December 28, 2025 • 45 mins
Shortly after 7:40 a.m., Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in their car in their south Wichita neighborhood when a neighbor waves them down.
As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood on the woman's hands. The woman asks to borrow a phone to call 911, then takes off with the phone back into a house.
911 dispatch is called about a possible stabbing and relays a message to first responders that a woman says there has been a stabbing in her home.
Dispatch relays information that the person calling says the stabbing was in self-defense. She was trying to save herself from her mother.
Arriving at the home at 7:52 a.m., Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts on her hands and blood on her clothing.
Inside the house, they find 81-year-old Anita Avers unresponsive in her bed with multiple stab wounds. Both women are taken to the hospital. Mock is ultimately charged with murder.
This month, Angelynn "Angie" Mock is undergoing a court-ordered mental competency evaluation. This has temporarily paused her first-degree murder case. The evaluation process typically takes 60 days.
A new court date has not yet been scheduled.
- Arrest and Charge: Mock was arrested on October 31, 2025, and charged with first-degree murder in the stabbing death of her 80-year-old mother, Anita Avers, in Wichita, Kansas.
- Custody Status: She remains in custody at the Sedgwick County Jail on a $1 million bond.
- Competency Evaluation: Her attorney requested a mental health evaluation, which was granted by a Sedgwick County judge on November 14, 2025. The case was taken off the docket while the evaluation is completed, a process that typically takes around 60 days. The evaluation will determine if she is mentally fit to stand trial.
- Alleged Motive/Context: According to a police affidavit, Mock, who has a history of mental health issues including a diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder, told police she stabbed her mother in self-defense, claiming her mother was the devil. Her stepfather reported that Mock had experienced delusions in the past, including saying "They're all robots" or "They're not real people".
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jim Elliott - Attorney with Butler Snow, Legal Counsel for Various Georgia Municipalities and Other Governmental Entities
- Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dan Murphy - Former NYPD Detective-Sergeant, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Former Chief Security Officer, US Bancorp, Co-Host of "Gold Shields" Podcast, and Author: “Workplace Safety: Establishing an Effective Violence Prevention Program”
- Dr. Priya Banerjee - Board-certified Forensic Pathologist and Anatomic Pathologist, Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting
- Melissa McCarty - Reporter & Host of the “Killer Genes” podcast, Author of “The Making of a Crime Reporter;" TikTok: McCarty143, Instagram: MelissaMcCarty1
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamorous morning TV anchor,
runs from a bedroom blood bath, deadly stabbing. I mean
you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Angela and Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City
news scene, gained popularity as the morning show anchor for
Fox two. Her career was marked by her engaging presence
and dedication to delivering the news, not knowing she would
find herself back in the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom
leaves her mother, eighty years old, stabbed dead.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What do we know?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Locke is currently undergoing a court ordered mental competency evaluation.
This has temporarily paused her first degree murder case. A
new court date has not yet been scheduled. Her attorney
requested the evaluation. This process typically takes around sixty days.
The evaluation will determine if she is mentally fit to
(01:12):
stand trial. According to a police Sabadavid Mock, who has
a history of mental health issues, including a diagnosis of
schizo effective disorder, told police she stabbed her mother in
self defense, claiming her mother was the devil. Mock's stepfather
reported that Mock had experienced delusions in the past, including
saying they are all robots or they are not real people.
(01:36):
Mock remains in custody at the Sedgwick County Jail on
a one million dollar bond. Again, a new trial date
has not been scheduled.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
How did we get here? Listen?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
There was a woman who came and approached our vegal
with blood like her hands were filled, her body was
filled of blood, asking to conine one.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
One seven am. A Lissa Castro and her boyfriend are
in their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down.
As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood,
a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman
asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one,
then takes off with the phone back into a house.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Foster if she was a king and she was pretty
shicken up and she seems scared and she just ran.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Off that from our friends, say Kae straight out to
Melissa McCarty, joining US investigative reporter, hosts of the Killer
Jeans podcast, and author of a brandy book, The Making
of a Crime Reporter.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Melissa, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Now, who is the woman sitting in a car that
observes Angelaine, the morning TV anchor, running out of the
home covered in blood.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Who is she?
Speaker 7 (02:48):
She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend
and she watched everything unfold and she said she was
traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into
the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them,
begging for help. So obviously they stop and she's asking
for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell
(03:09):
phone and she takes it, runs inside the house and
doesn't return.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
The informant the neighbor refers to Angeline Mock as this woman, specifically,
this woman.
Speaker 8 (03:23):
A lot of people are going to get face to
face with a turkey this Thursday, because it is Thanksgiving
and because so many people are going to be basing
their turkey.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
We do like to talk about grease and where it
should go. A lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 8 (03:34):
All that grease everybody on the block is cooking a turkey,
and that grease can be very problematic.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
That is from our friends at Fox two News, and
that is Angeline Mock who ran from the home covered
in blood. Curious to Dan Murphy joining US former NYPD
detective sergeant on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and former
chief security officer co host of podcast gold Shields. Dan Murphy,
(04:03):
you know this woman, the TV anchor, is drenched in blood.
When police finally get to the scene, they find something
even worse. Her eighty year old mother, apparently bed ridden,
is stabbed dead in her own bed. That's the mom
on the left.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
The mom is Anita Avers.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think she actually turned eighty one just before her
stabbing death.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So where do you even start with a scene like.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
That, Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want
to give any medical aid you can at this point
if the person is not clearly deceased, and even if
they are, a medical personnel have to come and attend
to them, which is going to disturb the scene a bit,
but it has to be done. Then you're going to
want to preserve all the evidence you can. And I've
been in blood bets and you have to walk gingerly
(04:56):
around them and wear those little booties. But it needs
to be done because later on the evidence is all
going to speak through experts to a jury. So right now,
you're preserving evidence.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
You know a piece of evidence that is commonly fumbled
through nobody's.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Fault, and that's footprints.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
When you have a blood bath like the one that
happened at the home of this Fox News anchor, every
blood marking matters. It could be spray back. For instance,
this is a stabbing death. The mother, an eighty one
year old woman is stabbed multiple times. Think ted Bundy
(05:38):
right and the clubbing right. That's called throwback. Where the
victim is hit forcefully and then the perpetrator swings back
to strike again.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
That blood is cast off right.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
The cast off, if measured correctly, can determine maybe even
the height of the defendant, may be the position in
which they were when.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The attack occurred. You can tell how many times.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
If you can't tell from the body, you can tell
from the cast off how many times the person was stabbed,
because every time there's a swing back, it hits in
a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling.
And speaking of ceilings, significant explain why ceilings are important
(06:27):
in a case like this, that they be processed just
like all the other blood evidence.
Speaker 9 (06:33):
Because blood evidence is airborne. Once it becomes a part
of cast off and it will leave an impression upon
the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this,
that evidence is going to be important because the blood
spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel.
Understand zerology, and you understand the science of blood and
(06:55):
how it moves and how it forms and what formations
look like when it's cast off of anoder So that
preservation of evidence is vital, and you would want to
take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with
you as evidence.
Speaker 9 (07:11):
I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units,
pieces of flooring cut out, depending upon the nature of
the crime. Now this week it became a homicide. You're
going to take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it.
But also you may want to take the actual physical
piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that
you can cut out, you may want to take it.
It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may
(07:34):
want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with
you in case it's challenge But those pieces of evidence
are going to tell a story and in thorough investigations.
I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and taken into custody.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know, we got started on this discussion talking about
floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined
really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You know, everybody's.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Shoes have to be taken and there has to be
a print made of them to compare to bloody shee
prints if there are any on the floor.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
The only people that should go into that room are
the ones who are burdened with trying to save a life.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And then if they can't save the eighty one year
old mom's life, they have to very gingerly back out
and get the hay out of.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
There so the work can begin.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But when you're trying to save somebody's life, that's your
paramount concern. You're not worried about bloody footprints. Okay, let's
go back to what happened. This is it, and this
is a whole other can of worms, Dan Murphy. This
happened around seven a m. Seven am, which statistically it
is very rare for a bloodbath, a deadly blood bath,
to go down before breakfast.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Okay, listen, Nine.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
One one is called and relays a message to first responders.
A woman says there has been a stabbing in her home.
Speaker 10 (09:03):
This morning. At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded
to a stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of
East Crowley. When officers arrived on scene, they were met
in the street with a forty forty eight year old
white female who had suffered from some cutting cuts to
(09:26):
her hand.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer, Jim Elliott, attorney
with Butler Snow Legal Council for Multiple Municipalities and Governmental
Entities at butlersnow dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Jim, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases in court.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Blood evidence is very tricky, especially if you don't know
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But one thing I would be looking at is the
degree to which the blood had coagulated time when amts
and first responders get there, and it's really difficult. Jim,
You've been on a lot of scenes. They're trying to
save the eighty one year old mom's life.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
They're not thinking has the blood coagulated.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
They're trying to resuscitate her and get her airlifted.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
To the hospital where I would come.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
In as the prosecutor is critical that we know whether
the blood had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's
kind of like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore.
It's more of a jello consistency that's coagulated. And the
(10:43):
harder it gets, the closer it gets to being dried.
In your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important
that we know whether the blood was still liquid as
in water, semilated as in jello, are flat out dried?
Speaker 11 (11:04):
Well, Certainly, I go to what time the crime actually occurred,
or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case you're
only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the first
responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without a
great deal of expertise in that regard.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam.
We've got to have more than that. We have to
have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But
the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for
the entire CSI to arrive and you could lose that
critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know
(11:42):
when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple
times in her bed.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know another thing.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Elliot, I noticed this when prosecuting in inner city Atlanta,
when the victim is very young, like an infant, or
very old. For so reason, those cases are very often
pled down to like manslaughter of some degree. You got voluntary,
you got involuntary. I don't know why, but have you
(12:13):
noticed that phenomena used to burn me up? Like somehow
because the victim is really young and hadn't lived yet
as an infant.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Or really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you notice that.
I'd love to see statistic on that.
Speaker 11 (12:26):
Well, that's certainly can be to take some I guess
that's kind of driven by the value of the life
at the.
Speaker 12 (12:30):
Time of the passing. You all the.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Elliots of the events and blowing off commercial break the
value of the life.
Speaker 12 (12:44):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You sound a lot like a civil lawyer right now,
where you try to get a money verdict from a
jury and you ask the jury to put a dollar
value on somebody's life. So what if they're old, Jim Elliott,
they're just not earth as much.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Go ahead, put it out there.
Speaker 12 (13:03):
It's the usual. It's the usual measure of damages.
Speaker 11 (13:06):
Nancy whether it's morally right or it's everyone's code of
ethics or not. That's the way our system works.
Speaker 12 (13:13):
With regard to that measurement. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a
lot of cases with civil juries. And now I see
why because you actually said that, like it's true. Just
because it is done, Elliott, does not mean it should
be done. That doesn't mean it's okay just because it
happens a dollar value on a life, that premise right
(13:38):
there is concerning to me. But that said, Jim Elliott,
I want you to tell me the truth. Isn't it
true that when the victim is an infant and you
don't have a whole lot of cute Christmas pictures and
you know, baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney all that,
and a really old victim.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I I'm telling.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You it's anecdotal, not a statistic, that those plea deals
are cheaper than they are for just to say, a young,
vibrant man or woman.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Have you noticed that? Be honest?
Speaker 12 (14:12):
Yeah, it can be you.
Speaker 11 (14:13):
I think with regard to the younger people, you can't
really paint a picture of their life for the jury.
Speaker 12 (14:20):
That's what prosecutors would probably.
Speaker 11 (14:21):
Worry about with regard to an older person. Again, there's
this there's going to be this attitude that they live
their life and.
Speaker 12 (14:29):
You know, sadly is it.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That may be the attitude, Elliott, but they don't bring
it to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Okay, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Let Elliott sit there and think about what he just
said and move this case forward.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Listen.
Speaker 13 (14:47):
Arriving at the home at seven point fifty two am,
Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts
in her hands and blood on her clothing. Insight, they
find eighty one year old Anita Avers own responsive inner
bed with multiples stab wounds.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Both women are taking to the hospital.
Speaker 10 (15:02):
Officers went inside the residence found an eighty one year
old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds. Both
were transported to local hospitals.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
They got to Melissa McCarty joining us side.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Miss a reporter, host of the Killer Jeans podcast which
is awesome Melissa McCarty and author of the Making of
a Crime Reporter. Melissa, what can you tell me about
the victims stabs?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
What have you learned?
Speaker 7 (15:40):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as stars
was an upper body, her face. The specific areas police
haven't released that just yet, but she was attacked reportedly
in her bed with multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Karen Start joining me, FORENSICCT psychologist, renowned TV radio trauma expert,
consultant at Karenstart dot com.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
If you're looking for her, it's Karen.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
With a C. Karen, I want to talk to you
about something that shocked me to the Court and you know, Karen,
you and I bonded together in very very long hours
in the dark at Court TV studios where you and
I would sit there. I believe there were three or
(16:27):
four hour shifts we had watching trials live and commenting
on them whenever there would be a break.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Even after all that, after all the.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Cases I've tried, after all the cases you have worked on,
I was so shocked with the Brian Coburger attacks in
that well, many things, but the stabbing to the face
of Killy Gonsolves and Maddie I believe Killi Gonsolbis was
(17:04):
She was stabbed multiple times, but in her face alone.
There were over twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a
trial lawyer, you're the shrink.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
But when a.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Victim is stabbed repeatedly in the face, there has got
to be a psychological motivation there. I don't know what
it is, but I bet you do.
Speaker 14 (17:26):
That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because he's trying
to wipe out her face. He's angry even though he
had no contact with her. This is a guy who
just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He
was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person.
In some instances, a killer will put a cover over
(17:47):
somebody's face, a pillow, something to hide them. They just
don't want to see, and they want to obliterate that person.
She was beautiful and that really disturbed him. Let me
get rid of who she is in all her beauty,
because she doesn't want me.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
You know another thing, a Karen Stark. You know my mom.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Who's going to be ninety four in December and lives
with us. The act of stabbing a little old lady
in her bed, either bedridden or asleep. That's a whole
other level of evil right there. Now. I know no
(18:31):
one's life is more valuable than another person's life.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I don't care if we're talking.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
About a movie star, TV star like Matthew Perry, or
we're talking about this eighty one year old ma. But
to attack a completely defenseless person, that's a whole another
can of worms. Psychologically, what is that? It's like she
(18:57):
didn't killing a mockingbird.
Speaker 14 (19:00):
That's true, but we don't really know, Nancy, what was
going on inside of that person's head.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Karen Stark, excuse me one moment.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Did I just hear you say it matters what's going
on inside that person's head, the stabber, the killer, I
don't care what's going on in their head unless they're
legally insane, doesn't matter. You know how many years it
took me to figure that out? It was either five
or seven because I marked it. I would sit in
(19:32):
court looking over at the defendant, always a violent felon,
because everything else will get plat out, thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Why why would they do this?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Finally, I think it was year five. I'm like, why
am I asking why? It doesn't matter what's going on
inside his head. I have a case to prove, and
I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So are you?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
As an eighty one year old bedridden woman in her bed,
stab multiple times, potentially in the face. And you want
me to figure out what's going on in the killer's mind?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Did you say that?
Speaker 6 (20:14):
Now?
Speaker 14 (20:14):
I said, we don't know what's going on. But what
I was trying to say, Nancy, is that whoever this
person was, they had tremendous just like codburger rage, rage
to do so many stab wounds, rage to do somebody's space.
If that actually happened, something was going on with they
(20:35):
really did not want to make that person be recognizable.
They were obsessed in.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
This killer crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 8 (20:52):
College professors now have a high tech tool to catch
students who plagiarize. A software called turn it in analyzes
as students for places it could have been copied from
other sources. It highlights the copied segments, and evening is
a professor a percentage of the paper that was not the.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Results of the student's work in the first place. From
our friends at Fox two.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
With over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist,
Angie Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically,
she now finds herself at the center of a murder.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Case, joining US Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The
Killer Jeans Melissa. Both women were transported to the hospital.
Describe their two injuries because they are diametrically opposed. Right.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds and when she was
transported she ended up dying at the hospital, was pronounced
about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some cuts
on her hands and she was treated as.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Well and release. If I am not mistake, she was
treated and released as right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Very same day, very same day. Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please,
Melissa McCarty, are you telling me that the eighty one
year old mother was stabbed multiple times in the torso
and possibly the face and dies and the glamorous TV
anchor had some cuts on her hands.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Is that right? That's right, that's right. She was also
covered in.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Blood, covered in blood. Now I find it very curious
to Dave mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious, indeed,
how did the morning TV news anchor survive the attack
with a few cuts on.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Her hands and her mother bedridden?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Is the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
How does that happen?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You?
Speaker 6 (23:01):
Know and Nancy, that's the question that they're going to
have to answer very quickly, because she was able to
get out of the house and wave down help. Remember
Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is waving
down people for help and get the cell phone from
somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and runs
(23:22):
back into the house. So she's still got plenty of energy,
She's still able to get up and go and ask
for help. And yet her mother is there in the
bed having been massacred. So don't know what exactly transpired,
except she had plenty of energy to go out and
get help for herself.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Dave mac do you know what you just did to
me when you're talking about her mother? I felt like
I swallowed a lump of coal, like something stuck in
my throat. I just want to jump up and run
to get to my mom and check on her.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Okay, well you just brought up.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Something really interesting that I hadn't thought. Not just as
she survived in Maniacal Killer with a few cuts on
her hands, but somehow was drenched in blood.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Isn't that right?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched in blood all
over the front of her right.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Correct, Dave Mac. Back to you.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So she's drenched in blood from what the cuts on
her hands, but you brought up that she's still an
excellent condition. No blow to the head, no gash, no
wound to her the back of her head. She is alert,
she's not screaming, get the guy, Get the guy. Somebody
(24:37):
broke in her house. There's which reminds me. Was there
any sign of forced entry, Dave Mac at all?
Speaker 6 (24:44):
None, none whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy.
And like you said, she's got plenty of time and
energy to go around and go outside the house and
seek help. So she's able to have her thoughts. She's
not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought
together here. She's able to go outside and get help.
(25:06):
And you know, she didn't seem to be other than
the blood on her hands, doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You know, that's also curious. She says, she's not freaked out.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
But she did run out of the house to borrow
a stranger who was a neighbor, but they didn't really
know each other's phone, grabbed the neighbor's phone and then
ran back into the home with it. I wonder why
she didn't use a phone in the home or her
own cell phone.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
If I found someone injured in our home, I would
not run out in the street to try to borrow
somebody's phone that may or may not be out there.
I would use the home phone if they have one,
or my cell phone.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
That's odd, isn't it. Don't you find that odd?
Speaker 6 (25:52):
I found it odd that she ran outside the house
because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned,
she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the
wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean,
come on, you probably got in that home. You've probably
still got a wall, a phone on the wall, not
to mention several cell phones from the adults that are
there in the home. But instead of any of that,
(26:14):
she goes outside, and all I'm thinking if we're maybe
she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't know, Nancy,
it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your mother.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
In bed outside afraid of the killer still in the house.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I like that, Dave. He's got a future of fiction.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
Listen the eighty one year old Anita Avers found unresponsive
in her bed with multiple stab wounds. Transported to the hospital,
as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached
police in the street when they arrived. Mock, a former
television news anchor reporter, is treated and released from the hospital. Well,
Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Angima.
Speaker 12 (26:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I am so excited to be here. And I look
for me and with you guys out there in Saint
Louis from Fox Too.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
The former news anchor was living with her eighty year
old mother in their Wichita home on Halloween night, the
spotlight shifted dramatically on to Mock as events took a
dark turn.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
A dark turn again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig.
A dark turn. It sounds like a mystery novel. This
is no mystery novel, and it's not a dark turn.
It's murder, and it's the murder of a defenseless eighty
one year old woman apparently bed ridden. You know, I
(27:36):
just heard something to Melissa McCarty, Is it true that
the glam Morning TV anchor was.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Living with her mother? What in her mother's home? Whose
home was that?
Speaker 7 (27:50):
That's what it seems. So police have not gone on
the record to confirm it, but it seems as though
they were living together.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did Angeline
mock end up unscathed?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
She was treated?
Speaker 5 (28:09):
What?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Jim Elliott?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
They spread a little back teen honor went goodbye, goodbye?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
What? And the mother's dead? Stab multiple times? You don't
found you don't have a problem with that because I do.
Speaker 11 (28:22):
Well, So I think you know the difference is an
eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty
or thirty years younger, the younger person could arguably be
more able to defend herself than what's her mother.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I
see where you're going with that. Doctor Prea Banergy is
with us doctor Priya board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic
pathologists with Anchor Forensic Pathology consulting. Let's just say she's
seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Priya, what is
(28:57):
the difference between a defensive state wound and a stab wound?
You would get to your hands when you are the attacker,
for instance, your hand sliding down the knife unless you're
like Brian Coberger who had a k bar knife which
(29:17):
has a hilt. What is a hilt? It looks like
a cross. There is a section that turns the blade,
it bisects it and if you're the stabber, your hand would.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Stop at the hilt.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Okay, So if there is a knife that does not
have a hilt, how can you tell the difference between
a wound sustained to the hand if you are the
stabber versus a defensive wound.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Well, I think that could be challenging. You need to
look at where it is.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
If you're putting your hands up this way on the back,
that is obviously defensive.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Happen in any way? Have the knife ub.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Use the back of your hand to stab someone now,
but on the palms and it's really deep.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Maybe you did have a grabbing motion where the knife slip.
Speaker 14 (30:13):
Remember, repeated stabs make the knife bloody, would make it slippery.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Earlier, you heard a veterman trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe
why the morning TV news star could have escaped a
deranged killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger
than her eighty one year old mother. Typically the state
does not have to prove motive. But I'd be very
(30:41):
curious to find out who would want to kill an
eighty one year old little old lady asleep in bed,
the degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms,
being very very physically active. Yes, I could see that
as it is. Cause let's take a look at Angeline mock.
Speaker 8 (31:03):
Well, Ferrell's biggest fan, Angie mock Hey, big fan, right,
oh huge Lambert Airport, Better get ready for me.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You're going to be there, right, Yeah, I'm anger.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Angie mock is a former TV anchor who spent several
years waking up the Saint Louis area anchoring the morning
news on Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter
and anchor working for Fox twenty five Oklahoma City, KLK
in Nebraska, now NBC Montana and others.
Speaker 8 (31:28):
I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things
that come to the Saint Louis area.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
How do we go about training like the professional last
curve ball?
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Let's straight it out.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Scary. That's aroun our friends at Fox two News, and
we showed you that to explain that. Jim Elliott is
absolutely correct. She's in great physical shape. So is that
how she escapes the deranged killer and her mother does not?
To Melissa McCarty joining us from Killer Jeans, was there
(32:03):
a forced entry? Did first responders see anyone leaving the home?
Or did the neighbor who lent her cell phone to
mak did she see anyone leaving the home or a
car speeding away anything like that.
Speaker 7 (32:17):
There was no forced entry, and according to police, there
were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her
mom on responsive inside the home.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
That's it. Did she make a statement at all?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
To Dave Mack, joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, what
if anything did Angie Mock have to say?
Speaker 6 (32:40):
Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of,
and only getting secondhand information about what may or may
not have been said to the nine to one one dispatcher.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What
did she say?
Speaker 6 (32:58):
She said that she did it in self defense, that
she was trying to save her own life, intimating that
it was a fight with her mother and she had
to use the knife to protect yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she
stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent
words were she did it in self defense? What it
was a killer be kill situation?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Is that where you're.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Saying, Dave Mac, that is exactly what I am saying
that she claims.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make.
Check out Angie Mock in that photo.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Ouch, there's a side by side. I don't want to
be part of that.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, Hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran child lawyer.
I guess this is one of the reasons you tell
your clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to
believe that Angelin Mack was defending herself against her bedridden
mother and a killer be killed situation?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I mean, how do you even look at a judge.
Speaker 11 (34:16):
She's going to have to explain that, And I mean,
I guess they'll come up with some concept of who
knows physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something
of that sort that she may attribute it to.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott, Now again, you're just
spinning it out. Put it in that, please, Jim Elliott.
I'm you have children. I assume you read them the
story of Rumpel Stealskin.
Speaker 12 (34:38):
Yes, of course. Yes.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Okay, so you know where I'm going with this.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Rumpel stealskin took Hay and he just spun it out
into gold. And that's what you're doing right now, now,
do you, Jim Elliott? And again, you're a veteran trial
war lawyer. Your record shows you want a lot of cases.
You represent multiple state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow
(35:04):
coming up with the theory that this anchor can I
see her please, That the TV anchor who can add lib,
who can rescript, who can do all sorts stuff on air,
antics that she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental,
(35:25):
or emotional abuse. Did you just throw that out as
a possibility, Jim Elliott.
Speaker 12 (35:31):
It's a possibility, certainly. And we don't know exactly. I mean,
all she said was to save myself. We don't know
what that means.
Speaker 11 (35:36):
We don't know what that means physically, whether there are
other issues that play in their relationship or in her
life or our mother's life. And I think that has
to be fully explored before we can understand.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
But she's going to have to explain my stars. I
need a shrink crime store with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I need a shrink, Karen Stark, I'll forego the drink.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And I'll stick with a shrink.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
You know, I don't want to hear about any of
your specific clients, but how many times do your clients
blame mommy?
Speaker 3 (36:18):
You know, I've started a fund for my daughter and
son for.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
A shrink someday because I'm sure they're gonna blame everything
on me. Yes, mommy told me I was fill in
the blank. My mommy made me feel in that blank.
It's all mommy's fault.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Did you hear Elliott? The woman is bedridden. She's eighty
one years old.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I don't care what she told you when you were
five years old to stand up straight.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And eat your vegetables. What did you hear that? Because
that's where this is going.
Speaker 14 (36:50):
It doesn't make any sense, it really if you think
about it. Yes, mothers, fathers, they really affect their children
growing up.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
And that's a fact.
Speaker 14 (37:00):
Whatever is going on that we're talking now about an
adult and a mother who is eighty eighty one, there
was no reason for that to still be held over
and something that's in her psyche. At this point, she's
gone on with her life and she should be doing
really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen, because she's independent.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind. We
don't even know if there is anything that the now
dead mom did the eighty one year old. For all
I know, she was an incredible mom. We're just you
are actually buying into Jim Elliott's theory that maybe maybe
this woman was emotionally abused by her mom for years
(37:46):
and years and years, so she just had a stab
or dad.
Speaker 12 (37:49):
Well, that's the whole point.
Speaker 14 (37:50):
It doesn't matter what their relationship was like. It really does,
announcing because at this stage in her life, she's a
functioning we assume adult, and she should not be carrying
any kind of feelings about her mother.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's interfering.
Speaker 14 (38:05):
What would make her Who would do that stab their
own mother?
Speaker 3 (38:09):
That hardly ever happens.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residence. Angeline
was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after
stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discovered her mother in bed
suffering from.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Multiple stab womers.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Hmm, Okay, this is a tactic that will likely be
used by the state if this case goes forward. All
of the clips that we're showing you every word Angie
Mock has uttered on air will be combed through and
used if possible in court to show that she was
(38:48):
in her right mind. I mean, well, this is why
there's got to be a mental defect defense, because she
blurted it out at the Get and Go.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Listen, I've heard stabbed the who raised about five to
six knives and that's apparently with her mom.
Speaker 12 (39:06):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're
leaving the day. I don't know where my tissues are.
That's all right.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Family's in town, they're leaving today. That was from my
friends at K A K E and Fox Too. I
want to hear that one more time, what she said
on the scene or to the nine one one dispatch,
and then.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Her crying about her family leaving after the holiday. Let's
watch that one more time.
Speaker 12 (39:38):
Who probably raised about five to six knives and that's.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Apparently with her mom.
Speaker 12 (39:43):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Yeah, oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're
leaving the day. I don't know where my tissues are,
that's all right.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft fly tissues behind bars.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Miss Mark that's from K A K. E and Fox
to Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant, and so much more,
author of workplace safety co host Girl Shields podcast.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
It goes on and on and on thoughts.
Speaker 9 (40:11):
There's so many thoughts about this. When she came out
of her house and said what she said, allegedly, she's
putting herself as the person responsible for it. The reasons
for it can get figured out later when you look
at the situation. She's living with her mother for whatever reason,
maybe as a caretaker, maybe a financial.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in. Go ahead, sorry,
that's why our friends at Fox to everybody, I'm sorry, Dan,
go ahead.
Speaker 9 (40:38):
Looks is the life has held her a very bad
set of hand, bad hand, so to speak, set of cards.
She does not look like the same person. Something is
on a downslide, and maybe she blames the mother for
things in her life, sees the mother as holding her
back in many reasons. I would love to know the story,
the true dynamic in the relationship, why she's living there,
(40:59):
what caused in any other domestic calls there, What would
lead her to this. Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
She's I'm sorry, but are you Are you a mental
health professional because I thought you were a former NYPD
to take a sergeant I.
Speaker 9 (41:15):
Am, which is equivalent to a master's in psychology in
many ways.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is
not required.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I don't care. I mean, my non prosecutor side does care.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
But I'm talking about the facts that we're going to
put in front of a jury.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
I am asking you.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
You're the former NYPD, and I keep saying that because
you have more cases than practically any other jurisdiction in
the country that you have handled. Personally analyze the facts.
We'll deal with her mental defect defense that she's you know,
really painting herself in a corner with because she came
(42:03):
out with self defense, so she's.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Stick with it. That's not going away.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
She admitted she did it in self defense. Of course
I don't believe that, and I want to hear what
you think about the facts, not your amateur opinion, as
mine would be too.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
I'm not a shrink about why she did it.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Why does somebody stab a bed ridden eighty one year
old woman.
Speaker 9 (42:29):
Don't care the bare facts scene cops get to the scene,
she lives in the home with the mother, and she
is covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who
has either embraced a dead body covered in blood or
somebody who himself was responsible for it. And the blood
comes out arterial spurts and things like that. Second, she's
(42:50):
got defensive wounds potentially or potentially from a handslide, and
got a knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being
used to attack somebody. She makes a statement indicating she
did it. There's no evidence of entry by anyone else
into the residence. She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility.
The mother is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed
(43:11):
a threat with a knife to her daughter Fairfax. No
other suspect.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Here's a look at our top stories.
Speaker 8 (43:17):
Several victims survive a hail of bullets and two separate shootings,
but those shootings were at the exact same location.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
A glamorous TV news anchor Mock stands charged with first
degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one
year old mother, Anita Avers. Mock is being held in
the Sedgwick County Jail on a one million dollar bail from.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Fox Too at this hour. As of tonight when we
go to air, this case is still being built by
l E law enforcement. If you know or think you
know anything about the death of this eighty one year
old mom, please dial which CHAWPD three one six two
(43:57):
six eight four one one PETE three one six two
six eight four one one. And remember evil comes in
many forms. Do you think the devil always shows up
at a tux No, don't be fooled by a killer's appearance,
(44:19):
even if she's a glamorous morning TV anchor, doesn't matter.
Try to keep your mind on the victim, maybe like
your own mother eighty one, bedridden, stabbed multiple times. Keep
that thought in your head. We remember an American hero,
Detective Corporal Christopher Mock Saint Lucy County Sheriff's killed in
(44:44):
the light of duty after twenty one years on the force,
leaving behind a wife turned widow, Jennifer, and two grieving children.
American hero Detective Corporal Christopher Mock.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Nancy Gray, signing off near by, said
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamorous morning TV anchor,
runs from a bedroom blood bath, deadly stabbing. I mean
you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Angela and Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City
news scene, gained popularity as the morning show anchor for
Fox two. Her career was marked by her engaging presence
and dedication to delivering the news, not knowing she would
find herself back in the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom
leaves her mother, eighty years old, stabbed dead.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
What do we know?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Locke is currently undergoing a court ordered mental competency evaluation.
This has temporarily paused her first degree murder case. A
new court date has not yet been scheduled. Her attorney
requested the evaluation. This process typically takes around sixty days.
The evaluation will determine if she is mentally fit to
(01:12):
stand trial. According to a police Sabadavid Mock, who has
a history of mental health issues, including a diagnosis of
schizo effective disorder, told police she stabbed her mother in
self defense, claiming her mother was the devil. Mock's stepfather
reported that Mock had experienced delusions in the past, including
saying they are all robots or they are not real people.
(01:36):
Mock remains in custody at the Sedgwick County Jail on
a one million dollar bond. Again, a new trial date
has not been scheduled.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
How did we get here? Listen?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
There was a woman who came and approached our vegal
with blood like her hands were filled, her body was
filled of blood, asking to conine one.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
One seven am. A Lissa Castro and her boyfriend are
in their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down.
As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood,
a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman
asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one,
then takes off with the phone back into a house.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
Foster if she was a king and she was pretty
shicken up and she seems scared and she just ran.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Off that from our friends, say Kae straight out to
Melissa McCarty, joining US investigative reporter, hosts of the Killer
Jeans podcast, and author of a brandy book, The Making
of a Crime Reporter.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Melissa, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Now, who is the woman sitting in a car that
observes Angelaine, the morning TV anchor, running out of the
home covered in blood.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Who is she?
Speaker 7 (02:48):
She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend
and she watched everything unfold and she said she was
traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into
the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them,
begging for help. So obviously they stop and she's asking
for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell
(03:09):
phone and she takes it, runs inside the house and
doesn't return.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
The informant the neighbor refers to Angeline Mock as this woman, specifically,
this woman.
Speaker 8 (03:23):
A lot of people are going to get face to
face with a turkey this Thursday, because it is Thanksgiving
and because so many people are going to be basing
their turkey.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
We do like to talk about grease and where it
should go. A lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 8 (03:34):
All that grease everybody on the block is cooking a turkey,
and that grease can be very problematic.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
That is from our friends at Fox two News, and
that is Angeline Mock who ran from the home covered
in blood. Curious to Dan Murphy joining US former NYPD
detective sergeant on the Joint Terrorism Task Force and former
chief security officer co host of podcast gold Shields. Dan Murphy,
(04:03):
you know this woman, the TV anchor, is drenched in blood.
When police finally get to the scene, they find something
even worse. Her eighty year old mother, apparently bed ridden,
is stabbed dead in her own bed. That's the mom
on the left.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
The mom is Anita Avers.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I think she actually turned eighty one just before her
stabbing death.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So where do you even start with a scene like.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
That, Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want
to give any medical aid you can at this point
if the person is not clearly deceased, and even if
they are, a medical personnel have to come and attend
to them, which is going to disturb the scene a bit,
but it has to be done. Then you're going to
want to preserve all the evidence you can. And I've
been in blood bets and you have to walk gingerly
(04:56):
around them and wear those little booties. But it needs
to be done because later on the evidence is all
going to speak through experts to a jury. So right now,
you're preserving evidence.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
You know a piece of evidence that is commonly fumbled
through nobody's.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Fault, and that's footprints.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
When you have a blood bath like the one that
happened at the home of this Fox News anchor, every
blood marking matters. It could be spray back. For instance,
this is a stabbing death. The mother, an eighty one
year old woman is stabbed multiple times. Think ted Bundy
(05:38):
right and the clubbing right. That's called throwback. Where the
victim is hit forcefully and then the perpetrator swings back
to strike again.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
That blood is cast off right.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
The cast off, if measured correctly, can determine maybe even
the height of the defendant, may be the position in
which they were when.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
The attack occurred. You can tell how many times.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
If you can't tell from the body, you can tell
from the cast off how many times the person was stabbed,
because every time there's a swing back, it hits in
a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling.
And speaking of ceilings, significant explain why ceilings are important
(06:27):
in a case like this, that they be processed just
like all the other blood evidence.
Speaker 9 (06:33):
Because blood evidence is airborne. Once it becomes a part
of cast off and it will leave an impression upon
the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this,
that evidence is going to be important because the blood
spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel.
Understand zerology, and you understand the science of blood and
(06:55):
how it moves and how it forms and what formations
look like when it's cast off of anoder So that
preservation of evidence is vital, and you would want to
take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with
you as evidence.
Speaker 9 (07:11):
I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units,
pieces of flooring cut out, depending upon the nature of
the crime. Now this week it became a homicide. You're
going to take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it.
But also you may want to take the actual physical
piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that
you can cut out, you may want to take it.
It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may
(07:34):
want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with
you in case it's challenge But those pieces of evidence
are going to tell a story and in thorough investigations.
I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and taken into custody.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know, we got started on this discussion talking about
floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined
really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
You know, everybody's.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Shoes have to be taken and there has to be
a print made of them to compare to bloody shee
prints if there are any on the floor.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
The only people that should go into that room are
the ones who are burdened with trying to save a life.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
And then if they can't save the eighty one year
old mom's life, they have to very gingerly back out
and get the hay out of.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
There so the work can begin.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
But when you're trying to save somebody's life, that's your
paramount concern. You're not worried about bloody footprints. Okay, let's
go back to what happened. This is it, and this
is a whole other can of worms, Dan Murphy. This
happened around seven a m. Seven am, which statistically it
is very rare for a bloodbath, a deadly blood bath,
to go down before breakfast.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Okay, listen, Nine.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
One one is called and relays a message to first responders.
A woman says there has been a stabbing in her home.
Speaker 10 (09:03):
This morning. At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded
to a stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of
East Crowley. When officers arrived on scene, they were met
in the street with a forty forty eight year old
white female who had suffered from some cutting cuts to
(09:26):
her hand.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer, Jim Elliott, attorney
with Butler Snow Legal Council for Multiple Municipalities and Governmental
Entities at butlersnow dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Jim, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases in court.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Blood evidence is very tricky, especially if you don't know
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But one thing I would be looking at is the
degree to which the blood had coagulated time when amts
and first responders get there, and it's really difficult. Jim,
You've been on a lot of scenes. They're trying to
save the eighty one year old mom's life.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
They're not thinking has the blood coagulated.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
They're trying to resuscitate her and get her airlifted.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
To the hospital where I would come.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
In as the prosecutor is critical that we know whether
the blood had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's
kind of like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore.
It's more of a jello consistency that's coagulated. And the
(10:43):
harder it gets, the closer it gets to being dried.
In your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important
that we know whether the blood was still liquid as
in water, semilated as in jello, are flat out dried?
Speaker 11 (11:04):
Well, Certainly, I go to what time the crime actually occurred,
or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case you're
only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the first
responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without a
great deal of expertise in that regard.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam.
We've got to have more than that. We have to
have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But
the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for
the entire CSI to arrive and you could lose that
critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know
(11:42):
when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple
times in her bed.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know another thing.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Elliot, I noticed this when prosecuting in inner city Atlanta,
when the victim is very young, like an infant, or
very old. For so reason, those cases are very often
pled down to like manslaughter of some degree. You got voluntary,
you got involuntary. I don't know why, but have you
(12:13):
noticed that phenomena used to burn me up? Like somehow
because the victim is really young and hadn't lived yet
as an infant.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Or really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you notice that.
I'd love to see statistic on that.
Speaker 11 (12:26):
Well, that's certainly can be to take some I guess
that's kind of driven by the value of the life
at the.
Speaker 12 (12:30):
Time of the passing. You all the.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Elliots of the events and blowing off commercial break the
value of the life.
Speaker 12 (12:44):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
You sound a lot like a civil lawyer right now,
where you try to get a money verdict from a
jury and you ask the jury to put a dollar
value on somebody's life. So what if they're old, Jim Elliott,
they're just not earth as much.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Go ahead, put it out there.
Speaker 12 (13:03):
It's the usual. It's the usual measure of damages.
Speaker 11 (13:06):
Nancy whether it's morally right or it's everyone's code of
ethics or not. That's the way our system works.
Speaker 12 (13:13):
With regard to that measurement. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a
lot of cases with civil juries. And now I see
why because you actually said that, like it's true. Just
because it is done, Elliott, does not mean it should
be done. That doesn't mean it's okay just because it
happens a dollar value on a life, that premise right
(13:38):
there is concerning to me. But that said, Jim Elliott,
I want you to tell me the truth. Isn't it
true that when the victim is an infant and you
don't have a whole lot of cute Christmas pictures and
you know, baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney all that,
and a really old victim.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I I'm telling.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You it's anecdotal, not a statistic, that those plea deals
are cheaper than they are for just to say, a young,
vibrant man or woman.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Have you noticed that? Be honest?
Speaker 12 (14:12):
Yeah, it can be you.
Speaker 11 (14:13):
I think with regard to the younger people, you can't
really paint a picture of their life for the jury.
Speaker 12 (14:20):
That's what prosecutors would probably.
Speaker 11 (14:21):
Worry about with regard to an older person. Again, there's
this there's going to be this attitude that they live
their life and.
Speaker 12 (14:29):
You know, sadly is it.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
That may be the attitude, Elliott, but they don't bring
it to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Okay, I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Let Elliott sit there and think about what he just
said and move this case forward.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Listen.
Speaker 13 (14:47):
Arriving at the home at seven point fifty two am,
Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts
in her hands and blood on her clothing. Insight, they
find eighty one year old Anita Avers own responsive inner
bed with multiples stab wounds.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Both women are taking to the hospital.
Speaker 10 (15:02):
Officers went inside the residence found an eighty one year
old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds. Both
were transported to local hospitals.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
They got to Melissa McCarty joining us side.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Miss a reporter, host of the Killer Jeans podcast which
is awesome Melissa McCarty and author of the Making of
a Crime Reporter. Melissa, what can you tell me about
the victims stabs?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
What have you learned?
Speaker 7 (15:40):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as stars
was an upper body, her face. The specific areas police
haven't released that just yet, but she was attacked reportedly
in her bed with multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Karen Start joining me, FORENSICCT psychologist, renowned TV radio trauma expert,
consultant at Karenstart dot com.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
If you're looking for her, it's Karen.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
With a C. Karen, I want to talk to you
about something that shocked me to the Court and you know, Karen,
you and I bonded together in very very long hours
in the dark at Court TV studios where you and
I would sit there. I believe there were three or
(16:27):
four hour shifts we had watching trials live and commenting
on them whenever there would be a break.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Even after all that, after all the.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Cases I've tried, after all the cases you have worked on,
I was so shocked with the Brian Coburger attacks in
that well, many things, but the stabbing to the face
of Killy Gonsolves and Maddie I believe Killi Gonsolbis was
(17:04):
She was stabbed multiple times, but in her face alone.
There were over twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a
trial lawyer, you're the shrink.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
But when a.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Victim is stabbed repeatedly in the face, there has got
to be a psychological motivation there. I don't know what
it is, but I bet you do.
Speaker 14 (17:26):
That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because he's trying
to wipe out her face. He's angry even though he
had no contact with her. This is a guy who
just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He
was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person.
In some instances, a killer will put a cover over
(17:47):
somebody's face, a pillow, something to hide them. They just
don't want to see, and they want to obliterate that person.
She was beautiful and that really disturbed him. Let me
get rid of who she is in all her beauty,
because she doesn't want me.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
You know another thing, a Karen Stark. You know my mom.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Who's going to be ninety four in December and lives
with us. The act of stabbing a little old lady
in her bed, either bedridden or asleep. That's a whole
other level of evil right there. Now. I know no
(18:31):
one's life is more valuable than another person's life.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I don't care if we're talking.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
About a movie star, TV star like Matthew Perry, or
we're talking about this eighty one year old ma. But
to attack a completely defenseless person, that's a whole another
can of worms. Psychologically, what is that? It's like she
(18:57):
didn't killing a mockingbird.
Speaker 14 (19:00):
That's true, but we don't really know, Nancy, what was
going on inside of that person's head.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Karen Stark, excuse me one moment.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Did I just hear you say it matters what's going
on inside that person's head, the stabber, the killer, I
don't care what's going on in their head unless they're
legally insane, doesn't matter. You know how many years it
took me to figure that out? It was either five
or seven because I marked it. I would sit in
(19:32):
court looking over at the defendant, always a violent felon,
because everything else will get plat out, thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Why why would they do this?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Finally, I think it was year five. I'm like, why
am I asking why? It doesn't matter what's going on
inside his head. I have a case to prove, and
I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So are you?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
As an eighty one year old bedridden woman in her bed,
stab multiple times, potentially in the face. And you want
me to figure out what's going on in the killer's mind?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Did you say that?
Speaker 6 (20:14):
Now?
Speaker 14 (20:14):
I said, we don't know what's going on. But what
I was trying to say, Nancy, is that whoever this
person was, they had tremendous just like codburger rage, rage
to do so many stab wounds, rage to do somebody's space.
If that actually happened, something was going on with they
(20:35):
really did not want to make that person be recognizable.
They were obsessed in.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
This killer crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 8 (20:52):
College professors now have a high tech tool to catch
students who plagiarize. A software called turn it in analyzes
as students for places it could have been copied from
other sources. It highlights the copied segments, and evening is
a professor a percentage of the paper that was not the.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Results of the student's work in the first place. From
our friends at Fox two.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
With over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist,
Angie Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically,
she now finds herself at the center of a murder.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Case, joining US Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The
Killer Jeans Melissa. Both women were transported to the hospital.
Describe their two injuries because they are diametrically opposed. Right.
Speaker 7 (21:41):
Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds and when she was
transported she ended up dying at the hospital, was pronounced
about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some cuts
on her hands and she was treated as.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Well and release. If I am not mistake, she was
treated and released as right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Very same day, very same day. Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please,
Melissa McCarty, are you telling me that the eighty one
year old mother was stabbed multiple times in the torso
and possibly the face and dies and the glamorous TV
anchor had some cuts on her hands.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Is that right? That's right, that's right. She was also
covered in.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Blood, covered in blood. Now I find it very curious
to Dave mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious, indeed,
how did the morning TV news anchor survive the attack
with a few cuts on.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Her hands and her mother bedridden?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Is the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
How does that happen?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You?
Speaker 6 (23:01):
Know and Nancy, that's the question that they're going to
have to answer very quickly, because she was able to
get out of the house and wave down help. Remember
Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is waving
down people for help and get the cell phone from
somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and runs
(23:22):
back into the house. So she's still got plenty of energy,
She's still able to get up and go and ask
for help. And yet her mother is there in the
bed having been massacred. So don't know what exactly transpired,
except she had plenty of energy to go out and
get help for herself.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Dave mac do you know what you just did to
me when you're talking about her mother? I felt like
I swallowed a lump of coal, like something stuck in
my throat. I just want to jump up and run
to get to my mom and check on her.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Okay, well you just brought up.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Something really interesting that I hadn't thought. Not just as
she survived in Maniacal Killer with a few cuts on
her hands, but somehow was drenched in blood.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Isn't that right?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched in blood all
over the front of her right.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Correct, Dave Mac. Back to you.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So she's drenched in blood from what the cuts on
her hands, but you brought up that she's still an
excellent condition. No blow to the head, no gash, no
wound to her the back of her head. She is alert,
she's not screaming, get the guy, Get the guy. Somebody
(24:37):
broke in her house. There's which reminds me. Was there
any sign of forced entry, Dave Mac at all?
Speaker 6 (24:44):
None, none whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy.
And like you said, she's got plenty of time and
energy to go around and go outside the house and
seek help. So she's able to have her thoughts. She's
not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought
together here. She's able to go outside and get help.
(25:06):
And you know, she didn't seem to be other than
the blood on her hands, doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You know, that's also curious. She says, she's not freaked out.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
But she did run out of the house to borrow
a stranger who was a neighbor, but they didn't really
know each other's phone, grabbed the neighbor's phone and then
ran back into the home with it. I wonder why
she didn't use a phone in the home or her
own cell phone.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
If I found someone injured in our home, I would
not run out in the street to try to borrow
somebody's phone that may or may not be out there.
I would use the home phone if they have one,
or my cell phone.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
That's odd, isn't it. Don't you find that odd?
Speaker 6 (25:52):
I found it odd that she ran outside the house
because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned,
she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the
wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean,
come on, you probably got in that home. You've probably
still got a wall, a phone on the wall, not
to mention several cell phones from the adults that are
there in the home. But instead of any of that,
(26:14):
she goes outside, and all I'm thinking if we're maybe
she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't know, Nancy,
it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your mother.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
In bed outside afraid of the killer still in the house.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I like that, Dave. He's got a future of fiction.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
Listen the eighty one year old Anita Avers found unresponsive
in her bed with multiple stab wounds. Transported to the hospital,
as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached
police in the street when they arrived. Mock, a former
television news anchor reporter, is treated and released from the hospital. Well,
Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Angima.
Speaker 12 (26:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I am so excited to be here. And I look
for me and with you guys out there in Saint
Louis from Fox Too.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
The former news anchor was living with her eighty year
old mother in their Wichita home on Halloween night, the
spotlight shifted dramatically on to Mock as events took a
dark turn.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
A dark turn again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig.
A dark turn. It sounds like a mystery novel. This
is no mystery novel, and it's not a dark turn.
It's murder, and it's the murder of a defenseless eighty
one year old woman apparently bed ridden. You know, I
(27:36):
just heard something to Melissa McCarty, Is it true that
the glam Morning TV anchor was.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Living with her mother? What in her mother's home? Whose
home was that?
Speaker 7 (27:50):
That's what it seems. So police have not gone on
the record to confirm it, but it seems as though
they were living together.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did Angeline
mock end up unscathed?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
She was treated?
Speaker 5 (28:09):
What?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Jim Elliott?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
They spread a little back teen honor went goodbye, goodbye?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
What? And the mother's dead? Stab multiple times? You don't
found you don't have a problem with that because I do.
Speaker 11 (28:22):
Well, So I think you know the difference is an
eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty
or thirty years younger, the younger person could arguably be
more able to defend herself than what's her mother.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I
see where you're going with that. Doctor Prea Banergy is
with us doctor Priya board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic
pathologists with Anchor Forensic Pathology consulting. Let's just say she's
seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Priya, what is
(28:57):
the difference between a defensive state wound and a stab wound?
You would get to your hands when you are the attacker,
for instance, your hand sliding down the knife unless you're
like Brian Coberger who had a k bar knife which
(29:17):
has a hilt. What is a hilt? It looks like
a cross. There is a section that turns the blade,
it bisects it and if you're the stabber, your hand would.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Stop at the hilt.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Okay, So if there is a knife that does not
have a hilt, how can you tell the difference between
a wound sustained to the hand if you are the
stabber versus a defensive wound.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Well, I think that could be challenging. You need to
look at where it is.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
If you're putting your hands up this way on the back,
that is obviously defensive.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Happen in any way? Have the knife ub.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Use the back of your hand to stab someone now,
but on the palms and it's really deep.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Maybe you did have a grabbing motion where the knife slip.
Speaker 14 (30:13):
Remember, repeated stabs make the knife bloody, would make it slippery.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Earlier, you heard a veterman trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe
why the morning TV news star could have escaped a
deranged killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger
than her eighty one year old mother. Typically the state
does not have to prove motive. But I'd be very
(30:41):
curious to find out who would want to kill an
eighty one year old little old lady asleep in bed,
the degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms,
being very very physically active. Yes, I could see that
as it is. Cause let's take a look at Angeline mock.
Speaker 8 (31:03):
Well, Ferrell's biggest fan, Angie mock Hey, big fan, right,
oh huge Lambert Airport, Better get ready for me.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
You're going to be there, right, Yeah, I'm anger.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Angie mock is a former TV anchor who spent several
years waking up the Saint Louis area anchoring the morning
news on Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter
and anchor working for Fox twenty five Oklahoma City, KLK
in Nebraska, now NBC Montana and others.
Speaker 8 (31:28):
I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things
that come to the Saint Louis area.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
How do we go about training like the professional last
curve ball?
Speaker 6 (31:37):
Let's straight it out.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Scary. That's aroun our friends at Fox two News, and
we showed you that to explain that. Jim Elliott is
absolutely correct. She's in great physical shape. So is that
how she escapes the deranged killer and her mother does not?
To Melissa McCarty joining us from Killer Jeans, was there
(32:03):
a forced entry? Did first responders see anyone leaving the home?
Or did the neighbor who lent her cell phone to
mak did she see anyone leaving the home or a
car speeding away anything like that.
Speaker 7 (32:17):
There was no forced entry, and according to police, there
were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her
mom on responsive inside the home.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
That's it. Did she make a statement at all?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
To Dave Mack, joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, what
if anything did Angie Mock have to say?
Speaker 6 (32:40):
Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of,
and only getting secondhand information about what may or may
not have been said to the nine to one one dispatcher.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What
did she say?
Speaker 6 (32:58):
She said that she did it in self defense, that
she was trying to save her own life, intimating that
it was a fight with her mother and she had
to use the knife to protect yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she
stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent
words were she did it in self defense? What it
was a killer be kill situation?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Is that where you're.
Speaker 6 (33:32):
Saying, Dave Mac, that is exactly what I am saying
that she claims.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make.
Check out Angie Mock in that photo.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Ouch, there's a side by side. I don't want to
be part of that.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, Hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran child lawyer.
I guess this is one of the reasons you tell
your clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to
believe that Angelin Mack was defending herself against her bedridden
mother and a killer be killed situation?
Speaker 3 (34:13):
I mean, how do you even look at a judge.
Speaker 11 (34:16):
She's going to have to explain that, And I mean,
I guess they'll come up with some concept of who
knows physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something
of that sort that she may attribute it to.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott, Now again, you're just
spinning it out. Put it in that, please, Jim Elliott.
I'm you have children. I assume you read them the
story of Rumpel Stealskin.
Speaker 12 (34:38):
Yes, of course. Yes.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Okay, so you know where I'm going with this.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Rumpel stealskin took Hay and he just spun it out
into gold. And that's what you're doing right now, now,
do you, Jim Elliott? And again, you're a veteran trial
war lawyer. Your record shows you want a lot of cases.
You represent multiple state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow
(35:04):
coming up with the theory that this anchor can I
see her please, That the TV anchor who can add lib,
who can rescript, who can do all sorts stuff on air,
antics that she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental,
(35:25):
or emotional abuse. Did you just throw that out as
a possibility, Jim Elliott.
Speaker 12 (35:31):
It's a possibility, certainly. And we don't know exactly. I mean,
all she said was to save myself. We don't know
what that means.
Speaker 11 (35:36):
We don't know what that means physically, whether there are
other issues that play in their relationship or in her
life or our mother's life. And I think that has
to be fully explored before we can understand.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
But she's going to have to explain my stars. I
need a shrink crime store with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I need a shrink, Karen Stark, I'll forego the drink.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
And I'll stick with a shrink.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
You know, I don't want to hear about any of
your specific clients, but how many times do your clients
blame mommy?
Speaker 3 (36:18):
You know, I've started a fund for my daughter and
son for.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
A shrink someday because I'm sure they're gonna blame everything
on me. Yes, mommy told me I was fill in
the blank. My mommy made me feel in that blank.
It's all mommy's fault.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Did you hear Elliott? The woman is bedridden. She's eighty
one years old.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I don't care what she told you when you were
five years old to stand up straight.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And eat your vegetables. What did you hear that? Because
that's where this is going.
Speaker 14 (36:50):
It doesn't make any sense, it really if you think
about it. Yes, mothers, fathers, they really affect their children
growing up.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
And that's a fact.
Speaker 14 (37:00):
Whatever is going on that we're talking now about an
adult and a mother who is eighty eighty one, there
was no reason for that to still be held over
and something that's in her psyche. At this point, she's
gone on with her life and she should be doing
really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen, because she's independent.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind. We
don't even know if there is anything that the now
dead mom did the eighty one year old. For all
I know, she was an incredible mom. We're just you
are actually buying into Jim Elliott's theory that maybe maybe
this woman was emotionally abused by her mom for years
(37:46):
and years and years, so she just had a stab
or dad.
Speaker 12 (37:49):
Well, that's the whole point.
Speaker 14 (37:50):
It doesn't matter what their relationship was like. It really does,
announcing because at this stage in her life, she's a
functioning we assume adult, and she should not be carrying
any kind of feelings about her mother.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
That's interfering.
Speaker 14 (38:05):
What would make her Who would do that stab their
own mother?
Speaker 3 (38:09):
That hardly ever happens.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residence. Angeline
was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after
stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discovered her mother in bed
suffering from.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Multiple stab womers.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Hmm, Okay, this is a tactic that will likely be
used by the state if this case goes forward. All
of the clips that we're showing you every word Angie
Mock has uttered on air will be combed through and
used if possible in court to show that she was
(38:48):
in her right mind. I mean, well, this is why
there's got to be a mental defect defense, because she
blurted it out at the Get and Go.
Speaker 5 (38:59):
Listen, I've heard stabbed the who raised about five to
six knives and that's apparently with her mom.
Speaker 12 (39:06):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're
leaving the day. I don't know where my tissues are.
That's all right.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Family's in town, they're leaving today. That was from my
friends at K A K E and Fox Too. I
want to hear that one more time, what she said
on the scene or to the nine one one dispatch,
and then.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Her crying about her family leaving after the holiday. Let's
watch that one more time.
Speaker 12 (39:38):
Who probably raised about five to six knives and that's.
Speaker 6 (39:42):
Apparently with her mom.
Speaker 12 (39:43):
She's also from the home.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Yeah, oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town. They're
leaving the day. I don't know where my tissues are,
that's all right.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft fly tissues behind bars.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Miss Mark that's from K A K. E and Fox
to Okay.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Dan Murphy, former NYPD detective sergeant, and so much more,
author of workplace safety co host Girl Shields podcast.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
It goes on and on and on thoughts.
Speaker 9 (40:11):
There's so many thoughts about this. When she came out
of her house and said what she said, allegedly, she's
putting herself as the person responsible for it. The reasons
for it can get figured out later when you look
at the situation. She's living with her mother for whatever reason,
maybe as a caretaker, maybe a financial.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in. Go ahead, sorry,
that's why our friends at Fox to everybody, I'm sorry, Dan,
go ahead.
Speaker 9 (40:38):
Looks is the life has held her a very bad
set of hand, bad hand, so to speak, set of cards.
She does not look like the same person. Something is
on a downslide, and maybe she blames the mother for
things in her life, sees the mother as holding her
back in many reasons. I would love to know the story,
the true dynamic in the relationship, why she's living there,
(40:59):
what caused in any other domestic calls there, What would
lead her to this. Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
She's I'm sorry, but are you Are you a mental
health professional because I thought you were a former NYPD
to take a sergeant I.
Speaker 9 (41:15):
Am, which is equivalent to a master's in psychology in
many ways.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is
not required.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
I don't care. I mean, my non prosecutor side does care.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
But I'm talking about the facts that we're going to
put in front of a jury.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
I am asking you.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
You're the former NYPD, and I keep saying that because
you have more cases than practically any other jurisdiction in
the country that you have handled. Personally analyze the facts.
We'll deal with her mental defect defense that she's you know,
really painting herself in a corner with because she came
(42:03):
out with self defense, so she's.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Stick with it. That's not going away.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
She admitted she did it in self defense. Of course
I don't believe that, and I want to hear what
you think about the facts, not your amateur opinion, as
mine would be too.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
I'm not a shrink about why she did it.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Why does somebody stab a bed ridden eighty one year
old woman.
Speaker 9 (42:29):
Don't care the bare facts scene cops get to the scene,
she lives in the home with the mother, and she
is covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who
has either embraced a dead body covered in blood or
somebody who himself was responsible for it. And the blood
comes out arterial spurts and things like that. Second, she's
(42:50):
got defensive wounds potentially or potentially from a handslide, and
got a knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being
used to attack somebody. She makes a statement indicating she
did it. There's no evidence of entry by anyone else
into the residence. She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility.
The mother is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed
(43:11):
a threat with a knife to her daughter Fairfax. No
other suspect.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Here's a look at our top stories.
Speaker 8 (43:17):
Several victims survive a hail of bullets and two separate shootings,
but those shootings were at the exact same location.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
A glamorous TV news anchor Mock stands charged with first
degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one
year old mother, Anita Avers. Mock is being held in
the Sedgwick County Jail on a one million dollar bail from.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Fox Too at this hour. As of tonight when we
go to air, this case is still being built by
l E law enforcement. If you know or think you
know anything about the death of this eighty one year
old mom, please dial which CHAWPD three one six two
(43:57):
six eight four one one PETE three one six two
six eight four one one. And remember evil comes in
many forms. Do you think the devil always shows up
at a tux No, don't be fooled by a killer's appearance,
(44:19):
even if she's a glamorous morning TV anchor, doesn't matter.
Try to keep your mind on the victim, maybe like
your own mother eighty one, bedridden, stabbed multiple times. Keep
that thought in your head. We remember an American hero,
Detective Corporal Christopher Mock Saint Lucy County Sheriff's killed in
(44:44):
the light of duty after twenty one years on the force,
leaving behind a wife turned widow, Jennifer, and two grieving children.
American hero Detective Corporal Christopher Mock.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Nancy Gray, signing off near by, said
Host
Nancy Grace
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