September 13, 2025 • 42 mins
Jussie Smollett, hate crime hoaxer, is participating in Special Forces: World's Toughest Test Season 4. It's a reality competition show on Fox where stars undergo military-style training and extreme challenges. This appearance marks Smollett's return to the network and public life following the fallout from his 2019 hate crime allegations. The new season premieres September 25 and is set in Morocco.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh My Stars, does it
never end with this poser? This felon? Oh My Stars.
Jesse Smollett, remember him, the race hoaxer who claimed he
(00:27):
was attacked because he is black and gay and when
police arrived at his luxury apartment, he still had a
rope around his neck. It was all a lie. Oh
My Stars. He's getting rewarded. Special Forces, the World's Toughest
Test unveils its celebrity contestants competing in the fourth season
(00:53):
of the Quasi military training reality show. It's premiering on
Fox and Hulu, and fans are sick at the inclusion
of the hate crime hoaxer Jesse Smollette. Oh My Stars,
with Smollette wise cracking on Instagram. It was at this
(01:17):
moment I said I should have just done the masked singer. Well, okay,
Ike say quite often, I've seen it all, but now
I really have seen it all. I mean to see, Grace,
this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us. The disgraced race hoaxer swore he was
(01:40):
attacked by two MAGA supporters who actually turned out to
be his personal trainers. The Osendario brothers, they swear under oath.
He hired them to pour bleach on him and put
a noose around his neck to both for his celebrity
(02:01):
profile and get a raise. Remember, he was a star
of the hit series Empire that came crashing down after
he pulled off this stunt. Let me jog your recollection.
Listen to this.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know it's two o'clock in the morning. You're going
to subway. Suberia is open twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Like people kill me when they say things like that,
because it's like, the subway is open twenty four hours
for a reason, so that when you're hungry at night
and you ain't got no food, you go to subway
the camera and facing north.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
How is that my issue? It feels like.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
If I had said it was a Muslim or a
Mexican or someone black, I feel like the doubters would
have supported.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Me a lot much more, a lot more.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And that says a lot about the place that we
are in our country right now, the.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
That are trying to separate us, and it's just not okay.
It's just not okay. And for all of the people.
The next time that you see someone report something, maybe
well after the fact that it happened, and you say
(03:18):
to them, well, why are you waiting until now? Just
remember that mine was reported right away and look what
has happened.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males. It changed at
some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
(03:50):
the story started. That also has changed to am in
the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop. According
to Jesse Smolette, every one knows him, big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(04:11):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,
they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(04:33):
the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people. And again, this
is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
(04:55):
on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
her now. Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta, Joiny,
joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and joining
(05:18):
me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.
Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm
hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the
wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go
back to sleep. All right, Usually I don't feel like
getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.
(05:40):
But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Go.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Well, it does appear that Jossi Smalltt had arrived to
the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
was a matter of him waking up in the middle
of that and going out to the freezing cold in
the subway. It was a very cold day though, and
he's he tells Polief that he's on his way home
with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is
in Chicago, correct, that's right?
Speaker 6 (06:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So how cold is it it?
Speaker 6 (06:12):
We were pretty sure it was below free temperatures. This
This was during a very very very.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Cold spell in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
I don't know the exact.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Doctor, Bethnet. He must have been very hungry, very hungry.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
starts blowing.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Forty to fifty degree below wind chill. I did my
undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at two.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but beginning. The beginning is he
wakes up, according to his story, at two am, and
(07:06):
instead of getting leftover, Pietz out of the fridge or
a whole chocolate cake, or whatever the matter may be.
He goes out in forty below to get a Subway sandwich.
See I start right there, That's where I start the story,
and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
I just think that's Craig cray.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
Well. I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was, you know, busted on child porn. I guess
it was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen,
I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Speaker 8 (07:51):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see from all of the evidence that's been
presented to me, this guy is looking for a more
publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to
get it.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true because the
official the official statement from Chicago PD is he is
being treated as a victim because he is a victim
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we
(08:34):
learn that Netflix is at it again, sturing their witches
cauldron with quote new evidence that the hate crime against
Jesse Smilett and his story quote might just be a
true story. As you will recall, soon after Smollette takes
(08:58):
to the airwaves describing how he was the victim of
a hate crime, Chicago PD released surveillance images of the
perpetrators and identify the two as also being black. They
are Nigerian American brothers. So we see the attackers performing
(09:20):
a quote hate crime on Smolette, who is black and
the purpose are black. Okay, just let that soak in
for a moment. To claim a hate crime and wrap
a rope around your neck as if you were threatened
with lynching. Nothing could be more incendiary in our American consciousness.
(09:48):
A horrible, horrible era that our country endured, all brought
to the forefront by Smolettes hoax. Then evidence came out
Smollet orchestrated his own attack and paid the brothers nearly
(10:09):
four thousand dollars. Idiot wrote a check. Yeah, idiot, wrote
a check for his hate crime attack. What more do
we know?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
When did you because as you said, it was an
acrid account of the timeline valuable information, When did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked
for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone
to the tech for three to four hours.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Why Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
my partner's number, family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers,
my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I don't know what that's going to be to hand
over my phone for.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And honestly, by then, inaccurate, false statements had already been
put out there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to Subway sandwich, gets
(11:39):
a sandwich, and it's attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says, he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted to say, to confirm that he
(12:02):
called his manager and not nine one one. They are
being clear why they want the phone, But they want
the phone. Kara Smith, journey Me forensics expert out of Florida.
Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone.
Speaker 9 (12:15):
Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
the best way now in the world of social media
and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
and Twitter and all those things, and text messages especially Listen,
if nothing happened, and I understand, you know, the privacy thing,
(12:36):
and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever that he
don't want released. But the police they're not going to
go into that. That's not their interests. Their interest is
looking at communications between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators,
if there was any, if there was any, the phone
call that he made to his manager, what time did
he make it, where did he make it from. All
(12:58):
of those questions have to be answered, and they have
to have the device. They can't just take somebody's word
for it. That's not how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,
felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(13:28):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says fine, you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(13:50):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
red flag to with your private communications, if you have
had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a rope
tied around your neck out on the street, you're handing
your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(14:14):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
Speaker 8 (14:17):
Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
out why he would call his manager. So the last
time I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was
not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police
any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,
whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we
may be, we are going to call the police if
(14:39):
something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem
with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
work right now. He's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You probably stand up all night, law thank you having
it coming up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
you know what, I'm going to just pass over with
that one. You know it's a big deal to me, Darryl.
And I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but
in my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor
(15:12):
because you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
You are always prepared. You need the law, you need
the facts. You knew it all when you went in
front of a jury. And in this case, when you
have a victim that does not cooperate with police, that
is a problem. I don't care who he is. I
don't care who he sleeps with. I could not care less.
(15:35):
I don't care. But if you don't cooperate with police,
then that is a problem with me. What's your problem.
Speaker 8 (15:45):
There's a problem with me as well. I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,
it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black, but you're homosexual?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Really and you well, because he's a famous thing TV star.
So here here's the thing. This is another wrinkle in this.
To ellenk Lauren crime online dot Com, hold on, I'm
going to write this down. Here's the thing. So, if
they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they were
(16:24):
targeting him and this was a hate crime, how did
they know to be outside the subway at to am
with bleach and rope or are they just hanging around
to get a sandwich and they happen to have bleach
and rope with them If they were targeting Jesse Smollette,
(16:45):
e kay, were they casing out his apartment? Why were
they there at two am? And I haven't even touched
on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work
out in his apartment building Jim that know him, that
have been extras on the set of Empire, or at
(17:08):
least one of them has that have been questioned and
released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to
do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to
get to the theory, Ellen Calaurin, So the perps were
what waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him? I mean,
what's the theory here? How did they know he was
(17:31):
going to be getting a sandwich at two am? If
he was the one targeted for a hate crime?
Speaker 6 (17:36):
Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
has an un Instagram account and he's a very active
social media user, and we learned over the weekend, that
he had been in New York during the previous days
and he was on he had slowed back to Chicago
that night, but his flight was the leaded and he
(17:58):
came in much later than ext and he posted a
couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Account talking about how.
Speaker 9 (18:07):
His flight was delayed.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
So if someone who had to have had a little
bit of information about what was going on with him
that day, if they wanted to track his movements, they
could to a certain degree through his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Okay, let me ask you this eka regarding Jesse Smilette.
Now that may make it make more sense that he
was out at two am. He was his flight so delayed,
he was just getting home from the airport at say
one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing
of that, because that makes although the Chicago airport is
(18:44):
full of food, but I don't know if it would
be open, the food stands would be opened that late
at night. So if he gets off a plane from
New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his
apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And
there is a theory out there that that is how
he communicated to set up the attack through posting, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
(19:09):
that these two brothers could actually see his movements by
looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So ek, do we
know what time he got in from his flight?
Speaker 6 (19:18):
I don't know exactly what time he landed or go
back to his apartment, but it does We don't have
a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, But
it does seem as though it's likely that he did
stop off at his apartment first.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But like you.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Said, he has been away the middle of the night.
He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the plate for longer
than accepted.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
The food Court put in the toon crime Stories with
Nancy Grace. Well, okay, remember another hoaxer, Anna Delvy aka
Anna Sorkin, who ripped off her friends to nearly one
hundred thousand dollars and then ended up on Dancing with
(20:03):
the Stars. She'd be dazzled her GPS ankle monitor and
then whined they Dancing with the Stars took advantage of her.
I mean, really, now, this Jesse Smolette, the infamous race hoaxer,
the former star of Empire. He brought that crashing down
(20:26):
is going to star on Special Forces World's Toughest Test
to air on Fox and Hulu. Have they lost their mind?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth. It's just the truth, because everybody has their
own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
(20:56):
young black children, to know how strong that they are,
to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
raw motions.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It's like, but you know, I'm a public figure.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who
I am, you know, So I get the idea of
pissing people off, that you're going to rub people the
wrong way.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
threatening language, at least with powdery substance, likely tailanol.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Do you think there's a link between the letter and
the attack. And you did mention it to the police
right away out of the letter.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick
figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,
with the words that said small at Jesse, you will
die black. There was no address. Put the return address
it in big red, you know, like caps, maga. Did
I make that up too?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
You are hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking
with Empire star Jesse Smillett. And right now we know
that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has
confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the
video that police believe committed the act the attack on
Jesse Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
(22:51):
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
Threatening letter?
Speaker 6 (23:00):
Yes, yes, one exactly one week before the night of
the alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio
where he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it
contained direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two
things about the letter that are coming up more recently
(23:22):
in the discussion around this case. One of those is
that some unidentified forces who have access to the set
and may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News
that he was unhappy about the response to the letter
and the threat that he got, that he felt that
there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he
(23:44):
was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up
this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.
The other thing that we're learning, and again these are
not official law enforcement statements, These are unidentified sources. You're
talking to New Thought lists. But we're learning that the
letter was made out of and you can see it
(24:06):
in the photos.
Speaker 9 (24:07):
The letter was written sort of like.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
A ransom type of letter with cutout letters from a magazine.
And we're hearing that when investigators went and raided the
apartment of these two brothers who have been identified as
possibly involved in this attack, they took away a magazine.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, Are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christie and erkil Pirot, Like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(24:45):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Smolette says, the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. Right, So the whole situation is fluid,
but I can tell you this. Remember the runaway bride
(25:06):
when she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut
grass and do community service out in the public. I
forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard
jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of
an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening
at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing
(25:29):
with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and
thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a
fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is
a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall
the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've
been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with
(25:53):
the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what they
didn't get enough attention? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Doctor Bethany, Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and
these crimes where we find out it's a hoax in
the end. And I don't know if this was a
hoax or not. But in forensic interviews, one of the
things we're trained to do with crime victims is to
find out if they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering
(26:19):
is when you make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate
medical symptoms for some external reward. It's that simple. Now,
in twenty percent of criminal cases, lingering is involved in
some way, twenty percent of PI cases, as you can imagine,
MA lingering, thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am,
(26:41):
the more I'm going to get some kind of reward
or attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,
like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm
not going to have to go to the military. So
what's so interesting to me about this story is the
exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated name, mature of his symptoms.
(27:01):
He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the
rope around his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,
he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that
he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,
anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light he
keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy
(27:23):
nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct
the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to
know clearly what happens. So, if I have a patient
and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I
want to bring a lawsuit, you know. I say, well,
what did your boss say?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very
fuzzy dka.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
So is it true, Eka ellencalorincrimal line dot Com investigative
reporter that small d had been in New York to
audition for a role in the play that is very
oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we know
about the play for which he was auditioning? He was
(28:12):
at a reading.
Speaker 9 (28:12):
Actually it was an audition.
Speaker 6 (28:14):
I believe he's already part of the cast, but that's
what he was doing in New York. He was flying
back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,
and he was in New York because he was doing
a reading of.
Speaker 9 (28:24):
The script of this play.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
And the character in the play is a person of color.
It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in
the cave in the case of the fictional character. But
he is someone who the character is someone who has
been the victim of hate crimes that, according to the
reports that we're reading, the have some similarities in the
(28:47):
crime that was allegedly committed against him, just that the
within hours of him arriving back to Chicago for.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
The same wordying the same slurs, awful slurs. If this
is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also
Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony
court that he Smolette did not call police. It was
a close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according
(29:15):
to the New York Times, and I think that was
his manager. He did not call police. And when Cox
got to his place, he still was wearing the rope
around his neck.
Speaker 8 (29:25):
Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
(29:47):
Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
attacked and this is terrible as a noose around his
neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy who
was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on television
(30:12):
or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not the same.
Some are, some are not. This guy is reading a script.
He saw a way to get even, perhaps, he saw
a way to make more money. Perhaps, but what he
didn't see is that he's not as bright as he
believes himself to be. So he's not shakes.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers
Ola and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.
Speaker 11 (30:41):
Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on
actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
Smolett pay the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
Smolette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,
so I punched it as back. I noticed the rope
around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
People that make false claims to police, much less to
this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
get different treatment. Jesse Smileett, superstar on the cast of
Empire to Ellenclaurencrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have
(31:29):
all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you
tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them
as Nigerian. They're American. That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they
for reasons that have not been explained and I do
not understand. Apparently, flew to Nigeria the day after the
attack and came back to Chicago last week, where they
were met with investigators at the airport that has not
been explained why that happened or if it has anything
(32:02):
to do at.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
All with the alleged assaults.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
And I also wanted to point something else out, since
we're talking about the.
Speaker 9 (32:10):
Rope and the phone.
Speaker 6 (32:13):
A lot of the things that have come up in
recent days really don't look look good like they look
very suspicious and and things are starting to really maybe
fall apart here in this story. But a couple of
things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I
don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to
hand over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure,
(32:35):
he's a celebrity.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You who had allen received before? Allan, have you ever
been attacked at two am, had a rope tied around
your neck and bleach port on you? Because if you have,
I'd like to have you about that, okay, because if
that happens to you and your life is in danger
and cops say we need your phone, you go here
whatever I mean. When the cop pulls me over, which
(32:57):
has happened, I like say, what ever here, take it all, okay,
just plays leave my children behind whatever. I don't want
a problem with a cop, Okay, nobody should be above
the law, and if they want your phone, give your phone.
But you know what, that's you and this is me,
(33:17):
So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree to hand over the full on
records about the rope. What we heard in the in
the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the
rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort
of disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers
to see what had been done. That was the explanation
(33:43):
for the rope of being a left.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
You know what, I hear you, And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(34:09):
but that they were heavily redacted crime stories with Nancy
Grace x his on fire one user says, yikes, someone
giving Jesse Smilette a platform after all, the let me
(34:32):
just say, crap he pulled is a little scary. Another
says I thought he was in jail. Well, you're right,
that's where he should be. Another says, on X, why
is Jesse Smilette not in jail? Another says, I see
Jesse Smillette still trying to reinvent himself, like we forgot
he staged a fake hate crime to become famous. Another
(34:56):
says this is bleak. Another says the return of Juicy Smollett.
Is he going to convince us he's a quote tough guy.
Another says he's going to pretend to get beat up
by Maga. Hey listen, I'm not a Democrat or a Republican,
but everybody's say everybody joining in on X is right.
(35:21):
Another gets real and says, Jesse Smolette is such a
gross and unnecessary casting choice. Why is everyone up in arms?
This is why? According to TMZ our friend Harvey Levin,
the phone records were handed over and the cops rejected them.
The cops rejected them, Darryl cod, are you sitting down?
(35:43):
The cops rejected them, saying that they were so heavily
redacted that they were basically of no use. What about
handing over your phone records to cop? If you redact them.
Speaker 8 (35:58):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime. First of all, I want
to go back to the net to the news. If
I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
(36:22):
but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
doesn't recognize the.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Truth from a lie.
Speaker 8 (36:31):
He is scripted and he's gotten himself into a problem.
He's a walking, living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
The whole reason they got interested in the phone records
to start with is that Smolette said to Comps he
was on the phone with his manager at the time
of the attack, and that the manager says he heard
the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they want
to authenticate that that call was in fact made. They
(36:59):
Asscelent for the records about two weeks before they got
a PDF file. Now, police also say their cameras everywhere
in the area, but there is a sixty second gap
in the video where you don't see the Empire start,
So there's no video of the actual attack. I've looked
at shots of the video and you see two persons
(37:20):
of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is what is
telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two guys that
everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very clear on that.
Who take off to Nigeria the day after the attack.
They work out in his building, at least one of
them does in the gym in Spolett's building, his apartment building.
(37:43):
One of them has been an extra on the set.
They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders. I've seen
their photos and I never see them wearing a shirt.
I mean not judging, but they are totally buff. So
you can see they work out all the time. They
take off for Nigeria the day after the attack, they
come back and they're met by the cops. They are questioned,
(38:03):
they are released Dtor Bethany no charges, and after meeting
with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.
What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria. They're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, I may have fought, no
big deal. We'll rough them up, We'll put a rope
around his neck, we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this
(38:36):
will have all blown over. But you know what, they
talk to the police, and as I was saying about malingering,
the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is
not consistent, and so the police are going to look
to Jesse. And I would wonder what is Jesse's reward
in all of this When people malinger symptoms. You know,
I was roughed up, I was a victim. They do
(38:58):
it for a reward. Is he trying to up his
Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract right now and
he wants to prove to the EP of the show
that he is the center of a national news situation.
Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in empire?
(39:20):
You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere,
And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,
according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid
(39:49):
the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.
This is CBS This Morning Anchor John Dickerson. Take a
listen to what they see on the video.
Speaker 12 (39:59):
Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say
a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
on the night.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Smollette says he was beaten.
Speaker 12 (40:12):
The star of the TV drama Empire said his masked
at attackers yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is
tracking the investigation.
Speaker 13 (40:22):
The investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images
to provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not
considered suspects, but the police do want to know who
they are and what they were doing when Smollett says
he was attacked.
Speaker 14 (40:37):
Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
then appear to get up and follow him, although the
three of them are never seen on camera together. About
a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smollette
(40:58):
returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.
The rope was untied but still on his neck when
police arrived, forty five minutes after.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
He says he was attacked.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
The truth about Jesse Smollette. I think I already know
the truth. Joining the infamous race hoaxer, stirring up racial
animosity like nobody else, Jesse Smlette set to star in
a reality show along with the Real Housewives of New
Jersey cast member Teresa Judice, whose own brush with the
(41:34):
law involved an eleven month prison sentence for fraud. Ooh,
she's going to compete along with her daughter Jia.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Okay, I guess some Smollett's in good company. Other contestants
for season four include Kristen Cavalieri's ex boyfriend Mark Estes.
I may I know who all these contestants are. But
I know who Jesse Smolette is. As fans respond, quote,
I thought he was in jail, Well he should be.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
I'm almost through with the pizza and I'm ready to
start on a large popcorn loaded with butter. Jesse Smolette
is going to be on TV.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Thanks Hulu. We wait as Justice Unfalds. Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Oh My Stars, does it
never end with this poser? This felon? Oh My Stars.
Jesse Smollett, remember him, the race hoaxer who claimed he
(00:27):
was attacked because he is black and gay and when
police arrived at his luxury apartment, he still had a
rope around his neck. It was all a lie. Oh
My Stars. He's getting rewarded. Special Forces, the World's Toughest
Test unveils its celebrity contestants competing in the fourth season
(00:53):
of the Quasi military training reality show. It's premiering on
Fox and Hulu, and fans are sick at the inclusion
of the hate crime hoaxer Jesse Smollette. Oh My Stars,
with Smollette wise cracking on Instagram. It was at this
(01:17):
moment I said I should have just done the masked singer. Well, okay,
Ike say quite often, I've seen it all, but now
I really have seen it all. I mean to see, Grace,
this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us. The disgraced race hoaxer swore he was
(01:40):
attacked by two MAGA supporters who actually turned out to
be his personal trainers. The Osendario brothers, they swear under oath.
He hired them to pour bleach on him and put
a noose around his neck to both for his celebrity
(02:01):
profile and get a raise. Remember, he was a star
of the hit series Empire that came crashing down after
he pulled off this stunt. Let me jog your recollection.
Listen to this.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
You know it's two o'clock in the morning. You're going
to subway. Suberia is open twenty four hours.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Like people kill me when they say things like that,
because it's like, the subway is open twenty four hours
for a reason, so that when you're hungry at night
and you ain't got no food, you go to subway
the camera and facing north.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
How is that my issue? It feels like.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
If I had said it was a Muslim or a
Mexican or someone black, I feel like the doubters would
have supported.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Me a lot much more, a lot more.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And that says a lot about the place that we
are in our country right now, the.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
That are trying to separate us, and it's just not okay.
It's just not okay. And for all of the people.
The next time that you see someone report something, maybe
well after the fact that it happened, and you say
(03:18):
to them, well, why are you waiting until now? Just
remember that mine was reported right away and look what
has happened.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
believe it started as two white males. It changed at
some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
(03:50):
the story started. That also has changed to am in
the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop. According
to Jesse Smolette, every one knows him, big star on Empire.
He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
(04:11):
his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,
they found him sitting there and roughed up and the
rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
(04:33):
the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
is he the one that's dividing people. And again, this
is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
(04:55):
on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
her now. Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta, Joiny,
joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and joining
(05:18):
me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.
Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm
hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the
wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go
back to sleep. All right, Usually I don't feel like
getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.
(05:40):
But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Go.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Well, it does appear that Jossi Smalltt had arrived to
the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
was a matter of him waking up in the middle
of that and going out to the freezing cold in
the subway. It was a very cold day though, and
he's he tells Polief that he's on his way home
with his subway sandwich.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is
in Chicago, correct, that's right?
Speaker 6 (06:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So how cold is it it?
Speaker 6 (06:12):
We were pretty sure it was below free temperatures. This
This was during a very very very.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Cold spell in Chicago.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
I don't know the exact.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Doctor, Bethnet. He must have been very hungry, very hungry.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
starts blowing.
Speaker 5 (06:37):
Forty to fifty degree below wind chill. I did my
undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at two.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
with just the temperature, but beginning. The beginning is he
wakes up, according to his story, at two am, and
(07:06):
instead of getting leftover, Pietz out of the fridge or
a whole chocolate cake, or whatever the matter may be.
He goes out in forty below to get a Subway sandwich.
See I start right there, That's where I start the story,
and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
I just think that's Craig cray.
Speaker 8 (07:27):
Well. I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
I did have a mini boycott for a week after
Jared was, you know, busted on child porn. I guess
it was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen,
I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Speaker 8 (07:51):
I don't think it has anything to do with it.
I think what has to do with it is did
it or did it not happen? And as far as
I can see from all of the evidence that's been
presented to me, this guy is looking for a more
publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to
get it.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
just go with the premise that it's true because the
official the official statement from Chicago PD is he is
being treated as a victim because he is a victim
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we
(08:34):
learn that Netflix is at it again, sturing their witches
cauldron with quote new evidence that the hate crime against
Jesse Smilett and his story quote might just be a
true story. As you will recall, soon after Smollette takes
(08:58):
to the airwaves describing how he was the victim of
a hate crime, Chicago PD released surveillance images of the
perpetrators and identify the two as also being black. They
are Nigerian American brothers. So we see the attackers performing
(09:20):
a quote hate crime on Smolette, who is black and
the purpose are black. Okay, just let that soak in
for a moment. To claim a hate crime and wrap
a rope around your neck as if you were threatened
with lynching. Nothing could be more incendiary in our American consciousness.
(09:48):
A horrible, horrible era that our country endured, all brought
to the forefront by Smolettes hoax. Then evidence came out
Smollet orchestrated his own attack and paid the brothers nearly
(10:09):
four thousand dollars. Idiot wrote a check. Yeah, idiot, wrote
a check for his hate crime attack. What more do
we know?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
When did you because as you said, it was an
acrid account of the timeline valuable information, When did you
make that information available to the police.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
We gave, we had to give the phone records, which
they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked
for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone
to the tech for three to four hours.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Why Because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,
my partner's number, family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers,
my private emails, my private songs, my private voice memos.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I don't know what that's going to be to hand
over my phone for.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And honestly, by then, inaccurate, false statements had already been
put out there.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the
Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims
that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
decided he was hungry, goes out to Subway sandwich, gets
(11:39):
a sandwich, and it's attacked by two guys that throw
acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
manages to get home and call police. He says, he
calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
is why they wanted to say, to confirm that he
(12:02):
called his manager and not nine one one. They are
being clear why they want the phone, But they want
the phone. Kara Smith, journey Me forensics expert out of Florida.
Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone.
Speaker 9 (12:15):
Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
the best way now in the world of social media
and texting is to get the phone of the victim.
You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook
and Twitter and all those things, and text messages especially Listen,
if nothing happened, and I understand, you know, the privacy thing,
(12:36):
and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever that he
don't want released. But the police they're not going to
go into that. That's not their interests. Their interest is
looking at communications between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators,
if there was any, if there was any, the phone
call that he made to his manager, what time did
he make it, where did he make it from. All
(12:58):
of those questions have to be answered, and they have
to have the device. They can't just take somebody's word
for it. That's not how life works anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,
felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
when I first started prosecuting, we did not have DNA,
we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
old school, okay, and we did it now with the
(13:28):
advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
anything else he's saying. But when he says fine, you
know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
at two am or goes out in sub zero that
(13:50):
below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
red flag to with your private communications, if you have
had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a rope
tied around your neck out on the street, you're handing
your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
(14:14):
I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
Speaker 8 (14:17):
Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
out why he would call his manager. So the last
time I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was
not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police
any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,
whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we
may be, we are going to call the police if
(14:39):
something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem
with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,
but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you
work right now. He's having a real problem.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You probably stand up all night, law thank you having
it coming up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
you know what, I'm going to just pass over with
that one. You know it's a big deal to me, Darryl.
And I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but
in my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor
(15:12):
because you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
You are always prepared. You need the law, you need
the facts. You knew it all when you went in
front of a jury. And in this case, when you
have a victim that does not cooperate with police, that
is a problem. I don't care who he is. I
don't care who he sleeps with. I could not care less.
(15:35):
I don't care. But if you don't cooperate with police,
then that is a problem with me. What's your problem.
Speaker 8 (15:45):
There's a problem with me as well. I've got another
problem with that. How in the world in the middle
of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,
it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
two people who know you're obviously black, but you're homosexual?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Really and you well, because he's a famous thing TV star.
So here here's the thing. This is another wrinkle in this.
To ellenk Lauren crime online dot Com, hold on, I'm
going to write this down. Here's the thing. So, if
they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they were
(16:24):
targeting him and this was a hate crime, how did
they know to be outside the subway at to am
with bleach and rope or are they just hanging around
to get a sandwich and they happen to have bleach
and rope with them If they were targeting Jesse Smollette,
(16:45):
e kay, were they casing out his apartment? Why were
they there at two am? And I haven't even touched
on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work
out in his apartment building Jim that know him, that
have been extras on the set of Empire, or at
(17:08):
least one of them has that have been questioned and
released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to
do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to
get to the theory, Ellen Calaurin, So the perps were
what waiting outside the subway sandwich shop for him? I mean,
what's the theory here? How did they know he was
(17:31):
going to be getting a sandwich at two am? If
he was the one targeted for a hate crime?
Speaker 6 (17:36):
Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
has an un Instagram account and he's a very active
social media user, and we learned over the weekend, that
he had been in New York during the previous days
and he was on he had slowed back to Chicago
that night, but his flight was the leaded and he
(17:58):
came in much later than ext and he posted a
couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Account talking about how.
Speaker 9 (18:07):
His flight was delayed.
Speaker 6 (18:08):
So if someone who had to have had a little
bit of information about what was going on with him
that day, if they wanted to track his movements, they
could to a certain degree through his social media activity.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Okay, let me ask you this eka regarding Jesse Smilette.
Now that may make it make more sense that he
was out at two am. He was his flight so delayed,
he was just getting home from the airport at say
one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing
of that, because that makes although the Chicago airport is
(18:44):
full of food, but I don't know if it would
be open, the food stands would be opened that late
at night. So if he gets off a plane from
New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his
apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And
there is a theory out there that that is how
he communicated to set up the attack through posting, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,
(19:09):
that these two brothers could actually see his movements by
looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So ek, do we
know what time he got in from his flight?
Speaker 6 (19:18):
I don't know exactly what time he landed or go
back to his apartment, but it does We don't have
a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, But
it does seem as though it's likely that he did
stop off at his apartment first.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But like you.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Said, he has been away the middle of the night.
He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the plate for longer
than accepted.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
The food Court put in the toon crime Stories with
Nancy Grace. Well, okay, remember another hoaxer, Anna Delvy aka
Anna Sorkin, who ripped off her friends to nearly one
hundred thousand dollars and then ended up on Dancing with
(20:03):
the Stars. She'd be dazzled her GPS ankle monitor and
then whined they Dancing with the Stars took advantage of her.
I mean, really, now, this Jesse Smolette, the infamous race hoaxer,
the former star of Empire. He brought that crashing down
(20:26):
is going to star on Special Forces World's Toughest Test
to air on Fox and Hulu. Have they lost their mind?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I think that what people need to hear is just
the truth. It's just the truth, because everybody has their
own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But
I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,
(20:56):
young black children, to know how strong that they are,
to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.
Speaker 10 (21:05):
It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
raw motions.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
and dms and things like that.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It's like, but you know, I'm a public figure.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken, but it's who
I am, you know, So I get the idea of
pissing people off, that you're going to rub people the
wrong way.
Speaker 10 (21:45):
In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with
threatening language, at least with powdery substance, likely tailanol.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Do you think there's a link between the letter and
the attack. And you did mention it to the police
right away out of the letter.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick
figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,
with the words that said small at Jesse, you will
die black. There was no address. Put the return address
it in big red, you know, like caps, maga. Did
I make that up too?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
You are hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking
with Empire star Jesse Smillett. And right now we know
that the police investigation is going on. Police chief has
confirmed the two guys that allegedly are identified in the
video that police believe committed the act the attack on
Jesse Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
(22:51):
What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
Threatening letter?
Speaker 6 (23:00):
Yes, yes, one exactly one week before the night of
the alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio
where he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it
contained direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two
things about the letter that are coming up more recently
(23:22):
in the discussion around this case. One of those is
that some unidentified forces who have access to the set
and may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News
that he was unhappy about the response to the letter
and the threat that he got, that he felt that
there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he
(23:44):
was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up
this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.
The other thing that we're learning, and again these are
not official law enforcement statements, These are unidentified sources. You're
talking to New Thought lists. But we're learning that the
letter was made out of and you can see it
(24:06):
in the photos.
Speaker 9 (24:07):
The letter was written sort of like.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
A ransom type of letter with cutout letters from a magazine.
And we're hearing that when investigators went and raided the
apartment of these two brothers who have been identified as
possibly involved in this attack, they took away a magazine.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, Are
these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
Christie and erkil Pirot, Like in the movies where you
cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
(24:45):
And also we are learning for sure that in a
follow up visit by investigators, Smolette says, the attackers mentioned
something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
the Trump campaign. Right, So the whole situation is fluid,
but I can tell you this. Remember the runaway bride
(25:06):
when she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut
grass and do community service out in the public. I
forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard
jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of
an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening
at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing
(25:29):
with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and
thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a
fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is
a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall
the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've
been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with
(25:53):
the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what they
didn't get enough attention? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 5 (25:58):
Doctor Bethany, Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and
these crimes where we find out it's a hoax in
the end. And I don't know if this was a
hoax or not. But in forensic interviews, one of the
things we're trained to do with crime victims is to
find out if they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering
(26:19):
is when you make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate
medical symptoms for some external reward. It's that simple. Now,
in twenty percent of criminal cases, lingering is involved in
some way, twenty percent of PI cases, as you can imagine,
MA lingering, thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am,
(26:41):
the more I'm going to get some kind of reward
or attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,
like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm
not going to have to go to the military. So
what's so interesting to me about this story is the
exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated name, mature of his symptoms.
(27:01):
He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the
rope around his neck. Wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,
he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that
he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,
anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light he
keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy
(27:23):
nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct
the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to
know clearly what happens. So, if I have a patient
and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I
want to bring a lawsuit, you know. I say, well,
what did your boss say?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very
fuzzy dka.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
So is it true, Eka ellencalorincrimal line dot Com investigative
reporter that small d had been in New York to
audition for a role in the play that is very
oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we know
about the play for which he was auditioning? He was
(28:12):
at a reading.
Speaker 9 (28:12):
Actually it was an audition.
Speaker 6 (28:14):
I believe he's already part of the cast, but that's
what he was doing in New York. He was flying
back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,
and he was in New York because he was doing
a reading of.
Speaker 9 (28:24):
The script of this play.
Speaker 6 (28:26):
And the character in the play is a person of color.
It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in
the cave in the case of the fictional character. But
he is someone who the character is someone who has
been the victim of hate crimes that, according to the
reports that we're reading, the have some similarities in the
(28:47):
crime that was allegedly committed against him, just that the
within hours of him arriving back to Chicago for.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
The same wordying the same slurs, awful slurs. If this
is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also
Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony
court that he Smolette did not call police. It was
a close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according
(29:15):
to the New York Times, and I think that was
his manager. He did not call police. And when Cox
got to his place, he still was wearing the rope
around his neck.
Speaker 8 (29:25):
Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
(29:47):
Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
attacked and this is terrible as a noose around his
neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy who
was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on television
(30:12):
or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not the same.
Some are, some are not. This guy is reading a script.
He saw a way to get even, perhaps, he saw
a way to make more money. Perhaps, but what he
didn't see is that he's not as bright as he
believes himself to be. So he's not shakes.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers
Ola and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.
Speaker 11 (30:41):
Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on
actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
Smolett pay the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.
Smolette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,
so I punched it as back. I noticed the rope
around my neck and I started screaming.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
People that make false claims to police, much less to
this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
get different treatment. Jesse Smileett, superstar on the cast of
Empire to Ellenclaurencrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have
(31:29):
all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you
tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them
as Nigerian. They're American. That's right, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they
for reasons that have not been explained and I do
not understand. Apparently, flew to Nigeria the day after the
attack and came back to Chicago last week, where they
were met with investigators at the airport that has not
been explained why that happened or if it has anything
(32:02):
to do at.
Speaker 9 (32:02):
All with the alleged assaults.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
And I also wanted to point something else out, since
we're talking about the.
Speaker 9 (32:10):
Rope and the phone.
Speaker 6 (32:13):
A lot of the things that have come up in
recent days really don't look look good like they look
very suspicious and and things are starting to really maybe
fall apart here in this story. But a couple of
things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I
don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to
hand over his entire phone immediately. He's a public figure,
(32:35):
he's a celebrity.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You who had allen received before? Allan, have you ever
been attacked at two am, had a rope tied around
your neck and bleach port on you? Because if you have,
I'd like to have you about that, okay, because if
that happens to you and your life is in danger
and cops say we need your phone, you go here
whatever I mean. When the cop pulls me over, which
(32:57):
has happened, I like say, what ever here, take it all, okay,
just plays leave my children behind whatever. I don't want
a problem with a cop, Okay, nobody should be above
the law, and if they want your phone, give your phone.
But you know what, that's you and this is me,
(33:17):
So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
But what I wanted to also say is that I
believe he did agree to hand over the full on
records about the rope. What we heard in the in
the beginning of this narrative was that he kept the
rope around his neck because he didn't want to sort
of disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers
to see what had been done. That was the explanation
(33:43):
for the rope of being a left.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
You know what, I hear you, And he could have
claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin
any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.
Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
(34:09):
but that they were heavily redacted crime stories with Nancy
Grace x his on fire one user says, yikes, someone
giving Jesse Smilette a platform after all, the let me
(34:32):
just say, crap he pulled is a little scary. Another
says I thought he was in jail. Well, you're right,
that's where he should be. Another says, on X, why
is Jesse Smilette not in jail? Another says, I see
Jesse Smillette still trying to reinvent himself, like we forgot
he staged a fake hate crime to become famous. Another
(34:56):
says this is bleak. Another says the return of Juicy Smollett.
Is he going to convince us he's a quote tough guy.
Another says he's going to pretend to get beat up
by Maga. Hey listen, I'm not a Democrat or a Republican,
but everybody's say everybody joining in on X is right.
(35:21):
Another gets real and says, Jesse Smolette is such a
gross and unnecessary casting choice. Why is everyone up in arms?
This is why? According to TMZ our friend Harvey Levin,
the phone records were handed over and the cops rejected them.
The cops rejected them, Darryl cod, are you sitting down?
(35:43):
The cops rejected them, saying that they were so heavily
redacted that they were basically of no use. What about
handing over your phone records to cop? If you redact them.
Speaker 8 (35:58):
Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
a victim of a crime. First of all, I want
to go back to the net to the news. If
I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
(36:22):
but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
doesn't recognize the.
Speaker 5 (36:29):
Truth from a lie.
Speaker 8 (36:31):
He is scripted and he's gotten himself into a problem.
He's a walking, living soap opera.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
The whole reason they got interested in the phone records
to start with is that Smolette said to Comps he
was on the phone with his manager at the time
of the attack, and that the manager says he heard
the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they want
to authenticate that that call was in fact made. They
(36:59):
Asscelent for the records about two weeks before they got
a PDF file. Now, police also say their cameras everywhere
in the area, but there is a sixty second gap
in the video where you don't see the Empire start,
So there's no video of the actual attack. I've looked
at shots of the video and you see two persons
(37:20):
of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is what is
telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two guys that
everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very clear on that.
Who take off to Nigeria the day after the attack.
They work out in his building, at least one of
them does in the gym in Spolett's building, his apartment building.
(37:43):
One of them has been an extra on the set.
They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders. I've seen
their photos and I never see them wearing a shirt.
I mean not judging, but they are totally buff. So
you can see they work out all the time. They
take off for Nigeria the day after the attack, they
come back and they're met by the cops. They are questioned,
(38:03):
they are released Dtor Bethany no charges, and after meeting
with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.
What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria. They're now
thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
for the attack, right, And some people do not think
ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
a crime. So they thought, I may have fought, no
big deal. We'll rough them up, We'll put a rope
around his neck, we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this
(38:36):
will have all blown over. But you know what, they
talk to the police, and as I was saying about malingering,
the whole story does not shake out. The timeline is
not consistent, and so the police are going to look
to Jesse. And I would wonder what is Jesse's reward
in all of this When people malinger symptoms. You know,
I was roughed up, I was a victim. They do
(38:58):
it for a reward. Is he trying to up his
Twitter following? Is he negotiating a contract right now and
he wants to prove to the EP of the show
that he is the center of a national news situation.
Is he wanting to take somebody else's role in empire?
(39:20):
You know, I think that there's a reward there somewhere,
And if you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,
according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid
(39:49):
the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.
This is CBS This Morning Anchor John Dickerson. Take a
listen to what they see on the video.
Speaker 12 (39:59):
Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollett. Police say
a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
on the night.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
Smollette says he was beaten.
Speaker 12 (40:12):
The star of the TV drama Empire said his masked
at attackers yelled racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is
tracking the investigation.
Speaker 13 (40:22):
The investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images
to provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not
considered suspects, but the police do want to know who
they are and what they were doing when Smollett says
he was attacked.
Speaker 14 (40:37):
Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
then appear to get up and follow him, although the
three of them are never seen on camera together. About
a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smollette
(40:58):
returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.
The rope was untied but still on his neck when
police arrived, forty five minutes after.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
He says he was attacked.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
The truth about Jesse Smollette. I think I already know
the truth. Joining the infamous race hoaxer, stirring up racial
animosity like nobody else, Jesse Smlette set to star in
a reality show along with the Real Housewives of New
Jersey cast member Teresa Judice, whose own brush with the
(41:34):
law involved an eleven month prison sentence for fraud. Ooh,
she's going to compete along with her daughter Jia.
Speaker 6 (41:44):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Okay, I guess some Smollett's in good company. Other contestants
for season four include Kristen Cavalieri's ex boyfriend Mark Estes.
I may I know who all these contestants are. But
I know who Jesse Smolette is. As fans respond, quote,
I thought he was in jail, Well he should be.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
I'm almost through with the pizza and I'm ready to
start on a large popcorn loaded with butter. Jesse Smolette
is going to be on TV.
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Thanks Hulu. We wait as Justice Unfalds. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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