November 12, 2024 • 42 mins
Elisa Lam embarks on a solo trip to California.
Despite her parents' protests, she reassures them with a promise to check in daily by phone. She posts on her Tumblr blog, "I have arrived in LaLa Land." She checks into the Cecil Hotel in downtown Los Angeles, planning to stay in her shared hostel-style suite for four days and three nights.
Elisa is scheduled to check out of the Cecil Hotel on January 31, but she never does. Her parents grow concerned when Elisa misses her promised daily check-ins. They contact the LAPD, and a search begins for the young university student. Dogs search her room and the hotel rooftop, but there is no sign of Elisa.
Two weeks pass with no trace of Elisa Lam. The LAPD releases the last known video footage of her, hoping it will provide new leads. The video shows Elisa pressing multiple elevator buttons, gesturing to someone off-camera, and repeatedly peering down the hallway before retreating into a corner of the elevator.
Nineteen days after Elisa Lam’s disappearance, law enforcement still has not found her. Meanwhile, guests at the Cecil Hotel report low water pressure and an unusual, dark taste in the water, which has taken on a muddy, blackish color. A maintenance worker checks the rooftop water tanks and finds one of the four 1,000-gallon tanks open, with Elisa’s body floating face-up inside.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Kelly Hyman – Trial & Civil Attorney (Miami, FL); TV Legal Analyst; Author: “Build Back Better;” X: @kellyhyman1, TikTok: @kelly.hyman, Instagram: @Kelly_Hyman1
- Matthew Mangino – Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States;” X: @MatthewTMangino
- Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private PracticeRobert Crispin – Private Investigator, Former Federal Task Force Officer for United States Department of Justice, DEA and Miami Field Division, Former Homicide and Crimes Against Children Investigator, “Crispin Special Investigations” CrispinInvestigations.com, Facebook: Crispin Special Investigations, Inc
- Mike McCormick – Owner and Lead Investigator of M.C.M. Investigations (Los Angeles); Former LAPD Detective for over 25 years (worked Gangs for 5 years); Facebook: MCM Investigations
- Dr. Michelle DuPre – Forensic Pathologist and former Medical Examiner, Author: “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” & “Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide”, Ret. Police Detective Lexington County Sheriff’s Department
- Hadley Meares - Journalist, Historian, Writer, Tour Guide. Urban Traveler,
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a carror. Hotel guests say
we tasted blood in the water at the Cecil Hotel
just before Elisa's body found floating in the hotel water tank.
(00:22):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Elisa Lamb is a twenty one year old university student
from British Columbia on a solo trip to California, starting
in San Diego and ending in Santa Cruz. She's made
it to the City of Stars, writing in her blog,
I have arrived in Lalla Land.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
What do you think people imagine when they picture the
Cecil Hotel?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Is there a room here that maybe somebody hasn't died in.
I never got used to.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
That, never got used to that.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Bro out.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's history.
Speaker 6 (01:05):
The hotel Cecil has always had a dark persona.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
People call it hotel death.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
This was a place where sterio killers let.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
Their hair down, like Richard Ramirez who had come back covered.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
In blood and no one's got a problem with them.
And that was from our friends over at Netflix. It's
crime scene, the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel. But let
me assure everyone, this is no ghost story. There is
nothing supernatural about Alyssa's death. There is a logical conclusion
(01:41):
for this beautiful young girl's death, and I intend to
find it. I'm not blaming it on a haunting or
some phantom. She was killed, but how nonetheless, listen to this.
Speaker 7 (01:59):
A hotel a notorious past is the site of another
bizarre case.
Speaker 8 (02:04):
Elisia Lamb from Vancouver, Canada is missing.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
The big unanswered question is where is she?
Speaker 9 (02:12):
The last footage that we have over was inside the elevator.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's where the case starts to go askew, she.
Speaker 10 (02:20):
Kept looking outside the door.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Why is the elevator not going anywhere?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Is someone keeping her here?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Her hand movements are very strange in.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Your body, like she's conjuring a spirit.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It makes people wonder is there something evil going on here? Well,
that's all well and good for Netflix to say. In Crime,
seeing the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel, it looks to
me like she's hiding from someone, someone very much alive
in that elevator. The last known surveillance video of Elisa.
What happened to Elisa joining me in an All Star panel
(02:53):
to make sense of what we know right now? But
to Kelly Hyman joining US veteran try a lawyer, TV
legal analyst, and host of Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood.
Why is it, Kelly, that people in that jurisdiction would
rather believe in a supernatural haunting than a plane and
(03:16):
simple murder.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
People want to figure out why something happened. This case
has so many layers to it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Here.
Speaker 7 (03:23):
We have this hotel where death occurs in the hotel.
This young beautiful girl dies in the hotel, is found
in the water tank, and still no one knows how
she was put there, how she was killed. It's important
to know, Nancy, as you know that there is no
statute limitations on murder, so whoever did this should be
(03:47):
accountable for their actions. But people want to try and
figure out what happened. Why did she die? If someone
didn't kill her, what exactly occurred?
Speaker 8 (03:56):
You know?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
To Karen started following up on what trial lawyer Kelly
Hyman is saying. Karen Stark is with US renowned as psychologist,
TV radio trauma expert. You can find her at Karensdark
dot com. That's Karen with a C if you're looking
for her online. Karen, why do people want to believe
there was a supernatural haunting, that a phantom has something
(04:16):
to do with this girl's death. It didn't. Don't you
jump on the bandwagon and tune up about a ghost.
Did you see her in that elevator. She looks like
she's hiding from someone. Why does everyone want to assume
it's a ghost.
Speaker 11 (04:30):
Well, because that's much more exciting, Nancy, the idea that
this is a hotel that's haunted and has phantoms, and
you know, people really enjoy looking at the supernatural, or
the idea that there are forces we don't know about.
And yet what you said is absolutely true. You see
her being terrified, raising her hands. It does seem like
(04:54):
someone is after her. It has nothing to do with
the ghost. It has much more to do with who
is there? Who don't we know about? How in the
world did this happen?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
There you seeing her hiding back in the corner of
the elevator. That last known surveillance video off her at
the beginning it I couldn't tell she punching a floor
or some other button, looking both ways at one point
gesticulating what happened to this twenty two year old girl?
As a matter of fact, who is she?
Speaker 12 (05:26):
Listen A Lisa Lamb is a twenty one year old
student at the University of British Columbia. She's an avid
blogger active on the popular social site Tumbler under the
pen name Nouvelle Nouveau. There she posts a mix of
chic and trending fashion photos, quotes strewn with bits and
pieces of her personal life, including her upcoming solo trip
to California and she.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Was excited about the trip. Listen.
Speaker 9 (05:49):
Lisa Lamb embarks on a solo trip to California. Despite
her parents' protest, she reassures them with the promise of
daily check ins by phone. Her first stop is the
San Diego Zoo. Before arriving in La on January twenty sixth,
she posts on her Tumblr blog, I have arrived in
Lalla lad. She checks into the Cecil Hotel in downtown
(06:10):
LA in an area known as skid Row, with the
plan to stay in her shared hostile style suite for
a total of four days and three nights.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Joining me in addition to Hadley Mere's investigative journalist Mike
McCormick is with US, owner and lead investigator of MCM Investigations,
FORMERLAPD Los Angeles Police department over twenty five years, and
you can find an mcminvestigations dot com. While Mike, having
(06:41):
been in LA for twenty five years, I guess you've
seen it all, or have you? I don't get why
people want to blame her death on a ghost. To
get up into that water tank, you had to go
through all sorts of security hoops and she would not
have had those codes and the wherewithal to do that.
(07:04):
But let me ask you this, Mike McCormick, why is
it in your neck of the woods people would rather
believe in a supernatural phantom as opposed to a cold
blooded killer.
Speaker 13 (07:17):
That very just muddies the waters. I believe she was
she was murdered. I believe she was picking up to
the water tank and dumped into it. My question would be,
why wasn't these water tanks locked down? They're not only
(07:42):
had access for her to be thrown in there, but
somebody could go up there any time and you know,
contaminate the water with poison. So this whole scenario does
not make sense.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And another thing to Mike McCormick, veteran investigator, former LAPD.
She embarks on a solo trip to California, now. One
of the first things she did, and I can remember, Mike,
when we were living in La for Dancing with the Stars.
We lived there nearly a year. The children were about
(08:14):
three years old. One of the first things we did
was take the train from La to San Diego to
see the famed San Diego Zoo, and it was amazing.
My point is, this does not sound like a girl
that is entertaining thoughts of death in any way. She
(08:35):
doesn't seem afraid for her life. She certainly was not suicidal.
She's at the San Diego Zoo posting about it.
Speaker 13 (08:44):
No, she doesn't seem like she was depressed at all.
She was having appeared to be having a good time.
Other than that video in the elevator, she's scared of something.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You're absolutely right there at the so called horror hotel,
the Cecil. So what do we know happens? Next two
Hadley Meres joining us investigative journalist in this jurisdiction, La
HATTLEI thanks so much for being with us. Let me
ask you, why do people want very much to believe
(09:20):
in a haunting at the Cecil hotel as being responsible
for this girl's death. That's total bs technical, legal term.
Speaker 14 (09:28):
Yes. Well, I think the reason a lot of people
want to believe in this kind of ghostly thing happening
to Alisa, this great mystery, is because of the history
of the Cecil Hotel. A lot of my work delves
into the history and law of lesser known places in
Los Angeles, and in all of my years of journalism
in LA I have never come across the place with
(09:49):
more documented.
Speaker 15 (09:51):
Suicides, deaths, infamous murders. We had two serial killers, and
so this is a place that has been notorious for decades.
Way before this tragedy with Alisa Lamb. I mean, residents
would kind of morbidly jokingly call it the suicide. So
it's always had this very bad reputation. Then you have
(10:13):
this beautiful, vibrant young girl disappear. The police released this
mysterious video that does look strange, and you're off to
the races in internet culture of today.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And that's seemed to take over the entire investigation crime
stories with Nancy Grace, when did we first realize something
was wrong?
Speaker 9 (10:44):
Listen, Alisa Lamb is supposed to end her stay at
the Cecil Hotel on January thirty first, but she never
makes it to check out. Her parents begin to worry
as Alisa has failed to uphold her promise of daily
check ins that contact the LAPD, and a search ensues
for the young university student. Dogs search her room and
(11:06):
the hotel rooftop, but Alisa is nowhere to be found.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
You know, right there, Hedley Mere is joining us investigated
journalists in la I'm very curious dogs searched the roof.
Now I know that dogs hit on the fire escape area,
So that leads me to believe the dogs led police
to the roof. Did they not see those water tanks
(11:32):
up there?
Speaker 14 (11:33):
They did see the water tanks, and they do say
that they very much regret not checking the water tanks
because they did in fact search the roof. So you know,
it's tragic because she ends up being in there for
much longer than she could have if the police had
gone up to check the water tanks.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Now, the police dogs picked up on her scent at
a window leading to a fire escape, not all the
fire escape itself. So who dragged her body to the
roof and put her in one of these cisterns? Look
(12:11):
At how difficult it is to get in and out
of the cistern. Could she have done that on her own.
They've got a whole fleet of workers trying to look
in there. So other than the reputation of the cecil,
nothing suggests she took her own life. What happened to Elisa?
(12:37):
As a matter of fact, one of the last people
to see her alive and speak to her says she
was very much vibrant, alive, excited and looking forward. I
want you to hear what she says.
Speaker 16 (12:53):
We would see hundreds, if not thousands of people a day,
and the fact that she was so gregarious made it
easy for me to remember her and remember what our
interaction was like. She was asking a lot about like
the weight of what she had, and whether or not
she would need to ship things home or if she
(13:14):
could still like put it all in her suitcase. I
could not at this point tell you any of the
titles that she purchased. I do remember her buying a lot.
It was like, you know, a banker's.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Box worth of books and records. That's really important sound
and that comes from our friends at Fox eleven in La.
It's Katie Orphan, a bookstore owner, and to you, Karen Start,
renowned psychologist. It's classic, classic evidence that this young woman
(13:48):
just twenty two, was not planning to take her own life.
She went and bought out the bookstore. She bought so
many books that she was trying to figure out how
to ship them home, whether I would all fit in
her suitcase. Did you hear that? And what does it
tell you Karen's talk?
Speaker 11 (14:04):
It tells me that she was enjoying her life. These
books were supposed to be presents for her family. She
was looking forward to the trip. And Nancy, there are
alarms that go off if you try to get into
those water tanks and you're on the roof, So it
seems to me somebody must have known how to shut
off the alarms, because how would she know not one
(14:30):
more than one and then get herself up there and
lift the lid. That just seems inconceivable. She's a small girl,
She's twenty one years old. So I also want to
add that people love, as your question was before ghost stories,
because if you think about sitting around a campsite and
(14:50):
kids and they are exciting, they make you have adrenaline,
just like quantit houses. So they don't pay attention to
the facts here, which is how in the w the
world could she have done this.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Joining me is renowned and esteemed medical examiner. She shot
to the forefront of the nation's consciousness during the Alex
Murdog double murder trial. Joining me is doctor Michelle Dupree,
forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and looky for Me former detective
with the Lexington County Sheriff's Department. She is the author
(15:23):
of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdog Dynasty the rest
of the story, but for my purposes. She is the
author of the Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Michelle Dupree,
thank you for being with us. Another fact that really
sticks out in my mind, doctor Michelle, is that she
(15:43):
was found naked. And you and I have discussed many,
many times the assessment and method of homicide and suicide.
It is extremely rare, I would venture to say, almost
nonexistent for a female to commit suicide without any clothes.
(16:04):
On why I'm not a shrink, I don't know, but
I do know from a case I tried, Doctor Michelle Duprie,
A case I tried. I'll never forget it. The district
attorney called me over the loud speaker, Nancy, come to
my office. I literally ran to mister Slayton's office, and
he wanted me to investigate and possibly prosecute a suicide.
(16:30):
It had been built a suicide. It wasn't a suicide,
doctor Duprie. And the moment I walked into the victim's
home and found out she was lying in the bed
buck naked with a gunshot went to the head. I'm like, no,
that's not right. Help me out, doctor Duprie. I know
it sounds anecdotal, but statistics verify what I'm saying. A
(16:52):
woman does not commit suicide naked.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Nancy, You're absolutely right, And the other things don't add
up either, everything that the other guests have said. You know,
how did she get into the water tank, how did
she even get upstairs, how did she get past the codes?
All of that, you know, And as you know, drowning
is a diagnosis of exclusion. And we don't really know
why or how she died as far as I know.
But she couldn't have done this by herself. Nothing, nothing
(17:17):
indicates that this was a person with suicidal ideation.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Elisa Lamb has promised her parents a daily check in
by phone while on her solo trip to the Golden State.
So the Lambs begin to worry when on January thirty first,
Elisa fails to call either of them.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
What do you think people imagine when they picture the
Cecil Hotel?
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Is there a room here that maybe somebody hasn't died in.
I never got used to that, never got used to.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
That browt It's history. The hotel Cecil has always had
a dark persona.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
People call it death.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
This was a place where serial killers let.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
Their hair down, like Richard Ramirez who had come back
covered in blood.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And no one's got a problem with them. As much
as our friends at Netflix would like to advance the
theory that this is a super natural phenomena, it's not.
She was killed. Elisa was killed. That was from our
friends at Netflix. Crime scene, the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel.
(18:31):
No supernatural phantom had a hand and the death of
this young girl. But I want to take a look
at the surveillance video that catches her just before she's killed.
Speaker 17 (18:43):
The surveillance video released by the LAPD shows a Lisa
Lamb entering the hotel elevator and crouching to press several buttons.
She then backs into a corner, waiting before suddenly darting
out of the elevator, swiveling her head urgently from side
to side. At one point, she steps completely out of
the elevator, movie out of view for some time, before
returning and repeatedly pressing the elevator buttons. She steps out again,
(19:06):
gesturing strangely to an unseen individual outside the elevator to
her right, moving her arm in circles and flexing her
wrists and fingers. The elevator door remains open this entire time. Finally,
Alisa slides out of view into the hallway and the
elevator door closes, before opening and closing two more times,
(19:26):
with Alisa nowhere to be seen.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Kelly Himan joining US veteran trial lawyer, TV legal analyst
and host ofb Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood. Kelly,
of course, under the law, when you argue to a jury,
you are not allowed to ask any juror to put
themselves in the shoes of the victim. However, you can
(19:51):
say things like watch her on this elevator. She's clearly
afraid of somebody. Don't even say some thing. Okay, I
know your podcast is wants to put up a crime
in Hollywood, but I am not buying into the la
theory that a ghost did this. That said, you don't
have to passage. You are to say is this how
(20:14):
you would behave You can say things like is that normal?
What do you think she's feeling right now? What do
you think she's hiding from? Look at her. That's how
you could argue that to a jury and not get
an objection that would be sustained in front of the jury.
You don't want that. You do not want the other
(20:35):
size objections to be sustained. No, So you don't ever
want to do anything evidentiarily wrong in front of a jury.
But she's clearly Kelly afraid of something.
Speaker 7 (20:47):
What was her state of mind?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Nancy?
Speaker 7 (20:50):
That is definitely key.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So when we.
Speaker 7 (20:52):
Look at this video, we see her there and then
all of a sudden she's hiding behind like to hide
herself so she can't be seen. And then she is
getting out of the elevator. She's peeking out looking to
see someone. She's crouching down as well and making all
types of hand gestures, and then gets back in the elevation,
(21:13):
looks around to see who's there. This looks like a
woman who is afraid of whoever is about to come
in the elevator.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Karen starting joining me as a psychologist. Karen, I want
to ask you a very specific question. For someone to
have visual hallucination is rare, but even more rare, I
believe it's auditory hearing, some sort of hallucination. You heard
the bookstore owner describing her just before her death. She
(21:46):
was perfectly in control of her faculties and trying to
figure out how she could get all of these books
shipped home, very happy and very excited. I find that
very hard to reconcile with her possibly having auditory or
visual hallucinations. I don't think she did. I mean, you
have to look at the facts, and the facts are
(22:08):
a couple hours before her death, she was perfectly saying,
and she.
Speaker 11 (22:12):
Was perfectly saying throughout the trip and having a great time.
Think about this, as I'm watching that elevator doesn't move.
What's going on that the elevator stays open and it
looks like she's desperately trying to get it to close
go to a different floor. I don't know about an
elevator that could stay that way unless somebody is really
(22:33):
controlling the elevator and keeping it open. So something is
really wrong with all of this, including as I said before,
the fact that the alarms were intriggered when supposedly she
put herself on the roof. I also want to address
what you said earlier about women not killing themselves when
they're nude, because the truth is women care about their
(22:55):
parents and so in fact, they even put on makeup
sometimes because they want to look good. They do think
about that. Statistically, we know it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Even though her appearans were distraught, no one could find
Alissa until guests began complaining. At the Cecil Hotel.
Speaker 10 (23:15):
We noticed that the water pressure was very low. Turning
the tap on this why is it pressure blocked? Why
is there no water pressure? And the water was quite discolored.
(23:36):
It was like a dark color, like it had like
a bound tent to it.
Speaker 18 (23:48):
We were brushing our teeth using that water, We were
showering in that water. We did drink the water, but
it did have a funny taste to it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
From Netflix, I'm seeing the vanishing at the Cecial Hotel
and more. The wall depression never got better.
Speaker 18 (24:05):
The receptionist told us that they will ask maintenance guys
to come and.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Get it looked at.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
There was a complaint about the water pressure so I
asked maintenance to check for possible clogs, you know, see
if everything's.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay from our friends at Netflix crime scene, the vanishing
at the Cecil Hotel. So not the police, but the
maintenance guy. After the guests complain about tainted water, find Alissa. Now,
who would think to bypass all of the security mechanisms
(24:46):
somehow extra human strength lift the top and jump into
it to be found naked. None of that makes sense,
And plus there's more about how her body was discovered
the condition in which it was discovered.
Speaker 12 (25:04):
Listen, Investigators believe a Lisa Lamb's body floated in the
water tank for the nineteen days she was missing, causing
decomposition to progress much faster. In the report, the medical
examiner knows Elsa's face and abdomen are bloated, her skin
is green and marbled, and their skin slippage on her
face scalping much of her upper body. The report even
shows that Alisa had black mold growing on her back.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Straight out to doctor Michelle Dupree, joining US pathologists, medical
examiner or detective and author, Doctor Duprie, I'm very curious
about some type of sediment found on her body. Her
skin is green and marbled, A sand like residue is
(25:46):
found all over her. Could you analyze what you've heard?
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Well, Nancy, that sounds like it's just because she was
in the water for so long. And I don't know
the environment of temperature or anything like that, but it's
suddenly that is just a byproduct of decomposition from being
in the water for such a long time too.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Havli Meerz joining US investigative journalists out of this jurisdiction, La,
describe what you know about the sediment on her body.
Speaker 14 (26:14):
Well, I believe the sediment on her body probably came
from her time in the water tank. That's something that happens,
you know, in this really scary environment. So the sediment
could have been from when she was going up and
going on the roof, and then her body's in that
water for nineteen days.
Speaker 15 (26:35):
So I my opinion is that there's a very logical
explanation for this strategy.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Pardess so far has been ruled officially as accidental, but
the details leading up to this remain a mystery. Again,
the way in which she's found does not in any
way indicate suicide. There were no traces of alcohol or
illegal drugs in her system. Her family says she was
(27:03):
taking all of her routine meds. Back to you, doctor,
Michelle Dupree, I still don't understand why your body, if
you're in the water, has sediment attached to it. What sediment?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Well, again to answer, we don't know exactly what the
report means by sediment, but if we're in the water,
our body does change chemically. It changes usually into something
we call sap qualification, which could buy some people be
described as sediment. But I think that whatever is on
the body is probably a result from her being in
the water for so long.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
Katie Orphan, manager of the Last bookstore in downtown la
is one of the last people to see and speak
with Alisa Lamb. She described Alisa as outgoing, lively, and
very friendly.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Elisa's parents report their daughter missing to LAPD and a
search ensues, but Elisa is nowhere to be found. That
is until guests at Elisa's hotel began to report something
murky in the water.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
What happened to Elisa? Well, many people would have you
believe that she is the murder victim of a ghost.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Listen, what do you think people imagine when they picture
the manager of the Cecil Hotel.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Well, unfortunately a lot of them were thinking there's some crazy,
creepy person behind the scenes that just doesn't care and
is running this hotel where all these bad things happen,
and it's not true. But I would say there are
a lot of unique challenges when you are running a
(28:44):
hotel like the Cecil. A lot came with the place.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Well, you can't prosecute a hotel or its reputation that
from crime scene the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel on Netflix.
Let's deal with reality and hard evidence. Listen.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
The mystery of how Alisa found her way into the
water tank remains. The four hotel water tanks, each with
a thousand gallon capacity, measure four by eight and require
a ladder to access. Additionally, access to the hotel's roof
is securely locked, only accessible with staff pass codes and keys.
(29:24):
Any unauthorized use of the doors or stairs would trigger
an alarm.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Straight back out to a renowned investigator, owner of MCM
Investigation's former lapd over twenty five years, Mike McCormick, Mike,
did you hear the security measures in place to guard
those cisterns from the residents? The guests at the cecil
four hotel water tanks, each with a one thousand gallon capacity.
(29:53):
They measure four by eight. No one can just fall in.
You have to go up a ladder to access each
one of them. This is important. The hotel's roof is
securely locked, only accessible with staff pass codes and keys.
Unauthorized use of doors or stairs triggers and alarm. In
(30:20):
our New York apartment, you can't go up on the roof.
It's impossible to get in unless you work there and
you have pass codes and keys. Now what does that
tell you.
Speaker 13 (30:33):
Mike Nancy? That tells me the alarm was disconnected. The
law enforcement needs to look at previous staff members and
the current staff members that were at the hotel at
the time. The fact that she went to the fire
(30:58):
escape tells me that she was looking for an escape
route and either couldn't make it all the way out
out of the fire escape and was forced back by somebody,
and from that point was murdered and taken up onto
(31:19):
the roof and dumped into the water tank. And the
law enforcement needs to look at the staff, previous staff
that may have not been working there at the time,
and the current staff at the time.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. Joining me right now is
Matt Mangino, attorney, former felony prosecutor, and author of The
Executioners Toll. Matt, thank you for being with us. Everything
McCormick just said makes perfect sense. What do you think, Well,
(32:05):
it does make sense.
Speaker 8 (32:06):
And you know, certainly, if I were investigating this case,
I'm looking on the inside immediately. If someone says that
these alarms were set, that there was no way to
get to the roof without triggering them, pass codes and
keys that I'm looking on the inside. I'm looking for
someone who would have the ability to disconnect the alarm
(32:30):
system and have keys to these areas. But the thing
that I would want to know is how many keys
are out there? I mean, this isn't the walled door
of a story. This is the Cecil Hotel. It's run down.
I mean, how many people have worked there? When was
the pass code last checked and inspected? You know, those
are all things that I would want to know. It's
(32:51):
easy to say, yeah we have a pass goode, Yeah
we have keys, are they functional? How many are there?
So I'm looking at a whole array of things. If
I'm investing this.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Kit too, Doctor Michelle Dupre, pathologists, medical examiner and detective
doctor Dupree. Even though her body had been in that
cistern for a period of days, her skin had slippage,
There was actually mold, black mold growing on her back.
Could you tell if there were signs of, for instance, asphyxiation, suffocation.
(33:27):
Could you tell if she had been molested, if she
had been raped, even though her body had been in
the water.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
NA, It may be entirely possible. It really just depends
on the circumstances. But we could certainly tell if she
had been strangled, to say, or if she had had
blunt force trauma or some other kind of trauma. Absolutely
we would be able to tell those things.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
But what about a rape kit, would you still be
able to obtain DNA?
Speaker 6 (33:51):
We would do it a rape kit, and hopefully we
would be able to But because of being in the water,
I'd say there's probably a fifty to fifty chance it's possible.
It's really going to just depend on the circumstances. Water
is certainly going to dilute any DNA, perhaps even wash
it away, But there's always a chance, and we always
take samples anyway in the hopes that we do find it.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
In the autopsy, we learned her anus was prolapsed. Could
that be a sign of sex assault?
Speaker 6 (34:18):
It could be, but chances are simply part of the decomposition.
Unless there was any trauma surrounding that, it's probably normal decomposition.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
To Karen Stark, Karen, you heard all the security measures
that were in place. The cisterns were very heavy to open,
you had to have a pass key, you had to
know secret codes within the hotel. The entire area was
locked and sealed off for guests. You couldn't get up
on the roof. But think about it, Karen Stark, if
(34:49):
she wanted to kill herself by drowning, why don't you
use the bathtub?
Speaker 11 (34:53):
Why would she go through all of that? Nancy, that's
the part that makes absolutely no sense. She could kill
herself in a backup. She could use a razor blade.
We know that she wouldn't shoot herself because she's female,
so that's unlikely. But there's so much that points to
another person actually being there. As I said, if you
really watch the elevator, how can the elevator's not moving?
(35:17):
She's pressing all those keys over and over again and
it's just staying open the whole time. Then there are
the alarms. How would she lift the lid of that
water tank and actually take off her clothes? Imagine that,
walk up the ladder that throw her clothes inside the
water tank, lift the lid, and then throw herself. It's
(35:39):
just it's so improbable. There are so many easier ways
to kill yourself.
Speaker 17 (35:44):
The Cecil Hotel, located in the skid Row area of
downtown Los Angeles, opened in nineteen twenty four and has
since been plagued by a history of mysterious, unnatural deaths
and suicides, alongside a dark roster of guests. Most notably,
infamous serial killer Richard vermier As otherwise known as the Nightstalker,
made the Cecil his temporary home in the early eighties
(36:05):
during his killing spree.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
What happened to twenty two year old Alyssa Lamb and
I guarantee you it has nothing to do with the
ghost Listen. It just blew up in a website community.
Speaker 13 (36:19):
It created this feeding front.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
If it's a murder, then you need a murderer.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
You really don't have the full story.
Speaker 16 (36:27):
She was running around trying to save her own life.
Speaker 13 (36:31):
Things to keep happening here over and over again.
Speaker 10 (36:34):
This hotel was fighting something.
Speaker 16 (36:36):
I would have never thought what was about to happen
could happen.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
This is the latest chapter in a dark history for
the Cecil Hotel. That from our friends at Netflix's crime
scene the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel, this would not
be the first time there was an unexplained death. Does
anyone recall the name Annie Lee? I do?
Speaker 19 (37:06):
Annie Lay leaves her apartment and, using Yale Transit, heads
off to the Sterling Hall of Medicine. Around ten am,
Lay walks from Sterling Hall to another campus building where
her research laboratory is located. Lay is seen on security
footage entering the building, but is not seen leaving. At
approximately nine pm that night, Lay has not returned home.
One of her five housemates calls police to purport her missing.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Annie Lay was actually murdered by a colleague who had
obsessed on her. Her body hidden in the wall. That's right,
she was murdered, and then of course some Shannon Graves,
how does she end up in a freezer?
Speaker 9 (37:46):
Shannon Graves, a twenty eight year old woman from Ohio,
was found dead in a freezer in twenty seventeen. She
had been missing for months when her dismembered remains were
discovered in a friends freezer. Investigators connected her debt to
an ex boyfriend, Atturo Novoa, who was later convicted of
her murder. The case revealed a complex web of deception,
(38:09):
and Novoa's attempts to hide the crime shocked the community.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
That's right, she didn't accidentally fall into a freezer, Nora.
Did she commit suicide by freezer? She was murdered. And
of course there's another water tank mystery, which to me
is not mysterious at all. It's a murder. Listen.
Speaker 9 (38:29):
Githa and Ghera, a chemist, was found dead in a
water tank in New Jersey. Githa had gone to collect
water samples when she disappeared. Her radio and a broken
beaker were found in the tank, with a nearby access
panel slightly ajar and glass fragments on the floor. An
autopsy revealed bruising on her neck and body, suggesting a struggle,
(38:52):
but the official cause of death was ruled and drowning.
And despite an investigation in several suspects, no arrest were
made and the case remains unsolved.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And of course there is a student Brian Schaeffer, who
goes in a bar and never comes out.
Speaker 12 (39:08):
At one fifteen am, Shaeffer, Florence and Reed head up
the Gateway Buildings escalator to the Ugly Tunic and partake
in one more rounded shots while listening to the band.
The bar is closing and masses of patrons head down
the escalator, but Florence and Reid can't find Schaeffer. The
pair eventually assumes that Shaeffer went home, likely walking to
his off campus apartment just six blocks away.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Somehow someway Brian Shaeffer is dead. To Matthew Mangino, veteran
trial lawyer and author, it's not a ghost that is
responsible for Alissa's death. And I don't believe she committed
suicide in that manner that I just don't see it. Statistically,
it didn't happen that way. Someone killed her, someone that
(39:51):
knew about those cisterns and had access to them.
Speaker 5 (39:54):
Well, yeah, I would agree with Nancy, and I think
that the focus should be on former employees, former people
who had an opportunity to know their way around the hotel.
The reason I say that is a current employee.
Speaker 20 (40:11):
You know you're not going to throw the body in
a water tank and close the cap, because you know
at some point it's going to be discovered, as it
was with.
Speaker 13 (40:21):
The murky water and the bad smell.
Speaker 8 (40:23):
So this is someone who isn't worried about being around
when that body's found, but knows their way around the hotel.
Speaker 13 (40:30):
And I would look at former employees, former maintenance.
Speaker 8 (40:33):
People who would have access to that area and know
how to navigate the security in the in the past codes.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
If you know or think you know anything about the
death of this young girl, Alyssa Lamb, please call two
one three four eight six six ' eight nine zero
repeat two one three four eight six six eight nine
zero and if you wish to remain anonymous, log on
(41:01):
to LAPD online dot org and click on anonymous web tips.
We stop now to remember an American hero. Police officer
Marshall Lee Waters, mangam p D, Louisiana, shot and killed
in the line of duty. Officer Waters with the force
(41:23):
with MANGAPD and a full time EMT. Louisiana Highway four
twenty five renamed Marshall Waters Junior Memorial Highway in his honor.
He is survived by a loving sister, Felicia Waters, and
many other loving family members. American hero police officer Marshall
(41:47):
Lee Waters end of Watch, Nancy Gray Sonning off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a carror. Hotel guests say
we tasted blood in the water at the Cecil Hotel
just before Elisa's body found floating in the hotel water tank.
(00:22):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Elisa Lamb is a twenty one year old university student
from British Columbia on a solo trip to California, starting
in San Diego and ending in Santa Cruz. She's made
it to the City of Stars, writing in her blog,
I have arrived in Lalla Land.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
What do you think people imagine when they picture the
Cecil Hotel?
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Is there a room here that maybe somebody hasn't died in.
I never got used to.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
That, never got used to that.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
Bro out.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's history.
Speaker 6 (01:05):
The hotel Cecil has always had a dark persona.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
People call it hotel death.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
This was a place where sterio killers let.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
Their hair down, like Richard Ramirez who had come back covered.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
In blood and no one's got a problem with them.
And that was from our friends over at Netflix. It's
crime scene, the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel. But let
me assure everyone, this is no ghost story. There is
nothing supernatural about Alyssa's death. There is a logical conclusion
(01:41):
for this beautiful young girl's death, and I intend to
find it. I'm not blaming it on a haunting or
some phantom. She was killed, but how nonetheless, listen to this.
Speaker 7 (01:59):
A hotel a notorious past is the site of another
bizarre case.
Speaker 8 (02:04):
Elisia Lamb from Vancouver, Canada is missing.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
The big unanswered question is where is she?
Speaker 9 (02:12):
The last footage that we have over was inside the elevator.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's where the case starts to go askew, she.
Speaker 10 (02:20):
Kept looking outside the door.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Why is the elevator not going anywhere?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Is someone keeping her here?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Her hand movements are very strange in.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Your body, like she's conjuring a spirit.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
It makes people wonder is there something evil going on here? Well,
that's all well and good for Netflix to say. In Crime,
seeing the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel, it looks to
me like she's hiding from someone, someone very much alive
in that elevator. The last known surveillance video of Elisa.
What happened to Elisa joining me in an All Star panel
(02:53):
to make sense of what we know right now? But
to Kelly Hyman joining US veteran try a lawyer, TV
legal analyst, and host of Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood.
Why is it, Kelly, that people in that jurisdiction would
rather believe in a supernatural haunting than a plane and
(03:16):
simple murder.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
People want to figure out why something happened. This case
has so many layers to it.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Here.
Speaker 7 (03:23):
We have this hotel where death occurs in the hotel.
This young beautiful girl dies in the hotel, is found
in the water tank, and still no one knows how
she was put there, how she was killed. It's important
to know, Nancy, as you know that there is no
statute limitations on murder, so whoever did this should be
(03:47):
accountable for their actions. But people want to try and
figure out what happened. Why did she die? If someone
didn't kill her, what exactly occurred?
Speaker 8 (03:56):
You know?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
To Karen started following up on what trial lawyer Kelly
Hyman is saying. Karen Stark is with US renowned as psychologist,
TV radio trauma expert. You can find her at Karensdark
dot com. That's Karen with a C if you're looking
for her online. Karen, why do people want to believe
there was a supernatural haunting, that a phantom has something
(04:16):
to do with this girl's death. It didn't. Don't you
jump on the bandwagon and tune up about a ghost.
Did you see her in that elevator. She looks like
she's hiding from someone. Why does everyone want to assume
it's a ghost.
Speaker 11 (04:30):
Well, because that's much more exciting, Nancy, the idea that
this is a hotel that's haunted and has phantoms, and
you know, people really enjoy looking at the supernatural, or
the idea that there are forces we don't know about.
And yet what you said is absolutely true. You see
her being terrified, raising her hands. It does seem like
(04:54):
someone is after her. It has nothing to do with
the ghost. It has much more to do with who
is there? Who don't we know about? How in the
world did this happen?
Speaker 1 (05:04):
There you seeing her hiding back in the corner of
the elevator. That last known surveillance video off her at
the beginning it I couldn't tell she punching a floor
or some other button, looking both ways at one point
gesticulating what happened to this twenty two year old girl?
As a matter of fact, who is she?
Speaker 12 (05:26):
Listen A Lisa Lamb is a twenty one year old
student at the University of British Columbia. She's an avid
blogger active on the popular social site Tumbler under the
pen name Nouvelle Nouveau. There she posts a mix of
chic and trending fashion photos, quotes strewn with bits and
pieces of her personal life, including her upcoming solo trip
to California and she.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Was excited about the trip. Listen.
Speaker 9 (05:49):
Lisa Lamb embarks on a solo trip to California. Despite
her parents' protest, she reassures them with the promise of
daily check ins by phone. Her first stop is the
San Diego Zoo. Before arriving in La on January twenty sixth,
she posts on her Tumblr blog, I have arrived in
Lalla lad. She checks into the Cecil Hotel in downtown
(06:10):
LA in an area known as skid Row, with the
plan to stay in her shared hostile style suite for
a total of four days and three nights.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Joining me in addition to Hadley Mere's investigative journalist Mike
McCormick is with US, owner and lead investigator of MCM Investigations,
FORMERLAPD Los Angeles Police department over twenty five years, and
you can find an mcminvestigations dot com. While Mike, having
(06:41):
been in LA for twenty five years, I guess you've
seen it all, or have you? I don't get why
people want to blame her death on a ghost. To
get up into that water tank, you had to go
through all sorts of security hoops and she would not
have had those codes and the wherewithal to do that.
(07:04):
But let me ask you this, Mike McCormick, why is
it in your neck of the woods people would rather
believe in a supernatural phantom as opposed to a cold
blooded killer.
Speaker 13 (07:17):
That very just muddies the waters. I believe she was
she was murdered. I believe she was picking up to
the water tank and dumped into it. My question would be,
why wasn't these water tanks locked down? They're not only
(07:42):
had access for her to be thrown in there, but
somebody could go up there any time and you know,
contaminate the water with poison. So this whole scenario does
not make sense.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And another thing to Mike McCormick, veteran investigator, former LAPD.
She embarks on a solo trip to California, now. One
of the first things she did, and I can remember, Mike,
when we were living in La for Dancing with the Stars.
We lived there nearly a year. The children were about
(08:14):
three years old. One of the first things we did
was take the train from La to San Diego to
see the famed San Diego Zoo, and it was amazing.
My point is, this does not sound like a girl
that is entertaining thoughts of death in any way. She
(08:35):
doesn't seem afraid for her life. She certainly was not suicidal.
She's at the San Diego Zoo posting about it.
Speaker 13 (08:44):
No, she doesn't seem like she was depressed at all.
She was having appeared to be having a good time.
Other than that video in the elevator, she's scared of something.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
You're absolutely right there at the so called horror hotel,
the Cecil. So what do we know happens? Next two
Hadley Meres joining us investigative journalist in this jurisdiction, La
HATTLEI thanks so much for being with us. Let me
ask you, why do people want very much to believe
(09:20):
in a haunting at the Cecil hotel as being responsible
for this girl's death. That's total bs technical, legal term.
Speaker 14 (09:28):
Yes. Well, I think the reason a lot of people
want to believe in this kind of ghostly thing happening
to Alisa, this great mystery, is because of the history
of the Cecil Hotel. A lot of my work delves
into the history and law of lesser known places in
Los Angeles, and in all of my years of journalism
in LA I have never come across the place with
(09:49):
more documented.
Speaker 15 (09:51):
Suicides, deaths, infamous murders. We had two serial killers, and
so this is a place that has been notorious for decades.
Way before this tragedy with Alisa Lamb. I mean, residents
would kind of morbidly jokingly call it the suicide. So
it's always had this very bad reputation. Then you have
(10:13):
this beautiful, vibrant young girl disappear. The police released this
mysterious video that does look strange, and you're off to
the races in internet culture of today.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And that's seemed to take over the entire investigation crime
stories with Nancy Grace, when did we first realize something
was wrong?
Speaker 9 (10:44):
Listen, Alisa Lamb is supposed to end her stay at
the Cecil Hotel on January thirty first, but she never
makes it to check out. Her parents begin to worry
as Alisa has failed to uphold her promise of daily
check ins that contact the LAPD, and a search ensues
for the young university student. Dogs search her room and
(11:06):
the hotel rooftop, but Alisa is nowhere to be found.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
You know, right there, Hedley Mere is joining us investigated
journalists in la I'm very curious dogs searched the roof.
Now I know that dogs hit on the fire escape area,
So that leads me to believe the dogs led police
to the roof. Did they not see those water tanks
(11:32):
up there?
Speaker 14 (11:33):
They did see the water tanks, and they do say
that they very much regret not checking the water tanks
because they did in fact search the roof. So you know,
it's tragic because she ends up being in there for
much longer than she could have if the police had
gone up to check the water tanks.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Now, the police dogs picked up on her scent at
a window leading to a fire escape, not all the
fire escape itself. So who dragged her body to the
roof and put her in one of these cisterns? Look
(12:11):
At how difficult it is to get in and out
of the cistern. Could she have done that on her own.
They've got a whole fleet of workers trying to look
in there. So other than the reputation of the cecil,
nothing suggests she took her own life. What happened to Elisa?
(12:37):
As a matter of fact, one of the last people
to see her alive and speak to her says she
was very much vibrant, alive, excited and looking forward. I
want you to hear what she says.
Speaker 16 (12:53):
We would see hundreds, if not thousands of people a day,
and the fact that she was so gregarious made it
easy for me to remember her and remember what our
interaction was like. She was asking a lot about like
the weight of what she had, and whether or not
she would need to ship things home or if she
(13:14):
could still like put it all in her suitcase. I
could not at this point tell you any of the
titles that she purchased. I do remember her buying a lot.
It was like, you know, a banker's.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Box worth of books and records. That's really important sound
and that comes from our friends at Fox eleven in La.
It's Katie Orphan, a bookstore owner, and to you, Karen Start,
renowned psychologist. It's classic, classic evidence that this young woman
(13:48):
just twenty two, was not planning to take her own life.
She went and bought out the bookstore. She bought so
many books that she was trying to figure out how
to ship them home, whether I would all fit in
her suitcase. Did you hear that? And what does it
tell you Karen's talk?
Speaker 11 (14:04):
It tells me that she was enjoying her life. These
books were supposed to be presents for her family. She
was looking forward to the trip. And Nancy, there are
alarms that go off if you try to get into
those water tanks and you're on the roof, So it
seems to me somebody must have known how to shut
off the alarms, because how would she know not one
(14:30):
more than one and then get herself up there and
lift the lid. That just seems inconceivable. She's a small girl,
She's twenty one years old. So I also want to
add that people love, as your question was before ghost stories,
because if you think about sitting around a campsite and
(14:50):
kids and they are exciting, they make you have adrenaline,
just like quantit houses. So they don't pay attention to
the facts here, which is how in the w the
world could she have done this.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Joining me is renowned and esteemed medical examiner. She shot
to the forefront of the nation's consciousness during the Alex
Murdog double murder trial. Joining me is doctor Michelle Dupree,
forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and looky for Me former detective
with the Lexington County Sheriff's Department. She is the author
(15:23):
of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdog Dynasty the rest
of the story, but for my purposes. She is the
author of the Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Michelle Dupree,
thank you for being with us. Another fact that really
sticks out in my mind, doctor Michelle, is that she
(15:43):
was found naked. And you and I have discussed many,
many times the assessment and method of homicide and suicide.
It is extremely rare, I would venture to say, almost
nonexistent for a female to commit suicide without any clothes.
(16:04):
On why I'm not a shrink, I don't know, but
I do know from a case I tried, Doctor Michelle Duprie,
A case I tried. I'll never forget it. The district
attorney called me over the loud speaker, Nancy, come to
my office. I literally ran to mister Slayton's office, and
he wanted me to investigate and possibly prosecute a suicide.
(16:30):
It had been built a suicide. It wasn't a suicide,
doctor Duprie. And the moment I walked into the victim's
home and found out she was lying in the bed
buck naked with a gunshot went to the head. I'm like, no,
that's not right. Help me out, doctor Duprie. I know
it sounds anecdotal, but statistics verify what I'm saying. A
(16:52):
woman does not commit suicide naked.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Nancy, You're absolutely right, And the other things don't add
up either, everything that the other guests have said. You know,
how did she get into the water tank, how did
she even get upstairs, how did she get past the codes?
All of that, you know, And as you know, drowning
is a diagnosis of exclusion. And we don't really know
why or how she died as far as I know.
But she couldn't have done this by herself. Nothing, nothing
(17:17):
indicates that this was a person with suicidal ideation.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Elisa Lamb has promised her parents a daily check in
by phone while on her solo trip to the Golden State.
So the Lambs begin to worry when on January thirty first,
Elisa fails to call either of them.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
What do you think people imagine when they picture the
Cecil Hotel?
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Is there a room here that maybe somebody hasn't died in.
I never got used to that, never got used to.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
That browt It's history. The hotel Cecil has always had
a dark persona.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
People call it death.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
This was a place where serial killers let.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
Their hair down, like Richard Ramirez who had come back
covered in blood.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And no one's got a problem with them. As much
as our friends at Netflix would like to advance the
theory that this is a super natural phenomena, it's not.
She was killed. Elisa was killed. That was from our
friends at Netflix. Crime scene, the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel.
(18:31):
No supernatural phantom had a hand and the death of
this young girl. But I want to take a look
at the surveillance video that catches her just before she's killed.
Speaker 17 (18:43):
The surveillance video released by the LAPD shows a Lisa
Lamb entering the hotel elevator and crouching to press several buttons.
She then backs into a corner, waiting before suddenly darting
out of the elevator, swiveling her head urgently from side
to side. At one point, she steps completely out of
the elevator, movie out of view for some time, before
returning and repeatedly pressing the elevator buttons. She steps out again,
(19:06):
gesturing strangely to an unseen individual outside the elevator to
her right, moving her arm in circles and flexing her
wrists and fingers. The elevator door remains open this entire time. Finally,
Alisa slides out of view into the hallway and the
elevator door closes, before opening and closing two more times,
(19:26):
with Alisa nowhere to be seen.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Kelly Himan joining US veteran trial lawyer, TV legal analyst
and host ofb Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood. Kelly,
of course, under the law, when you argue to a jury,
you are not allowed to ask any juror to put
themselves in the shoes of the victim. However, you can
(19:51):
say things like watch her on this elevator. She's clearly
afraid of somebody. Don't even say some thing. Okay, I
know your podcast is wants to put up a crime
in Hollywood, but I am not buying into the la
theory that a ghost did this. That said, you don't
have to passage. You are to say is this how
(20:14):
you would behave You can say things like is that normal?
What do you think she's feeling right now? What do
you think she's hiding from? Look at her. That's how
you could argue that to a jury and not get
an objection that would be sustained in front of the jury.
You don't want that. You do not want the other
(20:35):
size objections to be sustained. No, So you don't ever
want to do anything evidentiarily wrong in front of a jury.
But she's clearly Kelly afraid of something.
Speaker 7 (20:47):
What was her state of mind?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Nancy?
Speaker 7 (20:50):
That is definitely key.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So when we.
Speaker 7 (20:52):
Look at this video, we see her there and then
all of a sudden she's hiding behind like to hide
herself so she can't be seen. And then she is
getting out of the elevator. She's peeking out looking to
see someone. She's crouching down as well and making all
types of hand gestures, and then gets back in the elevation,
(21:13):
looks around to see who's there. This looks like a
woman who is afraid of whoever is about to come
in the elevator.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Karen starting joining me as a psychologist. Karen, I want
to ask you a very specific question. For someone to
have visual hallucination is rare, but even more rare, I
believe it's auditory hearing, some sort of hallucination. You heard
the bookstore owner describing her just before her death. She
(21:46):
was perfectly in control of her faculties and trying to
figure out how she could get all of these books
shipped home, very happy and very excited. I find that
very hard to reconcile with her possibly having auditory or
visual hallucinations. I don't think she did. I mean, you
have to look at the facts, and the facts are
(22:08):
a couple hours before her death, she was perfectly saying,
and she.
Speaker 11 (22:12):
Was perfectly saying throughout the trip and having a great time.
Think about this, as I'm watching that elevator doesn't move.
What's going on that the elevator stays open and it
looks like she's desperately trying to get it to close
go to a different floor. I don't know about an
elevator that could stay that way unless somebody is really
(22:33):
controlling the elevator and keeping it open. So something is
really wrong with all of this, including as I said before,
the fact that the alarms were intriggered when supposedly she
put herself on the roof. I also want to address
what you said earlier about women not killing themselves when
they're nude, because the truth is women care about their
(22:55):
parents and so in fact, they even put on makeup
sometimes because they want to look good. They do think
about that. Statistically, we know it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Even though her appearans were distraught, no one could find
Alissa until guests began complaining. At the Cecil Hotel.
Speaker 10 (23:15):
We noticed that the water pressure was very low. Turning
the tap on this why is it pressure blocked? Why
is there no water pressure? And the water was quite discolored.
(23:36):
It was like a dark color, like it had like
a bound tent to it.
Speaker 18 (23:48):
We were brushing our teeth using that water, We were
showering in that water. We did drink the water, but
it did have a funny taste to it.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
From Netflix, I'm seeing the vanishing at the Cecial Hotel
and more. The wall depression never got better.
Speaker 18 (24:05):
The receptionist told us that they will ask maintenance guys
to come and.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Get it looked at.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
There was a complaint about the water pressure so I
asked maintenance to check for possible clogs, you know, see
if everything's.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Okay from our friends at Netflix crime scene, the vanishing
at the Cecil Hotel. So not the police, but the
maintenance guy. After the guests complain about tainted water, find Alissa. Now,
who would think to bypass all of the security mechanisms
(24:46):
somehow extra human strength lift the top and jump into
it to be found naked. None of that makes sense,
And plus there's more about how her body was discovered
the condition in which it was discovered.
Speaker 12 (25:04):
Listen, Investigators believe a Lisa Lamb's body floated in the
water tank for the nineteen days she was missing, causing
decomposition to progress much faster. In the report, the medical
examiner knows Elsa's face and abdomen are bloated, her skin
is green and marbled, and their skin slippage on her
face scalping much of her upper body. The report even
shows that Alisa had black mold growing on her back.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Straight out to doctor Michelle Dupree, joining US pathologists, medical
examiner or detective and author, Doctor Duprie, I'm very curious
about some type of sediment found on her body. Her
skin is green and marbled, A sand like residue is
(25:46):
found all over her. Could you analyze what you've heard?
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Well, Nancy, that sounds like it's just because she was
in the water for so long. And I don't know
the environment of temperature or anything like that, but it's
suddenly that is just a byproduct of decomposition from being
in the water for such a long time too.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Havli Meerz joining US investigative journalists out of this jurisdiction, La,
describe what you know about the sediment on her body.
Speaker 14 (26:14):
Well, I believe the sediment on her body probably came
from her time in the water tank. That's something that happens,
you know, in this really scary environment. So the sediment
could have been from when she was going up and
going on the roof, and then her body's in that
water for nineteen days.
Speaker 15 (26:35):
So I my opinion is that there's a very logical
explanation for this strategy.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Pardess so far has been ruled officially as accidental, but
the details leading up to this remain a mystery. Again,
the way in which she's found does not in any
way indicate suicide. There were no traces of alcohol or
illegal drugs in her system. Her family says she was
(27:03):
taking all of her routine meds. Back to you, doctor,
Michelle Dupree, I still don't understand why your body, if
you're in the water, has sediment attached to it. What sediment?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Well, again to answer, we don't know exactly what the
report means by sediment, but if we're in the water,
our body does change chemically. It changes usually into something
we call sap qualification, which could buy some people be
described as sediment. But I think that whatever is on
the body is probably a result from her being in
the water for so long.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
Katie Orphan, manager of the Last bookstore in downtown la
is one of the last people to see and speak
with Alisa Lamb. She described Alisa as outgoing, lively, and
very friendly.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Elisa's parents report their daughter missing to LAPD and a
search ensues, but Elisa is nowhere to be found. That
is until guests at Elisa's hotel began to report something
murky in the water.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
What happened to Elisa? Well, many people would have you
believe that she is the murder victim of a ghost.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Listen, what do you think people imagine when they picture
the manager of the Cecil Hotel.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Well, unfortunately a lot of them were thinking there's some crazy,
creepy person behind the scenes that just doesn't care and
is running this hotel where all these bad things happen,
and it's not true. But I would say there are
a lot of unique challenges when you are running a
(28:44):
hotel like the Cecil. A lot came with the place.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Well, you can't prosecute a hotel or its reputation that
from crime scene the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel on Netflix.
Let's deal with reality and hard evidence. Listen.
Speaker 9 (29:03):
The mystery of how Alisa found her way into the
water tank remains. The four hotel water tanks, each with
a thousand gallon capacity, measure four by eight and require
a ladder to access. Additionally, access to the hotel's roof
is securely locked, only accessible with staff pass codes and keys.
(29:24):
Any unauthorized use of the doors or stairs would trigger
an alarm.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Straight back out to a renowned investigator, owner of MCM
Investigation's former lapd over twenty five years, Mike McCormick, Mike,
did you hear the security measures in place to guard
those cisterns from the residents? The guests at the cecil
four hotel water tanks, each with a one thousand gallon capacity.
(29:53):
They measure four by eight. No one can just fall in.
You have to go up a ladder to access each
one of them. This is important. The hotel's roof is
securely locked, only accessible with staff pass codes and keys.
Unauthorized use of doors or stairs triggers and alarm. In
(30:20):
our New York apartment, you can't go up on the roof.
It's impossible to get in unless you work there and
you have pass codes and keys. Now what does that
tell you.
Speaker 13 (30:33):
Mike Nancy? That tells me the alarm was disconnected. The
law enforcement needs to look at previous staff members and
the current staff members that were at the hotel at
the time. The fact that she went to the fire
(30:58):
escape tells me that she was looking for an escape
route and either couldn't make it all the way out
out of the fire escape and was forced back by somebody,
and from that point was murdered and taken up onto
(31:19):
the roof and dumped into the water tank. And the
law enforcement needs to look at the staff, previous staff
that may have not been working there at the time,
and the current staff at the time.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Crime Stores with Nancy Gray. Joining me right now is
Matt Mangino, attorney, former felony prosecutor, and author of The
Executioners Toll. Matt, thank you for being with us. Everything
McCormick just said makes perfect sense. What do you think, Well,
(32:05):
it does make sense.
Speaker 8 (32:06):
And you know, certainly, if I were investigating this case,
I'm looking on the inside immediately. If someone says that
these alarms were set, that there was no way to
get to the roof without triggering them, pass codes and
keys that I'm looking on the inside. I'm looking for
someone who would have the ability to disconnect the alarm
(32:30):
system and have keys to these areas. But the thing
that I would want to know is how many keys
are out there? I mean, this isn't the walled door
of a story. This is the Cecil Hotel. It's run down.
I mean, how many people have worked there? When was
the pass code last checked and inspected? You know, those
are all things that I would want to know. It's
(32:51):
easy to say, yeah we have a pass goode, Yeah
we have keys, are they functional? How many are there?
So I'm looking at a whole array of things. If
I'm investing this.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Kit too, Doctor Michelle Dupre, pathologists, medical examiner and detective
doctor Dupree. Even though her body had been in that
cistern for a period of days, her skin had slippage,
There was actually mold, black mold growing on her back.
Could you tell if there were signs of, for instance, asphyxiation, suffocation.
(33:27):
Could you tell if she had been molested, if she
had been raped, even though her body had been in
the water.
Speaker 6 (33:33):
NA, It may be entirely possible. It really just depends
on the circumstances. But we could certainly tell if she
had been strangled, to say, or if she had had
blunt force trauma or some other kind of trauma. Absolutely
we would be able to tell those things.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
But what about a rape kit, would you still be
able to obtain DNA?
Speaker 6 (33:51):
We would do it a rape kit, and hopefully we
would be able to But because of being in the water,
I'd say there's probably a fifty to fifty chance it's possible.
It's really going to just depend on the circumstances. Water
is certainly going to dilute any DNA, perhaps even wash
it away, But there's always a chance, and we always
take samples anyway in the hopes that we do find it.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
In the autopsy, we learned her anus was prolapsed. Could
that be a sign of sex assault?
Speaker 6 (34:18):
It could be, but chances are simply part of the decomposition.
Unless there was any trauma surrounding that, it's probably normal decomposition.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
To Karen Stark, Karen, you heard all the security measures
that were in place. The cisterns were very heavy to open,
you had to have a pass key, you had to
know secret codes within the hotel. The entire area was
locked and sealed off for guests. You couldn't get up
on the roof. But think about it, Karen Stark, if
(34:49):
she wanted to kill herself by drowning, why don't you
use the bathtub?
Speaker 11 (34:53):
Why would she go through all of that? Nancy, that's
the part that makes absolutely no sense. She could kill
herself in a backup. She could use a razor blade.
We know that she wouldn't shoot herself because she's female,
so that's unlikely. But there's so much that points to
another person actually being there. As I said, if you
really watch the elevator, how can the elevator's not moving?
(35:17):
She's pressing all those keys over and over again and
it's just staying open the whole time. Then there are
the alarms. How would she lift the lid of that
water tank and actually take off her clothes? Imagine that,
walk up the ladder that throw her clothes inside the
water tank, lift the lid, and then throw herself. It's
(35:39):
just it's so improbable. There are so many easier ways
to kill yourself.
Speaker 17 (35:44):
The Cecil Hotel, located in the skid Row area of
downtown Los Angeles, opened in nineteen twenty four and has
since been plagued by a history of mysterious, unnatural deaths
and suicides, alongside a dark roster of guests. Most notably,
infamous serial killer Richard vermier As otherwise known as the Nightstalker,
made the Cecil his temporary home in the early eighties
(36:05):
during his killing spree.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
What happened to twenty two year old Alyssa Lamb and
I guarantee you it has nothing to do with the
ghost Listen. It just blew up in a website community.
Speaker 13 (36:19):
It created this feeding front.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
If it's a murder, then you need a murderer.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
You really don't have the full story.
Speaker 16 (36:27):
She was running around trying to save her own life.
Speaker 13 (36:31):
Things to keep happening here over and over again.
Speaker 10 (36:34):
This hotel was fighting something.
Speaker 16 (36:36):
I would have never thought what was about to happen
could happen.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
This is the latest chapter in a dark history for
the Cecil Hotel. That from our friends at Netflix's crime
scene the vanishing at the Cecil Hotel, this would not
be the first time there was an unexplained death. Does
anyone recall the name Annie Lee? I do?
Speaker 19 (37:06):
Annie Lay leaves her apartment and, using Yale Transit, heads
off to the Sterling Hall of Medicine. Around ten am,
Lay walks from Sterling Hall to another campus building where
her research laboratory is located. Lay is seen on security
footage entering the building, but is not seen leaving. At
approximately nine pm that night, Lay has not returned home.
One of her five housemates calls police to purport her missing.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
Annie Lay was actually murdered by a colleague who had
obsessed on her. Her body hidden in the wall. That's right,
she was murdered, and then of course some Shannon Graves,
how does she end up in a freezer?
Speaker 9 (37:46):
Shannon Graves, a twenty eight year old woman from Ohio,
was found dead in a freezer in twenty seventeen. She
had been missing for months when her dismembered remains were
discovered in a friends freezer. Investigators connected her debt to
an ex boyfriend, Atturo Novoa, who was later convicted of
her murder. The case revealed a complex web of deception,
(38:09):
and Novoa's attempts to hide the crime shocked the community.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
That's right, she didn't accidentally fall into a freezer, Nora.
Did she commit suicide by freezer? She was murdered. And
of course there's another water tank mystery, which to me
is not mysterious at all. It's a murder. Listen.
Speaker 9 (38:29):
Githa and Ghera, a chemist, was found dead in a
water tank in New Jersey. Githa had gone to collect
water samples when she disappeared. Her radio and a broken
beaker were found in the tank, with a nearby access
panel slightly ajar and glass fragments on the floor. An
autopsy revealed bruising on her neck and body, suggesting a struggle,
(38:52):
but the official cause of death was ruled and drowning.
And despite an investigation in several suspects, no arrest were
made and the case remains unsolved.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And of course there is a student Brian Schaeffer, who
goes in a bar and never comes out.
Speaker 12 (39:08):
At one fifteen am, Shaeffer, Florence and Reed head up
the Gateway Buildings escalator to the Ugly Tunic and partake
in one more rounded shots while listening to the band.
The bar is closing and masses of patrons head down
the escalator, but Florence and Reid can't find Schaeffer. The
pair eventually assumes that Shaeffer went home, likely walking to
his off campus apartment just six blocks away.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Somehow someway Brian Shaeffer is dead. To Matthew Mangino, veteran
trial lawyer and author, it's not a ghost that is
responsible for Alissa's death. And I don't believe she committed
suicide in that manner that I just don't see it. Statistically,
it didn't happen that way. Someone killed her, someone that
(39:51):
knew about those cisterns and had access to them.
Speaker 5 (39:54):
Well, yeah, I would agree with Nancy, and I think
that the focus should be on former employees, former people
who had an opportunity to know their way around the hotel.
The reason I say that is a current employee.
Speaker 20 (40:11):
You know you're not going to throw the body in
a water tank and close the cap, because you know
at some point it's going to be discovered, as it
was with.
Speaker 13 (40:21):
The murky water and the bad smell.
Speaker 8 (40:23):
So this is someone who isn't worried about being around
when that body's found, but knows their way around the hotel.
Speaker 13 (40:30):
And I would look at former employees, former maintenance.
Speaker 8 (40:33):
People who would have access to that area and know
how to navigate the security in the in the past codes.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
If you know or think you know anything about the
death of this young girl, Alyssa Lamb, please call two
one three four eight six six ' eight nine zero
repeat two one three four eight six six eight nine
zero and if you wish to remain anonymous, log on
(41:01):
to LAPD online dot org and click on anonymous web tips.
We stop now to remember an American hero. Police officer
Marshall Lee Waters, mangam p D, Louisiana, shot and killed
in the line of duty. Officer Waters with the force
(41:23):
with MANGAPD and a full time EMT. Louisiana Highway four
twenty five renamed Marshall Waters Junior Memorial Highway in his honor.
He is survived by a loving sister, Felicia Waters, and
many other loving family members. American hero police officer Marshall
(41:47):
Lee Waters end of Watch, Nancy Gray Sonning off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio
Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.