August 26, 2022 • 39 mins
When Jennifer Kesse didn't show up for work, everyone who knew the 24-year-old recognized there was trouble. Kesse was a responsible, habitual person.
She talked to her family regularly. She called her boyfriend every morning on the way to work, and she never missed work, most certainly not without letting her boss know if she needed to be off.
Not only was Jennifer missing, but so was her car. It's found two days later, parked in an apartment complex over a mile from her home and wiped clean. Jennifer Kesse has not been seen since 2006.
Now her uncle, Bill Gilmour, describes the restless nights since then and his emotional journey to find peace, in a new book "Aftermath of Jennifer Kesse’s Abduction: An Uncle’s Inspiring Journey and Other Stories of Hope."
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Bill Gilmour - Jennifer's Uncle, Author: "Aftermath of Jennifer Kesse’s Abduction: An Uncle’s Inspiring Journey & Other Stories of Hope" InspiringHopeDaily.com, Facebook.com/bgilmour1, Twitter: @InspireHopeBill
- Matthew Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Former Parole Board Member, Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States", MattMangino.com, Twitter: @MatthewTMangino
- Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, CarynStark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark"
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"
- Ray Caputo - Investigative Reporter (Orlando, FL), Professor, Bethune-Cookman University
TIPLINE: Federal Bureau of Investigation (866) 838-1153
Kesse Family Tip Line (941) 201-4009
JenniferKesse.comGoFundme.com/help-us-find-jennifer-kesse
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young girl striking
out on her own, has this awesome condo in Florida,
an awesome job, an awesome boyfriend, gets ready to go
to work one morning. If you look at her apartment,
you can see where she's laid out several outfits, trying
to figure out what to wear. But then she's never
(00:28):
seen again. Jennifer, What happened to Jennifer Kessey with me today?
Her family joining in not only with the latest about
a phantom figure that may have kidnapped Jennifer, but a
(00:51):
full on book written about the aftermath of her disappearance.
I mean, Nancy Grace, this is crime Story. Thank you
for being with us here at Fox Nation and series
exem one eleven. First of all, take a listen to
our friends. At forty eight hours, twenty four year old
Jennifer seemed to have everything going for her. She had
(01:13):
bought a brand new condo in Orlando, she'd been promoted
at work, and there was a new man in her life.
She was intelligent, she was captivating, She had a sense
of humor. One of the first conversations we had ended
up being like five hours. Rob Allen a thirty two
year old Englishman, lived two and a half hours away
in Fort Lauderdale. The couple had been dating for a
(01:35):
year and saw each other every other weekend. So glad
that Rob Allen is speaking out. Because of course, everyone
immediately assumed her disappearance was connected to her boyfriend, but
it was not. But she fails to show up to
work that morning, Listen, Jennifer failed to show up for
a meeting at work. Her co workers at Westgate Resorts
(01:59):
couldn't reach her on her cell phone or at home,
so they called her parents. I got the phone call
from her employer that she had not shown up. Was
there a family emergency? I immediately panicked because Jen's cell
phone has never been turned off. Joyce called the manager
of Jen's apartment complex. He went to her unit. Jennifer
(02:22):
wasn't there, neither was her car. You know, interesting that
she's not picking up her phone, because as it is now,
who is ever very far away from their phone, much
less a young person like Jennifer. Kessy with me an
I'll star panel, but first I want to go to
Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's beloved uncle who has taken part in
(02:48):
all of the efforts to find Jennifer after she goes
missing that morning on her way to work. He's now
coming out with a book, Aftermath of Jennifer, Cassie's Abduction,
and Uncle's Aspiring Journey and other stories of hope. Bill.
Do you remember when he first heard that Jennifer was missing. Yeah,
(03:09):
I'll never forget it. My sister had been trying. My
wife and I and our family lived in Lake Mary,
so we were about forty minutes from where jen lived
down in Orlando, and so she started calling me right
off the bat in the morning, but I was in
the air. I was traveling to New Jersey. We played
telephone tag and it wasn't until six o'clock that night
that I've learned, And of course we were just all stunned.
(03:33):
But at that point all we knew was she was missing.
She hadn't showed up for work. They by that time
they had arrived at the condo, and you know, it
was just in the early stages. I mean, everybody's hearts
were just palpainting. We just overwhelmed with what happened. And
there was never a point before that moment that Jennifer
had just flaked owun had disappeared for a weekend or
(03:55):
when I hear so this person just wanted space, wanted
to go out on her own. That was not Jennifer,
that's correct. I mean, Jennifer was one of these people
that so attentive and respectful. If she wasn't going to
be somewhere, she'd call let you know if she was
running late, even to the point in terms of security,
which is amazing that if she was leaving a mall
(04:17):
in the evening hours in dark, she would be on
the phone talking to somebody until she got into her
car and locked the door. That was you know that
she was very conscious of her surroundings. You know, that's
really interesting. You know, Bill Gilmore, and Jennifer's beloved uncle,
who has now after taking part in every aspect of
the search for Jennifer, actually written a book aftermath of
(04:39):
Jennifer Kessey's abduction. I didn't know that about Jennifer. I
didn't know that she was a safety, not like myself.
And it's so interesting. My son went to a little
school party get together and my daughter Na got a
chance to be alone last night and we went to
(05:00):
one of our favorite places for vegetables. We came out.
The sun hadn't quite set yet. But we got in
the car and my daughter, who's just forty he said, Mom,
remember locked the door, glanced in the backseat, and then
locked the door immediately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I did not know.
(05:21):
Jennifer was like that, tell me about that, because that really,
to me, is very probitive of how she was to
how she was kidnapped, right, And so that's why I
think that's what what was so concerning to us as
the family, I know, extremely frustrating my sister and brother
law at the time, was that they're trying to explain
to law enforcement that this is her character and it
wasn't just them. Her employer said the same thing. I mean,
(05:43):
numerous people were saying that, no, this is out of character,
but they wanted to focus on the narrative. It was
a young couple had a spat, she you know, just
kind of walked off on her own. Oh I hate that.
I hate that so much. Wait wait wait, wait, wait
wait wait is that true? Ray Kiputo, Ray Kaputo, everyone
invest to get every reporter out of Orlando, and professor
(06:06):
at Betane Cookman University, Ray Kaputo, I didn't realize that
that was their focus at the beginning, that she and
the boyfriend we just heard talking, Rob Allen, had had
an argument, so she just stomped off. Really, then, why
didn't she land all those clothes to go to work.
I mean, if you're going to stop off, why don't
you do it at seven o'clock in the morning for
(06:27):
Pete's sake? I mean, she was getting ready for work.
I didn't realize that was their focus at the beginning.
Ray Nancy like, that's the narrative that the couple had
a fight. But but here's the thing is that this
is a couple that just went on this tropical vacation
to Saint Croix. They were in a long term, a
long distance relationship, so they have this emotional rollercoaster high
(06:48):
being with all these friends in the beach and the sun.
You know, got some tom cruise guy flipping drinks, and
then Jennifer comes back and drives all the way to work.
You know. So they say it's a narrative of a
couple got in the flay. But Jennifer, which is in
a long distance relationship, so they had a bit of
a lover spat, you know, and that's not out of
the ordinary given their conditions. So they did have an argument.
(07:11):
They had what would rob called, you know, a minor disagreement,
you know, a spat between of spouses significant others. Okay,
hold on, why Karen start joining me? Psychologists joining us
out of Manhattan today? You can find her at karen
start dot com. That's Karen with a se Karen after
a lot of vacation, which is wonderful. But then I
(07:34):
heard him say an island. Then you come back with
your passports and you're tired, and then you get to
the airport, and then you go through the whole coming
into the country drama with your passport, and then you
have to find your luggage, and then you have to
drag your luggage to the car, and then you split
up and he goes one way, she goes the other.
(07:57):
I can understand why you would have an argument. I
can't tell you how many times David and I have
had it out over the baggage. Claims. Okay, it's just
because we're tired, the children are hungry and so forth
and so on. I mean, it happens even after this
incredible vacation you may have had. So I'm not putting
(08:19):
a whole lot of stock in that. But really, Karen Start,
the reality is he was in this town, she was
in another town. His digital footprints shows he stayed in
his home and that she disappeared from her home two
hours away. Argument or no argument by how much stock
do you put in a post vacation fuss? Well, not
(08:42):
at all, especially because they live in two different places.
So here they've had this wonderful experience together and then
they have to separate, and they haven't been able to
be together the whole time. So Karen Start, when they
get home, she spends the night at his place, She
goes all the way home the next morning to work.
The following morning is when she goes missing. He is
(09:06):
still at his home. She is at her home a
couple of hours away. But Karen Start, the point I
was trying to make is that, well, you and Mark,
you're very very happy. You travel a lot. When you travel,
do you ever get into spats over silly things? I'll
tell you something, Nancy, there was a whole article about
(09:29):
couples that fight when they're traveling, And because you're in
a new place, it's difficult. You're not used to the surroundings,
and you wind up getting into those kind of spats,
and it really is dispatch over things that are nonsensical.
So whether they thought there during the trip or at
(09:50):
the end of the trip, it seems to me from
reading this information and watching it that the only reason
they were turning to him is because the first suspect
is always the boyfriend or the husband, no other reason,
you know. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jackson
State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
(10:12):
He's a star of a new hit series on iHeart
Body Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott all the YadA,
YadA YadA about did they argue about the travel. It's
really irrelevant because the forensics show he was in one
town and she was in another town when she was kidnapped. Yeah. Yeah,
(10:32):
And you have to have a start starting point though,
with any investigation, and it always starts with those that
are in the intimate circle. And then once those individuals
are eliminated, and when you can actually verify that this subject,
this boyfriend, was in a completely different area geographically, then
he lessens, he lessens in importance on this continuum that
(10:57):
we have in investigations, and then you begin to focus
on the area where she was actually physically last seen,
in those environments that she's very familiar with crime stories
(11:20):
with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a brand new
book that's coming out written by Jennifer Kessie's uncle, who
was there in the hours and days following her disappearance.
She seemingly had it all on u condo. She was
(11:40):
living him, wonderful jobs, she just got promoted, absolutely stunning, vibrant, happy,
just one of those really good people that emanate happiness,
nice to other people, a joy to be with. And
then suddenly it says she just drops off the face
(12:01):
of the earth. Take a listen to what her mom,
Joyce Kessie tells me. It's Cassie, what more can you
tell me about what time? If you know that she
would contact her boyfriend in the morning, jen typically left
work between seven thirty and eight in the morning, and
it was her habit to call Rob when she got
(12:23):
in her car, So as she got in her car
and was driving to work is when she would make
that good morning call. And as we know, Rob never
received that call. And brother loganis in as well. Take
a listen to our friends. At forty eight hours, I
was just like, oh my god, oh my god, this
(12:45):
can't be happening. A mother called her crying. I was hysterical,
she said, Jens, Miss, I'm like, what are you talking about?
Who goes? She hasn't shut off for work. Jennifer's parents
and her brother Logan, raced the two hours from their
home in Bradington, Florida, to Jen's condo. You go inside,
what did you see? The clean apartment, shower was wet,
blow dryer out, and Jennifer's father tells nay more, listen, Drew, Cassie,
(13:12):
you get the news that Jennifer did not report to work.
You tell me that you immediately jump in the car
and drive our plus to get to her condo. Sure?
Will you approach the condo complex? Everything was normal to us.
We got up to the guard gate and we got
(13:33):
let in ue quite quickly. They really don't take a
lot of implement. Anyone who had a pass key who
lived there could come through on the right side. It
looked like she slept in her bed. She had two
or three outfits laid out on the bed, as if
she was choosing an outfit. To wear. She as was stated,
the bathroom looked like someone got ready to go to work.
(13:55):
The rest of the condo was just perfect data honestly
looked like a maid came through, right down to a
full setting, four p setting table setting on her dining
room table too. High profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former district attorney,
former Parole board member and author of The Executioner's Toll. Matthew,
(14:15):
thank you for being with us. Several things. Number One, first,
suspects always the boyfriend. He's ruled out. Number Two, the
pristine nature of the condo when the family goes in
tells me nothing happened in that condo and that that's
(14:35):
not where the struggle occurred. Upstairs, you can see the
shower is still damp from when she took a shower
that morning. In a case like that, as a district attorney,
what do you do next? Well, Nancy, you know, it's
an unfortunate reality that when police or district attorney law
(14:59):
enforcement here's about a missing person, there's always a bit
of skepticism. They don't act immediately. They want to know,
you know what the circumstances where. I think that's why
the spat with the boyfriend may have been important to
them because they think maybe this is just someone who's
upset and you know, went off to reflect and they'll
(15:23):
be back. But that's unfortunate because that time immediately after
a person goes missing is so important and so crucial
to try to get as much evidence as you can
in terms of canvassing. What did people see, you know,
what did they see her in her car? Did they
see her car move? You know, you know it didn't
happen in that room or in that apartment because it's
(15:46):
not in disarray, so you know it happened immediately if
something did happen outside of that apartment. So talking to
neighbors and other people with me, Bill Gilmore and Jennifer's
uncle and author Aftermath of Jennifer Kess These Abduction coming out. Bill,
tell me about those hours and what you were learning
(16:09):
about her condo and her disappearance. Well, I mean I
arrived there the next morning because I was up in
New Jersey, so I was able to find went directly
from the airport to the condo, and obviously family and
friends who were gathering we were all trying to make
sense of it and begin to plan just for the
missing persons, right, you know, get posters made and started
hitting corners and knocking on doors and that type of thing.
(16:32):
But yeah, as Drew and Logan and Joyce of all said,
I mean, this was just that condo was like any
of ours. In the morning, somebody came by and we
were in every on our way out the door, you know,
looking at outfits or whatever. Just would be just a
normal environment. So the gentleman that just spoke is one
hundred percent correct. I mean, nothing happened in the condo.
So it was somewhere between the door which he left
(16:53):
that door and went to the car. And of course,
the way that the condos were all under conversion from
a apartments to the condo units, there weren't I don't
think but a couple of people that were in her building.
These were open breezeways to the staircases on either side.
So I mean somebody could be easily in that area
and you wouldn't necessarily know it. I'm trying to imagine
(17:16):
those moments when you get there, when you touched down
in Orlando and you get to the condo, what was
the same. Oh well, I mean my heart was racing
I think like everybody else was, We're just sitting there
trying to make sense out of what had just happened,
and then what do we do? So we obviously just
you just begin to do the things that just makes
sense and try to get awareness. Drew has done a
(17:38):
massable drive, as you well know, and making sure that
Jennifer's story remains in the public eye because someone out
there knows something, and it's just a matter of ultimately
having those people come forward. But the emotion that for
all of us was just we just have to do
whatever we could. And that was for two days. So
from Tuesday, all day Wednesday until the morning of third
(18:00):
we were we just thought she was missing, so we're
looking for her car. I'm trying to imagine the tension
in the air, and the mom and the dad and
you just doing whatever you could think of, making flyers,
putting up posters, going door to door, all with the
cloud hanging over you that the cars were insisting she
(18:21):
had had a spat over nothing with her boyfriend and stopped.
Oh no, working with that misconception arching over the investigation
didn't help a thing. But as you said, suddenly the
car is found. Take a listen to our friend at CBS.
Two days after Jennifer went missing, her car was found
(18:44):
in an apartment complex parking lot about a mile away
from where she lived. But there was no sign of
Jennifer and no conclusive DNA. But this surveillance video showed
a person parking her car at noon on the day
she disappeared being hit with a ton of bricks. The
phantom figure then walked away in the direction of Jennifer's complex.
(19:06):
The person was so casual, Like to Bill Gilmore, this
is Jennifer's uncle, an author of an upcoming book, Aftermath
of Jennifer Kessey's Abduction. Bill, tell me about that video. Yeah,
that was the luckiest person in the world. And of course,
the technology at the time when those videos of valence
cameras or graining, but they were every other second clips,
(19:29):
so there was a fence that that person walked by,
and every other frame there was a fence post that
was partially blocking their image. Now, for most of us,
if you actually knew that person, there was enough that
you would identify them. But obviously we didn't know who
that person is, and so we've all we've said many times,
there's two people that are missing because we have never
(19:51):
have come across any information having to do with that
person nor Jennifer. So two people, the person of interest
in that video and Jennifer did this phantom figure kidnap
an all American girl, Jennifer Kessie Straight back out to
Ray Kaputo, investigative reporter joining us out of Orlando. Ray again,
(20:13):
thank you for being with us. Tell me about that
parking lot and what we know about this so called
phantom figure and also her car. This guy parked her car.
Are there no Prince, no DNA, nothing none. Nancy, her
car was found not too far from her own apartment complex,
but it was on American of Boulevard. Now, she lived
(20:34):
right by this great mall, a lot of tourists coming
and going, but right down the street the neighborhood gets sketchy.
So this car is pulled into this parking werenot where
I've heard they found numerous stolen cars. It's a higher
crime area. The person in the car sat there for
approximately thirty two seconds before getting out, and police presumed
(20:55):
that he may have wiped down the car. Got rid
of evidence because they found really nothing. They a fiber
and a small fiber of evidence, No, Prince, I mean,
Whoeber committed this crime. Whoeber was in that car, perhaps
knew what they were doing because they watched no evidence.
You know. Amazingly, the surrealist video took a photo every
(21:16):
three seconds, catching this so called phantom figure, and every
three seconds, each time the person's face was obstructed by
a recurring fence post. There is a wrought iron fence
with thin steaks going up, and then every let's just
(21:36):
say ten or fifteen wrought iron steaks is a post.
And every time the video surrels took a picture, the
person's face was obstructed by that recurring post. Jennifer's father
tells me more listen from that spot drew from her
(21:57):
condo to where the car was found. I want to
talk about the area where the car was found. Was
it part at any kind of a business where there
could be surveillance video and in that mile stretch. Florida
is notorious for all of its tolls, tolls everywhere you go.
You gotta have that easy pass at Sunshine Pass, So
(22:18):
were there any tolls? Were there any red lights that
may have had a red light camera between oh and
the gate? Was there a camera at the gate. What
do we know about that one mile stretch drew Cassie
between Jennifer's condominium, her brand new condominium, and where her
black Malibu was found. What we know at this time is,
(22:42):
at first there was no cameras. Unfortunately, new cameras went
up in Jennifer's complex two weeks after she was taken.
We also know that two weeks prior to Jennifer taking
the entire security force was let go at the complex
and new security was taken on because USO to change
from a rental to an ownership situation. The miles stretched
(23:05):
in between. There were no cameras in between the one
point two miles except four at the complex where Jennifer's
car was dropped. Now, we do have in our possession
sixty seven hours of film that law enforcement was able
to obtain from anywhere in any place they thought viable.
(23:27):
And unfortunately the big box like Walgreens, CVS, the gas station,
their cameras only made it as far as their parking lots,
didn't even make it to like the sidewalks. So it's
unfortunately anything that we have outside The only viable film
that we have is what you see on Jennifer's website
(23:48):
and what have you of a person parking her car,
sitting in at thirty two seconds, wiping it down, getting out,
walking away, never looking back. Okay, I'm bringing in the
big guns. Joseph Scott Morgan joined me, professor forensics and
death investigator. Just got extra really hard for me to believe.
This guy did not leave any plants, did not leave
any DNA, nothing behind in that car. Yeah, it is.
(24:11):
And when you take a look at the image of
him walking by these fence posts, you know, and you
begin to look at how he's dressed. It's not like
he's got on long sleeves. He's you know, we're talking
about Florida obviously, but he's got on what appeared to
be maybe white pants, low quarter shoes. They're not work boots.
(24:32):
He's got on a short sleeved shirt, which means that
you've got bare skin running up to almost the elbow
where you've got the potential for transfer of evidence in
the form of maybe perhaps touch DNA or sweat or
hair something like that that could transferred. He's not wearing gloves,
and this is something else. It's kind of interesting about
(24:52):
the image that you see as he's walking by his hair.
It appears it looks as though you can see the
back of his head. It looks as though he's either
got like a bowl cut or his hair is pulled
up in like what would be a man bun. It's
kind of bulging out on the rear, so you think that,
you know, we're not talking about a bald guy here.
(25:13):
To me, it looks shaved up on the side from
the neck up above the ear, right behind the ear,
and then it comes out like you're saying in a bag.
You know, it does. Another issue regarding the car and
the surveillance video, we get more information aside from those
(25:34):
two leads. Take a listen to our friend Peter van Zant.
The person could not be identified because the surveillance video
captured a photo every three seconds, and each time the
figure's face was obstructed by a fence post. That Kessie's
recruited private investigator Michael Tretta to help them conduct their
own investigation. Tretta learned from speaking with people who lived
(25:58):
in Jennifer's complex that construction workers were living in an
empty apartment just across from Jennifer. Okay, straight out to
Jennifer's uncle joining us, Bill Gilmore, who has just completed
an upcoming book aftermath of Jennifer Cassie's abduction. It took
the family having to hire a private investigator to find
(26:22):
out construction workers were basically camping out in an empty
apartment straight across from Jennifer Cassie. Have you ever heard
the phrase we covet that which we see? Yes, I
mean that. The interesting thing was that we were on
that property for days and weeks, and we saw all
kinds of things, and we would bring into the law enforcement,
(26:43):
to the management, and everybody denied everything. They always claimed
that these folks weren't living on property, but it was
clearly obvious that they were. So Unfortunately, you know, at
every turn people just shut down and obviously considering potential
liability issues. We can understand why, but it doesn't help
when you're looking to find somebody and that your loved one.
(27:05):
It's amazing to me to Matthew Mangino joining us high profile,
a lawyer that did the condo community, the apartment community
not know that. I think several of these were illegal immigrants.
Undocumented immigrants. We're living in an empty apartment directly across
(27:27):
from Jennifer Cassey well, that's that's really troubling that you
would have these possibly undocumented workers living in an apartment
in a complex where you know other people are paying
rent and are expecting a certain level of safety and security,
and you know, we don't know how many people are
(27:49):
living in there, We don't know the identities of these people.
This is all, you know, dangerous to bring people who
you do, who you don't know, who you can't identify,
to live or sleep in an unused apartment in the complex.
I certainly don't think that the residents there would would
(28:09):
want that or appreciate that. In fact, you know, Jennifer
had moved into this complex because she thought it was
safe because it was a gated community, and now all
of a sudden, you know, possibly undocumented workers or living
in an apartment across the hall, and there's a problem
with that. I don't care where they're from, but I
(28:30):
care what their history is. And Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's uncle.
When you have people basically squatting in an apartment and
they're undocumented, I don't know if they've got a ripe
conviction back home from wherever they came. I don't know
if they've got a mansel or conviction or Sawdomy conviction.
I don't know, and I sure as heck don't want
(28:51):
them living across from one of my children. There's them
no way to trace them, we don't have their social
security or they're just seen, never a way to find
out who they are to question them about Jennifer's disappearance.
And isn't it true, Bill Gilmore, that Jennifer had actually
told her family she was uneasy, unhappy, nervous, felt intimidated
(29:17):
that all these guys were living right across from her. Well,
in terms of whether they were immediately across or not,
that I don't know, but I do know that the
workers that were coming into do a variety of maintenance
work and so forth. There was that leering, and she
was very concerned about the feeling that they were constantly
watching her. And she had called out, you know, to
(29:39):
my brother in law, I drew a few times on
that he obviously called management. So everybody was aware that
this was going on, and we then learned that there
were other females that lived in the complex that that
claimed the same thing. They felt the same way that
they were being blocked at and stared at and just
made to feel uncomfortable. You know how many times just
(30:01):
got Morgan Death investigator, have you handled a case? Many
that we have covered, And I'm thinking back many that
I investigated and prosecuted where the murder victims said, for instance,
if anything happens to me, he did it. It's almost
as if they have some kind of premonition. Here we
(30:21):
have Jennifer Kessey, this gorgeous young girl just starting out
in her life, telling her family and friends that the
workers there were making her feel very nervous and uneasy.
They were actually squatting, according to reports in the apartment complex. Yeah,
and you know you think about you think about this
(30:46):
as well. Many times workers like this will be very transient.
So if you've got a transient population where they're going
on to the next job site, for instance, you know
that work is done. And as Bill had mentioned just
a moment ago, there were a variety of things that
may have been being done around that area relative to
two types of construction. So you've got different trades. You know,
(31:09):
maybe you've got people that are doing ceramic, maybe you've
got people that are doing hanging, I don't know, sheet
rock or whatever, and those groups kind of come and
go I think my big question with this, and since
these workers have constantly come up, We've been covering this
for a long time now, did they go to the
people that are actually doing the contracting, you know, those individuals,
(31:32):
and really put their feet to the fire about who
they were bringing in to do these works, this work,
who were their points of contact along the way. They're
not going to cooperate, Bill Gilmore, not that just Goot
Morgan is wrong. He's right, but there isn't no way
that apartment complex or condo complex, whatever you're gonna call it,
(31:53):
is ever going to admit yeah, we knew undocumented workers,
workers were squatting there. They're never going to say that.
And that was one of the biggest frustrations is that
the things were so obvious. I mean, like, as the
other gentleman just said, there's panel vans all over the place,
and so you know, your mind immediately moves to the
fact that think if a panel van happened to be
(32:15):
parked right next to her car and she's coming out
of her complex and get ready where her back turned
opened up her own car, if the panel door was opened,
and again, this is going on every day, so you're
not necessarily paying attention to it because you're you're expecting
to see workers there, but they could have easily been
pulled into the van. And that was what concerned us
in the very beginning, is why weren't those people and
(32:36):
the contractors being looked at crime stories With Nancy Grace.
(32:57):
Jennifer's father, Drew tells me that Jennifer said, there are
a lot of workers here, and whenever I walk to
my car, they stop what they're doing and they just
look and stare at me. Walk into my car right there.
To Karen's stark, she's basically telling us from beyond the
(33:23):
grave what happened to her. That's right, Nancy, She's definitely
afraid of these men. And I wanted to add that
I'm pretty sure somebody else also complained. Did that? Then? Yes,
six other women, and they had keys. And I think
that one of them even had been working in Jennifer's
(33:44):
apartment or was familiar with it. What about that, Bill Gilmore,
Is that true one of them I was working in
her apartment? Well, they had I mean, obviously the folks
that are associated with the ownership, the people are doing
maintenance had keys to get in and out. Of the unit,
so they could be doing the maintenance work, you know
the punch list items that have been reported to them. Now,
typically they would give you advanced notice, but I think
(34:05):
there was an opportunity or two where they came when
she was still there unexpected, or stay when she was
in the condo. She was certainly made to feel uncomfortable
as well. Now, according to another woman that lived there
named Colleen, and we're not revealing her last name, she said,
and I quote, when I would come home from work,
there would be a large group of men outside drinking,
(34:29):
and whenever I would have to walk past them, there
would be comments or uncomfortable steers. It wasn't a great feeling.
I didn't like it. So we know that other women
were going through the same thing. Another phenomena. Bill Gilmour
is joining me. This is Jennifer's uncle who has just
(34:50):
completed a book about to come out aftermath of Jennifer,
Cassie's abduction and Uncle's inspiring journey and other stories of hope. Bill,
I have sound and I'm not happy to report this
that very often criminals will act when they're in a
group and do things they would never do on their own.
(35:13):
You get a group of these undocumented construction workers. They're squatting,
they're they're drinking, they're watching her back and forth, leering
insane comments. Two of them may attack Jennifer together, when
if they had been on their own, that would never
(35:33):
have happened. And I can imagine that that would be true. Again,
it's there's so much of this story that it's disturbing,
and here we are, almost seventeen years later, still talking
about it without really much in the way of answers,
And a lot of this should have been addressed in
those early days and weeks. Tell me what led you
to write your book bill Well number one. Immediately following that,
(35:58):
I took stock in my own life and I began
to realize that my life was an absolute mess. And
it's funny how they say that pain is God's megaphone.
It's true, and in this particular case, Jennifer's abduction just
brought me to my knees to begin to really reflect
on the things that were most important in my life.
And as I shared in the in the Fox News Racle,
(36:19):
literally I prayed for God to take my life because
I said I had made a mess of it. But
Jennifer deserved her life. She deserved to have the life
that she had planned, and as you had said earlier,
she had everything moving in the right direction. And so
soon after that, you know, I just began a journey
of life transformation. And then during COVID, of course, as
(36:42):
we were all sheltering in place and shut down and
physically isolated and socially distancing from people, I realized that
we are living in a time of escalation in terms
of help of this hopelessness, fear, anxiety, and I wanted
to be a person to inspire hope. And so that's
what really propelled me to write this book, is to
begin to share that despite the circumstances that we can
(37:06):
find ourselves in life, we can find our way through
to piece joy, hope, and I want to share that.
And I'm also sharing some stories of others that inspired
me along the less sixteen plus years as well. But
as I said to Joyce and Drew when I was
visiting with them back on July fourth week, that I
firmly believe that if this book can be read by
(37:28):
the people, the person or people that were directly involved
in Jennifer's case, that they would hopefully learn that despite
whatever it is that they've done, that does not mean
that's the last chapter of their life. They can be
redeemed and that they can certainly find a new beginning,
but they have to come clean and they have to
finish whatever the consequences are. But I will also say
(37:49):
to your listeners that there are so many there's thousands
of these stories, and so the impact is not just
for the people it's personal to me with Jennifer, but
also I would like to hope that somebody anywhere that's
involved in some type of humus crime would read this
and realize that no matter what you've done in life,
it can be restored, it can be rescued. Wow. Bill
(38:12):
Gilmore joining us. This is Jennifer's uncle, author of Aftermath
of Jennifer Kessy's Abduction. I pray that you are right,
Bill Gilmore. The tip line is eight six six eight
to three eight eleven fifty three eight six six eight
three eight eleven fifty three, or I advise the Kessie
(38:35):
family tip line nine four one two zero one four
zero zero nine repeat nine four one to zero one
four zero zero nine. There is a fifteen thousand dollars
Three Boys, Nancy Grace crime Story, Signing off good bye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young girl striking
out on her own, has this awesome condo in Florida,
an awesome job, an awesome boyfriend, gets ready to go
to work one morning. If you look at her apartment,
you can see where she's laid out several outfits, trying
to figure out what to wear. But then she's never
(00:28):
seen again. Jennifer, What happened to Jennifer Kessey with me today?
Her family joining in not only with the latest about
a phantom figure that may have kidnapped Jennifer, but a
(00:51):
full on book written about the aftermath of her disappearance.
I mean, Nancy Grace, this is crime Story. Thank you
for being with us here at Fox Nation and series
exem one eleven. First of all, take a listen to
our friends. At forty eight hours, twenty four year old
Jennifer seemed to have everything going for her. She had
(01:13):
bought a brand new condo in Orlando, she'd been promoted
at work, and there was a new man in her life.
She was intelligent, she was captivating, She had a sense
of humor. One of the first conversations we had ended
up being like five hours. Rob Allen a thirty two
year old Englishman, lived two and a half hours away
in Fort Lauderdale. The couple had been dating for a
(01:35):
year and saw each other every other weekend. So glad
that Rob Allen is speaking out. Because of course, everyone
immediately assumed her disappearance was connected to her boyfriend, but
it was not. But she fails to show up to
work that morning, Listen, Jennifer failed to show up for
a meeting at work. Her co workers at Westgate Resorts
(01:59):
couldn't reach her on her cell phone or at home,
so they called her parents. I got the phone call
from her employer that she had not shown up. Was
there a family emergency? I immediately panicked because Jen's cell
phone has never been turned off. Joyce called the manager
of Jen's apartment complex. He went to her unit. Jennifer
(02:22):
wasn't there, neither was her car. You know, interesting that
she's not picking up her phone, because as it is now,
who is ever very far away from their phone, much
less a young person like Jennifer. Kessy with me an
I'll star panel, but first I want to go to
Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's beloved uncle who has taken part in
(02:48):
all of the efforts to find Jennifer after she goes
missing that morning on her way to work. He's now
coming out with a book, Aftermath of Jennifer, Cassie's Abduction,
and Uncle's Aspiring Journey and other stories of hope. Bill.
Do you remember when he first heard that Jennifer was missing. Yeah,
(03:09):
I'll never forget it. My sister had been trying. My
wife and I and our family lived in Lake Mary,
so we were about forty minutes from where jen lived
down in Orlando, and so she started calling me right
off the bat in the morning, but I was in
the air. I was traveling to New Jersey. We played
telephone tag and it wasn't until six o'clock that night
that I've learned, And of course we were just all stunned.
(03:33):
But at that point all we knew was she was missing.
She hadn't showed up for work. They by that time
they had arrived at the condo, and you know, it
was just in the early stages. I mean, everybody's hearts
were just palpainting. We just overwhelmed with what happened. And
there was never a point before that moment that Jennifer
had just flaked owun had disappeared for a weekend or
(03:55):
when I hear so this person just wanted space, wanted
to go out on her own. That was not Jennifer,
that's correct. I mean, Jennifer was one of these people
that so attentive and respectful. If she wasn't going to
be somewhere, she'd call let you know if she was
running late, even to the point in terms of security,
which is amazing that if she was leaving a mall
(04:17):
in the evening hours in dark, she would be on
the phone talking to somebody until she got into her
car and locked the door. That was you know that
she was very conscious of her surroundings. You know, that's
really interesting. You know, Bill Gilmore, and Jennifer's beloved uncle,
who has now after taking part in every aspect of
the search for Jennifer, actually written a book aftermath of
(04:39):
Jennifer Kessey's abduction. I didn't know that about Jennifer. I
didn't know that she was a safety, not like myself.
And it's so interesting. My son went to a little
school party get together and my daughter Na got a
chance to be alone last night and we went to
(05:00):
one of our favorite places for vegetables. We came out.
The sun hadn't quite set yet. But we got in
the car and my daughter, who's just forty he said, Mom,
remember locked the door, glanced in the backseat, and then
locked the door immediately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I did not know.
(05:21):
Jennifer was like that, tell me about that, because that really,
to me, is very probitive of how she was to
how she was kidnapped, right, And so that's why I
think that's what what was so concerning to us as
the family, I know, extremely frustrating my sister and brother
law at the time, was that they're trying to explain
to law enforcement that this is her character and it
wasn't just them. Her employer said the same thing. I mean,
(05:43):
numerous people were saying that, no, this is out of character,
but they wanted to focus on the narrative. It was
a young couple had a spat, she you know, just
kind of walked off on her own. Oh I hate that.
I hate that so much. Wait wait wait, wait, wait
wait wait is that true? Ray Kiputo, Ray Kaputo, everyone
invest to get every reporter out of Orlando, and professor
(06:06):
at Betane Cookman University, Ray Kaputo, I didn't realize that
that was their focus at the beginning, that she and
the boyfriend we just heard talking, Rob Allen, had had
an argument, so she just stomped off. Really, then, why
didn't she land all those clothes to go to work.
I mean, if you're going to stop off, why don't
you do it at seven o'clock in the morning for
(06:27):
Pete's sake? I mean, she was getting ready for work.
I didn't realize that was their focus at the beginning.
Ray Nancy like, that's the narrative that the couple had
a fight. But but here's the thing is that this
is a couple that just went on this tropical vacation
to Saint Croix. They were in a long term, a
long distance relationship, so they have this emotional rollercoaster high
(06:48):
being with all these friends in the beach and the sun.
You know, got some tom cruise guy flipping drinks, and
then Jennifer comes back and drives all the way to work.
You know. So they say it's a narrative of a
couple got in the flay. But Jennifer, which is in
a long distance relationship, so they had a bit of
a lover spat, you know, and that's not out of
the ordinary given their conditions. So they did have an argument.
(07:11):
They had what would rob called, you know, a minor disagreement,
you know, a spat between of spouses significant others. Okay,
hold on, why Karen start joining me? Psychologists joining us
out of Manhattan today? You can find her at karen
start dot com. That's Karen with a se Karen after
a lot of vacation, which is wonderful. But then I
(07:34):
heard him say an island. Then you come back with
your passports and you're tired, and then you get to
the airport, and then you go through the whole coming
into the country drama with your passport, and then you
have to find your luggage, and then you have to
drag your luggage to the car, and then you split
up and he goes one way, she goes the other.
(07:57):
I can understand why you would have an argument. I
can't tell you how many times David and I have
had it out over the baggage. Claims. Okay, it's just
because we're tired, the children are hungry and so forth
and so on. I mean, it happens even after this
incredible vacation you may have had. So I'm not putting
(08:19):
a whole lot of stock in that. But really, Karen Start,
the reality is he was in this town, she was
in another town. His digital footprints shows he stayed in
his home and that she disappeared from her home two
hours away. Argument or no argument by how much stock
do you put in a post vacation fuss? Well, not
(08:42):
at all, especially because they live in two different places.
So here they've had this wonderful experience together and then
they have to separate, and they haven't been able to
be together the whole time. So Karen Start, when they
get home, she spends the night at his place, She
goes all the way home the next morning to work.
The following morning is when she goes missing. He is
(09:06):
still at his home. She is at her home a
couple of hours away. But Karen Start, the point I
was trying to make is that, well, you and Mark,
you're very very happy. You travel a lot. When you travel,
do you ever get into spats over silly things? I'll
tell you something, Nancy, there was a whole article about
(09:29):
couples that fight when they're traveling, And because you're in
a new place, it's difficult. You're not used to the surroundings,
and you wind up getting into those kind of spats,
and it really is dispatch over things that are nonsensical.
So whether they thought there during the trip or at
(09:50):
the end of the trip, it seems to me from
reading this information and watching it that the only reason
they were turning to him is because the first suspect
is always the boyfriend or the husband, no other reason,
you know. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jackson
State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
(10:12):
He's a star of a new hit series on iHeart
Body Backs with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott all the YadA,
YadA YadA about did they argue about the travel. It's
really irrelevant because the forensics show he was in one
town and she was in another town when she was kidnapped. Yeah. Yeah,
(10:32):
And you have to have a start starting point though,
with any investigation, and it always starts with those that
are in the intimate circle. And then once those individuals
are eliminated, and when you can actually verify that this subject,
this boyfriend, was in a completely different area geographically, then
he lessens, he lessens in importance on this continuum that
(10:57):
we have in investigations, and then you begin to focus
on the area where she was actually physically last seen,
in those environments that she's very familiar with crime stories
(11:20):
with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a brand new
book that's coming out written by Jennifer Kessie's uncle, who
was there in the hours and days following her disappearance.
She seemingly had it all on u condo. She was
(11:40):
living him, wonderful jobs, she just got promoted, absolutely stunning, vibrant, happy,
just one of those really good people that emanate happiness,
nice to other people, a joy to be with. And
then suddenly it says she just drops off the face
(12:01):
of the earth. Take a listen to what her mom,
Joyce Kessie tells me. It's Cassie, what more can you
tell me about what time? If you know that she
would contact her boyfriend in the morning, jen typically left
work between seven thirty and eight in the morning, and
it was her habit to call Rob when she got
(12:23):
in her car, So as she got in her car
and was driving to work is when she would make
that good morning call. And as we know, Rob never
received that call. And brother loganis in as well. Take
a listen to our friends. At forty eight hours, I
was just like, oh my god, oh my god, this
(12:45):
can't be happening. A mother called her crying. I was hysterical,
she said, Jens, Miss, I'm like, what are you talking about?
Who goes? She hasn't shut off for work. Jennifer's parents
and her brother Logan, raced the two hours from their
home in Bradington, Florida, to Jen's condo. You go inside,
what did you see? The clean apartment, shower was wet,
blow dryer out, and Jennifer's father tells nay more, listen, Drew, Cassie,
(13:12):
you get the news that Jennifer did not report to work.
You tell me that you immediately jump in the car
and drive our plus to get to her condo. Sure?
Will you approach the condo complex? Everything was normal to us.
We got up to the guard gate and we got
(13:33):
let in ue quite quickly. They really don't take a
lot of implement. Anyone who had a pass key who
lived there could come through on the right side. It
looked like she slept in her bed. She had two
or three outfits laid out on the bed, as if
she was choosing an outfit. To wear. She as was stated,
the bathroom looked like someone got ready to go to work.
(13:55):
The rest of the condo was just perfect data honestly
looked like a maid came through, right down to a
full setting, four p setting table setting on her dining
room table too. High profile lawyer Matthew Mangino, former district attorney,
former Parole board member and author of The Executioner's Toll. Matthew,
(14:15):
thank you for being with us. Several things. Number One, first,
suspects always the boyfriend. He's ruled out. Number Two, the
pristine nature of the condo when the family goes in
tells me nothing happened in that condo and that that's
(14:35):
not where the struggle occurred. Upstairs, you can see the
shower is still damp from when she took a shower
that morning. In a case like that, as a district attorney,
what do you do next? Well, Nancy, you know, it's
an unfortunate reality that when police or district attorney law
(14:59):
enforcement here's about a missing person, there's always a bit
of skepticism. They don't act immediately. They want to know,
you know what the circumstances where. I think that's why
the spat with the boyfriend may have been important to
them because they think maybe this is just someone who's
upset and you know, went off to reflect and they'll
(15:23):
be back. But that's unfortunate because that time immediately after
a person goes missing is so important and so crucial
to try to get as much evidence as you can
in terms of canvassing. What did people see, you know,
what did they see her in her car? Did they
see her car move? You know, you know it didn't
happen in that room or in that apartment because it's
(15:46):
not in disarray, so you know it happened immediately if
something did happen outside of that apartment. So talking to
neighbors and other people with me, Bill Gilmore and Jennifer's
uncle and author Aftermath of Jennifer Kess These Abduction coming out. Bill,
tell me about those hours and what you were learning
(16:09):
about her condo and her disappearance. Well, I mean I
arrived there the next morning because I was up in
New Jersey, so I was able to find went directly
from the airport to the condo, and obviously family and
friends who were gathering we were all trying to make
sense of it and begin to plan just for the
missing persons, right, you know, get posters made and started
hitting corners and knocking on doors and that type of thing.
(16:32):
But yeah, as Drew and Logan and Joyce of all said,
I mean, this was just that condo was like any
of ours. In the morning, somebody came by and we
were in every on our way out the door, you know,
looking at outfits or whatever. Just would be just a
normal environment. So the gentleman that just spoke is one
hundred percent correct. I mean, nothing happened in the condo.
So it was somewhere between the door which he left
(16:53):
that door and went to the car. And of course,
the way that the condos were all under conversion from
a apartments to the condo units, there weren't I don't
think but a couple of people that were in her building.
These were open breezeways to the staircases on either side.
So I mean somebody could be easily in that area
and you wouldn't necessarily know it. I'm trying to imagine
(17:16):
those moments when you get there, when you touched down
in Orlando and you get to the condo, what was
the same. Oh well, I mean my heart was racing
I think like everybody else was, We're just sitting there
trying to make sense out of what had just happened,
and then what do we do? So we obviously just
you just begin to do the things that just makes
sense and try to get awareness. Drew has done a
(17:38):
massable drive, as you well know, and making sure that
Jennifer's story remains in the public eye because someone out
there knows something, and it's just a matter of ultimately
having those people come forward. But the emotion that for
all of us was just we just have to do
whatever we could. And that was for two days. So
from Tuesday, all day Wednesday until the morning of third
(18:00):
we were we just thought she was missing, so we're
looking for her car. I'm trying to imagine the tension
in the air, and the mom and the dad and
you just doing whatever you could think of, making flyers,
putting up posters, going door to door, all with the
cloud hanging over you that the cars were insisting she
(18:21):
had had a spat over nothing with her boyfriend and stopped.
Oh no, working with that misconception arching over the investigation
didn't help a thing. But as you said, suddenly the
car is found. Take a listen to our friend at CBS.
Two days after Jennifer went missing, her car was found
(18:44):
in an apartment complex parking lot about a mile away
from where she lived. But there was no sign of
Jennifer and no conclusive DNA. But this surveillance video showed
a person parking her car at noon on the day
she disappeared being hit with a ton of bricks. The
phantom figure then walked away in the direction of Jennifer's complex.
(19:06):
The person was so casual, Like to Bill Gilmore, this
is Jennifer's uncle, an author of an upcoming book, Aftermath
of Jennifer Kessey's Abduction. Bill, tell me about that video. Yeah,
that was the luckiest person in the world. And of course,
the technology at the time when those videos of valence
cameras or graining, but they were every other second clips,
(19:29):
so there was a fence that that person walked by,
and every other frame there was a fence post that
was partially blocking their image. Now, for most of us,
if you actually knew that person, there was enough that
you would identify them. But obviously we didn't know who
that person is, and so we've all we've said many times,
there's two people that are missing because we have never
(19:51):
have come across any information having to do with that
person nor Jennifer. So two people, the person of interest
in that video and Jennifer did this phantom figure kidnap
an all American girl, Jennifer Kessie Straight back out to
Ray Kaputo, investigative reporter joining us out of Orlando. Ray again,
(20:13):
thank you for being with us. Tell me about that
parking lot and what we know about this so called
phantom figure and also her car. This guy parked her car.
Are there no Prince, no DNA, nothing none. Nancy, her
car was found not too far from her own apartment complex,
but it was on American of Boulevard. Now, she lived
(20:34):
right by this great mall, a lot of tourists coming
and going, but right down the street the neighborhood gets sketchy.
So this car is pulled into this parking werenot where
I've heard they found numerous stolen cars. It's a higher
crime area. The person in the car sat there for
approximately thirty two seconds before getting out, and police presumed
(20:55):
that he may have wiped down the car. Got rid
of evidence because they found really nothing. They a fiber
and a small fiber of evidence, No, Prince, I mean,
Whoeber committed this crime. Whoeber was in that car, perhaps
knew what they were doing because they watched no evidence.
You know. Amazingly, the surrealist video took a photo every
(21:16):
three seconds, catching this so called phantom figure, and every
three seconds, each time the person's face was obstructed by
a recurring fence post. There is a wrought iron fence
with thin steaks going up, and then every let's just
(21:36):
say ten or fifteen wrought iron steaks is a post.
And every time the video surrels took a picture, the
person's face was obstructed by that recurring post. Jennifer's father
tells me more listen from that spot drew from her
(21:57):
condo to where the car was found. I want to
talk about the area where the car was found. Was
it part at any kind of a business where there
could be surveillance video and in that mile stretch. Florida
is notorious for all of its tolls, tolls everywhere you go.
You gotta have that easy pass at Sunshine Pass, So
(22:18):
were there any tolls? Were there any red lights that
may have had a red light camera between oh and
the gate? Was there a camera at the gate. What
do we know about that one mile stretch drew Cassie
between Jennifer's condominium, her brand new condominium, and where her
black Malibu was found. What we know at this time is,
(22:42):
at first there was no cameras. Unfortunately, new cameras went
up in Jennifer's complex two weeks after she was taken.
We also know that two weeks prior to Jennifer taking
the entire security force was let go at the complex
and new security was taken on because USO to change
from a rental to an ownership situation. The miles stretched
(23:05):
in between. There were no cameras in between the one
point two miles except four at the complex where Jennifer's
car was dropped. Now, we do have in our possession
sixty seven hours of film that law enforcement was able
to obtain from anywhere in any place they thought viable.
(23:27):
And unfortunately the big box like Walgreens, CVS, the gas station,
their cameras only made it as far as their parking lots,
didn't even make it to like the sidewalks. So it's
unfortunately anything that we have outside The only viable film
that we have is what you see on Jennifer's website
(23:48):
and what have you of a person parking her car,
sitting in at thirty two seconds, wiping it down, getting out,
walking away, never looking back. Okay, I'm bringing in the
big guns. Joseph Scott Morgan joined me, professor forensics and
death investigator. Just got extra really hard for me to believe.
This guy did not leave any plants, did not leave
any DNA, nothing behind in that car. Yeah, it is.
(24:11):
And when you take a look at the image of
him walking by these fence posts, you know, and you
begin to look at how he's dressed. It's not like
he's got on long sleeves. He's you know, we're talking
about Florida obviously, but he's got on what appeared to
be maybe white pants, low quarter shoes. They're not work boots.
(24:32):
He's got on a short sleeved shirt, which means that
you've got bare skin running up to almost the elbow
where you've got the potential for transfer of evidence in
the form of maybe perhaps touch DNA or sweat or
hair something like that that could transferred. He's not wearing gloves,
and this is something else. It's kind of interesting about
(24:52):
the image that you see as he's walking by his hair.
It appears it looks as though you can see the
back of his head. It looks as though he's either
got like a bowl cut or his hair is pulled
up in like what would be a man bun. It's
kind of bulging out on the rear, so you think that,
you know, we're not talking about a bald guy here.
(25:13):
To me, it looks shaved up on the side from
the neck up above the ear, right behind the ear,
and then it comes out like you're saying in a bag.
You know, it does. Another issue regarding the car and
the surveillance video, we get more information aside from those
(25:34):
two leads. Take a listen to our friend Peter van Zant.
The person could not be identified because the surveillance video
captured a photo every three seconds, and each time the
figure's face was obstructed by a fence post. That Kessie's
recruited private investigator Michael Tretta to help them conduct their
own investigation. Tretta learned from speaking with people who lived
(25:58):
in Jennifer's complex that construction workers were living in an
empty apartment just across from Jennifer. Okay, straight out to
Jennifer's uncle joining us, Bill Gilmore, who has just completed
an upcoming book aftermath of Jennifer Cassie's abduction. It took
the family having to hire a private investigator to find
(26:22):
out construction workers were basically camping out in an empty
apartment straight across from Jennifer Cassie. Have you ever heard
the phrase we covet that which we see? Yes, I
mean that. The interesting thing was that we were on
that property for days and weeks, and we saw all
kinds of things, and we would bring into the law enforcement,
(26:43):
to the management, and everybody denied everything. They always claimed
that these folks weren't living on property, but it was
clearly obvious that they were. So Unfortunately, you know, at
every turn people just shut down and obviously considering potential
liability issues. We can understand why, but it doesn't help
when you're looking to find somebody and that your loved one.
(27:05):
It's amazing to me to Matthew Mangino joining us high profile,
a lawyer that did the condo community, the apartment community
not know that. I think several of these were illegal immigrants.
Undocumented immigrants. We're living in an empty apartment directly across
(27:27):
from Jennifer Cassey well, that's that's really troubling that you
would have these possibly undocumented workers living in an apartment
in a complex where you know other people are paying
rent and are expecting a certain level of safety and security,
and you know, we don't know how many people are
(27:49):
living in there, We don't know the identities of these people.
This is all, you know, dangerous to bring people who
you do, who you don't know, who you can't identify,
to live or sleep in an unused apartment in the complex.
I certainly don't think that the residents there would would
(28:09):
want that or appreciate that. In fact, you know, Jennifer
had moved into this complex because she thought it was
safe because it was a gated community, and now all
of a sudden, you know, possibly undocumented workers or living
in an apartment across the hall, and there's a problem
with that. I don't care where they're from, but I
(28:30):
care what their history is. And Bill Gilmore, Jennifer's uncle.
When you have people basically squatting in an apartment and
they're undocumented, I don't know if they've got a ripe
conviction back home from wherever they came. I don't know
if they've got a mansel or conviction or Sawdomy conviction.
I don't know, and I sure as heck don't want
(28:51):
them living across from one of my children. There's them
no way to trace them, we don't have their social
security or they're just seen, never a way to find
out who they are to question them about Jennifer's disappearance.
And isn't it true, Bill Gilmore, that Jennifer had actually
told her family she was uneasy, unhappy, nervous, felt intimidated
(29:17):
that all these guys were living right across from her. Well,
in terms of whether they were immediately across or not,
that I don't know, but I do know that the
workers that were coming into do a variety of maintenance
work and so forth. There was that leering, and she
was very concerned about the feeling that they were constantly
watching her. And she had called out, you know, to
(29:39):
my brother in law, I drew a few times on
that he obviously called management. So everybody was aware that
this was going on, and we then learned that there
were other females that lived in the complex that that
claimed the same thing. They felt the same way that
they were being blocked at and stared at and just
made to feel uncomfortable. You know how many times just
(30:01):
got Morgan Death investigator, have you handled a case? Many
that we have covered, And I'm thinking back many that
I investigated and prosecuted where the murder victims said, for instance,
if anything happens to me, he did it. It's almost
as if they have some kind of premonition. Here we
(30:21):
have Jennifer Kessey, this gorgeous young girl just starting out
in her life, telling her family and friends that the
workers there were making her feel very nervous and uneasy.
They were actually squatting, according to reports in the apartment complex. Yeah,
and you know you think about you think about this
(30:46):
as well. Many times workers like this will be very transient.
So if you've got a transient population where they're going
on to the next job site, for instance, you know
that work is done. And as Bill had mentioned just
a moment ago, there were a variety of things that
may have been being done around that area relative to
two types of construction. So you've got different trades. You know,
(31:09):
maybe you've got people that are doing ceramic, maybe you've
got people that are doing hanging, I don't know, sheet
rock or whatever, and those groups kind of come and
go I think my big question with this, and since
these workers have constantly come up, We've been covering this
for a long time now, did they go to the
people that are actually doing the contracting, you know, those individuals,
(31:32):
and really put their feet to the fire about who
they were bringing in to do these works, this work,
who were their points of contact along the way. They're
not going to cooperate, Bill Gilmore, not that just Goot
Morgan is wrong. He's right, but there isn't no way
that apartment complex or condo complex, whatever you're gonna call it,
(31:53):
is ever going to admit yeah, we knew undocumented workers,
workers were squatting there. They're never going to say that.
And that was one of the biggest frustrations is that
the things were so obvious. I mean, like, as the
other gentleman just said, there's panel vans all over the place,
and so you know, your mind immediately moves to the
fact that think if a panel van happened to be
(32:15):
parked right next to her car and she's coming out
of her complex and get ready where her back turned
opened up her own car, if the panel door was opened,
and again, this is going on every day, so you're
not necessarily paying attention to it because you're you're expecting
to see workers there, but they could have easily been
pulled into the van. And that was what concerned us
in the very beginning, is why weren't those people and
(32:36):
the contractors being looked at crime stories With Nancy Grace.
(32:57):
Jennifer's father, Drew tells me that Jennifer said, there are
a lot of workers here, and whenever I walk to
my car, they stop what they're doing and they just
look and stare at me. Walk into my car right there.
To Karen's stark, she's basically telling us from beyond the
(33:23):
grave what happened to her. That's right, Nancy, She's definitely
afraid of these men. And I wanted to add that
I'm pretty sure somebody else also complained. Did that? Then? Yes,
six other women, and they had keys. And I think
that one of them even had been working in Jennifer's
(33:44):
apartment or was familiar with it. What about that, Bill Gilmore,
Is that true one of them I was working in
her apartment? Well, they had I mean, obviously the folks
that are associated with the ownership, the people are doing
maintenance had keys to get in and out. Of the unit,
so they could be doing the maintenance work, you know
the punch list items that have been reported to them. Now,
typically they would give you advanced notice, but I think
(34:05):
there was an opportunity or two where they came when
she was still there unexpected, or stay when she was
in the condo. She was certainly made to feel uncomfortable
as well. Now, according to another woman that lived there
named Colleen, and we're not revealing her last name, she said,
and I quote, when I would come home from work,
there would be a large group of men outside drinking,
(34:29):
and whenever I would have to walk past them, there
would be comments or uncomfortable steers. It wasn't a great feeling.
I didn't like it. So we know that other women
were going through the same thing. Another phenomena. Bill Gilmour
is joining me. This is Jennifer's uncle who has just
(34:50):
completed a book about to come out aftermath of Jennifer,
Cassie's abduction and Uncle's inspiring journey and other stories of hope. Bill,
I have sound and I'm not happy to report this
that very often criminals will act when they're in a
group and do things they would never do on their own.
(35:13):
You get a group of these undocumented construction workers. They're squatting,
they're they're drinking, they're watching her back and forth, leering
insane comments. Two of them may attack Jennifer together, when
if they had been on their own, that would never
(35:33):
have happened. And I can imagine that that would be true. Again,
it's there's so much of this story that it's disturbing,
and here we are, almost seventeen years later, still talking
about it without really much in the way of answers,
And a lot of this should have been addressed in
those early days and weeks. Tell me what led you
to write your book bill Well number one. Immediately following that,
(35:58):
I took stock in my own life and I began
to realize that my life was an absolute mess. And
it's funny how they say that pain is God's megaphone.
It's true, and in this particular case, Jennifer's abduction just
brought me to my knees to begin to really reflect
on the things that were most important in my life.
And as I shared in the in the Fox News Racle,
(36:19):
literally I prayed for God to take my life because
I said I had made a mess of it. But
Jennifer deserved her life. She deserved to have the life
that she had planned, and as you had said earlier,
she had everything moving in the right direction. And so
soon after that, you know, I just began a journey
of life transformation. And then during COVID, of course, as
(36:42):
we were all sheltering in place and shut down and
physically isolated and socially distancing from people, I realized that
we are living in a time of escalation in terms
of help of this hopelessness, fear, anxiety, and I wanted
to be a person to inspire hope. And so that's
what really propelled me to write this book, is to
begin to share that despite the circumstances that we can
(37:06):
find ourselves in life, we can find our way through
to piece joy, hope, and I want to share that.
And I'm also sharing some stories of others that inspired
me along the less sixteen plus years as well. But
as I said to Joyce and Drew when I was
visiting with them back on July fourth week, that I
firmly believe that if this book can be read by
(37:28):
the people, the person or people that were directly involved
in Jennifer's case, that they would hopefully learn that despite
whatever it is that they've done, that does not mean
that's the last chapter of their life. They can be
redeemed and that they can certainly find a new beginning,
but they have to come clean and they have to
finish whatever the consequences are. But I will also say
(37:49):
to your listeners that there are so many there's thousands
of these stories, and so the impact is not just
for the people it's personal to me with Jennifer, but
also I would like to hope that somebody anywhere that's
involved in some type of humus crime would read this
and realize that no matter what you've done in life,
it can be restored, it can be rescued. Wow. Bill
(38:12):
Gilmore joining us. This is Jennifer's uncle, author of Aftermath
of Jennifer Kessy's Abduction. I pray that you are right,
Bill Gilmore. The tip line is eight six six eight
to three eight eleven fifty three eight six six eight
three eight eleven fifty three, or I advise the Kessie
(38:35):
family tip line nine four one two zero one four
zero zero nine repeat nine four one to zero one
four zero zero nine. There is a fifteen thousand dollars
Three Boys, Nancy Grace crime Story, Signing off good bye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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