December 18, 2024 • 41 mins
Luigi Mangione has been indicted on first-degree murder in furtherance of terrorism. He is also charged with two counts of murder in the second degree, with one of those counts also denoting Mangione murder of CEO Brian Thompson as an act of terrorism.
Mangione's family has yet to visit since his arrest, but he has had several meetings with his defense team that now includes high-profile attorney, Karen Friedman- Agnifilo. Police questioned Mangione's mom the day before he was captured. She told officers that the shooting 'might be something that she could see him doing.'
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY:
- Matt Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States"
Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive - Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective, former member FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast, https://thegoldshieldshow.com, FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel, website: www.ChristinaAguayoNews.Com, Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNews
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Inciting fear the health Boss assassin Luigi Mangione's charges just
upgraded to murder one, claiming.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Terrorism was the root of the shooting.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This as Mom's chilling comment to law enforcement is revealed.
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Luigi Mangioni remains behind bars in a Pennsylvania prison as
he fights extradition to New York City Online. So called
fans of the killer clamor.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
For his release.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
They're not just clamoring now, authorities a fear a copycat crime.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
May be in the works.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But this as Luigi Mangioni's charges now upgraded to murder one, listen.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Luigi Manjoni, the defendant is charged with one count of
murder in the first degree and two counts of murder
in the second degree, including one count of murder in
the second degree as an act of terrorism, for the brazen, targeted,
and premeditated shooting of Brian Thompson, who, as you know,
(01:24):
was the CEO of United Healthcare.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Joining US and All Star panel experts to make sense
of what we are learning right now about the so
called health Boss assassin straight out to Christina Yo joining
US national news anchor with Salem News Channel. Christina, thank
you for being with us. Explain to us the new charges. Now,
the old charges were a out of Pennsylvania where he
(01:49):
was apprehended at the McDonald's. Okay, the murder did not
occur in Pennsylvania, so therefore he will not be facing
that charge in Pennsylvania. The new charge charges or originating
from a grand jury out of New York.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
What are they? Okay?
Speaker 6 (02:05):
So, now, as we just heard, Elvin Bragg, the District
Attorney in Manhattan, alongside NYPD commissed Jessica Tish announced these
new charges for New York. Number one one count of
murder one murder.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
In the first degree.
Speaker 6 (02:17):
He's facing two counts of murder, two murder in the
second degree, one with the underlying cause of terrorism. And
that's because Alvin Bragg said that this was premeditated, it
was an ideological crime, and it was committed in order
to strike fear, terror, shock attention into the residents of
New York and the tourists of New York as well.
(02:38):
So that's why those charges have been outlining the way
that they have. In addition to the murder one and
the murder two. He's facing a slew of other felony
charges too.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of La
author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You can see her on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany, they
had to, and it's.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Very rare, especially for Bragg to take a a hard
crime fighting position.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Don't ask me why about that, but that said doctor Bethany.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
They had to because the lifeblood of Manhattan is tourism.
What tourists wants to go see Hamilton or whatever if
they think they're going to get gunned down by an
assassinite Luigi MANGIONI, Oh no way, are.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
You going to take your children to Times Square?
Speaker 7 (03:25):
You know, Nancy, not even just gunned down, but somebody
who had the means to do this in such a
crowded area. Somebody who stayed at a hostel, somebody who
carried a bike battery with him, someone who discarded a.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Backpack in Central Park. This is where women.
Speaker 8 (03:41):
And men, families take their children to play.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
And you know what, Nancy, I'm going to anticipate there
are going to be a lot of tourists flocking to
the scene where this crime took place, so we're going
to have both a ghoulish quality of crime watching in
the city and then families who want to stay away.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well put.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, Yo just explained the most recent development in
the Mangioni case.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
We say a bit more about the charges. They include
one count of murder in the first degree as a
killing in furtheres of terrorism, two counts of murdering the
second degree, one charging of the killing was done as
an act of terrorism, and the second pertaining to the
fact that the killing was intentional. The maximum penalty possible
(04:30):
for murdering the first degree and murdering the second degree
is an active terrorism is life without parole. The maximum
penalty for murdering the second degree is twenty five years
to life.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Joining me high profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former felony prosecutor,
author of the Executioner's Toll. Matt, thank you for being
with us now. I don't want to go to Inside
Baseball to deafcom four on this, but when you say
the murder one charge is based on terrorism and intentional killing,
(05:02):
that's the second theory of murder one murder two is
also an intentional killing. Really, the only difference is who
is the victim when it comes to intent as it
relates to murder one versus murder two.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Agreed, disagree?
Speaker 9 (05:16):
Well, I agree, but Nancy, I'm a little suspect of
the terrorism aspect of this. I don't see how this
is an act of terrorism. Certainly, you know it intimidates
the community, But any violent crime in downtown Manhattan, you know,
intimidates the community, makes people fearful. I don't see that
(05:40):
this is trying to influence the government policy in any way.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So I think the second verse, same as the first,
to state can't prove it. You don't think people are
terrorized by somebody like MANGIONI wandering around Time Square, wandering
around the city, lying in wait. We now know he
stood out there in the cold over an hour waiting
(06:06):
for the victim to show up. You know what, Listen
to brag.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
This was a frightening, well planned, targeted murder that was
intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation. It incurred
in one of the most bustling parts of our city,
threatening the safety of local residents and tourists alike. Commuters,
and business people just starting out on their day.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Back to you, Mangino, question, you're saying the state can't
prove the terrorism aspect of the murder one charge. Now,
murder one in New York must include aggravating circumstances or
additional circumstances such as the victim was in law enforcement,
the victim was a judge, the victim was the first responder,
(06:55):
murder for hire, or inciting fear in furtherance terrorism. I'm
sure you, as a family prosecutor must have shown aggravating
circumstances before.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
It's not that hard.
Speaker 9 (07:07):
Well, yeah, I have, particularly in my jurisdiction in death
penalty cases. But again, I think that that the terrorism
charge is a stretch here. You know, it's any homicide,
any violent crime that's out in the public square in
New York City incites fear and potential terrorists and other
(07:28):
crime rates it's themselves incite fear in people. So I
think the terrorism charge, Man.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Gino, I'm sorry, let me just check my ut. Yeah, okay,
that's working. Did you just compare the cold blooded will
planned execution of the healthcare boss to crime rates going
up across the country.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Are you saying you know what matt eh cut. Here's Mike.
Let me go to Tom Smith.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Tom Smith joining me, a former NYPD detective over thirty
years now, the star of the gold Shields podcast. Tom,
could you please enlighten Matthew Mangino. Okay, I've checked his record.
He's a very successful former felony prosecutor. I don't know
what he's saying. I don't know what's coming out of
his mouth, but to say people won't go to Times
(08:15):
Square and visit New York because of rising crime rates,
that's bs.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
New York is thronged.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Okay, But this this they had to do. They had
to come down with this charge for the very reason
of tourists, of the well being of.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
The citizens, of the credibility.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
If Brad can try to get credibility with the citizens.
They had to do a murder one charge and gunning
somebody down in cold blood because of a titular reason.
The title like, you go down to judge because they're
a judge. You go down a cop because he she
is a cop. You gun down this guy, Ryan Thompson
(09:00):
because he's the head of United Healthcare. That is terrorism.
There's a big difference. I've gone taking the children to
go see plays and go skating at Rockefeller Center and
woman without fear of terrorism.
Speaker 10 (09:15):
No, I think it's a correct charge because, first of all,
it's precedent setting for any possible copycats out there.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Now.
Speaker 10 (09:23):
The highest charge that New York can bring was brought
against him, and it did intimidate the public, and not
only just the public in general, every CEO in his
country felt fear and was frightened by this and took
steps security wise with then their families. Not just in
the healthcare system, but every CEO in this country was
(09:44):
now under the intimidation of a murder like that. So
I think going forward, it's the right charge, and it's
going to have a ripple effect with any possible copycats
that He's going.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
To go on.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Cheryl McCollum, founded director of Cold Case Research Institute and
star of the hit series Zone seven podcasts, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
What in the Hey?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Tom is absolutely right? Every single CEO in the Fortune
five hundred industries have changed the way they do business.
He had a homemade weapon that he kept because I
believe he wasn't finished, and he also talked about bombs
he also had specific, you know, a target, but the
fact that he would make weapons, talk about other weapons
(10:42):
of mass destruction. It again reminds me of our Olympic
park bombing. We had one murder, one Alic Hophorn, but
those games shut down, athletes went home. Every single Olympics
since then has changed the way they do business. This
single murder, this single assassination, is absolutely an act of terrorism.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You know, it's very interesting as a way that Matthew
Mangino is trying to say that terror was not caused.
Cheryl McCollum, you just pointed out that healthcare industry execs
across the country and in fact, the healthcare industry itself
(11:28):
is changing the way it does business.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
What did you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
You know, you've got CEOs now, not just in healthcare.
But is there going to be some crackpot that says, hey,
airlines are monopoly, car manufacturers are monopoly. Who's next? They
have no choice but to go to their security heads
and say, hey, how can I be safe? And they've
got to maintain a level of security not just for
(11:53):
themselves but for their family. It's a different day than
it was cadays ago.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know, I want to go back to Christina Oio
joining US national news anchor. Isn't it true, Christina that months,
just a few months before he was gunned down in
the street, Brian Thompson issued a very chilling warning to
the United Healthcare executives about the way that the industry
(12:21):
was portrayed and actually pushed measures to change the way
healthcare was working.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
That's absolutely right, and we found that out just recently
by the parent company of United Healthcare. He was actually,
Brian Thompson was actually a good guy, quote unquote who
was working to fix things, who actually felt the pain
of the people who were getting their claims denied or
having to pay these enormous deductibles and sky high monthly premiums,
and he was trying to bring awareness to it. He
(12:50):
was trying to fix it, and he was actually trying
to enact change across the entire healthcare industry, at least
that out of United Healthcare, to sort of reverse the
problems the issues that people were having with the healthcare system.
So it appears as though Luigi Mangioni targeted, allegedly targeted
and killed, allegedly killed the wrong man.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You know, it's really bizarre.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It seems like he got at bass ackwards while he
was lying on the beach in Hawaii hatching his murder plan,
and picks out Brian Thompson, Christina, and I want to
get these words exactly correct.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Thompson had just.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
In a very eerie Oh there he is lounging without
a shirt on, not working, I might add, like the
rest of us. Wow, he doesn't look like he's in
any back pain right there. To me, none whatsoever. Oh
there he is running on the beach. In many shots,
I see him lounging with Hawaiian beauty, scantily clad. Oh
(13:45):
there he is again, no problem, no indication of any
pain whatsoever. But that's a whole other can of worms.
Just before being gunned down, Thompson was urging executives to
focus on steps to eliminate out of pocket costs for
life saving drugs. He understood quote the public's frustration with
(14:10):
what they perceived as the company's actions, actively articulating a
vision that helped educate and help people understand what the
company was doing, and so on and so on.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But the point is he had been.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Urging Christina, urging the other healthcare executives to focus on
taking steps to get rid of out of pocket costs
for consumers.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
Yeah, so as smart as Luigi Mangioni thinks that he
is and other people think that he is in this
elaborate plan and how much thought went into it and
him being an engineer, he clearly wasn't very smart, right
because he didn't do any research about the exact version
that he was targeting, the one that he thought was
the face of this healthcare industry to blame for all
the costs and for essentially what they say costing people
(15:00):
lives and the healthcare industry having blood on their hands.
But this wasn't the man. This was the man that
was actually fighting for the little people. He infiltrated the system,
he worked hard, he got to the top, and then
he was fighting fighting for the very people that Luigimngioni
said he's fighting for. So he clearly didn't do his research,
he didn't do his homework, and he's not as smart
as he thinks.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
He is.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
The suspected killer of the United Healthcare CEO. A mess
is a cult following as law enforcement nationwide is on
high alert for coffeecats after wanted posters of other CEOs
are plastered across New York City cult schmalt.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Why would anyone celebrate or lionize Luigimngoni.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That's why we've got a shrink on today for that
and many other reasons. But aside from would be copycats,
one already emerging. In Florida, law enforcement honey in on
Luigi Mangioni's family.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (16:00):
The NYPD reveals they spoke to Luigi Mangoni's mother three
days after Brian Thompson was gunned down. The suspects parents
filed a missing person report on Mangoni in San Francisco,
and in San Francisco police sergeant believed they recognize Mangoni
and wanted photos from the NYPD. Mangoni's mother is called
in and while she doesn't identify her son in the photo,
talking about his mindset in the shooting, she said it
(16:22):
might be something she could see him doing.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, let me be clearer to Matt Mangino.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I'm going to go out on a limb and throw
him another legal question, Mangino. Under our jurisprudence, no one
is required to be a good samaritan. No one is
required to come forward with information. While we want them to,
they don't have to under the law. The one thing
(16:48):
they cannot do is lie or in some way obstruct
the course of justice. We're not the Chinese or Russian
communist state where you are forced to give information.
Speaker 7 (17:02):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So even if the mother, and I'm sure she did,
I was saying earlier today, Matt, I can spot my husband,
my daughter, my son at five hundred feet just by
the way they walk. You know, the mother knew this
was her son's picture.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, she knew it was him.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But under the law, she is not under any duty
to come forward with that information.
Speaker 9 (17:29):
Well, yeah, she's not under any duty to come forward
with that information. And she didn't identify him. But I
think she did make a statement that this would be
something that she believed he could do, So she wasn't
completely uncooperative.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And maybe let me get those words verbatim, Matt, because
I want you to analyze them and let me make
sure Christina double check me on this. But the exact
words I have that she the mother, Jim and Joani's
mother said are quote might be something she could see
(18:08):
him doing, might be something she could see him doing.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Don't have that right Christader, Absolutely right.
Speaker 6 (18:18):
I just looked with my notes.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, I wanted to read it verbatim because here, Matt Mangino,
the words matter. If she obstructed police in any way,
she can be charged. Her words must be parsed and
must be examined under microscope to make sure she didn't lit.
(18:40):
And that sounds very equivocal. It's very lukewarm. She's not
saying yeah, he did it. She's saying, well, it might
be something I could see him doing.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
But she doesn't give him up.
Speaker 9 (18:55):
No, she doesn't give him up. And you know, I
don't think that she could that point give him up.
You know, she looked at a photograph. She said she
was not sure that it was him, So obviously she
can't be unequivocal about him committing the crime if she doesn't.
If she's not sure that that photograph is.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Place Matt place, he's not my son, and I can
look at the side by side and tell it's him,
you know, Cheryl McCollum, I want to go to you
little known fact. Well into the early early wee hours
of the morning, Cheryl McCallum and I go on two
separate wild goose chases. After we learn after we first
(19:35):
learn that the Feds are in Atlanta, Cheryl goes in
the middle of the night to South Atlanta. I, in
the middle of the night go to North Atlanta, both
to stake out addresses we have been told are connected
to the New York Health Boss assassin Cheryl without identifying
(19:56):
who a potential suspect was at the time. That potential
suspect was related to someone formally.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
In law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And you and I spent many a long hour that
night discussing that the law enforcement would absolutely turn over
his relative, no question. But a mother ryl to you
blame her in your heart of hearts. Would you convict
a mother for not turning over her son.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
You know, it's funny you mentioned that because you and
I did have that conversation that the person that we
knew the road question, they would have made that call.
But here's what I said early on, and I'm going
to stand by it. You can take the mama out.
There's siblings, there's cousins, there's former co workers, there's former classmates.
They knew the mental state, they had reported him missing,
(20:51):
they saw the video, they saw the face exposed photographs.
I guarantee you there were phone calls and text messages
between all of these people trying to get in touch
with him. Where are you? Mama's words to me are
very clear when she says seeing him doing she saw
that video, she saw the photograph. She knew, they all knew.
Speaker 11 (21:15):
Private security guards have been called in to protect McDonald's
workers at in Altuna, Pennsylvania location as employees receive threats
since Luigi Man Johnny's arrest is the location. Police say
officers and locals involved in the arrest have been receiving threats,
and the Altuni Police Chief, Derek Slope says the department
takes all threats seriously. The restaurant is flooded with negative
(21:35):
reviews that Google is removing that include things such as
rats in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay? Is this correct? Christina Wyo.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The McDonald's employees have to hire security after they call
law enforcement to arrest a cold blooded assassin.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
How are they the band guy? When did they get
so best?
Speaker 6 (21:58):
Awkwards, It is absolutely unfathomable that you have to have
security at McDonald's because you reported a crime. Now people
have been going out there, They've been seeing two and
three security guards ahead of time out the employees there,
but also the officers in that town, in that county
have been getting threats. But there's this cult following surrounding him.
(22:19):
They all paint him out to be the hero. The
latest thing I've seen on social media as people are
photoshopping themselves in pictures next to pictures of Mangioni, saying
things like we just went on this wild trip to
Las Vegas. He's the best employee ever, and they're sort
of making fun of this whole situation. But there's nothing
funny about a father too getting gunned down in the
middle of Manhattan assassination style.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, you're absolutely right, Christina. As a matter of fact,
listen to this.
Speaker 11 (22:46):
In a shocking display from a crowd in Boston, cheers
a rub as pictures of Luigi Mangioni are shown on
a screen as the DJ plays Miley Cyrus he could
be the one. The event is Bop to the Top
Tourist Jingle Bop and is being held at a Big
Night live venue in Boston. The crowd has heard cheering
as photos of Luigi Mangoni, taken from his social media
(23:06):
accounts up here on the screen. The cheers get even
louder as Mangoni's recent booking photos are shown. Mangoni has
become something of a sex symbol since his arrest, and
a fundraiser has raised over one hundred thousand dollars for
his legal fees, with his lawyer claiming to receive offers
from people wanting to pay Mangoni's legal bills.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I hardly know what to say. He's the one by
Miley Cyrus cheers erupting people photoshopping themselves with MANGIONI why
is marder one somehow okay? Joining me is a guest
who has seen literally thousands of death scenes. Joining us
(23:47):
Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and professor forensics Jacksonville State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
of a hitting series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Scott,
you know, having lived through the murder of my fiance,
it almost didn't seem real until I came down off
(24:08):
the witness stand and I saw his bloody denim shirt
on council table that he was wearing that day on
the construction site where he was working. And for many
years after that, it seemed like a horrible blur. I
think part of the reason MINGIONI is seen as some
(24:32):
sort of modern day robin Hood is because people don't
understand what murder is and why should they?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Why should they? But could you explain what it is?
What the victim went through?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Lying there at six forty five a m. In the
dark on a sidewalk in New York, hearing traffic going by,
and realizing he's bleeding out dead, that he would never
see his children again.
Speaker 12 (25:08):
Yeah, you know, he takes this round to his back,
Nancy hollow point round. As a matter of fact, just
like the one I have here is a nine millimeter
that expands to twice its size and diameter. And as
it's expanding, it's ripping apart tissue in his chest cavity,
and I would wager that it probably clipped along. They
(25:29):
don't know what it's like, you know, as they're cheering
on at their concert or whatever the hell it was
with Miley Cyrus playing in the background. They don't know
what it's like to see somebody, you know, expiating blood
out of their mouth and their nose and it's it's frothy,
you know, it's frothy because it's filled with oxygen. And
(25:50):
he can't catch his breath any longer, and his life
slips away and the last thing he sees is his
filthy sidewalk in NYC. But yet they continue, they continue
on with all of this nonsense. This guy is supposed
to be what they call him, an anti capitalist. This
is the first thing, you know what, Nancy. And some
of these images I've seen him clad in like Columbia
(26:11):
Sports where I saw a picture early on from Hawaii
where he's wearing Rayman aviators. There was another shot of
him wearing probably Costa sunglasses. Gee, I don't see him
walking around in homemade him clothing where he's making his
own shoes and he's protesting about everything that's going on
out there. He's living the easy life, just like these
(26:32):
people at the concert. They have no idea what this
man endured and also more importantly, what his wife and
his kids are going to have to endure the following
years as we go through, and they're going to wind
up having to go to court too. Problemly.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know, I'm thinking about everything you're saying, Joe Scott,
and so many times I've wondered, I've wanted to believe.
I chose to believe that Keith, my fiance, didn't feel
any after the first bullet, But I don't think that
that's true. I think that he fell over in the
(27:09):
front seat of his truck as the perp continued to
shoot him.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Because he was.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Shot in the back, the head, the face, the neck,
he had to feel some of that and it's agonizing
to put it ephemistically, to think what he went through.
He was still alive, his heart beating when he got
(27:38):
finally from this.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Remote location to the hospital. What did he feel?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
How much did it hurt? Did he realize what was
happening to him? Did he think of me? Is there
anything I could have done? What do you think that
these boys are going to grow up wandering about their
dad dying on the sidewalk and doctor Bethany, I mean
(28:08):
they complete futility of gunning down Thompson, And now the
children have to grow up wondering why did this happen
to my dad for the rest of their lives, and
people are celebrating it.
Speaker 7 (28:26):
Nancy, the children and the public will have to come
to terms with the fact that this alleged crime did
not come from an altruistic place. If MANGIONI had wanted
to change the healthcare system. He could have become an organizer,
a politician. He could have helped change legislation. He could
have served on the board of the hospital that his
(28:46):
family donated a million dollars to. Again, I don't know
MANGIONI I've never seen him personally. But the public who
is idolizing him needs to place in context the personality
of somebody who could have anti social personality disorder. They
relate to others on the basis of power, not affection.
They like to torture, they like to humiliate. I would
(29:08):
think it would be fascinating to find to really locate
a girl, perhaps that he dated. How did he treat
that girl? Perhaps he put her on a pedestal at first,
and when she rejected him, he stopped her.
Speaker 8 (29:19):
I mean, I'm just I'm making this up. But I
want the public to understand that this is not just
somebody who thought somebody. This is somebody a full person
with a full identity, who lacks empathy, who's impulsive, who
really may well not care about anyone around him.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
He just committed the crime because it was exciting, not
because he was trying to help anybody out.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
To Tom Smith, following up on Joe Scott and doctor Bethany.
Tom Smith, former NYPD thirty years on these very streets, Okay,
star of the Goal Shields podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Tom.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think that people are just misguided. I don't think
that they're hateful or that they truly want murder to occur.
They have no reason to understand what it's like to
go to a homicide scene, the smell of coagulating blood,
the obvious signs of a struggle where the victim wanted
(30:21):
to live. They're not forced to think about it the
way we are when we get closing statements, when we
build a case, or in your case, when you investigate murders,
could you explain what a murder scene, what a murder
really is. It's not like in the movies or TV.
Speaker 10 (30:41):
No, it's horrible. It's the worst scene to go to
as a detective because every element of emotion is in there.
You know you want to get it done, but you're
feeling for the victim and you described it perfectly, and
it's not instant. A bunch of times in any homicide,
it's not instant. There is pain, they're struggling, there's thoughts,
(31:02):
and then from there you're dealing with the families and
notifications and interviews, which is always heartbreaking, especially like in
this case, you're dealing with children, and you're dealing with
a wife, and those emotions carry on throughout the investigation.
And these people who are just clamoring onto this have
no idea of the reality that homicides entail, and it's
(31:26):
evident by their statements and their actions, which are totally.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
The beach bomb. Life of alleged CEO slayer Luigi Mangioni
is revealed as roommates and friends speak out. The former
Ivy League student and software engineer gallivanting in Hawaii and
Japan before the murder.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Luigi mangione being celebrated all around the world.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
He is a killer?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
How did this guy I turn into a sex symbol?
I don't understand this, but what I do know is
that Brian Thompson died a painful death alone, face down
on a New York sidewalk, his family, his children and
wife far far away. So who is Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 11 (32:23):
Who is the real Luigi Mangioni? Is he a back
pain riddled patient or a free, willing beach bum living
a privileged life on a beach photos and comments from
friends living alongside Mangoni in Hawaii indicate the ACU shooter
had fun hanging out with beautiful women and tan buddies
at the two thousand dollars a month retreat surf break.
(32:43):
This image is a far cry from the man who
says his lower vertebrate is misaligned, reportedly by at least
half an inch. Mangoni has posted an extray of a
spine with multiple screws holding bones together. Mangoni says the
pain makes it impossible for him to have sex.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Christina Ohio, joining US national news anchor's Hill News Channel,
I've seen photos of Luigimi and Gioni practicing yoga tinder
matching with the yoga guru tickling multiple girls in a
hallway all at once, with them laughing giddily. He doesn't
(33:23):
look like he's in pain to me, And somehow we're
chalking off his actions because he was an intense Okay,
he's not an intense back.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Pain right there.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Helped me out here, Christina, what about his beach bum
life just before the assassination?
Speaker 6 (33:41):
Right well, in any case, no matter how much pain
you're and it's never okay to murder somebody. But according
to these pictures, according to everything that all of his
friends are saying, he did have a lot of fun.
He was surfing, he was on the beaches, he was
living in a high rise in Hawaii, And in fact,
right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to
Asia and he went on a backpacking trip. He actually
(34:02):
bragged about having the ability to fit everything that he
needed to live into one tiny little backpack. Because he
was talking about having this minimalist lifestyle like we talked
about on our last conversation. He is a walking, talking contradiction.
So is this whole back pain scenario a cover? Is
this an excuse for why he allegedly committed the crime
(34:24):
that he did. Is his real life? This party boy?
Is he a narcissist? What drove him? But we do
know that there are two different Luigi manngionies. And I
tell you what, if he's bragging about having everything he
needs in a tiny little backpack, then he's about to
have everything he needs in a fifteen x six cell,
because that's where if he gets convicted, he will be
spending the rest of his life exactly the way he
(34:46):
wanted to in a minimalist fashion.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Thoma samanth is joining me, former NYPD detective and co
host the Goal Shields podcast. Donia ever get tired of
entitled brat's why about the world and how awful it
is while they've got mommy's gold card. Yeah, he's got
everything he needs. It can fit in one backpack or
(35:10):
more a better put in one wallet, as long as
he's got his parents' money. This is a guy living
in a high rise in Honolulu, waking up to the
beach every morning. Did you wake up to a beach
for you this morning? Because I sure did not, living
in this luxury high rise with a group of other
beach bumps in a shared space. Photoed tickling girls in
(35:34):
the hallway, multiple girls at once. Every shot I see
of him, he's out in nature. He's not at work.
We keep hearing he quit his job. He was laid off. Gee,
I wonder why. Maybe the job interfered with the tickling.
I don't know, But don't you ever get exhausted with
(35:57):
all the whining and complaining, And oh my goodness, he
might as well bunked up with the wrists, the whining
and complaining. Tom Smith, we are talking about murder.
Speaker 10 (36:09):
It's one after another with these stories and thinking I
can get away with it because of who mom and
Dad are and the money that I have, And it
never ends up that way. But it continues to happen,
and these stories continue to come up with these crimes.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Cheryl McCallum, I assume you've seeing the beach bum photos
and the two thousand dollars a month high rise and
the Froli king in Honolulu.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Nancy is baffling. He is again a walking contradiction. Everything
about this kid. He makes you look right to only
force you to go left because it doesn't make any sense.
He's a tech expert that he uses a notebook. He
supposedly is against this wealthy ceo, yet he comes for money.
(36:56):
He now was going to hire this top notch attorney,
but people are sending him money for his defense. He
sits there and says, well, you know, I'm going to
make this ghost gun so I can get away with
this crime. Yet he shows his faith. His mom reports
him missing, even though you know he's this kid, this
balancing around from island to you know, big city and
(37:18):
all around. He is a walking contradiction. And it's one
of the reasons that I believe the DA is going
to be able to put together this story of just
how full of crap he is when he says, hey,
I picked this person to murder and didn't even look
him up properly.
Speaker 13 (37:35):
One of the most interesting things from the Luigi Mangiooni
case is the fact that there's a repetition of the
number two eighty six on the banner of his ex profile.
He has the Pokemon creature known as Breloum, which is
number two hundred and eighty six in the collection. Luigi
also has exactly two hundred and eighty six posts on
x According to somebody on Twitter, Luigi was found out
a McDonald's exactly two hundred and eighty six miles away
(37:58):
from the crime scene.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
That is just one of many many Luigi Mangioni conspiracies
on TikTok. That one tied in to Pokemon somehow straight out.
To Cheryl McCollum, a founder, director Cold Case Research Institute
and star of Zone seven, Cheryl, the conspiracy theories are
(38:21):
just starting, okay, oh, but it's spreading, it's infecting. As
a matter of fact, one University Pennsylvania professor.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Lauded Mangioni online.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Of course she's since taken that down and apologized. But
I don't get the lionization and the glorification of Luigi
Mangioni and all these far fetched theories, even going as
far as Pokemon.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Well, let's talk about hidden messages in one of the
issues with them. They can be misinterpreted. Two ABY six
is an angel number literally means prosperity in your finances.
In California criminal code, it's sodomy, So he might want
to be pretty clear about what he's talking about.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I guess what I'm getting at, and I want to
go to Joe Scott Morgan on this is the disconnect
between what Mangione allegedly did now facing brand new murder
one charge is very very rare in the state of
New York, what he actually did, and these far fetched, trivial,
(39:24):
frivolous conspiracy theories.
Speaker 12 (39:26):
Yeah, prediction. By the way, as with all these guys,
people are going to start getting tattoos of his face
on their body that they will wear forever and ever.
The reality is is that this guy planned and perpetrated
a homicide on a New York City street, and he
left behind two orphaned kids as a result of these
(39:48):
actions allegedly. All right, so my question is going back
to this idea that you know he's living this life.
Where's he getting all of this money from in order
to you know, you said he was unemployed, Nancy is
does he still get money from his family? How does
he afford to go out and create a ghost weapon?
(40:12):
I don't understand that, and not just a ghost weapon,
a suppressed ghost weapon. He acquires ammunition. He's living in
a place that's two thousand dollars a month, and you're
telling me that his mom doesn't know where he is.
She's you know, listed him as a missing person. I'm
not buying it. I think that there's a lot more
(40:32):
here relative to what his activities have been, and they
need to stay focused on the things that they can
prove in this case instead of all of this ancillary
nonsense that people are getting caught up in with this bozo.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
You know, I wouldn't want to waste his pain on anyone,
much less the TikTokers who are glorifying him. I wun't
want anyone to know the pain of the person you
love them being murdered, just shot down in cold blood
in a misdirected Robin Hood attempt. At this hour, we
(41:09):
are hearing that Mangioni is no longer going to fight
extradition from Pennsylvania. Why Maybe he wants a different CI
Correctional Institute. Maybe he thinks the conditions would be better
in New York. Maybe it's more convenient for his lawyers.
But who can get into the mind of an alleged killer.
(41:29):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Inciting fear the health Boss assassin Luigi Mangione's charges just
upgraded to murder one, claiming.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Terrorism was the root of the shooting.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This as Mom's chilling comment to law enforcement is revealed.
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Luigi Mangioni remains behind bars in a Pennsylvania prison as
he fights extradition to New York City Online. So called
fans of the killer clamor.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
For his release.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
They're not just clamoring now, authorities a fear a copycat crime.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
May be in the works.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
But this as Luigi Mangioni's charges now upgraded to murder one, listen.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
Luigi Manjoni, the defendant is charged with one count of
murder in the first degree and two counts of murder
in the second degree, including one count of murder in
the second degree as an act of terrorism, for the brazen, targeted,
and premeditated shooting of Brian Thompson, who, as you know,
(01:24):
was the CEO of United Healthcare.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Joining US and All Star panel experts to make sense
of what we are learning right now about the so
called health Boss assassin straight out to Christina Yo joining
US national news anchor with Salem News Channel. Christina, thank
you for being with us. Explain to us the new charges. Now,
the old charges were a out of Pennsylvania where he
(01:49):
was apprehended at the McDonald's. Okay, the murder did not
occur in Pennsylvania, so therefore he will not be facing
that charge in Pennsylvania. The new charge charges or originating
from a grand jury out of New York.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
What are they? Okay?
Speaker 6 (02:05):
So, now, as we just heard, Elvin Bragg, the District
Attorney in Manhattan, alongside NYPD commissed Jessica Tish announced these
new charges for New York. Number one one count of
murder one murder.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
In the first degree.
Speaker 6 (02:17):
He's facing two counts of murder, two murder in the
second degree, one with the underlying cause of terrorism. And
that's because Alvin Bragg said that this was premeditated, it
was an ideological crime, and it was committed in order
to strike fear, terror, shock attention into the residents of
New York and the tourists of New York as well.
(02:38):
So that's why those charges have been outlining the way
that they have. In addition to the murder one and
the murder two. He's facing a slew of other felony
charges too.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst out of La
author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
You can see her on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany, they
had to, and it's.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Very rare, especially for Bragg to take a a hard
crime fighting position.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Don't ask me why about that, but that said doctor Bethany.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
They had to because the lifeblood of Manhattan is tourism.
What tourists wants to go see Hamilton or whatever if
they think they're going to get gunned down by an
assassinite Luigi MANGIONI, Oh no way, are.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
You going to take your children to Times Square?
Speaker 7 (03:25):
You know, Nancy, not even just gunned down, but somebody
who had the means to do this in such a
crowded area. Somebody who stayed at a hostel, somebody who
carried a bike battery with him, someone who discarded a.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Backpack in Central Park. This is where women.
Speaker 8 (03:41):
And men, families take their children to play.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
And you know what, Nancy, I'm going to anticipate there
are going to be a lot of tourists flocking to
the scene where this crime took place, so we're going
to have both a ghoulish quality of crime watching in
the city and then families who want to stay away.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Well put.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know, Yo just explained the most recent development in
the Mangioni case.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
We say a bit more about the charges. They include
one count of murder in the first degree as a
killing in furtheres of terrorism, two counts of murdering the
second degree, one charging of the killing was done as
an act of terrorism, and the second pertaining to the
fact that the killing was intentional. The maximum penalty possible
(04:30):
for murdering the first degree and murdering the second degree
is an active terrorism is life without parole. The maximum
penalty for murdering the second degree is twenty five years
to life.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Joining me high profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former felony prosecutor,
author of the Executioner's Toll. Matt, thank you for being
with us now. I don't want to go to Inside
Baseball to deafcom four on this, but when you say
the murder one charge is based on terrorism and intentional killing,
(05:02):
that's the second theory of murder one murder two is
also an intentional killing. Really, the only difference is who
is the victim when it comes to intent as it
relates to murder one versus murder two.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Agreed, disagree?
Speaker 9 (05:16):
Well, I agree, but Nancy, I'm a little suspect of
the terrorism aspect of this. I don't see how this
is an act of terrorism. Certainly, you know it intimidates
the community, But any violent crime in downtown Manhattan, you know,
intimidates the community, makes people fearful. I don't see that
(05:40):
this is trying to influence the government policy in any way.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So I think the second verse, same as the first,
to state can't prove it. You don't think people are
terrorized by somebody like MANGIONI wandering around Time Square, wandering
around the city, lying in wait. We now know he
stood out there in the cold over an hour waiting
(06:06):
for the victim to show up. You know what, Listen
to brag.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
This was a frightening, well planned, targeted murder that was
intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation. It incurred
in one of the most bustling parts of our city,
threatening the safety of local residents and tourists alike. Commuters,
and business people just starting out on their day.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Back to you, Mangino, question, you're saying the state can't
prove the terrorism aspect of the murder one charge. Now,
murder one in New York must include aggravating circumstances or
additional circumstances such as the victim was in law enforcement,
the victim was a judge, the victim was the first responder,
(06:55):
murder for hire, or inciting fear in furtherance terrorism. I'm
sure you, as a family prosecutor must have shown aggravating
circumstances before.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
It's not that hard.
Speaker 9 (07:07):
Well, yeah, I have, particularly in my jurisdiction in death
penalty cases. But again, I think that that the terrorism
charge is a stretch here. You know, it's any homicide,
any violent crime that's out in the public square in
New York City incites fear and potential terrorists and other
(07:28):
crime rates it's themselves incite fear in people. So I
think the terrorism charge, Man.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Gino, I'm sorry, let me just check my ut. Yeah, okay,
that's working. Did you just compare the cold blooded will
planned execution of the healthcare boss to crime rates going
up across the country.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Are you saying you know what matt eh cut. Here's Mike.
Let me go to Tom Smith.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Tom Smith joining me, a former NYPD detective over thirty
years now, the star of the gold Shields podcast. Tom,
could you please enlighten Matthew Mangino. Okay, I've checked his record.
He's a very successful former felony prosecutor. I don't know
what he's saying. I don't know what's coming out of
his mouth, but to say people won't go to Times
(08:15):
Square and visit New York because of rising crime rates,
that's bs.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
New York is thronged.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Okay, But this this they had to do. They had
to come down with this charge for the very reason
of tourists, of the well being of.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
The citizens, of the credibility.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
If Brad can try to get credibility with the citizens.
They had to do a murder one charge and gunning
somebody down in cold blood because of a titular reason.
The title like, you go down to judge because they're
a judge. You go down a cop because he she
is a cop. You gun down this guy, Ryan Thompson
(09:00):
because he's the head of United Healthcare. That is terrorism.
There's a big difference. I've gone taking the children to
go see plays and go skating at Rockefeller Center and
woman without fear of terrorism.
Speaker 10 (09:15):
No, I think it's a correct charge because, first of all,
it's precedent setting for any possible copycats out there.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Now.
Speaker 10 (09:23):
The highest charge that New York can bring was brought
against him, and it did intimidate the public, and not
only just the public in general, every CEO in his
country felt fear and was frightened by this and took
steps security wise with then their families. Not just in
the healthcare system, but every CEO in this country was
(09:44):
now under the intimidation of a murder like that. So
I think going forward, it's the right charge, and it's
going to have a ripple effect with any possible copycats
that He's going.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
To go on.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining me.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Cheryl McCollum, founded director of Cold Case Research Institute and
star of the hit series Zone seven podcasts, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
What in the Hey?
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Tom is absolutely right? Every single CEO in the Fortune
five hundred industries have changed the way they do business.
He had a homemade weapon that he kept because I
believe he wasn't finished, and he also talked about bombs
he also had specific, you know, a target, but the
fact that he would make weapons, talk about other weapons
(10:42):
of mass destruction. It again reminds me of our Olympic
park bombing. We had one murder, one Alic Hophorn, but
those games shut down, athletes went home. Every single Olympics
since then has changed the way they do business. This
single murder, this single assassination, is absolutely an act of terrorism.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
You know, it's very interesting as a way that Matthew
Mangino is trying to say that terror was not caused.
Cheryl McCollum, you just pointed out that healthcare industry execs
across the country and in fact, the healthcare industry itself
(11:28):
is changing the way it does business.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
What did you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (11:32):
You know, you've got CEOs now, not just in healthcare.
But is there going to be some crackpot that says, hey,
airlines are monopoly, car manufacturers are monopoly. Who's next? They
have no choice but to go to their security heads
and say, hey, how can I be safe? And they've
got to maintain a level of security not just for
(11:53):
themselves but for their family. It's a different day than
it was cadays ago.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know, I want to go back to Christina Oio
joining US national news anchor. Isn't it true, Christina that months,
just a few months before he was gunned down in
the street, Brian Thompson issued a very chilling warning to
the United Healthcare executives about the way that the industry
(12:21):
was portrayed and actually pushed measures to change the way
healthcare was working.
Speaker 6 (12:28):
That's absolutely right, and we found that out just recently
by the parent company of United Healthcare. He was actually,
Brian Thompson was actually a good guy, quote unquote who
was working to fix things, who actually felt the pain
of the people who were getting their claims denied or
having to pay these enormous deductibles and sky high monthly premiums,
and he was trying to bring awareness to it. He
(12:50):
was trying to fix it, and he was actually trying
to enact change across the entire healthcare industry, at least
that out of United Healthcare, to sort of reverse the
problems the issues that people were having with the healthcare system.
So it appears as though Luigi Mangioni targeted, allegedly targeted
and killed, allegedly killed the wrong man.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
You know, it's really bizarre.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It seems like he got at bass ackwards while he
was lying on the beach in Hawaii hatching his murder plan,
and picks out Brian Thompson, Christina, and I want to
get these words exactly correct.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Thompson had just.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
In a very eerie Oh there he is lounging without
a shirt on, not working, I might add, like the
rest of us. Wow, he doesn't look like he's in
any back pain right there. To me, none whatsoever. Oh
there he is running on the beach. In many shots,
I see him lounging with Hawaiian beauty, scantily clad. Oh
(13:45):
there he is again, no problem, no indication of any
pain whatsoever. But that's a whole other can of worms.
Just before being gunned down, Thompson was urging executives to
focus on steps to eliminate out of pocket costs for
life saving drugs. He understood quote the public's frustration with
(14:10):
what they perceived as the company's actions, actively articulating a
vision that helped educate and help people understand what the
company was doing, and so on and so on.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But the point is he had been.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Urging Christina, urging the other healthcare executives to focus on
taking steps to get rid of out of pocket costs
for consumers.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
Yeah, so as smart as Luigi Mangioni thinks that he
is and other people think that he is in this
elaborate plan and how much thought went into it and
him being an engineer, he clearly wasn't very smart, right
because he didn't do any research about the exact version
that he was targeting, the one that he thought was
the face of this healthcare industry to blame for all
the costs and for essentially what they say costing people
(15:00):
lives and the healthcare industry having blood on their hands.
But this wasn't the man. This was the man that
was actually fighting for the little people. He infiltrated the system,
he worked hard, he got to the top, and then
he was fighting fighting for the very people that Luigimngioni
said he's fighting for. So he clearly didn't do his research,
he didn't do his homework, and he's not as smart
as he thinks.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
He is.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
The suspected killer of the United Healthcare CEO. A mess
is a cult following as law enforcement nationwide is on
high alert for coffeecats after wanted posters of other CEOs
are plastered across New York City cult schmalt.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Why would anyone celebrate or lionize Luigimngoni.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That's why we've got a shrink on today for that
and many other reasons. But aside from would be copycats,
one already emerging. In Florida, law enforcement honey in on
Luigi Mangioni's family.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (16:00):
The NYPD reveals they spoke to Luigi Mangoni's mother three
days after Brian Thompson was gunned down. The suspects parents
filed a missing person report on Mangoni in San Francisco,
and in San Francisco police sergeant believed they recognize Mangoni
and wanted photos from the NYPD. Mangoni's mother is called
in and while she doesn't identify her son in the photo,
talking about his mindset in the shooting, she said it
(16:22):
might be something she could see him doing.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Okay, let me be clearer to Matt Mangino.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I'm going to go out on a limb and throw
him another legal question, Mangino. Under our jurisprudence, no one
is required to be a good samaritan. No one is
required to come forward with information. While we want them to,
they don't have to under the law. The one thing
(16:48):
they cannot do is lie or in some way obstruct
the course of justice. We're not the Chinese or Russian
communist state where you are forced to give information.
Speaker 7 (17:02):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So even if the mother, and I'm sure she did,
I was saying earlier today, Matt, I can spot my husband,
my daughter, my son at five hundred feet just by
the way they walk. You know, the mother knew this
was her son's picture.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, she knew it was him.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
But under the law, she is not under any duty
to come forward with that information.
Speaker 9 (17:29):
Well, yeah, she's not under any duty to come forward
with that information. And she didn't identify him. But I
think she did make a statement that this would be
something that she believed he could do, So she wasn't
completely uncooperative.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And maybe let me get those words verbatim, Matt, because
I want you to analyze them and let me make
sure Christina double check me on this. But the exact
words I have that she the mother, Jim and Joani's
mother said are quote might be something she could see
(18:08):
him doing, might be something she could see him doing.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Don't have that right Christader, Absolutely right.
Speaker 6 (18:18):
I just looked with my notes.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, I wanted to read it verbatim because here, Matt Mangino,
the words matter. If she obstructed police in any way,
she can be charged. Her words must be parsed and
must be examined under microscope to make sure she didn't lit.
(18:40):
And that sounds very equivocal. It's very lukewarm. She's not
saying yeah, he did it. She's saying, well, it might
be something I could see him doing.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
But she doesn't give him up.
Speaker 9 (18:55):
No, she doesn't give him up. And you know, I
don't think that she could that point give him up.
You know, she looked at a photograph. She said she
was not sure that it was him, So obviously she
can't be unequivocal about him committing the crime if she doesn't.
If she's not sure that that photograph is.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Place Matt place, he's not my son, and I can
look at the side by side and tell it's him,
you know, Cheryl McCollum, I want to go to you
little known fact. Well into the early early wee hours
of the morning, Cheryl McCallum and I go on two
separate wild goose chases. After we learn after we first
(19:35):
learn that the Feds are in Atlanta, Cheryl goes in
the middle of the night to South Atlanta. I, in
the middle of the night go to North Atlanta, both
to stake out addresses we have been told are connected
to the New York Health Boss assassin Cheryl without identifying
(19:56):
who a potential suspect was at the time. That potential
suspect was related to someone formally.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
In law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
And you and I spent many a long hour that
night discussing that the law enforcement would absolutely turn over
his relative, no question. But a mother ryl to you
blame her in your heart of hearts. Would you convict
a mother for not turning over her son.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
You know, it's funny you mentioned that because you and
I did have that conversation that the person that we
knew the road question, they would have made that call.
But here's what I said early on, and I'm going
to stand by it. You can take the mama out.
There's siblings, there's cousins, there's former co workers, there's former classmates.
They knew the mental state, they had reported him missing,
(20:51):
they saw the video, they saw the face exposed photographs.
I guarantee you there were phone calls and text messages
between all of these people trying to get in touch
with him. Where are you? Mama's words to me are
very clear when she says seeing him doing she saw
that video, she saw the photograph. She knew, they all knew.
Speaker 11 (21:15):
Private security guards have been called in to protect McDonald's
workers at in Altuna, Pennsylvania location as employees receive threats
since Luigi Man Johnny's arrest is the location. Police say
officers and locals involved in the arrest have been receiving threats,
and the Altuni Police Chief, Derek Slope says the department
takes all threats seriously. The restaurant is flooded with negative
(21:35):
reviews that Google is removing that include things such as
rats in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay? Is this correct? Christina Wyo.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The McDonald's employees have to hire security after they call
law enforcement to arrest a cold blooded assassin.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
How are they the band guy? When did they get
so best?
Speaker 6 (21:58):
Awkwards, It is absolutely unfathomable that you have to have
security at McDonald's because you reported a crime. Now people
have been going out there, They've been seeing two and
three security guards ahead of time out the employees there,
but also the officers in that town, in that county
have been getting threats. But there's this cult following surrounding him.
(22:19):
They all paint him out to be the hero. The
latest thing I've seen on social media as people are
photoshopping themselves in pictures next to pictures of Mangioni, saying
things like we just went on this wild trip to
Las Vegas. He's the best employee ever, and they're sort
of making fun of this whole situation. But there's nothing
funny about a father too getting gunned down in the
middle of Manhattan assassination style.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Well, you're absolutely right, Christina. As a matter of fact,
listen to this.
Speaker 11 (22:46):
In a shocking display from a crowd in Boston, cheers
a rub as pictures of Luigi Mangioni are shown on
a screen as the DJ plays Miley Cyrus he could
be the one. The event is Bop to the Top
Tourist Jingle Bop and is being held at a Big
Night live venue in Boston. The crowd has heard cheering
as photos of Luigi Mangoni, taken from his social media
(23:06):
accounts up here on the screen. The cheers get even
louder as Mangoni's recent booking photos are shown. Mangoni has
become something of a sex symbol since his arrest, and
a fundraiser has raised over one hundred thousand dollars for
his legal fees, with his lawyer claiming to receive offers
from people wanting to pay Mangoni's legal bills.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I hardly know what to say. He's the one by
Miley Cyrus cheers erupting people photoshopping themselves with MANGIONI why
is marder one somehow okay? Joining me is a guest
who has seen literally thousands of death scenes. Joining us
(23:47):
Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and professor forensics Jacksonville State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
of a hitting series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Scott,
you know, having lived through the murder of my fiance,
it almost didn't seem real until I came down off
(24:08):
the witness stand and I saw his bloody denim shirt
on council table that he was wearing that day on
the construction site where he was working. And for many
years after that, it seemed like a horrible blur. I
think part of the reason MINGIONI is seen as some
(24:32):
sort of modern day robin Hood is because people don't
understand what murder is and why should they?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Why should they? But could you explain what it is?
What the victim went through?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Lying there at six forty five a m. In the
dark on a sidewalk in New York, hearing traffic going by,
and realizing he's bleeding out dead, that he would never
see his children again.
Speaker 12 (25:08):
Yeah, you know, he takes this round to his back,
Nancy hollow point round. As a matter of fact, just
like the one I have here is a nine millimeter
that expands to twice its size and diameter. And as
it's expanding, it's ripping apart tissue in his chest cavity,
and I would wager that it probably clipped along. They
(25:29):
don't know what it's like, you know, as they're cheering
on at their concert or whatever the hell it was
with Miley Cyrus playing in the background. They don't know
what it's like to see somebody, you know, expiating blood
out of their mouth and their nose and it's it's frothy,
you know, it's frothy because it's filled with oxygen. And
(25:50):
he can't catch his breath any longer, and his life
slips away and the last thing he sees is his
filthy sidewalk in NYC. But yet they continue, they continue
on with all of this nonsense. This guy is supposed
to be what they call him, an anti capitalist. This
is the first thing, you know what, Nancy. And some
of these images I've seen him clad in like Columbia
(26:11):
Sports where I saw a picture early on from Hawaii
where he's wearing Rayman aviators. There was another shot of
him wearing probably Costa sunglasses. Gee, I don't see him
walking around in homemade him clothing where he's making his
own shoes and he's protesting about everything that's going on
out there. He's living the easy life, just like these
(26:32):
people at the concert. They have no idea what this
man endured and also more importantly, what his wife and
his kids are going to have to endure the following
years as we go through, and they're going to wind
up having to go to court too. Problemly.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know, I'm thinking about everything you're saying, Joe Scott,
and so many times I've wondered, I've wanted to believe.
I chose to believe that Keith, my fiance, didn't feel
any after the first bullet, But I don't think that
that's true. I think that he fell over in the
(27:09):
front seat of his truck as the perp continued to
shoot him.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Because he was.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Shot in the back, the head, the face, the neck,
he had to feel some of that and it's agonizing
to put it ephemistically, to think what he went through.
He was still alive, his heart beating when he got
(27:38):
finally from this.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Remote location to the hospital. What did he feel?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
How much did it hurt? Did he realize what was
happening to him? Did he think of me? Is there
anything I could have done? What do you think that
these boys are going to grow up wandering about their
dad dying on the sidewalk and doctor Bethany, I mean
(28:08):
they complete futility of gunning down Thompson, And now the
children have to grow up wondering why did this happen
to my dad for the rest of their lives, and
people are celebrating it.
Speaker 7 (28:26):
Nancy, the children and the public will have to come
to terms with the fact that this alleged crime did
not come from an altruistic place. If MANGIONI had wanted
to change the healthcare system. He could have become an organizer,
a politician. He could have helped change legislation. He could
have served on the board of the hospital that his
(28:46):
family donated a million dollars to. Again, I don't know
MANGIONI I've never seen him personally. But the public who
is idolizing him needs to place in context the personality
of somebody who could have anti social personality disorder. They
relate to others on the basis of power, not affection.
They like to torture, they like to humiliate. I would
(29:08):
think it would be fascinating to find to really locate
a girl, perhaps that he dated. How did he treat
that girl? Perhaps he put her on a pedestal at first,
and when she rejected him, he stopped her.
Speaker 8 (29:19):
I mean, I'm just I'm making this up. But I
want the public to understand that this is not just
somebody who thought somebody. This is somebody a full person
with a full identity, who lacks empathy, who's impulsive, who
really may well not care about anyone around him.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
He just committed the crime because it was exciting, not
because he was trying to help anybody out.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
To Tom Smith, following up on Joe Scott and doctor Bethany.
Tom Smith, former NYPD thirty years on these very streets, Okay,
star of the Goal Shields podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Tom.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think that people are just misguided. I don't think
that they're hateful or that they truly want murder to occur.
They have no reason to understand what it's like to
go to a homicide scene, the smell of coagulating blood,
the obvious signs of a struggle where the victim wanted
(30:21):
to live. They're not forced to think about it the
way we are when we get closing statements, when we
build a case, or in your case, when you investigate murders,
could you explain what a murder scene, what a murder
really is. It's not like in the movies or TV.
Speaker 10 (30:41):
No, it's horrible. It's the worst scene to go to
as a detective because every element of emotion is in there.
You know you want to get it done, but you're
feeling for the victim and you described it perfectly, and
it's not instant. A bunch of times in any homicide,
it's not instant. There is pain, they're struggling, there's thoughts,
(31:02):
and then from there you're dealing with the families and
notifications and interviews, which is always heartbreaking, especially like in
this case, you're dealing with children, and you're dealing with
a wife, and those emotions carry on throughout the investigation.
And these people who are just clamoring onto this have
no idea of the reality that homicides entail, and it's
(31:26):
evident by their statements and their actions, which are totally.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
The beach bomb. Life of alleged CEO slayer Luigi Mangioni
is revealed as roommates and friends speak out. The former
Ivy League student and software engineer gallivanting in Hawaii and
Japan before the murder.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Luigi mangione being celebrated all around the world.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
He is a killer?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
How did this guy I turn into a sex symbol?
I don't understand this, but what I do know is
that Brian Thompson died a painful death alone, face down
on a New York sidewalk, his family, his children and
wife far far away. So who is Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 11 (32:23):
Who is the real Luigi Mangioni? Is he a back
pain riddled patient or a free, willing beach bum living
a privileged life on a beach photos and comments from
friends living alongside Mangoni in Hawaii indicate the ACU shooter
had fun hanging out with beautiful women and tan buddies
at the two thousand dollars a month retreat surf break.
(32:43):
This image is a far cry from the man who
says his lower vertebrate is misaligned, reportedly by at least
half an inch. Mangoni has posted an extray of a
spine with multiple screws holding bones together. Mangoni says the
pain makes it impossible for him to have sex.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Christina Ohio, joining US national news anchor's Hill News Channel,
I've seen photos of Luigimi and Gioni practicing yoga tinder
matching with the yoga guru tickling multiple girls in a
hallway all at once, with them laughing giddily. He doesn't
(33:23):
look like he's in pain to me, And somehow we're
chalking off his actions because he was an intense Okay,
he's not an intense back.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Pain right there.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Helped me out here, Christina, what about his beach bum
life just before the assassination?
Speaker 6 (33:41):
Right well, in any case, no matter how much pain
you're and it's never okay to murder somebody. But according
to these pictures, according to everything that all of his
friends are saying, he did have a lot of fun.
He was surfing, he was on the beaches, he was
living in a high rise in Hawaii, And in fact,
right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to
Asia and he went on a backpacking trip. He actually
(34:02):
bragged about having the ability to fit everything that he
needed to live into one tiny little backpack. Because he
was talking about having this minimalist lifestyle like we talked
about on our last conversation. He is a walking, talking contradiction.
So is this whole back pain scenario a cover? Is
this an excuse for why he allegedly committed the crime
(34:24):
that he did. Is his real life? This party boy?
Is he a narcissist? What drove him? But we do
know that there are two different Luigi manngionies. And I
tell you what, if he's bragging about having everything he
needs in a tiny little backpack, then he's about to
have everything he needs in a fifteen x six cell,
because that's where if he gets convicted, he will be
spending the rest of his life exactly the way he
(34:46):
wanted to in a minimalist fashion.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Thoma samanth is joining me, former NYPD detective and co
host the Goal Shields podcast. Donia ever get tired of
entitled brat's why about the world and how awful it
is while they've got mommy's gold card. Yeah, he's got
everything he needs. It can fit in one backpack or
(35:10):
more a better put in one wallet, as long as
he's got his parents' money. This is a guy living
in a high rise in Honolulu, waking up to the
beach every morning. Did you wake up to a beach
for you this morning? Because I sure did not, living
in this luxury high rise with a group of other
beach bumps in a shared space. Photoed tickling girls in
(35:34):
the hallway, multiple girls at once. Every shot I see
of him, he's out in nature. He's not at work.
We keep hearing he quit his job. He was laid off. Gee,
I wonder why. Maybe the job interfered with the tickling.
I don't know, But don't you ever get exhausted with
(35:57):
all the whining and complaining, And oh my goodness, he
might as well bunked up with the wrists, the whining
and complaining. Tom Smith, we are talking about murder.
Speaker 10 (36:09):
It's one after another with these stories and thinking I
can get away with it because of who mom and
Dad are and the money that I have, And it
never ends up that way. But it continues to happen,
and these stories continue to come up with these crimes.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Cheryl McCallum, I assume you've seeing the beach bum photos
and the two thousand dollars a month high rise and
the Froli king in Honolulu.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Nancy is baffling. He is again a walking contradiction. Everything
about this kid. He makes you look right to only
force you to go left because it doesn't make any sense.
He's a tech expert that he uses a notebook. He
supposedly is against this wealthy ceo, yet he comes for money.
(36:56):
He now was going to hire this top notch attorney,
but people are sending him money for his defense. He
sits there and says, well, you know, I'm going to
make this ghost gun so I can get away with
this crime. Yet he shows his faith. His mom reports
him missing, even though you know he's this kid, this
balancing around from island to you know, big city and
(37:18):
all around. He is a walking contradiction. And it's one
of the reasons that I believe the DA is going
to be able to put together this story of just
how full of crap he is when he says, hey,
I picked this person to murder and didn't even look
him up properly.
Speaker 13 (37:35):
One of the most interesting things from the Luigi Mangiooni
case is the fact that there's a repetition of the
number two eighty six on the banner of his ex profile.
He has the Pokemon creature known as Breloum, which is
number two hundred and eighty six in the collection. Luigi
also has exactly two hundred and eighty six posts on
x According to somebody on Twitter, Luigi was found out
a McDonald's exactly two hundred and eighty six miles away
(37:58):
from the crime scene.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
That is just one of many many Luigi Mangioni conspiracies
on TikTok. That one tied in to Pokemon somehow straight out.
To Cheryl McCollum, a founder, director Cold Case Research Institute
and star of Zone seven, Cheryl, the conspiracy theories are
(38:21):
just starting, okay, oh, but it's spreading, it's infecting. As
a matter of fact, one University Pennsylvania professor.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Lauded Mangioni online.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Of course she's since taken that down and apologized. But
I don't get the lionization and the glorification of Luigi
Mangioni and all these far fetched theories, even going as
far as Pokemon.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Well, let's talk about hidden messages in one of the
issues with them. They can be misinterpreted. Two ABY six
is an angel number literally means prosperity in your finances.
In California criminal code, it's sodomy, So he might want
to be pretty clear about what he's talking about.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I guess what I'm getting at, and I want to
go to Joe Scott Morgan on this is the disconnect
between what Mangione allegedly did now facing brand new murder
one charge is very very rare in the state of
New York, what he actually did, and these far fetched, trivial,
(39:24):
frivolous conspiracy theories.
Speaker 12 (39:26):
Yeah, prediction. By the way, as with all these guys,
people are going to start getting tattoos of his face
on their body that they will wear forever and ever.
The reality is is that this guy planned and perpetrated
a homicide on a New York City street, and he
left behind two orphaned kids as a result of these
(39:48):
actions allegedly. All right, so my question is going back
to this idea that you know he's living this life.
Where's he getting all of this money from in order
to you know, you said he was unemployed, Nancy is
does he still get money from his family? How does
he afford to go out and create a ghost weapon?
(40:12):
I don't understand that, and not just a ghost weapon,
a suppressed ghost weapon. He acquires ammunition. He's living in
a place that's two thousand dollars a month, and you're
telling me that his mom doesn't know where he is.
She's you know, listed him as a missing person. I'm
not buying it. I think that there's a lot more
(40:32):
here relative to what his activities have been, and they
need to stay focused on the things that they can
prove in this case instead of all of this ancillary
nonsense that people are getting caught up in with this bozo.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
You know, I wouldn't want to waste his pain on anyone,
much less the TikTokers who are glorifying him. I wun't
want anyone to know the pain of the person you
love them being murdered, just shot down in cold blood
in a misdirected Robin Hood attempt. At this hour, we
(41:09):
are hearing that Mangioni is no longer going to fight
extradition from Pennsylvania. Why Maybe he wants a different CI
Correctional Institute. Maybe he thinks the conditions would be better
in New York. Maybe it's more convenient for his lawyers.
But who can get into the mind of an alleged killer.
(41:29):
Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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