December 5, 2025 • 43 mins
Rex Heuermann has been cleared in the strangulation death of Colleen McNamee. The 20 year old was beaten strangled and dumped near the William Floyd Parkway in 1994. DNA testing confirmed Heuermann was not connected with the murder.
The DNA test was conducted following a request by convicted killer John Bittrolff. He was convicted in 2017 of killing McNamee and Rita Tangredi. Her battered body was found in in 1993. Bittrolff tried to pin McNamee’s murder on Heuermann. DNA proved the claim incorrect.
Police arrest prominent New York architect Rex Heuerman in connection with the Gilgo Beach serial killings. Rex Heuerman,59, is charged in multiple deaths of women whose bodies were found buried. These include Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello.
The women's remains were found along Gilgo Beach in Long Island within 500 feet of each other. However, investigators have found a total of eleven bodies but Heuerman is not charged in all. Seven so far. Heuermann claims he is innocent.
Now a judge rules that evidence collected through cutting-edge DNA technology will be admissible at his trial. Prosecutors say the DNA points directly at Rex Heuermann. The technology specializes in extracting nuclear DNA from damaged or hard-to-get samples, such as rootless hair, like those found on six of the victims.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- John Ray - Attorney for family of Shannan Gilbert
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills): Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Deputy Police Commissioner Anthony M. Carter - Suffolk County Police Department
- Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Twitter: @JoScottForensic
- Todd G. Shipley, CFE, CFCE - Cyber crime expert, Author: “Investigating Internet Crimes: An Introduction to Solving Crimes in Cyberspace;" Twitter: @webcase
- Toby Wolson - Forensic Consultant Specializing in DNA, Serology and Bloodstain Pattern Analysis
- Kristin Thorne- Investigative Reporter for WABC Channel 7 Eyewitness News in New York, and Host of Hulu’s true-crime show, “Missing;" @KristinThorne on Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Threads, & LinkedIn
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Rex Hereman.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The name will live forever in infamy, along names like
Ted Bundy, BTK, buying torture, Kill, Dennis Raider, Timothy McVeigh,
Charles Manson. Oh gosh, I could go on. Rex Hereman,
(00:27):
the alleged Long Island serial killer awaiting trial. We know
what he did to his victims, horrific, horrific murderers after horrific,
horrific sex torture while his wife and children were out
of town in a basement dungeon, then burying them so
(00:50):
he could look at their graves every day when he
went to work on Long Island there at Gilgo Beach.
And that is tonight's Friday Night Special and it is
very very special. Oh Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Rex Heureman. Cops say he.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Is the Long Island serial killer. I believe he can
be connected and will be connected to many many other
dead bodies. But for tonight, for our Friday Night Special,
I hope you're.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Sitting down.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
If you look at the faces of all the women
he allegedly murdered one, two, three, four, five, I mean
on and on, five, six, seven and counting all these
women dead at the hands of Rex Hureman.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
What do we know, Nancy?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
As you said, rex Huerman is suspected in and charged
in multiple gruesome murders of young sex workers on Long Island,
but now he has been cleared in the strangulation death
of Colleen McNamee. The twenty year old was beaten, strangled,
and dumped near William Floyd Parkway in nineteen ninety four.
DNA testing cleared Hureman in connection with the murder. Quoting
(02:24):
from the coroner's report, A comparison between cyber Genetics developed
profile Unknown Male A and the DNA profile of rex
Huerman was performed. Assuming that the unknown male A profile
is a mixture without any illegal dropout and strictly based
on possibly on possible genotypes present in the profile, rex
(02:45):
Hueerman is excluded as unknown male A end quote. The
DNA test was conducted following a request by convicted killer
John Mittrolf. He was convicted in twenty seventeen of killing
macnamee and Rita Tangridy. Her battered body was found in
nineteen ninety three. Birolf tried to pin McNamee's murder on
(03:07):
Heuerman DNA proved to claim innocent, but in seven other
cases it is DNA evidence linking Heureman, the accused serial killer,
to seven other bodies Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Megan Waterman,
Melissa Barthelmy twenty four, Maureene Brainerd Barnes twenty five, Sandra
Costilla twenty eight, and Amberlin Costello twenty seven. They were
(03:30):
murdered between nineteen ninety three and twenty ten. Huerman, a
Manhattan architect, denied he was behind the gruesome killings. He
has been held since his arrest without bail. Meanwhile, Biterolf,
a fifty eight year old former carpenter, is now serving
fifty years to life for the two murders.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
What exactly do we know about the murders?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Rex Huerman uh very well respected architect behind bars in
the desks of many women, connected in time and location,
many of them sex workers, all of them daughters, mothers, sisters, girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases
in modern American history. Centered on this lonely stretch of
sand on the south shore.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Of Long Island, New York.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Gilg Be just a small community with a big mystery
on its hands. The bodies of fifteen brutally murdered young women,
and there seems to be a pattern, many of them
under five feet tall and less than one hundred pounds,
all dumped in the surrounding dunes over a period of
twenty years.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
There's been some new developments in the gig investigation.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Last night, a.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
Little bit around a thirty PM in the vicinity of
thirty fifth and fifth Avenue in the city, members assigned
to the Gilgo Beach Task Force did place one individual
under arrest.
Speaker 7 (05:14):
After years of searching and fear, years of true crime
hobbyists and their theories, Rex, did you do?
Speaker 8 (05:21):
It?
Speaker 7 (05:21):
Turned out the suspected Gilgo Beach killer was hiding in
plain sight the whole time. Fifty nine year old Rex Huerman,
a suburban husband, father of two, and copsay the.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
A demon that walks among us, a predator that ruined families.
If not for the members of this task force, he
would still be on the streets today, you darn Wright.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
If not for this newly formed task force instituted by
the new elected District Attorney, this guy would still be
walking free. And I guarantee you would still be killing
and I've got sacs to support that theory. You were
just hearing our friends at Crime Watch DLA WABC seven
and the Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison with me
(06:08):
an all star panel. But first I want to go
to a special guest joining us, Anthony M.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Carter.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
This is the Deputy Police commission in Suffolk County. Deputy Commissioner, Man,
it's been a long time coming. I want to hear
your reaction to the arrest of a prominent architect, a father, husband.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
It's kind of hard.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
To believe, but you guys have known for some time
and keeping it on the down low what was happening
because you had intel. This guy was watching the police's
every move.
Speaker 9 (06:43):
Yeah, you know. It all began when Commissioner Harrison took
office here at the Suffolk County Police Department and one
of his top priorities was the Google Beach investigation, and
he had a vision. As you know, the former chief
of Detective is the NYPD former Chief of Department and
the experience that he had. One of the things he
(07:07):
knew is that we needed to get a fresh look
at the case and we needed to get our law
enforcement partners involved, and Commissioner Harrison created this task force,
called it the Google Beach Task Force, and it comprised
of investigators from the State Police, the District Attorney's office,
(07:34):
the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
You know, you cut out on me right there for
a second, but I think you said the FBI. And
in the past, before the Knee regime, there was a
lot of resistance to bringing in the FBI. But when
you've got women dyeing, going missing and now all these
bodies turning up unsolved, Hey, you know what, I'm happy
for all the help I can get every single day.
(07:57):
So I just canngratulate late you and your Commissioner Harrison
on this arrest.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And it was it was a joint effort. You know.
I like that about you and your boss.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You don't try to hog the limelight or say it's
all about you. You really always give the credit to
everyone involved. And you know, standing by right now, Kristin
Thorn is with me, very well known investigative reporter to
be ABC Channel seven eyewitness News host of Hulu's new
crime show Missing Kristin. It's great to have you and
(08:33):
you have stood by you and I both have plodded
around there at the beach looking for clues, trying to
find answers.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Can you believe we've finally got an arrest?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I gotta tell you, Kristin just in time, because
this pos technical legal term was caught on camera at
a cell phone store paying in cash from what I
can tell, for more burner phone minutes. That's his You
want to tell me this guy's out of business? H
E double l n oh, he's still at it, Kristin.
Speaker 8 (09:06):
Yeah, Nancy, And I think that's what's really scary about
this entire situation and why law enforcement decided it was time. Look,
they wanted to have Maureen Brainerd Barnes included in this indictment,
and she is absolutely mentioned in this indictment.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, Well, hold on, lady, back
it up.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
You're going warped four before we can get there. There's
so many bodies.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
But you often hear of the Gilg four, correct me
if I'm on, Kristin, But you are correct. The Gilgo
four were all found in burlap bags, similarly bound naked,
having been sex assaulted, which really links them together right now,
This architect, this dad, this husband, is charged with six counts,
(09:52):
three murders, three felony murder charges, three second degree murder charges,
three victims, but just a matter of days, I believe,
before he's charged with the fourth. Then we got to
deal with all the other dead bodies. But you refer
to a woman, Brainerd Barnes, Marine, Brainerd Barnes, aged twenty five.
(10:13):
He's the prime suspect and she's number four in the
you'll go four? Did I make that clear?
Speaker 10 (10:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, go ahead, yes, And so the.
Speaker 8 (10:21):
Law enforcement knew that they had to get him now
because they were worried about what he may do next.
What he was looking on his phone.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I mean, creepy dude, Kristin, creepy dude. You know, my
daughter and my son, they'll see they're just fifteen. They'll
see somebody and go, okay, that's a creepy dude right there.
Tell us Kristin about this creepy dude going up to
a woman in a park setting in the last couple
of months and completely scheving her out.
Speaker 8 (10:55):
He was walking around and she was in the woods
as a nice wooded park and massive people park, and
she was walking around and he, as she says, came
up behind him and was asking about her boyfriend. And
you know, he's a very big man.
Speaker 11 (11:10):
Six'.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Four, hey what do you put him? At Anthony?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Carter, Guys i'm speaking To Anthony, carter but he is
the deputy Police. COMMISSIONER i, Mean i'm acting Like i'm
sitting here having a cup of coffee with this. Guy
he's been on this from the get, go since he
came in and they formed a new task.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Force how much does this guy? Way what'd you put him?
At two?
Speaker 9 (11:29):
Forty, YEAH i mean he's a very large. INDIVIDUAL i
would definitely, say, yeah right around there around that two
hundred and forty pound. Mark very just very just an,
oversized you, know very large. Man and you know, YEAH i,
MEAN i know everybody's seen that YouTube, video you, know
and where he's towering over the person that's conducting the
(11:51):
interview with.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Him Crime stores With Nancy grace in the last days
In New York State Supreme Court justice rules DAMNING DNA
ev it's tying Rex huerman to the murders of many
(12:12):
women whose remains are found Near Gilgo beach will come
in to. TRIAL i just think about. It these are
the bodies we know, about are there other. BODIES i
would be very surprised if there were. Not Doctor Bessie,
marshall you go up to a woman in a, park
(12:33):
sneak up behind her and, go, hey who's your?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
BOYFRIEND i would run.
Speaker 10 (12:38):
Anthy what it tells me is that he was constantly
trolling for, victims and as a part of trolling for,
victims he had this whole list of. QUESTIONS i, mean
number one would, be, hey do you have a?
Speaker 12 (12:51):
Boyfriend who's your?
Speaker 10 (12:52):
Boyfriend the reason for that is who is he going
to have to separate the woman from is does she have?
Family does she of people who's interested in? Her and if,
so it's going to make it more difficult to kidnap
sex assault. Her, secondly he's looking for women who are quite,
short who are petite women he can easily handle, easily you,
(13:14):
know kidnap and transport from one area to. Another and
then he actually probably has many other aspects of his
victim profile that are going to come out during the
course of this, investigation especially as it pertains to his online.
Searches maybe under h kids, twinks who was one of
the THINGS i?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Heard you, know young, Height, well what was the last
thing you said. Twinks you need to tell everybody what that. Means.
Speaker 10 (13:37):
OKAY a twink is a young man who looks very,
feminine usually, underweight very, small and the old fashioned work
for them as. Twinks so that was one of his
victim profiles that he was looking for with these kinds
of young.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Men, hey, guys this includes, You Kristin, Thorne Toby, Wilson Todd,
Shipley Joe Scott, Morgan Deputy Commissioner, Carter Doctor Bethany, genre
the lawyer for the family Of Shannon. Gilbert she may
not be connected To, hureman we don't know that, yet
but it's because of her that all of these bodies were.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Found she's.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Dead she was killed there On Long, island AND i
believe it hadn't been for her body being, discovered we
may never have found the other. Bodies that, said everybody
jump in whenever you have a. Thought but you hear
Doctor Bethany marshall correctly describing the fact of These google
searches we have just learned.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
About the, police of course knew about it with.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Me Todd, shipley cybercrime, expert author of Investigating internet. Crimes
you can find him at Dark intaeil dot. Info, todd
just follow, up please with what Doctor bethany just said
about this guy's Perverted google.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Searches i'm sure you saying them, right.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
SURE i think what's important is the fact that that
was available once they identified the suspect and they were
able to go To google and subpoena them because they
did over three hundred subpoenas early. On so there's a
lot of information that we still don't know about. Yet
but once they started looking at this, guy was pretty
evident that he was the, one because the searches were
(15:22):
evident looking for information about the. Case he was trying
to find out what the law enforcement agencies knew about
him and what they were divulging online and how much
information was, there and he was doing you, know his
dating and all the other things that go along with
what was. Happening so it was pretty, apparent you, know
once they started looking at his searches that this was
(15:43):
a person of interest for. Them and it's pretty telling
that there's that much information about us when we started
thinking about you, know evidence online and what we.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Do you know, what, yes perfectly put but IF i
were putting this to a, Jury i'd say it's something
more like blonde girl crying being, Raped black slave girl
being Raped america's five.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Most notorial old.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Cases why Hasn't Long island serial killer been? Caught why
could law enforcement not trace calls made By Long island serial?
KILLER i, mean who would know to ask that particular
question except for.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
The Long island serial killer.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
EXACTLY i mean WHEN i would think about The Long
island serial, KILLER i would have so many, thoughts so many.
Questions BUT i didn't know at the time because people
Like Deputy Commissioner Anthony carter kept it so secret as
he should. HAVE i didn't know about the use of burner.
Phones well somebody. Did this guy was looking up why
(16:52):
can't they trace his burner?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Phones?
Speaker 5 (16:54):
NO i mean that's specifically what they ended up doing
is if you look at how they started pieces, together
which was brilliant by the agents that were involved and.
Officers they started to find those pieces and they started
to relate, to you, know proving the negative who was
around those burner phones when they had the geolocations that
they had from ten years, ago and so the fact
(17:17):
they went back and looked at all that evidence and
started to prove that the target was close, by you
know those same phone calls was a brilliant move to
prove that he did, it and then they were able
to go back after you, know his phones himself and
starting to look at what's. There now what's going to
be interesting too is the digital evidents that they find
in the search of his. HOUSE i can't wait to
see what they found in his computer because that's going
(17:38):
to be telling.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Too other, searches AND i want to go To John,
ray the family lawyer for Victim Shannon. GILBERT i know
That shannon's family has been, tortured especially when they say
this guy's, searches which say things like blonde haired, girl,
young depressed teen, girl oiled, bodies nude slave. GIRLS i
(18:05):
have to leave out some of this because EVEN i
wouldn't say it blank shot and, crying porn, girl, hogtide, torture,
porn skinny, redhead tied up, porn, short fat, girl tied up,
porn tied up and, raped porn as Doctor bethany poor
(18:26):
in it, Out asian, twink tied, up, porn tied, slave force.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Fed, Okay i'm not gonna finish that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
ONE i, mean teen girl begging for, rape, porn pretty
girl with bruised face.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Porn my mouth feels. FILTHY i need to go wash
it out with. Soap this was what is on His google.
Searches John.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Ray Now shannon's family has to read this and only
imagine What shannon may have or the other victims put up,
with what they end or what they lived or before they.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
DIED i want to.
Speaker 11 (19:03):
VOMIT i can play everybody DOES i think this, monster
this giant monster WHO i characterize As Tyrannosaurus, rex his
image is now frozen in the minds of The gilbert.
Family AND i also Represent Jessica taylor's family and the
Same they have the same.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Reaction twenty year Old Jessica taylor also found there along the.
Speaker 11 (19:28):
Beach go, Ahead, Yeah and these families haven't this image
now that's frozen in their mind that he is a.
Killer there's no way to be sure that he had
anything to do With Shannon gilbert at this point where
we're looking hard at. That but as we, speak but you,
know just the image itself of what, happened and when
(19:50):
you take what we do know of what happened To
shannon that the, night that early morning that she, disappeared
we know that she was under a threat from somebody like,
him either he himself or somebody like, him and there
is probably more than one of. Them but we're still
(20:12):
very optimistic now and delighted That Ray tiern needed a
district attorney And Rodney, harrison the police, commissioner finally may
put together the agencies that weren't working together so that
this can be. Done so we're looking. Forward we think
that it's a really good chance That Tarannosaurus rex killed
(20:33):
the others as, well because he was a hunter and.
Hunters he was a proficient. Hunter they have tools and
they take apart their, animals so he's certainly capable of
having dismembered these others that are, there, so of, course
and you.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Know another, Issue Kristin thorn joining, me investigative reporter of
THE abc star Of hulu's true crime, Show Missing kristin
just because he ran out of burrow at, Bags, okay
that does not mean he's not connected to all the other.
Bodies And i'm telling, You, kristin there are more. Victims
(21:08):
there are more, victims.
Speaker 11 (21:09):
You, Know.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
NANCY i think what concerns me and what has kept
me up at night the last few days since this
happened is not, necessarily of, course the remains that are
still left to the six other remains there Along Ocean
parkway On Long, Island but it's the women we haven't
heard about, yet, Right, so in some of the Cases
i've covered in my, SHOW i had some, concerns AND
(21:30):
i do hope that they will be using some of
THE dna evidence that they have to look at some
of these other women who have disappeared in The Tri state,
area WHO i believe in their family believes were victims of,
violence one in, particular who was worked in the same
line of work as the other. Women and so that's
(21:50):
what concerns. Me who is out there the women or anybody,
else because we haven't yet identified his, profile right we
know about The Gilg, war but we don't know who
else he may have been interested in killing or where
his interest to quote unquote. Lie CAN i make a
comment about, That, yeah jump.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
In BUT i need to go To Anthony carter about
what they're doing right, Now, bethany hold on just a,
Moment Deputy Commissioner, CARTER i pray To god In heaven
that this new task, force And i'm sure you're not
going to tell me is comparing HIS dna to every
OTHER dna that's been found in let's just say The
(22:30):
Tri state, area because once these bodies were, discovered you,
know he found another dumping, ground all, right comparing HIS,
dna looking at who else he's been calling.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
On his, many, many many burner phones.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
And figuring out where he was seen in That chevy,
avalanche WHICH i want to ask, You Deputy. COMMISSIONER i
happen to know that the avalanche discontinued manufacture in twenty.
Thirteen yet here's an avalanche part outside his, PLACE i
believe a relative's. Place an avalanche was seen at one
of the victims'. Homes let me THINK i believe it
(23:09):
Was Amber.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Costello long story.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
SHORT i can go on and on and on About,
wow here's the avalanche part outside his, home a few
miles away from where the bodies are, found and a
witness place is an avalanche at one of the victims'.
Homes how come it took so? Long but that is
something for me to chew apart on another. Day JUST
i want to know that HIS dna is being compared
(23:37):
to OTHER, dna especially in That Tri state.
Speaker 9 (23:40):
Area, no and that's a great that's a great. Question
and the one thing that maybe some some out there
may think that you, know the arrest was, Made we
arrested this subject that the task force, has you, know
concluded their investigation and is going to go ahead and
just look At. Rex the, investigation the task force is
(24:05):
going to remain intact and they are going to continue
gathering evidence in both With rex and the Go Go
beach investigation is far from.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Over And, Okay i'm going to take that as a.
Yes even though you're not saying, Yes i'm taking it
as a.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
Yes you say to examine every piece of. Evidence that's, right,
though absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Speaking of every piece of, evidence let's take a look at.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It we can talk about them that all the women,
work many of them contacted On. Craigslist they were sex.
Workers they were found dead in the same, way physical.
Similarities all these four put in burl at bags disposed
of on a lonely stretch of beach about twenty plus
minutes away from his home At Massapaker. Park but what
(24:52):
about the, evidence the heart. Evidence take a listen to
our cut three g are friends AT abc.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
Seven prosecutors say the smoking gun was a piece to
crust police dug Through huerman's trash MATCHING dna from a
partially eaten slice to previously unidentified hairs found on three
of The gilgo. Victims today they Booked heureman on murder,
chargers accused in the deaths Of Melissa Barthelemy Megan waterman
And Amber Lynn, costello and he's a prime suspect in
(25:19):
the death of a fourth, MARINE Brainerd.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Barnes, okay let's talk about the HARD dna evidence evidence
from a. Hair one of those hairs was found at
the bottom of one of the burlat bags that one
of the victims were discarded.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
In also apparently correct me If i'm, wrong jump on
at Kirsten.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Thorn three victims had the defendant's wife's hair on, them
obviously a transfer from her to him and from him
onto the. Victim so that's at least four p OF
dna that we know. Of then one of the victims
(26:04):
to tie up with a leather, belt hopefully MAYBE dna
TOUCH dna was taken off of. That AM i missing ANY?
Dna Kristin, no that sounds, okay that.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Is absolutely, Correct BUT i would love to talk about
the wife's.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Hair, sure Because i've got a professor of forensics with
me and a for forensic consultant specializing IN dna waiting
to jump on this because this this is going to
get him in addition to all of the circumstantial. Evidence tell, Me,
kristin here's.
Speaker 8 (26:35):
Here's my, question AND i would love to hear from,
You nancy and from your experts to. Me finding the
wife's hair on one victim would have been interesting to
find it on. Three i'm trying to, actually you, know
when you try to, think how does this? Happen how
(26:55):
does the wife's hair end up on each? Time and,
AGAIN i am not implying anything about. Her i'm trying
to actually go through how this. Happened does anybody have
any thoughts on?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
THAT i got a, thought But i'll bring in the
experts a transfer just Like i'm. Okay just a few minutes,
ago right before we went to, air my co Worker,
sydney handed me a big stack of papers to go
through about three minutes before we, started and she leaned
over me with her long blind hair AND i. TURNED
(27:30):
i guarantee you some piece of hair or some something
brushed up against my jacket and it's.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
There.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Okay you know who loves talking about This Joe Scott,
morgan he loves what's Your you have some quote you
always start.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
With, Why, Okay i'll let you tell.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It Joe Scott morgan with, Me Professor, Frensis Jacksonville State,
university And i've got to tell You i've been to
their crim pro building and.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Facilities that's an incredible.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Program Joe, scott author Of Blood Beneath My feet and
host of a hit Series Body, bags With Joe Scott.
Morgan go, Ahead no action doesn't leave the?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Trays, well, la, la what's the rest of?
Speaker 12 (28:10):
That the cards, principle every contact leaves a, trace and
it is the cornerstone that we work from in, forensics
and it's that axiom is over one hundred years old
and it still.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Applies tell, It Joe, scott preach. It preach, it, father
because this tie.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Is going down because of THIS. Dna and WHEN i
think of.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
These computer searches at, him acting out those, horrible, horrible
evil computer, searches all of these ladies to hell with. Him,
NOW i got to figure out a way to prove.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It hit.
Speaker 12 (28:45):
It let me give you a hellscape, here AND i
think that it exists in that. House and this is
my supposition. Here you, know we were speaking just a
moment ago about the transfer of the wife's. Hair you
know you Mentioned sydney in the, studio but what space
do you guys, Share probably on a daily basis when
you're laying down, sound it's in that, studio, Okay so
(29:08):
within that environment you kind of coexist in that. ENVIRONMENT
i am very, Curious, nancy relative to the, accused where
any of these victims brought back to this.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Home that's such a good, Idea Joe, scott because Remember Joe,
scott many of these and jump In Anthony, Carter Deputy,
commissioner And Kristen thorne because you may know better Than
Joe scott AND i many of these murders occurred while
his wife was, gone and she has very distinct.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Hair she Is, icelandic so HER dna is going to
be very.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Identifiable and this is MITOCHONDRIAL, dna which comes from your mother.
Only so anybody jump in with a thought In, BETHANY i,
Promise i'm circling.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Back this Is.
Speaker 13 (29:54):
Toby first of, all the, HAIR i was a friend Of.
Charac i'm there for a short. Time, also the average
person that has hair loses about one hundred hairs at
a day, randomly so the hair connection on just the
one victim would be, coincident could be yelled called. Coincidence
(30:15):
on three, victims it becomes more of a. Pattern but
the locations of the hair is because of. That if
she rode in the, avalanche if it was on his,
clothing if he took any of the victims, home all
those are reasonable explanations for where the hair is that
THE dna was done on came from because of the
(30:36):
fact that we lose hair so, easily so that, connection you,
know is more open to. Interpretation where you come, from
it's very probable because he transported, them or may have
transported them in the, avalanche that the hairs were on
him or in that vehicle and that's where the transfer.
(30:57):
Occurred or if the be you, know Burlied baggs came
from his, home they could have been transferred. There but
hair transfers are a common, thing and you, know it
makes it harder to interpret what's going on because of
how common it.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Is BUT i agree with you you're Hearing Toby wolson forends
that consultant specializing IN dna zerology bloodstain at no slow
forensic Dot. Com, well he's, right of, Course Joe Scott.
Morgan but three, hairs As Kristin thorn pointed, out each
(31:32):
one on a different. VICTIM i want to explore your
theory that these victims may have been taken to his.
HOME i, mean when you've got three hairs on three different,
victims the only thing the defense can do now is
an aj defense it was.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
PLANTED i, mean let me hear your, theory Jo.
Speaker 12 (31:51):
Scott, well this is one thing That i'm very encouraged
by and that these folks are, doing is THAT i
saw these images on the news of the, police the
investigators going in and out of that home And. NANCY
i hope they retain this place and take it down
to the damn studs that everything that they can harvest
out of that environment from an evidentary standpoint is going
(32:15):
to be. Acquired here's one more, thing And i'll be.
QUIET i don't.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Want you to be. QUIET i love everything you're.
Speaker 12 (32:20):
Saying it's something that really sent a chill up up my.
Spine and maybe it's maybe it's a wild goose, chase
but this one, VICTIM i was looking at this charging
document that's mentioned the Miss, Marine Brainerd. Barnes and one
thing that kind of sent a chill up my spine
was that This burner phone that the accused, had or
(32:41):
that he is alleged to have, had had contacts With
marine's phone sixteen Times nancy over a period of time
From july to sixth Or july the. Ninth, okay they
have her phone finally dropping off the face for a,
while and there's like a couple of days lag. There
but then here's the chilling. Part he apparently the perpetrator
(33:07):
opened her phone up again and began to check her.
Messages let me ask you, Something, nancy would you just
blindly give without any kind of fighting? Back would you
give somebody the code to your cell phone to check your?
(33:28):
MESSAGES i, MEAN i KNOW i. WOULDN'T i don't know
about the other folks on the. Panel but how did
he get that information from her in order to get
in to her voicemail to check? It if that is?
True what they're a, legend and that to me is.
Chilling that to me shows that he may have been
in control of that person in. Particular about the rest of,
(33:50):
THEM i have no.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Idea, well All i've got to do is look at
His google search As Joe scott and, figure AND i
can tell, YOU i mean he looks up a hog
time raping woman and obviously he is fixated on. TORTURE i,
Mean Dr Bethy, marshall you don't say that kind Of
google search every. Day And i've looked at plenty of
(34:13):
people's computers in their.
Speaker 10 (34:14):
Searches, no absolutely. Not and to frame our, discussion if
you think of this guy as a combination of an
obsessive sex addict who thrives off power and inflicting pain
in order to enhance his sexual, arousal his victim profile
is going to keep, changing and he goes to more
(34:36):
and more extreme types of pornography and more different types
of victims in order to enhance his sexual. Arousal so
maybe he starts with someone with it in his own,
race an age. Mate then he goes to a younger,
person than a smaller, person than a bigger, person than a,
man than a, woman than a. Child and SO i
think that the complication and why the investigation is going
(34:59):
to have to folk with so much on the data
and the. Science if this guy is going to find
anything in order to increase his sexual, arousal and not
just finding different, victims but stalking, them toying with, them
perhaps taking them back to his. House this is not
(35:20):
a one and done kind of guy where maybe someone
looks at, pornography, masturbates closes the. Computer this is a
guy who's going to get as much sexual satisfaction out
of any one victim as. Possible so it's multiple assaults
against one victim over an extended period of.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Time which goes back To Joe Scott morgan's theory that
some of the victims may have been taken to the
home because an extended period of, time assault probably would
not take place in a vehicle A Chevy. Avalanche Time
(36:00):
stories With Nancy. GRACE i know the condition in which
these bodies were, found but what do we know about
Human Deputy. COMMISSIONER i don't know if you can comment on,
this but can you describe how HIS.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Dna was obtained off a pizza crust during?
Speaker 9 (36:25):
Surveillance you, know he was being observed and there was
an opportunity where he had discarded A i guess like
a small personal pizza box into a garbage in the,
city and our undercovers were able to retrieve that box
(36:45):
and just to go back on a point to you,
know whether you know his home may have been involved
in the location of of the. Homicides the one thing
that we can say is that it's not a coincidence
that his wife and family were away in three of the.
(37:08):
Murders and we're taking you, know LIKE i, said active.
Investigation we're at the. HOME i think somebody had mentioned
on the call here that we're taking the. House we
should take the, help AND i think that is the
plan to get every piece of evidence that we can
(37:28):
possibly get while we're inside of that home with.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Me Deputy Commissioner Anthony carter From Suffolk County, POLICE i
had to tell you, Something Deputy. Commissioner i'm the first
one to scream when police screw up an investigation because
it hurts me as a former prosecutor and a crime victim.
Myself BUT i am so impressed with your surveillance of,
(37:55):
hereman your identification of. HIM i know it's been a
long time, coming but this is a fresh homicide task.
Force this is a whole new look because this case
was ignored by prior. Administrations you guys come in there
like a barn on. Fire you find this. Guy you surveil.
Him you really look at the. Evidence then you catch
(38:17):
him discarding a pizza crust and get HIS dna which
matches up to OTHER. Dna you get his WIFE'S. Dna
do we have any? Idea can you comment on how
you did?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
That Deputy?
Speaker 9 (38:33):
Commissioner so same you, know same methodology in trying to
attain abandon. Examples you, know very similar fashion where we
were able to obtain recycled cans from their, look you,
know from where they.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Live so that's how you got the WIFE'S. Dna that's.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Correct, wow there's so MUCH i hardly know which way to.
Go but let me understand, Something Kristin, thorne anybody on
the panelan is the answer to? This the Way i'm
reading the affidavit and other, information was this idiot actually
traveling with A burner phone and his own private mobile
phone together Like. Coyburger you know you can see him
(39:15):
traveling away from the crime.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Scene did that? Happen does anybody?
Speaker 8 (39:19):
Know, well we know that they certainly there. Are they
certainly tracked the burner phones relationship and location Near Massapequa
park as well as His midtown, office and they called
that the box that was. There the points that they
used to, triangulate although in that word it would be three,
(39:40):
sides but the box would be four to really you,
know pinpoint that his, locations where he, was where he,
lives where he, worked we're also coordinating with the hits
from these burner.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Phones, okay break that down, too regular people.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Talk this is Todd SO i think what significance is
what you're, saying and what they alleged in the court
documents is that they found no instance where the suspect
was in a separate location from the other cell phones
when the communications occurred when he was talking to them
from the burner, phones and so at that significant that
they tied them together from those sotellar, records that his
(40:17):
phone was there and the burner phone was. There in
instances outside of the, calls his, phone you, know was not.
There so it's pretty.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Significant, okay that is entirely significant To Anthony, CARTER Wy police.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Commissioner what do you make of that?
Speaker 9 (40:35):
Theory, so you, KNOW i think when we talk about
some of the locations that we talked, about you, know
the burner phones versus his phone and trying to tie
that all, IN i think it was you, know it
was challenging because we, look we're looking at an area
of over fifteen hundred homes that also included a portion
(40:55):
of The Massapeaker, preserve and that also then opens up
which are hitting those cell towers to people that may
or may not even live in Massi, pequa may or
may not even live In Nasa. County SO i mean
that is one of the things behind the exhaustive effort
(41:15):
committed by the members and the Task force to try
to drill down and get the right information and the
right evidence to move us forward in the.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Case Christen thorn W Abc channel, seven what can you
tell me about recent revelations of a storage unit a.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
Search so we know that there's an active investigation right
now around a storage unit On Long, island and for
all we know and we believe that it is connected
to this. Investigation you, KNOW i think what they're going
to be looking. For AND i also noticed in the
indictment and we talk about his house and how they
do need to and are going to tear apart that,
(41:56):
house there were items missing from the, victims so, jewelry
some pieces of. Clothing those are things that would probably
be familiar to the family that the family told them
she used to always wear this, necklace this. Bracelet that's
very common we, find and so those things were, missing
and so those are the things that they're going to
be looking for in the house and in this potential storage.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Unit this is rapidly, Developing but for right, now what
do we?
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Know breaking today in The Long island serial killer, case
and arrest has been made in the death Of Tanya
jackson and her two year old, Daughter Tatiana. Dikes that
case had been connected to human but he had not
been charged for. Years she was simply known As peaches
because of a distinctive tattoo on her. Body Andrew, dikes sixty,
(42:44):
six has now appeared before A florida judge in connection
with The. Cays dikes is believed to be the father Of.
Tatiyana authorities are petitioning for his extradition To New.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
York the staggering number of bodies found is going to
overwhelm any. Jarar but it's the, truth and you cannot
hide the truth from a.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Jury we wait as justice. Unfolds goodbye, friend
Rex Hereman.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
The name will live forever in infamy, along names like
Ted Bundy, BTK, buying torture, Kill, Dennis Raider, Timothy McVeigh,
Charles Manson. Oh gosh, I could go on. Rex Hereman,
(00:27):
the alleged Long Island serial killer awaiting trial. We know
what he did to his victims, horrific, horrific murderers after horrific,
horrific sex torture while his wife and children were out
of town in a basement dungeon, then burying them so
(00:50):
he could look at their graves every day when he
went to work on Long Island there at Gilgo Beach.
And that is tonight's Friday Night Special and it is
very very special. Oh Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Rex Heureman. Cops say he.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Is the Long Island serial killer. I believe he can
be connected and will be connected to many many other
dead bodies. But for tonight, for our Friday Night Special,
I hope you're.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Sitting down.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
If you look at the faces of all the women
he allegedly murdered one, two, three, four, five, I mean
on and on, five, six, seven and counting all these
women dead at the hands of Rex Hureman.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
What do we know, Nancy?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
As you said, rex Huerman is suspected in and charged
in multiple gruesome murders of young sex workers on Long Island,
but now he has been cleared in the strangulation death
of Colleen McNamee. The twenty year old was beaten, strangled,
and dumped near William Floyd Parkway in nineteen ninety four.
DNA testing cleared Hureman in connection with the murder. Quoting
(02:24):
from the coroner's report, A comparison between cyber Genetics developed
profile Unknown Male A and the DNA profile of rex
Huerman was performed. Assuming that the unknown male A profile
is a mixture without any illegal dropout and strictly based
on possibly on possible genotypes present in the profile, rex
(02:45):
Hueerman is excluded as unknown male A end quote. The
DNA test was conducted following a request by convicted killer
John Mittrolf. He was convicted in twenty seventeen of killing
macnamee and Rita Tangridy. Her battered body was found in
nineteen ninety three. Birolf tried to pin McNamee's murder on
(03:07):
Heuerman DNA proved to claim innocent, but in seven other
cases it is DNA evidence linking Heureman, the accused serial killer,
to seven other bodies Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Megan Waterman,
Melissa Barthelmy twenty four, Maureene Brainerd Barnes twenty five, Sandra
Costilla twenty eight, and Amberlin Costello twenty seven. They were
(03:30):
murdered between nineteen ninety three and twenty ten. Huerman, a
Manhattan architect, denied he was behind the gruesome killings. He
has been held since his arrest without bail. Meanwhile, Biterolf,
a fifty eight year old former carpenter, is now serving
fifty years to life for the two murders.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
What exactly do we know about the murders?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Rex Huerman uh very well respected architect behind bars in
the desks of many women, connected in time and location,
many of them sex workers, all of them daughters, mothers, sisters, girlfriends.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases
in modern American history. Centered on this lonely stretch of
sand on the south shore.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Of Long Island, New York.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Gilg Be just a small community with a big mystery
on its hands. The bodies of fifteen brutally murdered young women,
and there seems to be a pattern, many of them
under five feet tall and less than one hundred pounds,
all dumped in the surrounding dunes over a period of
twenty years.
Speaker 6 (04:56):
There's been some new developments in the gig investigation.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Last night, a.
Speaker 6 (05:01):
Little bit around a thirty PM in the vicinity of
thirty fifth and fifth Avenue in the city, members assigned
to the Gilgo Beach Task Force did place one individual
under arrest.
Speaker 7 (05:14):
After years of searching and fear, years of true crime
hobbyists and their theories, Rex, did you do?
Speaker 8 (05:21):
It?
Speaker 7 (05:21):
Turned out the suspected Gilgo Beach killer was hiding in
plain sight the whole time. Fifty nine year old Rex Huerman,
a suburban husband, father of two, and copsay the.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
A demon that walks among us, a predator that ruined families.
If not for the members of this task force, he
would still be on the streets today, you darn Wright.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
If not for this newly formed task force instituted by
the new elected District Attorney, this guy would still be
walking free. And I guarantee you would still be killing
and I've got sacs to support that theory. You were
just hearing our friends at Crime Watch DLA WABC seven
and the Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison with me
(06:08):
an all star panel. But first I want to go
to a special guest joining us, Anthony M.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Carter.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
This is the Deputy Police commission in Suffolk County. Deputy Commissioner, Man,
it's been a long time coming. I want to hear
your reaction to the arrest of a prominent architect, a father, husband.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
It's kind of hard.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
To believe, but you guys have known for some time
and keeping it on the down low what was happening
because you had intel. This guy was watching the police's
every move.
Speaker 9 (06:43):
Yeah, you know. It all began when Commissioner Harrison took
office here at the Suffolk County Police Department and one
of his top priorities was the Google Beach investigation, and
he had a vision. As you know, the former chief
of Detective is the NYPD former Chief of Department and
the experience that he had. One of the things he
(07:07):
knew is that we needed to get a fresh look
at the case and we needed to get our law
enforcement partners involved, and Commissioner Harrison created this task force,
called it the Google Beach Task Force, and it comprised
of investigators from the State Police, the District Attorney's office,
(07:34):
the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
You know, you cut out on me right there for
a second, but I think you said the FBI. And
in the past, before the Knee regime, there was a
lot of resistance to bringing in the FBI. But when
you've got women dyeing, going missing and now all these
bodies turning up unsolved, Hey, you know what, I'm happy
for all the help I can get every single day.
(07:57):
So I just canngratulate late you and your Commissioner Harrison
on this arrest.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And it was it was a joint effort. You know.
I like that about you and your boss.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You don't try to hog the limelight or say it's
all about you. You really always give the credit to
everyone involved. And you know, standing by right now, Kristin
Thorn is with me, very well known investigative reporter to
be ABC Channel seven eyewitness News host of Hulu's new
crime show Missing Kristin. It's great to have you and
(08:33):
you have stood by you and I both have plodded
around there at the beach looking for clues, trying to
find answers.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Can you believe we've finally got an arrest?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I gotta tell you, Kristin just in time, because
this pos technical legal term was caught on camera at
a cell phone store paying in cash from what I
can tell, for more burner phone minutes. That's his You
want to tell me this guy's out of business? H
E double l n oh, he's still at it, Kristin.
Speaker 8 (09:06):
Yeah, Nancy, And I think that's what's really scary about
this entire situation and why law enforcement decided it was time. Look,
they wanted to have Maureen Brainerd Barnes included in this indictment,
and she is absolutely mentioned in this indictment.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, Well, hold on, lady, back
it up.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
You're going warped four before we can get there. There's
so many bodies.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
But you often hear of the Gilg four, correct me
if I'm on, Kristin, But you are correct. The Gilgo
four were all found in burlap bags, similarly bound naked,
having been sex assaulted, which really links them together right now,
This architect, this dad, this husband, is charged with six counts,
(09:52):
three murders, three felony murder charges, three second degree murder charges,
three victims, but just a matter of days, I believe,
before he's charged with the fourth. Then we got to
deal with all the other dead bodies. But you refer
to a woman, Brainerd Barnes, Marine, Brainerd Barnes, aged twenty five.
(10:13):
He's the prime suspect and she's number four in the
you'll go four? Did I make that clear?
Speaker 10 (10:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, go ahead, yes, And so the.
Speaker 8 (10:21):
Law enforcement knew that they had to get him now
because they were worried about what he may do next.
What he was looking on his phone.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I mean, creepy dude, Kristin, creepy dude. You know, my
daughter and my son, they'll see they're just fifteen. They'll
see somebody and go, okay, that's a creepy dude right there.
Tell us Kristin about this creepy dude going up to
a woman in a park setting in the last couple
of months and completely scheving her out.
Speaker 8 (10:55):
He was walking around and she was in the woods
as a nice wooded park and massive people park, and
she was walking around and he, as she says, came
up behind him and was asking about her boyfriend. And
you know, he's a very big man.
Speaker 11 (11:10):
Six'.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Four, hey what do you put him? At Anthony?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Carter, Guys i'm speaking To Anthony, carter but he is
the deputy Police. COMMISSIONER i, Mean i'm acting Like i'm
sitting here having a cup of coffee with this. Guy
he's been on this from the get, go since he
came in and they formed a new task.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Force how much does this guy? Way what'd you put him?
At two?
Speaker 9 (11:29):
Forty, YEAH i mean he's a very large. INDIVIDUAL i
would definitely, say, yeah right around there around that two
hundred and forty pound. Mark very just very just an,
oversized you, know very large. Man and you know, YEAH i,
MEAN i know everybody's seen that YouTube, video you, know
and where he's towering over the person that's conducting the
(11:51):
interview with.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Him Crime stores With Nancy grace in the last days
In New York State Supreme Court justice rules DAMNING DNA
ev it's tying Rex huerman to the murders of many
(12:12):
women whose remains are found Near Gilgo beach will come
in to. TRIAL i just think about. It these are
the bodies we know, about are there other. BODIES i
would be very surprised if there were. Not Doctor Bessie,
marshall you go up to a woman in a, park
(12:33):
sneak up behind her and, go, hey who's your?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
BOYFRIEND i would run.
Speaker 10 (12:38):
Anthy what it tells me is that he was constantly
trolling for, victims and as a part of trolling for,
victims he had this whole list of. QUESTIONS i, mean
number one would, be, hey do you have a?
Speaker 12 (12:51):
Boyfriend who's your?
Speaker 10 (12:52):
Boyfriend the reason for that is who is he going
to have to separate the woman from is does she have?
Family does she of people who's interested in? Her and if,
so it's going to make it more difficult to kidnap
sex assault. Her, secondly he's looking for women who are quite,
short who are petite women he can easily handle, easily you,
(13:14):
know kidnap and transport from one area to. Another and
then he actually probably has many other aspects of his
victim profile that are going to come out during the
course of this, investigation especially as it pertains to his online.
Searches maybe under h kids, twinks who was one of
the THINGS i?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Heard you, know young, Height, well what was the last
thing you said. Twinks you need to tell everybody what that. Means.
Speaker 10 (13:37):
OKAY a twink is a young man who looks very,
feminine usually, underweight very, small and the old fashioned work
for them as. Twinks so that was one of his
victim profiles that he was looking for with these kinds
of young.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Men, hey, guys this includes, You Kristin, Thorne Toby, Wilson Todd,
Shipley Joe Scott, Morgan Deputy Commissioner, Carter Doctor Bethany, genre
the lawyer for the family Of Shannon. Gilbert she may
not be connected To, hureman we don't know that, yet
but it's because of her that all of these bodies were.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Found she's.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Dead she was killed there On Long, island AND i
believe it hadn't been for her body being, discovered we
may never have found the other. Bodies that, said everybody
jump in whenever you have a. Thought but you hear
Doctor Bethany marshall correctly describing the fact of These google
searches we have just learned.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
About the, police of course knew about it with.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Me Todd, shipley cybercrime, expert author of Investigating internet. Crimes
you can find him at Dark intaeil dot. Info, todd
just follow, up please with what Doctor bethany just said
about this guy's Perverted google.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Searches i'm sure you saying them, right.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
SURE i think what's important is the fact that that
was available once they identified the suspect and they were
able to go To google and subpoena them because they
did over three hundred subpoenas early. On so there's a
lot of information that we still don't know about. Yet
but once they started looking at this, guy was pretty
evident that he was the, one because the searches were
(15:22):
evident looking for information about the. Case he was trying
to find out what the law enforcement agencies knew about
him and what they were divulging online and how much
information was, there and he was doing you, know his
dating and all the other things that go along with
what was. Happening so it was pretty, apparent you, know
once they started looking at his searches that this was
(15:43):
a person of interest for. Them and it's pretty telling
that there's that much information about us when we started
thinking about you, know evidence online and what we.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Do you know, what, yes perfectly put but IF i
were putting this to a, Jury i'd say it's something
more like blonde girl crying being, Raped black slave girl
being Raped america's five.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Most notorial old.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Cases why Hasn't Long island serial killer been? Caught why
could law enforcement not trace calls made By Long island serial?
KILLER i, mean who would know to ask that particular
question except for.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
The Long island serial killer.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
EXACTLY i mean WHEN i would think about The Long
island serial, KILLER i would have so many, thoughts so many.
Questions BUT i didn't know at the time because people
Like Deputy Commissioner Anthony carter kept it so secret as
he should. HAVE i didn't know about the use of burner.
Phones well somebody. Did this guy was looking up why
(16:52):
can't they trace his burner?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Phones?
Speaker 5 (16:54):
NO i mean that's specifically what they ended up doing
is if you look at how they started pieces, together
which was brilliant by the agents that were involved and.
Officers they started to find those pieces and they started
to relate, to you, know proving the negative who was
around those burner phones when they had the geolocations that
they had from ten years, ago and so the fact
(17:17):
they went back and looked at all that evidence and
started to prove that the target was close, by you
know those same phone calls was a brilliant move to
prove that he did, it and then they were able
to go back after you, know his phones himself and
starting to look at what's. There now what's going to
be interesting too is the digital evidents that they find
in the search of his. HOUSE i can't wait to
see what they found in his computer because that's going
(17:38):
to be telling.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Too other, searches AND i want to go To John,
ray the family lawyer for Victim Shannon. GILBERT i know
That shannon's family has been, tortured especially when they say
this guy's, searches which say things like blonde haired, girl,
young depressed teen, girl oiled, bodies nude slave. GIRLS i
(18:05):
have to leave out some of this because EVEN i
wouldn't say it blank shot and, crying porn, girl, hogtide, torture,
porn skinny, redhead tied up, porn, short fat, girl tied up,
porn tied up and, raped porn as Doctor bethany poor
(18:26):
in it, Out asian, twink tied, up, porn tied, slave force.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Fed, Okay i'm not gonna finish that.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
ONE i, mean teen girl begging for, rape, porn pretty
girl with bruised face.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Porn my mouth feels. FILTHY i need to go wash
it out with. Soap this was what is on His google.
Searches John.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Ray Now shannon's family has to read this and only
imagine What shannon may have or the other victims put up,
with what they end or what they lived or before they.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
DIED i want to.
Speaker 11 (19:03):
VOMIT i can play everybody DOES i think this, monster
this giant monster WHO i characterize As Tyrannosaurus, rex his
image is now frozen in the minds of The gilbert.
Family AND i also Represent Jessica taylor's family and the
Same they have the same.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Reaction twenty year Old Jessica taylor also found there along the.
Speaker 11 (19:28):
Beach go, Ahead, Yeah and these families haven't this image
now that's frozen in their mind that he is a.
Killer there's no way to be sure that he had
anything to do With Shannon gilbert at this point where
we're looking hard at. That but as we, speak but you,
know just the image itself of what, happened and when
(19:50):
you take what we do know of what happened To
shannon that the, night that early morning that she, disappeared
we know that she was under a threat from somebody like,
him either he himself or somebody like, him and there
is probably more than one of. Them but we're still
(20:12):
very optimistic now and delighted That Ray tiern needed a
district attorney And Rodney, harrison the police, commissioner finally may
put together the agencies that weren't working together so that
this can be. Done so we're looking. Forward we think
that it's a really good chance That Tarannosaurus rex killed
(20:33):
the others as, well because he was a hunter and.
Hunters he was a proficient. Hunter they have tools and
they take apart their, animals so he's certainly capable of
having dismembered these others that are, there, so of, course
and you.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Know another, Issue Kristin thorn joining, me investigative reporter of
THE abc star Of hulu's true crime, Show Missing kristin
just because he ran out of burrow at, Bags, okay
that does not mean he's not connected to all the other.
Bodies And i'm telling, You, kristin there are more. Victims
(21:08):
there are more, victims.
Speaker 11 (21:09):
You, Know.
Speaker 8 (21:10):
NANCY i think what concerns me and what has kept
me up at night the last few days since this
happened is not, necessarily of, course the remains that are
still left to the six other remains there Along Ocean
parkway On Long, Island but it's the women we haven't
heard about, yet, Right, so in some of the Cases
i've covered in my, SHOW i had some, concerns AND
(21:30):
i do hope that they will be using some of
THE dna evidence that they have to look at some
of these other women who have disappeared in The Tri state,
area WHO i believe in their family believes were victims of,
violence one in, particular who was worked in the same
line of work as the other. Women and so that's
(21:50):
what concerns. Me who is out there the women or anybody,
else because we haven't yet identified his, profile right we
know about The Gilg, war but we don't know who
else he may have been interested in killing or where
his interest to quote unquote. Lie CAN i make a
comment about, That, yeah jump.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
In BUT i need to go To Anthony carter about
what they're doing right, Now, bethany hold on just a,
Moment Deputy Commissioner, CARTER i pray To god In heaven
that this new task, force And i'm sure you're not
going to tell me is comparing HIS dna to every
OTHER dna that's been found in let's just say The
(22:30):
Tri state, area because once these bodies were, discovered you,
know he found another dumping, ground all, right comparing HIS,
dna looking at who else he's been calling.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
On his, many, many many burner phones.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
And figuring out where he was seen in That chevy,
avalanche WHICH i want to ask, You Deputy. COMMISSIONER i
happen to know that the avalanche discontinued manufacture in twenty.
Thirteen yet here's an avalanche part outside his, PLACE i
believe a relative's. Place an avalanche was seen at one
of the victims'. Homes let me THINK i believe it
(23:09):
Was Amber.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Costello long story.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
SHORT i can go on and on and on About,
wow here's the avalanche part outside his, home a few
miles away from where the bodies are, found and a
witness place is an avalanche at one of the victims'.
Homes how come it took so? Long but that is
something for me to chew apart on another. Day JUST
i want to know that HIS dna is being compared
(23:37):
to OTHER, dna especially in That Tri state.
Speaker 9 (23:40):
Area, no and that's a great that's a great. Question
and the one thing that maybe some some out there
may think that you, know the arrest was, Made we
arrested this subject that the task force, has you, know
concluded their investigation and is going to go ahead and
just look At. Rex the, investigation the task force is
(24:05):
going to remain intact and they are going to continue
gathering evidence in both With rex and the Go Go
beach investigation is far from.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Over And, Okay i'm going to take that as a.
Yes even though you're not saying, Yes i'm taking it
as a.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
Yes you say to examine every piece of. Evidence that's, right,
though absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Speaking of every piece of, evidence let's take a look at.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It we can talk about them that all the women,
work many of them contacted On. Craigslist they were sex.
Workers they were found dead in the same, way physical.
Similarities all these four put in burl at bags disposed
of on a lonely stretch of beach about twenty plus
minutes away from his home At Massapaker. Park but what
(24:52):
about the, evidence the heart. Evidence take a listen to
our cut three g are friends AT abc.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
Seven prosecutors say the smoking gun was a piece to
crust police dug Through huerman's trash MATCHING dna from a
partially eaten slice to previously unidentified hairs found on three
of The gilgo. Victims today they Booked heureman on murder,
chargers accused in the deaths Of Melissa Barthelemy Megan waterman
And Amber Lynn, costello and he's a prime suspect in
(25:19):
the death of a fourth, MARINE Brainerd.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Barnes, okay let's talk about the HARD dna evidence evidence
from a. Hair one of those hairs was found at
the bottom of one of the burlat bags that one
of the victims were discarded.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
In also apparently correct me If i'm, wrong jump on
at Kirsten.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Thorn three victims had the defendant's wife's hair on, them
obviously a transfer from her to him and from him
onto the. Victim so that's at least four p OF
dna that we know. Of then one of the victims
(26:04):
to tie up with a leather, belt hopefully MAYBE dna
TOUCH dna was taken off of. That AM i missing ANY?
Dna Kristin, no that sounds, okay that.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
Is absolutely, Correct BUT i would love to talk about
the wife's.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Hair, sure Because i've got a professor of forensics with
me and a for forensic consultant specializing IN dna waiting
to jump on this because this this is going to
get him in addition to all of the circumstantial. Evidence tell, Me,
kristin here's.
Speaker 8 (26:35):
Here's my, question AND i would love to hear from,
You nancy and from your experts to. Me finding the
wife's hair on one victim would have been interesting to
find it on. Three i'm trying to, actually you, know
when you try to, think how does this? Happen how
(26:55):
does the wife's hair end up on each? Time and,
AGAIN i am not implying anything about. Her i'm trying
to actually go through how this. Happened does anybody have
any thoughts on?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
THAT i got a, thought But i'll bring in the
experts a transfer just Like i'm. Okay just a few minutes,
ago right before we went to, air my co Worker,
sydney handed me a big stack of papers to go
through about three minutes before we, started and she leaned
over me with her long blind hair AND i. TURNED
(27:30):
i guarantee you some piece of hair or some something
brushed up against my jacket and it's.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
There.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Okay you know who loves talking about This Joe Scott,
morgan he loves what's Your you have some quote you
always start.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
With, Why, Okay i'll let you tell.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
It Joe Scott morgan with, Me Professor, Frensis Jacksonville State,
university And i've got to tell You i've been to
their crim pro building and.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Facilities that's an incredible.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Program Joe, scott author Of Blood Beneath My feet and
host of a hit Series Body, bags With Joe Scott.
Morgan go, Ahead no action doesn't leave the?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Trays, well, la, la what's the rest of?
Speaker 12 (28:10):
That the cards, principle every contact leaves a, trace and
it is the cornerstone that we work from in, forensics
and it's that axiom is over one hundred years old
and it still.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Applies tell, It Joe, scott preach. It preach, it, father
because this tie.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Is going down because of THIS. Dna and WHEN i
think of.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
These computer searches at, him acting out those, horrible, horrible
evil computer, searches all of these ladies to hell with. Him,
NOW i got to figure out a way to prove.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It hit.
Speaker 12 (28:45):
It let me give you a hellscape, here AND i
think that it exists in that. House and this is
my supposition. Here you, know we were speaking just a
moment ago about the transfer of the wife's. Hair you
know you Mentioned sydney in the, studio but what space
do you guys, Share probably on a daily basis when
you're laying down, sound it's in that, studio, Okay so
(29:08):
within that environment you kind of coexist in that. ENVIRONMENT
i am very, Curious, nancy relative to the, accused where
any of these victims brought back to this.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Home that's such a good, Idea Joe, scott because Remember Joe,
scott many of these and jump In Anthony, Carter Deputy,
commissioner And Kristen thorne because you may know better Than
Joe scott AND i many of these murders occurred while
his wife was, gone and she has very distinct.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Hair she Is, icelandic so HER dna is going to
be very.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Identifiable and this is MITOCHONDRIAL, dna which comes from your mother.
Only so anybody jump in with a thought In, BETHANY i,
Promise i'm circling.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Back this Is.
Speaker 13 (29:54):
Toby first of, all the, HAIR i was a friend Of.
Charac i'm there for a short. Time, also the average
person that has hair loses about one hundred hairs at
a day, randomly so the hair connection on just the
one victim would be, coincident could be yelled called. Coincidence
(30:15):
on three, victims it becomes more of a. Pattern but
the locations of the hair is because of. That if
she rode in the, avalanche if it was on his,
clothing if he took any of the victims, home all
those are reasonable explanations for where the hair is that
THE dna was done on came from because of the
(30:36):
fact that we lose hair so, easily so that, connection you,
know is more open to. Interpretation where you come, from
it's very probable because he transported, them or may have
transported them in the, avalanche that the hairs were on
him or in that vehicle and that's where the transfer.
(30:57):
Occurred or if the be you, know Burlied baggs came
from his, home they could have been transferred. There but
hair transfers are a common, thing and you, know it
makes it harder to interpret what's going on because of
how common it.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Is BUT i agree with you you're Hearing Toby wolson forends
that consultant specializing IN dna zerology bloodstain at no slow
forensic Dot. Com, well he's, right of, Course Joe Scott.
Morgan but three, hairs As Kristin thorn pointed, out each
(31:32):
one on a different. VICTIM i want to explore your
theory that these victims may have been taken to his.
HOME i, mean when you've got three hairs on three different,
victims the only thing the defense can do now is
an aj defense it was.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
PLANTED i, mean let me hear your, theory Jo.
Speaker 12 (31:51):
Scott, well this is one thing That i'm very encouraged
by and that these folks are, doing is THAT i
saw these images on the news of the, police the
investigators going in and out of that home And. NANCY
i hope they retain this place and take it down
to the damn studs that everything that they can harvest
out of that environment from an evidentary standpoint is going
(32:15):
to be. Acquired here's one more, thing And i'll be.
QUIET i don't.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Want you to be. QUIET i love everything you're.
Speaker 12 (32:20):
Saying it's something that really sent a chill up up my.
Spine and maybe it's maybe it's a wild goose, chase
but this one, VICTIM i was looking at this charging
document that's mentioned the Miss, Marine Brainerd. Barnes and one
thing that kind of sent a chill up my spine
was that This burner phone that the accused, had or
(32:41):
that he is alleged to have, had had contacts With
marine's phone sixteen Times nancy over a period of time
From july to sixth Or july the. Ninth, okay they
have her phone finally dropping off the face for a,
while and there's like a couple of days lag. There
but then here's the chilling. Part he apparently the perpetrator
(33:07):
opened her phone up again and began to check her.
Messages let me ask you, Something, nancy would you just
blindly give without any kind of fighting? Back would you
give somebody the code to your cell phone to check your?
(33:28):
MESSAGES i, MEAN i KNOW i. WOULDN'T i don't know
about the other folks on the. Panel but how did
he get that information from her in order to get
in to her voicemail to check? It if that is?
True what they're a, legend and that to me is.
Chilling that to me shows that he may have been
in control of that person in. Particular about the rest of,
(33:50):
THEM i have no.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Idea, well All i've got to do is look at
His google search As Joe scott and, figure AND i
can tell, YOU i mean he looks up a hog
time raping woman and obviously he is fixated on. TORTURE i,
Mean Dr Bethy, marshall you don't say that kind Of
google search every. Day And i've looked at plenty of
(34:13):
people's computers in their.
Speaker 10 (34:14):
Searches, no absolutely. Not and to frame our, discussion if
you think of this guy as a combination of an
obsessive sex addict who thrives off power and inflicting pain
in order to enhance his sexual, arousal his victim profile
is going to keep, changing and he goes to more
(34:36):
and more extreme types of pornography and more different types
of victims in order to enhance his sexual. Arousal so
maybe he starts with someone with it in his own,
race an age. Mate then he goes to a younger,
person than a smaller, person than a bigger, person than a,
man than a, woman than a. Child and SO i
think that the complication and why the investigation is going
(34:59):
to have to folk with so much on the data
and the. Science if this guy is going to find
anything in order to increase his sexual, arousal and not
just finding different, victims but stalking, them toying with, them
perhaps taking them back to his. House this is not
(35:20):
a one and done kind of guy where maybe someone
looks at, pornography, masturbates closes the. Computer this is a
guy who's going to get as much sexual satisfaction out
of any one victim as. Possible so it's multiple assaults
against one victim over an extended period of.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Time which goes back To Joe Scott morgan's theory that
some of the victims may have been taken to the
home because an extended period of, time assault probably would
not take place in a vehicle A Chevy. Avalanche Time
(36:00):
stories With Nancy. GRACE i know the condition in which
these bodies were, found but what do we know about
Human Deputy. COMMISSIONER i don't know if you can comment on,
this but can you describe how HIS.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Dna was obtained off a pizza crust during?
Speaker 9 (36:25):
Surveillance you, know he was being observed and there was
an opportunity where he had discarded A i guess like
a small personal pizza box into a garbage in the,
city and our undercovers were able to retrieve that box
(36:45):
and just to go back on a point to you,
know whether you know his home may have been involved
in the location of of the. Homicides the one thing
that we can say is that it's not a coincidence
that his wife and family were away in three of the.
(37:08):
Murders and we're taking you, know LIKE i, said active.
Investigation we're at the. HOME i think somebody had mentioned
on the call here that we're taking the. House we
should take the, help AND i think that is the
plan to get every piece of evidence that we can
(37:28):
possibly get while we're inside of that home with.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Me Deputy Commissioner Anthony carter From Suffolk County, POLICE i
had to tell you, Something Deputy. Commissioner i'm the first
one to scream when police screw up an investigation because
it hurts me as a former prosecutor and a crime victim.
Myself BUT i am so impressed with your surveillance of,
(37:55):
hereman your identification of. HIM i know it's been a
long time, coming but this is a fresh homicide task.
Force this is a whole new look because this case
was ignored by prior. Administrations you guys come in there
like a barn on. Fire you find this. Guy you surveil.
Him you really look at the. Evidence then you catch
(38:17):
him discarding a pizza crust and get HIS dna which
matches up to OTHER. Dna you get his WIFE'S. Dna
do we have any? Idea can you comment on how
you did?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
That Deputy?
Speaker 9 (38:33):
Commissioner so same you, know same methodology in trying to
attain abandon. Examples you, know very similar fashion where we
were able to obtain recycled cans from their, look you,
know from where they.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Live so that's how you got the WIFE'S. Dna that's.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Correct, wow there's so MUCH i hardly know which way to.
Go but let me understand, Something Kristin, thorne anybody on
the panelan is the answer to? This the Way i'm
reading the affidavit and other, information was this idiot actually
traveling with A burner phone and his own private mobile
phone together Like. Coyburger you know you can see him
(39:15):
traveling away from the crime.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Scene did that? Happen does anybody?
Speaker 8 (39:19):
Know, well we know that they certainly there. Are they
certainly tracked the burner phones relationship and location Near Massapequa
park as well as His midtown, office and they called
that the box that was. There the points that they
used to, triangulate although in that word it would be three,
(39:40):
sides but the box would be four to really you,
know pinpoint that his, locations where he, was where he,
lives where he, worked we're also coordinating with the hits
from these burner.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Phones, okay break that down, too regular people.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Talk this is Todd SO i think what significance is
what you're, saying and what they alleged in the court
documents is that they found no instance where the suspect
was in a separate location from the other cell phones
when the communications occurred when he was talking to them
from the burner, phones and so at that significant that
they tied them together from those sotellar, records that his
(40:17):
phone was there and the burner phone was. There in
instances outside of the, calls his, phone you, know was not.
There so it's pretty.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Significant, okay that is entirely significant To Anthony, CARTER Wy police.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Commissioner what do you make of that?
Speaker 9 (40:35):
Theory, so you, KNOW i think when we talk about
some of the locations that we talked, about you, know
the burner phones versus his phone and trying to tie
that all, IN i think it was you, know it
was challenging because we, look we're looking at an area
of over fifteen hundred homes that also included a portion
(40:55):
of The Massapeaker, preserve and that also then opens up
which are hitting those cell towers to people that may
or may not even live in Massi, pequa may or
may not even live In Nasa. County SO i mean
that is one of the things behind the exhaustive effort
(41:15):
committed by the members and the Task force to try
to drill down and get the right information and the
right evidence to move us forward in the.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Case Christen thorn W Abc channel, seven what can you
tell me about recent revelations of a storage unit a.
Speaker 8 (41:34):
Search so we know that there's an active investigation right
now around a storage unit On Long, island and for
all we know and we believe that it is connected
to this. Investigation you, KNOW i think what they're going
to be looking. For AND i also noticed in the
indictment and we talk about his house and how they
do need to and are going to tear apart that,
(41:56):
house there were items missing from the, victims so, jewelry
some pieces of. Clothing those are things that would probably
be familiar to the family that the family told them
she used to always wear this, necklace this. Bracelet that's
very common we, find and so those things were, missing
and so those are the things that they're going to
be looking for in the house and in this potential storage.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Unit this is rapidly, Developing but for right, now what
do we?
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Know breaking today in The Long island serial killer, case
and arrest has been made in the death Of Tanya
jackson and her two year old, Daughter Tatiana. Dikes that
case had been connected to human but he had not
been charged for. Years she was simply known As peaches
because of a distinctive tattoo on her. Body Andrew, dikes sixty,
(42:44):
six has now appeared before A florida judge in connection
with The. Cays dikes is believed to be the father Of.
Tatiyana authorities are petitioning for his extradition To New.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
York the staggering number of bodies found is going to
overwhelm any. Jarar but it's the, truth and you cannot
hide the truth from a.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Jury we wait as justice. Unfolds goodbye, friend
Host
Nancy Grace
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