August 10, 2025 • 39 mins
Jodi Arias stabs her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, 28 times, shoots him and leaves him to die in a shower. In 2025, she remains in jail, serving a life sentence for murder. Currently held at the Arizona State Prison Complex - Perryville, Arias is appealing her conviction, alleging prosecutorial misconduct and a biased atmosphere during the trial.
Nancy's expert panel weighs in:
- Judge Ashley Willcott: Judge & Trial Attorney
- Dr. Brian Russell: Host of "Fatal Vows" on ID
- Caryn Stark: Psychologist
- Alexis Tereszcuk: Entertainment editor at radaronline.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Why won't she go away? I'm talking about convicted killer
Jody Arius Oh, convicted in the brutal stab and death
of her lover Travis Alexander, stabbing him twenty nine to
thirty one times. There's an argument over that because there
were so many stab wounds they began to overlap each other,
(00:29):
and it's like stabbing Jillo. You can't really tell how
many times somebody's been stabbed when they've been stabbed that
many times, and then kept it off by shooting him
in the head, leaving her lover to decompose in his
own shower. Why even after the two had broken up,
she travels across many states in secret to have a
(00:53):
marathon sex session with him to convince him not to
take the new woman he's dating on a trip to Cankun. Well,
the sex marathon didn't work and he didn't cancel the
date to can Kun. So what's the girl to do?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Kill him as she did?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. He has Jody Arius
will not go away, and now she's set to launch,
a of course, dramatic bid to be freed from prison
after lover Travis. Alexander's brutal slang arias behind bars is
(01:34):
hinted at a dramatic new legal strategy hoping to get
her toe in the door to freedom after she was
sentenced to life behind bars in a gruesome murder. Of course,
she has her own substack, oh her and top mom.
In a disturbing new post on the substack, she writes,
(01:56):
one of her top priorities is pursuing r post conviction relief.
It's a legal maneuver that allows inmates to challenge their
convictions or sentences based on new evidence or constitutional violations. Okay, lady,
(02:17):
bring it on, because we have got an avalanche of
evidence that you murdered Travis. Joining me right now along
with Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder child Crimewatch dot com,
doctor Brian Russell, host of investigation discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows,
(02:39):
renowned New York psychologist Karen Stark. Alexis Terreschuk joining me
from RadarOnline dot com. Alexis why won't she go away?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Because she can't. She craves the attention of everybody. She
says that she wants to just do good behind bars.
But she doesn't. She still runs a Twitter account. She
still writes to her fans she cannot live outside of
the spotlight.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Let's go back in the courtroom. What happened to Alexis?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Jody Arius created a circus in the courtroom when she
took the stand. Everybody was stunned. I was, I know
you were. And she was on there for days spinning
her lies about Travis Alexander.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Alexis, what can you tell me about Travis Alexander in life?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
What was he like?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Travis was the nicest guy. He was a Mormon, the
religion that he had committed himself to as he was older,
and he was full of life. He had so many friends.
He was a respected business guy. He was the one
who had the whole house and had all the roommates.
So everybody depended on Travis take care of them, and
(03:45):
that's what he did. He took care of everybody. He
was funny, he was adventurous. He was always going on
trips and in fact, when he and Jody started dating,
they went on a live of trips together, fun trips
to waterfalls and to San Diego, lots of places. He
was an up and coming entrepreneur. He had his own
he was running his own business through the organization, and
(04:05):
he was really climbing up in the company because people
loved him. He had a quick smile. His sister just
said he was the nicest guy you would ever meet.
Everybody that met him said he was so nice. And
he was also struggling with his religion. He wanted to
follow Lieutenant s sterctly, but he also, like any other
young person in their late twenties early thirties, you know,
(04:25):
he wanted to have sex with his girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's interesting and I'm going to go to Kieran Stark
on this in a moment. But all of his friends
and family that knew her did not want him to
be with her. And I've questioned them about that repeatedly,
saying what was it about her? And they all said,
I don't know. It was just a freaky, hinky feeling.
She was just we just thought she was weird and crazy.
(04:50):
There was just something about her. Doctor Brian Russell, She's
many people believe beautiful. She got a beautiful face. Many
people think she's got a beautiful body. I don't find
her beautiful, but many people do. She's got tons of
people writing her and sending her money behind bars. The
thing is when Travis Alexander, who I understand at the
time was a devout Mormon, got tangled up with Jody Arius.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
At some point he wanted to break it off.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
He said things like he did not think they would
ever get married, he wanted to start dating other people.
She would have none of it. So she finds out
he's going on a trip to Cozaml with another woman,
and that just throws her into a fit. Drives literally
across the desert. She's moved away with all the gas
(05:39):
cans in her trunk so she doesn't have to stop
to use her credit card or be on a surveillance
video at a seven to eleven, gets to his home.
They have crazy fetish sex all day, complete with photos which.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Were played over and over and over at trial.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And then he still refuses to cancel the Cosaml date,
and when that happens, she stabs him twenty nine times
and shoots him in the head, leaving his body to
decompose in the shower. Help me out, Dr Brian Russell.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
I'm glad you just gave that rundown, Nancy, because you know,
if she said she'd killed him while he was beating her,
there'd be a self defense argument, but physical evidence from
the scene clearly suggested that didn't happen that way. I
never saw solid evidence that he'd ever beaten her.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Let's just look at the facts.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
As you accurately point out Dr Brian Russell, there were
many ways if it were indeed true, which no one
but Arias says.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
It's true. They were broken up.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
She had moved away, hours away.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
They were not living together. They were never married, they never.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Had children, nothing. They had a fling. He broke up,
she moved away, scorned, she left. She was living somewhere else,
had a brandy place to live, had a car, a job,
the works, and they'd been apart for a while. As
a matter of fact, I'm reading directly from the Aufe
Topsy report. Travis Alexander's jugular vein his throat was slit,
(07:06):
the common carotid artery, the trachea had been slashed. He
had defensive wounds on his hand. He may have even
been dead at the time she shot him in the head. Also,
the crime scene revealed that when he first was stabbed,
he realized he was dying. He stumbled to the bathroom
(07:27):
mirror and actually looked in the mirror as he was dying.
And we know this because of the blood evidence. There
were drops, not spatter, not throwback, not transfer, drops of
blood that dropped down from his neck and his nose
(07:48):
and his face onto the sink as he looked into
the mirror as he died, and he was left naked
and bloody, bleeding out in the shower. As a matter
of fact, it's really not even contested how he died.
Listened to Jody Arius at trial admitting she slit his throat.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Would you agree that you're the person who actually slid
mister Alexander's throat from ear to ear?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yes, to Ashley Wilcott, veteran trial lawyer and judge, it
gives me no pleasure to replay the rendition of how
Chavick Alexander was murdered. He didn't see it coming, He
had no idea what was about to happen. But we
(08:45):
also know Ashley that at the beginning she claimed that
she wasn't there, she had nothing to do with it
at all. Then when evidence turned up that she had
been there, she actually claimed that Ninja's showed up all
dressed in black and for no reason burst into the home,
(09:05):
stole nothing. She ran and saved her own life, but
they killed Travis and left like shadows in the night.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I mean, Ashley, really right?
Speaker 7 (09:15):
Really?
Speaker 8 (09:15):
So she was lying from the gig go obviously with
the story that she initially told with the ninjas. But
here's what I love about our justice system. During this trial,
it went from story to story to story to story.
But as you just played, finally on the stand under oath,
she admits she slit his throat period.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and just like this and just like that, and
then shot him. Cleaned up the scene as best she could,
put a lot of clothes in the washer, including her
digital camera. Hello, and on the camera to Karen Stark
were actual photos. She had been taking sex photos the
(09:58):
whole day. But forget about that. On the digital camera
that she left in the washing machine, our photos exit
we think accidentally taken during Travis's murder. Karen Starr, New
York psychologist, what about that This is.
Speaker 9 (10:17):
A person who really is not only a pathological liar,
but has absolutely no guilt about anything that happened and
documented it as.
Speaker 10 (10:29):
It was happening. Now, even if it was accidental somehow
she knew that she should wash things up, clean them up,
despite the ninjas or whatever she was saying, And she
very clearly is a psychopath who committed this murder. There
is no doubt in my mind that she knew exactly
what she was doing, and that it had to do
with rage and jealousy and her inability to let go.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Of this man. Alexistereschuk, writeronline dot com. You also covered
the case every single day. I was in the courtroom
almost every day and was broadcasting from a couple of
blocks away from the courthouse. The digital camera evidence, to me,
is overwhelming. It places her there at the time of
the murder, in the room with Travis.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
It does it's.
Speaker 11 (11:15):
Right up to and after she murders him. There are
pictures of him naked in the shower and got the
water running over him. He's looking directly at the camera.
These were not secret photos that he didn't know are
being taken. Then there's the picture of his foot in
the shower, and there's another picture of the blood on
the floor, and they're taking there's a timestamp, so you
can tell that they were taken just moments, literally less
(11:39):
than two minutes after he was alive in the shower,
she's taking pictures, and then he's dead when she went
into her frenzy, her spree killing spree, and stabbed him repeatedly.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And the thing was, she.
Speaker 11 (11:51):
Also shot him, but the bullet casing was found on
top of the blood. So what the evidence was presented
in court is that there's no way she should him first,
otherwise that would be on the bottom and be covered
with blood. It happened afterwards, and it wasn't disturbed, And
this is everything that was shown on her camera. She
didn't even take the camera with her. She's stuck it
in the washing machine.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
She left it there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
In the last Days, we learned convict the Killer Jody
Arius is set to launch a dramatic bid to be
freed after being convicted and her lover Travis Alexander's horrible,
horrible murder. It's called a PCR Post Conviction Relief petition,
(12:45):
possibly her most serious legal action since the end of
her trial and definitely a Hail Mary, a last ditch
try to overturn her conviction. Did I leave out the
part that his throat was cut so deeply the life
almost reached his spinal cord, much like Nicole Brown's areas
(13:07):
changed her story so many times. She ultimately went with
self defense after claiming she wasn't there, then claiming that
she was there and Ninja's broke in and murder Travis
and she miraculously got away to she did it, but
it was in self defense. Okay. She was sentenced to
(13:27):
life behind bars without the possibility of parole, and now
this in her substact post, Arias claims she's been quote
misunderstood and over sexualized since her trial. Wow, I wonder
whose fault that was. What do we know about Jody
(13:49):
Arias to Alexis Treschuk, Alexis, exactly where is Jody Arias housed?
Has she been moved? What's the name for her correctional facility?
And what do we know specifically about security there? Is
it a pod? Does she have a roommate cad? She
decorate her cell like a dorm room.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
So she is in the Perryville Prison. She has not
been moved. She entered there in twenty fifteen April thirteenth,
twenty fifteen, so she has been there just over four years.
It is a very standard twelve nine seven cell I
believe with a bed and a sink. She does not
have a roommate because it is a maximum security she
(14:32):
was convicted of murder in the first degree. She is classified.
She cannot have any movement, and she's had a review
every year since she's been there to maybe lower down
the classification level of her risk assessment. Never been lowered.
It's gone from a five to a four, which is
nothing at all. She's still in a maximum security prison.
(14:53):
She does not have a lot of freedom or free
free will to walk around to see other people. She
did a lot of herself, but she's can decorate her
cell and she also has a television and she is
able to watch TV and she watches it NonStop. And
she spends most of her time in solitary confinement. That's
the way this prison is designed in Arizona. It's a
pretty harsh prison for the worst of the killers in
(15:14):
the state. But she also has a job behind bars.
She has been working in the library, who works over
forty hours a week, but she makes a whopping forty
cents an hour.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Alex says, what can you tell me about Jody Arius's
life behind bars?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Is it true?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
She has dozens of love letters a day. Did nobody
see Travis Alexander's decomposing body in the shower? No matter
how many times I played it on HLN?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
What men is right mind.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Would seek out Jody Arius? What do they want to
be with a killer? Or do they think she's innocent?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
These people out there, these men are just bamboozled by
her hair. Used to be she used to be this
bleached blond, really bucksome girl. Now time bars she has
her natural brown hair, it's probably gray at this point,
and they write her obsessively. She even has said, I
cannot even respond to everybody who writes to me because
I got so many fan letters a day, dozens of them.
(16:13):
She has all the things that she buys from the
commentsary in there, so she buys tons and tons of
paper and envelopes so she can write to all of
her fans. And that people tell her they love her,
and they believe that she's innocent and that she's going
to get out, and then when she gets out that
they're going to maybe even get together with her. They
are just fans, Alexis.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
How do you know she's getting all these love letters?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
The prison has confirmed to us that she receives multiple letters,
and then she runs a Twitter account through a friend,
and that friend posts that people write to her all
the time.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Are these men sending her money? Are they insane?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Yes, people send her so much money they send her
They have to send it through the prison system, but
they have it because she has a huge fat account
in the jail commissary.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, So if they're sending her money, alexis Teresha, what
is she doing with it?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean, what's there to spend it on? Behind bars?
Speaker 4 (17:06):
She is spending all of her money at the commissary
on a variety of things. But the thing that struck
me the most is that she's buying toothbrushes, which Teresa
Judais told us that she learned when she was in
prison that that can be used as a sex toy.
Behind bars, she shops relentlessly at the canteen. She buys
(17:27):
him sardines, she buys Dorito's, she buys pudding, she buys desserts,
she buys cookies, shelfif buys Emo, which you know, can
treat her stomach problems. She buys pretzels, cookies, crackers, any
sort of junk food that is on there.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Jody is buying it Alexis I understand that she's treated
like a celebrity behind bars. What does that entail?
Speaker 4 (17:52):
She is quite popular behind bars. She is the one
that everybody goes to. She well. She claims that she
gives people. She buys things from the commentsary to give
to other people. The people behind bars are not as
lucky as she is. But there has been other inmates
who are also lost up the same prison. Who ever
reveals that people get invites with Jody and that she's
(18:13):
often mouthing off in the shared courtyard.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Is it true that she has privileges to get on
the internet, and if so, write the lovelorn men that
are contacting her.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
She does go the library. She actually works in the library.
She is a library aid and she has said that
the library books in this prison are just terrible. So
she's asked people. She started book drives behind bars to
ask people to send things that people would want to read.
But the prison is very strict about what you can get,
and so there are many mostly religious books and probably
(18:47):
what you would call smut books, you know, romance books.
She does not have access to the internet, but she
speaks with folks on the outside that do have access
to the Internet, so that's how she keeps in touch
with everybody through her Twitter account and the love letter.
She could write as many as she wants, and she
just has to buy stamps. But she has basically unlimited
(19:08):
funds in her account, so she is able to buy
the stamps to send letters back to everybody that writes
to her. But she has often said I can't write
to everybody, as if she has anything else to do.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Unless Terreschuk, what can you tell me about claims that
she gets privileges behind bars.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Jody Arius does not get any special privileges behind bars,
but because she cannot behave. In fact, she was disciplined
within her first couple of months of being there. She
yelled at a guard and called the guard a cup
blocker because he wouldn't let her get a haircut that
she wanted, even though she had no privileges to get
a haircut. And then when she was disciplined, she said, oh,
I didn't know that that word was a bad word.
(19:46):
I just looked it up in the airban dictionary. So
she was just fun for months on end. She lost
her visitation privileges.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I understand that Jodie Arius perceives herself to be quite
the artiste, okay, and she could be selling her art online.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Let me say, is that still true? Because I've seen
some of it. To me, it looks like she's just
tracing pictures out of magazines, but that I'm no art critic, Alexis.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
You tell me.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Jody Arius was drawing so many pieces of art, and
you are right, they did look like she traced things
because it was such an exact copy of things for magazines, ads,
and even in one picture everybody thought it was just
like Travis Alexander's sister, which was so disrespectful. But since
she has been in this prison, she's not allowed to
sell it or profit all of this, but she is
(20:35):
sending people her artwork and it's on her website from before,
so if people wanted to go check that out. Jodyarius
dot com has our art.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Disgusting to doctor Bethany Marshall. Psycho Alan's joining me out
of la doctor Bethany behind bars. She's somewhat of a celebrity.
She gets hundreds of love letters, people put money in
her commissary account. She quote draws quote in other words,
traces other drawings and then sells them It's quite the life.
(21:08):
Quite the life. Doctor Bethany explained, how is she still
manipulating people from.
Speaker 12 (21:13):
She's highly manipulative.
Speaker 13 (21:15):
You know, I was thinking about borderline personality disorder as
you were talking to an Alexis. She definitely has borderline
personality disorder and I actually was looking it up in
the DSM five, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
of mental disorders, and one of the characteristics is intense,
unstable and conflicted close relationships marked by mistrust, neediness, and
(21:39):
anxious preoccupation with real or imagined abandonment. Close relationships often
viewed in extremes of idealization and devaluation, alternating between overinvolvement
and withdrawal. And I can see that in her relationship
with Travis Alexander, that it started with the idealization and
(22:00):
then it went through.
Speaker 12 (22:01):
To the devaluation.
Speaker 13 (22:03):
The idealization is when he was dating her, right when
they were together, when they were going out, and then
do you remember that she found out that he was planning.
Speaker 12 (22:12):
A vacation with another woman.
Speaker 13 (22:14):
Then it went from the idealization to the devaluation, and
that's when she started to plot her revenge.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Alexis Terrestchuck investigative reporter and journalist Alexis, You and I
covered the Areas murder trial together, as well as the
death penalty phase. For those who don't know about Jody
Arius and her murder conviction, please explain what happened to
Travis Alexander when.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
He tried to break up with her.
Speaker 11 (22:41):
She plotted his murder, lured him in, you know, went
down to his house in Arizona, but it took her
four days to get there. She stopped along the way
to buy a bunch of things that she was going
to use where she ended up slaughtering him. She attacked
him while he was in the.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Shit a minute though, Alexis, hold on, hold on, you're
skipping some good stuff. Because when she travels, you know,
I don't know how many hundreds of miles to go
murder him. She did not want to leave a trail
describe at Alexis.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
So she rented a car in northern California, about sixty
miles away from her house so nobody would recognize her.
She first, they gave her a red car. She said,
I don't want a red car. That's too noticeable. I
want something different because she didn't want the cops to
see her. She then hit out with a boyfriend in
another town. She dyed her hair back to its natural
(23:33):
brunette from the bleach blonde she's been sporting. She then
bought a gas can, had multiple gas cans in her car,
filled them up with gas, not using a credit card,
so that she couldn't be traced, and then trekked across
the desert, hiding when she was so she couldn't be
stopped anywhere and had no record of her being near Travis.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now, I don't recall that he knew she was coming.
Speaker 11 (23:57):
They'd had a couple of phone calls. She had called
him repeatedly, but once she entered the area near his house,
she turned off her phone and did not turn it
back on until hours after she murdered him, to hide
the fact that she was even at his house.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
She was very devious.
Speaker 11 (24:18):
She knew exactly what to do to try to cover
her trap.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
What do you think was the motive of Lexis and why.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Jody Arius was jealous that Travis Alexander had moved on.
He didn't want to date her anymore, He did not
want to be her boyfriend, and he was actually even
going on a trip down to Cancun with another girl,
and it was a company trip and she had worked
for this company, so she was humiliated. But she was
filled with rage because he wouldn't be her boyfriend and
he didn't love her, and he treated her like she
(24:45):
felt like trash. They had sex, he didn't care, he
lied about it because he was a Mormon, and he
moved on and she could never move on. And she thought,
if I can't have him, no one else will.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
She literally left Travis Alexander's home with blood on her hands, Okay,
blood on her hands, drives for hours to get to
her next boyfriend and literally hops on top of him
and straddles him. Wow, she didn't waste any time.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
She did not at all. Twenty seven hours in the
car whatever it was with her gun that she had
brought the police. Her parents, her grandparents who she lived with,
had had a break in, and surprisingly the only thing
stolen was the gun, which is the same caliber of
gun that was used to shoe.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Travis Alexis the fact that they were part of the
Mormon religion seemed to h It was like a curiosity
to so many people. Why is that?
Speaker 11 (25:40):
I think it's because the Mormon religion is not as
familiar to people across the country as other religions, the Christianity, and.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So people tend to have thought of it as a cult.
Speaker 11 (25:52):
And so they saw that there was this what many
people called, you know, ritualistic murder, which it wasn't. It
was just Jody going crazy and murdering somebody, and they
tied it into this church.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
But also because there were visual.
Speaker 12 (26:02):
Images of it.
Speaker 11 (26:04):
When Jody met Travis, he was a very well respected
member of the church, and he brought her into the
church and she was baptized and became a member of
the church. So there was a photograph of her baptism,
and so when people have visual images of things they
can see, it makes it so much more compelling. And
then she dragged in the fact that after she got baptized,
I think she said that she and Travis had sex.
(26:27):
And I'm not sure what kind of sex I'm allowed
to say on your show, So.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Let's just say not the regular sex, and in Sun
States are still considered sodomy.
Speaker 11 (26:34):
Go ahead, So so it just made it so much
more selectious. And Travis was such an upstanding member of
this church, and people loved him and he was such
a good person, and so she joined the church only
because of him, and in fact, after she was convicted,
church kicked her out.
Speaker 12 (26:51):
Excommunicated her and said they did not want her in.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Unle Sisterschuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline dot Com. I understand
that the murderer is mounting an appeal. What's that all about?
Speaker 4 (27:06):
So, yes, she has filed an appeal, She has her attorneys,
and she has a slew of complaints. She says she
blames her first attorney, Kirk Nurmi, for inappropriate actions with her,
saying that's the way that he spoke to the jury
about her, saying at the closing arguments nine out of
(27:28):
ten days, I hate Jodiris too, But just because you
hate her doesn't mean she's guilty. And she said that
the fact that he wrote a book compromised her legal advice,
and she wants the appeals court to overturn her conviction
because she has a bad lawyer. She had a bad lawyer.
She also says that the prosecutor acted inappropriately, which I
(27:49):
believe he's been investigated in no charges or actions have
been taken against him, and she just wants every season
of the books to get out of the fact that
she not only murdered her boyfriend but confessed to it
on the stand.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Take a listen to what the jury heard.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
And you're doing all of this too, And according to
your version of events, you're doing this that as individital
after you have already.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Shocking right, he is.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
Correct, I believe.
Speaker 13 (28:26):
No.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
Do you remember previously talking to us about how he
was coming at you and he was this horrible man
with his mean face. Do you remember telling me that, Yes,
I didn't say he was okay, thank you for correcting me.
But do you remember telling us that he was a
mean man?
Speaker 12 (28:45):
Not today, well, previously.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
Previously you did say that he was a meaning correct.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I think I did, yes, And on this.
Speaker 6 (28:53):
Particular occasion, you told us that he was cursing at you, right,
and that he threw you down right, Yes, that he
chased you down right. Yes, and this is the individual
that you shot.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
First, right. I had no if I shot him and
just feel off.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
The gun went off, right, you could at least sacknoledge that, yes,
that's something that you did.
Speaker 14 (29:23):
Hear.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Jody Arias will not go away no matter what she claims,
she has had her rights violated, and she has resorted
to a PCR post conviction relief petition. This although she
has already attempted to appeal her verdict, trying to get
her conviction reversed overturned. Are you the prosecutor had egregious
(30:03):
and self promoting misconduct that tanned the trial? Well, nobody
agreed with that. The appellate court there in Arizona, the
Arizona Court of Appeals cited quote overwhelming evidence of guilt.
Then the Arizona Supreme Court declined to review the Court
of Appeals decision. Now Arius is trying to hail Mary,
(30:28):
convicted of murdering her lover, stabbing him twenty six times,
leaving his dead body slumped over in the shower, shooting
him in the head. I remember the shocking scenario that
was proven by physical evidence unrefuted, that he was standing
(30:49):
at his bathroom mirror and blood was dripping down and
he saw himself dying. I remember it like it was
yesterday for me. It's a memory for his family, it's
never ending pain.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Today.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Our thoughts with the family of Travis Alexander and a
life cut short I think about them so often. How
are they doing now?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
They are doing well with their lives. They were devastated
when Travis was killed by Jody and even more crushed
by the antics that she pulled in the courtroom and
with all of her interviews and trying to say that
he was a child molester and really drag him through
the mud. But they celebrate his life. However, Jody needles
(31:39):
them relentlessly whenever she has to send them a check,
a restitution check, it just brings back the reminder of
how upset they were and how terrible she is. And
she has this miserable little job where she makes forty
cents an hour, and so she sends them a five
hundred dollars check here and there, and it just is
a reminder of how she is still alive and their
beloved Travis is not.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
The defense Kirk Nurmi who tried over and over and
over to get off this case. How is Kirk Nurmi
doing now.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Kirk had a tough time after the trial. He was
diagnosed with cancer and he has said repeatedly he told me,
I'm sure he told you that he believes working with
Jody arius exacerbated his cancer caused him to have cancer.
It was so stressful. He hated her. He felt like
she was the worst client he's ever had. He did
try to get off the case, repeatedly begged the judges
(32:26):
to let them let him go, and he wouldn't. But
he has said I gave her a great defense. She
admitted she killed her boyfriend, she murdered him, and I
protected her from the death penalty. So she should be
very thankful because she would have gotten the death penalty
if it wasn't for me.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I was thinking about all those phone sex tapes. Take
a listen to this.
Speaker 14 (32:47):
You are right.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
Oh, and we took a bath together. That was That
was surreal as honestly, and I think, I mean maybe
candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it.
But you are amazing. You made me, seriously, you made
me feel like a goddess.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Like I wasn't saying you were like.
Speaker 12 (33:12):
Worshiping me, but you were.
Speaker 7 (33:14):
You made me feel like.
Speaker 9 (33:15):
I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
Like I so felt like I was the goddess.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
And so aside from all.
Speaker 9 (33:27):
Those warmsuzzy feelings, but like it was, it was so
sexy and it was so hot and oh.
Speaker 14 (33:33):
Gosh, oh well that I wasn't hard to freaking maybe
you were hot? You you are serious because I don't
want right because I touched your stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah, I'm already.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
I just started.
Speaker 14 (33:59):
I'm gonna tell you to treat like I'm going to
tell you to a treating.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Oh my gosh, that is so debasing.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Joining me a very special guest, Kirk Nurmi, the Jody
Arias defense lawyer and author of a best seller, Trapped
with Miss Arias. You can find it on Amazon dot com.
You know, Kirk, a sign of a calculated attack on you,
after you and the rest of your team had sat
(34:37):
there and given your blood, sweat and tears during that trial,
just taking so much abuse, not even just Arius, but
really everyone, the whole public was against you, and to
this day you believe it contributed to you get in cancer.
You know, that's what malignant means, mal worry bad that
(34:58):
that's what malignant means. Do you really believe.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
That, Kirk?
Speaker 7 (35:03):
I do. I mean, obviously there's no way to prove
it scientifically, but in my heart, keep in mind, I
was assigned miss Arius's case in two thousand and nine.
Thus she was a part of my life against my
wishes from probably twenty ten to twenty fifteen, and everything
that went along with defending her, having her attack me
(35:26):
and interviews things of that nature caused great concern to
me about my safety and that of my wife. Yes,
I do. Over those years, I believe that it eventually
added up, and that's what turned my healthy blood cells
into cancer's tumors.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Her tryal turn into an international Barnum and Bailey circus
where Nurmi was, against his will, elected ringmaster. I want
to hear what it was like. See, I always saw
her at a distance, like looking at a terre angela
in a glass box. I was at a distance, of course,
except for the time she shot a bird at me
(36:04):
in court.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
But needless to.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Say, she wasn't the first and no doubt won't be
the last. But Kirk, what was it like being with her?
Why was there such a contentious relationship between you two?
Speaker 7 (36:18):
Well, obviously a lot of that is privileged, But you know,
my job, the way I look at it anyway, is
a detachment. I'm not there to support what she did.
I'm not there to I'm just there to help her
support her story. I'm not there to be her friend,
and you know that without saying too much, I think
(36:39):
that speaks volumes.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I'm trying to I'm trying to interpret that.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
In your book, Trapped with miss Arius, you touch on
so many different topics. What do you think was the
biggest bombshell in your book?
Speaker 7 (36:54):
I think some of the probably the biggest bombshell was
talking about that attachment she had in this kind of
correlates to what I said earlier about her kind of
at some point in time viewing me as her boyfriend.
I was the most significant man in her life, and
I was there to do a job. I was not
there to be her friend or support in any way
(37:16):
other than to advocate her case in the courtroom.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Alex this, what's your take on Jodi Arius?
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Judy Arias is a psychopath? She you know, because she
spoke about you all the time. I think she even
one time dragged her finger across her throat like she
wanted to cut your throat. She has called me personally
crazy after I wrote stories, literally facts from the prison
about her, called me obsessed with her. I am not
(37:43):
obsessed with her. You are not obsessed with her. We
are obsessed with getting the truth and justice for people
that were involved in this case, meaning Travis Alexander. She
has a huge ego. Even locked up behind bars, the
world revolves only around Jody Arias. She was a liar,
the proven liar. She was very sneaking, and she very
methodically planned Travis Alexander's murder.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Alexis, do you remember the day she shot a bird
at me in the courtroom. That's just something I will
never forget.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
I do remember that she turned around and pull her
middle finger up on her chin. Everybody was done, the
whole country was done. It was amazing. She has no
sense of what is right or wrong, and she just
thought she was wrongly accused of killing her boyfriend. Even
though she admitted I'll.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Always have our time in court together when she shot
a bird at me, We'll always have Arizona, my happy
memories of Jody Arius. But you know what, I have
to say that I've met an American Idol, because Jodi
Arias did win American idol behind bars. Take a listen,
Oh Holy night, the stars a Bradley shine.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
It is a lie mar Dearie.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Fancy Grace, Jody Arius Mary a last ditch attempt at freedom,
claiming her constitutional rights have been violated. My rights were
violated when I read this headline that Arius is back
trying to get out. She is challenging her conviction, and
(39:18):
she's got plenty of time to study the law. She
is now a jailhouse, a librarian's aid who spends all
of her time plotting and scheming ways to get out
of jail. We wait as justice unfolds. Good, my friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Why won't she go away? I'm talking about convicted killer
Jody Arius Oh, convicted in the brutal stab and death
of her lover Travis Alexander, stabbing him twenty nine to
thirty one times. There's an argument over that because there
were so many stab wounds they began to overlap each other,
(00:29):
and it's like stabbing Jillo. You can't really tell how
many times somebody's been stabbed when they've been stabbed that
many times, and then kept it off by shooting him
in the head, leaving her lover to decompose in his
own shower. Why even after the two had broken up,
she travels across many states in secret to have a
(00:53):
marathon sex session with him to convince him not to
take the new woman he's dating on a trip to Cankun. Well,
the sex marathon didn't work and he didn't cancel the
date to can Kun. So what's the girl to do?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Kill him as she did?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us. He has Jody Arius
will not go away, and now she's set to launch,
a of course, dramatic bid to be freed from prison
after lover Travis. Alexander's brutal slang arias behind bars is
(01:34):
hinted at a dramatic new legal strategy hoping to get
her toe in the door to freedom after she was
sentenced to life behind bars in a gruesome murder. Of course,
she has her own substack, oh her and top mom.
In a disturbing new post on the substack, she writes,
(01:56):
one of her top priorities is pursuing r post conviction relief.
It's a legal maneuver that allows inmates to challenge their
convictions or sentences based on new evidence or constitutional violations. Okay, lady,
(02:17):
bring it on, because we have got an avalanche of
evidence that you murdered Travis. Joining me right now along
with Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, lawyer, founder child Crimewatch dot com,
doctor Brian Russell, host of investigation discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows,
(02:39):
renowned New York psychologist Karen Stark. Alexis Terreschuk joining me
from RadarOnline dot com. Alexis why won't she go away?
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Because she can't. She craves the attention of everybody. She
says that she wants to just do good behind bars.
But she doesn't. She still runs a Twitter account. She
still writes to her fans she cannot live outside of
the spotlight.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Let's go back in the courtroom. What happened to Alexis?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Jody Arius created a circus in the courtroom when she
took the stand. Everybody was stunned. I was, I know
you were. And she was on there for days spinning
her lies about Travis Alexander.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Alexis, what can you tell me about Travis Alexander in life?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
What was he like?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Travis was the nicest guy. He was a Mormon, the
religion that he had committed himself to as he was older,
and he was full of life. He had so many friends.
He was a respected business guy. He was the one
who had the whole house and had all the roommates.
So everybody depended on Travis take care of them, and
(03:45):
that's what he did. He took care of everybody. He
was funny, he was adventurous. He was always going on
trips and in fact, when he and Jody started dating,
they went on a live of trips together, fun trips
to waterfalls and to San Diego, lots of places. He
was an up and coming entrepreneur. He had his own
he was running his own business through the organization, and
(04:05):
he was really climbing up in the company because people
loved him. He had a quick smile. His sister just
said he was the nicest guy you would ever meet.
Everybody that met him said he was so nice. And
he was also struggling with his religion. He wanted to
follow Lieutenant s sterctly, but he also, like any other
young person in their late twenties early thirties, you know,
(04:25):
he wanted to have sex with his girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
It's interesting and I'm going to go to Kieran Stark
on this in a moment. But all of his friends
and family that knew her did not want him to
be with her. And I've questioned them about that repeatedly,
saying what was it about her? And they all said,
I don't know. It was just a freaky, hinky feeling.
She was just we just thought she was weird and crazy.
(04:50):
There was just something about her. Doctor Brian Russell, She's
many people believe beautiful. She got a beautiful face. Many
people think she's got a beautiful body. I don't find
her beautiful, but many people do. She's got tons of
people writing her and sending her money behind bars. The
thing is when Travis Alexander, who I understand at the
time was a devout Mormon, got tangled up with Jody Arius.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
At some point he wanted to break it off.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
He said things like he did not think they would
ever get married, he wanted to start dating other people.
She would have none of it. So she finds out
he's going on a trip to Cozaml with another woman,
and that just throws her into a fit. Drives literally
across the desert. She's moved away with all the gas
(05:39):
cans in her trunk so she doesn't have to stop
to use her credit card or be on a surveillance
video at a seven to eleven, gets to his home.
They have crazy fetish sex all day, complete with photos which.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Were played over and over and over at trial.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And then he still refuses to cancel the Cosaml date,
and when that happens, she stabs him twenty nine times
and shoots him in the head, leaving his body to
decompose in the shower. Help me out, Dr Brian Russell.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
I'm glad you just gave that rundown, Nancy, because you know,
if she said she'd killed him while he was beating her,
there'd be a self defense argument, but physical evidence from
the scene clearly suggested that didn't happen that way. I
never saw solid evidence that he'd ever beaten her.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Let's just look at the facts.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
As you accurately point out Dr Brian Russell, there were
many ways if it were indeed true, which no one
but Arias says.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
It's true. They were broken up.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
She had moved away, hours away.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
They were not living together. They were never married, they never.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Had children, nothing. They had a fling. He broke up,
she moved away, scorned, she left. She was living somewhere else,
had a brandy place to live, had a car, a job,
the works, and they'd been apart for a while. As
a matter of fact, I'm reading directly from the Aufe
Topsy report. Travis Alexander's jugular vein his throat was slit,
(07:06):
the common carotid artery, the trachea had been slashed. He
had defensive wounds on his hand. He may have even
been dead at the time she shot him in the head. Also,
the crime scene revealed that when he first was stabbed,
he realized he was dying. He stumbled to the bathroom
(07:27):
mirror and actually looked in the mirror as he was dying.
And we know this because of the blood evidence. There
were drops, not spatter, not throwback, not transfer, drops of
blood that dropped down from his neck and his nose
(07:48):
and his face onto the sink as he looked into
the mirror as he died, and he was left naked
and bloody, bleeding out in the shower. As a matter
of fact, it's really not even contested how he died.
Listened to Jody Arius at trial admitting she slit his throat.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
Would you agree that you're the person who actually slid
mister Alexander's throat from ear to ear?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yes, to Ashley Wilcott, veteran trial lawyer and judge, it
gives me no pleasure to replay the rendition of how
Chavick Alexander was murdered. He didn't see it coming, He
had no idea what was about to happen. But we
(08:45):
also know Ashley that at the beginning she claimed that
she wasn't there, she had nothing to do with it
at all. Then when evidence turned up that she had
been there, she actually claimed that Ninja's showed up all
dressed in black and for no reason burst into the home,
(09:05):
stole nothing. She ran and saved her own life, but
they killed Travis and left like shadows in the night.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I mean, Ashley, really right?
Speaker 7 (09:15):
Really?
Speaker 8 (09:15):
So she was lying from the gig go obviously with
the story that she initially told with the ninjas. But
here's what I love about our justice system. During this trial,
it went from story to story to story to story.
But as you just played, finally on the stand under oath,
she admits she slit his throat period.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, and just like this and just like that, and
then shot him. Cleaned up the scene as best she could,
put a lot of clothes in the washer, including her
digital camera. Hello, and on the camera to Karen Stark
were actual photos. She had been taking sex photos the
(09:58):
whole day. But forget about that. On the digital camera
that she left in the washing machine, our photos exit
we think accidentally taken during Travis's murder. Karen Starr, New
York psychologist, what about that This is.
Speaker 9 (10:17):
A person who really is not only a pathological liar,
but has absolutely no guilt about anything that happened and
documented it as.
Speaker 10 (10:29):
It was happening. Now, even if it was accidental somehow
she knew that she should wash things up, clean them up,
despite the ninjas or whatever she was saying, And she
very clearly is a psychopath who committed this murder. There
is no doubt in my mind that she knew exactly
what she was doing, and that it had to do
with rage and jealousy and her inability to let go.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Of this man. Alexistereschuk, writeronline dot com. You also covered
the case every single day. I was in the courtroom
almost every day and was broadcasting from a couple of
blocks away from the courthouse. The digital camera evidence, to me,
is overwhelming. It places her there at the time of
the murder, in the room with Travis.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
It does it's.
Speaker 11 (11:15):
Right up to and after she murders him. There are
pictures of him naked in the shower and got the
water running over him. He's looking directly at the camera.
These were not secret photos that he didn't know are
being taken. Then there's the picture of his foot in
the shower, and there's another picture of the blood on
the floor, and they're taking there's a timestamp, so you
can tell that they were taken just moments, literally less
(11:39):
than two minutes after he was alive in the shower,
she's taking pictures, and then he's dead when she went
into her frenzy, her spree killing spree, and stabbed him repeatedly.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And the thing was, she.
Speaker 11 (11:51):
Also shot him, but the bullet casing was found on
top of the blood. So what the evidence was presented
in court is that there's no way she should him first,
otherwise that would be on the bottom and be covered
with blood. It happened afterwards, and it wasn't disturbed, And
this is everything that was shown on her camera. She
didn't even take the camera with her. She's stuck it
in the washing machine.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
She left it there. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
In the last Days, we learned convict the Killer Jody
Arius is set to launch a dramatic bid to be
freed after being convicted and her lover Travis Alexander's horrible,
horrible murder. It's called a PCR Post Conviction Relief petition,
(12:45):
possibly her most serious legal action since the end of
her trial and definitely a Hail Mary, a last ditch
try to overturn her conviction. Did I leave out the
part that his throat was cut so deeply the life
almost reached his spinal cord, much like Nicole Brown's areas
(13:07):
changed her story so many times. She ultimately went with
self defense after claiming she wasn't there, then claiming that
she was there and Ninja's broke in and murder Travis
and she miraculously got away to she did it, but
it was in self defense. Okay. She was sentenced to
(13:27):
life behind bars without the possibility of parole, and now
this in her substact post, Arias claims she's been quote
misunderstood and over sexualized since her trial. Wow, I wonder
whose fault that was. What do we know about Jody
(13:49):
Arias to Alexis Treschuk, Alexis, exactly where is Jody Arias housed?
Has she been moved? What's the name for her correctional facility?
And what do we know specifically about security there? Is
it a pod? Does she have a roommate cad? She
decorate her cell like a dorm room.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
So she is in the Perryville Prison. She has not
been moved. She entered there in twenty fifteen April thirteenth,
twenty fifteen, so she has been there just over four years.
It is a very standard twelve nine seven cell I
believe with a bed and a sink. She does not
have a roommate because it is a maximum security she
(14:32):
was convicted of murder in the first degree. She is classified.
She cannot have any movement, and she's had a review
every year since she's been there to maybe lower down
the classification level of her risk assessment. Never been lowered.
It's gone from a five to a four, which is
nothing at all. She's still in a maximum security prison.
(14:53):
She does not have a lot of freedom or free
free will to walk around to see other people. She
did a lot of herself, but she's can decorate her
cell and she also has a television and she is
able to watch TV and she watches it NonStop. And
she spends most of her time in solitary confinement. That's
the way this prison is designed in Arizona. It's a
pretty harsh prison for the worst of the killers in
(15:14):
the state. But she also has a job behind bars.
She has been working in the library, who works over
forty hours a week, but she makes a whopping forty
cents an hour.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Alex says, what can you tell me about Jody Arius's
life behind bars?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Is it true?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
She has dozens of love letters a day. Did nobody
see Travis Alexander's decomposing body in the shower? No matter
how many times I played it on HLN?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
What men is right mind.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Would seek out Jody Arius? What do they want to
be with a killer? Or do they think she's innocent?
Speaker 4 (15:51):
These people out there, these men are just bamboozled by
her hair. Used to be she used to be this
bleached blond, really bucksome girl. Now time bars she has
her natural brown hair, it's probably gray at this point,
and they write her obsessively. She even has said, I
cannot even respond to everybody who writes to me because
I got so many fan letters a day, dozens of them.
(16:13):
She has all the things that she buys from the
commentsary in there, so she buys tons and tons of
paper and envelopes so she can write to all of
her fans. And that people tell her they love her,
and they believe that she's innocent and that she's going
to get out, and then when she gets out that
they're going to maybe even get together with her. They
are just fans, Alexis.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
How do you know she's getting all these love letters?
Speaker 4 (16:33):
The prison has confirmed to us that she receives multiple letters,
and then she runs a Twitter account through a friend,
and that friend posts that people write to her all
the time.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Are these men sending her money? Are they insane?
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Yes, people send her so much money they send her
They have to send it through the prison system, but
they have it because she has a huge fat account
in the jail commissary.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, So if they're sending her money, alexis Teresha, what
is she doing with it?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I mean, what's there to spend it on? Behind bars?
Speaker 4 (17:06):
She is spending all of her money at the commissary
on a variety of things. But the thing that struck
me the most is that she's buying toothbrushes, which Teresa
Judais told us that she learned when she was in
prison that that can be used as a sex toy.
Behind bars, she shops relentlessly at the canteen. She buys
(17:27):
him sardines, she buys Dorito's, she buys pudding, she buys desserts,
she buys cookies, shelfif buys Emo, which you know, can
treat her stomach problems. She buys pretzels, cookies, crackers, any
sort of junk food that is on there.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Jody is buying it Alexis I understand that she's treated
like a celebrity behind bars. What does that entail?
Speaker 4 (17:52):
She is quite popular behind bars. She is the one
that everybody goes to. She well. She claims that she
gives people. She buys things from the commentsary to give
to other people. The people behind bars are not as
lucky as she is. But there has been other inmates
who are also lost up the same prison. Who ever
reveals that people get invites with Jody and that she's
(18:13):
often mouthing off in the shared courtyard.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Is it true that she has privileges to get on
the internet, and if so, write the lovelorn men that
are contacting her.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
She does go the library. She actually works in the library.
She is a library aid and she has said that
the library books in this prison are just terrible. So
she's asked people. She started book drives behind bars to
ask people to send things that people would want to read.
But the prison is very strict about what you can get,
and so there are many mostly religious books and probably
(18:47):
what you would call smut books, you know, romance books.
She does not have access to the internet, but she
speaks with folks on the outside that do have access
to the Internet, so that's how she keeps in touch
with everybody through her Twitter account and the love letter.
She could write as many as she wants, and she
just has to buy stamps. But she has basically unlimited
(19:08):
funds in her account, so she is able to buy
the stamps to send letters back to everybody that writes
to her. But she has often said I can't write
to everybody, as if she has anything else to do.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Unless Terreschuk, what can you tell me about claims that
she gets privileges behind bars.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Jody Arius does not get any special privileges behind bars,
but because she cannot behave. In fact, she was disciplined
within her first couple of months of being there. She
yelled at a guard and called the guard a cup
blocker because he wouldn't let her get a haircut that
she wanted, even though she had no privileges to get
a haircut. And then when she was disciplined, she said, oh,
I didn't know that that word was a bad word.
(19:46):
I just looked it up in the airban dictionary. So
she was just fun for months on end. She lost
her visitation privileges.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I understand that Jodie Arius perceives herself to be quite
the artiste, okay, and she could be selling her art online.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Let me say, is that still true? Because I've seen
some of it. To me, it looks like she's just
tracing pictures out of magazines, but that I'm no art critic, Alexis.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
You tell me.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Jody Arius was drawing so many pieces of art, and
you are right, they did look like she traced things
because it was such an exact copy of things for magazines, ads,
and even in one picture everybody thought it was just
like Travis Alexander's sister, which was so disrespectful. But since
she has been in this prison, she's not allowed to
sell it or profit all of this, but she is
(20:35):
sending people her artwork and it's on her website from before,
so if people wanted to go check that out. Jodyarius
dot com has our art.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Disgusting to doctor Bethany Marshall. Psycho Alan's joining me out
of la doctor Bethany behind bars. She's somewhat of a celebrity.
She gets hundreds of love letters, people put money in
her commissary account. She quote draws quote in other words,
traces other drawings and then sells them It's quite the life.
(21:08):
Quite the life. Doctor Bethany explained, how is she still
manipulating people from.
Speaker 12 (21:13):
She's highly manipulative.
Speaker 13 (21:15):
You know, I was thinking about borderline personality disorder as
you were talking to an Alexis. She definitely has borderline
personality disorder and I actually was looking it up in
the DSM five, which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
of mental disorders, and one of the characteristics is intense,
unstable and conflicted close relationships marked by mistrust, neediness, and
(21:39):
anxious preoccupation with real or imagined abandonment. Close relationships often
viewed in extremes of idealization and devaluation, alternating between overinvolvement
and withdrawal. And I can see that in her relationship
with Travis Alexander, that it started with the idealization and
(22:00):
then it went through.
Speaker 12 (22:01):
To the devaluation.
Speaker 13 (22:03):
The idealization is when he was dating her, right when
they were together, when they were going out, and then
do you remember that she found out that he was planning.
Speaker 12 (22:12):
A vacation with another woman.
Speaker 13 (22:14):
Then it went from the idealization to the devaluation, and
that's when she started to plot her revenge.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Alexis Terrestchuck investigative reporter and journalist Alexis, You and I
covered the Areas murder trial together, as well as the
death penalty phase. For those who don't know about Jody
Arius and her murder conviction, please explain what happened to
Travis Alexander when.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
He tried to break up with her.
Speaker 11 (22:41):
She plotted his murder, lured him in, you know, went
down to his house in Arizona, but it took her
four days to get there. She stopped along the way
to buy a bunch of things that she was going
to use where she ended up slaughtering him. She attacked
him while he was in the.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Shit a minute though, Alexis, hold on, hold on, you're
skipping some good stuff. Because when she travels, you know,
I don't know how many hundreds of miles to go
murder him. She did not want to leave a trail
describe at Alexis.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
So she rented a car in northern California, about sixty
miles away from her house so nobody would recognize her.
She first, they gave her a red car. She said,
I don't want a red car. That's too noticeable. I
want something different because she didn't want the cops to
see her. She then hit out with a boyfriend in
another town. She dyed her hair back to its natural
(23:33):
brunette from the bleach blonde she's been sporting. She then
bought a gas can, had multiple gas cans in her car,
filled them up with gas, not using a credit card,
so that she couldn't be traced, and then trekked across
the desert, hiding when she was so she couldn't be
stopped anywhere and had no record of her being near Travis.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Now, I don't recall that he knew she was coming.
Speaker 11 (23:57):
They'd had a couple of phone calls. She had called
him repeatedly, but once she entered the area near his house,
she turned off her phone and did not turn it
back on until hours after she murdered him, to hide
the fact that she was even at his house.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
She was very devious.
Speaker 11 (24:18):
She knew exactly what to do to try to cover
her trap.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
What do you think was the motive of Lexis and why.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Jody Arius was jealous that Travis Alexander had moved on.
He didn't want to date her anymore, He did not
want to be her boyfriend, and he was actually even
going on a trip down to Cancun with another girl,
and it was a company trip and she had worked
for this company, so she was humiliated. But she was
filled with rage because he wouldn't be her boyfriend and
he didn't love her, and he treated her like she
(24:45):
felt like trash. They had sex, he didn't care, he
lied about it because he was a Mormon, and he
moved on and she could never move on. And she thought,
if I can't have him, no one else will.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
She literally left Travis Alexander's home with blood on her hands, Okay,
blood on her hands, drives for hours to get to
her next boyfriend and literally hops on top of him
and straddles him. Wow, she didn't waste any time.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
She did not at all. Twenty seven hours in the
car whatever it was with her gun that she had
brought the police. Her parents, her grandparents who she lived with,
had had a break in, and surprisingly the only thing
stolen was the gun, which is the same caliber of
gun that was used to shoe.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Travis Alexis the fact that they were part of the
Mormon religion seemed to h It was like a curiosity
to so many people. Why is that?
Speaker 11 (25:40):
I think it's because the Mormon religion is not as
familiar to people across the country as other religions, the Christianity, and.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
So people tend to have thought of it as a cult.
Speaker 11 (25:52):
And so they saw that there was this what many
people called, you know, ritualistic murder, which it wasn't. It
was just Jody going crazy and murdering somebody, and they
tied it into this church.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
But also because there were visual.
Speaker 12 (26:02):
Images of it.
Speaker 11 (26:04):
When Jody met Travis, he was a very well respected
member of the church, and he brought her into the
church and she was baptized and became a member of
the church. So there was a photograph of her baptism,
and so when people have visual images of things they
can see, it makes it so much more compelling. And
then she dragged in the fact that after she got baptized,
I think she said that she and Travis had sex.
(26:27):
And I'm not sure what kind of sex I'm allowed
to say on your show, So.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Let's just say not the regular sex, and in Sun
States are still considered sodomy.
Speaker 11 (26:34):
Go ahead, So so it just made it so much
more selectious. And Travis was such an upstanding member of
this church, and people loved him and he was such
a good person, and so she joined the church only
because of him, and in fact, after she was convicted,
church kicked her out.
Speaker 12 (26:51):
Excommunicated her and said they did not want her in.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Unle Sisterschuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline dot Com. I understand
that the murderer is mounting an appeal. What's that all about?
Speaker 4 (27:06):
So, yes, she has filed an appeal, She has her attorneys,
and she has a slew of complaints. She says she
blames her first attorney, Kirk Nurmi, for inappropriate actions with her,
saying that's the way that he spoke to the jury
about her, saying at the closing arguments nine out of
(27:28):
ten days, I hate Jodiris too, But just because you
hate her doesn't mean she's guilty. And she said that
the fact that he wrote a book compromised her legal advice,
and she wants the appeals court to overturn her conviction
because she has a bad lawyer. She had a bad lawyer.
She also says that the prosecutor acted inappropriately, which I
(27:49):
believe he's been investigated in no charges or actions have
been taken against him, and she just wants every season
of the books to get out of the fact that
she not only murdered her boyfriend but confessed to it
on the stand.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Take a listen to what the jury heard.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
And you're doing all of this too, And according to
your version of events, you're doing this that as individital
after you have already.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Shocking right, he is.
Speaker 12 (28:23):
Correct, I believe.
Speaker 13 (28:26):
No.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
Do you remember previously talking to us about how he
was coming at you and he was this horrible man
with his mean face. Do you remember telling me that, Yes,
I didn't say he was okay, thank you for correcting me.
But do you remember telling us that he was a
mean man?
Speaker 12 (28:45):
Not today, well, previously.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
Previously you did say that he was a meaning correct.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I think I did, yes, And on this.
Speaker 6 (28:53):
Particular occasion, you told us that he was cursing at you, right,
and that he threw you down right, Yes, that he
chased you down right. Yes, and this is the individual
that you shot.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
First, right. I had no if I shot him and
just feel off.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
The gun went off, right, you could at least sacknoledge that, yes,
that's something that you did.
Speaker 14 (29:23):
Hear.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Jody Arias will not go away no matter what she claims,
she has had her rights violated, and she has resorted
to a PCR post conviction relief petition. This although she
has already attempted to appeal her verdict, trying to get
her conviction reversed overturned. Are you the prosecutor had egregious
(30:03):
and self promoting misconduct that tanned the trial? Well, nobody
agreed with that. The appellate court there in Arizona, the
Arizona Court of Appeals cited quote overwhelming evidence of guilt.
Then the Arizona Supreme Court declined to review the Court
of Appeals decision. Now Arius is trying to hail Mary,
(30:28):
convicted of murdering her lover, stabbing him twenty six times,
leaving his dead body slumped over in the shower, shooting
him in the head. I remember the shocking scenario that
was proven by physical evidence unrefuted, that he was standing
(30:49):
at his bathroom mirror and blood was dripping down and
he saw himself dying. I remember it like it was
yesterday for me. It's a memory for his family, it's
never ending pain.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Today.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Our thoughts with the family of Travis Alexander and a
life cut short I think about them so often. How
are they doing now?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
They are doing well with their lives. They were devastated
when Travis was killed by Jody and even more crushed
by the antics that she pulled in the courtroom and
with all of her interviews and trying to say that
he was a child molester and really drag him through
the mud. But they celebrate his life. However, Jody needles
(31:39):
them relentlessly whenever she has to send them a check,
a restitution check, it just brings back the reminder of
how upset they were and how terrible she is. And
she has this miserable little job where she makes forty
cents an hour, and so she sends them a five
hundred dollars check here and there, and it just is
a reminder of how she is still alive and their
beloved Travis is not.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
The defense Kirk Nurmi who tried over and over and
over to get off this case. How is Kirk Nurmi
doing now.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Kirk had a tough time after the trial. He was
diagnosed with cancer and he has said repeatedly he told me,
I'm sure he told you that he believes working with
Jody arius exacerbated his cancer caused him to have cancer.
It was so stressful. He hated her. He felt like
she was the worst client he's ever had. He did
try to get off the case, repeatedly begged the judges
(32:26):
to let them let him go, and he wouldn't. But
he has said I gave her a great defense. She
admitted she killed her boyfriend, she murdered him, and I
protected her from the death penalty. So she should be
very thankful because she would have gotten the death penalty
if it wasn't for me.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I was thinking about all those phone sex tapes. Take
a listen to this.
Speaker 14 (32:47):
You are right.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
Oh, and we took a bath together. That was That
was surreal as honestly, and I think, I mean maybe
candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it.
But you are amazing. You made me, seriously, you made
me feel like a goddess.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Like I wasn't saying you were like.
Speaker 12 (33:12):
Worshiping me, but you were.
Speaker 7 (33:14):
You made me feel like.
Speaker 9 (33:15):
I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
Like I so felt like I was the goddess.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
And so aside from all.
Speaker 9 (33:27):
Those warmsuzzy feelings, but like it was, it was so
sexy and it was so hot and oh.
Speaker 14 (33:33):
Gosh, oh well that I wasn't hard to freaking maybe
you were hot? You you are serious because I don't
want right because I touched your stuff.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Yeah, I'm already.
Speaker 6 (33:55):
I just started.
Speaker 14 (33:59):
I'm gonna tell you to treat like I'm going to
tell you to a treating.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Oh my gosh, that is so debasing.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Joining me a very special guest, Kirk Nurmi, the Jody
Arias defense lawyer and author of a best seller, Trapped
with Miss Arias. You can find it on Amazon dot com.
You know, Kirk, a sign of a calculated attack on you,
after you and the rest of your team had sat
(34:37):
there and given your blood, sweat and tears during that trial,
just taking so much abuse, not even just Arius, but
really everyone, the whole public was against you, and to
this day you believe it contributed to you get in cancer.
You know, that's what malignant means, mal worry bad that
(34:58):
that's what malignant means. Do you really believe.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
That, Kirk?
Speaker 7 (35:03):
I do. I mean, obviously there's no way to prove
it scientifically, but in my heart, keep in mind, I
was assigned miss Arius's case in two thousand and nine.
Thus she was a part of my life against my
wishes from probably twenty ten to twenty fifteen, and everything
that went along with defending her, having her attack me
(35:26):
and interviews things of that nature caused great concern to
me about my safety and that of my wife. Yes,
I do. Over those years, I believe that it eventually
added up, and that's what turned my healthy blood cells
into cancer's tumors.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Her tryal turn into an international Barnum and Bailey circus
where Nurmi was, against his will, elected ringmaster. I want
to hear what it was like. See, I always saw
her at a distance, like looking at a terre angela
in a glass box. I was at a distance, of course,
except for the time she shot a bird at me
(36:04):
in court.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
But needless to.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Say, she wasn't the first and no doubt won't be
the last. But Kirk, what was it like being with her?
Why was there such a contentious relationship between you two?
Speaker 7 (36:18):
Well, obviously a lot of that is privileged, But you know,
my job, the way I look at it anyway, is
a detachment. I'm not there to support what she did.
I'm not there to I'm just there to help her
support her story. I'm not there to be her friend,
and you know that without saying too much, I think
(36:39):
that speaks volumes.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
I'm trying to I'm trying to interpret that.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
In your book, Trapped with miss Arius, you touch on
so many different topics. What do you think was the
biggest bombshell in your book?
Speaker 7 (36:54):
I think some of the probably the biggest bombshell was
talking about that attachment she had in this kind of
correlates to what I said earlier about her kind of
at some point in time viewing me as her boyfriend.
I was the most significant man in her life, and
I was there to do a job. I was not
there to be her friend or support in any way
(37:16):
other than to advocate her case in the courtroom.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Alex this, what's your take on Jodi Arius?
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Judy Arias is a psychopath? She you know, because she
spoke about you all the time. I think she even
one time dragged her finger across her throat like she
wanted to cut your throat. She has called me personally
crazy after I wrote stories, literally facts from the prison
about her, called me obsessed with her. I am not
(37:43):
obsessed with her. You are not obsessed with her. We
are obsessed with getting the truth and justice for people
that were involved in this case, meaning Travis Alexander. She
has a huge ego. Even locked up behind bars, the
world revolves only around Jody Arias. She was a liar,
the proven liar. She was very sneaking, and she very
methodically planned Travis Alexander's murder.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Alexis, do you remember the day she shot a bird
at me in the courtroom. That's just something I will
never forget.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
I do remember that she turned around and pull her
middle finger up on her chin. Everybody was done, the
whole country was done. It was amazing. She has no
sense of what is right or wrong, and she just
thought she was wrongly accused of killing her boyfriend. Even
though she admitted I'll.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Always have our time in court together when she shot
a bird at me, We'll always have Arizona, my happy
memories of Jody Arius. But you know what, I have
to say that I've met an American Idol, because Jodi
Arias did win American idol behind bars. Take a listen,
Oh Holy night, the stars a Bradley shine.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
It is a lie mar Dearie.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Fancy Grace, Jody Arius Mary a last ditch attempt at freedom,
claiming her constitutional rights have been violated. My rights were
violated when I read this headline that Arius is back
trying to get out. She is challenging her conviction, and
(39:18):
she's got plenty of time to study the law. She
is now a jailhouse, a librarian's aid who spends all
of her time plotting and scheming ways to get out
of jail. We wait as justice unfolds. Good, my friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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