December 11, 2024 • 41 mins
Arraigned in Pennsylvania for five crimes, Luigi Mangione is charged with Forgery, carrying a gun without a license, falsely identifying himself to law enforcement, tampering with records or identification, and possessing instruments of crime.
Luigi Mangione has a 262-word, handwritten manifesto on him when he was arrested, and in it he mentions a "spiral notebook". CNN is reporting that in the spiral notebook, Mangione was keeping a to-do-list leading up the the murder of CEO Brian Thompson, he is thinking about using a bomb to kill Thompson instead of shooting him in public. Mangione allegedly decides against bombing the building because 'it could kill innocents' and decides to shoot Thompson.
Decked out in a bright orange County department of corrections jumpsuit, Luigi Mangione comes unglued as he struggles with deputies as he gets out of the patrol car screaming toward a group of media gathered to watch him arrive at the courthouse, "it's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience". Flanked by six deputies, the suspect is then pushed inside the courthouse.
Mangione is shacked at the waist and ankles for his court appearance. At one point, Mangione tries to interject while his attorney Thomas Dickey is arguing for bail, addressing the $8,000 US dollars and $2,000 in foreign currency found with Mangione at his arrest. Dickey turn to his client, instructing, his client, "Don't say a word."
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY:
- Guy D’Andrea - Former Prosecutor, Attorney at Laffey Bucci D’Andrea Reich & Ryan
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Tom Ruskin - Private Investigator, President of the CMP Protective and Investigative Group, Inc., Former New York City Police Detective Investigator, cmp-group.com, @tomruskin
- Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel, website: www.ChristinaAguayoNews.Com, Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNews,
- Dave Mack - Crime Online Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the so called Ivy League
assassins plan to bomb Manhattan emerges along with an evil
to do list. The mask slips off the prep school
(00:20):
grad as he bears his teeth in court and now
fighting extradition. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us for just over five days.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Our NYPD investigators comb through thousands of hours of video,
followed up on hundreds of tips, and processed every bit
of forensic evidence DNA fingerprints, IP addresses, and so much more.
To tighten the net, we deployed drones, canine units, and
(00:53):
scuba divers. We leveraged the Domain Awareness System ARGUS cameras
and conducted aviation canvases. And our detectives also went door
to door interviewing potential witnesses and doing the good old
fashioned police work that our investigators are famous for.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
And Police Commissioner Jessica Tish was right. It worked. Listen.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
A man was taking it to custody today at Altuda,
Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tais to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York and.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Now the battle moves to the court room fighting extradition.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, I mean he was either in a way or
a challenge extradition. There's a pretty clear cut process if
he files his petition for habeas corpus. We're in the
process now security a governor's weren't from the state of
New York, and we'll be prepared when the judge schedules
is the hearing has to do what's necessary to get
him back to New York.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That from our friends at Forbes with me in all
star panels straight out to special guests joining us. Christina Ohio,
national news anchor Sale News Channel, Christina, what is the latest?
We saw the mask slipping yesterday as Mangioni was taken
into court, screaming and baring his teeth, his lawyer having
(02:24):
to quiet him in court. What happened?
Speaker 5 (02:27):
I think this is the first time that we've seen
any real emotion from Mangioni. Right, he has been calm
his first arrest. He was shown without emotion in all
of his mugshots, his pictures. He seems very emotion less.
So this is very telling his reaction. You see it
there on the screen. He's angry, he's scowling, and he's
sending a message out to apparently the journalists that are
(02:48):
behind something to the effect of it being completely unjust,
of this being a lived experience, of this being an
insult to the intelligence of the American people. And it's
telling in the fact that he is very victied in
his beliefs. He's very passionate about what he believes in.
And we see that you said the mask slipped in
the courtroom and he was attempting to tell his attorney
(03:10):
something really insignificant about him purchasing the mask. So it
also tells us that he's focused on these tiny, little
insignificant things such as whether the charity bag was a
waterproof where the eight thousand dollars was planted in his
first court hearing, and he's not really focused.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
On the gravity of the situation of what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Could you slow down just a moment. I want to
hear that again. You got to me drinking out of
the fire hydright here. That's a lot of information I
want everybody to hear what you just said, what he
was saying in court, and I've got some video for him,
going to show you just a moment, Christina, but repeat
well in that first court.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Here, and he was focused on insignificant things. He was
focused on that farity bag and wanting to clarify that
it was a waterproof bag instead. He's also focused on
the eight thousand dollars that police found on him in cash,
saying that it was planted there. And he's not really
fling on the main issue at hand, which is he's
staring down the barrel of a murdered to charge. This
(04:05):
is a heavy situation. This is a heavy charge. And
then he's shouting his messages. The first sign of emotion
that we see, and he's showing us that he's very
convicted in his beliefs. He's very passionate. That's the only
sign of emotion that we saw. And then in the extradition,
hearing again something super insignificant, whether or not he purchased
(04:25):
the blue mask that he was wearing.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Let's take a look at Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 7 (04:36):
He experience.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Lived experience that from our friends at Des Moines Register.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
Listen when Luigi Mangoni arrives for his extradition. Hearing he's agitated,
physically struggling with deputies and shouting at gathered media in court.
He is surrounded by six Blair County deputies to prevent
any more physical or verbal outbursts. As Mangione he is
leaving the courthouse, he seems under control, calm and silent
as he leaves the courthouse headed back to jail.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
We shows you a tiny bit of MANGIONI blowing up,
screaming at everyone, staying that law enforcement, the police are
quote completely out of touch, that it's quote an insult
to the intelligence of the American people and lived experience.
I find it really interesting. I'm gonna have to go
to a shrinking just a moment. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us.
(05:27):
He is focusing on clarifying that there is a waterproof
bag and that the money about ten grand plus and
foreign currency was planted, like the beat cop in Altoona
had some foreign currency on him to plant. Okay, whatever,
but I want you to see this in full. It's
a long version of what we just played you as
(05:57):
an insult people experienced straight out to longtime colleague forensic
expert by the way from our friends at Des Moines Register.
Thank you for that. Cheryl McCollums joining me, forensic expert
(06:20):
and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of
Zone seven podcast. Cheryl, thank you for being with us.
You know what I'm looking at. What me and GEONI
is saying, the so called Ivy League assassin reminds me
of somebody you and I know very well. I was
at the Olympic bombing. You worked on the Olympic bombing
(06:40):
along with me, Eric Rudolph then setting off other bombs
in tandem. He thought he was in the right too.
And then of course we've got Ted Kazinski, we've got
Timothy McVeigh. All of them think they're the good guy.
And we heard it from his own mouth, just saying,
(07:00):
and I'm going to go to guy Deandrey in just
a moment. But that cannot be suppressed in court. Nobody
made him blurt that out. That can be played over
and over and over on a loop when this finally
makes it to a jury. But first to you, Cheryl McCollum,
sound familiar.
Speaker 8 (07:17):
Sounds familiar, And you and I talked yesterday about the
importance of messages with this young man. What we are
seeing with this alleged killer is he cannot help himself.
He has got to tell his side. He already has
a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
You know.
Speaker 9 (07:34):
The first thing that man said to him was don't
say a word. He can't help it. The outburst will continue.
I believe that he's going to start sending letters to
people from his cell. He has to get his message
out period.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The reason that we are talking about bombers is because
in the to do list, the so called evil to
do list, there is evid he planned to bomb Manhattan.
Not only did I work the Eric Rudolph Olympic bombing
the night of the bomb and there on, I happened
(08:10):
to be in Manhattan on nine eleven, as if the
city could take another event. But listen.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Luigi Mangoni has a two hundred and sixty two word
handwritten manifesto on him when he's arrested, and in it
he mentioned a spiral notebook. CNN is reporting that in
the spiral notebook, Mangoni was keeping a to do list
leading up to the murder of CEO Brian Thompson. He's
thinking about using a bomb to kill Thompson instead of
shooting him in public. Mangoni allegedly decides against bombing the
(08:41):
building because it could kill innocence and decides to shoot Thompson.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Straight out to death. Investigator Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
where there is an incredible criminal justice program, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of Body
Bags with Joseph Scott Moore to Joe Scott, the thought
of what a bomb could do. You know this when
(09:07):
Rudolph's other bombs went off at the abortion clinic, My
investigator was there and I was hit with shrapnel. The
body count as a result of a bomb is immense.
Could you just before we get into the mind of
an alleged killer, the so called Ivy Grad assassin, before
(09:27):
we go kick around in his mind, can you just
describe what happens with a bomb, a homemade bomb. Now
you've got McVeigh who used fertilizer, but there are killing
children in the nursery at the Murrah building. But you
also have the typical kind of bomb a homemade terrorist
(09:49):
would use, using shrapnel. What does that do to the victims?
Joe Scott, Well, in.
Speaker 10 (09:54):
The approximating area where the concentric carrier where the bomb
goes off. Those bits of shrapnel as you refer to them,
those are bits of In the case of the Olympic
Park bombing, which I was part of that investigation as well.
With the me he had all manner of things that
were in there that created shrapnel and they become projectiles
(10:15):
as that blast out concentrically from that area. So you've
got bits of concrete, perhaps you've got bits of woodscrews, nails,
anything that can become a projectile. It's very non specific,
but what it is meant to do is actually become
a weapon of terrorism because you have people that are wounded.
(10:37):
There's still people walking around today, Nancy bearing the scars
from that night back in nineteen ninety six from the
Olympic bombing. You take that and you traumatize another place
like Manhattan, which has already seen certainly it's fair share,
and you can drive a location into total paranoia by
doing this. And this guy's I think at his heart
(10:59):
he's a selfie anarchist more than likely, you know, I
guess that's just part of his what do you call it,
his lived experience, which is nothing more than a bunch
of psychobabble nonsense. I guess the real thing that we're
going to hear about now is he's going to speak
his own truths into power, some kind of nonsense like that.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, he had a rough Joe's got up there on
the fortieth floor of Honlulu high Rise looking out at
the sunrise and the sunset before he went surfing every day. Okay,
but that said, guys, we are getting information also of
reports of a fingerprint match to Mangione from the scene.
(11:39):
Had to be from a bar or candy wrapper, or
the cell phone that was left behind, or the water
bottle he left behind a lot. But we're understanding there
was a fingerprint match to Mangione from the scene where
there are other items left of the scene. Was that
somehow nearby on a fixed object such as a parking meter.
(12:04):
I don't know, but a match from the scene, and
will report as we hear more. Straight out to doctor
Bethany Marshall joining us, high profile psychoanalyst out of LA
author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock now.
Doctor Bethany, thank you for being with us. When I
was listening to Joe Scott talking. We've got so much
(12:24):
to cover. So far, this is all I've got of
the manifesto, but I understand other sources have it in full,
and I'm very curious why the whole thing has not
been released. That said, when you think about the mind
of a would be bomber and the vast damage that
can be done, it's a unique criminal that plans to bomb.
(12:49):
And I'd like first of all to hear what you
make of his appearance in court.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Well, what I see is this leaning over and trying
to quibble with his attorney means that he's concentrating on
the bits and pieces, but he cannot see the big
picture of what he's done and where he's going that
he'll probably spend the rest of his life in jail.
You know the way he's screaming in front of the courthouse,
he actually sounds organized psychologically. He doesn't sound disorganized, so
(13:18):
that would rule out mental illness. When he says it's
a lived experience, I think he's trying to say that
he personally.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Do you just say a lived experience? What are you
talking about? Did you get that from him?
Speaker 6 (13:31):
He's trying to claim that this personally happened to him.
He's not making it up. He's not fabricating. It was
a lived experience for him.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
This guy.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
You know what impresses me, Nancy, is that when somebody
is having a mental health episode, they're not organized psychologically.
This guy is extremely organized in how he planned executed
the crime. What he's said in front of the courthouse.
He has thought this out. The idea that he ruled
(14:04):
out bombing people because it would kill innocence. That shows
a capacity for problem solving. So I'm going to say
this guy is somebody who feels so wronged by society,
by the healthcare companies. I think even when he was
complaining to the friend that he couldn't have sex because
of his back, I think he was just whining and complaining.
(14:26):
I'm wondering if that's even true, or he just loves
talking to people in a particular way that he's always
the brunt of something bad.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Mangioni is shackled at the waist and ankles for his
court appearance. At one point, Mangoni tries toannry Jack whiles
attorney Thomas Dicky is arguing for bail, addressing the eight
thousand US dollars and two thousand dollars in foreign currency
found with Mangoni. At his arrest, Dicky turns to his client,
instructing his client, don't say a word.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining us an all star
panels straight out to you, Guy, DeAndrea veteran felony prosecutor
now civil lawyer at La fay Boucie DeAndre Reich and
Ryan Guy, thank you for being with us. You know,
I always loved it as a prosecutor when there was
(15:22):
an uncontrollable client in court, the defense attorney can't do
anything with them. They're prone to blurting things out that
I can use in front of a jury. And of
course it's even better if they do it in front
of a jury, because in front of a jury, you know,
think back on all of the defendants you have seen
(15:42):
in the past. Think about Scott Peterson, how well he
came off in front of a jury and in front
of cameras, convincing people with his demeanor alone, because of
course he never took the stand that he was innocent.
Many people thought he was handsome, not me, but mean
people did Colline Greg great golfer, wonderful job, beautiful home,
(16:05):
lovely wife, baby on the way, hoo why would he
do this? Well, he did, but some defendants just can't
help themselves, like this guy. What is it like to
be in court with an uncontrollable client? Guy?
Speaker 11 (16:20):
If I'm the one representing them, not good at all.
If I'm on the other side of the aisle. Like
you said, as a prosecutor, when I was a homicide prosecutor,
it was the best because there's so many telling things,
Nancy about what they're saying. When they blurt it out,
they think they're helping themselves, when really it's the now
on the call fin typically for a defendant who's blurting
(16:41):
things out.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And you know, the right demeanor and the right presentation
in court can even beat a fingerprint match that we're
learning has just been made with items at the scene.
We are also hearing Christina joining me is Christina Oligo,
a news anchor Sale News Channel. Christina, thank you for
being with us. We're also hearing about his spiral notebook
(17:06):
that like the ghost gun that was made with a
three D printer live AMMO, including a Hall of Point bullet.
Those are devastating. I have Scott explained what that is
in a moment and so much more. He kept with
him a spiral notebook to be found by law enforcement.
(17:27):
What was in the notebook that we know so far, Christina, Well,
I think that.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Spiral notebook is going to be even more devastating because
if he is the author of what was written in
that spiral notebook, it talks about killing the CEO. One
of the specific lines from that notebook is when he
talks about killing an executive, he says, what do you do?
You whack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean counter convention.
It's targeted, precise and doesn't risk innocence. So if this
(17:55):
is indeed his if this is indeed his writings, I'm
sure there are many more passages there that are going
to implicate him and being guilty of this crime, because
he seems to be according to his outburst, according to
the way he can't be quite important. He wants this
message to get out, So he probably chroniclized every thought
that he had, every step that he allegedly made leading
(18:16):
up to the assassination of Brian Thompson, and that is
going to be used against him, obviously, and like you said, devastating,
this might be, I mean, essentially one of the biggest
smoking guns in the entire case in convicting Luigi MAGGIONI, ight.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
To Guy DeAndrea, a veteran former felony prosecutor. Guy, can
we just parse those words? Listen to this? I mean,
what the defense attorney who seems very convincing and genuine
by the way, I mean, he has a really good demeanor,
kind of a homespun demean I'm gonna show him to
you in just a moment. But guy, listen to this.
(18:56):
The words exactly out of Mangioni's spiral notebook, and we're
going to be able to prove that with DNA on
the page's fingerprints on the pages writing comparison, plus he
had it in his backpack. Okay, listen to this, guy,
what do you do you whack the CEO at the
annual Parasitic Bean counter Convention. It's targeted, precise and doesn't
(19:20):
risk innocence. That's just one of the passages in the notebook.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Guy, what do you do with that as a as
a defense attorney or as a prosecutor?
Speaker 11 (19:29):
Because as a prosecutor, it's amazing because it shows any
defense in terms of mental health issues, which I don't
believe exists at all when based on all of his
actions and his statements, he is sort of setting out
this this perverse social justice warrior, right disgusting in this
notebook that he doesn't want to hurt innocence. He just
(19:49):
wants to hurt CEOs at insurance companies, almost like a nullification.
He's almost building this out from the beginning. And so
as a defense attorney, I don't know what her task
they would have to do to get that suppressed, but
I don't see any way in which they'd actually be
able to do that under the law.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Let me throw a technical legal term at you, guy, DeAndrea,
You're screwed as the defense attorney in this case because
that spiral notebook, and we haven't heard the whole thing yet,
and we haven't heard the whole manifesto yet. You know,
Tom Ruskin joining me very critical today, former NYPD detective investigator,
now private investigator, President CMP Protective and Investigative Group, Inc.
(20:32):
Tom Ruskin, thank you for being with us. You know
Central Park, in this area where the execution went down.
You'd think a to do list would be gravy right
on top of your meat and potatoes. But remember Robert Blake,
who absolutely masterminded the murder of his then wife, Bonnie
(20:52):
Lee Bakley. They had a horrendous to do list by shovels,
get lime to get rid of the smell get rope,
and they still lost the case. Blake was acquitted. So
even a to do list doesn't always do the trick.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
I think when we really haven't discussed here today and
as it happens, I'm very familiar with this area because
it was my first area of patrol that happened to
be my sector where the Hilton is. I know that
he ran through the alley between the zig Field and
across from the Hilton. He did a lot of pre
planning here. Not only did he know or find out
(21:34):
where this where Peterson was staying and where he was
going to walk, but he also had a lot of
weapons training. Because the way you see him take the stand,
the way you see him when the gun jams, the
ghost gun jams, he clears. It is not something that
(21:54):
you do on the spur of the moment. He We
will find out that he went TOES or that he
spired this gun. He got the gun to be a
functioning ghost gun with a silencer, and I think that's
going to be very important for the prosecution to show
the level of pre thought and premeditation in this matter.
(22:18):
Not to mention he was very careful in the way
he left. He had a root as I said. He
ran through the zig Field lot there to the city Bikes, the.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Zig Field Theater right.
Speaker 12 (22:30):
The Zigfields Theater and alley way that's between them between
the Zigfield Theater right in the back of where Chercho
used to be, and then ran to the city bike thing.
I think he also pre planned to lay down that
backpack at Central Park with the monopoly money. He knew
he was not going back to the hostel and fled
(22:53):
the city on the on the bus in Upper Manhattan.
He also didn't go back to the same bus terminal
he came in and didn't take the same root out
of town. This is all premeditated that will come out
in time and will show his level of thought premeditation
for whatever his manifesto.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Was, A man is dead, gun down, shot in the back,
the father of two boys. But for some reason at
this hour, the alleged shooter of the so called Ivy
League Grad assassin is being glorified and the witnesses and
(23:34):
the police law enforcement on the case are being vilified.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
Listen three McDonald's and Altoona, Pennsylvania are getting hammered online
by one star reviews and very derogatory comments after a
call from a restaurant led to the arrest of the
suspect in Brian Thompson's murder. One post reads more like narcdonald's.
I hope obesity and heart disease are in network in PA.
Denied defend a post diarrhea at mcdone donald's. Another says,
(24:01):
written by poster Jordan A, this location has rats in
the kitchen that will make you sick and your insurance
isn't going to cover it. Yet. Another Google user writes
service was terrible. Rats everywhere. The word rat, which can
also be used to reference a snitch, is common among
the posts.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Straight to You, Dave Mack joining me Crime Online dot
Com investigative reporter, there are no rats, actual rodents in McDonald's.
The witnesses, the elderly patrons spotted the alleged killer, and
the employee that called police. That's who they're referring to.
They're talking about them, calling them rats.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
This is a shocking development, Nancy that for some reason
there's a whole generation of people that are seeing this
guy's side of whatever is site, you know, whatever's going
on in the world today. They're favoring this guy and
calling the people who actually do the right thing the rat.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
You know. Tom Ruskin joining me, former NYPD detective investigator,
now PI and president of c MP Protective Investigating Investigation Group. Tom,
do you remember when OJ Simpson Orenthal James Simpson was
driving on his low speed chase holding himself hostage.
Speaker 12 (25:24):
Yes, and all the banners hanging from bridges and people
holding up signs go OJ.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Did they not see the crime scene photos of Nicole
Brown with her head practically chopped off, only hanging on
to her body with a little bit of skin at
the back. Did they not see those pictures of her
that emerged in the courtroom with her face blown up
like an eggplant, beaten and battered by O. J. Simpson?
(25:59):
And they're going free OJ? Really right?
Speaker 12 (26:03):
And let's not forget Daniel Goldvin and how brutally he
was attacked as well in just leaving Nicole's house that night.
People see from a law enforcement standpoint, people see sometimes
these type of people who are taking in their mind
(26:23):
a crazy, crazy stand against the healthcare system in his case,
that's not very well liked by a lot of people
in this country. That's not justification for shooting someone. It's
justification for changing laws and making consumer rights better. But
(26:43):
this guy will be seen in certain circles around our
country as a hero. And the cops planting eight thousand dollars.
Most cops don't have eight thousand dollars in their savings account.
And you know the great work that the NYPD did
it together tracking his moves, being able to find the
(27:04):
wrapper that he ate of that health bar, the water,
the water bottle, and the bullet casings, which I believe
one of those items are the ones that will tie
to the print. Now that we have the suspect.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
Some social media users are using the murder of United
Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson to make a statement by urging
potential jurors in a future trial of Luigi Mangoni to
acquit the alleged murderer even if they think he's guilty.
These so called gen z influencers are urging other social
media users to become familiar with jury nullification. This is
(27:42):
when a jury returns a not guilty verdict, even when
they believe the person is guilty.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Have they lost their minds? Already online a vast community
urging a future jury to acquit the so called Ivy
League grat assassin. Well, you know, it's not just that
you've got to hear niam h in iamh on TikTok.
(28:10):
Listen to this woman, to the people who are going.
Speaker 13 (28:12):
To end up on that jury for that guy who
shut the CEO. They have econom yet, Just remember that
if all they have is circumstantial evidence and eyewitness reports,
you don't have to make that man guilty. Research shows
that eyewitness reports are the least reliable evidence in a courtroom.
You can make people believe they saw something that they didn't,
and you can make people think that they didn't see
(28:35):
something that they did.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You don't even need to bring up during qualification.
Speaker 13 (28:38):
All you have to do is ask your fellow jury
members whether or not they remember the guy who served
them coffee two weeks ago. And if they can't give
you a good description, just say, how do we know
that they're given us a good description? Especially since this
van was covered head to doe.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
We don't even know if it's a man.
Speaker 13 (28:54):
How would we know, let that man go free.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Well, okay, now I've heard it all. I thought I
had already heard it all, but now I have heard
it all. That from Niam H on tik talk straight
out to Guy DeAndrea joining us. Former felony prosecutor now
civil attorney. Guy. She's talking about jury nullification, which is
(29:17):
what happened in the oj Simpson case. The jury said
not guilty because they were mad at some a few
select members of the LAPD.
Speaker 11 (29:29):
Absolutely, Joel jury nullification is a real thing, and the
prosecutors in this case, if it goes to trial, must
make sure they have the right type of juror. And
this woman who was just talking about, how do you
remember the person who served you coffee two weeks ago?
It's so ridiculous and simplistic in its fall process. It's
(29:50):
not about if you remember someone a barrista who served
you coffee in the crowded coffee house.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
It's did you.
Speaker 11 (29:56):
See someone in a horrific event can kill someone. Those
two events are starkly different, and you don't need to
worry about eyewitness identification here. The physical evidence that we
were already learning about that was found on his person is.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Overwhelming also he was not covered head to toe niam H.
He took his mask down to eat in McDonald's in
a corner seat and that is when elderly patrons observed him.
There you go, he's not covered. And how do you
explain the kinky dink, the coincidence that he happened to
(30:36):
have a ghost gun, a manifesto, a spiral notebook and
a loose round which was a hall of point bullet.
Joe Scott Morgan, very quickly before I forget about it,
explain what a hall of point bullet does when it
lodges in your stomach.
Speaker 10 (30:50):
Yeah, I've actually got one right here. If you can
look down the long axis as that the whole and
this is a non millimeter. What happens is is that
upon striking the target a nine millimeter for instance, it's
going to expand out almost twice the size. So what
you're looking for this to do is to do maximum
(31:12):
damage that it possibly can. As the little wings expand
into and it's going to cavitate through that area, It'll
rip through various vessels, organ systems, this sort of thing,
and it's almost to guarantee that the individual there's a
higher probability of the individual is going to wind up
fatally wounded.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Dave Mac joining me from
Crime online dot Com investigative reporter were talking earlier, Dave
Mac about banners hung from bridges when Simpson was holding
himself hostage and the infamous jeep chase, So the same thing.
(31:59):
It's like history repeating itself. It's happening here.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
Even a little bit worse. Nancy, we know that Louis
gi Mangoni was the valedictorian at the exclusive Gilman School
for Boys in Baltimore, well less than twenty four hours
after the guy is arrested and charged over Interstate eighty
three southbound lanes in Baltimore, a huge banner that says denied, Defend, Depose,
(32:25):
free healthcare for all. I'm thinking about how the family
and loved ones of Brian Thompson are feeling when this
is the kind of support for the murderer, alleged murderer.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And believe it or not, an on air anchor caught
gawking salivating at a shirtless photo as she said of
attractive Luigi Mangoni and his fourteen pack, stating quote he
clearly went to the gym, even demanding that the control
(33:01):
room take down the banner so she could see MANGIONI
in full I guess without a shirt to you, just
Scott Morgan, you were amazed about an article you read
demanding that Kim Kardashian come to the defense of Mangione.
What did you do?
Speaker 10 (33:22):
Yeah, I was, yeah, yeah. Actually, you know our friends
at Daily Mail, you know, I opened them up generally
every morning, you know, to take a look to see
what's going on. And there was in big headlines saying
that individuals are actually soliciting Kim Kardashian today to ask
her for money. So for this anti capitalist individual who
(33:43):
comes with a silver spoon, fully equipped, already packaged, they're
asking a billionaire to swoop in to his assistance to
provide monies going forward in order, I guess to put
up a defense for this guy. That there's no end
to this. Nancy, It's absolute, absolutely mind blowing you.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Now, I'm very taken aback by the public support of
an alleged assassin. Cheryl McCollum. We can amass all the
forensic evenance we want, apparently now fingerprints tying him. You
cannot beat a fingerprint unless you've got DNA and expect
they're going to have DNA matching him to a water
bottle there at the scene. If you have a groundswell
(34:26):
for vigilante justice, Nancy, I believe that is why these
news organizations that have the complete manifesto have not printed it.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
If you remember back the zodiac, when you name certain
victims and you're going to say what you're going to
do to those victims, when and where and how, it's
a really good idea not to make that public because
of copycats and other people that might have, you know,
a desire to harm someone. So I believe the manifesto
(34:59):
includes a hit list. But I'm gonna tell you something
else about these folks that are champion. We saw it
in Delfa where people blamed the sister. They said that
law enforcement was corrupt. They walked around the courthouse saying free.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
They attacked you and I for being at the I
don't know why, being in the in the courtroom and
stating we believe Richard Allen was the killer. They went haywire.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
You're talking about a group of people that think Robin
Hood was real.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know, I was just going to bring up Robinhood
to dtor Bethany Marshall, doctor Bethany Marshall's taco analyst and author,
joining us out of La Bethany before you start. You
do know Robin Hood was not real. It's just a movie.
It's just a story. There is no Friar Tuck. That's
not real. I do so here this guy, I means Jon.
(35:52):
He's being compared to Robin Hood, who, by the way,
even if he was real, never killed anybody, much less
an unarmed man by shooting him in the back.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
And see, I think the more ideological people are, the
more they have a capacity for hatred. So let's look
at this through the lens of group psychology. People sometimes
align themselves with very rigid belief systems as a rationalization
for hurting other people. Think of Warren Jeffs of the
FLDS cult. I mean, they were basically raping children and women,
(36:22):
but they set themselves up as this very religious institution.
So I think all these people who are siding with
Luigi Mangioni are a group of people, and it's become
a group psychology where the ideology he's spouting, the hateful ideology,
is something that they identify.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
With legal battle going on right now, take a listen
to Mangioni's defense attorney point.
Speaker 14 (36:49):
Well, like I said, he's an American citizen. He's presumed innocent.
Let's not forget that. That's the number one premise of
our wonderful country ANYMO. That's what I want people to remember.
And we have the acres.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I'm ready to do that.
Speaker 14 (37:01):
And that's what lawyers do and I'm proud of that.
And that's like I said, we didn't get nothing. There
was nothing in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
If you were there, you saw me of Jack. I
need I need to see evidence. We're titled to see that,
and we need to see that. That's Thomas M. Dickey,
Luigi Mangioni's lawyer. That video from our forends at KATU.
This guy is a legal commentator. He was formerly in
the Blair County Public Defender's office, which means he's tried
(37:27):
a lot of cases. You can't be a prosecutor or
a public defender and not try a lot of cases
if you're in charge of a courtroom. To Christina Awayo
joining us from the National News Salem News Channel, Christina,
what happens now we know MANGIONI is fighting extradition, Yes.
Speaker 11 (37:49):
We do.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Now we need to learn more, is what happens now.
We need to learn more about what's in that spiral notebook.
We need to learn more about the events. We need
to learn more about I think we know a lot
about his history and where he came from, but we
need to learn what tied all of this together. And
I think it all rests on when I initially heard
that he was a suspect. I searched his ex page
and you see this X ray of a spinal cord
(38:10):
with pins in it, and that's essentially the lynchpin for
all of this, I believe. So we need to learn
more about his mentality. We need to learn more about
why there is a big rush to support him. We
need to learn more about why this he committed, allegedly,
this crime in cold blood, so we could figure out
where we go from here, because it seems as though
we've lost humanity a little bit with the push. You
(38:33):
see it all over social media, Free Him, Free bro
Free Luigi. And as I was doing my research, I
contacted a couple of healthcare professionals in the mental health industry.
Why is there such a support for this guy, and
they said, basically, people like a bad boy. They're like
a bad boy with a good look, and they feel
like he's taking down the big companies and the healthcare companies.
(38:54):
It's basically a David and Goliath sort of a situation.
So we need to learn more about where where his
mentality is, why he allegedly did what he allegedly did,
and figure out how to prevent this in the future.
Speaker 8 (39:07):
Nancy, can I jump in, yes?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Please do?
Speaker 8 (39:09):
He is a walking contradiction. This kid cannot decide, Hey,
I'm rich, I come for money, but I hate people
that are agreed and have too much. He's a tech genius,
but he uses a spiral notebook. He has a back
injury that is so severe he can't have sex, but
he can run and ride bikes and you know, ride
buses for five hours. He won't speak the police, yet
(39:32):
he has an outburst in front of fifteen of them.
He says in his manifesto he's not qualified to really
speak on it, but he qualified enough to murder somebody. Nancy.
He's a fan of the Unibomber, so I'll just quote
the Unibomber. I believe in nothing that sums up dis
alleged killer.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Cheryl McCollum, You are so right. I do know that
the Blair County District Attorney does have his price already.
Straight Listen.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
The Blair County charges are still active and we intend
on prosecuting them, but we also intend on cooperating with
the New York City Police Department in Manhattan DIA's office.
We've already indicated to them that we believe their charges
take precedent and we'll do what's necessary to accommodate their prosecution.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
First that from our friends at Forbes, and I commend
Peter Weeks. It takes you know, a big person to
be humble. The charges in Manhattan are murder murder too.
To be specific. The charges in Pennsylvania, where Weeks is
a prosecutor, are charges connected to forgery and firearm. We
(40:43):
are waiting for this case to be transferred to Manhattan
in a court of law. This case is far from over.
Prosecutors are still building their cases now. With the social
media wave that is anti law enforcement, anti justice, many
(41:04):
people may not come forward. But if you know or
think you know anything about the movements of Mangione prior
to and after the execution style slay of Thompson. Please
dial toll free one eight hundred five seven seven tips
one eight hundred five seven seven eight four seven seven.
(41:27):
There is a sixty thousand dollars reward. We wait for
justice to unfold. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the so called Ivy League
assassins plan to bomb Manhattan emerges along with an evil
to do list. The mask slips off the prep school
(00:20):
grad as he bears his teeth in court and now
fighting extradition. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us for just over five days.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Our NYPD investigators comb through thousands of hours of video,
followed up on hundreds of tips, and processed every bit
of forensic evidence DNA fingerprints, IP addresses, and so much more.
To tighten the net, we deployed drones, canine units, and
(00:53):
scuba divers. We leveraged the Domain Awareness System ARGUS cameras
and conducted aviation canvases. And our detectives also went door
to door interviewing potential witnesses and doing the good old
fashioned police work that our investigators are famous for.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
And Police Commissioner Jessica Tish was right. It worked. Listen.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
A man was taking it to custody today at Altuda,
Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tais to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York and.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Now the battle moves to the court room fighting extradition.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, I mean he was either in a way or
a challenge extradition. There's a pretty clear cut process if
he files his petition for habeas corpus. We're in the
process now security a governor's weren't from the state of
New York, and we'll be prepared when the judge schedules
is the hearing has to do what's necessary to get
him back to New York.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That from our friends at Forbes with me in all
star panels straight out to special guests joining us. Christina Ohio,
national news anchor Sale News Channel, Christina, what is the latest?
We saw the mask slipping yesterday as Mangioni was taken
into court, screaming and baring his teeth, his lawyer having
(02:24):
to quiet him in court. What happened?
Speaker 5 (02:27):
I think this is the first time that we've seen
any real emotion from Mangioni. Right, he has been calm
his first arrest. He was shown without emotion in all
of his mugshots, his pictures. He seems very emotion less.
So this is very telling his reaction. You see it
there on the screen. He's angry, he's scowling, and he's
sending a message out to apparently the journalists that are
(02:48):
behind something to the effect of it being completely unjust,
of this being a lived experience, of this being an
insult to the intelligence of the American people. And it's
telling in the fact that he is very victied in
his beliefs. He's very passionate about what he believes in.
And we see that you said the mask slipped in
the courtroom and he was attempting to tell his attorney
(03:10):
something really insignificant about him purchasing the mask. So it
also tells us that he's focused on these tiny, little
insignificant things such as whether the charity bag was a
waterproof where the eight thousand dollars was planted in his
first court hearing, and he's not really focused.
Speaker 6 (03:26):
On the gravity of the situation of what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Could you slow down just a moment. I want to
hear that again. You got to me drinking out of
the fire hydright here. That's a lot of information I
want everybody to hear what you just said, what he
was saying in court, and I've got some video for him,
going to show you just a moment, Christina, but repeat
well in that first court.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Here, and he was focused on insignificant things. He was
focused on that farity bag and wanting to clarify that
it was a waterproof bag instead. He's also focused on
the eight thousand dollars that police found on him in cash,
saying that it was planted there. And he's not really
fling on the main issue at hand, which is he's
staring down the barrel of a murdered to charge. This
(04:05):
is a heavy situation. This is a heavy charge. And
then he's shouting his messages. The first sign of emotion
that we see, and he's showing us that he's very
convicted in his beliefs. He's very passionate. That's the only
sign of emotion that we saw. And then in the extradition,
hearing again something super insignificant, whether or not he purchased
(04:25):
the blue mask that he was wearing.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Let's take a look at Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 7 (04:36):
He experience.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Lived experience that from our friends at Des Moines Register.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
Listen when Luigi Mangoni arrives for his extradition. Hearing he's agitated,
physically struggling with deputies and shouting at gathered media in court.
He is surrounded by six Blair County deputies to prevent
any more physical or verbal outbursts. As Mangione he is
leaving the courthouse, he seems under control, calm and silent
as he leaves the courthouse headed back to jail.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
We shows you a tiny bit of MANGIONI blowing up,
screaming at everyone, staying that law enforcement, the police are
quote completely out of touch, that it's quote an insult
to the intelligence of the American people and lived experience.
I find it really interesting. I'm gonna have to go
to a shrinking just a moment. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us.
(05:27):
He is focusing on clarifying that there is a waterproof
bag and that the money about ten grand plus and
foreign currency was planted, like the beat cop in Altoona
had some foreign currency on him to plant. Okay, whatever,
but I want you to see this in full. It's
a long version of what we just played you as
(05:57):
an insult people experienced straight out to longtime colleague forensic
expert by the way from our friends at Des Moines Register.
Thank you for that. Cheryl McCollums joining me, forensic expert
(06:20):
and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of
Zone seven podcast. Cheryl, thank you for being with us.
You know what I'm looking at. What me and GEONI
is saying, the so called Ivy League assassin reminds me
of somebody you and I know very well. I was
at the Olympic bombing. You worked on the Olympic bombing
(06:40):
along with me, Eric Rudolph then setting off other bombs
in tandem. He thought he was in the right too.
And then of course we've got Ted Kazinski, we've got
Timothy McVeigh. All of them think they're the good guy.
And we heard it from his own mouth, just saying,
(07:00):
and I'm going to go to guy Deandrey in just
a moment. But that cannot be suppressed in court. Nobody
made him blurt that out. That can be played over
and over and over on a loop when this finally
makes it to a jury. But first to you, Cheryl McCollum,
sound familiar.
Speaker 8 (07:17):
Sounds familiar, And you and I talked yesterday about the
importance of messages with this young man. What we are
seeing with this alleged killer is he cannot help himself.
He has got to tell his side. He already has
a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
You know.
Speaker 9 (07:34):
The first thing that man said to him was don't
say a word. He can't help it. The outburst will continue.
I believe that he's going to start sending letters to
people from his cell. He has to get his message
out period.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
The reason that we are talking about bombers is because
in the to do list, the so called evil to
do list, there is evid he planned to bomb Manhattan.
Not only did I work the Eric Rudolph Olympic bombing
the night of the bomb and there on, I happened
(08:10):
to be in Manhattan on nine eleven, as if the
city could take another event. But listen.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
Luigi Mangoni has a two hundred and sixty two word
handwritten manifesto on him when he's arrested, and in it
he mentioned a spiral notebook. CNN is reporting that in
the spiral notebook, Mangoni was keeping a to do list
leading up to the murder of CEO Brian Thompson. He's
thinking about using a bomb to kill Thompson instead of
shooting him in public. Mangoni allegedly decides against bombing the
(08:41):
building because it could kill innocence and decides to shoot Thompson.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Straight out to death. Investigator Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
where there is an incredible criminal justice program, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of Body
Bags with Joseph Scott Moore to Joe Scott, the thought
of what a bomb could do. You know this when
(09:07):
Rudolph's other bombs went off at the abortion clinic, My
investigator was there and I was hit with shrapnel. The
body count as a result of a bomb is immense.
Could you just before we get into the mind of
an alleged killer, the so called Ivy Grad assassin, before
(09:27):
we go kick around in his mind, can you just
describe what happens with a bomb, a homemade bomb. Now
you've got McVeigh who used fertilizer, but there are killing
children in the nursery at the Murrah building. But you
also have the typical kind of bomb a homemade terrorist
(09:49):
would use, using shrapnel. What does that do to the victims?
Joe Scott, Well, in.
Speaker 10 (09:54):
The approximating area where the concentric carrier where the bomb
goes off. Those bits of shrapnel as you refer to them,
those are bits of In the case of the Olympic
Park bombing, which I was part of that investigation as well.
With the me he had all manner of things that
were in there that created shrapnel and they become projectiles
(10:15):
as that blast out concentrically from that area. So you've
got bits of concrete, perhaps you've got bits of woodscrews, nails,
anything that can become a projectile. It's very non specific,
but what it is meant to do is actually become
a weapon of terrorism because you have people that are wounded.
(10:37):
There's still people walking around today, Nancy bearing the scars
from that night back in nineteen ninety six from the
Olympic bombing. You take that and you traumatize another place
like Manhattan, which has already seen certainly it's fair share,
and you can drive a location into total paranoia by
doing this. And this guy's I think at his heart
(10:59):
he's a selfie anarchist more than likely, you know, I
guess that's just part of his what do you call it,
his lived experience, which is nothing more than a bunch
of psychobabble nonsense. I guess the real thing that we're
going to hear about now is he's going to speak
his own truths into power, some kind of nonsense like that.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, he had a rough Joe's got up there on
the fortieth floor of Honlulu high Rise looking out at
the sunrise and the sunset before he went surfing every day. Okay,
but that said, guys, we are getting information also of
reports of a fingerprint match to Mangione from the scene.
(11:39):
Had to be from a bar or candy wrapper, or
the cell phone that was left behind, or the water
bottle he left behind a lot. But we're understanding there
was a fingerprint match to Mangione from the scene where
there are other items left of the scene. Was that
somehow nearby on a fixed object such as a parking meter.
(12:04):
I don't know, but a match from the scene, and
will report as we hear more. Straight out to doctor
Bethany Marshall joining us, high profile psychoanalyst out of LA
author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock now.
Doctor Bethany, thank you for being with us. When I
was listening to Joe Scott talking. We've got so much
(12:24):
to cover. So far, this is all I've got of
the manifesto, but I understand other sources have it in full,
and I'm very curious why the whole thing has not
been released. That said, when you think about the mind
of a would be bomber and the vast damage that
can be done, it's a unique criminal that plans to bomb.
(12:49):
And I'd like first of all to hear what you
make of his appearance in court.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Well, what I see is this leaning over and trying
to quibble with his attorney means that he's concentrating on
the bits and pieces, but he cannot see the big
picture of what he's done and where he's going that
he'll probably spend the rest of his life in jail.
You know the way he's screaming in front of the courthouse,
he actually sounds organized psychologically. He doesn't sound disorganized, so
(13:18):
that would rule out mental illness. When he says it's
a lived experience, I think he's trying to say that
he personally.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Do you just say a lived experience? What are you
talking about? Did you get that from him?
Speaker 6 (13:31):
He's trying to claim that this personally happened to him.
He's not making it up. He's not fabricating. It was
a lived experience for him.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
This guy.
Speaker 6 (13:42):
You know what impresses me, Nancy, is that when somebody
is having a mental health episode, they're not organized psychologically.
This guy is extremely organized in how he planned executed
the crime. What he's said in front of the courthouse.
He has thought this out. The idea that he ruled
(14:04):
out bombing people because it would kill innocence. That shows
a capacity for problem solving. So I'm going to say
this guy is somebody who feels so wronged by society,
by the healthcare companies. I think even when he was
complaining to the friend that he couldn't have sex because
of his back, I think he was just whining and complaining.
(14:26):
I'm wondering if that's even true, or he just loves
talking to people in a particular way that he's always
the brunt of something bad.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Mangioni is shackled at the waist and ankles for his
court appearance. At one point, Mangoni tries toannry Jack whiles
attorney Thomas Dicky is arguing for bail, addressing the eight
thousand US dollars and two thousand dollars in foreign currency
found with Mangoni. At his arrest, Dicky turns to his client,
instructing his client, don't say a word.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace joining us an all star
panels straight out to you, Guy, DeAndrea veteran felony prosecutor
now civil lawyer at La fay Boucie DeAndre Reich and
Ryan Guy, thank you for being with us. You know,
I always loved it as a prosecutor when there was
(15:22):
an uncontrollable client in court, the defense attorney can't do
anything with them. They're prone to blurting things out that
I can use in front of a jury. And of
course it's even better if they do it in front
of a jury, because in front of a jury, you know,
think back on all of the defendants you have seen
(15:42):
in the past. Think about Scott Peterson, how well he
came off in front of a jury and in front
of cameras, convincing people with his demeanor alone, because of
course he never took the stand that he was innocent.
Many people thought he was handsome, not me, but mean
people did Colline Greg great golfer, wonderful job, beautiful home,
(16:05):
lovely wife, baby on the way, hoo why would he
do this? Well, he did, but some defendants just can't
help themselves, like this guy. What is it like to
be in court with an uncontrollable client? Guy?
Speaker 11 (16:20):
If I'm the one representing them, not good at all.
If I'm on the other side of the aisle. Like
you said, as a prosecutor, when I was a homicide prosecutor,
it was the best because there's so many telling things,
Nancy about what they're saying. When they blurt it out,
they think they're helping themselves, when really it's the now
on the call fin typically for a defendant who's blurting
(16:41):
things out.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And you know, the right demeanor and the right presentation
in court can even beat a fingerprint match that we're
learning has just been made with items at the scene.
We are also hearing Christina joining me is Christina Oligo,
a news anchor Sale News Channel. Christina, thank you for
being with us. We're also hearing about his spiral notebook
(17:06):
that like the ghost gun that was made with a
three D printer live AMMO, including a Hall of Point bullet.
Those are devastating. I have Scott explained what that is
in a moment and so much more. He kept with
him a spiral notebook to be found by law enforcement.
(17:27):
What was in the notebook that we know so far, Christina, Well,
I think that.
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Spiral notebook is going to be even more devastating because
if he is the author of what was written in
that spiral notebook, it talks about killing the CEO. One
of the specific lines from that notebook is when he
talks about killing an executive, he says, what do you do?
You whack the CEO at the annual parasitic bean counter convention.
It's targeted, precise and doesn't risk innocence. So if this
(17:55):
is indeed his if this is indeed his writings, I'm
sure there are many more passages there that are going
to implicate him and being guilty of this crime, because
he seems to be according to his outburst, according to
the way he can't be quite important. He wants this
message to get out, So he probably chroniclized every thought
that he had, every step that he allegedly made leading
(18:16):
up to the assassination of Brian Thompson, and that is
going to be used against him, obviously, and like you said, devastating,
this might be, I mean, essentially one of the biggest
smoking guns in the entire case in convicting Luigi MAGGIONI, ight.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
To Guy DeAndrea, a veteran former felony prosecutor. Guy, can
we just parse those words? Listen to this? I mean,
what the defense attorney who seems very convincing and genuine
by the way, I mean, he has a really good demeanor,
kind of a homespun demean I'm gonna show him to
you in just a moment. But guy, listen to this.
(18:56):
The words exactly out of Mangioni's spiral notebook, and we're
going to be able to prove that with DNA on
the page's fingerprints on the pages writing comparison, plus he
had it in his backpack. Okay, listen to this, guy,
what do you do you whack the CEO at the
annual Parasitic Bean counter Convention. It's targeted, precise and doesn't
(19:20):
risk innocence. That's just one of the passages in the notebook.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Guy, what do you do with that as a as
a defense attorney or as a prosecutor?
Speaker 11 (19:29):
Because as a prosecutor, it's amazing because it shows any
defense in terms of mental health issues, which I don't
believe exists at all when based on all of his
actions and his statements, he is sort of setting out
this this perverse social justice warrior, right disgusting in this
notebook that he doesn't want to hurt innocence. He just
(19:49):
wants to hurt CEOs at insurance companies, almost like a nullification.
He's almost building this out from the beginning. And so
as a defense attorney, I don't know what her task
they would have to do to get that suppressed, but
I don't see any way in which they'd actually be
able to do that under the law.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Let me throw a technical legal term at you, guy, DeAndrea,
You're screwed as the defense attorney in this case because
that spiral notebook, and we haven't heard the whole thing yet,
and we haven't heard the whole manifesto yet. You know,
Tom Ruskin joining me very critical today, former NYPD detective investigator,
now private investigator, President CMP Protective and Investigative Group, Inc.
(20:32):
Tom Ruskin, thank you for being with us. You know
Central Park, in this area where the execution went down.
You'd think a to do list would be gravy right
on top of your meat and potatoes. But remember Robert Blake,
who absolutely masterminded the murder of his then wife, Bonnie
(20:52):
Lee Bakley. They had a horrendous to do list by shovels,
get lime to get rid of the smell get rope,
and they still lost the case. Blake was acquitted. So
even a to do list doesn't always do the trick.
Speaker 12 (21:11):
I think when we really haven't discussed here today and
as it happens, I'm very familiar with this area because
it was my first area of patrol that happened to
be my sector where the Hilton is. I know that
he ran through the alley between the zig Field and
across from the Hilton. He did a lot of pre
planning here. Not only did he know or find out
(21:34):
where this where Peterson was staying and where he was
going to walk, but he also had a lot of
weapons training. Because the way you see him take the stand,
the way you see him when the gun jams, the
ghost gun jams, he clears. It is not something that
(21:54):
you do on the spur of the moment. He We
will find out that he went TOES or that he
spired this gun. He got the gun to be a
functioning ghost gun with a silencer, and I think that's
going to be very important for the prosecution to show
the level of pre thought and premeditation in this matter.
(22:18):
Not to mention he was very careful in the way
he left. He had a root as I said. He
ran through the zig Field lot there to the city Bikes, the.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Zig Field Theater right.
Speaker 12 (22:30):
The Zigfields Theater and alley way that's between them between
the Zigfield Theater right in the back of where Chercho
used to be, and then ran to the city bike thing.
I think he also pre planned to lay down that
backpack at Central Park with the monopoly money. He knew
he was not going back to the hostel and fled
(22:53):
the city on the on the bus in Upper Manhattan.
He also didn't go back to the same bus terminal
he came in and didn't take the same root out
of town. This is all premeditated that will come out
in time and will show his level of thought premeditation
for whatever his manifesto.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Was, A man is dead, gun down, shot in the back,
the father of two boys. But for some reason at
this hour, the alleged shooter of the so called Ivy
League Grad assassin is being glorified and the witnesses and
(23:34):
the police law enforcement on the case are being vilified.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
Listen three McDonald's and Altoona, Pennsylvania are getting hammered online
by one star reviews and very derogatory comments after a
call from a restaurant led to the arrest of the
suspect in Brian Thompson's murder. One post reads more like narcdonald's.
I hope obesity and heart disease are in network in PA.
Denied defend a post diarrhea at mcdone donald's. Another says,
(24:01):
written by poster Jordan A, this location has rats in
the kitchen that will make you sick and your insurance
isn't going to cover it. Yet. Another Google user writes
service was terrible. Rats everywhere. The word rat, which can
also be used to reference a snitch, is common among
the posts.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Straight to You, Dave Mack joining me Crime Online dot
Com investigative reporter, there are no rats, actual rodents in McDonald's.
The witnesses, the elderly patrons spotted the alleged killer, and
the employee that called police. That's who they're referring to.
They're talking about them, calling them rats.
Speaker 7 (24:40):
This is a shocking development, Nancy that for some reason
there's a whole generation of people that are seeing this
guy's side of whatever is site, you know, whatever's going
on in the world today. They're favoring this guy and
calling the people who actually do the right thing the rat.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
You know. Tom Ruskin joining me, former NYPD detective investigator,
now PI and president of c MP Protective Investigating Investigation Group. Tom,
do you remember when OJ Simpson Orenthal James Simpson was
driving on his low speed chase holding himself hostage.
Speaker 12 (25:24):
Yes, and all the banners hanging from bridges and people
holding up signs go OJ.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Did they not see the crime scene photos of Nicole
Brown with her head practically chopped off, only hanging on
to her body with a little bit of skin at
the back. Did they not see those pictures of her
that emerged in the courtroom with her face blown up
like an eggplant, beaten and battered by O. J. Simpson?
(25:59):
And they're going free OJ? Really right?
Speaker 12 (26:03):
And let's not forget Daniel Goldvin and how brutally he
was attacked as well in just leaving Nicole's house that night.
People see from a law enforcement standpoint, people see sometimes
these type of people who are taking in their mind
(26:23):
a crazy, crazy stand against the healthcare system in his case,
that's not very well liked by a lot of people
in this country. That's not justification for shooting someone. It's
justification for changing laws and making consumer rights better. But
(26:43):
this guy will be seen in certain circles around our
country as a hero. And the cops planting eight thousand dollars.
Most cops don't have eight thousand dollars in their savings account.
And you know the great work that the NYPD did
it together tracking his moves, being able to find the
(27:04):
wrapper that he ate of that health bar, the water,
the water bottle, and the bullet casings, which I believe
one of those items are the ones that will tie
to the print. Now that we have the suspect.
Speaker 7 (27:21):
Some social media users are using the murder of United
Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson to make a statement by urging
potential jurors in a future trial of Luigi Mangoni to
acquit the alleged murderer even if they think he's guilty.
These so called gen z influencers are urging other social
media users to become familiar with jury nullification. This is
(27:42):
when a jury returns a not guilty verdict, even when
they believe the person is guilty.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Have they lost their minds? Already online a vast community
urging a future jury to acquit the so called Ivy
League grat assassin. Well, you know, it's not just that
you've got to hear niam h in iamh on TikTok.
(28:10):
Listen to this woman, to the people who are going.
Speaker 13 (28:12):
To end up on that jury for that guy who
shut the CEO. They have econom yet, Just remember that
if all they have is circumstantial evidence and eyewitness reports,
you don't have to make that man guilty. Research shows
that eyewitness reports are the least reliable evidence in a courtroom.
You can make people believe they saw something that they didn't,
and you can make people think that they didn't see
(28:35):
something that they did.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You don't even need to bring up during qualification.
Speaker 13 (28:38):
All you have to do is ask your fellow jury
members whether or not they remember the guy who served
them coffee two weeks ago. And if they can't give
you a good description, just say, how do we know
that they're given us a good description? Especially since this
van was covered head to doe.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
We don't even know if it's a man.
Speaker 13 (28:54):
How would we know, let that man go free.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Well, okay, now I've heard it all. I thought I
had already heard it all, but now I have heard
it all. That from Niam H on tik talk straight
out to Guy DeAndrea joining us. Former felony prosecutor now
civil attorney. Guy. She's talking about jury nullification, which is
(29:17):
what happened in the oj Simpson case. The jury said
not guilty because they were mad at some a few
select members of the LAPD.
Speaker 11 (29:29):
Absolutely, Joel jury nullification is a real thing, and the
prosecutors in this case, if it goes to trial, must
make sure they have the right type of juror. And
this woman who was just talking about, how do you
remember the person who served you coffee two weeks ago?
It's so ridiculous and simplistic in its fall process. It's
(29:50):
not about if you remember someone a barrista who served
you coffee in the crowded coffee house.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
It's did you.
Speaker 11 (29:56):
See someone in a horrific event can kill someone. Those
two events are starkly different, and you don't need to
worry about eyewitness identification here. The physical evidence that we
were already learning about that was found on his person is.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Overwhelming also he was not covered head to toe niam H.
He took his mask down to eat in McDonald's in
a corner seat and that is when elderly patrons observed him.
There you go, he's not covered. And how do you
explain the kinky dink, the coincidence that he happened to
(30:36):
have a ghost gun, a manifesto, a spiral notebook and
a loose round which was a hall of point bullet.
Joe Scott Morgan, very quickly before I forget about it,
explain what a hall of point bullet does when it
lodges in your stomach.
Speaker 10 (30:50):
Yeah, I've actually got one right here. If you can
look down the long axis as that the whole and
this is a non millimeter. What happens is is that
upon striking the target a nine millimeter for instance, it's
going to expand out almost twice the size. So what
you're looking for this to do is to do maximum
(31:12):
damage that it possibly can. As the little wings expand
into and it's going to cavitate through that area, It'll
rip through various vessels, organ systems, this sort of thing,
and it's almost to guarantee that the individual there's a
higher probability of the individual is going to wind up
fatally wounded.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Dave Mac joining me from
Crime online dot Com investigative reporter were talking earlier, Dave
Mac about banners hung from bridges when Simpson was holding
himself hostage and the infamous jeep chase, So the same thing.
(31:59):
It's like history repeating itself. It's happening here.
Speaker 7 (32:01):
Even a little bit worse. Nancy, we know that Louis
gi Mangoni was the valedictorian at the exclusive Gilman School
for Boys in Baltimore, well less than twenty four hours
after the guy is arrested and charged over Interstate eighty
three southbound lanes in Baltimore, a huge banner that says denied, Defend, Depose,
(32:25):
free healthcare for all. I'm thinking about how the family
and loved ones of Brian Thompson are feeling when this
is the kind of support for the murderer, alleged murderer.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
And believe it or not, an on air anchor caught
gawking salivating at a shirtless photo as she said of
attractive Luigi Mangoni and his fourteen pack, stating quote he
clearly went to the gym, even demanding that the control
(33:01):
room take down the banner so she could see MANGIONI
in full I guess without a shirt to you, just
Scott Morgan, you were amazed about an article you read
demanding that Kim Kardashian come to the defense of Mangione.
What did you do?
Speaker 10 (33:22):
Yeah, I was, yeah, yeah. Actually, you know our friends
at Daily Mail, you know, I opened them up generally
every morning, you know, to take a look to see
what's going on. And there was in big headlines saying
that individuals are actually soliciting Kim Kardashian today to ask
her for money. So for this anti capitalist individual who
(33:43):
comes with a silver spoon, fully equipped, already packaged, they're
asking a billionaire to swoop in to his assistance to
provide monies going forward in order, I guess to put
up a defense for this guy. That there's no end
to this. Nancy, It's absolute, absolutely mind blowing you.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Now, I'm very taken aback by the public support of
an alleged assassin. Cheryl McCollum. We can amass all the
forensic evenance we want, apparently now fingerprints tying him. You
cannot beat a fingerprint unless you've got DNA and expect
they're going to have DNA matching him to a water
bottle there at the scene. If you have a groundswell
(34:26):
for vigilante justice, Nancy, I believe that is why these
news organizations that have the complete manifesto have not printed it.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
If you remember back the zodiac, when you name certain
victims and you're going to say what you're going to
do to those victims, when and where and how, it's
a really good idea not to make that public because
of copycats and other people that might have, you know,
a desire to harm someone. So I believe the manifesto
(34:59):
includes a hit list. But I'm gonna tell you something
else about these folks that are champion. We saw it
in Delfa where people blamed the sister. They said that
law enforcement was corrupt. They walked around the courthouse saying free.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
They attacked you and I for being at the I
don't know why, being in the in the courtroom and
stating we believe Richard Allen was the killer. They went haywire.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
You're talking about a group of people that think Robin
Hood was real.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know, I was just going to bring up Robinhood
to dtor Bethany Marshall, doctor Bethany Marshall's taco analyst and author,
joining us out of La Bethany before you start. You
do know Robin Hood was not real. It's just a movie.
It's just a story. There is no Friar Tuck. That's
not real. I do so here this guy, I means Jon.
(35:52):
He's being compared to Robin Hood, who, by the way,
even if he was real, never killed anybody, much less
an unarmed man by shooting him in the back.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
And see, I think the more ideological people are, the
more they have a capacity for hatred. So let's look
at this through the lens of group psychology. People sometimes
align themselves with very rigid belief systems as a rationalization
for hurting other people. Think of Warren Jeffs of the
FLDS cult. I mean, they were basically raping children and women,
(36:22):
but they set themselves up as this very religious institution.
So I think all these people who are siding with
Luigi Mangioni are a group of people, and it's become
a group psychology where the ideology he's spouting, the hateful ideology,
is something that they identify.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
With legal battle going on right now, take a listen
to Mangioni's defense attorney point.
Speaker 14 (36:49):
Well, like I said, he's an American citizen. He's presumed innocent.
Let's not forget that. That's the number one premise of
our wonderful country ANYMO. That's what I want people to remember.
And we have the acres.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
I'm ready to do that.
Speaker 14 (37:01):
And that's what lawyers do and I'm proud of that.
And that's like I said, we didn't get nothing. There
was nothing in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
If you were there, you saw me of Jack. I
need I need to see evidence. We're titled to see that,
and we need to see that. That's Thomas M. Dickey,
Luigi Mangioni's lawyer. That video from our forends at KATU.
This guy is a legal commentator. He was formerly in
the Blair County Public Defender's office, which means he's tried
(37:27):
a lot of cases. You can't be a prosecutor or
a public defender and not try a lot of cases
if you're in charge of a courtroom. To Christina Awayo
joining us from the National News Salem News Channel, Christina,
what happens now we know MANGIONI is fighting extradition, Yes.
Speaker 11 (37:49):
We do.
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Now we need to learn more, is what happens now.
We need to learn more about what's in that spiral notebook.
We need to learn more about the events. We need
to learn more about I think we know a lot
about his history and where he came from, but we
need to learn what tied all of this together. And
I think it all rests on when I initially heard
that he was a suspect. I searched his ex page
and you see this X ray of a spinal cord
(38:10):
with pins in it, and that's essentially the lynchpin for
all of this, I believe. So we need to learn
more about his mentality. We need to learn more about
why there is a big rush to support him. We
need to learn more about why this he committed, allegedly,
this crime in cold blood, so we could figure out
where we go from here, because it seems as though
we've lost humanity a little bit with the push. You
(38:33):
see it all over social media, Free Him, Free bro
Free Luigi. And as I was doing my research, I
contacted a couple of healthcare professionals in the mental health industry.
Why is there such a support for this guy, and
they said, basically, people like a bad boy. They're like
a bad boy with a good look, and they feel
like he's taking down the big companies and the healthcare companies.
(38:54):
It's basically a David and Goliath sort of a situation.
So we need to learn more about where where his
mentality is, why he allegedly did what he allegedly did,
and figure out how to prevent this in the future.
Speaker 8 (39:07):
Nancy, can I jump in, yes?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Please do?
Speaker 8 (39:09):
He is a walking contradiction. This kid cannot decide, Hey,
I'm rich, I come for money, but I hate people
that are agreed and have too much. He's a tech genius,
but he uses a spiral notebook. He has a back
injury that is so severe he can't have sex, but
he can run and ride bikes and you know, ride
buses for five hours. He won't speak the police, yet
(39:32):
he has an outburst in front of fifteen of them.
He says in his manifesto he's not qualified to really
speak on it, but he qualified enough to murder somebody. Nancy.
He's a fan of the Unibomber, so I'll just quote
the Unibomber. I believe in nothing that sums up dis
alleged killer.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Cheryl McCollum, You are so right. I do know that
the Blair County District Attorney does have his price already.
Straight Listen.
Speaker 4 (40:01):
The Blair County charges are still active and we intend
on prosecuting them, but we also intend on cooperating with
the New York City Police Department in Manhattan DIA's office.
We've already indicated to them that we believe their charges
take precedent and we'll do what's necessary to accommodate their prosecution.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
First that from our friends at Forbes, and I commend
Peter Weeks. It takes you know, a big person to
be humble. The charges in Manhattan are murder murder too.
To be specific. The charges in Pennsylvania, where Weeks is
a prosecutor, are charges connected to forgery and firearm. We
(40:43):
are waiting for this case to be transferred to Manhattan
in a court of law. This case is far from over.
Prosecutors are still building their cases now. With the social
media wave that is anti law enforcement, anti justice, many
(41:04):
people may not come forward. But if you know or
think you know anything about the movements of Mangione prior
to and after the execution style slay of Thompson. Please
dial toll free one eight hundred five seven seven tips
one eight hundred five seven seven eight four seven seven.
(41:27):
There is a sixty thousand dollars reward. We wait for
justice to unfold. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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