August 1, 2025 • 43 mins
Former "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett convicted of staging a hate crime attack against himself on a cold Chicago night. Then the Illinois Supreme Court overturned Smollett's conviction. The court did not consider where the actor committed the crime, only that his constitutional rights were violated when he was prosecuted again after the original charges were dropped. Smollett then settled with the city. Now a new Netflix documentary suggest Smollett was telling the truth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I cannot believe it. Netflix
at it again. In the last days, we learned about
a so called Netflix special documentary okay, that tasted bad,
(00:22):
going down documentary with quote new evidence that Jesse Smolett's
hate crime hoax quote might just be a true story. Okay,
somebody comes, scrape me off the floor. What Okay, we've
(00:44):
heard about this, We've investigated this, we have the two
guys that pulled the hoax with checks written to them.
We've got all the lies, we've got all the circumstantial evidence.
And now Netflix announces quote documentary. You know, I think
it should be called a mockumentary about Jesse Smollette and
(01:08):
his hate crime hopes. Okay, wait for it. What's the
title quote The truth about Jesse Smollette question mark end quote.
I'm gonna vomit. No, I've got to keep reporting. According
to Netflix, they have quote new evidence about the case,
(01:31):
and we'll tell the quote shocking true story of an
allegedly fake story that some now say might just be
a true story. Okay, that's a loaded ad. I need
to see, Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us. Let's just off the top say technical
(01:54):
legal term, that's bs. Jesse Smollette pull off a hoax,
a hoax that engendered so much hatred, so many bad feelings,
wrongdoing from within the prosecutor's office and more. If you'll recall, Smolett,
(02:18):
famous for the storing role of Jamal Lyon on Fox's
drama Empire. He then reported himself as a hate crime victim,
one because he is black and two because he is gay.
(02:38):
And he did the unthinkable. He wrapped a rope around
his neck to suggest he was threatened with being lynched,
lynched an unknown chemical substance he said was poured on him. Hello,
he did it himself.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
At first, the so called hate crime was met with
incredible support for Smollette, all sorts of famous stars like
Bayola Davis, Sean de Rhime's political figures like VP Harris
Corey Booker described it as an attempted modern day lynching.
(03:22):
That is, until, of course, the evidence came out. What
do we know about what really happened that night when
Jesse Smollette staged a hate crime on himself and what
was the motive to make more money per episode on
Empire by conjuring up pr Press media on himself. Now,
(03:53):
this is how I recall it all went down.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
You know, it's two o'clock in the morning, You're going
to subway.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And so there is open twenty four hours. Like people
kill me when they say things like that, because it's like,
subway is open twenty four hours for a reason, so
that when you're hungry at night and you ain't got
no food, you go to subway. The camera facing north.
How is that my issue? It feels like if I
had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican or
(04:23):
someone black, I feel like the doubters would have supported
me a lot much more, a lot more. And that
says a lot about the place that we are in
our country right now, the fact that we have these
fear mongols, these people that are trying to separate us,
and it's just not okay. It's just not okay. And
(04:48):
for all of the people. The next time that you
see someone report something, maybe well after the fact that
it happened, and you say to them, well, why are
you waiting till now? Just remember that mine was reported
right away and look what has happened.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males. It changed at
some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
(05:30):
the story started. That also has changed at two am
in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.
According to Jesse Smollette, everyone knows him, big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(05:51):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived.
They found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(06:13):
the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
(06:36):
on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
criminal attorney DARYLD. Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta,
joining joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and
(06:58):
joining me right now, Crime on line dot COM's Ellenclaurin E. K.
Let's just start at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Typically, when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything,
usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it,
and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't
feel like getting up and even going to the fridge
because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two
am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Go.
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Well, it does appear that Jossy Smollett had arrived to
the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
was a matter of him waking up in the middle
of that and going out to the freezing cold in
the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and
he's he tells police that he's on his way home
with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Wa wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
this is in Chicago, correct.
Speaker 7 (07:49):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, So how cold is it it?
Speaker 6 (07:53):
We were pretty sure it was blow freezing temperatures. This
this was during a very very very cold spell in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I don't know the exact Dr Bethney. He must have
been very hungry, very hungry.
Speaker 8 (08:04):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
starts blowing forty fifty degree below windschill. I did my
undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at to.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.
(08:46):
And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge
or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,
he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.
See I start right there, That's where I start the story,
and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
I just think that's Craig cray.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Well, I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at two
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was you busted on child porn? I guess it
was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen, I
mean a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely nothing
to do with it.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see from all of the evidence that's been
presented to me, this guy is looking for more publicity
for whatever the reason, and he is about to get it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true because the official,
the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
treated as a victim because he is a victim. Crime
Stories with Nancy Grief. In the last hours, we learn
(10:15):
that Netflix is at it again, sturring their witches cauldron
with quote new evidence that the hate crime against Jesse
Smilette and his story quote might just be a true story.
As you will recall. Soon after Smollett takes to the
(10:39):
airwaves describing how he was the victim of a hate crime,
Chicago PD released surveillance images of the perpetrators and identify
the two as also being black. They are Nigerian American brothers.
So we see the attackers performing a quote hate crime
(11:02):
on Smolette who is black, and the purpse are black. Okay,
just let that soak in for a moment. To claim
a hate crime and wrap a rope around your neck
as if you were threatened with lynching. Nothing could be
(11:22):
more incendiary in our American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era
that our country endured, all brought to the forefront by
Smollette's hoax. Then evidence came out Smolet orchestrated his own
(11:45):
attack and paid the brothers nearly four thousand dollars. Idiot
wrote a check. Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his
hate crime attack. What more do we know?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
When did you, because as you said, it was an
accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
We gave we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked
for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone
to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry,
but I'm not gonna do that. Why Because I have
(12:35):
private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my
family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails,
my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know
what that's going to be to hand over my phone.
And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
(12:57):
put out there.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You're hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smollette, the
Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
(13:19):
a sandwich, and is attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted the phone to confirm that he
(13:43):
called his manager and not nine to one one. They
aren't being clear why they want the phone, but they
want the phone. Karen Smith jourining me for insics expert
out of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
the best now in the world of social media and
texting is to get the phone of the victim. You
can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and
Twitter and all of those things, and text messages especially
Listen if nothing happened. And I understand, you know the
(14:16):
privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever
that he not released.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
But the police they're not going to go into that.
Speaker 7 (14:23):
That's not their interest. Their interest is looking at communications
between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators if there
was any, if there was any, the phone call that
he made to his manager, what time did he make it,
where did he make it from. All of those questions
have to be answered, and they have to have the device.
They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not
(14:45):
how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,
felony prosecutor, and the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
when I first started prospers, we did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(15:09):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(15:31):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
rope tied around your neck out on the street, you're
handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(15:55):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
out why he would call his manager. The last time
I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was not
a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police any
of us. Any of us, whether we're an actor, whether
we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we may be,
(16:18):
we are going to call the police if something bad happens.
So yeah, I've got a real problem with him not
turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he
thinks he's Jesse James. He is having Oh you work
right now. He's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You probably stand up all night.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Law. I thank you coming.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one.
You know, it's a big deal to me, Darryl. And
I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in
my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because
you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
(16:56):
You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts,
knew at all when you went in front of a jury,
and in this case, when you have a victim that
does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. I
don't care who he is. I don't care who he
sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
(17:18):
But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
a problem with me. What's your problem.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
There's a problem with me as well. I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees
it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
Really and you well.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Because he's a famous things TV star. So here, here's
the thing. This is another wrinkle in this too, Ellenklauren
Crime online dot Com. Hold On, I'm going to write
this down. Here's the thing. So, if they were targeting
Jesse Smolette, Okay, hold on, they were targeting him and
(18:07):
this was a hate crime, how do they know to
be outside the subway at too am with bleach and rope?
Or are they just hanging around to get a sandwich
and they happen to have bleach and rope with them?
If they were targeting Jesse Smolette, E k were they
(18:28):
casing out his apartment? Why were they there at two am?
And I haven't even touched on these two guys, these
two Nigerian guys that work out in his apartment building,
gim that know him, that have been extras on the
set of Empire, or at least one of them has
(18:51):
that have been questioned and released and allegedly are now
saying they were paid to do the attack. But first
of all, to get to the theory, Ellen to Laurence.
So the perps were what waiting outside the subway sandwich
shop for him? I mean, what's the theory here? How
did they know he was going to be getting a
(19:12):
sandwich at two am if he was the one targeted
for a hate crime?
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
has an un Instagram account and he's a very active
social media user, and we learned over the weekend that
he had been in New York during the previous days
and he was on He had flown back to Chicago
that night, but his flight was the lead and he
(19:39):
came in much later and expected, and he posted a
couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram account talking about
how his flight was delayed. So someone who had to
have had a little bit of information about what was
going on with him that day, if they wanted to
track his movements, they could to a certain degree through
(20:00):
his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Okay, let me ask you this, Eka, regarding Jesse Smileette.
Now that may make it make more sense that he
was out at two am? Was he was his flight
so delayed? He was just getting home from the airport
at say one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know
the timing of that? Because that makes although the Chicago
(20:23):
airport is full of food, but I don't know if
it would be open. The food stands will be opened
that late at night. So if he gets off a
plane from New York and he gets in midnight, gets
to his apartment at one, he may very well be hungry.
And there is a theory out there that that is
how he communicated to set up the attack through posting,
(20:47):
you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, that these two brothers could
actually see his movements by looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, Ek,
do we know what time he got in from his flight?
Speaker 8 (20:59):
Don't ask me what.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Time he landed or got back to his apartment. But
it does We don't have a lot of very clear
information at all, Nancy, but it does seem as though
it's likely that he did stop off at his apartment first.
But like you said, he has been away the middle
of the night. He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the
flight for longer than expected. The Food Court.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
Put it the Coon.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Netflix at it again, this
time climbing Jesse Mullett quote might just be telling the truth,
He's not. Why are you even saying that Smllet, initially
indicted on sixteen counts of felony disorderly conduct, charges were dropped.
(21:52):
You remember that Kim Fox all up in the middle
of it. A year later he was re indicted. There
was a high profile trial. He was convicted and sentenced
to thirty months probation Hello, plus one hundred and fifty
days in jail finds over one hundred thousand dollars. But
then that conviction was reversed. The Illinois Supreme Court found
(22:17):
that reprosecution violated do you process. But then in twenty
twenty five, Smollett settles with the City of Chicago and
to this day denies he staged the attack. Yes you did,
and this is how we know it. Let's just look
(22:39):
not at Netflix, not at what Smollett says, but at
the facts.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It's just the.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Truth, because everybody has their own idea. Some are healing
and some are hurtful. But I just want young people,
young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children, to
know how strong that they are, to know the power
(23:12):
that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 9 (23:14):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
raw motions.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,
I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken,
but it's who I am, you know, So I get
(23:49):
the idea of pissing people off, that you're going to
rub people the wrong way.
Speaker 9 (23:54):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago, threatening
language at least with powdery substance likely Tailan knol Do
you think there's a link between the letter and the
attack and you did mention it to.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
The police right away out of the.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Letter, absolutely, just because on the letter it had a
stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing
towards it, with the words that said small at Jesse,
you will die black. There was no address, but the
return address it in big red, you know, like caps maga.
Did I make that up too?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with
Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that
the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed
the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video
that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse
(24:52):
Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
Threatening letters?
Speaker 6 (25:10):
Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained
direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two things
about the letter that are coming up more recently in
(25:31):
the discussion around this case. One of those is that
some unidentified sources who have access to the set and
may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News that
he was unhappy about the response to the letter and
the threat that he got, that he felt that there
wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he was angry,
(25:54):
and that they're questioning did he set up this orchestrate
this purported hate crime as retaliation for that. The other
thing that we're learning, and again these are not official
law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources you are talking
to new thoughtless. But we're learning that the letter was
made out of and you can see it in the photos.
(26:16):
The letter was written sort of like a ransom type
of letter with cutout letters from a magazine. And we're
hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of
these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved
in this attack, they took away a magazine.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christi and Erquil Poirot, like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(26:54):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
I can tell you this. Remember the Runaway Bride when
(27:15):
she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
and do community service out in the public for I
forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard
jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of
an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening
at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing
(27:38):
with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and
thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a
fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is
a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall
the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've
been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with
(28:02):
the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what, they
didn't get enough attention. What does that mean to you,
doctor Bethany.
Speaker 8 (28:08):
Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and these crimes
where we find out it's a hoax in the end.
And I don't know if this was a hoax or not.
But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained
to do with crime victims is to find out if
they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering is when you
(28:29):
make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for
some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent
of criminal cases, lingering is involved in some way, twenty
percent of PI cases, as you can imagine MA lingering,
thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, the
(28:50):
more I'm going to get some kind of reward or
attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,
like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm
not going to have to go to the military. So
what's so interesting to me about this story is the
exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's
(29:11):
sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope
around his neck, wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,
he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that
he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,
anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light, he
keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy
(29:32):
nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct
the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to
know clearly what happens. So if I have a patient
and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I
want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,
what did your boss say?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (29:52):
I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very
fuzzy dkay.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Now is it true? Ek Ellen color crime online dot
Com investigative reporter that Smolead had been in New York
to audition for a role in the play that is
very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we
know about the play for which he was auditioning?
Speaker 6 (30:19):
He was at a reading. Actually it wasn't an audition.
I believe he's already part of the cast. But that's
what he was doing in New York. He was flying
back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,
and he was in New York because he was doing
a reading of the script of this play. And the
character in the play is a person of color. It's
a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in the
(30:41):
cave in the case of the fictional character. But he
is someone who the character is someone who has been
the victim of hate crimes that, according to the reports
that we're reading the have some similarities in the crime
that was allegedly committed against him, just that within hours
(31:01):
of him arriving back to Chicago for.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
The same wording, the same slurs, awful slurs. If this
is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also
Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony court,
that he Smelette did not call police. It was a
close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according to
(31:24):
the New York Times, and I think that was his manager.
He did not call police. And when Cox got to
his place, he still was wearing the rope around his neck.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
(31:56):
Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
attacked and this is terrible, but he has a noose
around his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a
guy who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars
(32:20):
on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry,
not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy
is reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,
he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, but
what he didn't see is that he's not as bright
as he believes himself to be. So he's not shakesa Take.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
A Listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers Ola
and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on
actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
Smolette pay the brothers Thou to carry out a staged attack.
So Malette had this to say about the scuffle with
his attackers.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face.
So I punched the ass back. I noticed the rope
around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
People that make false claims to police, much less to
this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
get different treatment. Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of
Empire to Ellenclaurincrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have
(33:38):
all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you
tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them
as Nigerian. They're American, That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they
for reasons that have not been explained and I do
not understand. Apparently, slew to Nigeria the day after the
attack and came back to Chicago last week where they
were met with investigators at the airport. That has not
been explained why that happened or if it has anything
(34:11):
to do at all with the alleged assaults. And I
also wanted to point something else out, since we're talking
about the rope and the phone. A lot of the
things that have come up in recent days really don't
look look good like they look very suspicious, and and
things are starting to really maybe fall apart here in
(34:32):
this story. But a couple of things I think are
not suspicious that happened here. I don't think it's suspicious
that he did not want to hand over his entire
phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's a celebrity.
Speaker 8 (34:45):
You who had Allen received before?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Allen, have you ever been attacked at two am, had
a rope tied around your neck and bleach port on you?
Because if you have, I'd like I have you not
got that? Okay? Because if that happens to you and
your life is in danger, and say we need your phone,
you go here whatever I mean when the cop pulls
me over, which has happened, I like say whatever here,
(35:10):
take it all okay, Just please leave my children behind. Whatever.
I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay. Nobody
should be above the law. And if they want your phone,
give your phone. But you know what, that's you and
this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree to hand over the full records
about the rope. What we heard in the in the
beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope
around his neck because he didn't want to sort of
disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to
see what had been done. That was the explanation for
(35:52):
the rope of being left.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
You know what, I hear you. And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope, or to ruin
any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(36:18):
but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ
our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over
and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them Darryl
cod are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying
that they were so heavily redacted that they were basically
(36:42):
of no use. What about handing over your phone records
to cops and you redact them.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime. First of all, I want
to go back to the net of the noose. If
I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
(37:13):
but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted
and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,
living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
That the whole reason they got interested in the phone
records to start with is that Smolette said to cops
he was on the phone with his manager at the
time of the attack, and that the manager says he
heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown and they
want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.
(37:50):
They asked Salent for the records about two weeks before
they got a PDF file. Now, police also say their
cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a sixty
second gap in the video where you don't see the
Empire Star, so there's no video of the actual attack.
I've looked at shots of the video and you see
(38:11):
two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is
what is telling to me, Doctor Bethany Marshall. These two
guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very
clear on that. Who take off to Nigeria. The day
after the attack. They work out in his building. At
least one of them does in the gym in Spolette's building,
(38:33):
his apartment building. One of them has been an extra
on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.
I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing
a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.
So you can see they work out all the time.
They take off for Nigeria the day after the attack,
they come back and they're met by the cops, they
(38:53):
are questioned, they are released Dtor Bethany no charges and
after meeting with cop say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.
What does that say to you, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 8 (39:06):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, may have fought, no big deal,
we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,
we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all
(39:28):
blown over. But you know what, they talk to the police.
As I was saying about malingering, the whole story does
not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and so
the police are going to look to Jesse. And I
would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of this?
When people malinger symptoms.
Speaker 7 (39:47):
You know, I was.
Speaker 8 (39:47):
Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it for
a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?
Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants
to prove to the EP of the show that he
is the center of a national news situation. Is he
(40:08):
wanting to take somebody else's role in Empire? You know,
I think that there's a reward there somewhere, and if
you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,
according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid
(40:40):
the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.
This is CBS This Morning anchor John Dickerson. Take a
listen to what they see on the video.
Speaker 10 (40:50):
Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollette. Please say
a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
on the night Smollette says he was beaten. The star
of the TV drama Empire said his masked attackers yelled
racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation.
Speaker 11 (41:13):
Investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images to
provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not considered suspects,
but the police do want to know who they are
and what they were doing when Smollette says he was attacked.
Speaker 12 (41:28):
Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
then appear to get up and follow him, although the
three of them are never seen on camera together. About
a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smolette
(41:49):
returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.
The rope was untied but still on his neck when
police arrived forty five minutes after he says he was
a tact.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
The truth about Jesse Smollette, I think I already know
the truth now. This is from the director Gagan Reehill
and raw or Aw, the production company behind several Netflix
hits such as Don't f With Cats and The Tender Swindler.
(42:22):
This is what the director says, and I quote this
story is a thrilling ride. A ride. This was a
court case with evil intent on the behalf of Smollett
to stir up hatred and more ill will across our country.
(42:45):
He goes on to say, I wanted this documentary to
balance their competing narratives. In other words, nobody's getting the
same story because they're listening to Smollette lie end quote,
use their color full testimonies translation lies more lies than Smollett.
(43:08):
But more than that quote. I want this film to
speak to the particular moment of rapid cultural change. I
don't even know what he's talking about. That said, I
do know the truth that came out in court under oath,
under threat of perjury. Netflix documentary or Netflix documentary or
(43:35):
Netflix documentary. I know what happened in court. Smellett did it.
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye,
Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I cannot believe it. Netflix
at it again. In the last days, we learned about
a so called Netflix special documentary okay, that tasted bad,
(00:22):
going down documentary with quote new evidence that Jesse Smolett's
hate crime hoax quote might just be a true story. Okay,
somebody comes, scrape me off the floor. What Okay, we've
(00:44):
heard about this, We've investigated this, we have the two
guys that pulled the hoax with checks written to them.
We've got all the lies, we've got all the circumstantial evidence.
And now Netflix announces quote documentary. You know, I think
it should be called a mockumentary about Jesse Smollette and
(01:08):
his hate crime hopes. Okay, wait for it. What's the
title quote The truth about Jesse Smollette question mark end quote.
I'm gonna vomit. No, I've got to keep reporting. According
to Netflix, they have quote new evidence about the case,
(01:31):
and we'll tell the quote shocking true story of an
allegedly fake story that some now say might just be
a true story. Okay, that's a loaded ad. I need
to see, Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us. Let's just off the top say technical
(01:54):
legal term, that's bs. Jesse Smollette pull off a hoax,
a hoax that engendered so much hatred, so many bad feelings,
wrongdoing from within the prosecutor's office and more. If you'll recall, Smolett,
(02:18):
famous for the storing role of Jamal Lyon on Fox's
drama Empire. He then reported himself as a hate crime victim,
one because he is black and two because he is gay.
(02:38):
And he did the unthinkable. He wrapped a rope around
his neck to suggest he was threatened with being lynched,
lynched an unknown chemical substance he said was poured on him. Hello,
he did it himself.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Now.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
At first, the so called hate crime was met with
incredible support for Smollette, all sorts of famous stars like
Bayola Davis, Sean de Rhime's political figures like VP Harris
Corey Booker described it as an attempted modern day lynching.
(03:22):
That is, until, of course, the evidence came out. What
do we know about what really happened that night when
Jesse Smollette staged a hate crime on himself and what
was the motive to make more money per episode on
Empire by conjuring up pr Press media on himself. Now,
(03:53):
this is how I recall it all went down.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
You know, it's two o'clock in the morning, You're going
to subway.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
And so there is open twenty four hours. Like people
kill me when they say things like that, because it's like,
subway is open twenty four hours for a reason, so
that when you're hungry at night and you ain't got
no food, you go to subway. The camera facing north.
How is that my issue? It feels like if I
had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican or
(04:23):
someone black, I feel like the doubters would have supported
me a lot much more, a lot more. And that
says a lot about the place that we are in
our country right now, the fact that we have these
fear mongols, these people that are trying to separate us,
and it's just not okay. It's just not okay. And
(04:48):
for all of the people. The next time that you
see someone report something, maybe well after the fact that
it happened, and you say to them, well, why are
you waiting till now? Just remember that mine was reported
right away and look what has happened.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males. It changed at
some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
(05:30):
the story started. That also has changed at two am
in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.
According to Jesse Smollette, everyone knows him, big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(05:51):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived.
They found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(06:13):
the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
(06:36):
on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
criminal attorney DARYLD. Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta,
joining joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and
(06:58):
joining me right now, Crime on line dot COM's Ellenclaurin E. K.
Let's just start at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Typically, when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything,
usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it,
and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't
feel like getting up and even going to the fridge
because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two
am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Go.
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Well, it does appear that Jossy Smollett had arrived to
the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
was a matter of him waking up in the middle
of that and going out to the freezing cold in
the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and
he's he tells police that he's on his way home
with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Wa wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
this is in Chicago, correct.
Speaker 7 (07:49):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, So how cold is it it?
Speaker 6 (07:53):
We were pretty sure it was blow freezing temperatures. This
this was during a very very very cold spell in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I don't know the exact Dr Bethney. He must have
been very hungry, very hungry.
Speaker 8 (08:04):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
starts blowing forty fifty degree below windschill. I did my
undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at to.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.
(08:46):
And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge
or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,
he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.
See I start right there, That's where I start the story,
and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
I just think that's Craig cray.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Well, I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at two
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was you busted on child porn? I guess it
was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen, I
mean a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely nothing
to do with it.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see from all of the evidence that's been
presented to me, this guy is looking for more publicity
for whatever the reason, and he is about to get it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true because the official,
the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
treated as a victim because he is a victim. Crime
Stories with Nancy Grief. In the last hours, we learn
(10:15):
that Netflix is at it again, sturring their witches cauldron
with quote new evidence that the hate crime against Jesse
Smilette and his story quote might just be a true story.
As you will recall. Soon after Smollett takes to the
(10:39):
airwaves describing how he was the victim of a hate crime,
Chicago PD released surveillance images of the perpetrators and identify
the two as also being black. They are Nigerian American brothers.
So we see the attackers performing a quote hate crime
(11:02):
on Smolette who is black, and the purpse are black. Okay,
just let that soak in for a moment. To claim
a hate crime and wrap a rope around your neck
as if you were threatened with lynching. Nothing could be
(11:22):
more incendiary in our American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era
that our country endured, all brought to the forefront by
Smollette's hoax. Then evidence came out Smolet orchestrated his own
(11:45):
attack and paid the brothers nearly four thousand dollars. Idiot
wrote a check. Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his
hate crime attack. What more do we know?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
When did you, because as you said, it was an
accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
We gave we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked
for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone
to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry,
but I'm not gonna do that. Why Because I have
(12:35):
private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my
family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails,
my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know
what that's going to be to hand over my phone.
And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
(12:57):
put out there.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You're hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smollette, the
Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
(13:19):
a sandwich, and is attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted the phone to confirm that he
(13:43):
called his manager and not nine to one one. They
aren't being clear why they want the phone, but they
want the phone. Karen Smith jourining me for insics expert
out of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone?
Speaker 7 (13:55):
Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
the best now in the world of social media and
texting is to get the phone of the victim. You
can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and
Twitter and all of those things, and text messages especially
Listen if nothing happened. And I understand, you know the
(14:16):
privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever
that he not released.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
But the police they're not going to go into that.
Speaker 7 (14:23):
That's not their interest. Their interest is looking at communications
between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators if there
was any, if there was any, the phone call that
he made to his manager, what time did he make it,
where did he make it from. All of those questions
have to be answered, and they have to have the device.
They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not
(14:45):
how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,
felony prosecutor, and the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
when I first started prospers, we did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(15:09):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(15:31):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
rope tied around your neck out on the street, you're
handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(15:55):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
out why he would call his manager. The last time
I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was not
a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police any
of us. Any of us, whether we're an actor, whether
we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we may be,
(16:18):
we are going to call the police if something bad happens.
So yeah, I've got a real problem with him not
turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he
thinks he's Jesse James. He is having Oh you work
right now. He's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You probably stand up all night.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Law. I thank you coming.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one.
You know, it's a big deal to me, Darryl. And
I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in
my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because
you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
(16:56):
You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts,
knew at all when you went in front of a jury,
and in this case, when you have a victim that
does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. I
don't care who he is. I don't care who he
sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
(17:18):
But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
a problem with me. What's your problem.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
There's a problem with me as well. I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees
it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
Really and you well.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Because he's a famous things TV star. So here, here's
the thing. This is another wrinkle in this too, Ellenklauren
Crime online dot Com. Hold On, I'm going to write
this down. Here's the thing. So, if they were targeting
Jesse Smolette, Okay, hold on, they were targeting him and
(18:07):
this was a hate crime, how do they know to
be outside the subway at too am with bleach and rope?
Or are they just hanging around to get a sandwich
and they happen to have bleach and rope with them?
If they were targeting Jesse Smolette, E k were they
(18:28):
casing out his apartment? Why were they there at two am?
And I haven't even touched on these two guys, these
two Nigerian guys that work out in his apartment building,
gim that know him, that have been extras on the
set of Empire, or at least one of them has
(18:51):
that have been questioned and released and allegedly are now
saying they were paid to do the attack. But first
of all, to get to the theory, Ellen to Laurence.
So the perps were what waiting outside the subway sandwich
shop for him? I mean, what's the theory here? How
did they know he was going to be getting a
(19:12):
sandwich at two am if he was the one targeted
for a hate crime?
Speaker 6 (19:17):
Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
has an un Instagram account and he's a very active
social media user, and we learned over the weekend that
he had been in New York during the previous days
and he was on He had flown back to Chicago
that night, but his flight was the lead and he
(19:39):
came in much later and expected, and he posted a
couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram account talking about
how his flight was delayed. So someone who had to
have had a little bit of information about what was
going on with him that day, if they wanted to
track his movements, they could to a certain degree through
(20:00):
his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Okay, let me ask you this, Eka, regarding Jesse Smileette.
Now that may make it make more sense that he
was out at two am? Was he was his flight
so delayed? He was just getting home from the airport
at say one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know
the timing of that? Because that makes although the Chicago
(20:23):
airport is full of food, but I don't know if
it would be open. The food stands will be opened
that late at night. So if he gets off a
plane from New York and he gets in midnight, gets
to his apartment at one, he may very well be hungry.
And there is a theory out there that that is
how he communicated to set up the attack through posting,
(20:47):
you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, that these two brothers could
actually see his movements by looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, Ek,
do we know what time he got in from his flight?
Speaker 8 (20:59):
Don't ask me what.
Speaker 6 (21:00):
Time he landed or got back to his apartment. But
it does We don't have a lot of very clear
information at all, Nancy, but it does seem as though
it's likely that he did stop off at his apartment first.
But like you said, he has been away the middle
of the night. He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the
flight for longer than expected. The Food Court.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
Put it the Coon.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Netflix at it again, this
time climbing Jesse Mullett quote might just be telling the truth,
He's not. Why are you even saying that Smllet, initially
indicted on sixteen counts of felony disorderly conduct, charges were dropped.
(21:52):
You remember that Kim Fox all up in the middle
of it. A year later he was re indicted. There
was a high profile trial. He was convicted and sentenced
to thirty months probation Hello, plus one hundred and fifty
days in jail finds over one hundred thousand dollars. But
then that conviction was reversed. The Illinois Supreme Court found
(22:17):
that reprosecution violated do you process. But then in twenty
twenty five, Smollett settles with the City of Chicago and
to this day denies he staged the attack. Yes you did,
and this is how we know it. Let's just look
(22:39):
not at Netflix, not at what Smollett says, but at
the facts.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It's just the.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Truth, because everybody has their own idea. Some are healing
and some are hurtful. But I just want young people,
young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children, to
know how strong that they are, to know the power
(23:12):
that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 9 (23:14):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
raw motions.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,
I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken,
but it's who I am, you know, So I get
(23:49):
the idea of pissing people off, that you're going to
rub people the wrong way.
Speaker 9 (23:54):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago, threatening
language at least with powdery substance likely Tailan knol Do
you think there's a link between the letter and the
attack and you did mention it to.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
The police right away out of the.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Letter, absolutely, just because on the letter it had a
stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing
towards it, with the words that said small at Jesse,
you will die black. There was no address, but the
return address it in big red, you know, like caps maga.
Did I make that up too?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with
Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that
the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed
the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video
that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse
(24:52):
Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
Threatening letters?
Speaker 6 (25:10):
Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained
direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two things
about the letter that are coming up more recently in
(25:31):
the discussion around this case. One of those is that
some unidentified sources who have access to the set and
may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News that
he was unhappy about the response to the letter and
the threat that he got, that he felt that there
wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he was angry,
(25:54):
and that they're questioning did he set up this orchestrate
this purported hate crime as retaliation for that. The other
thing that we're learning, and again these are not official
law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources you are talking
to new thoughtless. But we're learning that the letter was
made out of and you can see it in the photos.
(26:16):
The letter was written sort of like a ransom type
of letter with cutout letters from a magazine. And we're
hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of
these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved
in this attack, they took away a magazine.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christi and Erquil Poirot, like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(26:54):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
I can tell you this. Remember the Runaway Bride when
(27:15):
she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
and do community service out in the public for I
forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard
jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of
an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening
at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing
(27:38):
with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and
thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a
fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is
a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall
the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've
been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with
(28:02):
the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what, they
didn't get enough attention. What does that mean to you,
doctor Bethany.
Speaker 8 (28:08):
Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and these crimes
where we find out it's a hoax in the end.
And I don't know if this was a hoax or not.
But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained
to do with crime victims is to find out if
they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering is when you
(28:29):
make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for
some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent
of criminal cases, lingering is involved in some way, twenty
percent of PI cases, as you can imagine MA lingering,
thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, the
(28:50):
more I'm going to get some kind of reward or
attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,
like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm
not going to have to go to the military. So
what's so interesting to me about this story is the
exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's
(29:11):
sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope
around his neck, wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,
he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that
he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,
anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light, he
keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy
(29:32):
nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct
the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to
know clearly what happens. So if I have a patient
and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I
want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,
what did your boss say?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 8 (29:52):
I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very
fuzzy dkay.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Now is it true? Ek Ellen color crime online dot
Com investigative reporter that Smolead had been in New York
to audition for a role in the play that is
very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we
know about the play for which he was auditioning?
Speaker 6 (30:19):
He was at a reading. Actually it wasn't an audition.
I believe he's already part of the cast. But that's
what he was doing in New York. He was flying
back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,
and he was in New York because he was doing
a reading of the script of this play. And the
character in the play is a person of color. It's
a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in the
(30:41):
cave in the case of the fictional character. But he
is someone who the character is someone who has been
the victim of hate crimes that, according to the reports
that we're reading the have some similarities in the crime
that was allegedly committed against him, just that within hours
(31:01):
of him arriving back to Chicago for.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
The same wording, the same slurs, awful slurs. If this
is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also
Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony court,
that he Smelette did not call police. It was a
close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according to
(31:24):
the New York Times, and I think that was his manager.
He did not call police. And when Cox got to
his place, he still was wearing the rope around his neck.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
(31:56):
Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
attacked and this is terrible, but he has a noose
around his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a
guy who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars
(32:20):
on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry,
not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy
is reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,
he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, but
what he didn't see is that he's not as bright
as he believes himself to be. So he's not shakesa Take.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
A Listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers Ola
and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on
actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
Smolette pay the brothers Thou to carry out a staged attack.
So Malette had this to say about the scuffle with
his attackers.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face.
So I punched the ass back. I noticed the rope
around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
People that make false claims to police, much less to
this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
get different treatment. Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of
Empire to Ellenclaurincrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have
(33:38):
all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you
tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them
as Nigerian. They're American, That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they
for reasons that have not been explained and I do
not understand. Apparently, slew to Nigeria the day after the
attack and came back to Chicago last week where they
were met with investigators at the airport. That has not
been explained why that happened or if it has anything
(34:11):
to do at all with the alleged assaults. And I
also wanted to point something else out, since we're talking
about the rope and the phone. A lot of the
things that have come up in recent days really don't
look look good like they look very suspicious, and and
things are starting to really maybe fall apart here in
(34:32):
this story. But a couple of things I think are
not suspicious that happened here. I don't think it's suspicious
that he did not want to hand over his entire
phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's a celebrity.
Speaker 8 (34:45):
You who had Allen received before?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Allen, have you ever been attacked at two am, had
a rope tied around your neck and bleach port on you?
Because if you have, I'd like I have you not
got that? Okay? Because if that happens to you and
your life is in danger, and say we need your phone,
you go here whatever I mean when the cop pulls
me over, which has happened, I like say whatever here,
(35:10):
take it all okay, Just please leave my children behind. Whatever.
I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay. Nobody
should be above the law. And if they want your phone,
give your phone. But you know what, that's you and
this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree to hand over the full records
about the rope. What we heard in the in the
beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope
around his neck because he didn't want to sort of
disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to
see what had been done. That was the explanation for
(35:52):
the rope of being left.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
You know what, I hear you. And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope, or to ruin
any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(36:18):
but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ
our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over
and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them Darryl
cod are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying
that they were so heavily redacted that they were basically
(36:42):
of no use. What about handing over your phone records
to cops and you redact them.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime. First of all, I want
to go back to the net of the noose. If
I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
(37:13):
but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted
and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,
living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
That the whole reason they got interested in the phone
records to start with is that Smolette said to cops
he was on the phone with his manager at the
time of the attack, and that the manager says he
heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown and they
want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.
(37:50):
They asked Salent for the records about two weeks before
they got a PDF file. Now, police also say their
cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a sixty
second gap in the video where you don't see the
Empire Star, so there's no video of the actual attack.
I've looked at shots of the video and you see
(38:11):
two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is
what is telling to me, Doctor Bethany Marshall. These two
guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very
clear on that. Who take off to Nigeria. The day
after the attack. They work out in his building. At
least one of them does in the gym in Spolette's building,
(38:33):
his apartment building. One of them has been an extra
on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.
I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing
a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.
So you can see they work out all the time.
They take off for Nigeria the day after the attack,
they come back and they're met by the cops, they
(38:53):
are questioned, they are released Dtor Bethany no charges and
after meeting with cop say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.
What does that say to you, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 8 (39:06):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, may have fought, no big deal,
we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,
we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all
(39:28):
blown over. But you know what, they talk to the police.
As I was saying about malingering, the whole story does
not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and so
the police are going to look to Jesse. And I
would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of this?
When people malinger symptoms.
Speaker 7 (39:47):
You know, I was.
Speaker 8 (39:47):
Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it for
a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?
Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants
to prove to the EP of the show that he
is the center of a national news situation. Is he
(40:08):
wanting to take somebody else's role in Empire? You know,
I think that there's a reward there somewhere, and if
you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,
according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid
(40:40):
the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.
This is CBS This Morning anchor John Dickerson. Take a
listen to what they see on the video.
Speaker 10 (40:50):
Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollette. Please say
a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
on the night Smollette says he was beaten. The star
of the TV drama Empire said his masked attackers yelled
racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation.
Speaker 11 (41:13):
Investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images to
provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not considered suspects,
but the police do want to know who they are
and what they were doing when Smollette says he was attacked.
Speaker 12 (41:28):
Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
then appear to get up and follow him, although the
three of them are never seen on camera together. About
a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smolette
(41:49):
returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.
The rope was untied but still on his neck when
police arrived forty five minutes after he says he was
a tact.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
The truth about Jesse Smollette, I think I already know
the truth now. This is from the director Gagan Reehill
and raw or Aw, the production company behind several Netflix
hits such as Don't f With Cats and The Tender Swindler.
(42:22):
This is what the director says, and I quote this
story is a thrilling ride. A ride. This was a
court case with evil intent on the behalf of Smollett
to stir up hatred and more ill will across our country.
(42:45):
He goes on to say, I wanted this documentary to
balance their competing narratives. In other words, nobody's getting the
same story because they're listening to Smollette lie end quote,
use their color full testimonies translation lies more lies than Smollett.
(43:08):
But more than that quote. I want this film to
speak to the particular moment of rapid cultural change. I
don't even know what he's talking about. That said, I
do know the truth that came out in court under oath,
under threat of perjury. Netflix documentary or Netflix documentary or
(43:35):
Netflix documentary. I know what happened in court. Smellett did it.
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye,
Host
Nancy Grace
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