October 4, 2017 • 50 mins
Amanda Knox declared in a tweet this week: "6 Years Free!" It was on October 3, 2011, that an Italian court overturned the Seatlle woman's murder conviction in the death of her roommate Meredith Kercher. Knox is now 30 and living in Seattle. Nancy Grace revisits the controversial case in this episode with attorney Anne Bremner, a spokesman for the Knox family, and Seattle reporter Linda Byron, who closely covered Amanda's story since the beginning.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account,
drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes.
Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence,
interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting
new investigative series, The Disappearance of Mora Murray Saturday's seven
(00:23):
sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the new
network for crime Climb stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius
x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. In an ancient
Italian phil tone, the life of a young foreign exchange
(00:44):
student ends and fighters, and the life of another is
forever linked to the crime. Amanda Knox would be convicted.
I was afraid of Blaine Stane. She contemplated suicide. If
I'm in a dye in prison, no matter what, do
I want that to be the one thing that I
have that's on my terms. Samanda is free. Amanda's name
is finally keyed or is it the dud student is
(01:05):
on trial again. I did not believe that I would
be going to say, did you kill Meredith? Now? I
did not kill Meredith. I wish that question didn't have
to be asked. A twenty one year old British student,
(01:26):
Meredith Kircher found brutally murdered in her apartment. What went wrong?
Still so many unsettling questions. It's all about Amanda Knox,
the U S student who was studying abroad who was
roped into a murder charge. Many people still believing that
(01:50):
Amanda Knox took part in some way in the murder
of her roommate, Meredith Kircher. She says, no way. I mean,
it's grace, this is crying stories. Thank you for being
with us. What is the truth? Joining me and Bremner,
high profile lawyer out of Seattle that has had many,
many dealings with Amanda Knox's family, Also with me from
(02:14):
k I n G t V investigative reporter Linda Byron
who interviewed Amanda Knox. Also from l A. Dr Bethany
Marshall's psycho analyst, and of course Alan Duke, the Duke
joining me out of l A. It is the case
that never really seemed to be put to rest. Why
Why does so many people still believe Amanda Knox brutally
(02:39):
murdered her young roommate, Meredith Kircher, Let's go through the
facts as we know them about the scene of the
crime and the timeline of when Meredith was murdered. A
lot of people don't even know Meredith Kircher's name, but
they do know Amanda Knox his name. Let's start at
the beginning. Linda Byron k I n G TV. Tell
(03:02):
me about the day, the evening that Meredith Kircher was Well,
we know that Meredith Kircher had gone to a Halloween party. Um,
we know that Amanda and Rafaeli said that they were
in their apartment that night, uh, and that they were
hanging out. She was supposed to work and got a
text that she didn't need to work, so they decided
(03:25):
they were going to spend the evening. Hold On, hold on,
We're talking about the U S student Amanda Knox and
her boyfriend Rafael Salcito. They were there in the apartment
that Amanda shared with Meredith. Is that right? So they
were in his apartment. I mean, this is the hardest apartment. Correct.
I thought you said her apartment. Okay. Amanda and RAFAELI
(03:46):
said that they spent the evening in his apartment and
that they didn't really go out. They watched a movie
on the computer. In, they made dinner. She was supposed
to work and she did not have to go in.
She got a text from her boss. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, I thought she told cops they smoked
wade and she had sex. Yes, she did, so let
me back up. So Amanda was supposed to go to
(04:08):
work at the bar that she worked at UM with
Patrick Lamuba. She got a text saying it's slow. You
don't have to come in. She texted back, okay, see
you later. She was excited. She told Rafaeli Solecha to
her boyfriend, I don't have to go to work, they said,
except the evening in his apartment UM, they smoked some marijuana,
(04:29):
they had sex, they had dinner, they watched a movie,
and the next day she goes back to her apartment
that she shared with the British roommates and an Italian woman.
You say, the British woman, you're talking about Meredith Kircher,
the twenty one year old. That's right, that's right, yes,
so Meredith Kircher. Meredith Kircher had gone to a Halloween party,
(04:50):
had come home and was alone. Amanda Knox came in
after spending the evening with her boyfriend, and she took
a shower. She noticed some blood in the bathroom. She
did not, um, immediately think that something terrible was wrong,
she said. She told me that she saw this blood,
but it was a little bit. She thought someone might
(05:12):
have cut themselves. Um. And she went back to Raffaelis
and they had a discussion, and she told him she
thought things were strange. UM. Okay, wait a minute. So
she sees blood and didn't she try Merediths room and
the door was locked from the inside. That happened after
she came back with Raffaeli Selecito, she left, they came back,
(05:34):
they tried the door, the door was locked. I think
that's when they really truly became suspicious. Now I'm basing this,
of course, on all of what I heard in the
courtroom and the court transcripts. And so she sees blood
and the door to meredith room is locked on the inside,
and I believe they called Meredith, or she calls Meredith
(05:55):
and she won't answer her cell phone, which is highly unusual. Yes,
because Mary, So we're talking about blood in the bathroom.
How much blood was in the bathroom? Not a large amount, um,
small amount in the sink. There was a small on
the on the rug and so yes, most people would say, wow,
that's really suspicious. Now, she hadn't tried meredith story yet.
(06:17):
She left, went back to Rafaelis. They came back, they
tried the door, and about that time, the postal police
were showing up. And the postal police showed up because
Meredith's cell phones had been found and they're the ones
who investigate. Her phones had been tossed aside um in
kind of a wooded area not far from the apartment.
(06:38):
That's when they come in, stick the door down, and
Meredith Mereth is under a dube cover and it's a
bloody mess in the room and it's obvious that, you know,
a terrible murder has occurred. Wow, were there any other
signs outside of Meredith's room beside uh bare amount of
(06:59):
blood in the bathroom that Amanda Knox saw. Was there
anything else askew or a miss? The front door was
askew when Amanda came home, which should have raised suspicion,
but that doors sometimes apparently didn't shut well. That door
was askew, and there was also some feces in the
toilet and that seemed odd because the girls were pretty
(07:22):
good about making sure that they would flush the toilet.
So later put together, all of those things certainly look suspicious.
Um once that door was kicked in, it was obvious
that Meredith had been murdered. Her foot was sticking out
from under the dubet, and the police investigation, of course
begins at that point and Bremner joining me, high profile
(07:43):
lawyer out of Seattle and lawyer for friends of Amanda Knox,
and thank you so much for being with us, along
with Linda and Dr Bethany Marshall. You know, this is
one of the many reasons that people to this day
believe Amanda Knox was somehow involved in meredith murder. Uh
Number one. She and the boyfriend, Rafaela Selcito couldn't seem
(08:08):
to get their stories straight at the beginning. Their stories
differed over and over and over. The coming home to
find the blood, the cell phone, not answering the door lock,
the front door askew, and not calling police. That disturbed people.
The day after her roommate is raped and brutally brutally
(08:33):
stab dead, she is seen on close circuit TV, you know,
video surveillance in the store I think it was called bubbles,
laughing and snuggling and kissing, Solcto buying lingeriate by underwear.
And at the police station she was laughing and joking,
(08:54):
I believe with the boyfriend at the police station. This
is after her roommate has been murdered. And then of course,
and there's the it has been repeated over and over
where she tells police that she recalls hearing Meredith screaming
for her life, but she just put her hands over
(09:18):
her ears. You know, it brings back Amber Emner and
you and I lived through this together. When O. J.
Simpson said he had a dream that he killed Nicole.
You know, I've never dreamed that I killed anybody yet anyway, um,
but I'm not saying it couldn't happen. But I've never
dreamed that. I never thought of sat amound and thought
of the perfect way to die, unless I'm writing a
murder mystery. But she definitely said that she dreamed, or
(09:42):
she recalls she couldn't make sure if she was in
a feuge state or she was having a dream that
she recalls hearing Meredith screaming for her life in the
next room, and she just put her hands over her ears. See,
a lot of people have a problem with that. Anne.
That was, of course an interrogation in a different language.
She didn't speak Italian back down, although she testified Italian
far far later, white what white, white white? She lived
(10:04):
in Italy and she did speak Italian, and she texted
an Italian. She worked in an Italian bar well, so
she did speak to go from Rooti mentary Italian to
you know, basically talking about an alleged homicide of her
at the primary suspect. But and you know how much
I respect to you is you know, you're a very
renowned legal expert. But ann plase please, But I'm not
(10:29):
saying I'm jumping on the bandwagon. But you can't live
in Italy with an Italian boyfriend and worked in a
bar and you've been living there for a period of
time and say you don't know Italian. The one time
you tell police, yeah I heard my roommate screaming for
her life and I put my hands over my ears.
That's the one time you don't know what you're saying, Nancy.
She knew her boyfriend for a week. I just spent
time with him at a confidence in Europe. But the
(10:50):
thing is basically she was she was she a week,
but she she had said they said, imagine, imagine if
you were there, what would you have done? Then she says,
if I was like a theoretical I would have covered
my ears with screams. The second part of it is
she was interrogated for a long period of time. In fact,
part of it was thrown out because she didn't have
a lawyer and she didn't have a certified interpreter, you know.
(11:11):
And then also she said struck her during the interrogation,
and then she's maintained that all along. So that and
all the other issues raised about making faces, you know,
are acting quirky, that's not probably caused to believe someone
committed a homicide. And finally on the lingerie, her house
was a crime scene. She wasn't buying the lingerie like
the tabloid said, she was just getting items. And finally,
(11:34):
whatever you want to say, didn't have right. Okay, you
can call it whatever you want to call it, but
it doesn't implicate her in a a homicide. I'll say. So
she had to go out to Victoria's secrets and my
enderwear it was bubbles. It was bubble, okay, But the
thing is Nancy. She also, I'm just going to call
that probably cause, and the U they called that probably cause.
(11:55):
But when they were kissing in front of the house,
the next frange shows them looking to sponded Craft and
and Amanda. So you know, all the things that are
tiktof saying the shows them lists saying that she did
this are also completely consistent with and Linda Byron was
jumping in, jumping in Linda. If you look at the
if you look at the yeah, I want to jump
in on this um this statement you made that she
(12:18):
says that she was in the apartment when she heard
her remate screaming for her life, etcetera. Because what really
happened there was after hours and hours and hours of
this interrogation, she signed a confession at one at one
forty five in the morning and then another one at
five forty five in the morning. But to call them
confessions is really not very accurate if you look at
(12:38):
what she said, especially at forty five. By the way,
this was thrown out by the Supreme Court as being
a coerce statement. She said, I do not remember anything.
I am very confused. I do not remember if Meredith
was screaming. At a certain point, I heard Meredith screaming.
I plugged my ears. I imagined, I imagined what could
have happened. That's why you say that again, Linda, Linda Byron,
(13:02):
who has had an in depth interview with Amanda Knox,
could you repeat that again for me exactly what she said?
This is. This is the statement from five in the morning,
after she has been deprived of food and water, after
she's been screamed at by people who come one after
another into the room, and after she says she was
told imagine what would have what might have happened? What
(13:24):
could have happened? She says, I cannot remember. Repeatedly through
this statement, she says, at a certain point, I heard
Meredith screaming, and as I was scared, I plugged up
my ears. I am very confused. I do not remember
if Meredith is screaming and if I heard thuds because
I was upset, I imagined what could have happened. That
to me is not a decisive That is not a
(13:46):
decisive confession. Well, okay, first of all, you said confession.
I said statement. And here is Linda Byron as she
is interviewing Amanda Knox, listen. Meredith's family is still mourning
her death, and to this day believe Amanda was involved.
We asked her about that did you kill Meredith? I
(14:10):
did not kill Meredith. I wish that question didn't have
to be asked. In her recently published memoir, she looks
even younger than I remember her, Knox wrote that she
felt close to Meredith the first night I went there.
She took me out to pizza with all of her friends.
She was very kind and very smart, and she didn't
(14:32):
quite know yet what she wanted to do with her life.
They confided in each other. She said she either wanted
to be a journalist like her dad, or she wanted
to maybe go into like international relations. She was still
figuring herself out, and in the same way, I felt
the same way, like I was there also to figure
myself out. I thought, Oh, I'll be an interpreter and
I'll be a world traveler and it'll be awesome. Those
(14:56):
dreams were crushed when Meredith was murdered and Amanda named
as her killer. I was arrested before I was even
able to really come to terms with the fact that
she was dead. My lawyer showed me her autopsy photos
in prison in preparation for what I was going to
have to go through in court. I I was devastated,
(15:24):
and I was unprepared even then, months and months and
months after my even imprisonment, after all of those times
where they talk about knives and they talk about lovers,
and they talk about Rudy good day and they and
they're talking about all of it, and this case is happening,
and yet you still are not even coming to terms
of it. Then, I actually had a friend who was murdered,
(15:45):
and I've had to defend myself against allegations of being
responsible for that instead of being able to come to
terms with that and to grieve and to find closure.
And I think about her most of all um when
I think about her family. I've never really had the
(16:06):
chance to ever meet her family, and the conditions of
their coming into contact with me ever were always through
the courtroom. I want to see Meredith's grave. I want
to be there, and I want to actually be able
to say goodbye to her. To psychoanalyst Dr Bethany Marshall
(16:30):
for her to say, I think this is what causes
a lot of people to still believe Amanda Knox was
in the apartment when her roommate was murdered. Um it
because to say I can't remember. And then I heard
Meredith screaming. I'm confused. I'm confused. I imagine what could
(16:55):
have happened in there. She's not saying I imagined or
I dreamed I heard her scream She said, I heard
Meredith screaming. Well, but wasn't this an Italian So that's
a very nuanced communication. I imagined I heard her screaming
rather than I heard her screaming. Or imagine what it
(17:15):
would have been like if she was screaming if she
did not speak fluent Italian. She said, no, I just
had Linda Byron say twice in a row. She said,
I'm confused. I'm confused. I heard Meredith screaming. I imagine
(17:35):
what was happening. Well, if she was in her boyfriend's apartment,
which was a five minute walk away, she could not
have heard her screaming. If she was in the house,
obviously she would have heard her screaming. My understanding is
that she was in the boyfriend's house, spent the night.
They smoked a joint, she had sex, they watched a movie.
She walked home the next morning, she gives a conflicting
(17:58):
statement to the police. But what I know is that
when somebody has experienced a horrible trauma, and I think
witnessing a scene like this would qualify as a trauma,
they can say things that are conflicting. I do believe
that can happen. You know that's interesting, Bethany, because um,
I've never heard anybody that sees a murder saying suddenly
(18:22):
say I heard them screaming. I've never seen that happen.
If you come upon a murder sing and then go
out and buy lingerate now to see that, I'm like you,
I don't know what happened, but I can tell you
that those facts are very troubling. And am Bremner, who's
not just a friend, who is a colleague, has worked
(18:42):
with Amanda's family and his lawyer related to a meant
friend of Amanda an Ox, And that's why I have
her here today. And I mean, I think that looks bad.
Now I know the status of the case. The Italian
High Court has exonerated her. Yes, but I'm telling you
those facts are very troubling. Anne. Nobody can say those
(19:04):
facts are not troubling. You know. The fact is they
asked her to imagine what happened, and that's why she
said she imagined it. This was after brow beating her
in a foreign language we've already talked about and without
an interpreter, and of course this is thrown out. She
also recanted what she had to say. Are you saying
they browbeat her because they didn't give her anything to eat?
I mean, it's one o'clock in the morning, why would they.
(19:24):
Let's get down to what this case was really about
me and seeing that was there were no forensics. They
had two lotems they said that they connected her to
the crime. Those are found to be inadmissible, compromise and
contaminated by independent experts appointed by a judge. The highest
court in Italy. Didn't just say she was not guilty.
They said she was exonerated, that this was a travesty,
that she'd been through this. So we can go back
and we can look at what she said when they
(19:45):
asked her to imagine, you know, what would have happened
had she been there? And she complies and she says
that and she says she's confused. You know, it's a
whole lot of nothing in this case, but it's a
whole lot of what led her to serve four years
in prison for a crime she didn't commit. And that's
the bottom line. And land course confessions there, we know
they happen all over the place. I want to pause
very quickly and thank our partner as we continue to
(20:07):
argue about Amanda Knox again, the Italian High Court has
exonerated her and she's here in the US. In fact,
she just signed a three point eight million dollar book deal.
She is here. I want to thank our partner, and
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(21:35):
me high profile Seattle lawyer and Bremner Linda Byron investigative reporter,
Bethanie Marshall, excuse me, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalist joining me
out of l A. And Alan Duke the Duke joining
me out of l A as well. Take a listen
to what the Italian prosecutor says. The principal evidence was
(21:59):
mixed UG traces from which were extracted mixed DNA of
a mandan meritidista. The only explanation for that mix is
that Amanda was bleeding and touched objects that were covered
in meredis blood. Jet didn't there's no other explanation. To
Linda Byron, investigative reporter, Linda, you disagree. You have had
(22:23):
a chance to meet an interview in debt with Amanda Ox.
You disagree with A prosecutor explained to me your position.
What I can tell you from covering these trials and
sitting in the courtroom and listening to the prosecution and
the defenses, that the prosecution had no solid evidence of
any ever presented. And here's one of the things that
really bothered me, the evolving motive. Initially the prosecutors saying
(22:48):
that this was some kind of satanic right because um
Raffaeli Selecito had been interested in these kind of dark
comics in which vampires are hunted and killed and their
female vampires and the Meredith had dressed for the Halloween
party that night. Uh later the motive evolves again. Now
(23:09):
at the drug field sex game. No evidence put forward
for that, either when that was shown or when that
was countered so strongly enough the pause, white a minute,
White a minute. I need to understand something. Was Meredith
Kircher closed, unclosed or partially closed when her body was
found she was partially closed. Okay, so she's partially closed.
(23:30):
She had been raped and she was covered in blood.
I could kind of see where prosecutors got the idea
some sort of sex attack that happened did happen because
somebody was convicted of rape and murder, and that would
be the guy from the I an attack, but but
a sex game, a sex game that Meredith refused to
protect that. The theory was this, that Amanda and her
(23:54):
boyfriend wanted to do something fun and different and exciting
and extreme, and they decided that they were to have
this sexual tryst with Meredith Kercher, and when Meredith refused
to participate, they slid her through out and killed her.
This isn't what you're talking about. Is a motive we
see all the time from her, and that is rapes
often leads to murder because they want to cover up
(24:16):
the crime. The prosecutor called this a drug field sex game.
Then when that was countered in court, it became that
theory sort of drifted away, and it became Meredith was
such a wonderful, sweet, innocent girl that Amanda hated her
and this was about This is about hate, and Amanda
had bad bathroom habits and she was tired of her
(24:37):
roommates bothering her about those kinds of things. And then
it was about money. No, maybe Amanda's killed Meredith for money.
This is what bothered me is the prosecution did not
find a motive stick with the motive. It was an
evolving motive every time something didn't fit. In fact, at
one point the knife they had the knife, the murder knife,
allegedly didn't fit the stablemnce, so the prosecutor or said
(25:00):
there were two knives. That is not the way I
have seen good solid trials produce evidence that lead to conviction. Well,
I can say this, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, that motives evolve.
So the fact that the prosecution I mean the Satanic
cult things sounds kind of outlandish to me. I don't
(25:20):
believe I would have mentioned that, but I mean you
find out during an investigation, during a trial, you find
out evolving motives. Luckily, in the United States, you don't
have to show a motive to a jury. You have
to prove who did it and you know the date
essentially um the general date. You have to show jurisdiction,
and you have to show the murder and who did
(25:42):
it bam. We are not expected to crawl into the
mind of a killer and figure out what they were thinking,
but juries like to hear motives motives evolve. You may
think a case, a murder is because of one thing,
and then the more you investigate, you find out something else.
So a changing ODO doesn't concern me. What does concern
(26:02):
me is that another guy I believe was unrelated to
Amanda Knox, and that would be the Rudy Rudy Gooday
from the Ivory Coast who was found guilty give sex
assault and murder of Meredith Kircher. Now does that and
it was his DNA all over the room and all
(26:23):
over the That is a concern to me. That is
a hard fact to me. That suggests Amanda Knox is
not guilty. But I still have her claiming I put
my hands over my ears. I heard her screaming in
the next room. That makes me think that she was
there at the time. Okay, that that's where I'm coming from.
(26:43):
I've never ever thought Amanda Knox took a knife and
stab Meredith Kircher. But because of her own statements, I
can't get away from the fact that she says she
heard here's her screaming. Now, can that be explained to weight? Maybe?
But this guy has been found guilty. His his sentence
has been reduced to just sixteen years for rape and murder.
(27:06):
I met Marenath Krocher's family is turning cartwheels right now,
Bethany Marshall, Right, sixteen years can you imagine it? And
and his DNA was its at the scene, and uh,
Amanda Knox and her boyfriend's DNA was not there, and
you know, from a scientific perspective, you can't. They couldn't
go in and clean up their own DNA and just
(27:27):
leave his DNA there, right, So obviously they weren't in
the room. But in terms of all these stories that
were being told, the sex uh story was the one
that stuck. That's the one I remember at the time.
The idea that Amanda and her boyfriend were trying to
ramp up their sexual experience, so they wanted to turn
Meredith into a sex slave, and then she resisted, so
(27:49):
they had to slid her throat. That was the story
that everyone was fascinated by. Um. I think that some
of the boyfriends uh Slocito's dn A was found on
Meredith ross strap, but that was forty six days later,
so that was an interesting twist too. I agree with you, Nancy, whoa,
whoa what what? What about her brass trap? Well, Meredith
(28:11):
Kercher's boss. I remember at the time, and I was
just reading about this this morning, that Amanda Knox's boyfriend,
her new boyfriend, Salacito, is that how you pronounce his name?
That the boyfriend's DNA was found on meredith brass strap,
on a clasp, on a bros strap. But this was
forty six days after the crime, and this was quite
(28:34):
incriminating as well. But that was that is that that
was Linda Byron. Was her DNA found on Kercher's brass trap.
There was a trace amount of DNA that that was
attributed to Rafaeli's selective What the scientific experts from Rome
said when they were brought in at the second trial
(28:56):
to analyze all of this evidence, they said that that
was on was certainly from contamination. If you look at
the video of the crime scene, if you look at
the criminal as they're going through and they're processing the
crime scene, forty six days after they've been in and
out of that room over and over and in and
out of the house, they picked up this little piece
of a broad clasp and they handed all around, They
(29:17):
passed it all around and they're all looking at it.
This was found to be terribly sloppy. Do you know that, Linda,
Do you know it was handed around? You can see
it on the video and it was brought up in
court though the video. It was brought up in court. Yes,
that you see it being handed around. That that's that's
The second appellate court stated that the victim, the murder victim,
(29:39):
Meredith Kircher's broad class that had been cut from her
body had Solicito's d n A on the tiny metal
clasp of the bra. This is Amanda Knox's then boyfriend.
The biological d n A on the broad class that
(29:59):
Meredith Kircher was wearing belonged to Rafaelli Solicy too. If
he had been in that room, if he had been
handling her clothing, if he had ripped that brock left
from her body, his DNA would have been all over
the room. This is what bothered me when I covered
this trial, was I kept looking for what we normally
(30:20):
see in these kinds of cases, which is DNA evidance.
And if he had been inside that room and there
had been this struggle for this drug field sex game,
the prosecutor claimed that um Amanda Knox is the one
that slid her throat that she was being held back
by Rafaeli Selecci too, and that Rudy good Day was
sexually assaulting her. All of them should have had DNA
(30:43):
all over that room. The only DNA was found was
Rudy good Day, and it was found in the vaginal swab.
It was found in the camphort and on the pillow.
It was found on the blood on the sweatshirt warmed
by the victim, and his previous behavior was highly suspicious
of being one to enter apartments to rob equipped with knives.
All of this is in Judge Hellman's report. Judge Hellman
was the judge's second trial that exonerated Amandana. To me,
(31:06):
that is a more simple and more obvious scenario as well,
because I'm still looking for the connection. I mean to
me her Amanda Knox's words are damning, but I don't
I still don't have a connection between Amanda Knox, boyfriend Soelcito,
and Rudy Gooday, the guy from the Ivory Coast whose
(31:28):
DNA was at the scene. Did they work together, did
they know each other before? Any connection at all? If
I can connect the three of them, then that would
be a leg to stand on. But were they connected, Linda,
was anybody connected to Rudy Gooday. Rudy good Day had
been known to play basketball in the basketball court near
(31:50):
where the girls lived in this apartment in the house
and below their floor. So this was a this was
a two story kind of almost like a duplex type
thing where a number of young men lived there. Ruddy
Gooday was known to have come to their apartment, to
their part of the home and spend time with them.
So he has a very peripheral connection to that house.
(32:13):
What you're saying, good Day spent time with who the
boys that lived beneath the girls. This is a house
that has two stories, and like many many houses in Italy,
and also here, you may run out one floor to
one group of roommates and you may run out another
floor to another group of roommates. So below below the
four rooms where these you know these um college where
(32:36):
e Meredith and Amanda and the two other women lived,
there was an apartment that was occupied by some young
men who were known to have an acquaintance with Ruddy Goodet. Gotcha,
But there was no common there's no common entrance between
the two places. And with me is Seattle lawyer and Bremner,
who is related to friends of Amanda Knox that group.
(32:57):
And was there any connection between who we know is
there because of DNA and her vagina and that would
be Rudy good Day. Is there any connection between him
and the boyfriend raphael A Selasita. No, And you know
he also confessed on skype Rooty good Day and he fled,
(33:18):
and we know that evidence of flight is evidence of guilt.
Nancy and Linda also enumerated the other things that indicate
his guilt. He's all over that room. And he had
a fast tracked trial. That's just like a slow guilty
play in the United States. He was tried together with
the other defendants in their pre trial hearing on problem
because that's why he got a better sentence. Better man,
you're not kidding sixty. He can already leave Jill. I
(33:40):
think for work for a lows. I mean, really, guys,
take a listen to more of what that prosecutor said.
The the erotic game was always part of the case.
I think that night Amanda wanted to make Meredith pay
for judging her, but she found offensive rough. I'm all
(34:07):
for looking at the hard evidence. And again I said,
I couldn't get away from Amanda Knox, stating that she
could hear Merrideth screaming and put her hands over her ears,
which means she had to be in the home at
the time. All right, now, how can I reconcile that
with this crazy scheme, that this motive which they didn't
need anyway, but they blurted it out, that Amanda Knox
(34:31):
murdered Meryth Kircher because Meredith Kircher judged her lifestyle. That
doesn't make sense to me. What I would need to
really believe this to believe the prosecution's case. What I
would really need is a connection between Amanda Knox or
her boyfriend, her lover Rafaeli Solcy too with the rapist,
(34:52):
and that would be Rudy Gooday. I know he did
it because his DNA is on and in her body
and all over the room. I think that prosecutor has
had reason to believe Amanda and her boyfriend may have
been involved, But I don't see a connection right now
to the day that will hold up in court. What
(35:12):
is happening now with Amanda Knox. I know that she
was the focus a very popular documentary. I know that
she says or her supporters have said she's returning to
Italy to rid herself of the trauma of the false
and president, and that Meredith Kircher's family says, please don't please.
(35:33):
You're the only one that has profited of Meredith brutal murder,
our daughter, our our sister. Please don't come back. Just
you know, deal with your trauma in your own way,
that's what they're saying. I don't know why they would
say that if they believe she was innocent. I also
know she just did almost a four million dollar book deal.
So where does she's Where does her life stand today?
(35:55):
A Bremner, Yeah, she's doing well. She's she's very low
key in some time with her, even at her house,
and she seems to have her feet on the ground.
I just think it's, you know, one step at a time. Um.
She doesn't seek out the limelight. But people don't bug
her in the press here in writing said they wouldn't
bother when she has not to be contacted, So I
(36:16):
think that's good. But she's um, she's got forecasts orange cats. Um, Yeah,
she forecasts um. And she did go to Europe. She
didn't go to Italy, but she did go to Europe
recently with her boyfriend, and he's a great guy. I
worked with his mom in the court system. So I
think that those are all good things. You know that
she seems to be settling down in a good way.
(36:36):
What happened to the charge that she blinded an innocent
person another person, well that that was that was still
out there. Linda can talk more about that because I
wasn't in court for that part of it. But Amanda
had a book deal years ago, Nancy, and that money
has gone to pay for lawyers. I mean, she had
lawyers for you know, nearly a decade, including here in
the United States, because there's a potential extradition. She um,
(36:58):
there's a Netflix piece that she participated in but she
was not compensated for. And then also, you know, she's
been very active and innocence projects around the country. You know,
I've attended a number of those with her. You know,
she's settled down with a great guy. His name is
Chris Robinson. He's a writer. He was from Hunter College,
he was a professor there. She writes for the West
Seattle Harold. They supported her. She has a life and
(37:19):
arts column, and she's trying to live a normal life.
You know, she seems you know, of course anyone would
have PTSD from this. Anybody would be completely traumatized from
being internationally vilified, you know, for such a long time.
But she's back in Seattle and she's living a quiet life.
You know. I just can't get my mind around Linda
Byron uh investigative reporter. They collimed this girl was in
(37:42):
some sex game that went wrong and so she ended
up murdering her roommate. I mean, a lot of room
mates don't get along. I get it, but that is crazy.
That's crazy. I mean, if the prosecution had hoped for
a conviction that was a that shooting yourself in the foot,
throwing that out, that's a motive that they just didn't
I the jury just did not buy that motive. And
it was and there was very little presented in court
(38:04):
that would indicate that they had a bed. Well wait
a minute, somebody got somebody bought it, because somebody bought
it somewhere the first time that is true. She she
she was and then she was exonerated, and then that
was thrown out, and then she was essentially reconvicted by
the Florence court. But in the end, if you read
through all of the documents of all of the courts,
(38:25):
including the Supreme Court, uh that motive was dismissed as
being unsupported. The Italians sue Italians, you know, I want
to I want to ask you, though you said that
that Amanda Knox has profited from this, and my understanding
I said that Meredith Kercher's family said Amanda Knox is
(38:46):
the only one that has profited from meredith murder, which
they did, Okay, point taken in terms of profit, though,
I do want to point out what Ann said, and
that is that the money went, as far as I
understand it, to pay for her lawyers and to satisfy
the mortgages that her parents and her grandmother took out
on their homes to pay for her legal bills, and
(39:10):
to be in Italy because the family always make sure
someone was there to visit her in prison once a
week when she got a prison visit, So they rented
an apartment. This was a highly expensive defense for them.
I think they threw everything they could at it. And
who wouldn't do that as a parent, to have you know,
your child in a foreign prison for a crime that
you do not believe she committed. Um, and I think
(39:34):
we do have to look at in the end, the
Italian Supreme Court did not just say innocent in that
she excuse me, they didn't just say not guilty. In
other words, there's a distinction in Italy between you did
not prove the crime was committed and exoneration innocence. They
said she was exonerated completely. And I think we have
(39:54):
to have some faith in in the Italian justice systems
ultimate processing of this crime. And even heard his trial,
even though it's with years and years and years, certainly
didn't feel about the way we would, you know, expect
to see it. But in all that time and all
those trials and all that testimony, I never heard or
saw a single piece of solid, convincing evidence that showed
(40:16):
Amanda knoxes in that room or committed that crime. Well,
I have absolutely no faith in the Italian court system
because and I'm not saying they got it wrong, because
I never saw the connection between the boyfriend solicito and
Amanda Knox and the rapist who I mean, you can't
(40:36):
tell me he raped her and then somebody else just
happened to walk in within the next hour and murder her. Okay,
he murdered her and I can't see a connection between
the three of them. But I don't have any faith
in the Italian system. And I'll tell you why, because
she's tried, she's convicted, but it was held on appeal,
then it was reversed on appeal. And then what they
(40:58):
re tried her on appeal what they decided to re
look at the evidence with how do how do you
reconvict someone on appeal without another draw Nancy. They had
the first trial, of course, was a conviction in two
thousand and nine, I think it was, but they have
was called trial di novo really in Italy. So the
second trial was the second trial, slow it down, slow
it down. In Italy. There on appeal, it's called a
(41:21):
trial de novo, which is you know, means a new trial,
a trial anew. So they presented evidence on appeal and
that's where the experts were appointed on appeal in the
trial to novo by the judge, and that's where the
experts said that the evidence was compromised. Yes, yes, but
then after that was she there, yes, yes, but for
(41:44):
the trial, the trial for the preclusion, and this was
really triple jeopardy in my mind, she was exonerated or
she was acquitted in two thousand eleven, and then she
was tried again in abstentia and convicted, and then the court,
the Supreme Court, the highest court. Cecy said she was
completely exonerated, not just innocent, not just not guilty. Guys,
(42:07):
I heard you the first, you know, maybe ten times
you said exonerated. I get it. She was exonerated. And
I'm looking at all the sides, and I appreciate it
when other people try to have an open mind, okay,
and to pretend there is not evidence that appears to
be damning. That's disingenuous to me. So I'm looking at
(42:33):
all the evidence that I know, and there is evidence
that looks bad for her to me. But again, when
I look at the hard evidence, Bethany Marshall, I just
don't see that connection with the with the rapist. I don't.
I don't see. Well, I agree with you. The science
(42:54):
doesn't does not back up that Meredith. And I'm sorry
Amanda and her boyfriend were in the room with Meredith, right,
but the behavioral evidence does not look good at all.
The fact that she said I heard her screaming. You
kept asking me about that and I've been thinking about it,
and the only possibility I can think of was that
she didn't spend the night with her boyfriend, she went
(43:15):
back to her apartment, heard her roommate screaming, ignored it,
and then went back to her boyfriend's apartment. Again, the
only thing I can think of. And then the video
we've seen of her kissing her boyfriend the next morning,
the shopping for lingerie at Bubbles, it can only be,
you know, one of two things. One is that she
(43:35):
was experiencing something that we call reaction formation. That's when
you turn an underlying feeling into its opposite, so a
feeling of great shock. You know, I feel very close
to you. Okay, I think you're awesome. But when you
have to just start doing backflips to explain something away,
that doesn't work with me. All right now, I know
(43:57):
what it is like to have someone very dear to
be murdered and going out and buying lingerie the next morning,
to me, does not indicate that you're the least bit concerned.
And and Bremner again, I respect you. You're known all
over the world, But to tell me, well, her her
apartment was a crime scene, she had to what go
buy a thong. No, not buying that either. So I
(44:19):
don't know what it means. It may mean nothing, but
I do know this. Let me throw this to dry.
And again, none of that a murder makes period. The
fact that Meredith Kircher's family, according to delhimail dot com protests,
does not want her, Amanda Knox, to come back to
(44:40):
Italy and is They're very they're very firm about it,
and they continue to say she's the only one that
profited from Meredith death. Now Meredith murder, Now what does
that mean to you? Because in all the years I
prosecuted homicides, I can only kind of and ful of
(45:00):
times the victims family did not support the prosecution. Typically
it was when they were related, like you know, domestic
commicide and the children did not want their dad prosecuted.
That's a common example of the murder victims family not
supporting the prosecution. Here, the murder victims family does not
(45:21):
seem to support Amanda Knox. Why is that, you know, Nancy, Nancy,
One of the things that I keep thinking about is
that their daughter is dead and Amanda is alive. And
how painful is that for the family. And not only
is Amanda alive. But there's, as we're talking about, all
(45:41):
the behavioral evidence, she was kissing her boyfriend at the scene,
going and buying lingerie, so disrespectful towards Meredith, and whatever
the underlying psychological motivations for that Behaviorally, it was a
huge sign of disrespect. So I can see why the
family would not want more a reminders of this. And also,
(46:02):
you know, Amanda has profited, even though the proceeds may
have gone towards her legal defense. Four million dollars. That's
a lot of money for a book, and she now
has fame, she has notoriety, She's sort of situated for
the rest of her life, even even though she's had
this horrible trauma. I think every time this family sees Amanda,
(46:22):
they have to think about what would their own daughter's
life had been like if she was alive. I was
thinking during this show, how old would Meredith have been
at this point? I think Meredith would have been This
was ten years ago, right, this is the anniversary Meredith
was twenty one years old. She would have been thirty
one years old and living a full life. So how
can they want to see Amanda living a full life
(46:43):
when their own daughter was cut off from that possibility
and that potential. Okay, Bethany, that actually makes a lot
of sense to me because when see I can't say
nearly as well as you do, but when they say Amanda,
it's everything Meredith can never be and it reminds them
of that horrible time. Do they blame Amanda? Do they
(47:05):
still believe that she is involved and is guilty? Linda Byron,
I can only say what I've what I've read, and
what I've seen reported, and that is that they have
always had at least some suspicion that Amanda was involved.
I mean, I think they relied on the prosecutors and
(47:26):
trusted the prosecutors to tell them that this is what happened,
and we have the evidence to back it up. But
no matter how, I know that they were quote better
with the night and if they did not think that
she was involved, and why were they better? I think
that that's troubling, is very troubling, and that Amanda either
(47:50):
killed their daughter or was involved. And you know, you
have to think about do they really want the celebrity
and all of this is Amanda Knox. Do they really
want her to come back to Italy or to visit
Perugia where the murder occur, because all of the the
hights and all of the hoop law and all of
it is going to start all over again. I mean
people they have not forgotten about. Well, this is what
(48:12):
they have said. It's it's been years, it's now since
Meredith was murdered there in Italy. The family and I
am quoting from the Independent, the family is in shock
after the verdict. They don't wish to make any other declarations.
I've had to explain to them there are no now,
no avenues open to them. There is a great sense
(48:34):
of bitterness. They are, the reporter says. The Kircher's, who
had previously spoken of their confidence in the Italian justice system,
have made it clear they believe Miss Knox and Mr
sols Too were involved in the killing, along with Rudy Gooday,
who has already been jailed for murder. Now there's no
(48:55):
getting around it. Tell Italy Supreme Court of Cassassion has
clear heard Miss Knox and Mr Solacito. Um, what does
it mean? They say that there were changing alibis by
Amanda Knox. They're convinced they're guilty, but they claimed that
(49:17):
Good Day could never have acted alone. I think when
you have a man and a woman alone an apartment,
that he can't overcome her, assault her and murder her,
because I've seen it happen so many many times. There
will always be those people that still believe Amanda Knox
is guilty. But the Italian court has ruled and exonerated her.
(49:41):
But the mystery goes on and Bremner, Linda Byron, Bethany Marshall,
Alan Duke, thank you for being with us, Nancy Grace
signing off, goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessing over
unsolved mysteries? Do you wish they were a group of
people just like you to talk motives and alibis with.
(50:03):
If so, join the crime Con Cold Case Club and
work alongside experts and fellow crime sleuths to help uncover
new leads and theories in the cold cases they adopt.
Their first cold case focuses on the mysterious disappearance of
nursing student Maura Murray in two thousand four, and it's
free to join thanks to Oxygen. Sign up now or
find more info at Club dot crime con dot com.
(50:23):
That's club dot crime con dot com.
February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account,
drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes.
Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovers new evidence,
interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting
new investigative series, The Disappearance of Mora Murray Saturday's seven
(00:23):
sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the new
network for crime Climb stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius
x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. In an ancient
Italian phil tone, the life of a young foreign exchange
(00:44):
student ends and fighters, and the life of another is
forever linked to the crime. Amanda Knox would be convicted.
I was afraid of Blaine Stane. She contemplated suicide. If
I'm in a dye in prison, no matter what, do
I want that to be the one thing that I
have that's on my terms. Samanda is free. Amanda's name
is finally keyed or is it the dud student is
(01:05):
on trial again. I did not believe that I would
be going to say, did you kill Meredith? Now? I
did not kill Meredith. I wish that question didn't have
to be asked. A twenty one year old British student,
(01:26):
Meredith Kircher found brutally murdered in her apartment. What went wrong?
Still so many unsettling questions. It's all about Amanda Knox,
the U S student who was studying abroad who was
roped into a murder charge. Many people still believing that
(01:50):
Amanda Knox took part in some way in the murder
of her roommate, Meredith Kircher. She says, no way. I mean,
it's grace, this is crying stories. Thank you for being
with us. What is the truth? Joining me and Bremner,
high profile lawyer out of Seattle that has had many,
many dealings with Amanda Knox's family, Also with me from
(02:14):
k I n G t V investigative reporter Linda Byron
who interviewed Amanda Knox. Also from l A. Dr Bethany
Marshall's psycho analyst, and of course Alan Duke, the Duke
joining me out of l A. It is the case
that never really seemed to be put to rest. Why
Why does so many people still believe Amanda Knox brutally
(02:39):
murdered her young roommate, Meredith Kircher, Let's go through the
facts as we know them about the scene of the
crime and the timeline of when Meredith was murdered. A
lot of people don't even know Meredith Kircher's name, but
they do know Amanda Knox his name. Let's start at
the beginning. Linda Byron k I n G TV. Tell
(03:02):
me about the day, the evening that Meredith Kircher was Well,
we know that Meredith Kircher had gone to a Halloween party. Um,
we know that Amanda and Rafaeli said that they were
in their apartment that night, uh, and that they were
hanging out. She was supposed to work and got a
text that she didn't need to work, so they decided
(03:25):
they were going to spend the evening. Hold On, hold on,
We're talking about the U S student Amanda Knox and
her boyfriend Rafael Salcito. They were there in the apartment
that Amanda shared with Meredith. Is that right? So they
were in his apartment. I mean, this is the hardest apartment. Correct.
I thought you said her apartment. Okay. Amanda and RAFAELI
(03:46):
said that they spent the evening in his apartment and
that they didn't really go out. They watched a movie
on the computer. In, they made dinner. She was supposed
to work and she did not have to go in.
She got a text from her boss. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, I thought she told cops they smoked
wade and she had sex. Yes, she did, so let
me back up. So Amanda was supposed to go to
(04:08):
work at the bar that she worked at UM with
Patrick Lamuba. She got a text saying it's slow. You
don't have to come in. She texted back, okay, see
you later. She was excited. She told Rafaeli Solecha to
her boyfriend, I don't have to go to work, they said,
except the evening in his apartment UM, they smoked some marijuana,
(04:29):
they had sex, they had dinner, they watched a movie,
and the next day she goes back to her apartment
that she shared with the British roommates and an Italian woman.
You say, the British woman, you're talking about Meredith Kircher,
the twenty one year old. That's right, that's right, yes,
so Meredith Kircher. Meredith Kircher had gone to a Halloween party,
(04:50):
had come home and was alone. Amanda Knox came in
after spending the evening with her boyfriend, and she took
a shower. She noticed some blood in the bathroom. She
did not, um, immediately think that something terrible was wrong,
she said. She told me that she saw this blood,
but it was a little bit. She thought someone might
(05:12):
have cut themselves. Um. And she went back to Raffaelis
and they had a discussion, and she told him she
thought things were strange. UM. Okay, wait a minute. So
she sees blood and didn't she try Merediths room and
the door was locked from the inside. That happened after
she came back with Raffaeli Selecito, she left, they came back,
(05:34):
they tried the door, the door was locked. I think
that's when they really truly became suspicious. Now I'm basing this,
of course, on all of what I heard in the
courtroom and the court transcripts. And so she sees blood
and the door to meredith room is locked on the inside,
and I believe they called Meredith, or she calls Meredith
(05:55):
and she won't answer her cell phone, which is highly unusual. Yes,
because Mary, So we're talking about blood in the bathroom.
How much blood was in the bathroom? Not a large amount, um,
small amount in the sink. There was a small on
the on the rug and so yes, most people would say, wow,
that's really suspicious. Now, she hadn't tried meredith story yet.
(06:17):
She left, went back to Rafaelis. They came back, they
tried the door, and about that time, the postal police
were showing up. And the postal police showed up because
Meredith's cell phones had been found and they're the ones
who investigate. Her phones had been tossed aside um in
kind of a wooded area not far from the apartment.
(06:38):
That's when they come in, stick the door down, and
Meredith Mereth is under a dube cover and it's a
bloody mess in the room and it's obvious that, you know,
a terrible murder has occurred. Wow, were there any other
signs outside of Meredith's room beside uh bare amount of
(06:59):
blood in the bathroom that Amanda Knox saw. Was there
anything else askew or a miss? The front door was
askew when Amanda came home, which should have raised suspicion,
but that doors sometimes apparently didn't shut well. That door
was askew, and there was also some feces in the
toilet and that seemed odd because the girls were pretty
(07:22):
good about making sure that they would flush the toilet.
So later put together, all of those things certainly look suspicious.
Um once that door was kicked in, it was obvious
that Meredith had been murdered. Her foot was sticking out
from under the dubet, and the police investigation, of course
begins at that point and Bremner joining me, high profile
(07:43):
lawyer out of Seattle and lawyer for friends of Amanda Knox,
and thank you so much for being with us, along
with Linda and Dr Bethany Marshall. You know, this is
one of the many reasons that people to this day
believe Amanda Knox was somehow involved in meredith murder. Uh
Number one. She and the boyfriend, Rafaela Selcito couldn't seem
(08:08):
to get their stories straight at the beginning. Their stories
differed over and over and over. The coming home to
find the blood, the cell phone, not answering the door lock,
the front door askew, and not calling police. That disturbed people.
The day after her roommate is raped and brutally brutally
(08:33):
stab dead, she is seen on close circuit TV, you know,
video surveillance in the store I think it was called bubbles,
laughing and snuggling and kissing, Solcto buying lingeriate by underwear.
And at the police station she was laughing and joking,
(08:54):
I believe with the boyfriend at the police station. This
is after her roommate has been murdered. And then of course,
and there's the it has been repeated over and over
where she tells police that she recalls hearing Meredith screaming
for her life, but she just put her hands over
(09:18):
her ears. You know, it brings back Amber Emner and
you and I lived through this together. When O. J.
Simpson said he had a dream that he killed Nicole.
You know, I've never dreamed that I killed anybody yet anyway, um,
but I'm not saying it couldn't happen. But I've never
dreamed that. I never thought of sat amound and thought
of the perfect way to die, unless I'm writing a
murder mystery. But she definitely said that she dreamed, or
(09:42):
she recalls she couldn't make sure if she was in
a feuge state or she was having a dream that
she recalls hearing Meredith screaming for her life in the
next room, and she just put her hands over her ears. See,
a lot of people have a problem with that. Anne.
That was, of course an interrogation in a different language.
She didn't speak Italian back down, although she testified Italian
far far later, white what white, white white? She lived
(10:04):
in Italy and she did speak Italian, and she texted
an Italian. She worked in an Italian bar well, so
she did speak to go from Rooti mentary Italian to
you know, basically talking about an alleged homicide of her
at the primary suspect. But and you know how much
I respect to you is you know, you're a very
renowned legal expert. But ann plase please, But I'm not
(10:29):
saying I'm jumping on the bandwagon. But you can't live
in Italy with an Italian boyfriend and worked in a
bar and you've been living there for a period of
time and say you don't know Italian. The one time
you tell police, yeah I heard my roommate screaming for
her life and I put my hands over my ears.
That's the one time you don't know what you're saying, Nancy.
She knew her boyfriend for a week. I just spent
time with him at a confidence in Europe. But the
(10:50):
thing is basically she was she was she a week,
but she she had said they said, imagine, imagine if
you were there, what would you have done? Then she says,
if I was like a theoretical I would have covered
my ears with screams. The second part of it is
she was interrogated for a long period of time. In fact,
part of it was thrown out because she didn't have
a lawyer and she didn't have a certified interpreter, you know.
(11:11):
And then also she said struck her during the interrogation,
and then she's maintained that all along. So that and
all the other issues raised about making faces, you know,
are acting quirky, that's not probably caused to believe someone
committed a homicide. And finally on the lingerie, her house
was a crime scene. She wasn't buying the lingerie like
the tabloid said, she was just getting items. And finally,
(11:34):
whatever you want to say, didn't have right. Okay, you
can call it whatever you want to call it, but
it doesn't implicate her in a a homicide. I'll say. So
she had to go out to Victoria's secrets and my
enderwear it was bubbles. It was bubble, okay, But the
thing is Nancy. She also, I'm just going to call
that probably cause, and the U they called that probably cause.
(11:55):
But when they were kissing in front of the house,
the next frange shows them looking to sponded Craft and
and Amanda. So you know, all the things that are
tiktof saying the shows them lists saying that she did
this are also completely consistent with and Linda Byron was
jumping in, jumping in Linda. If you look at the
if you look at the yeah, I want to jump
in on this um this statement you made that she
(12:18):
says that she was in the apartment when she heard
her remate screaming for her life, etcetera. Because what really
happened there was after hours and hours and hours of
this interrogation, she signed a confession at one at one
forty five in the morning and then another one at
five forty five in the morning. But to call them
confessions is really not very accurate if you look at
(12:38):
what she said, especially at forty five. By the way,
this was thrown out by the Supreme Court as being
a coerce statement. She said, I do not remember anything.
I am very confused. I do not remember if Meredith
was screaming. At a certain point, I heard Meredith screaming.
I plugged my ears. I imagined, I imagined what could
have happened. That's why you say that again, Linda, Linda Byron,
(13:02):
who has had an in depth interview with Amanda Knox,
could you repeat that again for me exactly what she said?
This is. This is the statement from five in the morning,
after she has been deprived of food and water, after
she's been screamed at by people who come one after
another into the room, and after she says she was
told imagine what would have what might have happened? What
(13:24):
could have happened? She says, I cannot remember. Repeatedly through
this statement, she says, at a certain point, I heard
Meredith screaming, and as I was scared, I plugged up
my ears. I am very confused. I do not remember
if Meredith is screaming and if I heard thuds because
I was upset, I imagined what could have happened. That
to me is not a decisive That is not a
(13:46):
decisive confession. Well, okay, first of all, you said confession.
I said statement. And here is Linda Byron as she
is interviewing Amanda Knox, listen. Meredith's family is still mourning
her death, and to this day believe Amanda was involved.
We asked her about that did you kill Meredith? I
(14:10):
did not kill Meredith. I wish that question didn't have
to be asked. In her recently published memoir, she looks
even younger than I remember her, Knox wrote that she
felt close to Meredith the first night I went there.
She took me out to pizza with all of her friends.
She was very kind and very smart, and she didn't
(14:32):
quite know yet what she wanted to do with her life.
They confided in each other. She said she either wanted
to be a journalist like her dad, or she wanted
to maybe go into like international relations. She was still
figuring herself out, and in the same way, I felt
the same way, like I was there also to figure
myself out. I thought, Oh, I'll be an interpreter and
I'll be a world traveler and it'll be awesome. Those
(14:56):
dreams were crushed when Meredith was murdered and Amanda named
as her killer. I was arrested before I was even
able to really come to terms with the fact that
she was dead. My lawyer showed me her autopsy photos
in prison in preparation for what I was going to
have to go through in court. I I was devastated,
(15:24):
and I was unprepared even then, months and months and
months after my even imprisonment, after all of those times
where they talk about knives and they talk about lovers,
and they talk about Rudy good day and they and
they're talking about all of it, and this case is happening,
and yet you still are not even coming to terms
of it. Then, I actually had a friend who was murdered,
(15:45):
and I've had to defend myself against allegations of being
responsible for that instead of being able to come to
terms with that and to grieve and to find closure.
And I think about her most of all um when
I think about her family. I've never really had the
(16:06):
chance to ever meet her family, and the conditions of
their coming into contact with me ever were always through
the courtroom. I want to see Meredith's grave. I want
to be there, and I want to actually be able
to say goodbye to her. To psychoanalyst Dr Bethany Marshall
(16:30):
for her to say, I think this is what causes
a lot of people to still believe Amanda Knox was
in the apartment when her roommate was murdered. Um it
because to say I can't remember. And then I heard
Meredith screaming. I'm confused. I'm confused. I imagine what could
(16:55):
have happened in there. She's not saying I imagined or
I dreamed I heard her scream She said, I heard
Meredith screaming. Well, but wasn't this an Italian So that's
a very nuanced communication. I imagined I heard her screaming
rather than I heard her screaming. Or imagine what it
(17:15):
would have been like if she was screaming if she
did not speak fluent Italian. She said, no, I just
had Linda Byron say twice in a row. She said,
I'm confused. I'm confused. I heard Meredith screaming. I imagine
(17:35):
what was happening. Well, if she was in her boyfriend's apartment,
which was a five minute walk away, she could not
have heard her screaming. If she was in the house,
obviously she would have heard her screaming. My understanding is
that she was in the boyfriend's house, spent the night.
They smoked a joint, she had sex, they watched a movie.
She walked home the next morning, she gives a conflicting
(17:58):
statement to the police. But what I know is that
when somebody has experienced a horrible trauma, and I think
witnessing a scene like this would qualify as a trauma,
they can say things that are conflicting. I do believe
that can happen. You know that's interesting, Bethany, because um,
I've never heard anybody that sees a murder saying suddenly
(18:22):
say I heard them screaming. I've never seen that happen.
If you come upon a murder sing and then go
out and buy lingerate now to see that, I'm like you,
I don't know what happened, but I can tell you
that those facts are very troubling. And am Bremner, who's
not just a friend, who is a colleague, has worked
(18:42):
with Amanda's family and his lawyer related to a meant
friend of Amanda an Ox, And that's why I have
her here today. And I mean, I think that looks bad.
Now I know the status of the case. The Italian
High Court has exonerated her. Yes, but I'm telling you
those facts are very troubling. Anne. Nobody can say those
(19:04):
facts are not troubling. You know. The fact is they
asked her to imagine what happened, and that's why she
said she imagined it. This was after brow beating her
in a foreign language we've already talked about and without
an interpreter, and of course this is thrown out. She
also recanted what she had to say. Are you saying
they browbeat her because they didn't give her anything to eat?
I mean, it's one o'clock in the morning, why would they.
(19:24):
Let's get down to what this case was really about
me and seeing that was there were no forensics. They
had two lotems they said that they connected her to
the crime. Those are found to be inadmissible, compromise and
contaminated by independent experts appointed by a judge. The highest
court in Italy. Didn't just say she was not guilty.
They said she was exonerated, that this was a travesty,
that she'd been through this. So we can go back
and we can look at what she said when they
(19:45):
asked her to imagine, you know, what would have happened
had she been there? And she complies and she says
that and she says she's confused. You know, it's a
whole lot of nothing in this case, but it's a
whole lot of what led her to serve four years
in prison for a crime she didn't commit. And that's
the bottom line. And land course confessions there, we know
they happen all over the place. I want to pause
very quickly and thank our partner as we continue to
(20:07):
argue about Amanda Knox again, the Italian High Court has
exonerated her and she's here in the US. In fact,
she just signed a three point eight million dollar book deal.
She is here. I want to thank our partner, and
that partner is legal Zoom. When you run your own business,
(20:28):
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(21:35):
me high profile Seattle lawyer and Bremner Linda Byron investigative reporter,
Bethanie Marshall, excuse me, Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalist joining me
out of l A. And Alan Duke the Duke joining
me out of l A as well. Take a listen
to what the Italian prosecutor says. The principal evidence was
(21:59):
mixed UG traces from which were extracted mixed DNA of
a mandan meritidista. The only explanation for that mix is
that Amanda was bleeding and touched objects that were covered
in meredis blood. Jet didn't there's no other explanation. To
Linda Byron, investigative reporter, Linda, you disagree. You have had
(22:23):
a chance to meet an interview in debt with Amanda Ox.
You disagree with A prosecutor explained to me your position.
What I can tell you from covering these trials and
sitting in the courtroom and listening to the prosecution and
the defenses, that the prosecution had no solid evidence of
any ever presented. And here's one of the things that
really bothered me, the evolving motive. Initially the prosecutors saying
(22:48):
that this was some kind of satanic right because um
Raffaeli Selecito had been interested in these kind of dark
comics in which vampires are hunted and killed and their
female vampires and the Meredith had dressed for the Halloween
party that night. Uh later the motive evolves again. Now
(23:09):
at the drug field sex game. No evidence put forward
for that, either when that was shown or when that
was countered so strongly enough the pause, white a minute,
White a minute. I need to understand something. Was Meredith
Kircher closed, unclosed or partially closed when her body was
found she was partially closed. Okay, so she's partially closed.
(23:30):
She had been raped and she was covered in blood.
I could kind of see where prosecutors got the idea
some sort of sex attack that happened did happen because
somebody was convicted of rape and murder, and that would
be the guy from the I an attack, but but
a sex game, a sex game that Meredith refused to
protect that. The theory was this, that Amanda and her
(23:54):
boyfriend wanted to do something fun and different and exciting
and extreme, and they decided that they were to have
this sexual tryst with Meredith Kercher, and when Meredith refused
to participate, they slid her through out and killed her.
This isn't what you're talking about. Is a motive we
see all the time from her, and that is rapes
often leads to murder because they want to cover up
(24:16):
the crime. The prosecutor called this a drug field sex game.
Then when that was countered in court, it became that
theory sort of drifted away, and it became Meredith was
such a wonderful, sweet, innocent girl that Amanda hated her
and this was about This is about hate, and Amanda
had bad bathroom habits and she was tired of her
(24:37):
roommates bothering her about those kinds of things. And then
it was about money. No, maybe Amanda's killed Meredith for money.
This is what bothered me is the prosecution did not
find a motive stick with the motive. It was an
evolving motive every time something didn't fit. In fact, at
one point the knife they had the knife, the murder knife,
allegedly didn't fit the stablemnce, so the prosecutor or said
(25:00):
there were two knives. That is not the way I
have seen good solid trials produce evidence that lead to conviction. Well,
I can say this, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, that motives evolve.
So the fact that the prosecution I mean the Satanic
cult things sounds kind of outlandish to me. I don't
(25:20):
believe I would have mentioned that, but I mean you
find out during an investigation, during a trial, you find
out evolving motives. Luckily, in the United States, you don't
have to show a motive to a jury. You have
to prove who did it and you know the date
essentially um the general date. You have to show jurisdiction,
and you have to show the murder and who did
(25:42):
it bam. We are not expected to crawl into the
mind of a killer and figure out what they were thinking,
but juries like to hear motives motives evolve. You may
think a case, a murder is because of one thing,
and then the more you investigate, you find out something else.
So a changing ODO doesn't concern me. What does concern
(26:02):
me is that another guy I believe was unrelated to
Amanda Knox, and that would be the Rudy Rudy Gooday
from the Ivory Coast who was found guilty give sex
assault and murder of Meredith Kircher. Now does that and
it was his DNA all over the room and all
(26:23):
over the That is a concern to me. That is
a hard fact to me. That suggests Amanda Knox is
not guilty. But I still have her claiming I put
my hands over my ears. I heard her screaming in
the next room. That makes me think that she was
there at the time. Okay, that that's where I'm coming from.
(26:43):
I've never ever thought Amanda Knox took a knife and
stab Meredith Kircher. But because of her own statements, I
can't get away from the fact that she says she
heard here's her screaming. Now, can that be explained to weight? Maybe?
But this guy has been found guilty. His his sentence
has been reduced to just sixteen years for rape and murder.
(27:06):
I met Marenath Krocher's family is turning cartwheels right now,
Bethany Marshall, Right, sixteen years can you imagine it? And
and his DNA was its at the scene, and uh,
Amanda Knox and her boyfriend's DNA was not there, and
you know, from a scientific perspective, you can't. They couldn't
go in and clean up their own DNA and just
(27:27):
leave his DNA there, right, So obviously they weren't in
the room. But in terms of all these stories that
were being told, the sex uh story was the one
that stuck. That's the one I remember at the time.
The idea that Amanda and her boyfriend were trying to
ramp up their sexual experience, so they wanted to turn
Meredith into a sex slave, and then she resisted, so
(27:49):
they had to slid her throat. That was the story
that everyone was fascinated by. Um. I think that some
of the boyfriends uh Slocito's dn A was found on
Meredith ross strap, but that was forty six days later,
so that was an interesting twist too. I agree with you, Nancy, whoa,
whoa what what? What about her brass trap? Well, Meredith
(28:11):
Kercher's boss. I remember at the time, and I was
just reading about this this morning, that Amanda Knox's boyfriend,
her new boyfriend, Salacito, is that how you pronounce his name?
That the boyfriend's DNA was found on meredith brass strap,
on a clasp, on a bros strap. But this was
forty six days after the crime, and this was quite
(28:34):
incriminating as well. But that was that is that that
was Linda Byron. Was her DNA found on Kercher's brass trap.
There was a trace amount of DNA that that was
attributed to Rafaeli's selective What the scientific experts from Rome
said when they were brought in at the second trial
(28:56):
to analyze all of this evidence, they said that that
was on was certainly from contamination. If you look at
the video of the crime scene, if you look at
the criminal as they're going through and they're processing the
crime scene, forty six days after they've been in and
out of that room over and over and in and
out of the house, they picked up this little piece
of a broad clasp and they handed all around, They
(29:17):
passed it all around and they're all looking at it.
This was found to be terribly sloppy. Do you know that, Linda,
Do you know it was handed around? You can see
it on the video and it was brought up in
court though the video. It was brought up in court. Yes,
that you see it being handed around. That that's that's
The second appellate court stated that the victim, the murder victim,
(29:39):
Meredith Kircher's broad class that had been cut from her
body had Solicito's d n A on the tiny metal
clasp of the bra. This is Amanda Knox's then boyfriend.
The biological d n A on the broad class that
(29:59):
Meredith Kircher was wearing belonged to Rafaelli Solicy too. If
he had been in that room, if he had been
handling her clothing, if he had ripped that brock left
from her body, his DNA would have been all over
the room. This is what bothered me when I covered
this trial, was I kept looking for what we normally
(30:20):
see in these kinds of cases, which is DNA evidance.
And if he had been inside that room and there
had been this struggle for this drug field sex game,
the prosecutor claimed that um Amanda Knox is the one
that slid her throat that she was being held back
by Rafaeli Selecci too, and that Rudy good Day was
sexually assaulting her. All of them should have had DNA
(30:43):
all over that room. The only DNA was found was
Rudy good Day, and it was found in the vaginal swab.
It was found in the camphort and on the pillow.
It was found on the blood on the sweatshirt warmed
by the victim, and his previous behavior was highly suspicious
of being one to enter apartments to rob equipped with knives.
All of this is in Judge Hellman's report. Judge Hellman
was the judge's second trial that exonerated Amandana. To me,
(31:06):
that is a more simple and more obvious scenario as well,
because I'm still looking for the connection. I mean to
me her Amanda Knox's words are damning, but I don't
I still don't have a connection between Amanda Knox, boyfriend Soelcito,
and Rudy Gooday, the guy from the Ivory Coast whose
(31:28):
DNA was at the scene. Did they work together, did
they know each other before? Any connection at all? If
I can connect the three of them, then that would
be a leg to stand on. But were they connected, Linda,
was anybody connected to Rudy Gooday. Rudy good Day had
been known to play basketball in the basketball court near
(31:50):
where the girls lived in this apartment in the house
and below their floor. So this was a this was
a two story kind of almost like a duplex type
thing where a number of young men lived there. Ruddy
Gooday was known to have come to their apartment, to
their part of the home and spend time with them.
So he has a very peripheral connection to that house.
(32:13):
What you're saying, good Day spent time with who the
boys that lived beneath the girls. This is a house
that has two stories, and like many many houses in Italy,
and also here, you may run out one floor to
one group of roommates and you may run out another
floor to another group of roommates. So below below the
four rooms where these you know these um college where
(32:36):
e Meredith and Amanda and the two other women lived,
there was an apartment that was occupied by some young
men who were known to have an acquaintance with Ruddy Goodet. Gotcha,
But there was no common there's no common entrance between
the two places. And with me is Seattle lawyer and Bremner,
who is related to friends of Amanda Knox that group.
(32:57):
And was there any connection between who we know is
there because of DNA and her vagina and that would
be Rudy good Day. Is there any connection between him
and the boyfriend raphael A Selasita. No, And you know
he also confessed on skype Rooty good Day and he fled,
(33:18):
and we know that evidence of flight is evidence of guilt.
Nancy and Linda also enumerated the other things that indicate
his guilt. He's all over that room. And he had
a fast tracked trial. That's just like a slow guilty
play in the United States. He was tried together with
the other defendants in their pre trial hearing on problem
because that's why he got a better sentence. Better man,
you're not kidding sixty. He can already leave Jill. I
(33:40):
think for work for a lows. I mean, really, guys,
take a listen to more of what that prosecutor said.
The the erotic game was always part of the case.
I think that night Amanda wanted to make Meredith pay
for judging her, but she found offensive rough. I'm all
(34:07):
for looking at the hard evidence. And again I said,
I couldn't get away from Amanda Knox, stating that she
could hear Merrideth screaming and put her hands over her ears,
which means she had to be in the home at
the time. All right, now, how can I reconcile that
with this crazy scheme, that this motive which they didn't
need anyway, but they blurted it out, that Amanda Knox
(34:31):
murdered Meryth Kircher because Meredith Kircher judged her lifestyle. That
doesn't make sense to me. What I would need to
really believe this to believe the prosecution's case. What I
would really need is a connection between Amanda Knox or
her boyfriend, her lover Rafaeli Solcy too with the rapist,
(34:52):
and that would be Rudy Gooday. I know he did
it because his DNA is on and in her body
and all over the room. I think that prosecutor has
had reason to believe Amanda and her boyfriend may have
been involved, But I don't see a connection right now
to the day that will hold up in court. What
(35:12):
is happening now with Amanda Knox. I know that she
was the focus a very popular documentary. I know that
she says or her supporters have said she's returning to
Italy to rid herself of the trauma of the false
and president, and that Meredith Kircher's family says, please don't please.
(35:33):
You're the only one that has profited of Meredith brutal murder,
our daughter, our our sister. Please don't come back. Just
you know, deal with your trauma in your own way,
that's what they're saying. I don't know why they would
say that if they believe she was innocent. I also
know she just did almost a four million dollar book deal.
So where does she's Where does her life stand today?
(35:55):
A Bremner, Yeah, she's doing well. She's she's very low
key in some time with her, even at her house,
and she seems to have her feet on the ground.
I just think it's, you know, one step at a time. Um.
She doesn't seek out the limelight. But people don't bug
her in the press here in writing said they wouldn't
bother when she has not to be contacted, So I
(36:16):
think that's good. But she's um, she's got forecasts orange cats. Um, Yeah,
she forecasts um. And she did go to Europe. She
didn't go to Italy, but she did go to Europe
recently with her boyfriend, and he's a great guy. I
worked with his mom in the court system. So I
think that those are all good things. You know that
she seems to be settling down in a good way.
(36:36):
What happened to the charge that she blinded an innocent
person another person, well that that was that was still
out there. Linda can talk more about that because I
wasn't in court for that part of it. But Amanda
had a book deal years ago, Nancy, and that money
has gone to pay for lawyers. I mean, she had
lawyers for you know, nearly a decade, including here in
the United States, because there's a potential extradition. She um,
(36:58):
there's a Netflix piece that she participated in but she
was not compensated for. And then also, you know, she's
been very active and innocence projects around the country. You know,
I've attended a number of those with her. You know,
she's settled down with a great guy. His name is
Chris Robinson. He's a writer. He was from Hunter College,
he was a professor there. She writes for the West
Seattle Harold. They supported her. She has a life and
(37:19):
arts column, and she's trying to live a normal life.
You know, she seems you know, of course anyone would
have PTSD from this. Anybody would be completely traumatized from
being internationally vilified, you know, for such a long time.
But she's back in Seattle and she's living a quiet life.
You know. I just can't get my mind around Linda
Byron uh investigative reporter. They collimed this girl was in
(37:42):
some sex game that went wrong and so she ended
up murdering her roommate. I mean, a lot of room
mates don't get along. I get it, but that is crazy.
That's crazy. I mean, if the prosecution had hoped for
a conviction that was a that shooting yourself in the foot,
throwing that out, that's a motive that they just didn't
I the jury just did not buy that motive. And
it was and there was very little presented in court
(38:04):
that would indicate that they had a bed. Well wait
a minute, somebody got somebody bought it, because somebody bought
it somewhere the first time that is true. She she
she was and then she was exonerated, and then that
was thrown out, and then she was essentially reconvicted by
the Florence court. But in the end, if you read
through all of the documents of all of the courts,
(38:25):
including the Supreme Court, uh that motive was dismissed as
being unsupported. The Italians sue Italians, you know, I want
to I want to ask you, though you said that
that Amanda Knox has profited from this, and my understanding
I said that Meredith Kercher's family said Amanda Knox is
(38:46):
the only one that has profited from meredith murder, which
they did, Okay, point taken in terms of profit, though,
I do want to point out what Ann said, and
that is that the money went, as far as I
understand it, to pay for her lawyers and to satisfy
the mortgages that her parents and her grandmother took out
on their homes to pay for her legal bills, and
(39:10):
to be in Italy because the family always make sure
someone was there to visit her in prison once a
week when she got a prison visit, So they rented
an apartment. This was a highly expensive defense for them.
I think they threw everything they could at it. And
who wouldn't do that as a parent, to have you know,
your child in a foreign prison for a crime that
you do not believe she committed. Um, and I think
(39:34):
we do have to look at in the end, the
Italian Supreme Court did not just say innocent in that
she excuse me, they didn't just say not guilty. In
other words, there's a distinction in Italy between you did
not prove the crime was committed and exoneration innocence. They
said she was exonerated completely. And I think we have
(39:54):
to have some faith in in the Italian justice systems
ultimate processing of this crime. And even heard his trial,
even though it's with years and years and years, certainly
didn't feel about the way we would, you know, expect
to see it. But in all that time and all
those trials and all that testimony, I never heard or
saw a single piece of solid, convincing evidence that showed
(40:16):
Amanda knoxes in that room or committed that crime. Well,
I have absolutely no faith in the Italian court system
because and I'm not saying they got it wrong, because
I never saw the connection between the boyfriend solicito and
Amanda Knox and the rapist who I mean, you can't
(40:36):
tell me he raped her and then somebody else just
happened to walk in within the next hour and murder her. Okay,
he murdered her and I can't see a connection between
the three of them. But I don't have any faith
in the Italian system. And I'll tell you why, because
she's tried, she's convicted, but it was held on appeal,
then it was reversed on appeal. And then what they
(40:58):
re tried her on appeal what they decided to re
look at the evidence with how do how do you
reconvict someone on appeal without another draw Nancy. They had
the first trial, of course, was a conviction in two
thousand and nine, I think it was, but they have
was called trial di novo really in Italy. So the
second trial was the second trial, slow it down, slow
it down. In Italy. There on appeal, it's called a
(41:21):
trial de novo, which is you know, means a new trial,
a trial anew. So they presented evidence on appeal and
that's where the experts were appointed on appeal in the
trial to novo by the judge, and that's where the
experts said that the evidence was compromised. Yes, yes, but
then after that was she there, yes, yes, but for
(41:44):
the trial, the trial for the preclusion, and this was
really triple jeopardy in my mind, she was exonerated or
she was acquitted in two thousand eleven, and then she
was tried again in abstentia and convicted, and then the court,
the Supreme Court, the highest court. Cecy said she was
completely exonerated, not just innocent, not just not guilty. Guys,
(42:07):
I heard you the first, you know, maybe ten times
you said exonerated. I get it. She was exonerated. And
I'm looking at all the sides, and I appreciate it
when other people try to have an open mind, okay,
and to pretend there is not evidence that appears to
be damning. That's disingenuous to me. So I'm looking at
(42:33):
all the evidence that I know, and there is evidence
that looks bad for her to me. But again, when
I look at the hard evidence, Bethany Marshall, I just
don't see that connection with the with the rapist. I don't.
I don't see. Well, I agree with you. The science
(42:54):
doesn't does not back up that Meredith. And I'm sorry
Amanda and her boyfriend were in the room with Meredith, right,
but the behavioral evidence does not look good at all.
The fact that she said I heard her screaming. You
kept asking me about that and I've been thinking about it,
and the only possibility I can think of was that
she didn't spend the night with her boyfriend, she went
(43:15):
back to her apartment, heard her roommate screaming, ignored it,
and then went back to her boyfriend's apartment. Again, the
only thing I can think of. And then the video
we've seen of her kissing her boyfriend the next morning,
the shopping for lingerie at Bubbles, it can only be,
you know, one of two things. One is that she
(43:35):
was experiencing something that we call reaction formation. That's when
you turn an underlying feeling into its opposite, so a
feeling of great shock. You know, I feel very close
to you. Okay, I think you're awesome. But when you
have to just start doing backflips to explain something away,
that doesn't work with me. All right now, I know
(43:57):
what it is like to have someone very dear to
be murdered and going out and buying lingerie the next morning,
to me, does not indicate that you're the least bit concerned.
And and Bremner again, I respect you. You're known all
over the world, But to tell me, well, her her
apartment was a crime scene, she had to what go
buy a thong. No, not buying that either. So I
(44:19):
don't know what it means. It may mean nothing, but
I do know this. Let me throw this to dry.
And again, none of that a murder makes period. The
fact that Meredith Kircher's family, according to delhimail dot com protests,
does not want her, Amanda Knox, to come back to
(44:40):
Italy and is They're very they're very firm about it,
and they continue to say she's the only one that
profited from Meredith death. Now Meredith murder, Now what does
that mean to you? Because in all the years I
prosecuted homicides, I can only kind of and ful of
(45:00):
times the victims family did not support the prosecution. Typically
it was when they were related, like you know, domestic
commicide and the children did not want their dad prosecuted.
That's a common example of the murder victims family not
supporting the prosecution. Here, the murder victims family does not
(45:21):
seem to support Amanda Knox. Why is that, you know, Nancy, Nancy,
One of the things that I keep thinking about is
that their daughter is dead and Amanda is alive. And
how painful is that for the family. And not only
is Amanda alive. But there's, as we're talking about, all
(45:41):
the behavioral evidence, she was kissing her boyfriend at the scene,
going and buying lingerie, so disrespectful towards Meredith, and whatever
the underlying psychological motivations for that Behaviorally, it was a
huge sign of disrespect. So I can see why the
family would not want more a reminders of this. And also,
(46:02):
you know, Amanda has profited, even though the proceeds may
have gone towards her legal defense. Four million dollars. That's
a lot of money for a book, and she now
has fame, she has notoriety, She's sort of situated for
the rest of her life, even even though she's had
this horrible trauma. I think every time this family sees Amanda,
(46:22):
they have to think about what would their own daughter's
life had been like if she was alive. I was
thinking during this show, how old would Meredith have been
at this point? I think Meredith would have been This
was ten years ago, right, this is the anniversary Meredith
was twenty one years old. She would have been thirty
one years old and living a full life. So how
can they want to see Amanda living a full life
(46:43):
when their own daughter was cut off from that possibility
and that potential. Okay, Bethany, that actually makes a lot
of sense to me because when see I can't say
nearly as well as you do, but when they say Amanda,
it's everything Meredith can never be and it reminds them
of that horrible time. Do they blame Amanda? Do they
(47:05):
still believe that she is involved and is guilty? Linda Byron,
I can only say what I've what I've read, and
what I've seen reported, and that is that they have
always had at least some suspicion that Amanda was involved.
I mean, I think they relied on the prosecutors and
(47:26):
trusted the prosecutors to tell them that this is what happened,
and we have the evidence to back it up. But
no matter how, I know that they were quote better
with the night and if they did not think that
she was involved, and why were they better? I think
that that's troubling, is very troubling, and that Amanda either
(47:50):
killed their daughter or was involved. And you know, you
have to think about do they really want the celebrity
and all of this is Amanda Knox. Do they really
want her to come back to Italy or to visit
Perugia where the murder occur, because all of the the
hights and all of the hoop law and all of
it is going to start all over again. I mean
people they have not forgotten about. Well, this is what
(48:12):
they have said. It's it's been years, it's now since
Meredith was murdered there in Italy. The family and I
am quoting from the Independent, the family is in shock
after the verdict. They don't wish to make any other declarations.
I've had to explain to them there are no now,
no avenues open to them. There is a great sense
(48:34):
of bitterness. They are, the reporter says. The Kircher's, who
had previously spoken of their confidence in the Italian justice system,
have made it clear they believe Miss Knox and Mr
sols Too were involved in the killing, along with Rudy Gooday,
who has already been jailed for murder. Now there's no
(48:55):
getting around it. Tell Italy Supreme Court of Cassassion has
clear heard Miss Knox and Mr Solacito. Um, what does
it mean? They say that there were changing alibis by
Amanda Knox. They're convinced they're guilty, but they claimed that
(49:17):
Good Day could never have acted alone. I think when
you have a man and a woman alone an apartment,
that he can't overcome her, assault her and murder her,
because I've seen it happen so many many times. There
will always be those people that still believe Amanda Knox
is guilty. But the Italian court has ruled and exonerated her.
(49:41):
But the mystery goes on and Bremner, Linda Byron, Bethany Marshall,
Alan Duke, thank you for being with us, Nancy Grace
signing off, goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessing over
unsolved mysteries? Do you wish they were a group of
people just like you to talk motives and alibis with.
(50:03):
If so, join the crime Con Cold Case Club and
work alongside experts and fellow crime sleuths to help uncover
new leads and theories in the cold cases they adopt.
Their first cold case focuses on the mysterious disappearance of
nursing student Maura Murray in two thousand four, and it's
free to join thanks to Oxygen. Sign up now or
find more info at Club dot crime con dot com.
(50:23):
That's club dot crime con dot com.
Host
Nancy Grace
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