December 10, 2024 • 41 mins
Just hours after Luigi Mangione was taken into custody in Pennsylvania, he faced a murder charge.
The second-degree murder charge joined charges of forgery, carrying firearms without a license, tampering with records or identification, possessing instruments of crime, and providing false identification to law enforcement authorities. The initial charges were local to Pennsylvania.
However, the NYPD also charged Mangione with possession of a loaded firearm, possession of a forged instrument, and criminal possession of a weapon. Mangione will be extradited to New York, but that transfer likely will not happen for several days.
Mangione was arrested while sitting in the back of an Altoona McDonald's. He was wearing a mask, eating breakfast, and looking at his laptop when an employee suspected he was the subject of a manhunt out of New York.
Altoona police arrived, and Mangione began to shake when officers asked him to lower his mask and confirm if he had been in New York recently. A search of Mangione revealed a ghost gun, a silencer, and multiple fake IDs. Officers arrested the 26-year-old on several charges but not for the murder of Brian Thomas.
Mangione faces charges of forgery, carrying a firearm without a license, tampering with records or identification, possession of instruments of crime, and providing false identification to law enforcement. When asked if he needed a public defender, Mangione replied that he would "answer that at a future date.
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY:
- Jason Oshins - NY Defense Attorney
- Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); X: @DrBethanyLive/ Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Appearing in “Paris in Love” on Peacock; BOOK: “Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away”
- Tara Malek – Boise, ID, Attorney & Co-owner of Smith + Malek; Former State and Federal Prosecutor; Twitter: @smith_malek
- Sheryl McCollum – Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of Podcast: “Zone 7;” X: @149Zone7
- Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter/X: @JoScottForensic
- Germania Rodriguez – Chief US Reporter at Daily Mail (DailyMail has a podcast out now called “The Trial of Diddy”}
- Dave Mack - Crime Online Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, an IVY league grad turned
assassin now charged with murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Breaking a person of interest identified in the United Healthcare
CEO shooting. A man taken into custody in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Straight out to Chief of Detectives NYPD Joe Kinney, A.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Man was taking it to custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania
this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. This
(00:53):
case was brought to a successful conclusion based on the
co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including the Intelligence
and counter Terrorism Bureau, of federal partners at the FBI,
the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, members of
the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Repeat for those.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Of you just joining us, bombshell. An arrest has been
made in the so called health Boss murder of all people,
an IVY League grad turn assassin born with a silver
spoon in his mouth right now in isolation and a
(01:32):
Pennsylvania CI Correctional Institute at Huntingdon.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
How did a guy with everything turn into a cold
blooded assassin? Joining me in All Star Panel Straight Out
to Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Dailymail
dot Com and star of the podcast The Trial of
Didi Hermania.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Tell tell me about the arrest? Right.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So, finally, after a five day manhunt, police found a suspect,
Luigi Mandiano, at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. Actually, police now
say that he had been in the state, moving back
and forth between Pittsburgh and other places for days. It
appears that an employee at McDonald's called police after someone
(02:24):
recognized him and said he was acting suspicious. Police said
yesterday that when they approached him, he gave the same
fake ID from New Jersey that he had given to
check into the hostel in New York. Now, when police
asked him if he had recently been to New York,
that's when he started shaking and became very nervous, and
(02:44):
that's when he was arrested. And now he's been now
charged with the murder of Brian Thompson.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Take a listen to Tyler Fry.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Now, this is a rookie police officer, was formerly with
the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Listen whatever we got on to.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Seeing there, we were able to pretty much find where
he was at the in the restaurant, and as soon
as he pulled he was wearing a blue medical mask.
As soon as we pulled that down, or we asked
him to pull it down, we me and my partner
and I recognized him immediately. He didn't even think twice
about it. We knew that was our guy, but he
was very he was very cooperative with us, didn't really
(03:26):
give us too many issues. Once we found out his identity,
we took it from.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
There time or Fry being lauded today in making the arrest.
That's where our friends at eleven Alive. To Dave Matt,
crime online dot Com investigative reporter who's been on the
case from the very beginning. Dave Matt, the big conflicting
reports did to MacDonald's employee, I d him or was
in an elderly patron who identified Maggioni, Luigi Maggioni and
(03:55):
that patron then alerted an employee.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And the employee he called nine one one. How did
it go down, Mack?
Speaker 6 (04:02):
That is exactly how it happened, Nancy. An elderly couple
looking over noticed him. He was sitting in the very
back of the restaurant. He's got his little blue mask up.
He's sitting there eating breakfast, looking at his laptop. But
an elderly man inscribes him back there and goes to
an employee says, I think that's the guy. So the
employee calls and the police were right there.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now I've heard that he was acting suspiciously. To Cheryl
mccollumy's joining me, forensic expert and director of the Cold
Case Research Institute, star of hit podcast Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Cheryl, you have to have a.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Reason to detain, Okay, not arrest, but to detain.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's an age.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Old similar case us versus Terry.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Okay, to stop someone.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Just to ask for ID so to say he was
acting suspiciously, the guys in the back booth out of
McDonald's on his laptop. I don't know what is suspicious
about that. I'll tell you what I think, Cheryl. I
think they identified him. The patron identify, find him and go, hey,
that's the guy I'm seeing on TV that's shot down.
The CEO and the employee call nine one one. I
(05:08):
don't know what's suspicious about that, but a police officer
has the right, based on intuition, to ask you for ID.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That is okay.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
They were called there because two people, not one, thought hey,
that looks like the guy, and if he's eating breakfast,
he's having to move that mask a little bit to
take a bite. Once they approach him, law enforcement says, hey,
we were called here. Let me just go ahead and
see your ID. The ID that he gives them is
the same sake New Jersey ID that he gave to
(05:41):
the hostel. At that point, they're like, this is the guy.
We also recognize him from the photograph that NYPD put out,
And I just want to say that is absolutely fantastic
police work that they put his face out so fast
that somebody in Pennsylvania is going to recognize him.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Joining you right now.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
High profile lawyer, defense attorney Jason Oceans, who practices in
this jurisdiction, Jason Oceans, don't you just hate it as
a defense attorney when the cops do it by the book,
there's really nothing for you to complain about.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And can't you just see it. After my dad retired.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
From the railroad, a group of his friends he would
occasionally go, very rarely, but they would get together at McDonald's. Okay,
they're not paying five dollars for a cup of coffee
at Starbucks. And they would be there every day, many
of them military vets like my father. And can't you
just see people that go to McDonald's every day and
(06:43):
they're sitting there going, Oh my stars, that's him.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
And the police did not screw it up. This rookie
formally a sheriff, however, comes.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
In, he's got a suspicion and he does a terry
goold terry stop.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I think you highlighted that way.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
And know as a defense attorney, listen, you're presented the
evidence and the facts as they are.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Nancy, you know, we don't make that up.
Speaker 8 (07:06):
We might highlight things or focus on different aspects to
ensure you.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Know, justice, if you will.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
But it was a great stop.
Speaker 8 (07:14):
And you quite properly note that he was experienced as
a sheriff. So we might have been a rookie to
the Altuona PD, but certainly his instincts kicked in, moved
the mass, secured the scene, made sure that he was
safe and his partner, and you know, kudos to DENYPD
and getting the information out the picture, as it's been
noted that was widespread national news and really just good
(07:37):
old police detective work.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Hey Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective, thirty years
in the city, now star.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Of the Goldshield Show. It's a podcast, Tom Smith, thank
you for being with me. Tom.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
You know how wrong this could have gone, how sideways
it could have all turned. You know, he had the
ghost gun with him, and one of the gun charges
against him, he's got multiple gun charges is a he's
got a suppressor aka silencer. But also he had a
loaded illegal gun. There wasn't just some amo in his backpack.
(08:11):
That gun was loaded.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know how wrong this takedown could have gone.
Speaker 9 (08:16):
They could have gone terribly wrong. The good thing was
they got him kind of by surprise. They got him
in a confined area, and the deputies who showed up
did a masterful job at doing this. They got on
top of him quick before he could do anything or
think about anything. And like I said, being in that
corner helped them a lot and they took advantage of that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
You mean him sitting in a back booth in the corner. Yeah,
there was nowhere for him.
Speaker 9 (08:39):
To go, absolutely, And that's what you're talking about, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You know that's what Smith. This is when I asked
you what could have gone wrong?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I was a rookie ADA Assistant District attorney in inter
city Atlanta and had befriended a cop, a rookie cop
that had testified in a lot of I was putting
up to the grand jury, Randy Shapani, and he made
a routine traffic stop.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Routine traffic stop. That was it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
The guy rolled down, the driver rolled down the window,
took a gun and shot him in the head, just.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Like that for nothing. So you never know when is
going to be your last day all the police force.
Speaker 10 (09:23):
Tom Oh.
Speaker 9 (09:23):
Yeah, I lived with that for thirty years. And that's
what I mean by the great actions of this deputy.
He didn't let him get in upper hand. He took
control of the situation and had him covered, giving him
no way to get out of that area or to
any overt act towards the officers.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
According to a friend of his, his vertebra were about
a quarter to a half inch disaligned. The pain was
excruciating and possibly had pinched a nerve.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Dave Matt Crime Online.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Isn't it true that he confided her friends and his
coshier on the fortieth floor of a Hawaii high rise
that he couldn't have sex because.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Of back pain.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
It's a constant, agonizing feelings that he had all the time,
and talking about not being able to have sex was
just a way of him expressing that this was a
chronic situation with no relief insight. It's like rusting from
the inside.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Nancy Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Joining me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of Body
Bags with Josephcott Morgan. Joe Scott explain the intense pain,
intense pain that comes along with a back ailment like
(10:56):
that and how that factors in to a young man
twenty six years old they can have sex.
Speaker 10 (11:03):
Yeah, it would be horribly frustrating Nancy over this period
of time, and you can see the horrific appearance of this.
The surgery in and of itself is something that he
would have been laid up with for a protracted period
of time. We've got four screws that are being demonstrated here,
and this is a crucial pivot point in the axis
(11:25):
of your body. So he would have been dealing with
chronic pain, Nancy. One of the things I'm wondering about,
and I talked to Bethany about this off air, I
really wonder if he was taking medication for pain management
relative to this, because this is not something that would
have just you know, he would have just healed from
(11:45):
it very easily. We have to understand how far post
surgical he is to try to understand this. Was he
under the influence of any kind of medication and did
he even have a doctor that he was following.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I know where you're going with this. This is like
pouring gas on the fire. For Jason Ocean's defense attorney,
whether he was on pain meds or not does not
change intent to fire the weapon. He is currently charged
with at least three crimes one murder two in New York.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Why not murder one? Murder one in New York? Correct
me if I'm wrong, Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Murder one is usually reserved for a police officer. A
correctional officer that has been killed, torture is used. That's
when we see a murder one. Charged with murder one, Yeah,
you can get life without parole murder two, Jason, Police,
I don't mind if you interrupt.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Murder two is when you intend to do the act.
It's not an accident.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It's not drunk driving, it's not voluntary manslaughter. It's not
a heat of passion. You mean to.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Pull the trigger.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, the sentence from murder II in New York is
fifteen to life. There is no life without parole for
murder two. He's charged with that. He's charged with forging
and that's probably going to be his passport, and he's
charged that is called forged document, either the passport or
(13:20):
the driver's license, and he's yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And he's charged with.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
One count of criminal possession of a weapon including a suppressor,
a silencer, and I believe he's going to be charged
with possession of live AMMO and a gun. Also, he
had a weapon without a serial number on it.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We know it was a ghost gun.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Now And unless I'm wrong on those charges, Jason, do
I have any of that wrong?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Quickly, no great recitation.
Speaker 8 (13:57):
The top count would be a murder two, you know,
murder one referred as you did reference only to law
enforcement officers.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Joe Scott Morgan is talking about isy on pain medication.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Save it for the jury because he had this intense,
intense period of time, an extended period of time where
he planned this, and there is no way he's going
to walk because he says, oh, I took a xenax.
He may have been on pain medication, although we have
not been told he had it with him.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
We know he was exploring.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Alternative methods of healing and pain release, such as magic mushrooms,
but he had the wherewithal to have a gun with
him and a fake passport, according to the NYC Police Commissioner.
Speaker 11 (14:46):
Tish, Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously
and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a
US passport. Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on
his person, as well as a suppressor, both consistent with
the weapon used in the murder. They also recovered clothing,
(15:08):
including a mask consistent with those worn by our wanted
individual Bombshell.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
In the last hours, an arrest goes down of the
so called assassin wanted and the cold blooded execution of
health care boss that ran United health Care raking in
millions of dollars a year. While zany theories circulated on
(15:34):
social media that Thomson had actually hired someone to kill him.
There were illusions that Thomson's wife was somehow involved and.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It set up a hit. All of that is bogus,
All of that is bs.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Instead, what we've got is a twenty six year old
Ivy League grad double major from University of Pennsylvania. Yet
that's him if you look at his social media. He
and his family have traveled all around the world. He
had the best of everything. His grandparents Italian immigrants that
(16:16):
can be traced back straight to Sicily work their fingers
to the bone to build a financial empire, bought country clubs,
golf course, started them home health care, living facilities for seniors.
All that money, all that education, all that privilege, and
(16:36):
what does he do, According to.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Police, guns down United.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Healthcare CEO and boy, according to them, did he have
it all planned out, including the use of a three
D manufacturer at home. Ghost gun, no serial number, no
way to identify it. As a matter of fact, if
(17:03):
you do your research, you will learn that ghost guns
are only trace less than one percent.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Of the time.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
He thought he had it all figured out until an
elderly patron having coffee at McDonald's saw him and raised
the alarm.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
What mortem I listen also recovered was a fraudulent New
Jersey ID, matching the ID our suspect used to check
into his New York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally,
officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his
motivation and mindset.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh my stars, another manifesto.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Nothing can make me happier than to have an accused
killer write a manifesto about their feelings.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Joining me.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho an wants to joining us
out of la author of deal Breaker. You can see
her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
We hear.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Veteran trial lawyer Jason Ocean's jumping on something. Joe Scott
Morgan rightly said, could this guy have been on pain meds?
But did you just hear the New York City Police
Commissioner Tish state that he had this very well thought
out manifesto? He had fake IDs. The degree of pre
(18:29):
planning is off the chart. Now, why he decided to
keep his beloved ghost gun with him, which absolutely ties.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Him to the murder, is beyond me.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I guess that Ivy League grad from graduate degree from
University Pennsylvania didn't help anything when it comes to this. Hey,
this photo of the fake ID that he apparently obtained
from New Jersey under the name Mark Rosario. That took
some thinking or from our friends at CNN. So doctor Bethany,
could you help me shoot down what Scott Morgan and
(19:00):
Jason ogens have concocted. I took his annex, and therefore
I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 12 (19:06):
Well, Luigi Mangioni's actions are consistent with multiple pathologies psychopathologies.
First of all, he's extraordinarily entitled to think that he
could solve the whole healthcare crisis, that he's going to
get rid of these parasites. He's anti capitalists. He's also
very that's grandiose, it's entitled to take somebody's life. I
(19:30):
don't believe this whole thing about the relative who was sick.
I think that's just a rationalization for murder. I think
he's been homicidal since his youth. He wears what we
call the mask of sanity.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
On hold on, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
He's brought up a really good point, and I don't
want it to get lost in the sauce.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
People are trying to rationalize it. They can't believe, Oh, what's.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
A millionaire boy like Luigi Manngioni with his Ivy League degree,
Why would he do such a thing? You know what
about it gives it that much thought when it's street crime, like, hey,
book him, he's guilty, But now we're like.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Oh, why did he do it?
Speaker 12 (20:09):
I think, actually there's a clear motive, and to me,
he has this type. He would be consistent with the
type of psychopathology where the person attacks the very institutions
of people who are.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Trying to help them.
Speaker 12 (20:22):
Okay, so think of the person in a restaurant who
screams at the waiter who's trying to do everything for them.
They just think they can't get enough service, these babylike people.
So he's anti capitalist, but he comes from a very
wealthy family from whom he has benefite.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
How can you be anti capitalist when you were at
the trough of capitalism exactly eating more than anybody else
you're a pig.
Speaker 12 (20:48):
Yeah, well, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. In other words,
people who want more and more and more and never
works out well for them. And also, you know he
has this Ivy League education. He's also anti medicine, anti insurance.
I bet he build I bet insurance covered for that
very extensive procedure that he had.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So this again is.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
Where he's attacking the institutions that are there to help him.
So some people's pathology is such that they always think
things are being done to them rather than for them.
And when these people go to the hospital, they think
the doctors, the nurses, everybody's you know, torturing them, not
giving them what they need, and they have a difficult
time putting themselves in the doctor's shoes, the fact that
(21:33):
the doctor is there to help them. In terms of medication, Nancy,
the only role I could see is that opioids, and
most surely he has prescribed those activate the MEW receptors
in the brain, and that those are the same receptors
that are activated when our mothers hold us as children.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So given that, Ethne, why just a moment plays We're
showing photos of him on the each in Hawaii. Okay,
I don't know who can I work every day, my
husband works every day, My twins go to school every day,
and they work in the summer. Who has time to
take this much time off in Hawaii and live in
(22:18):
a luxury high rise.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
How does that happen? Yet, you're anti capitalist. That doesn't
make sense to me. Two and two is not equally four.
Speaker 12 (22:27):
No, it doesn't equal four unless you think of somebody
who is extremely disturbed and they are resentful and envious
of the people who are.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Giving something to them. Think of babies.
Speaker 12 (22:37):
The minute the mother leaves the room, the baby screams
and cries and wants the mother even more. And that's
appropriate for infancy. But the baby doesn't really care or
is not able to grasp that the mother might be
tired or depressed or whatever, has other siblings to take
care of. And so if someone gets stuck in that
(22:57):
developmental phase, nothing that they're given is enough, and they
don't care about anybody around them.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
They scream and cry for whatever they want.
Speaker 13 (23:06):
In high school, he is the valedictorian of the Gilman
School for Boys, a private school in Baltimore. As an
Ivy League graduate of the University of Pennsylvania. He is
a tech whiz, but somewhere along the way, Luigi Mangioni
developed a grudge against the medical community, either due to
how a sick relative is treated or maybe his own treatment.
An X ray photo on his ex account shows four
(23:27):
pins in a spine, and he has five books involving
chronic back pain on his reading list on his Goodreads account.
Speaker 14 (23:32):
So the class of twenty sixteen that only explored new
frontiers but also maintained Gilman's most important traditions. I think
this combination of preservation and exploration is what Gilman is
all about. Gilman maintains his classic core values by cultivating minds, body,
and spirit and its students, but also champions and environment
(23:53):
of acceptance and diversity while selling in his technological endeavors.
Our imagination, drawsmir ins, and our courage largely depends when
your encouragement in the classroom, on the fields, and on
the stage. So parents and faculty, thank you for all
you have done for us today is as much an
(24:13):
achievement for you as it is for us.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
That is from the Gilman School, which is a private
college preparatory school for boys only costs.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I think over forty grand a year.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I guarantee you he wasn't bussing tables to pay that
tuition bill.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensic expert and street cup.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So often when we prosecute and investigate crimes, we see
the defendant and this is not an excuse at all,
comes from low income, a low education or no education,
no job, and.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
They end up committing crimes. That's not an excuse.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
There is no justification for a violent crime, period. But
rarely do you see an ivy league grad with multi
millionaire family members commit a crime like this, And even
more rare, it's when the first crime, now true, he
(25:20):
had a Hawaii violation of going into some part of
a public park that was closed off to the public.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
You rarely see someone go from zero to one twenty
mph a premeditated murder. So you got the silver spoon
and you got the zero to one twenty mph going
on here.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
Well, let's talk about Wales. You got you got intelligence
versus streets marts, which he doesn't have any which is
the reason he was caught. If you look and you
think of back pain, imagine severe back pain. But you're
hunched over, right in a manifesto. You're hunched over building
a ghost gun. You're hunched over white known bullets. You
(26:02):
decide to take a bus which is gonna take you
four times as long as you if you drove yourself,
and then you're gonna hop on a freaking bicycle. It
doesn't look like back pain to me. It looks like
his motive is clearly in his mind. Only in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Well true, he may have been driven to distraction by
the back pain, we.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Know that, But murder is not Murder is not the answer.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
We were listening to Luigi Mangioni as the valedictorian at
the Gilman School, speaking about all the values that the
Gilman School maintains.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
This guy came from so much privileged. Listen.
Speaker 15 (26:49):
The suspected killer of United Health CEO Brian Thompson comes
from a wealthy, educated, connected Maryland family. His grandfather grew
up poor as a first generation American who built a
real estate business that includes country clubs and media investments.
Mangoni is the cousin of a Republican Maryland House of
Delegates member, Nino Mangoni. His mother, Kathleen Zan Nino Mangoni
(27:09):
owns a travel company and his sister, Maria Santamanngoni, is
a respected doctor, a medical resident at ut Southwestern Medical
Center in Dallas after graduating from Vanderbilt Medical School.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Right now, the information we're getting from Altuna is that
the gun appears to be a ghost on may have
been made on a three D printer. The capability of
file with firing a nine millimeters round. Obviously that will
come out during all ballistics testing.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Joining me an all star panel, but now straight out
to Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now co
host of the gold Shields podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Tom, I want to talk about the ghost gun.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
What's your experience with ghost guns and guns made from
three D printers you can make when at home, you
get the parts, you can even get them online.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Hey, here are some photos from our friends at CNN.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
What do you know, Tom, Yeah, they're extremely dangerous and
kind of taking over a criminality today. And the way
it's done, it's really simple. You can buy a three
D printer for anywhere from three hundred to three thousand
dollars and literally create this is what I'm holding in
front of you, the frame of a nine millimeter You
can create this. It's polymer, it's plastic, and this is
(28:19):
what's created in these three D printers. Then you go
and just separately buy all the metal parts that you
need to make the gun functional. Those are done and
bought in kits or separately. And the problem with the
ghost gun is there's no identifying marktings on it. There's
no serial numbers, there's nothing.
Speaker 10 (28:39):
They are clean.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
And then when you go and.
Speaker 9 (28:41):
Buy the parts or the kits, those also have no
identifying numbers on them or serial numbers. So that creates
a very very dangerous weapon that police cannot trace when
a crime is committed.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Now, generally speaking, firearms or manufactured my licensed companies, and
they all have serial numbers displayed on the frame of
the gun.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
That allows cops.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Like you to trace the gun back to the manufacturer,
the firearms dealer, and the original purchaser.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Not true with a ghost gun.
Speaker 9 (29:13):
Tom, No, they're absolutely untraceable. There are no identifying markings
on them whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
So even if you commit the crime with.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
It and discard it, it's still not going to come
back to anything if it's recovered. Much less in this
and since catching him with it, there's no traceable evidence
to it, to where it came from, who manufactured it,
or anything. It's going to be strictly on his statements
of having that gun on him.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You know, Thoma Smith.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I don't know about you, but not out loud to
a jury, of course. But sometimes I wonder who is
going about their day and.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
They suddenly think, Hey, I'm going to go online and
I'm going.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
To get the parts to three D build a ghost
gun with a silencer aka suppressor. Who a has time
to think about building their own gun with a three
D printer thinks about a suppressor aka silencer?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Who does that? Why not just you have to have
a gun? Why don't you just go down to the
gun shop and buy one. I mean, I think I
know the answer, but let me hear you tell it.
Speaker 9 (30:19):
Yeah, it's just it's another aspect of criminality, and it's
dangerous and it's a horrible heartbreak for what's going on
in this country with untraceable weapons.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's just constant.
Speaker 9 (30:31):
And the thing that you just said, Nancy, you can
make this gun and put it together in a couple hours,
by the time is dried, and you're able to break
it apart in.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
A couple of hours.
Speaker 9 (30:42):
If you have the mechanical parts to it already in
your possession, you can.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Get these online and put them together at home.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
How hard is it, Tom, It's not hard at all.
Speaker 9 (30:53):
I mean, look at the Internet today. You can build
anything step by step. All you got to do is
watch a video.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know, the first one was fired back around I
think around twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And look how they have taken over, Tom Smith.
Speaker 9 (31:06):
Oh yeah, you now, it's not even handguns. It's long
guns as well. You can get you know, the receivers
to this made and then by the other parts to
a long gun now in ar or anything like that.
It's taken on a world of its own, which is
really dangerous.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Harmonion Rodriguez joining US chief
US reporter for deallymail dot com.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Harmonia with all.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
The plate, the pre planning, the meticulous uh visiting the scene,
going to a hostel under a fake name, getting a
fake jersey ID, getting a fake passport, wearing a mask everywhere,
his getaway on the bike, going through Central changing clothes
SA almost out of a James Bond movie, except he
(32:06):
kept the ghost gun, he kept the passport, he.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Kept the fake ID.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
He kept about ten thousand dollars which he can tests
cash with him and foreign currency.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Is it true he still had the ghost gun on him.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
That's one of the interesting things about these cases. He
did go through so much preparation, yet he made several
mistakes that got him caught. The first one, of course,
being when he pulled down his mask to flirt with
an employee.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
At the hostel.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
That's how police were able to get his image, which
eventually led to his arrest. And as you mentioned, he
had on him at the.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Time of his arrest.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
All these clues that then, aside from his face, of course,
made it clear to police that this was their guy.
I mean, he kept the same ID that police already
had issued a picture of because the hostel had a
picture of that fake ID from New Jersey. He also
had the same sad to weapon as well as the
silencer in Nancy. So yeah, a lot of preparation, but
(33:06):
there were several things that he overlooked which eventually led
to his demida.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Howy you think about it, Cheryl McColl explain, It's not
hard to break down a gun.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Oh, the photos of the gun are from my friends
at seen in Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
If he could put the gun together, he couldn't think
to break it down and lay various parts of it
and bodies of water or different trash cans along his
bus route.
Speaker 7 (33:26):
He was proud of this gun nancy he made it.
He took the time to get the plans, to get
the equipment, to get all the material. He was never
going to throw that gun away. This is something that
means more to him than the average person could understand.
It is also associated with the biggest thing he's ever
going to do in his life. He's proud of that moment.
(33:50):
If you look again what he did, the time that
he took, stay in for the ten days, building the guns,
taking a bus ride, getting the monopoly money right, the manifesto,
waiting on the victims. This was not something he planned
in a day or week. This is something that meant
(34:10):
a lot to him.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
You know, Jason Oceans, we are now looking toward extradition. Extradition.
I've handled one hundred of them. They take about ten minutes.
It's not about finding guilt or innocence. Extradition it can
be from another state, like from Pennsylvania in this case,
to New York.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
It can be from Mexico or Paris to the US.
If we've got an extradition treaty, but nobody's saying did
you do this? There's no jury trial. It's just very simple.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It's a are you Luigi Mangioni? And TOI are you
the Luigi Mangioni named? And this warrant for your arrest?
Speaker 8 (34:49):
That's all it is, right, It's just you have some
speedy trial issue issues that come into play in terms
of extradition, and from the time that you have, you know,
a suspect in custody, and so that's exactly as you said,
that's in play now. Simple extradition and YPD detectives will
take them.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
I don't know that he'll object.
Speaker 8 (35:10):
It doesn't make any sense to it just prolongs the
process and they bring them.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
To New York. Here's a technical legal term. I don't
know if they taught you this at your law school,
but a lot of times in extradition hearings you run
into a world class a whole and they just won't
agree to extradition then rather languish. In this case, Pennsylvania
CI in Huntington as opposed to facing the music in
(35:38):
New York it's going to happen. All you have to
do is get a fingerprint and go. He is not
telling us, but this is Luigi Mangioni, and he is
the Luigi Maanngioni in this warrant. That's a solid is
this two questions? But sometimes because the defendant is an
a whole technical legal term, they won't agree. So you
(35:59):
just send them back to the zielta. You get the fingerprint,
and you say, enjoy your stale.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Sandwich exactly, And you're sitting County not assigned a prison
cell in a group setting.
Speaker 8 (36:11):
At that point, take the extradition and deal with the
notoriety and at least perhaps you'll have your own cell
instead of being in a group.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
It's about all he's got.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Looking forward to him.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
You are hearing Jason Oshins, who has handled many, many
extradition hearings, but now listening to Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
We're going to have to work that out with the
Manhattan District Attorney's office in Altuna, Pennsylvania. He's going to
be facing gun charges there, and at some point we'll
work out through extradition to bring him back to New
York to face charges here. Working with the Manhattan District
Attorney's Office.
Speaker 15 (36:42):
Luigi Mangoni has been ordered held without bail and does
not enter a plea. In his first court appearance in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania,
Manjoni is escorted to his preliminary arrayment in handcuffs, with
multiple police officers from different departments walking with him, as
he is facing five charges, including one fellony kount of
forgery and one fella he kind of carrying a firearm
without a license. Manjoni is the loan person of interest
(37:05):
in the brazen murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson
in Manhattan last week, but he's not charged with that crime.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I'm sure defense attorney Jason Ohs doesn't want to hear this,
but Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor forensics. He stated,
very plainly, Hey, you know what, I respect the FBI.
You guys have done so much for our country. Let
me just save you some time. I acted alone. He's
perfectly coherent. So, Joe Scott, here's my question. What do
you think will be the single most important evidence in
(37:35):
this case? And I'm guessing it's going to be forensics.
Speaker 10 (37:37):
Yeah, it will be, But I think maybe in a
different area. It's going to be electronic forensics. Let's think
about what we have. He's going to be tracked moving
along now that we know who this guy is, his
movements on the bus line, did he have multiple phones?
Did he have an actual phone that had his name
attached to it as well as a burner phone that
maybe was tracked concurrently with the burner phone. Also, you know,
(38:03):
we haven't talked a lot about Brian Thompson here. What
did this guy do to stalk him? You know, we
go back to this idea that he knew he was
in Manhattan, that he knew he was at this meeting.
Is his history digital history going to have a big
reveal about this relative to him following him day to day?
(38:26):
Did he ever actually make any trips to Minneapolis to
kind of inspect that area. That's going to be a
big part of this is putting all of this together.
I think that, yeah, the ballistics are unique, I think
if you can even attach it, But I think one
of the biggest, biggest pieces of evidence here is all
(38:46):
of this electronic data that's going to come into play.
And also, don't forget this, Nancy, he has a real
understanding and a real love for Ai. We've seen this
throughout throughout his social media post the life that he lived,
his bachelor's and master's degree in computer science. H the
(39:08):
three D ghost gun. You know, he's familiar with that.
That's a big part of new technology and just being
able to generate false IDs, all of that along the
way is going to be a big, big dagger in
the heart for him.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Cheryl McCollum. You know what, let me just give you
an example.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
The ghost gun, fore's sake, is the sing most important
piece of evidence. I tie it with a fingerprint.
Speaker 7 (39:32):
The single most important piece of evidence to me is
we've got him on freaking video commit murder. Everything else
is going to be tied to it. The gun, the clothing, fingerprint,
everything else is coming DNA.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Single, single, single most important piece video and quickly to
Hermania Rodriguez Dailymail dot Com. What happens now, we're just
waiting on the extradition hearing.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So he's supposed to appear in court again in Pennsylvania today,
and now the process of extradition moves along. Charges have
already been filed in New York, so we don't have
to wait for him to be physically in New York
for that. But now that process starts and we are
yet to hear what his defense is going to be.
Is he going to oppose extradition as you mentioned, and
(40:15):
that's what's going to start now the legal process and
all this evidence is going to emerge.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Tonight we honor two American heroes. Number one, the so
called elderly patron having his or her coffee at a McDonald's,
just like every single morning, who took it upon themselves,
whether they knew it or not, to risk their.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Lives to catch an alleged killer.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
We discussed earlier how very often arrests go sideways, much
less the arrest of a violent criminal who's carrying a
loaded ghost gun. And also hero Tyler fry A beat Cup,
a patrol officer in Altoona PD. He knew he was
(41:04):
going to apprehend the health boss assassin as he has
been called. Did he shrink back, No, he strode in
and he made the arrest.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
By the book. If it weren't for.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Those two individuals, Brian Thompson's two boys may never have answers,
but tonight they do. Thank you to that patron at
McDonald's and to patrol Officer Tyler Frye.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
We wait for justice. Two unfold.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, an IVY league grad turned
assassin now charged with murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Breaking a person of interest identified in the United Healthcare
CEO shooting. A man taken into custody in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Straight out to Chief of Detectives NYPD Joe Kinney, A.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Man was taking it to custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania
this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. This
(00:53):
case was brought to a successful conclusion based on the
co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units, including the Intelligence
and counter Terrorism Bureau, of federal partners at the FBI,
the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course, members of
the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Repeat for those.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Of you just joining us, bombshell. An arrest has been
made in the so called health Boss murder of all people,
an IVY League grad turn assassin born with a silver
spoon in his mouth right now in isolation and a
(01:32):
Pennsylvania CI Correctional Institute at Huntingdon.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
What happened?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
How did a guy with everything turn into a cold
blooded assassin? Joining me in All Star Panel Straight Out
to Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Dailymail
dot Com and star of the podcast The Trial of
Didi Hermania.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Tell tell me about the arrest? Right.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So, finally, after a five day manhunt, police found a suspect,
Luigi Mandiano, at a McDonald's in Pennsylvania. Actually, police now
say that he had been in the state, moving back
and forth between Pittsburgh and other places for days. It
appears that an employee at McDonald's called police after someone
(02:24):
recognized him and said he was acting suspicious. Police said
yesterday that when they approached him, he gave the same
fake ID from New Jersey that he had given to
check into the hostel in New York. Now, when police
asked him if he had recently been to New York,
that's when he started shaking and became very nervous, and
(02:44):
that's when he was arrested. And now he's been now
charged with the murder of Brian Thompson.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Take a listen to Tyler Fry.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Now, this is a rookie police officer, was formerly with
the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Listen whatever we got on to.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
Seeing there, we were able to pretty much find where
he was at the in the restaurant, and as soon
as he pulled he was wearing a blue medical mask.
As soon as we pulled that down, or we asked
him to pull it down, we me and my partner
and I recognized him immediately. He didn't even think twice
about it. We knew that was our guy, but he
was very he was very cooperative with us, didn't really
(03:26):
give us too many issues. Once we found out his identity,
we took it from.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
There time or Fry being lauded today in making the arrest.
That's where our friends at eleven Alive. To Dave Matt,
crime online dot Com investigative reporter who's been on the
case from the very beginning. Dave Matt, the big conflicting
reports did to MacDonald's employee, I d him or was
in an elderly patron who identified Maggioni, Luigi Maggioni and
(03:55):
that patron then alerted an employee.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
And the employee he called nine one one. How did
it go down, Mack?
Speaker 6 (04:02):
That is exactly how it happened, Nancy. An elderly couple
looking over noticed him. He was sitting in the very
back of the restaurant. He's got his little blue mask up.
He's sitting there eating breakfast, looking at his laptop. But
an elderly man inscribes him back there and goes to
an employee says, I think that's the guy. So the
employee calls and the police were right there.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now I've heard that he was acting suspiciously. To Cheryl
mccollumy's joining me, forensic expert and director of the Cold
Case Research Institute, star of hit podcast Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Cheryl, you have to have a.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Reason to detain, Okay, not arrest, but to detain.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's an age.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Old similar case us versus Terry.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Okay, to stop someone.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Just to ask for ID so to say he was
acting suspiciously, the guys in the back booth out of
McDonald's on his laptop. I don't know what is suspicious
about that. I'll tell you what I think, Cheryl. I
think they identified him. The patron identify, find him and go, hey,
that's the guy I'm seeing on TV that's shot down.
The CEO and the employee call nine one one. I
(05:08):
don't know what's suspicious about that, but a police officer
has the right, based on intuition, to ask you for ID.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
That is okay.
Speaker 7 (05:18):
They were called there because two people, not one, thought hey,
that looks like the guy, and if he's eating breakfast,
he's having to move that mask a little bit to
take a bite. Once they approach him, law enforcement says, hey,
we were called here. Let me just go ahead and
see your ID. The ID that he gives them is
the same sake New Jersey ID that he gave to
(05:41):
the hostel. At that point, they're like, this is the guy.
We also recognize him from the photograph that NYPD put out,
And I just want to say that is absolutely fantastic
police work that they put his face out so fast
that somebody in Pennsylvania is going to recognize him.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Joining you right now.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
High profile lawyer, defense attorney Jason Oceans, who practices in
this jurisdiction, Jason Oceans, don't you just hate it as
a defense attorney when the cops do it by the book,
there's really nothing for you to complain about.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And can't you just see it. After my dad retired.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
From the railroad, a group of his friends he would
occasionally go, very rarely, but they would get together at McDonald's. Okay,
they're not paying five dollars for a cup of coffee
at Starbucks. And they would be there every day, many
of them military vets like my father. And can't you
just see people that go to McDonald's every day and
(06:43):
they're sitting there going, Oh my stars, that's him.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
And the police did not screw it up. This rookie
formally a sheriff, however, comes.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
In, he's got a suspicion and he does a terry
goold terry stop.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I think you highlighted that way.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
And know as a defense attorney, listen, you're presented the
evidence and the facts as they are.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Nancy, you know, we don't make that up.
Speaker 8 (07:06):
We might highlight things or focus on different aspects to
ensure you.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Know, justice, if you will.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
But it was a great stop.
Speaker 8 (07:14):
And you quite properly note that he was experienced as
a sheriff. So we might have been a rookie to
the Altuona PD, but certainly his instincts kicked in, moved
the mass, secured the scene, made sure that he was
safe and his partner, and you know, kudos to DENYPD
and getting the information out the picture, as it's been
noted that was widespread national news and really just good
(07:37):
old police detective work.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Hey Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective, thirty years
in the city, now star.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Of the Goldshield Show. It's a podcast, Tom Smith, thank
you for being with me. Tom.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
You know how wrong this could have gone, how sideways
it could have all turned. You know, he had the
ghost gun with him, and one of the gun charges
against him, he's got multiple gun charges is a he's
got a suppressor aka silencer. But also he had a
loaded illegal gun. There wasn't just some amo in his backpack.
(08:11):
That gun was loaded.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know how wrong this takedown could have gone.
Speaker 9 (08:16):
They could have gone terribly wrong. The good thing was
they got him kind of by surprise. They got him
in a confined area, and the deputies who showed up
did a masterful job at doing this. They got on
top of him quick before he could do anything or
think about anything. And like I said, being in that
corner helped them a lot and they took advantage of that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
You mean him sitting in a back booth in the corner. Yeah,
there was nowhere for him.
Speaker 9 (08:39):
To go, absolutely, And that's what you're talking about, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You know that's what Smith. This is when I asked
you what could have gone wrong?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I was a rookie ADA Assistant District attorney in inter
city Atlanta and had befriended a cop, a rookie cop
that had testified in a lot of I was putting
up to the grand jury, Randy Shapani, and he made
a routine traffic stop.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Routine traffic stop. That was it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
The guy rolled down, the driver rolled down the window,
took a gun and shot him in the head, just.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Like that for nothing. So you never know when is
going to be your last day all the police force.
Speaker 10 (09:23):
Tom Oh.
Speaker 9 (09:23):
Yeah, I lived with that for thirty years. And that's
what I mean by the great actions of this deputy.
He didn't let him get in upper hand. He took
control of the situation and had him covered, giving him
no way to get out of that area or to
any overt act towards the officers.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
According to a friend of his, his vertebra were about
a quarter to a half inch disaligned. The pain was
excruciating and possibly had pinched a nerve.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Dave Matt Crime Online.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Isn't it true that he confided her friends and his
coshier on the fortieth floor of a Hawaii high rise
that he couldn't have sex because.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Of back pain.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
It's a constant, agonizing feelings that he had all the time,
and talking about not being able to have sex was
just a way of him expressing that this was a
chronic situation with no relief insight. It's like rusting from
the inside.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Nancy Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Joining me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of Body
Bags with Josephcott Morgan. Joe Scott explain the intense pain,
intense pain that comes along with a back ailment like
(10:56):
that and how that factors in to a young man
twenty six years old they can have sex.
Speaker 10 (11:03):
Yeah, it would be horribly frustrating Nancy over this period
of time, and you can see the horrific appearance of this.
The surgery in and of itself is something that he
would have been laid up with for a protracted period
of time. We've got four screws that are being demonstrated here,
and this is a crucial pivot point in the axis
(11:25):
of your body. So he would have been dealing with
chronic pain, Nancy. One of the things I'm wondering about,
and I talked to Bethany about this off air, I
really wonder if he was taking medication for pain management
relative to this, because this is not something that would
have just you know, he would have just healed from
(11:45):
it very easily. We have to understand how far post
surgical he is to try to understand this. Was he
under the influence of any kind of medication and did
he even have a doctor that he was following.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I know where you're going with this. This is like
pouring gas on the fire. For Jason Ocean's defense attorney,
whether he was on pain meds or not does not
change intent to fire the weapon. He is currently charged
with at least three crimes one murder two in New York.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Why not murder one? Murder one in New York? Correct
me if I'm wrong, Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Murder one is usually reserved for a police officer. A
correctional officer that has been killed, torture is used. That's
when we see a murder one. Charged with murder one, Yeah,
you can get life without parole murder two, Jason, Police,
I don't mind if you interrupt.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Murder two is when you intend to do the act.
It's not an accident.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It's not drunk driving, it's not voluntary manslaughter. It's not
a heat of passion. You mean to.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Pull the trigger.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, the sentence from murder II in New York is
fifteen to life. There is no life without parole for
murder two. He's charged with that. He's charged with forging
and that's probably going to be his passport, and he's
charged that is called forged document, either the passport or
(13:20):
the driver's license, and he's yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And he's charged with.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
One count of criminal possession of a weapon including a suppressor,
a silencer, and I believe he's going to be charged
with possession of live AMMO and a gun. Also, he
had a weapon without a serial number on it.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We know it was a ghost gun.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Now And unless I'm wrong on those charges, Jason, do
I have any of that wrong?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Quickly, no great recitation.
Speaker 8 (13:57):
The top count would be a murder two, you know,
murder one referred as you did reference only to law
enforcement officers.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Joe Scott Morgan is talking about isy on pain medication.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Save it for the jury because he had this intense,
intense period of time, an extended period of time where
he planned this, and there is no way he's going
to walk because he says, oh, I took a xenax.
He may have been on pain medication, although we have
not been told he had it with him.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
We know he was exploring.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Alternative methods of healing and pain release, such as magic mushrooms,
but he had the wherewithal to have a gun with
him and a fake passport, according to the NYC Police Commissioner.
Speaker 11 (14:46):
Tish, Responding officers questioned the suspect, who was acting suspiciously
and was carrying multiple fraudulent IDs as well as a
US passport. Upon further investigation, officers recovered a firearm on
his person, as well as a suppressor, both consistent with
the weapon used in the murder. They also recovered clothing,
(15:08):
including a mask consistent with those worn by our wanted
individual Bombshell.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
In the last hours, an arrest goes down of the
so called assassin wanted and the cold blooded execution of
health care boss that ran United health Care raking in
millions of dollars a year. While zany theories circulated on
(15:34):
social media that Thomson had actually hired someone to kill him.
There were illusions that Thomson's wife was somehow involved and.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It set up a hit. All of that is bogus,
All of that is bs.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Instead, what we've got is a twenty six year old
Ivy League grad double major from University of Pennsylvania. Yet
that's him if you look at his social media. He
and his family have traveled all around the world. He
had the best of everything. His grandparents Italian immigrants that
(16:16):
can be traced back straight to Sicily work their fingers
to the bone to build a financial empire, bought country clubs,
golf course, started them home health care, living facilities for seniors.
All that money, all that education, all that privilege, and
(16:36):
what does he do, According to.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Police, guns down United.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Healthcare CEO and boy, according to them, did he have
it all planned out, including the use of a three
D manufacturer at home. Ghost gun, no serial number, no
way to identify it. As a matter of fact, if
(17:03):
you do your research, you will learn that ghost guns
are only trace less than one percent.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Of the time.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
He thought he had it all figured out until an
elderly patron having coffee at McDonald's saw him and raised
the alarm.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
What mortem I listen also recovered was a fraudulent New
Jersey ID, matching the ID our suspect used to check
into his New York City hostel before the shooting incident. Additionally,
officers recovered a handwritten document that speaks to both his
motivation and mindset.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh my stars, another manifesto.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Nothing can make me happier than to have an accused
killer write a manifesto about their feelings.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Joining me.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho an wants to joining us
out of la author of deal Breaker. You can see
her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
We hear.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Veteran trial lawyer Jason Ocean's jumping on something. Joe Scott
Morgan rightly said, could this guy have been on pain meds?
But did you just hear the New York City Police
Commissioner Tish state that he had this very well thought
out manifesto? He had fake IDs. The degree of pre
(18:29):
planning is off the chart. Now, why he decided to
keep his beloved ghost gun with him, which absolutely ties.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Him to the murder, is beyond me.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I guess that Ivy League grad from graduate degree from
University Pennsylvania didn't help anything when it comes to this. Hey,
this photo of the fake ID that he apparently obtained
from New Jersey under the name Mark Rosario. That took
some thinking or from our friends at CNN. So doctor Bethany,
could you help me shoot down what Scott Morgan and
(19:00):
Jason ogens have concocted. I took his annex, and therefore
I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 12 (19:06):
Well, Luigi Mangioni's actions are consistent with multiple pathologies psychopathologies.
First of all, he's extraordinarily entitled to think that he
could solve the whole healthcare crisis, that he's going to
get rid of these parasites. He's anti capitalists. He's also
very that's grandiose, it's entitled to take somebody's life. I
(19:30):
don't believe this whole thing about the relative who was sick.
I think that's just a rationalization for murder. I think
he's been homicidal since his youth. He wears what we
call the mask of sanity.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
On hold on, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
He's brought up a really good point, and I don't
want it to get lost in the sauce.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
People are trying to rationalize it. They can't believe, Oh, what's.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
A millionaire boy like Luigi Manngioni with his Ivy League degree,
Why would he do such a thing? You know what
about it gives it that much thought when it's street crime, like, hey,
book him, he's guilty, But now we're like.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Oh, why did he do it?
Speaker 12 (20:09):
I think, actually there's a clear motive, and to me,
he has this type. He would be consistent with the
type of psychopathology where the person attacks the very institutions
of people who are.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Trying to help them.
Speaker 12 (20:22):
Okay, so think of the person in a restaurant who
screams at the waiter who's trying to do everything for them.
They just think they can't get enough service, these babylike people.
So he's anti capitalist, but he comes from a very
wealthy family from whom he has benefite.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
How can you be anti capitalist when you were at
the trough of capitalism exactly eating more than anybody else
you're a pig.
Speaker 12 (20:48):
Yeah, well, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. In other words,
people who want more and more and more and never
works out well for them. And also, you know he
has this Ivy League education. He's also anti medicine, anti insurance.
I bet he build I bet insurance covered for that
very extensive procedure that he had.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So this again is.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
Where he's attacking the institutions that are there to help him.
So some people's pathology is such that they always think
things are being done to them rather than for them.
And when these people go to the hospital, they think
the doctors, the nurses, everybody's you know, torturing them, not
giving them what they need, and they have a difficult
time putting themselves in the doctor's shoes, the fact that
(21:33):
the doctor is there to help them. In terms of medication, Nancy,
the only role I could see is that opioids, and
most surely he has prescribed those activate the MEW receptors
in the brain, and that those are the same receptors
that are activated when our mothers hold us as children.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So given that, Ethne, why just a moment plays We're
showing photos of him on the each in Hawaii. Okay,
I don't know who can I work every day, my
husband works every day, My twins go to school every day,
and they work in the summer. Who has time to
take this much time off in Hawaii and live in
(22:18):
a luxury high rise.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
How does that happen? Yet, you're anti capitalist. That doesn't
make sense to me. Two and two is not equally four.
Speaker 12 (22:27):
No, it doesn't equal four unless you think of somebody
who is extremely disturbed and they are resentful and envious
of the people who are.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Giving something to them. Think of babies.
Speaker 12 (22:37):
The minute the mother leaves the room, the baby screams
and cries and wants the mother even more. And that's
appropriate for infancy. But the baby doesn't really care or
is not able to grasp that the mother might be
tired or depressed or whatever, has other siblings to take
care of. And so if someone gets stuck in that
(22:57):
developmental phase, nothing that they're given is enough, and they
don't care about anybody around them.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
They scream and cry for whatever they want.
Speaker 13 (23:06):
In high school, he is the valedictorian of the Gilman
School for Boys, a private school in Baltimore. As an
Ivy League graduate of the University of Pennsylvania. He is
a tech whiz, but somewhere along the way, Luigi Mangioni
developed a grudge against the medical community, either due to
how a sick relative is treated or maybe his own treatment.
An X ray photo on his ex account shows four
(23:27):
pins in a spine, and he has five books involving
chronic back pain on his reading list on his Goodreads account.
Speaker 14 (23:32):
So the class of twenty sixteen that only explored new
frontiers but also maintained Gilman's most important traditions. I think
this combination of preservation and exploration is what Gilman is
all about. Gilman maintains his classic core values by cultivating minds, body,
and spirit and its students, but also champions and environment
(23:53):
of acceptance and diversity while selling in his technological endeavors.
Our imagination, drawsmir ins, and our courage largely depends when
your encouragement in the classroom, on the fields, and on
the stage. So parents and faculty, thank you for all
you have done for us today is as much an
(24:13):
achievement for you as it is for us.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
That is from the Gilman School, which is a private
college preparatory school for boys only costs.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
I think over forty grand a year.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I guarantee you he wasn't bussing tables to pay that
tuition bill.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Cheryl McCollum joining me, forensic expert and street cup.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So often when we prosecute and investigate crimes, we see
the defendant and this is not an excuse at all,
comes from low income, a low education or no education,
no job, and.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
They end up committing crimes. That's not an excuse.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
There is no justification for a violent crime, period. But
rarely do you see an ivy league grad with multi
millionaire family members commit a crime like this, And even
more rare, it's when the first crime, now true, he
(25:20):
had a Hawaii violation of going into some part of
a public park that was closed off to the public.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
You rarely see someone go from zero to one twenty
mph a premeditated murder. So you got the silver spoon
and you got the zero to one twenty mph going
on here.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
Well, let's talk about Wales. You got you got intelligence
versus streets marts, which he doesn't have any which is
the reason he was caught. If you look and you
think of back pain, imagine severe back pain. But you're
hunched over, right in a manifesto. You're hunched over building
a ghost gun. You're hunched over white known bullets. You
(26:02):
decide to take a bus which is gonna take you
four times as long as you if you drove yourself,
and then you're gonna hop on a freaking bicycle. It
doesn't look like back pain to me. It looks like
his motive is clearly in his mind. Only in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Well true, he may have been driven to distraction by
the back pain, we.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Know that, But murder is not Murder is not the answer.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
We were listening to Luigi Mangioni as the valedictorian at
the Gilman School, speaking about all the values that the
Gilman School maintains.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
This guy came from so much privileged. Listen.
Speaker 15 (26:49):
The suspected killer of United Health CEO Brian Thompson comes
from a wealthy, educated, connected Maryland family. His grandfather grew
up poor as a first generation American who built a
real estate business that includes country clubs and media investments.
Mangoni is the cousin of a Republican Maryland House of
Delegates member, Nino Mangoni. His mother, Kathleen Zan Nino Mangoni
(27:09):
owns a travel company and his sister, Maria Santamanngoni, is
a respected doctor, a medical resident at ut Southwestern Medical
Center in Dallas after graduating from Vanderbilt Medical School.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Right now, the information we're getting from Altuna is that
the gun appears to be a ghost on may have
been made on a three D printer. The capability of
file with firing a nine millimeters round. Obviously that will
come out during all ballistics testing.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Joining me an all star panel, but now straight out
to Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now co
host of the gold Shields podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Tom, I want to talk about the ghost gun.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
What's your experience with ghost guns and guns made from
three D printers you can make when at home, you
get the parts, you can even get them online.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Hey, here are some photos from our friends at CNN.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
What do you know, Tom, Yeah, they're extremely dangerous and
kind of taking over a criminality today. And the way
it's done, it's really simple. You can buy a three
D printer for anywhere from three hundred to three thousand
dollars and literally create this is what I'm holding in
front of you, the frame of a nine millimeter You
can create this. It's polymer, it's plastic, and this is
(28:19):
what's created in these three D printers. Then you go
and just separately buy all the metal parts that you
need to make the gun functional. Those are done and
bought in kits or separately. And the problem with the
ghost gun is there's no identifying marktings on it. There's
no serial numbers, there's nothing.
Speaker 10 (28:39):
They are clean.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
And then when you go and.
Speaker 9 (28:41):
Buy the parts or the kits, those also have no
identifying numbers on them or serial numbers. So that creates
a very very dangerous weapon that police cannot trace when
a crime is committed.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Now, generally speaking, firearms or manufactured my licensed companies, and
they all have serial numbers displayed on the frame of
the gun.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
That allows cops.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Like you to trace the gun back to the manufacturer,
the firearms dealer, and the original purchaser.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Not true with a ghost gun.
Speaker 9 (29:13):
Tom, No, they're absolutely untraceable. There are no identifying markings
on them whatsoever.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
So even if you commit the crime with.
Speaker 9 (29:22):
It and discard it, it's still not going to come
back to anything if it's recovered. Much less in this
and since catching him with it, there's no traceable evidence
to it, to where it came from, who manufactured it,
or anything. It's going to be strictly on his statements
of having that gun on him.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
You know, Thoma Smith.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I don't know about you, but not out loud to
a jury, of course. But sometimes I wonder who is
going about their day and.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
They suddenly think, Hey, I'm going to go online and
I'm going.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
To get the parts to three D build a ghost
gun with a silencer aka suppressor. Who a has time
to think about building their own gun with a three
D printer thinks about a suppressor aka silencer?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Who does that? Why not just you have to have
a gun? Why don't you just go down to the
gun shop and buy one. I mean, I think I
know the answer, but let me hear you tell it.
Speaker 9 (30:19):
Yeah, it's just it's another aspect of criminality, and it's
dangerous and it's a horrible heartbreak for what's going on
in this country with untraceable weapons.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's just constant.
Speaker 9 (30:31):
And the thing that you just said, Nancy, you can
make this gun and put it together in a couple hours,
by the time is dried, and you're able to break
it apart in.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
A couple of hours.
Speaker 9 (30:42):
If you have the mechanical parts to it already in
your possession, you can.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Get these online and put them together at home.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
How hard is it, Tom, It's not hard at all.
Speaker 9 (30:53):
I mean, look at the Internet today. You can build
anything step by step. All you got to do is
watch a video.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You know, the first one was fired back around I
think around twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
And look how they have taken over, Tom Smith.
Speaker 9 (31:06):
Oh yeah, you now, it's not even handguns. It's long
guns as well. You can get you know, the receivers
to this made and then by the other parts to
a long gun now in ar or anything like that.
It's taken on a world of its own, which is
really dangerous.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Harmonion Rodriguez joining US chief
US reporter for deallymail dot com.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Harmonia with all.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
The plate, the pre planning, the meticulous uh visiting the scene,
going to a hostel under a fake name, getting a
fake jersey ID, getting a fake passport, wearing a mask everywhere,
his getaway on the bike, going through Central changing clothes
SA almost out of a James Bond movie, except he
(32:06):
kept the ghost gun, he kept the passport, he.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Kept the fake ID.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
He kept about ten thousand dollars which he can tests
cash with him and foreign currency.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Is it true he still had the ghost gun on him.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
That's one of the interesting things about these cases. He
did go through so much preparation, yet he made several
mistakes that got him caught. The first one, of course,
being when he pulled down his mask to flirt with
an employee.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
At the hostel.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
That's how police were able to get his image, which
eventually led to his arrest. And as you mentioned, he
had on him at the.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Time of his arrest.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
All these clues that then, aside from his face, of course,
made it clear to police that this was their guy.
I mean, he kept the same ID that police already
had issued a picture of because the hostel had a
picture of that fake ID from New Jersey. He also
had the same sad to weapon as well as the
silencer in Nancy. So yeah, a lot of preparation, but
(33:06):
there were several things that he overlooked which eventually led
to his demida.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Howy you think about it, Cheryl McColl explain, It's not
hard to break down a gun.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Oh, the photos of the gun are from my friends
at seen in Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
If he could put the gun together, he couldn't think
to break it down and lay various parts of it
and bodies of water or different trash cans along his
bus route.
Speaker 7 (33:26):
He was proud of this gun nancy he made it.
He took the time to get the plans, to get
the equipment, to get all the material. He was never
going to throw that gun away. This is something that
means more to him than the average person could understand.
It is also associated with the biggest thing he's ever
going to do in his life. He's proud of that moment.
(33:50):
If you look again what he did, the time that
he took, stay in for the ten days, building the guns,
taking a bus ride, getting the monopoly money right, the manifesto,
waiting on the victims. This was not something he planned
in a day or week. This is something that meant
(34:10):
a lot to him.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
You know, Jason Oceans, we are now looking toward extradition. Extradition.
I've handled one hundred of them. They take about ten minutes.
It's not about finding guilt or innocence. Extradition it can
be from another state, like from Pennsylvania in this case,
to New York.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
It can be from Mexico or Paris to the US.
If we've got an extradition treaty, but nobody's saying did
you do this? There's no jury trial. It's just very simple.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
It's a are you Luigi Mangioni? And TOI are you
the Luigi Mangioni named? And this warrant for your arrest?
Speaker 8 (34:49):
That's all it is, right, It's just you have some
speedy trial issue issues that come into play in terms
of extradition, and from the time that you have, you know,
a suspect in custody, and so that's exactly as you said,
that's in play now. Simple extradition and YPD detectives will
take them.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
I don't know that he'll object.
Speaker 8 (35:10):
It doesn't make any sense to it just prolongs the
process and they bring them.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
To New York. Here's a technical legal term. I don't
know if they taught you this at your law school,
but a lot of times in extradition hearings you run
into a world class a whole and they just won't
agree to extradition then rather languish. In this case, Pennsylvania
CI in Huntington as opposed to facing the music in
(35:38):
New York it's going to happen. All you have to
do is get a fingerprint and go. He is not
telling us, but this is Luigi Mangioni, and he is
the Luigi Maanngioni in this warrant. That's a solid is
this two questions? But sometimes because the defendant is an
a whole technical legal term, they won't agree. So you
(35:59):
just send them back to the zielta. You get the fingerprint,
and you say, enjoy your stale.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Sandwich exactly, And you're sitting County not assigned a prison
cell in a group setting.
Speaker 8 (36:11):
At that point, take the extradition and deal with the
notoriety and at least perhaps you'll have your own cell
instead of being in a group.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
It's about all he's got.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Looking forward to him.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
You are hearing Jason Oshins, who has handled many, many
extradition hearings, but now listening to Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
We're going to have to work that out with the
Manhattan District Attorney's office in Altuna, Pennsylvania. He's going to
be facing gun charges there, and at some point we'll
work out through extradition to bring him back to New
York to face charges here. Working with the Manhattan District
Attorney's Office.
Speaker 15 (36:42):
Luigi Mangoni has been ordered held without bail and does
not enter a plea. In his first court appearance in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania,
Manjoni is escorted to his preliminary arrayment in handcuffs, with
multiple police officers from different departments walking with him, as
he is facing five charges, including one fellony kount of
forgery and one fella he kind of carrying a firearm
without a license. Manjoni is the loan person of interest
(37:05):
in the brazen murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson
in Manhattan last week, but he's not charged with that crime.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I'm sure defense attorney Jason Ohs doesn't want to hear this,
but Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor forensics. He stated,
very plainly, Hey, you know what, I respect the FBI.
You guys have done so much for our country. Let
me just save you some time. I acted alone. He's
perfectly coherent. So, Joe Scott, here's my question. What do
you think will be the single most important evidence in
(37:35):
this case? And I'm guessing it's going to be forensics.
Speaker 10 (37:37):
Yeah, it will be, But I think maybe in a
different area. It's going to be electronic forensics. Let's think
about what we have. He's going to be tracked moving
along now that we know who this guy is, his
movements on the bus line, did he have multiple phones?
Did he have an actual phone that had his name
attached to it as well as a burner phone that
maybe was tracked concurrently with the burner phone. Also, you know,
(38:03):
we haven't talked a lot about Brian Thompson here. What
did this guy do to stalk him? You know, we
go back to this idea that he knew he was
in Manhattan, that he knew he was at this meeting.
Is his history digital history going to have a big
reveal about this relative to him following him day to day?
(38:26):
Did he ever actually make any trips to Minneapolis to
kind of inspect that area. That's going to be a
big part of this is putting all of this together.
I think that, yeah, the ballistics are unique, I think
if you can even attach it, But I think one
of the biggest, biggest pieces of evidence here is all
(38:46):
of this electronic data that's going to come into play.
And also, don't forget this, Nancy, he has a real
understanding and a real love for Ai. We've seen this
throughout throughout his social media post the life that he lived,
his bachelor's and master's degree in computer science. H the
(39:08):
three D ghost gun. You know, he's familiar with that.
That's a big part of new technology and just being
able to generate false IDs, all of that along the
way is going to be a big, big dagger in
the heart for him.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Cheryl McCollum. You know what, let me just give you
an example.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
The ghost gun, fore's sake, is the sing most important
piece of evidence. I tie it with a fingerprint.
Speaker 7 (39:32):
The single most important piece of evidence to me is
we've got him on freaking video commit murder. Everything else
is going to be tied to it. The gun, the clothing, fingerprint,
everything else is coming DNA.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Single, single, single most important piece video and quickly to
Hermania Rodriguez Dailymail dot Com. What happens now, we're just
waiting on the extradition hearing.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So he's supposed to appear in court again in Pennsylvania today,
and now the process of extradition moves along. Charges have
already been filed in New York, so we don't have
to wait for him to be physically in New York
for that. But now that process starts and we are
yet to hear what his defense is going to be.
Is he going to oppose extradition as you mentioned, and
(40:15):
that's what's going to start now the legal process and
all this evidence is going to emerge.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Tonight we honor two American heroes. Number one, the so
called elderly patron having his or her coffee at a McDonald's,
just like every single morning, who took it upon themselves,
whether they knew it or not, to risk their.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Lives to catch an alleged killer.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
We discussed earlier how very often arrests go sideways, much
less the arrest of a violent criminal who's carrying a
loaded ghost gun. And also hero Tyler fry A beat Cup,
a patrol officer in Altoona PD. He knew he was
(41:04):
going to apprehend the health boss assassin as he has
been called. Did he shrink back, No, he strode in
and he made the arrest.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
By the book. If it weren't for.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Those two individuals, Brian Thompson's two boys may never have answers,
but tonight they do. Thank you to that patron at
McDonald's and to patrol Officer Tyler Frye.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
We wait for justice. Two unfold.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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