence that has been associated with
his death, or evidence of it, at least some kind
of trauma.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Joining us tonight is a very special guest, Mark Epstein.
This is the biological brother of Jeffrey Epstein, now dead.
Mister Epstein, thank you for.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Being with us.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
You're welcome, Mark, if I may call you that. Sure,
you have been disturbed from day one about the claim
your brother, Jeffrey Epstein committed to you say that did
not happen.
Speaker 15 (27:55):
Why when I first heard that Jeffrey was found dead
from the parent suicide, I heard it on CNN. The
government didn't notify me as they claimed. I heard it
on CNN. And at first I had no reason to
doubt that, because, you know, I knew he was in jail,
he was potentially facing a very long term. I knew
he wouldn't want to live like that. He didn't have
(28:15):
any children to worry about. Our parents are gone, and
he wouldn't have to worry about me. So there was
no reason to doubt that. But then the next day,
the next morning, I had to I had to identify
his body because I'm the next of kin, and they
did the autopsy, and so far, you know the same thing.
I just assumed it was a suicide. But then the
(28:37):
city pathologist who did of the autopsy, with Michael Bottom,
there's forensic pathologists on my behalf of witnessing this. They
both came out of the autopsy room and they said
they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too
much like a homicide. And then a few days later,
Barbara Sampson, who was the chief medical examiner. She declares
(28:59):
it was a suicide. And let's be clear, Barbara Sampson
never saw the body. She wasn't at the autopsy, and
after the autopsy was over that day, we blamed the body,
so she never saw it. Also a few days after
the death, Bill Barr, an Attorney General, came out publicly
(29:19):
and stated that he saw the video and he saw
that nobody went in or out of the tier, and
that convinced him it was a suicide. And when I
heard that, I thought, this is ridiculous to assume that
it was a suicide because nobody went in or out
when there were twelve other prisoners on that tier. I
would not have to go in or out of that
door if they were going to kill somebody on the tier.
(29:40):
And I was told that should doors were left unlocked
that night, And I was also told by somebody who
was familiar with the prison that they weren't surprised to
hear that. And also to think that somebody could get
to Jeffrey's tier, go inside, you kill somebody, and then
leave completely undetected. It's just like a stupid statement that
(30:01):
you know, that's not what you're based on. We can't
find out who the other prisoners on that tier were,
when did they get there, and where are they now.
There's been no interviews of all the prisoners on the tier,
which would normally be done in a situation like that.
There's no record of that. And then also the night
when they locked up, but we have there as a
(30:23):
record of you know, we know about the two gods
that got in trouble, you know, because they weren't doing
the rounds, you know, Toby Noel and Michael Thomas. No
Michael Thomas came on shift in the middle of the night,
so he wasn't there when they locked up the tier.
And there's never any there's never ever just one guard there.
On the reports, there's mentioned of an unnamed guard number
(30:43):
one and an unnamed guard number two. There are questions
who are they and why are they unnamed? Are they
actual prison guards? Could they have been put there to,
you know, to kill somebody and then they disappeared into
ether without any record of who they are. It's all
these unanswered questions that in a normal wear on his face,
(31:04):
even if it was a suicide, these questions would not
be kept secrets.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Mister Cooben joining US Chief Legal Officer gold to Law,
who has represented nine and counting Epstein victims. Are any
of your clients worried about how people connected to this
case or dropping dead light flies?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
First of all, the moment he was re arrested in
New York when his plane landed, or New Jersey at
that moment, I did an interview shortly thereafter, advising the
general public he was never making it out alive, and
you know, prophetically he didn't. I was one of the
first ones that said he wouldn't make it out alive,
and frankly, I continue to be a disbeliever in the
(31:44):
story that's been populated by the FEDS and the Department
of Justice. There are just way too many connections here.
I can also tell you exclusively because I don't know
that I've ever talked about this before, but shortly after
he passed in jail, I received a call from one
of the guards at the facility who had retired. This
is somebody that wasn't working there at the time, but
(32:06):
was able to speak with me on authority because he
had worked there and said, there is no way that
someone within that type of a facility could have the
opportunity to commit suicide. This is the most secure, one
of the most secure prisons we have in the United States.
It is a prison within a prison within a prison.
It is three levels of high security, constantly monitored. And
(32:30):
it was unbelievable to him that somebody in there would
potentially be able to commit suicide. And then look at
the photographs. This is a gentleman that was on suicide
Watch just a few weeks prior, and yet they give
him sheets, and they give him pill bottles, and they
give him wires. In the photographs, you can see all
of the things that they gave him that potentially they
(32:53):
could then use later to say, oh, well, look at
all this stuff he used to commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Rearing its ugly head is the accusation that the jail
video has been edited from the night of Epstein's death.
His own brother refuses to call it a suicide.
Speaker 24 (33:20):
Listen to this challenging ag Bondi's claim of one minute
of epstein prison video is missing due to a daily reset.
Wired reports the video was cut together in Adobe Premiere
Pro from two video files. If true, this contradicts the
Justice Department claimed that footage was raw metadata from the
raw Epstein prison video shows approximately two minutes and fifty
(33:42):
three seconds were removed from one of two stitched together clips,
and the cut starts right at the missing minute.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Now keep in mind there are five suicides connected to
the Epstein investigation.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Who are they?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Number one obviously Epstein, Number two, his French counterpart, the
French Epstein who was accused and behind bars on supplying
under age girls.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Who else?
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Virginia Jeffrey and two other Epstein victims, all who could.
Speaker 24 (34:21):
Have testified In a deep dive into the metadata embedded
in the video presented to the American people as quote.
Raw Wired published analysis indicating the file was assembled from
at least two different source clips saved multiple times over
a period of more than three hours on May twenty third,
twenty twenty five. The file was then created at four
(34:42):
forty eight pm and last modified at eight sixteen pm
the same day, and uploaded to the Justice Department's website,
where the edited clip is presented as raw footage.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter who has poured through
countless documents and interviews. Dave mac we first heard that
there was a glitch in the video recording system where
Epstein was housed behind bars. There were a lot of
glitches that night, weren't there, Dave mac two guards on
(35:17):
duty in view of Epstein. He could see them, and
they could see him. They didn't have to watch the
surveillance video. Both of them either fell asleep or went
online shopping at the time, he committed. But it's not
just one minute. There's not just one minute missing from
(35:40):
the jail house video, is there?
Speaker 24 (35:42):
Dave Mac correct Nancy that one minute that Attorney General
Bondi has been popping about the reset of the video
at eleven fifty eight fifty eight, saying that was because
it was a nineteen ninety nine system. Well, it might
be explainable if that was the only problem here. But
(36:04):
in total, two minutes and fifty three seconds of video
appears to have been manipulated and is missing. They're able
to go in and look at these computer programs and
how they're used. They can tell when you make a
cut in the video, and when you join two separate
pieces together. They can look and see from your keyboard
(36:24):
strokes everything that's been done, to the point where they're
able to see how.
Speaker 16 (36:28):
This piece of video is cut, how it was.
Speaker 24 (36:30):
Been saved, another piece is cut and saved, and then
the two pieces are brought together. The problem is when
you do all that and then present it as supposed
raw footage.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
And it was absolutely titled raw footage, raw footage, which
means unedited. But you could see the jumps as we
call them in this business. The jumps video is splices
together listen.
Speaker 24 (36:57):
Information has not been released about the inmates and sells
adjacent to Epstein. In the days leading up to his death.
There were twelve to fourteen inmates near Epstein, but no
information about who the inmates were, when the inmates were
placed in the cells near Epstein, how long the individuals
had been in jail, when where they moved, and where
did they go. Mark Epstein says one of the inmates
(37:17):
had been in the cellar area for a time prior
to Epstein's arrest and subsequent attainment, and another died after
Epstein's death. No information is available about the other ten
to twelve inmates in the area when Epstein died.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
An Epstein bombshell, a shadowy figure dressed as an inmate
is spotted climbing the.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
Stairs to Epstein's cell.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
What and we're just getting eleven new hours of video.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Where's that video been all this time?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
It's been described as a mystery orange blob that is
not entirely true.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Let's take a look at a clip we got from
the video that has just been released.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
You have to look in the original copy. It's a
lot easier to see, but it is an elongated orange figure.
It's not as they're trying to tell us somebody carrying
laundry that had.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
That's much better. That's much better.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
These are steps going up to Epstein's tier. Okay, we've
been told the guards were asleep and one was shopping
online when he was killed.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
We've been told the two.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Doors we've seen over and over and over the only
way to get onto his cell tear That is a lie.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
See those two doors, total bs.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Those are not the only two ways to get in
and out of that tier. Now, we also were told
that there's a problem with the CCTV that you can't
see Epstein sell. Well, okay, everything we're being fed is poison.
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 24 (39:03):
The public was already skeptical of the DOJ's claims. The
footage from the shoe where Jeffrey Epstein was housed clearly
shows Epstein is the only person who entered his cell
block the night of his death. A mysterious orange blob
climbing the steps to L Block has eviscerated all trust.
In their review, the Inspector General says the movement on
the staircase around ten forty pm is Cojovian Noel carrying
(39:27):
inmate Lennon's up to the L block, but video analysis
experts say it's more likely the figure was wearing orange,
not carrying orange material.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Straight out to TISA. Tail's joining US investigative reporter. She's
at TISA, tilS on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
TISA hit me the fact.
Speaker 25 (39:44):
That we are looking on a highly edited tape they
released eleven hours.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
They said there was a minute that skip.
Speaker 25 (39:51):
We now know that there's about eight minutes missing from
that tape. There's not even the full it's ten hours,
fifty two minutes. See a shadowy orange figure and they
want us, in a in a post ditty trial world,
to believe that it's some Tom and Jerry stack of
orange jumpsuits up to the ceiling that they're carrying through
(40:15):
the through the correctional facility. And they want us to
believe that that's not a human the fact that the
administration listen, who knows why they are telling us not
to believe are lying eyes, But we see it for
what it is. That is a human being walking in
to a cell.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Let's see it again.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
She's right, TA said my words exactly should I believe
you are my lion eyes? I see what I see
joining us right now is a very special guest. It
is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein. You know, Mark, I
know that people are using you like a crystal ball
to try to see into the mind of your brother
(40:56):
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
What I want to talk to you about.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Is that orange clad figure that is now appearing on
video and people are seeing it for the first time,
which is concerning and not in a good way. That
we're just now seeing video which looks like someone walking
up and down a stairwell, coming out of a stairwell
(41:24):
and walking around on your brother's floor.
Speaker 15 (41:27):
Well, there's a lot of things on that video that
don't make sense. In the early part of the video,
they said that they saw Jeffrey being walked into his cell.
First of all, you can't tell if that's Jeffrey or not.
You can't tell who it is, And you don't just
walk into Jeffrey's shell off of that common area. You
have to go up that staircase through a barred, locked
door and then into the cell. He was the first
(41:49):
sell on the right hand side of the tier, so
you don't just casually walk into his cell. And you know,
I've said before, every time the government tries to squash
this thing, they just it deeper into a hole with misinformation.
People have viewed the videotape and they've seen it's been edited,
and it's been dopted, and it's split from a couple
of different feeds. So you know, how do you trust this?
(42:14):
You can?
Speaker 22 (42:15):
The House Oversight Committee has released over thirty three thousand
pages of Epstein related records and dozens of video and
audio recordings associated with the investigation, though committee members have
warned that in addition to heavy redaction, over ninety seven
percent of the releases already public. Those diving into the
files have discovered interesting bits in the three percent that
(42:37):
is new. Most interesting, the missing minute of the MCC
surveillance footage has been.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Found Sidney Sumner. What does the video depict?
Speaker 16 (42:49):
According to the government, the video depicts the material handler.
This unnamed employee who was also on shift at the
time of Tovia Noel leaving to go home. So they
are claiming that this is an employee who just finished
his shift and is heading home for the night, and
(43:09):
he walks off screen toward the main entesce of the
shoe and does not approach Epstein's cell That's what they
tell us is happening. But of course the angle of
this video is just absolutely horrible. It really doesn't show
us much of anything, so it's really unclear if he
did head out the main entrance of the shoe or
(43:31):
could that person have gone up to where Epstein was
being housed.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
We don't know, well, Sadie Sumner, Obviously there is more
than one person in that area around Epstein's cell.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
It's not just one person leaving for the night.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
There are more people there, and what we are being
told is there is a cluster of movement outside Epstein's cell.
Speaker 16 (43:54):
Well, so what we can see in the video these
are the bottom of the stairs up to Epstein's cell block,
so we can just barely see a sliver of that staircase.
And earlier in the previous release of this surveillance video,
we all saw that orange blob, and again they told
(44:15):
us that that person was actually heading up towards that
cell block carrying it was an employee apparently carrying inmate
linens or an inmate uniform. And of course we're all
screaming bs. That's somebody in an inmate uniform walking up
that staircase. So it's a very unclear angle, but you're right,
(44:36):
it doesn't look like just one person.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
All along, we have had nothing but lies. Lies.
Speaker 22 (44:50):
I was fourteen years old, I was sixteen years old,
was sixteen.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Seventeen, fourteen years old.
Speaker 6 (44:56):
This is me, this was me, This is me, and
when I met Jeffrey Epstein me.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
When I met Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 26 (45:04):
It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.
It's time to shine a light into the darkness.
Speaker 5 (45:11):
These are women who have come forward, and it's a
whole slew of women kicking the can down the road.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
We are not having it. We're going to keep the
pressure up.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Epstein victims storm DC, demanding justice.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
I was only fourteen years old when I met Jeffrey.
It was the summer of high school. I was working
three jobs to try to support my mom and my sister.
When a friend of mine in the neighborhood told me
that I could make three hundred dollars to give an
old guy a massage. It went from a dream job
to the worst nightmare. Jeffrey assistant Leslie Groff would call
(45:51):
me and tell me that I needed to be at
the house so often that I ended up dropping out
of high school before ninth grade, and I never went back.
From fourteen to seventeen years old, I went and worked
for Jeffrey instead of receiving an education. Every day I
hope that he would offer me a real job as
(46:12):
one of his assistant or something something important. I would
finally have made it big as like we say, the
American dream, that they never came. I had no way,
I had no way out. I was until he finally
told me that I was too old. There are many
pieces of my story that I can't remember no matter
(46:35):
how hard I try. The constant state of wonder causes
me so much fear and so much confusion. My therapist
is that my brain is just trying to protect this self,
But it's so hard to begin to heal knowing that
there are people out there who know more about my
abuse than I do. The worst part is that the
(46:57):
government is still in possession right now of the documents
and information about that could help me remember and get
over all of this, maybe and help me heal. They
have documents with my name on them that were confiscated
(47:20):
from Jeffrey Epstein's house and could help me put the
pieces of my own life back together. But I don't
have any of it, and I know the same is
true for many of these women.
Speaker 27 (47:31):
My name is Annie Farmer, and I was sixteen years
old when I was blown to New Mexico to spend
a weekend with Epstein and Maxwell. That same year, nineteen
ninety six, my sister Maria Farmer reported what happened to
me there, along with reporting her own assaults at their
hands and their theft of sensitive photos of herself, of
(47:53):
me and our younger sister that she had taken for
her work as a figuritive painter. I am now forty
six years old. Thirty years later, we still do not
know why that report wasn't properly investigated, or why Epstein
and his associates were allowed to harm hundreds, if not thousands,
of other girls and young women. We have never been
(48:14):
told whether those images were found when they discovered a
large amount of child sexual abuse material on his property.
Speaker 28 (48:20):
And when I got into the massage room, Jeffrey Epstein
undressed and asked me to do things to him. My
eyes welled up with tears, and I have never been
more scared in my life. When it was over, he
paid me two hundred dollars and requested in exchange that
(48:41):
I bring a girl each time to make another two
hundred dollars. I told him I did not want to
do that, and then he gave me an ultimatum. I
felt in hope to never hear from him again, but
he called me every day. He was so wealthy and powerful,
and he would not let me go. I felt I
had no choice If I disobeyed him, I knew so
thing God would happen.
Speaker 26 (49:01):
I would like to announce here today, us Epstein survivors
have been discussing creating our own list.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
We know the names many of us were.
Speaker 6 (49:11):
Abused by them.
Speaker 26 (49:13):
Now, together as survivors, we will confidentially compile the names
we all know who regularly and who are regularly in
the Epstein world. And it will be done by survivors
and for survivors. No one else is involved that.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
I'm at Rep. Thomas Massey on X.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
You are seeing the Survivors in DC in the last
Days demanding justice Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I want
to introduce you a very special guest, a Jeffrey Epstein survivor.
(49:58):
I hate to always say victim because Lisa Phillips has
gone on to become a warrior. Yes she's a mother
of three. Yes, she's a gorgeous former Ford Agency model. Yes,
she's been in a major motion picture, among many things.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
Any given Sunday, a lot of people have seen that
she's in it. She's beautiful, she's accomplished, she's articulate. She's
also a.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Jeffrey Epstein victim now survivor slash warrior.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
Lisa, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 6 (50:37):
Well, I just want to say thank you for that intro.
The survivors are here because we are fed up and
we are not victims. We do not like to be
called victims. We are survivors. We're taking our power back
because what happened to me on that island back in
two thousand should have never happened. I was brought by
(51:00):
another young girl, and that was the genius of Jeffrey
Epstein's sex trafficking ring as he got other girls and
young women to bring more.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
So when you flew, when you were flown to the island,
what did you think was going to happen?
Speaker 6 (51:17):
Lisa, Nancy. I took a boat to the island. I
was at Tortola, the island next door. What kind of
boat like a ferry boat.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
So somebody picked you up at a dock, you got on,
they took you over, and they dropped you off at
an appointed spot.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Is that correct?
Speaker 6 (51:32):
That's correct?
Speaker 1 (51:32):
That is exactly what the other victims say. Victims you
haven't even spoken to or or you don't know their names.
So amazing how your stories already are like a fingerprint story.
Speaker 3 (51:46):
They fit exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, you get to Epstein's island and what happens.
Speaker 6 (51:50):
We actually had a really good time on the island
for the first several hours, hanging out in the pool,
and you know, we had a wonderful dinner where I
met Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey is charming and he's very intelligent,
and he's locked in on you.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
You stated that you were told, hey, it's just a massage,
you have to do it.
Speaker 6 (52:11):
Who told you that the girl who brought me there.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
How in the hay did it get to You've got
to give him a massage?
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Just like that.
Speaker 6 (52:21):
It was so quick. It was a wonderful day, just
a normal day. And then right when it was time,
everything changed. Everything went dark. The whole island looked different.
The walk to his bedroom, the anticipation and the anxiousness
of like, what the frick is going on here? And
I'm looking at her and I could see she has
a little fear in her eyes. You know, something was
(52:43):
wrong with her because she didn't want to do it,
you know, but it's just something. She took a deep
breath and she's like, we have to do it, And
so I just went with her because I didn't feel
like I had a choice. I was literally trapped on
an island at that point. There was nowhere to run,
and I was scared to death of saying no, I'm
not going to do it. I didn't have it in me,
and be like no way, you know, I just couldn't
(53:03):
do it. I just froze and just went with her.
And then what happened, Like the genius of Jeffrey Epstein,
it was a real massage, It really was. It was playful,
and he was funny, and he was now asking personal,
flirty questions, and you know, he tries to make it
(53:24):
seem like it's no big deal. You know, that's how
he is until then he turns. There's a little darkness.
There's a little there's a lot of darkness in Jeffrey Epstein.
So he has this mask if I'm your mentor, I'm
going to help you out, I'm this great, caring, wonderful person.
Look at all my rich, powerful friends. Like he has
a six steer that pulls, you know, young women in
(53:46):
because he makes them feel really safe, and he makes
you feel seen and heard, that's for sure. But then
there's a darkness that which is when he just wants
to get what he wants, and so he loves massages.
He does that is his baseline is massage. But then
it always switches into some type of a little bit
of torture, you know, if he wants to hurt you
(54:08):
a little bit with his with his hands and with objects,
and with the fact that he can control the two
young women in the room. So it was it was scary.
Speaker 4 (54:21):
It was just.
Speaker 6 (54:24):
I just I'm traumatized every time I think about it,
and I know you have to ask these questions, but
it was just the worst night of my life.
Speaker 3 (54:31):
Lisa. Did he to you?
Speaker 6 (54:34):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (54:40):
And then you said the secretary would then call you
non stop to get you to bring other girls women
to the island.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
I'm getting ahead of myself after he.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
I'm sorry. You know I'm asking you this, Lisa, because
people don't think it happened, because no one is doing anything.
Because Glaine Maxwell is on the verge of walking free.
I'm not letting it go because there are other clients
(55:27):
that statutory girls and that forced young women into unwanted sex.
That's and nothing is being done.
Speaker 3 (55:38):
And I don't get it. I don't get why we're
being lied to.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
And I see you sitting there crying, and it's like
pouring gas on a fire to me to think nothing
has been done.
Speaker 3 (55:57):
Nothing. I also don't believe it can suicide. This totallys Yes,
what is your message tonight, Lisa.
Speaker 6 (56:08):
It is not your fault. It took me a long
time to get there. And sometimes it's just seeing other survivors.
Sometimes you just need to connect with other survivors, whether
it's Epstein or any other serial predator, or anyone who
can listen to you. You need support and you need
to find the community, and you're not alone. You are
(56:32):
not alone to all.
Speaker 1 (56:35):
The survivors out there. Right now we are speaking with
Lisa Phillips who survived Epstein. Please stay strong and keep
the faith. Lisa, thank you for being with us, and
thank you for being brave for other crime victims to
(56:59):
see you and hear you and understand what you've been through,
what you will always be going through because of Jeffrey
Epstein and Gallaine Maxwell.
Speaker 3 (57:08):
But yet you are still fighting the fight.
Speaker 1 (57:13):
And now we remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Jacob
Picket Boone County Sheriffs, Indiana, thirty four, shot and killed
in the line of duty, survived by wife turned widow,
Jennifer Sons Lincoln and Wade. American hero Deputy Sheriff Jacob Pickett.
(57:34):
Nancy Grace signing off, good night friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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