August 29, 2025 • 41 mins
Luigi Mangione has been indicted on first-degree murder in furtherance of terrorism. He is also charged with two counts of murder in the second degree, with one of those counts also denoting Mangione murder of CEO Brian Thompson as an act of terrorism. Now the Federal government is seeking the death penalty.
Attorney General Pam Bondi directed federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty which marks the first such directive by the Trump administration. New York, where the murder occurred, has abolished the death penalty, and Mangione's lawyers are attempting to block the federal death penalty pursuit, arguing the move is a political stunt.
Police questioned Mangione's mom the day before he was captured. She told officers that the shooting 'might be something that she could see him doing.'
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY:
- Matt Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States"
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective, former member FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast, https://thegoldshieldshow.com, FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel, website: www.ChristinaAguayoNews.Com, Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNews
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, it's Friday night and it is special. In the
last days, the US Attorney General Pam Bondi directs prosecutors
to seek the death penalty for Luigi Mangioni. Bondi states
Luigi Mangioni's murderer of Brian Thompson, an innocent man and
father of two young children, was a premeditated, cold blooded
(00:31):
assassination that shocked America. After careful consideration, I have directed
federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty in this case
and make America safe again.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. I've got a pretty
good idea why Bondi is directing federal prosecutors to seek
the death penalty on Luigi mangione Growing up with a
silver spoon, no tea, silverspoons in his mouth, he guns
down a healthcare boss in broad daylight on the streets
(01:08):
of Manhattan. Let me jog your memory.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Earlier this morning, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,
mail on firearms charges at this time, he is believed
to be our person of interest.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western
Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
health boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and the New
(01:49):
York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded
execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a
silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what
Elle was looking for in the case.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
But is it him?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Does he match this description? According to a McDonald's employee,
he does?
Speaker 4 (02:14):
What else do we know?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Where?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
But the manhunt across the nation.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Going in every direction from Manhattan, divers, drones, you name it,
all used employed to find the killer of the health
care boss.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
What led to the detainment of this guy?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
We also understand that in his possession is a New
Jersey ID, a fake ID, possibly used to check into
that Manhattan hostile press conference.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
A man was taken into custody today at ALTUDA Pennsylvania
this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a mail twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
(03:22):
of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion
based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including
the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners at
the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
(03:44):
members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,
one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released
a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture
was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive
video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for
the public's health and identifying this subject, and the public responded.
(04:04):
Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each
tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional
photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided
these photos to numerous media outlets. Local, national, and international
outlets released the photo via television, print, social media, and
online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject
(04:29):
and called local law enforcement.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
Members of the.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Altoona Police Department responded to the call and based on
their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still
active and ongoing. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7 (04:43):
I had a couple.
Speaker 8 (04:44):
Questions about document that he was found in possession with.
Can you go a little bit more in depth about
those motivations that you mentioned. Was that CEO specifically named
in that document? Was there anything more about in wanting
to go after others?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Also in that doctor?
Speaker 8 (05:00):
Was there any indication that explains us how the level
of detail that he went into killing him, like, is.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
There anything That document is currently in the possession of
the Altoona Police Department as part of their investigation, but
just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that
there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,
but it does seem that he has some some ill
will toward corporate America.
Speaker 9 (05:23):
Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that
we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous
amount of video, and once again with your help and
the public SELP. So I couldn't. I really couldn't put
it on one thing, but if I had to, it
would be the release of that photograph from the media.
We had divers in the ward yesterday that came up
negative results the passport. We don't believe that he was
(05:50):
planning on doing any traveling at this time. We don't
think he at this point our investigation, we don't think
he was trying to flee the country.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Person at McDonald's where they buying, What were they doing.
Speaker 10 (05:58):
At that exact comport?
Speaker 5 (05:59):
It was an employe at the McDonald's. But what was
the suspect, Dudes, he was sitting there reading neda from.
Speaker 9 (06:05):
The New York Post.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
I was just hoping to get more details on the
capture itself. Did he put up a fight? Did he
say through the cops? And we've also recorded that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
He published online anti health KA industry rantings can you share.
Speaker 8 (06:18):
With us some of the services that he posted.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
We're still working through his social media and we're going
to do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,
he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,
but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
this together. We're still going to be working very hard
to bring this to a successful conclusion.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
A ghost gun, a silence sir, fake IDs, and a
handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Like our guy. But what else led to this.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Detainment in Pennsylvania? Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us are
now psychoanalyst out of La, author of deal Breaker. You
can see her on Peacott and Doctor Bethany. The theory
that the assassin meant to scatter toy monopoly money.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Over the dead body.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
That tells me a lot about him. He's got a
lot of time sitting in somebody's basement, thinking and plotting.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
It almost rules out a day job in my mind.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
But that said, we know he's white male, we know
he's got money and a guy that can fund himself
cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan. We also
know that while he may have meant to scatter fake
monopoly money all over the dead body, sending a message
(07:42):
as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that, he
didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave behind
a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it. He
left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left behind
a burner phone. If they can break into that burner
flow burner found that is going to be a tremendous
(08:02):
source of evidence.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
But he forgot to.
Speaker 9 (08:05):
Strow the money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional.
In the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional,
meaning he has been thinking about this for a long
long time. When I have a patient like this come
into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at
one person and that is all they can talk about.
(08:26):
What they would like to do, what the person's look
on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With
obsessional paranoia, the person the person sort of alleviates their
rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.
But I also think although he obsessed about this and
(08:47):
planned it out. This was his first crime. He did
not he did not think about what it would be
like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.
He didn't have time to plan them. He didn't have
time to scatter the monopoly money.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this
area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,
the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's
his actual cell phone. But the reports we're hearing is
it's a burner phone. Lauren Conlin, Yes, no burner phone,
actual phone.
Speaker 11 (09:22):
Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
What I'm coming to you about is the phone? What
an idiot? I think. Bethany's right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
you know, like, well, let me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Think of a good one. Robert Blake remember when he
and his henchman got.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
His bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
They had this extensive to do list.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Very often you can catch the purp because of their
to do list and they're over planning, right, But the
burner phone, they're really hard to break into. Do you
remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial. They had to bring
in the secret Service to crack his phone.
Speaker 12 (10:02):
Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone
and who knows what's on there. Yeah, he could just
use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
out and knows Berner Phones and what to use him for.
There may not be a lot on there, but the
ability to break in there might not be that difficult
because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi
(10:23):
are and the limited amount of information that'll be on.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've
got so far. Talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up
with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Dr Bethnany, He's not worried. Look at him. He has
practiced this over and over and over.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
He has been watching the victim like a hawk from
the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows
the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
he knew that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That started at eight o'clock.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He knew that the victim was going over ahead of time.
From the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he
was set to speak that morning. Now, all of this
surveillance video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool,
and calculated.
Speaker 9 (11:26):
This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the
panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,
he would have known that there were surveillance cameras all
along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call. That
makes me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper
where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,
(11:50):
or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and
that's why he's on that phone.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifty minutes before the shooting,
not a fifteen minute phone call.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (12:02):
Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So, Doctor Bethany, But I agree with what you were saying,
But he did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost
as if he's checking in. Because I'm wondering is he
speaking or is he listening? I can't tell plus his
mouth is covered right there, and I'll tell you why
Jason Ocean is joining me Renow defense attorney joining us
out of this jurisdiction.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Who also, you and I have walked this track before.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Together at Jason Ocean. So back around court, TV and
HLN days.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if he was listening
to something and not talking.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I prosecuted an arson murder, and just before.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
The guy brined his mansion down and tried to fake
that his wife died in the fire from smoking elation.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
He called and checked the weather channel.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the
weather channel to find out if it was going to
rain the day he was setting the house on fire.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So for all I know.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was And
now I know he was not on a flight.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I know he was on a bus.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or
I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,
how do I know if he was just checking something
or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,
what if he called someone it was a quick callment,
Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking. I
(13:35):
just passed Starbucks. It could be that it could be anything.
Speaker 13 (13:39):
Anti I think the theory that, you know, the potential
theory that he was directed by someone and that's why
he was on the phone is fascinating.
Speaker 12 (13:47):
And then also.
Speaker 13 (13:47):
Struck by that his lack of knowledge, you know, the
overall aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think
he didn't plan for that. That was the one thing
in this seemingly meticulous plan that was that was not done.
But that phone call could be very critical if we
can find out if it was an incoming or an
outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the
(14:11):
ability to bust that phone up.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
cracks it. You'd think it would be easy, because.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be
a Victim, I found out that about I think it
was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number
of people still use the factory code that they had
on answer machines, or they do one two three four
(14:41):
is their code or one one one one, or of course,
sixty nine, sixty nine, that's now tried and true, or
let's see lucky numbers that they come up with, like
seven seven seven seven.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It's so predictable.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,
and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cellphone
the burner. You know how long it took them to
crack Alex Murdock's final They had to bring in the
secret Service to do.
Speaker 14 (15:12):
It, exactly. Mean, if you look, that phone call could
have been something as simple as he called him sick
to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it.
Who you can call it? Six forty five am is
a very small group of people, So it could have
been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that
morning and wants to make sure that's smart.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's smart smart.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Wait, you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, who are
you going to call at six o'clock.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
In the morning? Okay?
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Not very many people?
Speaker 14 (15:42):
Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or
a sister or something like that, you're going to scare
the day like that of them. So it's got to
be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message
for somebody because you know they're not at work at
you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested
in that as I am his other messages. What he
wrote on the shellcasing, the threat before the murder, the
(16:04):
fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,
poem state, why not shoot him at any red light
going to work?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,
I want to tell everybody. At first we were led
to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Deny defend deposed.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We now know it was written with black sharp which
tells me even more. Do you know that you can
get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I
think police are going to need a handwriting sample when
they've got fingerprints in DNA, but you never know what
might click with the jury.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
What about it? Cheryl?
Speaker 14 (16:49):
One hundred percent? But again, it tells you he took
extra time to leave a message on shellcasings. He took
extra time to get the monopoly money. That's a message.
Shooting him in New York City the morning of that
meeting was a message he could have shot him anytime
in his home stated a red light, but he didn't.
This is somebody that was a laser focus about his
(17:13):
intended target and his motive.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Period crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
The US Attorney General directs federal prosecutors to seek the
death penalty for Luigi MANGIONI.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You want to know why, I'll tell you why.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
First, I want to go out to our dive expert.
I'm curious about the in the lake at Central Park.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
The New York Police Department dive team is called into
action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.
The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,
in a body of water known as the Lake near
Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central
Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee
bike into the park. Police have not yet recovered the
(18:24):
distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear if
officers recovered any evidence from the water.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,
also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.
He is an expert diver and he is actually a
dive instructor.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Well.
Speaker 10 (18:47):
I do a lot of police diving also and just
into emergency diving, and so I'm looking at this on
Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
makes it a lot easier than having to go into
the ocean or a great lake or the chestbea bay,
so it makes it a little easier for the divers.
It's also I just looked it up it's only four
to six feet deep, so that also makes a lot
more simple to do a dive operation. But what they
(19:07):
could be doing is they're goulda be looking for anything
that they can find. And one thing that your listeners
and watchers need to understand is anything that exists above
water exists underwater. People use it as a garbage dump.
We find you name it, bikes, washing machines, shopping carts.
So there's a lot of debris. The more people that
are around, the more people use that as a dumping ground.
(19:29):
But there's two things that I imagine they're looking for
just listening to the different news reports and listening to you.
They're looking for the firearm, obviously, but that telephone also,
they're looking for that. You know, those are both very
small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one
of the things that if you find an item like that,
you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the
same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective,
(19:52):
But the one thing we have to keep in mind
is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water
is in air, so they all I can do is
keep it in the air that's recovered underwater, you have
to recover it with the water. If you take it
out of the water, things start to break down relatively quickly.
What I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints if you take
something out of the water, and fingerprints can last for
about a week underwater, so the clock is ticking. But
(20:16):
if you remove whether it's a firearm or the telephone
or any piece of evidence, you're going to want to
take it out of the water and just bring some
of the local water with it and then bring that
to your forensics office and then they're going to drain
the water and then do all the magic that they
do to get the fingerprints off of it.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Okay, Ben Dobwin is joining me.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Not only Dane Professional Services at Virginia Westlingyan, he is
a dive instructor and a police diver. Now, Ben, you
just taught me something I didn't know. Number One, when
items are taken out of the water, you have to
preserve them in preferably the abbiant water, the water in
(20:56):
which they were in, because the moment they get the
it starts to degrade.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
For instance, fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a
hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted
to talk to you about the gun, but I want
to follow up on what.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Dobrain is telling us.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based
on the oil in the body oil water.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Get it. You can explain better than me.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result
of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have
in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,
we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.
We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in
this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon
(21:52):
that has a magazine and nancy. So if you have
a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing
down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
this weapon and it's kind of in a protected space there.
(22:15):
So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
You have this protected space. If you can keep this
in the water that it comes from and take that
into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty
quickly and raise any kind of latent prints that might
be there.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
That's exactly what I'm saying here.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about
you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated and all
of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated this area,
this guy and pay very close than you what I'm
about to say. This guy, if he did this, he
(23:02):
ain't the first person to think about dumping a weapon
into that lake, all right. So they have a herculean
task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this filthy
water where they're going to be using their hands, crawling along.
How many other weapons are in there? Just because you
find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's the firearm that
(23:26):
was used.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Ben, I want to follow up with you on this
is a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when
we come back. But this guy did so much planning then,
But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
twenty acres, I guarantee you he didn't know that it
(23:50):
was just four.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
To six feet deep.
Speaker 10 (23:52):
And I just found that Google And if you go
a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep. So
that is significantly I mean, it's obviously you can dive that.
It just takes a little bit longer to get down
and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.
If they find something, they can just pop their head
out of the water and look at it. And the
what he just said is we've done training dives in
(24:12):
local lakes where we have found multiple guns when we
weren't looking for I mean, we're just doing a training
dive and we found guns. I found a flint lock pistol.
I wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in
a populated era of people think, oh, if I discard
a firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,
you know it's hard to see, but if people are
looking for it, they're gonna find it.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
You know.
Speaker 10 (24:30):
The New York City Police dive team is one of
the most respected in the world. If it's in that
little area there, they're going to find something.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. Also in the last days,
lawyers for Luigimnngioni claim prosecutors illegally obtained his medical records.
Mangoni's defense team is demanding an evidentiary hearing in the matter,
(25:06):
claiming prosecutors compelled ETNA to hand over Mangioni's medical record,
including different diagnoses and specific medical complaints. And they also
claim an assistant DA reviewed some of the files the
Manhattan District Attorney's offices. It requested very limited info from ETNA,
(25:31):
but the company sent over much more additional materials in error,
which means it wasn't the District Attorney's fault. Wow, they're
really splitting hairs now. I wonder if these medical records
can destroy Mangione's defense. Maybe something to do with a
(25:52):
bad back or lack thereof. What do we know about
the Mangione case? Apt in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona
area at a local McDonald's. He has now been arrested
on charges relating to a gun, sources telling us it
was a so called ghost gun, a gun that has
(26:15):
no serial number that is often put together with a kit.
The parts of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a
ghost gun and a silencer, along with a hand written
manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective
thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.
Tom again, thank you for being with us. We've learned
a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like
it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We
(26:56):
are now understanding that is not made silence, sir, that
this is a weapon that is often used by veterinarians
to put down that's nice word for it, animals.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
The magazine is in the grip. And when many people
thought that.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,
which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we
now know it may be a bolt action that has
to be manually cycled after each shot.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That changes things.
Speaker 12 (27:29):
Tom Smith, Yes, it does because now he knows he's
proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it,
he's going to have to chamber around. And if I
could show you real quick, this is a glock, not
the same weapon that was used, but but similar functioning.
Every time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click
it like this in order to chamber around to fire
(27:49):
the next round. And the thing about him is he
knows the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not
a surprise to him. So he fires around, has to
clear it, fire another round, clear to chamber around each time,
and he knows the weapon and he knows that he's
coming and has to do that, and that's why he
stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever dealt
(28:11):
with in New York City, what's a weapons jams, they
throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how this
weapon is being used.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
because in the movies you always see the person jam
the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
(28:41):
gun range.
Speaker 12 (28:43):
Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon, because,
like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing
this whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I want you to explain one more time for novices
out there about the bolt action. We now don't believe
the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it was a
bolt action that has to be manually recycled after every shot.
Could you explain that and demonstrate one more time, please, Tom.
Speaker 12 (29:15):
Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
port is in here. Just like you mentioned, it's at
the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
and do the same thing over and over again. So,
like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
(29:36):
he's used and what he used to do to fire.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to
bring everybody back in in just a second, But Tom,
another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used
by veterinarians to put down animals is it has a
very quiet shot, very quiet it shot. And the gun
(30:01):
we're talking about has a long as we saw, could
you hold yours up again as a very long barrel
like that? This one even seemed a little bit longer
than yours. And that can be confused because it looks
like a silencer, but it's not.
Speaker 12 (30:21):
It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
have more of an angle of your target in front
of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
of how this weapon is used and what it needs
to do to fight.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Is this gun is a specialized gun. This guy practiced
and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a
gun and then use.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It the next day.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
That did not happen. Think of the mindset here. This
is a gun he brought with him on a bus.
Didn't got on a plane because he couldn't get through
Tsa with a gun.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
For Pea and.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
The airlines know who you are, they have your picture,
they have you every three feet in the airport.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
He didn't want that.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
He wanted to travel with his gun.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What criminal that's.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Practiced and practiced and planned and plan was to use
an aligen gun.
Speaker 12 (31:17):
Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
on it. So it could be very benign in the
in identifying it. And that's why he paid.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
What I'm saying, doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy
did not just go into a gun shop and buy
the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
staking out the scene the moment he got there November
twenty four to ten pm.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
He didn't go to bed. He went to this look
where the forum was going to be held. He didn't
buy a new gun.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after
practicing for hours on end.
Speaker 9 (32:14):
This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,
He has disposable money, and he had access to a
weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who
goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and
tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.
This is a man who knows this weapon. This is
also a man who has researched where this CEO is
(32:37):
going to be.
Speaker 15 (32:38):
Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
a silencer being used or a modern version of a
rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
Chief Detective Joseph Kenney says they are looking into the
use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
(33:01):
Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
doesn't cause a large noise.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Is not just this moment.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
man hours like this.
Speaker 16 (33:36):
Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
through video from the bus station in town and to
(33:57):
others along the route to New York City. Officers are
working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
He noticed, the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,
I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Let me just say that.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
just like he used a fake ID when he checked
into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
(34:36):
Lauren Conlin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime
crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
with the receptionist.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
We now know that to check into that hostel, and
it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.
Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
some ID, look at them. The next time they ask
you that, they look back up at your face, right. So, yeah,
there was a little flirtation. You can see him smiling
right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia
(35:10):
on that mouth right there. But that's another can of worms, Lauren.
So I don't know that the clerk was flirting with him.
She very well may have said, pulled down your mask.
I got to make an id. I mean this is
not the rints, okay, right.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Right, And you're correct, Nancy.
Speaker 11 (35:28):
I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
cameras outside of the hostel as well, So my understanding
is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,
(35:49):
of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.
I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside
to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they
do any sort of talking about what they know to
anyone but the NYPD, but also that they turned over
footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is going
(36:11):
through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,
it's gonna take some time. This is not going to
happen overnight, but I think there's going to be a
lot more and stills being released of this guy and
what he did during his time in New York before
the shooting.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.
Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
Speaker 14 (36:32):
Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
And that's why I think again, they are focused on Atlanta.
They know where the bus originated, they know what he
sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.
(36:54):
The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,
which means three possible shawecasing, So that gun either jam
and we have an unspent or we have three spent,
which means he missed one.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and
a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
detainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst. Way in,
doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Who is he?
Speaker 9 (37:34):
Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He
knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because
he's sending a message. If he did it at a
traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not
send the message, the scribbling on the ammunition. He caught
that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing
(37:59):
words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.
I am going to guess that he had a family
member who has denied care and because of that denied care,
the family member died and he cannot get over it.
So this is although he looks like a street thug
(38:19):
on you know, at first glance, he is not.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
like his fingerprints and DNA.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Joe Scott, Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.
And here's one other thing. I did a little digging
one of this this weapon that they keep referring to,
that's the veterinarian euthanasia weapon they believe might be a
what's referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My
research revealed that there are essentially, I think either four
(39:05):
or five locations in the metro area where these can
be specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe
that that's what this is and that he transported it.
I think you're on the money here relative to getting
on a bus with this thing. He may have picked
it up down there at some point in time. And
(39:25):
it's not a very efficient weapon for doing the task
that he was trying to do, so I don't know,
maybe he was trying to you know, he's not going
to draw attention to himself, like when you buy a
suppressor separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very
efficient because you have to you lose your site picture
every time you have to rotate that bolt on the
(39:47):
back of that weapon, which is what he's doing. He's
spending it. I think that many of the answers that
we're looking for are probably going to rest as well.
And this is something that we will hear a lot about,
I believe. With United Healthcare and their chief security officer,
who was actually hired back in August of twenty twenty three,
(40:07):
I want to know what she knows. I want to
know what her assets know within that business. Are there
letters that have been written, are their lawsuits that have
been filed relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare
claims that may have been blown off or maybe they
didn't receive what they wanted. But trust me, the security
(40:28):
apparatus within that company is going to be working.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
On and of course along with tot Mom Casey Anthony
called Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own
documentary called Who Is Luigi Mangioni? Do I care who
he is? What I care about is did he gun
down an unarmed man in broad daylight?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
That's what I care about.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
According to the ad for HBO Max Luigimi Andngoni's Success
Driven Life? What success driven life? He was bumming on
the Hawaii beaches? Okay, Luigi Minjioni's success driven life? I
don't believe that takes a radical detour amid accusations of
(41:14):
killing an insurance CEO. Now his secretive world snaps into focus.
I don't give a flying fig about his secretive world.
What I care about is Canadas State prove murder because
now the fans are seeking the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
We wait as justice. I'm false.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Goodbye,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, it's Friday night and it is special. In the
last days, the US Attorney General Pam Bondi directs prosecutors
to seek the death penalty for Luigi Mangioni. Bondi states
Luigi Mangioni's murderer of Brian Thompson, an innocent man and
father of two young children, was a premeditated, cold blooded
(00:31):
assassination that shocked America. After careful consideration, I have directed
federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty in this case
and make America safe again.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. I've got a pretty
good idea why Bondi is directing federal prosecutors to seek
the death penalty on Luigi mangione Growing up with a
silver spoon, no tea, silverspoons in his mouth, he guns
down a healthcare boss in broad daylight on the streets
(01:08):
of Manhattan. Let me jog your memory.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Earlier this morning, in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,
mail on firearms charges at this time, he is believed
to be our person of interest.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western
Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
health boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and the New
(01:49):
York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded
execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a
silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what
Elle was looking for in the case.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
But is it him?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Does he match this description? According to a McDonald's employee,
he does?
Speaker 4 (02:14):
What else do we know?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Where?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
But the manhunt across the nation.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Going in every direction from Manhattan, divers, drones, you name it,
all used employed to find the killer of the health
care boss.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
What led to the detainment of this guy?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
We also understand that in his possession is a New
Jersey ID, a fake ID, possibly used to check into
that Manhattan hostile press conference.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Listen.
Speaker 5 (03:00):
A man was taken into custody today at ALTUDA Pennsylvania
this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a mail twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
(03:22):
of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion
based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including
the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners at
the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
(03:44):
members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,
one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released
a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture
was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive
video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for
the public's health and identifying this subject, and the public responded.
(04:04):
Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each
tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional
photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided
these photos to numerous media outlets. Local, national, and international
outlets released the photo via television, print, social media, and
online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject
(04:29):
and called local law enforcement.
Speaker 6 (04:31):
Members of the.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Altoona Police Department responded to the call and based on
their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still
active and ongoing. Thank you very much.
Speaker 7 (04:43):
I had a couple.
Speaker 8 (04:44):
Questions about document that he was found in possession with.
Can you go a little bit more in depth about
those motivations that you mentioned. Was that CEO specifically named
in that document? Was there anything more about in wanting
to go after others?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Also in that doctor?
Speaker 8 (05:00):
Was there any indication that explains us how the level
of detail that he went into killing him, like, is.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
There anything That document is currently in the possession of
the Altoona Police Department as part of their investigation, but
just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that
there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,
but it does seem that he has some some ill
will toward corporate America.
Speaker 9 (05:23):
Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.
Speaker 5 (05:27):
There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that
we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous
amount of video, and once again with your help and
the public SELP. So I couldn't. I really couldn't put
it on one thing, but if I had to, it
would be the release of that photograph from the media.
We had divers in the ward yesterday that came up
negative results the passport. We don't believe that he was
(05:50):
planning on doing any traveling at this time. We don't
think he at this point our investigation, we don't think
he was trying to flee the country.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Person at McDonald's where they buying, What were they doing.
Speaker 10 (05:58):
At that exact comport?
Speaker 5 (05:59):
It was an employe at the McDonald's. But what was
the suspect, Dudes, he was sitting there reading neda from.
Speaker 9 (06:05):
The New York Post.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
I was just hoping to get more details on the
capture itself. Did he put up a fight? Did he
say through the cops? And we've also recorded that.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
He published online anti health KA industry rantings can you share.
Speaker 8 (06:18):
With us some of the services that he posted.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
We're still working through his social media and we're going
to do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,
he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,
but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
this together. We're still going to be working very hard
to bring this to a successful conclusion.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
A ghost gun, a silence sir, fake IDs, and a
handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Like our guy. But what else led to this.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Detainment in Pennsylvania? Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us are
now psychoanalyst out of La, author of deal Breaker. You
can see her on Peacott and Doctor Bethany. The theory
that the assassin meant to scatter toy monopoly money.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Over the dead body.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
That tells me a lot about him. He's got a
lot of time sitting in somebody's basement, thinking and plotting.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
It almost rules out a day job in my mind.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
But that said, we know he's white male, we know
he's got money and a guy that can fund himself
cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan. We also
know that while he may have meant to scatter fake
monopoly money all over the dead body, sending a message
(07:42):
as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that, he
didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave behind
a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it. He
left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left behind
a burner phone. If they can break into that burner
flow burner found that is going to be a tremendous
(08:02):
source of evidence.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
But he forgot to.
Speaker 9 (08:05):
Strow the money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional.
In the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional,
meaning he has been thinking about this for a long
long time. When I have a patient like this come
into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at
one person and that is all they can talk about.
(08:26):
What they would like to do, what the person's look
on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With
obsessional paranoia, the person the person sort of alleviates their
rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.
But I also think although he obsessed about this and
(08:47):
planned it out. This was his first crime. He did
not he did not think about what it would be
like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.
He didn't have time to plan them. He didn't have
time to scatter the monopoly money.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this
area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,
the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's
his actual cell phone. But the reports we're hearing is
it's a burner phone. Lauren Conlin, Yes, no burner phone,
actual phone.
Speaker 11 (09:22):
Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
What I'm coming to you about is the phone? What
an idiot? I think. Bethany's right.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
you know, like, well, let me.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Think of a good one. Robert Blake remember when he
and his henchman got.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
His bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
They had this extensive to do list.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Very often you can catch the purp because of their
to do list and they're over planning, right, But the
burner phone, they're really hard to break into. Do you
remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial. They had to bring
in the secret Service to crack his phone.
Speaker 12 (10:02):
Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone
and who knows what's on there. Yeah, he could just
use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
out and knows Berner Phones and what to use him for.
There may not be a lot on there, but the
ability to break in there might not be that difficult
because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi
(10:23):
are and the limited amount of information that'll be on.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've
got so far. Talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up
with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Dr Bethnany, He's not worried. Look at him. He has
practiced this over and over and over.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
He has been watching the victim like a hawk from
the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows
the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
he knew that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That started at eight o'clock.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He knew that the victim was going over ahead of time.
From the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he
was set to speak that morning. Now, all of this
surveillance video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool,
and calculated.
Speaker 9 (11:26):
This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the
panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,
he would have known that there were surveillance cameras all
along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call. That
makes me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper
where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,
(11:50):
or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and
that's why he's on that phone.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifty minutes before the shooting,
not a fifteen minute phone call.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (12:02):
Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
So, Doctor Bethany, But I agree with what you were saying,
But he did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost
as if he's checking in. Because I'm wondering is he
speaking or is he listening? I can't tell plus his
mouth is covered right there, and I'll tell you why
Jason Ocean is joining me Renow defense attorney joining us
out of this jurisdiction.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Who also, you and I have walked this track before.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Together at Jason Ocean. So back around court, TV and
HLN days.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if he was listening
to something and not talking.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I prosecuted an arson murder, and just before.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
The guy brined his mansion down and tried to fake
that his wife died in the fire from smoking elation.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
He called and checked the weather channel.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the
weather channel to find out if it was going to
rain the day he was setting the house on fire.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So for all I know.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was And
now I know he was not on a flight.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I know he was on a bus.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or
I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,
how do I know if he was just checking something
or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,
what if he called someone it was a quick callment,
Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking. I
(13:35):
just passed Starbucks. It could be that it could be anything.
Speaker 13 (13:39):
Anti I think the theory that, you know, the potential
theory that he was directed by someone and that's why
he was on the phone is fascinating.
Speaker 12 (13:47):
And then also.
Speaker 13 (13:47):
Struck by that his lack of knowledge, you know, the
overall aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think
he didn't plan for that. That was the one thing
in this seemingly meticulous plan that was that was not done.
But that phone call could be very critical if we
can find out if it was an incoming or an
outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the
(14:11):
ability to bust that phone up.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
cracks it. You'd think it would be easy, because.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be
a Victim, I found out that about I think it
was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number
of people still use the factory code that they had
on answer machines, or they do one two three four
(14:41):
is their code or one one one one, or of course,
sixty nine, sixty nine, that's now tried and true, or
let's see lucky numbers that they come up with, like
seven seven seven seven.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
It's so predictable.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,
and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cellphone
the burner. You know how long it took them to
crack Alex Murdock's final They had to bring in the
secret Service to do.
Speaker 14 (15:12):
It, exactly. Mean, if you look, that phone call could
have been something as simple as he called him sick
to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it.
Who you can call it? Six forty five am is
a very small group of people, So it could have
been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that
morning and wants to make sure that's smart.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's smart smart.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Wait, you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, who are
you going to call at six o'clock.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
In the morning? Okay?
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Not very many people?
Speaker 14 (15:42):
Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or
a sister or something like that, you're going to scare
the day like that of them. So it's got to
be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message
for somebody because you know they're not at work at
you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested
in that as I am his other messages. What he
wrote on the shellcasing, the threat before the murder, the
(16:04):
fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,
poem state, why not shoot him at any red light
going to work?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,
I want to tell everybody. At first we were led
to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Deny defend deposed.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We now know it was written with black sharp which
tells me even more. Do you know that you can
get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I
think police are going to need a handwriting sample when
they've got fingerprints in DNA, but you never know what
might click with the jury.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
What about it? Cheryl?
Speaker 14 (16:49):
One hundred percent? But again, it tells you he took
extra time to leave a message on shellcasings. He took
extra time to get the monopoly money. That's a message.
Shooting him in New York City the morning of that
meeting was a message he could have shot him anytime
in his home stated a red light, but he didn't.
This is somebody that was a laser focus about his
(17:13):
intended target and his motive.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Period crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
The US Attorney General directs federal prosecutors to seek the
death penalty for Luigi MANGIONI.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
You want to know why, I'll tell you why.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
First, I want to go out to our dive expert.
I'm curious about the in the lake at Central Park.
Speaker 7 (18:02):
The New York Police Department dive team is called into
action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.
The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,
in a body of water known as the Lake near
Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central
Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee
bike into the park. Police have not yet recovered the
(18:24):
distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear if
officers recovered any evidence from the water.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,
also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.
He is an expert diver and he is actually a
dive instructor.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Well.
Speaker 10 (18:47):
I do a lot of police diving also and just
into emergency diving, and so I'm looking at this on
Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
makes it a lot easier than having to go into
the ocean or a great lake or the chestbea bay,
so it makes it a little easier for the divers.
It's also I just looked it up it's only four
to six feet deep, so that also makes a lot
more simple to do a dive operation. But what they
(19:07):
could be doing is they're goulda be looking for anything
that they can find. And one thing that your listeners
and watchers need to understand is anything that exists above
water exists underwater. People use it as a garbage dump.
We find you name it, bikes, washing machines, shopping carts.
So there's a lot of debris. The more people that
are around, the more people use that as a dumping ground.
(19:29):
But there's two things that I imagine they're looking for
just listening to the different news reports and listening to you.
They're looking for the firearm, obviously, but that telephone also,
they're looking for that. You know, those are both very
small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one
of the things that if you find an item like that,
you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the
same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective,
(19:52):
But the one thing we have to keep in mind
is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water
is in air, so they all I can do is
keep it in the air that's recovered underwater, you have
to recover it with the water. If you take it
out of the water, things start to break down relatively quickly.
What I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints if you take
something out of the water, and fingerprints can last for
about a week underwater, so the clock is ticking. But
(20:16):
if you remove whether it's a firearm or the telephone
or any piece of evidence, you're going to want to
take it out of the water and just bring some
of the local water with it and then bring that
to your forensics office and then they're going to drain
the water and then do all the magic that they
do to get the fingerprints off of it.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Okay, Ben Dobwin is joining me.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Not only Dane Professional Services at Virginia Westlingyan, he is
a dive instructor and a police diver. Now, Ben, you
just taught me something I didn't know. Number One, when
items are taken out of the water, you have to
preserve them in preferably the abbiant water, the water in
(20:56):
which they were in, because the moment they get the
it starts to degrade.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
For instance, fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a
hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted
to talk to you about the gun, but I want
to follow up on what.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Dobrain is telling us.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based
on the oil in the body oil water.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Get it. You can explain better than me.
Speaker 6 (21:29):
Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result
of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have
in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,
we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.
We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in
this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon
(21:52):
that has a magazine and nancy. So if you have
a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing
down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
this weapon and it's kind of in a protected space there.
(22:15):
So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
You have this protected space. If you can keep this
in the water that it comes from and take that
into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty
quickly and raise any kind of latent prints that might
be there.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
That's exactly what I'm saying here.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about
you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated and all
of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated this area,
this guy and pay very close than you what I'm
about to say. This guy, if he did this, he
(23:02):
ain't the first person to think about dumping a weapon
into that lake, all right. So they have a herculean
task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this filthy
water where they're going to be using their hands, crawling along.
How many other weapons are in there? Just because you
find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's the firearm that
(23:26):
was used.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Ben, I want to follow up with you on this
is a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when
we come back. But this guy did so much planning then,
But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
twenty acres, I guarantee you he didn't know that it
(23:50):
was just four.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
To six feet deep.
Speaker 10 (23:52):
And I just found that Google And if you go
a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep. So
that is significantly I mean, it's obviously you can dive that.
It just takes a little bit longer to get down
and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.
If they find something, they can just pop their head
out of the water and look at it. And the
what he just said is we've done training dives in
(24:12):
local lakes where we have found multiple guns when we
weren't looking for I mean, we're just doing a training
dive and we found guns. I found a flint lock pistol.
I wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in
a populated era of people think, oh, if I discard
a firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,
you know it's hard to see, but if people are
looking for it, they're gonna find it.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
You know.
Speaker 10 (24:30):
The New York City Police dive team is one of
the most respected in the world. If it's in that
little area there, they're going to find something.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. Also in the last days,
lawyers for Luigimnngioni claim prosecutors illegally obtained his medical records.
Mangoni's defense team is demanding an evidentiary hearing in the matter,
(25:06):
claiming prosecutors compelled ETNA to hand over Mangioni's medical record,
including different diagnoses and specific medical complaints. And they also
claim an assistant DA reviewed some of the files the
Manhattan District Attorney's offices. It requested very limited info from ETNA,
(25:31):
but the company sent over much more additional materials in error,
which means it wasn't the District Attorney's fault. Wow, they're
really splitting hairs now. I wonder if these medical records
can destroy Mangione's defense. Maybe something to do with a
(25:52):
bad back or lack thereof. What do we know about
the Mangione case? Apt in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona
area at a local McDonald's. He has now been arrested
on charges relating to a gun, sources telling us it
was a so called ghost gun, a gun that has
(26:15):
no serial number that is often put together with a kit.
The parts of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a
ghost gun and a silencer, along with a hand written
manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective
thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.
Tom again, thank you for being with us. We've learned
a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like
it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We
(26:56):
are now understanding that is not made silence, sir, that
this is a weapon that is often used by veterinarians
to put down that's nice word for it, animals.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
The magazine is in the grip. And when many people
thought that.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,
which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we
now know it may be a bolt action that has
to be manually cycled after each shot.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That changes things.
Speaker 12 (27:29):
Tom Smith, Yes, it does because now he knows he's
proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it,
he's going to have to chamber around. And if I
could show you real quick, this is a glock, not
the same weapon that was used, but but similar functioning.
Every time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click
it like this in order to chamber around to fire
(27:49):
the next round. And the thing about him is he
knows the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not
a surprise to him. So he fires around, has to
clear it, fire another round, clear to chamber around each time,
and he knows the weapon and he knows that he's
coming and has to do that, and that's why he
stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever dealt
(28:11):
with in New York City, what's a weapons jams, they
throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how this
weapon is being used.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
because in the movies you always see the person jam
the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
(28:41):
gun range.
Speaker 12 (28:43):
Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon, because,
like I said, there's a big difference when you're viewing
this whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I want you to explain one more time for novices
out there about the bolt action. We now don't believe
the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it was a
bolt action that has to be manually recycled after every shot.
Could you explain that and demonstrate one more time, please, Tom.
Speaker 12 (29:15):
Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
port is in here. Just like you mentioned, it's at
the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
and do the same thing over and over again. So,
like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
(29:36):
he's used and what he used to do to fire.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to
bring everybody back in in just a second, But Tom,
another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used
by veterinarians to put down animals is it has a
very quiet shot, very quiet it shot. And the gun
(30:01):
we're talking about has a long as we saw, could
you hold yours up again as a very long barrel
like that? This one even seemed a little bit longer
than yours. And that can be confused because it looks
like a silencer, but it's not.
Speaker 12 (30:21):
It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
have more of an angle of your target in front
of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
of how this weapon is used and what it needs
to do to fight.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Is this gun is a specialized gun. This guy practiced
and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a
gun and then use.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It the next day.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
That did not happen. Think of the mindset here. This
is a gun he brought with him on a bus.
Didn't got on a plane because he couldn't get through
Tsa with a gun.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
For Pea and.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
The airlines know who you are, they have your picture,
they have you every three feet in the airport.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
He didn't want that.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
He wanted to travel with his gun.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
What criminal that's.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Practiced and practiced and planned and plan was to use
an aligen gun.
Speaker 12 (31:17):
Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
on it. So it could be very benign in the
in identifying it. And that's why he paid.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
What I'm saying, doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy
did not just go into a gun shop and buy
the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
staking out the scene the moment he got there November
twenty four to ten pm.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
He didn't go to bed. He went to this look
where the forum was going to be held. He didn't
buy a new gun.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after
practicing for hours on end.
Speaker 9 (32:14):
This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,
He has disposable money, and he had access to a
weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who
goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and
tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.
This is a man who knows this weapon. This is
also a man who has researched where this CEO is
(32:37):
going to be.
Speaker 15 (32:38):
Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
a silencer being used or a modern version of a
rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
Chief Detective Joseph Kenney says they are looking into the
use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
(33:01):
Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
doesn't cause a large noise.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Is not just this moment.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
man hours like this.
Speaker 16 (33:36):
Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
through video from the bus station in town and to
(33:57):
others along the route to New York City. Officers are
working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
He noticed, the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,
I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Let me just say that.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
just like he used a fake ID when he checked
into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
(34:36):
Lauren Conlin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime
crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
with the receptionist.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
We now know that to check into that hostel, and
it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.
Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
some ID, look at them. The next time they ask
you that, they look back up at your face, right. So, yeah,
there was a little flirtation. You can see him smiling
right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia
(35:10):
on that mouth right there. But that's another can of worms, Lauren.
So I don't know that the clerk was flirting with him.
She very well may have said, pulled down your mask.
I got to make an id. I mean this is
not the rints, okay, right.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Right, And you're correct, Nancy.
Speaker 11 (35:28):
I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
cameras outside of the hostel as well, So my understanding
is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,
(35:49):
of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.
I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside
to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they
do any sort of talking about what they know to
anyone but the NYPD, but also that they turned over
footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is going
(36:11):
through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,
it's gonna take some time. This is not going to
happen overnight, but I think there's going to be a
lot more and stills being released of this guy and
what he did during his time in New York before
the shooting.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.
Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
Speaker 14 (36:32):
Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
And that's why I think again, they are focused on Atlanta.
They know where the bus originated, they know what he
sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.
(36:54):
The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,
which means three possible shawecasing, So that gun either jam
and we have an unspent or we have three spent,
which means he missed one.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and
a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
detainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (37:27):
To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst. Way in,
doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Who is he?
Speaker 9 (37:34):
Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He
knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because
he's sending a message. If he did it at a
traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not
send the message, the scribbling on the ammunition. He caught
that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing
(37:59):
words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.
I am going to guess that he had a family
member who has denied care and because of that denied care,
the family member died and he cannot get over it.
So this is although he looks like a street thug
(38:19):
on you know, at first glance, he is not.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
like his fingerprints and DNA.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
Joe Scott, Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.
And here's one other thing. I did a little digging
one of this this weapon that they keep referring to,
that's the veterinarian euthanasia weapon they believe might be a
what's referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My
research revealed that there are essentially, I think either four
(39:05):
or five locations in the metro area where these can
be specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe
that that's what this is and that he transported it.
I think you're on the money here relative to getting
on a bus with this thing. He may have picked
it up down there at some point in time. And
(39:25):
it's not a very efficient weapon for doing the task
that he was trying to do, so I don't know,
maybe he was trying to you know, he's not going
to draw attention to himself, like when you buy a
suppressor separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very
efficient because you have to you lose your site picture
every time you have to rotate that bolt on the
(39:47):
back of that weapon, which is what he's doing. He's
spending it. I think that many of the answers that
we're looking for are probably going to rest as well.
And this is something that we will hear a lot about,
I believe. With United Healthcare and their chief security officer,
who was actually hired back in August of twenty twenty three,
(40:07):
I want to know what she knows. I want to
know what her assets know within that business. Are there
letters that have been written, are their lawsuits that have
been filed relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare
claims that may have been blown off or maybe they
didn't receive what they wanted. But trust me, the security
(40:28):
apparatus within that company is going to be working.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
On and of course along with tot Mom Casey Anthony
called Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own
documentary called Who Is Luigi Mangioni? Do I care who
he is? What I care about is did he gun
down an unarmed man in broad daylight?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
That's what I care about.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
According to the ad for HBO Max Luigimi Andngoni's Success
Driven Life? What success driven life? He was bumming on
the Hawaii beaches? Okay, Luigi Minjioni's success driven life? I
don't believe that takes a radical detour amid accusations of
(41:14):
killing an insurance CEO. Now his secretive world snaps into focus.
I don't give a flying fig about his secretive world.
What I care about is Canadas State prove murder because
now the fans are seeking the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
We wait as justice. I'm false.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Goodbye,
Host
Nancy Grace
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