August 29, 2024 • 40 mins
Ethan Katz and Savannah Roberts have much to celebrate. It’s not only Father’s Day weekend and Ethan’s birthday weekend, but also the couple’s anniversary.
Savannah recently gave birth to their twin sons, now 6 weeks old. Family friend Nicole Virzi traveled from San Diego to Pittsburgh to visit and lend a helping hand. While caring for the twin boys, Ari and Leon, Nicole Virzi tells the parents she noticed unusual injuries on Ari’s genitals.
Around 6:30 p.m., the new parents take Ari to the hospital, leaving their other son, Leon Katz, in Virzi’s care. Just after 11 p.m., Ethan Katz and Savannah Roberts receive a call from Nicole Virzi, informing them that while she was in the kitchen preparing a bottle for Leon, the baby fell from his bouncer seat and hit his head.
Nicole Virzi tells the 911 dispatcher that Leon fell from a bassinet, hit his head, and is becoming unresponsive. When the police arrive, Virzi tells them she fell asleep with the baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up, she goes to the kitchen to prepare a bottle. While she is out of the room, she hears Leon screaming and finds him on the floor with a bump on his head. She tells the police he fell out of his bouncer seat.
Rushed to the hospital, doctors discover Leon Katz has a severe skull fracture on the left side of his head and multiple brain bleeds. The injuries suffered by the 6-week-old baby prove fatal, and he is pronounced dead the next morning at Children’s Hospital.
Police say Virzi has no “plausible explanation” for the severity of Leon’s injuries. Upon examining the bouncer seat, detectives report that it is about 18 inches from the highest point of the seat to the floor.
Doctors inform investigators about the injuries sustained by Leon’s twin brother, Ari. He has small scratches on both sides of his face, two bruises below his belly button, and swelling, bruising, redness, and scratches on his genitals. The doctor who examined the injuries to both boys states they are consistent with child abuse, noting that these injuries were inflicted and not accidental. All of Leon’s injuries are described as “acute."
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Kelly Hyman – Trial & Civil Attorney (Miami, FL); TV Legal Analyst; Author: “Build Back Better;” X: @kellyhyman1, TikTok: @kelly.hyman, Instagram: @Kelly_Hyman1
- Dr. John Delatorre – Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre
- Dr. Melissa Merrick - President & CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America, www.preventchildabuse.org and www.healthyfamiliesamerica.org' Facebook & YouTube: Prevent Child Abuse, X & IG: @PCAAMERICA
- Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School
- Gabriella DeLuca - TV News Reporter, WPXI in Pittsburgh, PA; X: @GabriellaDeLuca, IG: WPXIgabrielladeluca
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamor PhD student twenty nine,
volunteers to babysit ends up she tortures her dear friend's
twin baby boy dead according to reports, and now she's shocked.
(00:25):
She may be punished. That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
In that jurisdiction on death row, there.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Are no women, much less a glamorous young PhD student.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
A Pittsburgh family with newborn twin babies asks a longtime
friend to babysit. Matters take a turn for the worse.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I know how difficult it is to have twins, to
give birth to twins, to keep them alive. The twin
baby boys had been yearned for, sought after for so long,
and now mommy and daddy. Amazingly, this occurred on daddy's
(01:13):
first Father's Day and Mommy's and daddy's anniversary.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
What exactly happened? How did it all start?
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Listen Calling nine to one one around eleven to fifteen pm,
Nicole Versey tells the dispatcher that Leon has fallen from
a bascinette and bumped his head and is becoming unresponsive.
When police arrive at Versy tells police she falls asleep
with the baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up,
she goes to get a bottle from the kitchen for
the baby. While she is out of the room, she
hears Leon screaming and finds him on the floor with
(01:47):
a bump on his head. She tells police he fell
out of his bouncer seat.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Fell out of a bouncer see you know, the bouncy
kind that you have the baby with a seat belt
buckled in. We all start panel to make sense of
what we know right now. But first straight out to
Gabriella de Luca, investigative news reporter on television WPXI. Gabriella,
(02:12):
thank you for being with us. A couple of quick
questions that I'm going to move forward. The bouncy seat.
It's my understanding. It was eighteen inches off the ground,
that little bouncy seat. That one is that correct? Eighteen inches?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Effectives came in and actually measured the top of that
seat to the bottom and it came out to eighteen inches.
But keep in mind, when Versie first called nine to
one one, she actually said that it was a bascinette
so we have a bouncy seat.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You're right on again, Gabriella de Luca.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I was just headed toward the possibility that a child
could bounce out like a trampoline of a bouncy seat.
And I had both of my twins had bouncy seats.
They had the swings, they had the bouncy seats, they
had it all. They come with seat belts that said
eighteen inches. And I didn't know where that eighteen inch
(03:07):
number came from, and you just enlightened me.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I'm going to get to the conflicting stories in a moment.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And you know how I feel when people change their stories,
not add to their story.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
That's fine, changing your story not so much.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
But the eighteen inches, No, how can you have this
massive degree of brain injury from falling this far this far?
That's not going to happen. Okay, So that's where we
leave off. Let's take a look at the right to
the hospital.
Speaker 6 (03:42):
Listen, Rush to the hospital. Doctors discover Leon Katz has
a severe skull fracture to the left side of his
head and multiple brain bleeds. The jury suffered by the
six week old baby proof fatal, and he's pronounced dead.
The next morning at Children's Hospital. Police say Bercy has
no plausible explanation for the severity of lee injuries. Examining
the bouncer seat, detectives report that it's about eighteen inches
(04:05):
from the tallest point of the seat to the floor.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Gabriella de Luca from WPXI told us that, and I
guarantee you those measurements are correct in a situation like this,
joining me an all star panel. In addition to Gabriella
de Luca WPXI, I want to go straight to a
longtime colleague now friend, the esteemed chief Medical Examiner of
(04:28):
Terran County that's Fort Worth, and I can guarantee you
this never a lack of business for the medical Examiner
and Dallas Fort Worth area. Also a lecturer at the
Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Joining us, Doctor.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Crowns, thank you for taking time out of your schedule
and addressing this issue. Many of us have heard of
c HI closed head injuries. I coined CH eight eye
closed head homicidal injuries, close head injuries that end in
(05:06):
homicide charges.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But before I get to that, anacronym I want to
talk to you.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
About the possibility of the severity of baby lenn. Oh.
By the way, I'm going to circle back to Gabriella
de Luca because the other baby is also injured. This
couple has two children like me, two twins like me,
their infants. One is rushed to the hospital and the
(05:34):
other has severe injuries to its genitals. Okay, this woman
steps in the apartment, everything's fine, and in five hours
everything's gone haywire. Wow, what's the common denominator there? Her, her,
(05:54):
the babysitter, the glam as many people call her, not me, them,
the glamors. PhD student doctor Kendall crowns the likelihood of
baby Leon's injuries to be that severe from one fall
from an eighteen inch bouncy seat.
Speaker 7 (06:15):
Closed head injuries from eighteen inch fall is highly unlikely.
If a child was to get closed head injuries from
a fall of that nature, then when they're learning how
to walk and they'd fall, we'd have a lot more
at children having closed head injuries. So another thing you
have to think about is a baby's skull is kind
of pliable because they're still growing and it hasn't turned
(06:36):
a full bone yet. So really, an eighteen inch fall
could have startled the child, could have made him cry,
but it shouldn't have caused any injuries internally whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
When you're seeing that, it's chang showdown, Slow down, Slow down,
Doctor Kendall Crowns. I can see I'm going to have
to work with you before I put you on the stand.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Because everything you said is so probative for me, every sentence,
and I don't want to rush it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I'm usually ninety mph, but when you talk, I need
to dissect every sentence. Now you mentioned something about a
baby of this age head not being fully formed.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
What does that mean? Number one? And number two? What
does it help me prove? If anything? That's really all
I care about when it comes to facts. Can I
use it in court? Is it provative? Does it prove anything?
Speaker 7 (07:31):
So baby's skull at that age still has what are
called fontenelles or soft spots, and they're kind of at
the top of the head, a little bit towards the back,
and that's so the baby's head.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
One of the baby hair swirl is we can do
how the hair starts a little swirl back here.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You call that a.
Speaker 7 (07:48):
Fontanel, fontanele yeah, So as the child's head. As a
child matures, their brain gets bigger, the skull itself grows
with it. A skull at this time period isn't fully
hardened bone. It's bone, but it's still kind of very pliable,
so it can take a lot of a lot of
changes like cartilage. Somewhat somewhat like cartilage, but it's not cartilage.
(08:13):
It's just very young bone. But anyway, it's very pliable.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Does it have the elasticity of cartilage like the cartilage
in your nose or your ear?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Is it and I know it's bone, but is.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It elastic or pliable or movable like the carlage when
in your ear.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
Yes, baby's culls are very bendable. They can take a
lot of change in shape or deformation and they won't break.
So when you see a skull fracture or a close
head injury with a baby, there's a lot of force
behind it. It isn't going to be from an eighteen
inch fall, because if it was, all of us would
have died from head injury as babies, because we all
have falls. So when you see an injury like that,
(08:53):
you know that there's some sort of slamming force or
something like that that has occurred.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Do you you said it's practically impossible for baby Leon?
And remember he's just six weeks old. He's the one
with the severe skull fracture to the left side of
his head, with multiple brain bleeds. Ari is the twin
with a bloody, mysterious injury to genital's penis, swollen bruises
(09:24):
below the belly button, and scratches on his face. I'll
get to that in the moment. But these two little boys,
you're saying it's almost impossible or is it impossible for
child six weeks old can't crawl to fleeing, eject himself
(09:47):
from a car seat from a baby bouncer eighteen inches
in height, and die, to put it simply.
Speaker 7 (10:00):
With some sort of congenital abnormality or first effect. Yes,
it's impossible for that to have occurred.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, we already know that none of that existed.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
So it's impossible.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Trying to get a defenitive.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Look, I'm a JD, not a DDS, don't know how
to pull teeth, but I do have a set of
pliers here. So are you saying it would be impossible.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
For him to have ejected and have enough force or
velocity or speed to hit the ground and break his
skull and get hemorrhage of his brain and he's completely normal. Yes,
that would be impossible.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right now, so many thoughts are colliding in my head,
and I'm so grateful for you, doctor Kendall Crowns, because
I'm thinking about the little baby brother growing up his
whole life knowing he had a twin that was killed.
The parents this happening on the first Father's Day and
their anniversary.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And from then on out on that day, how can
they sell it?
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Baby Ari's birthday on the day that Leon was killed.
How can they celebrate their anniversary on that day? I mean,
you know, I'm projecting a lot, doctor Kendall Crowns, but
I know on August six, the day that my fiance
was murdered.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I don't know. This is crazy, right, and I'm not.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Superstitious at all, but I feel like whatever I do
that day is just going to.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Be jinxed and wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I don't like my twins driving, I don't want to
take a trip just I can't really describe it. It
doesn't make sense. But I'm glad I've got you and
the rest of our guests to keep me grounded in
these facts and not project So back to the injuries.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (11:44):
Doctors tell investigators about the injuries suffered by Leon's twin
brother Ari. He has small scratches on both sides of
his face, two bruises below his belly button, and swelling, bruising,
redness and scratches to his genitals. The doctor who examined
the injuries to both boys says they are consistent with
having been sustained as a result of child abuse, as
these are inflicted injuries that are not natural and not accidental,
(12:07):
noting that all of Leon's injuries were acute acute.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Gabriella du Luca has all the facts leading up to
this moment, but I want to quickly address closed head
homicidal injuries.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I want to go straight out.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
To doctor Melissa Merrick, President CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America,
and you can find her at Prevent child Abuse dot org. Okay,
doctor Merrick, thank you for being with us. Many people
are suspicious of closed head injuries, especially close head injuries
(12:49):
that result in death and subsequent homicide charges. You look
at the baby, and the baby seems fine because it's
closed head.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
The head is not split open. Explain this, yeah, thanks,
it can be.
Speaker 10 (13:04):
You know, we think about child abuse and we think
that there will always be a brew, a bruise or
a broken bone or something that we can see and
we know that there was harm. But actually, especially in
babies this young, under the age of one, that's the
time that's riskiest for child abuse. The most prevalent and
(13:24):
most of our child abuse deaths happen under the age
of one, and that's because, as you said that, some
of the injuries you don't see, so like shaken baby syndrome,
for example, that's a serious brain injury resulting from forcefully
shaking an infant. And like doctor Crown's already explained, you know,
the baby's brain is pliable and still working out, and
(13:47):
you shake all that up and brain cells can die.
There can be permanent damage and even death. Never ever
shake a baby because we may not see it, but
it can really cause tremendous arm.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Exactly now. Kelly Hymen joining us. A renowned trial lawyer
and TV legal analyst. She's the host of Once Upon
a Crime in Hollywood. That's a podcast. Kelly, Thank you
for being with us. Everything Melissa just said, doctor Merrick
said is correct. This is not a shaken baby syndrome incident.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But everything she said was correct.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Is it difficult to prove the case when a jury
looks at a baby's picture and it doesn't look like
anything's wrong with the baby.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
All the damage is internal.
Speaker 11 (14:36):
Experts are going to be key in this case, Nancy.
Speaker 12 (14:39):
So the experts are going to take the witness stand
and tell a story and tell exactly what happened and
what transpired. Now, the defended is innocent until proven guilty,
and they will have a time to cross examine that
person and poke holes in that. But that that is
going to be key in order to substantiate the case,
because the state brings the case the commonwealth and they
(15:01):
have the burden of proof and need to prove every
single element of the crime. And the experts are going
to be key taking the stand and telling what happened
from their perspective.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Savanna and Ethan Katz and trust longtime friend Nicole Versy
to care for newborn twins. Then Versy calls to inform
them of strange injuries found on one of the babies.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
That was just the beginning. I've got to understand the
timeline here. Let me go to Gabriella de Luca, investigative
TV news reporter wp XI. Gabriella, thank you for being
with us. Let me understand this. When you first read
a headline about this, it always says babysitter.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
She wasn't really the babysitter.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
She was a very dear family friend going back several
years and on her break from school where she was
getting her psych degree psychology degree, she got a break
I guess spring break, and chose to use that break
to visit the cat's family.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Now she is in school.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And she teaches spin classes. Correct the bicycle spin classes, right,
that's what she does.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
That's what we understand.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yes, Gabriella.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So she comes to visit, she wants an airbnb just
a few blocks away from the cat's family, and goes
over to visit, and the next thing you know, all
HGWL breaks loose. She hasn't been in that house over
an hour before. Let me just say it hits the fan.
(16:46):
Give me the timeline, Gabriella de Luca.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
So here's what we understand. Investigators are saying that she
came into town and from what we are gathering, she
came to almost have a celebration again. It was Father's Day,
it was the anniversary, and you have these beautiful twin
baby boys. Well, you know, I have twins myself. You
know how tired and nancy so do you, So you
(17:10):
know how tired, You get kind of get the idea
that she's there to help out. So the mother, I believe,
goes down for a nap. According to police, So it's
the father and this woman who are taking care of
the babies that day. I understand that she is, according
to police, changing the baby's diaper, Ari's diaper in the
(17:32):
hallway of their rooms.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Okay, wait a minute, did you say mommy's taking a nap.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yes, mom, according to police, was taking a nap.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Oh gosh, And you know I didn't know you were
the mama two twins.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
That's a luxury.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
That's unbelievable that in the middle of the day you
get to close your eyes for forty five minutes together.
So the mom's taking a nap and then the next thing, you.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Know, what happens.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
What we understand from police is that Nicole is changing
the baby's diaper and then notices these injuries to the baby.
We're talking scratches, bruises below the belly button, and then
some sort of injury to the baby's genital area. There
was swelling, and there was also blood in the diaper.
She apparently tells, according to police, the father of the
(18:23):
baby about these injuries. And that's the father right there.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
That is probative.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That proves something to me, Gabriella de Luca.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
She's the one that tells the father because.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
See a lot of people will say, oh, well, the
father was with the baby. No, the father was not
with the baby. The colversy was with baby. I'm talking
about baby Arii, the baby that lived. And she runs
and tells the dad, I'm with the baby and I
found this injury to his genitals. Now hold on genital injury, scratches, bruising,
(18:59):
swell on face, belly button scratches and genitals.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Okay, So she runs and tells the dead and there's
blood in the baby's.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Dipy, that's what police are saying. And she tells the
dad this and then the dad, apparently, you know, as
a parent, calls the doctor's office, calls the pediatrician, and
you know he's on the hotline. You know how it is,
you can't get through. You're waiting on the hotline.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
What do I do?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
What do I do? And he the guidance is to
take the baby to the hospital.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
You know, that's kind of what they always say. Thank goodness,
I want to focus on one other one while I'm
going down a rabbit hole. Here, Doctor John Delatory joining me,
licensed psychologist and mediator specializing in forensic psychology, and you
can find him at resolution FCS dot com.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Doctor Delatory.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
As I understand the facts, she volunteered to go change
the dipy, Gabrielle.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Is that true? He says, she changed a diapy. Yes, okay, so,
doctor Dolatory. Have you ever seen those people that create
a problem and then they fix it and then they're
the hero? Okay?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
They place themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, they place themselves at the location of.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
The incident, be it a crime or not a crime.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
She volunteers to go change the dipy, and then she says, ohoh,
his penis is swollen, there's blood in his dipy. He's
got scratches on his face. None of that was apparent
when she arrived. You think mom is going to go
(20:42):
take a nap with the baby's penis swollen and blood
in the dipy and scratches.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
All over him. No, no, the dad.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
No, They go in, they see the babies, and it's
then Mom says, okay, I'm taking a nap. The baby
was fine, no scratches on the face. This happened after
she volunteers to change the diaper. I know that's a
small fact, a subtle, but very critical fact in this
scenario and timeline.
Speaker 13 (21:11):
Yeah, and Nancy, what you're describing is what's called factitious
disorder biproxy. Used to be called Munchausen syndrome biproxy, And
I think that's the key element here, because sure, you
could probably hide the injuries that are happening underneath the diaper,
but you can't really hide the scratches to the face.
And that's the element that I think you're really harping
on as well as I would be sort of wanting
(21:34):
to investigate further, which is, well, if he had all
of these scratches, how come no one indicated that these
scratches were just there or could give a plausible reason
as to why the baby would have scratches, so anything
else could be hidden in You're absolutely right, Could they
have been caused by her.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sure they could have. Could any number.
Speaker 13 (21:54):
Of other reasons or other things have been happening. Those
could have happened as well. But why wasn't any one
actually told? Why would any of this be a shock?
And I think that's the element that we need to
really investigate for it now.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Interesting, Doctor John Delatory, I believe you said I was
harping on a fact. I don't know that being compared to.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
A harpie is exactly what I was going for.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I'm pointing out the fact, which I find extremely probative.
Agree or disagree with Kelly Hyman, that she and Nicole
Versy places herself alone, alone with maybe Ari at the
time his injuries to his digitals, his face, and his
stomach are first known. She is alone with the baby.
(22:39):
That's critical, Kelly.
Speaker 12 (22:41):
That will be something ultimately up for the experts. It
will be very interesting if they have some.
Speaker 14 (22:46):
Kind of therapist, psychologist, psychiatrists take the witness stand for
the prosecution to show motive, to show what the reasoning
was behind it. Nancy, if a fact was the fact
that she goes in and does this and then in
fact becomes their own hero, so to speak, that is
definitely something potentially I could see the expert psychologists psychiatrists
(23:12):
potentially testifying to and of course the defendants will have
the opportunity to cross examine and potentially present their own
experts as well. It appears that potentially one of their
defenses will be that it was an accident based on
what the attorney said to news reporters.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Of course, she remains innocent and our jurisprudence until she
is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
As parents of newborn Savannah and Ethan wait in the
er with the baby Ari, they receive an even more
worrying call. Baby Leon has fallen and is unresponsive.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
What their heads must have been blowing off there in
the er with baby Ari with gentitle swelling and cuts
and bruises. And they get an email or text I
guess from the PhD student, the glam PhD student, that
the other baby is now unresponsive due to a head injury. Okay,
(24:09):
who is this woman that the press insists on calling
calling a glamorous PhD student slash spin cyclist instructor.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Well, let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
Speaker 8 (24:24):
Listen, hi there, my name is Nicole Versy and I'm
the first author on the article titled Depression symptom patterns
as predictors of metabolic syndrome and cardiac events and centimatic
women suspected my cardial athemia.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
What okay, she's getting her psychology PhD. By the way,
that video is from the Heart and Mind Journal. I
bet they're proud today. But did you hear her state
I am the first author on the art of the article,
and I actually located the article.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And read it. My eyes were bleeding because it's beyond.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Anything we learned in law school or since so I'm
going to have to go back to doctor Kendall. Crown's
joining us now in Chief Medical Examiner Chief Medical Examiner
Terran County.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
The way I understood her article is that she is.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Describing the effects of depression or let me just say,
disturbing events in one's life, emotional events such as grief
or turbulence, the effect that those factors have as it
(25:41):
relates to comorbidity in a heart event of a woman. Translation,
I think what she's saying is if you're a depressed
or you have a traumatic life event like you lose
your job or you have to move or you.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Get a divorce, or there's a death in your family.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
How does that affect as a core code morbidity factor
in heart attacks or heart events?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Is that what she's saying.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
It does sound like that is what her article is saying,
that if you've had a traumatic life event, that you
are at the higher risk of having a higher attack
or a myocardialan farnction. The exact specific of the article,
I'd have to look at it, but I mean stressors
in life, of course, can affect you in a numerous ways.
I don't usually eat heart attacks. It's coronary artery disease
(26:29):
or cornary artery blockage. Not necessarily your life events, but
more of your poor dietary habits.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I think she's following up on the theory quote it
broke my heart.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So let's listen to more.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Nicole Versey in her video presentation, and you notice she
says I am the first author. When I read it,
I realized there were other co authors. I'd love to
hear their input on writing this article. With her note
to self find them. Listen to Nicole Versy The.
Speaker 8 (26:57):
Whys and Why CDD Projects, which is published part of
the Heart and Mind special issue on stressors and cardiovascular
disease in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
That video is from the Heart and Mind Journal, but
as you see her there, she looks very different than
she does in that mugshot. I want to get back
to the facts at issue here.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (27:16):
While spending time watching the twin boys, Ari and Leon,
Nicole Versey tells the parents she notices odd injuries on
Ari's genitals. Looking closer, the new parents decide to take
Ari to the hospital, leaving their other son, Ari's twin
Leon Katz, in the care of Nicole Bersey. Around six
thirty PM. Just after eleven PM, Ethan Katz and Savannah
Robertson get a call from Nicole Ersey telling them while
(27:39):
she was in the kitchen getting a bottle for Leon,
the baby fell from his bouncer seat and hit his head.
Ethan tells her to call nine to one one.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Back to our special guests joining us, Gabriella de Luca
joining us from WPXI. Gabriella, I just want to confirm
something I heard you say earlier and let you know,
elaborate on it if possible.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I'm understanding a change in the.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Story because right there we have her stating he fell
from the bouncy while she was getting a bottle. Okay,
later I hear she said he fell from a bacinet,
which is a completely different type of baby furniture.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
So what police are telling us is that when she
first made that nine to one one call, she said
told operators that this baby Leon fell from a bacinet.
Then it appears when investigators get there and when she
talks to them, she's saying that the baby was actually
in a bouncy seat that was unfastened, and that bouncy
(28:42):
seat was about eighteen inches off of the ground, and
if you're familiar with most bacinets, they're much higher than that.
So yes, there's a definite change in the story from
what police are telling us.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Let me go to Kelly him when joining us veteran
try a lawyer host of once by a.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Crime in Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Want to talk to you about a Moses basket that
is reportedly the type of bassinet this baby had along
with twin brother, the same kind I had for the twins.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Why did I pick the Moses basket?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Moses baskets replicate the basket that Moses baby Moses. You
remember he was put in the water and a little
basket made of reeds and floated down the water until
the king's daughter found him and took him in to
raise him.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Moses Moses basket.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
They don't have bars on the side for the baby
to stick its head through.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
They are elevated.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And they are solid all the way around like a basket,
and usually rise up on the side like a basket.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Think of Noah's art type basket. So if the baby.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Were to jump eject himself at six weeks, can't crawl,
can barely even set up. I'll have to go back
on Dr Crowns about that. But this baby, they can't
even sit up yet, probably jumps out of a bassinette
versus a baby bouncer which is just eighteen inches off
(30:16):
the ground. That's even more implausible.
Speaker 11 (30:21):
That tells a compelling story, and I can definitely see
the state who brings this case bringing that up that
there is no other reasonable explanation that what happened to
the baby because a person is innocent, but the state
has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and that.
Speaker 12 (30:40):
Is definitely key. Beyond a reasonable doubt. I can definitely
see that coming into place the fact that there is
no plausible explanation for this except for the fact that
the baby was harmed, and that's definitely something the state
will bring up and tells a very compelling story about
(31:00):
these beautiful, beautiful children.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Of course, she remains innocent and our jurisprudence until she
is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Doctors at the er are alarmed by the cat's twins
strange injuries and suspect something more sinister is afoot. Who
hurt the babies.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
In this case?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Back to you, I'm very curious about the relationship between
Versi and the parents, Gabriella de Luca. They have been
for instance, at least twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Do we know the capacity.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
We know that they were good friends, they were family friends,
and their families were friends. And we know that she
was in on a special weekend for them. It was
Father's Day, it was their anniversary. They have these six
week old twins. You know, most moms when they are
that postpartum, they only want people who are really close
to them coming to visit. You know, it's an emotional time.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Twins.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
There's a lot so based on what we are seeing
It seems like they were very good friends.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
They were close, and we have baby Leon back home,
and suddenly the parents get this call or an email.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Baby Leon has a head injury. He's unresponsive. Listen to what.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
The glam PhD student says to investigators.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Investigators speak to Nicole Versey and decide her story of
what happened to Leon Katz doesn't match up with the
severity of his injuries, as he would have only fallen
eighteen inches from the bouncer to the floor. Prosecutors consider
all the information before them and charge Nicole Versy with homicide,
aggravated assault, and endangering the welfare of children. Prosecutors also
file a notice of their intent to seek the death
(32:50):
penalty against Nicole Versy.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Out and now the babysitter, the friend. Nicoll Versi seems
shocked that prosecutors could seek the death penalty. Why is
it so often I see when the victim of an
attack is a baby that cannot speak for itself, those
(33:16):
cases are handled with sweetheart deals on voluntary manslaughter, no
murder charges. Not this time, Nicole Versey. Not this time,
Nicole Versey. He's considered innocent under our system. Seemingly shocked
that she could face life behind.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Bars without parole or the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I mean, let's just think it through, doctor John Delatory,
renowned psychologists joining us.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Think it through.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Let your mind follow these claims to their logical conclusion.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I know you don't like it, but do it. She
the adult, according to.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
The state, attacked this baby in its bascinet or bouncy
chair a six week old, talked an infant, leaving it
with so many fractures to the head it dies.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
And remember, if there are.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Multiple fractures, how did the baby get multiple fractures?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Not that just one fracture you might get from falling.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Did he bounce off the hardwood floor then fracture the
other part of his head if it's proven there are
multiple fractures. But think about the psychopathy, doctor Delty, of
attacking a baby, an infant in its bassie and doing
this to the infant. And now she's, oh, my stars,
(34:54):
I'm gonna get punished. What you also have to keep
in mind her background.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
She is a daughter of a very.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Well known and respected cardiologist that practices in Manhattan and
Mount Sinai impeccable credentials. Think about how she was brought
up most likely in the lap of luxury, and now
I'm going to get punished.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Hit me. No, I mean you're not wrong.
Speaker 13 (35:26):
I mean when we think about this, we have to
remember that conducting these kinds of evaluations, right, and I think,
I honestly think an evaluation she needs to happen here
because it is possible that factitious disorder by proxy is
at play.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
It is certainly possible.
Speaker 13 (35:41):
But you talk about her, you know, her father being
you know, affluent, or her father having all of these accolades,
Well she does too. I mean she's you know, a
PhD candidate. She has ten articles.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Already, five years.
Speaker 13 (35:57):
I mean that's how years. That's how long it's takes though, Nancy.
And it's troubling then, And I think, right, as a prosecutor,
you know, as a prosecutor, you don't need to prove
a motive, but the jury's going to want to know
a motive. The jury isn't just going to look at this.
And yes, her appearance, her education, everything, all of that
is going to come into play. They need to know
why this happened. Now, why did it happen?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Doctor John Delatory? Did you just tell me? I had
to take into account that she's glamorous, grew up with
a silver spoon in her.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Mouth, has accomplished almost after five years, getting her PhD.
Do I have to remind you that Brian Koberger.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Remember him, He's charged with form murders. He's a PhD
student too. Ted Bundy, he was in law school. He's
no idiot.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Alex Murdoch, he was a practicing and renowned lawyer. For
Pete's sake, are you telling me? I have to consider
their education and their lamb factor, how photogittic they are
before I look at the facts of what happened to
baby Ari, what happened to baby Leon.
Speaker 13 (37:08):
It's more to it than just you need to look
at their education. All of those individuals had a history
of problems. She has no history of problems at all
in any way, shape or form. So we do have
to think about what exactly it is so have a
history of problems, No, we do.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Ted Brandy was a serial killer until he was finally busted.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know what I have to look at to look.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
At the facts, and the facts are plain and simple,
regardless of what you say, Doctor Delatory. Doctor Melissa Merrick
joining US President CEO Prevent Child Abuse America, what is
your message today?
Speaker 10 (37:48):
In a nutshell, my message is that unfortunately, child's abuse
happens everywhere. Right, we need to get in front of it.
We need to allow families to have high quality, the
affordable childcare, to learn about adequate caregiving strategies, right to
have some of the load and the stressors that are
on them to be lifted. The Surgeon General just said
(38:12):
that parental stress is a public health crisis.
Speaker 8 (38:15):
Right.
Speaker 10 (38:15):
We know having two babies crying and little and we're
all stressed out, We're not getting enough sleep. That's not
just parents, but anyone that watches our child needs to
know how to soothe them and how to be appropriate.
But child abuse happens everywhere, no matter education, no matter income.
But it is always preventable, and all of us have
(38:37):
a role to play in preventing these crazy, crazy, sad
fatalities and harms to kids.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Doctor Kendall Crowns, what would the child have endured after
a blow to the head and brain swelling?
Speaker 7 (38:55):
So if he was still conscious, it would cause the
brain would from the blood would start swelling and would
cause severe headache, start the child to begin to throw
up and then eventually go into a coma and die.
But from the injuries described with the large fracture and
the brain bleed, to me, it sounds like the child
was swung into a hard surface, skulls fractured, he was
(39:18):
probably immediately unconscious.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
And you're right, Gabriella and doctor Crowns, it's only one
skull fracture to the left side of the head. But
with multiple brain bleeds, how does that happen, doctor Crowns?
From one fracture on the left side of the head,
which would indicate the person was right handed that threw him,
(39:41):
if it was in fact to throw, how could one
fracture to the left side of the skull result in
multiple brain bleeds.
Speaker 7 (39:51):
So I mean the skull fracture is one impact. You
have to remember the brain itself has a little bit
of space inside the skull, So if the child is
being shook and then slammed against the surface, the shaking
itself can cause tearing of the vessels of the brain
and then that can cause hemorrhage. So when I hear
(40:12):
something like that, it makes me feel like there was
a shaking incident followed by a slam to the ground.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
We wait as justice unfolds in our prayers for not
only Leon's baby, Leon's parents, but for baby Aurri, who
will grow knowing that he once had a twin brother.
Thank you to our guests for being with us to
enlighten and report on this very upsetting case. Nancy Grace
(40:45):
signing off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a glamor PhD student twenty nine,
volunteers to babysit ends up she tortures her dear friend's
twin baby boy dead according to reports, and now she's shocked.
(00:25):
She may be punished. That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
In that jurisdiction on death row, there.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Are no women, much less a glamorous young PhD student.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
A Pittsburgh family with newborn twin babies asks a longtime
friend to babysit. Matters take a turn for the worse.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I know how difficult it is to have twins, to
give birth to twins, to keep them alive. The twin
baby boys had been yearned for, sought after for so long,
and now mommy and daddy. Amazingly, this occurred on daddy's
(01:13):
first Father's Day and Mommy's and daddy's anniversary.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
What exactly happened? How did it all start?
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Listen Calling nine to one one around eleven to fifteen pm,
Nicole Versey tells the dispatcher that Leon has fallen from
a bascinette and bumped his head and is becoming unresponsive.
When police arrive at Versy tells police she falls asleep
with the baby in his bouncer seat. When she wakes up,
she goes to get a bottle from the kitchen for
the baby. While she is out of the room, she
hears Leon screaming and finds him on the floor with
(01:47):
a bump on his head. She tells police he fell
out of his bouncer seat.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Fell out of a bouncer see you know, the bouncy
kind that you have the baby with a seat belt
buckled in. We all start panel to make sense of
what we know right now. But first straight out to
Gabriella de Luca, investigative news reporter on television WPXI. Gabriella,
(02:12):
thank you for being with us. A couple of quick
questions that I'm going to move forward. The bouncy seat.
It's my understanding. It was eighteen inches off the ground,
that little bouncy seat. That one is that correct? Eighteen inches?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Effectives came in and actually measured the top of that
seat to the bottom and it came out to eighteen inches.
But keep in mind, when Versie first called nine to
one one, she actually said that it was a bascinette
so we have a bouncy seat.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You're right on again, Gabriella de Luca.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I was just headed toward the possibility that a child
could bounce out like a trampoline of a bouncy seat.
And I had both of my twins had bouncy seats.
They had the swings, they had the bouncy seats, they
had it all. They come with seat belts that said
eighteen inches. And I didn't know where that eighteen inch
(03:07):
number came from, and you just enlightened me.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I'm going to get to the conflicting stories in a moment.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And you know how I feel when people change their stories,
not add to their story.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
That's fine, changing your story not so much.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
But the eighteen inches, No, how can you have this
massive degree of brain injury from falling this far this far?
That's not going to happen. Okay, So that's where we
leave off. Let's take a look at the right to
the hospital.
Speaker 6 (03:42):
Listen, Rush to the hospital. Doctors discover Leon Katz has
a severe skull fracture to the left side of his
head and multiple brain bleeds. The jury suffered by the
six week old baby proof fatal, and he's pronounced dead.
The next morning at Children's Hospital. Police say Bercy has
no plausible explanation for the severity of lee injuries. Examining
the bouncer seat, detectives report that it's about eighteen inches
(04:05):
from the tallest point of the seat to the floor.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Gabriella de Luca from WPXI told us that, and I
guarantee you those measurements are correct in a situation like this,
joining me an all star panel. In addition to Gabriella
de Luca WPXI, I want to go straight to a
longtime colleague now friend, the esteemed chief Medical Examiner of
(04:28):
Terran County that's Fort Worth, and I can guarantee you
this never a lack of business for the medical Examiner
and Dallas Fort Worth area. Also a lecturer at the
Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Joining us, Doctor.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Crowns, thank you for taking time out of your schedule
and addressing this issue. Many of us have heard of
c HI closed head injuries. I coined CH eight eye
closed head homicidal injuries, close head injuries that end in
(05:06):
homicide charges.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But before I get to that, anacronym I want to
talk to you.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
About the possibility of the severity of baby lenn. Oh.
By the way, I'm going to circle back to Gabriella
de Luca because the other baby is also injured. This
couple has two children like me, two twins like me,
their infants. One is rushed to the hospital and the
(05:34):
other has severe injuries to its genitals. Okay, this woman
steps in the apartment, everything's fine, and in five hours
everything's gone haywire. Wow, what's the common denominator there? Her, her,
(05:54):
the babysitter, the glam as many people call her, not me, them,
the glamors. PhD student doctor Kendall crowns the likelihood of
baby Leon's injuries to be that severe from one fall
from an eighteen inch bouncy seat.
Speaker 7 (06:15):
Closed head injuries from eighteen inch fall is highly unlikely.
If a child was to get closed head injuries from
a fall of that nature, then when they're learning how
to walk and they'd fall, we'd have a lot more
at children having closed head injuries. So another thing you
have to think about is a baby's skull is kind
of pliable because they're still growing and it hasn't turned
(06:36):
a full bone yet. So really, an eighteen inch fall
could have startled the child, could have made him cry,
but it shouldn't have caused any injuries internally whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
When you're seeing that, it's chang showdown, Slow down, Slow down,
Doctor Kendall Crowns. I can see I'm going to have
to work with you before I put you on the stand.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Because everything you said is so probative for me, every sentence,
and I don't want to rush it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I'm usually ninety mph, but when you talk, I need
to dissect every sentence. Now you mentioned something about a
baby of this age head not being fully formed.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
What does that mean? Number one? And number two? What
does it help me prove? If anything? That's really all
I care about when it comes to facts. Can I
use it in court? Is it provative? Does it prove anything?
Speaker 7 (07:31):
So baby's skull at that age still has what are
called fontenelles or soft spots, and they're kind of at
the top of the head, a little bit towards the back,
and that's so the baby's head.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
One of the baby hair swirl is we can do
how the hair starts a little swirl back here.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You call that a.
Speaker 7 (07:48):
Fontanel, fontanele yeah, So as the child's head. As a
child matures, their brain gets bigger, the skull itself grows
with it. A skull at this time period isn't fully
hardened bone. It's bone, but it's still kind of very pliable,
so it can take a lot of a lot of
changes like cartilage. Somewhat somewhat like cartilage, but it's not cartilage.
(08:13):
It's just very young bone. But anyway, it's very pliable.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Does it have the elasticity of cartilage like the cartilage
in your nose or your ear?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Is it and I know it's bone, but is.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It elastic or pliable or movable like the carlage when
in your ear.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
Yes, baby's culls are very bendable. They can take a
lot of change in shape or deformation and they won't break.
So when you see a skull fracture or a close
head injury with a baby, there's a lot of force
behind it. It isn't going to be from an eighteen
inch fall, because if it was, all of us would
have died from head injury as babies, because we all
have falls. So when you see an injury like that,
(08:53):
you know that there's some sort of slamming force or
something like that that has occurred.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Do you you said it's practically impossible for baby Leon?
And remember he's just six weeks old. He's the one
with the severe skull fracture to the left side of
his head, with multiple brain bleeds. Ari is the twin
with a bloody, mysterious injury to genital's penis, swollen bruises
(09:24):
below the belly button, and scratches on his face. I'll
get to that in the moment. But these two little boys,
you're saying it's almost impossible or is it impossible for
child six weeks old can't crawl to fleeing, eject himself
(09:47):
from a car seat from a baby bouncer eighteen inches
in height, and die, to put it simply.
Speaker 7 (10:00):
With some sort of congenital abnormality or first effect. Yes,
it's impossible for that to have occurred.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Okay, we already know that none of that existed.
Speaker 7 (10:09):
So it's impossible.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Trying to get a defenitive.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Look, I'm a JD, not a DDS, don't know how
to pull teeth, but I do have a set of
pliers here. So are you saying it would be impossible.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
For him to have ejected and have enough force or
velocity or speed to hit the ground and break his
skull and get hemorrhage of his brain and he's completely normal. Yes,
that would be impossible.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Right now, so many thoughts are colliding in my head,
and I'm so grateful for you, doctor Kendall Crowns, because
I'm thinking about the little baby brother growing up his
whole life knowing he had a twin that was killed.
The parents this happening on the first Father's Day and
their anniversary.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And from then on out on that day, how can
they sell it?
Speaker 8 (11:00):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Baby Ari's birthday on the day that Leon was killed.
How can they celebrate their anniversary on that day? I mean,
you know, I'm projecting a lot, doctor Kendall Crowns, but
I know on August six, the day that my fiance
was murdered.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I don't know. This is crazy, right, and I'm not.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Superstitious at all, but I feel like whatever I do
that day is just going to.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Be jinxed and wrong.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I don't like my twins driving, I don't want to
take a trip just I can't really describe it. It
doesn't make sense. But I'm glad I've got you and
the rest of our guests to keep me grounded in
these facts and not project So back to the injuries.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (11:44):
Doctors tell investigators about the injuries suffered by Leon's twin
brother Ari. He has small scratches on both sides of
his face, two bruises below his belly button, and swelling, bruising,
redness and scratches to his genitals. The doctor who examined
the injuries to both boys says they are consistent with
having been sustained as a result of child abuse, as
these are inflicted injuries that are not natural and not accidental,
(12:07):
noting that all of Leon's injuries were acute acute.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Gabriella du Luca has all the facts leading up to
this moment, but I want to quickly address closed head
homicidal injuries.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I want to go straight out.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
To doctor Melissa Merrick, President CEO of Prevent Child Abuse America,
and you can find her at Prevent child Abuse dot org. Okay,
doctor Merrick, thank you for being with us. Many people
are suspicious of closed head injuries, especially close head injuries
(12:49):
that result in death and subsequent homicide charges. You look
at the baby, and the baby seems fine because it's
closed head.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
The head is not split open. Explain this, yeah, thanks,
it can be.
Speaker 10 (13:04):
You know, we think about child abuse and we think
that there will always be a brew, a bruise or
a broken bone or something that we can see and
we know that there was harm. But actually, especially in
babies this young, under the age of one, that's the
time that's riskiest for child abuse. The most prevalent and
(13:24):
most of our child abuse deaths happen under the age
of one, and that's because, as you said that, some
of the injuries you don't see, so like shaken baby syndrome,
for example, that's a serious brain injury resulting from forcefully
shaking an infant. And like doctor Crown's already explained, you know,
the baby's brain is pliable and still working out, and
(13:47):
you shake all that up and brain cells can die.
There can be permanent damage and even death. Never ever
shake a baby because we may not see it, but
it can really cause tremendous arm.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Exactly now. Kelly Hymen joining us. A renowned trial lawyer
and TV legal analyst. She's the host of Once Upon
a Crime in Hollywood. That's a podcast. Kelly, Thank you
for being with us. Everything Melissa just said, doctor Merrick
said is correct. This is not a shaken baby syndrome incident.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But everything she said was correct.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Is it difficult to prove the case when a jury
looks at a baby's picture and it doesn't look like
anything's wrong with the baby.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
All the damage is internal.
Speaker 11 (14:36):
Experts are going to be key in this case, Nancy.
Speaker 12 (14:39):
So the experts are going to take the witness stand
and tell a story and tell exactly what happened and
what transpired. Now, the defended is innocent until proven guilty,
and they will have a time to cross examine that
person and poke holes in that. But that that is
going to be key in order to substantiate the case,
because the state brings the case the commonwealth and they
(15:01):
have the burden of proof and need to prove every
single element of the crime. And the experts are going
to be key taking the stand and telling what happened
from their perspective.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Savanna and Ethan Katz and trust longtime friend Nicole Versy
to care for newborn twins. Then Versy calls to inform
them of strange injuries found on one of the babies.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
That was just the beginning. I've got to understand the
timeline here. Let me go to Gabriella de Luca, investigative
TV news reporter wp XI. Gabriella, thank you for being
with us. Let me understand this. When you first read
a headline about this, it always says babysitter.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
She wasn't really the babysitter.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
She was a very dear family friend going back several
years and on her break from school where she was
getting her psych degree psychology degree, she got a break
I guess spring break, and chose to use that break
to visit the cat's family.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Now she is in school.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And she teaches spin classes. Correct the bicycle spin classes, right,
that's what she does.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
That's what we understand.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yes, Gabriella.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So she comes to visit, she wants an airbnb just
a few blocks away from the cat's family, and goes
over to visit, and the next thing you know, all
HGWL breaks loose. She hasn't been in that house over
an hour before. Let me just say it hits the fan.
(16:46):
Give me the timeline, Gabriella de Luca.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
So here's what we understand. Investigators are saying that she
came into town and from what we are gathering, she
came to almost have a celebration again. It was Father's Day,
it was the anniversary, and you have these beautiful twin
baby boys. Well, you know, I have twins myself. You
know how tired and nancy so do you, So you
(17:10):
know how tired, You get kind of get the idea
that she's there to help out. So the mother, I believe,
goes down for a nap. According to police, So it's
the father and this woman who are taking care of
the babies that day. I understand that she is, according
to police, changing the baby's diaper, Ari's diaper in the
(17:32):
hallway of their rooms.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Okay, wait a minute, did you say mommy's taking a nap.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yes, mom, according to police, was taking a nap.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Oh gosh, And you know I didn't know you were
the mama two twins.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
That's a luxury.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
That's unbelievable that in the middle of the day you
get to close your eyes for forty five minutes together.
So the mom's taking a nap and then the next thing, you.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Know, what happens.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
What we understand from police is that Nicole is changing
the baby's diaper and then notices these injuries to the baby.
We're talking scratches, bruises below the belly button, and then
some sort of injury to the baby's genital area. There
was swelling, and there was also blood in the diaper.
She apparently tells, according to police, the father of the
(18:23):
baby about these injuries. And that's the father right there.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
That is probative.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
That proves something to me, Gabriella de Luca.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
She's the one that tells the father because.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
See a lot of people will say, oh, well, the
father was with the baby. No, the father was not
with the baby. The colversy was with baby. I'm talking
about baby Arii, the baby that lived. And she runs
and tells the dad, I'm with the baby and I
found this injury to his genitals. Now hold on genital injury, scratches, bruising,
(18:59):
swell on face, belly button scratches and genitals.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Okay, So she runs and tells the dead and there's
blood in the baby's.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Dipy, that's what police are saying. And she tells the
dad this and then the dad, apparently, you know, as
a parent, calls the doctor's office, calls the pediatrician, and
you know he's on the hotline. You know how it is,
you can't get through. You're waiting on the hotline.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
What do I do?
Speaker 5 (19:26):
What do I do? And he the guidance is to
take the baby to the hospital.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
You know, that's kind of what they always say. Thank goodness,
I want to focus on one other one while I'm
going down a rabbit hole. Here, Doctor John Delatory joining me,
licensed psychologist and mediator specializing in forensic psychology, and you
can find him at resolution FCS dot com.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Doctor Delatory.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
As I understand the facts, she volunteered to go change
the dipy, Gabrielle.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Is that true? He says, she changed a diapy. Yes, okay, so,
doctor Dolatory. Have you ever seen those people that create
a problem and then they fix it and then they're
the hero? Okay?
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
They place themselves.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, they place themselves at the location of.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
The incident, be it a crime or not a crime.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
She volunteers to go change the dipy, and then she says, ohoh,
his penis is swollen, there's blood in his dipy. He's
got scratches on his face. None of that was apparent
when she arrived. You think mom is going to go
(20:42):
take a nap with the baby's penis swollen and blood
in the dipy and scratches.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
All over him. No, no, the dad.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
No, They go in, they see the babies, and it's
then Mom says, okay, I'm taking a nap. The baby
was fine, no scratches on the face. This happened after
she volunteers to change the diaper. I know that's a
small fact, a subtle, but very critical fact in this
scenario and timeline.
Speaker 13 (21:11):
Yeah, and Nancy, what you're describing is what's called factitious
disorder biproxy. Used to be called Munchausen syndrome biproxy, And
I think that's the key element here, because sure, you
could probably hide the injuries that are happening underneath the diaper,
but you can't really hide the scratches to the face.
And that's the element that I think you're really harping
on as well as I would be sort of wanting
(21:34):
to investigate further, which is, well, if he had all
of these scratches, how come no one indicated that these
scratches were just there or could give a plausible reason
as to why the baby would have scratches, so anything
else could be hidden in You're absolutely right, Could they
have been caused by her.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sure they could have. Could any number.
Speaker 13 (21:54):
Of other reasons or other things have been happening. Those
could have happened as well. But why wasn't any one
actually told? Why would any of this be a shock?
And I think that's the element that we need to
really investigate for it now.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Interesting, Doctor John Delatory, I believe you said I was
harping on a fact. I don't know that being compared to.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
A harpie is exactly what I was going for.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I'm pointing out the fact, which I find extremely probative.
Agree or disagree with Kelly Hyman, that she and Nicole
Versy places herself alone, alone with maybe Ari at the
time his injuries to his digitals, his face, and his
stomach are first known. She is alone with the baby.
(22:39):
That's critical, Kelly.
Speaker 12 (22:41):
That will be something ultimately up for the experts. It
will be very interesting if they have some.
Speaker 14 (22:46):
Kind of therapist, psychologist, psychiatrists take the witness stand for
the prosecution to show motive, to show what the reasoning
was behind it. Nancy, if a fact was the fact
that she goes in and does this and then in
fact becomes their own hero, so to speak, that is
definitely something potentially I could see the expert psychologists psychiatrists
(23:12):
potentially testifying to and of course the defendants will have
the opportunity to cross examine and potentially present their own
experts as well. It appears that potentially one of their
defenses will be that it was an accident based on
what the attorney said to news reporters.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Of course, she remains innocent and our jurisprudence until she
is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
As parents of newborn Savannah and Ethan wait in the
er with the baby Ari, they receive an even more
worrying call. Baby Leon has fallen and is unresponsive.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
What their heads must have been blowing off there in
the er with baby Ari with gentitle swelling and cuts
and bruises. And they get an email or text I
guess from the PhD student, the glam PhD student, that
the other baby is now unresponsive due to a head injury. Okay,
(24:09):
who is this woman that the press insists on calling
calling a glamorous PhD student slash spin cyclist instructor.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Well, let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
Speaker 8 (24:24):
Listen, hi there, my name is Nicole Versy and I'm
the first author on the article titled Depression symptom patterns
as predictors of metabolic syndrome and cardiac events and centimatic
women suspected my cardial athemia.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
What okay, she's getting her psychology PhD. By the way,
that video is from the Heart and Mind Journal. I
bet they're proud today. But did you hear her state
I am the first author on the art of the article,
and I actually located the article.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
And read it. My eyes were bleeding because it's beyond.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Anything we learned in law school or since so I'm
going to have to go back to doctor Kendall. Crown's
joining us now in Chief Medical Examiner Chief Medical Examiner
Terran County.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
The way I understood her article is that she is.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Describing the effects of depression or let me just say,
disturbing events in one's life, emotional events such as grief
or turbulence, the effect that those factors have as it
(25:41):
relates to comorbidity in a heart event of a woman. Translation,
I think what she's saying is if you're a depressed
or you have a traumatic life event like you lose
your job or you have to move or you.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Get a divorce, or there's a death in your family.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
How does that affect as a core code morbidity factor
in heart attacks or heart events?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Is that what she's saying.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
It does sound like that is what her article is saying,
that if you've had a traumatic life event, that you
are at the higher risk of having a higher attack
or a myocardialan farnction. The exact specific of the article,
I'd have to look at it, but I mean stressors
in life, of course, can affect you in a numerous ways.
I don't usually eat heart attacks. It's coronary artery disease
(26:29):
or cornary artery blockage. Not necessarily your life events, but
more of your poor dietary habits.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I think she's following up on the theory quote it
broke my heart.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So let's listen to more.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Nicole Versey in her video presentation, and you notice she
says I am the first author. When I read it,
I realized there were other co authors. I'd love to
hear their input on writing this article. With her note
to self find them. Listen to Nicole Versy The.
Speaker 8 (26:57):
Whys and Why CDD Projects, which is published part of
the Heart and Mind special issue on stressors and cardiovascular
disease in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
That video is from the Heart and Mind Journal, but
as you see her there, she looks very different than
she does in that mugshot. I want to get back
to the facts at issue here.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (27:16):
While spending time watching the twin boys, Ari and Leon,
Nicole Versey tells the parents she notices odd injuries on
Ari's genitals. Looking closer, the new parents decide to take
Ari to the hospital, leaving their other son, Ari's twin
Leon Katz, in the care of Nicole Bersey. Around six
thirty PM. Just after eleven PM, Ethan Katz and Savannah
Robertson get a call from Nicole Ersey telling them while
(27:39):
she was in the kitchen getting a bottle for Leon,
the baby fell from his bouncer seat and hit his head.
Ethan tells her to call nine to one one.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Back to our special guests joining us, Gabriella de Luca
joining us from WPXI. Gabriella, I just want to confirm
something I heard you say earlier and let you know,
elaborate on it if possible.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I'm understanding a change in the.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Story because right there we have her stating he fell
from the bouncy while she was getting a bottle. Okay,
later I hear she said he fell from a bacinet,
which is a completely different type of baby furniture.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
So what police are telling us is that when she
first made that nine to one one call, she said
told operators that this baby Leon fell from a bacinet.
Then it appears when investigators get there and when she
talks to them, she's saying that the baby was actually
in a bouncy seat that was unfastened, and that bouncy
(28:42):
seat was about eighteen inches off of the ground, and
if you're familiar with most bacinets, they're much higher than that.
So yes, there's a definite change in the story from
what police are telling us.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Let me go to Kelly him when joining us veteran
try a lawyer host of once by a.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Crime in Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Want to talk to you about a Moses basket that
is reportedly the type of bassinet this baby had along
with twin brother, the same kind I had for the twins.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Why did I pick the Moses basket?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Moses baskets replicate the basket that Moses baby Moses. You
remember he was put in the water and a little
basket made of reeds and floated down the water until
the king's daughter found him and took him in to
raise him.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Moses Moses basket.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
They don't have bars on the side for the baby
to stick its head through.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
They are elevated.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
And they are solid all the way around like a basket,
and usually rise up on the side like a basket.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Think of Noah's art type basket. So if the baby.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Were to jump eject himself at six weeks, can't crawl,
can barely even set up. I'll have to go back
on Dr Crowns about that. But this baby, they can't
even sit up yet, probably jumps out of a bassinette
versus a baby bouncer which is just eighteen inches off
(30:16):
the ground. That's even more implausible.
Speaker 11 (30:21):
That tells a compelling story, and I can definitely see
the state who brings this case bringing that up that
there is no other reasonable explanation that what happened to
the baby because a person is innocent, but the state
has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and that.
Speaker 12 (30:40):
Is definitely key. Beyond a reasonable doubt. I can definitely
see that coming into place the fact that there is
no plausible explanation for this except for the fact that
the baby was harmed, and that's definitely something the state
will bring up and tells a very compelling story about
(31:00):
these beautiful, beautiful children.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Of course, she remains innocent and our jurisprudence until she
is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Doctors at the er are alarmed by the cat's twins
strange injuries and suspect something more sinister is afoot. Who
hurt the babies.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
In this case?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Back to you, I'm very curious about the relationship between
Versi and the parents, Gabriella de Luca. They have been
for instance, at least twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Do we know the capacity.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
We know that they were good friends, they were family friends,
and their families were friends. And we know that she
was in on a special weekend for them. It was
Father's Day, it was their anniversary. They have these six
week old twins. You know, most moms when they are
that postpartum, they only want people who are really close
to them coming to visit. You know, it's an emotional time.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Twins.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
There's a lot so based on what we are seeing
It seems like they were very good friends.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
They were close, and we have baby Leon back home,
and suddenly the parents get this call or an email.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Baby Leon has a head injury. He's unresponsive. Listen to what.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
The glam PhD student says to investigators.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Investigators speak to Nicole Versey and decide her story of
what happened to Leon Katz doesn't match up with the
severity of his injuries, as he would have only fallen
eighteen inches from the bouncer to the floor. Prosecutors consider
all the information before them and charge Nicole Versy with homicide,
aggravated assault, and endangering the welfare of children. Prosecutors also
file a notice of their intent to seek the death
(32:50):
penalty against Nicole Versy.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Out and now the babysitter, the friend. Nicoll Versi seems
shocked that prosecutors could seek the death penalty. Why is
it so often I see when the victim of an
attack is a baby that cannot speak for itself, those
(33:16):
cases are handled with sweetheart deals on voluntary manslaughter, no
murder charges. Not this time, Nicole Versey. Not this time,
Nicole Versey. He's considered innocent under our system. Seemingly shocked
that she could face life behind.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Bars without parole or the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
I mean, let's just think it through, doctor John Delatory,
renowned psychologists joining us.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Think it through.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Let your mind follow these claims to their logical conclusion.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I know you don't like it, but do it. She
the adult, according to.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
The state, attacked this baby in its bascinet or bouncy
chair a six week old, talked an infant, leaving it
with so many fractures to the head it dies.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
And remember, if there are.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Multiple fractures, how did the baby get multiple fractures?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Not that just one fracture you might get from falling.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Did he bounce off the hardwood floor then fracture the
other part of his head if it's proven there are
multiple fractures. But think about the psychopathy, doctor Delty, of
attacking a baby, an infant in its bassie and doing
this to the infant. And now she's, oh, my stars,
(34:54):
I'm gonna get punished. What you also have to keep
in mind her background.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
She is a daughter of a very.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Well known and respected cardiologist that practices in Manhattan and
Mount Sinai impeccable credentials. Think about how she was brought
up most likely in the lap of luxury, and now
I'm going to get punished.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Hit me. No, I mean you're not wrong.
Speaker 13 (35:26):
I mean when we think about this, we have to
remember that conducting these kinds of evaluations, right, and I think,
I honestly think an evaluation she needs to happen here
because it is possible that factitious disorder by proxy is
at play.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
It is certainly possible.
Speaker 13 (35:41):
But you talk about her, you know, her father being
you know, affluent, or her father having all of these accolades,
Well she does too. I mean she's you know, a
PhD candidate. She has ten articles.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Already, five years.
Speaker 13 (35:57):
I mean that's how years. That's how long it's takes though, Nancy.
And it's troubling then, And I think, right, as a prosecutor,
you know, as a prosecutor, you don't need to prove
a motive, but the jury's going to want to know
a motive. The jury isn't just going to look at this.
And yes, her appearance, her education, everything, all of that
is going to come into play. They need to know
why this happened. Now, why did it happen?
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Doctor John Delatory? Did you just tell me? I had
to take into account that she's glamorous, grew up with
a silver spoon in her.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Mouth, has accomplished almost after five years, getting her PhD.
Do I have to remind you that Brian Koberger.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Remember him, He's charged with form murders. He's a PhD
student too. Ted Bundy, he was in law school. He's
no idiot.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Alex Murdoch, he was a practicing and renowned lawyer. For
Pete's sake, are you telling me? I have to consider
their education and their lamb factor, how photogittic they are
before I look at the facts of what happened to
baby Ari, what happened to baby Leon.
Speaker 13 (37:08):
It's more to it than just you need to look
at their education. All of those individuals had a history
of problems. She has no history of problems at all
in any way, shape or form. So we do have
to think about what exactly it is so have a
history of problems, No, we do.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Ted Brandy was a serial killer until he was finally busted.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know what I have to look at to look.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
At the facts, and the facts are plain and simple,
regardless of what you say, Doctor Delatory. Doctor Melissa Merrick
joining US President CEO Prevent Child Abuse America, what is
your message today?
Speaker 10 (37:48):
In a nutshell, my message is that unfortunately, child's abuse
happens everywhere. Right, we need to get in front of it.
We need to allow families to have high quality, the
affordable childcare, to learn about adequate caregiving strategies, right to
have some of the load and the stressors that are
on them to be lifted. The Surgeon General just said
(38:12):
that parental stress is a public health crisis.
Speaker 8 (38:15):
Right.
Speaker 10 (38:15):
We know having two babies crying and little and we're
all stressed out, We're not getting enough sleep. That's not
just parents, but anyone that watches our child needs to
know how to soothe them and how to be appropriate.
But child abuse happens everywhere, no matter education, no matter income.
But it is always preventable, and all of us have
(38:37):
a role to play in preventing these crazy, crazy, sad
fatalities and harms to kids.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Doctor Kendall Crowns, what would the child have endured after
a blow to the head and brain swelling?
Speaker 7 (38:55):
So if he was still conscious, it would cause the
brain would from the blood would start swelling and would
cause severe headache, start the child to begin to throw
up and then eventually go into a coma and die.
But from the injuries described with the large fracture and
the brain bleed, to me, it sounds like the child
was swung into a hard surface, skulls fractured, he was
(39:18):
probably immediately unconscious.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
And you're right, Gabriella and doctor Crowns, it's only one
skull fracture to the left side of the head. But
with multiple brain bleeds, how does that happen, doctor Crowns?
From one fracture on the left side of the head,
which would indicate the person was right handed that threw him,
(39:41):
if it was in fact to throw, how could one
fracture to the left side of the skull result in
multiple brain bleeds.
Speaker 7 (39:51):
So I mean the skull fracture is one impact. You
have to remember the brain itself has a little bit
of space inside the skull, So if the child is
being shook and then slammed against the surface, the shaking
itself can cause tearing of the vessels of the brain
and then that can cause hemorrhage. So when I hear
(40:12):
something like that, it makes me feel like there was
a shaking incident followed by a slam to the ground.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
We wait as justice unfolds in our prayers for not
only Leon's baby, Leon's parents, but for baby Aurri, who
will grow knowing that he once had a twin brother.
Thank you to our guests for being with us to
enlighten and report on this very upsetting case. Nancy Grace
(40:45):
signing off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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