November 4, 2025 • 44 mins
Shortly after 7:40 a.m., Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in their car in their south Wichita neighborhood when a neighbor waves them down.
As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood on the woman's hands. The woman asks to borrow a phone to call 911, then takes off with the phone back into a house.
911 dispatch is called about a possible stabbing and relays a message to first responders that a woman says there has been a stabbing in her home.
Dispatch relays information that the person calling says the stabbing was in self-defense. She was trying to save herself from her mother.
Arriving at the home at 7:52 a.m., Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts on her hands and blood on her clothing.
Inside the house, they find 81-year-old Anita Avers unresponsive in her bed with multiple stab wounds. Both women are taken to the hospital.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jim Elliott - Attorney with Butler Snow, Legal Counsel for Various Georgia Municipalities and Other Governmental Entities
- Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dan Murphy - Former NYPD Detective-Sergeant, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Former Chief Security Officer, US Bancorp, Co-Host of "Gold Shields" Podcast, and Author: “Workplace Safety: Establishing an Effective Violence Prevention Program”
- Dr. Priya Banerjee - Board-certified Forensic Pathologist and Anatomic Pathologist, Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting
- Melissa McCarty- Reporter & Host of the “Killer Genes” podcast, Author of “The Making of a Crime Reporter;" TikTok: McCarty143, Instagram: MelissaMcCarty1
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamorous morning TV anchor
runs from a bedroom blood bath, deadly stabbing. I mean,
you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Angela and Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City
news scene, gained popularity as the morning show anchor for
Fox two. Her career was marked by her engaging presence
and dedication to delivering the news, not knowing she would
find herself back of the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom
leaves her mother eighty years old and apparently bedridden, stabbed dead.
What do we know and what did a glam morning
TV anchor have to do with it? Why was she
running out of the house drenched in blood?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
There was a.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Woman who came and approached our vehicle with blood like
her hands were filled, her body was filled with blood,
asking to conine one.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
One seven am. Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in
their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down.
As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood,
a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman
asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one,
then takes off with the phone back into a house.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Asked if she was a king, and she was pretty
chicken up and she seems scared and she just ran off.
That from our friends, say Kae straight out to Melissa
McCarty joining us, investigative reporter, hosts of the Killer Jeans podcast,
and author of a brand new book, The Making of
a Crime Reporter.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Melissa, thank you for being with us now.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Who is the woman sitting in a car that observes Angelaine,
the morning TV anchor, running out of the home covered
in blood.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Who is she?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend
and she watched everything unfold and she said she was
traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into
the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them,
begging for help. So obviously they stop and she's asking
for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell
(02:20):
phone and she takes it, runs inside the house and
doesn't return.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
The informant the neighbor refers to Angeline mock as this woman, specifically,
this woman, A lot of people are.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Going to get face to face with a turkey this Thursday,
because it is Thanksgiving and because.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
So many people are going to be fasting their turkey.
We do like to talk about grease and where it
should go.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
A lot of people don't know.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
That all that grease everybody on the block is cooking
a turkey, and that grease can be very problematic.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
That is from our friend's at Fox two knees, and
that is Angelaine Mock who ran from the home covered
in wood curious to Dan Murphy joining us former NYPD
detective sergeant on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and former
chief security officer, co host of a hit podcast, gold Shields.
(03:13):
Dan Murphy, you know this woman, the TV anchor, is
drenched in blood. When police finally get to the scene,
they find something even worse. Her eighty year old mother,
apparently bedridden, is stabbed dead in her own bed.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
That's the mom on the left. The mom is Anita Avers.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I think she actually turned eighty one just before her
stabbing death. So where do you even start with a
scene like that?
Speaker 8 (03:47):
Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want to
give any medical aid you can at this point if
the person is not clearly deceased, and even if they are,
a medical personnel have to come and attend to them,
which is going to disturb the scene a bit, but
it has to be done.
Speaker 9 (04:02):
Then you're going to want to preserve all the evidence
you can.
Speaker 8 (04:04):
And I've been in blood bets and you have to
walk gingerly around them and wear those little booties. But
it needs to be done because later on the evidence
is all going to speak.
Speaker 9 (04:13):
Through experts to a jury. So right now you're preserving.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Evidence and deserving you know, a piece of evidence that
is commonly fumbled through nobody's.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Fault, and that's footprints. When you have a bloodbath like
the one that happened at the home of.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
This Fox News anchor, every blood marking matters. It could
be spray back. For instance, this is a stabbing death.
The mother, an eighty one year old woman is stabbed
multiple times. Think ted Bundy right and the clubbing right.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's called throwback.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Where the victim is hit forcefully and then the perpetrator
swings back to strike again.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
That blood is cast off. Right.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
The cast off, if measured correctly, can determine maybe even
the height of the defendant.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
May be the position in which they were when the
attack occurred. You can tell how many times.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
If you can't tell from the body, you can tell
from the cast off how many times the person was stabbed,
because every time there's a swing back, it hits in
a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling.
And speaking of ceilings significant explain why ceilings are important
(05:39):
in a case like this, that they be processed just
like all the other blood evidence.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
Because blood evidence is airborne once it becomes a part
of cast off, and it will leave an impression upon
the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this,
that evidence is going to be important because the blood
spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel
who understands zerology. And you understand the science of blood
(06:06):
and how it moves and how it forms and what
formations look like when it's cast off of another. So
that preservation of evidence is vital. And you would want
to take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with
you as evidence.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units,
pieces of flooring cut out depending upon the nature of
the crime.
Speaker 9 (06:29):
Now this week, it became a homicide, You're going.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
To take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it.
But also you may want to take the actual physical
piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that
you can cut out, you may want to take it.
It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may
want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with
you in case it's challenged. But those pieces of evidence
(06:53):
are going to tell a story, and in thorough investigations,
I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and take it
into kasty.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
You know, we got started on this discussion talking about
floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined
really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
You know, everybody's.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Shoes have to be taken and there has to be
a print made of them to compare to bloody shee
prints if there are any on the floor.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
The only people that should go into.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
That room are the ones who are burdened with trying
to save a life.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
That's it. And then if they can't save the eighty
one year old mom's.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Life, they have to very gingually back out and get
the hay out of there so the work can begin
But when you're trying to save somebody's life, that's your
paramount concern. You're not worried about bloody footprints. Okay, let's
go back to what happened. This is it, and this
is a whole other can of worms.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Dan Murphy. This happened around seven a m.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Seven am, which statistically is very rare for a bloodbath,
a deadly blood bath to go down before breakfast.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Okay, listen nine.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
One one is called and relays a message to first responders.
A woman says there has been a stabbing in her
home this morning.
Speaker 10 (08:15):
At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded to a
stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of East Crowley.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
When officers arrived.
Speaker 10 (08:24):
On scene, they were met in the street with a
forty forty eight year old wife female who had suffered
from some cutting cuts to her hand.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer, Jim Elliott, attorney
with Butler Snow, legal counsel for multiple municipalities and governmental
entities at butlersnow dot com. Jim, thank you for being
with us, Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases
in court. Blood evidence is very trick especially if you
(09:01):
don't know what you're doing. But one thing I would
be looking at is the degree to which the blood
had coagulated at the time when EMTs and first responders
get there. And it's really difficult, Jim, You've been on
a lot of scenes. They're trying to save the eighty
(09:21):
one year old mom's life.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
They're not thinking has the blood coagulated.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
They're trying to resuscitate her and get her airlifted.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
To the hospital, where I would come.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
In as the prosecutor, is critical that we know whether
the blood had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's
kind of like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore.
It's more of a jello consistency that's coagulated. And the
(09:54):
harder it gets, the closer it gets to being dried.
In your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important
that we know whether the blood was still liquid as
in water, semi coagulated as in jello, are flat out dried.
Speaker 11 (10:16):
Well, Certainly I go to what time the crime actually occurred,
or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case, you're
only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the first
responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without a
great deal of exportition in that regard.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam.
We've got to have more than that. We have to
have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But
the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for
the entire CSI to arrive, and you could lose that
critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know
(10:53):
when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple
times in her bed. You know another thing, Elliott I
noticed this when prosecuting an inner city Atlanta, when the
victim is very young, like an infant, or very old.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
For some reason, those cases are.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Very often pled down to like manslaughter of some degree.
You got voluntary, you got involuntary.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I don't know why, but have you noticed that phenomena
used to.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Burn me up, like somehow, because the victim is really
young and hadn't lived yet as an infant or.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you notice that?
I'd love to see statistic on that.
Speaker 11 (11:37):
Well, that's certainly com be to take some I guess
that's kind of driven by the value of the life
at the time of the passing, you.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
All the elliottsverge of the events and picture blowing off
commercial break.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
The value of the life. You know what, You.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Sound a lot like a civil lawyer right now. For
you try to get a money verdict from a jury,
and you ask the jury to put a dollar value
on somebody's life. So what if they're old, Jim Elliott,
they're just not worth as much, Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
And put it out there.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
It's the usual.
Speaker 11 (12:15):
It's the usual measure of damages, Nancy. Whether it's morally
right or it's everyone's god of ethics or not. That's
the way our system works with regard to that measurement.
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a
lot of cases with civil juries.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And now I see why because you actually said that,
like it's true. Just because it is done, Elliott, does
not mean it should be done. That doesn't mean it's okay.
Just because it happens a dollar value on a life.
That premise right there is concerning to me. But that said,
Jim Elliott, I want you to tell me the truth.
(12:56):
Isn't it true that when the victim is an infant,
and you don't have a whole lot of cute Christmas
pictures and you know, baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney,
all that and a really old victim.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I am telling.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You it's anecdotal, not a statistic, that those plea deals
are cheaper than they are for just to say, a young,
vibrant man or woman.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Have you noticed that? Be honest?
Speaker 11 (13:23):
Yeah, it can be. I think with regard to the
younger people, you can't really paint a picture of their
life for the jury. That's what prosecutors would probably worry about.
With regard to an older person. Again, there's this there's
going to be this attitude that they live their life.
And you know, sadly it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
May be the attitude Elliott, but they don't bring it
to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries. Okay,
I'm going to let Elliott sit there and think about
what he just said and move this case forward.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Listen.
Speaker 12 (13:58):
Arriving at the home, it's seven fifty two am. Wichita
police find a woman outside the home with cuts in
her hands and blood on her clothing. Inside, they find
eighty one year old Anita avers Own, responsive in her
bed with multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Both women are taking to the hospital.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
Officers women inside the residence found an eighty one year
old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds. Both
were transported to local hospitals.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I got to Melissa McCarty joining us side, miss a reporter,
host of the Killer Jeans podcast, which is awesome Melissa
McCarty and author of the Making of a Crime Reporter.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Melissa, what can you tell me about the victims stabs?
What have you learned?
Speaker 5 (14:51):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as sar
As was an upper body her face. The specific areas
haven't released just yet, but she was attacked reportedly in
her bed with multiple stab woes.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Karen Starting joining me, a forensic psychologist, renowned TV radio
trauma expert consultant at Karenstart dot com. If you're looking
for her, it's Karen with a C.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Karen.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I want to talk to you about something that shocked
me to the core. And you know, Karen, you and
I bonded together in very very long hours in the
dark at Court TV studios where you and I would
sit there. I believe they were three or four hour
shifts we had watching trials live and commenting on them
(15:44):
whenever there would be a break. Even after all that,
after all the cases I've tried, after all the cases
you have worked on, I was so shocked with the
Brian Coburger attacks in that well, many things, but the
stabbing to the face of Killy Gonsolves and Maddie.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
I believe Killy Gonsolves.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
She was stabbed multiple times, but in her face alone
there were over twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a
trial lawyer, you're the shrink. But when a victim is
stabbed repeatedly in the face, there has got to be
a psychological motivation there. I don't know what it is,
but I bet you do.
Speaker 13 (16:37):
That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because she's trying
to wipe out her face. He's angry, even though he
had no contact with her. This is a guy who
just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He
was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person.
In some instances, Aukila will put a cover over somebody's
(16:59):
face of pillows, something to hide them. They just don't
want to see, and they want to obliterate that person.
She was beautiful and that really disturbed him, Like, let
me get rid of who she is in all her beauty,
because she doesn't want me.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
You know another thing, a Karen Stark, you know my mom.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Who's going to be ninety four in December and lives
with us. The act of stabbing a little old lady
in her bed, either bedridden or asleep. That's a whole
other level of evil right there.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I know no one's life is more valuable than another
person's life. I don't care if we're talking about a
movie star, TV star like Matthew Perry, or we're talking
about this eighty one year old ma.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
But to attack a.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Completely defenseless person, that's a whole another can of worms. Psychologically,
what is that? It's like shooting killing a mockingbird.
Speaker 13 (18:12):
That's true, But we don't really know, Nancy, what was
going on inside of that person's head.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Karen Stark, excuse me one moment.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Did I just hear you say it matters what's going
on inside that person's head, the stabber, the killer, I
don't care what's going on in their head unless they're
legally insane, doesn't matter, you know how many years it
took me to figure that out. It was either five
or seven, because I marked it. I would sit in
(18:43):
court looking over at the defendant, always a violent felon,
because everything else will get plat out, thinking why why
would they do this? Finally, I think it was year five.
I'm like, why am I asking why? It doesn't matter
what's going going on inside his head. I have a
case to prove, and I'm going to prove it. So
(19:06):
are you, as an eighty one year old bedridden woman
in her bed stabbed multiple times potentially in the face,
and you want me to figure out what's going on
in the killer's mind?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Did you say that?
Speaker 7 (19:25):
Now?
Speaker 13 (19:25):
I said, we don't know what's going on. But what
I was trying to say, Nancy, is that whoever this
person was, they had tremendous just like Codberger, rage, rage
to do so many stab wounds, rage to do somebody's
face if that actually happened. Something was going on with
(19:46):
they really did not want to make that person be recognizable.
They were obsessed in this.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Killer crime stories with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
College professors now have a high tech tool to catch
students who plagiarize, a software called turn it in analyzes
a student's paper for places it could have been copied
from other sources. It highlights the copied segments and even
gives a professor a percentage of the paper that was
not the results of the student's work in the first place.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
From our friends at Fox two.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
With over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist,
Angie Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically,
she now finds herself at the center of a murder.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Case, joining us Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The
Killer Jeans Melissa. Both women were transported to the hospital.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Describe their two.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Injuries because they are diametrically opposed.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Right.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds and when she was
transported she ended up dying at the hospital as pronoun
instead about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some
cuts on her hands and she was treated as.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Well and release. If I am not mistaken, she.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Was treated and released as right, very same day, very
same day.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please, Melissa McCarty, are you
telling me that the eighty one year old mother was
stabbed multiple times in the torso and possibly the face
and dies and the glamorous TV anchor had some cuts
on her hands?
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Is that right?
Speaker 7 (21:37):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
She was also covered in blood.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Covered in blood. Now I find it very curious to
Dave Mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious indeed,
how did the morning TV news anchor survive the attack
with a few cuts on her hands and her mother bedridden,
(22:05):
is the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
How does that happen? You know?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And Nancy, that's the question that they're going to have
to answer very quickly, because she was able to get
out of the house and.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Wave down help.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Remember Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is
waving down people for help and get the cell phone
from somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and
runs back into the house. So she's still got plenty
of energy, She's still able to get up and go
and ask for help. And yet her mother is there
in the bed having been massacred. So don't know what
(22:46):
exactly transpired, except she had plenty of energy to go
out and get help for herself.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Dave mac, do you know what you just did to me? Well,
you're talking about her mother.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I felt like a swallowed a lump of coal, like
something stuck in my throat. I just want to jump
up and run to get to my mom and check
on her. Okay, what you just brought up something really
interesting that I hadn't thought of. Not just that she
survived in maniacal Killer with a few cuts on her hands,
but somehow was drenched in blood.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Isn't that right, Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched
in blood all over the front of her right.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Correct, Dave Mac Back to you, So she's drenched in
blood from what the cuts on her hands, But you
brought up that she's still an excellent condition.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
No blow to the head, no gash, no wound to
her the back of her head.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
She is alert, she's not screaming, get the guy, Get
the guy. Somebody broke in her house. There's which reminds me.
Was there any sign of forced entry, Dave Mac at all?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
None, none whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy.
And like you said, she's got plenty of time and
energy to go around and go outside the house and
seek help, so she's able to have her thoughts. She's
not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought together. Here,
she's able to go outside and get help. And you know,
(24:18):
she didn't seem to be other than the blood on
her hands. Doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know, that's also curious.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
She says, she's not freaked out, but she did run
out of the house to borrow a stranger who was
a neighbor, but they didn't really know each other's phone,
grab the neighbor's phone, and then ran back into the
home with it. I wonder why she didn't use a
phone in the home or her own cell phone.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
If I found someone injured in our home, I would
not run out in the street to try to borrow
somebody's phone that may or may not be out there.
I would use the home phone if they have one,
or my cell phone.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
That's odd, isn't it. Don't you find that odd?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I found it odd that she ran outside the house
because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned,
she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the
wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean,
come on, you probably got in that home, You've probably
still got a wall, a phone on the wall, not
to mention several cell phones from the adults that are
there in the home. But instead of any of that,
(25:25):
she goes outside, and all I'm thinking if we're maybe
she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't know, Nancy,
it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Mother in bed outside afraid of the killer still in
the house.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I like that, Dave, He's got a future in fiction. Listen.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
The eighty one year old Anita Avers, found unresponsive in
her bed with multiple stab wounds, transported to the hospital,
as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached
police in the street when they arrived. Mock, a former
television news anchor report or, is treated and released from
the hospital.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Anjimu.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
I'm so excited to be here and I look forward
to cut me in with you guys out there in
Saint Louis.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
From Fox Too.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
The former news anchor was living with her eighty year
old mother in their Wichita home on Halloween night. The
spotlight shifted dramatically onto Mock as events took a dark turn.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
A dark turn.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, a dark turn.
It sounds like a mystery novel. This is no mystery novel,
and it's not a dark turn. It's murder, and it's
the murder of a defenseless eighty one year old woman,
apparently bed ridden.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You know, I just heard something to Melissa McCarty.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Is it true that the glam Morning TV anchor was living.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
With her mother? What? In her mother's home? Whose home
was that?
Speaker 5 (27:02):
That's what it seems so police have not gone on
the record to confirm it, but it seems as though
they were living together.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did angelin
mock end up unscathed?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
She was treated? What? Jim Elliott? They spread a little
back teen honor went goodbye, goodbye? What? And the mother's
dead stab multiple times? You don't found you don't have
a problem with that, because I do.
Speaker 11 (27:34):
Well, so I think you know. The difference is an
eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty
or thirty years younger, the younger person could arguably be
more able to defend herself than with her mother.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I
see where you're going with that, Doctor Prea. Banergy is
with us doctor Pria board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic
pathologists with Anchor Forensic Pathology consulting. Let's just see say
she's seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Pria, what
(28:08):
is the difference between a defensive stab wound and a
stab wound? You would get to your hands when you
are the attacker, for instance, your hand sliding down the knife,
unless you're like Brian Coberger who had a k bar
knife which has a hilt.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
What is a hilt? It looks like a cross. There
is a.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Section that turns the blade, it bisects it and if
you're the stabber, your hand would stop at the hilt. Okay,
So if there is a knife that does not have
a hilt, how can you tell the difference between a
(28:55):
wound sustained to the hand if you are the.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Stabber, is a defensive wound? Well, I think that could
be challenging.
Speaker 14 (29:04):
You need to look at where it is. If you're
putting your hands up this way on the back, that
is obviously defensive. You're not going to in any way
have the knife ub use the buck of your hand
to stab someone now, but on the palms and it's
really deep. Maybe you did have a grabbing motion.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Where the knife slip.
Speaker 14 (29:24):
Remember, repeated stabs make the knife bloody, would make it slippery.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Earlier, you heard a veteran trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe
why the morning TV news star could have escaped a
deranged killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger
than her eighty one year old mother. Typically, the state
does not have to prove motive. But I'd be very
(29:52):
curious to find out who would want to kill an
eighty one year old little old lady asleep in bed.
The degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms,
being very very physically active. Yes, I could see that
as an is cause. Let's take a look at Angeline
(30:14):
mock Well.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Ferrell's biggest fan Anngie mock Hey, big fan, right?
Speaker 7 (30:18):
Oh huge Lambert Airport, better get ready for me.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
You're going to be there, right Yeah, I'm Angie mock
is a former TV anchor who spent several years waking
up the Saint Louis area anchoring the Morning News on
Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter and anchor
working for Fox twenty five Oklahoma City, KLK in Nebraska,
now NBC Montana and others.
Speaker 7 (30:40):
I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things
that come to the Saint Louis area.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
How do we go about training like the professional watch
last curve ball?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Let straight it out?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Scary?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
That's aroun our friends at Fox two News, and we
showed you that to explain that Jim Elliott is absolutely correct.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
She's in great physical shape.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
So is that how she escapes the deranged killer and
her mother does not? To Mlissam McCarty joining us from
Killer Jeans, was there a force entry? Did first responders
see anyone leaving the home? Or did the neighbor who
lent her cell phone to mak did she see anyone
(31:25):
leaving the home or a car speeding away anything like that.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
There was no forced entry, and according to police, there
were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her
mom on responsive inside the home.
Speaker 7 (31:37):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Did she make a statement at all?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
To Dave Mack joining us investigative reporter Crime Stories, What
if anything did Angie Mock have to say?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of,
and only getting secondhand information about what or may not
have been said to the nine one one dispatcher.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What
did she say?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
She said that she did it in self defense, that
she was trying to save her own life, intimating that
it was a fight with her mother and she had
to use the knife to protect herself.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she
stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent
words were, she did it in self defense.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
What it was a killer be kill situation? Is that
what you're saying, Dave Mac That.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Is exactly what I am saying that she claims.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make.
Check out Angie Mock in that photo. Ouch, there's a
side by side.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
I don't want to be part of that.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Okay, Hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran trial lawyer.
I guess this is one of the reasons you tell
your clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to
believe that Angeline Mack was defending herself against her bedridden
mother and a killer be killed situation.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
I mean, how do you even look at a judge.
Speaker 11 (33:27):
She's going to have to explain that, And I mean
I guess they'll come up with some concept of who
knows physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something
of that sort that she may attribute it to.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott? Now again you're just
spinning it out it put that, please, Jim Elliott. I'm
you have children. I assume you read them the story
of Rumpel Stealskin.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Yes, of course, yes, Okay, so you know where I'm
going with this.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Rumpel Stealskin took Hay and he just spun it.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Out into gold.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And that's what you're doing right now, now do you,
Jim Elliott? And again, you're a veteran trial war law
your record shows you've want a lot of cases. You
represent multiple state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow coming
up with the theory that this anchor can I see her, please,
(34:20):
that the TV anchor who can add lib, who can rescript,
who can do all sorts stuff on air, antics that
she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental or emotional abuse.
Did you just throw that out as a possibility Jim Elliot.
Speaker 11 (34:42):
It's a possibility, certainly, and we don't know exactly. I mean,
all she said was to say myself. We don't know
what that means. We don't know what that means physically,
whether there are other issues that play in their relationship
or in her life or our mother's life. And I
think that has to be fully explored before we can understand.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
But she's going to have to explain my stars. I
need a shrink. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I need a shrink, Karen Stark, I'll forego the drink
and I'll stick with a shrink. You know, I don't
want to hear about any of your specific clients, But
how many times do your clients blame mommy?
Speaker 4 (35:29):
You know, I've started a fund for my daughter and
son for a shrink someday because I'm sure they're gonna
blame everything on me.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yes, mommy told me I was fill in the blank.
My mommy made me fill in that blank. It's all
mommy's fault.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Did you hear, Elliott? The woman is bedridden. She's eighty
one years old.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I don't know care what she told you when you
were five years old to stand up straight.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
And eat your vegetables. What did you hear that? Because
that's where this is going.
Speaker 13 (36:01):
It doesn't make any sense it really if you think
about it. Yes, mothers, fathers, they really affect their children
growing up, and that's a fact. Whatever is going on
this is we're talking now about an adult and a
mother who is eighty eighty one. There was no reason
for that to still be held over and something that's.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
In her psyche.
Speaker 13 (36:24):
At this point, she's gone on with her life and
she should be doing really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen,
because she's independent.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind. We
don't even know if there is anything that the now
dead mom did the eighty one year old.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
For all I know, she was an incredible mom. We're
just you are actually buying into Jim Elliott's theory that
maybe maybe this.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Woman was emotionally abused by her mom for years and
years and years, so.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
She just had a stab or dead.
Speaker 9 (37:00):
Well, that's the whole point.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
It doesn't matter what their relationship was like.
Speaker 13 (37:04):
It really does, announcing, because at this stage in her life,
she's a functioning we assume adult, and she should not
be caring any kind of feelings about her mother.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
That's interfering.
Speaker 13 (37:16):
What would make her Who would do that stab their
own mother?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
That hardly ever happens.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residents. Angeline
was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after
stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discovered her mother in bed
suffering from multiple stab womers.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
M okay, this is a tactic that will likely be
used by the state if this case goes forward. All
of the clips that we are showing you, every word
Angie Mock has uttered on air will be combed through
and used if.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Possible in court to show that she was in her
right mind.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I mean, well, this is why there's got to be
a mental defect defense because she blurted it out at
the Get and Go.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Listen, who probably raised.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
About five to six knives.
Speaker 9 (38:16):
And that's with her mom.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Yeah, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're leaving today.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
I don't know where my tissues are. That's all right,
family's in town. They're leaving today. That was from my
friends at K A K E and Fox too. I
want to hear that one more time.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
What she said on the scene or to the nine
one one dispatch, and then her crying about her family
leaving after the holiday.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Let's watch that one more time.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Who rais about five to six knives and that's with
her mom.
Speaker 11 (38:54):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 7 (38:57):
Yeah, oh it was wonderful. Family was in town.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
They're leaving it. I don't know where my tissues are.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
That's all right, Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft
ply tissues behind bars, miss Mark. That's from Ka Ka
and Fox too.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant and so much more,
author of workplace safety, co host Goal Shields podcast.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
It goes on and on and on thoughts.
Speaker 9 (39:23):
There's so many thoughts about this.
Speaker 8 (39:24):
When she came out of her house and said what
she said, allegedly, she's putting herself as the person responsible
for it. The reasons for it can get figured out
later when you look at this situation. She's living with
her mother for whatever reason, maybe as a caretaker, maybe
a financial.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Sorry, that's where our friends at Fox to everybody, I'm sorry, Dan,
go ahead.
Speaker 8 (39:49):
This is the life that's held her a very bad
set of hand bad hands, so to speak, set of cards.
She does not look like the same person. Something is
on a down slide to She blames the mother for
things in her life, sees the mother as holding her
back in many reasons. I would love to know the story,
the true dynamic in the relationship, why she's living there,
(40:10):
what caused this, in any other domestic calls there, what
would lead her to this?
Speaker 9 (40:16):
Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe she.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
S FA I'm sorry, but are you? Are you a
mental health professional because I thought you were a former
NYPD to.
Speaker 8 (40:25):
Take a sergeant I am, which is equivalent to a
master's in psychology in many ways.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is
not required.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
I don't care. I mean, my non prosecutor side does care.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
But I'm talking about the facts that we're going to
put in front of a jury. I am asking you.
You're the former NYPD, and I keep saying that because
you have more cases than practically any other jurisdiction in
the country that you have handled.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Personally analyze the facts.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
We'll deal with her mental defect defense that she's really
painting herself in a corner with because she came out
with self defense, So she's stuck with it. That's not
going away. She admitted she did it in self defense.
Of course I don't believe that, and I want to
hear what you think about the facts, not your amateur opinion,
(41:32):
as mine would be too.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
I'm not a shrink about why she did it. Why
does somebody's.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Stab a bed ridden eighty one year old woman, don't care.
Speaker 8 (41:42):
The bare fact scene cops get to the scene. She
lives in the home with the mother, and she is
covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who has
either embraced a dead body covered in blood or somebody
who himself was responsible for it. And the blood comes
out arterials and things like that. Second, she's got defensive
(42:02):
wounds potentially or potentially from a hand sliding down a
knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being used to
attack somebody.
Speaker 9 (42:09):
She makes a statement indicating she did it.
Speaker 8 (42:11):
There's no evidence of entry by anyone else into the residence.
She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility. The mother
is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed a threat
with a knife to her daughter. Fairfax, no other suspect.
Speaker 7 (42:26):
Here's a look at our top stories.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Several victims survive a hail of bullets and two separate shootings,
but those shootings were at the exact same location.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
A glamorous TV news anchor Mock stands charged with first
degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one
year old mother, Anita Avers. Mock is being held in
the Sedgwick County Jail on a one million dollar bail from.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
Fox Too at this hour.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
As of tonight when we go to air, this case
is still being built by.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
L eight law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
If you know or think you know anything about the
death of this eighty one year old mom, please dial
with SHAW PD three one six two six eight four
one one one, repeat three one six, two six, eight
four one one one and remember evil comes in many forms.
(43:21):
Do you think the devil always shows up at a
tux No, don't be fooled by a killer's appearance. Even
if she's a glamorous morning TV anchor, doesn't matter. Try
to keep your mind on the victim, maybe like your
own mother eighty one, bedridden, stabbed multiple times. Keep that
(43:46):
thought in your head. We remember an American hero, Detective
Corporal Christopher Mock, Saint Lucy County Sheriff's killed in a
light of duty after twenty one years on the force,
leaving behind a wife turned widow, Jennifer, and two grieving children.
American hero Detective Corporal Christopher Mock Nancy Grace signing off
(44:11):
good bye side
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamorous morning TV anchor
runs from a bedroom blood bath, deadly stabbing. I mean,
you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Angela and Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City
news scene, gained popularity as the morning show anchor for
Fox two. Her career was marked by her engaging presence
and dedication to delivering the news, not knowing she would
find herself back of the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom
leaves her mother eighty years old and apparently bedridden, stabbed dead.
What do we know and what did a glam morning
TV anchor have to do with it? Why was she
running out of the house drenched in blood?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
There was a.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Woman who came and approached our vehicle with blood like
her hands were filled, her body was filled with blood,
asking to conine one.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
One seven am. Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in
their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down.
As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood,
a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman
asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one,
then takes off with the phone back into a house.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Asked if she was a king, and she was pretty
chicken up and she seems scared and she just ran off.
That from our friends, say Kae straight out to Melissa
McCarty joining us, investigative reporter, hosts of the Killer Jeans podcast,
and author of a brand new book, The Making of
a Crime Reporter.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Melissa, thank you for being with us now.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Who is the woman sitting in a car that observes Angelaine,
the morning TV anchor, running out of the home covered
in blood.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Who is she?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend
and she watched everything unfold and she said she was
traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into
the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them,
begging for help. So obviously they stop and she's asking
for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell
(02:20):
phone and she takes it, runs inside the house and
doesn't return.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
The informant the neighbor refers to Angeline mock as this woman, specifically,
this woman, A lot of people are.
Speaker 6 (02:35):
Going to get face to face with a turkey this Thursday,
because it is Thanksgiving and because.
Speaker 7 (02:39):
So many people are going to be fasting their turkey.
We do like to talk about grease and where it
should go.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
A lot of people don't know.
Speaker 6 (02:45):
That all that grease everybody on the block is cooking
a turkey, and that grease can be very problematic.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
That is from our friend's at Fox two knees, and
that is Angelaine Mock who ran from the home covered
in wood curious to Dan Murphy joining us former NYPD
detective sergeant on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and former
chief security officer, co host of a hit podcast, gold Shields.
(03:13):
Dan Murphy, you know this woman, the TV anchor, is
drenched in blood. When police finally get to the scene,
they find something even worse. Her eighty year old mother,
apparently bedridden, is stabbed dead in her own bed.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
That's the mom on the left. The mom is Anita Avers.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I think she actually turned eighty one just before her
stabbing death. So where do you even start with a
scene like that?
Speaker 8 (03:47):
Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want to
give any medical aid you can at this point if
the person is not clearly deceased, and even if they are,
a medical personnel have to come and attend to them,
which is going to disturb the scene a bit, but
it has to be done.
Speaker 9 (04:02):
Then you're going to want to preserve all the evidence
you can.
Speaker 8 (04:04):
And I've been in blood bets and you have to
walk gingerly around them and wear those little booties. But
it needs to be done because later on the evidence
is all going to speak.
Speaker 9 (04:13):
Through experts to a jury. So right now you're preserving.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Evidence and deserving you know, a piece of evidence that
is commonly fumbled through nobody's.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Fault, and that's footprints. When you have a bloodbath like
the one that happened at the home of.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
This Fox News anchor, every blood marking matters. It could
be spray back. For instance, this is a stabbing death.
The mother, an eighty one year old woman is stabbed
multiple times. Think ted Bundy right and the clubbing right.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's called throwback.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Where the victim is hit forcefully and then the perpetrator
swings back to strike again.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
That blood is cast off. Right.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
The cast off, if measured correctly, can determine maybe even
the height of the defendant.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
May be the position in which they were when the
attack occurred. You can tell how many times.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
If you can't tell from the body, you can tell
from the cast off how many times the person was stabbed,
because every time there's a swing back, it hits in
a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling.
And speaking of ceilings significant explain why ceilings are important
(05:39):
in a case like this, that they be processed just
like all the other blood evidence.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
Because blood evidence is airborne once it becomes a part
of cast off, and it will leave an impression upon
the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this,
that evidence is going to be important because the blood
spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel
who understands zerology. And you understand the science of blood
(06:06):
and how it moves and how it forms and what
formations look like when it's cast off of another. So
that preservation of evidence is vital. And you would want
to take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with
you as evidence.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units,
pieces of flooring cut out depending upon the nature of
the crime.
Speaker 9 (06:29):
Now this week, it became a homicide, You're going.
Speaker 8 (06:32):
To take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it.
But also you may want to take the actual physical
piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that
you can cut out, you may want to take it.
It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may
want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with
you in case it's challenged. But those pieces of evidence
(06:53):
are going to tell a story, and in thorough investigations,
I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and take it
into kasty.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
You know, we got started on this discussion talking about
floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined
really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
You know, everybody's.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Shoes have to be taken and there has to be
a print made of them to compare to bloody shee
prints if there are any on the floor.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
The only people that should go into.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
That room are the ones who are burdened with trying
to save a life.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
That's it. And then if they can't save the eighty
one year old mom's.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Life, they have to very gingually back out and get
the hay out of there so the work can begin
But when you're trying to save somebody's life, that's your
paramount concern. You're not worried about bloody footprints. Okay, let's
go back to what happened. This is it, and this
is a whole other can of worms.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Dan Murphy. This happened around seven a m.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Seven am, which statistically is very rare for a bloodbath,
a deadly blood bath to go down before breakfast.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Okay, listen nine.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
One one is called and relays a message to first responders.
A woman says there has been a stabbing in her
home this morning.
Speaker 10 (08:15):
At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded to a
stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of East Crowley.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
When officers arrived.
Speaker 10 (08:24):
On scene, they were met in the street with a
forty forty eight year old wife female who had suffered
from some cutting cuts to her hand.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer, Jim Elliott, attorney
with Butler Snow, legal counsel for multiple municipalities and governmental
entities at butlersnow dot com. Jim, thank you for being
with us, Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases
in court. Blood evidence is very trick especially if you
(09:01):
don't know what you're doing. But one thing I would
be looking at is the degree to which the blood
had coagulated at the time when EMTs and first responders
get there. And it's really difficult, Jim, You've been on
a lot of scenes. They're trying to save the eighty
(09:21):
one year old mom's life.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
They're not thinking has the blood coagulated.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
They're trying to resuscitate her and get her airlifted.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
To the hospital, where I would come.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
In as the prosecutor, is critical that we know whether
the blood had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's
kind of like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore.
It's more of a jello consistency that's coagulated. And the
(09:54):
harder it gets, the closer it gets to being dried.
In your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important
that we know whether the blood was still liquid as
in water, semi coagulated as in jello, are flat out dried.
Speaker 11 (10:16):
Well, Certainly I go to what time the crime actually occurred,
or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case, you're
only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the first
responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without a
great deal of exportition in that regard.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam.
We've got to have more than that. We have to
have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But
the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for
the entire CSI to arrive, and you could lose that
critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know
(10:53):
when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple
times in her bed. You know another thing, Elliott I
noticed this when prosecuting an inner city Atlanta, when the
victim is very young, like an infant, or very old.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
For some reason, those cases are.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Very often pled down to like manslaughter of some degree.
You got voluntary, you got involuntary.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I don't know why, but have you noticed that phenomena
used to.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Burn me up, like somehow, because the victim is really
young and hadn't lived yet as an infant or.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you notice that?
I'd love to see statistic on that.
Speaker 11 (11:37):
Well, that's certainly com be to take some I guess
that's kind of driven by the value of the life
at the time of the passing, you.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
All the elliottsverge of the events and picture blowing off
commercial break.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
The value of the life. You know what, You.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Sound a lot like a civil lawyer right now. For
you try to get a money verdict from a jury,
and you ask the jury to put a dollar value
on somebody's life. So what if they're old, Jim Elliott,
they're just not worth as much, Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
And put it out there.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
It's the usual.
Speaker 11 (12:15):
It's the usual measure of damages, Nancy. Whether it's morally
right or it's everyone's god of ethics or not. That's
the way our system works with regard to that measurement.
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a
lot of cases with civil juries.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And now I see why because you actually said that,
like it's true. Just because it is done, Elliott, does
not mean it should be done. That doesn't mean it's okay.
Just because it happens a dollar value on a life.
That premise right there is concerning to me. But that said,
Jim Elliott, I want you to tell me the truth.
(12:56):
Isn't it true that when the victim is an infant,
and you don't have a whole lot of cute Christmas
pictures and you know, baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney,
all that and a really old victim.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I am telling.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You it's anecdotal, not a statistic, that those plea deals
are cheaper than they are for just to say, a young,
vibrant man or woman.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Have you noticed that? Be honest?
Speaker 11 (13:23):
Yeah, it can be. I think with regard to the
younger people, you can't really paint a picture of their
life for the jury. That's what prosecutors would probably worry about.
With regard to an older person. Again, there's this there's
going to be this attitude that they live their life.
And you know, sadly it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
May be the attitude Elliott, but they don't bring it
to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries. Okay,
I'm going to let Elliott sit there and think about
what he just said and move this case forward.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Listen.
Speaker 12 (13:58):
Arriving at the home, it's seven fifty two am. Wichita
police find a woman outside the home with cuts in
her hands and blood on her clothing. Inside, they find
eighty one year old Anita avers Own, responsive in her
bed with multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Both women are taking to the hospital.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
Officers women inside the residence found an eighty one year
old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds. Both
were transported to local hospitals.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I got to Melissa McCarty joining us side, miss a reporter,
host of the Killer Jeans podcast, which is awesome Melissa
McCarty and author of the Making of a Crime Reporter.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Melissa, what can you tell me about the victims stabs?
What have you learned?
Speaker 5 (14:51):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as sar
As was an upper body her face. The specific areas
haven't released just yet, but she was attacked reportedly in
her bed with multiple stab woes.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Karen Starting joining me, a forensic psychologist, renowned TV radio
trauma expert consultant at Karenstart dot com. If you're looking
for her, it's Karen with a C.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Karen.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I want to talk to you about something that shocked
me to the core. And you know, Karen, you and
I bonded together in very very long hours in the
dark at Court TV studios where you and I would
sit there. I believe they were three or four hour
shifts we had watching trials live and commenting on them
(15:44):
whenever there would be a break. Even after all that,
after all the cases I've tried, after all the cases
you have worked on, I was so shocked with the
Brian Coburger attacks in that well, many things, but the
stabbing to the face of Killy Gonsolves and Maddie.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
I believe Killy Gonsolves.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
She was stabbed multiple times, but in her face alone
there were over twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a
trial lawyer, you're the shrink. But when a victim is
stabbed repeatedly in the face, there has got to be
a psychological motivation there. I don't know what it is,
but I bet you do.
Speaker 13 (16:37):
That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because she's trying
to wipe out her face. He's angry, even though he
had no contact with her. This is a guy who
just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He
was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person.
In some instances, Aukila will put a cover over somebody's
(16:59):
face of pillows, something to hide them. They just don't
want to see, and they want to obliterate that person.
She was beautiful and that really disturbed him, Like, let
me get rid of who she is in all her beauty,
because she doesn't want me.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
You know another thing, a Karen Stark, you know my mom.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Who's going to be ninety four in December and lives
with us. The act of stabbing a little old lady
in her bed, either bedridden or asleep. That's a whole
other level of evil right there.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I know no one's life is more valuable than another
person's life. I don't care if we're talking about a
movie star, TV star like Matthew Perry, or we're talking
about this eighty one year old ma.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
But to attack a.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Completely defenseless person, that's a whole another can of worms. Psychologically,
what is that? It's like shooting killing a mockingbird.
Speaker 13 (18:12):
That's true, But we don't really know, Nancy, what was
going on inside of that person's head.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Karen Stark, excuse me one moment.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Did I just hear you say it matters what's going
on inside that person's head, the stabber, the killer, I
don't care what's going on in their head unless they're
legally insane, doesn't matter, you know how many years it
took me to figure that out. It was either five
or seven, because I marked it. I would sit in
(18:43):
court looking over at the defendant, always a violent felon,
because everything else will get plat out, thinking why why
would they do this? Finally, I think it was year five.
I'm like, why am I asking why? It doesn't matter
what's going going on inside his head. I have a
case to prove, and I'm going to prove it. So
(19:06):
are you, as an eighty one year old bedridden woman
in her bed stabbed multiple times potentially in the face,
and you want me to figure out what's going on
in the killer's mind?
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Did you say that?
Speaker 7 (19:25):
Now?
Speaker 13 (19:25):
I said, we don't know what's going on. But what
I was trying to say, Nancy, is that whoever this
person was, they had tremendous just like Codberger, rage, rage
to do so many stab wounds, rage to do somebody's
face if that actually happened. Something was going on with
(19:46):
they really did not want to make that person be recognizable.
They were obsessed in this.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Killer crime stories with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
College professors now have a high tech tool to catch
students who plagiarize, a software called turn it in analyzes
a student's paper for places it could have been copied
from other sources. It highlights the copied segments and even
gives a professor a percentage of the paper that was
not the results of the student's work in the first place.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
From our friends at Fox two.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
With over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist,
Angie Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically,
she now finds herself at the center of a murder.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Case, joining us Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The
Killer Jeans Melissa. Both women were transported to the hospital.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Describe their two.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Injuries because they are diametrically opposed.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Right.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds and when she was
transported she ended up dying at the hospital as pronoun
instead about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some
cuts on her hands and she was treated as.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Well and release. If I am not mistaken, she.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Was treated and released as right, very same day, very
same day.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please, Melissa McCarty, are you
telling me that the eighty one year old mother was
stabbed multiple times in the torso and possibly the face
and dies and the glamorous TV anchor had some cuts
on her hands?
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Is that right?
Speaker 7 (21:37):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
She was also covered in blood.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Covered in blood. Now I find it very curious to
Dave Mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious indeed,
how did the morning TV news anchor survive the attack
with a few cuts on her hands and her mother bedridden,
(22:05):
is the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead?
Speaker 4 (22:11):
How does that happen? You know?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
And Nancy, that's the question that they're going to have
to answer very quickly, because she was able to get
out of the house and.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Wave down help.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Remember Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is
waving down people for help and get the cell phone
from somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and
runs back into the house. So she's still got plenty
of energy, She's still able to get up and go
and ask for help. And yet her mother is there
in the bed having been massacred. So don't know what
(22:46):
exactly transpired, except she had plenty of energy to go
out and get help for herself.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Dave mac, do you know what you just did to me? Well,
you're talking about her mother.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I felt like a swallowed a lump of coal, like
something stuck in my throat. I just want to jump
up and run to get to my mom and check
on her. Okay, what you just brought up something really
interesting that I hadn't thought of. Not just that she
survived in maniacal Killer with a few cuts on her hands,
but somehow was drenched in blood.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Isn't that right, Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched
in blood all over the front of her right.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Correct, Dave Mac Back to you, So she's drenched in
blood from what the cuts on her hands, But you
brought up that she's still an excellent condition.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
No blow to the head, no gash, no wound to
her the back of her head.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
She is alert, she's not screaming, get the guy, Get
the guy. Somebody broke in her house. There's which reminds me.
Was there any sign of forced entry, Dave Mac at all?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
None, none whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy.
And like you said, she's got plenty of time and
energy to go around and go outside the house and
seek help, so she's able to have her thoughts. She's
not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought together. Here,
she's able to go outside and get help. And you know,
(24:18):
she didn't seem to be other than the blood on
her hands. Doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
You know, that's also curious.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
She says, she's not freaked out, but she did run
out of the house to borrow a stranger who was
a neighbor, but they didn't really know each other's phone,
grab the neighbor's phone, and then ran back into the
home with it. I wonder why she didn't use a
phone in the home or her own cell phone.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
If I found someone injured in our home, I would
not run out in the street to try to borrow
somebody's phone that may or may not be out there.
I would use the home phone if they have one,
or my cell phone.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
That's odd, isn't it. Don't you find that odd?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I found it odd that she ran outside the house
because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned,
she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the
wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean,
come on, you probably got in that home, You've probably
still got a wall, a phone on the wall, not
to mention several cell phones from the adults that are
there in the home. But instead of any of that,
(25:25):
she goes outside, and all I'm thinking if we're maybe
she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't know, Nancy,
it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Mother in bed outside afraid of the killer still in
the house.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I like that, Dave, He's got a future in fiction. Listen.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
The eighty one year old Anita Avers, found unresponsive in
her bed with multiple stab wounds, transported to the hospital,
as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached
police in the street when they arrived. Mock, a former
television news anchor report or, is treated and released from
the hospital.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Anjimu.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
I'm so excited to be here and I look forward
to cut me in with you guys out there in
Saint Louis.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
From Fox Too.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
The former news anchor was living with her eighty year
old mother in their Wichita home on Halloween night. The
spotlight shifted dramatically onto Mock as events took a dark turn.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
A dark turn.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig, a dark turn.
It sounds like a mystery novel. This is no mystery novel,
and it's not a dark turn. It's murder, and it's
the murder of a defenseless eighty one year old woman,
apparently bed ridden.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You know, I just heard something to Melissa McCarty.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Is it true that the glam Morning TV anchor was living.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
With her mother? What? In her mother's home? Whose home
was that?
Speaker 5 (27:02):
That's what it seems so police have not gone on
the record to confirm it, but it seems as though
they were living together.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did angelin
mock end up unscathed?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
She was treated? What? Jim Elliott? They spread a little
back teen honor went goodbye, goodbye? What? And the mother's
dead stab multiple times? You don't found you don't have
a problem with that, because I do.
Speaker 11 (27:34):
Well, so I think you know. The difference is an
eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty
or thirty years younger, the younger person could arguably be
more able to defend herself than with her mother.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I
see where you're going with that, Doctor Prea. Banergy is
with us doctor Pria board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic
pathologists with Anchor Forensic Pathology consulting. Let's just see say
she's seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Pria, what
(28:08):
is the difference between a defensive stab wound and a
stab wound? You would get to your hands when you
are the attacker, for instance, your hand sliding down the knife,
unless you're like Brian Coberger who had a k bar
knife which has a hilt.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
What is a hilt? It looks like a cross. There
is a.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Section that turns the blade, it bisects it and if
you're the stabber, your hand would stop at the hilt. Okay,
So if there is a knife that does not have
a hilt, how can you tell the difference between a
(28:55):
wound sustained to the hand if you are the.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Stabber, is a defensive wound? Well, I think that could
be challenging.
Speaker 14 (29:04):
You need to look at where it is. If you're
putting your hands up this way on the back, that
is obviously defensive. You're not going to in any way
have the knife ub use the buck of your hand
to stab someone now, but on the palms and it's
really deep. Maybe you did have a grabbing motion.
Speaker 7 (29:23):
Where the knife slip.
Speaker 14 (29:24):
Remember, repeated stabs make the knife bloody, would make it slippery.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Earlier, you heard a veteran trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe
why the morning TV news star could have escaped a
deranged killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger
than her eighty one year old mother. Typically, the state
does not have to prove motive. But I'd be very
(29:52):
curious to find out who would want to kill an
eighty one year old little old lady asleep in bed.
The degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms,
being very very physically active. Yes, I could see that
as an is cause. Let's take a look at Angeline
(30:14):
mock Well.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Ferrell's biggest fan Anngie mock Hey, big fan, right?
Speaker 7 (30:18):
Oh huge Lambert Airport, better get ready for me.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
You're going to be there, right Yeah, I'm Angie mock
is a former TV anchor who spent several years waking
up the Saint Louis area anchoring the Morning News on
Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter and anchor
working for Fox twenty five Oklahoma City, KLK in Nebraska,
now NBC Montana and others.
Speaker 7 (30:40):
I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things
that come to the Saint Louis area.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
How do we go about training like the professional watch
last curve ball?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Let straight it out?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Scary?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
That's aroun our friends at Fox two News, and we
showed you that to explain that Jim Elliott is absolutely correct.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
She's in great physical shape.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
So is that how she escapes the deranged killer and
her mother does not? To Mlissam McCarty joining us from
Killer Jeans, was there a force entry? Did first responders
see anyone leaving the home? Or did the neighbor who
lent her cell phone to mak did she see anyone
(31:25):
leaving the home or a car speeding away anything like that.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
There was no forced entry, and according to police, there
were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her
mom on responsive inside the home.
Speaker 7 (31:37):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Did she make a statement at all?
Speaker 1 (31:42):
To Dave Mack joining us investigative reporter Crime Stories, What
if anything did Angie Mock have to say?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of,
and only getting secondhand information about what or may not
have been said to the nine one one dispatcher.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What
did she say?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
She said that she did it in self defense, that
she was trying to save her own life, intimating that
it was a fight with her mother and she had
to use the knife to protect herself.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she
stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent
words were, she did it in self defense.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
What it was a killer be kill situation? Is that
what you're saying, Dave Mac That.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Is exactly what I am saying that she claims.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make.
Check out Angie Mock in that photo. Ouch, there's a
side by side.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
I don't want to be part of that.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Okay, Hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran trial lawyer.
I guess this is one of the reasons you tell
your clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to
believe that Angeline Mack was defending herself against her bedridden
mother and a killer be killed situation.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
I mean, how do you even look at a judge.
Speaker 11 (33:27):
She's going to have to explain that, And I mean
I guess they'll come up with some concept of who
knows physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something
of that sort that she may attribute it to.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott? Now again you're just
spinning it out it put that, please, Jim Elliott. I'm
you have children. I assume you read them the story
of Rumpel Stealskin.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Yes, of course, yes, Okay, so you know where I'm
going with this.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Rumpel Stealskin took Hay and he just spun it.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
Out into gold.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And that's what you're doing right now, now do you,
Jim Elliott? And again, you're a veteran trial war law
your record shows you've want a lot of cases. You
represent multiple state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow coming
up with the theory that this anchor can I see her, please,
(34:20):
that the TV anchor who can add lib, who can rescript,
who can do all sorts stuff on air, antics that
she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental or emotional abuse.
Did you just throw that out as a possibility Jim Elliot.
Speaker 11 (34:42):
It's a possibility, certainly, and we don't know exactly. I mean,
all she said was to say myself. We don't know
what that means. We don't know what that means physically,
whether there are other issues that play in their relationship
or in her life or our mother's life. And I
think that has to be fully explored before we can understand.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
But she's going to have to explain my stars. I
need a shrink. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
I need a shrink, Karen Stark, I'll forego the drink
and I'll stick with a shrink. You know, I don't
want to hear about any of your specific clients, But
how many times do your clients blame mommy?
Speaker 4 (35:29):
You know, I've started a fund for my daughter and
son for a shrink someday because I'm sure they're gonna
blame everything on me.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yes, mommy told me I was fill in the blank.
My mommy made me fill in that blank. It's all
mommy's fault.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Did you hear, Elliott? The woman is bedridden. She's eighty
one years old.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I don't know care what she told you when you
were five years old to stand up straight.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
And eat your vegetables. What did you hear that? Because
that's where this is going.
Speaker 13 (36:01):
It doesn't make any sense it really if you think
about it. Yes, mothers, fathers, they really affect their children
growing up, and that's a fact. Whatever is going on
this is we're talking now about an adult and a
mother who is eighty eighty one. There was no reason
for that to still be held over and something that's.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
In her psyche.
Speaker 13 (36:24):
At this point, she's gone on with her life and
she should be doing really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen,
because she's independent.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind. We
don't even know if there is anything that the now
dead mom did the eighty one year old.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
For all I know, she was an incredible mom. We're
just you are actually buying into Jim Elliott's theory that
maybe maybe this.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Woman was emotionally abused by her mom for years and
years and years, so.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
She just had a stab or dead.
Speaker 9 (37:00):
Well, that's the whole point.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
It doesn't matter what their relationship was like.
Speaker 13 (37:04):
It really does, announcing, because at this stage in her life,
she's a functioning we assume adult, and she should not
be caring any kind of feelings about her mother.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
That's interfering.
Speaker 13 (37:16):
What would make her Who would do that stab their
own mother?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
That hardly ever happens.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residents. Angeline
was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after
stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discovered her mother in bed
suffering from multiple stab womers.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
M okay, this is a tactic that will likely be
used by the state if this case goes forward. All
of the clips that we are showing you, every word
Angie Mock has uttered on air will be combed through
and used if.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Possible in court to show that she was in her
right mind.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I mean, well, this is why there's got to be
a mental defect defense because she blurted it out at
the Get and Go.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Listen, who probably raised.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
About five to six knives.
Speaker 9 (38:16):
And that's with her mom.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Yeah, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're leaving today.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
I don't know where my tissues are. That's all right,
family's in town. They're leaving today. That was from my
friends at K A K E and Fox too. I
want to hear that one more time.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
What she said on the scene or to the nine
one one dispatch, and then her crying about her family
leaving after the holiday.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Let's watch that one more time.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Who rais about five to six knives and that's with
her mom.
Speaker 11 (38:54):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 7 (38:57):
Yeah, oh it was wonderful. Family was in town.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
They're leaving it. I don't know where my tissues are.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
That's all right, Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft
ply tissues behind bars, miss Mark. That's from Ka Ka
and Fox too.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant and so much more,
author of workplace safety, co host Goal Shields podcast.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
It goes on and on and on thoughts.
Speaker 9 (39:23):
There's so many thoughts about this.
Speaker 8 (39:24):
When she came out of her house and said what
she said, allegedly, she's putting herself as the person responsible
for it. The reasons for it can get figured out
later when you look at this situation. She's living with
her mother for whatever reason, maybe as a caretaker, maybe
a financial.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Sorry, that's where our friends at Fox to everybody, I'm sorry, Dan,
go ahead.
Speaker 8 (39:49):
This is the life that's held her a very bad
set of hand bad hands, so to speak, set of cards.
She does not look like the same person. Something is
on a down slide to She blames the mother for
things in her life, sees the mother as holding her
back in many reasons. I would love to know the story,
the true dynamic in the relationship, why she's living there,
(40:10):
what caused this, in any other domestic calls there, what
would lead her to this?
Speaker 9 (40:16):
Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe she.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
S FA I'm sorry, but are you? Are you a
mental health professional because I thought you were a former
NYPD to.
Speaker 8 (40:25):
Take a sergeant I am, which is equivalent to a
master's in psychology in many ways.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is
not required.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
I don't care. I mean, my non prosecutor side does care.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
But I'm talking about the facts that we're going to
put in front of a jury. I am asking you.
You're the former NYPD, and I keep saying that because
you have more cases than practically any other jurisdiction in
the country that you have handled.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Personally analyze the facts.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
We'll deal with her mental defect defense that she's really
painting herself in a corner with because she came out
with self defense, So she's stuck with it. That's not
going away. She admitted she did it in self defense.
Of course I don't believe that, and I want to
hear what you think about the facts, not your amateur opinion,
(41:32):
as mine would be too.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
I'm not a shrink about why she did it. Why
does somebody's.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Stab a bed ridden eighty one year old woman, don't care.
Speaker 8 (41:42):
The bare fact scene cops get to the scene. She
lives in the home with the mother, and she is
covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who has
either embraced a dead body covered in blood or somebody
who himself was responsible for it. And the blood comes
out arterials and things like that. Second, she's got defensive
(42:02):
wounds potentially or potentially from a hand sliding down a
knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being used to
attack somebody.
Speaker 9 (42:09):
She makes a statement indicating she did it.
Speaker 8 (42:11):
There's no evidence of entry by anyone else into the residence.
She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility. The mother
is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed a threat
with a knife to her daughter. Fairfax, no other suspect.
Speaker 7 (42:26):
Here's a look at our top stories.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Several victims survive a hail of bullets and two separate shootings,
but those shootings were at the exact same location.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
A glamorous TV news anchor Mock stands charged with first
degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one
year old mother, Anita Avers. Mock is being held in
the Sedgwick County Jail on a one million dollar bail from.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
Fox Too at this hour.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
As of tonight when we go to air, this case
is still being built by.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
L eight law enforcement.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
If you know or think you know anything about the
death of this eighty one year old mom, please dial
with SHAW PD three one six two six eight four
one one one, repeat three one six, two six, eight
four one one one and remember evil comes in many forms.
(43:21):
Do you think the devil always shows up at a
tux No, don't be fooled by a killer's appearance. Even
if she's a glamorous morning TV anchor, doesn't matter. Try
to keep your mind on the victim, maybe like your
own mother eighty one, bedridden, stabbed multiple times. Keep that
(43:46):
thought in your head. We remember an American hero, Detective
Corporal Christopher Mock, Saint Lucy County Sheriff's killed in a
light of duty after twenty one years on the force,
leaving behind a wife turned widow, Jennifer, and two grieving children.
American hero Detective Corporal Christopher Mock Nancy Grace signing off
(44:11):
good bye side
Host
Nancy Grace
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